Yes, it fits perfectly ;-) It's a fake, constructed of a few "chopinesque" phrases. But the fff makes no sense in such a short fragment and the bottom A for so long at the beginning of a ( even longer planned ) piece seems to be too artificial. And it just sounds a little cheap, can't help it.
@@paulmeisel339 Pretty clever fake if it is one. His use of diminished 7ths and chromatic themes is doable, but there is a lot more to it than that. You have to be a talented composer to come up with all the echoes so naturally, and really get into Chopin's head. It's It's a bit raucous here and there, but then so are some of his preludes! However, the writing and manuscript paper would take some serious faking - if there was money to me made I might be more suspicious...
Agreed but even the Mazurkas are marked by harmonic evolution; whether voicing changes, passing notes in the relative key to comment on two. Love the Mazurkas as they are a gateway for players sincere in wishing to play the more complex and compelling music.
"Immediately unrecognisable but instantly recognisable" - that's it in a nutshell. If I had heard this without the context of the tale of a discovered ms, I'd have sworn blind it was Chopin but then have become confused at not knowing which specific piece. Even if the card had been written in Elton John's handwriting I'd be on the side of Team "That's odd, I am 110% sure it's Chopin"! (Edit add-on): Incidentally this is my first listen of it. Sir, you have the honour of being the messenger to my ears of this very charming and densely musical New Thing. You do it with just the perfect mix of panache, chat and Loki.
@@marikothecheetah9342 Do you mean Op.9 No.2 (in Eb major)? That's one of my faves, too. More than 50y ago, I bought a whole book of Chopin sheet music just because that Nocturne was in it! Fred
I was thinking that if someone wrote this in his style, then that guy is worth listening to cos this is almost impossible to deny that it is Chopin's writing. And I can't explain why.
I think what clinches it is the inevitanility of that c major breakthrough turning on a dime, back into a minor with elegance and conviction: he makes it feel satisfying(!) to be back in the land of tears after the the clouds quickly hide the sun. Man, that's why I stayed away from Chopin most of my life- couldn't handle the tragedy and gloom. Now I can. I've grown up!
@@JoeLinux2000I think, it's a fake. Just a few "chopinesque" Phrases in a row. The bottom A for so long doesn't make musical sense and Chopin would never had written fff in such a short fragment. It's a mediocre fake for UA-camrs...
Yes Utsyo - it’s structurally related certainly (though op. 7 no. 5 is even more concise and more ostentatiously folky!) And there is also the wonderful late ‘infinite’ mazurka in F minor and a couple of other ‘infinite’ mazurkas which resemble it in form and character.
The development of one simple chromatic fall. Chopin is able to make the most pained screams elegant and the tamest transitions barbaric in their own right, a very personal style. And I love it!
Amazing video. I'm very satisfied in the way you performed the waltz, I agree with your performance. I Indeed think this was composed by Chopin even if at the beginning I was skeptical. I finished the whole waltz, I mean I composed the rest to finish it and performed it on my channel, I also wrote an article analyzing it, but I will make a compositional and harmonic video in the future too cause this is a very fascinating piece!
Great analyse, thank you! I lack your expert knowledge, but l know Chopin's music extremely well by heart, being a lover for over 30 years. I heard his voice in this piece instantly. If this should prove a forgery, the impostor must be equally amazing, and I want to know him/her. The introduction reminded me immediately of Chopin's Prelude op.28/14, the whole thing has a sort of slightly demonic, ominous atmosphere (like waltzing with the devil). And yet so classy. I don't know any other composer of Chopin's era who could create such marvellous, ambivalent, even disturbing moods with such grace and elegance. (Maybe some would point out Wagner, but I disagree, Wagner was daring and very expressive in his own right, but I wouldn't describe his music as elegant or graceful!)
Another thing, I'm betting this is the first page of a longer piece that was completed but the other pages are still missing. And your analysis is wonderful. Thank you.
I thoroughly enjoyed this--thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and comments on this recently discovered tiny but delectable bit of Chopin! Interesting that the waltz is in A minor since we know--or at least I recall reading as much--that Chopin's own favorite of his Waltzes was the melancholy one in A minor.
I knew it was Chopin as soon as I heard it. This is so magical to me, it's as if we're hearing something Chopin wrote from beyond the grave. Him dying at 39 is the greatest tragedy in all of music.
Thanks so much for breaking it down like that it really helps us mere mortals. I felt guilty when the new one dropped as I haven't listened to all the existing ones yet 😅 but I certainly will now.
