I really liked the added flashback with Joel explaining how he became a smuggler, it really clicked everything together with Joel's history and feels borderline canon.
When I had the idea, I dug into it, and was surprised that they’ve never answered who gave the soldier the order to kill Joel and Sarah. Maybe it’ll come up in 3?
“Abby is dead,this is the part where I’m supposed to say I feel empty but I would be lying to myself.I finally feel awake like I can breathe again.and Joel nothing can change his death but maybe I can still do something that will make a difference”
We think the story could’ve been improved simply by adding that guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender who yells, “MY CABBAGES!” whenever his supply gets destroyed. It’s a lot like how people call out the names of whomever you just killed in game, but way funnier and lighthearted.
ellie bumps into a jackson vegetable vendor and says the iconic line, while on the flipside abby does the exact same thing and the cabbage vendor says the same line. This sequence can also unironically serve as a tutorial on how to pick up items as you help with the mess you just caused
First, Joel "robbed" Ellie of the chance to save the world, then Abby "robbed" Ellie of the chance to forgive Joel. So after that Ellie goes after the revenge thinking that she hates Abby, but really she's just unable to forgive herself that she didn't forgive Joel before he died. In the end she's able to finally understand that and forgives herself, letting Abby go. That's how I read it.
That's my main issue with the story. I was upset Joel died but I was okay that he did. What I didn't like is how his murderers were just handed the man on a silver platter. Joel has never been a relaxed guy, he knows people in the world hate him, he knows how to be smart. Yet somehow he just gives his name to complete strangers? Doesn't even try to hide who he is all of a sudden? Tommy too like wth happened to these characters? They were never that chill about giving their names.
@dash9641 I felt the same way too. I thought there were too many coincidences and I wanted to see what Abby would've done if she had no choice but to infiltrate Jackson. How would she do it, and would she have killed innocent people to get to Joel that could potentially start a war with Jackson. Abby got her revenge and walked away with clean hands, apposed to Ellie who killed countless people who had nothing to do with Joel's death, then when she about to kill Abby, she let's her go?!!! Such a bizarre ending
@@dash9641 actually Tommy has always been this way he never was like his brother that’s what caused them to even split apart in the first place, I do agree about the Joel part but Joel’s not the one who gave the names Tommy is and think about the situation realistically you find a 19-20 year old girl all alone visibly shook from what has just occurred and now she’s alone with 2 grown male strangers, Tommy did the thing he would do and that’s to comfort and make her feel a little safer by introducing them to make things familiar and that’s the tragedy of it cause he incidentally causes his own brothers death. But I do agree it’s super coincidental and I also have a small problem with it.
@@smoke-o-time3913 you have to understand that Ellie’s mental was faltering throughout the story and you see that through things like the chance they get to go home to Jackson when they think they know where Tommy is but she decides to keep going to Abby even though she’s already killed almost all of Abby’s friends she keeps going, the game tries to make it as apparent as possible that Ellie is starting to do this for her own selfish desire rather than for Joel or for anything else. This caused her to have to kill all these people along the way and Abby’s part is that she did have to deal with killing and things like that on the way I understand the frustrations of the dumb coincidence that she ran into Joel but I also think that for 4 year she had to deal with knowing the identity of her fathers killer and not being able to find him plus she’s not the person her father would’ve wanted her to be and she starts to realize that later on in the game when she runs into lev and yara and begins to care for them when the day before she talked about killing kid seraphites and that it would be their fault but once she takes care of these kids her nightmares go away and she starts to finally have sleep filled nights without jolting up in the morning after 4 years it was the first time she got a good nights sleep, the game is all about perspective so saying that Abby didn’t go through anything to get to Joel isn’t fully correct
@@aidenwilliams2889 Bro what are you even talking about? That is literally what happened in the game. Tommy gave out their names like idiots and Joel just went along with it despite that going against everything he's been shown to do up until then. We have already seen Joel is not stupid enough to fall for that that crap in the first game. Joel legit called out a attempted ambush and even during the fall of humanity he was untrusting of people and refused to help a family stuck on a road asking for help. He legit told Tommy to keep driving. You seem to be forgetting that part in your attempt to make me look like I don't know. That is the whole reason that ambush from Abby didn't work for so many people and why OP made it something Ellie would fall for instead because Joel just wouldn't after everything we have seen of him. I'm genuinely shocked Joel hadn't already talked to Tommy about just handing out their real names like candy assuming everyone is friendly. Would of been an extremely important thing to talk about so the very thing that ends up getting Joel killed doesn't happen.
it's True that Revange doesn't bring Joel back and could cost a lot and you can Almost see it as Selfish Act but That's what Humans Are. Sometimes Humans do everything they can just for there own personal feelings and don't care if it's Right or Wrong.
It’s funny I never watched anyone play it to see their reaction to the end of the first one but I guess since I’m a parent I did NOT hesitate to kill the doctor like I walked in and just shot him so seeing everyone hesitate made me realize i was a lil too much like Joel while playing 😅😅
omg dude same like i never once second guessed or questioned his decisons. like i was like meh this kinda sucks i feel bad because the doctors aren't like, actively attacking me... but at the same time no fucking way would i let anyone harm my baby. not a moment of hesitation. i hate that part 2 retconned the hospital scene, super disappointing druckmann was trying to push a narrative of joel being some big bad awful guy when a lot of people would do the same.
Yes, I agree. I love a closer looks version of the story and his version was awesome but even this version would still have the game at least at nine out of 10 because you’re not changing much of the story. The biggest improvement I’ve seen here was that Ellie had a hard time forgiving Joel, and Joel was still using his survival instinct, but Ellie wanted to call the shots and it ultimately got Joel killed that alone is a huge improvement to what we already got it must be a damn shame to have people who are fans of the last of us have better fan made ideas than the creator himself ain’t that some shit with that being said I give his perspective on the story changes five out of five stars
@@godzillazfriction what do you mean by that any other version of a story of the last of us content creators have posted has significantly been better than the original and my opinion I’m not seeking any validation I’m just complementing the UA-camr perspective which I like better than the creator of the last of us part two but if you wanna believe that, hey more power to you, it is what it is I don’t know how he explain it, but from what I watched in the video, Ellie makes a certain mistake which cost Joel his life, and that alone is more realistic than the story we originally got in the last of us part two because Joel would not fall for that very easily given what we have experience in the first game with him. Now I don’t know if you agree with that or not, but that’s my personal opinion but if you think I’m just seeking validation for my reason for commenting, I think you’re wrong on that. I got a life. I don’t need anybody’s validation, but it is what it is.
@ like I said, it’s my opinion whatever your perspective on it it’s fine I didn’t understand the me seeking validation part that you mentioned, but if that’s what you thought then you’re free to believe that. I just agree with the UA-camr and I commented on what he said in the video that’s it.
@@godzillazfrictionImagine being a legendary keyboard warrior that you intensely bait others for an online argument that doesn't need to be pushed further. Chill dude. The commenter had opinions and wanted to say it. They respected your opinion, and you can't do the same for them? They are not obligated in any way to answer your raging ego and have better things to do 😂 I've seen your other comments on this same video. Don't you have anything better to do than attacking people's opinion? Whether it's "disingenuous" or whatever, it's theirs. Not your business.
About the thing with Abby almost killing Dina About that she is pregnant Ellie killed a pregnant woman too Yeah she didn't know... but Abby doesn't know that... Yeah its not "oh that makes it all okay and i like Abby now..." but eh... wanted to bring it up
Wow. Never have I related to a video more in my life. Every single point you made, every thought, every rationalization, it was all perfect down to the last minute detail
I like how you wrote the story, but i think a reason for abbys part being halfway through the story is because of gameplay You play as Ellie, not really knowing what youre getting into, what the wolfs are like, who the scars are, learning how to play the game But as abby you already know how to play, you know how the scars are like, what some of their whistles mean, etc And you generally understand how things flow more, same way an inexperienced survivor of a town who does patrols around, killing mostly infected, has to figure out things by themselves in this foreign QZ vs a trained soldier who has been fighting these scars for years,
@@TDOI332 arguably the story suffered on that (pacing, triggering endless comments about "forcing abby down everyone's throat"), so I don't know if I would consider it truly "genius" I would label it genius if they found a way to make both work seemlessly
@@d34thnote79 I don't have a huge issue with the story, but then again I didn't wait 7 years to play the game so my situation may be different. I think it's cool that the experience of the player is shown through the game's characters. Like @bananabird735 said, "You play as Ellie, not really knowing what you're getting into... learning how to play the game. But as Abby you already know how to play."
@@TDOI332 As far as @d34thnote79's argument goes, the game was pretty seamless for me; and I did play the first game after they had remastered it, but I already knew the story from watching playthroughs. To your argument, there are several UA-camrs that, like you, played both games for the first time back-to-back, and every one of them massively enjoyed BOTH games.
Holy crap what a Herculean effort this was, and I was so compelled I listened to the end WAITING to hear what happened next, even though I know this story already! Man, you are an excellent storyteller and writer. I felt your themes and parallels so heavily, with each new reveal i could feel the gut punch it was. I understood where basically every character was coming from, and found myself empathizing with these people doing horrible things after horrible thing. Absolutely incredible.
Cabbage is better! And thank you for your kind words! Yes, this was a big undertaking to sketch out and produce, but I was really hoping people would enjoy it. Appreciate you watching!
This is DEFINITELY a better story than what we got and it fixed a lot if the criticisms towards the game but I still think it judges Joel in a very unfair manner. Despite trying to give Ellie a mirror image of Joel's last choice, it still wasn't at par w what Joel's situation was. In Joel's case, there was a timer on Ellie's life. He had to act fast because any delay can cause Ellie's demise. The fireflies had BOTH of them held hostage while in Ellie's case, she was an outsider looking in with no threat being posed to her own safety. Joel was cornered between a rock and a hard place. It doesn't help that he never believed in the fireflies and was eventually fucked over by them. Let's not forget that this mission cost him his last partner, Tess, and wasn't even being given the payment they were promised nor the respect he deserved for going all the way from Boston to SLC. Painting Joel to be a bad guy for not choosing the pacisift route/"having empathy" when the entire firefly organization showed him NEITHER empathy nor respect is kinda fucked up imo. The fireflies, a group bombing QZs with no regard to civilians, was never a good group. Let's stop pretending that they ever were.
@@thegamingcook785 I mean how can you forget that? That's literally the twist of the entire game, you think Ellie is this really special kid that can save the world until you realize there have been dozen others that all been sacrificed with nothing to show for it
@@thechugg4372 I think you misunderstood something. Joel saying there are many more like Ellie is a lie. It is also stated in the next game, and is also why Ellie is mad at Joel. So no, not a twist…
HOLY CABBAGE!!! I love how your version of this game fixed parts of the story and gives the player the choice to do what they think is right. Not many games do that. Please keep doing what you're doing!
My mother used to make stuffed cabbage. A Hungarian dish, using ground beef and rice wrapped in cabbage leaves. You stack them in a pot, then pour tomato soup over the top and cook for a few hours. I never appreciated it back then. I should try making it myself now. I wasn't a big fan of the first game. Much like Joe Haldeman's or Robert Ludlum's books, they try to say violence is bad, then show all the awesome ways you can do it. It's hypocritical. Your montage of the doctor's deaths is a great example. I empathize with the guy with the blowtorch most. More than anything, the characters may pay the price for your violence, but the fact that they suffer removes that burden from me as a player. Compare that to the later levels of Spec Ops: The Line, where the loading screens ask questions like, "How many Americans have you killed?" and "Are you proud of what you've done?" That game made me feel awful, especially as a veteran. TLOU 2 was nothing more than the exploitation of violence with a thin plot to tie it all together. I feel like the characters go where they go and do what they do because of what the writers wrote, not because of human motivation. I understand why Joel did what he did in the first game, despite how petty and shortsighted it was. I would probably do the same. He feels like a human. Living in the post-apocalypse and burning an enormous amount of resources and personnel for a petty grudge doesn't seem like rational thinking. I guess if I were the writers of the game, I would have just told another story with different characters in their world. How is the disease affecting England? Canada? Australia? Heck, how about Hawaii? There were a million other stories to tell, but they chose to return to the well and write a story that everyone has problems with to some degree. Everyone's head canon would probably be better. Great work. I wouldn't alter a thing about your changes. This definitely makes me want to read your book. Drop the title one of these days. I go through about 50 novels a year, so I can always use something new to read. As far as other games to fix the plot, I can suggest PREY (2017). I love the ending, but it is sloppy and a lot of people didn't. Clive Barker's Jericho was incomplete and ended in a horrible way, so it could definitely use some love. The last would be my beloved Spec Ops: The Line. The simple question would be this: how would you fix the ending of Joseph Conrad's Heart Of Darkness? It's in my top ten of games and has incredible writing, but I'd love your take. Keep up the good work, Kev!!!
