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hey man! hope your doing well, can you make your next video on the potential airlines for the Boeing 777X? Like air New Zealand, KLM, Thai Airways, etc. I’d love to here about the potential future of the plane
@@tomicaguyusa4633how about do some research on your own. He knows 0.0 about airlines or the industry. He gets a free ticket and says the airline talking points.
"In February 2018, Hawaiian Airlines cancelled its order for six Airbus A330-800s to replace them with Boeing 787-9s priced less than $100-115m, close to their production cost of $80-90m, while their normal sales price is around $125m." [Wikipedia] So Boeing gave a very low price for 787-9s.
Alaska airlines also recently acquired Hawaiian Airlines. They’re all Boeing and Hawaiian still flies the 717. The 321neo LR they have have been plagued by engine issues.
@@airops423 I don't think that was the case, he's talking about Hawaiian (which has 2-4-2), but in those specific cases, sure I'd take the 787. And keep in mind, 3-3-3 in the a330 is rare, only seen in very few airlines.
@@apa182 7:29 "we looked at the A330-900 as an 8-abreast airplane and as a 9-abreast airplane. There are people who are operating the A330 with 9-abreast, and so we looked at that and in order to get that 9-abreast it wasn't consistent with the customer experience we provide to our guests today." So they really wanted nine-abreast, compared both the A330 and the 787 in nine-abreast configurations, and determined passenger comfort was not sufficient in the A330 in such a configuration. And then on top of that, as an added bonus, sure you get the lower cabin altitude, larger windows, etc.
Boeing gave them more of a deal even before Alaska was in the picture. Simple. Having flown on both, as a passenger I prefer the A330neo with the 2-4-2 layout.
If I'm not mistaken, Hawaiian is mainly a leisure airline. If so, most people will be traveling as a family or group, so it is not as big a deal to ask family or friends to move as strangers.
I’ll say this knowing some people “close” to Hawaiian. Hawaiian originally went with Boeing over Airbus in order to have increased operating efficiency and because the Airbus variant they originally wanted got cancelled, BUT the main reason was because Boeing gave them a better deal compared to Airbus. I’ll just say that Hawaiian hasn’t necessarily been happy with Boeing after initial delays, but also experiencing the dodgy quality of Boeing as well (the issues aren’t just with the MAX lol). My guess knowing what I know is that they’d probably go for Airbus again if they could, but they’re too far in with Boeing to turn back right now (think Southwest with the MAX 7, but not as dire)
I'm curious, the additional efficiency of the 787 compensates the additional training requirements and maintenance cost? That must have been a really good price they got to introduce a complete new chain of costs. And seeing the issues with fasteners tightened from the wrong side, I'm not so sure about its resale values either.
@@jantjarks7946 I’m not disagreeing with you at all man; you got good points. It was a nice deal… at least on paper at the time to justify the purchase lol
The 787 has a 3-3-3 seating configuration in economy compared to 2-4-2 on the A330. The 787 economy is quite uncomfortable and more crammed, I would rather fly on an A330 whenever possible.
I mean it’s a wider plane that can fit 3-3-3 where the a330 would be too uncomfortable. If it made sense a 2-2-2 would be perfect, but the economics would be bad.
The trick is to not ride in economy. 😂 I have been up front on the lay-flats many times on the 787 and it’s been amazing. My only small complaint is the foot well when laying flat could be just a little wider. 😝
Boeing are the best then. Hawaiian's chooses "Commercial" purposes to buy the 787. Hawaiian accountants is being taught by Boeing accountants...... Now there's a really good tutor.....
Frankly, the 787 is an engineering marvel regardless of Boeing's tainted reputation. There has never been a lethal accident of the 787 and its exceptional aerodynamics & impressive range really makes the 787 backbone of several major airlines.
Finally someone here that clarifies it the right way. Of course the Boeing 787 is the highly anticipated airplane in some worldwide fleets. That's why they continue to order them. With all the troubles around Boeing right now, many airlines still preferred the 787 over the A330. So that might say a lot.
You can say that about 340/350/380 and only a freak accident on 330. But when I think of engineering marvel, smoothness and comfort, I only think of A380. In comparison , 787 looks ridiculous with its short legs and weird nose and back, just a deformed creature.
The business class experience is exceptional. There is also premier seating or economy plus with even better seats right behind business class. Airbus just cannot match the experience. It’s not even close since economy plus and business class experience is better in the Boeing.
Until you try an A380 or an A350. The 787 is certainly Boeing’s best product, but it’s way behind the best Airbuses from a passenger’s perspective. (Note: I’ve flown on all those models)
Airbus has made the A330 NEO into a high circle aircraft like a narrow body airframe. Most asian airlines are choosing A330 neo for exactly that ability to be flown multiple times a day on medium haul flights.
Maybe not after all is said and done. Alaska actually really liked the 321’s they had but it’s well known that Virgin America had horrible leases on their aircraft so those were definitely not sticking around.