Saw the news clip of this with Lang Lang debuting it, this is just so cool! In fact, I might give it a go at playing it myself. I reckon the number of people who have played this beautiful gem so far is less than 10,000, maybe even less than 1,000. When else can you say that about Chopin?
It's not Chopin. It's a fake, clickbait and playbait. Some "chopinesque" Phrases thrown on the page, but the bottom A for so long makes no sense. Same with the fff in such a short fragment. And it sounds just a little cheap too.
@@paulmeisel339 no, his posthumous waltzes are all kinda boring, they’re quick gifts for friends, he actually told his sister to burn them but luckily she disobeyed him.
First up: great performance. Splendid commentary and highlighting the contrast with the recent (classical tropes) early Mozart and also AI versus human genius. Thanks!
I have nothing to add to your analysis, you put this beautifully, Professor, thank you! (Ah, I'll say, the waltz is hauntingly beautiful, I can't get enough of it, so there). I wonder what would've been of it had Chopin written a couple of additional episodes to go with the main theme; in the end, I just hope it becomes the runaway hit of 2024, 200 years late for the composer but never too late for us music lovers.
My personal dream would be for someone to miraculously discover the completed Latin Requiem by Max Reger. He died too early to complete this monster of a work.
Thank you for sharing this, I just heard about this a few days ago. It certainly sounds like his music. No other composure wrote for the piano like him..
Thanks so much for this! Quite an extraordinary little piece! Very worthwhile discovery. When it comes to Mozart, I agree about the little serenade...but it is worth listening to, I think...especially the second movement and the catchy little finale. Of Mozart's early stuff, there are some pretty precocious works in my opinion: especially vocal efforts like the opera Mitridate, and the oratorio La Betulia liberata, with gripping minor key choruses and the lead given, unusually, to a contralto! I guess the composer's dramatic gift may have developed before his full compositional maturity? Supposedly he liked Betulia so much that it was performed again with some newly composed choruses (now lost!) in Vienna in 1784. Now THOSE I would like to see turn up in somebody's library!
I just about spit out my coffee when I saw the title of this video! Chopin is the peak of the pyramid of my favorite composers, and perhaps the one composer whose music I could not imagine my life without. Thank you for sharing this miniature wonder!
Well… as a pianist/composer myself I played tons of Chopin in my life - enough to “filter out” certain ways of Chopin’s thinking process, certain hand and fingers positions etc. This short “waltz” if this is indeed authentic Chopin’s manuscript, shows few things that show certain inconsistencies when it comes down to his stylistics as a composer/improviser. This could have been either an attempt for a full composition that never got continued (eventually abandoned and forgotten by the composer) or a short gift scribbled quickly without refining so characteristic to Chopin. There’s another possibility : the following pages have either been lost or still wait to be discovered somewhere… After playing through the sheet music from this video (stopping the screen) looking throughout the 1-page manuscript photo online, I am almost positive it is Chopin, but either not-refined (Chopin was extremely detailed with virtually everything he has ever written) or refinement and development (especially the left hand) happens in continuation. Hopefully we’ll find it one day 😊
Wonderful Chopin. Clearly authentic - but I can’t help feeling it’s incomplete. Somewhere, in some dusty library, the whole thing awaits in all its published glory.
You know my first reaction to hearing this piece was how uncharacteristic it was for Chopin to have written a waltz in this way. Because it sounds more like a mazurka. Which made me question its originality. However, as it moves into a waltz rhythm I do recognize Chopin’s style of writing for a waltz. But your analysis does establish it as an original composition by Chopin.
Yes, we know nothing about the circumstances of its composition - it may well be a little 'infinity mazurka' (he wrote a couple of others) and this one may have been sketched out for a pupil or a fan.
Thank for your standing on AI. It is for people like you, that are to be in the vanguard of artist to protect human kind from the power of computer programmers. Not only in music but in litrature, 2D/3D art, performance and all aspects of human creation. Keep the criticism of AI biting and hurtful to the programmers. You cant hurt an inaminate snd souless computer.
I think it's lovely and very chopinesque. Probably, a fragment or sketch that could have been developed into a much larger piece, but also works as it is. If it turns out to be a faux discovery, i it is well done. I wonder how this piece ended up in a library-museum in NY
It is definitely Chopinesque, and the 1830s was probably the most bold decade with Berlioz, Mendelssohn, Schumann and early Liszt like Malediction, Harmonies Poetiques and Apparitions.
