it is a very good justification of what is really involved in a regulator full service sure you can add parts that are not included in a standard service kits as second stage diaphragms, hoses, couplers check valves etc... having your regulator serviced by a competent and attentionned technician is priceless.( I always fear botched work when somebody plays in my diving equipment , it is the reason why I prefer service my equipments myself ) very good topic very good video
Just purchased my set used and the shop quoted me $140-$145 but wound up charging me $125. 👍🏻 first stage, second stage and safe second. Pleasantly surprised 😃
Awesome video, thanks for the breakdown and explanation. Very timely too, I’ll be taking my regs in for service soon, and my LDS estimated $200-250 sight unseen.
Hi Alec, I've actually seen a company here in OZ offer a 'Free Parts for Life" program where if you have your gear inspected by one of their service centers the parts are free. the only down side is that they are generally inspected every 6 months and you pay the 'inspection fee'. On a separate note, my Sea Hornet Piston 1st stage and US Divers SE2 (35 years old) second stage are easily serviced and still work a charm. I do however spend a lot of time making sure they are kept clean and free of dirt / sand / debris and they get a good long soak and rinse after every dive.
I did a video on the subject of parts for life, search for it to see the points you make are there also. Glad to know your SE2 is still diving. I still have my first double hose reg but its display only after 60 years. A
I think there is no question that paying a trained staff to service regs and do it right is worth the money. Where I have issue is paying $50 or more for a $5 service kit. I know the LDS has to pay a bit for it from the manufacturer but it is not right and plays on our fears. The scuba pro o rings are likely made in the same place as other manufacturers and are not made of gold.
O-rings never stop being a source of wild discussion (like fins and beer). I can hold up 2 o-rings that look the same but are not identical. Using wrong sized o-rings can be a dangerous so for my peace of mind, an OEM kit makes me happy. Hope you agree. A
My Apeks regulators cost 40€ per second stage and 40€ per first stage. The service kits alone cost around 20€. That usually makes a total of 200€ for a twinset and a stage.
I keep having to watch Sea Hunt Remembered RERUNS! Any new shows in the works? Any plans for Silver Springs this March? A couple of hundred bucks to get my regulator renewed isn't so bad, you should see the price of just the parts to do the same thing for my body.... Tanks guys.
There is talk in the vintage community about returning to Silver Springs, but not 2024. It takes a year to get it setup and run so the earliest would be 2025. I'm also getting new cyborg parts so hang in there. Thanks for watching. Much appreciate hearing from viewers. A
I have an old Mares which costs under $100, and an Apeks that is closer to $200. One is a dead simple design and the other is complicated. And yes; I think they are both fair prices. We need to keep our service folks in business.
I would say that 180$ is pretty fair. For 2xfirst stage and 2xsecond stage I probably use about 4 hours for service including cleaning, lubrication and adjustment. However I'm not trained, so the guarantee is on me. Its always good fun though, but only if you really like mechanics.
I read many comments about how expensive service is, however, in all my decades in the scuba business, I have never heard of a "millionaire" service tech. Unless he stared with 2 million! A
Im my country its not the price that's the problem. Its the waiting time. Here the authorized service center will take you 3 weeks to a month. So now most, if not all, dive pros service their own regs.
That is a problem in many countries (few service pros), and some large tourist centres. Servicing is done by many but the after service testing is generally lacking. You don't get to call the service tech at 100' when breathing gets hard! A
Alec, what is your opinion on the difference between manufacturers who give you parts for life when you buy a regulator set, and the manufacturers who make you buy a exorbitant amount of company products to get parts for life. It seems like a ethically wrong business direction, although I bet they make alot more money.