Great video Coby keep them coming however, I do have a few small things that I think you missed that affect why Hawaiian Airlines 🌺 ordered the B787: First off, before the Airbus A330-200 (the smaller variant that they fly) they used to fly the McDonell Douglas DC-10 and then in turn replacing the DC-10 with the Boeing 767-300ER retired in 2019. Hawaiian has always been a fan of the American made aircraft especially after Boeing acquired McDonell Douglas in 1997, because of this Hawaiian already knew that Boeing was a reliable company for their operations. (despite recent question about the reliability) Second, the decision to order the Airbus A330 was probably also affected by the places that they flew, what I mean by that is many Asian airlines had ordered the B787 to replace their aging and Boeing 767s and at least historically a lot of decisions Hawaiian Airlines made we’re pretty aligned with the Asian airlines tended to do. Especially the Japanese carriers due to a large Japanese-American population and former Japanese-American leaders at Hawaiian. I’m sure part of their decision was affected by the decisions of ANA and JAL 🇯🇵 Since both of these airlines operated Boeing 767s and looked to the B787 Dreamer to replace them, Hawaiian Airlines leadership felt that it would be wise to do the same after the A330neo order cancellation. Third, major US carrier United Airlines was a major customer and operator of the B767 in fact, they were the launch customer for the type, in 2002 United Airlines ordered the upcoming B787 aircraft Hawaiian Airlines also took note, United Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines have shared and partnered on many different routes to from the US and Hawaii for many years now and when United Airlines made a decision historical, Hawaiian wasn’t far behind with the same ideals. Fourth and final reason, if we look at Hawaiian’s narrow body fleet they used to operate Douglas DC-9 and McDonell Douglas MD-80 series. These jets were primarily used for a short inter island hopper flights by the carrier and helped connect the islands with their main base at Honolulu. After Boeing and McDonell Doulas merged this legacy continued, Hawaiian would go on to order the MD-95 later rebranded as the Boeing 717 these aircraft, although not super popular when they were being produced, I’ve done an excellent job for Hawaiian Airlines connecting the islands and opening up more of Hawaii to travelers. I think that these reasons listed above certainly helped also affect Hawaiian Airlines decision to order the Boeing 787. I also believe that in the future Hawaiian Airlines will order more Boeing aircraft as they never really wanted the Airbus A330 they ordered the A330 mostly because Airbus strong armed them into ordering the jet historically airbus gave them a very, very big discount as much as 70% off! Nowadays, that is completely illegal as there are antitrust laws to prevent “dumping”(Selling an aircraft at less than it cost to manufacture to break into a market.) However, we should also keep in mind that a lot of Asian airlines ordered the airbus A330 as well prior to the Boeing B787 being announced, it was the flashing new airplane to replace the B767 and Hawaiian was sold on it be it begrudgingly. Anyways, great video Coby I really enjoyed this one. Also, I see you’re in the Business Class seat on the new Hawaiian B787-9 does that mean we will soon see a full review of the product on Coby Explores? I hope so! I am also very excited to see Hawaiian get these new B787 aircraft as I will be headed to Hawaii in summer 2025 and I can’t wait! 🤩 ✈️ hopefully flying the new Hawaiian B787 Dreamliner! 🌺 🤙 Cheers 🥂my friend and fellow aviation UA-camr. -Caleb’s Aviation
Thanks for the further insight into the history of Hawaiian airlines previous aircraft. Now it makes a little more sense as to why they went with the 787 other than getting a big discount, which I’m sure didn’t hurt either.
Hawaiian doesn't even fly to Asia except a few Japan and Korea locations . Japanese airlines have bought many a350's recently . Airlines get dumped airraft when they cancel and go to another , in this case Hawaiian cancelling Airbus because they got ridiculous dumping deal from Boeing in its own turf.
Once again a pretty good video. Your explanation what airlines consider when ordering airplanes was very clear and to the point. Keep the good videos rolling Coby.
Also worth noting is that HA underwent leadership change when the 787 was ordered. In FEB 2018 Peter Ingram replaced Mark Dunkerly and in MAR 2018 the order was announced.
I’m just going to miss the old 2-4-2 layout in economy. It was awesome for couples and families with your typical 2 kids & 2 adults. We fly Hawaiian 3-4x a year and man was this configuration a God send.
Of course that's what happened. They were offered huge switchback discounts. Now they might be second-guessing their second-guessing. But they couldn't anticipate Boeing's continuing problems at the time.
The last time I flew on Hawaiian was in 2014, when they operated the Boeing 767-300, which I loved. KPHX to PHNL and then a 717 to Kauai. The reason I loved the 767-300 was the cabin's 2-3-2 configuration, my girlfriend and I sat on the port-side to PHNL, and the star-board side on the return trip, we had 2 seats to ourselves. I know, Hawaiian Air wanted to increase their fleet's capacity and efficiency, which is why they went with the 787-9. We'll most likely fly on Hawaiian again as long as operated a 787 and not an A330-200.
Many Americans still think in terms of US-Europe when talking about Boeing-Airbus. Nothing is further from the truth. Airbus has a major facility in Mobile Alabama and is now also an American company.
10:18 One thing you missed is the lack of provisions for Passenger-to-Freighter comversions for the 787. And that Freighter conversions are one of the biggest segments for retired passenger airliners. 11:05 I thought you talked about dimmable windows being locked by the cabin crew before? Or is that from flight reviewers? i forgor💀
As others seem to agree, 2-4-2 in the back is the way to go if you are looking for customer satisfaction. You never have to step over more than one person, you would break up more couples with the odd number 3-3-3 seating. So 240 in the back instead of 266 but the extra comfort of maybe a slightly wider seat, happy customers, etc may just well be worth the 26 seat difference. Come on Hawaiian(Alaska) please think about it. 😘 For interisland flights, I think the Boeing 737-700 Max(if it ever comes out) with 138 seats or the E195 with 100 seats,(or 116 single class on the 195) 2 class configurations would be good choices. 🥳
Great Video, thanks. The very reason some Airlines choose the 787 (9 abreast seating) is the reason I choose the airline that flies the A330-900 (8 abreast). I prefer not to fly on Cattle Cars and/or Boeings. I understand why the cheaper 787 is popular with Bean Counters , but they won't get my business if there is a better alternative (IMO).
