@@Krescentwolf In FFXI Carbuncle was a regular DPS hitter and used Searing Light for a powerful AoE nuke during Astral Flow every 2 hours (later shortened to 1hr). Also one of the few 'permanent' summons you could have out.
My hopes for future Summoner changes is during the Phoenix phase, rather than summoning Ifrit, Garuda and Titan again, we summon Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva, each bringing their own uniqueness. Would be a cool way to do it and then if they do add an Alexander phase after Phoenix then in the future they can add an additional 3 summons after Alexander phase.
I totally agree. It would have been great to have Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva after summoning Phoenix. Just having Titan, Ifrit, & Garuda is kind of meh, at least for me.
@@TheSattocs I mean they are primals, people are allowed to have their preferences and there's nothing illogical about Summoner harnessing them. Though as for which primals make more thematical sense for Summoner? I definitely agree that it should be Shiva, Leviathan, and Ramuh.
@@TheSattocs Because Summoning is an Allagan art (and people summoning sephirot egis is part of the job quests) and the warring triad have very nice counterparts with the three we currently have (ifrit -> zurvan, garuda -> sophia, titan -> sephirot).
Rather than Alexander in the future, I would personally love to see post-phoenix phase replace ruby-ifrit, emerald-garuda and topaz-titan with sapphire-leviathan, amethyst-ramuh and diamond-shiva. This way you could have the entire list of ARR classic summons at your arsenal. As for carbuncle. He is now delegated to being the best and cuddliest math homework you've ever had, which is more than fine by me. I've thoroughly enjoyed the new summoner, but do agree, it could use a small numbers buff somewhere. Sometimes, simple isn't bad. But then, for me it does carry a lot on aesthetics alone.
"It's a good clean slate to have." That's exactly it. Summoner has been revamped and remade more than any other job. They haven't had time to build on the solid base before now. And i think they've finally achieved that solid base to work from. Maybe they can throw in more OGCDs like a single use 'summon Susano to slam his sword down' kind of thing to help pad out the admitted limited rotation. Would go a long way to add something else to the 'summon->dump->summon-dump' rotation.
Honestly I wish they cut down on the instant casts, maybe only instants for the Demis, higher damage and then they could do what you said, like attacks from other summons as oGCDs, or even procs, reminiscent of BLM, like you proc on Ifrit and get an instant Shiva attack or something like that, that would be so cool IMO. It's so close to being great.
@@mismismism I'm actually fine with the rites as they are. I would like to see long cast times added to the summons. I'd be okay with 3~4 second cast if they gave it the potency to make up for the gcd clips. *spoiler* Summoning magic is creation magic which we know takes absolute concentration and mental clarity. Lore wise it would make sense for them to have long cast times. Summoners also should feel vulnerable when swapping pets/summoning. It'd also give back a bit of its complexity since, unlike blm, they don't have mana wall to protect them from not moving.
I agree 100%, it would be great to have ogcd's based on previously fought primals! Maybe that there'll be an element of choice in the summoners rotation. Like maybe Lakshmi gives support, while susano deals massive damage or alexander gives like a party wide speel speed buff or something, there are so many opportunieties and I hope they'll grasp at least one.
@@Yadamane Yeah, it's a little weird that they feel like a phys ranged basically. Right now BRD has higher DPS than SMN and that's very weird, I think they need to get a bit away from constant mobility and more into casting at least some of the summon attacks with higher potency, I think SMN needs to be somewhere between BLM and RDM for it to feel right with how epic the visuals are.
I like how the fact we can now summon the big primals at 90 is explained in the MSQ right before the final zone, with the non-tempering summoning we learn then.
It's all well and good but a ton of the tactical side of SMN died with DoTs being removed. And the constand slow spells from Ifrit and to awkward rush down atks with no way to quickly retreat piss me off. I play mage to fight from a distance. IMO garuda and Titan are fine but Ifrit is laughable. I have fun with the class more than MCH or other mages. But it's not the class I loved. I want at least Bio and Bane back.
@@kokayinewsome9308 I have pretty much the exact opposit view. I hated the dots. Forgetable at the best of times and annoying everywhere else. Adding nothing to the summoner fantasy and had almost no synergy with the rest of the job. Ifrit is also my favorit. It's infused skill is one of the only impressions of skill left in the job, as it is a gap closer you can hold for a while and use at a good or bad time. Garuda also has a bit of this, but with a long cast time instead. Titan on the other hand is the same always. There is no thought at all on how to use your rotation, no matter the situation. The range thing I dont understand. I don't play SMN to play mage. BLM is much more a traditional mage in that regard. I play SMN to summon stuff, the more like the classic class the better, with big over the top attacks, which is pretty much exactly as it is now. Now we ""just" need some more depth in the future and I'm golden
@@Elidan1012 I hear a lot of people want DoTs gone except from BRD. But I used to to still do dmg even when I have to run for my life. Bosses and swarms will often chase you with atks or crazy shit and you cant get a hit in. Not even a quick one. But have a DoT on them and you're still doing dmg even as you run. Ifrit right now gets on my nerves so much I honestly dont like using him and have considered just using Titan, garuda minus slipstream, and fester or pain flare to make up for Ifrit gone. I honestly think Square has tried hard to make a class most people will like with new MNK and SMN. But I'm not totally into it. But I'll remain loyal to it until they add in faster range classes or mages or more pet classes or better dot classes that can spread and single target with DoTs with being slow like BLM.
As a SMN main for 8 years, my issue with the current iteration other than “too simple” is there’s really no build up in the rotation. It hardly has any oGCDs, I don’t think 3 aether flow stacks make sense when everything else comes in threes. The Ruin IV mechanic is kind of strange…It feels like this is how it should play at level 70 or 80, but yes - aesthetically fantastic.
To be fair, that is basically what it is. Current SMN is basically the lv60/70 baseline for the job they can build on going forward. One could argue it's currently lacking in comparison to other jobs, but the rework did achieve it's goal; giving SMN a solid new foundation to be built upon.
Arguably, I like the no build up. Every other job has some sort of build up to its burst, but Summoner is just like, "Press my big Summon and I'm now in my burst phase." I find it to be a nice change compared to every other job that requires varying amounts of set up before they can effectively burst.
I’m really liking where SMN is headed, but I think they need to do something with Fester and Painflare. Now that there’s no more DoTs, the abilities are just kind of there.
If Phoenix had a fire dot the job would be PERFECT. Now we have this healing skill that is not bad but feels like it takes the space of a damage spell.
Plenty of it is just psychological, but I had a lot more fun with Smn at level 79 than 80. From level 60-79 Smn is great. Your Dreadwyrm Trance phase is just so much damage, and it just gets better when you can Summon Bahamut at 70 and then Enkidle him for another huge explosion. But then you hit level 80, and instead of summoning Bahamut every minute, you summon him every 2. And Phoenix's explosions aren't so big and exciting. And you quite literally see your kit take a dps loss, because your Deathflare becomes a heal instead. It's really depressing. IMO, they need to switch the position of summon phoenix/bahamut. If you learned Pheonix at level 70, it would still be a really nice buff to Dreadwyrm Trance, because you'd go from having Deathflare to having a stronger Enkindle, plus autos from Phoenix, plus a utility heal. THEN when you hit 80, your heal would go back to being a dps spell, so you'd have two huge blasts. The progression would just be so, so, so, SO much better than it is now. Because hitting level 80 and realizing I just took a dps loss felt really bad. Especially when it's replaced with a heal I have a really narrow window to use, so my ability to strategically time it is so low. Because I'm actually pro utility skills on DPS - love my Dancer's heal/shield, and I usually play tanks/healers. But the Phoenix heal feels bad with you having 12 seconds to use it, very 2 minutes, and no ability to bank it.
@@Alex-ks3uu For real, Rekindle sucks. I just put it on a tank whenever it’s up even if their HP isn’t low. Who thought that giving us a heal during our 12 second burst window was a good idea…? It fits thematically with what Phoenix does yes, but it just feels bad. Imagine if on Red Mage, you couldn’t use Vercure until you had 80 white and black mana. It’d be ridiculous because you want to be doing other things during that to maximize DPS. (Granted Vercure is still a DPS lose and only something you’d use if you’re progging or your healers die, but point still stands). If they want to give Summoner healing utility to make it compete with Red Mage, how about actually making Physick useful since they so stubbornly insist on having us keep that worthless spell for some reason? Hell, put in a trait that makes Physick UPGRADE to Rekindle, then maybe the Phoenix phase wouldn’t feel as bad and we could replace Rekindle with something actually worth our “big DPS phase”?
They could add quests to give the SMN the ability to summon other things that would essentially “glam” over one of the main summons such as diablos for titan or Alexander for bahamut just an idea
People have been asking for new summons since 2.0. I doubt it’ll ever happen now. The most I can pray for is new ego’s to glam over Carbuncle, now that it basically does next to nothing.
@@tlatia6072 Now that htey have an entirely new solid base to use, it would be such an error to NOT add more summons or AT LEAST more glams, like a new 3 rotation phase with Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva for example or something like that
I feel they simplified summoner too much, lile they're planning to add more things in future expantions. I actually liked the busy mess than summoner was before, it was really satisfying to play it well
I don't think there is anything in SE track record to validate this. Healers Drk Mch All with glaring issues that SE refuse to fix. I mean really...what did they get in this expansion? Especially MCH and DRK
@@somnus970 SE sees a job with some jank and flavor, and instead of doing anything better with it, they immediately give up. I thoroughly enjoyed MCH before shb and ew and have been incredibly bored with it since its rework. stormblood mch was genuinely fine, just took someone with more than half a brain to understand it.
I have been summoner main since I started several years ago and I kinda miss the old more complicated busy finger version with dots. I love the aesthetic of new version and that it feels more powerful. It would be fun to see more primals summoned in the future. Only issue that I have is that I hate that the spell effects are soooo big that I can't see anything. I've been ko'd so many times just because I didn't see aoe underneath me. With smaller screen size (small summon size too obviously) the effects are just too much. I want to see some of my effects to "feel the power" but the "limited" from the options is so little that it's barely there. I wish, there would be middle option between full and limited.
It's still possible to ghost Carbuncle actions, namely Searing Light right before going into Demi summon phase (Bahamut). I do appreciate making the job more about Summoning and not at all having to stress about DoT awareness/uptime. Gem/Brilliance basically replace your Egi Assault buttons (sort of) and you don't have to worry about capping on either Charges nor overcapping/wasting Ruin IV stacks because you used an EA before using an R4. It got rid of the boring R3 filler phase and hardcasting your dots once per 2min rotation, and Astral Flow keeps the job busy enough. I definitely think this rework is exactly what was needed. The Fantasy of the job is kinda the point when you want to play a job, just like choosing which DnD class.
I was losing my mind that no one has talked about this i felt like i was being gaslighted. Love this video and how you empathized with the old SMN mains TY!
I just feel so disattached from my summons now, which made me lose all interest in SMN after maining it during SHB. Carbuncle does nothing, Bahamut/Phoenix are on autopilot and don't do something after every GCD now. Before, it felt like you were working with your summons and were a team. Not anymore...
Been playing SMN since 2.0 and I feel like I've lost that 'identity' that Mr. Happy spoke of. It's too simplified. I don't feel like I'm doing much of anything, and it feels slower (to me at least). Carby, good bean that he is, is just...there. not doing anything. I am happy that Titan is USEFUL again but other than that, I'm not vibing with this new take on SMN.
Yeah me too! I had the headcanon that the summoner was summoning the "good" Primals in that final fight, and was really cool to see such iconic figures in the story helping us out.
@@CanadianYeti69 I will be honest, at first I thought it was just part of the fight mechanics! I only realized that after I went in again with a no smn in party "Oh yeah, SMN has that new summons!" Still, like you said, it was so epics because I thought it was like you said "Good" Primals, lol.
I kept going back and thinking that I was missing something when I was playing smn. I thought it was way too simple. Eventually it came to mind that you're given like 30 seconds on each summon to spam those skills, I figured they'd make you weave ruin 3 between each summon cast to buff the damage. But I am enjoying it for what it's worth. It's my roulette running job.
I honestly dont see where they can go with the class now. No dots. So what else is there other than adding in more summons and changing their aether flow atks to be cone or column shaped AoEs. But that's it. Each expansion would just be getting 1 new summon. I'm loyal to the class since I played it since HW. But I want more than just new summons and starting a fight with Bahamut and a hyper slow set of atks sprinkled in. I could take Ifrit off my hot bar altogether and play SMN even faster. Which i might do because i like my speed.
I think maybe something like phoenix applying a burning dot that stacks up to 3 and lasts 15 seconds with the single target attack, and that you could refresh with fester perhaps. would alleviate some of the weakness of phoenix phase, preserve some damage over time identity, and give the job a higher skill ceiling
I'm in the camp of people that liked summoner before. My favorite iteration was stormblood. The biggest reason I picked up the job was that it was considered to be one of, if not the hardest job. I also miss bio and miasma. I know a lot of people didn't like the dots. But for me it was something I needed to keep track of. Adding another level of difficulty where I need to stay focused or my DPS would suffer. I LOVED the job skill trailer for it in endwalker. It was litterally everything I wanted to see out of the job. And then I heard that DoTs were gone, and I unfortunately quickly got disappointed in the job.
Clean slate is exactly the way I feel about it, it's a solid base for them to build upon going forward. I'd expect the removal of aetherflow potentially in the future since it's just kind of tacked on nowadays and next expansion I see the most likely addition being Shiva, Ramuh, and Leviathan replacing Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan after Phoenix the same way Phoenix replaces Bahamut every other minute. I'm sure there would be other changes as well but I expect the basic rotation to be Bahamut---Ifrit/Garuda/Titan----Phoenix----Shiva/Ramuh/Leviathan-----Bahamut and so on.
@@Dharengo like I said, it's a good base. I expect them to replace aetherflow with something a bit more complex. The additional summons are a given but not the only thing I'd expect
@@mikev8551 "It's a good base", "they will surely build upon it in 6.0" is the exact stuff people defending DRK and MCH reworks said and look at them now. Have fun with AoE version of Ruin IV and a second charge on the Phoenix regen as your 7.0 "additions". Maybe "new" summons in post-Phoenix phase, which play exactly the same as current but look different, because all flash, no substance is basically the job's identity now.
@@Dharengo No other DPS has a puzzle to solve. Every DPS is literally "Follow your 123 rotation". Sometimes there is a second "123" rotation. But its basically the same thing. None of the jobs are complicated, its just a question of if you can press the buttons in the correct order fast enough and how comfortable that is for you.
DEMI ALEXANDER!!!! YES!!! Also, a blue or purple gem feels like an easy expansion of things as well. More gems but the same windows between Demis so you have to be more tactical about the summons you use would be interesting
I think keeping the window just like it is but adding more gems would be great. I get whiplash every time I get to that ifrit hardcast. It's not a problem with ifrit per se it's that it doesn't feel like it fits. It'd be better if you had multiple high dps hard cast summons and a few weaker ones with instant casts. instead of each summon does single and AOE dps there's 3 single target and 3 AOE that play different.
I really like the simplicity of the class but I do wish there was a bit of room for expression in the rotation. The other casters all have times where skillful play and opportunity converge to create a moment where it feels like you just nailed it. Because the SMN rotation is so linear (other than the order of summons) I don't get the same level of satisfaction from playing it...but I can actually play it well, consistently.
Can you elaborate? Black mage is whole heartedly linear. Spend as much as in fire phase as possible with no exceptions. Red Mage is has the option to continue to store mana I suppose Summoner is easily more flexible than either currently, giving you the option of when and where you want to place your 2 hard cast gcds as slipstream is always best with swiftcast.
@@PH03NIX96 @PH03NIX96 you're still doing the same thing with each summon tho, lol. RDM/BLM, like every job, have a linear rotation yes, but you have so many other buttons to press, that you don't feel it. Comparing two BLMs, their rotation has the potential to look different, as OP said, this allows for expression and shows how /you/ play the job. They have the general idea if how the job should function, different execution. That's fun, it allows for player expression, optimal or not. New SMN is very bare bones, that ngl, it doesn't /feel/ like the others in that senses. Plenty of the satisfaction comes from its visuals, mechanically, new SMN feels lacking compared to the others. If you compared two SMNs, the only difference I feel like you're going to find is the order of summons they use. As said, it's a great start, but leaves a lot to be desired.
