@@terryjefferylee6314 1st I don't. I understand that except for pipe organs, no musical source goes below 50hz basically. I also understand that most rooms are too small for the wavelength needed for true bass. So people use subs to add sound pressure. Impact affect. Not actual frequency reproduction. Laws of physics and all. But basically it is more important that each set of drivers has enough power to match the outputs of the others. And with typically different efficiencies for different boxes (full range, sub) matched wattage means nothing. Just so you can reach the same levels based on subjective preferences.
I have a six-channel Sony amplifier in my car that puts our 45w per channel x4, and 90w x2 at 4ohms for woofers. Or if you bridge channel 5 and 6, 350w x1 at 4ohm or 600w x1 at 2ohm. So you're saying that's not so nuts after all! I'm just using a single 100W under seat sub for now but may look to open it up in the future, I too was worried about that being too much and being imbalanced. Thanks.
All you need is 'enough' watts. I'm running 2x200 for mains and 2x250 for passive subs. Plenty loud and the subs keep up no problem. If my mains were 2x70 I'd still want the same subs. 900 watts for a sub? Often those numbers are inflated/peak anyway. One sub I had years ago was advertised as both 225 watts and 55 watts.
I always think atleast twice the power for the subwoofer than the speakers. Headroom and well what Paul said and also it's just better in every way. I have 150w into 8ohms to my floor speakers and my 200w sub does NOT follow at the highest volumes with the most bass heavy songs. It does great 90% of the time but in some cases the DSP just limits the output to not distort and blow it. So my next one will be quite a bit more powerful. Or maybe get two. Or build myself. Not sure yet but it will have a ton of power avaliable instead of "living on the edge"
experience is nice to have on these things, and i am still trying to figure out how subwoofers and watts work together. when i built my own subwoofers i knew the driver, amp and dsp so i could really get into things. i built 10" subwoofers in 18 liter cabinets aiming for 15hz output. all recommendations and was that i needed hundreds of watts. so i tried my two different power amps and had even more powerful amps in my list to buy if needed. and my smallest amp, icepower 100 watts was enough to reach max excursion easily. and the bigger amp provided nothing extra.
@@sudd3660 Max excursion does not mean it gets enough power.. A small amp can easily do that but does not mean it is optimal in any way. A bigger amp has always alot more control and headroom at high volumes.
@@Oystein87 thats why i tried the bigger amp, and had no benefit i could hear, a small box and low frequencies is the most power demanding i have heard. especially since i have added 9 db in that region.
@@sudd3660 Well it depends on what power supply the amps have too.. And how the watts are messured.. That 100w amp might as well be just as powerful as one that is false rated at 200+ watts.. So be ware of that. I generaly look more at the power supply than the watts on paper.
@@Oystein87 you have some good points, i dont know the power supply spec on the small amp, but the large one has 1200watt max rating. i also know the subwoofer ohm and a sealed cabinet helps keep it above 8hm all the way down. the power of the magnet on the driver also helps.
I dunno, ive heard subs powered by mere 150-250 watts that can cause involuntary bowel movement! Still makes sense what paul is saying though! Car audio guys often are running like 50-75 watts to door/rear deck speakers, and THOUSANDS of watts to their subs! I just watched a review for a car amp that requires 3 seperate batteriesto be connected as well as a major alternator upgrade just to run.
I believe the better option is to have all the wattage as equal as possible. I have two amps. 200x2 and 200x3. Subwoofer 200w. 2 twelves. I down firing. The advantage is that as I increase the volume it’s linear across all speakers and subs. If you mix then as volume increase bass can jump up higher and one is too busy trying to equalize everything. I never have to adjust anything much. Just the subwoofer level which I have on my remote control. I hate getting up and sitting down adjusting stuff. I have no bass and treble controls. Don’t need them.
If the systems impedance rise is at minimum 4x its nominal ohm wiring, would you be better off matching the subwoofer to an amp 4x the subs rms to account for the rise?
Always better to have the amp bigger to have headroom. Turning up the volume on a weak amp is the most common and easiest way to blow up speakers (tweeters are most sensetive to distortion) since they run out of juice and start to clip and distort. A more powerful amp will have control and push out every last dB before the speaker itself gives up. And at that point it usually gets a bit louder than with a amp with a weak powersupply and false watt ratings. But there are also other variables.
As I run a programmable amp, my music is L&R 140W with subs pulling 300-800W depending on the pedal note lol. When the program goes to A/V the 11 speakers drop to just 0ver 100W so the subs 800-1200W at this point are a bit over the top just like a theater. REL HT-1508's
that is a old general rule, any application of dsp or powered speakers makes it less useful. thats why generalization is not a good mindset. i have 10" subwoofers in very small and sealed cabinet and 15hz deep extension with only 100 watt amp.
Now you confused me, you told earlier about having lot of head room is important, but with 89db efficiency speakers, 100watt is enough?
Look at subs as independent contractors. You usually can adjust the output on a sub any how.
Big waves take big force. Ya need room for the boom 🤘🏽
Relative (personal subjective) SPL is all that is important to match.
How do you do that?
@@terryjefferylee6314 1st I don't. I understand that except for pipe organs, no musical source goes below 50hz basically. I also understand that most rooms are too small for the wavelength needed for true bass. So people use subs to add sound pressure. Impact affect. Not actual frequency reproduction. Laws of physics and all.
But basically it is more important that each set of drivers has enough power to match the outputs of the others. And with typically different efficiencies for different boxes (full range, sub) matched wattage means nothing. Just so you can reach the same levels based on subjective preferences.