Hawaiian probably purchased the 787-9 because Airbus was offering a deal on the A330 but not the A350-900, they didn't need to because the A350 is selling as well as the 787. Being able to fly nonstop to Singapore or London or Paris while not very likely is always a plus.
Hawaiian has done many luncheons with the county chambers on each island and Peter Ingram did imply that the 787 was looked at for it’s Asia Market and the Asia Market preference for the 787 seat comfort. Also Ben from Alaska told me directly when I questioned him to reconsider the A220 for inter island flights that he is confident in moving his 737 NG’s to replace the 717’s and not do the same as Southwest which was also in attendance. Peter Ingram was quoted saying to Sam Chui that they were considering A220 and the Embraer until Alaska became more of a pathway.
The 787's wider fuselage also means more competitive business class products can be installed. The 330's fuselage width is too narrow and only space inefficient cabins can be installed if the business class product has to match wider aircraft comfort level. The A350 did not have this issue. The 787 is miserable in 9 abreast economy, at least with my shoulder width. Aircraft of choice for economy A380, A350 (9ab), A220, narrow aisle A320 family and B777x. Thankfully a lot of airlines don't operate the 787 the 737 or the 777 classic. I hope the 737/320 successors will be sized for 18 in wide seats with a wide aisle. It would help with boarding speed and enable more competitive lie flat business class seats than what can be installed on the 320, even more so the 737.
What??? Fuselage width has to with how economy seats they can fit. First Business these days has 1-2-1 configurations maybe 2-2-2 Educate yourself before opening your cocksucker Google 787 seat width vs a330 seat width
Given the recent news of Boeing whistlelowers dying suddenly or being sacked as well as the actual mechanical disasters I think that Boeing is only one major accident away from a major loss of confidence by the flying public right now. That will mean a 'significant' degree of people refusing to fly on Boeing planes, and given profit margins, that could have a dramatic knock-on effect of a relatively small number of people only making that decision to not fly on Boeing. That could mean some airlines going out of business and the impact on the industry would be monumental. I think by comparison, Airbus still has a lot of goodwill in hand.
I like Boeing and Airbus equally. Truly, each have their own pros and cons. If I HAD to pick a favorite, I'd say Boeing. That is ONLY because I'm an American, and you gotta go American.
Its amazing that the 787 is only 4% more efficient than the A330meo on long range. I was expecting a bigger margin, considering one quite heavy. This gad can be narrowed over time.
If any airline replaces its A330-200s or -300s with Boeing 787 Dreamliners or even the Airbus A350-900 XWBs, its cabin will be cramped because of the 3-3-3 layout in the Economy Class cabin of the latter two as opposed to the 2-4-2 layout on the A330neo!
Another idiot just like Colbyexplanes the a350 is a 777 competitor. The 787 is a 767 replacement a330 competitor. It’s a small jet that has been stretched because airlines like the economics and are ok with the lack of range
subscribed just cuz I flew on them all my life (born and raised on Oahu) and had the chance to fly on the DC10 silver version back in the 90s and the iconic 717. It is my fav airplane
I thought about this before and am happy to see a video about it. Very good points raised, am I'm happy they went on the B787-9 but I still think the A330-900 would have made more sense in the long term. Those planes are cheaper than B787-9 because you reap the benefits now rather than later on resale value... And I really don't think airlines buy a plane for their resale value 20 years down the line.
Have you ever heard of a news from Airbus that the Airbus A330neo is getting a performance improvements called "Step 4" package and a Electro-dimmable Window option between doors 1 and 2?
Hawaiian burned so much customer loyalty by jacking up their ticket prices when their main competitor went out of business, and they really stuck it to us for years until Southwest showed up and challenged them on fares. They may call themselves Hawaiian, but they're pretty short on aloha.
With their pending merger with Alaska airlines, Alaska has said that they are excited for the 787 and it's potential to expand their International routes around the Asia Pacific Market
Airbus is more interesting, specially for medium and short-haul. Always preferred it, 320neo, 321neo - way more comfortable compared to boeing options. 330 is a bit comlicated but it is still a very efficient plane specially for multiple flights per day which is what most airlines use it for.
I want to keep supporting Hawaiian (as a resident) but over the years, their Interisland prices gone up so much that my family has to change to southwest. Also, their service has mediocre (no aloha) and flying in business is not worth paying anymore. Sadly, I’m hoping that Alaska merger is gonna go through, it would be beneficial for us flying back to Japan.
Hawaiian, a full-service airline known for being among the nicer ones in the US, considered putting 9-abreast in an A330neo… 😂😂 Luckily common sense prevailed there. I’m amazed they actually looked into it.
I think the Dreamliner is the best option for Hawaiian. The A330 is great for them, but the neo doesn’t make sense. It would take a while until they get one and as Coby said, they got them really cheap. So why don’t take the very good 787.
Of course Boeing needs to be aggressive with pricing... Given the last 3-4 years and how the demonstrate they put profits above safety, they need to cut on price if they want to sell as before...
Interesting that engine options (a major cost of the airplane and maintenance) didn't seem to be a factor. The GEnx-1Bs offer far better reliability and efficiency compared to the RR Trent-7000. GE has more advanced technology built into their engines compared to RR and PW.
Plenty of demand for A330P2Fs down the track. Better first class options for the 787-- that is its biggest selling point v A330neo. This would suit Hawaiian much better having those options
Do you know the Airbus A330neo has a commonality with its smaller counterpart, the Airbus A320neo Family and its larger counterpart, the Airbus A350 XWB? If any airline replace its Airbus A330-200 and -300 with Boeing 787 Dreamliners, pilots and crew members of the former two will need additional training to switch to the latter!