It sounds very Chopin to me, but on Dutch television there was a pianist an Chopin lover that casted doubt on it, and I can't unhear her doubt. Could you see how this maybe could not be Chopin?
I can’t really answer her doubts because I haven’t heard what she said. I would say the main issues are to do with the manuscript which has curious anomalies (like the fff marking which is very unusual for Chopin). I would suggest that these have possibly been added in later, possibly by another person but, whatever they are, in a sense, they contribute to a sense of authenticity because weird palimpsestic things happen to old documents. Besides, a forger is unlikely to create deliberate anomalies like these. Above all, in terms of musical style and character, it seems too typical of him (in a somewhat unexpected way) to be inauthentic. To me it has the ring of truth about it. No one knows for sure but it seems highly likely that it’s the real deal.
Early I see also I heard rumour of a few hidden waltzes and polonaises in private collections chopin did write a waltz in B major its just in a private collection
This makes me so happy. I would love it if his ideas had been worked out further but what's there is an instant top work of his for me. Could one work a little ornamentation and emphasis into it and maybe play it twice or three times, to see how it works as an extended piece in repeated succession? Not sure what tools are available for interpretation that don't change it too much. I might try to play your rendition in a loop and see if any parts compound for me. Thank you so much for covering this :)
@@matthewking1873 There are elements that feel introductory to me that I might not have for the first repetition, maybe introduce it for the final as a sort of return... I think I'll experiment a bit. The melancholy feels especially strong in this to me, can't help but be touched by it
With so much interest in it, I think certain people may develop it, and there will end up being many different versions. It could even become an element of the International Chopin competition to comp0lete it or improvise on it.
Indeed. Many of his waltzes seem a little bit superficial to me. Nice but nothing special. This one grips you by the throat right away and it makes you wish there was more of it.
There are two oddities here which are uncharacteristic of Chopin. In the manuscript a basic rhythmic error shows up three times, where triplet 8th notes are written as triplet 16ths. It’s impossible to imagine Chopin capable of this, considering the ubiquity of this pattern throughout his waltzes and mazurkas. Also throughout these collections of dances one finds not a single fff marking. Stylistically the waltz’s individual passages seem sufficiently Chopinesque to believe it may be authentic, but the excessive drama and dissonance so early on and in such a miniature seem to protest too much. But the manuscript looks far too genuine to be a forgery. My guess is he wrote it on request from a student willing to pay him a goodly fee for a waltz that must be short and not difficult but full as possible of drama and temperament. (He may well have taught it as he included fingerings). He may have converted the 8ths to 16ths to prevent the student from dragging the tempo at these spots.
That's not the easiest 3/4 to keep the count on. I'm going to need a few 🍺 to figure out how to dance to that one. That was very thoughtful of him actually. That Chopin is an alright guy, thinking of us malted beverage connoisseurs.
Something interesting I noticed at 14:04 is if you look at the RH the chromatic descent is inverted (E-F-F#-G), which I guess is consistent with this part being the only major-key part of the piece.
Hmm. It is a lovely ditty, does indeed sound very Chopin, and indeed 'original' which makes it even more likely to be Chopin rather than a pastiche No other Waltz or Mazurka by Chopin does quite the same thing and that is a great sign. The only oddity is the the treble-f - 'fff'. Chopin used this dynamic very rarely, and always seemed to take great care that it was earned (in a large structure). But then, perhaps he would have toned down this dynamic had he every got around to publishing this piece. And would Chopin have published this a Waltz? Perhaps this was just a present for a friend, a throwaway little gem as a thank-you?
You're right: Chopin would have never written a fff after some bars of introduction. And the bottom A reminds too much ( and for too long ) of the slow a - minor Waltz, it doesn't make sense to me. It's just a collection of "chopinesque" phrases: a little funny fake.
As always a mistery why an artist has an idea and then decides to not further elaborate. This really screams for a continuation. It's just the first phrase. So unmistakingly Chopin that you would want to go back in time, take the man by the shoulders and shake him and scream: DO MORE! Especially because as opposed to that small Mozart Serenade, its a piece he sketched when he as fully matured as a composer, whereas the Mozart is just... youthful Mozart and therefore nothing special. Just like you said. As with Schubert, when he abandoned an idea and left us with another of his fragments.
Some creative artists make the most of a trickle of ideas. Others have far more ideas than they can ever develop. I've read that Chopin was an improviser-composer.
Interesting thought. Bill Clinton would question what you mean by "modern". Chopin's music is quite modern at times and that is true for the composition.
