Part of me is pretty glad I started playing Steve in Tekken 8 simply because I feel that if I tried him in Tekken 7, I'd be horrified and hurt by the changes.
I play Leroy in T8. I was playing T7 when he was among the most hated characters due to being very strong and never thought to play him during that time. He seems high mid-tier in T8. I got into Fahkumram, who was hated just as much as Leroy though. I'm hoping he makes it to T8, but i have a feeling he may be nerfed too.
Sonic fang not giving a combo in heat just feels like revenge balancing. They didn't go "hmmm yh an easy + on block mid 14f launcher is a bit busted" because so many other characters have easy 14f launchers with heat. They just looked at Steve specifically and went "no he can't have it"
The problem is that Sonic Fang is too good whiff/block punish, longest distance i14 in the game (around 2.85) and it's guaranteed after too many moves that are +14 on hit. For example you land b2 or db1+2 Power Crush or back sway 1 in heat and you would launch for shit tone of damage.
Tekken is no longer a game where everyone has one individual strength, it’s a game where everyone has the same strengths; it’s just that some are better at it then others.
Well other than steve, bryan definitely are not generic as other character in the game and still play the same way as in tekken 7. Most character are just that generic in tekken 8 and being generic means being easy to pilot, has 80% of tools for everything and have high chances of comeback potential
With heat I can kinda see your point. But there are definitely differences in character’s strengths and gameplan. Sure some are similar, but each character does something better in some way.
@@nabedesu7708 Honestly I dislike the way tekken has become. The comeback mechanics are a lot making the gameplay too busy. T6 & Tag 2 had Rage T7 had Rage, Rage Arts, Rage Drives and Powercrush T8 has Rage, Rage Arts, Powercrush, Heat and Health increase on block. And every character does insane combo damage in T8 and has 50/50s.
Yeh but at the price of being slower as well and that's a huge trade off when this game is about being fast paced and in your face. But I can't deny bryan does seem to have better counter hit properties overall.
T7 steve was his peak in terms of character design While T8 Lion heart Ali shuffle looks cool, it does nothing to make him more unique counter hitting focus character
Steve is the Counter Punching Paragon but he's not allowed to have counter hits, only an underperforming stance that breaks his identity because he's NOT supposed to be a mix up character. This is a great example of poor balancing choices; They broke his identity, made him weaker considering how hard was, and people don't take him seriously anymore because of his voice. You turned one of the greatest fighting game character ever into a joke. Good job, Namco.
hey man we gotta buff the mishimers and with heihachi coming out (and with a bumton of stances as well) its the most sensible thing to do - harada, probably.
Agreed. As a long time steve main from TT2-T8 I feel like in their efforts to make him not be oppressive in top tiers anymore they unintentionally removed what made him feel really impactful. You said it best that instead of removing all the counter hit properties and mind games around that, he is just a boxing flavored 50/50 mixup rushdown character. and im sorry, but we got like 15 of those in tekken, I want my counter hitting boxman back
i think they did that too test the water on how far they could nerf him while somewhat retaining his former self but yeah as you said it horibly backfired ngl. i guess its a bit off karma for steve being so good in prior games ever since he got introduced back in t4 cause hes been a absolute top tier menace ever since.
@@just-dragon-yt Strong but hard, that's a good balance. The best thing they did to Steve was to nerf his DF2 and then the Shiro combo was discovered. His old DF2 counter hit properties were too cheap, too strong and too boring. Shiro combo must be in T8 again asap.
@@KyeCreates kazuya, marduk and some others where really bad during the old days, its after tt2 they received major buffs. tekken 5,6 and tag 2 kazuya would absolutly get his shit artificially pushed in by tekken 7 and 8 kazuya altho tt2 kaz is a little debatable because he had really good synergy with jinpachi and he also had b4,1+2
i swear they nerfed the hell out of so many either high execution, or counter based characters, i get it's a aggressive game but why does that mean the defensive characters can't be good
This is exactly what happened. You nailed it. They wanted to make the game more aggressive and offense-oriented, friendly to new players and with more comeback potential. Problem is, it came at the expense of defensive characters. Any characters that heavily rely on Tekken fundamentals, with slower moves, and relies on counterplay basically. Think Kazuya, Bryan, Paul, Lee Chaolan, and Steve.
Cause they’d be on paper the best characters in the game I do think some of they defensive tools should be buffed like I seen folks complaining about Jin and never understood it cause I play Kazuya I wash Jin and the other Mishimas right but fought em with Reina and got washed
They removed a lot of high execution combos and techs, they removed the shiro combo, they removed Bryan's FCDF2,1 combo which I loved, they removed the F3~4 tech bug with Steve unnecessarily, since it was hard to do. What remained? Paul's and Nina's QCF loops I guess. I wonder why didn't they just removed Devil Jin's WS3 tech.
honestly in my opinion, they could have just copy and pasted most defensive characters to 8 and they would be in a much better spot and wouldn't really be top tier, but for rn i feel like all they really need to do is improve heat, cause lee and steve have the WORST heats in the game by far
The idea behind t8 steve is that he is a stance pressure (not mixup) character with some counter hits and evasion sprinkled in. The problem with that is not only they completelly changed the identity of one of the most interesting characters in tekken, but they also failed do give him actually good pressure. So in the end you're either playing a mediocre stance character that sacrifices good buttons for evasion, or a subpar counter hit character that is worse at counter hintting that half the roaster. The idea behind "lets give him a mixup stance in lionheart so we can nerf his counter hits" made the character not only way worse on a competitively level, but also severly less fun to play with. Nerf lionheart, give us back his counter hits :(
Now one of the hardest characters in the game to pilot has to rely completely on outplays more times per match than characters with a far lower skill floor.
They did Steve dirty in Tekken 8 because he was literally the antithesis of what Tekken 8 is supposed to be. They had to ruin his gameplay, otherwise he would counter all the other characters by punishing them for continuously pressing buttons. Steve's essentially gone, what we have in 8 is just a shell.
I just want this video to get as much traction as possible so devs or at least the playerbase will understand. Hate hearing all the "Steve is fine" bs.
The reason why the Shiro was a thing in the first place was because the balance team wanted to remove his df2 counter hit launcher in season 2 or 3 . Shiro combo was a tech discovered by the community. Steve doesn't need tougher execution. That's not his core M.O. He is already a complex character at its core with his multi stance and transitions.
lets also not forget that in T7 B12 would also launch on CH with an auto bound in T8 if you get CH B12 you don't even get a launch anymore lmao also, he has NO wallsplat punish until i17 (with good execution) so he can't even wallsplat punish a rage art... he's far from bad in T8, but he REALLY needs a lot more strong CH launchers like in previous games (and B1,2 should do a tailspin screw again for wallsplats, heat dash sonic fang should launch too)
I saw enough with the heat engager, it felt slow when I saw it but to compare King and Steve together and King is actually way faster is an act of terrorism, no way King should be faster.
