Van Life recirculating shower system
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- A complete walk-through of a recirculating shower for a conversion van or RV..
This is part one of the three major videos in this series:
1. Van Life Recirculating shower
2. Van Life Recirculating Shower schematic
3. Van Life sink and water purification
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Damnit, while I was trying to imagine and put down on paper, something like this, others have actually built it.
It's probably good practice to try and come up with something original on your own first before seeing the work of others. Then, it can be helpful to compare designs and see what you got right, and what you didn't; what you figured out yourself, and what you forgot. Sometimes you may even spot parts of other peoples' designs that you disagree with. Maybe your design requires an additional pump, or maybe you want another filter or a different filter type. What do you incorporate? What do you change?, Component configurations or orientations? Where things connect, where things open/close, where water flows?
Another big consideration for recycling showers are their ability to self-clean, to one degree or another. How intensive or complex is the backflush process? How easy is it to change back from one system mode to another (backflush mode, to shower mode, to fill mode, to drain mode, etc.)? Do the filters get adequately cleaned afterward?
How complicated do you want your control system to be (if using motorized ball valves, for example)? Do you want to hand-turn all your valves anytime you want to change modes, or do you want anything automated?
Do you have the technical ability to configure all these systems, or would you want consultation or expert help?
What's your budget?
What are you space constraints?
Hope these thoughts of mine might inspire or provoke invigorating thoughts of your own. Best of luck, dreamers.
This video is pure Gold ! Thank you so much for uploading !
Glad you enjoyed it! This is a link to the installation into the van - ua-cam.com/video/vYiWQh-6bY0/v-deo.html
Omg
I knew i wanted this, but didnt even know it would exist.
He breaks out the system and lays it on the floor so you can see every part without moving around things or seeing it in a diagram.
that's amazing effort and i appreciate it
Engineer: Makes this
Experienced Engineer: Adds the manual valves, "just in case"
Skip the Grey tank all together. Use the 5 gallon tank and have it recycle the water directly from that tank, through the filters and back out of the shower head. The secondary tank only adds possible problems and takes up space. Also, I've found that the filters seem to plug up very fast. They make 25 micron carbon filters. You could put one inline after the spindown filter. Then add one 10 micron, followed by a 5 micron fiber filter. This way you won't have to replace the carbon filter ao often.
Good points...I also find the grey water component superfluous! You could probably get half a dozen showers from one tank (providing you used a specific non foaming organic soap/shampoo)...before dumping tank and refilling.
I see what you’re saying, and I agree. But wouldn’t you still want a separate fresh water tank for drinking and other things? Just not having it connected in to the shower filter system?
When finally installed we did use a single tank. In actual use the filters have not plugged up quickly. Water pressure is good. The UV system is as important as the filters. See installation video ua-cam.com/video/vYiWQh-6bY0/v-deo.html
@@desert4seat You have one tank for all the fresh water use. Then fill a separate tank from that for the shower system.
Imagine how valuable such a system might be in an area with extreme water shortages.
Yes…… but please don’t be so logical! Our society doesn’t take kindly to good ideas.
Lol 😉
The best most thorough instructional video that I've seen on a recirculating shower. Many thanks!
Wow, thanks!
Pretty cool system and a lot of work in my opinion insanely over complex.. I have a similar recirculating shower in my refrigerated truck build however I just built a deep shower basin to act as the water storage tank it drains into a spin down filter of 40 microns then into my water pump then through a three-stage filter system down to 5 micron a UV light into my propane instant hot water heater and to the shower head.. extremely simple design and works fantastic with a 60 PSI 2.2 gallon per minute pump has good water pressure and water flow. For my sink and drinking water I just have a completely separate system with clean water tank and pump with separate gray water tank side by side under the sink.
That's what's nice about building it out yourself. You do what you want. Everyone's needs, fit and finish, are different. I find my system very simple and easy to maintain. The drinking water is separate. There are three videos in this series, explaining the full system.
@@FrugalFactor thanks love the content keep up the great work!
Out of the shower and into the armchair as they say ;) Love it. Thanks for making the vid!
