Many people hardly think about their torso. When they're asked to make movements with their torso, often the movements can seem almost impossible to do. Simply put, most people are unaware of their torso and how important its condition is during all activities and movements. This video begins a series on the torso, where we will take a deep dive into understanding how to self-manipulate your torso for the better. This first video explains what the torso is and starts to examine what is the optimal shape of the torso. I offer lessons in the Initial Alexander Technique, which are conducted one-on-one with a teacher over Zoom. They are designed to help you gain conscious control over how you move your body. Most people have no idea what they’re doing with their body, and as they misuse their body, they end up with discomfort, pain, and other issues that they may not even realize are caused by what they’re doing to themselves. But how do you figure out what you’re doing wrong? And how do you change what you're doing and overcome lifelong habits? In an Initial Alexander Technique lesson, you will record yourself through Zoom, so you will be able to see and understand what you are doing when you stand, sit, walk, and perform other simple gestures. With the assistance of your teacher, you will come to understand how you are misusing the mechanisms of your body, and you will gain the ability to choose to use yourself in a more sensible way. You can learn how to use your body without pain. You can break free from long held habits. All you need is a system that works. For more information or to book a lesson, please visit my website: mechanicsofpoise.com/ You can contact me at: DelsarteAlexanderMasoeroYou@protonmail.com "I propose a great, a worthy subject for your study. ... I offer you a work superior even to those sciences which have been described to you; superior to all which the genius of a Michaelangelo or a Raphael could conceive; a work in comparison with which all the magnificences of science and art must pale. I propose that you should contemplate yourselves! Nothing is so unfamiliar to man as himself." François Delsarte Special thanks to LJ for help with image editing.
Hi thank you for sharing your concepts and ideas. I agree that the ribcage is often posteriorly tilted, but I am not really sure about the sternum being vertical. Looking at indigenous people from different part of the world, they don't seems to have the front of the chest 90 degree to the ground. I think that yes, the ribcage and pelvis should be pulled back and the center of mass shift backward but not necessarly to the point where the sternum is completely. Plus, we didn't take account the respiration yet.
There has been lively debate around whether or not primitive people do have or should have good use/posture for a long time. There is also real question about whether there are any untouched, truly primitive people left on earth to even see what their use is like. While I think it’s an interesting topic, I don’t think the evidence from non-civilized people is particularly strong, and it’s certainly not my primary consideration when it comes to a question like: should the sternum be vertical or angled? In the Initial Alexander Technique System, students record their lessons with video to watch back. The lengthening that occurs during a lesson is objective and can easily be seen in the video, and it’s clear that when a person angles their sternum (and ribcage), the person shortens - visibly. So for me, I would need to see compelling evidence to believe otherwise. As for respiration, from the iAT perspective, we do not want inspiration or expiration to cause tilting of the ribcage. While that’s a common habit, I don’t see why that would be desirable. Puling the sternum back during inspiration is particularly irrational, as it will restrict your airway and reduce the capacity of your thorax. But these ideas are certainly not the most common ones, so I would not expect anyone to be completely convinced immediately. And I’m always happy to receive counter arguments or probing questions.
I am of the view that Jeando methodology brings a lot of value and has helped me personally as well. Two questions with a few points. 1. At Min 4:13; I am sure the other person is wrong but I also feel that you are over corrected (too much rolled forward from the shoulders). 2. I have yet to see FM's picture where he is in this configuration Question 1 : Are we trying here to create a 'plank position' in vertical? Question 2: Further to the 'coordination' that you exhibited at min 4:13 . If this is really a 'good functional orientation' then we should be able to see top class athletes somewhat in that form as well. Any examples? Again I would add here that I value what you have done on ur UA-cam channel, I may have a slight difference of opinion here but i cant agree more to what you have been propagating. I will get in touch with you soon.
