Ash has most definitely grown as a protagonist. I liked Red a lot though from the manga because I felt the over all story was more mature. Not just Red himself.
@@MoonlightXYZ He started out as a cocky noob who only even managed to get into the Pokemon League because of Luck and Pity from the part of the Gym Leaders, and now he is a Humble but Strong as heck guy that is fighting on equal foot with Champions and even beating them
@Allie All you can definitely say about Red is that he became the Pokemon Champion (could do it with level 5 pokemon or farm rare candies) and some how got a Pikachu and a venusaur, Wortortle, Charizard. This grows up and mature aura is totally something you made up. If you take the games as reflection of Red then he treats Pokemon as objects. He just gets results and cares for nothing.
Ash has grown leaps and bounds since the first season of Pokemon. While I think it it is time for Ash to grow up by 15 years, I think Ash's semi-final season should include a throwdown with Red.
They are both good and bad in their own way!!! Grew up with both of these characters from Gen1... But for me Red does have that "legendary aura" around him. And would love for Pokémon company to keep him legendary.. I agree that's because he is a surprise at the end of G/S.
Honestly Ash is the type of character that annoys me but I admit he has grown over the years but what I like about the Pokémon games is the same reason why I like the Digimon anime... Each Pokémon generation follows a new character like how Digimon follows a new group of characters, it makes the games/anime refreshing instead of following one character for over 20 years
Well i mean there's always his rival and another character than just ash but i can see your problem but making anime consistent by ever changing ash would be painful Ash feels like free jail out card to avoid dilute writing
Well I think, Pokemon is about to become like that, since Liko's main partner is sprigatito it is very unlikely that she returns to the gen 10 anime. I love Ash but I am glad to see the new protagonists take the helm.
I watched the Pokemon Anime from such a young age, & my 1st real experience of Kanto was playing the remake as Leaf Green. My memories of Red were always shaped by the Manga. I thought it was so cool that he had a Poliwhirl before he even got his starter Bulbasaur. I loved that the Gym Leaders played a much larger role & thought Misty, Erika, & Blaine were better characters in the manga. Green was such an awesome character & I loved how cool the battles were. I also read Electric Tale of Pikachu & the Pokemon Anime Novels when I was a young girl. Ash supposedly started his journey in Japan before I was even born, yet he's only now a champion climbing the ranks among the best trainers in the world 25 years later. Red's greatest victories didn't take nearly as long to witness with him becoming Champion of a League Tournament in Chapter 40 & then mysteriously vanishing at the hands of the Elite 4 only to be saved from his ice prison by Giovanni who he had defeated & gained the respect of beforehand. Ash has barely even met Giovanni on the otherhand, with them only meeting in Mewtwo Returns & Best Wishes with their only battle being his Persian defeating Ash's Pikachu.
@7:01 Fun fact: When originally marketing Pokémon Adventures, Nintendo used Ash & Red interchangeably; they were different versions of the same character, not different characters.
@@ohhellwhereami2574gold appears in Pokemon chronicles and a different gold appears in the Zoroark film, Brendan appears in the jirachi, temple of the sea and yhe giratina movie, lucas appears battling brendan in the Giratina movie, Hilbert just like hilda doesn't appear and the rest of the protagonists also don't
Pokemon seems to always cater to the younger audience. I always thought they should've had another anime that follows red and his journeys. Kind of like origins but a whole series. I think it would be one of the best animes of all time.
Yeah they could have the main anime then have origin style specials for the games for the protagonists for the other games. That being said don't know who'd they would pick between the male and female protagonists.
Has anyone ever noticed that Ash’s kanto Pokémon match those of Red’s team in gen 2-7? Ash has Pikachu, Charizard, Snorlax, originally a Lapras, and the pre-evolved forms of Venusaur and Blastoise. Ash’s Pokémon certain did age well
@@yojayuwannacomeouthere8519 Some People still didnt, just look at how many people say Ash should fight Red as the series finale or Something else like this
Yeah that's reds team in HGSS, B2W2, and SM/USUM but in GSC he had a Espeon instead of a Lapras it's why a lot of people want Ash to have a Espeon. Also there seems to be a pattern to Red in the games you play as him in Kanto, face him in Johto, he doesn't appear in Hoenn or Sinnoh, appears in unova, doesn't appear in kalos, appears in alola, doesn't appear in galar, so he could appear in paldea maybe with a partner and 1 or more bio or adopted kids.
@@alitafullarmor5957 Yeah because of the writters that took all of this time to develop the character. You talk like if is the character's fault or something like that lol
Note:I view manga red and game red as different characters The manga designs and story are different enough that I view them as a different canon My thoughts would be: Manga red>ash>game red
@@saritatiwari439 How? Feats wise, red wins. How many legendaries does ash have? Mewtwo alone would solo his team just like how he got folded against the legendary trainer in the champion's league.
@@Delimon007 I'm sorry but Mewtwo of game and manga are different from anime. Ash would defeat them. As for feats, Ash has more feats than Red. There's even a post on reddit.
Anyone who STILL says Ash is worse than Red needs to watch the XY anime. Ash was at his absolute peak there. He was mature, but still had his moments of being in his own head, his was a leader for the first time and instead of being a leader that's the blind leading the blind, he stood up to the task, and was an inspiration to those around him. Clemont was inspired to be a better gym leader because of him, Serena's whole journey started because of him. He propelled the plot forward. Which is what a good protag should do; be proactive not reactive. His speech to Lysandre is easily one of the most epic moments in all the anime; how passionate he was about the fact that it wasn't Lysandre's right to take away people's tomorrow. Because the world isn't perfect, but just because it isn't perfect, doesn't mean there aren't things worth living for in it. His team was also pretty top notch as well. His battling was at an all time high as well. I'm not sure why people were annoyed at the stats released for Journeys; Ash's entire core strategy is speed, power and thinking on his feet. And people still use "Alola doesn't count" as a way to bring him down, when he finally has a win. It's honestly absurd. Ash has grown and changed so much since his time in Kanto. And to ignore that is just honestly....childish.
XY Ash is one of the most uninspired cardboard cutouts in all of anime. It's like they thought what makes a shonen protagonist good is that they are "cool and strong" but ignore what separates them from the rest. Other than his competency and maturity, Ash at his core is nothing more than an average guy who loves battling spouting out one note liners like "wow so cool" and "let's battle". And Ash's character questions me why should I care for him when he STILL doesn't reveal his motives behind his goal. It's one plot point that the writers don't even bother to cover in over 2 decades. I always thought Ash and Red are meant to be different characters that can't be compared other than they're Pokemon protagonists and that's it. But the closest comprable guy we ever got to Ash being a good protagonist is Luffy from One Piece. Both have lofty goals about aiming for the top, both love adventure and love a fight, both have flat character arcs that involve changing others around him. The difference is Ash's character WISHES it was as good as Luffy's. The latter has everything all versions of Ash fail to have. Depth, consistency, and drives the story forward which makes him vital as a protagonist. People have been wishing a new protag for the anime not only because they are tired of Ash's stale character but because if we look at it, the stories would still work anyway if you replace Ash with different characters in each season. It also helps that One Piece has an expanding world that presents more difficult challenges the more you get deeper in the grand line. Pokemon keeps introducing regions but they only offer the same thing. Just the pokemon league system, evil teams, and legendary lore that is only exclusive in a specific region. There's a reason why the games and manga doesn't stick to just one main character. That kind of world is better off serving different protagonists than one.
I know Ash has grown. I wont deny it. Just gen 5 killed the character for me personally and I just never took the time to go back. But I wont deny he has grown since I stopped watching, its just been hard for me to go back.
@@jedidude6358 Luffy is just as much of an annoying twat as Ash is, so I don't get your point about them being different characters, not mention the whole show fucking drags on due to overly drawn out standoffs and garbage filler.
Ash *doesn't* have 10 years "But they said that-" it's *IMPOSSIBLE* • Only from the end of Sun & Moon to the start of Journeys, 9 months canonically passed (Ash's brother was born) •The anime starts on 01/04, not 01/01 •Ash said in Johto that his journey started 2 months ago There's many many other statements of time who proves this. The only plausible explanation for him to still have 10 years would be that the years are longer in the Pokémon universe, but the whole story happening in less than 1 year? Hell nah
I’ve been writing my own version of Red dubbed James Fernandes who loves to challenge the best of the best, yet finds himself thrusted into world ending threats like Cipher Rocket, Eternatus, Master Hand, Tabuu, Galeem and Dharkon.
All I'm saying is Gold/Jimmy would be a better protag at this point. He's canon as shown in journeys along with Typhlosion and his friends. A new story to follow would be good I feel like. Story wise I'd rather see Red beat team rocket, Gold travel through Kanto and Johto, become champion and travel the world. I feel the only reason Ash would be remembered by is his Pokemon and how long he's been the main protagonist. Origins was about 4 episodes and to me was the greatest side story to date.
I think if we are going to replace Ash it should be with Brendan, as the Whole point of the Indigo League Arc is that Ash sucked as a Trainer and got his ass kicked, so making him win the Kanto League would be bad Writing, he should have just won the Johto League and then be replaced by Brendan
I loved the origins story and I would love to see a reboot that more effectively ties in mega evolutions in. I’m not really for the other gimmicks but they can be tied in too I guess
I might unintentionally paraphrase what Mystic said, but for me, I like Red more because he grows wiser and more mature as each continuity goes on. Whereas Ash may keep the knowledge, but still has to mature all over again.
I would say that's why I prefer Ash. As a young adult myself, I've realised that while I do the adulting stuff and keep myself going. I have never 'matured' in the typical sense. Yes, I have a job, pay bills and see to my other responsibilities but I still play games, have the same sense of humour and don't feel a need to change my more 'childish' aspects.
@@jullianmolina8842 no I prefer him because he shows how you can improve yourself without changing fundermental’s of who you are in your heart. You can become a world champion but still be a kid at heart who just wants to meet new Pokemon. Not to mention Ash’s flaws are personality traits, making him relate-able. I’ve played Pokemon games and sent out the wrong mon or forgot a type match up whereas Red’s flaws seem to stem from the writing. I mean, is a guy who’d choose to live atop a mountain away from civilisation, family and just abandoned everything for years really be worth trusting? Had Red not been the gen 1 games protagonist, he wouldn’t be thought of as highly. Evidence by the remaining protagonists. The only one’s who seem to become fan favourites are those with a strong showing in the anime.