I can understand where you are coming from...But the summon rotation isn't strictly linear. What you do with them depends on situation and even party makeup. Default, you want to use Titan right after Bahamut, if you have Searing Light at least, for more potency...But with some party makeups, Garuda fits better. Ifrit is a free-space, you throw him out when you either need to rush to the boss for a stack, need the space of a swiftcast Ruby Rite but not as much as Titan or Garuda...Rekindle is useful if you're watching party HPs and your healers know you can toss it on people. Mine tend to loosen up a bit when they know Phoenix is on the way because they know Bahamut > three Primals > Phoenix and the timing is predictable. ShB SMN was so much more rigid on top of having these weird, esoteric things you had to do for max damage: burn DWT immediately, use DWT if it was up on downtime even though you had no target, hold Ruin IVs specifically for Bahamut phase because you want the instant casts for more Wyrmwaves, hold swiftcast for the same reason. I enjoyed playing it because I enjoyed the visuals, I enjoyed and still enjoy the feeling of calling forth these powerful simulacrums of Primals, but make no mistake...Summoner wasn't hard before. It was needlessly complicated by mechanics that did not fit together. And as made by PHOENIX, the other casters aren't any less "linear" in what they do: Red Mage is even simpler and always has been. It's Jolt/Proc, lower mana spell/same mana if double proc, burn oGCDs, and Melee Combo with enough mana. Repeat. Black Mage is B4, Paradox, Fire phase, six Fire IVs, TC use, Xeno use. Despair. Repeat.
@@TransientWitch red mage has fleche/c6 drift (and by extension dualcast window management) to worry about, as well as pooling resources into a potential double melee combo under embolden for optimization, on top of minimizing proc waste and planning instants/melee combos around movement arguably red mage has gotten more complex now that dualcast window management is actually something you have to worry about black mage has weird and wacky optimizations like transpose lines or other risky lines that cut out low damage spells, planning instants around movement, and maximizing ley lines uptime based on the encounter not to say new summoner also doesn't have skill expression, where you use ruby rite/slipstream matters and you can mitigate one of the cast times of ruby rite with swiftcast for a minor dps gain. but it does feel like it has significantly less potential for skill expression than the other two casters, and the fact that summoner is pretty much a glorified physical ranged doesn't help
I love the changes. Its what most people have been asking for, for a very long time. I levelled it after reaper and immediately noticed it's simplicity compared to its previous iteration and since I've been levelling RDM next, it clearly the new newbie caster job. RDM has gotten a few more things to care about now. Moving forward I think SMN needs that "sweet spot" that most other jobs have when they are played well. Lining up 2 melee combos in RDM for example or Reaper having consecutive Enshrouded phases.
That damage buff is very very necessary at this point. I got out damaged by every dps last night in the 2nd extreme trial, despite having almost perfect uptime and no deaths. I understand, SMN has some party support too, but so does RDM. And RDM is absolutely terrifying in the damage department right now. That being said, super excited for the potential egi glamours!
Rdm damage is fine, they are slightly ahead of Smn in terms of Rdps, a 95 percentile Rdm and a 95 percentile Smn are extremely close. Ive been playing Smn and i'm just not seeing this "low damage" people are talking about.
@@eleanorgreywolfe5142 on Average SMN is just above BRD on the DPS charts and 3rd lowest overall. MCH, DRG and NIN are between SMN and RDM on Average RDPS
It definitely really sucks for the old SMN mains, particularly those who loved the class for its complexity. My static's SMN was one of such individuals, and he's very disappointed and trying to find a different job to play. I think the visuals are amazing, but I also feel that if a job is getting reworked, it should be reworked with the *current* people who love the job in mind, not in trying to make it more appealing to those who weren't interested in it in the first place.
I disagree. The goal is always to make a job more appealing to a larger portion of players. Summoners were already a lesser played job, and if Summoner hadn't been topping DPS charts I can promise you it would have been played even less. Trying to only appeal to those who prefer complexity and/or power for endgame content is going to get nobody anywhere. You'll never be able to please everyone, so you should try to please the largest audience you can. And that's not even getting into the fact that historically, XIV's summoner was never really like a Summoner, even in Shadowbringers.
@@Joshua-xh6bm I disagree. There's way too many DPS jobs at this point, there are already plenty for those who are looking for an easy mindless job. In comparison there are almost none which reward being a more mindful about your gameplay. BLM and PLD are probably the closest to that. You're trying to look at the job in a vacuum when it doesn't really make sense. Trying to make every single job appeal to the lowest common denominator only leads to further homogenisation of jobs that was already bad enough in Shadowbringers. I also think that this hang-up on what a SMN is, is just plain weird. Nobody complains that DRK uses MP instead HP, nobody complains that SGE isn't a wizard in robes like Tellah was, nobody complains that DRG in this game is nothing like DRG in every Final Fantasy game ever, where you could Jump to completely avoid damage. Whatever they choose to port over from older FF games, is quite frankly arbitrary and meaningless, and as they showed with SGE, they can make whatever class have whatever aesthetic or gameplay they want.
@@Joshua-xh6bm Why do we need to make EVERY class appeal to the audience? Is it really that bad to have ONE complex job? Even then, it was never that hard to grasp. Just read your kit.
The fact that the Big Summons only kick in at 90 also doesn't help it feel less boring earlier on, or any time you're synced down. The current version feels very much like a first draft that was pushed live without much, if any, testing.
"Bigger pets means bigger DPS." That is why I have that size control in my job macros so every other job has it set to small and the summoner to large.
Oh, can you do this? Because that's one thing making me hesitant on leveling summoner, I want to see the big primals but I don't want others to get pissed off at them.
@@CanadianYeti69 In his summoner size video he talks about how size is player side and what other players see is based on what they have set not the summoner. So what I have is that when I am on summoner they are big but when I change to other jobs they are small.
Honestly now that I've played it more in loving it that and it actually fits the ff of how summoner works. And with how the skills work now who knows that later down the line we get better more cooler summons.
After having RDM and SMN to 90, i am confident to say that SMN playstyle is simplier than RDM now It is so simple that it almost feel like a braindead job for level 90 Dont get me wrong i still love it Its just way too simple for level 90 job
yeah right now this job feels like it's banking on the future of it. They have to know it's too streamlined, and should be preparing something to spice it up eventually
The Astral Flows are the most interesting and promising part of the new kit imo. Those should really unlock a *lot* earlier, upgrade over time, maybe get an extra charge later on. Take a bunch of the power budget that's currently tied up in Rites and move it into a second unique move per stance. Do some weird shit, give Titan a stoneskin to cast on someone, give Garuda a Displacement, idk. Change the shape of each summon's attack, like turning Titan back into a nova and maybe something bizarre like Garuda into a donut AoE. Really make me move around and think about when and how to squeeze the most value out of each summon.
Long post; TLDR: Bring ARR primals and make them be references to XIV Summoner. If they add a summon phase post Phoenix featuring the rest of the ARR primals (Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva) I feel that some identity should be added to them, especially if Phoenix is weaker than Bahamut. Have Leviathan be based around dots (that appears and goes away at the end of its summon). Ramuh can be based around party buffs with the same timer. Finally Shiva can be based around spell speed/cooldown and crit rate. If you're wondering why, each summon references the history of Summoner in FFXIV. Leviathan being tied to dots is a reference to ARR summoner being a dot class. Sapphire Rite could be the Bio & Miasma dot, it only gets applied to the enemy once during the summon but every subsequent hit functions like the OG Fester and the Sapphire Disaster can function like Bane, spreading the effects but still functioning on the same rule as above. Leviathan in separate media (i.e. Dissidia NT where Y'Shtola and Zenos are playable) focuses on debuffs or applies the Sap status. Ramuh being tied to buffs is a reference to Stormblood Summoner, where the class got Devotion. Amethyst Rite could apply the buff similar to its Stormblood iteration (for those unfamiliar it was a buff to healing and damage potency). Amethyst Disaster could apply a group shield. This a reference and upgrade from the shield that the Titan-Egi provided in previous summoner iterations. Ramuh in separate media is tied to buffs (Dissidia NT and World of Final Fantasy for example focused on buffs or has haste and regen). Shiva being tied to a timer is several references in one. ARR Summoner received a spell speed buff when its Egi got a critical hit. Diamond Rite could apply a spell speed or cooldown reduction buff. Diamond Disaster can apply the Critical hit buff further tying to how the Summoner got the buff. Shiva Extreme features a mechanic where if she got 10 damage buffs (which she initiates in the second phase of the fight) she'll wipe the party without the use of Diamond Dust. In separate media Shiva is tied to slowing opponents (in several main series games she uses the slow spell).
As happy as I am with EW SMN, I will always miss what I had with Heavensward Summoner. They could honestly bring most of that kit back for a Chemist DPS Job and i'd play that too. There was just something about Bio/Miasma/Shadow Flare/Bane/Contagion management that was super satisfying.
When it dropped I was in love with it, now that I've had playtime...I am in the camp that it's bordering on boring. Just casting ruin/rite over and over and over again, sure the 90 primal summons are cool but eh.
Yeah I'm ultimately just not happy that new primals effectively force you to spam one button, and that button changes between fast gcd, instant gcd with weaving ogcd, and mega long cast time. Its still one button am chained to for 60% of rotation.
jup, that's why I ended up not leveling the job first in EW.. I chose BLM and I couldn't be happier about how deep and nice it is! I need a job that needs to be at least semi complex or so well fit together that it's just stupidly fun (RDM for example, man, it's so nice). SMN plays like a MCH for me, but less fun.. it is weird.. and MCH is more fun too imo. That being said, I am happy for anyone who enjoys the job. It's not for me but I have found another job to enjoy instead. If it wasn't for SMN being so boring to me I would've never tried other jobs that bring me joy. The aesthetic of the job is sick though. Too basic and on the brink of being barren to me.
@@LordFinkenstein emerald is a stone of green color. The air element is represented in the game by the green color. Garuda is green. So it would be suiting to have emerald carbuncle to be green. When you summon the normal carbuncle, it is blue. Ruby carbuncle is red. Topaz carbuncle is yellow. And emerald carbuncle is blue even though it is pictured green on the action button.
I leveled it to 90 with the story, wasn't crazy about it but didn't hate it. Thought it was a bit easy. Then I did around 5 expert dungeons with it and I have no interesting in playing it again. It is very simplistic in its rotation, and there is little to no way to differentiate yourself from other summoners. There is no "skill expression" to the job. Just that bit of playing was enough for me to move on to more interesting DPS with higher levels of difficulty.
The skill expression comes on harder fights with downtime phases and where you have to do other things. Because there's so little room in the rotation, a summoner who understands the exact importance of every skill and knows the fights back and forwards can drop the least impactful skills from the rotation to get more of the higher impact skills out before downtime/demi comes off cooldown.
I'm glad you brought up all of my concerns about new SMN Haps. There's a lot I'm not too excites about, but the fact they changed my favorite job so that other people will play it is a huge slap in my face. And with the loss of DoTs, a huge expression of skill has been lost on this job. I'll admit, something needed to give on old Summoner, but they basically stripped away half it's old kit and left it on the cutting room floor; I know I'm not the only old Summoner main who dropped the job because they took away the stuff I enjoyed in favor of satisfying people who weren't playing it.
Since ARR, I hated SCH so I only play SMN. During Shadow, I picked it back up and had a small change of heart, it wont be my main choice, but i can appreciate it more. But when EW dropped... it was boring, your 'summon' Carbuncle is the most useless thing in the game. It sits there only to get access to stuff that might as well not require it. I would say Carbuncle is more useless than Undraw at this point. TLDR; Hate the changes, boring as heck, would pick Scholar after not playing it in 6+ years.
yeah i totally get you. towards 5.5, hell towards 5.3, smn was rounding out to be a very fun and coherent job. your dot and fight downtime determined your opener and trance timings, your filler phase was trying to weave aetherflow/fester and move without overcapping egi assaults and ruin4s, your bahamut phase was a test of how well you managed to hold onto those 4 ruin stacks and both bahamut and phoenix let you move around a good amount without giving you too much movement and it was mainly minding enkindle's long animation to prevent ghosting everything flowed together nicely, everything had a purpose, everything connected or had an interaction with each other. it's the complete opposite of endwalker smn
@@aliasonarcotics Even then, i purposely throw 2-3 Ruin 4's just so when I have an assault ready and I need to run, I know I wont waste it if I need to run. Old Summoner needed time, practice, and knowledge of your kit. Like the tactition idea that the quests throw at SMN/SCH. You were never meant to be busy or fast paced, you were literally trying to control the battlefield with Garuda/Titan's aoe and Shadowflare.
I am one of those, sadly now former, Summoner mains now that preferred and adored the ShB variant of the job. Sure it had a lot of buttons (which was part of the appeal to be honest), but it also had clear phases where you built up to a big release, namely Egi Assaults/Further Ruins into Summon Bahamut. There was the odd ruin 3 spam window after Phoenix which I feel was a missed opportunity to add another primal summon to make it a nice three part cycle. Would have been cool to be able pick which primal you summoned for that third phase too. I agree with you though, class fantasy wise it's never been better and it's obscenely cool to look at. I just hope they reintroduce systems that you have to manage again at some point. The DoTs were a nice use if classic Final Fantasy black magic spells that didn't quite fit into Black Mage like bio. Hope to see the return of some of the old kit, but I won't hold my breath. Either way I'm excited for the future of the job.
I think the most fun part about SMN right now is that every Ifrit/Titan/Garuda phase feels a bit different with one being long casts, other one being normal gcd instacasts with ogcds and the other being fast gcd instacasts. If i compare SMN to RDM. Both jobs are quite easy to play. But while SMN feels easier to me, it also feels a bit more satisfying. (mostly due to the big primal summons.)
I honestly miss some of the dot upkeep management. I only started SMN during shb, but I really loved watching the timer and knowing when to refresh it. Now I just mash everything and bringing out the summons is fun, but I really miss those small management bits. Fester/Pain doesn't do anything now aside from extra frontloaded damage, so its just boringly there. I would love something just applying a dot on these skills. Doesn't have to refresh, but it should do /something/. I always thought it would be fun to have the big summon come out, leave behind the egi, and have some control over that for like 30s. Using Titan Claps with a shield weaved in there for self or party member; Ifrit > dash > egi assault on a separate cooldown or something. While it would probably help with some ogcd issues, it would add spell clutter and would probably be detrimental in the longrun. I'm hoping for some QOL changes in the future, so holding out!
I am in the camp that appreciates the simplicity. The 1/2 button spam with a few other buttons and cooldowns sprinkled in when they are up feels closer to Isometric ARPG complexity and that's a nice comfy spot to be in for me and no doubt many others. Dancer filled that niche for me before, but having an easy class available from level 1 rather than 60 is gonna be huge for new players.
I think they could still have the Egi pop out and stay out for the duration of the Rite activity, with the Abilities of the carbuncle given to them as well. Give them different effects while they're attacking, based on whether an AOE or Single Target effect was use. Potentially having the shield give different effects based on what's out at the time, giving it a risk-reward system to using it. like say: Ifrit/ruby - damag reflect or heat-radiating dot on a certain small radius around the player that bursts when broken or dissipated. Titan/topaz - higher potency/durability shield - With an Arm's Length like effect added to it (probably adding a slow duration to any target that hits the summoner) Geruda/emerald - Something like SCH's Expedient, but only effective on the player, to reflect it's quick casts, maybe even it reduces the cast time of Astral Flow modifier, maybe even Effectively functioning like Leylines. Added some more detailes to a relevant reddit thread.
I think this is as close to FFXI SMN in FFXIV that I'm ever gonna get. I loved rotating summons to buff/ deal damage. I just hope we keep getting more summons, like Shiva and Ramuh
@@lynnmatsui how can you talk about story reasons when we summon alphinauds grandpa every minute? Job lore doesnt exist anymore, or does someone knwo why MCH learns to build a robot while leveling with fates in ahm areng?
@@ich3730 haha, I hadn't even thought about that. You're not wrong, but I kinda feel like it's a bit different since the Phoenix part of the story is optional whereas everyone has to learn about Shiva. I dunno, I'm gonna just go push my Louisoix button and question the meaning of life now.
