The 4 Squares Twilight Imperium: Fourth Edition - Prophecy of Kings First Impressions
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- Tom, Mike, Roy, & Buonocore share their First Impressions on the Prophecy of Kings Expansion for Twilight Imperium!
00:00 - Introduction
02:31 - Game overview
15:15 - Final thoughts
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Very glad you guys liked it. This game was play tested more than any other (non card game) FFG game. Each play tester averaged about 35 games (personally played about 50). Dane is an amazing designer with great ideas. I can't wait to work with him again and I hope FFG see's fit to let him head up more games in the future.
That's some serious play-testing! Impressive!
Where do we go with rules questions to get official answers?
@@eddieb8054 I guess post them on the BoardGameGeek forums and hopefully the FFG folk will answer stuff there.
@@eddieb8054 TI4 discord, reddit, bgg, or email ffg directly. For fastest and most accurate rules answers, id recommend the TI4 discord
@@matthewprovisor757 what’s the email for ffg. I had no idea there was an actual way to contact them. I’ve been trying to get an answer to a certain question for a hot minute. I’ve searched bgg for an hour while my friends ceased their friendship. It was a beautiful game. What’s the email?
Considering the size of the expansion (and the probability that PoK is the only TI4 expansion that will produced), I think Dane made a considered choice regarding the holistic nature. In this case, the absence of modularity is a feature, not a bug.
None of the material added in this expansion is fluff- each mechanic (exploration, mechs, leaders, legendary planets, etc.) adds something meaningful and thematic to the base game. An exceptional accomplishment by Dane & company.
Ghost of Creuss is not new, its in the TI4 base
They were an expansion race in ti3
Yeah, it threw me way off when Tom introduced Creuss as if it were new in PoK. Kind of shows he hasn't played all that much.
That was really confusing, once my fiancee almost always played that race! lol
@@benjaminnadeau7305 This isn't TI3
@@DreyfussFrost I get that.. Just thought that's where he got confused
I really thought for a second, that Zee has finally played TI4 :D
Same!
as well!
Thanks to Mike for rounding out the review with no preconceptions or expectations!!
Yes, and for once it wasn’t Roy in this role. 🙃
Dane Beltrami has, in several cases, discussed his reasoning for making this a "holistic" rather than modular expansion. I think it was absolutely the right decision, and that a modular expansion would be a mistake and a mess.
I absolutely loved the table meta bickering right at the end of this video - that’s what TI is all about 😂
Can't wait for the play-through vid! POST IT! :D
This is the second 4 squares video with Stephen Buonocore I've watched, and it's been a joy both times. It makes me very happy seeing you so relaxed and at ease, Stephen. I'm looking forward to your next contribution.
What was the other one? I thought I’d seen all the Four Squares videos....
@@DarthEd77 Oh, you're right. It wasn't a four squares video but a top ten video.
@@RadishTheFool Ah, OK. Cool. Thanks for the information.
thank you roy, it was missing the first X, I've been saying that so long!
love the soundtrack. thanks for bringing it back from Miami Dice
Yeah, Im always singing "Get up!" to my cat when it comes on. Its one of our favorites.
Love hearing the music again and like the new title of the "4 Squares"!
haven't played expansion yet- but from reviewing my set it fixes some balance issues (looking at you Winnu), and makes exploration finally added and meaningful.
The biggest negative you guys pointed is the greatest thing about this expansion, for me. It shows it is a well thought expansion and not just a bunch of new things thrown in together.
The review worked much better than I had expected with the variety of starting points from the four of you. I’ve only played TI4 (not TI3) six times so far and felt the game was rich, deep and creamy enough not to warrant my spending another chunk of cash on an expansion. However... I am now definitely interested in acquiring the expansion as the design ideas appear to improve and refine what for me was already a 10/10! Thanks guys.
I just got my PoK copy and had to come here to comment that FFG seem to have tweeked the model colors because now they match almost perfectly with my base copy.
I checked under diferent lights and still it was great. Even the upgraded strategy cards 2 and 4 look idéntical which was not the case in most videos Ive seen.
I was pleasently surpirsed by this.
