Is the $100 Difference worth it? Side Clamping Honing Guides / Jigs - Lie Nielsen Vs. Veritas Review
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- In this video we check out the Lie Nielsen and the Veritas Side Clamping Honing Guides/Jigs. Lie Nielsen ($150) is $100 more than the Veritas ($46.50). With the Lie Nielsen you also have to buy different jaws for different applications and those are $45 a set.
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:22 You ARE a Woodworker!
01:09 Specs
06:10 Testing Clamping
14:06 Outro - Навчання та стиль
Jamie, another very informative video for the community!
Answers to your Lie-Nielsen Honing Guide Questions:
1. The reason that Lie-Nielsen has a narrow wheel on the Honing Guide is to make it easy to put camber on the blade by putting more pressure ond talking more strokes on the ends and less in the center: so start on the Far Left, then Left Center, then Center, then Right Center and finally Right with finger pressure on the strokes, perhaps 15 strokes on the ends, 10 working towards the center and finally 5 in the center. Check for camber and repeat if more is needed.
2. The Chisel Jaw Pair is for small chisels from LN “fits our 1/8", 3/16", and 1/4" Bevel Edge Chisels (as well as our other Bevel Edge Chisels up to 3/4”).” Note: Hand tighten the chisel jaws pair screws by putting the 1/8” chisel in jaws then snug down the screws on the jaws. There is a minor bit of flexibility in how the jaws seat and it is essential that both the front and back of the jaws are tight against the chisel in case the chisel sides are not perfectly parallel for registration on the jaws. It works with my WoodRiver bevel edge chisel 1/8”. If there is any wiggle repeat this step. YMMV.
3. The Mortise Jaws work fine with Lie-Nielsen Mortise Chisels. Other Mortise Chisels of similar height that have parallel sides should work. YMMV. One thing to know the angle projection calculatons are different. From LN "Using the Mortise Chisel Jaw Pair increases the honing angle approximately 5 degrees. For example, setting a blade in the Mortise Chisel Jaw Pair at 1-5/32" for 30 degrees, will result in an angle closer to 35 degrees."
Cheers, Gary
Thank you Gary! Great info!!
I have the Veritas Mk2 just for chisels (for now). After watching this I'm going to look into this jig also. Another great video!
Thanks
Thank you! I love both and use both (nk2 and side clamp) lol I have a video on that too of course 😄
Another interesting video Jamie. Thanks.
I have used a lot of cheap side clamping guides over the years, with a quick and dirty blade registration jig right on the edge of my bench. It worked pretty good but I always found the narrow rollers were a nuisance, because I'm generally sharpening 1" and 1-1/2" chisels, and plane irons. Haven't used the Veritas version of the side clamp with the wide roller, but it looks like a big improvement. I bought a Veritas Mk.II a couple years ago and for the work I do it's great, especially because I'm often working on site away from the shop. Takes a bit of extra fiddling with the registration jig but really that's only about 10 seconds, and it's spot on. I also like the innovative camming feature on the roller that makes the micro bevel super easy and super accurate. All in all I'm a big fan and have recommended it to several of my pals.
100% I love the MKII I though about including it but... it on a level of its own and unmatched from anything I've seen. I will deff be using both because I feel they both have their application.
Ur right for your work the MKII would be a great "field" option!
I have the veritas as well and really like it to be fair i have not tried the LN. if you have skew blades it is quite easy to make a small jig out of thin plywood or such like.. attach the skew blade to the plywood and then fit the plywood into the honing guide. only have to build this jig once. For example I have a stanley 140 block plane with skew blade and can sharpen the blade no problem also can make a similar jig for short blades such as spokeshave blades. thanks for all the work on the comparison videos !!!
Thank you and that is a great idea!!!! Thank you for sharing!!!
Thanks mate. I’m finding your videos very helpful, so thanks!
Thank you! I am happy to hear that!!
Love the video. Looking forward to your next one
Thank you!!!
Thank you for your reviews. I have this honing guide and Delux that Veritas offer both do a very good job and covers (so far) every need I have for sharping, Have looked at in detail. Lie Nielsen and Woodpeckers guides but veritas has done very well on price and function. But want to thank you for your detailed and unbiased (all most all of the time) reviews. Please keep it up. "Just an old wood worker"
Haha I tried to stay unbiased but the price of LN hurt my soul haha
A better comparison maybe the mkII vs the LN but.... mkII isn't side clamping and takes more set uo so that's not fair haha
Thanks for the review. I agree, for the price the Veritas sounds like the way to go - unless you need all the extra attachments.