@@colinjames2469It really is. Just need to know where to look. Every generation thinks music made in the past is better because time has sieved out all the crap and left only the good stuff. In 20 years time people will be complaining that the music made today was so much better, and so the cycle continues.
You're right: it doesn't sound organic, just a bunch of "chopinesque" phrases in line, which don't really fit together. Chopin would too never have written a fff after the introduction. And the bottom A reminds me too much ( and for too long ) of the slow a - minor Waltz. It's a fake.
I think it's a section of a much larger piece. The intro almost feels rushed, it's similar to other pieces intros; however it gets into developing much faster than you would expect. Maybe it was even written to be played in between pieces at a concert but wasn't fully developed.
Perfectly fits today's shortened attention span and UA-cam Shorts Trend.
Chopin once again up to date! What a Legend.
ahahah perfect 🙌🏼
Yes, it fits perfectly ;-)
It's a fake, constructed of a few "chopinesque" phrases. But the fff makes no sense in such a short fragment and the bottom A for so long at the beginning of a ( even longer planned ) piece seems to be too artificial. And it just sounds a little cheap, can't help it.
@@paulmeisel339 interesting theory, its like an unfinished fragment, i could see that being chopin
@@paulmeisel339 Pretty clever fake if it is one. His use of diminished 7ths and chromatic themes is doable, but there is a lot more to it than that. You have to be a talented composer to come up with all the echoes so naturally, and really get into Chopin's head. It's It's a bit raucous here and there, but then so are some of his preludes! However, the writing and manuscript paper would take some serious faking - if there was money to me made I might be more suspicious...
Finally a true "minute" waltz lol
Glad you mentioned mazurkas several times. To me, this feels so much more like many of his mazurkas than his great waltzes.
It does have the tonality of a mazurka.
Agreed but even the Mazurkas are marked by harmonic evolution; whether voicing changes, passing notes in the relative key to comment on two. Love the Mazurkas as they are a gateway for players sincere in wishing to play the more complex and compelling music.
I agree.
Absolutely - I suspect it's actually an 'infinity Mazurka' - very much a Chopin genre: there are a couple of published ones.
"Immediately unrecognisable but instantly recognisable" - that's it in a nutshell. If I had heard this without the context of the tale of a discovered ms, I'd have sworn blind it was Chopin but then have become confused at not knowing which specific piece.
Even if the card had been written in Elton John's handwriting I'd be on the side of Team "That's odd, I am 110% sure it's Chopin"!
(Edit add-on): Incidentally this is my first listen of it. Sir, you have the honour of being the messenger to my ears of this very charming and densely musical New Thing. You do it with just the perfect mix of panache, chat and Loki.
My first thought after listening to the first notes: that is so Chopin.
Thank you so much. Lovely comment!
@@themusicprofessor thank you! I am not a musician, but I love classical music and Chopin's Nocturne no. 9 is one of my favourites.
@@marikothecheetah9342 Do you mean Op.9 No.2 (in Eb major)? That's one of my faves, too.
More than 50y ago, I bought a whole book of Chopin sheet music just because that Nocturne was in it!
Fred
WHAT A FIND !!!! The motifs throughout... completely match his style.
I lay down, listen to Chopin and scratch myself. No wonder I like this channel. I can relate to Loki.
Loki (the dog) is staring directly at us in the beginning!
He was waiting for a treat.
I felt him steal a piece of my soul with that stare.
He was so still I thought he had to be stuffed
Saying "listen to this bit" 😅
Dog Vinheitero 😂
2024 will forever live in my mind as the year Mozart and Chopin finally battled for ultimate supremacy with their new singles.
😂
I was thinking that if someone wrote this in his style, then that guy is worth listening to cos this is almost impossible to deny that it is Chopin's writing.
And I can't explain why.
I think what clinches it is the inevitanility of that c major breakthrough turning on a dime, back into a minor with elegance and conviction: he makes it feel satisfying(!) to be back in the land of tears after the the clouds quickly hide the sun. Man, that's why I stayed away from Chopin most of my life- couldn't handle the tragedy and gloom. Now I can. I've grown up!
The creativity suggests Chopin to me., but it's obviously written by his hand. I have a facsimile of one of his Nocturnes, which looks the same.
@@JoeLinux2000I think, it's a fake. Just a few "chopinesque" Phrases in a row. The bottom A for so long doesn't make musical sense and Chopin would never had written fff in such a short fragment. It's a mediocre fake for UA-camrs...
This work feels like a cousin to the C major Mazurka op. 7 no. 5 (well, it’s also in its relative major!). A very compelling video, Matthew!