Hawaiian Airlines should stuck with Airbus because the A330neo is typically configured with 1-2-1 and 2-4-2 layouts in Business and Economy Classes, respectively.
They ordered these Dreamliners way before the Alaska merger was announced. I also doubt they wanted to “look more appealing” to them because of their aircraft choice.
Do you know that the Airbus A330-800 has a range longer than its longer counterpart, the A330-900 and its American rival, both the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, and similar to its larger counterpart, the A350-900 XWB?
Grammar note: Hawaiian is not, as you say, the benefactor of Boeing's aggressive pricing. It's the beneficiary. Total opposite. *Boeing* is the benefactor. Hawaiian is the beneficiary.
Would you ask the HawaiianAirlines what they think about Boeing carefulness with door bolts, fuselage assembly, and about automatic systems which can down a plane if a measurement is false? I mean, some of the details about MCAS and 787 production are currently under investigation by FAA or Congress for having become sloppy regarding production carefulness, so every question which comes out as a reminder to improve security levels will make Boeing consider doing better instead of just claiming they are good.
Im Airbus, but i think Hawaiian do their best decision, if...the demand went crazy and dreamliner cant afford it, i think they look after the A350 soon or later
I haven’t flown an A330NEO yet and I think there’s no big difference to the older version but I have already flown a “Dreamliner” and I absolutely like its cabin design and comfort
Hawaiian basically has no money and had to go with the cheapest option with the A330 family. Boeing wanted to cancel out an AB customer and Hawaii is a show place for any supplier ...
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I’m most interested in learning French as well as I’m working on it since I want to visit a lot of places many that speak French like 🇨🇦
I speak 7 languages.
Some of us humans are gifted, as I am.
I am from a musical family,
hearing and imitating what I hear.
Do not let them fool you
hey man! hope your doing well, can you make your next video on the potential airlines for the Boeing 777X? Like air New Zealand, KLM, Thai Airways, etc. I’d love to here about the potential future of the plane
@@tomicaguyusa4633 GREAT IDEA! 💡
@@tomicaguyusa4633how about do some research on your own. He knows 0.0 about airlines or the industry. He gets a free ticket and says the airline talking points.
They flew 767s for many years all the way up to 2019, so I'm not sure that makes them much of a loyalist to Airbus.
It's copium from Coby nowadays. He's determined to destroy Embraer by hoping Boeing buys them to fix Boeing...
This guy talks out of his asshole. On UA-cam you don’t have to work a single day in the airline industry and become an expert.
I was thinking the same thing😂
"In February 2018, Hawaiian Airlines cancelled its order for six Airbus A330-800s to replace them with Boeing 787-9s priced less than $100-115m, close to their production cost of $80-90m, while their normal sales price is around $125m."
[Wikipedia]
So Boeing gave a very low price for 787-9s.
Thanks, didn't expect to find the price on Wikipedia.
But indeed, that explains quite something.
But given inflation 2021-2023, does that affect the production cost?
Alaska airlines also recently acquired Hawaiian Airlines. They’re all Boeing and Hawaiian still flies the 717. The 321neo LR they have have been plagued by engine issues.
@@TrentonThomas627they haven’t yet but seems to be looking good. 👍🏼
Me and my wife will ALWAYS prefer an a330 over any 787 because of it's 2-4-2 configuration. This means so much more than a lower cabin altitude.
The comparison was 9-abreast A330 vs. 9-abreast 787. 787 wins hands-down in this regard due to the extra width.
@@airops423 I don't think that was the case, he's talking about Hawaiian (which has 2-4-2), but in those specific cases, sure I'd take the 787. And keep in mind, 3-3-3 in the a330 is rare, only seen in very few airlines.
@@apa182 7:29 "we looked at the A330-900 as an 8-abreast airplane and as a 9-abreast airplane. There are people who are operating the A330 with 9-abreast, and so we looked at that and in order to get that 9-abreast it wasn't consistent with the customer experience we provide to our guests today." So they really wanted nine-abreast, compared both the A330 and the 787 in nine-abreast configurations, and determined passenger comfort was not sufficient in the A330 in such a configuration. And then on top of that, as an added bonus, sure you get the lower cabin altitude, larger windows, etc.
The seating configuration has NOTHING to do with the cabin altitude. But the 787 has a much lower cabin altitude no matter what.
I don't think you understood what I meant@@TerminalBAviation
Boeing gave them more of a deal even before Alaska was in the picture. Simple. Having flown on both, as a passenger I prefer the A330neo with the 2-4-2 layout.
Customers prefer the 8-abreast A330 over the 9-abreast 787, because you have to ask only one person to get up to go to the restroom instead of two.
Yes,
If I'm not mistaken, Hawaiian is mainly a leisure airline. If so, most people will be traveling as a family or group, so it is not as big a deal to ask family or friends to move as strangers.
it's a shame because dreamliners were initially fitted as 2-4-2 but then an extra row was squeezed in similar to the 777 switch from 3-3-3 to 3-4-3
@@Gusearthand the same thing happened to the A330 NEO which a few airlines operate 9 abreast
And it's also NOT a modern Boeing jet. Meaning you're safer flying on it.
I’ll say this knowing some people “close” to Hawaiian. Hawaiian originally went with Boeing over Airbus in order to have increased operating efficiency and because the Airbus variant they originally wanted got cancelled, BUT the main reason was because Boeing gave them a better deal compared to Airbus.
I’ll just say that Hawaiian hasn’t necessarily been happy with Boeing after initial delays, but also experiencing the dodgy quality of Boeing as well (the issues aren’t just with the MAX lol).