The image at 4:13 is not perfect, however I would disagree on the point that the shoulders are too far forward. I certainly see why it would appear that way, as my shoulders in that image are much further than what you are used to seeing. You didn’t really give an argument as to why they are too forward. I made a couple videos just before this one that explain my thoughts on the matter. But if you just look at the state of the arm, you can see that having the arm/shoulder that far forward allows the arms to rest vertically straight. If you pull it back from where I have it there, the arm will end up bent or angled. I don’t think it really matters whether we have a picture of FM in this configuration, but if you go to the website for the Initial Alexander Technique, you will find many pictures of FM that are analyzed in regard to this question. But I don’t agree with FM on everything, on certain matters I completely disagree with him. His work was groundbreaking and is important, but we also must advance it and be willing to contradict FM when it’s appropriate. “If this is really a 'good functional orientation' then we should be able to see top class athletes somewhat in that form as well. Any examples?” It’s a common misconception that athletes have good posture. Sadly, great athletes, particularly in modern times, do not have good posture. Great athletes are very athletic, strong and/or fast. But who do they compete against? Other people with poor posture. If we assume for the moment that essentially all people in the modern world have poor use, then all we can say about great athletes is that they are the strongest and fastest of all the people with poor use. There is no reason to assume their use is good, and the visual evidence suggests their use is as poor as anyone’s. Being trained to be very good at a specific act or set of acts is not the same as having a general ability to use yourself correctly. I appreciate your thoughts, and I invite you to always feel encouraged to challenge or question what I put forward. I try to make reasoned arguments for what I’m claiming, and I welcome reasoned counter arguments. We should all question when someone makes a claim, the lack of questioning is part of why so many bad ideas about use and posture have proliferated.
@@delsartealexandermasoeroyo9147 Hi thanks for the detailed reply. I will keep my mind open about your stance on the orientation of the shoulders and upper arms and will keep on experimenting with it. i will have a few lessons from you soon.
@@rashidiqbal8425 Experimenting is just the right attitude to have! I don’t have anything at hand I can give you on the jaw or tongue. Those are important areas of consideration, but I would also say they’re not a good starting place. A student needs to be capable of directing the top of their sternum forward (to straighten out the ribcage) first before beginning to work on the head, jaw, and tongue, because having the sternum pulled back at the top will pull the jaw and base of tongue back and down (which is undesirable).
I seem to have a bit of a problem moving my upper sternum forward. With the head and shoulders and arms, I can obviously feel and easily move them to where I want. How does the upper sternum move forward? Does it move/rotate forward when we pull the lower sternum, ribs back? If I try to move it forward I would notice myself falling forward from the pivot of the feet. Only thing that stops me is moving my sit bones/sacrum forward.
The ribcage can be thought of like a box. Most people push the lower end forward, which causes the upper end to come back - it rotates. We want to rotate the ribcage the other way, so that the lower end comes back and up and the upper end goes forward and up. Most people will struggle at first with getting the upper sternum forward without also moving the lower sternum forward. You need the antagonistic action of the lower sternum and lower ribs going back as you get the upper sternum forward and up, if you want to stay in equilibrium and not end up having too much weight forward.
@delsartealexandermasoeroyo9147 Thanks! I think it was because in my mind I keep thinking the upper sternum is level with the areola breast area, now I am trying to hold this area back (and up) and also trying to move the area up and forward above it (upper sternum), I'm feeling a lot of strain on the areola/breast area, although still not seeing any movement of the upper sternum. Is it possible my lower sternum is too far forward?
This is great! Thank you so much!! I am curious how you may advise a person with pectus excavatum to align the sternum. When moving around it felt good to push both my upper and lower sternum forward. It also seemed to possibly help bring my lower ribs back.
@@ChristopherB777 I’ve yet to have a student with pectus excavatum, so I can’t give you a super precise answer. But I would think that getting the lower ribs back (and up) while moving both the lower and upper sternum forward in space and up away from the pelvis would probably be a good idea. I would most likely not use the direction of lower sternum back (which is needed for the vast majority of people, but would probably not be good for those with pectus excavatum).
@@delsartealexandermasoeroyo9147 thank you so much for your response! I will continue to practice, in different positions, and look forward to exploring your content more.
These videos are so messy. One thing that stands out to me is that you're trying too hard to explain and prove formally even the most obvious things. For example, at 1:40 you try too hard to convince the viewer that "re-orienting the pelvis and the ribcage results in bending the back", when to me this is such an obvious and intuitive fact. You sound like an alien who has just learned the anatomy of humans and is now trying to explain it to a real human. Second, the information is presented in a pretty unorganized way. Usually, people will present the main point, the "big picture", and then go into the why's and how's, and leave the proofs and details for the end. You, on the other hand, mix it all together, and then even repeat yourself a lot of times.
Many people hardly think about their torso. When they're asked to make movements with their torso, often the movements can seem almost impossible to do. Simply put, most people are unaware of their torso and how important its condition is during all activities and movements. This video begins a series on the torso, where we will take a deep dive into understanding how to self-manipulate your torso for the better. This first video explains what the torso is and starts to examine what is the optimal shape of the torso.
