Recurring Traditions and the Historical Christ | Discussion with Dr. Dale Allison Jr.
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2023
- What was at the heart of Jesus’ teachings? Apocalypticism? The Torah? Pacifism? Radical love? And what did he think of himself? Did he see himself as a prophet, even one like the great Moses? A King of Israel? A divine figure, even perhaps the God of the Jewish scriptures? Who was the historical Christ?
Dr. Dale Allison Jr. is an eminent New Testament scholar whom I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing once before. He is neither an apologist nor a skeptic. In contrast to most historical Jesus scholars, he does not make much use of the "criteria of authenticity" (eg. the criterion of embarrassment). Rather, his methodology emphasizes recurrent attestation: what are the themes/motifs we see throughout our sources? That's the main question to be asked in attempting to reconstruct the historical Jesus.
In our discussion together, I offer some questions and objections: what do the recurrently attested traditions reveal about Jesus? Regarding the Gospels as historical sources, are there any such themes throughout the Gospels that are actually not authentic? What's wrong with rejecting everything in the Gospels as inauthentic? Conversely, what's wrong with accepting everything in the Gospels as historical? How do we, as Christ-followers, balance open truth-seeking with the critical quest for the historical Jesus? We discuss all this and more in the eleventh episode of The Life Discussion.
#historicaljesus #interview #truth #newtestament #daleallison #jesus #history #bible #theology
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RESOURCES
The Historical Christ and the Theological Jesus (book by Dr. Allison) --
www.amazon.com/dp/0802862624/
Jesus as a Figure in History: How Modern Historians View the Man from Galilee (book by Mark Allan Powell) --
www.amazon.com/dp/066423447X/
The Historical Jesus: A Comprehensive Guide (book by Annette Merz and Gerd Theissen) --
www.amazon.com/dp/0800631226/
"Pursuing the Historical Jesus" (lecture series delivered at Yale) --
• Dr. Dale Allison: Purs...
Thank you so much for sharing this wonderful conversation!
Your channel is killer. More Dale the better.
And I'm right there with ya man. Dale's work is a breath of fresh air. I felt suffocated by atheism, dogmatic confessions, and apologetics. His honest and calm approach was pivotal in relieving my dark depression. Him and David Bentley Hart.
This one was really good. I resonated with everything he said, and I really appreciated your ending on choosing to balance uncertainty with faith.
Great interview! enjoyed it. 👍
My friend, (Nahoa), you are wise beyond your years and I predict you have a very bright future in the apologist-skeptic debate. Honest, inquisitive minds like you have are in seemingly short supply these days and I would like to commend you for that. I saw your interview with Robin Faith Walsh which was very good, I wonder what impression her book left on you, as well as her general stance on the NT writings. Further, if you have a chance to review Joseph Atwill's "Caesar's Messiah" I would love to get your take on it. It was published over a decade ago and has gained slow but steady acceptance among NT scholars, the ones who aren't tethered to their own conclusions at least.
Looking forward to this one. Good work
40:12 ooh thank you, that’s a very helpful critique of Schweitzer
Nicely done...
To me the Luke 17 'kingdom in you/among you' is Jesus speaking of himself (God), AND foreseeing his Spirit in us that will hear him, and receive him.
*The Incarnation of The Eternal Live is The Biggest Zen Master!*
*The ETERNAL WORD OF GOD,* to which the written Gospels testify, is infinitely more than the written Gospels and letters.
*The ETERNAL WORD OF GOD (Yeshua = Jesus)* is *the Eternal Gospel!*
A Parable About Nohoa
In a town nestled between the mountains and the sea, Nohoa was known as the man who wandered in circles. Day in and day out, he would trace the same circular path around the town's ancient tree, reading from a Bible, hoping to find the answer to his place in the universe.
Children would often playfully imitate his circular walks, elders would nod in respect to his dedication, and travelers would visit just to see the man who was forever searching. Nohoa believed that the Bible held the key, and if he persisted long enough, the truth would reveal itself to him.
Seasons changed, and with each year, the rings on the tree grew, mirroring the circles Nohoa walked. Birds migrated, flowers blossomed and withered, and the tide of the sea ebbed and flowed. Yet, Nohoa's search remained unyielding.
One day, during a particularly harsh storm, a lightning bolt struck the ancient tree, splitting it in half. Devastated, Nohoa stopped in his tracks. His compass, his anchor, was now altered.
As he sat amidst the fallen branches, a gentle wind rustled the leaves. He looked around - the mountains stood firm, the sea roared in the distance, and the sky painted a kaleidoscope of hues as the storm passed. It was then that he had a profound realization.