Really cool video, watched the whole thing I disagree with a lot of things, for example you say that the motivation wasn't clear for Ellie, but I think it was, she and we as players want to seek revenge for Joel, that was enough for me And Abby's story worked really well for me, at the farm when Ellie decided to pursue Abby again, I was so sad, I wanted her to drop the revenge. At the final battle I was rooting for Ellie to spare Abby. That said, you made some changes that turned the story less faulty, specially at the beginning with the whole "Joel wouldn't be careless like that" thing
This game is so special to me. The years leading up to it, I blindly bought into the hate mob on youtube about it. But something compelled me to play it myself once it came out, and I ended up loving it, I've never been more immersed in a game's world and the ending had me thinking about it for months. So when i saw this video i felt hesitant, but I have to say, I agree with your changes, I think they are really good. I already believed the story was much better going back and forth between Ellie and Abby, I even made saves at certain spots so i could play it that way. Anyway I really like your ideas and I secretly hope now that Season 2 of the show might do things similarly.
I loved the game people still don’t move on from Joel there was never no quote on quote bad guy or good guy or main character people can change it and some things sound interesting tho
I just want to correct a detail. The Ellie revenge journey happens few days after Joels death as Tommy asked Ellie to wait him for one day. There's absolutely anything that suggests it took months to Ellie and Tina to follow Tommy.
To clarify, GuvNuhh is correct. It took Dina and Ellie months to arrive in Seattle (hence the seasons changing), but the decision to leave to Seattle to get revenge was only a few days after Joel's death.
I would think it took maybe 1-2 months to get from Jackson to Seattle. The seasons changing isn’t as much of an indicator since Seattle doesn’t get snow, but it does have days of torrential rain followed by nice sunny days during the winter…like what you see in the game. There was also a newer journal entry when you arrive in Seattle about Dina getting sick “a few weeks back” and if I remember correctly, when Dina admits to Ellie that she’s pregnant Ellie says something of the same effect, that they could’ve turned back weeks ago. And the girl math time indicator…Dina says she was suspicious but not sure when they left Jackson so she’d probably just missed a period (6 weeks along is usually when your spidey senses start tingling). She’s just starting to have first trimester sickness, not showing (which usually happens around 4 months) and still fits her jeans! So it couldn’t have been that long since they left Jackson.
That was a great way to explain the story and also give players the choice to choose the story they wanted to see unfold during the course of the game you did a great job and get a 10/10 on how you choose to FIX the story!
I've watched damn near every TLOU video essay (at least ones that aren't made by annoying cry babies) and this is only the second one that has mentioned the Israel-Palestine conflict that inspired Neil Druckmann. Mad respect for not being scared to talk about what is, in my opinion, unavoidable to mention when discussing the story of this game.
I was planning on making a whole video discussing how I think they could've fixed the story in this game but now that you released this video I don't think I'd be able to top it. Awesome job Kevin, you've earned yourself a sub :D
I've watched quite a few videos "fixing" this game's story and honestly didn't expect much coming into this video but man you killed it. Genuinely would love to see this version of the story somehow
Time for some cabbages Honestly, the melding of the stories to make them more precise or believable like it was in the first chapter. You phrased it in a manner where it makes sense. The main problem that I’ve always felt with the game is what you addressed briefly. That we spent countless hours and time with Ellie and Joel and maybe an hour at most with Abby before takes Joel on a golf pro tour. I thought a way to address this (along with massive world building along the way) is just to ignore Ellie and Joel for the sequel for most of the game. We go in depth with Abby’s world, a world post apocalypse beyond Joel and Ellie. The game remains vague throughout on her motivation for revenge for her father, sprinkling details along the way. She defies her leaders with a small group to follow a developing lead. Then plot separated her from her group, but fate encounters her with Ellie. And strangers are working together to survive. As the game settles, Ellie and Abby separate. But Ellie drops a patrol map. A map that leads back to her home - to Jackson. The flashbacks come and her motives are revealed to us as the viewer. Then she comes back to her group and tells them that they found where he’s living. And that she can finally get revenge on Joel. And the game ends. This saves time and confusion with time skipping building Abby up. We can stay for the most part in the present, with Joel flashbacks through the game as they are. Joel can die in the beginning and there would be more conflict with us as the viewer because we’ve had so much time with both Abby and Ellie and their stories. We can feel the empathy that Druckmann wanted. Then we can go through the story with more precise story melding as you described it and it would be more feeling of empathy for everyone because we are mowing down people we’ve spent time with. I don’t know. With the series coming up to season 2, who knows if there will be changes. It’d be crazy if Neil Druckmann sees this and implements this in the series.
Hey, I don't have any cool ideas, I just wanted to say that I enjoyed the video throughout. The pacing, the way you form your arguments or show how the game has done "it", all really good Most of all, I love how your idea for the story (without changing anything major, though that's a shame) ties in perfectly. It's really impressive, how you can wrap your head around the story with such comprehension
I like your rewrite of the beginning but also the scene where joel dies is the first scene where we see joel and ellie together in one room and it is heartbreaking and also this scene feels different after every flashback I think ellies obsession with the revenge is mostly anger at herself she didn't forgive him he died before she had a chance to forgive him she was robbed of that chance at santa barbara she doesn't care for abby or revenge (in the diary she asks herself why is she even here) she just thinks she can could forgive herself for not forgiving joel while he was alive if only she can get rid of the reason she didn't have the time and when she let her go its ellie forgiving herself what i actually don't like about the ending is how ellie loses everything while abby loses nothing (sure her friends are dead but she would have parted ways with them ether way so it doesn't really mater) ellie loses her family, connection to BOTH of her parents (her mothers knife is somewhere in the sea), two fingers, her friends thats the way I interprited the ending
Great video! Just one adjustment I'd make, specifically at the end. The story has to be linear. In order for the possibility of a 3rd game (whatever that may be based on what we know so far). Ellie should spare abby no matter what. The first TLOU game gave us no choice we had to kill the doctor, likewise, we should have to spare abby. Maybe instead of the ending flashback with ellie FORGIVING Joel, it should be about, UNDERSTANDING Joel. If this story is supposed to be about ellie walking in joels shoes, then instead of outright forgiving him, just understanding him should take priority. Ellie isn't Joel, she would've absolutely had died if given the choice, but she never TRULY understood why he lied and did what he did. It would still be controversial, but at the very least, we'd get a better reason WHY Ellie lets abby go (really, saving her). Ellie ending the circle of violence, thereby saving both lev and Abby, is more her character than killing Abby. Joel would kill abby in a heartbeat, but he isn't ellie. Ellie killing all of abby's crew to protect dina is within her character, but killing abby when it doesn't mean anything (especially when abby has lev, who'd be left with no one as a child, resembling ellie in a way) isn't within her character. Ellie would die to save that world, joel would kill it to save ellie. And that is what's left up for the audience to think about. Was both Joel and Ellie justified in their decisions at the end of the game? Joel saving ellie, and Ellie sparing Abby. Those are just my thoughts! Great analysis, watched it through and through. Great idea to mesh both ellie and Abby's stories together instead of keeping them seperate! Awesome video!
We need to change it so that Maria doesn't let Ellie and Dina leave Jackson, because that moment character assassinates Maria. We have to change it so that Ellie and Dina sneak out during the night. Her defining characteristic in the first game was her dedication in keeping her people safe, so for her to send out two teenage girls (one of them being single most emotionally compromised member of her community, who would most likely just join Tommy in the quest for revenge) who are far less experienced than Tommy is, to go and get him back, is completely out of character. We have to change it so that Ellie and Dina sneak out during the night.
I think the two campaign solution would work. Doing a straight revenge game of Abby and Elle on two separate campaigns. Joel snarls about how he saved Elle and he would do anything to keep her safe to Abby's group before Abby begins the trap. Then have Elle scream that it's her fault and beg Abby to kill her to find the cure. When Joel sees her ready to kill Elle, Joel yells to Abby he killed her Father in brutal detail. That is when Elle's campaign begins. For Abby, show how the fireflies collapse after Joel's attack against them and start her campaign there. Each Campaign, the player chooses if the respective enemy lives or dies. They both mirror each other.
0:18 ive seen 4 different better versions that id deem better then what was released, my fav was one from a video called last of us desecrating a grave one more time
@KevinHelpUs wait rereading what I wrote makes it seem I didn't like this, nah I like this one too, giving the player a choice at the end even if niel wouldn't like what people would choose is super important and treats the message very seriously could you let Abby go... I cant
Your version of Abby is WAY more understandable, they definitely rushed the story no matter how much Neil wants to deny it. Many of the major issues can easily be fixed. It's difficult because Naughty Dog is trying to tackle a discussion as Impossible as solving world hunger, racism, or poverty. while attempting to take a high road with lazy writing. Great work as always!
@@haesome8613 Whichever way you want to cut it, this story is more advanced and well-written with subtext and subtle foreshadowing than any other game. It gets so much slack for existing in (or trying to live up to) the same standard set by the first game. I commend this game for its never-seen-before representation in a AAA game (almost unanimously hated by the “gamer” crowd). I also commend it for not taking the money-grab route of bending to the will of the audience and producing another half-baked re-work of the first game’s dynamics. People would have been happy with this, but it would have been completely inauthentic and much more deserving of criticism. Joel needed to die and to make that decision is a feat that I have not seen in the AAA game industry.
@@kkickks That’s sure is a lot of words without saying anything lmao. TLOU2 fans will always instantly jump to glazing when their game is criticized istg. Joel’s death isn’t the problem, the problem is the fact that it was rushed, stupidly executed, and committed by an unlikable psychopath that the game tries to make you empathize with. Representation means jack sht, couldn’t care less about it if the story was good, but tacking on representation to an already defunct story doesn’t suddenly make it any better. The representation wasn’t “never seen before” either, games like Life Is Strange had tons of it way before TLOU2 ever reared its ugly head. You know what’s the worst part though? There was something there. It would be so easy to just dismiss the game but I can tell from playing it over three times now that there were people who made this game with passion, but that passion was squandered by holding the importance of a message over the importance of an actual story
@@Cogito-r6n Thanks for the snark in your take, makes you real likable. (EDIT: just scroll down… you will see how insufferable this guy is… like 1000+ comments) I dont defend this game with my life, I just like to point out how literally no other game’s story is held to this standard. Look at any other game. The writing is dogsht and stiff in comparison. The only major issue I have is the pacing. Also, joel’s death wasn’t “rushed”. it was abrupt to reflect the brutal, unpredictable world. Nothing is more realistically brutal than the death of a loved one before you got to make peace with them. Abby’s arc was divisive, sure, but her perspective was an ambitious, risky way to tell a AAA story, even if it didn't land for everyone. I think any AAA game that pushes boundaries is worth commending. Do you really want more formulaic Far Cry, Assassin’s Creed or Call of Duty? As for representation, Life is Strange isn’t close to AAA, so it’s not comparable. The blockbuster scale, budget and audience reach of tlou2 make its representation a much bigger deal (especially to the insular and generally disdainful gamer crowd). Now, what I find interesting is that you called Abby an unlikable psychopath. How do you feel about Ellie then? She’s just as ruthless, if not more so, throughout the game. Do her actions feel more justified to you? I personally think Ellie lost her humanity
@ I don’t intend to be likable I intend to make points about how the story is flawed, it makes my eyes roll when people praise the game for stuff like its “representation” or its “boldness” rather than the value of its story and thus I refute these claims. Many other games are held to this standard, if the next god of war game was about how Kratos was just randomly killed by a common enemy and we were expected to follow Atreus as if he were the mc people would get mad about that, rightfully so. People got mad at the game because it ripped away everything that made the first game good and shoved its corpse down their throats. As pointed out in the video, Joel stupidly tells random strangers where they live and what his name is, something that the Joel established in the first game would never do considering the fact that he knows ambush traps very well and could sniff out a setup from a mile away. It’s not realistically brutal, it’s just dumb. I’m not saying a game can’t be different I’m saying it still has to be well written, “pushing boundaries” means nothing if the pushing of boundaries is the only thing of substance in which the story contains, which TLOU2 barely pushed boundaries in the first place. What I want is more Ghost of Tsushima, Cyberpunk 2077, God Of War, etc. games that actually push boundaries and define what a game could and should be through their beautifully crafted stories. Life is strange is triple A lmao, it got tons of rewards and Dontnod Entertainment is no small company. Also throwing representation into the faces of people doesn’t get them to like it, surrounding it with actual good content does. Abby is an unlikable psychopath because she beats an old man(who saved her life) to death in front of his adopted daughter and by the end of the game almost kills a pregnant woman on purpose. Ellie has way more humanity than her, crying over people she killed like Nora or Mel, letting Abby go at the end, tbh she was way more merciful than I think she should have been. If I were writing the story, I would make her get progressively comfortable with killing people with Dina getting progressively uncomfortable with her behavior, culminating in Ellie’s realization that her mission for revenge is futile. This would also play into the Santa Barbara section because Ellie doesn’t go to Santa Barbara for revenge, but for redemption. She frees Abby and goes back to Jackson satisfied with her actions and demonstrating her character growth
@@godzillazfriction Nice way of saying you’re just another mindless fanboy and didn’t even watch the video lmao. If you’re going to say anything say something worth my time or go back to being a sheepish drone
It would have been a challenge but I truly think with a few more flashbacks per side these two 3 day journeys could have been 2 separate games. Market the last of us 2 as a new story, (don't falsify trailers to make it look like the game people want). Start with Abby, yes I mean that. Start with Abby's story from the moment she wakes up in the stadium. There is a war going on she's heavily invested in, but they're losing the tides are shifting and casualties are piling up. Same 3 days, same sniper sequence, the first clue/hint that people from Jackson are involved should be at the conclusion of the sniper scene. Game ends when Abby confronts Ellie/Jessie/Tommy in the theater, until that moment you didn't even know Ellie was there. Game 2 starts exactly like part 2, Joel dies, you gear up for Seattle, same 3 days as Ellie. The problem with Abby going second like the live game is you can't forget what she does, you can't be too invested in her story because she killed Joel. If you played nearly 8-10 hours of Abby in her story BEFORE knowing that she killed Joel a month prior you WOULD be invested in her story, with a few more flashbacks you would understand why her and her friends NEEDED to go to Jackson. The game was slow, but certain story beats were still rushed, you could really flesh out the dialogue, the regrets (or lack of regrets) in every chapter if you had the time and space to do so.