My guess knowing what I know is that they’d probably go for Airbus again if they could, but they’re too far in with Boeing to turn back right now (think Southwest with the MAX 7, but not as dire)
I'm curious, the additional efficiency of the 787 compensates the additional training requirements and maintenance cost?
That must have been a really good price they got to introduce a complete new chain of costs.
And seeing the issues with fasteners tightened from the wrong side, I'm not so sure about its resale values either.
@@jantjarks7946 I’m not disagreeing with you at all man; you got good points. It was a nice deal… at least on paper at the time to justify the purchase lol
Why anybody would think that the issues didn't go beyond the MAX I find incredible. There's every chance the 777x. will become the 777xMAX!
@@johnchristmas7522 The 777x is not even released for service yet. They know damn well not the release it now.
The 787 has a 3-3-3 seating configuration in economy compared to 2-4-2 on the A330. The 787 economy is quite uncomfortable and more crammed, I would rather fly on an A330 whenever possible.
I mean it’s a wider plane that can fit 3-3-3 where the a330 would be too uncomfortable. If it made sense a 2-2-2 would be perfect, but the economics would be bad.
The trick is to not ride in economy. 😂 I have been up front on the lay-flats many times on the 787 and it’s been amazing. My only small complaint is the foot well when laying flat could be just a little wider. 😝
The 787 has the tiniest seat width among all widebodies, and is even smaller than some narrowbodies. Dreamliner economy absolutely sucks.
Ngl, I like how Hawaiian is extending their thoughts for commercial purposes, meaning they don’t give up easily
Boeing are the best then. Hawaiian's chooses "Commercial" purposes to buy the 787. Hawaiian accountants is being taught by Boeing accountants...... Now there's a really good tutor.....
Frankly, the 787 is an engineering marvel regardless of Boeing's tainted reputation. There has never been a lethal accident of the 787 and its exceptional aerodynamics & impressive range really makes the 787 backbone of several major airlines.
This sh*t was grounded before lol. Engineering sh*t 🤡
Finally someone here that clarifies it the right way. Of course the Boeing 787 is the highly anticipated airplane in some worldwide fleets. That's why they continue to order them. With all the troubles around Boeing right now, many airlines still preferred the 787 over the A330. So that might say a lot.
You can say that about 340/350/380 and only a freak accident on 330. But when I think of engineering marvel, smoothness and comfort, I only think of A380. In comparison , 787 looks ridiculous with its short legs and weird nose and back, just a deformed creature.
I have flown with United on the 787. Once you experience the cabin environment and smoothness of the flight, you can't wait for the next one!
The business class experience is exceptional. There is also premier seating or economy plus with even better seats right behind business class. Airbus just cannot match the experience. It’s not even close since economy plus and business class experience is better in the Boeing.
Until you try an A380 or an A350. The 787 is certainly Boeing’s best product, but it’s way behind the best Airbuses from a passenger’s perspective. (Note: I’ve flown on all those models)
@@tagtag-connected5263 they can though? the seats depends on the airline and airbus is better on width
Airbus has made the A330 NEO into a high circle aircraft like a narrow body airframe. Most asian airlines are choosing A330 neo for exactly that ability to be flown multiple times a day on medium haul flights.
you meant cycle?
Could it be that Hawaiian Airlines is going to soon be a part of the Alaska Airlines group which is “Proudly All-Boeing”?
The order was made years before Alaska’s start of acquisition efforts
@@Blank00 Alaska and Hawaiian were in talks well before the pandemic.
Maybe not after all is said and done. Alaska actually really liked the 321’s they had but it’s well known that Virgin America had horrible leases on their aircraft so those were definitely not sticking around.
I hope the merger goes thru!
I hope they go all Boeing!
Fingers crossed!!!
Man I hope they'll bring their new Dreamliners here in Manila. HA's livery has always been one of the more refreshing ones among Western carriers.
"Dreamliner" has different connotations to me irrespective of the livery.
Keep up the good videos man!
Great video Coby keep them coming however, I do have a few small things that I think you missed that affect why Hawaiian Airlines 🌺 ordered the B787:
First off, before the Airbus A330-200 (the smaller variant that they fly) they used to fly the McDonell Douglas DC-10 and then in turn replacing the DC-10 with the Boeing 767-300ER retired in 2019. Hawaiian has always been a fan of the American made aircraft especially after Boeing acquired McDonell Douglas in 1997, because of this Hawaiian already knew that Boeing was a reliable company for their operations. (despite recent question about the reliability)
Second, the decision to order the Airbus A330 was probably also affected by the places that they flew, what I mean by that is many Asian airlines had ordered the B787 to replace their aging and Boeing 767s and at least historically a lot of decisions Hawaiian Airlines made we’re pretty aligned with the Asian airlines tended to do. Especially the Japanese carriers due to a large Japanese-American population and former Japanese-American leaders at Hawaiian. I’m sure part of their decision was affected by the decisions of ANA and JAL 🇯🇵 Since both of these airlines operated Boeing 767s and looked to the B787 Dreamer to replace them, Hawaiian Airlines leadership felt that it would be wise to do the same after the A330neo order cancellation.
Third, major US carrier United Airlines was a major customer and operator of the B767 in fact, they were the launch customer for the type, in 2002 United Airlines ordered the upcoming B787 aircraft Hawaiian Airlines also took note, United Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines have shared and partnered on many different routes to from the US and Hawaii for many years now and when United Airlines made a decision historical, Hawaiian wasn’t far behind with the same ideals.
