nice practial approach to something that often gets muddied by hippy nonsense or people using impossible to disprove suggestions to cover their lack of skill!
[0:25] “I’m meeting him with a little bit energy. And call it Ki if you want, call it muscular tension if you want, or enlightenment in my body.” Oki-doki, that’s a fine way of introducing the topic of “extending Ki.” Ideally you want just the right level of energy rather than “a little bit.” This is sensed visually before contact, and proprioceptively after contact. This can be equated with getting and keeping the ‘muscle tension’ at just the right level, for the purposes of the technique: Having the motor system correctly tune the muscle tension at the right level between: as lax as a wet noodle -&- as rigid as possible. “enlightenment in my body” is a clever expression that I haven’t heard before. In Ki-Aikido ‘Ki extension’ is closely related to maintaining ‘mind-body coordination’ which in my view boils down to trusting one’s unconscious control over your low-level body dynamics enough to LET it manage the details, while you consciously direct the overall technique. A basic approach to Zen meditation is to LET go of one’s conscious attachments in order to become aware of what the less discriminating/judgmental unconscious mind sees/perceives. So, in this sense, mind-body coordination (Ki extension) could be considered analogous to a more ‘enlightened’ state of mind.
thing is, there is zero evidence ki exists, and zero agreement on what Ki actually is, so breaking it down like this into measurable biomechanical processes I think is a good idea surely? Really like your idea of framing the concept of Ki as being a mindset though, "intention" for me is the nearest semantic I think.
@@nikosskeptikos6295 You are right that the term ‘Ki’ (Chi, Qi) has all too many different definitions. It is questionable as to how the Chi channels used in acupuncture have to do with the Chi applied in Tai-Chi (much less Aikido). In the Aikido community the Ki-Aikido school is most strongly associated with the use of Ki and ‘extending Ki.’ Yet it might turn out to be a misnomer! Let me explain. Koichi Tohei Sensei (1920-2011) founded what is widely known as “Ki-Aikido”, but its proper name in Japan is ‘Shinshin-tōitsu-aikidō’, which actually means ‘Aikido with mind-body coordination.’ Now you can see why so many Ki-Aikido practitioners (including myself) associate the term ‘Ki’ with ‘mind-body coordination.’ Now I will explain how this happened. Tohei Sensei was strongly influenced by two great teachers: Osensei Morihei Ueshiba (1883-1969) the founder of Aikido, and Tempu Nakamura (1876-1968) the founder of ‘Shinshin-tōitsu-dō.’ Tempu Nakamura is a very interesting character; you can read about him in the excellent book “Heaven's Wind” by Stephen Earle. Tempu was a master of battojutsu, a classical Japanese sword fighting technique. He served as a spy during the Russo-Japanese War; obtained a medical degree from Columbia University; and had an enlightenment experience meditating in foothills of the Himalayas. Tempu founded ‘Shinshin-tōitsu-dō’ (the way of mind and body unification) after he returned to Japan, and Tohei was one of his students. Tohei Sensei then incorporated these teachings into the way he taught Aikido and called it ‘Shinshin-tōitsu-aikidō’ in Japanese and Ki-Aikido in English. However, Tohei Sensei also studied Zen Buddhism and Shinto, so he’s used the term ‘Ki’ rather fluidly and has presented some esoteric definitions of Ki. So not all Ki-Aikido people would agree with me when I equate ‘Ki’ with ‘mind-body coordination.’
@@JimTempleman And therein lies the problem - how can we even discuss something that has not agreed upon definition, let alone proof of existence. It's ludicrous. For my money we should stick to biomechanical explanations and directly reproduceable emotional content.
@@nikosskeptikos6295 That’s like saying that physicists should not be allowed to use the term ‘energy’ because the term is widely used in other ways (e.g., energy drinks). Ki-Aikido is the Aikido school that uses the term most extensively. They generally use it to mean: ‘mind-body coordination.’ They have specific ways of measuring it, called Ki-testing, which is repeatable and provides a graduated measure. There are even various tests and ranks given for what they call “Ki-development.” In the field of mechanical engineering there is: statics, kinematics (movement without forces), dynamics (movement with forces), and control theory (which will soon be subsumed by neural network-based AI). Biomechanical explanations tend to be rather crude, because it turns out to be rather difficult to capture the data you really need. For example, how do you measure the compliance of muscle groups in real time? (That’s what makes unbendable-arm work.) What you’d really like to study is neuromuscular control. And right now, Ki-tests provide a way of doing that. Granted it only provides a lumped-sum performance, and it deals with limited aspects of performance like unbendable-arm. But it does provide the necessary immediate feedback needed to quicky learn how to improve motor control, in a way that refines their Aikido.
@@JimTempleman Tis is an interesting discussion and one of the reasons I love this channel! for me the most important aspect of MY visualization /conceptualization of "ki" is the metal state, and I suspect that is different and personal for everyone, which again makes it almost impossible to teach or even refer to apart from in vagaries.