Much like Ellie couldn't sleep during the Santa sabra chapter i couldn't after finishing the game. The one thing i thought about is how this story's layout/structure could have made a much more significant impact on us as a player. and how certain events completely eliminated any build up it had. Thank god somone did it before i drove myself insane trying to do it myself.
@@KevinHelpUs no girl thats not a compliment you completely changed the game into something utterly unrecognisable. This 'making the game better' is just erasing any intentional message the game tried to convey. Your media literacy is dead.
I have seen dozens of reviews and critiques on this game both positives and negatives and this is the FIRST TIME I have heard that enemies communicate via Whistling!
I think it should've been this way with Part 2 to improve it. We should've started playing Abby at the prologue, and then we forwarded it to Joel and Ellie, Abby gets lost by her friends later gets saved by Joel and Tommy from the infected she gets brought back to Jackson Ellie gets back too, so then Abby is helping Joel, Ellie, and were having flashback scenes of Abby tracking down Joel for Years and developing the reason why she's after Joel the whole story, at the end it would be like Joel, and Ellie, are trapped by Abby and her friends, and Abby is forcing Joel to get straight out answers out of his mouth, the way how Joel dies would be Ellie is wounded he's protecting her and he kills all of Abby's friends by himself in a gunfight except Abby, she shoots him in the chest, kills him, and she escapes. Then, the upcoming Part III would just be about Ellie going after Abby to kill her. Good video, though, on explaining it.
i liked the normal game, i always thought that abby's half couldve been better, but was still good. in all seriousness with all of your fixes i think this game wouldve been just as good or maybe even better than the first.
The game is good. Its just the pacing is off. They should have went back and forth between abby and ellie. Instead of doing one oart then taking us to the other.
Cabbage! Great take, and very well thought out. Never considered how completely separating Abby and Ellie’s segments took out a lot of the momentum of the story. Happy I was able to watch this one without worrying about spoilers! (I still haven’t been able to watch the Bioshock one because I have only completed the first game so far 😅)
GuvNuhh! Thanks so much for watching the whole thing, and get on with playing Infinite! I have my rants about the game, but it's definitely worth playing.
@@KevinHelpUs I will get there! Got a little burnt out because I didn’t just play through Bioshock, I 100%ed it 😅 so I fell off shortly into my first play of Bioshock 2
It would be awesome if they could mod the game to play in the rearranged order you explained, hell they could add the flashback scenes and other lines you added with AI voice clones and could use assets to create a short gameplay segment to it, that would be awesome, I've seen modders do a lot of cool stuff, this would be awesome
I actually loved this game because of the gameplay and extreme attention to detail. Naughty Dog is the "GTA" of on rails stories. If they ever wanted to do an open world attempt, I would get it just to see how they handle the scope and especially the story coming together with the environment freedom. I have a feeling with "the Seattle section" they wanted to dip some toes but couldn't fully commit to it in the ps4/pro timeline, so they avoided a series bullet by doing it the way they know best and do an open world under a new project. I speculate (with no proof at all) they used factions 2 as a smart way to R&D with a project they never intended on doing and collecting loads of PS5/Pro assets and got a feel for the capabilities without fully committing to a full never ending project and got the opprotunity to bank up lots of Part 3 assets. It's kind of brilliant, and the open world maps and data must be golden for them if they want to be the next GTA. Imagine an open world GTA style but with a Naughty Dog story. Or a GTA with a RDR story in GTA. They got to tell a great story without a Trevor guy to give us permission to be a "loveable murdering" P.O.S Maybe a "Donny Basco" type story who either flips to the darkside only to come back and sacrifice himself to save his best friend... or full on darkside choice and you keep playing and run the empire for a day or a week all only to die to your most trusted best friend who is actually Internal affairs you never knew was a cop watching you so close he becomes your most trusted because the stress is too much you need a bro but also can't show weakness to the boss. This best friend was brought in only because sometime at the start, you begin to show a "sign" of changing and a red flag moment, and you reap the fruit whatever you choose to sew. Glorious send-off with a 21 gun salute with dress blues as a cop with honor... or a real cop kills you resisting arrest because you need an epic Tony Montana moment, and you die like a dog by your best friend, the guy, all along. Well, that's my long-winded opinion and great video, bro.
Great video “ cabbage” To me I felt the pacing was off in the game and I would have liked a portion to be you play as Ellie for a bit till you get the reveal that she’s back in Utah at the hospital. Would have been an oh no kind of feeling and built more suspense knowing that she’s about to find out the truth. I also agree that Ellie and abby should have had a section where they work together at first. I felt it was also dumb luck l, Abby should have had to work a little bit for it, even if it meant going into Jackson. It felt unearned imo. I still love the game
Cabbage! Ok so here is my version that I had been brainstorming for a long time now. I would start the alternate version from the marketing. No mention of Joel an Eli in the marketing. Pitch the entire thing as a new story with Abby as the new playable character. Give the entire first half to Abby's relationship with her dad and make us root for them just like we did for Joel and Eli. By the mid of the game Abby's story comes to a closer with the Hospital shoot out. Jump cut to the part where eli comes to the Hospital where she finds out about what Joel did and there both Abby and Eli meets for the first time. Then the story goes pretty much as you said. Imagine the shock and panic build up the players would have as slowly being to understand they are going to experience what Joel did at the end of LOU 1 from other side.
100% agree with you on the final act. This is actually what would make Part II complete in my opinion - to agree or disagree with Joel in Part I by making the decision as Ellie in the finale. Great vid as always!
yoo cabbage. I agree with most of your choices, god especially the constant switching instead of killing the pace. They literally got it right on Left Behind, I never understood why do it so weird on the second game. I also loved your choices to make all the abby-side characters compelling. I'm from the bunch that came to like/forgive abby fast, but her suppot characters felt kinda empty on the original.
Cabbage! I think I wanted more time with the supporting characters. We get next to nothing from Nick and Leah, we know very little about how they all relate to each other, what their history in Salt Lake City was, so if the game wants us to reconsider our vengeance against them, they have to give us some human traits to latch onto.
I think the biggest reason why this game got so much back lash at launch was more of the fact that some dipshit ex-dev decided to leak and spoil the entire plot ofvthe game months before it even was going to be launched. Also one of the trailers presented the game like it was Ellie getting revenge for Dina since they showed Joel coming out of nowhere to help Ellie.
The game didn't get leaked by an ex-dev. That was a narrative spun by haters to make it look like the devs weren't happy with the game. The person who leaked the story was some random 19 year old kid from Poland or something who was a fan and wanted the game to be released early. So he thought that if he leaked everything, naughty dog would be forced to release the game, which wasn't possible because it wasn't finished at the time.
Even if that was true, I don't think narrative leaks hurt things as much as people think. I heard that same arguement with My Hero Academia. I don't see how learning the narrative and ending earlier does anything but causes the hate to show up earlier
this was way better than what we got. The fact that we didn't get the choose to end Abby or not made the game felt pointless. And it could lead to multiple endings.
Here’s my rewrite for Joel’s death. Abby tries to spring her trap on Joel and Tommy, but the teleporting dead barge in and interrupt like they usually do. That gives Joel and Tommy a chance to make a break for it. But being cornered by Abby’s friends on one side and a horde of the infected on the other, you as the player are forced to try fighting or sneaking your way out. But Abby is an inevitable boss fight no matter what. The Malenia, Blade of Miquella of TLOU2 that will make the player’s/Joel’s death feel actually earned and well fought.
The show will most certainly handle things a lot better. the UA-cam channel A Closer Look pointed out how it felt as if TLOU had a polished second draft with Season 1. I agree entirely with most points in this video!
Idk about the alternative ending exploration theme, but I did 100% love the sum up of the in-game story, bringing up details which might have skipped many people who played this game / followed it's story.
I always like to hear peoples takes on TLOU2. I dont think ill ever understand why people are so critical of the game though. This game isnt Uncharted, you are supposed to feel each kill, each act of brutality. Its sort of the entire point of the game, to make you think. Just because its a game doesnt mean its supposed to inherently be a good time. Its just another medium to tell a story. Walking simulators are not what I would call "FUN" to play, but I still play tons of them. I am there for the story and the environment. Sometimes even just the mood or feeling. I think most people just dont get this game. The only real critique I have of the game isnt not humanizing Abby more, and I feel like they could have changed the order of events a little more. We should have been in the dark for awhile as to why Joel isnt around, and what Ellie is doing in the first place. I think some re ordering and slight pacing changes would have made a huge difference. Tell me how Ellie killing Abby would have made anything better? People that say that really dont get the plot. Violence = more violence, at some point the cycle has to stop.
My version of last of us 2 starts with us seeing Ellie and Joel living a peaceful life in Jackson and we find out that Ellie has accepted Joel’s lie. But things change when Joel and Tommy go out on patrol where they are separated by the blizzard. During the storm Tommy is captured and killed being mistaken as Joel by the WLF, this of course prompts both Ellie and Joel to gather a small group to hunt down all members involved with Tommy’s murder. During the expedition through Seattle Joel and another group member are separated from Ellie and the rest and pass through an old firefly holdout in where the group member finds an old tape recorder not only revealing Ellie immunity but the events that transpired at the hospital Joel swiftly kills the group member before he can’t tell anyone else. While making their way through Seattle Joel and Ellie’s group are separated once again but as Joel is making his way through Seattle he encounters a rat king and is bitten by it infecting him, simultaneously Ellie learn the truth from Nora about what actually happened at the hospital. When Joel and Ellie reunite Ellie is obviously furious at Joel and goes on her own path to kill Abby but is captured by Abby. Abby uses Ellie as bait to lure Joel and the two have a fight to the death where in the end a weakened Joel is able to get the upper hand and the player is given a choice either spare Abby or to kill her
Cabbege The first game was so memorable for me and my brother (who passed away in 2019), I have the same name as Joel, and I remember that even though I was a young teenager, I cried at the death of Joel's daughter in the first minutes of the campaign. Seeing these stories being so disrespected by these pseudo screenwriters, full of ego, who think they can improve everything, in fact they can't create anything original, but love to ruin universes that were previously established with so much love like Star Wars, The Witch and Lord of the Rings... Makes me angry. And my problem wasn't Joel's death, but how they did it. excellent video! And great job managing to make this mess acceptable.
Cabbage! I agree that I don't have a problem with a shocking death for Joel - I admit, I was sucked right in when I played 2 originally, but it felt like they tore down a character we loved in service of a new story rather than giving him the sendoff he deserved. Yes, it served Abby's story, but it felt so meaningless the player that I think the audience rightly turned on them.
Okay, that's a rant and a half. You clearly have issues to work on and through. "Seeing these stories being so disrespected by these pseudo screenwriters, full of ego, who think they can improve everything, in fact they can't create anything original, but love to ruin universes that were previously established with so much love like Star Wars, The Witch and Lord of the Rings... Makes me angry." Have YOU ever tried writing something? Because there is one truth - nothing is truly original, and nothing ever has been original. It's all just old spins on older material, be it from other movies, games, books and even real life events. Even being inspired by something means that it the product isn't original. And once you get rid of that mindset of "creating something original", you'll probably be living a happier life.
@terancetan5503 Creations will always be inspired by something, my problem is with screenwriters who use works that are not theirs, to spread their political and social vision. The writers of the last season of The Witch literally said they didn't like the books and that they could do a better job... We've already seen the result of that. Adaptations are necessary, but they must be done correctly, with development. Nowadays they just change a character's color and sexuality, put that as their entire personality and expect the audience to accept it with open arms.