I was thinking "I need to buy the Veritas and save $100." I then remembered I have the Veritas MK.II jig and can't remember the last time I used it. It's not because I'm one of those master freehand sharpener, it's just that I haven't done much woodworking in the last few years. I do try to freehand sharpen, but it is a bit hit or miss. Sometimes I could split an atom with the end I've honed and other times I couldn't cut soft butter. Once I have time to get back to woodworking, I'll break would use it to set a bevel or reset it after I mess up one from freehand sharpening 🙂.
Ah! You deff need to get back into woodworking but I know life gets in the way lol
I have the MK II also, I'm going to keep them both for a while and see which one I want to keep keep haha or maybe it will be both depending on the application 😅
I have the Veritas as well as their MkII with the cambered roller. Great products. I love LN tools as well, but when it comes to innovation the Veritas products hit the mark almost every time. Their joinery planes, as you've mentioned, are untouched by any other manufacturer. I generally freehand now, but when I need to regrind an edge the jigs are handy and it doesn't hurt to use them once in a while to check how much freehand sharpening drift you've added over the various sharpening sessions. As a freehand sharpener, I still need the jigs. It gets real interesting when you consider that for the LN you could purchase the Veritas AND the Veritas MkII system - then for the price of a LN Jaw you can add the Veritas cambered roller or skew registration jig, etc. All great tools from 2 amazing companies.
I couldn't agree more with everything you said! Thank you!
Omg dude thank you for doing this video!!
No problem at all! I'm glad it helped!
I have the LN. I don't miss the $$$ I spent on it, because it's super nice and I use it many times every day. The narrow roller is not an issue in my opinion, because the squareness of your edge depends on you putting even pressure on both sides of the blade, not on the roller. (A wide roller won't save you if you're pressing harder on one side.) I have the long jaws for spokeshaves and irons with non-parallel sides (like the Veritas block plane). Not sure how this Veritas guide would sharpen a spokeshave iron, but otherwise it looks like a nice alternative.
Thank you for sharing!
The MKII can't do spoke shaves irons they have a small blade honing guide for that.
Do you have multiple guides for the diff jaws or do you unscrew them each time? Since you've used it a while how long does it take? I didn't feel it would be fair for me to show how long it takes to unscrew and screw on cus I'd deff be slower than someone that uses it everyday lol
Great video, it would be great if Lee Valley release a mortise chisel honing guide for about the same price. I would definitely buy it. I have both the MKII and the Veritas side clamping. I use the side clamping more often because it is easier to set up and go.
That would be cool! I can see then coming out with different attachments for it maybe. I see how something can be made to fit inside and make the holders more flat for mortise but that would take $$ away from their MKII haha
The veritas mkII has a skew attachment and a narrow blade jig. I find that the narrow blade jig has a similar problem with chisels popping out.great video thanks keep up the comparisons.
Another excellent vid.
Thank you! I appreciate that!
i have the veritas and use it regularly. great gadget! mortise chisels, i do freehand.
I gotta get better at freehand mortise chisels, they are awkward for me to hold hahah
@@BatCaveCreations i have the veritas power sharpener(the old one with 1" belt sander. it's great for mortise chisels too
that is a great idea too. I do have a belt sander with an adjustable table that would work!
I have the Veritas, Trend and Worksharp jigs and several others and have found that they work NO better than the cheapest side clamp jig on Amazon. They all work if you do your part and have decent stones. The cheap ones work especially well if you modify it per some old YT videos. The LN probably works better if you are willing to empty your wallet to buy all of the different jaws. I can't give first hand opinion on that as my wallet is already empty.
The modifications to the El-Cheapo's consist of filing the jaws to accommodate the loose tolerances. If I remember correctly, Chris Swartz did a video on this.
You are correct ppl can deff save money on getting the cheep ones and modifying them.
Also correct I don't want to and can't pour all that money just into the LN guide and jaws lol
I use the veritas mk II and i like it... but it's sort of a pain. multiple screws instead of 1. In hindsight I might have preferred the one you're showing. The good part of the Mk II is you don't need a separate registration jig becomes it comes with one. But more fiddling taking it on and off.