I really enjoy the new smn, it's what I've been waiting for...but I will say that I do miss having dots and I hate the fact carbuncle is just there for no reason practically, would be nice for just simple auto-attacks. I don't mind that pheonix is a bit weaker, the rotation feels a lot smoother now then what it was with dreadwyrm trance.
NGL As someone who has played SMN since 2.0 I love the new SMN. To me it always felt like the summoning aspect of the job was not important and my job was mainly to dot everything, spam ruin 3 and rez healer incase they go down. However I do miss Shadow Flare and Mana Shift.
Y'know what? I hope we eventually get a second set of gems for the post-phoenix phase. That way we still keep the OG 3 egis alongside 3 NEW summons. Give us maybe Ramuh/Levi/Susano/Etc 2nd set of gem use. That'd be fun as HELL.
I was really thinking this, summon II instead of powering our summons could just change the summon over phoenix phase to ramuh/levi/shiva and having diferent astral flow
It went from one of the more exciting jobs to one of the most boring jobs in the game imo. The foundation has been laid though and I hope they manage to build upon it in a way that makes sense.
@bmo i think vercure was a mistake by SE allowing Rdm to self heal. While i never want any class to be nerfed, rdm is an outlier. Its the only dps class that can res instantly and self cure twice for 400 potency each. No where near a healer potency and mana efficiency but thats why rdm can be so good as backup prog "healer".
And that's all it has for it. Great for prog. After you've done it, whoever was RDM will jump to the bigger DPS jobs without touching RDM for that raid again since all the utility it brings is now useless.
As someone who used to be a SMN/SCH main, I loved ShB SMN, it had just the right amount of controlling your pet/summons and casting your own that felt satisfying for me. With EW, the complete change just didnt interest me. It feels like Im just spamming GCDs. Swapped to BRD mostly now.
I liked ShB summoner... when Aetherflow lined up and I had WeskAlber's guide on the other monitor. After a while, I realised that I was kidding myself.
As someone who mained SMN from ARR to SHB, I believe they are going in the right direction with this job and have finally allowed us to live the fever dream of actually summoning cool shit. That being said, even though I agree with you that they have laid a very solid foundation for them to build upon for upcoming expansions, I'm of the opinion that dumbing down the job THIS much was a mistake. Sure, the foundation is solid and very easy to build upon for future expansions, but I also feel like they've cheated us a little bit. Admittedly, the summoner should have been designed like this from the VERY beginning. Summoners are about summoning cool shit, not throwing dots everywhere, and I believe that, if it had been designed correctly from the very start, we would have AT LEAST had three more primal summons, or another demi-summon, or even both, which honestly I don't think is too greedy to ask for considering the pace at which the job developed from Stormblood to Shadowbringers (going from Bahamut to Phoenix). It's amazing that they fixed the job and have made the aesthetics and the abilities fall in line with what Final Fantasy summoners are about, but for a job that has been in the game SINCE ARR, giving us only the "foundation" for the job, while taking away most of the complexity around it, is a little unfair to those who previously loved summoner for its complexity. Don't just give us the foundation, give us the foundation PLUS the cool shit that we honestly deserve. At the very least, if they absolutely insist on not giving us more primal summons for this expansion, giving us a few more oGCDs, such as by giving us an extra Ifrit-themed oGCD to use in between Crimson Cyclone and Crimson Strike, or by giving us more shit to weave in between demi-summon + energy-drain and fester combo, will give the job some of the OOMF it currently lacks in my opinion. Red mage currently feels so much better to sync down to below 86 with, plus it deals more damage AND has better utility and oGCDS up the wazoo at the same time, which I just feel is plain BS. I don't mind it if SMN becomes about as easy to use as RDM, but don't make it SIGNIFICANTLY easier, please. THAT BEING SAID, I do disagree with you on one point: the rigidity of having to choose between the three primals and not skipping straight to the next demi is good job design IMO. You mention that it feels really bad if you find yourself having summoned the wrong primal, and now you suddenly can't cast ruby rite because a mechanic forces you to move. This is a GOOD thing, because it is the only aspect about the job that gives it any complexity, and this is why SMN feels so good to bring into hard content, whereas it gets a little too boring in most easy content. When you cock up the order of a summon, then sure it FEELS bad, but you're supposed to learn from that, so that next time you reach that mechanic, you know that you should summon Titan for max mobility to keep your uptime. I gotta tell you (even though you probably already know this), in extreme trial #2, summoning Ifrit just as the boss signals you to get ready for spread, then going under the boss, casting ruby rite, going away from the boss, then weaving in the ruin IV you've been saving just for that situation, casting the other ruby rite while the mechanic goes off, then jumping STRAIGHT back in front of the boss and smacking the shit out of it feels GREAT, man. It's good that you need to time your summons for specific mechanics. It makes it feel a little more like a BLM in the sense that you have to time your abilities around the mobility allowed by the boss mechanics.
I think they could do something with Fester interacting with the primals. Ifrit for burst, Titan for a mini Addle (defensive), and Garuda for dot. Since you get Energy Drain/2-stacks of Fester once a min (every Demi cycle), you can wait and pick and choose which you want. The Burst can be for your 2-min Bahamut reopeners, and the Dot can be after Phoenix or something.
I think all its animations and attack kit at level 90 need to be made available at lower levels, like level 60 perhaps. Makes a clean logic to upgrade to Demi-Bahamut with the 3 primary primals established, and their gameplay distinctions need to be felt as early as possible too. They need to keep the current new stuff in the new level range, so I understand that that may be a task whose proper time is later. And to make up for lost depth, give them 3 Aetherflow again, let Ruin IV replenish Aetherflow, or get rid of the Aetherflow aspect entirely in favor of some other oGCDs. And then Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva come out for a finisher attack that you can mix and match with other summon phases (Ramuh already has egis in the form of Grey Arbiter), and Alexander may as WELL be the one that gives you your Radiant Aegis shield buff. I've been thinking they could use crystal shards as part of their unaspected attack animations, them being the catalysts for summonings, it's long past time for Fester to go, and Physick while we're at it. I also think you need to see the primals themselves for a little longer instead of showing up for just one attack. Maybe their aspect can appear over your shoulders? Not following around like a pet, but sort of like an aura spirit, or it can show up briefly for Gemshine attacks like reaper's Bloodstalk. Really though, I think FF12 is actually the game that did summons best since they follow you around for an extended time, have a bunch of their own unique attacks, and an awesome finisher, and I haven't seen any FF games before or after do it as good as 12 did. Also, kinda funny how they long cast Ruin II now but scholar's Ruin II is still instant. Should scholar even have any Ruins at all anymore, I wonder... Just give it an instant Broil. On another note, there were some aspects of old machinist I was attached to, like their unique twist on the 1-2-3 combo with ammunition, and it felt a little simple but they could add new stuff later, but even with this new expansion machinist is still super super simple. I think machnist and summoner now both have the lowest amount of buttons in the game, even. For machinist, they could have zazzed it up by making Spread Shot combo into Scattergun for a 1-2 AoE combo, instead of the shotgun replacing it entirely. New attack, yet still just one button, and you never get to see the rapid fire ever again other than synced down? There's room for additive actions for machinist before we need to get to replacements. Paladin funnily enough had so many buttons already that it got an entire expansion without adding a single new button. And you would think a machinist would be a little more technical than a knight. Give it some forcefields, mines, and grenades, or a plasma/laser gun. Let it place multiple turrets on top of the robot.
Because most buffs are at 120 seconds, classes are designed with that in mind. Essentially, all your abilities can be set up to be ready at 120 seconds, when all the damage buffs come in. At 60 seconds, there's usually a small window where a lot of abilities are ready, as well.
One of my main issues is that many of the skill for summoners do not change all the way to 90. There is a crazy vaccuum to get anything new. Its all aesthetically pleasing but man, phase where nothing is happening between bahamut and arcanum is so distracting because of the lack to really do anything there. If a DOT was allowed during this phase that had a 60 second timer and could only be used after Arcanums it would really allow for at least a bit more variety. As a controller player, all of a sudden i have 6-8 empty slots and if something could be added it would be great. Summoner is incredibly repetitive now with no real room to go anywhere. As I just started with Sage, i love the variety of stuff i can do. Dont need a bunch of heals in a dungeon DOT and keep moving, need heals? Eukrasion Diagnosis, Pepsis, kerachole, Damage mitigation and damage heal buff to keep it going. As much as i like the new Summoner i cant help but not love it when Sage seems just as joyfully complicated but fun. Who knows maybe we'll get something down the road, but right now, Summoner and Its poor brother Scholar need a bit more time in the oven. Sage is awesome though, so if y'all want a replacement to complicated and variety try that.
If feel one of the main factors to smn's lowered dps really is because of the loss of its dots, even if they just added one of them back I feel that'd help- my main idea is that if they didn't want to give it bio again they could have atleast let ifrit's hell fire still apply the burn dot from before. I'll admit though I still like playing the class even now i will miss how much more busy and precise it felt before with its management.
As a scholar main I've never been into my twin job. It was only a free max level DPS and tbh I've never played it that much. However I love the new summoner. Even though you only have the illusion of variety in the rotation as you pointed out I love how it feels to spin through the summons, even the small ones, and have different visual effects and attacks. But I have to agree that this almost complete overhaul can be frustrating for ppl who liked the older version of the job. Maybe the Devs could find some middle ground by bringing back some DOTs for example. Or another way I would love to see it is implementing a second set of summons who have the dot attacks. I mean we have ruby, topaz and emerald right now, why don't get other gems like saphir for leviathan, opal for shiva and amethyst for ramhu ?
IMO Ifrits spells having that long of cast times should be hitting hard like Black Mage spells are do not like trading having to not move on Summoner and basically hitting for the same damage as the spells I can move with. Also I feel like the potency of Fester is low.
If Fester is gonna be such low unimpressive potency, they ought to give it more than 2 uses per 60 seconds. Their reducing Aetherflow to 2 stacks in ShB never jived with me, feels neutered, that's pre-level 50 stuff
Maybe you can help with this, How do I solo tough mobs with summoner? I'm currently on the job quest "A book with bite" and it spawns a nasty elemental that hits like a ton of bricks and i have no way to slow/kite it and no tank (unless I respec my chocobo and hope it holds agro), any advice?
Interesting that you didn’t mention that Energy Drain and the Aetherflow abilities in general just feel vestigial now. They’re SO divorced from the rest of the new kit that it’s kind of ridiculous that they kept them in at all.
I love new summoning animations, but I'm no fan of making job easier since they already to easy enough and now smn is like a physical ranged. Also I'm a fan of dots. Heavensward-ARR my favorite time manage dots
Ruin III which you barely use and Ruby Rite being your only casts, yeah, summoner is so mobile to the point of feeling like a physical ranged DPS than a caster. If it were the actual summons themselves doing those attacks that would be fine, since summoners should just be a commander for a force that isn't themselves. Maybe the summons themselves should have a cast time? It would feel more satisfying when they finally do come out, summons are always a long suspenseful cast in every FF game
All I hope for is that our next Magical Ranged DPS apes Arcanist/Summoner/Scholar's DoTs and goes full dedicated DoT mage. Geomancer, Necromancer, Magus. . . just something for those poor souls that lost their job in EW.
@@SlimeyCube26 Yeah; it sort of is also an Othard White Mage equivalent in that one extra dungeon. But; like Red Mage, I'm sure they could flesh it out over time. I could see it being a DoT mage that picks up the water and wind torch of Conjurer.
I’ve played SMN almost exclusively until ShB when I leveled most the other jobs above 70s. When my friends would convince me to play WoW in past years (no more!) I would always say a downside was picking a class, and sticking to it. In FFXIV I never had that issue, because I loved SMN that much. I loved the little intricacies of minmaxing it, the excessively long 100 page long Ahk Morning guides- these are the things that compelled me and many others. I leveled it 80-90, did the ex/raids, and have now entirely switched to RDM. I hate the new SMN. There is a difference between ‘simple’ (DNC, SAM, MCH, etc) and this. It’s just….. empty. The kit feels like when you go into pvp and your entire combo is thrown onto 2 buttons. There are no places to improve, weave, mix up the order, save cooldowns, change positionals, manage dots, manage your pet and it’s intricacies… nothing to separate you from others. It’s just. The same spells in a neverending circle. I was SO hyped from the first look of the updates to SMN which likely set myself up for disappointment. I still enjoy the new aesthetics of it all. But that’s about it.
I get why some people don't like ot, I love the visuals, personally, I would cut down on all the instant casts and give it more damage, that's my only issue, it feels very weird to do less damage than a RDM, which ironically is the least mobile caster now, never thought I'd see the day. I like the direction they're heading, but it's almost a phys ranged with the damage output and almost all instant casts. It honestly reminds me of DNC, which I don't hate but was not what I expected I guess.
Dot skills doesn't suit summoner but they could use those to make a complete new job like a witch doctor or something in the future. I am happy summoner is actually summoning now. All they need to do is to fine tune it to make it more interesting to play with.
I miss the DOT SMN. I loved it, it was fast paced, chaotic, and had lots of room to min/max your play and coming from DOTA it was the only job (besides SCH) I found engaging enough to keep my attention. Now it's just aoe/dd until pet charges come up, aoe/dd again bUt WiTh PeTs, rinse/repeat. I feel like if they want to take the job this direction the pets need more importance to which one you pick besides effectively being a skin for Carbuncle while you spam the same dd/aoe spells but "InFuSeD wItH eArTh/FiRe/WiNd AsPeCt". Elements in general don't seem to really matter in FF combat. It's just flavor text rather than an actual mechanic. What if each pet augmented the spells to have an effect alongside their damage. Like wind aspect applies a DOT, earth does a stun or knockback, something like that could help the job feel a little more open again instead of so rigid
I know it would be a nightmare to code but imagine if your default pet would be your auto-attack(ranged ofc) probably not though, as carby isnt out 100% of the time. just an idea to make the pet seem more.... "engaged?"
Missing the DoTs and would love some oGCDs... But on the other hand, the 2 casts for Ruby Rite excluded, there's pretty much no need to stand still anymore, just keep on moving around the whole fight! It feels a bit weird with summoner & red mage since before endwalker red mage felt like the more mobile one since you could move between every other spell while waiting for the GCD, and now it feels like the summoner is the more mobile because they can keep doing their Ruin IV and Titan/Garuda rites and bahamut/phoenix phases while moving.
Many people dropping ideas to fix smn, here is mine (more like a list of many opinions in one place): 1. Make ruin 3 cast time same as gcd again, there is NO REASON to have it less so you can single weave...you dont weave anything 2. Garuda spells should be hardcasted. Make the concept of ifrit is heavy cast, garuda is smaller cast and titan instant casts 3. Make ruin 4 and energy drain usefull during ALL summons. For example, make energy drain reset every time you summon ANYTHING and even change the spells during those summons for extra flashy effects and keep ruin 4 proc but instead change ruin 4 to another summon specific spell. 4. To add up to point 3, make combo spells for baha and phoenix like shb phoenix. Make the first spell hardcast and second instant as combo, by changing ruin 3 (already happens) and ruin 4 . It will make the job more fun positioning yourself well to hardcast stuff and feel like a caster Edited for spell names
I'm still surprised that no one has mentioned the potential utility in choosing the right summon at the right time. It's not like it's super deep or anything, but I like being able to choose what to summon depending on the situation. I've had some very satisfying Ifrit charges during trial 2 EX and enjoy popping Titan when I know heavy movement is coming.
Exactly this. Knowing that the waves will start soon and popping titan for the mobility and switching to ifrit as it's dps-mid-time etc. felt very satisfying.
you can still move plenty with ifrit. you only need to hardcast one spell, which you should do first as soon as you summon ifrit if there's nothing going on and you have no buffs to capitalise on. then you get a gapcloser, melee and swiftcast the last ruby rite, plenty of movement. on top of that, you can dump your 1 ruin3 filler (which lets you slidecast) and ruin4 inside ifrit as well. I don't feel like ifrit is that punishing even if you use it wrongly and i've used ifrit in lightwaves without an issue
@@aliasonarcotics You can make Ifrit work, but that costs you a swiftcast (which I always save during prog) and you don't really have control over where you charge, so it's uncommon but positioning can screw you during Ifrit (think trial 1 EX). My initial point I suppose was just that you have a little bit of pre-thinking you can do before just popping summons randomly and it can feel satisfying.