Your Welcome, thanks for watching.
Great video Shouldn’t you have a check valve on the line that feeds the five gallon tank so if the 16 gallon tank is low the two water level equalize it won’t have contaminated the water in your freshwater tank and make the tank dirty. You could also have a pump to feel it into the 5 gallon tank and still have the check valve so there is no chance of contamination. You might also be able to use the pump that will feed the sink do both. Another benefit of having a pump is when you tanks are low you can still take a shower and if you are park on a non level surface it will still feed the tank. Don’t you need a electric valve on the return line to the tank to stop the flow to the tank when you went to empty it and make sure there is not anything running back to the tank or are you just relying on gravity to empty it. Last thing is maybe have a manal valve on the cold side of the water heater so if there is a problem on a trip you can still take cold showers.
A check valve would then require another pump to feed into the 5 gallon tank. That could be done, but right now I do not think it is needed. Fewer moving parts, improve reliability. I expect to keep an eye on the water level so it never equalizes. Also, there will be at least two 16 gallon tanks.
Awesome! Thank you! Easy to understand, and great pacing
Glad it was helpful!
Now you need to make an E-book with all the particulars in it and sell it to us folks out here.
Working on it.
My mind goes to why the wife won't let you shower in the house!🤣
The intro was rather provocative. Makes you wonder.
Loving the details in this video, great job!
Thank YOU for the positive feedback!
I think this is a good design, I would make a few changes though. I would want to build this so it was only using about 2 gallons of water in the loop. The other change I think would make this better will be to have the run off from the shower go through filters and then into a gray tank when your done showering., Then from the gray tank you could re-prime from there to the shower cycle again. I would have heater in the shower loop. I would also use a tankless water heater for that part as it would only be adding a warm up to the water that you already showered with. I would just run my recirculate sys as a separate loop and have a separate hand held shower spray down in the shower so that I could rinse off at the end with non reused water. I think that this would lower the complexity of the system and in theory make it so you could reuse the shower water more then one time/shower because the shower gray tank will already be filtered water that should be safe for reuse, maybe add a UV light in that tank. Hope that some of this made sense.
Thank you for sharing your cool build.
Are you aware of Snow and Curt's shower system? IIRC, they're doing some of that.
UV is already in the system. In the installation I omitted one tank. Check out the installation video. I would not use a tankless heater in an enclosed van (fire danger).
Really good, actually amazing. Thanks for sharing.
Thank You for watching!
Dude you’re friggin AWESOME!!!!!💪🏽
Someone on YT that can actually differentiate between you're and your - what a blessing!
@@n.lyndley.9889 Your so right. :)
I appreciate that! This is a link to the installation into the van ua-cam.com/video/vYiWQh-6bY0/v-deo.html
This is such a great video! Thanks for sharing. And it's nice to know that you've done many showers in the garage already, and this is not just a prototype anymore.
Have you considered using a thermostatic shower head or shower panel? I have it in my house, it's so awesome that the water temperature stays constant regardless of how hot my hot water is. I've never seen it's used in RV, and wonder how that'll work.
do you have a link to the product you are referring to?
I'll be doimg just that - so Hold my beer!
What is the total constant wattage draw between the two pumps, uv light, and heater?
Thank you so much..
Welcome!
Thanks so much for your video!! I'm planning on doing a similiar setup in my Van but I'm going to use a hydronic heating system that runs off my diesel. This provides instant hot water so I do not need to account for the extra 4 gallons in an electric water heater.
I really need to finalize the design soon, as my custom comined dual tank is being welded, so I would REALLY appreciate your feedback!
I'm trying to minimize the size of my recirculating shower tank. I'm desiging a single stainless steel tank that is divided in two. One side will have my fresh water and the other side will be my recirculating tank. A welded plate will keep them separate. The total size of the combined tank is limited to 25 gallons. So if I have a 5 gallon recirculating tank then I will have a 20 gallon fresh tank.
I think there is a minimum amount to allow for the system to work and then the size would then affect how many showers you could get before you would want to drain and refill with fresh water.