Regardless of the product, scuba gear, automobiles or groceries, marketing is always present and, enticing. It's supposed to be!! Any savvy consumer should look closely at the cost of EVERYTHING being offered. In the case of scuba gear, there have been a few manufacturers who have tried the FREE PARTS FOR LIFE ploy. Few have succeeded. In most cases, that plan is abandoned after a while usually because of unexpected cost, consumer complaints or poor response. However, as a scuba dealer for a VERY long time AND ALSO as a consumer, I would be attracted to free parts for life. But, considering that the cost of the parts to service a regulator is not really very high AND a diver may only service his gear once a year (or even less), the benefit of free parts is really quite minimal. Don't be fooled into paying more than necessary just to get free parts. And check carefully for restrictions on the free parts offer. There are bound to be some. As to the manufacturers who offer free parts only when a diver is buying a complete package, that requires even more scrutiny. The total package cost (usually a regulator, safe second, computer & BCD) is bound to be quite high, perhaps several thousand dollars. Keeping in mind that manufacturers exist for only one reason, to make money, one must decide if the contents of the package are in fact, items that he needs. If one buys something that he does NOT need just get the free parts, it will likely prove to be a mistake.
You're playing Russian Roulette by allowing a Dealer to service your gear!!! I had my 1st & 2nd stage, plus OctoZ, serviced by a local dealer last month. I paid $190 for servicing. When I got it back and suited up, the 2nd stage fell off (it actually separated from the hose and fell to the ground). Now I'm sending it in to Oceanic for proper (and safe) servicing. From now on, I will ONLY trust the manufacturer to service my gear.
I would recommend taking it back to the store with your complains to see what they are willing to do for you. May be a one time problem but if the owner is honest and sees how bad the work was, others are likely affected too and he needs to fix it fast. A
Thank you for the kind response. Would you please tell me whether I would have received a lung full of water or just suffered an out-of-air response from my regulator if my 2nd stage separated from the supply hose at depth? Oh, in answer to your note, above, I have reached out to the dive shop twice with no response. It's not a traditional walk-in store, so email and phone are my only options for contact. (Another lesson learned for me, I guess).
The price of the kits are ridiculous. The cost to manufacture the service kit parts is nowhere near the price the kits are sold. Even with a reasonable margin of profit, it should not cost as much as the price its sold. My conclusion, manufacturers make an exorbitantly huge sum of profit from the service kits by unreasonably marking the price up. Which I think is stupid as it results in a lot more divers putting off servicing their regulators and puts off divers from buying regulators - itll be cheaper to just rent them (for people that do less than 50 dives a year). Heck some may even end up servicing their own regs without proper qualification. I have less issues with paying the technician as its their time and skill - which I feel is worth the money.
I have old man issues with lots of pricing for items from OEM parts to pool supplies. Shopping around for the best deal saves me some dollars but for items a store can't change, like scuba kits, we made up for in superior service. As for un-trained self service of regs, that is putting your life, maybe your buddy, in danger. At 100' when a free flow starts, I'm not thinking of the few bucks i saved!! Good points sir. A
Hello Alec, thanks for taking the time to brake it down. Still think the idea that manufacturers wont sell parts to divers because of liabilities is nonsense. The same logic could be applied to an auto manufacturer selling parts to a customer, if the customer installed the wrong part or did it wrong they would have a hard time in court against the manufacturer. I get that service centers have to be profitable but still i think service prices exceding 50% the cost of an entry level reg set is insane.