@@drede_Ops I think you mean The Witcher. The Witch is a great horror movie by Robert Eggers. Next time, you probably want to check what you write. Not that it matters since I'm not interested in The Witcher in the first place. Also, your argument makes no sense. The works that inspire creators usually aren't theirs to begin with - Get Out was inspired partly by the Stepford Wives, but Jordan Peele and Ira Levin have no relation to each other, and the movie is told with an African-American perspective and twist to, as you say, "spread a political and social vision". And yet, it is a good movie. The same thing can be said for Annihilation (which changed the races of the main characters), and Blackkklansman and even Do the Right Thing (both of which feature heavy racial and political themes). Not to mention Alex Garland's Civil War, which is basically a critique of 2010s America, featuring concerns of democratic decline and increased political polarisation. And all of them are well-received. Need I also throw Dune Part 1 in there, which changed the gender of one of the characters but was well-received regardless. If you think "changing a character's colour and sexuality, putting that as their entire personality and expecting the audience to accept it with open arms" is the worst thing about movies nowadays, you're living in a fantasy and need to evaluate your perspective.
@@terancetan5503 You are correct, I meant The Witcher. English is not my first language, so I ask for understanding if I end up writing other words wrong. As you mentioned, these films are inspired by other works but bring something new, development and reflection. Civil War was inspired by the plot format shown in Apocalypse Now. But it creates something new, presents a different story. This is different from what I'm rightly criticizing, The Witcher, The Acolyte, Secret Invasion, The Rings of Power... They don't care about the base material and the result of this focus on spreading their ideology results in bad works. That's simply what I wanted to say. We see the character Isaac in the anime Castlevania, his race was modified, but they created a great story for him that brought a beginning, development and conclusion. Most of the things we see today in these productions are characters that start and end the film in the same way.
Cabbage. Well one thing i thought would have been a pretty good ending is the following: Ellie finds Abby strung up by the rattlers just like the real game. Abby mentions something about Lev and Ellie sees that Lev is tied up too. Ellie tralizes Lev is innocent in all of this and doesn't deserve this punishment and she cuts Lev down. However she takes one last look at Abby and without saying anything Ellie picks up Lev and leaves, leaving Abby to die. Lev wakes up on the boat as Ellie drives the boat away. Lev asks what happened and Ellie explains that she saved him. Lev asks where Abby is and Ellie says. "Abby was already dead when I found you. I tried to help but there was nothing i could do. She’s gone, I'm sorry." After a while Lev thinkd to himself and asks. "Was Abby really dead when ypu found me?" To which Ellie replies "she was gone long before i got there." Then lev says "swear to me that's true." Without hesitation Ellie shrugs and says "i swear" And lev responds with a simple "ok" and we cut to credits.
I thought about this! I cut it for time, but I was thinking up what endings would work depending on your choices, and I was debating on Ellie taking Lev. The one question I couldn’t resolve was why Lev would stay with Ellie, even if Abby was really dead. We know why Ellie stayed with Joel even if she doubted him, but Lev has every reason not to trust Ellie. If we could make it work, that would have been great.
Cabbage , I liked the original story for this game ,somehow it did make sense to me but that’s a personal opinion not fact . Good video and I do agree with you and am impressed by your changes.
Even the simple change as having you swapping between their stories as you progress through the game would've helped keep the momentum up, and by the time Abby gets to the theater, you know both stories. I wouldve been more invested in Abby's story if it was laid out that way. What i personality found frustrating was getting to the cliff hanger, and then the game takes me back to show me Abbys story, but at that moment i just wanted to hurry up and get back to the cliff hanger which made me want to rush through her story and didnt care for her character as much. It was a struggle to even continue after the cliff hanger because i felt it was taking far too long to get back. By the time I got to the ending, I didn't really care who lives or dies. Just end the story already! Nice vid!
@KevinHelpUs totally agree! Neil and the team at ND are very talented with their writing, and I do appreciate them trying to do something different, but I think the way they chose to structure this particular story really hurt the pacing and ultimately, it just missed the mark for me personally. But I prefer your version much better 😅
i love this and honestly this is amazing and i would love it and play it enjoy it but its not how its supposed to go i still think i wouldnt change a thing in the last of us 2 the game is set up perfectly and i have to agree with most of the people out there it isnt the ideal situation because its not suposed to the first game is about love and the second is about revenge its not suposed to be a happy ending and i love that about this game it took you down a path of hate and revenge in the begenning of the last of us 1 we see joel lose his daughter and we see him many years later as a man numb to the world we dont see what happend for a reason because its simmaler to Ellie's path the second game is like what we didnt see in the first game when KevinHelpUs said that joel got his revenge for his daughter i was 100% in agreement that he did some messed up things but just like Ellie in seattle he was left haunted again this game isnt supposed to be the good ending becuase its setting up Ellie to be the hero in the 3rd game (or the last one depending how many they make) Ellie made the "right choices" in this game because it sets character development for the next game i dont know whats gonna happen in the next game but it will lead to Ellie being the hero i have ideas what might happen but i think Naughty dog already has it figured out it may be Ellie sacrificing her to make the greater good just like the ending we didnt see in the first game or it could be that she makes amends and creates this new bond of love just like joel did with Ellie because as everyone agrees here the Last of us is about unconditional love seeing the end of the last of us 2 shows this perfectly that was the main part of the thing i wanted to say with changing the times in the story having it mixed i can also see where that comes from but it isnt right because in writting it gives us a break in the story which is definatly needed after the suspense it cuts back to day one with abby the game knows WE want to just go back and see what happens... but it doesnt let us for a good reason it alows the player to do something we dont like again! seeing abby it helps us realise shes not much different from Ellie and this is showed perfectly in this video where they do the exact same thing waking up having to deal with a little problem with the love stuff ***PETTING THE DOG*** and the rest this shows us that they both are going through the same thing and that this change is needed we see that Abby doesnt kill Dina she wants to move on instead of the cycle of revenge growing and growing she stops and walks away showing she cares about Lev and just stopping the cycle of revenge Sorry for the text wall but this is the reason why this story isnt about love in this part of the last of us i do like the adaptation and it is what the player wants but i can assure you that the last of us 3 will give us this it will fix all the wrongdoing thank you for reading my ted talk lmao
Cabbage. I still love this game. It's one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time, as was the same with the first game. I love that its brutal and unforgiving. I love that it's a single player game that's about 20 hours. It doesn't throw jokes in your face. Abbys day 2 is one of the best days for either character. Fighting the scars and sky bridges is one of the most memorable parts of the game.
The main thing was that the game didn't even let you kill her, everything about the way the original is written insinuated that but Ellie doesn't and it's feels unearned. If they just added a choice of kill her or no, that alone would've been way better. But you're remixing of the story would've definitely helped the pacing and ABBY'S side of the story a lot.
Great cabbages Kevin, I think you did a really good job with this. Very well thought-out. Glad I subscribed after the RE6 video. 43:20 seeing this the first time going through the game, I was like "Really? Making it real hard to like her right now." I felt so disgusted with Abby. One of the biggest issues I had with it the first time. Your fixed version of this made it so much better. I hope they did make changes in the show closer to something you have here. I think it keeps Druckmann's vision for the story, and as a bonus, I think it would be better received.
I wonder if they will make changes in the show! First season was pretty faithful, but the first game is much more loved. Four years of looking through fan feedback might make it tempting to tweak a few plot points. We'll have to see!
I love what u did with abby if she would have learned forgiveness honesstly i wouuld have liked the game better and for her to understand revenge isn't the answer better pay off. I hope they do something like the first game for the 3rd game I loved the ending with full heart
"Why would you watch someone else play a game you could be playing" yeah collective experience but also I'm like a stressed chihuahua when it comes to most games you fight in 😅 the only game I can handle with fighting is kingdom hearts and even then I'm shaking after each encounter
Here's the thing MANY miss about, Joel. He slipped up because he was on a high of reconnecting with ellie. Of course, he always thought about protecting her secret, but this was about him. So it wasn't just years of peace but the reconciliation with his "daughter." The end tells this and in-game dialog right before Dina and Ellie go through the grocery store. What I love is how he snaps back into that killer instinct after he's been shot. "Go ahead and save whatever speech you got saved..." Lol I'm a parent... so I empathize with the slip up and truly think people who don't have kids could fully understand that. Just my thoughts on that part.
I always wondered what would have happened if neil would have did the entire story like he did part one. He allowed halley gross to alter the story? I'm not 100% sure if he had a script and she altered it or they wrote it together but I feel like I recall him allowing her to alter the story. Tlou2 would have been more along the lines of tlou1 if neil wrote the entire story. IMO
I can't speak to their process, but I watched the Grounded II documentary, and it looked like Neil and Halley collaborated pretty directly on the story. Can't say how much each of them brought to the table for certain, but I doubt she could have pushed rewrites that he didn't approve.
I’m doing my darndest not to get demonetized. Agreed it’s a little redundant, but there’s a LOT of swearing in this game, and UA-cam’s enforcement can be…inconsistent.
Perfect, I always thought the story was never the problem just the structure. I like what part 2 had to say, I just didn't agree with how it said it. There just werent enough cabbages you know?
I find the structure perfect personally. They managed to do what they did because of it. You can't change last of us 2's structure. That would be telling another story. Had they decided to do the seattle days in parallel, it wouldn't have been the same. I do understand the dislike for such a thing tho. I myself did at first until I started watching multiple analysis on the game. The shock and denial I was in when the backstory with the father popped up 😭🙏. But now I appreciate such a story. It had its plot convenience moments (Yara pulling a knife on tommy, hmm, no) but it was a great experience. Both the first and second game were great.
@@yogurt-chan while I do agree the shock and twist of Ellie being the enemy, Abby's motives for Joel's sudden death at the beggining, and playing as Abby after pushing through Ellies story were a big hit. The pacing suffered massively for it. I don't think the story here changed, it just smoothes out the pacing and turns plot driven points into character driven points. Which I feel is an overall improvement
@@dazed6511the main thing about the way the games set up between Seattle days is that you're supposed to empathize with ellie and want to kill abby, then switch to abby and see that she's human, too. If we immediately jumped into Abby day 1 after Ellie day 1, we'd probably start to like Abby purely because we play as her more
@@3ggPankak3s I understand the reasonings for why it's structured the way it is. I just thought Abby's side wasn't flesshed out enough and dragged on too long. If they wanted to do this they should've commited part 2 to Ellie and had a sequel where you play as Abby. Or even a DLC expansion. That way you still get both sides but the pacing doesnt suffer. I dunno my main issue is the pacing and some of the writing. The story is fine
I don't think you've managed to fix everything, my man. But first, here are the two things I definitely liked about your take: 1- *Removing Joel and Tommy's mistake at the start.* While I can't fully agree that it was uncharacteristic, I do like the idea of Ellie’s role in Joel's death. The game establishes Joel is trying to change for Ellie, but the space to elaborate is limited. Having Ellie somehow responsible for Joel's death is a brilliant solution. Some people even theorize that Tommy’s involvement in Joel's death might change in HBO’s S2, given how little we see him with Joel early on. 2- *Ellie’s actions affecting Abby’s side of the story.* I think Abby should only fear the consequences of her revenge after facing Tommy. Otherwise, I don't see Abby risking the safety of her friends. But I agree the game does miss an opportunity to make us face and anticipate Ellie's choices. I love the concept of both Ellie and Abby trying to get to Nora first. What simply doesn't work out: 1- *Showing Abby's and Ellie's sides together.* Showing Abby’s story after Ellie’s is crucial to the narrative, as the game delves into the complexities of war and conflict, such as sides being unable to fully understand each other. The game challenges us to question our lack of sympathy, but Ellie doesn't have the luxury of a "safe place" to question hers. It is a design choice that both Ellie and Abby never get to say each other a single word in relationship to their journeys; only sparing each other over the consequence of their violence. 2- *Joel seeking revenge on the higher-up who ordered Sarah’s death feels uncharacteristic* and Abby shouldn’t just start moving on after killing Joel. The characters' struggles with moving on are central to the games-they can only heal through connection with others. 3- *Multiple endings.* The first game let us form our own opinion but didn't offer a choice beyond Joel’s method of murder, tying into the franchise’s theme of tribalism and conflict inevitability. This is Ellie's story, not the player’s; and the main character isn’t meant to be a canvas. It ain't Half-Life. My interpretation of Ellie’s choice to spare Abby is that killing her would have brought pain, something she was willing to do to deal with her guilt. But, by coming to terms with the fact that everything that happened-everything she, Joel, and by extension, Abby, did- would have always happened because of their nature, she forgives Joel and then herself. Thus allowing her to stop her self-destructive cycle. Ellie didn't forgive Abby. She got simply tired of destroying her own sense of self. Allowing the choice to kill Abby completely undermines this. Something incompatible with the original intent.
I’ve heard a lot of complaints about the story of TLOU II. Most of them saying how worthless it is. Your interpretation of how the story should be about US is so much more than I ever thought the game could be. I really hope that the next game does give us a choice, because like you said, it all turns back to the original question of “Was Joel Right?” This is a video that I was able to watch all the way through, which is very rare. This is a fantastic piece and I hope more people see this. My first thought was, “this is probably going to be another piece of cabbage”, but boy was I wrong….