@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE "When O’ Sensei referred to ‘extending ki’ this means take offensive, this is to attack. We try not to think in term of attack/defense but really technique is to kill.” from a discussion with Sensei Seiichi Sugano in 2007 when I was his otomo at his Global Inner Aikido Seminar.
[Full discussion: Sugano Sensei: “There is a contradiction (in Aikido) between philosophy and practice. Philosophy is harmony. Practice is defined in terms of attack/defense. (One) must go beyond these terms to find the philosophy. Brian Ericksen: “How does one find that harmony though, Sensei? When I returned from Iraq and someone resisted or fought I felt such anger. Several times I had to stop myself from moving to badly hurt or kill them. After having seen war I returned to Aikido to practice life and not death. I feel frustration when I see people abusing the art by resisting, fighting.” SS- Aikido is large circle. If you point at one place in the circle and say ‘this is Aikido’ you miss rest. War is one thing. Aikido is something else. In Aikido as in life there is conflict and this is part of training. Aikido is about making the life better but it is not purely about one thing and not another. There is no pure life. Practice is about making balance. Wartime experience is you. Hurting and killing is easy. Making practice sometimes hard with difficult partner. (Laughing) If you try and partner still resist can still kill if want! (Suddenly serious) When O’ Sensei referred to ‘extending ki’ this means take offensive, this is to attack. We try not to think in term of attack/defense but really technique is to kill.”]
@@brianericksen4700 I see and thank you, but that's just one person's impression, I spent a while looking through sources and couldnt find anything to say o sensei believed that "To extend ki" meant to kill someone, still unconvinced, but appreciate your effort my friend!
@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE The understanding of one of O Sensei's uchi deshi of what the Founder meant by the term extending ki might perhaps bear some consideration but as you will. Aikido is love. It is budo as well. Made from war and for war if needed. Sugano Sensei's explanation gives voice to Aikido's martial aspect. This should be preserved along with other understandings of what the Founder meant by the term. So I preserve it.
Clyde is always good value.
A lot to unpack here, but nice to see someone trying to demystify one of my pet peeves in Aikido.
my old sensei used to refer to this as "expansion" which like as it suggests a relaxed but controlled entry
grat session from Clyde once again big shout out to Musubi Ryu dojo
nice practial approach to something that often gets muddied by hippy nonsense or people using impossible to disprove suggestions to cover their lack of skill!
Creating a confluence of combined energies, which needn't be equal in terms of their flux.
confluence. using that!
I have unequal confluence in my flux this morning, i think it was the lentil curry
[0:25] “I’m meeting him with a little bit energy. And call it Ki if you want,
call it muscular tension if you want, or enlightenment in my body.”
Oki-doki, that’s a fine way of introducing the topic of “extending Ki.”
Ideally you want just the right level of energy rather than “a little bit.” This is sensed visually before contact, and proprioceptively after contact.
This can be equated with getting and keeping the ‘muscle tension’ at just the right level, for the purposes of the technique: Having the motor system correctly tune the muscle tension at the right level between: as lax as a wet noodle -&- as rigid as possible.
“enlightenment in my body” is a clever expression that I haven’t heard before.
In Ki-Aikido ‘Ki extension’ is closely related to maintaining ‘mind-body coordination’ which in my view boils down to trusting one’s unconscious control over your low-level body dynamics enough to LET it manage the details, while you consciously direct the overall technique.
A basic approach to Zen meditation is to LET go of one’s conscious attachments in order to become aware of what the less discriminating/judgmental unconscious mind sees/perceives. So, in this sense, mind-body coordination (Ki extension) could be considered analogous to a more ‘enlightened’ state of mind.
thing is, there is zero evidence ki exists, and zero agreement on what Ki actually is, so breaking it down like this into measurable biomechanical processes I think is a good idea surely? Really like your idea of framing the concept of Ki as being a mindset though, "intention" for me is the nearest semantic I think.
@@nikosskeptikos6295 You are right that the term ‘Ki’ (Chi, Qi) has all too many different definitions. It is questionable as to how the Chi channels used in acupuncture have to do with the Chi applied in Tai-Chi (much less Aikido).
In the Aikido community the Ki-Aikido school is most strongly associated with the use of Ki and ‘extending Ki.’ Yet it might turn out to be a misnomer! Let me explain.
Koichi Tohei Sensei (1920-2011) founded what is widely known as “Ki-Aikido”, but its proper name in Japan is ‘Shinshin-tōitsu-aikidō’, which actually means ‘Aikido with mind-body coordination.’ Now you can see why so many Ki-Aikido practitioners (including myself) associate the term ‘Ki’ with ‘mind-body coordination.’