The dive business has been hit hard by the pandemic and several shops have closed which puts more gear into fewer shops. You may have to shop around to find a better price but will quality be the same? A lower price is great but only if the quality is the same. I don't want a discount heart surgeon!! A
Manufacturer doesn't have to sell parts to customer, they sell it to dive shop. When I wanted to add fifth port to apeks DST first stage I was looking online and could not find it on web shop of my dive store, I just called them and asked for firth port, they said "yes ofc we have that, we will send it to you" for service kit I think its same thing, ofc it helps if you know owner of dive store if you are getting service parts, or if you are public safety diver or instructor, they will feal more comfortable selling then
So if you have a $1000 regulator and you have to pay $150 every year to have it serviced that's not too bad percentage wise. On the other hand if you have a $300 regulator and you have to pay $150 to have it serviced every year why don't I just throw it away and buy a brand new one every two service intervals? I guess its a matter of perspective. Some Prefessionals (in every job) are very good at what they do, conciencious, and knowledgeable, however there are also "professionals" who are on the job for a limited amount of time, and are inexperienced, or just don't care, so it's really a crapshoot as to who you are going to get. If I take my things to be serviced I want to trust the person doing the work rather than just making myself feel good that I used a "Professional" shop that I blindly trusted with my life support equipment. It's probably a good idea to really get to know the staff at your LDS to help you make the decision as to who you can trust.
And up next year, and the next, sad to say we all get hit by inflation, shipping problems, etc. If I'm doing this in 15 years (ha ha), I can do a Vintage Scuba on how cheap service was in 2024!! What a laugh that would be. A
it is a very good justification of what is really involved in a regulator full service
sure you can add parts that are not included in a standard service kits as second stage diaphragms, hoses, couplers check valves etc...
having your regulator serviced by a competent and attentionned technician is priceless.( I always fear botched work when somebody plays in my diving equipment , it is the reason why I prefer service my equipments myself )
very good topic
very good video
Thanks very much Jacques. Well said.
A
Just purchased my set used and the shop quoted me $140-$145 but wound up charging me $125. 👍🏻 first stage, second stage and safe second. Pleasantly surprised 😃
Good deal and you're happy so the owner hopes you will return. Well done.
A
Awesome video, thanks for the breakdown and explanation. Very timely too, I’ll be taking my regs in for service soon, and my LDS estimated $200-250 sight unseen.
Well now you know what to expect and how to handle any problems after service. Safe diving.
A
I paid £88 for my last service. Scubapro MK25, G260 and R195. Worth it for life support. My next one due now.
Glad to know you're getting good value and do it regularly. Dive safe.
A
Hi Alec, I've actually seen a company here in OZ offer a 'Free Parts for Life" program where if you have your gear inspected by one of their service centers the parts are free. the only down side is that they are generally inspected every 6 months and you pay the 'inspection fee'. On a separate note, my Sea Hornet Piston 1st stage and US Divers SE2 (35 years old) second stage are easily serviced and still work a charm. I do however spend a lot of time making sure they are kept clean and free of dirt / sand / debris and they get a good long soak and rinse after every dive.
I did a video on the subject of parts for life, search for it to see the points you make are there also. Glad to know your SE2 is still diving. I still have my first double hose reg but its display only after 60 years.
A
I think there is no question that paying a trained staff to service regs and do it right is worth the money. Where I have issue is paying $50 or more for a $5 service kit. I know the LDS has to pay a bit for it from the manufacturer but it is not right and plays on our fears. The scuba pro o rings are likely made in the same place as other manufacturers and are not made of gold.
O-rings never stop being a source of wild discussion (like fins and beer). I can hold up 2 o-rings that look the same but are not identical. Using wrong sized o-rings can be a dangerous so for my peace of mind, an OEM kit makes me happy. Hope you agree.
A
If you are chasing the cheapest price in scuba (in every extreme sport for a fact) , it will end badly for you sooner or later
I learned a loooong time ago that my life is worth more than the cheapest bidder.
A
My Apeks regulators cost 40€ per second stage and 40€ per first stage. The service kits alone cost around 20€. That usually makes a total of 200€ for a twinset and a stage.
Thanks for sharing. Hope others will share their costs and country.
A
I keep having to watch Sea Hunt Remembered RERUNS! Any new shows in the works?
Any plans for Silver Springs this March?
A couple of hundred bucks to get my regulator renewed isn't so bad, you should see the price of just the parts to do the same thing for my body....
Tanks guys.