Yes Utsyo - it’s structurally related certainly (though op. 7 no. 5 is even more concise and more ostentatiously folky!) And there is also the wonderful late ‘infinite’ mazurka in F minor and a couple of other ‘infinite’ mazurkas which resemble it in form and character.
The development of one simple chromatic fall. Chopin is able to make the most pained screams elegant and the tamest transitions barbaric in their own right, a very personal style. And I love it!
I just wanted to say I've very much enjoyed your videos and consider it a privilege that you are sharing your music education with us music lovers.
@@fiandrhi thank you!
Amazing video. I'm very satisfied in the way you performed the waltz, I agree with your performance. I Indeed think this was composed by Chopin even if at the beginning I was skeptical. I finished the whole waltz, I mean I composed the rest to finish it and performed it on my channel, I also wrote an article analyzing it, but I will make a compositional and harmonic video in the future too cause this is a very fascinating piece!
Thank you, I really appreciate your thoughtful analysis, definitely Chopin!
Great analyse, thank you!
I lack your expert knowledge, but l know Chopin's music extremely well by heart, being a lover for over 30 years. I heard his voice in this piece instantly. If this should prove a forgery, the impostor must be equally amazing, and I want to know him/her.
The introduction reminded me immediately of Chopin's Prelude op.28/14, the whole thing has a sort of slightly demonic, ominous atmosphere (like waltzing with the devil). And yet so classy. I don't know any other composer of Chopin's era who could create such marvellous, ambivalent, even disturbing moods with such grace and elegance. (Maybe some would point out Wagner, but I disagree, Wagner was daring and very expressive in his own right, but I wouldn't describe his music as elegant or graceful!)
"like waltzing with the devil. And yet so classy" - Yes!
Another thing, I'm betting this is the first page of a longer piece that was completed but the other pages are still missing. And your analysis is wonderful. Thank you.
yo new Chopin just dropped
Love it.
Thanks for presenting this new find with some wonderful insights!
Fred
Thanks. I found that a very comprehensive evaluation. Appreciate it, and maybe I can try to play it!
Really good piece, love the Organ point, keep up Chopin!
Great video. I especially appreciate that you just opened with your performance of the piece straight away. :)
I thoroughly enjoyed this--thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and comments on this recently discovered tiny but delectable bit of Chopin! Interesting that the waltz is in A minor since we know--or at least I recall reading as much--that Chopin's own favorite of his Waltzes was the melancholy one in A minor.
Thanks for the analysis. I wonder how it was discovered. Chopin will always be my number one!
I love your analysis on that E”! You are amazing and your videos are extremely educational!🙏🙏❤❤
Thank you so much!
Chopin dropped a single.....such a brilliant statement 😂! I love Your channel
Thank you once again, Professor!
This is an exciting find! More Chopin please!!
Just discovered you a few weeks ago.. Love your teaching!
I knew it was Chopin as soon as I heard it. This is so magical to me, it's as if we're hearing something Chopin wrote from beyond the grave. Him dying at 39 is the greatest tragedy in all of music.
EH? Ever heard (of) Schubert?
Thanks so much for breaking it down like that it really helps us mere mortals. I felt guilty when the new one dropped as I haven't listened to all the existing ones yet 😅 but I certainly will now.
Magnificent video, Matthew, and what a wonderful and beguiling piece!
Thank you Peter!
Saw the news clip of this with Lang Lang debuting it, this is just so cool! In fact, I might give it a go at playing it myself. I reckon the number of people who have played this beautiful gem so far is less than 10,000, maybe even less than 1,000. When else can you say that about Chopin?
It's not Chopin. It's a fake, clickbait and playbait. Some "chopinesque" Phrases thrown on the page, but the bottom A for so long makes no sense. Same with the fff in such a short fragment. And it sounds just a little cheap too.
@@paulmeisel339 no, his posthumous waltzes are all kinda boring, they’re quick gifts for friends, he actually told his sister to burn them but luckily she disobeyed him.
You're right - there's something exciting about that! You can find it on IMSLP (imslp.org/wiki/Waltz_in_A_minor_(Chopin,_Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric)
First up: great performance. Splendid commentary and highlighting the contrast with the recent (classical tropes) early Mozart and also AI versus human genius. Thanks!
wow !
great analysis !
Rich and myriadic in such a minature. Well, work of a master. Looking forward to playing it! Wonderfully presented Matthew!
Thank you Simon.