You know what I would love to see? Ash wins the world tournament in journeys but he then goes to find Red back in kanto, and they have a battle, but in the end, Red teaches him he still has a lot to learn, and Red will help him out figure that out
Love yourself first and most Believe in yourself Quitters never win and winners never quit Don't give up and never give in Ignore those who try to discourage you Hang on to your dreams Take control of own destiny Take care of yourself Keep moving forward Stand up for yourself Stand tall and be brave Stay strong Act of kindness people
The thing I like with Red is the guy actually ages and grows. And Masters helps flesh him out more along with his apperances in gen 7. Admittedly they killed Ash for me in gen 5 when a guy with THAT much experience lost to a brand new starter who had no experience. It pissed me off, and further events in the gen 5 anime just turned me away more, like him magically forgetting how to catch pokemon AGAIN after being skilled at it for several gens at that point. Red at least has some progression thats consistent, and while he may be arbitrarily reveared by players and even in the game's lore as the end all be all of trainers, it's cause he's remained consistent and grown and aged Same for his manga self. In fact character growth is why I preferred the digimon anime over the pokemon anime. Tai grows, ages, passes the torch on to the next generation, and even becomes a UN ambassador to the digital world. Ash by comparison felt....stale, especially as time as time went on.
Ash is the reason why I prefer the Digimon anime (it's leaps and bounds better when it comes to character development as we've clearly seen Tai grow at the end of his story) and also why I prefer the Pokémon games, manga and the OVAs over the anime as well (to which I personally consider these to have the most consistent development in Pokémon by far as Red also aged up just like Tai and even passed the torch to other protagonist, both in games and manga, more than once)
@@Red.Decimo 1 year late but y'all legit so dumb and do not understand character development. Ash was a cocky loser who got by sheer dumb luck then went on to win the big thing and become a humble guy. Also the reason ash lost also showed how well he developed. At first lost we can see him crying and upset after the loss (rightfully so) but he kept maturing and learned how take that lose better. Also this was to symbolise how one can take defeat and again not shiting in tai but y'all really don't understand character development. Also ash only lost to snivy cuz of Zekrom remember he took ash Pikachu's powers also what passing of the touch you just battle red like an NPC in the mountain. In the manga i have not caught up but he was honestly a good character so I will let ot off the hook 😭😭😭😭. GTfo with this shit
I have a theory that each Ash with Kanto through Johto being the same Ash are different Ashs from different timelines, but besides that theory I think given my view on what a Pokemon Master is, is to master the ways of the Pokemon, I don't think Ash will ever be replaced because the more stuff and more Pokemon they come out with the long way he has to go in order to achieve his dream.
Hoenn was a direct continuation of the Johto Anime with the Johto League Tournament itself being listed as Season 6 as part of Advanced. Brock's continued involvement in the anime through to Sinnoh's Conclusion connects each of those 4 Generations of Pokemon Anime. As for what Ash still has to do, he hasn't done anything about Team Rocket as an organization in any timeline yet, with his only battle against Giovanni being during the Best Wishes series.
@@bookmew1081 yes I have to elaborate for Johto's final episodes didn't happen in the Kanto/Johto timeline, what we saw was the beginning of the Hoenn timeline, same goes for the last few episodes of Hoenn that leads Ash to go to Sinnoh, and again for the last few episodes of Black and White leading to Ash going to Kalos, that's how it works from my point of view at least.
Ash is basically the co mascot of the franchise he and Pikachu are a packaged deal If pikachu is the Mickey Mouse of the franchise then ash is the Minnie not in the weird way Can’t have one without the other
pre-video, I'd say that Red is the better protagonist because of how much less he has to offer. Unlike Ash red has: Completed his goal (which Ash wont do), Defetated Team Rocket (which Ash wont do), in some universes completed the Pokedex (it's complete in Ash universe), and in my opinion the Manga Version of Red feel's more relatible and more enjoyable as an older person. and to wrap it all up, Ash keep's "resetting" as a character and his pokemon (technically he didin't reset, but he feel's like he does). Ash however, is going to be 10 year-old forever, and will foreve keep going on a journey. This mean's he will never reach his peak, we will never see what his future will be, we wont reach his final journey. And because Ash will alway's keep "resseting", growing, rinse and repeat - his story last so long and get's so complicated it drives me away. The Manga and Games does what the anime wont do - move their main character aside for new stories.
Just for extra info, red in the normal/ash connected timeline, red is still a child 11, 12 or 13 butttttt….. in the mega timeline (sun and moon), he ages
the battles against Red at Mt. Silver and the PWT are post-game, while the battle in Alola is at the Battle Tree. All of those battles are post-game optional areas, so i don't consider those loses as canon since the player can technically lose those battles. Red stopped Team Rocket, became the Kanto Champion, trained at Mt. Silver and is one of the most powerful trainers in the games as he was in the PWT. Red has a stronger bond with his Pokemon than Ash since he doesn't replace his team during his journey (not counting the Gen 2 Espeon team and the Let's Go team). Ash is famous for not evolving his pokemon and his movesets are pretty bad. He has more battle-ready pokemon than Red and has traveled through more regions than Red. defeating Red on Mt. Silver gets you the Legend Ribbon, giving you the title "The Living Legend". meanwhile trainers who defeat Ash don't get special titles. Red is the more powerful trainer of the two.
Red is the champion of kanto, he stopped team rocket, and caught several kantonian legendary pokemon Ash fought in numerous leagues, won 2 and being the runner up in the kalos league. He also has 3 legendary pokemon (melmetal, naganadel, and nebby) I think ash is in a spot where he could have gone up against red, and have a neck on neck fight with him. He beat cynthia, and imo cynthia's team is more well built than red's
I think by definition the answer is Ash. Your not asking which is the best character but which is the best protagonist. As in which character gives the better experience of pokemon through their eyes. I love Red and would even say I'm more biased towards him than Ash but Red you only play as through Kanto games where as Ash has been to each region as they are released. This means overall Ash gives a more complete experience of pokemon as a franchise than Red. If you only experienced pokemon through Ash in the anime then you wuld have a pretty solid understanding of pokemon as a whole even without playing the games. If you only experienced pokemon through Red and the games you play as him or the chapters in the manga and origins you would have a lot more gaps in what you know. Even if we extend the question to anything Red ventures in like sun/moon and gold/silver that's still a lot of gaps.
Ash should be almost the same age as Sun and Moon Red, Ash not aging up makes no sense whatsoever no matter what or how you defend this dumb argument. Manga Red literally aged up to 15 years old, and it is a Manga for 7-10 year olds that is literally the same age limit as the anime guys like come on now. Pokémon is meant for kids but they sure love aging up other versions of Red besides Ash. It is completely stupid. I mean Video Game Red is much older as you can tell in Sun and Moon, I can probably estimate that he is 25 years old he look like a 25 year old or someone that just hit their prime.
Personally I gotta go with ash here. He is an icon and even with his flaws, there r still a lot of positives about him that come full force in Sinnoh, Kalos, Alola and Journeys
Both are great and both have things that could be done to make me like them more like in other floating timelines they have future episodes by time travel, dream ect. Showing a grown up ash and his friends would be great they could just hanging out talking about their lives or doing some kinda tournament it would be great. Also for ash show his dad because after ash awakens his aura ability he most likely got his abilities from his dad because Delia doesn't have any like they could say he is a aura guardian and lied to Delia to keep them safe and his starter is squrtile that is why ash wanted it to follow in his dad footsteps and seeing a mega blastoiste doing a huge aura sphere would be cool and they could say ash dad lucario is the father of ash lucario that is why it called to ash it recognise the aura could also see ash dad with togekiss to fly around on and his other Pokemon would know aura sphere as well. 1 or both of those happening would defiantly be awesome I see ash meeting his dad before they do a future episodes. Red grows up which is great but what would make him better is getting 1 or more Pokemon from the region he travels he only has pikachu, snorlax, charizard, blastoise, venasure and lapras or espeon. So you play as red in kanto, face him in johto, he doesn't appear in hoenn and sinnoh, appears in unova, doesn't appear in kalos, appears in alola and doesn't appear in galar so he might appear in paldea maybe with a partner and 1 or more bio or adopted kid that would be great.
From old marketing material, & an old interview with Satoshi Tajiri, Ash & Red were the same character. As such, comparing them is kind of like comparing the book & movie versions of Captain Nemo. Interesting, but pointless if you make it a competition.
I preferred ash back in the early seasons. He was a savage. Misty: bugs are 1 of the 3 most disgusting things in the world! Ash: aside from you, what are the other disgusting things? Baseball fangirl: what about all the great hitters on the electabuzz team? Ash: those aren't hitters. I've seen better swings on a playground
Of course Red, in the manga, is like Ash. Satoshi wanted the anime to tell the story that the manga follows, but it ended up being too mature for the main demographic at the time. So he was forced to create a different protagonist, but loosely based some of his personality and beginnings on Red. In a sense Ash is just a "good enough" replacement to Satoshi's original dream.
Red is not like ash, Black was more like ash but smarter since Black made it an actual point to research what he needed to do years in advance. Red was a big fish in a small pond who went on his journey after being humbled by mew and green then realizing how little he actually knew about the world so began traveling to discover the world and true strength for himself. Winning the Pokémon league wasn’t his goal it was a literal footnote to his self discovery.
I'm inclined to answer Red because the games feel more appealing to me than the anime. But no. Red isn't an untouchable god. Yeah, Red is ablank slate. But truth is... The silent protagonist is a common trope in videogames for a simple reason: Gaming requires mote interaction from the consumer. As the avatar, Red's actions ultimately resonates with us because the player is making his(er) choices. And those are Red's choices as well.
in a pokemon battle red would win but if we are talking about the better protaganist it depends ash is a better protaganist then game red but ash and manga red are both good protaganists in a real pokemon battle winner red in looking who is a better protaganist anime vs games winner ash in looking who is a better protaganist anime vs manga tie
Those Ash haters actually made me question if I should still like him. I can't say I grew up watching since I didn't think this series was still going until I saw some of the Black and White and XYZ anime and realized I missed out on a lot, but catching up on most of it, I really enjoyed it until I saw some bad reviews on Ash as a character. I'm glad he finally won the Alola League cuz I can stop listening to the haters and enjoy the anime like I use to.
Inflation devalues money and makes prices go up, and worst of all people in higher paying positions make less. So stopping inflation stop the rest both from happening.