Fourth and final reason, if we look at Hawaiian’s narrow body fleet they used to operate Douglas DC-9 and McDonell Douglas MD-80 series. These jets were primarily used for a short inter island hopper flights by the carrier and helped connect the islands with their main base at Honolulu. After Boeing and McDonell Doulas merged this legacy continued, Hawaiian would go on to order the MD-95 later rebranded as the Boeing 717 these aircraft, although not super popular when they were being produced, I’ve done an excellent job for Hawaiian Airlines connecting the islands and opening up more of Hawaii to travelers.
I think that these reasons listed above certainly helped also affect Hawaiian Airlines decision to order the Boeing 787. I also believe that in the future Hawaiian Airlines will order more Boeing aircraft as they never really wanted the Airbus A330 they ordered the A330 mostly because Airbus strong armed them into ordering the jet historically airbus gave them a very, very big discount as much as 70% off! Nowadays, that is completely illegal as there are antitrust laws to prevent “dumping”(Selling an aircraft at less than it cost to manufacture to break into a market.) However, we should also keep in mind that a lot of Asian airlines ordered the airbus A330 as well prior to the Boeing B787 being announced, it was the flashing new airplane to replace the B767 and Hawaiian was sold on it be it begrudgingly.
Anyways, great video Coby I really enjoyed this one. Also, I see you’re in the Business Class seat on the new Hawaiian B787-9 does that mean we will soon see a full review of the product on Coby Explores? I hope so! I am also very excited to see Hawaiian get these new B787 aircraft as I will be headed to Hawaii in summer 2025 and I can’t wait! 🤩 ✈️ hopefully flying the new Hawaiian B787 Dreamliner! 🌺 🤙
Cheers 🥂my friend and fellow aviation UA-camr.
-Caleb’s Aviation
Thanks for the further insight into the history of Hawaiian airlines previous aircraft. Now it makes a little more sense as to why they went with the 787 other than getting a big discount, which I’m sure didn’t hurt either.
Hawaiian doesn't even fly to Asia except a few Japan and Korea locations . Japanese airlines have bought many a350's recently . Airlines get dumped airraft when they cancel and go to another , in this case Hawaiian cancelling Airbus because they got ridiculous dumping deal from Boeing in its own turf.
Once again a pretty good video. Your explanation what airlines consider when ordering airplanes was very clear and to the point. Keep the good videos rolling Coby.
Mt good friend is a Hawaiian Airlines pilot and he flew Airbus for many years and had to stop to get re-trained on the Dreamliner.
Also worth noting is that HA underwent leadership change when the 787 was ordered. In FEB 2018 Peter Ingram replaced Mark Dunkerly and in MAR 2018 the order was announced.
Large Windows that let in natural light... If not locked to closed position...
Other than all the 787 windows are electronic, and don't actually dim to full dark.
I’m just going to miss the old 2-4-2 layout in economy. It was awesome for couples and families with your typical 2 kids & 2 adults.
We fly Hawaiian 3-4x a year and man was this configuration a God send.
Of course that's what happened. They were offered huge switchback discounts. Now they might be second-guessing their second-guessing. But they couldn't anticipate Boeing's continuing problems at the time.
The last time I flew on Hawaiian was in 2014, when they operated the Boeing 767-300, which I loved. KPHX to PHNL and then a 717 to Kauai. The reason I loved the 767-300 was the cabin's 2-3-2 configuration, my girlfriend and I sat on the port-side to PHNL, and the star-board side on the return trip, we had 2 seats to ourselves. I know, Hawaiian Air wanted to increase their fleet's capacity and efficiency, which is why they went with the 787-9. We'll most likely fly on Hawaiian again as long as operated a 787 and not an A330-200.
Hawaiian's long haul (mainland or Asia) flights are LONG. So a few percent increase in fuel efficiency is not insignificant.
Many Americans still think in terms of US-Europe when talking about Boeing-Airbus. Nothing is further from the truth. Airbus has a major facility in Mobile Alabama and is now also an American company.
their profits go to Europe 🤑
as a French, ur French is good Coby !
10:18 One thing you missed is the lack of provisions for Passenger-to-Freighter comversions for the 787. And that Freighter conversions are one of the biggest segments for retired passenger airliners.
11:05 I thought you talked about dimmable windows being locked by the cabin crew before? Or is that from flight reviewers? i forgor💀
I mean the a330 freighter isn’t very popular on existing aircraft. Most of them just get scrapped anyway
As others seem to agree, 2-4-2 in the back is the way to go if you are looking for customer satisfaction. You never have to step over more than one person, you would break up more couples with the odd number 3-3-3 seating. So 240 in the back instead of 266 but the extra comfort of maybe a slightly wider seat, happy customers, etc may just well be worth the 26 seat difference. Come on Hawaiian(Alaska) please think about it. 😘
For interisland flights, I think the Boeing 737-700 Max(if it ever comes out) with 138 seats or the E195 with 100 seats,(or 116 single class on the 195) 2 class configurations would be good choices. 🥳
I just flew out of LAX a few days ago I could have sworn I say a Hawaiian 787 in parking towards the middle west of the airport
these videos just keep getting better good work as always
Great analogy!
Is great your getting the info from the root not the surrounds.
Great Video, thanks. The very reason some Airlines choose the 787 (9 abreast seating) is the reason I choose the airline that flies the A330-900 (8 abreast). I prefer not to fly on Cattle Cars and/or Boeings. I understand why the cheaper 787 is popular with Bean Counters , but they won't get my business if there is a better alternative (IMO).
Crikey Coby;you look well. Channel must be winning. That's genuinely good👍😊
Finally, Boeing coming back up
Passengers prefer 2-4-2, but 3-3-3 offers more seating capacity for the airline. Plus, Hawaiian got those 787s for a cheap price
Correct but 2-4-2 B787 does exist look at JL
@@EpicThe112 yes, but Hawaiian uses 3-3-3
@ludlos thanks for telling me about that and if you look at the Japanese example that's explained as JL vs NH B787s JL 2-4-2 while NH is 3-3-3.