I remember seeing another recirculating shower design on facebook where the recirculating tank was only 1 gallon. Of course the tank was drained and refilled each time. I believe 5 Gallons is a good size for up to a week of showers but I'm wondering if I could also have a good system with only 3 or 4 gallons.
What do you think the minimum size should be for the recirculating tank if you were to drain and refill the tank each time?
What do you think the minimum size should be for the recirculating tank if you were to drain and refill the tank once every three days?
Thanks so much,
David
Good thoughts and questions. First I hope the tank is stainless; otherwise there will be a rust issue.
To reduce the size of the tank you need to know how much water is needed to make the full circle. What I mean is through the pump, up the showerhead down to the drain. Whatever that amount is you will need a little more. You do not want to be sucking air through the system. You also need to carefully place your suction line and drain line, so you do not pull air into the system. My drain is gravity fed, and at the top of the recirculating tank. The suction is from the bottom of the recirculating tank. If I don't have enough water, I get air in the system - and that spurting shower is no fun! This means your recirculating tank needs to be a perfect size to ensure you have enough recirculating water. I think it can be done with 3 or 4 gallons. But remember you may not always have your van on level ground! Another thought is a rubber bladder for the recirculating tank. The bladder would expand and contract as water is pumped in, and there would be no air introduced.
I'm doing one as well but my concern about using the MAIN freshwater tank is using soap in the shower.
I don't see an anti scald valve or thermostatic mixer. That would be a good safety addition.
The brewing hobby has a hop filter that makes a low-cost inline coarse filter, perhaps combined with the aquarist's sock filter. Positioned well (modified shower drain), this would reduce maintenance on your trap and extend the life of your more costly filtration.
We use an 110 wall timer that automatically shuts off after 15 min. Saving electric. The water heater has temperature settings built in.
Brilliant to make a system outside the van so everyone can see the components and how they work together. Can we get a rough idea how much the cost of all the components might come to?
I found your video yesterday and have been rolling this design around in my head ever since :)
I have a question for you - you have the gray water tank fluid getting pumped back into your small holding tank, and then through the filters and either straight to the shower or through the heater first.
Why not run the water from the gray water tank through the filtering *before* it gets into the holding tank? It seems to me you will accumulate, to use a non-technical term, stuff in your holding tank, not all of which will get carried out with water being pumped out and filtered out later in the system - why not filter it beforehand and keep the holding tank cleaner?
You need a volume of water to keep air out of the system. If you filter it before going into the holding tank you would need an additional pump. One pump to move the water through the filters into the holding tank. Then another pump to move the water out of the holding tank to the shower head. The 5 gallon holding tank is not pressurized. If it held pressure you might be able to do what you are suggesting. But, then I would expect it would be more prone to leaks, of a great deal of water when a leak happens (close to 5 gallons).
This is the reason I am prototyping everything. Prototyping and building it presents new problems and ideas. Thank you for the comment and watching. There will be many more Van build videos in the future.
By creating the video's I pay more attention to detail, and in the future I can look back at what I have done.
I see... yes, a second pump would do the trick. I agree that pressurizing anything would be a Bad Idea :)
The question is, would a second pump be worth not having to flush your system as often, because the filters would catch stuff prior to getting into the holding tank and that tank would stay clean longer?
I've also been pondering making this an entirely closed system. No connections to fresh/gray tanks. Idea is if the water coming out of the pan is filtered straight away, the water in that closed system would be useable for longer, and then one's fresh supply would also last longer. Just drain and fill at the same time you drain/fill the main water system.
Another compelling reason is the water heater. From what I can tell, probably across the board but with those Bosch units especially, to drain them you have to remove them entirely and tip them over so gravity takes over. You can drain that holding tank whenever but to properly flush that system out, you've got to get the water out of the heater too. Filtering before the holding tank would mean longer periods between needing to flush the system.
(I wonder if you couldn't set up a three-way valve just ahead of the cold water inlet on the heater and hook it up to some sort of air connection? Could you flush the heater tank out by air pressure as opposed to water pressure? Would that alleviate the need to disconnect/remove the heater to drain it?)