Non-modular is great when there are distinct player races/powers because it opens the design space gives one race a really strong mech and a really weak flagship, and the designers can balance out in the whole expansion that way but if you only play with the flagships its not balanced. Balancing the collective expansion versus balancing out each module individually AND combinations of modules.
In a game without distinct player powers/races (Alhambra) it's much easier to balance modules.
Late to commenting here, but I finally got a chance to play the game with the expansion. I actually think it speeds up the game considerably. There are more options for scoring points and more resources being tossed around. In the end I think it has made the game at least a turn faster than it used to be.
I agree with Tom about wishing that some parts were modular, but I get the creator's idea that they wanted it to be all or nothing. It saves breaking the community up into small pools of players that play with this rules set or that combination of modules. Everyone is playing the same game in the end.
This is interesting. Roy is usually the new, fresh perspective with no context. This time Roy has the most experience by far and it was interesting to see Mike as a first time player too, and Steve as a past edition expert and Tom as a more casual player; really good spectrum of opinion here. Never played this, but I've heard about it all the time and it was an interesting watch.
I agree with having 4 reviewers, bringing varied experience and perspectives. It gives a better, diverse, understanding of the game.
Tom is right about the modularity. I wish it had been modular.
My group loves this game. We get a 4 to 6 player game done in around 4 hrs.
Good for you? Not sure why you added the length of your games...
@@Phildiculous not sure why that bothers you enough to comment....
@@Phildiculous You mad, bro?
that is insane. My group plays space risk and we take 10 hours before someone passes 5 victory points lmao
Super presentation. The negative I have wither the expansion is that Fantasy flight has not released it for availability delivery prior Christmas delivery in Canada. So ; Eclipse will be what I can give as Christmas gifts for my sons. And .., we will not get involved in two mega games of the same theme types at these costs....
Feels bad talking about TI with Mr. Heeley
Man, that music reminds me of the Miami Dice days with Sam.
Mike and Roy has both been AMAZING replacing the third hole when Sam left. Really good chemistry
I occasionally play TI4 with a local group. We played this past Tuesday with this expansion. Yes, it makes the game longer but not by much. I like it.
No isolating where you are?
I found that it actually sped up game play as points and resources are more available.
I played my first game of PoK last Saturday. 14 point game with 6 players that had never played together. We were done in 7h 50m.
Played it today for the first time.
I was great as always, and the expansion added a lot.
I just wanted to said that the rules overview of the expansion says that it actually make the game shorter.
They added more ways to get victory point while playing so you can get to the 10 points much more faster but yeah, If you are doing to do a lot of negotiation and you need to take your time because you are not familiar with the new stuff it will take more time.
Just think that if you do preps about the new races and techs in advance you will probably be able to play it faster.
I just played this for the first time ever, no prior plays of any edition and I think my opinion is similar to Mike‘s thoughts about “nothing was too much.” Is there a lot? Absolutely, but all of it is honestly quite easy to grasp (especially with a little effort to lessen the game beforehand and with someone guiding the game).
The game plays even faster with the expansion because you have so much more ressources at hand that the game last on average a game round less. And that it is all in or all out with this expansion is a good thing in my books, so the mechanics feel much more connected and not just like some mechanics that were thrown in.
Out of curiosity how long did it take the four of them to play their match? They talked at length about how the expansion makes the game longer but never actually mentioned the length.
Was this playthough they mentioned ever posted? I can't seem to find it...
Okay so I have no interest in TI4 at all but I wanted to chime in that I didn't realize this was the plan with the 4 squares and I hope there are more guest "squares" like this. What a great idea.
Buonocore is great but sad to see a video without Sam
this looks great and i really want it, but i've only once ever been able to convince my friends to play TI4 and it basically ended with a multi-player simultaneous rage quit half-way through (sadly, i'm the only one who likes games with direct conflict and negotiation)... so i don't know if i'll ever even get the base game back to the table, let alone with an expansion that complicates and lengthens the game :/
Did the play through ever get posted?
Is this the 1st review without a component drop? I couldn't find one before this.
Its easier to balance if they make you use everything
I thought I wouldn't like that none of the expansion is modular. BUT there is literally NOTHING in it that I would rather play without. Nothing in it I would choose to only have over anything else. The whole thing just works and I'll likely never play without it again.