Thanks for the vid
When you discuss specifications, like range, please include the numbers, A330-900 8,055 miles, 787-9 8,786 miles, a 731 mile difference
Hawaiian probably purchased the 787-9 because Airbus was offering a deal on the A330 but not the A350-900, they didn't need to because the A350 is selling as well as the 787. Being able to fly nonstop to Singapore or London or Paris while not very likely is always a plus.
Hawaiian has done many luncheons with the county chambers on each island and Peter Ingram did imply that the 787 was looked at for it’s Asia Market and the Asia Market preference for the 787 seat comfort. Also Ben from Alaska told me directly when I questioned him to reconsider the A220 for inter island flights that he is confident in moving his 737 NG’s to replace the 717’s and not do the same as Southwest which was also in attendance. Peter Ingram was quoted saying to Sam Chui that they were considering A220 and the Embraer until Alaska became more of a pathway.
I don’t I know if this is important but you forgot to mention the 767 Hawaiian Airlines retried
The 787's wider fuselage also means more competitive business class products can be installed. The 330's fuselage width is too narrow and only space inefficient cabins can be installed if the business class product has to match wider aircraft comfort level.
The A350 did not have this issue.
The 787 is miserable in 9 abreast economy, at least with my shoulder width.
Aircraft of choice for economy A380, A350 (9ab), A220, narrow aisle A320 family and B777x.
Thankfully a lot of airlines don't operate the 787 the 737 or the 777 classic.
I hope the 737/320 successors will be sized for 18 in wide seats with a wide aisle. It would help with boarding speed and enable more competitive lie flat business class seats than what can be installed on the 320, even more so the 737.
What??? Fuselage width has to with how economy seats they can fit. First Business these days has 1-2-1 configurations maybe 2-2-2
Educate yourself before opening your cocksucker Google 787 seat width vs a330 seat width
Given the recent news of Boeing whistlelowers dying suddenly or being sacked as well as the actual mechanical disasters I think that Boeing is only one major accident away from a major loss of confidence by the flying public right now. That will mean a 'significant' degree of people refusing to fly on Boeing planes, and given profit margins, that could have a dramatic knock-on effect of a relatively small number of people only making that decision to not fly on Boeing. That could mean some airlines going out of business and the impact on the industry would be monumental. I think by comparison, Airbus still has a lot of goodwill in hand.
I like Boeing and Airbus equally. Truly, each have their own pros and cons. If I HAD to pick a favorite, I'd say Boeing. That is ONLY because I'm an American, and you gotta go American.
Its amazing that the 787 is only 4% more efficient than the A330meo on long range. I was expecting a bigger margin, considering one quite heavy. This gad can be narrowed over time.
If any airline replaces its A330-200s or -300s with Boeing 787 Dreamliners or even the Airbus A350-900 XWBs, its cabin will be cramped because of the 3-3-3 layout in the Economy Class cabin of the latter two as opposed to the 2-4-2 layout on the A330neo!
HA should be cautious about the quality (or lack of) issues that Boeing is experiencing and will continue to for the foreseeable future.
nah.. this too shall pass 🇺🇸
Government pressure perhaps? They were all-in on AB & RR, when they went B787 they didn`t even choose RR hence my first words.
I thought the direct Airbus competitor of the 787 was the A350, not 330 . . . ?
Another idiot just like Colbyexplanes the a350 is a 777 competitor. The 787 is a 767 replacement a330 competitor. It’s a small jet that has been stretched because airlines like the economics and are ok with the lack of range
subscribed just cuz I flew on them all my life (born and raised on Oahu) and had the chance to fly on the DC10 silver version back in the 90s and the iconic 717. It is my fav airplane
I thought about this before and am happy to see a video about it. Very good points raised, am I'm happy they went on the B787-9 but I still think the A330-900 would have made more sense in the long term. Those planes are cheaper than B787-9 because you reap the benefits now rather than later on resale value... And I really don't think airlines buy a plane for their resale value 20 years down the line.
Have you ever heard of a news from Airbus that the Airbus A330neo is getting a performance improvements called "Step 4" package and a Electro-dimmable Window option between doors 1 and 2?
Great call going with 787. ✈️🇺🇸
Do you know that the 3-3-3 layout in Economy Class has middle seats on each side in addition to the center?
Hawaiian burned so much customer loyalty by jacking up their ticket prices when their main competitor went out of business, and they really stuck it to us for years until Southwest showed up and challenged them on fares. They may call themselves Hawaiian, but they're pretty short on aloha.
With their pending merger with Alaska airlines, Alaska has said that they are excited for the 787 and it's potential to expand their International routes around the Asia Pacific Market
Coby botching the French made my morning 😂😂😂. Good luck with your travels and language learning!
Haha my accent sucks I know
Airbus is more interesting, specially for medium and short-haul. Always preferred it, 320neo, 321neo - way more comfortable compared to boeing options. 330 is a bit comlicated but it is still a very efficient plane specially for multiple flights per day which is what most airlines use it for.
Hawaiian trying everything from the DC 8 L1011 and Dc 10 still trying to figure out what they want
Babe, wake up, new Coby Explanes video just dropped!
I want to keep supporting Hawaiian (as a resident) but over the years, their Interisland prices gone up so much that my family has to change to southwest. Also, their service has mediocre (no aloha) and flying in business is not worth paying anymore. Sadly, I’m hoping that Alaska merger is gonna go through, it would be beneficial for us flying back to Japan.