Red is only the champion of the Kanto region, and Satoshi is the Champion of all the pokemon regions, thanks to the episode that aired just yesterday, and Satoshi beats Dande, and became the new world champion. Ash never catches them all, because that is a misconception when 4kids was localizing pokemon, while the Gotta Catch em All phrase was not the real aim of the pokemon anime, in the original Japanese version, it all started with the original Japanese opening, Aim to become a Pokemon Master, and the title literally says to become a Pokemon Master. Ash's true goal is to become the strongest, and best trainer that this world has ever seen, taking good care of his Pokemon, and train them with love and care, and try become stronger with his pokemon.
If we're going by "Ash has more character development but Red is the better trainer" mindset *Then Manga Red (being the perfect balance of the two) makes him objectively the TRUE better protagonist and the REAL legendary trainer in all of Pokémon* While arguably not as iconic as the other two, Manga Red has proven time and time that he has the better feats in both characterization and in Pokémon battling for those who read the manga of Pokémon Adventures (to which, please do, it's underrated as hell) I'd argue that in terms of character development, Manga Red dealt with the most hardships in his journey compared to every single versions of Ash, everything that Ash learned and achieved in 8 Regions is something that the Manga Red did before in less, His journey may not be as long but that just shows that he is able to adapt and learn quickly unlike Ash who unrealistically struggles most of the time. While it is true that Ash recently beated Leon and became a world champion atm but in all honesty, Manga Red would've done the same too (if not better) since he is even recognized as the best battler by people who are also capable of becoming a champion themselves, plus, he relies on actual strategies in a Pokémon duel rather than the power of friendship like with Ash. Manga Red developed greatly within the manga series, chapter after each chapter, he's actually very funny, outgoing, easily likable, very relatable and far more mature when it comes to serious situations. Manga Red is also known to save the world a couple of times too, thanks to the friends he made along the way (in which he did befriended a lot of people aside from other pokémons) from Giovanni's evil plans and as well a the Elite Four, whom their plan was literally to wipe out all of humanity. Thus, Manga Red definitely has the most development here, Ash may be iconic and memorable but he certainly does have a lot of cons as a character, like how Ash seemingly doesn't age up within the whole series (keep in mind that even the Game Canon Red aged up), also Ash doesn't develop much as a character often (and even if he does, it took him very long) to which is why he isn't really universally likable to either the fans and even non-fans and so on. Now about battling skills, where Game Red has the clear advantage over Ash, though I doubt that Game Canon Red (specifically HGSS Red, so far at his strongest) would do much against peak Manga Red, since Manga Red has a much more improved, well trained Pikachu and overall the better team, I could say that Origins Red might be a second good contender to this competition but I do believe he still kinda pales in comparison, he may have the type advantage thanks to his Mega Evolved Charizard to Manga Red's Mega Evolved Venusaur but given his lack of experience, I doubt he'd pull a win that easily. Manga Red managed to beat down Giovanni at his peak at several occasions, who was even using a legendary like Deoxys same with even the likes of Blue Oak (or Green in Japanese) who at the time was considered Red's rival, and his team so far surpassed Game Blue Oak, Gary Oak and Origins Blue Oak's team. This whole debate, looking at the character developments and great achievements as a Pokémon Trainer is pretty much *Manga Red's entire portfolio* , one might be better than the other in terms of one thing whether it's character development or Pokémon battling but when combining all these into one character makes Manga Red, The Pokédex Fighter, the strongest, the best protagonist in all of Pokémon.
Character X vs Character Y comparison (in this case ash vs red) is the main reason why the "fans" is killing the (insert a franchise name) (in this case pokemon).
I still think they should've left Ash at the end of Johto and started each new region with the playable characters as proper protagonists for each region and then have older characters as cameos Or have them show up in news in the background or have the previous trainers you play as in finale battles like Red was in Gold and Silver
Origins Red is just a Dude who only uses his Starter and all his other Pokemon Suck while Red is only a Edgelord, who now is 30 years old and peaked at 11 Manga Red is a Badass tho
Red team is Pikachu, Lapras, Snorlax, Charizard, Blastoise and Venasoar in HGSS, B2W2 and SM/USUM and in GSC he had a Espeon in Lapras place and knowing that he is aging and could get married and have bio or adopted kids that could show up is so cool and the regions he hasn't been to is Hoenn, Sinnoh, Kalos and Galar. So it's you play as red in Kanto, face him in Johto then doesn't appear in Hoenn or Sinnoh, appears in unova, doesn't appear in kalos, appears in alola and doesn't appear in galar maybe he will be in paldea possibly with a partner and 1 or more kids which would be cool. Ash on the other hand has a lot of Pokemon and great story with traveling to every region and his aura powers but is stuck as a 10 year old which would be fine if like other shows that are fixed in a certain time they have future episodes by time travel or a dream or something else like they could easily have Ash run into a psychic that reads his future and we see it play out and repeat it every series also since Ash awaken his aura ability and Delia doesn't have any psychic ability he most likely got it from his dad and he is a aura user most likely a aura guardian if they don't want to retcon Delia just thinking he is a pokemon trainer on a journey they could say that he lied to Delia to keep them safe and I would love if all his pokemon has the move aura sphere like Squirtle is his starter and it's the one ash wanted as his starter to follow in his dad's footsteps and it would be sweet seeing mega Blastoise make a huge aura sphere and they can even have Ash's Lucario be the baby from his dad Lucario that is why riolu egg called to Ash and I can see ash dad with a togekiss to fly around on and the other spots on his team could be filled by other pokemon that use arua sphere.
You Uploaded This On The 6th Anniversary, When I Finally Got To Proposed To My Asian Soulmate (Maya-Minnie-Chu) In New Orleans, Louisiana; Where I Grew Up At.
Writing wise no. Although you gotta feel bad for Ash because the show he is in is written by people who don't care about making a good story with well written characters. If Red were in his position, I bet he'll end up having the same treatment as Ash because that's what the Pokemon anime is. A long running marketing vehicle for the games with no care for quality.
And red from the manga is better in both categories. He’s a strong trainer an accomplished protagonist and a dutiful senior for the next generation. red in the games is a plank of wood designed to reflect the player but not itself. while ash is an ageless child who doesn’t grow he changes for whatever the Pokémon company NEEDS him to be be it a newbie, a joke, a badass, an illusion of an accomplished protagonist. Whatever they need ash to be they will make him it as if he was Malleable play dough.
I agree with you like how? this dude sucks though with his videos he made an underrated one and brought in one on characters mainly from gen one made an overrated characters and didn't even put the biggest overrated person Cynthia.
Yeah I agee they take compare 400 hours of Ash's screentime with specifically origins red who got 90 minutes of screentime to make ash look superior ......lol
Honestly ash just has always plot armor so the show is less fun because its predictable: Challenged to battle? NO PROBLEM they win. Also they always get the rare shit Yea I know in the games we also get that but in the games you put the effort, in the show you just expect everything and you turn out right.
The writing is charming and unique and one of a kind Ash is treated like a chosen one a lot more in newer seasons tho like with ash greninja and his lucario
Objectively speaking, Ash is more well travelled. He has far more Pokémon to call upon then Red does. Granted Red is a strong trainer with some great Mons, but GameFreak never bothered to diversify his roster during his reappearances in Gen 5 and Gen 7 beyond the the Let’s Go games, which was such a shame. Hopefully if they bring Red back again, they do give him some new Pokémon to work with, because the diversity of options Ash has does give him quite an advantage.
Ash is supposed to be the anime version of Red. Ash is actually the anime version of multiple protagonist, taking a lot of inspiration from their clothing.
I dont think that he counts as the anime version of the other Protagonists, the other male ones do exist in the Anime, Gold got his own Special and even got to Battle Ash in a Cameo during the Zoroark movie, and Brendan and Lucas got a Cameo in some of the movies
Ill say this about your video.... you pointed out this stuff for ash. Yet never mention how red Single handedly took down team rocket, fought giovonni, sabrina, and blane who were members of team rocket, solve the mystery of the ghost pokemon tower, caught his region 151 pokemon, manage to fill his pokedex, was able to beat his rival, and most of all was able to give gold a good fight. Red feats in his game even tho short has a huge last appeal vs how long it took ash to win an official pokemon league. Winning a pokemon league is like showing how the knowledge, strategies, and bond you made are put to the test against others. Losing each time just makes it feel like ash either gets his badges out of pity or sympathy vs actual challenges, or how he will choose an element that is easily weaker than his opponent and then somehow plot lets him win. Ash has some feats but reds tend to outshine cause he was truly the one who beat giovonni one of the strongest gangs in pokemon universe. To the point that Rainbow Rocket is describe to have taken over all of kanto perfectly unchallenged meaning that in his universe red was either soundly defeated or killed for challenging his group, and if the manga is anything to say Team Rocket are the most evil and dangerous group showing to harm both humans and pokemon just to put more money in the pocket. :3
Bro stop using manga as reference you are embarrassing yourself , red is definitely prodigy in his own regards but ash also had enough power to outclass Giovanni pokemon maybe both giovanni aren't same power level but still is impressive , ash also had power to win league if he wasn't exhausted during his match with ritchie and more pokemon seen than red one thing that makes ash better is able to use anime logic on his side, being bulba using whirlwind, pikachu affecting ground type and such but he did win orange islands tho without much training like that have been local championship but still is feat pulled by same age as red He does have impressive going on tho like clearing battle frontier which is elite Four level in difficulty and almost winning every league after kanto, let's not count unova because fck it Ash also has adaptability to have his new pokemon reach potential close to even his previously strongest poke despite the training, inventing mega like form by his sheer bond being able to use all three gimmick, z move, mega and dynamax all at same
@@ohhellwhereami2574Bro go tell DBZ community goku cant solo others animes then come back to me with ur fucked up logic and no i wont get the fuck out if u dont like it.
@@loomingdeath1758 already told it multiple times and faced against gokutards in debate as well be it in verse our out verse but manga isn't canon you're not getting anything from it not even enough to trigger me just as you got for some reason 🤔
@@loomingdeath1758 also what is my flawed logic? Didn't even say both giovanni are at same power level or that red doesn't have access to different set of rules to battles not counting his manga version? Or that ash could have won his first league?
I'm watching this after having seen what I presume is the newest Pokemon anime-canon movie, "The Arceus Chronicles". Ash and Goh are Pokemon researchers, who went back to Sinnoh to research things. There, they run into Cynthia, Dawn, and Brock. And the phrase/sentiment of Ash having "adventured with X for a long time" is stated in regards to both Dawn and Brock. Team Galactic, the evil team from Sinnoh, was not only arrested but RELEASED. They served the full-on jail-time criminal sentence for literal terrorism performed with the equivalent of nuclear weapons. And that was at least three Pokemon League Challenges ago for Ash. Ash, even by anime logic, cannot be literally 10 years old still. ----- Which also brings up that...Yes the anime and the games have differing logics. But, Ash is relatively inventive in how he overcomes challenges, even if there should be easier ways to reach the same end.