I agree with a lot of your cabbages - much of Part II's gameplay actively works against its themes by forcing you to take a backseat. It has so many QTEs but all of them result in the same outcome, whereas giving players the option to make up their own minds (especially in the final fight, whether to kill Abby or let her go) would have a lot more emotional resonance. I still think the game tells a very bold & brave story and has a narrative structure that is unorthodox & interesting, but there's always room for improvement as you pointed out here, and I think the TV show's adaptation will lay out the narrative structure more like how you did here with the events happening side-by-side rather than a series of episodes following Ellie with a hard POV switch to Abby for the next several episodes. I especially like your idea of having a flashback cutscene with Joel telling Ellie about taking revenge on the commanding officer who gave the order to the soldier in the beginning of Part I to shoot Joel & Sarah and how that brought him a measure of peace...that would effectively instill a mentality of "revenge is the only option" in Ellie as so much of what she does in Part II mirrors Joel's actions & ideas (e.g., having two people independently point out the location she's seeking on a map) but she is younger, less experienced, and often fails in this (e.g., putting herself in a position where Owen & Leah got the jump on her and she was cornered and wound up killing them).
Cabbage! I’m real interested to see if they make changes for the show based on fan feedback. The first season was pretty faithful, but it’s the more beloved game.
@@KevinHelpUs Agreed, and the best change they made with Part I was with Bill, fleshing out his character and his relationship with Frank. That was really interesting because that's something from the story they were able to evolve using film (it wouldn't have worked in a videogame as the character development would constantly have to have gunfights or QTEs or some sort of gameplay element wedged in regularly). I HIGHLY doubt Part II's adaptation will keep the narrative structure of the game. I think Joel will die, but not until during or after the halfway point of season 2, then the rest of season 2 and season 3 will juggle between Ellie's and Abby's POV rather than stick with Ellie for several episodes then hard cut to Abby for several episodes (as, behind Joel dying, that was the most hated thing about the game). I mean, let's face it - Joel HAD to die. His past was inevitably going to catch up with him. I do hope the show improves upon HOW he dies (he & Tommy welcoming the WLF, letting their guards down, and even casually giving out their names is NOT in line with their characters or the world building at all), but he has to die to kick off Ellie's revenge quest and journey through grief & hate to redemption & forgiveness.
You said it. People didn't like playing as Abby because we wanted to see Ellie win. We didn't care about Abby because she killed someone we liked. I'd say this is immature.
I really liked the added flashback with Joel explaining how he became a smuggler, it really clicked everything together with Joel's history and feels borderline canon.
When I had the idea, I dug into it, and was surprised that they’ve never answered who gave the soldier the order to kill Joel and Sarah. Maybe it’ll come up in 3?
@@KevinHelpUs it might and is a really good posibility it shows how he became numb just like Ellie did at the very end of the last of us 2
“Abby is dead,this is the part where I’m supposed to say I feel empty but I would be lying to myself.I finally feel awake like I can breathe again.and Joel nothing can change his death but maybe I can still do something that will make a difference”
Watch_Dogs
Watch dogs 1 was peak
I love aiden Pearce
Everyone else: "I don't want to kill the doctor!"
xQc with no facial expression: 5:49
Had me dying. 🤣☠️
I would Pay 10 times of The Last of Us Part II original price just to play your version of the Story. Truly Astonishing 🔥🔥❤️
We think the story could’ve been improved simply by adding that guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender who yells, “MY CABBAGES!” whenever his supply gets destroyed. It’s a lot like how people call out the names of whomever you just killed in game, but way funnier and lighthearted.
Sold. It's canon now.
Awesome. Also, this is probably the most likes we’ve ever received on a comment to date.
Is there one for the Scars who whistles out "MY CABBAGES!" as well?
ellie bumps into a jackson vegetable vendor and says the iconic line, while on the flipside abby does the exact same thing and the cabbage vendor says the same line. This sequence can also unironically serve as a tutorial on how to pick up items as you help with the mess you just caused
@ There’s so much looting in this game - it could work.
Lev tracking down the Jackson Five (Dinas baby counts) would’ve worked. I too hated the map showing their base lmao
"Jackson Five" 🤣
First, Joel "robbed" Ellie of the chance to save the world, then Abby "robbed" Ellie of the chance to forgive Joel. So after that Ellie goes after the revenge thinking that she hates Abby, but really she's just unable to forgive herself that she didn't forgive Joel before he died. In the end she's able to finally understand that and forgives herself, letting Abby go. That's how I read it.
@@skeezaworkan pretty much my interpretation too
That's my main issue with the story. I was upset Joel died but I was okay that he did. What I didn't like is how his murderers were just handed the man on a silver platter.
Joel has never been a relaxed guy, he knows people in the world hate him, he knows how to be smart.
Yet somehow he just gives his name to complete strangers? Doesn't even try to hide who he is all of a sudden? Tommy too like wth happened to these characters?
They were never that chill about giving their names.
@dash9641 I felt the same way too. I thought there were too many coincidences and I wanted to see what Abby would've done if she had no choice but to infiltrate Jackson. How would she do it, and would she have killed innocent people to get to Joel that could potentially start a war with Jackson.
Abby got her revenge and walked away with clean hands, apposed to Ellie who killed countless people who had nothing to do with Joel's death, then when she about to kill Abby, she let's her go?!!! Such a bizarre ending
@@dash9641 actually Tommy has always been this way he never was like his brother that’s what caused them to even split apart in the first place, I do agree about the Joel part but Joel’s not the one who gave the names Tommy is and think about the situation realistically you find a 19-20 year old girl all alone visibly shook from what has just occurred and now she’s alone with 2 grown male strangers, Tommy did the thing he would do and that’s to comfort and make her feel a little safer by introducing them to make things familiar and that’s the tragedy of it cause he incidentally causes his own brothers death. But I do agree it’s super coincidental and I also have a small problem with it.
@@smoke-o-time3913 you have to understand that Ellie’s mental was faltering throughout the story and you see that through things like the chance they get to go home to Jackson when they think they know where Tommy is but she decides to keep going to Abby even though she’s already killed almost all of Abby’s friends she keeps going, the game tries to make it as apparent as possible that Ellie is starting to do this for her own selfish desire rather than for Joel or for anything else. This caused her to have to kill all these people along the way and Abby’s part is that she did have to deal with killing and things like that on the way I understand the frustrations of the dumb coincidence that she ran into Joel but I also think that for 4 year she had to deal with knowing the identity of her fathers killer and not being able to find him plus she’s not the person her father would’ve wanted her to be and she starts to realize that later on in the game when she runs into lev and yara and begins to care for them when the day before she talked about killing kid seraphites and that it would be their fault but once she takes care of these kids her nightmares go away and she starts to finally have sleep filled nights without jolting up in the morning after 4 years it was the first time she got a good nights sleep, the game is all about perspective so saying that Abby didn’t go through anything to get to Joel isn’t fully correct
@@dash9641 one of the dumber criticisms for all the reasons other guy said. You’re literally making things up. What you said isn’t what happened
@@aidenwilliams2889 Bro what are you even talking about? That is literally what happened in the game.
Tommy gave out their names like idiots and Joel just went along with it despite that going against everything he's been shown to do up until then. We have already seen Joel is not stupid enough to fall for that that crap in the first game.
Joel legit called out a attempted ambush and even during the fall of humanity he was untrusting of people and refused to help a family stuck on a road asking for help. He legit told Tommy to keep driving.
You seem to be forgetting that part in your attempt to make me look like I don't know. That is the whole reason that ambush from Abby didn't work for so many people and why OP made it something Ellie would fall for instead because Joel just wouldn't after everything we have seen of him.
I'm genuinely shocked Joel hadn't already talked to Tommy about just handing out their real names like candy assuming everyone is friendly. Would of been an extremely important thing to talk about so the very thing that ends up getting Joel killed doesn't happen.
it's True that Revange doesn't bring Joel back and could cost a lot and you can Almost see it as Selfish Act but That's what Humans Are. Sometimes Humans do everything they can just for there own personal feelings and don't care if it's Right or Wrong.
It’s funny I never watched anyone play it to see their reaction to the end of the first one but I guess since I’m a parent I did NOT hesitate to kill the doctor like I walked in and just shot him so seeing everyone hesitate made me realize i was a lil too much like Joel while playing 😅😅
omg dude same like i never once second guessed or questioned his decisons. like i was like meh this kinda sucks i feel bad because the doctors aren't like, actively attacking me... but at the same time no fucking way would i let anyone harm my baby. not a moment of hesitation. i hate that part 2 retconned the hospital scene, super disappointing druckmann was trying to push a narrative of joel being some big bad awful guy when a lot of people would do the same.
Druckmann, if you watch this, hire this man as narrative lead on Part III, he knows his stuff.
Username checks out!
Yes, I agree. I love a closer looks version of the story and his version was awesome but even this version would still have the game at least at nine out of 10 because you’re not changing much of the story. The biggest improvement I’ve seen here was that Ellie had a hard time forgiving Joel, and Joel was still using his survival instinct, but Ellie wanted to call the shots and it ultimately got Joel killed that alone is a huge improvement to what we already got it must be a damn shame to have people who are fans of the last of us have better fan made ideas than the creator himself ain’t that some shit with that being said I give his perspective on the story changes five out of five stars
@@godzillazfriction what do you mean by that any other version of a story of the last of us content creators have posted has significantly been better than the original and my opinion I’m not seeking any validation I’m just complementing the UA-camr perspective which I like better than the creator of the last of us part two but if you wanna believe that, hey more power to you, it is what it is I don’t know how he explain it, but from what I watched in the video, Ellie makes a certain mistake which cost Joel his life, and that alone is more realistic than the story we originally got in the last of us part two because Joel would not fall for that very easily given what we have experience in the first game with him. Now I don’t know if you agree with that or not, but that’s my personal opinion but if you think I’m just seeking validation for my reason for commenting, I think you’re wrong on that. I got a life. I don’t need anybody’s validation, but it is what it is.
@ like I said, it’s my opinion whatever your perspective on it it’s fine I didn’t understand the me seeking validation part that you mentioned, but if that’s what you thought then you’re free to believe that. I just agree with the UA-camr and I commented on what he said in the video that’s it.
@@godzillazfrictionImagine being a legendary keyboard warrior that you intensely bait others for an online argument that doesn't need to be pushed further.
Chill dude.
The commenter had opinions and wanted to say it. They respected your opinion, and you can't do the same for them? They are not obligated in any way to answer your raging ego and have better things to do 😂
I've seen your other comments on this same video. Don't you have anything better to do than attacking people's opinion? Whether it's "disingenuous" or whatever, it's theirs. Not your business.
5:50 the contrast between his reaction and everyone else's combined with the blank expression on his face is what does it for me🤣🤣🤣
Xqc moment lmaoooo
@@thepeskyone One of the only times he's actually funny
@@Liam_Phoenix So true
About the thing with Abby almost killing Dina
About that she is pregnant
Ellie killed a pregnant woman too
Yeah she didn't know... but Abby doesn't know that...
Yeah its not "oh that makes it all okay and i like Abby now..."
but eh... wanted to bring it up
Wow. Never have I related to a video more in my life. Every single point you made, every thought, every rationalization, it was all perfect down to the last minute detail
I like how you wrote the story, but i think a reason for abbys part being halfway through the story is because of gameplay
You play as Ellie, not really knowing what youre getting into, what the wolfs are like, who the scars are, learning how to play the game
But as abby you already know how to play, you know how the scars are like, what some of their whistles mean, etc
And you generally understand how things flow more, same way an inexperienced survivor of a town who does patrols around, killing mostly infected, has to figure out things by themselves in this foreign QZ vs a trained soldier who has been fighting these scars for years,
That’s smart. I never thought about it that way. What a genius way for Naughty Dog to go about that.
@@TDOI332 arguably the story suffered on that (pacing, triggering endless comments about "forcing abby down everyone's throat"), so I don't know if I would consider it truly "genius"
I would label it genius if they found a way to make both work seemlessly
@@d34thnote79 I don't have a huge issue with the story, but then again I didn't wait 7 years to play the game so my situation may be different. I think it's cool that the experience of the player is shown through the game's characters. Like @bananabird735 said, "You play as Ellie, not really knowing what you're getting into... learning how to play the game. But as Abby you already know how to play."
@@TDOI332 As far as @d34thnote79's argument goes, the game was pretty seamless for me; and I did play the first game after they had remastered it, but I already knew the story from watching playthroughs. To your argument, there are several UA-camrs that, like you, played both games for the first time back-to-back, and every one of them massively enjoyed BOTH games.
Holy crap what a Herculean effort this was, and I was so compelled I listened to the end WAITING to hear what happened next, even though I know this story already! Man, you are an excellent storyteller and writer. I felt your themes and parallels so heavily, with each new reveal i could feel the gut punch it was. I understood where basically every character was coming from, and found myself empathizing with these people doing horrible things after horrible thing.
Absolutely incredible.
Oh wait. Cabbage.
Much better.
Cabbage is better! And thank you for your kind words! Yes, this was a big undertaking to sketch out and produce, but I was really hoping people would enjoy it. Appreciate you watching!
