I've tried to discuss the harm of ABA with NTs, but I never manage to break through. They counter with "but what about the child's safety and well-being" referring to children who would self-harm or were likely to run away. The argument is that ABA isn't what it used to be, and has a positive effect on self-injurious or other risky behaviors. In watching this video, I feel like you've really put into words what I struggled to convey. The fixation on behaviour, the implicit belief in ABA that autistics have no "mind". I intend to rewatch this and take notes, so that hopefully I can better a better advocate in the future.
I'm so glad it has helped! Nobody is arguing that we shouldn't find ways to help kids who might hurt themselves & just leave them to it...but focusing on the behavior & not the personal experience is an entirely backwards way of doing it which can cause unknown harm in the process. Hope that's a succinct explanation :)
@@Ember_Green it would help if we could offer alternatives to ABA, but sadly other therapies are not gouvernement funded and there are little or no studies done about them (for example DIR Floortime).
@@Ember_Green @YoSamdySam three years later i'm just arriving to the party and y'all have become some of my favorite youtubers. thank you for your work!
I have been having difficulty as a (somewhat) neurotypical person with understanding the problems with ABA. This video of yours was my tipping point where I think I finally get it: it being based in the idiotic Skinner behavior world view and ignoring that autistic people have different perceptions and thus different behaviors to stimuli is of course harmful. Thank you.
The conclusion you made on this really kinda blew my mind. You've bought together a lot of information that I've looked at in the past and.. particularly the quote of 'I posit, that rather than being how autistic people act or behave is different - it is rather the things which we find painful and pleasurable. And that, in fact, we are behaving perfectly in line with current accepted understandings of human behaviour and how it works. We make effort to avoid things which cause us pain [...] and we seek pleasure [...]. So rather than our behaviour or reactions, it's the things which give us pleasure and pain that are different.' Thank you so much for sharing this video with me on twitter it has taken me a while to watch through the whole thing as my attention span sometimes isn't great but this is awesome. I really hope you get more people seeing this video as it really helped me figure that particular aspect out. It makes me feel a bit less.. 'stupid'.. for the really bad meltdowns I have that usually result in me running away from a situation in the weirdest way possible, or freezing up completely for long periods of time. Perhaps thinking of that as 'unreasonable reactions' is very very unhelpful to me, as they have reasons... Don't know what else to say but thank you, and sorry for the weird long comment.
I love this long comment - it is exactly what I aimed for with the video & I'm so happy that you have found use in it! If you haven't already, when you have the energy, my 'Face Facts' one also debunks some assumptions made about autism. I'm extremely pleased that it has helped you in some way & had made things make more sense to you! *happy dance* :D
I expected this video to be triggering, but it wasn't and instead was surprisingly educative. Your take on autism being a difference in our experience of what gives pleasure or causes pain. This is a disability because society assumes neurotypical experiences of pleasure and pain and is willfuly ignorant of other experiences.
Yes! And I think this is so obvious when you think about it. The medical model just focuses on random differences to fix to look correct. I think of it like if you had a fever, you wouldn't try to change the reading on the thermometer. You'd think about WHY there is a fever
Excellent analysis! I've recently been learning more about autism and ABA and my friend sent me this video. I love this idea that autism is a normal behavioral response to pleasant and painful stimuli but that this stimuli is simply different for autistic people. Seriously fantastic work, subscribed :) (Oh and thanks for linking to my video!)
I read that book [about emotions] twice because there was so much to get out of it. It was nice that she mentions autism several times. As an autistic woman myself she goes into depth rather than surface and prejudiced guesses as to why we do what we do. Nice!
I have linked this video to so many people now. I received my autism diagnosis yesterday and I have been sending this video to people to get them interested in the subject. You make me proud to be autistic.
Congratulations on your diagnosis! I hope it brings you some answers, or at least direction! I know it certainly did for me :) And I truly appreciate you sharing my work & am pleased that you find it useful. Making this channel was a huge leap for me, so every positive comment spurs me onward!