I would win every game of TI4 if the other players just listened to me. I wish Sam came back for this one, he introduced to me to this amazingness.
Roy, as the biggest 4x fan, have you played Space empires 4x. Add the replicators expansion for a more visual effect.
I know your game is coming soon. I for one and few others are not into tons of minis for the sake of it and are preferring the standie, way.
If you haven’t played this you should, it could show you another way, besides, I would still like to hear your opinion on it.
But there's a video that tell how to play in 7 minutes. You can then pull 3 game sessions in only 21 minutes !
I always wonder why FFG doesn't use the TI universe for other, smaller games? (excluding REX)
Just look what happens when SW tries to do more... some things are not meant to be overly expanded.
They've tried but they all failed miserably. With TI4 being a huge success maybe they will try again.
So how many games with the expansion did you guys play before putting this REVIEW out?
I bet once, maybe twice only for Roy. The only problem with this expansion for me, it really is to spend this much on a game I can't play somewhat frequently.
I’ve only played TI3 twice, but I greatly enjoyed it each time. I’d buy TI4 and this expansion in a heartbeat if I just had a group willing to play this game with me. 🙁 The aspect that this expansion brings to TI4 that I’ve wanted the most is the exploration. I feel like this is the piece that’s been missing. You can’t have a 4X game with only 3 X’s! I also love the legendary worlds. That sounds like a great addition to the game.
Personally, I play and love TI3 as a two-player game. Gut the politics and it's still a beefy 2-3 hour game (depending on the galaxy you start with). I'd say you don't *need* a group per se, just a single willing participant and you get a lot of fun in a shorter timeframe.
@@ronnieballs8145 Unfortunately, I don’t even have one other person to play games with at the moment. 😞
Twilight imperium is such a polarizing game for me. In the sense that I'll never play the game because I don't want to sit there that long and don't think I'll like it as much. But I watch a lot of content on it for some reason. Lol
Time goes by really quick when playing, so it really seems like you aren't sitting there that long
You are never just sitting there. The game is incredibly engaging.
They just added the expansion content to the TTS mod. It is a lot easier to get a game in using TTS where you can run games over several sessions with people who are geographically distant.
This is something I think my group will try in January perhaps. Set a 4hr time limit each period.
Modules may be nice but it makes it vary hard to balance the game, it will demand ALOT of more playtesting to get it acceptable. Games with modules often leaves me wondering, what modules should I use to get a more balanced version? Its usually easier to just use them all :) But, if you don't mind some balance issues or all combinations is well tested and balanced then modules are great!
Balance wasn't the problem, it was design space. For example: you can not have an exploration faction, if you can decide to play without exploration. TI3 had this problem. Since almost nothing was allowed to interact with the modular components, they all felt very "tacked-on". Another problem was, that every time you played with a different group you could have a hour long discussion about what components to use and not use. Dropping the modular design in favor of a holistic on was the right idea.
@@duskwalker1 intersting, do you got a source\link?
@@snowjim I think the developers talked about this on there preview streams, both for TI4 and PoK. Could also have been in the documentary by Shut Up and Sit Down. It has been a hot minute, so I'm not exactly sure where this was addressed.
mike, thanks for showing up, though the 5th square should be zee, wonder why he's not there XD
I assume that he has not played twilight imperium.
I feel like PoK makes 2 other games totally obsolete: Eclipse and Settlers of Catan. Also I like the idea to provide players with more ressources and abilities. It definitelly adds more dynamics to the game and motivates people to undertake moves they would not be making normally.
Still for TI4 it is extremelly important to have a nice friendly community of people aiming to have fun and spend great time rather than to eat each other alive.
I am utterly shocked that Mike played the game at all, let alone enjoyed it?
Who played what? How many other players? Who won? How long did the session take ?
The biggest problem with the expansion is the price, holy crap. The additional player components are so unneeded too, most people arent going to get an 8 player game going so it just inflates the price so much more. I wish they just sold those separately, its not like they add to the mechanics of the expansion right?
I can barely fit the base game back in its box. I must be doing it wrong :P
I know what you mean! I took the useless insert out completely. My components are just in baggies, but it works way better.