I've nothing more to say about this, other than good work with your analysis. This topic is kind of divisive among fans. Better to not stoke any flames on here.
I think Sinnoh Ash is tied or more closer to Post-Kanto Red. Hear me out. In the Sinnoh League, Tobias beats the Runner-up with just Darkrai while Ash was the only one confirmed to beat it. Meaning if it weren't for Tobias, Ash would've won the Sinnoh League maybe even beat Cynthia. And Sinnoh Ash was no joke. With just one spin he learned from Dawn that was used to dodge attacks was upgraded to a defensive and offensive move (Counter-Shield). Also throughout DP, one by one the Elite Four pop out and has some episodes helping the gang. Bertha literally rekts Ash just to show him the power of observation. And it will be very fitting seeing a rematch between Flint.
I mean, if we're talking about the game version of Red, then I guess Ash is better. However, if we're talking about the manga version of Red... Ash doesn't hold a candle.
And we can’t really test what I think people really mean when they say this which one would win in a Pokémon battle. Ashes Pikachu just doesn’t exist in the games I’m pretty sure to have it he would need a partner Pikachu with perfect EVs IVs and holding three items
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 Red's mewtwo and three legendary bird trio + Charizard X will easily wipe the entire team of both Leon and Ash lol. facts hurts.🤣🤣🤡
Honestly I say Red is the better protagonist whether it's the games,manga,or even anime-wise bc one simple reason:Each version of Red is able to grow as a character,no matter how small, and not be reduced to making mistakes or asking questions that He shouldn't be making as a Veteran trainer. Sure Ash is a Champion now but that's after more than 20 years of setbacks,character regression,and Pokémon Leaders not giving a damn🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️
Ngl both trainers give respect to there Pokémon but red is just I see I catch it there might be something going on or something that Pokémon really cares about but red doesn’t really acknowledge that
Look,I don’t like Ash because,well,he’s cheesy as hell.What we should’ve gotten a Ash that grows up every gen,and than in the finale series’s a battle against Red🤩 Also who else thinks a pokespe anime would be awesome as hell?😅
Just for curiosity: Why do you use Ash as a Profile Picture then? Yeah a Pokespe anime would be cool but only if it was released right now and it had no filler, i wouldnt trade the Main Anime with Ash today for a Pokespe one for many reasons
I wouldn't mind filler scenes to flesh out the episodes as that is better than the alternative of skipping stuff to fit the Episode Length Requirements. Pokespe has been waiting longer than Jojo & it would be exciting to see Pokespe get adapted into anime soon. Also nobody said it would be replacing the main series as Pokemon has had side animation projects in the past.
Gameverse Red is honestly pretty boring and flat outside of Pokemon Masters which writes his characteristics much more endearingly. I think Red is a perfect poster child for the franchise for the reasons you explained in this video. But a good protagonist? As in...Writing-Wise? Hell no. Not even close. I think Red's manga counterpart fits both categories perfectly while Ash is pretty inconsistent as the anime's sales lamb.
I personally like Ash more than Red and think he's better due to me feeling like Red is the expectation of what a great Pokemon trainer is and Ash is the reality. No, it's not gonna take you a week max to become one of the strongest trainers around. It's gonna take time, effort and constant improvement to be the best. Red feels like he needs that interpretation and contant reminder of his legend status because without it, he blends in with the other protagonists. With Ash, we see his struggles, his growth, his failures, his friendships and that constant improvement to where he is today, beating Champions and being the 2nd best in the world. I can't say who would truly win a battle. I lean to read but I dpn't think it's as cut and dry as many think but in the question of the better protagonist, character and general icon, I'll always go for the boy who woke up late and ran barefoot to get a yellow rat in his pjs.
Red: strong, emotionless , cold, trained product Ash: natural talent, strong sense of justice, mastery of everything about Pokemon They are two sides of the same coin.
Ash has certainly had better character development than Red especially with his 20 years journey. Although Red is the legend of Kanto who defeated Team Rocket and became the Champion of Kanto.
MU:- so who is better protagonist...??.... Wanna know 😎 Me:- yes yes.... Tell me 😁😁 MU:- it depends on you who you like😏 Me after watching the whole video:-💀💀💀so what is this video about ☠️☠️
@@JohnSmithsu2006 I dont think this counts as him existing there it was just a nod to that Clefairy Manga and not a actual physical appearence Also, we do have a version of Red that does exist in the anime: Ash lol
Yes, he save the world several times he left kanto became a world champion. Alola champion Orange island champion won several other contests turned Gary good oh, and it’s not even close
Ash is like the Shonen protag of the Pokémon anime but the writers don't give him special treatment like giving him actual Legendaries. And no I am not counting Nebby because Ash didn't caught, not counting Naganadel and Melmetal because they aren't Legendaries technically.
Ash is better protogonist he is kinder , values relationship and he is showing as try again and again even after lossing. , And it's funny and happy anima while red could be to serious
The only movie that ever called him an actual chosen one isn't even a Real thing because that was a 4kids addition that wasn't in the original dialogue. In it, there's not even a proper prophecy itself there's no chosen one and its said that any trainer would have work. So no, he wasn't a chosen one and that was something that they tries to add to XY&Z at the last minutes with questionable quality
Yo! Highly emotional 90 kid here that's played pokemon all his youth.... NO 1 knew that was RED! we all THOUGHT IT WAS ASH! Even look at the choose name part. There are more names than Red, and Ash is 1! Especially in the 90s no internet and you had pokemon the anime an movies why wouldnt you think it is not Ash? COMMUNITY HELP plz!!! How did this Red lore start ?
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Ash Close to Shonen character.
Ash has most definitely grown as a protagonist. I liked Red a lot though from the manga because I felt the over all story was more mature. Not just Red himself.
Grown?
@@MoonlightXYZ He started out as a cocky noob who only even managed to get into the Pokemon League because of Luck and Pity from the part of the Gym Leaders, and now he is a Humble but Strong as heck guy that is fighting on equal foot with Champions and even beating them
But for the games you can't say that because I believe the manga contradicts the games so you can't use the manga as canon.
@Allie All you can definitely say about Red is that he became the Pokemon Champion (could do it with level 5 pokemon or farm rare candies) and some how got a Pikachu and a venusaur, Wortortle, Charizard. This grows up and mature aura is totally something you made up. If you take the games as reflection of Red then he treats Pokemon as objects. He just gets results and cares for nothing.
I'll be back when the comment section gets spicy
For better or worse UA-cam has the greatest comment section of any medium
Smart choice
come back
Red -> the silent solo gamer
Ash -> the go outside caring guy
Ash has grown leaps and bounds since the first season of Pokemon. While I think it it is time for Ash to grow up by 15 years, I think Ash's semi-final season should include a throwdown with Red.
They are both good and bad in their own way!!! Grew up with both of these characters from Gen1... But for me Red does have that "legendary aura" around him. And would love for Pokémon company to keep him legendary.. I agree that's because he is a surprise at the end of G/S.
Honestly Ash is the type of character that annoys me but I admit he has grown over the years but what I like about the Pokémon games is the same reason why I like the Digimon anime...
Each Pokémon generation follows a new character like how Digimon follows a new group of characters, it makes the games/anime refreshing instead of following one character for over 20 years
Well i mean there's always his rival and another character than just ash but i can see your problem but making anime consistent by ever changing ash would be painful
Ash feels like free jail out card to avoid dilute writing
Well I think, Pokemon is about to become like that, since Liko's main partner is sprigatito it is very unlikely that she returns to the gen 10 anime.
I love Ash but I am glad to see the new protagonists take the helm.
I watched the Pokemon Anime from such a young age, & my 1st real experience of Kanto was playing the remake as Leaf Green. My memories of Red were always shaped by the Manga. I thought it was so cool that he had a Poliwhirl before he even got his starter Bulbasaur. I loved that the Gym Leaders played a much larger role & thought Misty, Erika, & Blaine were better characters in the manga. Green was such an awesome character & I loved how cool the battles were. I also read Electric Tale of Pikachu & the Pokemon Anime Novels when I was a young girl.
Ash supposedly started his journey in Japan before I was even born, yet he's only now a champion climbing the ranks among the best trainers in the world 25 years later. Red's greatest victories didn't take nearly as long to witness with him becoming Champion of a League Tournament in Chapter 40 & then mysteriously vanishing at the hands of the Elite 4 only to be saved from his ice prison by Giovanni who he had defeated & gained the respect of beforehand. Ash has barely even met Giovanni on the otherhand, with them only meeting in Mewtwo Returns & Best Wishes with their only battle being his Persian defeating Ash's Pikachu.
@7:01 Fun fact: When originally marketing Pokémon Adventures, Nintendo used Ash & Red interchangeably; they were different versions of the same character, not different characters.
Imo ash is supposed to be a role that can portray all protagonist in anime since he explores all region
@@ohhellwhereami2574gold appears in Pokemon chronicles and a different gold appears in the Zoroark film, Brendan appears in the jirachi, temple of the sea and yhe giratina movie, lucas appears battling brendan in the Giratina movie, Hilbert just like hilda doesn't appear and the rest of the protagonists also don't
@@Sybry605 they are just cameo aside from ethan but that's suspicious of viability
Pokemon seems to always cater to the younger audience. I always thought they should've had another anime that follows red and his journeys. Kind of like origins but a whole series. I think it would be one of the best animes of all time.
Yeah they could have the main anime then have origin style specials for the games for the protagonists for the other games. That being said don't know who'd they would pick between the male and female protagonists.