There is talk in the vintage community about returning to Silver Springs, but not 2024. It takes a year to get it setup and run so the earliest would be 2025. I'm also getting new cyborg parts so hang in there. Thanks for watching. Much appreciate hearing from viewers.
A
I have an old Mares which costs under $100, and an Apeks that is closer to $200. One is a dead simple design and the other is complicated. And yes; I think they are both fair prices. We need to keep our service folks in business.
Rare to find something cheaper over here in the Uk than the states! Most regs cost just over £100 to service over here.
I'm actually in Canada.
My point is that the costs are reasonable for the parts, time and tools to do it right. Glad you found a reasonable LDS.
A
I would say that 180$ is pretty fair. For 2xfirst stage and 2xsecond stage I probably use about 4 hours for service including cleaning, lubrication and adjustment. However I'm not trained, so the guarantee is on me. Its always good fun though, but only if you really like mechanics.
I read many comments about how expensive service is, however, in all my decades in the scuba business, I have never heard of a "millionaire" service tech. Unless he stared with 2 million!
A
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Yeah, its not something you go in for the money. But for the love of diving! 😁
Im my country its not the price that's the problem. Its the waiting time. Here the authorized service center will take you 3 weeks to a month. So now most, if not all, dive pros service their own regs.
That is a problem in many countries (few service pros), and some large tourist centres. Servicing is done by many but the after service testing is generally lacking. You don't get to call the service tech at 100' when breathing gets hard!
A
Alec, what is your opinion on the difference between manufacturers who give you parts for life when you buy a regulator set, and the manufacturers who make you buy a exorbitant amount of company products to get parts for life. It seems like a ethically wrong business direction, although I bet they make alot more money.
Regardless of the product, scuba gear, automobiles or groceries, marketing is always present and, enticing. It's supposed to be!!
Any savvy consumer should look closely at the cost of EVERYTHING being offered.
In the case of scuba gear, there have been a few manufacturers who have tried the FREE PARTS FOR LIFE ploy. Few have succeeded. In most cases, that plan is abandoned after a while usually because of unexpected cost, consumer complaints or poor response.
However, as a scuba dealer for a VERY long time AND ALSO as a consumer, I would be attracted to free parts for life.
But, considering that the cost of the parts to service a regulator is not really very high AND a diver may only service his gear once a year (or even less), the benefit of free parts is really quite minimal. Don't be fooled into paying more than necessary just to get free parts. And check carefully for restrictions on the free parts offer. There are bound to be some.
As to the manufacturers who offer free parts only when a diver is buying a complete package, that requires even more scrutiny. The total package cost (usually a regulator, safe second, computer & BCD) is bound to be quite high, perhaps several thousand dollars.
Keeping in mind that manufacturers exist for only one reason, to make money, one must decide if the contents of the package are in fact, items that he needs. If one buys something that he does NOT need just get the free parts, it will likely prove to be a mistake.
i service our own regulator. service kits, gas, lubricants, cleaning solution, tools and instruments? cost is not far from having it done in a shop.
Good to know someone who is able to do their own.
A
You're playing Russian Roulette by allowing a Dealer to service your gear!!! I had my 1st & 2nd stage, plus OctoZ, serviced by a local dealer last month. I paid $190 for servicing. When I got it back and suited up, the 2nd stage fell off (it actually separated from the hose and fell to the ground). Now I'm sending it in to Oceanic for proper (and safe) servicing. From now on, I will ONLY trust the manufacturer to service my gear.
I would recommend taking it back to the store with your complains to see what they are willing to do for you. May be a one time problem but if the owner is honest and sees how bad the work was, others are likely affected too and he needs to fix it fast.
A
Thank you for the kind response. Would you please tell me whether I would have received a lung full of water or just suffered an out-of-air response from my regulator if my 2nd stage separated from the supply hose at depth?
Oh, in answer to your note, above, I have reached out to the dive shop twice with no response. It's not a traditional walk-in store, so email and phone are my only options for contact. (Another lesson learned for me, I guess).