@@dragonic22 db32 knockdown is Steve legacy probably the strongest part of his wall pressure. Am I going to do rocket launcher or DB32? Guess wrong and it’s a wall splat
@@supakaioshin Not it's not better. The looping can easily be interrupted. A successful db3,2 gives way too little damage for the risk of getting launched. It's not worth it at all.
The most annoying part for me is, how you supposed to counter chraracters that has mid evasion like Xiaoyu, Lars, etc... Most of your pressure strings are mid or high, and the characters I said before can EASILY evade your stances with a move.
steve still destroys xiaoyu because the moves that hit her in regular aop are some of his best, on top of the fact you can back up into the stance that gets him out of range.
@@JEHUTTYY Over here destroys most of her tools, if you play Xiaoyu you will realize backing up kills her pressure and mixups and him backing up does exactly that
Steve went from the complete package…Tekken’s Mike Lowry/Mr. StealYoGirl, champ boxer w/a world class assassin for a deadbeat mom, to Law & Paul’s lackey?, to, Body…builderrr???
T8: where every character is just a different flavour of rush-down. Steve and Eddy are probably the biggest examples of how homogenous every character is now all because Bamco kept pushing this "aggressive" direction. Patient defense is punished, now you need to rely on your armors, bursts, and engagers to take back your turn I'm glad my main got spared this. I was once sad that Lei didn't make it, but now I'm just happy they didn't ruin him like they did Eddy
This is why I feel like King's df2,1, will probably get nerfed. It's one of his best pokes, can be hit comfirmable even with a delay, and the damage output is insane (especially when King has heat, rage, or stage hazards). Probably one of the best counter hit moves in the game and I think that alone already makes Steve a little puppy
@MrSolidsnake293 Well, all command throws don't track except generic throws or other throws that track. And what damage? Throws, combos, and other moves deal either a chunk or very little. Also, I'm not trying to downplay my boy. It's that everybody talks about how strong his df2,1 is. And people really don't like that he can get a 70+ damage combo off of a mid poke
That move literally flies so far under the radar it's crazy. Best move in T7, you can't even step it without lili or Alisa and only taller characters can backdash it easily
This. Really. They expanded characters past their identity to make them survive in Tekken 8, but they removed most of what Steve had and gave him virtually nothing to compensate. Counter Punching Paragon is now the weakest stance pressure character in the game, and that's his best trait.
They don't want a repeat of past Tekkens with Steve I'm assuming that's why it seems like they are really careful what they do with Steve. a game of aggression with Steve who is in fact a CH paragon and forces ppl to play his game does seem like a recipe for him being top tier again. That being said they really weren't careful with some of the other chars though which is sad I hope they treat everyone equal for Season 2
Tekken 8 is the only fighting game where the developers reinvented their automobile wheels to be square and think adding Nos will make the ride less bumpy.... its gonna take like a year + to get anything balanced and it's insulting
Jin has all of it because he has a huge PP (Protagonist Privilege) I'm still waiting for the day they give him his CH df2 back. This "counter punching paragon" is outclassed by other non-punching and non-counter hit focused characters and it's so depressing to see.
I like this change. He's meant to do counter hits to launch, not normal hits. I think B2 into heat is good to fit him in the T8 system whil nerfing his normal hit launch aspect, despite the othe things, of course.
@@LucasHenrique-vu9yj It would be better if his heat was actually decent. The best way to use Steve's heat in the game is to exit it as soon as you can with an albatross or sonic fang heat dash, which goes to show you how garbage it is.
They really did our boy dirty... to be fair, he has always been pretty much top tier since his inception, but never number 1 (besides maybe t5, but he wasn't the only cracked char in it). But yes, he needs to have his CH wr2 back. His df2 CH should atleast be a bit more lenient with the duck cancel in wr1,2 if not just give us the shiro... please. B1 is an okay change. Ngl it was dumb in T7 lmao such absurd damage and utility. Qcf+2 needs a huge buff... and so does all his heat engagers. They're actually terrible. I don't think sonic heat engageas a launcher is the answer, but more like all i14f heat engagers should just not launch, in general. He needs some loving. May harada sensei please be kind to our chad chin GOAT
@hiraprxc lmao i wouldn't be surprised. He can be a bit spiteful cause he gets so much unnecessary flack 😅😂. I will pray still. Steve is one of my faves. Hwo my main and steve a close sub, albeit i haven't really done much with him in T8 lol too busy ranking up other chars
invincible? You can't block during this stance and it's guarenteed death if the opponent has rage. Its range only protects close range attacks as well, a mid range attack will launch it most of the time. This move is only good once or twice a match if the opponent has any adaptability whatsoever.
- bring back shiro combo - bring back the knockdown after stomp (db3,2) - Sonic fang can wallsplats + give a full launch with heat - give him a mid homing move I will be a happy man if this happen
Yeah, stomp does not need to knock down, and never needed to. But the tracking on df2 needes to come back, it literally does 10 dmg and doesn't fully combo on counter hit, fam. And here's Claudio with his high crushing wallsplating on normal hit b1.
Making a 2nd comment i noticed if you try to instant flicker jab like in T7 you'll get a counter input by mistake instead & also if in heat you try to quick input any peekaboo down or downforward moves you'll get a heat smash instead...
You forgot to show that his B1 that was supposed to be safe (-1f on FLK transition) is for some reason, punishable on 10f, unless you cancel FLK with DB
It's actually -12 on block. Although the frame data shows that it's supposed to be safe. This has been an issue since T8 came out, but I don't think they mean to fix it.
I think this is one of the design flaw with tekken 8. They want aggression for everyone, but that contradict with some of the characters identity. Since CH would be op in aggresive game, so CH moves had to be nerfed. And seems like steve got nerfed the most.
Strong CH don't even make a character OP. Look at Lee who arguably has the best counterhit tools in the game. i16 highcrush low ch launcher, i20 -2 mid ch launcher with good range, i21 +2 homing mid ch launcher, i11 ch high ch launcher, i12 low hit confirmable ch low heat engager + wallsplat, i10 high 50 damage + wallsplat ch string. Even with all that insane CH tools Lee is still widely considered to be mid tier at best because his aggressive tools and heat are all severely lacking which is just how the devs want you to play tekken 8.