Here's another reason one might want a larger vehicle to convert to accommodate this system. If you had a box truck you could potentially have a step up into the bathroom with many to all of the components of the shower underneath. The water might even passively go into the holding tank via gravity eliminating the need for one of the pumps.
My gosh, are you single Amy? 😁 I'm just building to drive UK Russia Mongolia and finally to Nepal...
@@jupiteradventure5284 I am, but probably a whole lot older than you are.
@@amywalker7515 sixty five - although I don't look it, I don't normally admit it - or act it ✌
@@jupiteradventure5284 Sounds like a match made in heaven.
Great video. How much electrical power does it take to run the Bosh water heater for let's say 10 minutes or something?
I'm very interested as I plan on having a 550ah 12volt battery system. And have always been told electric showers in a van conversion are a big NO haha.
Thanks
Used it without a problem on our first trip. We have 400AH of lithium and a 3000 watt inverter. The water heater is a heavy draw but only needs to be on for about 15 minutes.
How much power do you need to run the shower? I'm thinking in a van you need your battery to run a fridge, electronics, lights and then power the Bosch hot water heater which I imagine would pull a lot of power. Thoughts on that?
We have 400AH of lithium and a 3000 watt inverter. The water heater is a heavy draw but only needs to be on for about 15 minutes.
Thanks for sharing your design. That is how the world gets better... one shared idea at a time. I’m wondering if this has made it into regular use in your van yet and if you’ve identified any particular soaps that are particularly well suited for being filtered? Thanks!
We used it daily on our prototype trip. I have not tested different soaps (not yet).
My apologies for arriving early.
How do you prevent the pipes from freezing in cold climates if the grey water tank will be mounted under the van?
Good question. We will use a 12 volt heating pad for any external tanks. Search amazon for "Holding Tank Heater Pad" to see examples. Turn it on and it is fully automatic. The only tank outside the van will be the grey water tank for the kitchen sink. The tanks for the recirculating shower system and fresh water are inside the van.
How much flow can the UV filter take? Can all the water be sterilised in one go or does the water need to pass multiple times?
This is the same UV system used in homes. It should be able to accomplish the task. Also, we can discard the used water anytime we feel it is needed.
@@FrugalFactor How often do you discard the used water on average?
@@kylesnell4930 Depends on how many showers are taken. Using only 5 gallons of water. Testing I have gone over a week before discarding. That was not a problem. I would not go longer than that without further testing of the water etc.
@@FrugalFactor thanks for this video and the info! Invaluable for our build!
unreal setup. So could instead of the 4gallon water heater, could you just use an on demand propane heater? why go this route? Also, without a pump from fresh to 5 gallon tank, what if you're parked on a hill..... would it still fill it?
An on demand propane heater would need to be vented to the outside, or used outside. Parked on a hill, if steep would stop it from filling - so, don't park on a steep hill. Every situation has positives and negatives.
Hey there,
Awesome video, thanks for sharing the knowledge.
One question, If the hot water heater is being fed by 5 gallons of cold water from the grey water tank, Does the temperature drop off when all the hot water is used up and you are circulating the 5 gallons from the grey water?
Currently designing our own system and would love the feedback.
Cheers!
One solution to this would be to use a tankless water heater.
After traveling and using the shower, I can say that after having the hot water heater on for 20 min, we can both take showers with hot water. Check out the Installation video into the van - its on UA-cam now. I eliminated one of the water tanks.
If you're filtering the water and purifying with UV light, why would you ever have to change the water at all? Couldn't you just run the same 4-5 gallons through the water heater and filter setup for months at a time and skip the grey water tank completely?
Hi and thanks for your great demo! Question, which check valve did you use? I didn't see it in your description.
I used these Valterra valves amzn.to/3MAOmss
@@FrugalFactor thanks for the quick reply! Did you use the Spears 1436 Series PVC Tube Fitting?
The "hour shower" is much better, your system is going to take up all of the space in the van.