Summoner should have Phoenix and Bahamut as separate buttons but share a recast so you can choose between damage or utility. As is it's very restrictive.
Sounds like an amazing idea on paper...but NOBODY would use Phoenix then cause "muh dps lose". They should ad an equivalent of Deathflare for SMN or make the whole phoenix phase have more potency, its not normal than Phoenix phase has less dps than Bahamut.
@@royox I understand. But it's about having the option. Just like you can choose between ITG. That's all. That said I think SMN DPS is low? I think RDM does more dps now. Concerning.
I miss my DoTs, to be honest. Takes away a certain level of involvement to not be monitoring them and keeping them up as needed, especially since it let you keep SOME form of damage up during the points where you can't realistically attack the boss and get away at the same time.
I’m glad mrhappy realized the same thing I did, Phoenix shouldn’t have a heal on his astral flow especially since it makes bahamut the only summon you want to start with your raid buff. I also really hate how Garuda and ifrit feel like so much extra work for not more damage than Titan. Just feels ehhh for needing to have longer cast times. Also please please please fix Garuda astral flow!!! I hate that it snap shots the spot the enemy is in when you start the cast for the ground aoe and doesn’t place the aoe wherever the enemy gets hit after the long cast time
As someone who cannot afford good internet and play on horrific 300 ping I appreciate simple jobs :3 Also people must remember this is the newest SMN, and it will build up as we continue over the expansion :D
@@LordFinkenstein I said "Over" the expansion, meaning, when the expansion is over, and beyond. This is 100% always the case. How I see it as, similarly, is like the story that had come to ending. Summonner old job, came to ending too... now, we build up story in different way, while, Summonner... will build up along the way (I do think they will buff SMN, they HAVE to buff smn because Pheoenix is ridiculous weak) but the real changes, even in story comes with expansion, and so, it evolves... well, that's how I see it ^^ However! I will point out your theory is no longer correct mister! This, was true at all trimes until a year ago when they randomly changed Monk's job mid expansion! hehehe... but that was indeed rare ^^ I just look forward to how SMN from now on will evolve! It may be boring now, but it was also boring when level 50 was cap ! So, let's look positive forward, and please, I tell this to everyone, suggest any ideas or thoughts to Yoship, submit in forum or ingame support desk ^^
The healing on Phoenix makes sense as it fits with how the summon has worked in past games (minus the full party revive I guess since this isn't FF11) Speaking of 11, they actually have room now to fashion SMN more closely after 11's version and I sincerely hope they do so. Not so much in the having a big fancy avatar out all the time (though I'd love that) but rather, from here on having every single one of Summoner's new abilities be a function of a Primal and really give the job more utility so that it can compete with RDM. Like I sorely miss how in 11 SMN had TONNES of blood pacts for various party effects (Stoneskin from Titan, Haste from Garuda etc.) so it really would be cool to have let's say Ravana called to grant the party a huge damage boost. Now that the stupid poison mage identity is dead and buried at last, they can focus on going ham with the lore and history of the job and it would be absolutely criminal if they didn't.
I feel like pheonix's GCDs could be bumped up in potency slightly to make up for the lack of deathflare. Also, making all of the Astral Flow things OGCD instead of havinge Ifrit's and Garuda's on it would help the between-trance flexibility a ton.
I think the 3 summons playing different is what makes the job feel better. Like yeah in a perfect world the rotation is pretty rigid but a lot of the time im in situations where Im not going to get a full ifrit off in time for my next summon so ill use titan instead for its mobility. I like that the flexibility comes from using the right summon at the right time
@@gearhead417 I'm not saying get rid of the differences between the summon's rites or how titan's astral flow interacts, just clean up that weird 3s cast for slipstream and possibly make Ifrit's crimson cyclone/strike an off-global to keep that button consistent
As a summoner level 90. I feel so bored with the class now. I don’t pay attention to animations so I just pay attention to the rotation and fight so honestly I miss old summoner. I loved the complexity and many things you had to manage. It’s used to be one of my favorite jobs now it seems like so far the worst. I only have all physical and smn/sch at 90.
Yeah I agree with you here, I really enjoyed the flexible complexity it used to have, it made you feel really good when you really knew the job, I remember holding stacks of Ruin IV and using their instant cast to dodge mechanics in Hades and keep up time in farm parties and a few days later when joining another farm being remembered by someone for doing so and it was a really awesome feeling. Now it feels like there isn’t much skill involved anymore.
@@themagicalcat6828 yeah lol I saw it coming when I saw the trailer. Hopefully they do something else in the next expansion to give the complexity back again. It’s what us old summoner lovers love.
I severely dislike this rework to a degree where most people would disagree, but that comes from a position of loving the old summoner and having that yanked overnight. I just can't get over how utterly empty and lifeless the job feels. The big fancy summons are, ironically, hollow. I don't get the kick out of it like others do because I don't feel like there's any ramp-up or build-up to these big summons, just push the button and they appear. Sure they *look* powerful and deal a pretty big hit, but it happens so frequently at such little effort that these really epic summons got stale very quickly for me. As for how the job plays, I feel it needs so much more. There's barely any resource management, little to no optimization, everything is rigid, once I hit the striking dummy for about 20 minutes I pretty much got all there was to get. Not to mention it's even more repetitive than before. That kind of bummed me out, but perhaps that's a personal preference. I was a sucker for the level of optimization and numerous minor tweaks you could do to old summoner, and there's almost nothing to do for optimization on the new iteration. As for the balancing, Square has walked themselves into a rock and a hard place. Since the job is so simple, far simpler than any DPS job we've seen thus far at max level, they're probably reluctant to make it any higher in damage since the job is TOO safe. If they made the job more powerful, it kind of raises the question of why bring a black mage or a red mage if they're going to be higher risk? It's a bit of a strange conundrum born out of the job being too easy at the moment. Idk, I'm really bummed out by this. The best I can do is just to drop my main for the time being and move onto others.
that was me in the second trial, especially since the red and green from dawn mantle.. I was like wait what do ifrit and garuda mean the boss did a different move that time
@voidsent im more worried of titans cheeks getting R rating ban complaints from young players. Other than that i hope to see people get annoyed from said summons covering the screen with bare cheeks blinding raid to death.
I was that guy that actually liked the previous SMN rotation. I tried the new one out on a dummy at my FC and just couldn't deal with how different it is. I don't see myself playing SMN anymore unfortunately
I feel like they should make Ifrit’s phase entirely melee, make Ruby Rite instant cast but with melee range, I feel like theres no reason for Crimson Cyclone -> Crimson Strike to bring you into melee range, especially considering Ruby Rite is a long cast time, which I generally wanna be far away and safe for. Sure I use it every blue moon to dash inside a donut AoE, but its so unreliable, since I’d need to have already been in Ifrit phase when I need to dash. SMN has been my main since I started the game several years ago, and I cant say I’m super happy with the changes, they feel cool, but they are such a different job, I do kinda feel that the job I really loved was taken from me.
i would like to add that for right now going with low sps is better than high sps cuz you want to target your sps based on the fights and we don't know what the savages will look like and with a sps that doesn't match up with the fight, it ends up being less dps than the low sps build
As far as the dots go they should put them on the summons. When you summon Ifrit and he does inferno that could put a burn dot on the target and the same with the other two.
@mirico garuda has "aero" dot ground spawn. But i agree. They should bring back smn dot dps as well. Right now alot of dotting classes lose their dots which seem odd and might be due to player complaints about it being meaningless. Yet alot of rpgs dots are central to some classes identity such as necromancers or druids in WOW.
I like it being a bit more "simple", though I think the black mages rotation isn't any harder, bm just has to hardcast and gets less mobility by doing that. More summons might be cool, but I am really happy with it as it is right now.
Basically, yes. I'm omnicaster and it *baffles* me how people call SMN simpler than BLM and RDM! Both of these jobs have a simple base to work with, and haven't really changed much in the past three expansions. Black Mage has two phases that don't change much outside of where you place your Xenoglossy and Thundercloud casts. Six F4, one Para, one Despair in fire phase, switch to Ice, B4 and Paradox in ice, switch back, repeat. It's an exceedingly simple rotation that gets its maximization from spacing and timing, using your three main oGCDs to give it more speed or mobility. Red Mage builds mana with proc usage and swapping between spells (or just layering the same-color spell if you have both procs and swapping between colors until you only have one proc), burning oGCDs so they don't overcap, and using your melee combo as soon as possible as mechanics allow. This is also very simple to execute and finds most of its maximization in: timing and position! Summoner wants to pair Bahamut and Titan under Searing Light. It wants Swiftcast for Ifrit's Rite, or Garuda's Slipstream. It wants to use Arcanums up before the next Trance but doesn't want to delay that Trance. It wants to understand party makeup and fight progression because that changes how you use your Primals. It wants to understand when to use Addle, when to use Radiant Aegis, working with your healers for Rekindle and the party regen off Phoenix. It wants to fit Ruin IV under buffs, or at least use it before the next Energy Drain. The "rotation" has less clutter, but it still has so many decisions to be made to get the most out of it in a given situation: it has versatility and far more flexibility than people are giving it credit. And now, its maximization comes not from making strange backward choices (DWT on downtime just so Bahamut would be ready when the boss comes back. For example.) but from: spacing and timing. When to use a Primal for mobility or when to use it for damage. It does need some tweaks, and I feel that as time goes on there will be changes to how the job flows in order to give it more time to use different and maybe even new abilities...Maybe a slow-down on how *often* you summon things...But as it is right now? It's in a good place. It still has a lot of choices to make. They just aren't esoteric and player-unfriendly anymore. They're intuitive now.
Would probably make sense to swap Bahamut and Phoenix around, so you get stronger once unlocking Bahamut.. But ye the gameplay could really use some weaving, dots or oGCDS to break up the monotony. The aestethic is everything I ever wanted from my summoner, but I am really contemplating not maining it this time around due to it's simplicity - simple can be good, but this version is a tad bland once you get over the bombastic visuals of the summons. I agree that it's a great base to build off tho! EDIT: Rather than a potency bump on Ruby Rite, maybe add a dot component to it, that could impact it's usage in regards to other abilities to maximise dot uptime outside of Ifrit, the only issue of course being that the rotation is so busy, that weaving in some Ruin 3s inside Ifrit to extend the dot before refreshing would cost abilities somewhere else in the rotation.
How much dps loss are we talking by throwing away gcds in summon windows he mentioned? Like 5 seconds longer to kill zodiark or is it actually pretty serious like 20 seconds longer?
I love the mobility of the Titan/Garuda phase and the gap closer of the Ifrit phase. SMN was my first class when I started back in August but honestly I love the changes. I struggled with my rotation when first picked it up. Now its much easier to know what you're supposed to do, and I'm able to cycle through the different summons with ease. Plus, I glammed all of my egi's to the emerald Carbuncle so its nice havingnthsy consistency. My only complaint is that they need to either buff Physick to RDM's standard, or make it a self-heal pet action that requires the Carbuncle out.
I'm just hoping I can make 1 casting gear set that is good on Summoner, Black Mage and Red Mage. I know SpS builds worked on blm in shadowbringers, but not on rdm.
I like the direction of the changes, but feel that the Primals need quite a bit more differentiation in their behavior so that there are situationally best times to pull the appropriate one out. Right now that exists to a degree, but mostly at level 86 when the astral flow abilities change thing up somewhat, but I think the diferences need to be expressed more in the core abilities of each primal. Like maybe Ifrit = traditional caster, black mage like. Titan = close range, pbaoe, high mobility. Garuda = DoTs.
I mean that already is the case. If you know a boss is going to have a movement heavy mechanic, you don't want to use ifrit, if the boss is going to move, maybe not Garuda, and it feels bad blowing titan before I movement mechanic
Yup sorry edited my post before I saw yours. Agree, there is already some variation especially between Ifrit and Garuda/Titan. Just was hoping it would be more core to their abilities even before hitting 86.
I started off in a realm reborn, Arcanist/Summoner was one of my favorite classes to play along with lancer/dragoon. I felt satisfied the times where our healer or tank just dced from the dungeon and I used my own wits and knowledge to be able to 3 person some of the 4 player dungeons. It was a class that actively made me feel smart, but now it's a butchered spam, flashy class that is quite easy to use. I'm not saying it is a bad class by all means just that it is a butchering of how summoner was long ago.
I think what the job needs is a 3rd demi and then instead of the Demi's rotating you select which one to use and then that's on a 2 minute cooldown. Maybe have like Shiva and have it so she buffs your damage of your primals (via a debuff on your enemy). So it's a choice of do you want to use your heavy hitting bahamut, do you want to use your weaker Shiva but stronger primals or phoenix because you know raid wide damage is coming and you could do with the heals.
This job is actually easier than machinist now, which, you know that's not necessarily a bad thing but I do agree that maybe a few more buttons to make it more engaging would be good ESPECIALLY with how carbuncle just sits there and phoenix is a really weird DPS loss to unlock. With regards to dots, you know I think that they should figure out a way to tackle the issues dots have in many gameplay situations first, like can you imagine the pain in the current extreme trials having to dot up an orb and it just shatters in the following two gcds xD maybe something like reapers death design where you get gauge for dotted up things dying would be good.
"What does Carbuncle do?"
"His best"
/pet
Being fair... Carbuncle has historically not done much else other than buff you in previous FFs... so it fits. XD
@@Krescentwolf In FFXI Carbuncle was a regular DPS hitter and used Searing Light for a powerful AoE nuke during Astral Flow every 2 hours (later shortened to 1hr). Also one of the few 'permanent' summons you could have out.
Carbuncle changes to 5 other entities and then three ogcd abilities
@@Crystan he is Talking about the Og Carbuncle wich was a support summon that revived Allies and Healed all of them
My hopes for future Summoner changes is during the Phoenix phase, rather than summoning Ifrit, Garuda and Titan again, we summon Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva, each bringing their own uniqueness. Would be a cool way to do it and then if they do add an Alexander phase after Phoenix then in the future they can add an additional 3 summons after Alexander phase.
I totally agree. It would have been great to have Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva after summoning Phoenix. Just having Titan, Ifrit, & Garuda is kind of meh, at least for me.
I agree, but i think it should be the warring triad instead of levi, ramuh, and shiva.
@@10001vader … why would Summoners ever be able to summon the warring triad over the staple summons of every game?
@@TheSattocs I mean they are primals, people are allowed to have their preferences and there's nothing illogical about Summoner harnessing them.
Though as for which primals make more thematical sense for Summoner? I definitely agree that it should be Shiva, Leviathan, and Ramuh.
@@TheSattocs Because Summoning is an Allagan art (and people summoning sephirot egis is part of the job quests) and the warring triad have very nice counterparts with the three we currently have (ifrit -> zurvan, garuda -> sophia, titan -> sephirot).
Rather than Alexander in the future, I would personally love to see post-phoenix phase replace ruby-ifrit, emerald-garuda and topaz-titan with sapphire-leviathan, amethyst-ramuh and diamond-shiva. This way you could have the entire list of ARR classic summons at your arsenal. As for carbuncle. He is now delegated to being the best and cuddliest math homework you've ever had, which is more than fine by me. I've thoroughly enjoyed the new summoner, but do agree, it could use a small numbers buff somewhere. Sometimes, simple isn't bad. But then, for me it does carry a lot on aesthetics alone.
Sounds good to me. One thing I find funning is hearing Carbuncle being unsummoned and resummoned every few seconds.
"It's a good clean slate to have."
That's exactly it. Summoner has been revamped and remade more than any other job. They haven't had time to build on the solid base before now. And i think they've finally achieved that solid base to work from. Maybe they can throw in more OGCDs like a single use 'summon Susano to slam his sword down' kind of thing to help pad out the admitted limited rotation. Would go a long way to add something else to the 'summon->dump->summon-dump' rotation.
Honestly I wish they cut down on the instant casts, maybe only instants for the Demis, higher damage and then they could do what you said, like attacks from other summons as oGCDs, or even procs, reminiscent of BLM, like you proc on Ifrit and get an instant Shiva attack or something like that, that would be so cool IMO. It's so close to being great.