I agree 100% I'll prob end up keeping the mkII and Veritas side clamping depending on the application. Morice chisels, skew chisels, 1/8th chisels would be easier on the MKII if imma spend alot of time with it in the jig. Plane Irons and "standard chisels" I like how quick the side clamping is. Do you need both. NO is is convinent.... yes hahaha you know me by now haha
Thanks for doing this one and well presented as usual 👍
I was totally 😲😲😲😲at the price of the L-N one when I looked it up recently (after someone mentioned it in the comments of one of your previous vids! As you said, I'm sure the vast majority of potential buyers are going to see the Veritas as the much better buy .....assuming they don't go with a simpler Eclipse-style jig for a fraction of the price, or make one like Brent Beach's for practically free!
And gripes about L-N pricing *cough* _overpricing_ *cough* aside, theirs is simply not as well suited to work on chisels as the Veritas is straight outta the box. A wide wheel MUCH more easily allows one to consistently/easily hone the straight & square edge that 99.999% of users want on their chisels. Every. Single. One. Not counting skews of course 😎
fully agree with you!! I love LN stuff but the price kills it for me here (if you couldnt tell haha). Veritas is deff more universal and alot cheeper.
Eclipse jigs also work! the cheep ones on amazon also work! (with modification) but..... this should be a simple and affordable jig, it shouldn't be complicated and pricey! thats the other reason i struggle with LN, not only price but you have to unscrew 4 screws to change out the jaws then screw them in..... time time time lol
I don't have either of these, but just a note on the narrower roller on the LN. It's great/necessary for cambered irons. I have the cheap Eclipse knockoff which has a narrower roller. I'm looking at these and like the Veritas, but I don't think it would work well for my plane irons that have a slight camber. Thanks for the video!
Thank you! I did discuss that a bit, a true camber no I don't think the veritas would handle that well, but I don't do what ppl consider a true camber I just ease the corners a bit. for a true camber I would use the MKII with the cambered roller but..... I'm weird and don't do one hahahah I do want to do a video showing true camber vs what I do to show the difference. It is on the list for a later date :) Thank you! Great observation!
@@BatCaveCreations I found that comparison in the Veritas Side Clamp vs Mk 2 video. That's helpful and makes sense! Thanks for putting these out.
@@ToddChilton no problem at all!! Happy to help!!
I use the Veritas MK II. My chief complaint with this jig and the same would apply to the side hold Veritas you reviewed, is the painted contact surfaces that affect registration of the tool. IMO it is this paint on what should be machined surfaces (see the Lie-Nielsen jig) is what creates the often complained about “out of square” bevel results in the Veritas jigs. The machining of the registration surfaces of the LN probably accounts for a significant portion of the price difference. If Veritas machined these surfaces the extra production steps, tooling, fixtures and manpower to do it would dramatically affect pricing. While some people get lucky and acquire Veritas jigs that happed to be square, others end up with out of square jigs. The bevel does not have to be perfectly square to the sides, all our planes have lateral adjustment ability, but it is usually disturbing to some. All this said, still using my slightly out of square Veritas MKII.
Oooh you bring up a great point I never considered. I never thought about the painted surface effecting this but you are 100% correct it does. We are talking about a very thin layer but if that very thin layer isn't perfectly thin accross the surface. It does have an effect. Thank you!!
I was thinking the the smaller bearing would be a positive for plane irons where you wanted a bit of camber. With the Veritas, can you get the iron cambered with finger pressure difference? With their previous style honing guide, they sell a separate curved bearing. Or do not use cambered blades. I don't remember you mentioning them in your sharpening videos.
I thought about that too and checked it out a bit, I do a very very slight camber on the iron so the veritas one works when I just put more pressure on one side.
Most of my cambers are done on the free hand micro bevels but still very slight. The camber wheel on the MKII is actually more of a camber than I do lol
I'm weird, I know ppl like cambers but... I just ease the edge slightly to where the corner doesn't dig other than that I like having the full width of the iron cutting
BTW re. the slipping hold on your pigstickers, I presume that has to be from the slight taper so I have a theory - if you place a fat shaving or a piece of paper alongside the chisel the guides might hold more securely once the shim gets compressed fully.
oooooh! this is smart! Even electrical tape would work! something to give it that extra bite! Thank you! I am going to try that!