The area for the shower is only about 30” x 24. This area also contains the composting toilet. Well worth the space for an indoor shower and bathroom.
What will prevent over heating of the hot water heater when the water is drained out to refresh the water supply?
Turning off the water heater. The water heater only needs to be turned on for ten to fifteen minutes. I will put it on a timer, so that we do not forget to turn it off.
I love the idea in this video. I have a question about the water temperature. You say about having a 9 gallon shower using the 4 gallons on the water heater and the 5 gallons in the tank next to it. How does the water in the 5 gallon tank heat up before coming out of the shower head? Is the electric water heater an instant heater? Thank you.
4 Gallons is in the hot water heater. The 5 gallons feeds both the hot water and cold water. The 4 gallon electric hot water heater is not instant, but very fast. Takes about 5 min to heat up. Total 9 gallons for the shower system, three 16 gallon fresh water tanks, 4 gallon pressure tank for the reverse osmosis water system. That is 61 total possible gallons of water, at 8.3 pounds per gallon = 506 pounds. It is important to plan the weight distribution in the van. Of course you do not need to fill all the tanks.
@@FrugalFactor Wow! So the electric water heater heats up the water coming into it from the 5 gallon tank quick enough for the shower to stay hot once you have used the 4 gallons that was in the water heater at the start of the shower? Thanks for coming back.
@@garybyrne8394 Yes, fast enough to take a 20 min or longer shower. Much longer than needed. Having a shower so you can rinse off is a big plus. No dirty or sandy feet getting into bed. Worth the space inside the van!
@@FrugalFactor Great thanks a lot. This helps with van build plan because we want to be all electric but to also be able to have a normal length shower. Saw four recirculating shower systems for vans and yours was the only one that used electric water heating. Great work to sort that system out.
@@garybyrne8394 Hey Gary or Frugal. Looking at doing the same. Once the 4 gallon of hot water runs out, is temperature basically kept up because the water circulating is already at a high enough temperature such that the Bosch somewhat maintains it ? Essentially functioning as a weak on demand electric heater? Thanks.
Thank you for your videos!
With the fresh water tank connected to the port for the kitchen sink so far from the water heater, would you plan to purchase a second water heater just for the sink?
You mentioned the uv filter needed to be plugged into the inverter. Could it also be plugged into a regular outlet that is closer to the set up and powered by solar to an inverter?
We do not plan on having hot water at the sink. The water heater is only for the shower. If I wanted hot water at the sink I would still only have one water heater. Most people select a 2 gallon water heater, we selected a 4 gallon. The water heater uses a lot of battery power to heat the water 1440 watts. It is the largest energy draw in our build. We would not wait the 15 minutes or use that much power just for hot water at the sink. If after taking a shower we wanted to use hot water at the sink we could just reach over and grab the shower head an use it in the sink - its right across from the sink!
@Frugal Factor Ok I see. Thank you for responding.
What happens if you are off level higher on the passenger side, Would there be a possibility of the water leaking from the vent on the shower side?
You would really need to be very tilted. Our stainless steel shower pan has 3 1/2" side walls. Currently the system is being installed in the actual van. I will have an installation video in the future. I will try being off level and see if that is an issue, that will be in the video!
Couple questions please
Is the grey water separate for the shower and what would be the kitchen sink ?
The pumps that you are using are they bronze or brass bodies ?
Why not keep the shower system separate from the other systems for maintenance and service
Great design
Like how you left slack in you pex so as to facilitate R&R of filters
Good to see ball valves used
The grey tank for the shower is separate from the sink grey tank. There is a link to the pumps that are used. The shower system is separate. Many of your questions are answered in the other videos in this series. Thank You for watching.
Great stuff. Maybe I missed something, but isn't there always secondary (treated) water in the water heater?
There will be water in the hot water heater, unless it is flushed out with clean water.
Wow! Question for you . Once the 4 gallon of hot water runs out, is temperature basically kept up because the water circulating is already at a high enough temperature such that the Bosch somewhat maintains it ? Essentially functioning as a weak on demand electric heater? Thanks.
