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Alienation
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- Опубліковано 14 сер 2024
- Episode 29. Alienation
Do you fear the Sunday Scaries and Thank God It's Friday? You might be suffering from a case of what Karl Marx called "alienation." In this episode of Overthink, David and Ellie break down this key but often misunderstood concept for the modern workplace. After explaining Marx's four forms of alienation using the example of making Teva sandals, they discuss the gig economy and "bullshit jobs." Plus: in today's society, are even poets and Netflix viewers alienated? Or does Marx's concept only apply to an outdated model of industrial work under capitalism?
Overthink is a philosophy podcast hosted by your favorite new professors, Ellie Anderson (Pomona College) and David Peña-Guzmán (San Francisco State University). Check out our episodes for deep dives into concepts such as existential anxiety, empathy, and gaslighting.
Works discussed:
Karl Marx, Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844
Rahel Jaeggi, Alienation
David Graeber, Bullshit Jobs
Byung-Chul Han, In the swarm: Digital prospects
Herbert Marcuse, One Dimensional Man
Guy Debord, Society of the Spectacle
Emmanuel Renault, From Fordism to Post-Fordism: Beyond or Back to Alienation
Louis Althusser, Reading Capital
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I thought that ending in particular was lovely. You don't have to be a puritanical Protestant capitalist to believe that diligence is a virtue, and I don't think it's an accident that the best people I know (in a moral sense) tend to be the hardest working. Work is a good thing, it's just that the forms it takes under neoliberal capitalism make it a brutal, miserable experience for most of us.
There's a poem by Giacomo Leopardi that says:
"[...]quello di sette è il più gradito giorno / pieno di speme e di gioia / diman tristezza e noia recheran l'ore / e al travaglio usato / ciascun in suo pensier farà ritorno.[...]"
It can be translated with something like: "that one, out of seven is the favorite day, full of hope and joy, tomorrow sadness and boredom are going to fulfill hours, and everybody in their mind will be already back to their old labor".
"Il sabato del villaggio" (the Saturday of the little town), second or third decade of the 1800, I believe.
When you talked about Scary Sundays, my mind went back to little Giacomo, here.
My compliments for the channel, good job!
The thought of a philosophical discussion here on the subject is making me smile.
Etsy sellers reminded me of a class of workers - artisan/craftspeople producing to sell at art fairs. They work very hard for a fingertip hold on self-supporting. I think they must believe that they are not alienated, but are they?
This was a wonderful discussion on alienation. This stuff really needs some views.
This channel is amazing. Great work, guys. You deserve a lot more views. Your thick 'Clueless' style american accents grate on my English ears, I admit. But still, this is great content.
Can Academia be alienating? If so, how?
How would UBI itself eradicate alienation unless it also eradicates the conditions or relations in society? UBI does not seem to be a sufficient condition for the change of social relations to the extent that it can eliminate alienation when people could still be craving for 'meaning', and competing with each other for non-financial/non-material reasons. (However one could argue that UBI is a 'necessary condition') Financial and material needs are not the only factor that foster alienation.
In a scenario where 'productive work' in itself is not coupled with any monetary incentive, 'productive work' derives its property of 'being productive' in a subjective scale of productivity or utilitarian value. (suppose this is what distinguishes one loaf or bread from another or one poem or artwork from another) This is analogous to how the market determines the value or price of something based on demand and supply. When you eliminate prices and financial incentives from the market by UBI and a universal welfare state, people could still compete with each other to distinguish the products of their labor from another's in a way that fosters alienation at least to the extent the prevailing culture and social relations espouse competition. Celebrities and influencers could still crave more 'likes' and fandom in comparison to their peers in the Universal welfare state with UBI, Professors could still crave better feedback from their students even after getting tenure track. The 'rational economic man' that was conceptualized in 19th & 20th centuries who is purely driven by financial and material factors is not an accurate model of the homo-sapien who is also driven by Desire, greed, and ego to a greater extent. The field of study behavioral economics suggest the same.
Meanwhile, it is interesting to note that Buddhism also presents a similar critique on the adverse effects of alienation in the way it manifests, but espouses a different approach to eradicate alienation by eliminating greed, desire, aversion, ego, and other defilements individually to enter and exist in a blissful communal existence. The 'sangha' community which is the congregation of enlightened people in Buddhism is an idealized example of a communist society.
Is there a relationship between Minimalism and Alienations?
Looking forward to the pod on aliens please
“Lets get back to work then” i-💀💀💀💀💀💀😂💀💀😂
3:31 moralize work is everywhere
38:28
Deficient mode or relation to the self or the world
I usually love E.A. podcasts. But here, with her friend, she creates a sort of "if they don't have bread, give them brioche" point of view. Am I alienated? were my parents alienated? how could we change things without the "big revolution"? are to me more important issues than Jeff Bezos ("give him bread rather than brioche") or the universal revenue gimmick that reminds me of the Ateliers Nationaux of 1848 in France. I would have liked a "critical" analysis of alienation, why it became an issue and why everything that was done based on its discovery didn't get us anywhere... besides the likes of Trump, Putin and XiJIng Pin. Alienated means to belong to another. If I belong to my mediocre self, can I still be alienated?