Nature, in all its vastness and beauty, carried on irrespective of his search. The universe moved in its rhythm, not perturbed by his questions or his circles. Nature didn't care, not in a cruel way, but in an indifferent, eternal one.
Nohoa understood that his search in the Bible was not in vain, for it led him to this moment of clarity. Instead of seeking validation or a fixed place in the grand design, he began to live in harmony with nature, accepting its indifference, and finding peace in the knowledge that the universe simply is.
From then on, instead of walking in circles, Nohoa wandered freely, exploring the vastness of the world around him, finding solace not in answers, but in the majestic dance of nature itself.
Vaughn Rees 2023
That's dope... I don't find the Hypothesis of Indifference appealing, but I can appreciate this!
I was raised in a predominantly Catholic setting, largely influenced by my mother. While my father was indifferent to religion, my mother's beliefs were deeply rooted in her Catholic boarding school upbringing. As a result, she held some views that seemed, to me, to border on indoctrination. Then one day she surprised me when she said "I'm giving up my belief in God because I've spent my entire life praying and worshiping, attending services three times a week and yet not one thing has improved" As a child, I attended a Catholic elementary school, sang in the choir, and even considered becoming a priest. However, that changed when I transitioned to a public middle school due to the absence of a diocesan option. The diverse experiences and perspectives there were eye-opening, but my belief in God remained. Over the years, I grappled with the question of why suffering exists in the world. I explored various denominations, but none provided a satisfactory answer. Eventually, I found myself at a Buddhist temple. Over the next three years of study, I was introduced to a different worldview. I learned that the concept of a Supreme Being wasn't central to their beliefs. Instead, the cosmos, as a product of nature, became my focus. I began to see the importance of understanding, appreciating, and coexisting with the natural world and was able to throw off the shackles of religious indoctrination. I'm 77 now and have spent the last 50 years earning a Maters degree in Social Psychology, while studying philosophy, evolution and comparative religion. During that time I was able to attend events at some of the most despicable religious groups in California, such as Calvery Chaple, Trinity Broadcasting Network, Biola University, The Benny Hinn faith healing scam, the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. For some, religion is an important aspect of their lives, helping them deal with the fears and frustration of life. For me religion is a distraction from the reality of life; it is often used a divisive tool to manipulate societies into taking actions that benefit a few power hungry and greedy individuals while squeezing those that could least afford it.
Thru out the Bible we have numerous claims, but seldom does someone begin by seeing these as "alleged claims". How do we know that these claims are nothing more than writers enhancing a story to make it sound more probable. When they claim that something was witnessed by large groups; how do you prove the claim? How do you know if it wasn't enhanced or added to make the story more plausible? You don't!
NOHOA'S QUEST
In Nohoa's quest, the stars did gleam, Seeking meaning, in an endless dream. Through sacred pages, he'd weave and wind, Hoping for answers, some truth to bind.
The Bible's whispers, tales of old, Promised stories, secrets untold. Yet every verse, and every line, Led to another, in intricate design.
Round and round, like planets that turn, His heart would yearn, his mind would churn. Seeking placement, his role, his part, In this vast universe, where does one start?
Endless circles, a spiral so vast, Questions from the present, shadows from the past. The more he delved, the less he knew, Yet hope kept him searching, to the old and the new.
For every answer, another question would rise, An enigma wrapped, under cosmic skies. In a universe vast, where mysteries play, Nohoa's search continues, night and day.
Forever running, but never to find, The final answer, to ease his mind. But in the journey, perhaps he'll see, That the quest itself, is where he's meant to be.
Awesome! A poem about my quest!
As Nahoa's father. I really appreciated and enjoyed this poem.
I am starting to think that this type of investigative strategy might be unhelpful. My sense is that Dr Allison is right to go broad, but I'd say it's probably better to just go even broader and ask, is there any evidence or supportive consideration suggesting that Jesus is and has been alive since his crucifixion and then work backwards to trust in the gospels from there. There are plenty of considerations in favour of Christianity that don't require critical analysis of the gospels.
To me it seems that if one investigates the gospels without already having a sense that God is working in and through them, then the speculative options are as wide as the imagination and new and rehashed theories will likely find home with each passing generation of scholars. I think one can make defenses of the gospels' reliability with historical tools, but can one really find their way to trusting them from the outside in, so to speak? I'm starting to think not.
How are you this intelligent and well read for a 15 year old?!
I have great parents, I guess 😊
Hello - He did not preach Hell for one thing, as explained by Archangel Michael in The Winds of Truth. Blessings