Yes. Actually as the water circulates, in the beginning it gets warmer. That's because as you said the recirculated water is already warm. So, you can take a rather long shower! We turn the water heater on for only 15 minutes, then off. That's enough to for a hot shower.
So you don't have hot water in your sink for washing dishes? I wonder if there is a way to have the hot water tank before the recirculation, and then just use 120 V 20 amp point of use tankless water heater for reheating the water after recirculation used only for showering. You might be able to get away with less than 5 gallons for both the tank and the recirculating holding reservoir with this design modification.
A tankless water heater requires a large amount of current to operate. That draw on the LiFePO4 batteries is not efficient. If I find the need for hot water to wash dishes I can reach over and grab the shower head.
How do I get you to build this for me where are you located?
I have had many requests. We are in Central Florida. Need to complete this build before answering requests.
The system works but what about using soap in the shower then circulating it back into your freshwater tank for drinking?
Please see video #2. The freshwater tank does not receive and soap. The freshwater / drinking water is isolated from shower system. No soap in drinking water!
@@FrugalFactor that’s amazing! I didn’t even see there was a video #2
This is well done
Im a bit confused about the point of the grey water tank (middle) why do you need it cant the used water go directly into the filters, can you make it smaller?
In order to get the water through the filters from the shower drain it must be collected someplace in order to be pumped through the filters. You could make the grey water tank smaller. It needs to be large enough to keep up with the pump. So the pump does not pull air into the lines.
@@FrugalFactor Hi, I'm a bit confused myself. Couldn't the waste water from the shower drain directly back into the 5 gallon tank, which would eliminate the need for the 10g gray water tank and 2nd pump? If you have 5 gallons in the storage tank plus another 4 gallons in the water heater tank, theoretically there should always be enough water in the 5 gallon tank to keep the outlet port submerged and not sucking air. Only issue I see is that the 5 gallon tank would have to be placed lower than the shower drain, which means your only option is underneath the van. Am I missing something? Oh, and thanks for taking the time to make such a great detailed video!
@@jovanybandomo1195 YES, you could have a single tank. It all depends on the location of the tank and pump. If there is room directly below the shower drain, that would be ideal. But you may need to then place the pump at the same level. When new the pumps should be able to pump even if there is air in the line, but even a little air line could reduce the ability of the pump. It would be very shocking when your taking a shower to all of a sudden air spurt out.
==> I have it on the garage floor as it would be in the van. If you see the blue tape on the floor, that's the walls of the van, cabinets water tank etc. Also, you need to balance weight in the van. Water is heavy 8.3 pounds per gallon. So it is also important to have similar weight on the passenger and drivers side. Not just water weight, but the weight of the refrigerator, cabinets etc.... Thank You for watching. There will be many more videos in the future. Working on electrical, solar, batteries now.
do you think it's possible to have recirculating sink system? or are the particles from washing dishes might make it trickier?
Sink water is nasty
I would not recycle sink water. Really no reason to do that. We do not use that much water to clean our dishes.
110V water heater in a van, you only plan to use the van on mains power?
No, there will be a 3000 Watt inverter providing AC power from the lithium ion batteries.
@@FrugalFactor Thanks for the reply :)
Just.. It sounds like a very power hungry appliance. 3000W / 24v = 125Ah. Imagine you'd need ~1000Ah to have enough battery ?
@@AndreasEUR Not really. Just don't take 4-hour long showers :)
why put your grey water tank in between the system?
your water from your sink is much dirtier than your shower water
Please see all three video's. The sink grey tank is not connected to the shower system in any way. The sink has an independent grey tank. The sink is and its grey water is isolated from the shower system.
Hi Great video.....i'm doing a similar thing using a heat exchanger... ua-cam.com/video/cbw8Apiig8g/v-deo.html do you need both pumps? won't the pump in front of the filters do all the work...can't quite see the need for the pump after the shower collection tank...or have I missed something...cheers
If you take a look at the installation video, ua-cam.com/video/vYiWQh-6bY0/v-deo.html we used a single pump and single tank. The tank is now emptied by gravity.