This is DEFINITELY a better story than what we got and it fixed a lot if the criticisms towards the game but I still think it judges Joel in a very unfair manner. Despite trying to give Ellie a mirror image of Joel's last choice, it still wasn't at par w what Joel's situation was. In Joel's case, there was a timer on Ellie's life. He had to act fast because any delay can cause Ellie's demise. The fireflies had BOTH of them held hostage while in Ellie's case, she was an outsider looking in with no threat being posed to her own safety. Joel was cornered between a rock and a hard place. It doesn't help that he never believed in the fireflies and was eventually fucked over by them. Let's not forget that this mission cost him his last partner, Tess, and wasn't even being given the payment they were promised nor the respect he deserved for going all the way from Boston to SLC. Painting Joel to be a bad guy for not choosing the pacisift route/"having empathy" when the entire firefly organization showed him NEITHER empathy nor respect is kinda fucked up imo. The fireflies, a group bombing QZs with no regard to civilians, was never a good group. Let's stop pretending that they ever were.
@@taeminislove also a tape in last of us 1 says the operation was a 90 percent chance of failure on Ellie. So she would have died for nothing
@@thegamingcook785 I mean how can you forget that? That's literally the twist of the entire game, you think Ellie is this really special kid that can save the world until you realize there have been dozen others that all been sacrificed with nothing to show for it
@@thechugg4372 I think you misunderstood something. Joel saying there are many more like Ellie is a lie. It is also stated in the next game, and is also why Ellie is mad at Joel. So no, not a twist…
THANK YOU
@@thegamingcook785 Do you have a link to that tape cause I don't recall it.
HOLY CABBAGE!!! I love how your version of this game fixed parts of the story and gives the player the choice to do what they think is right. Not many games do that. Please keep doing what you're doing!
Thank you, I shall!
My mother used to make stuffed cabbage. A Hungarian dish, using ground beef and rice wrapped in cabbage leaves. You stack them in a pot, then pour tomato soup over the top and cook for a few hours. I never appreciated it back then. I should try making it myself now.
I wasn't a big fan of the first game. Much like Joe Haldeman's or Robert Ludlum's books, they try to say violence is bad, then show all the awesome ways you can do it. It's hypocritical.
Your montage of the doctor's deaths is a great example. I empathize with the guy with the blowtorch most. More than anything, the characters may pay the price for your violence, but the fact that they suffer removes that burden from me as a player. Compare that to the later levels of Spec Ops: The Line, where the loading screens ask questions like, "How many Americans have you killed?" and "Are you proud of what you've done?" That game made me feel awful, especially as a veteran.
TLOU 2 was nothing more than the exploitation of violence with a thin plot to tie it all together. I feel like the characters go where they go and do what they do because of what the writers wrote, not because of human motivation. I understand why Joel did what he did in the first game, despite how petty and shortsighted it was. I would probably do the same. He feels like a human. Living in the post-apocalypse and burning an enormous amount of resources and personnel for a petty grudge doesn't seem like rational thinking.
I guess if I were the writers of the game, I would have just told another story with different characters in their world. How is the disease affecting England? Canada? Australia? Heck, how about Hawaii? There were a million other stories to tell, but they chose to return to the well and write a story that everyone has problems with to some degree. Everyone's head canon would probably be better.
Great work. I wouldn't alter a thing about your changes. This definitely makes me want to read your book. Drop the title one of these days. I go through about 50 novels a year, so I can always use something new to read.
As far as other games to fix the plot, I can suggest PREY (2017). I love the ending, but it is sloppy and a lot of people didn't. Clive Barker's Jericho was incomplete and ended in a horrible way, so it could definitely use some love. The last would be my beloved Spec Ops: The Line. The simple question would be this: how would you fix the ending of Joseph Conrad's Heart Of Darkness? It's in my top ten of games and has incredible writing, but I'd love your take.
Keep up the good work, Kev!!!
That dish sounds very good. Mm I can imagine the rice either being white, brown, or Mexican 😋😋
Oh, I hadn't considered Prey yet, but that's a great idea!
Ooo boy, this is gonna be good.
Really cool video, watched the whole thing
I disagree with a lot of things, for example you say that the motivation wasn't clear for Ellie, but I think it was, she and we as players want to seek revenge for Joel, that was enough for me
And Abby's story worked really well for me, at the farm when Ellie decided to pursue Abby again, I was so sad, I wanted her to drop the revenge. At the final battle I was rooting for Ellie to spare Abby.
That said, you made some changes that turned the story less faulty, specially at the beginning with the whole "Joel wouldn't be careless like that" thing
This game is so special to me. The years leading up to it, I blindly bought into the hate mob on youtube about it. But something compelled me to play it myself once it came out, and I ended up loving it, I've never been more immersed in a game's world and the ending had me thinking about it for months.
So when i saw this video i felt hesitant, but I have to say, I agree with your changes, I think they are really good. I already believed the story was much better going back and forth between Ellie and Abby, I even made saves at certain spots so i could play it that way.
Anyway I really like your ideas and I secretly hope now that Season 2 of the show might do things similarly.
I loved the game people still don’t move on from Joel there was never no quote on quote bad guy or good guy or main character people can change it and some things sound interesting tho
2020 empathy simulator is the greatest name for this “game” lmao
I just want to correct a detail. The Ellie revenge journey happens few days after Joels death as Tommy asked Ellie to wait him for one day. There's absolutely anything that suggests it took months to Ellie and Tina to follow Tommy.
I think he was referring to the time it took them to travel from Wyoming to Seattle, not how long it took Ellie and Dina to leave
To clarify, GuvNuhh is correct. It took Dina and Ellie months to arrive in Seattle (hence the seasons changing), but the decision to leave to Seattle to get revenge was only a few days after Joel's death.
I would think it took maybe 1-2 months to get from Jackson to Seattle. The seasons changing isn’t as much of an indicator since Seattle doesn’t get snow, but it does have days of torrential rain followed by nice sunny days during the winter…like what you see in the game. There was also a newer journal entry when you arrive in Seattle about Dina getting sick “a few weeks back” and if I remember correctly, when Dina admits to Ellie that she’s pregnant Ellie says something of the same effect, that they could’ve turned back weeks ago.
And the girl math time indicator…Dina says she was suspicious but not sure when they left Jackson so she’d probably just missed a period (6 weeks along is usually when your spidey senses start tingling). She’s just starting to have first trimester sickness, not showing (which usually happens around 4 months) and still fits her jeans! So it couldn’t have been that long since they left Jackson.
That was a great way to explain the story and also give players the choice to choose the story they wanted to see unfold during the course of the game you did a great job and get a 10/10 on how you choose to FIX the story!
I've watched damn near every TLOU video essay (at least ones that aren't made by annoying cry babies) and this is only the second one that has mentioned the Israel-Palestine conflict that inspired Neil Druckmann. Mad respect for not being scared to talk about what is, in my opinion, unavoidable to mention when discussing the story of this game.
I was honestly nervous about even mentioning that, but I’m glad you appreciated it!
a re edit of recut is literally perfect ive been talking to my brother for years about how we would achieve it
I was planning on making a whole video discussing how I think they could've fixed the story in this game but now that you released this video I don't think I'd be able to top it. Awesome job Kevin, you've earned yourself a sub :D
Glad to have you here, welcome!
A last supper introduction with the dark souls boss fight indicator sounds ingenious dude
Imagine this being a mod when the pc version comes out.
I've watched quite a few videos "fixing" this game's story and honestly didn't expect much coming into this video but man you killed it. Genuinely would love to see this version of the story somehow
I had no idea there were so many out there! (I have watched The Closer Look’s, but that’s it.)
@@KevinHelpUs yeah a lot them don't really explicitly state "fixing" in the title but that's pretty much what they try to do
You are so right about that, certainly a more engaging story, which is now making me jealous of what we could’ve have as a sequel. Well done 🎉
@ yeah bruh sneezed that whole comment 😛😛😛
@@jowrocha2448 This dudes made 4-5 comments that I’ve found on this video crying about it lmao
Time for some cabbages
Honestly, the melding of the stories to make them more precise or believable like it was in the first chapter. You phrased it in a manner where it makes sense.
The main problem that I’ve always felt with the game is what you addressed briefly. That we spent countless hours and time with Ellie and Joel and maybe an hour at most with Abby before takes Joel on a golf pro tour. I thought a way to address this (along with massive world building along the way) is just to ignore Ellie and Joel for the sequel for most of the game. We go in depth with Abby’s world, a world post apocalypse beyond Joel and Ellie. The game remains vague throughout on her motivation for revenge for her father, sprinkling details along the way. She defies her leaders with a small group to follow a developing lead. Then plot separated her from her group, but fate encounters her with Ellie. And strangers are working together to survive. As the game settles, Ellie and Abby separate. But Ellie drops a patrol map. A map that leads back to her home - to Jackson. The flashbacks come and her motives are revealed to us as the viewer. Then she comes back to her group and tells them that they found where he’s living. And that she can finally get revenge on Joel. And the game ends.
This saves time and confusion with time skipping building Abby up. We can stay for the most part in the present, with Joel flashbacks through the game as they are. Joel can die in the beginning and there would be more conflict with us as the viewer because we’ve had so much time with both Abby and Ellie and their stories. We can feel the empathy that Druckmann wanted. Then we can go through the story with more precise story melding as you described it and it would be more feeling of empathy for everyone because we are mowing down people we’ve spent time with.
I don’t know. With the series coming up to season 2, who knows if there will be changes. It’d be crazy if Neil Druckmann sees this and implements this in the series.
I don’t think he’d change it based on my video, but I’m real curious to see if they implemented any fan feedback from 2 into the show. 2 months to go!
Hey, I don't have any cool ideas, I just wanted to say that I enjoyed the video throughout. The pacing, the way you form your arguments or show how the game has done "it", all really good
Most of all, I love how your idea for the story (without changing anything major, though that's a shame) ties in perfectly. It's really impressive, how you can wrap your head around the story with such comprehension
I like your rewrite of the beginning but also
the scene where joel dies is the first scene where we see joel and ellie together in one room
and it is heartbreaking
and also this scene feels different after every flashback
I think ellies obsession with the revenge is mostly anger at herself
she didn't forgive him he died before she had a chance to forgive him she was robbed of that chance
at santa barbara she doesn't care for abby or revenge (in the diary she asks herself why is she even here) she just thinks she can could forgive herself for not forgiving joel while he was alive if only she can get rid of the reason she didn't have the time
and when she let her go its ellie forgiving herself
what i actually don't like about the ending is how ellie loses everything while abby loses nothing (sure her friends are dead but she would have parted ways with them ether way so it doesn't really mater)
ellie loses her family, connection to BOTH of her parents (her mothers knife is somewhere in the sea), two fingers, her friends
thats the way I interprited the ending
Great video! Just one adjustment I'd make, specifically at the end. The story has to be linear. In order for the possibility of a 3rd game (whatever that may be based on what we know so far).
Ellie should spare abby no matter what. The first TLOU game gave us no choice we had to kill the doctor, likewise, we should have to spare abby.
Maybe instead of the ending flashback with ellie FORGIVING Joel, it should be about, UNDERSTANDING Joel. If this story is supposed to be about ellie walking in joels shoes, then instead of outright forgiving him, just understanding him should take priority. Ellie isn't Joel, she would've absolutely had died if given the choice, but she never TRULY understood why he lied and did what he did.
It would still be controversial, but at the very least, we'd get a better reason WHY Ellie lets abby go (really, saving her). Ellie ending the circle of violence, thereby saving both lev and Abby, is more her character than killing Abby.
Joel would kill abby in a heartbeat, but he isn't ellie.
Ellie killing all of abby's crew to protect dina is within her character, but killing abby when it doesn't mean anything (especially when abby has lev, who'd be left with no one as a child, resembling ellie in a way) isn't within her character.
Ellie would die to save that world, joel would kill it to save ellie. And that is what's left up for the audience to think about. Was both Joel and Ellie justified in their decisions at the end of the game? Joel saving ellie, and Ellie sparing Abby.
Those are just my thoughts! Great analysis, watched it through and through. Great idea to mesh both ellie and Abby's stories together instead of keeping them seperate! Awesome video!
Thanks! And agree that Abby will likely be back in 3. Calling it now, she and Ellie will have to reluctantly work together to combat a greater threat.
You sound waaaaayyyy too professional. Like I'm watching an IGN review!
I'm working on it!
This is the best re-write of tlou2 I’ve ever seen, I’d happily pay for this.
We need to change it so that Maria doesn't let Ellie and Dina leave Jackson, because that moment character assassinates Maria. We have to change it so that Ellie and Dina sneak out during the night. Her defining characteristic in the first game was her dedication in keeping her people safe, so for her to send out two teenage girls (one of them being single most emotionally compromised member of her community, who would most likely just join Tommy in the quest for revenge) who are far less experienced than Tommy is, to go and get him back, is completely out of character. We have to change it so that Ellie and Dina sneak out during the night.
I think the two campaign solution would work. Doing a straight revenge game of Abby and Elle on two separate campaigns.
Joel snarls about how he saved Elle and he would do anything to keep her safe to Abby's group before Abby begins the trap. Then have Elle scream that it's her fault and beg Abby to kill her to find the cure. When Joel sees her ready to kill Elle, Joel yells to Abby he killed her Father in brutal detail. That is when Elle's campaign begins.