I have nothing to add to your analysis, you put this beautifully, Professor, thank you! (Ah, I'll say, the waltz is hauntingly beautiful, I can't get enough of it, so there). I wonder what would've been of it had Chopin written a couple of additional episodes to go with the main theme; in the end, I just hope it becomes the runaway hit of 2024, 200 years late for the composer but never too late for us music lovers.
A new Mozart piece just got found. Now a new Chopin piece? Wow, this would be a great year for another Betthoven Symphony
Wow so beautiful.
Releasing an A minor waltz after Kendrick's 'Not Like Us', crazy reference, lil Chopin is clever as hell
great analysis - spot on!
Newly discovered Mozart, and now Chopin! What's next for 2024, newly discovered Bach?
My personal dream would be for someone to miraculously discover the completed Latin Requiem by Max Reger.
He died too early to complete this monster of a work.
@@olly8453 9 new Beethoven symphonies
Fingers crossed
Next is a Mahler flute sonata
I've got my fingers crossed for the rediscovery of Beethoven's sonata for Banjo and Swanee Whistle
Thank you for sharing this, I just heard about this a few days ago. It certainly sounds like his music. No other composure wrote for the piano like him..
Many classical composers dropping new hits nowadays. I love to see it.
I love the piece for sure.
Thanks so much for this! Quite an extraordinary little piece! Very worthwhile discovery. When it comes to Mozart, I agree about the little serenade...but it is worth listening to, I think...especially the second movement and the catchy little finale. Of Mozart's early stuff, there are some pretty precocious works in my opinion: especially vocal efforts like the opera Mitridate, and the oratorio La Betulia liberata, with gripping minor key choruses and the lead given, unusually, to a contralto! I guess the composer's dramatic gift may have developed before his full compositional maturity? Supposedly he liked Betulia so much that it was performed again with some newly composed choruses (now lost!) in Vienna in 1784. Now THOSE I would like to see turn up in somebody's library!
Yes - perhaps I was a little bit harsh about the Mozart. I must give it another listen.
I just about spit out my coffee when I saw the title of this video! Chopin is the peak of the pyramid of my favorite composers, and perhaps the one composer whose music I could not imagine my life without. Thank you for sharing this miniature wonder!
Its beautiful.
This piece has kind of a jazzy quality about it. I can almost hear the brushed snare and cymbals in the background.
That's a first even though I do consider Chopin to be a jazz pianist.
Chopin invented Jazz. Listen to his mazurka in a minor Op 17. Absolutely Jazz.
I love your analysis on that E”! You are amazing and your videos are extremely educational!🙏🙏❤❤
Where can we get a copy of this score?
It’s on IMSLP
I initially thought the dog was fake.
Well… as a pianist/composer myself I played tons of Chopin in my life - enough to “filter out” certain ways of Chopin’s thinking process, certain hand and fingers positions etc. This short “waltz” if this is indeed authentic Chopin’s manuscript, shows few things that show certain inconsistencies when it comes down to his stylistics as a composer/improviser.
This could have been either an attempt for a full composition that never got continued (eventually abandoned and forgotten by the composer) or a short gift scribbled quickly without refining so characteristic to Chopin. There’s another possibility : the following pages have either been lost or still wait to be discovered somewhere…
After playing through the sheet music from this video (stopping the screen) looking throughout the 1-page manuscript photo online, I am almost positive it is Chopin, but either not-refined (Chopin was extremely detailed with virtually everything he has ever written) or refinement and development (especially the left hand) happens in continuation.
Hopefully we’ll find it one day 😊
In the last year we've got new Beatles, Billy Joel, and now Chopin.
Thank you for that analysis! And some nice playing...
GREAT Video / analysis !!! Love your channel ... Only discovered / subbed a few weeks ago .
The professor's rendition is so much better than Lang Lang it's not even funny.
Thank you!
Love this🎉🎉
0:10 Loki: Listening
0:19 Loki: Ah, that's definitely Chopin, I can relax
Wonderful Chopin. Clearly authentic - but I can’t help feeling it’s incomplete. Somewhere, in some dusty library, the whole thing awaits in all its published glory.
There are quite a few published Chopin miniatures of this size.
Loki looks listlessly into the distance, contemplating his own metaphysical angst to the poetic tones of Chopin....
I often wonder what is on a dog's mind; however I don't believe they are complex thinkers.
@@JoeLinux2000 Perhaps he's dreaming of a good treat!
I think that's more likely!😂 @@jaydenfung1
He was looking at his favourite person in the world (my wife, behind the camera - who also had a treat!)
Loki absolutely mesmerised, obviously he likes Chopin ❤️ .