@@cyerye2684 Strong CH doesn't make a character OP, but rewards people with good timing. If those CH attacks require execution, it'll reward the player even more.
I am so disappointed with what they did to steve…why give him a launcher that launches from range 3…with a guard break that’s high…do they want you to play 50/50 all day…nerfed his CH game heavily…and LH 2 and 1+2 look so anime like…steve’s move set used to have grounded and realistic animations…he speaks too much took away the sh shh shh voices…and gave him crapy dialogues (again anime like)…..what people are seeing in tekken 8 is a low grade cheap version…bring back the old steve.
Fuck it bring the homing df2 ch launcher instead of the nerfed version. Dude is the only character that doesn't have a reliable mid homing in a game where every character has some sort of bullshit evasion both lateral and ducking mid (i got a lot of clips where qcf1 gets ducked). It sucks being a steve enjoyer
Haven't watched the video yet but: I've never understood why people say Steve is the King of Counter Hits only doing combos on counter hit doesnt mean you have good counter hit tools, it just means you rely on counters more heavily. the true counter hit king (IMO) is Bryan. Counter Hit Launchers include: F3, B1, B2, QCF 3, QCB 1, second hit of QCB, 2, 4. FF4, WS3, F4, 1, SS1, his infamous 3+4 and how safe it is with range. Bryan counter hits with better moves and more consistency because of the way he's allowed to play. he gets combo's from counter hit more because more of his moves are reliable to counter hit with.
I myself remain quite comfortable using Steve, even despite these setbacks. In his defence, he does still have PKB2 CH as a launcher and even FLKR 2 CH, although I do agree that the reduction in damage on df2 and b1 was a bit harsh. In order for him to get the Shiro combo again, they'd have to change what Gatling Gun does to opponents who are in that bound-like state first, as the second hit doesn't pick them up. He could probably do with another mid homing move, although ub2 is quite useful, given the frame advantage on hit.
Ya'll be talking smack about King but no King player ever complained about how strong Steve was in 7 when King was mid tier at best. Steve is weak compared to his T7 iteration but you have to consider that system changes are there too. In a game where counter hits are less of a priority and the focus is more on rush down, I think you gotta think differently on how you approach the character. Zafina mains are barely eating scraps but you don't see them cry like Steve mains do lmao.
@@tristanherb49 like losing a lot of her key tools from 7 by being gone or stance locked, damage output being so bad and her overall gameplay being risky cause using azazel related moves chips her health? Yeah go sit with your fellow on paper downplayers.
the carry was nerfed too, no more wall splats so its Pidgeon hole the steve strategy of pushing someone into a corner like a real boxing match people need to start looking at steve law and king as the basic triangle of utilitys steve = mid damage, lots of interruptions law = low damage, super poke and juggles king = mid damage, very technical high damage combos, grabs were not supposed to do insane damage but progress to longer chain setups to get high damage
@X_The_Y Yeah 100 to 93 isn’t that severe, if it were unrecoverable. Tekken 8 nerfed floating state damage by adding recoverable health. That is HUGE for characters like Steve. His whole identity was based on him landing a strong counter hit to make up for his bad punishment. Remember, him having all this counter hit utility meant that he was deadly when the opponent is pressing, but when he has to do a comeback, and the opponent isn’t pressing or throwing heavily punishable moves it becomes a nightmare. Sure some of his counter hits have become simple follow-ups, which results in unrecoverable health, but the damage is straight up nerfed compared to previous games.
Ok I agree the wall damage was slightly nerfed, (even though if it were Jin everyone would cause a riot) but that's besides the point... Why didn't you mention the other valid points in this video??
they neutered steve in this game by taking essential tools and strategy away from him in order to simplify him. This is a prime example of how streamlining a character can greatly diminish them. And how ultimately, a unique design such as steve, can fall flat on its face. He is a shadow of his former glory. Giving him a kenpo backstep and garbage 50/50 cannot change this. What they did to this character upsets me greatly, and im sure most others would agree.
I’ve played Steve for all of tekken 7 and I can whole heartedly say tekken 8 Steve fucking sucks. Even though he has some new neat tricks, he’s still just mid. And that’s coming from someone whose main is Steve. He feels off. Not a threat anymore. He feels like a character all you have to do is wait to punish.
I started to play Tekken in T7 halfway into S2 and mained Steve. I honsetly dislike T8 Steve.T8 at launch i spent hours grinding ranked only to get stuck in Garyu. After one too many loses i started to play Bryan (my 2nd main from T7) and within 2-3 hours i was Shinryu. At that point i stopped maining Steve. You have to work so hard without the tools you are suposed to have, that it makes playing Steve a chore and not fun anymore (imo).
okay now with your simple but clear comparison video, i finally understand why Steve is considered a downgraded character. I'm a steve main since tekken 5 and i do feel he got dumbed down real bad in tekken 8. his best build for me was in tekken 7 season 2 and tekken 6.
Can we also talk about how most characters horizontal wall carry moves wall splat (for example Jin ZEN1,2 @ 7:06 ) allow for wall combo but they've removed clean wall splat from ALB2. Now it will wall carry but there's no clean splat to combo from, they fall too quickly. It almost seems like it's a bug or intentionally doesn't follow the same rules as other characters. Also, I'd like to see a better i15 punish than just f1+2,2. Make b2 i15 and -12 on block but keep the guaranteed follow-up from it that way we have a better i15 punish.
I think Steve should get a few more CH (launcher or not), but he's so annoying to fight, he's like a Hwoarang but safer (and not launching that much). I think that, if he was a little bit less evasive while having more CH utility, he's be less annoying to fight. Steve in Tekken 8 is just so weird, I prefer both Steve and Jin from Tekken 7 than those abominations we have. Lidia, Paul, Kazuya and so many others got such an amazing reworks, while a few others are just... so stupid who does everything (like Jin) or does nothing (like Steve, even tho he's extremely annoying, to me).
they could've given him the old rage drive launcher with heat sonic fang OR the ability to transition into ducking after sonic fang when in heat but nooo he gotta shuffle like Ali do. except Ali does that to dodge hits. plus the fact that Yoshimitsu can literally FLASH all options including the duck cancel so you either have to not commit or weave instead.
Not to mention they also gave him imo the most obnoxious and worst voice revamp out of the entire cast. In his interaction with hwoarang, he literally says, "You talk too much" MEANWHILE, Hwoarang barely talks at all, and Steve keeps going "Bullseye, Smash, Upper, uppercut, THAT'S A KNOCKOUT, No more playing around, It's over" and more. He's so obnoxious. Unironically t7 was better for his voice.