I own the MKII set and just got the new side clamping model you show today. It did skew the iron immediately, and required pressing right onto the other side of the chisel to get it to start to come anything back like a 90 degree line.
A lot of people have said this - it's the main feedback I can find wherever I look it up.
Is it a defect in the design or user error, and people are meant to keep looking every few seconds and lean one way or the other?
I've seen both user error and a few design issues. The main user error is that it wasn't seated in the groves that parallel to each other. The easiest way around that is to get the iron in position and slightly sigten it then pick the iron up and let the jig hang then tighten it down slowly.
Hand pressure is huge with all jigs (have to say that for my own mental health haha)
But if you check it with calipers or something and it's off deff reach out to customer service and they will make it right
The skew capability led me to the LN honing guide. It’s the only one I’ve seen that can hold the LN skew blades.
I don't have any LN skew blades but I know the MKII from Veritas does skew blades. Either way, I'm glad you found one thay will work for you! Thats most important!
Could you please review the - KAKURI Honing Guide Sharpening Jig for Chisels and Plane Irons - , made in Japan. The extra wide roller combined with the wide finger rests seems to be more stable. Also I think using a digital magnetic angle measure tool easily sets up your blade. Oh, another great review, thanks again. Amazon Prime -$57.80
I actually thought about getting that one to do a review on; however, I see a few flaws with it that made me change my mind.
It is only top clamping and just a round piece not a bar so not alot of support meaning the iron could shift in use. Particularly with bevel edge chisels. Plane Irons you may be ok.
I also notice that there is nothing to tell you if you are square meaning you will have to bust out a square and check a few times during set u. Snug the iron down, check, snug, check, snug, check till its tight and secure.
I love the idea of a super wide roller if you are on flat stones or diamond plates. I could see an issue with this wide of a roller on sandpaper if it is not perfectly flat.
But! I reccomended that my buddy check that one out because of the handles. He has issues with his hands too. So if you have issues with your hands and holding a jig as small as the veritas or Lie Nielsen that would be a good one, esp cus I haven't seen any like it. Just keep an eye on the things I mentioned. After you use it for a while those checks for square and how to clamp securely will become memory so they won't be as big of an issue.
Last note, I could do a review of this vs thw Veritas MKII; however, the MKII hs a bull bar that clamps down on the iron and has a reference attachment to make sure you are square. So it wouldn't be fair to the japaneese one. The MKII is also bigger than the side clamping jigs and it was a game changer for me when I got it because I have issues with my hands too and needed something more to hold on to.plus it has alot of attachments and features you will like. But... that does get pricey haha
I hope this helps!!
I have the veritas and have been having a lot of trouble trying to keep the tip square when sharpening
It is tough to do on all of this style. Pressure players a huge roll on that and if the iron is out of square the bevel won't be square it will be off till it gets squares out.
Try putting more pressure on one side or the other if you see if cutting heavy on 1 side put more pressure on the other
I have the Veritas and I have only found one problem with it, my stones were mounted about an inch apart and with the clamping knob being almost the same diameter as the roller I found it rubbed on the next stone over.
Ah that is good to know! Thank you!!
whats the max angle you can get before the jig touches the sharpening stone? for both
Great question! Veritas can go up to 40 and LN can go up to 50
I can't recall if you've done a video with the Veritas Mk II honing jig that clamps from the top. I'm curious to see how that compares to the Veritas side clamping jig.
I thought about doing that but I thunk they are in different leagues and wouldn't be fair lol
But if I focused the review to just the side clamp in the MKII and the side clampnjig that would be fair.
I'm brainstorming it because it is possible just.... gotta think it through :D
@@BatCaveCreations *insert Shia LeBouf Do It gif*
I've got the MK2 (both side and top clamping head) but considering selling them to get this side camping one. I just got a Tormek which I now use for resetting angles and repairs, so I really only use the MK2 for narrow chisels that are hard to freehand hone. But I find the MK2 a bit of a hassle to set up, so this one might be great as a faster alternative. What do you think?