Origins tho I like it is overhyped by a lot of fans
@@MrX-uu8viwe don't see that about manga
@@ohhellwhereami2574 manga is different
@@MrX-uu8vi i feel like for what length origins anime had it was better at manga doing things
Has anyone ever noticed that Ash’s kanto Pokémon match those of Red’s team in gen 2-7? Ash has Pikachu, Charizard, Snorlax, originally a Lapras, and the pre-evolved forms of Venusaur and Blastoise. Ash’s Pokémon certain did age well
Also his Pikachu knows volt tackle, thunderbolt, quick attack and iron tail in hgss...which is exactly Ash's pikachu's diamond and pearl moveset
Yeah because they are Counterparts
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 I thought we all knew this,I was like 7 when I noticed playing thru gsc
@@yojayuwannacomeouthere8519 Some People still didnt, just look at how many people say Ash should fight Red as the series finale or Something else like this
Yeah that's reds team in HGSS, B2W2, and SM/USUM but in GSC he had a Espeon instead of a Lapras it's why a lot of people want Ash to have a Espeon. Also there seems to be a pattern to Red in the games you play as him in Kanto, face him in Johto, he doesn't appear in Hoenn or Sinnoh, appears in unova, doesn't appear in kalos, appears in alola, doesn't appear in galar, so he could appear in paldea maybe with a partner and 1 or more bio or adopted kids.
Seeing the comment section is awesome to see that some people stopped hating on Ash, especially after these most recent years of Pokémon 😊
Nope, Ash still sucks even more so actually than a few years ago...
@@alitafullarmor5957 Good Joke kid, it would have make sense if was 15 years ago.
He's currently the world champion in the end of Pokemon lol
@@renansantos6533 Yeah, and it only took him 1,200 episodes to do it.
Red could have done it in under 500...
@@alitafullarmor5957 Yeah because of the writters that took all of this time to develop the character.
You talk like if is the character's fault or something like that lol
Note:I view manga red and game red as different characters
The manga designs and story are different enough that I view them as a different canon
My thoughts would be:
Manga red>ash>game red
I'm sorry but I think Ash is stronger than Manga Red.
@@saritatiwari439he doesn't mean power, this is whole segment is character comparison bruh
@@saritatiwari439
How? Feats wise, red wins. How many legendaries does ash have? Mewtwo alone would solo his team just like how he got folded against the legendary trainer in the champion's league.
@@Delimon007 I'm sorry but Mewtwo of game and manga are different from anime. Ash would defeat them. As for feats, Ash has more feats than Red. There's even a post on reddit.
Anyone who STILL says Ash is worse than Red needs to watch the XY anime. Ash was at his absolute peak there. He was mature, but still had his moments of being in his own head, his was a leader for the first time and instead of being a leader that's the blind leading the blind, he stood up to the task, and was an inspiration to those around him. Clemont was inspired to be a better gym leader because of him, Serena's whole journey started because of him. He propelled the plot forward. Which is what a good protag should do; be proactive not reactive.
His speech to Lysandre is easily one of the most epic moments in all the anime; how passionate he was about the fact that it wasn't Lysandre's right to take away people's tomorrow. Because the world isn't perfect, but just because it isn't perfect, doesn't mean there aren't things worth living for in it. His team was also pretty top notch as well. His battling was at an all time high as well. I'm not sure why people were annoyed at the stats released for Journeys; Ash's entire core strategy is speed, power and thinking on his feet. And people still use "Alola doesn't count" as a way to bring him down, when he finally has a win. It's honestly absurd. Ash has grown and changed so much since his time in Kanto. And to ignore that is just honestly....childish.
XY Ash is one of the most uninspired cardboard cutouts in all of anime. It's like they thought what makes a shonen protagonist good is that they are "cool and strong" but ignore what separates them from the rest. Other than his competency and maturity, Ash at his core is nothing more than an average guy who loves battling spouting out one note liners like "wow so cool" and "let's battle". And Ash's character questions me why should I care for him when he STILL doesn't reveal his motives behind his goal. It's one plot point that the writers don't even bother to cover in over 2 decades.
I always thought Ash and Red are meant to be different characters that can't be compared other than they're Pokemon protagonists and that's it. But the closest comprable guy we ever got to Ash being a good protagonist is Luffy from One Piece. Both have lofty goals about aiming for the top, both love adventure and love a fight, both have flat character arcs that involve changing others around him. The difference is Ash's character WISHES it was as good as Luffy's. The latter has everything all versions of Ash fail to have. Depth, consistency, and drives the story forward which makes him vital as a protagonist. People have been wishing a new protag for the anime not only because they are tired of Ash's stale character but because if we look at it, the stories would still work anyway if you replace Ash with different characters in each season.
It also helps that One Piece has an expanding world that presents more difficult challenges the more you get deeper in the grand line. Pokemon keeps introducing regions but they only offer the same thing. Just the pokemon league system, evil teams, and legendary lore that is only exclusive in a specific region. There's a reason why the games and manga doesn't stick to just one main character. That kind of world is better off serving different protagonists than one.
Better start on DP is when we see how much he change and how even Ash beat a Legendary.
I know Ash has grown. I wont deny it. Just gen 5 killed the character for me personally and I just never took the time to go back. But I wont deny he has grown since I stopped watching, its just been hard for me to go back.
@@jedidude6358 Luffy is just as much of an annoying twat as Ash is, so I don't get your point about them being different characters, not mention the whole show fucking drags on due to overly drawn out standoffs and garbage filler.
@@gaaraofthedesert801 Nah his character just keeps taking steps back since BW. He matured in kalos but then turned into a childish buffoon in Alola.
Red ended with 4 legendary's in just 2 hrs. runtime
Ash ended with 0 legendary's in a whooping 20 yrs. runtime lol.
ash has an infinite age to catch up lmao Red gonna die
@@bxsherwin18 nice joke XD.
Ash *doesn't* have 10 years
"But they said that-" it's *IMPOSSIBLE*
• Only from the end of Sun & Moon to the start of Journeys, 9 months canonically passed (Ash's brother was born)
•The anime starts on 01/04, not 01/01
•Ash said in Johto that his journey started 2 months ago
There's many many other statements of time who proves this. The only plausible explanation for him to still have 10 years would be that the years are longer in the Pokémon universe, but the whole story happening in less than 1 year? Hell nah
I’ve been writing my own version of Red dubbed James Fernandes who loves to challenge the best of the best, yet finds himself thrusted into world ending threats like Cipher Rocket, Eternatus, Master Hand, Tabuu, Galeem and Dharkon.
All I'm saying is Gold/Jimmy would be a better protag at this point. He's canon as shown in journeys along with Typhlosion and his friends. A new story to follow would be good I feel like. Story wise I'd rather see Red beat team rocket, Gold travel through Kanto and Johto, become champion and travel the world. I feel the only reason Ash would be remembered by is his Pokemon and how long he's been the main protagonist. Origins was about 4 episodes and to me was the greatest side story to date.
I think if we are going to replace Ash it should be with Brendan, as the Whole point of the Indigo League Arc is that Ash sucked as a Trainer and got his ass kicked, so making him win the Kanto League would be bad Writing, he should have just won the Johto League and then be replaced by Brendan
Jimmy? Don’t you mean Ethan?
@@crazydog4626 In the Anime he is called Jimmy
Also Ethan is the Stupidest name ever cant the comunity just call him Gold
I loved the origins story and I would love to see a reboot that more effectively ties in mega evolutions in. I’m not really for the other gimmicks but they can be tied in too I guess
@@crazydog4626 he's Gold. Let him be Gold.
I wish Journeys ended with Ash facing off against Red in a climatic showdown.
Yea
And don't forget reuniting his real biological father Silver form chronicles and Giovanni gets arrested!
I thinks his dad is ded
@@datrebbleclef600 What are you talking about with dad?
@@datrebbleclef600 In a non-canon episode, it is revealed that Ash's dad is alive and actually has a good relationship with him
I wonder who would win a battle. Ash using his current team or Red with his usual team of Pikachu, the 3 starters, Snorlax and Lapras?
I might unintentionally paraphrase what Mystic said, but for me, I like Red more because he grows wiser and more mature as each continuity goes on. Whereas Ash may keep the knowledge, but still has to mature all over again.
I would say that's why I prefer Ash. As a young adult myself, I've realised that while I do the adulting stuff and keep myself going. I have never 'matured' in the typical sense. Yes, I have a job, pay bills and see to my other responsibilities but I still play games, have the same sense of humour and don't feel a need to change my more 'childish' aspects.
@@pun-inator6075 you prefer ash because he’s dumb and is a child? 🤦♂️
@@jullianmolina8842 no I prefer him because he shows how you can improve yourself without changing fundermental’s of who you are in your heart. You can become a world champion but still be a kid at heart who just wants to meet new Pokemon.
Not to mention Ash’s flaws are personality traits, making him relate-able. I’ve played Pokemon games and sent out the wrong mon or forgot a type match up whereas Red’s flaws seem to stem from the writing. I mean, is a guy who’d choose to live atop a mountain away from civilisation, family and just abandoned everything for years really be worth trusting? Had Red not been the gen 1 games protagonist, he wouldn’t be thought of as highly. Evidence by the remaining protagonists. The only one’s who seem to become fan favourites are those with a strong showing in the anime.
You know what I would love to see? Ash wins the world tournament in journeys but he then goes to find Red back in kanto, and they have a battle, but in the end, Red teaches him he still has a lot to learn, and Red will help him out figure that out
Yup red absolutely folds ash
@@Dude-dk5jg red would make him regret not leveling his Pokémon to be more than just one off movesets
@@Its-Ternaki well so you mean all pokemon evolved due having pity on ash? Damn that's sad
@@ohhellwhereami2574 yea. He doesn't really do as many battles that he would need to properly level his pokemon
That would break the timeline more then Mimikyu's room in sun and moon
Love yourself first and most
Believe in yourself
Quitters never win and winners never quit
Don't give up and never give in
Ignore those who try to discourage you
Hang on to your dreams
Take control of own destiny
Take care of yourself
Keep moving forward
Stand up for yourself
Stand tall and be brave
Stay strong
Act of kindness people
The thing I like with Red is the guy actually ages and grows. And Masters helps flesh him out more along with his apperances in gen 7. Admittedly they killed Ash for me in gen 5 when a guy with THAT much experience lost to a brand new starter who had no experience. It pissed me off, and further events in the gen 5 anime just turned me away more, like him magically forgetting how to catch pokemon AGAIN after being skilled at it for several gens at that point. Red at least has some progression thats consistent, and while he may be arbitrarily reveared by players and even in the game's lore as the end all be all of trainers, it's cause he's remained consistent and grown and aged
Same for his manga self.
In fact character growth is why I preferred the digimon anime over the pokemon anime. Tai grows, ages, passes the torch on to the next generation, and even becomes a UN ambassador to the digital world. Ash by comparison felt....stale, especially as time as time went on.
Until Ash came back for Pokémon Masters EX.