@@phaus5815nah they could look at Balrog from SFv & ed with a flicker low from sf6 which is absolutely sick...they could easily br creative and give him something similar.
Truth is steve isnt king of counters anymore. He is the king of grabs 😂. His heat, b3 1+2, peekaboo, etc his setups is now reliant on other tools than just counters
I think they did great job with all the characters and moves. A lot of the inputs were too complicated and some moves were usless. It’s less combo heavy like the last game. Which was really good.
I just get a feeling devs cant comprehend how steve works in their own game, its just obvious that toolkit EVERY character has should have tools that compliment each other.. Steve's whole pkb stance is fucking pointless rn since holding "b" is enough to mitigate any threat while in t7 you could go for various mindgames if ur opponent respects pkb pressure u could go ducking and threat a ws2 ch launch or another timing based mixup or a simple fcdf1 that will eventually add up, if ur opponent respects pkb and duck pressure you could go ext duck and threaten a guardbreak into ws12 or mid launch, my man had LAYERS ON LAYERS of mindgames, now you just literally hold "b" and win against this abomination of a character
I think it would be cool if they brought back ws2 ch but gave it the same properties that b1 has with b1,2. So ws2 on its own ch launches and ws 2,2 string is left as is
He also has a 42 damage, 12f low counter hit string that goes into heat, a 50 damage 10 frame hit confirmable string that does half health at the wall, and of course B4, D3, amongst other things.
Exactly. Steve was never known for his CH game, that was always Lee’s identity. Just like how Hwoarang is known as king of Pokes. King is known as King of Grabs, Anna known as Queen of 50/50s, etc… Because they were the best at what they do until T7 slowly started to change that and make them all alike.
Tekken 8 is my first real foray into the series, and while I have fun with Steve, I gotta say this is pretty disheartening to see how much stronger and capable he was in T7
If they want to change steve from a CH character to a stance mixup character fine, but at least buff his lows and revert sonic fang back to the way it was in T7 and I wouldn't complain as much
Part of me is pretty glad I started playing Steve in Tekken 8 simply because I feel that if I tried him in Tekken 7, I'd be horrified and hurt by the changes.
I started playing Steve right at the tail end of T7 season 2 and it's been nothing but pain every patch for 4.5 years straight 🥲
Good chooce, mate. Don't look back. XD
I play Leroy in T8. I was playing T7 when he was among the most hated characters due to being very strong and never thought to play him during that time. He seems high mid-tier in T8. I got into Fahkumram, who was hated just as much as Leroy though. I'm hoping he makes it to T8, but i have a feeling he may be nerfed too.
pain
That's why I don't play him now lol. I played him religiously in T7. I'll get to him eventually though.
Sonic fang not giving a combo in heat just feels like revenge balancing. They didn't go "hmmm yh an easy + on block mid 14f launcher is a bit busted" because so many other characters have easy 14f launchers with heat. They just looked at Steve specifically and went "no he can't have it"
harada has some beef with the brits?
The problem is that Sonic Fang is too good whiff/block punish, longest distance i14 in the game (around 2.85) and it's guaranteed after too many moves that are +14 on hit.
For example you land b2 or db1+2 Power Crush or back sway 1 in heat and you would launch for shit tone of damage.
true. Bryan and Paul get i14 launchers in neutral, why cant steve get one in heat?
Tekken is no longer a game where everyone has one individual strength, it’s a game where everyone has the same strengths; it’s just that some are better at it then others.
Agree. I really hate this change. I miss the uniqueness they had before Tag2.
Well other than steve, bryan definitely are not generic as other character in the game and still play the same way as in tekken 7. Most character are just that generic in tekken 8 and being generic means being easy to pilot, has 80% of tools for everything and have high chances of comeback potential
With heat I can kinda see your point. But there are definitely differences in character’s strengths and gameplan. Sure some are similar, but each character does something better in some way.
@@nabedesu7708 Honestly I dislike the way tekken has become. The comeback mechanics are a lot making the gameplay too busy.
T6 & Tag 2 had Rage
T7 had Rage, Rage Arts, Rage Drives and Powercrush
T8 has Rage, Rage Arts, Powercrush, Heat and Health increase on block.
And every character does insane combo damage in T8 and has 50/50s.
@@since2133apparently not Steve
Steve is my main and I enjoy playing him, saying that i think Bryan can do everything Steve can do but better
Yeh but at the price of being slower as well and that's a huge trade off when this game is about being fast paced and in your face. But I can't deny bryan does seem to have better counter hit properties overall.
Not everything better lol.
>Counter hit paragon
>Doesn't counter hit on recovery frames
Character dropped
what does this even mean?
we really playing the game on hard mode with this char lmao
He is "The identity crisis paragon"
T7 steve was his peak in terms of character design
While T8 Lion heart Ali shuffle looks cool, it does nothing to make him more unique counter hitting focus character
That stance should not be automatic.
@@wildman7220 It's not an automatic transition anymore, you can cancel it by holding back. They made it optional in the last balance patch.
@@xspr958 unless its from fox hunt. everything else seems to be valid though.
@@Geheimnis-c2e you mean outfox? Ub3? That's not really a transition, more like the manual input for the stance, like f3+4 for peekaboo for example.
EXACTLY!!!
Steve is the Counter Punching Paragon but he's not allowed to have counter hits, only an underperforming stance that breaks his identity because he's NOT supposed to be a mix up character.
This is a great example of poor balancing choices; They broke his identity, made him weaker considering how hard was, and people don't take him seriously anymore because of his voice.
You turned one of the greatest fighting game character ever into a joke.
Good job, Namco.
Unfortunately, well said.
hey man we gotta buff the mishimers and with heihachi coming out (and with a bumton of stances as well) its the most sensible thing to do - harada, probably.
"They had to nerf it cuz hes a counter punching paragon." Im dead, THE SHADE! 🤣
Agreed. As a long time steve main from TT2-T8 I feel like in their efforts to make him not be oppressive in top tiers anymore they unintentionally removed what made him feel really impactful. You said it best that instead of removing all the counter hit properties and mind games around that, he is just a boxing flavored 50/50 mixup rushdown character. and im sorry, but we got like 15 of those in tekken, I want my counter hitting boxman back
i think they did that too test the water on how far they could nerf him while somewhat retaining his former self but yeah as you said it horibly backfired ngl. i guess its a bit off karma for steve being so good in prior games ever since he got introduced back in t4 cause hes been a absolute top tier menace ever since.