Dogs are not particularly interested in piano music in the same way cats are.
Bruh, we got a new mozart and chopin piece before gta VI 😭😭😭💀💀💀
"The Century Waltz"?
I'll show myself out.
You know my first reaction to hearing this piece was how uncharacteristic it was for Chopin to have written a waltz in this way. Because it sounds more like a mazurka. Which made me question its originality. However, as it moves into a waltz rhythm I do recognize Chopin’s style of writing for a waltz. But your analysis does establish it as an original composition by Chopin.
it sounds like a sketch for an idea that he didn't have time to expand upon. Or maybe someone asked for an autograph and he wrote that on the spot.
Very possible but no dedication.
Yes, we know nothing about the circumstances of its composition - it may well be a little 'infinity mazurka' (he wrote a couple of others) and this one may have been sketched out for a pupil or a fan.
Thank for your standing on AI. It is for people like you, that are to be in the vanguard of artist to protect human kind from the power of computer programmers. Not only in music but in litrature, 2D/3D art, performance and all aspects of human creation. Keep the criticism of AI biting and hurtful to the programmers. You cant hurt an inaminate snd souless computer.
Thank you for this video in particular and your other wonderful videos in general. May I ask where to obtain the music score from?
You can find it on IMSLP
I think it's lovely and very chopinesque. Probably, a fragment or sketch that could have been developed into a much larger piece, but also works as it is.
If it turns out to be a faux discovery, i it is well done. I wonder how this piece ended up in a library-museum in NY
It's more real than a ballot cast for Joe Biden.
It is definitely Chopinesque, and the 1830s was probably the most bold decade with Berlioz, Mendelssohn, Schumann and early Liszt like Malediction, Harmonies Poetiques and Apparitions.
It sounds very Chopin to me, but on Dutch television there was a pianist an Chopin lover that casted doubt on it, and I can't unhear her doubt. Could you see how this maybe could not be Chopin?
I can’t really answer her doubts because I haven’t heard what she said. I would say the main issues are to do with the manuscript which has curious anomalies (like the fff marking which is very unusual for Chopin). I would suggest that these have possibly been added in later, possibly by another person but, whatever they are, in a sense, they contribute to a sense of authenticity because weird palimpsestic things happen to old documents. Besides, a forger is unlikely to create deliberate anomalies like these. Above all, in terms of musical style and character, it seems too typical of him (in a somewhat unexpected way) to be inauthentic. To me it has the ring of truth about it. No one knows for sure but it seems highly likely that it’s the real deal.
Those chromatic falls remind me of Scriabin, especially the "Black Mass" Sonata.
Very good proof!
The triple forte is interesting.
That dog had me scared for my life.
fantastic…NEW MUSIC. I wonder how many other pieces are hidden away somewhere.
Early I see also I heard rumour of a few hidden waltzes and polonaises in private collections chopin did write a waltz in B major its just in a private collection
Very good interpretation, imho
Wonderful piece of music. If it wasn't by Chppin will it become.e less good? Quite a forgery if it is one.
I think it cries out for extension. I'm trying to 'finish' it.
Beautiful tone. Which upright brand is that ?
Yamaha
@@matthewking1873My favorite brand to play
This makes me so happy. I would love it if his ideas had been worked out further but what's there is an instant top work of his for me.
Could one work a little ornamentation and emphasis into it and maybe play it twice or three times, to see how it works as an extended piece in repeated succession? Not sure what tools are available for interpretation that don't change it too much. I might try to play your rendition in a loop and see if any parts compound for me.
Thank you so much for covering this :)
My personal view is that it may be an ‘infinity mazurka’ - he published some of these: you can circle round as many times as you like.
@@matthewking1873 There are elements that feel introductory to me that I might not have for the first repetition, maybe introduce it for the final as a sort of return... I think I'll experiment a bit. The melancholy feels especially strong in this to me, can't help but be touched by it
With so much interest in it, I think certain people may develop it, and there will end up being many different versions. It could even become an element of the International Chopin competition to comp0lete it or improvise on it.
Indeed. Many of his waltzes seem a little bit superficial to me. Nice but nothing special. This one grips you by the throat right away and it makes you wish there was more of it.
wake up babe new chopin just dropped
Bach has been totally silent after this new single. Can't wait for what he will come up this year.