Ash after gen 4 is pretty generic boring kid is like on happy pills all the time
Ash is the reason why I prefer the Digimon anime (it's leaps and bounds better when it comes to character development as we've clearly seen Tai grow at the end of his story) and also why I prefer the Pokémon games, manga and the OVAs over the anime as well (to which I personally consider these to have the most consistent development in Pokémon by far as Red also aged up just like Tai and even passed the torch to other protagonist, both in games and manga, more than once)
@@Red.Decimo 1 year late but y'all legit so dumb and do not understand character development. Ash was a cocky loser who got by sheer dumb luck then went on to win the big thing and become a humble guy. Also the reason ash lost also showed how well he developed. At first lost we can see him crying and upset after the loss (rightfully so) but he kept maturing and learned how take that lose better. Also this was to symbolise how one can take defeat and again not shiting in tai but y'all really don't understand character development. Also ash only lost to snivy cuz of Zekrom remember he took ash Pikachu's powers also what passing of the touch you just battle red like an NPC in the mountain. In the manga i have not caught up but he was honestly a good character so I will let ot off the hook 😭😭😭😭. GTfo with this shit
@@Red.Decimoyou don't gott be toxic in reply section, chill
I have a theory that each Ash with Kanto through Johto being the same Ash are different Ashs from different timelines, but besides that theory I think given my view on what a Pokemon Master is, is to master the ways of the Pokemon, I don't think Ash will ever be replaced because the more stuff and more Pokemon they come out with the long way he has to go in order to achieve his dream.
Hoenn was a direct continuation of the Johto Anime with the Johto League Tournament itself being listed as Season 6 as part of Advanced. Brock's continued involvement in the anime through to Sinnoh's Conclusion connects each of those 4 Generations of Pokemon Anime. As for what Ash still has to do, he hasn't done anything about Team Rocket as an organization in any timeline yet, with his only battle against Giovanni being during the Best Wishes series.
@@bookmew1081 yes I have to elaborate for Johto's final episodes didn't happen in the Kanto/Johto timeline, what we saw was the beginning of the Hoenn timeline, same goes for the last few episodes of Hoenn that leads Ash to go to Sinnoh, and again for the last few episodes of Black and White leading to Ash going to Kalos, that's how it works from my point of view at least.
It's all the same ash in the mainline anime tv series.
Though my headcanon is that ash after dp is a different person
Ash is basically the co mascot of the franchise he and Pikachu are a packaged deal
If pikachu is the Mickey Mouse of the franchise then ash is the Minnie
not in the weird way
Can’t have one without the other
Package deal " Nah 💀
pre-video, I'd say that Red is the better protagonist because of how much less he has to offer.
Unlike Ash red has: Completed his goal (which Ash wont do), Defetated Team Rocket (which Ash wont do), in some universes completed the Pokedex (it's complete in Ash universe), and in my opinion the Manga Version of Red feel's more relatible and more enjoyable as an older person. and to wrap it all up, Ash keep's "resetting" as a character and his pokemon (technically he didin't reset, but he feel's like he does).
Ash however, is going to be 10 year-old forever, and will foreve keep going on a journey. This mean's he will never reach his peak, we will never see what his future will be, we wont reach his final journey. And because Ash will alway's keep "resseting", growing, rinse and repeat - his story last so long and get's so complicated it drives me away.
The Manga and Games does what the anime wont do - move their main character aside for new stories.
Yeah very true
have you not watched the anime... like, at all?
@@iamjayrts25 i have. But if you have a problem, feel free to prove me wrong.
@@iamjayrts25 I Have, Ash stopped Changing as a character in Gen 4
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 that’s… not right
Just for extra info, red in the normal/ash connected timeline, red is still a child 11, 12 or 13 butttttt….. in the mega timeline (sun and moon), he ages
the battles against Red at Mt. Silver and the PWT are post-game, while the battle in Alola is at the Battle Tree. All of those battles are post-game optional areas, so i don't consider those loses as canon since the player can technically lose those battles.
Red stopped Team Rocket, became the Kanto Champion, trained at Mt. Silver and is one of the most powerful trainers in the games as he was in the PWT. Red has a stronger bond with his Pokemon than Ash since he doesn't replace his team during his journey (not counting the Gen 2 Espeon team and the Let's Go team).
Ash is famous for not evolving his pokemon and his movesets are pretty bad. He has more battle-ready pokemon than Red and has traveled through more regions than Red.
defeating Red on Mt. Silver gets you the Legend Ribbon, giving you the title "The Living Legend". meanwhile trainers who defeat Ash don't get special titles.
Red is the more powerful trainer of the two.
No matter when you do it defeating red is canon.
Well that's in game not in anime lol
Red is the champion of kanto, he stopped team rocket, and caught several kantonian legendary pokemon
Ash fought in numerous leagues, won 2 and being the runner up in the kalos league. He also has 3 legendary pokemon (melmetal, naganadel, and nebby)
I think ash is in a spot where he could have gone up against red, and have a neck on neck fight with him. He beat cynthia, and imo cynthia's team is more well built than red's
@@wavestrider2160 Red's Mewtwo will just sweep both Cynthia and Ash team lol.
@@xyi898lol nop
Red is better, games and manga
I think by definition the answer is Ash.
Your not asking which is the best character but which is the best protagonist. As in which character gives the better experience of pokemon through their eyes.
I love Red and would even say I'm more biased towards him than Ash but Red you only play as through Kanto games where as Ash has been to each region as they are released. This means overall Ash gives a more complete experience of pokemon as a franchise than Red.
If you only experienced pokemon through Ash in the anime then you wuld have a pretty solid understanding of pokemon as a whole even without playing the games.
If you only experienced pokemon through Red and the games you play as him or the chapters in the manga and origins you would have a lot more gaps in what you know. Even if we extend the question to anything Red ventures in like sun/moon and gold/silver that's still a lot of gaps.
Ash should be almost the same age as Sun and Moon Red, Ash not aging up makes no sense whatsoever no matter what or how you defend this dumb argument.
Manga Red literally aged up to 15 years old, and it is a Manga for 7-10 year olds that is literally the same age limit as the anime guys like come on now.
Pokémon is meant for kids but they sure love aging up other versions of Red besides Ash. It is completely stupid.
I mean Video Game Red is much older as you can tell in Sun and Moon, I can probably estimate that he is 25 years old he look like a 25 year old or someone that just hit their prime.
Personally I gotta go with ash here. He is an icon and even with his flaws, there r still a lot of positives about him that come full force in Sinnoh, Kalos, Alola and Journeys
Both are great and both have things that could be done to make me like them more like in other floating timelines they have future episodes by time travel, dream ect. Showing a grown up ash and his friends would be great they could just hanging out talking about their lives or doing some kinda tournament it would be great. Also for ash show his dad because after ash awakens his aura ability he most likely got his abilities from his dad because Delia doesn't have any like they could say he is a aura guardian and lied to Delia to keep them safe and his starter is squrtile that is why ash wanted it to follow in his dad footsteps and seeing a mega blastoiste doing a huge aura sphere would be cool and they could say ash dad lucario is the father of ash lucario that is why it called to ash it recognise the aura could also see ash dad with togekiss to fly around on and his other Pokemon would know aura sphere as well. 1 or both of those happening would defiantly be awesome I see ash meeting his dad before they do a future episodes. Red grows up which is great but what would make him better is getting 1 or more Pokemon from the region he travels he only has pikachu, snorlax, charizard, blastoise, venasure and lapras or espeon. So you play as red in kanto, face him in johto, he doesn't appear in hoenn and sinnoh, appears in unova, doesn't appear in kalos, appears in alola and doesn't appear in galar so he might appear in paldea maybe with a partner and 1 or more bio or adopted kid that would be great.
How many people thought red was ash for many years of their childhood. Good ol fire red days
I did when I first played Yellow
I like ash netter as a protagonist, its just that red is my fav trainer and i think red is by far stronger than ash
From old marketing material, & an old interview with Satoshi Tajiri, Ash & Red were the same character. As such, comparing them is kind of like comparing the book & movie versions of Captain Nemo. Interesting, but pointless if you make it a competition.
I preferred ash back in the early seasons. He was a savage.
Misty: bugs are 1 of the 3 most disgusting things in the world!
Ash: aside from you, what are the other disgusting things?
Baseball fangirl: what about all the great hitters on the electabuzz team?
Ash: those aren't hitters. I've seen better swings on a playground
Of course Red, in the manga, is like Ash. Satoshi wanted the anime to tell the story that the manga follows, but it ended up being too mature for the main demographic at the time. So he was forced to create a different protagonist, but loosely based some of his personality and beginnings on Red. In a sense Ash is just a "good enough" replacement to Satoshi's original dream.
Red is not like ash, Black was more like ash but smarter since Black made it an actual point to research what he needed to do years in advance.
Red was a big fish in a small pond who went on his journey after being humbled by mew and green then realizing how little he actually knew about the world so began traveling to discover the world and true strength for himself. Winning the Pokémon league wasn’t his goal it was a literal footnote to his self discovery.
I'm inclined to answer Red because the games feel more appealing to me than the anime. But no. Red isn't an untouchable god.
Yeah, Red is ablank slate. But truth is... The silent protagonist is a common trope in videogames for a simple reason: Gaming requires mote interaction from the consumer. As the avatar, Red's actions ultimately resonates with us because the player is making his(er) choices. And those are Red's choices as well.
I feel what makes red stand out is his appearance having silent personality all together
in a pokemon battle red would win but if we are talking about the better protaganist it depends ash is a better protaganist then game red but ash and manga red are both good protaganists
in a real pokemon battle winner red
in looking who is a better protaganist anime vs games winner ash
in looking who is a better protaganist anime vs manga tie
I grew up watching ash, I just can't stand people hating on him😔
Don't worry Ash is being more loved now especially after these recent Pokémon seasons, the public opinion of him improved tremendously 😀
Lol
Me too
Those Ash haters actually made me question if I should still like him. I can't say I grew up watching since I didn't think this series was still going until I saw some of the Black and White and XYZ anime and realized I missed out on a lot, but catching up on most of it, I really enjoyed it until I saw some bad reviews on Ash as a character. I'm glad he finally won the Alola League cuz I can stop listening to the haters and enjoy the anime like I use to.
Nobody hating on ash but let’s all be honest tho red has like almost every Pokémon in the Kanto region
Hopefully, we get a best team no restrictions series completion with Pokémon RBY, HGSS, B2W2, USUM and the Let's Go games.
No need to comment this on every video
@@Jack-gs4fi Gonna do it until the video drops so we can show the power of the comment section.