Please tell me you guys recorded your playthrough?
They mentioned they would be posting the play-thru vid soon. Yay!
@@cklester I made the amateur mistake of not waiting till the end lol.
I really need more plays if TI4 :(
I prefer expansions that are all or nothing. It gives me the feeling of actually playing the game and not homebrewing.
Do they have a metal cube baby? Lol
where is ZEE?! :D
Enjoying his 8 hours off.
Any chance this game will go digital
i wish
There is a mod on TTS (tabletop simulator, look it up on Steam), and a Discord :)
This game needs a straight purpose.
Victory points doesn't do it for what it ask as investment.
Those triangular cards seem kinda dumb, like why to just make them rectangular
Zee looks different
I wanted Zee’s perspective on this one :(
Like he is gonna play it 😂
Dont say it was the worst play of ti4 ever. My 1st game i drove my war sun through an astroidbelt to attack a player approaching Mecatol Rex when i had the 1st grab and could have easily got empirial and sat on Mecatol Rex myself. Huge misplay but ill never forget it.
Too bad you can’t find the expansion in stock anywhere...😒
It’s on sale right now on Amazon. Preorder that is.
casey potthoff that’s from a seller scalping at $20 over MSRP. Doesn’t ship until Jan 1 which means they’re probably waiting on backorder w/ Asmodee who doesn’t have any in stock on their website right now
I disagree with the idea that this added significant time to the game. In a 4 player game, with all new content being played for the first time with 2 people who knew the game and 2 brand new players, we did a 10 point game in 6 hours. A friend played 8 with everything and completed a ten point game in 8 hours. This content, IMO, in fact sped up the game as you had more stuff and options to do and go for that it translated to a faster play to get the VP;s.
Shame there is no Zee. Not like he is likely to ever play TI4. >_
To bad Sam was not a special guest on this one
Makes me sad for the designers that this game has color mismatch production issues.
J
"Committed two days to playing the game." AKA you have to play once :)
Modularity is overrated anyway! haha
I know it wasn't as dismissive as it sounds but "Oh yeah the entire fictional layer doesnt matter to the game" just sounds weird to me
I started playing TI3 in 2010 (which I own), dozens of times, and it is probably my favourite game ever. But I have not yet read a single word of the fluff/story.
The all or nothing nature of the huge expansion is surprising and kind of off-putting, especially for such a long game.
It was intentional to go along with the base games same design.
Agreed
First!
I've played 3rd ed. never played 4th.
Why are the DT videos so 'beige'... Everything is beige. It maddens me. Bring a professional just for one day to fix your setup.
Ti4 is fine but just way too long and too much of a “just get to Rex” linear affair. This sounds like it solves the latter issue with the legendary planets but making it even longer and not making the expansion modular is a no-no. Not to mention no one mentioned that the expansion costs as much if not more than the original game, that’s a little insane! Definitely one for the mega fans though.
I thought Roy mentioned that it cost the same as the original game? It was definitely something we discussed amongst ourselves.
@@michaeldilisio557 Oh I must have missed that, sorry! Ah right it's mentioned it's expensive in general, fair enough. Though when it's around £100 in the UK for an expansion, that's a whole new level of expensive.
It also presents a LOT of content, both in terms of play and components
The expansion really elevates the original as it opens many more avenues to win a game. Strategies are less straight forward thanks to the new unique and sometimes crazy abilities.
A lot of thought has been out into making it a cohesive whole and it shows. Balancing a myriad of small modules would have been impossible.
Honestly what's surprising is that for the amount of stuff in the box the rules are barely more complex. And it's a fact that the expansion makes the game shorter (usually by a whole round).
It just depends on when you plan to buy it.
The hype has died down, so have the prices.
And dude modules can make a board game a pain in the ass, since everyone plays by their own rules and it can be time consuming playing the hundreds of variants it creates.
All of the problems from TI3 have been solved immensely, this isn't just a *more of the same* expansion like so many board games are but *this legitimately solves all of the problems the original had and is so fun you can't play without it* .
Just comes down to setup, rules explanation and teardown.
Doesn't add that much more time from my own personal games.