Loki straight off staring like 🤓
There are two oddities here which are uncharacteristic of Chopin. In the manuscript a basic rhythmic error shows up three times, where triplet 8th notes are written as triplet 16ths. It’s impossible to imagine Chopin capable of this, considering the ubiquity of this pattern throughout his waltzes and mazurkas. Also throughout these collections of dances one finds not a single fff marking. Stylistically the waltz’s individual passages seem sufficiently Chopinesque to believe it may be authentic, but the excessive drama and dissonance so early on and in such a miniature seem to protest too much.
But the manuscript looks far too genuine to be a forgery.
My guess is he wrote it on request from a student willing to pay him a goodly fee for a waltz that must be short and not difficult but full as possible of drama and temperament. (He may well have taught it as he included fingerings). He may have converted the 8ths to 16ths to prevent the student from dragging the tempo at these spots.
Yes - also the fff is uncharacteristic. It’s possible these oddities were added by another hand…
That's not the easiest 3/4 to keep the count on. I'm going to need a few 🍺 to figure out how to dance to that one. That was very thoughtful of him actually. That Chopin is an alright guy, thinking of us malted beverage connoisseurs.
Something interesting I noticed at 14:04 is if you look at the RH the chromatic descent is inverted (E-F-F#-G), which I guess is consistent with this part being the only major-key part of the piece.
I was actually waiting for the plot twist at the end: "No, just kidding. It's actually an AI composition. Did I fool you?"
Interesting way of writing triplets. May you find others in Chopin's manuscripts?
Hmm. It is a lovely ditty, does indeed sound very Chopin, and indeed 'original' which makes it even more likely to be Chopin rather than a pastiche No other Waltz or Mazurka by Chopin does quite the same thing and that is a great sign.
The only oddity is the the treble-f - 'fff'. Chopin used this dynamic very rarely, and always seemed to take great care that it was earned (in a large structure). But then, perhaps he would have toned down this dynamic had he every got around to publishing this piece. And would Chopin have published this a Waltz? Perhaps this was just a present for a friend, a throwaway little gem as a thank-you?
You're right: Chopin would have never written a fff after some bars of introduction. And the bottom A reminds too much ( and for too long ) of the slow a - minor Waltz, it doesn't make sense to me. It's just a collection of "chopinesque" phrases: a little funny fake.
The fff is odd but probably not inconceivable. It's hardly something any forger would do (since it's so unchopinesque!)
Better version than the LL 🎹
As always a mistery why an artist has an idea and then decides to not further elaborate. This really screams for a continuation. It's just the first phrase. So unmistakingly Chopin that you would want to go back in time, take the man by the shoulders and shake him and scream: DO MORE! Especially because as opposed to that small Mozart Serenade, its a piece he sketched when he as fully matured as a composer, whereas the Mozart is just... youthful Mozart and therefore nothing special. Just like you said.
As with Schubert, when he abandoned an idea and left us with another of his fragments.
Some creative artists make the most of a trickle of ideas. Others have far more ideas than they can ever develop. I've read that Chopin was an improviser-composer.
Dumb question: Will the new Mozart have any impact on Köchel numbers?
I saw someone say that the state of modern music is so sad that long dead composers are trying to save it by releasing new music.
Interesting thought. Bill Clinton would question what you mean by "modern". Chopin's music is quite modern at times and that is true for the composition.
@JoeLinux2000 I'm quite sure what was meant was Gucci Mane and Taylor Swift.
A funny sentiment, but the contemporary music scene is great. You just gotta find the good stuff.
@@roryreviewer6598 very little of it is great, I fear.
@@colinjames2469It really is. Just need to know where to look. Every generation thinks music made in the past is better because time has sieved out all the crap and left only the good stuff. In 20 years time people will be complaining that the music made today was so much better, and so the cycle continues.
0:59 loki 😅
Low-key
This dog is haunted
loki is suspicious
Man I wish this was a forgery. It would mean we have a genius in our midst.
It doesn't sound much like a "valse" more like an etude. You recognize the lion by his claws though.
Mazurka fits best.
You're right: it doesn't sound organic, just a bunch of "chopinesque" phrases in line, which don't really fit together. Chopin would too never have written a fff after the introduction. And the bottom A reminds me too much ( and for too long ) of the slow a - minor Waltz. It's a fake.
Great video! Dog is not impressed though...
Album leaf as a gift?
I think it's a section of a much larger piece. The intro almost feels rushed, it's similar to other pieces intros; however it gets into developing much faster than you would expect. Maybe it was even written to be played in between pieces at a concert but wasn't fully developed.
Other miniatures by Chopin are similarly concise!
@themusicprofessor you definitely know more about Chopin, but that's just how I feel