I offer lessons in the Initial Alexander Technique, which are conducted one-on-one with a teacher over Zoom. They are designed to help you gain conscious control over how you move your body. Most people have no idea what they’re doing with their body, and as they misuse their body, they end up with discomfort, pain, and other issues that they may not even realize are caused by what they’re doing to themselves. But how do you figure out what you’re doing wrong? And how do you change what you're doing and overcome lifelong habits?
In an Initial Alexander Technique lesson, you will record yourself through Zoom, so you will be able to see and understand what you are doing when you stand, sit, walk, and perform other simple gestures. With the assistance of your teacher, you will come to understand how you are misusing the mechanisms of your body, and you will gain the ability to choose to use yourself in a more sensible way. You can learn how to use your body without pain. You can break free from long held habits. All you need is a system that works.
For more information or to book a lesson, please visit my website: mechanicsofpoise.com/
You can contact me at: DelsarteAlexanderMasoeroYou@protonmail.com
"I propose a great, a worthy subject for your study. ... I offer you a work superior even to those sciences which have been described to you; superior to all which the genius of a Michaelangelo or a Raphael could conceive; a work in comparison with which all the magnificences of science and art must pale. I propose that you should contemplate yourselves! Nothing is so unfamiliar to man as himself."
François Delsarte
Special thanks to LJ for help with image editing.
Thank you
Is there any published research paper on the benefit of a vertical sternum? Could you kindly link some I'm eager to read?
Hi thank you for sharing your concepts and ideas. I agree that the ribcage is often posteriorly tilted, but I am not really sure about the sternum being vertical. Looking at indigenous people from different part of the world, they don't seems to have the front of the chest 90 degree to the ground. I think that yes, the ribcage and pelvis should be pulled back and the center of mass shift backward but not necessarly to the point where the sternum is completely. Plus, we didn't take account the respiration yet.
There has been lively debate around whether or not primitive people do have or should have good use/posture for a long time. There is also real question about whether there are any untouched, truly primitive people left on earth to even see what their use is like. While I think it’s an interesting topic, I don’t think the evidence from non-civilized people is particularly strong, and it’s certainly not my primary consideration when it comes to a question like: should the sternum be vertical or angled?
In the Initial Alexander Technique System, students record their lessons with video to watch back. The lengthening that occurs during a lesson is objective and can easily be seen in the video, and it’s clear that when a person angles their sternum (and ribcage), the person shortens - visibly. So for me, I would need to see compelling evidence to believe otherwise.
As for respiration, from the iAT perspective, we do not want inspiration or expiration to cause tilting of the ribcage. While that’s a common habit, I don’t see why that would be desirable. Puling the sternum back during inspiration is particularly irrational, as it will restrict your airway and reduce the capacity of your thorax.
But these ideas are certainly not the most common ones, so I would not expect anyone to be completely convinced immediately. And I’m always happy to receive counter arguments or probing questions.
Hi, thanks for the channel. Just one question: is a neck up to atlas also considered as a part of a torso?
No, the torso stops at the top of the ribcage.
I am of the view that Jeando methodology brings a lot of value and has helped me personally as well. Two questions with a few points.
1. At Min 4:13; I am sure the other person is wrong but I also feel that you are over corrected (too much rolled forward from the shoulders).
2. I have yet to see FM's picture where he is in this configuration
Question 1 : Are we trying here to create a 'plank position' in vertical?
Question 2: Further to the 'coordination' that you exhibited at min 4:13 . If this is really a 'good functional orientation' then we should be able to see top class athletes somewhat in that form as well. Any examples?
Again I would add here that I value what you have done on ur UA-cam channel, I may have a slight difference of opinion here but i cant agree more to what you have been propagating. I will get in touch with you soon.
The image at 4:13 is not perfect, however I would disagree on the point that the shoulders are too far forward. I certainly see why it would appear that way, as my shoulders in that image are much further than what you are used to seeing. You didn’t really give an argument as to why they are too forward. I made a couple videos just before this one that explain my thoughts on the matter. But if you just look at the state of the arm, you can see that having the arm/shoulder that far forward allows the arms to rest vertically straight. If you pull it back from where I have it there, the arm will end up bent or angled.