@@just-dragon-yt Strong but hard, that's a good balance. The best thing they did to Steve was to nerf his DF2 and then the Shiro combo was discovered. His old DF2 counter hit properties were too cheap, too strong and too boring. Shiro combo must be in T8 again asap.
They basically did that with every character in the game. its sad
Unintentionally? More like intentionally we need to stop giving them the benefit of the doubt.
@@KyeCreates kazuya, marduk and some others where really bad during the old days, its after tt2 they received major buffs. tekken 5,6 and tag 2 kazuya would absolutly get his shit artificially pushed in by tekken 7 and 8 kazuya altho tt2 kaz is a little debatable because he had really good synergy with jinpachi and he also had b4,1+2
i swear they nerfed the hell out of so many either high execution, or counter based characters, i get it's a aggressive game but why does that mean the defensive characters can't be good
This is exactly what happened. You nailed it. They wanted to make the game more aggressive and offense-oriented, friendly to new players and with more comeback potential. Problem is, it came at the expense of defensive characters. Any characters that heavily rely on Tekken fundamentals, with slower moves, and relies on counterplay basically. Think Kazuya, Bryan, Paul, Lee Chaolan, and Steve.
Cause they’d be on paper the best characters in the game I do think some of they defensive tools should be buffed like I seen folks complaining about Jin and never understood it cause I play Kazuya I wash Jin and the other Mishimas right but fought em with Reina and got washed
They removed a lot of high execution combos and techs, they removed the shiro combo, they removed Bryan's FCDF2,1 combo which I loved, they removed the F3~4 tech bug with Steve unnecessarily, since it was hard to do. What remained? Paul's and Nina's QCF loops I guess. I wonder why didn't they just removed Devil Jin's WS3 tech.
honestly in my opinion, they could have just copy and pasted most defensive characters to 8 and they would be in a much better spot and wouldn't really be top tier, but for rn i feel like all they really need to do is improve heat, cause lee and steve have the WORST heats in the game by far
@@SGHNTZ i like that the game is more begineer friendly, but i don't understand why high level tech can't stay
The idea behind t8 steve is that he is a stance pressure (not mixup) character with some counter hits and evasion sprinkled in. The problem with that is not only they completelly changed the identity of one of the most interesting characters in tekken, but they also failed do give him actually good pressure. So in the end you're either playing a mediocre stance character that sacrifices good buttons for evasion, or a subpar counter hit character that is worse at counter hintting that half the roaster. The idea behind "lets give him a mixup stance in lionheart so we can nerf his counter hits" made the character not only way worse on a competitively level, but also severly less fun to play with. Nerf lionheart, give us back his counter hits :(
THIS! ☝
This almost sounds like what they did to Lidia from t7 to t8...
Cry me a river😢glad they nerfed him. One of the cheapest character in the whole game
@@Mentis-de not really. he always had a high execution barrier. If you lost to a Steve that couldn't execute, it was a massive skill issue.
Now one of the hardest characters in the game to pilot has to rely completely on outplays more times per match than characters with a far lower skill floor.
They did Steve dirty in Tekken 8 because he was literally the antithesis of what Tekken 8 is supposed to be. They had to ruin his gameplay, otherwise he would counter all the other characters by punishing them for continuously pressing buttons. Steve's essentially gone, what we have in 8 is just a shell.
"Counter punching paragon" is just sarcasm at this point
Best CH character is Lee IMO
they taking the piss by calling him that ngl
@TekkenLetS I think king is better (unironically)
Maybe Steve needs to stop lying to himself and pick up a sword or a gun so Bamco will finally remember he exists
He's British, he can be incorporated with a knife
I just want this video to get as much traction as possible so devs or at least the playerbase will understand. Hate hearing all the "Steve is fine" bs.
Steve is def the weirdest and most confusing character in T8. I wonder what the devs are really trying to do with him
Nerf him to ground without outrage
He Needs His Shiro Combo Back,I Thought That He Is Gonna Have More Moves From Which Shiro Combo Will Be Executed In T8 😂😂😂
The reason why the Shiro was a thing in the first place was because the balance team wanted to remove his df2 counter hit launcher in season 2 or 3 . Shiro combo was a tech discovered by the community. Steve doesn't need tougher execution. That's not his core M.O. He is already a complex character at its core with his multi stance and transitions.
you can with Heat Dash qcf1/ALB 2, LNH 1+2 also
lets also not forget that in T7 B12 would also launch on CH with an auto bound
in T8 if you get CH B12 you don't even get a launch anymore lmao
also, he has NO wallsplat punish until i17 (with good execution) so he can't even wallsplat punish a rage art...
he's far from bad in T8, but he REALLY needs a lot more strong CH launchers like in previous games (and B1,2 should do a tailspin screw again for wallsplats, heat dash sonic fang should launch too)
Steve's qcf+2 was weak in T7 but now is beyond obsolete...
Let's hope Bandai actually reads this comments and finds these posts
Bandai namco is very incompetent when it comes to balancing
@@TheTriangle444 we know
I saw enough with the heat engager, it felt slow when I saw it but to compare King and Steve together and King is actually way faster is an act of terrorism, no way King should be faster.
Steve gets WS2 CH launcher, DF2 CH Launcher, and DB32 knocking down again and he’s literally become immensely better again
I don't like that DB32 change, to be honest. I'd rather his character focus more on counter hits
@@dragonic22 db32 knockdown is Steve legacy probably the strongest part of his wall pressure. Am I going to do rocket launcher or DB32? Guess wrong and it’s a wall splat
@@LudFoesBeanienah the new db32 is better at the wall cause u can loop it
Not worth it @@supakaioshin
@@supakaioshin Not it's not better. The looping can easily be interrupted. A successful db3,2 gives way too little damage for the risk of getting launched. It's not worth it at all.
All I know from this is if you play steve against a good Jun who knows the match up, you die for even playing normally.
The most annoying part for me is, how you supposed to counter chraracters that has mid evasion like Xiaoyu, Lars, etc...
Most of your pressure strings are mid or high, and the characters I said before can EASILY evade your stances with a move.
steve still destroys xiaoyu because the moves that hit her in regular aop are some of his best, on top of the fact you can back up into the stance that gets him out of range.
@@KyeCreatesyou're bugging lmao
And my dude (top) i totally agree he doesnt even have a Homing MID that 99% of the cast has.. Also got rid of his sidestep 1+2
@@JEHUTTYY Over here destroys most of her tools, if you play Xiaoyu you will realize backing up kills her pressure and mixups and him backing up does exactly that
Steve went from the complete package…Tekken’s Mike Lowry/Mr. StealYoGirl, champ boxer w/a world class assassin for a deadbeat mom, to Law & Paul’s lackey?, to, Body…builderrr???
with how many stances he has, i was very surprised to know he was a counter character rather than a stance character
Steve in t7= monster
Steve in t8= fucking colown 😮💨
Iven the iconic win pose ( try me guv) gone wtf is this harada they kill my boy 😢
"The character with no identity"
Shaheen:
who is shaheen?