It cost me $70 a year ago for a Mares reg in Miami.
Not bad if its for the 1st and 2nd stage.
A
$125 for service kits? For scuba service centers?
Prices can vary a lot around the country depending on supplier and shipping. Sadly prices on everything have risen recently.
A
The price of the kits are ridiculous. The cost to manufacture the service kit parts is nowhere near the price the kits are sold. Even with a reasonable margin of profit, it should not cost as much as the price its sold. My conclusion, manufacturers make an exorbitantly huge sum of profit from the service kits by unreasonably marking the price up. Which I think is stupid as it results in a lot more divers putting off servicing their regulators and puts off divers from buying regulators - itll be cheaper to just rent them (for people that do less than 50 dives a year). Heck some may even end up servicing their own regs without proper qualification.
I have less issues with paying the technician as its their time and skill - which I feel is worth the money.
I have old man issues with lots of pricing for items from OEM parts to pool supplies. Shopping around for the best deal saves me some dollars but for items a store can't change, like scuba kits, we made up for in superior service. As for un-trained self service of regs, that is putting your life, maybe your buddy, in danger. At 100' when a free flow starts, I'm not thinking of the few bucks i saved!! Good points sir.
A
Hello Alec, thanks for taking the time to brake it down. Still think the idea that manufacturers wont sell parts to divers because of liabilities is nonsense. The same logic could be applied to an auto manufacturer selling parts to a customer, if the customer installed the wrong part or did it wrong they would have a hard time in court against the manufacturer. I get that service centers have to be profitable but still i think service prices exceding 50% the cost of an entry level reg set is insane.
The dive business has been hit hard by the pandemic and several shops have closed which puts more gear into fewer shops. You may have to shop around to find a better price but will quality be the same? A lower price is great but only if the quality is the same. I don't want a discount heart surgeon!!
A
Manufacturer doesn't have to sell parts to customer, they sell it to dive shop. When I wanted to add fifth port to apeks DST first stage I was looking online and could not find it on web shop of my dive store, I just called them and asked for firth port, they said "yes ofc we have that, we will send it to you" for service kit I think its same thing, ofc it helps if you know owner of dive store if you are getting service parts, or if you are public safety diver or instructor, they will feal more comfortable selling then
So if you have a $1000 regulator and you have to pay $150 every year to have it serviced that's not too bad percentage wise. On the other hand if you have a $300 regulator and you have to pay $150 to have it serviced every year why don't I just throw it away and buy a brand new one every two service intervals? I guess its a matter of perspective. Some Prefessionals (in every job) are very good at what they do, conciencious, and knowledgeable, however there are also "professionals" who are on the job for a limited amount of time, and are inexperienced, or just don't care, so it's really a crapshoot as to who you are going to get. If I take my things to be serviced I want to trust the person doing the work rather than just making myself feel good that I used a "Professional" shop that I blindly trusted with my life support equipment. It's probably a good idea to really get to know the staff at your LDS to help you make the decision as to who you can trust.
Good points. That is why i'm going the mini-series of LDS Pro videos for stores, staff and customers to know more about the business of scuba.
A
£100 in the U.K. and most likely it’s gone up again this season 🇬🇧
And up next year, and the next, sad to say we all get hit by inflation, shipping problems, etc. If I'm doing this in 15 years (ha ha), I can do a Vintage Scuba on how cheap service was in 2024!! What a laugh that would be.
A
I don't know why people would even question it. Those components are literally keeping you breathing on a dive. If the cost is a problem, don't dive.
Some folks complain about almost anything. Keeping me breathing happy at 100' is worth every cent.
A
No more vintage scuba ?
More will come. Kevin and I have to get together next month to shoot our last set to cover winter. Vintage will not stop, it's Kevin's favourite.
A
👍😎🤿! Glad I service my own regulators!
Not many divers are prepared to self-service their own gear. Good for you.
A