@@mismismism I agree with that, kinda wish R4 was an oGCD just with how it works. Feel I lose it more often than not
@@mismismism I'm actually fine with the rites as they are. I would like to see long cast times added to the summons. I'd be okay with 3~4 second cast if they gave it the potency to make up for the gcd clips. *spoiler*
Summoning magic is creation magic which we know takes absolute concentration and mental clarity. Lore wise it would make sense for them to have long cast times. Summoners also should feel vulnerable when swapping pets/summoning. It'd also give back a bit of its complexity since, unlike blm, they don't have mana wall to protect them from not moving.
I agree 100%, it would be great to have ogcd's based on previously fought primals! Maybe that there'll be an element of choice in the summoners rotation. Like maybe Lakshmi gives support, while susano deals massive damage or alexander gives like a party wide speel speed buff or something, there are so many opportunieties and I hope they'll grasp at least one.
@@Yadamane Yeah, it's a little weird that they feel like a phys ranged basically. Right now BRD has higher DPS than SMN and that's very weird, I think they need to get a bit away from constant mobility and more into casting at least some of the summon attacks with higher potency, I think SMN needs to be somewhere between BLM and RDM for it to feel right with how epic the visuals are.
I like how the fact we can now summon the big primals at 90 is explained in the MSQ right before the final zone, with the non-tempering summoning we learn then.
We are not summoning the primals. Can't recall the term they used but they specifically stated it was not the actual primals during the media tour.
The essence of the primal's power. Its always been the same from the beginning, lorewise. But it just changed form and not egi anymore
It's all well and good but a ton of the tactical side of SMN died with DoTs being removed. And the constand slow spells from Ifrit and to awkward rush down atks with no way to quickly retreat piss me off. I play mage to fight from a distance. IMO garuda and Titan are fine but Ifrit is laughable. I have fun with the class more than MCH or other mages. But it's not the class I loved. I want at least Bio and Bane back.
@@kokayinewsome9308 I have pretty much the exact opposit view.
I hated the dots. Forgetable at the best of times and annoying everywhere else. Adding nothing to the summoner fantasy and had almost no synergy with the rest of the job.
Ifrit is also my favorit. It's infused skill is one of the only impressions of skill left in the job, as it is a gap closer you can hold for a while and use at a good or bad time. Garuda also has a bit of this, but with a long cast time instead. Titan on the other hand is the same always. There is no thought at all on how to use your rotation, no matter the situation.
The range thing I dont understand. I don't play SMN to play mage. BLM is much more a traditional mage in that regard. I play SMN to summon stuff, the more like the classic class the better, with big over the top attacks, which is pretty much exactly as it is now. Now we ""just" need some more depth in the future and I'm golden
@@Elidan1012 I hear a lot of people want DoTs gone except from BRD. But I used to to still do dmg even when I have to run for my life. Bosses and swarms will often chase you with atks or crazy shit and you cant get a hit in. Not even a quick one. But have a DoT on them and you're still doing dmg even as you run.
Ifrit right now gets on my nerves so much I honestly dont like using him and have considered just using Titan, garuda minus slipstream, and fester or pain flare to make up for Ifrit gone.
I honestly think Square has tried hard to make a class most people will like with new MNK and SMN. But I'm not totally into it. But I'll remain loyal to it until they add in faster range classes or mages or more pet classes or better dot classes that can spread and single target with DoTs with being slow like BLM.
As a SMN main for 8 years, my issue with the current iteration other than “too simple” is there’s really no build up in the rotation. It hardly has any oGCDs, I don’t think 3 aether flow stacks make sense when everything else comes in threes. The Ruin IV mechanic is kind of strange…It feels like this is how it should play at level 70 or 80, but yes - aesthetically fantastic.
To be fair, that is basically what it is. Current SMN is basically the lv60/70 baseline for the job they can build on going forward. One could argue it's currently lacking in comparison to other jobs, but the rework did achieve it's goal; giving SMN a solid new foundation to be built upon.
Arguably, I like the no build up. Every other job has some sort of build up to its burst, but Summoner is just like, "Press my big Summon and I'm now in my burst phase." I find it to be a nice change compared to every other job that requires varying amounts of set up before they can effectively burst.
I doubt I'm the only one who leveled SMN just before Endwalker and took it up as my first 90. I personally love the direction they took with it!
The job action trailer built a lot of hype around SMN so no, you would definitely not be the only one to do that.
I’m really liking where SMN is headed, but I think they need to do something with Fester and Painflare. Now that there’s no more DoTs, the abilities are just kind of there.
I agree, they feel kind of weird, like they're just there to keep me busy while my cooldowns are going.
True. At least give it even just one dot.
Hell, turn them into dots so you don't just hammer them out when they are available, but spread them out during the 1 minute window
If Phoenix had a fire dot the job would be PERFECT. Now we have this healing skill that is not bad but feels like it takes the space of a damage spell.
Plenty of it is just psychological, but I had a lot more fun with Smn at level 79 than 80.
From level 60-79 Smn is great. Your Dreadwyrm Trance phase is just so much damage, and it just gets better when you can Summon Bahamut at 70 and then Enkidle him for another huge explosion.
But then you hit level 80, and instead of summoning Bahamut every minute, you summon him every 2. And Phoenix's explosions aren't so big and exciting. And you quite literally see your kit take a dps loss, because your Deathflare becomes a heal instead. It's really depressing.
IMO, they need to switch the position of summon phoenix/bahamut. If you learned Pheonix at level 70, it would still be a really nice buff to Dreadwyrm Trance, because you'd go from having Deathflare to having a stronger Enkindle, plus autos from Phoenix, plus a utility heal. THEN when you hit 80, your heal would go back to being a dps spell, so you'd have two huge blasts.
The progression would just be so, so, so, SO much better than it is now.
Because hitting level 80 and realizing I just took a dps loss felt really bad. Especially when it's replaced with a heal I have a really narrow window to use, so my ability to strategically time it is so low. Because I'm actually pro utility skills on DPS - love my Dancer's heal/shield, and I usually play tanks/healers. But the Phoenix heal feels bad with you having 12 seconds to use it, very 2 minutes, and no ability to bank it.
*nods in dancer improvisation*
@@Alex-ks3uu For real, Rekindle sucks. I just put it on a tank whenever it’s up even if their HP isn’t low. Who thought that giving us a heal during our 12 second burst window was a good idea…? It fits thematically with what Phoenix does yes, but it just feels bad. Imagine if on Red Mage, you couldn’t use Vercure until you had 80 white and black mana. It’d be ridiculous because you want to be doing other things during that to maximize DPS. (Granted Vercure is still a DPS lose and only something you’d use if you’re progging or your healers die, but point still stands).
If they want to give Summoner healing utility to make it compete with Red Mage, how about actually making Physick useful since they so stubbornly insist on having us keep that worthless spell for some reason? Hell, put in a trait that makes Physick UPGRADE to Rekindle, then maybe the Phoenix phase wouldn’t feel as bad and we could replace Rekindle with something actually worth our “big DPS phase”?
They could add quests to give the SMN the ability to summon other things that would essentially “glam” over one of the main summons such as diablos for titan or Alexander for bahamut just an idea
You can still glam the carbuncle
@@Ace7of7Hearts you can't glam over the level 90 summons though
People have been asking for new summons since 2.0. I doubt it’ll ever happen now. The most I can pray for is new ego’s to glam over Carbuncle, now that it basically does next to nothing.
@@tlatia6072 While glamming the three primal's is less likely, them giving us other primals in future expansions is a possibility.
@@tlatia6072 Now that htey have an entirely new solid base to use, it would be such an error to NOT add more summons or AT LEAST more glams, like a new 3 rotation phase with Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva for example or something like that
I feel they simplified summoner too much, lile they're planning to add more things in future expantions. I actually liked the busy mess than summoner was before, it was really satisfying to play it well
I don't think there is anything in SE track record to validate this.
Healers
Drk
Mch
All with glaring issues that SE refuse to fix. I mean really...what did they get in this expansion? Especially MCH and DRK
@@somnus970 SE sees a job with some jank and flavor, and instead of doing anything better with it, they immediately give up. I thoroughly enjoyed MCH before shb and ew and have been incredibly bored with it since its rework. stormblood mch was genuinely fine, just took someone with more than half a brain to understand it.
@@Qkochan3 pretty much and people keep asking for reworks for other jobs...
Well its better now....
@@MyLux777 lol no
I have been summoner main since I started several years ago and I kinda miss the old more complicated busy finger version with dots. I love the aesthetic of new version and that it feels more powerful. It would be fun to see more primals summoned in the future. Only issue that I have is that I hate that the spell effects are soooo big that I can't see anything. I've been ko'd so many times just because I didn't see aoe underneath me. With smaller screen size (small summon size too obviously) the effects are just too much. I want to see some of my effects to "feel the power" but the "limited" from the options is so little that it's barely there. I wish, there would be middle option between full and limited.
It's still possible to ghost Carbuncle actions, namely Searing Light right before going into Demi summon phase (Bahamut). I do appreciate making the job more about Summoning and not at all having to stress about DoT awareness/uptime. Gem/Brilliance basically replace your Egi Assault buttons (sort of) and you don't have to worry about capping on either Charges nor overcapping/wasting Ruin IV stacks because you used an EA before using an R4. It got rid of the boring R3 filler phase and hardcasting your dots once per 2min rotation, and Astral Flow keeps the job busy enough. I definitely think this rework is exactly what was needed. The Fantasy of the job is kinda the point when you want to play a job, just like choosing which DnD class.
If you do the correct opener than searing light should never ghost.
@@Malix2238 97 parse. I think I know my opener :D
@@kitten1591 Sure buddy i bet you do.
@@Malix2238 ooo someone's jealous
@@kitten1591 Yea totally. /sarcasm.
I was losing my mind that no one has talked about this i felt like i was being gaslighted. Love this video and how you empathized with the old SMN mains TY!
I just feel so disattached from my summons now, which made me lose all interest in SMN after maining it during SHB. Carbuncle does nothing, Bahamut/Phoenix are on autopilot and don't do something after every GCD now. Before, it felt like you were working with your summons and were a team. Not anymore...
Been playing SMN since 2.0 and I feel like I've lost that 'identity' that Mr. Happy spoke of. It's too simplified. I don't feel like I'm doing much of anything, and it feels slower (to me at least). Carby, good bean that he is, is just...there. not doing anything. I am happy that Titan is USEFUL again but other than that, I'm not vibing with this new take on SMN.
I had a smn in a party at my final trial and tbh, it was really epics. It made the fight so much more immersive.
Yeah me too! I had the headcanon that the summoner was summoning the "good" Primals in that final fight, and was really cool to see such iconic figures in the story helping us out.
@@CanadianYeti69 I will be honest, at first I thought it was just part of the fight mechanics! I only realized that after I went in again with a no smn in party "Oh yeah, SMN has that new summons!" Still, like you said, it was so epics because I thought it was like you said "Good" Primals, lol.
I kept going back and thinking that I was missing something when I was playing smn. I thought it was way too simple. Eventually it came to mind that you're given like 30 seconds on each summon to spam those skills, I figured they'd make you weave ruin 3 between each summon cast to buff the damage. But I am enjoying it for what it's worth. It's my roulette running job.
I honestly dont see where they can go with the class now. No dots. So what else is there other than adding in more summons and changing their aether flow atks to be cone or column shaped AoEs. But that's it. Each expansion would just be getting 1 new summon.
I'm loyal to the class since I played it since HW. But I want more than just new summons and starting a fight with Bahamut and a hyper slow set of atks sprinkled in. I could take Ifrit off my hot bar altogether and play SMN even faster. Which i might do because i like my speed.
I think maybe something like phoenix applying a burning dot that stacks up to 3 and lasts 15 seconds with the single target attack, and that you could refresh with fester perhaps. would alleviate some of the weakness of phoenix phase, preserve some damage over time identity, and give the job a higher skill ceiling
i like this, and i dont really like casters lol
I'm in the camp of people that liked summoner before. My favorite iteration was stormblood. The biggest reason I picked up the job was that it was considered to be one of, if not the hardest job. I also miss bio and miasma. I know a lot of people didn't like the dots. But for me it was something I needed to keep track of. Adding another level of difficulty where I need to stay focused or my DPS would suffer. I LOVED the job skill trailer for it in endwalker. It was litterally everything I wanted to see out of the job. And then I heard that DoTs were gone, and I unfortunately quickly got disappointed in the job.
i also miss the DOTs, especially Shadowflare. Fester doesnt mean much to me without BIO & MIASMA
If it takes more than 2 brain cells to function, its too hard.
Clean slate is exactly the way I feel about it, it's a solid base for them to build upon going forward. I'd expect the removal of aetherflow potentially in the future since it's just kind of tacked on nowadays and next expansion I see the most likely addition being Shiva, Ramuh, and Leviathan replacing Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan after Phoenix the same way Phoenix replaces Bahamut every other minute. I'm sure there would be other changes as well but I expect the basic rotation to be Bahamut---Ifrit/Garuda/Titan----Phoenix----Shiva/Ramuh/Leviathan-----Bahamut and so on.
Adding more primals won’t fix the core problem though. Every other dps gets a puzzle to solve. Summoner just mashes all the buttons.
@@Dharengo like I said, it's a good base. I expect them to replace aetherflow with something a bit more complex. The additional summons are a given but not the only thing I'd expect
Giving back the dots would go a long way. Make them abilities instead of spells if it’s causing rotation issues.
@@mikev8551 "It's a good base", "they will surely build upon it in 6.0" is the exact stuff people defending DRK and MCH reworks said and look at them now. Have fun with AoE version of Ruin IV and a second charge on the Phoenix regen as your 7.0 "additions". Maybe "new" summons in post-Phoenix phase, which play exactly the same as current but look different, because all flash, no substance is basically the job's identity now.
@@Dharengo No other DPS has a puzzle to solve. Every DPS is literally "Follow your 123 rotation". Sometimes there is a second "123" rotation. But its basically the same thing. None of the jobs are complicated, its just a question of if you can press the buttons in the correct order fast enough and how comfortable that is for you.
DEMI ALEXANDER!!!! YES!!! Also, a blue or purple gem feels like an easy expansion of things as well. More gems but the same windows between Demis so you have to be more tactical about the summons you use would be interesting
I think keeping the window just like it is but adding more gems would be great. I get whiplash every time I get to that ifrit hardcast. It's not a problem with ifrit per se it's that it doesn't feel like it fits. It'd be better if you had multiple high dps hard cast summons and a few weaker ones with instant casts. instead of each summon does single and AOE dps there's 3 single target and 3 AOE that play different.
We definitely have space now for at least four more buttons. I have duplicate skills on my cross hotbar to make it look less empty.
I really like the simplicity of the class but I do wish there was a bit of room for expression in the rotation. The other casters all have times where skillful play and opportunity converge to create a moment where it feels like you just nailed it. Because the SMN rotation is so linear (other than the order of summons) I don't get the same level of satisfaction from playing it...but I can actually play it well, consistently.
Can you elaborate?
Black mage is whole heartedly linear. Spend as much as in fire phase as possible with no exceptions.
Red Mage is has the option to continue to store mana I suppose
Summoner is easily more flexible than either currently, giving you the option of when and where you want to place your 2 hard cast gcds as slipstream is always best with swiftcast.
@@PH03NIX96 @PH03NIX96 you're still doing the same thing with each summon tho, lol. RDM/BLM, like every job, have a linear rotation yes, but you have so many other buttons to press, that you don't feel it. Comparing two BLMs, their rotation has the potential to look different, as OP said, this allows for expression and shows how /you/ play the job. They have the general idea if how the job should function, different execution. That's fun, it allows for player expression, optimal or not.
New SMN is very bare bones, that ngl, it doesn't /feel/ like the others in that senses. Plenty of the satisfaction comes from its visuals, mechanically, new SMN feels lacking compared to the others. If you compared two SMNs, the only difference I feel like you're going to find is the order of summons they use. As said, it's a great start, but leaves a lot to be desired.
I can understand where you are coming from...But the summon rotation isn't strictly linear. What you do with them depends on situation and even party makeup. Default, you want to use Titan right after Bahamut, if you have Searing Light at least, for more potency...But with some party makeups, Garuda fits better. Ifrit is a free-space, you throw him out when you either need to rush to the boss for a stack, need the space of a swiftcast Ruby Rite but not as much as Titan or Garuda...Rekindle is useful if you're watching party HPs and your healers know you can toss it on people. Mine tend to loosen up a bit when they know Phoenix is on the way because they know Bahamut > three Primals > Phoenix and the timing is predictable.