Nowadays he's more of a "run away and hope the other guy does something really dumb" paragon
They brutalized Steve... Poor guv...
T8: where every character is just a different flavour of rush-down. Steve and Eddy are probably the biggest examples of how homogenous every character is now all because Bamco kept pushing this "aggressive" direction. Patient defense is punished, now you need to rely on your armors, bursts, and engagers to take back your turn
I'm glad my main got spared this. I was once sad that Lei didn't make it, but now I'm just happy they didn't ruin him like they did Eddy
Everybody else playing Tekken 8, but Steve's playing Tekken Revolution.
This is why I feel like King's df2,1, will probably get nerfed. It's one of his best pokes, can be hit comfirmable even with a delay, and the damage output is insane (especially when King has heat, rage, or stage hazards). Probably one of the best counter hit moves in the game and I think that alone already makes Steve a little puppy
can we just nerf throws tracking and lower the damage across the entire roster instead of just beating king with the nerf bat
@MrSolidsnake293 Well, all command throws don't track except generic throws or other throws that track. And what damage? Throws, combos, and other moves deal either a chunk or very little. Also, I'm not trying to downplay my boy. It's that everybody talks about how strong his df2,1 is. And people really don't like that he can get a 70+ damage combo off of a mid poke
That move literally flies so far under the radar it's crazy. Best move in T7, you can't even step it without lili or Alisa and only taller characters can backdash it easily
@LeiChaobruh i just played against armor king, and lost the last match because this fuckin move tracks from half the fuckin screen
@@alondjeckto You playing tekken 7 😮
Introducing the counter hit paragon
Steve: My time to shine
Bryan: Ahem
King: Ahem
At least Bryan is a counter hit based character. Why do king and nina have better counter hits than him
Lee: Ahem
Law: Ahem
Steve is more like a counterpunching clown
This. Really. They expanded characters past their identity to make them survive in Tekken 8, but they removed most of what Steve had and gave him virtually nothing to compensate. Counter Punching Paragon is now the weakest stance pressure character in the game, and that's his best trait.
Watch it Miguel coming back to tekken 8 and have some of the best ch 😄🤞
I dont know how top players like heera feel with steve now
They don't want a repeat of past Tekkens with Steve I'm assuming that's why it seems like they are really careful what they do with Steve. a game of aggression with Steve who is in fact a CH paragon and forces ppl to play his game does seem like a recipe for him being top tier again. That being said they really weren't careful with some of the other chars though which is sad I hope they treat everyone equal for Season 2
Tekken 8 is the only fighting game where the developers reinvented their automobile wheels to be square and think adding Nos will make the ride less bumpy....
its gonna take like a year + to get anything balanced and it's insulting
Jin has all of it because he has a huge PP (Protagonist Privilege)
I'm still waiting for the day they give him his CH df2 back. This "counter punching paragon" is outclassed by other non-punching and non-counter hit focused characters and it's so depressing to see.
Also b2 was a normal hit luncher
I like this change. He's meant to do counter hits to launch, not normal hits. I think B2 into heat is good to fit him in the T8 system whil nerfing his normal hit launch aspect, despite the othe things, of course.
@@LucasHenrique-vu9yj It would be better if his heat was actually decent. The best way to use Steve's heat in the game is to exit it as soon as you can with an albatross or sonic fang heat dash, which goes to show you how garbage it is.
They really did our boy dirty... to be fair, he has always been pretty much top tier since his inception, but never number 1 (besides maybe t5, but he wasn't the only cracked char in it).
But yes, he needs to have his CH wr2 back. His df2 CH should atleast be a bit more lenient with the duck cancel in wr1,2 if not just give us the shiro... please.
B1 is an okay change. Ngl it was dumb in T7 lmao such absurd damage and utility.
Qcf+2 needs a huge buff... and so does all his heat engagers. They're actually terrible. I don't think sonic heat engageas a launcher is the answer, but more like all i14f heat engagers should just not launch, in general.
He needs some loving. May harada sensei please be kind to our chad chin GOAT
Harada probably would just nerf him more if we keep asking for it lmao.
@hiraprxc lmao i wouldn't be surprised. He can be a bit spiteful cause he gets so much unnecessary flack 😅😂.
I will pray still. Steve is one of my faves. Hwo my main and steve a close sub, albeit i haven't really done much with him in T8 lol too busy ranking up other chars
Steve fox's identity now is his invincible over here to basically avoid everything
Wym feng is better at that than steve
invincible? You can't block during this stance and it's guarenteed death if the opponent has rage. Its range only protects close range attacks as well, a mid range attack will launch it most of the time. This move is only good once or twice a match if the opponent has any adaptability whatsoever.
Budget kenpo is ova here
Bro you forgot RW 1,2 hit confirmable CH launcher that also got removed…..since steve had to be made Counter Punching Paragon in tekken 8
I genuinely think just asding df2 counter hit launch back would make him much more viable. It's a higher execution mid, which complements his b1
- bring back shiro combo
- bring back the knockdown after stomp (db3,2)
- Sonic fang can wallsplats + give a full launch with heat
- give him a mid homing move
I will be a happy man if this happen
df2 should have tracking. then when people get afraid to SS-duck, we can use UB2 for plus frames
Why don't bring back df2 from season one when you can combo directly lol
Knockdown after stomp being gone is fine since we can loop it indefinitely imo. Sonic fang wall splat I 100% agree with tho
Yeah, stomp does not need to knock down, and never needed to. But the tracking on df2 needes to come back, it literally does 10 dmg and doesn't fully combo on counter hit, fam. And here's Claudio with his high crushing wallsplating on normal hit b1.
And his damage is very weak
Making a 2nd comment i noticed if you try to instant flicker jab like in T7 you'll get a counter input by mistake instead & also if in heat you try to quick input any peekaboo down or downforward moves you'll get a heat smash instead...
They should give Steve heat back when he lands certain counter hits. So his heat mixups can be utilized more and not feel as underwhelming
I miss t7 Steve 🥲
You forgot to show that his B1 that was supposed to be safe (-1f on FLK transition) is for some reason, punishable on 10f, unless you cancel FLK with DB
Thought it was just me
Wait what? This shit seems like a murder
Pretty sure it’s actually a 12f punish move without crouch cancel
It's actually -12 on block. Although the frame data shows that it's supposed to be safe. This has been an issue since T8 came out, but I don't think they mean to fix it.