For Abby, show how the fireflies collapse after Joel's attack against them and start her campaign there.
Each Campaign, the player chooses if the respective enemy lives or dies.
They both mirror each other.
0:18 ive seen 4 different better versions that id deem better then what was released, my fav was one from a video called last of us desecrating a grave one more time
I haven't watched that one yet, I'll check it out!
@KevinHelpUs wait rereading what I wrote makes it seem I didn't like this, nah I like this one too, giving the player a choice at the end even if niel wouldn't like what people would choose is super important and treats the message very seriously
could you let Abby go...
I cant
Your version of Abby is WAY more understandable, they definitely rushed the story no matter how much Neil wants to deny it. Many of the major issues can easily be fixed. It's difficult because Naughty Dog is trying to tackle a discussion as Impossible as solving world hunger, racism, or poverty. while attempting to take a high road with lazy writing. Great work as always!
@@haesome8613 Whichever way you want to cut it, this story is more advanced and well-written with subtext and subtle foreshadowing than any other game. It gets so much slack for existing in (or trying to live up to) the same standard set by the first game.
I commend this game for its never-seen-before representation in a AAA game (almost unanimously hated by the “gamer” crowd). I also commend it for not taking the money-grab route of bending to the will of the audience and producing another half-baked re-work of the first game’s dynamics. People would have been happy with this, but it would have been completely inauthentic and much more deserving of criticism. Joel needed to die and to make that decision is a feat that I have not seen in the AAA game industry.
@@kkickks That’s sure is a lot of words without saying anything lmao. TLOU2 fans will always instantly jump to glazing when their game is criticized istg. Joel’s death isn’t the problem, the problem is the fact that it was rushed, stupidly executed, and committed by an unlikable psychopath that the game tries to make you empathize with. Representation means jack sht, couldn’t care less about it if the story was good, but tacking on representation to an already defunct story doesn’t suddenly make it any better. The representation wasn’t “never seen before” either, games like Life Is Strange had tons of it way before TLOU2 ever reared its ugly head. You know what’s the worst part though? There was something there. It would be so easy to just dismiss the game but I can tell from playing it over three times now that there were people who made this game with passion, but that passion was squandered by holding the importance of a message over the importance of an actual story
@@Cogito-r6n Thanks for the snark in your take, makes you real likable. (EDIT: just scroll down… you will see how insufferable this guy is… like 1000+ comments)
I dont defend this game with my life, I just like to point out how literally no other game’s story is held to this standard. Look at any other game. The writing is dogsht and stiff in comparison. The only major issue I have is the pacing.
Also, joel’s death wasn’t “rushed”. it was abrupt to reflect the brutal, unpredictable world. Nothing is more realistically brutal than the death of a loved one before you got to make peace with them. Abby’s arc was divisive, sure, but her perspective was an ambitious, risky way to tell a AAA story, even if it didn't land for everyone. I think any AAA game that pushes boundaries is worth commending. Do you really want more formulaic Far Cry, Assassin’s Creed or Call of Duty?
As for representation, Life is Strange isn’t close to AAA, so it’s not comparable. The blockbuster scale, budget and audience reach of tlou2 make its representation a much bigger deal (especially to the insular and generally disdainful gamer crowd).
Now, what I find interesting is that you called Abby an unlikable psychopath. How do you feel about Ellie then? She’s just as ruthless, if not more so, throughout the game. Do her actions feel more justified to you? I personally think Ellie lost her humanity
@ I don’t intend to be likable I intend to make points about how the story is flawed, it makes my eyes roll when people praise the game for stuff like its “representation” or its “boldness” rather than the value of its story and thus I refute these claims. Many other games are held to this standard, if the next god of war game was about how Kratos was just randomly killed by a common enemy and we were expected to follow Atreus as if he were the mc people would get mad about that, rightfully so. People got mad at the game because it ripped away everything that made the first game good and shoved its corpse down their throats. As pointed out in the video, Joel stupidly tells random strangers where they live and what his name is, something that the Joel established in the first game would never do considering the fact that he knows ambush traps very well and could sniff out a setup from a mile away. It’s not realistically brutal, it’s just dumb. I’m not saying a game can’t be different I’m saying it still has to be well written, “pushing boundaries” means nothing if the pushing of boundaries is the only thing of substance in which the story contains, which TLOU2 barely pushed boundaries in the first place. What I want is more Ghost of Tsushima, Cyberpunk 2077, God Of War, etc. games that actually push boundaries and define what a game could and should be through their beautifully crafted stories. Life is strange is triple A lmao, it got tons of rewards and Dontnod Entertainment is no small company. Also throwing representation into the faces of people doesn’t get them to like it, surrounding it with actual good content does. Abby is an unlikable psychopath because she beats an old man(who saved her life) to death in front of his adopted daughter and by the end of the game almost kills a pregnant woman on purpose. Ellie has way more humanity than her, crying over people she killed like Nora or Mel, letting Abby go at the end, tbh she was way more merciful than I think she should have been. If I were writing the story, I would make her get progressively comfortable with killing people with Dina getting progressively uncomfortable with her behavior, culminating in Ellie’s realization that her mission for revenge is futile. This would also play into the Santa Barbara section because Ellie doesn’t go to Santa Barbara for revenge, but for redemption. She frees Abby and goes back to Jackson satisfied with her actions and demonstrating her character growth
@@godzillazfriction Nice way of saying you’re just another mindless fanboy and didn’t even watch the video lmao. If you’re going to say anything say something worth my time or go back to being a sheepish drone
It would have been a challenge but I truly think with a few more flashbacks per side these two 3 day journeys could have been 2 separate games. Market the last of us 2 as a new story, (don't falsify trailers to make it look like the game people want). Start with Abby, yes I mean that. Start with Abby's story from the moment she wakes up in the stadium. There is a war going on she's heavily invested in, but they're losing the tides are shifting and casualties are piling up. Same 3 days, same sniper sequence, the first clue/hint that people from Jackson are involved should be at the conclusion of the sniper scene. Game ends when Abby confronts Ellie/Jessie/Tommy in the theater, until that moment you didn't even know Ellie was there.
Game 2 starts exactly like part 2, Joel dies, you gear up for Seattle, same 3 days as Ellie.
The problem with Abby going second like the live game is you can't forget what she does, you can't be too invested in her story because she killed Joel. If you played nearly 8-10 hours of Abby in her story BEFORE knowing that she killed Joel a month prior you WOULD be invested in her story, with a few more flashbacks you would understand why her and her friends NEEDED to go to Jackson.
The game was slow, but certain story beats were still rushed, you could really flesh out the dialogue, the regrets (or lack of regrets) in every chapter if you had the time and space to do so.
Much like Ellie couldn't sleep during the Santa sabra chapter i couldn't after finishing the game. The one thing i thought about is how this story's layout/structure could have made a much more significant impact on us as a player. and how certain events completely eliminated any build up it had. Thank god somone did it before i drove myself insane trying to do it myself.
Out of Abbys friends I have to say I like Owen and Manny. They have their funny side.
you just turned the last of us into the first of them 🔥🔥🔥
I love this.
@@KevinHelpUs no girl thats not a compliment you completely changed the game into something utterly unrecognisable. This 'making the game better' is just erasing any intentional message the game tried to convey. Your media literacy is dead.
@chaosgonewrongg What was erased?
I have seen dozens of reviews and critiques on this game both positives and negatives and this is the FIRST TIME I have heard that enemies communicate via Whistling!
But that’s like - their whole thing!
Joel was 100% justified. You can't cure fungus.
@@A_Humble_Writer tell that to our various creams.
Doesn't matter, he believed it would work
@@gametapefriendsonline that kills the fungus. How was getting access to more of the fungus gonna do that?
You can't use this argument because Joel didn't care about the fungus. He just happened to be accidentally correct
@projectpems8304 but the game used the arguement that since the Fireflies where accidently correct that matters
I think it should've been this way with Part 2 to improve it.
We should've started playing Abby at the prologue, and then we forwarded it to Joel and Ellie, Abby gets lost by her friends later gets saved by Joel and Tommy from the infected she gets brought back to Jackson Ellie gets back too, so then Abby is helping Joel, Ellie, and were having flashback scenes of Abby tracking down Joel for Years and developing the reason why she's after Joel the whole story, at the end it would be like Joel, and Ellie, are trapped by Abby and her friends, and Abby is forcing Joel to get straight out answers out of his mouth, the way how Joel dies would be Ellie is wounded he's protecting her and he kills all of Abby's friends by himself in a gunfight except Abby, she shoots him in the chest, kills him, and she escapes. Then, the upcoming Part III would just be about Ellie going after Abby to kill her. Good video, though, on explaining it.
i liked the normal game, i always thought that abby's half couldve been better, but was still good. in all seriousness with all of your fixes i think this game wouldve been just as good or maybe even better than the first.
nothing needs fixing. its a masterpiece from beginning to end
This statements will gather haters with zero ability to read past surface level
The game is good. Its just the pacing is off. They should have went back and forth between abby and ellie. Instead of doing one oart then taking us to the other.
Cabbage! Great take, and very well thought out. Never considered how completely separating Abby and Ellie’s segments took out a lot of the momentum of the story. Happy I was able to watch this one without worrying about spoilers! (I still haven’t been able to watch the Bioshock one because I have only completed the first game so far 😅)
GuvNuhh! Thanks so much for watching the whole thing, and get on with playing Infinite! I have my rants about the game, but it's definitely worth playing.
@@KevinHelpUs I will get there! Got a little burnt out because I didn’t just play through Bioshock, I 100%ed it 😅 so I fell off shortly into my first play of Bioshock 2
I've been waiting for something like this!
So have I!
It would be awesome if they could mod the game to play in the rearranged order you explained, hell they could add the flashback scenes and other lines you added with AI voice clones and could use assets to create a short gameplay segment to it, that would be awesome, I've seen modders do a lot of cool stuff, this would be awesome
I actually loved this game because of the gameplay and extreme attention to detail.
Naughty Dog is the "GTA" of on rails stories. If they ever wanted to do an open world attempt, I would get it just to see how they handle the scope and especially the story coming together with the environment freedom.
I have a feeling with "the Seattle section" they wanted to dip some toes but couldn't fully commit to it in the ps4/pro timeline, so they avoided a series bullet by doing it the way they know best and do an open world under a new project.
I speculate (with no proof at all) they used factions 2 as a smart way to R&D with a project they never intended on doing and collecting loads of PS5/Pro assets and got a feel for the capabilities without fully committing to a full never ending project and got the opprotunity to bank up lots of Part 3 assets. It's kind of brilliant, and the open world maps and data must be golden for them if they want to be the next GTA.
Imagine an open world GTA style but with a Naughty Dog story. Or a GTA with a RDR story in GTA.
They got to tell a great story without a Trevor guy to give us permission to be a "loveable murdering" P.O.S
Maybe a "Donny Basco" type story who either flips to the darkside only to come back and sacrifice himself to save his best friend...
or full on darkside choice and you keep playing and run the empire for a day or a week all only to die to your most trusted best friend who is actually Internal affairs you never knew was a cop watching you so close he becomes your most trusted because the stress is too much you need a bro but also can't show weakness to the boss.
This best friend was brought in only because sometime at the start, you begin to show a "sign" of changing and a red flag moment, and you reap the fruit whatever you choose to sew.
Glorious send-off with a 21 gun salute with dress blues as a cop with honor...
or a real cop kills you resisting arrest because you need an epic Tony Montana moment, and you die like a dog by your best friend, the guy, all along.
Well, that's my long-winded opinion and great video, bro.
This channel has the best jokes lol, Great video
Great video “ cabbage”
To me I felt the pacing was off in the game and I would have liked a portion to be you play as Ellie for a bit till you get the reveal that she’s back in Utah at the hospital. Would have been an oh no kind of feeling and built more suspense knowing that she’s about to find out the truth. I also agree that Ellie and abby should have had a section where they work together at first. I felt it was also dumb luck l, Abby should have had to work a little bit for it, even if it meant going into Jackson. It felt unearned imo. I still love the game
Cabbage!
Ok so here is my version that I had been brainstorming for a long time now. I would start the alternate version from the marketing.
No mention of Joel an Eli in the marketing. Pitch the entire thing as a new story with Abby as the new playable character. Give the entire first half to Abby's relationship with her dad and make us root for them just like we did for Joel and Eli. By the mid of the game Abby's story comes to a closer with the Hospital shoot out. Jump cut to the part where eli comes to the Hospital where she finds out about what Joel did and there both Abby and Eli meets for the first time. Then the story goes pretty much as you said. Imagine the shock and panic build up the players would have as slowly being to understand they are going to experience what Joel did at the end of LOU 1 from other side.
Cabbage! Holy moly, that'd be an incredible reveal. I'd play the hell out of that!
100% agree with you on the final act. This is actually what would make Part II complete in my opinion - to agree or disagree with Joel in Part I by making the decision as Ellie in the finale. Great vid as always!