Inflation devalues money and makes prices go up, and worst of all people in higher paying positions make less. So stopping inflation stop the rest both from happening.
Actually I like Red and Ash equally, I can see Red training Ash for him to improve more
That would take assumptions that red is older i would like neutral take on age gap where they both share their speciality with each other
I think it goes: Manga Red > Ash > Game Red/Origins Red.
Red is only the champion of the Kanto region, and Satoshi is the Champion of all the pokemon regions, thanks to the episode that aired just yesterday, and Satoshi beats Dande, and became the new world champion. Ash never catches them all, because that is a misconception when 4kids was localizing pokemon, while the Gotta Catch em All phrase was not the real aim of the pokemon anime, in the original Japanese version, it all started with the original Japanese opening, Aim to become a Pokemon Master, and the title literally says to become a Pokemon Master. Ash's true goal is to become the strongest, and best trainer that this world has ever seen, taking good care of his Pokemon, and train them with love and care, and try become stronger with his pokemon.
Facts, and also in the series with red. When blue went to fight the elite four theynjust say “attack” like how is that skill.
If we're going by "Ash has more character development but Red is the better trainer" mindset
*Then Manga Red (being the perfect balance of the two) makes him objectively the TRUE better protagonist and the REAL legendary trainer in all of Pokémon*
While arguably not as iconic as the other two, Manga Red has proven time and time that he has the better feats in both characterization and in Pokémon battling for those who read the manga of Pokémon Adventures (to which, please do, it's underrated as hell)
I'd argue that in terms of character development, Manga Red dealt with the most hardships in his journey compared to every single versions of Ash, everything that Ash learned and achieved in 8 Regions is something that the Manga Red did before in less, His journey may not be as long but that just shows that he is able to adapt and learn quickly unlike Ash who unrealistically struggles most of the time. While it is true that Ash recently beated Leon and became a world champion atm but in all honesty, Manga Red would've done the same too (if not better) since he is even recognized as the best battler by people who are also capable of becoming a champion themselves, plus, he relies on actual strategies in a Pokémon duel rather than the power of friendship like with Ash. Manga Red developed greatly within the manga series, chapter after each chapter, he's actually very funny, outgoing, easily likable, very relatable and far more mature when it comes to serious situations. Manga Red is also known to save the world a couple of times too, thanks to the friends he made along the way (in which he did befriended a lot of people aside from other pokémons) from Giovanni's evil plans and as well a the Elite Four, whom their plan was literally to wipe out all of humanity.
Thus, Manga Red definitely has the most development here, Ash may be iconic and memorable but he certainly does have a lot of cons as a character, like how Ash seemingly doesn't age up within the whole series (keep in mind that even the Game Canon Red aged up), also Ash doesn't develop much as a character often (and even if he does, it took him very long) to which is why he isn't really universally likable to either the fans and even non-fans and so on.
Now about battling skills, where Game Red has the clear advantage over Ash, though I doubt that Game Canon Red (specifically HGSS Red, so far at his strongest) would do much against peak Manga Red, since Manga Red has a much more improved, well trained Pikachu and overall the better team, I could say that Origins Red might be a second good contender to this competition but I do believe he still kinda pales in comparison, he may have the type advantage thanks to his Mega Evolved Charizard to Manga Red's Mega Evolved Venusaur but given his lack of experience, I doubt he'd pull a win that easily. Manga Red managed to beat down Giovanni at his peak at several occasions, who was even using a legendary like Deoxys same with even the likes of Blue Oak (or Green in Japanese) who at the time was considered Red's rival, and his team so far surpassed Game Blue Oak, Gary Oak and Origins Blue Oak's team.
This whole debate, looking at the character developments and great achievements as a Pokémon Trainer is pretty much *Manga Red's entire portfolio* , one might be better than the other in terms of one thing whether it's character development or Pokémon battling but when combining all these into one character makes Manga Red, The Pokédex Fighter, the strongest, the best protagonist in all of Pokémon.
True
Character X vs Character Y comparison (in this case ash vs red) is the main reason why the "fans" is killing the (insert a franchise name) (in this case pokemon).
I still think they should've left Ash at the end of Johto and started each new region with the playable characters as proper protagonists for each region and then have older characters as cameos
Or have them show up in news in the background or have the previous trainers you play as in finale battles like Red was in Gold and Silver
Manga, red orgins and red the player which you face him in mt.sliver are the cool characters.
Origins Red is just a Dude who only uses his Starter and all his other Pokemon Suck while Red is only a Edgelord, who now is 30 years old and peaked at 11
Manga Red is a Badass tho
Red team is Pikachu, Lapras, Snorlax, Charizard, Blastoise and Venasoar in HGSS, B2W2 and SM/USUM and in GSC he had a Espeon in Lapras place and knowing that he is aging and could get married and have bio or adopted kids that could show up is so cool and the regions he hasn't been to is Hoenn, Sinnoh, Kalos and Galar. So it's you play as red in Kanto, face him in Johto then doesn't appear in Hoenn or Sinnoh, appears in unova, doesn't appear in kalos, appears in alola and doesn't appear in galar maybe he will be in paldea possibly with a partner and 1 or more kids which would be cool. Ash on the other hand has a lot of Pokemon and great story with traveling to every region and his aura powers but is stuck as a 10 year old which would be fine if like other shows that are fixed in a certain time they have future episodes by time travel or a dream or something else like they could easily have Ash run into a psychic that reads his future and we see it play out and repeat it every series also since Ash awaken his aura ability and Delia doesn't have any psychic ability he most likely got it from his dad and he is a aura user most likely a aura guardian if they don't want to retcon Delia just thinking he is a pokemon trainer on a journey they could say that he lied to Delia to keep them safe and I would love if all his pokemon has the move aura sphere like Squirtle is his starter and it's the one ash wanted as his starter to follow in his dad's footsteps and it would be sweet seeing mega Blastoise make a huge aura sphere and they can even have Ash's Lucario be the baby from his dad Lucario that is why riolu egg called to Ash and I can see ash dad with a togekiss to fly around on and the other spots on his team could be filled by other pokemon that use arua sphere.
You Uploaded This On The 6th Anniversary, When I Finally Got To Proposed To My Asian Soulmate (Maya-Minnie-Chu) In New Orleans, Louisiana; Where I Grew Up At.
Ash is the new world champ
Unova is underrated very misunderstood imo
Also the showrunner of the anime has explained recently why ash doesn’t age
Writing wise no. Although you gotta feel bad for Ash because the show he is in is written by people who don't care about making a good story with well written characters. If Red were in his position, I bet he'll end up having the same treatment as Ash because that's what the Pokemon anime is. A long running marketing vehicle for the games with no care for quality.
I think Ash is the better Protagonist in the Character growing arc while Red is better in the competitive battling.
And red from the manga is better in both categories. He’s a strong trainer an accomplished protagonist and a dutiful senior for the next generation.
red in the games is a plank of wood designed to reflect the player but not itself. while ash is an ageless child who doesn’t grow he changes for whatever the Pokémon company NEEDS him to be be it a newbie, a joke, a badass, an illusion of an accomplished protagonist. Whatever they need ash to be they will make him it as if he was Malleable play dough.
Ash is the best trainer like no trainers ever was for me, he is the strongest trainer now he definately defeated Chynthia can't wait Ash vs Leon.😎
Trying to comparing a character who rarely appears against another character who is still around for 25-26 years... i'm done for...
I agree with you like how? this dude sucks though with his videos he made an underrated one and brought in one on characters mainly from gen one made an overrated characters and didn't even put the biggest overrated person Cynthia.
@@Charlotte226 i couldn't agree more.
Yeah I agee they take compare 400 hours of Ash's screentime with specifically origins red who got 90 minutes of screentime to make ash look superior ......lol
Honestly ash just has always plot armor so the show is less fun because its predictable: Challenged to battle? NO PROBLEM they win. Also they always get the rare shit
Yea I know in the games we also get that but in the games you put the effort, in the show you just expect everything and you turn out right.
Mf ash loses most of the time.
Dude has anti plot armour
Outside of alola league and masters 8
The writing is charming and unique and one of a kind
Ash is treated like a chosen one a lot more in newer seasons tho like with ash greninja and his lucario
That is fact red is us in game and manga is whole different the story
Yeah in the Games he is just a Blank Slate so we can Project into the story
Objectively speaking, Ash is more well travelled. He has far more Pokémon to call upon then Red does. Granted Red is a strong trainer with some great Mons, but GameFreak never bothered to diversify his roster during his reappearances in Gen 5 and Gen 7 beyond the the Let’s Go games, which was such a shame. Hopefully if they bring Red back again, they do give him some new Pokémon to work with, because the diversity of options Ash has does give him quite an advantage.
Ash is supposed to be the anime version of Red. Ash is actually the anime version of multiple protagonist, taking a lot of inspiration from their clothing.
I dont think that he counts as the anime version of the other Protagonists, the other male ones do exist in the Anime, Gold got his own Special and even got to Battle Ash in a Cameo during the Zoroark movie, and Brendan and Lucas got a Cameo in some of the movies
Well Hilbert Nate, Calem Elio and Victor have not made cameos like the old Gen protagonists.
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 bro gold appears in Pokemon movie darkari and ash defeat gold and ash won
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 in intro scene when ash pickhachu fighting gold Pokemon pls check this scene
Ill say this about your video.... you pointed out this stuff for ash. Yet never mention how red Single handedly took down team rocket, fought giovonni, sabrina, and blane who were members of team rocket, solve the mystery of the ghost pokemon tower, caught his region 151 pokemon, manage to fill his pokedex, was able to beat his rival, and most of all was able to give gold a good fight. Red feats in his game even tho short has a huge last appeal vs how long it took ash to win an official pokemon league. Winning a pokemon league is like showing how the knowledge, strategies, and bond you made are put to the test against others. Losing each time just makes it feel like ash either gets his badges out of pity or sympathy vs actual challenges, or how he will choose an element that is easily weaker than his opponent and then somehow plot lets him win. Ash has some feats but reds tend to outshine cause he was truly the one who beat giovonni one of the strongest gangs in pokemon universe. To the point that Rainbow Rocket is describe to have taken over all of kanto perfectly unchallenged meaning that in his universe red was either soundly defeated or killed for challenging his group, and if the manga is anything to say Team Rocket are the most evil and dangerous group showing to harm both humans and pokemon just to put more money in the pocket. :3
Bro stop using manga as reference you are embarrassing yourself , red is definitely prodigy in his own regards but ash also had enough power to outclass Giovanni pokemon maybe both giovanni aren't same power level but still is impressive , ash also had power to win league if he wasn't exhausted during his match with ritchie and more pokemon seen than red one thing that makes ash better is able to use anime logic on his side, being bulba using whirlwind, pikachu affecting ground type and such but he did win orange islands tho without much training like that have been local championship but still is feat pulled by same age as red
He does have impressive going on tho like clearing battle frontier which is elite Four level in difficulty and almost winning every league after kanto, let's not count unova because fck it
Ash also has adaptability to have his new pokemon reach potential close to even his previously strongest poke despite the training, inventing mega like form by his sheer bond being able to use all three gimmick, z move, mega and dynamax all at same
@@ohhellwhereami2574Bro go tell DBZ community goku cant solo others animes then come back to me with ur fucked up logic and no i wont get the fuck out if u dont like it.