ShB SMN was so much more rigid on top of having these weird, esoteric things you had to do for max damage: burn DWT immediately, use DWT if it was up on downtime even though you had no target, hold Ruin IVs specifically for Bahamut phase because you want the instant casts for more Wyrmwaves, hold swiftcast for the same reason. I enjoyed playing it because I enjoyed the visuals, I enjoyed and still enjoy the feeling of calling forth these powerful simulacrums of Primals, but make no mistake...Summoner wasn't hard before. It was needlessly complicated by mechanics that did not fit together.
And as made by PHOENIX, the other casters aren't any less "linear" in what they do:
Red Mage is even simpler and always has been. It's Jolt/Proc, lower mana spell/same mana if double proc, burn oGCDs, and Melee Combo with enough mana. Repeat.
Black Mage is B4, Paradox, Fire phase, six Fire IVs, TC use, Xeno use. Despair. Repeat.
@@TransientWitch holy shit you type fast
@@TransientWitch red mage has fleche/c6 drift (and by extension dualcast window management) to worry about, as well as pooling resources into a potential double melee combo under embolden for optimization, on top of minimizing proc waste and planning instants/melee combos around movement
arguably red mage has gotten more complex now that dualcast window management is actually something you have to worry about
black mage has weird and wacky optimizations like transpose lines or other risky lines that cut out low damage spells, planning instants around movement, and maximizing ley lines uptime based on the encounter
not to say new summoner also doesn't have skill expression, where you use ruby rite/slipstream matters and you can mitigate one of the cast times of ruby rite with swiftcast for a minor dps gain. but it does feel like it has significantly less potential for skill expression than the other two casters, and the fact that summoner is pretty much a glorified physical ranged doesn't help
I love the changes. Its what most people have been asking for, for a very long time. I levelled it after reaper and immediately noticed it's simplicity compared to its previous iteration and since I've been levelling RDM next, it clearly the new newbie caster job. RDM has gotten a few more things to care about now.
Moving forward I think SMN needs that "sweet spot" that most other jobs have when they are played well. Lining up 2 melee combos in RDM for example or Reaper having consecutive Enshrouded phases.
That damage buff is very very necessary at this point. I got out damaged by every dps last night in the 2nd extreme trial, despite having almost perfect uptime and no deaths. I understand, SMN has some party support too, but so does RDM. And RDM is absolutely terrifying in the damage department right now.
That being said, super excited for the potential egi glamours!
Rdm damage is fine, they are slightly ahead of Smn in terms of Rdps, a 95 percentile Rdm and a 95 percentile Smn are extremely close. Ive been playing Smn and i'm just not seeing this "low damage" people are talking about.
@@eleanorgreywolfe5142 on Average SMN is just above BRD on the DPS charts and 3rd lowest overall. MCH, DRG and NIN are between SMN and RDM on Average RDPS
Had it at level 30 pre EW, decided to start levelling it again yesterday. At level 56 atm, and I've never been this bored playing a job in this game.
It definitely really sucks for the old SMN mains, particularly those who loved the class for its complexity. My static's SMN was one of such individuals, and he's very disappointed and trying to find a different job to play. I think the visuals are amazing, but I also feel that if a job is getting reworked, it should be reworked with the *current* people who love the job in mind, not in trying to make it more appealing to those who weren't interested in it in the first place.
I disagree. The goal is always to make a job more appealing to a larger portion of players. Summoners were already a lesser played job, and if Summoner hadn't been topping DPS charts I can promise you it would have been played even less. Trying to only appeal to those who prefer complexity and/or power for endgame content is going to get nobody anywhere. You'll never be able to please everyone, so you should try to please the largest audience you can. And that's not even getting into the fact that historically, XIV's summoner was never really like a Summoner, even in Shadowbringers.
Summoners were never WoW warlocks/Everquest Necromancers in any other ff game. The ff14 summoner was a bit of an odd duck in that respect.
@@Joshua-xh6bm I disagree. There's way too many DPS jobs at this point, there are already plenty for those who are looking for an easy mindless job. In comparison there are almost none which reward being a more mindful about your gameplay. BLM and PLD are probably the closest to that. You're trying to look at the job in a vacuum when it doesn't really make sense. Trying to make every single job appeal to the lowest common denominator only leads to further homogenisation of jobs that was already bad enough in Shadowbringers.
I also think that this hang-up on what a SMN is, is just plain weird. Nobody complains that DRK uses MP instead HP, nobody complains that SGE isn't a wizard in robes like Tellah was, nobody complains that DRG in this game is nothing like DRG in every Final Fantasy game ever, where you could Jump to completely avoid damage. Whatever they choose to port over from older FF games, is quite frankly arbitrary and meaningless, and as they showed with SGE, they can make whatever class have whatever aesthetic or gameplay they want.
@@Joshua-xh6bm Why do we need to make EVERY class appeal to the audience? Is it really that bad to have ONE complex job? Even then, it was never that hard to grasp. Just read your kit.
I'm in the same situation as your static's SMN. I'm disappointed and trying to find another job to play as well.
The fact that the Big Summons only kick in at 90 also doesn't help it feel less boring earlier on, or any time you're synced down. The current version feels very much like a first draft that was pushed live without much, if any, testing.
"Bigger pets means bigger DPS." That is why I have that size control in my job macros so every other job has it set to small and the summoner to large.
Oh, can you do this? Because that's one thing making me hesitant on leveling summoner, I want to see the big primals but I don't want others to get pissed off at them.
@@CanadianYeti69 In his summoner size video he talks about how size is player side and what other players see is based on what they have set not the summoner. So what I have is that when I am on summoner they are big but when I change to other jobs they are small.
Honestly now that I've played it more in loving it that and it actually fits the ff of how summoner works. And with how the skills work now who knows that later down the line we get better more cooler summons.
After having RDM and SMN to 90, i am confident to say that SMN playstyle is simplier than RDM now
It is so simple that it almost feel like a braindead job for level 90
Dont get me wrong i still love it
Its just way too simple for level 90 job
yeah right now this job feels like it's banking on the future of it. They have to know it's too streamlined, and should be preparing something to spice it up eventually
The Astral Flows are the most interesting and promising part of the new kit imo. Those should really unlock a *lot* earlier, upgrade over time, maybe get an extra charge later on. Take a bunch of the power budget that's currently tied up in Rites and move it into a second unique move per stance. Do some weird shit, give Titan a stoneskin to cast on someone, give Garuda a Displacement, idk. Change the shape of each summon's attack, like turning Titan back into a nova and maybe something bizarre like Garuda into a donut AoE. Really make me move around and think about when and how to squeeze the most value out of each summon.
@@yeoldpubman 100% agree with this
Giving each summon a secondary utility skill could go a long way to making the job more complex and enjoyable.
Instead of mostly ruin as filler between other abilities, it’s now summoning as filler between ruin casts
Long post; TLDR: Bring ARR primals and make them be references to XIV Summoner.
If they add a summon phase post Phoenix featuring the rest of the ARR primals (Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva) I feel that some identity should be added to them, especially if Phoenix is weaker than Bahamut. Have Leviathan be based around dots (that appears and goes away at the end of its summon). Ramuh can be based around party buffs with the same timer. Finally Shiva can be based around spell speed/cooldown and crit rate.
If you're wondering why, each summon references the history of Summoner in FFXIV.
Leviathan being tied to dots is a reference to ARR summoner being a dot class. Sapphire Rite could be the Bio & Miasma dot, it only gets applied to the enemy once during the summon but every subsequent hit functions like the OG Fester and the Sapphire Disaster can function like Bane, spreading the effects but still functioning on the same rule as above. Leviathan in separate media (i.e. Dissidia NT where Y'Shtola and Zenos are playable) focuses on debuffs or applies the Sap status.
Ramuh being tied to buffs is a reference to Stormblood Summoner, where the class got Devotion. Amethyst Rite could apply the buff similar to its Stormblood iteration (for those unfamiliar it was a buff to healing and damage potency). Amethyst Disaster could apply a group shield. This a reference and upgrade from the shield that the Titan-Egi provided in previous summoner iterations. Ramuh in separate media is tied to buffs (Dissidia NT and World of Final Fantasy for example focused on buffs or has haste and regen).
Shiva being tied to a timer is several references in one. ARR Summoner received a spell speed buff when its Egi got a critical hit. Diamond Rite could apply a spell speed or cooldown reduction buff. Diamond Disaster can apply the Critical hit buff further tying to how the Summoner got the buff. Shiva Extreme features a mechanic where if she got 10 damage buffs (which she initiates in the second phase of the fight) she'll wipe the party without the use of Diamond Dust. In separate media Shiva is tied to slowing opponents (in several main series games she uses the slow spell).
I keep on forgetting to use Ruin 4. It feels like they have it but it is just there for no reason.
As happy as I am with EW SMN, I will always miss what I had with Heavensward Summoner. They could honestly bring most of that kit back for a Chemist DPS Job and i'd play that too. There was just something about Bio/Miasma/Shadow Flare/Bane/Contagion management that was super satisfying.
100% this
When it dropped I was in love with it, now that I've had playtime...I am in the camp that it's bordering on boring. Just casting ruin/rite over and over and over again, sure the 90 primal summons are cool but eh.
Yeah I'm ultimately just not happy that new primals effectively force you to spam one button, and that button changes between fast gcd, instant gcd with weaving ogcd, and mega long cast time.
Its still one button am chained to for 60% of rotation.
jup, that's why I ended up not leveling the job first in EW.. I chose BLM and I couldn't be happier about how deep and nice it is!
I need a job that needs to be at least semi complex or so well fit together that it's just stupidly fun (RDM for example, man, it's so nice).
SMN plays like a MCH for me, but less fun.. it is weird.. and MCH is more fun too imo.
That being said, I am happy for anyone who enjoys the job. It's not for me but I have found another job to enjoy instead. If it wasn't for SMN being so boring to me I would've never tried other jobs that bring me joy.
The aesthetic of the job is sick though. Too basic and on the brink of being barren to me.
I want them to add the 3 other primals. Shiva, Ramuh and Leviathan. ❤️ And they need to correct emerald carbuncle to green instead of blue.
>Make emerald carbuncle green
Tell me you haven't played other Final Fantasy games without telling me you haven't played other Final Fantasy games.
@@LordFinkenstein emerald is a stone of green color. The air element is represented in the game by the green color. Garuda is green. So it would be suiting to have emerald carbuncle to be green. When you summon the normal carbuncle, it is blue. Ruby carbuncle is red. Topaz carbuncle is yellow. And emerald carbuncle is blue even though it is pictured green on the action button.
I leveled it to 90 with the story, wasn't crazy about it but didn't hate it. Thought it was a bit easy. Then I did around 5 expert dungeons with it and I have no interesting in playing it again. It is very simplistic in its rotation, and there is little to no way to differentiate yourself from other summoners. There is no "skill expression" to the job. Just that bit of playing was enough for me to move on to more interesting DPS with higher levels of difficulty.
The skill expression comes on harder fights with downtime phases and where you have to do other things.
Because there's so little room in the rotation, a summoner who understands the exact importance of every skill and knows the fights back and forwards can drop the least impactful skills from the rotation to get more of the higher impact skills out before downtime/demi comes off cooldown.
I'm glad you brought up all of my concerns about new SMN Haps. There's a lot I'm not too excites about, but the fact they changed my favorite job so that other people will play it is a huge slap in my face. And with the loss of DoTs, a huge expression of skill has been lost on this job. I'll admit, something needed to give on old Summoner, but they basically stripped away half it's old kit and left it on the cutting room floor; I know I'm not the only old Summoner main who dropped the job because they took away the stuff I enjoyed in favor of satisfying people who weren't playing it.
Never had a problem with pre-endwalker SMN… I’m sad that it’s never coming back :(
I feels you man ..sad old summoner main here ..
Since ARR, I hated SCH so I only play SMN. During Shadow, I picked it back up and had a small change of heart, it wont be my main choice, but i can appreciate it more. But when EW dropped... it was boring, your 'summon' Carbuncle is the most useless thing in the game. It sits there only to get access to stuff that might as well not require it. I would say Carbuncle is more useless than Undraw at this point. TLDR; Hate the changes, boring as heck, would pick Scholar after not playing it in 6+ years.
yeah i totally get you. towards 5.5, hell towards 5.3, smn was rounding out to be a very fun and coherent job. your dot and fight downtime determined your opener and trance timings, your filler phase was trying to weave aetherflow/fester and move without overcapping egi assaults and ruin4s, your bahamut phase was a test of how well you managed to hold onto those 4 ruin stacks and both bahamut and phoenix let you move around a good amount without giving you too much movement and it was mainly minding enkindle's long animation to prevent ghosting
everything flowed together nicely, everything had a purpose, everything connected or had an interaction with each other. it's the complete opposite of endwalker smn
@@aliasonarcotics Even then, i purposely throw 2-3 Ruin 4's just so when I have an assault ready and I need to run, I know I wont waste it if I need to run. Old Summoner needed time, practice, and knowledge of your kit. Like the tactition idea that the quests throw at SMN/SCH. You were never meant to be busy or fast paced, you were literally trying to control the battlefield with Garuda/Titan's aoe and Shadowflare.
I am one of those, sadly now former, Summoner mains now that preferred and adored the ShB variant of the job. Sure it had a lot of buttons (which was part of the appeal to be honest), but it also had clear phases where you built up to a big release, namely Egi Assaults/Further Ruins into Summon Bahamut. There was the odd ruin 3 spam window after Phoenix which I feel was a missed opportunity to add another primal summon to make it a nice three part cycle. Would have been cool to be able pick which primal you summoned for that third phase too.
I agree with you though, class fantasy wise it's never been better and it's obscenely cool to look at. I just hope they reintroduce systems that you have to manage again at some point. The DoTs were a nice use if classic Final Fantasy black magic spells that didn't quite fit into Black Mage like bio. Hope to see the return of some of the old kit, but I won't hold my breath. Either way I'm excited for the future of the job.
Totally agree, just got to 90 with SMN and it's super fun and smooth. Is it probably the easiest class in the game? Sure. Is it fun to play? Sure.
Yes and no
*SMN, fighting with the most powerful and evil beign on the moon*
Carbuncle, chilling in the corner: damn bro that's crazy
I think the most fun part about SMN right now is that every Ifrit/Titan/Garuda phase feels a bit different with one being long casts, other one being normal gcd instacasts with ogcds and the other being fast gcd instacasts.
If i compare SMN to RDM. Both jobs are quite easy to play. But while SMN feels easier to me, it also feels a bit more satisfying. (mostly due to the big primal summons.)
I honestly miss some of the dot upkeep management. I only started SMN during shb, but I really loved watching the timer and knowing when to refresh it. Now I just mash everything and bringing out the summons is fun, but I really miss those small management bits. Fester/Pain doesn't do anything now aside from extra frontloaded damage, so its just boringly there. I would love something just applying a dot on these skills. Doesn't have to refresh, but it should do /something/.
I always thought it would be fun to have the big summon come out, leave behind the egi, and have some control over that for like 30s. Using Titan Claps with a shield weaved in there for self or party member; Ifrit > dash > egi assault on a separate cooldown or something. While it would probably help with some ogcd issues, it would add spell clutter and would probably be detrimental in the longrun.
I'm hoping for some QOL changes in the future, so holding out!
I am in the camp that appreciates the simplicity. The 1/2 button spam with a few other buttons and cooldowns sprinkled in when they are up feels closer to Isometric ARPG complexity and that's a nice comfy spot to be in for me and no doubt many others.
Dancer filled that niche for me before, but having an easy class available from level 1 rather than 60 is gonna be huge for new players.
I think they could still have the Egi pop out and stay out for the duration of the Rite activity, with the Abilities of the carbuncle given to them as well. Give them different effects while they're attacking, based on whether an AOE or Single Target effect was use. Potentially having the shield give different effects based on what's out at the time, giving it a risk-reward system to using it. like say:
Ifrit/ruby - damag reflect or heat-radiating dot on a certain small radius around the player that bursts when broken or dissipated.