The reason was that the a330neo is less efficient than the 787 which is replacing the a330 also Hawaiian has received discounts
I flew from LAX to KOA in an Hawaiian Airlines A321neo and it is my most comfortable flight ever Hawaii to mainland vice versa
Very expert hard cut at about 5:12
Great Video !
Hawaiian, a full-service airline known for being among the nicer ones in the US, considered putting 9-abreast in an A330neo… 😂😂 Luckily common sense prevailed there. I’m amazed they actually looked into it.
A350-800 ->> A330-800 ->> A330-900 ->> 787-9
could they have adopted a 2-4-2 on the 787 or is that not possible?
Absolutely possible. Google Japan airlines 787 seat map.
I think the Dreamliner is the best option for Hawaiian. The A330 is great for them, but the neo doesn’t make sense. It would take a while until they get one and as Coby said, they got them really cheap. So why don’t take the very good 787.
Of course Boeing needs to be aggressive with pricing... Given the last 3-4 years and how the demonstrate they put profits above safety, they need to cut on price if they want to sell as before...
I ❤the 787 Dreamliner it is game changing aircraft
Interesting that engine options (a major cost of the airplane and maintenance) didn't seem to be a factor. The GEnx-1Bs offer far better reliability and efficiency compared to the RR Trent-7000. GE has more advanced technology built into their engines compared to RR and PW.
does the a350 have the same cabin altitude and humidity benefits as the 787, both being made from composite materials?
Plenty of demand for A330P2Fs down the track. Better first class options for the 787-- that is its biggest selling point v A330neo. This would suit Hawaiian much better having those options
The follow-up question is "How long is the re-training process for maintainers?"
❤Imagine the coming Boeing 777x how great will be❤
Lol Hawaiian Air was always a Boeing loyalist when I grew up that always flew the 767 into San diego And that's all I saw.
787 is better than the a330 and that’s just a fact
Boeings recent issues aside, the 787 is a damn good plane.
Well the a330 is fairly Old, It took its first flight back in 1992, But the 787 is a Newer and modern Plane...
But is it safer....... ?
I dont think so, Boeing is a ( profits over priorities ) run company
Everything is better than the a330
Hawaii is beautiful. Its sunny bitches and blue waters
Very interesting.
Do you know the Airbus A330neo has a commonality with its smaller counterpart, the Airbus A320neo Family and its larger counterpart, the Airbus A350 XWB? If any airline replace its Airbus A330-200 and -300 with Boeing 787 Dreamliners, pilots and crew members of the former two will need additional training to switch to the latter!
This is why I love Boeing
*casually flaunts premium seat*
I'd suggest 767-400 but they don't sell those anymore!
On paper, the choice is great. However, giving the recent troubles with Boeing's production line, it will take longer to receive these planes.
Pls make a vid on ElAls recent aircraft orders
How does Israel make money? They dont do, make, anything.....Ohhhh...Since they are chosen....Money just falls out of the sky from god itself...
Their 787 deliveries will be slower than they need. 😂
Hawaiian Airlines should stuck with Airbus because the A330neo is typically configured with 1-2-1 and 2-4-2 layouts in Business and Economy Classes, respectively.
Is it not because they were bought by Alaska which is an all Boeing fleet?
I also realize that Alaska said they will run Hawaiian as a separate brand and so the all Boeing fleet commitment maybe doesn’t apply to them.
They ordered the 787 years before the merger was on the radar and Alaska Airlines is all narrowbody (mainline is all 737, regional is all E-175)
They ordered these Dreamliners way before the Alaska merger was announced. I also doubt they wanted to “look more appealing” to them because of their aircraft choice.
@@insainllamathey will keep both “brands” so both liveries, both websites, etc but underneath the hood it will be a single airline.
Hawaiian Airlines I hope to fly on them in the upcoming years which I'll have on my Bucket list!!!!
Do you know that the Airbus A330-800 has a range longer than its longer counterpart, the A330-900 and its American rival, both the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, and similar to its larger counterpart, the A350-900 XWB?
Grammar note: Hawaiian is not, as you say, the benefactor of Boeing's aggressive pricing. It's the beneficiary. Total opposite. *Boeing* is the benefactor. Hawaiian is the beneficiary.
Please don’t confuse them. UA-cam is where morons who were in a coma during their education suddenly wake up and want to be intelligent.
Would you ask the HawaiianAirlines what they think about Boeing carefulness with door bolts, fuselage assembly, and about automatic systems which can down a plane if a measurement is false?
I mean, some of the details about MCAS and 787 production are currently under investigation by FAA or Congress for having become sloppy regarding production carefulness, so every question which comes out as a reminder to improve security levels will make Boeing consider doing better instead of just claiming they are good.
Im Airbus, but i think Hawaiian do their best decision, if...the demand went crazy and dreamliner cant afford it, i think they look after the A350 soon or later
For aloha price after discounts from Boeing?
I’ve always supported Boeing as a proud American however I also love airbus. Both planes are beautiful.
I haven’t flown an A330NEO yet and I think there’s no big difference to the older version but I have already flown a “Dreamliner” and I absolutely like its cabin design and comfort
Well if you haven't flown it yet how would you know?
Hawaiian basically has no money and had to go with the cheapest option with the A330 family. Boeing wanted to cancel out an AB customer and Hawaii is a show place for any supplier ...
They should stick with airbus for more efficient aircraft, especially with the upcoming A321XLR. Love you videos, man
Does this have anything to do with the merger/buyout by Alaska Airlines?
Big mistake.A330-900 NEO is the best choice for the airline.
Delta is my airline.
Seams to be a ridiculous situation for a airline to have so many different types when it coms to pilot utilisation