I just tested it and it really is -12f without cancel... Harada really hates our guv boxer
Steve BUFFS Incoming - Patch 1.08!
Source: trust me bro
I think this is one of the design flaw with tekken 8. They want aggression for everyone, but that contradict with some of the characters identity. Since CH would be op in aggresive game, so CH moves had to be nerfed. And seems like steve got nerfed the most.
What if his heat moves were locked behind counter hits to be more effective? It would enhance his identity while making his agression not just bs
Strong CH don't even make a character OP. Look at Lee who arguably has the best counterhit tools in the game. i16 highcrush low ch launcher, i20 -2 mid ch launcher with good range, i21 +2 homing mid ch launcher, i11 ch high ch launcher, i12 low hit confirmable ch low heat engager + wallsplat, i10 high 50 damage + wallsplat ch string. Even with all that insane CH tools Lee is still widely considered to be mid tier at best because his aggressive tools and heat are all severely lacking which is just how the devs want you to play tekken 8.
@@cyerye2684 Strong CH doesn't make a character OP, but rewards people with good timing. If those CH attacks require execution, it'll reward the player even more.
I am so disappointed with what they did to steve…why give him a launcher that launches from range 3…with a guard break that’s high…do they want you to play 50/50 all day…nerfed his CH game heavily…and LH 2 and 1+2 look so anime like…steve’s move set used to have grounded and realistic animations…he speaks too much took away the sh shh shh voices…and gave him crapy dialogues (again anime like)…..what people are seeing in tekken 8 is a low grade cheap version…bring back the old steve.
His older voice was much more menacing
No joke giving us ch ws2 back would be huge. Sonic fang wall stick would be great too. If i could ask for anything it would just be that.
Spread and share, get the devs attention!
Fuck it bring the homing df2 ch launcher instead of the nerfed version. Dude is the only character that doesn't have a reliable mid homing in a game where every character has some sort of bullshit evasion both lateral and ducking mid (i got a lot of clips where qcf1 gets ducked). It sucks being a steve enjoyer
after playing Steve in this game, I feel like he could be more fun if he had his counters back
Steve is still in that 7.5 stage. He needs buffs or either the other characters needs hug nerfs
hes only good in closed off arenas, but other characters stand out even more than he does in smaller arenas too so it still doesn't even out
nerf everyone I say, T8 so obsessed with making everyone do everything it's like having too much sugar on my drink, it gets sickly sweet real quick.
Haven't watched the video yet but:
I've never understood why people say Steve is the King of Counter Hits
only doing combos on counter hit doesnt mean you have good counter hit tools, it just means you rely on counters more heavily.
the true counter hit king (IMO) is Bryan. Counter Hit Launchers include: F3, B1, B2, QCF 3, QCB 1, second hit of QCB, 2, 4. FF4, WS3, F4, 1, SS1, his infamous 3+4 and how safe it is with range.
Bryan counter hits with better moves and more consistency because of the way he's allowed to play. he gets combo's from counter hit more because more of his moves are reliable to counter hit with.
Lee has the best counter hit game currently imo
you forgot the new addition (1,2),1 which now CH on the third hit, yeah Bryan's CH are so strong
@@mochotrana oh I probably forgot a lot of his CH moves
Hes got like
11 CH launchers I think?
f41 is normal hit launcher, 12 ch1 was at least in tekken 7. Ff4 no longer ch launches (sadly)
@@alondjeckto THEY REMOVED THE FF4 CH LAUNCH IN TEKKEN 8!?
DUDE THE COMBO I COULD GET OFF OF THAT WAS LIKE 80 DAMAGW
Guess it comes with them making the game "more mixup based" and "less counter hit based"
I myself remain quite comfortable using Steve, even despite these setbacks. In his defence, he does still have PKB2 CH as a launcher and even FLKR 2 CH, although I do agree that the reduction in damage on df2 and b1 was a bit harsh. In order for him to get the Shiro combo again, they'd have to change what Gatling Gun does to opponents who are in that bound-like state first, as the second hit doesn't pick them up. He could probably do with another mid homing move, although ub2 is quite useful, given the frame advantage on hit.
Ya'll be talking smack about King but no King player ever complained about how strong Steve was in 7 when King was mid tier at best. Steve is weak compared to his T7 iteration but you have to consider that system changes are there too. In a game where counter hits are less of a priority and the focus is more on rush down, I think you gotta think differently on how you approach the character. Zafina mains are barely eating scraps but you don't see them cry like Steve mains do lmao.
King is better at ch than king let that sink in...
also zafina didn't lose her identity
@@tristanherb49 king is better at ch than king?
@@tristanherb49 like losing a lot of her key tools from 7 by being gone or stance locked, damage output being so bad and her overall gameplay being risky cause using azazel related moves chips her health? Yeah go sit with your fellow on paper downplayers.
i meant than steve sry@@isaiahroberts1183
"HEAVILY nerfed his wall damage"
100 to 93, cmon now.
he went from 27 dmg to 20 dmg wall combo thats a big deal
the carry was nerfed too, no more wall splats so its Pidgeon hole the steve strategy of pushing someone into a corner like a real boxing match
people need to start looking at steve law and king as the basic triangle of utilitys
steve = mid damage, lots of interruptions
law = low damage, super poke and juggles
king = mid damage, very technical high damage combos, grabs were not supposed to do insane damage but progress to longer chain setups to get high damage
@X_The_Y Yeah 100 to 93 isn’t that severe, if it were unrecoverable. Tekken 8 nerfed floating state damage by adding recoverable health. That is HUGE for characters like Steve. His whole identity was based on him landing a strong counter hit to make up for his bad punishment. Remember, him having all this counter hit utility meant that he was deadly when the opponent is pressing, but when he has to do a comeback, and the opponent isn’t pressing or throwing heavily punishable moves it becomes a nightmare. Sure some of his counter hits have become simple follow-ups, which results in unrecoverable health, but the damage is straight up nerfed compared to previous games.
100 to 93 is pretty severe when you understand how that damage is structured.
Ok I agree the wall damage was slightly nerfed, (even though if it were Jin everyone would cause a riot) but that's besides the point... Why didn't you mention the other valid points in this video??
they neutered steve in this game by taking essential tools and strategy away from him in order to simplify him.
This is a prime example of how streamlining a character can greatly diminish them. And how ultimately, a unique design such as steve, can fall flat on its face.
He is a shadow of his former glory. Giving him a kenpo backstep and garbage 50/50 cannot change this.