Titan/topaz - higher potency/durability shield - With an Arm's Length like effect added to it (probably adding a slow duration to any target that hits the summoner)
Geruda/emerald - Something like SCH's Expedient, but only effective on the player, to reflect it's quick casts, maybe even it reduces the cast time of Astral Flow modifier, maybe even Effectively functioning like Leylines.
Added some more detailes to a relevant reddit thread.
I think this is as close to FFXI SMN in FFXIV that I'm ever gonna get. I loved rotating summons to buff/ deal damage. I just hope we keep getting more summons, like Shiva and Ramuh
Ramuh and Leviathan I could see, but for story reasons I wouldn't really expect to see Shiva as a summon the player can use.
@@lynnmatsui how can you talk about story reasons when we summon alphinauds grandpa every minute? Job lore doesnt exist anymore, or does someone knwo why MCH learns to build a robot while leveling with fates in ahm areng?
@@ich3730 haha, I hadn't even thought about that. You're not wrong, but I kinda feel like it's a bit different since the Phoenix part of the story is optional whereas everyone has to learn about Shiva. I dunno, I'm gonna just go push my Louisoix button and question the meaning of life now.
@@lynnmatsui We should just be able to turn into Shiva some time after HW (or maybe Shb Eden), that would be fun
@@lynnmatsui Louisoix became Phoenix, anything is possible
I really enjoy the new smn, it's what I've been waiting for...but I will say that I do miss having dots and I hate the fact carbuncle is just there for no reason practically, would be nice for just simple auto-attacks. I don't mind that pheonix is a bit weaker, the rotation feels a lot smoother now then what it was with dreadwyrm trance.
NGL As someone who has played SMN since 2.0 I love the new SMN. To me it always felt like the summoning aspect of the job was not important and my job was mainly to dot everything, spam ruin 3 and rez healer incase they go down. However I do miss Shadow Flare and Mana Shift.
Y'know what? I hope we eventually get a second set of gems for the post-phoenix phase.
That way we still keep the OG 3 egis alongside 3 NEW summons. Give us maybe Ramuh/Levi/Susano/Etc 2nd set of gem use. That'd be fun as HELL.
I was really thinking this, summon II instead of powering our summons could just change the summon over phoenix phase to ramuh/levi/shiva and having diferent astral flow
It went from one of the more exciting jobs to one of the most boring jobs in the game imo. The foundation has been laid though and I hope they manage to build upon it in a way that makes sense.
I just want physick to be on par with vercure. My big pet peeve is abilities that become useless as you level up.
@bmo i think vercure was a mistake by SE allowing Rdm to self heal. While i never want any class to be nerfed, rdm is an outlier. Its the only dps class that can res instantly and self cure twice for 400 potency each. No where near a healer potency and mana efficiency but thats why rdm can be so good as backup prog "healer".
And that's all it has for it. Great for prog. After you've done it, whoever was RDM will jump to the bigger DPS jobs without touching RDM for that raid again since all the utility it brings is now useless.
As someone who used to be a SMN/SCH main, I loved ShB SMN, it had just the right amount of controlling your pet/summons and casting your own that felt satisfying for me. With EW, the complete change just didnt interest me. It feels like Im just spamming GCDs. Swapped to BRD mostly now.
I liked ShB summoner... when Aetherflow lined up and I had WeskAlber's guide on the other monitor. After a while, I realised that I was kidding myself.
From Piano job became 3 button job
As someone who mained SMN from ARR to SHB, I believe they are going in the right direction with this job and have finally allowed us to live the fever dream of actually summoning cool shit. That being said, even though I agree with you that they have laid a very solid foundation for them to build upon for upcoming expansions, I'm of the opinion that dumbing down the job THIS much was a mistake.
Sure, the foundation is solid and very easy to build upon for future expansions, but I also feel like they've cheated us a little bit. Admittedly, the summoner should have been designed like this from the VERY beginning. Summoners are about summoning cool shit, not throwing dots everywhere, and I believe that, if it had been designed correctly from the very start, we would have AT LEAST had three more primal summons, or another demi-summon, or even both, which honestly I don't think is too greedy to ask for considering the pace at which the job developed from Stormblood to Shadowbringers (going from Bahamut to Phoenix).
It's amazing that they fixed the job and have made the aesthetics and the abilities fall in line with what Final Fantasy summoners are about, but for a job that has been in the game SINCE ARR, giving us only the "foundation" for the job, while taking away most of the complexity around it, is a little unfair to those who previously loved summoner for its complexity. Don't just give us the foundation, give us the foundation PLUS the cool shit that we honestly deserve.
At the very least, if they absolutely insist on not giving us more primal summons for this expansion, giving us a few more oGCDs, such as by giving us an extra Ifrit-themed oGCD to use in between Crimson Cyclone and Crimson Strike, or by giving us more shit to weave in between demi-summon + energy-drain and fester combo, will give the job some of the OOMF it currently lacks in my opinion. Red mage currently feels so much better to sync down to below 86 with, plus it deals more damage AND has better utility and oGCDS up the wazoo at the same time, which I just feel is plain BS. I don't mind it if SMN becomes about as easy to use as RDM, but don't make it SIGNIFICANTLY easier, please.
THAT BEING SAID, I do disagree with you on one point: the rigidity of having to choose between the three primals and not skipping straight to the next demi is good job design IMO. You mention that it feels really bad if you find yourself having summoned the wrong primal, and now you suddenly can't cast ruby rite because a mechanic forces you to move. This is a GOOD thing, because it is the only aspect about the job that gives it any complexity, and this is why SMN feels so good to bring into hard content, whereas it gets a little too boring in most easy content. When you cock up the order of a summon, then sure it FEELS bad, but you're supposed to learn from that, so that next time you reach that mechanic, you know that you should summon Titan for max mobility to keep your uptime. I gotta tell you (even though you probably already know this), in extreme trial #2, summoning Ifrit just as the boss signals you to get ready for spread, then going under the boss, casting ruby rite, going away from the boss, then weaving in the ruin IV you've been saving just for that situation, casting the other ruby rite while the mechanic goes off, then jumping STRAIGHT back in front of the boss and smacking the shit out of it feels GREAT, man. It's good that you need to time your summons for specific mechanics. It makes it feel a little more like a BLM in the sense that you have to time your abilities around the mobility allowed by the boss mechanics.
I think they could do something with Fester interacting with the primals. Ifrit for burst, Titan for a mini Addle (defensive), and Garuda for dot. Since you get Energy Drain/2-stacks of Fester once a min (every Demi cycle), you can wait and pick and choose which you want. The Burst can be for your 2-min Bahamut reopeners, and the Dot can be after Phoenix or something.
I think all its animations and attack kit at level 90 need to be made available at lower levels, like level 60 perhaps. Makes a clean logic to upgrade to Demi-Bahamut with the 3 primary primals established, and their gameplay distinctions need to be felt as early as possible too. They need to keep the current new stuff in the new level range, so I understand that that may be a task whose proper time is later. And to make up for lost depth, give them 3 Aetherflow again, let Ruin IV replenish Aetherflow, or get rid of the Aetherflow aspect entirely in favor of some other oGCDs. And then Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva come out for a finisher attack that you can mix and match with other summon phases (Ramuh already has egis in the form of Grey Arbiter), and Alexander may as WELL be the one that gives you your Radiant Aegis shield buff.
I've been thinking they could use crystal shards as part of their unaspected attack animations, them being the catalysts for summonings, it's long past time for Fester to go, and Physick while we're at it. I also think you need to see the primals themselves for a little longer instead of showing up for just one attack. Maybe their aspect can appear over your shoulders? Not following around like a pet, but sort of like an aura spirit, or it can show up briefly for Gemshine attacks like reaper's Bloodstalk. Really though, I think FF12 is actually the game that did summons best since they follow you around for an extended time, have a bunch of their own unique attacks, and an awesome finisher, and I haven't seen any FF games before or after do it as good as 12 did. Also, kinda funny how they long cast Ruin II now but scholar's Ruin II is still instant. Should scholar even have any Ruins at all anymore, I wonder... Just give it an instant Broil.
On another note, there were some aspects of old machinist I was attached to, like their unique twist on the 1-2-3 combo with ammunition, and it felt a little simple but they could add new stuff later, but even with this new expansion machinist is still super super simple. I think machnist and summoner now both have the lowest amount of buttons in the game, even. For machinist, they could have zazzed it up by making Spread Shot combo into Scattergun for a 1-2 AoE combo, instead of the shotgun replacing it entirely. New attack, yet still just one button, and you never get to see the rapid fire ever again other than synced down? There's room for additive actions for machinist before we need to get to replacements. Paladin funnily enough had so many buttons already that it got an entire expansion without adding a single new button. And you would think a machinist would be a little more technical than a knight. Give it some forcefields, mines, and grenades, or a plasma/laser gun. Let it place multiple turrets on top of the robot.
What does he mean when he keeps saying something about all the jobs being on 60s and 120s?
Because most buffs are at 120 seconds, classes are designed with that in mind. Essentially, all your abilities can be set up to be ready at 120 seconds, when all the damage buffs come in. At 60 seconds, there's usually a small window where a lot of abilities are ready, as well.
One of my main issues is that many of the skill for summoners do not change all the way to 90. There is a crazy vaccuum to get anything new. Its all aesthetically pleasing but man, phase where nothing is happening between bahamut and arcanum is so distracting because of the lack to really do anything there. If a DOT was allowed during this phase that had a 60 second timer and could only be used after Arcanums it would really allow for at least a bit more variety. As a controller player, all of a sudden i have 6-8 empty slots and if something could be added it would be great. Summoner is incredibly repetitive now with no real room to go anywhere. As I just started with Sage, i love the variety of stuff i can do. Dont need a bunch of heals in a dungeon DOT and keep moving, need heals? Eukrasion Diagnosis, Pepsis, kerachole, Damage mitigation and damage heal buff to keep it going. As much as i like the new Summoner i cant help but not love it when Sage seems just as joyfully complicated but fun. Who knows maybe we'll get something down the road, but right now, Summoner and Its poor brother Scholar need a bit more time in the oven. Sage is awesome though, so if y'all want a replacement to complicated and variety try that.
If feel one of the main factors to smn's lowered dps really is because of the loss of its dots, even if they just added one of them back I feel that'd help- my main idea is that if they didn't want to give it bio again they could have atleast let ifrit's hell fire still apply the burn dot from before. I'll admit though I still like playing the class even now i will miss how much more busy and precise it felt before with its management.
More likely they taxed the dps because of the extreme mobility they have now. They're basically a physical ranged job at this point.
As a scholar main I've never been into my twin job. It was only a free max level DPS and tbh I've never played it that much.
However I love the new summoner. Even though you only have the illusion of variety in the rotation as you pointed out I love how it feels to spin through the summons, even the small ones, and have different visual effects and attacks.
But I have to agree that this almost complete overhaul can be frustrating for ppl who liked the older version of the job. Maybe the Devs could find some middle ground by bringing back some DOTs for example. Or another way I would love to see it is implementing a second set of summons who have the dot attacks. I mean we have ruby, topaz and emerald right now, why don't get other gems like saphir for leviathan, opal for shiva and amethyst for ramhu ?
IMO Ifrits spells having that long of cast times should be hitting hard like Black Mage spells are do not like trading having to not move on Summoner and basically hitting for the same damage as the spells I can move with. Also I feel like the potency of Fester is low.
Wasn't fester buffed? Don't need the dots to be doing the 300 potency now.
If Fester is gonna be such low unimpressive potency, they ought to give it more than 2 uses per 60 seconds. Their reducing Aetherflow to 2 stacks in ShB never jived with me, feels neutered, that's pre-level 50 stuff
Maybe you can help with this, How do I solo tough mobs with summoner? I'm currently on the job quest "A book with bite" and it spawns a nasty elemental that hits like a ton of bricks and i have no way to slow/kite it and no tank (unless I respec my chocobo and hope it holds agro), any advice?
Interesting that you didn’t mention that Energy Drain and the Aetherflow abilities in general just feel vestigial now. They’re SO divorced from the rest of the new kit that it’s kind of ridiculous that they kept them in at all.
That’s only cause it’s still tied to scholar, which is tied to arcanist…so it makes sense why it’s still there
I love new summoning animations, but I'm no fan of making job easier since they already to easy enough and now smn is like a physical ranged. Also I'm a fan of dots. Heavensward-ARR my favorite time manage dots
I really hope they add a DoT caster next, but they shouldn't have killed old SMN and not have anything lined up to replace it in the first place.
Ruin III which you barely use and Ruby Rite being your only casts, yeah, summoner is so mobile to the point of feeling like a physical ranged DPS than a caster. If it were the actual summons themselves doing those attacks that would be fine, since summoners should just be a commander for a force that isn't themselves. Maybe the summons themselves should have a cast time? It would feel more satisfying when they finally do come out, summons are always a long suspenseful cast in every FF game
All I hope for is that our next Magical Ranged DPS apes Arcanist/Summoner/Scholar's DoTs and goes full dedicated DoT mage.
Geomancer, Necromancer, Magus. . . just something for those poor souls that lost their job in EW.
Geomancer somewhat exist as well with the astrologian job quest story.
Imagine the BIGGEST MOST DAMAGING DOT!!! With a cool animation for every tick... Maybe Doom could be a crazy DoT
Thanks .. i am a poor soul
@@SlimeyCube26 Yeah; it sort of is also an Othard White Mage equivalent in that one extra dungeon.
But; like Red Mage, I'm sure they could flesh it out over time. I could see it being a DoT mage that picks up the water and wind torch of Conjurer.
Loved your thoughts on Phoenix being weaker.
I’ve played SMN almost exclusively until ShB when I leveled most the other jobs above 70s. When my friends would convince me to play WoW in past years (no more!) I would always say a downside was picking a class, and sticking to it. In FFXIV I never had that issue, because I loved SMN that much. I loved the little intricacies of minmaxing it, the excessively long 100 page long Ahk Morning guides- these are the things that compelled me and many others.
I leveled it 80-90, did the ex/raids, and have now entirely switched to RDM. I hate the new SMN. There is a difference between ‘simple’ (DNC, SAM, MCH, etc) and this. It’s just….. empty. The kit feels like when you go into pvp and your entire combo is thrown onto 2 buttons. There are no places to improve, weave, mix up the order, save cooldowns, change positionals, manage dots, manage your pet and it’s intricacies… nothing to separate you from others. It’s just. The same spells in a neverending circle.
I was SO hyped from the first look of the updates to SMN which likely set myself up for disappointment. I still enjoy the new aesthetics of it all. But that’s about it.
I get why some people don't like ot, I love the visuals, personally, I would cut down on all the instant casts and give it more damage, that's my only issue, it feels very weird to do less damage than a RDM, which ironically is the least mobile caster now, never thought I'd see the day. I like the direction they're heading, but it's almost a phys ranged with the damage output and almost all instant casts. It honestly reminds me of DNC, which I don't hate but was not what I expected I guess.
Why is RDM less mobile than BLM?
Dot skills doesn't suit summoner but they could use those to make a complete new job like a witch doctor or something in the future. I am happy summoner is actually summoning now. All they need to do is to fine tune it to make it more interesting to play with.
I miss the DOT SMN. I loved it, it was fast paced, chaotic, and had lots of room to min/max your play and coming from DOTA it was the only job (besides SCH) I found engaging enough to keep my attention.
Now it's just aoe/dd until pet charges come up, aoe/dd again bUt WiTh PeTs, rinse/repeat.
I feel like if they want to take the job this direction the pets need more importance to which one you pick besides effectively being a skin for Carbuncle while you spam the same dd/aoe spells but "InFuSeD wItH eArTh/FiRe/WiNd AsPeCt". Elements in general don't seem to really matter in FF combat. It's just flavor text rather than an actual mechanic. What if each pet augmented the spells to have an effect alongside their damage. Like wind aspect applies a DOT, earth does a stun or knockback, something like that could help the job feel a little more open again instead of so rigid
I know it would be a nightmare to code but imagine if your default pet would be your auto-attack(ranged ofc)
probably not though, as carby isnt out 100% of the time. just an idea to make the pet seem more.... "engaged?"
Missing the DoTs and would love some oGCDs...