@@loomingdeath1758 already told it multiple times and faced against gokutards in debate as well be it in verse our out verse but manga isn't canon you're not getting anything from it not even enough to trigger me just as you got for some reason 🤔
@@loomingdeath1758 also what is my flawed logic? Didn't even say both giovanni are at same power level or that red doesn't have access to different set of rules to battles not counting his manga version?
Or that ash could have won his first league?
@@ohhellwhereami2574see this is what im talking about right here u can tell when an idiot is born
I'm watching this after having seen what I presume is the newest Pokemon anime-canon movie, "The Arceus Chronicles".
Ash and Goh are Pokemon researchers, who went back to Sinnoh to research things. There, they run into Cynthia, Dawn, and Brock. And the phrase/sentiment of Ash having "adventured with X for a long time" is stated in regards to both Dawn and Brock.
Team Galactic, the evil team from Sinnoh, was not only arrested but RELEASED. They served the full-on jail-time criminal sentence for literal terrorism performed with the equivalent of nuclear weapons. And that was at least three Pokemon League Challenges ago for Ash.
Ash, even by anime logic, cannot be literally 10 years old still.
-----
Which also brings up that...Yes the anime and the games have differing logics. But, Ash is relatively inventive in how he overcomes challenges, even if there should be easier ways to reach the same end.
I've nothing more to say about this, other than good work with your analysis. This topic is kind of divisive among fans. Better to not stoke any flames on here.
I think Sinnoh Ash is tied or more closer to Post-Kanto Red. Hear me out. In the Sinnoh League, Tobias beats the Runner-up with just Darkrai while Ash was the only one confirmed to beat it. Meaning if it weren't for Tobias, Ash would've won the Sinnoh League maybe even beat Cynthia. And Sinnoh Ash was no joke. With just one spin he learned from Dawn that was used to dodge attacks was upgraded to a defensive and offensive move (Counter-Shield). Also throughout DP, one by one the Elite Four pop out and has some episodes helping the gang. Bertha literally rekts Ash just to show him the power of observation. And it will be very fitting seeing a rematch between Flint.
And then Black and white has to ruin everything
I have to say Ash. Especially when all of the times he has risked his life, and died, for his Pokemon are taken into account.
I mean, if we're talking about the game version of Red, then I guess Ash is better. However, if we're talking about the manga version of Red... Ash doesn't hold a candle.
Just gonna be honest
I will SAY it hmmm oh boy! Kinda scared and hyped at same time uff..
*MANGA* *RED* *FEELS* *LIKE* *PROTOTYPE* *OF* *ASH*
And we can’t really test what I think people really mean when they say this which one would win in a Pokémon battle. Ashes Pikachu just doesn’t exist in the games I’m pretty sure to have it he would need a partner Pikachu with perfect EVs IVs and holding three items
Ash is The Better Protagonist, Red is The Better Trainer. End of Discussion
Idk about the first statement, but the second one may be debunked if Ash beats Leon and becomes the Strongest Trainer in the World
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 if Ash Beats Leon Red is Still Better Lol. If Red Was In That Tournament He’d Win
@@00drpepper58 Leon would kick his ass lol
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 Debatable Lol
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 Red's mewtwo and three legendary bird trio + Charizard X will easily wipe the entire team of both Leon and Ash lol. facts hurts.🤣🤣🤡
it just comes down to Jotaro (Red) vs Goku (Ash).
Honestly I say Red is the better protagonist whether it's the games,manga,or even anime-wise bc one simple reason:Each version of Red is able to grow as a character,no matter how small, and not be reduced to making mistakes or asking questions that He shouldn't be making as a Veteran trainer. Sure Ash is a Champion now but that's after more than 20 years of setbacks,character regression,and Pokémon Leaders not giving a damn🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️
But Ash is a Version of Red
Also, Game Red and Origins Red dont really grow
Ash WAS growing until BW happened
Hell even his age before BW was vague he grew a bit taller too...
@@JohnSmithsu2006Facts😭😭
The reason why I love Red's series more than the original series cuz the story is pretty straight forward.
Ngl both trainers give respect to there Pokémon but red is just I see I catch it there might be something going on or something that Pokémon really cares about but red doesn’t really acknowledge that
Look,I don’t like Ash because,well,he’s cheesy as hell.What we should’ve gotten a Ash that grows up every gen,and than in the finale series’s a battle against Red🤩 Also who else thinks a pokespe anime would be awesome as hell?😅
Just for curiosity: Why do you use Ash as a Profile Picture then?
Yeah a Pokespe anime would be cool but only if it was released right now and it had no filler, i wouldnt trade the Main Anime with Ash today for a Pokespe one for many reasons
When I was like 9 I wanted a Pokémon profile and I just left it up to mom to decide😅
I wouldn't mind filler scenes to flesh out the episodes as that is better than the alternative of skipping stuff to fit the Episode Length Requirements. Pokespe has been waiting longer than Jojo & it would be exciting to see Pokespe get adapted into anime soon. Also nobody said it would be replacing the main series as Pokemon has had side animation projects in the past.
Oddly enough you have the worst version of ash as your pfp...
Don't disrespect my gen 1-4 boy...
Gameverse Red is honestly pretty boring and flat outside of Pokemon Masters which writes his characteristics much more endearingly.
I think Red is a perfect poster child for the franchise for the reasons you explained in this video.
But a good protagonist? As in...Writing-Wise? Hell no. Not even close.
I think Red's manga counterpart fits both categories perfectly while Ash is pretty inconsistent as the anime's sales lamb.
I'd argue the first 4 generations ash was consistent
I personally like Ash more than Red and think he's better due to me feeling like Red is the expectation of what a great Pokemon trainer is and Ash is the reality. No, it's not gonna take you a week max to become one of the strongest trainers around. It's gonna take time, effort and constant improvement to be the best. Red feels like he needs that interpretation and contant reminder of his legend status because without it, he blends in with the other protagonists. With Ash, we see his struggles, his growth, his failures, his friendships and that constant improvement to where he is today, beating Champions and being the 2nd best in the world. I can't say who would truly win a battle. I lean to read but I dpn't think it's as cut and dry as many think but in the question of the better protagonist, character and general icon, I'll always go for the boy who woke up late and ran barefoot to get a yellow rat in his pjs.
Red: strong, emotionless , cold, trained product
Ash: natural talent, strong sense of justice, mastery of everything about Pokemon
They are two sides of the same coin.
Ash
Stubborn,hardheaded,ŕëtårđeđ,whiney,dense,brave
Ash has certainly had better character development than Red especially with his 20 years journey. Although Red is the legend of Kanto who defeated Team Rocket and became the Champion of Kanto.
**Reads title**
LoLoLoLoLoLoLoL…no
MU:- so who is better protagonist...??.... Wanna know 😎
Me:- yes yes.... Tell me 😁😁
MU:- it depends on you who you like😏
Me after watching the whole video:-💀💀💀so what is this video about ☠️☠️
Just imagine how cool it would be if Red appeared in the Anime!
But he already appeared, he is in literaly every single episode
Red or atleast a version of red does exist in the anime as a character from a movie that ash and gary watched
@@JohnSmithsu2006 I dont think this counts as him existing there it was just a nod to that Clefairy Manga and not a actual physical appearence
Also, we do have a version of Red that does exist in the anime: Ash lol
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 fair enough.
I do count ash as the anime version of him tbh
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 ash and red or both not the same though they have become different characters.
Yes, he save the world several times he left kanto became a world champion. Alola champion Orange island champion won several other contests turned Gary good oh, and it’s not even close
2:19 is where the add ends
They are technically the same person named Satoshi in both the game and the anime.
Wait his name isn't satoshi
Like aren't they all color
Ash is the better character and Red is the better trainer.
bro sun and moon,gen 2 games red is a npc.NPC are supposed to lose.IF he was a player he would be impossible to beat.npc don't train there pokemon
16:25 Who is that Jack protagonist supposed to be?
Another name for red in another country
Ash is like the Shonen protag of the Pokémon anime but the writers don't give him special treatment like giving him actual Legendaries.
And no I am not counting Nebby because Ash didn't caught, not counting Naganadel and Melmetal because they aren't Legendaries technically.
Ash is better protogonist he is kinder , values relationship and he is showing as try again and again even after lossing. , And it's funny and happy anima while red could be to serious
In my opinion red us the better Treanor and ash is a better character although his plot armor is etheir to big or it doesn't exist
4:00 People must have been like "How could this be. That used to be me😦😦" hehe😙😙
Think about how many of Ash's wins in catching and battling were handed to him out of luck or pity. There's a lot.
Thanks you for your video and channel
Love the video and keep up the great work
Ash not a chosen one? so we are ignoring the movies sthen
The only movie that ever called him an actual chosen one isn't even a Real thing because that was a 4kids addition that wasn't in the original dialogue. In it, there's not even a proper prophecy itself there's no chosen one and its said that any trainer would have work. So no, he wasn't a chosen one and that was something that they tries to add to XY&Z at the last minutes with questionable quality
Yo! Highly emotional 90 kid here that's played pokemon all his youth.... NO 1 knew that was RED! we all THOUGHT IT WAS ASH! Even look at the choose name part. There are more names than Red, and Ash is 1! Especially in the 90s no internet and you had pokemon the anime an movies why wouldnt you think it is not Ash? COMMUNITY HELP plz!!! How did this Red lore start ?
Red is for men, Ash is for boys.
It’s that simple.
Biggest lie ever
I think red is better
Red is more of a Chad
30 Year Old Man who peaked at 11
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 tbf, that's the story of my life too
@@funicon3689 agreed the alpha red