Hey John! This video may help you decide: ua-cam.com/video/A7X6YpjlmIA/v-deo.html
Nice review. While I’d have liked to have seen more similar guides included, you did showcase the better two of that configuration. Often these review have a real bias, like Rob Cosman’s apologetics defending Lee Neilsen, or other tool reviewers who lean toward Temu avaliable import tools. I live beside a Lee Valley store so I just typically buy stuff from there and so far the Veritas stuff has served well, though I do get that look from my spouse when I return from a buying excursion. 😂
I would be completely and utterly broke if I lived next to a Lee Valley that is one of the best places on earth imo ahha
@@BatCaveCreations yes I went down there to buy the Veritas Side-Clamping Honing Guide as my arthritis is getting really bad holding narrow chisels consistently. My 30 year old generic grey guide has a narrow wheel as opposed to the VSCHG with its wider brass wheel and just wasn’t doing it for me - plus it subtly allows for off-ninety degree clamping though you can modify them with a file. I balked at the price of the further upgrade they recommended in the Mk II once down there but felt it would be better than the cheaper Veritas in your excellent review. I took it back the next day (heck honey, it was my birthday) and got the full meal deal with the Deluxe Honing Guide Set that included the standard and narrow-blade guides plus a cambered roller. Now I can do it all though according to my FB woodworking group I’m especially not a true woodworker now, not doing it by hand and sight alone. I did some deep wedged tenons the other day and it’s so easy to keep the secondary bevel bat crazy sharp with total repeatability.
@fogsmart ignore the people on Facebook! They are keyboard warriors for no reason!!
That is why I got the MKII also, hand issues and if I need to hone that long I need something to hold on to lol
I'm glad it works for you! And Lee Valley needs a punch card, visit 2 days in a row and get a 10% discount hahahah
Have you tried those chinese jigs from BangGood? I got one and not sure what to think about it? Not even sure the angles are right. Any experiences?
I haven't tried them :( sorry!
5:27 I did contact LV customer service and they emailed me the detailed measurements. Sorry I tried to add it my comments but could not do it.
Good!! I am glad they were able to provide them! They have amazing customer service!
The Veritas MKII is the best thing since sliced tofu
I love this cus i know you anyone else would be like.... wtf? Hahaha
Holy crap.. that price difference!
RIGHT!!! like this should be a simple and affordable tool and i think Veritas hit that nail on the head! LN.... $$$ and you have to buy all the diff jaws $$$ and then unscrew 4 screws to change out the jaws...... :(
Do you store your chisels in the role permanently, or do you have a tool wall?
In there permanently, my shop is in my basement so I don't have alot of wall space :( so planes and everything are stored under rmy bench in some shelving I created. Plus in western PA we have a huge issue with rust so everything needs to be in a roll, container, sock something or it get rust by almost immediately lol
My lie Neilson is money well spent-excelenti product, but the Lv looks useful, sure.
I plan to buy the Veritas but thanks for the free screen shot.🇨🇦👍👨🦳
I'm a freehand warrior
Do my best
I just can't get on with the guides
I get you! Nothing wrong with that as long as ur having fun!
Just liked and sub'd MJ from just plane fun sent me... ✌️😏
Thank you!! MJ is awesome! We want to do a collab video at some point :D
Is the veritas made completely of metal? The black part looks like plastic.
It's metal, I thought the same thing lol
I think I’ll just stick with my $15 Eclipse knock off….
Hey they work too! Nothing wrong with that!
If only they could be used for Japanese chisels.
Neither of them can? Let us know why!
@Bat Cave Creations they have a slight taper to them so parallel faces of the jig do not properly engage, also the bevel on the sides provides small contact area with the faces. That is why I got the Veritas Mk2 jig.
@@anthonyseiver7000 ah ok good to know! Thank you!!
@@anthonyseiver7000 Neither of these work with Japanese Chisels?
@John my Japanese chisels have a slight taper meaning the parallel sides don't cinch up
Slow down man.
That narrow roller is on purpose, it's for adding camber to a iron.
That is true, I felt like it tilted it to far to the side. That is just my preference tho some people like that kind of camber and that is ok :D
The smaller roller is so you can camber the irons...
You can camber on the Veritas too, what I found was that if I was just trying to do a normal sharpen the Veritas was easy to keep level and could still add my camber when I was ready. 99% of woodworking is preference so others may like the small roller and have no issue with it.
Lie Neilson seems to be using their name to get premium prices. Specially in Canada its almost impossible. That is unless I win @CIHI Shah.
Veritas MKII is the one I have it's great !
I fully agree with LN using their name!