But on the other hand, the 2 casts for Ruby Rite excluded, there's pretty much no need to stand still anymore, just keep on moving around the whole fight!
It feels a bit weird with summoner & red mage since before endwalker red mage felt like the more mobile one since you could move between every other spell while waiting for the GCD, and now it feels like the summoner is the more mobile because they can keep doing their Ruin IV and Titan/Garuda rites and bahamut/phoenix phases while moving.
What bugs me with the job is that rotation wise Bahamut and Phoenix are literaly the same.
Many people dropping ideas to fix smn, here is mine (more like a list of many opinions in one place):
1. Make ruin 3 cast time same as gcd again, there is NO REASON to have it less so you can single weave...you dont weave anything
2. Garuda spells should be hardcasted. Make the concept of ifrit is heavy cast, garuda is smaller cast and titan instant casts
3. Make ruin 4 and energy drain usefull during ALL summons. For example, make energy drain reset every time you summon ANYTHING and even change the spells during those summons for extra flashy effects and keep ruin 4 proc but instead change ruin 4 to another summon specific spell.
4. To add up to point 3, make combo spells for baha and phoenix like shb phoenix. Make the first spell hardcast and second instant as combo, by changing ruin 3 (already happens) and ruin 4 . It will make the job more fun positioning yourself well to hardcast stuff and feel like a caster
Edited for spell names
I'm still surprised that no one has mentioned the potential utility in choosing the right summon at the right time. It's not like it's super deep or anything, but I like being able to choose what to summon depending on the situation. I've had some very satisfying Ifrit charges during trial 2 EX and enjoy popping Titan when I know heavy movement is coming.
Exactly this. Knowing that the waves will start soon and popping titan for the mobility and switching to ifrit as it's dps-mid-time etc. felt very satisfying.
you can still move plenty with ifrit. you only need to hardcast one spell, which you should do first as soon as you summon ifrit if there's nothing going on and you have no buffs to capitalise on. then you get a gapcloser, melee and swiftcast the last ruby rite, plenty of movement. on top of that, you can dump your 1 ruin3 filler (which lets you slidecast) and ruin4 inside ifrit as well. I don't feel like ifrit is that punishing even if you use it wrongly and i've used ifrit in lightwaves without an issue
@@aliasonarcotics You can make Ifrit work, but that costs you a swiftcast (which I always save during prog) and you don't really have control over where you charge, so it's uncommon but positioning can screw you during Ifrit (think trial 1 EX). My initial point I suppose was just that you have a little bit of pre-thinking you can do before just popping summons randomly and it can feel satisfying.
Summoner should have Phoenix and Bahamut as separate buttons but share a recast so you can choose between damage or utility. As is it's very restrictive.
Sounds like an amazing idea on paper...but NOBODY would use Phoenix then cause "muh dps lose". They should ad an equivalent of Deathflare for SMN or make the whole phoenix phase have more potency, its not normal than Phoenix phase has less dps than Bahamut.
@@royox I understand. But it's about having the option. Just like you can choose between ITG. That's all. That said I think SMN DPS is low? I think RDM does more dps now. Concerning.
@@MagiusNecros nothing that cannot be solved in a patch.
I miss my DoTs, to be honest. Takes away a certain level of involvement to not be monitoring them and keeping them up as needed, especially since it let you keep SOME form of damage up during the points where you can't realistically attack the boss and get away at the same time.
I’m glad mrhappy realized the same thing I did, Phoenix shouldn’t have a heal on his astral flow especially since it makes bahamut the only summon you want to start with your raid buff.
I also really hate how Garuda and ifrit feel like so much extra work for not more damage than Titan. Just feels ehhh for needing to have longer cast times. Also please please please fix Garuda astral flow!!! I hate that it snap shots the spot the enemy is in when you start the cast for the ground aoe and doesn’t place the aoe wherever the enemy gets hit after the long cast time
As someone who cannot afford good internet and play on horrific 300 ping I appreciate simple jobs :3
Also people must remember this is the newest SMN, and it will build up as we continue over the expansion :D
No it won't, jobs don't get new abilities mid expansion aside from a few specific instances where they added back things they took away.
@@LordFinkenstein I said "Over" the expansion, meaning, when the expansion is over, and beyond. This is 100% always the case. How I see it as, similarly, is like the story that had come to ending. Summonner old job, came to ending too... now, we build up story in different way, while, Summonner... will build up along the way (I do think they will buff SMN, they HAVE to buff smn because Pheoenix is ridiculous weak) but the real changes, even in story comes with expansion, and so, it evolves... well, that's how I see it ^^
However! I will point out your theory is no longer correct mister! This, was true at all trimes until a year ago when they randomly changed Monk's job mid expansion! hehehe... but that was indeed rare ^^ I just look forward to how SMN from now on will evolve! It may be boring now, but it was also boring when level 50 was cap ! So, let's look positive forward, and please, I tell this to everyone, suggest any ideas or thoughts to Yoship, submit in forum or ingame support desk ^^
The healing on Phoenix makes sense as it fits with how the summon has worked in past games (minus the full party revive I guess since this isn't FF11)
Speaking of 11, they actually have room now to fashion SMN more closely after 11's version and I sincerely hope they do so.
Not so much in the having a big fancy avatar out all the time (though I'd love that) but rather, from here on having every single one of Summoner's new abilities be a function of a Primal and really give the job more utility so that it can compete with RDM.
Like I sorely miss how in 11 SMN had TONNES of blood pacts for various party effects (Stoneskin from Titan, Haste from Garuda etc.) so it really would be cool to have let's say Ravana called to grant the party a huge damage boost.
Now that the stupid poison mage identity is dead and buried at last, they can focus on going ham with the lore and history of the job and it would be absolutely criminal if they didn't.
I feel like pheonix's GCDs could be bumped up in potency slightly to make up for the lack of deathflare. Also, making all of the Astral Flow things OGCD instead of havinge Ifrit's and Garuda's on it would help the between-trance flexibility a ton.
I think the 3 summons playing different is what makes the job feel better. Like yeah in a perfect world the rotation is pretty rigid but a lot of the time im in situations where Im not going to get a full ifrit off in time for my next summon so ill use titan instead for its mobility. I like that the flexibility comes from using the right summon at the right time
@@gearhead417 I'm not saying get rid of the differences between the summon's rites or how titan's astral flow interacts, just clean up that weird 3s cast for slipstream and possibly make Ifrit's crimson cyclone/strike an off-global to keep that button consistent
As a summoner level 90. I feel so bored with the class now. I don’t pay attention to animations so I just pay attention to the rotation and fight so honestly I miss old summoner. I loved the complexity and many things you had to manage. It’s used to be one of my favorite jobs now it seems like so far the worst. I only have all physical and smn/sch at 90.
Yeah I agree with you here, I really enjoyed the flexible complexity it used to have, it made you feel really good when you really knew the job, I remember holding stacks of Ruin IV and using their instant cast to dodge mechanics in Hades and keep up time in farm parties and a few days later when joining another farm being remembered by someone for doing so and it was a really awesome feeling. Now it feels like there isn’t much skill involved anymore.
@@themagicalcat6828 yeah lol I saw it coming when I saw the trailer. Hopefully they do something else in the next expansion to give the complexity back again. It’s what us old summoner lovers love.
I severely dislike this rework to a degree where most people would disagree, but that comes from a position of loving the old summoner and having that yanked overnight. I just can't get over how utterly empty and lifeless the job feels. The big fancy summons are, ironically, hollow. I don't get the kick out of it like others do because I don't feel like there's any ramp-up or build-up to these big summons, just push the button and they appear. Sure they *look* powerful and deal a pretty big hit, but it happens so frequently at such little effort that these really epic summons got stale very quickly for me.
As for how the job plays, I feel it needs so much more. There's barely any resource management, little to no optimization, everything is rigid, once I hit the striking dummy for about 20 minutes I pretty much got all there was to get. Not to mention it's even more repetitive than before. That kind of bummed me out, but perhaps that's a personal preference. I was a sucker for the level of optimization and numerous minor tweaks you could do to old summoner, and there's almost nothing to do for optimization on the new iteration.
As for the balancing, Square has walked themselves into a rock and a hard place. Since the job is so simple, far simpler than any DPS job we've seen thus far at max level, they're probably reluctant to make it any higher in damage since the job is TOO safe. If they made the job more powerful, it kind of raises the question of why bring a black mage or a red mage if they're going to be higher risk? It's a bit of a strange conundrum born out of the job being too easy at the moment.
Idk, I'm really bummed out by this. The best I can do is just to drop my main for the time being and move onto others.
I had 3 summoners in the party for the final trial of the MSQ and was so confused as I hadn’t played with an endwalker summoner 💀
that was me in the second trial, especially since the red and green from dawn mantle.. I was like wait what do ifrit and garuda mean the boss did a different move that time
@@marslara I was super confused at first because primals kept dropping in behind me on a loop.
@voidsent im more worried of titans cheeks getting R rating ban complaints from young players. Other than that i hope to see people get annoyed from said summons covering the screen with bare cheeks blinding raid to death.
I was that guy that actually liked the previous SMN rotation. I tried the new one out on a dummy at my FC and just couldn't deal with how different it is. I don't see myself playing SMN anymore unfortunately
I feel like they should make Ifrit’s phase entirely melee, make Ruby Rite instant cast but with melee range, I feel like theres no reason for Crimson Cyclone -> Crimson Strike to bring you into melee range, especially considering Ruby Rite is a long cast time, which I generally wanna be far away and safe for.
Sure I use it every blue moon to dash inside a donut AoE, but its so unreliable, since I’d need to have already been in Ifrit phase when I need to dash.
SMN has been my main since I started the game several years ago, and I cant say I’m super happy with the changes, they feel cool, but they are such a different job, I do kinda feel that the job I really loved was taken from me.
i would like to add that for right now going with low sps is better than high sps cuz you want to target your sps based on the fights and we don't know what the savages will look like and with a sps that doesn't match up with the fight, it ends up being less dps than the low sps build
As far as the dots go they should put them on the summons. When you summon Ifrit and he does inferno that could put a burn dot on the target and the same with the other two.
@mirico garuda has "aero" dot ground spawn. But i agree. They should bring back smn dot dps as well. Right now alot of dotting classes lose their dots which seem odd and might be due to player complaints about it being meaningless. Yet alot of rpgs dots are central to some classes identity such as necromancers or druids in WOW.
I like it being a bit more "simple", though I think the black mages rotation isn't any harder, bm just has to hardcast and gets less mobility by doing that.
More summons might be cool, but I am really happy with it as it is right now.
Basically, yes. I'm omnicaster and it *baffles* me how people call SMN simpler than BLM and RDM! Both of these jobs have a simple base to work with, and haven't really changed much in the past three expansions.
Black Mage has two phases that don't change much outside of where you place your Xenoglossy and Thundercloud casts. Six F4, one Para, one Despair in fire phase, switch to Ice, B4 and Paradox in ice, switch back, repeat. It's an exceedingly simple rotation that gets its maximization from spacing and timing, using your three main oGCDs to give it more speed or mobility.
Red Mage builds mana with proc usage and swapping between spells (or just layering the same-color spell if you have both procs and swapping between colors until you only have one proc), burning oGCDs so they don't overcap, and using your melee combo as soon as possible as mechanics allow. This is also very simple to execute and finds most of its maximization in: timing and position!
Summoner wants to pair Bahamut and Titan under Searing Light. It wants Swiftcast for Ifrit's Rite, or Garuda's Slipstream. It wants to use Arcanums up before the next Trance but doesn't want to delay that Trance. It wants to understand party makeup and fight progression because that changes how you use your Primals. It wants to understand when to use Addle, when to use Radiant Aegis, working with your healers for Rekindle and the party regen off Phoenix. It wants to fit Ruin IV under buffs, or at least use it before the next Energy Drain. The "rotation" has less clutter, but it still has so many decisions to be made to get the most out of it in a given situation: it has versatility and far more flexibility than people are giving it credit. And now, its maximization comes not from making strange backward choices (DWT on downtime just so Bahamut would be ready when the boss comes back. For example.) but from: spacing and timing. When to use a Primal for mobility or when to use it for damage.
It does need some tweaks, and I feel that as time goes on there will be changes to how the job flows in order to give it more time to use different and maybe even new abilities...Maybe a slow-down on how *often* you summon things...But as it is right now? It's in a good place. It still has a lot of choices to make. They just aren't esoteric and player-unfriendly anymore. They're intuitive now.
Would probably make sense to swap Bahamut and Phoenix around, so you get stronger once unlocking Bahamut.. But ye the gameplay could really use some weaving, dots or oGCDS to break up the monotony. The aestethic is everything I ever wanted from my summoner, but I am really contemplating not maining it this time around due to it's simplicity - simple can be good, but this version is a tad bland once you get over the bombastic visuals of the summons. I agree that it's a great base to build off tho!
EDIT: Rather than a potency bump on Ruby Rite, maybe add a dot component to it, that could impact it's usage in regards to other abilities to maximise dot uptime outside of Ifrit, the only issue of course being that the rotation is so busy, that weaving in some Ruin 3s inside Ifrit to extend the dot before refreshing would cost abilities somewhere else in the rotation.
How much dps loss are we talking by throwing away gcds in summon windows he mentioned? Like 5 seconds longer to kill zodiark or is it actually pretty serious like 20 seconds longer?
What is the location of the beginning of the video?
Swallow's Compass, SB dungeon
@@Mrhappy1227 thank you
I love the mobility of the Titan/Garuda phase and the gap closer of the Ifrit phase. SMN was my first class when I started back in August but honestly I love the changes. I struggled with my rotation when first picked it up. Now its much easier to know what you're supposed to do, and I'm able to cycle through the different summons with ease. Plus, I glammed all of my egi's to the emerald Carbuncle so its nice havingnthsy consistency. My only complaint is that they need to either buff Physick to RDM's standard, or make it a self-heal pet action that requires the Carbuncle out.
I'm just hoping I can make 1 casting gear set that is good on Summoner, Black Mage and Red Mage. I know SpS builds worked on blm in shadowbringers, but not on rdm.
I like the direction of the changes, but feel that the Primals need quite a bit more differentiation in their behavior so that there are situationally best times to pull the appropriate one out.
Right now that exists to a degree, but mostly at level 86 when the astral flow abilities change thing up somewhat, but I think the diferences need to be expressed more in the core abilities of each primal. Like maybe Ifrit = traditional caster, black mage like. Titan = close range, pbaoe, high mobility. Garuda = DoTs.
I mean that already is the case. If you know a boss is going to have a movement heavy mechanic, you don't want to use ifrit, if the boss is going to move, maybe not Garuda, and it feels bad blowing titan before I movement mechanic
Yup sorry edited my post before I saw yours. Agree, there is already some variation especially between Ifrit and Garuda/Titan. Just was hoping it would be more core to their abilities even before hitting 86.
I started off in a realm reborn, Arcanist/Summoner was one of my favorite classes to play along with lancer/dragoon. I felt satisfied the times where our healer or tank just dced from the dungeon and I used my own wits and knowledge to be able to 3 person some of the 4 player dungeons. It was a class that actively made me feel smart, but now it's a butchered spam, flashy class that is quite easy to use. I'm not saying it is a bad class by all means just that it is a butchering of how summoner was long ago.
I think what the job needs is a 3rd demi and then instead of the Demi's rotating you select which one to use and then that's on a 2 minute cooldown. Maybe have like Shiva and have it so she buffs your damage of your primals (via a debuff on your enemy). So it's a choice of do you want to use your heavy hitting bahamut, do you want to use your weaker Shiva but stronger primals or phoenix because you know raid wide damage is coming and you could do with the heals.
It really does seem like they simplified smn into what they wanted it to be so that it could be expanded later
Next expansion I want shiva, ramuh and levy after summoning phoenix :P
This job is actually easier than machinist now, which, you know that's not necessarily a bad thing but I do agree that maybe a few more buttons to make it more engaging would be good ESPECIALLY with how carbuncle just sits there and phoenix is a really weird DPS loss to unlock.
With regards to dots, you know I think that they should figure out a way to tackle the issues dots have in many gameplay situations first, like can you imagine the pain in the current extreme trials having to dot up an orb and it just shatters in the following two gcds xD maybe something like reapers death design where you get gauge for dotted up things dying would be good.