I have Carvers True Subwoofer Junior, a 9” cube with 1500 watt amplifier goes down to 25hz.
Husky workbench, I use one them as my stand up desk...
I have a six-channel Sony amplifier in my car that puts our 45w per channel x4, and 90w x2 at 4ohms for woofers. Or if you bridge channel 5 and 6, 350w x1 at 4ohm or 600w x1 at 2ohm. So you're saying that's not so nuts after all! I'm just using a single 100W under seat sub for now but may look to open it up in the future, I too was worried about that being too much and being imbalanced. Thanks.
All you need is 'enough' watts. I'm running 2x200 for mains and 2x250 for passive subs. Plenty loud and the subs keep up no problem. If my mains were 2x70 I'd still want the same subs. 900 watts for a sub? Often those numbers are inflated/peak anyway. One sub I had years ago was advertised as both 225 watts and 55 watts.
I always think atleast twice the power for the subwoofer than the speakers. Headroom and well what Paul said and also it's just better in every way.
I have 150w into 8ohms to my floor speakers and my 200w sub does NOT follow at the highest volumes with the most bass heavy songs. It does great 90% of the time but in some cases the DSP just limits the output to not distort and blow it. So my next one will be quite a bit more powerful. Or maybe get two. Or build myself. Not sure yet but it will have a ton of power avaliable instead of "living on the edge"
experience is nice to have on these things, and i am still trying to figure out how subwoofers and watts work together.
when i built my own subwoofers i knew the driver, amp and dsp so i could really get into things.
i built 10" subwoofers in 18 liter cabinets aiming for 15hz output. all recommendations and was that i needed hundreds of watts.
so i tried my two different power amps and had even more powerful amps in my list to buy if needed.
and my smallest amp, icepower 100 watts was enough to reach max excursion easily. and the bigger amp provided nothing extra.
@@sudd3660 Max excursion does not mean it gets enough power.. A small amp can easily do that but does not mean it is optimal in any way. A bigger amp has always alot more control and headroom at high volumes.
@@Oystein87 thats why i tried the bigger amp, and had no benefit i could hear, a small box and low frequencies is the most power demanding i have heard. especially since i have added 9 db in that region.
@@sudd3660 Well it depends on what power supply the amps have too.. And how the watts are messured.. That 100w amp might as well be just as powerful as one that is false rated at 200+ watts.. So be ware of that. I generaly look more at the power supply than the watts on paper.
@@Oystein87 you have some good points, i dont know the power supply spec on the small amp, but the large one has 1200watt max rating.
i also know the subwoofer ohm and a sealed cabinet helps keep it above 8hm all the way down. the power of the magnet on the driver also helps.
So the Rel T5x doesn't have a lot of back pressure. The amp only produces 125 Watts.
I dunno, ive heard subs powered by mere 150-250 watts that can cause involuntary bowel movement!
Still makes sense what paul is saying though! Car audio guys often are running like 50-75 watts to door/rear deck speakers, and THOUSANDS of watts to their subs! I just watched a review for a car amp that requires 3 seperate batteriesto be connected as well as a major alternator upgrade just to run.
'ive heard subs...150-250 watts that can cause ...!' ! - Very possible - with a bigger cab...
That is because all they play is "BOOM - TSSS" and the TSSS hardly requires power. BTW, it has nothing to do with audiophile music.
I believe the better option is to have all the wattage as equal as possible.
I have two amps. 200x2 and 200x3. Subwoofer 200w. 2 twelves. I down firing.
The advantage is that as I increase the volume it’s linear across all speakers and subs. If you mix then as volume increase bass can jump up higher and one is too busy trying to equalize everything.
I never have to adjust anything much. Just the subwoofer level which I have on my remote control. I hate getting up and sitting down adjusting stuff.
I have no bass and treble controls. Don’t need them.
My KEF sub has only 200 watts but it still has much more power than I ever use but then my sub isn't small either.
If the systems impedance rise is at minimum 4x its nominal ohm wiring, would you be better off matching the subwoofer to an amp 4x the subs rms to account for the rise?
Forget impedance You are FIRST congratulations on this amazing performance you get 🥇🏆🍾🥂👏🇳🇱 You were so fast to click!
Always better to have the amp bigger to have headroom. Turning up the volume on a weak amp is the most common and easiest way to blow up speakers (tweeters are most sensetive to distortion) since they run out of juice and start to clip and distort. A more powerful amp will have control and push out every last dB before the speaker itself gives up. And at that point it usually gets a bit louder than with a amp with a weak powersupply and false watt ratings.
But there are also other variables.
If you never dial the volume all the way up, what possible difference could it make.
As I run a programmable amp, my music is L&R 140W with subs pulling 300-800W depending on the pedal note lol. When the program goes to A/V the 11 speakers drop to just 0ver 100W so the subs 800-1200W at this point are a bit over the top just like a theater. REL HT-1508's
Tired of repairing the amplifier in my b&w asw825. Looking to get a newer external amp for it
Thar's what I did.
Deep extension. Small size. High sensitivity. Pick two.
yup
that is a old general rule, any application of dsp or powered speakers makes it less useful.
thats why generalization is not a good mindset.
i have 10" subwoofers in very small and sealed cabinet and 15hz deep extension with only 100 watt amp.
If you can afford it and you have a choice to go with 10 inch or 12 inch subwoofer, go with 12 inch one. This is like night and day difference.
A lot of the watts rating is marketing BS anyway.