@@Ember_Green It's not only useful, it's emotionally important to me. You are helping me get to know myself, and for that I am forever grateful. you're a really great thinker.
I'm not that familiar with academic philosophy nor psychology and it took me four runs of this video to understard what I'm even looking at. But after the seventh run things suddenly aligned in my head and I've been doing SO MUCH progressive thinking today! I'd really love to see those morbid AQ-test sheets getting binned and ABA banned. Thanks for this amazing lecture Mica/Ponderful
Sometimes i think there's very few instances of **any** arousal that my body interprets as pleasurable. Like high arousal is almost always in a negative valence with me. And yet, too low of arousal can also be painful, so I stim to keep myself somewhere in the middle, arousal-wise, but even this balancing act is stressful. So, when I find something that provides high arousal that's pleasurable, I fixate on it.
OMG! I thought I was alone in this "need to be in the middle" sensorily. Like I have a lot of hyposensitivity, but if things are too intense & sudden, it causes me distress as well so like I couldn't figure out if I was hypo & hypersensitive, but apparently being both is a thing!
So, based on this evidence, it seems to me that it goes both ways. ABA is a NT solution to the unpleasurable situation of having to deal with autistic people. It's easier, or more pleasurable, to make us appear as 'like' them as possible than the more painful solution of understanding a person they have difficulty relating to... Humans are definitely special alright🙄
How did this channel only just got shown to me by the algorithm??? This was really good; ADHD/Autistic with state induced chronic pain... this is on point.
I was watching this today (I know, I'm a bit behind) & as you were positing, I was thinking "This sounds familiar" & there you go! I live with chronic pain. Have done for 14 yrs. It absolutely does change both behaviour & affect! Yes it does often make me look like a crazy person or a sook. I'm definitely NOT a sook.... Thank you. I need that today
what I REALLY love about your videos so far is that you come to a well rounded but definitive conclusion at the end because so many other philosophical channels leave their videos very ambiguous (which is kind of the nature of philosophy so begin with so I get it) but I LOVE how you ended this and appreciate it as someone with ADD who gets lost in what the message is when too much information is thrown my way at once
Wow. I've been unable to watch for a while. I love what you have done to the show since your move. You have a really amazing new stage and you've managed to still dazzle with your intellect. I will definitely share your show. Already told a few and bc this topic is a rather timely one. I was already planning to share. Thanks for doing girl!
Well this fucking blew my mind. I’ve been trying to do the inner work yeah, worked through my eating disorder and like trying to get into more stable self care and shit. I have a lot of ADHD and autism in the genetic baggage, I ended up on the ADHD side of things and finally got diagnosed and started meds which helps with the mental noise. One thing I’ve really been struggling with on this little journey is getting in touch with my emotions, like I’m a very introspective person and I feel things strongly, but I really struggle to name emotions. I feel things but it’s like I feel a lot or just numb sometimes, and I can tell if I’m feeling good or bad, but my emotional range seems to be good, bad, anxious, angry, sad. Like anything more nuanced than that seems to just feel like I’m scrambling to give something a label, not that it really resonates with what I’m feeling. But that whole feelings chart with the spectrum of good, bad, high and low arousal really explains my entire emotional experience. Anxiety is the bad, mid arousal, sad or numb is bad low, anger is bad high, and I guess you can put calm as good low, good as good mid arousal and horny I guess as good high lol. But like damn, that really explains things so much better for me than any kind of therapy, name your feelings shit. Like that makes it easier to contextualise feelings and figure out what to do to shift my emotional state, do I need to heighten or lower my arousal or incorporate pleasant sensations to shift towards to good side of the spectrum. I gotta read that book.
These videos are great! I'm going to have to go get "how emotions are made" Also, I LOVE hearing anyone outside the US do a US accent! It's like that Monty Python philosophy dinner scene where everyone R's like a pirate😂🏴☠️🦜
I know this is off topic, but the bit about morals not driving actions without desire really puts all the terrible thing done 'for your own good' or 'because the Bible/god says so' in an even darker light
No, it should and needs to be more common to tell your boss they lack ability to do their job effectively. Not use the term idiot as it's ableist. But to tear them down a peg and reduce their confidence needs done. And society need to face why doing that ruins one's ability to survive.