Now I will explain how this happened. Tohei Sensei was strongly influenced by two great teachers: Osensei Morihei Ueshiba (1883-1969) the founder of Aikido, and Tempu Nakamura (1876-1968) the founder of ‘Shinshin-tōitsu-dō.’
Tempu Nakamura is a very interesting character; you can read about him in the excellent book “Heaven's Wind” by Stephen Earle. Tempu was a master of battojutsu, a classical Japanese sword fighting technique. He served as a spy during the Russo-Japanese War; obtained a medical degree from Columbia University; and had an enlightenment experience meditating in foothills of the Himalayas. Tempu founded ‘Shinshin-tōitsu-dō’ (the way of mind and body unification) after he returned to Japan, and Tohei was one of his students. Tohei Sensei then incorporated these teachings into the way he taught Aikido and called it ‘Shinshin-tōitsu-aikidō’ in Japanese and Ki-Aikido in English.
However, Tohei Sensei also studied Zen Buddhism and Shinto, so he’s used the term ‘Ki’ rather fluidly and has presented some esoteric definitions of Ki. So not all Ki-Aikido people would agree with me when I equate ‘Ki’ with ‘mind-body coordination.’
@@JimTempleman And therein lies the problem - how can we even discuss something that has not agreed upon definition, let alone proof of existence. It's ludicrous. For my money we should stick to biomechanical explanations and directly reproduceable emotional content.
@@nikosskeptikos6295 That’s like saying that physicists should not be allowed to use the term ‘energy’ because the term is widely used in other ways (e.g., energy drinks).
Ki-Aikido is the Aikido school that uses the term most extensively. They generally use it to mean: ‘mind-body coordination.’ They have specific ways of measuring it, called Ki-testing, which is repeatable and provides a graduated measure. There are even various tests and ranks given for what they call “Ki-development.”
In the field of mechanical engineering there is: statics, kinematics (movement without forces), dynamics (movement with forces), and control theory (which will soon be subsumed by neural network-based AI).
Biomechanical explanations tend to be rather crude, because it turns out to be rather difficult to capture the data you really need. For example, how do you measure the compliance of muscle groups in real time? (That’s what makes unbendable-arm work.) What you’d really like to study is neuromuscular control. And right now, Ki-tests provide a way of doing that. Granted it only provides a lumped-sum performance, and it deals with limited aspects of performance like unbendable-arm. But it does provide the necessary immediate feedback needed to quicky learn how to improve motor control, in a way that refines their Aikido.
@@JimTempleman Tis is an interesting discussion and one of the reasons I love this channel! for me the most important aspect of MY visualization /conceptualization of "ki" is the metal state, and I suspect that is different and personal for everyone, which again makes it almost impossible to teach or even refer to apart from in vagaries.
👍👍
Poor clyde picked the most awkward person on the mat for this too lol
When O' Sensei talked about "extending ki" this was universally understood to mean to kill the other.
Really? Interesting. What evidence do you have for that? I've never heard that before. Link?
@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE
"When O’ Sensei referred to ‘extending ki’ this means take offensive, this is to attack. We try not to think in term of attack/defense but really technique is to kill.” from a discussion with Sensei Seiichi Sugano in 2007 when I was his otomo at his Global Inner Aikido Seminar.
[Full discussion:
Sugano Sensei: “There is a contradiction (in Aikido) between philosophy and practice. Philosophy is harmony. Practice is defined in terms of attack/defense. (One) must go beyond these terms to find the philosophy.
Brian Ericksen: “How does one find that harmony though, Sensei? When I returned from Iraq and someone resisted or fought I felt such anger. Several times I had to stop myself from moving to badly hurt or kill them. After having seen war I returned to Aikido to practice life and not death. I feel frustration when I see people abusing the art by resisting, fighting.”
SS- Aikido is large circle. If you point at one place in the circle and say ‘this is Aikido’ you miss rest. War is one thing. Aikido is something else. In Aikido as in life there is conflict and this is part of training. Aikido is about making the life better but it is not purely about one thing and not another. There is no pure life. Practice is about making balance. Wartime experience is you. Hurting and killing is easy. Making practice sometimes hard with difficult partner.
(Laughing) If you try and partner still resist can still kill if want!
(Suddenly serious) When O’ Sensei referred to ‘extending ki’ this means take offensive, this is to attack. We try not to think in term of attack/defense but really technique is to kill.”]
@@brianericksen4700 I see and thank you, but that's just one person's impression, I spent a while looking through sources and couldnt find anything to say o sensei believed that "To extend ki" meant to kill someone, still unconvinced, but appreciate your effort my friend!
@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE The understanding of one of O Sensei's uchi deshi of what the Founder meant by the term extending ki might perhaps bear some consideration but as you will. Aikido is love. It is budo as well. Made from war and for war if needed. Sugano Sensei's explanation gives voice to Aikido's martial aspect. This should be preserved along with other understandings of what the Founder meant by the term. So I preserve it.