What they did to this character upsets me greatly, and im sure most others would agree.
When you showcased Jin with the caption “It had to be buffed” was hilarious 😂
They nerfed my boy to the ground and put nonsense OP 50/50 moves for everyone else!
T7 steve was deff more satisfying in a lot of ways to play, i feel the same with law just have no fun playing him in t8 loved his t7 iteration
This truly is our counter punching paragon
You also lose launch if you do B1 extensions on CH
I’ve played Steve for all of tekken 7 and I can whole heartedly say tekken 8 Steve fucking sucks. Even though he has some new neat tricks, he’s still just mid. And that’s coming from someone whose main is Steve. He feels off. Not a threat anymore. He feels like a character all you have to do is wait to punish.
Devil Jin comparison next?
I started to play Tekken in T7 halfway into S2 and mained Steve. I honsetly dislike T8 Steve.T8 at launch i spent hours grinding ranked only to get stuck in Garyu. After one too many loses i started to play Bryan (my 2nd main from T7) and within 2-3 hours i was Shinryu. At that point i stopped maining Steve. You have to work so hard without the tools you are suposed to have, that it makes playing Steve a chore and not fun anymore (imo).
buff steve pls 😥
I’m glad Bryan and Kazuya didn’t get destroyed honestly
okay now with your simple but clear comparison video, i finally understand why Steve is considered a downgraded character.
I'm a steve main since tekken 5 and i do feel he got dumbed down real bad in tekken 8. his best build for me was in tekken 7 season 2 and tekken 6.
Can we also talk about how most characters horizontal wall carry moves wall splat (for example Jin ZEN1,2 @ 7:06 ) allow for wall combo but they've removed clean wall splat from ALB2. Now it will wall carry but there's no clean splat to combo from, they fall too quickly. It almost seems like it's a bug or intentionally doesn't follow the same rules as other characters.
Also, I'd like to see a better i15 punish than just f1+2,2. Make b2 i15 and -12 on block but keep the guaranteed follow-up from it that way we have a better i15 punish.
After DF 2 you can get more damage if you do his 1+2 from dashing in, its tricky to hit confirm but well worth the damage for the ch
I think Steve should get a few more CH (launcher or not), but he's so annoying to fight, he's like a Hwoarang but safer (and not launching that much).
I think that, if he was a little bit less evasive while having more CH utility, he's be less annoying to fight.
Steve in Tekken 8 is just so weird, I prefer both Steve and Jin from Tekken 7 than those abominations we have.
Lidia, Paul, Kazuya and so many others got such an amazing reworks, while a few others are just... so stupid who does everything (like Jin) or does nothing (like Steve, even tho he's extremely annoying, to me).
I will stop complaining if they bring back the full combo from df2
Revert back to Tekken 6 Steve.
Jesus i thought devil jin was bad...
they could've given him the old rage drive launcher with heat sonic fang OR the ability to transition into ducking after sonic fang when in heat
but nooo he gotta shuffle like Ali do. except Ali does that to dodge hits.
plus the fact that Yoshimitsu can literally FLASH all options including the duck cancel so you either have to not commit or weave instead.
Not to mention they also gave him imo the most obnoxious and worst voice revamp out of the entire cast.
In his interaction with hwoarang, he literally says, "You talk too much" MEANWHILE, Hwoarang barely talks at all, and Steve keeps going "Bullseye, Smash, Upper, uppercut, THAT'S A KNOCKOUT, No more playing around, It's over" and more. He's so obnoxious. Unironically t7 was better for his voice.
He needs buffs to his lows and overall damage and give him back all his counter hits
his lows are ok, he is supposed to have shitty lows, the problem is that they left only one useful counter hit (b1 and btw now it's 14f WTF)
@@phaus5815nah they could look at Balrog from SFv & ed with a flicker low from sf6 which is absolutely sick...they could easily br creative and give him something similar.
Truth is steve isnt king of counters anymore. He is the king of grabs 😂. His heat, b3 1+2, peekaboo, etc his setups is now reliant on other tools than just counters
I think they did great job with all the characters and moves. A lot of the inputs were too complicated and some moves were usless. It’s less combo heavy like the last game. Which was really good.
Steve is just Counter Punching B1. That is it b. Lee is the best CH character include since T7
bryan is also way better, even king is a better ch char
They dont watch the video or have any idea on what theyre talking about.. Theyre just..talking...@@tristanherb49
I just get a feeling devs cant comprehend how steve works in their own game, its just obvious that toolkit EVERY character has should have tools that compliment each other.. Steve's whole pkb stance is fucking pointless rn since holding "b" is enough to mitigate any threat while in t7 you could go for various mindgames if ur opponent respects pkb pressure u could go ducking and threat a ws2 ch launch or another timing based mixup or a simple fcdf1 that will eventually add up, if ur opponent respects pkb and duck pressure you could go ext duck and threaten a guardbreak into ws12 or mid launch, my man had LAYERS ON LAYERS of mindgames, now you just literally hold "b" and win against this abomination of a character
Good content yarrr keep doing
And nerf his voice and his face and his iconic costume 😢💔
I think it would be cool if they brought back ws2 ch but gave it the same properties that b1 has with b1,2. So ws2 on its own ch launches and ws 2,2 string is left as is
Same thing happened with Lee and his wall carry unfortunately
talk about that kings low
At first i was like makes sense steve sonic fang doesnt launch i mean 14 frame mid. But then i remember raven 1+2 which is exactly that😂
imo lee is the true counterhit king considering he is the only character with a true magic 4 outside heat
He also has a 42 damage, 12f low counter hit string that goes into heat, a 50 damage 10 frame hit confirmable string that does half health at the wall, and of course B4, D3, amongst other things.
Exactly. Steve was never known for his CH game, that was always Lee’s identity. Just like how Hwoarang is known as king of Pokes. King is known as King of Grabs, Anna known as Queen of 50/50s, etc… Because they were the best at what they do until T7 slowly started to change that and make them all alike.
@@since2133you really just said Steve was never known for his counter hit game when the only moves people used at high level were b1 and df2.
@@LeiChaobruh that became a thing in T7 or Tag2. Before that he was known for best punishers and being too hard to punish.
@@since2133 When has Steve ever had the best punishers? Even in T5 I don't recall
Tekken 8 is my first real foray into the series, and while I have fun with Steve, I gotta say this is pretty disheartening to see how much stronger and capable he was in T7
If they want to change steve from a CH character to a stance mixup character fine, but at least buff his lows and revert sonic fang back to the way it was in T7 and I wouldn't complain as much