I'm leaning towards hedonism, which is a bit ironic, since I suffer from anhedonia. Also, I don't have thoughts every waking moment of my life. That's just insulting. 😬
Your accent is driving me insane because I can not place it... in that it is incredibly familiar, which means it is either Liverpool or Wirral,.. but I also called a Scottish person Irish the other day... so there is that... Please put me out of my misery
*considers making this my evil genius thing* It's a Derbyshire accent. I grew up near Derby & Nottingham but as I haven't lived in the UK since 2009, it's a little all over the place.
I've tried to discuss the harm of ABA with NTs, but I never manage to break through. They counter with "but what about the child's safety and well-being" referring to children who would self-harm or were likely to run away. The argument is that ABA isn't what it used to be, and has a positive effect on self-injurious or other risky behaviors.
In watching this video, I feel like you've really put into words what I struggled to convey. The fixation on behaviour, the implicit belief in ABA that autistics have no "mind". I intend to rewatch this and take notes, so that hopefully I can better a better advocate in the future.
I'm so glad it has helped!
Nobody is arguing that we shouldn't find ways to help kids who might hurt themselves & just leave them to it...but focusing on the behavior & not the personal experience is an entirely backwards way of doing it which can cause unknown harm in the process. Hope that's a succinct explanation :)
@@Ember_Green it would help if we could offer alternatives to ABA, but sadly other therapies are not gouvernement funded and there are little or no studies done about them (for example DIR Floortime).
This blew my mind several times. As an alexithymic, I need to get in touch with my inner emotional beast, clearly. Great video.
Thanks again, Sam! So happy people are taking something away from my work!
@@Ember_Green @YoSamdySam three years later i'm just arriving to the party and y'all have become some of my favorite youtubers. thank you for your work!
Your channel is really special. It has a very unique voice compared to other channels on autism. I love the challenging intellectual level.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate your comment!
I have been having difficulty as a (somewhat) neurotypical person with understanding the problems with ABA. This video of yours was my tipping point where I think I finally get it: it being based in the idiotic Skinner behavior world view and ignoring that autistic people have different perceptions and thus different behaviors to stimuli is of course harmful. Thank you.
The conclusion you made on this really kinda blew my mind. You've bought together a lot of information that I've looked at in the past and.. particularly the quote of 'I posit, that rather than being how autistic people act or behave is different - it is rather the things which we find painful and pleasurable. And that, in fact, we are behaving perfectly in line with current accepted understandings of human behaviour and how it works. We make effort to avoid things which cause us pain [...] and we seek pleasure [...]. So rather than our behaviour or reactions, it's the things which give us pleasure and pain that are different.'
Thank you so much for sharing this video with me on twitter it has taken me a while to watch through the whole thing as my attention span sometimes isn't great but this is awesome. I really hope you get more people seeing this video as it really helped me figure that particular aspect out. It makes me feel a bit less.. 'stupid'.. for the really bad meltdowns I have that usually result in me running away from a situation in the weirdest way possible, or freezing up completely for long periods of time. Perhaps thinking of that as 'unreasonable reactions' is very very unhelpful to me, as they have reasons... Don't know what else to say but thank you, and sorry for the weird long comment.
I love this long comment - it is exactly what I aimed for with the video & I'm so happy that you have found use in it! If you haven't already, when you have the energy, my 'Face Facts' one also debunks some assumptions made about autism. I'm extremely pleased that it has helped you in some way & had made things make more sense to you! *happy dance* :D
I expected this video to be triggering, but it wasn't and instead was surprisingly educative. Your take on autism being a difference in our experience of what gives pleasure or causes pain. This is a disability because society assumes neurotypical experiences of pleasure and pain and is willfuly ignorant of other experiences.