I don’t think it really matters whether we have a picture of FM in this configuration, but if you go to the website for the Initial Alexander Technique, you will find many pictures of FM that are analyzed in regard to this question. But I don’t agree with FM on everything, on certain matters I completely disagree with him. His work was groundbreaking and is important, but we also must advance it and be willing to contradict FM when it’s appropriate.
“If this is really a 'good functional orientation' then we should be able to see top class athletes somewhat in that form as well. Any examples?”
It’s a common misconception that athletes have good posture. Sadly, great athletes, particularly in modern times, do not have good posture. Great athletes are very athletic, strong and/or fast. But who do they compete against? Other people with poor posture. If we assume for the moment that essentially all people in the modern world have poor use, then all we can say about great athletes is that they are the strongest and fastest of all the people with poor use. There is no reason to assume their use is good, and the visual evidence suggests their use is as poor as anyone’s. Being trained to be very good at a specific act or set of acts is not the same as having a general ability to use yourself correctly.
I appreciate your thoughts, and I invite you to always feel encouraged to challenge or question what I put forward. I try to make reasoned arguments for what I’m claiming, and I welcome reasoned counter arguments. We should all question when someone makes a claim, the lack of questioning is part of why so many bad ideas about use and posture have proliferated.
@@delsartealexandermasoeroyo9147
Hi thanks for the detailed reply. I will keep my mind open about your stance on the orientation of the shoulders and upper arms and will keep on experimenting with it.
i will have a few lessons from you soon.
Do you have any writings that talk about the jaw and tongue? if yes then please link it here.
@@rashidiqbal8425 Experimenting is just the right attitude to have!
I don’t have anything at hand I can give you on the jaw or tongue. Those are important areas of consideration, but I would also say they’re not a good starting place. A student needs to be capable of directing the top of their sternum forward (to straighten out the ribcage) first before beginning to work on the head, jaw, and tongue, because having the sternum pulled back at the top will pull the jaw and base of tongue back and down (which is undesirable).
I seem to have a bit of a problem moving my upper sternum forward. With the head and shoulders and arms, I can obviously feel and easily move them to where I want. How does the upper sternum move forward? Does it move/rotate forward when we pull the lower sternum, ribs back? If I try to move it forward I would notice myself falling forward from the pivot of the feet. Only thing that stops me is moving my sit bones/sacrum forward.
The ribcage can be thought of like a box. Most people push the lower end forward, which causes the upper end to come back - it rotates. We want to rotate the ribcage the other way, so that the lower end comes back and up and the upper end goes forward and up. Most people will struggle at first with getting the upper sternum forward without also moving the lower sternum forward. You need the antagonistic action of the lower sternum and lower ribs going back as you get the upper sternum forward and up, if you want to stay in equilibrium and not end up having too much weight forward.
@delsartealexandermasoeroyo9147 Thanks! I think it was because in my mind I keep thinking the upper sternum is level with the areola breast area, now I am trying to hold this area back (and up) and also trying to move the area up and forward above it (upper sternum), I'm feeling a lot of strain on the areola/breast area, although still not seeing any movement of the upper sternum. Is it possible my lower sternum is too far forward?
This is great! Thank you so much!! I am curious how you may advise a person with pectus excavatum to align the sternum. When moving around it felt good to push both my upper and lower sternum forward. It also seemed to possibly help bring my lower ribs back.
@@ChristopherB777 I’ve yet to have a student with pectus excavatum, so I can’t give you a super precise answer. But I would think that getting the lower ribs back (and up) while moving both the lower and upper sternum forward in space and up away from the pelvis would probably be a good idea. I would most likely not use the direction of lower sternum back (which is needed for the vast majority of people, but would probably not be good for those with pectus excavatum).
@@delsartealexandermasoeroyo9147 thank you so much for your response! I will continue to practice, in different positions, and look forward to exploring your content more.
These videos are so messy. One thing that stands out to me is that you're trying too hard to explain and prove formally even the most obvious things. For example, at 1:40 you try too hard to convince the viewer that "re-orienting the pelvis and the ribcage results in bending the back", when to me this is such an obvious and intuitive fact. You sound like an alien who has just learned the anatomy of humans and is now trying to explain it to a real human.
Second, the information is presented in a pretty unorganized way. Usually, people will present the main point, the "big picture", and then go into the why's and how's, and leave the proofs and details for the end. You, on the other hand, mix it all together, and then even repeat yourself a lot of times.