"Historical ethics jokes. Really am making that relateable content, aren't I?"
I laughed out loud at this. I love your sense of humour :)
Yes! And I think this is so obvious when you think about it.
The medical model just focuses on random differences to fix to look correct.
I think of it like if you had a fever, you wouldn't try to change the reading on the thermometer. You'd think about WHY there is a fever
Excellent analysis! I've recently been learning more about autism and ABA and my friend sent me this video. I love this idea that autism is a normal behavioral response to pleasant and painful stimuli but that this stimuli is simply different for autistic people. Seriously fantastic work, subscribed :)
(Oh and thanks for linking to my video!)
thank you for checking it out! I really admire your work & have already learned so much from you :)
really appreciate it!
I read that book [about emotions] twice because there was so much to get out of it. It was nice that she mentions autism several times. As an autistic woman myself she goes into depth rather than surface and prejudiced guesses as to why we do what we do. Nice!
I have linked this video to so many people now. I received my autism diagnosis yesterday and I have been sending this video to people to get them interested in the subject. You make me proud to be autistic.
Congratulations on your diagnosis! I hope it brings you some answers, or at least direction! I know it certainly did for me :)
And I truly appreciate you sharing my work & am pleased that you find it useful. Making this channel was a huge leap for me, so every positive comment spurs me onward!
@@Ember_Green It's not only useful, it's emotionally important to me. You are helping me get to know myself, and for that I am forever grateful. you're a really great thinker.
and Thank you.the diagnosis lets me finally feel a certain peace and self acceptance I didn't think was possible.
I'm not that familiar with academic philosophy nor psychology and it took me four runs of this video to understard what I'm even looking at. But after the seventh run things suddenly aligned in my head and I've been doing SO MUCH progressive thinking today! I'd really love to see those morbid AQ-test sheets getting binned and ABA banned.
Thanks for this amazing lecture Mica/Ponderful
Sometimes i think there's very few instances of **any** arousal that my body interprets as pleasurable. Like high arousal is almost always in a negative valence with me. And yet, too low of arousal can also be painful, so I stim to keep myself somewhere in the middle, arousal-wise, but even this balancing act is stressful.
So, when I find something that provides high arousal that's pleasurable, I fixate on it.
I think you've just put into words something that I'd been struggling with for months, so thankyou.
OMG! I thought I was alone in this "need to be in the middle" sensorily. Like I have a lot of hyposensitivity, but if things are too intense & sudden, it causes me distress as well so like I couldn't figure out if I was hypo & hypersensitive, but apparently being both is a thing!
So, based on this evidence, it seems to me that it goes both ways. ABA is a NT solution to the unpleasurable situation of having to deal with autistic people. It's easier, or more pleasurable, to make us appear as 'like' them as possible than the more painful solution of understanding a person they have difficulty relating to...
Humans are definitely special alright🙄
How did this channel only just got shown to me by the algorithm???
This was really good; ADHD/Autistic with state induced chronic pain... this is on point.
I was watching this today (I know, I'm a bit behind) & as you were positing, I was thinking "This sounds familiar" & there you go!
I live with chronic pain. Have done for 14 yrs. It absolutely does change both behaviour & affect!
Yes it does often make me look like a crazy person or a sook. I'm definitely NOT a sook....
Thank you. I need that today
This was amazing and awesome. I shared it with my autistic discord pals and twitter.
You definitely need a larger audience base
Thank you so much! I'm so pleased you took something from it & I really appreciate that you have shared it :D
Hope you like the rest of my work too!
Your videos are something i clear space for so i can focus. They are great stuff and really funny
what I REALLY love about your videos so far is that you come to a well rounded but definitive conclusion at the end because so many other philosophical channels leave their videos very ambiguous (which is kind of the nature of philosophy so begin with so I get it) but I LOVE how you ended this and appreciate it as someone with ADD who gets lost in what the message is when too much information is thrown my way at once
Your voice is so calming!
Oh thank you :D
(it was a big fear that my voice would be too annoying for UA-cam!)
Wow. I've been unable to watch for a while. I love what you have done to the show since your move. You have a really amazing new stage and you've managed to still dazzle with your intellect. I will definitely share your show. Already told a few and bc this topic is a rather timely one. I was already planning to share. Thanks for doing girl!
Thank you so much! I look forward to being able to work more consistently soon :)
i am thrilled to go through and watch all your videos! they're all TOP notch
The dramatic readings are brilliant. Still smiling.
Well this fucking blew my mind. I’ve been trying to do the inner work yeah, worked through my eating disorder and like trying to get into more stable self care and shit. I have a lot of ADHD and autism in the genetic baggage, I ended up on the ADHD side of things and finally got diagnosed and started meds which helps with the mental noise.
One thing I’ve really been struggling with on this little journey is getting in touch with my emotions, like I’m a very introspective person and I feel things strongly, but I really struggle to name emotions. I feel things but it’s like I feel a lot or just numb sometimes, and I can tell if I’m feeling good or bad, but my emotional range seems to be good, bad, anxious, angry, sad. Like anything more nuanced than that seems to just feel like I’m scrambling to give something a label, not that it really resonates with what I’m feeling. But that whole feelings chart with the spectrum of good, bad, high and low arousal really explains my entire emotional experience. Anxiety is the bad, mid arousal, sad or numb is bad low, anger is bad high, and I guess you can put calm as good low, good as good mid arousal and horny I guess as good high lol.
But like damn, that really explains things so much better for me than any kind of therapy, name your feelings shit. Like that makes it easier to contextualise feelings and figure out what to do to shift my emotional state, do I need to heighten or lower my arousal or incorporate pleasant sensations to shift towards to good side of the spectrum. I gotta read that book.
Wow! This is brilliant. Some really novel thought. Thank you!
Yeah, this was really something. Thank you! (And Heath, thanks for sharing)
really glad you guys are enjoying my work! I hope my future offerings also pleases! (and, cheers, Heath!)
These videos are great! I'm going to have to go get "how emotions are made"
Also, I LOVE hearing anyone outside the US do a US accent! It's like that Monty Python philosophy dinner scene where everyone R's like a pirate😂🏴☠️🦜
That conclusion is spot on! That was an ace vid thank you.
thank you so much, glad you enjoyed it!
Great vid, very informative. Thanks
thank you!
Hell yeah, David Hume, LFG!!!!!!!!! 🤘🤘🤘🤘😅
I know this is off topic, but the bit about morals not driving actions without desire really puts all the terrible thing done 'for your own good' or 'because the Bible/god says so' in an even darker light
I think I was subdued to ABA... Haven't read deep into it, but descriptive wise, it seemed that that's what it was.
No, it should and needs to be more common to tell your boss they lack ability to do their job effectively. Not use the term idiot as it's ableist. But to tear them down a peg and reduce their confidence needs done. And society need to face why doing that ruins one's ability to survive.
Is it embarrassing that the first way I tried to make mating an f-word was fornicating…
I'm leaning towards hedonism, which is a bit ironic, since I suffer from anhedonia.
Also, I don't have thoughts every waking moment of my life. That's just insulting. 😬
i hope that one day aba can have the same negative public image that gay conversion therapy has so we stop getting tortured with it
❤
It looks like the Hungry Caterpillar is behind you
Your accent is driving me insane because I can not place it... in that it is incredibly familiar, which means it is either Liverpool or Wirral,.. but I also called a Scottish person Irish the other day... so there is that... Please put me out of my misery
*considers making this my evil genius thing*
It's a Derbyshire accent. I grew up near Derby & Nottingham but as I haven't lived in the UK since 2009, it's a little all over the place.
Ponderful damn! So wrong! I knew I was wrong... Next I won’t be able to tell north from south... *sobs and throws the phone*
😀😀😀
There is much worse running around than murderers.... XD
Fornication
+