How would Ellie be able to beat Abby in the last fight if Abby is in full strength?
yoo cabbage. I agree with most of your choices, god especially the constant switching instead of killing the pace. They literally got it right on Left Behind, I never understood why do it so weird on the second game. I also loved your choices to make all the abby-side characters compelling. I'm from the bunch that came to like/forgive abby fast, but her suppot characters felt kinda empty on the original.
Cabbage! I think I wanted more time with the supporting characters. We get next to nothing from Nick and Leah, we know very little about how they all relate to each other, what their history in Salt Lake City was, so if the game wants us to reconsider our vengeance against them, they have to give us some human traits to latch onto.
I think the biggest reason why this game got so much back lash at launch was more of the fact that some dipshit ex-dev decided to leak and spoil the entire plot ofvthe game months before it even was going to be launched. Also one of the trailers presented the game like it was Ellie getting revenge for Dina since they showed Joel coming out of nowhere to help Ellie.
The game didn't get leaked by an ex-dev. That was a narrative spun by haters to make it look like the devs weren't happy with the game. The person who leaked the story was some random 19 year old kid from Poland or something who was a fan and wanted the game to be released early. So he thought that if he leaked everything, naughty dog would be forced to release the game, which wasn't possible because it wasn't finished at the time.
The others being the game itself, the response to criticism and the Streisand effect.
Even if that was true, I don't think narrative leaks hurt things as much as people think. I heard that same arguement with My Hero Academia. I don't see how learning the narrative and ending earlier does anything but causes the hate to show up earlier
How exactly do leaks cause backlash? No one's complaining about the leaks. People are complaining about poor writing and pacing.
It wasn't the leaks themselves, it was what the leaks showed us.
this was way better than what we got. The fact that we didn't get the choose to end Abby or not made the game felt pointless.
And it could lead to multiple endings.
couldve been cool but the ending is great as is
@3ggPankak3s na man i disagree
Here’s my rewrite for Joel’s death. Abby tries to spring her trap on Joel and Tommy, but the teleporting dead barge in and interrupt like they usually do. That gives Joel and Tommy a chance to make a break for it. But being cornered by Abby’s friends on one side and a horde of the infected on the other, you as the player are forced to try fighting or sneaking your way out. But Abby is an inevitable boss fight no matter what. The Malenia, Blade of Miquella of TLOU2 that will make the player’s/Joel’s death feel actually earned and well fought.
For HBO, well just wait and see who lives and who dies. Bill in game lives. Bill in TV show dies.
Here's an easy way to fix it let people choose if they want to kill Abby or not
OOF. MY CABBAGES
consider me.... Compelled. You're really good at this.
Thank you for your cabbage!
The show will most certainly handle things a lot better. the UA-cam channel A Closer Look pointed out how it felt as if TLOU had a polished second draft with Season 1. I agree entirely with most points in this video!
I liked A Closer Look’s video on this too!
Idk about the alternative ending exploration theme, but I did 100% love the sum up of the in-game story, bringing up details which might have skipped many people who played this game / followed it's story.
I always like to hear peoples takes on TLOU2. I dont think ill ever understand why people are so critical of the game though. This game isnt Uncharted, you are supposed to feel each kill, each act of brutality. Its sort of the entire point of the game, to make you think. Just because its a game doesnt mean its supposed to inherently be a good time. Its just another medium to tell a story. Walking simulators are not what I would call "FUN" to play, but I still play tons of them. I am there for the story and the environment. Sometimes even just the mood or feeling. I think most people just dont get this game. The only real critique I have of the game isnt not humanizing Abby more, and I feel like they could have changed the order of events a little more. We should have been in the dark for awhile as to why Joel isnt around, and what Ellie is doing in the first place. I think some re ordering and slight pacing changes would have made a huge difference. Tell me how Ellie killing Abby would have made anything better? People that say that really dont get the plot. Violence = more violence, at some point the cycle has to stop.
Id add the avatar cabbage merchant at the end. When they are fighting they push over the cart and keep gojng
Love it, cabbage merchant confirmed.
My version of last of us 2 starts with us seeing Ellie and Joel living a peaceful life in Jackson and we find out that Ellie has accepted Joel’s lie. But things change when Joel and Tommy go out on patrol where they are separated by the blizzard. During the storm Tommy is captured and killed being mistaken as Joel by the WLF, this of course prompts both Ellie and Joel to gather a small group to hunt down all members involved with Tommy’s murder.
During the expedition through Seattle Joel and another group member are separated from Ellie and the rest and pass through an old firefly holdout in where the group member finds an old tape recorder not only revealing Ellie immunity but the events that transpired at the hospital Joel swiftly kills the group member before he can’t tell anyone else.
While making their way through Seattle Joel and Ellie’s group are separated once again but as Joel is making his way through Seattle he encounters a rat king and is bitten by it infecting him, simultaneously Ellie learn the truth from Nora about what actually happened at the hospital. When Joel and Ellie reunite Ellie is obviously furious at Joel and goes on her own path to kill Abby but is captured by Abby. Abby uses Ellie as bait to lure Joel and the two have a fight to the death where in the end a weakened Joel is able to get the upper hand and the player is given a choice either spare Abby or to kill her
Cabbege
The first game was so memorable for me and my brother (who passed away in 2019), I have the same name as Joel, and I remember that even though I was a young teenager, I cried at the death of Joel's daughter in the first minutes of the campaign.
Seeing these stories being so disrespected by these pseudo screenwriters, full of ego, who think they can improve everything, in fact they can't create anything original, but love to ruin universes that were previously established with so much love like Star Wars, The Witch and Lord of the Rings... Makes me angry.
And my problem wasn't Joel's death, but how they did it.
excellent video! And great job managing to make this mess acceptable.
Cabbage! I agree that I don't have a problem with a shocking death for Joel - I admit, I was sucked right in when I played 2 originally, but it felt like they tore down a character we loved in service of a new story rather than giving him the sendoff he deserved. Yes, it served Abby's story, but it felt so meaningless the player that I think the audience rightly turned on them.
Okay, that's a rant and a half. You clearly have issues to work on and through.
"Seeing these stories being so disrespected by these pseudo screenwriters, full of ego, who think they can improve everything, in fact they can't create anything original, but love to ruin universes that were previously established with so much love like Star Wars, The Witch and Lord of the Rings... Makes me angry."
Have YOU ever tried writing something? Because there is one truth - nothing is truly original, and nothing ever has been original. It's all just old spins on older material, be it from other movies, games, books and even real life events. Even being inspired by something means that it the product isn't original. And once you get rid of that mindset of "creating something original", you'll probably be living a happier life.
@terancetan5503 Creations will always be inspired by something, my problem is with screenwriters who use works that are not theirs, to spread their political and social vision.
The writers of the last season of The Witch literally said they didn't like the books and that they could do a better job... We've already seen the result of that.
Adaptations are necessary, but they must be done correctly, with development. Nowadays they just change a character's color and sexuality, put that as their entire personality and expect the audience to accept it with open arms.
@@drede_Ops I think you mean The Witcher. The Witch is a great horror movie by Robert Eggers. Next time, you probably want to check what you write. Not that it matters since I'm not interested in The Witcher in the first place.
Also, your argument makes no sense. The works that inspire creators usually aren't theirs to begin with - Get Out was inspired partly by the Stepford Wives, but Jordan Peele and Ira Levin have no relation to each other, and the movie is told with an African-American perspective and twist to, as you say, "spread a political and social vision". And yet, it is a good movie.
The same thing can be said for Annihilation (which changed the races of the main characters), and Blackkklansman and even Do the Right Thing (both of which feature heavy racial and political themes). Not to mention Alex Garland's Civil War, which is basically a critique of 2010s America, featuring concerns of democratic decline and increased political polarisation. And all of them are well-received. Need I also throw Dune Part 1 in there, which changed the gender of one of the characters but was well-received regardless.
If you think "changing a character's colour and sexuality, putting that as their entire personality and expecting the audience to accept it with open arms" is the worst thing about movies nowadays, you're living in a fantasy and need to evaluate your perspective.
@@terancetan5503 You are correct, I meant The Witcher. English is not my first language, so I ask for understanding if I end up writing other words wrong.
As you mentioned, these films are inspired by other works but bring something new, development and reflection.
Civil War was inspired by the plot format shown in Apocalypse Now. But it creates something new, presents a different story.
This is different from what I'm rightly criticizing, The Witcher, The Acolyte, Secret Invasion, The Rings of Power... They don't care about the base material and the result of this focus on spreading their ideology results in bad works. That's simply what I wanted to say.
We see the character Isaac in the anime Castlevania, his race was modified, but they created a great story for him that brought a beginning, development and conclusion. Most of the things we see today in these productions are characters that start and end the film in the same way.
Cabbage.
Well one thing i thought would have been a pretty good ending is the following:
Ellie finds Abby strung up by the rattlers just like the real game. Abby mentions something about Lev and Ellie sees that Lev is tied up too. Ellie tralizes Lev is innocent in all of this and doesn't deserve this punishment and she cuts Lev down. However she takes one last look at Abby and without saying anything Ellie picks up Lev and leaves, leaving Abby to die.
Lev wakes up on the boat as Ellie drives the boat away. Lev asks what happened and Ellie explains that she saved him. Lev asks where Abby is and Ellie says.
"Abby was already dead when I found you. I tried to help but there was nothing i could do. She’s gone, I'm sorry."
After a while Lev thinkd to himself and asks.
"Was Abby really dead when ypu found me?"
To which Ellie replies "she was gone long before i got there." Then lev says "swear to me that's true."
Without hesitation Ellie shrugs and says "i swear"
And lev responds with a simple "ok" and we cut to credits.
I thought about this! I cut it for time, but I was thinking up what endings would work depending on your choices, and I was debating on Ellie taking Lev. The one question I couldn’t resolve was why Lev would stay with Ellie, even if Abby was really dead. We know why Ellie stayed with Joel even if she doubted him, but Lev has every reason not to trust Ellie. If we could make it work, that would have been great.
Cabbage , I liked the original story for this game ,somehow it did make sense to me but that’s a personal opinion not fact . Good video and I do agree with you and am impressed by your changes.
Thanks so much for watching!
Even the simple change as having you swapping between their stories as you progress through the game would've helped keep the momentum up, and by the time Abby gets to the theater, you know both stories. I wouldve been more invested in Abby's story if it was laid out that way.
What i personality found frustrating was getting to the cliff hanger, and then the game takes me back to show me Abbys story, but at that moment i just wanted to hurry up and get back to the cliff hanger which made me want to rush through her story and didnt care for her character as much. It was a struggle to even continue after the cliff hanger because i felt it was taking far too long to get back. By the time I got to the ending, I didn't really care who lives or dies. Just end the story already!
Nice vid!
It’s wild how if you just removed the reset and did NOTHING ELSE, how much the game would improve.
@KevinHelpUs totally agree! Neil and the team at ND are very talented with their writing, and I do appreciate them trying to do something different, but I think the way they chose to structure this particular story really hurt the pacing and ultimately, it just missed the mark for me personally. But I prefer your version much better 😅
i love this and honestly this is amazing and i would love it and play it enjoy it but its not how its supposed to go i still think i wouldnt change a thing in the last of us 2 the game is set up perfectly and i have to agree with most of the people out there it isnt the ideal situation because its not suposed to the first game is about love and the second is about revenge its not suposed to be a happy ending and i love that about this game it took you down a path of hate and revenge in the begenning of the last of us 1 we see joel lose his daughter and we see him many years later as a man numb to the world we dont see what happend for a reason because its simmaler to Ellie's path the second game is like what we didnt see in the first game when KevinHelpUs said that joel got his revenge for his daughter i was 100% in agreement that he did some messed up things but just like Ellie in seattle he was left haunted again this game isnt supposed to be the good ending becuase its setting up Ellie to be the hero in the 3rd game (or the last one depending how many they make) Ellie made the "right choices" in this game because it sets character development for the next game i dont know whats gonna happen in the next game but it will lead to Ellie being the hero i have ideas what might happen but i think Naughty dog already has it figured out it may be Ellie sacrificing her to make the greater good just like the ending we didnt see in the first game or it could be that she makes amends and creates this new bond of love just like joel did with Ellie because as everyone agrees here the Last of us is about unconditional love seeing the end of the last of us 2 shows this perfectly
that was the main part of the thing i wanted to say with changing the times in the story having it mixed i can also see where that comes from but it isnt right because in writting it gives us a break in the story which is definatly needed after the suspense it cuts back to day one with abby the game knows WE want to just go back and see what happens... but it doesnt let us for a good reason it alows the player to do something we dont like again! seeing abby it helps us realise shes not much different from Ellie and this is showed perfectly in this video where they do the exact same thing waking up having to deal with a little problem with the love stuff ***PETTING THE DOG*** and the rest this shows us that they both are going through the same thing and that this change is needed we see that Abby doesnt kill Dina she wants to move on instead of the cycle of revenge growing and growing she stops and walks away showing she cares about Lev and just stopping the cycle of revenge
Sorry for the text wall but this is the reason why this story isnt about love in this part of the last of us i do like the adaptation and it is what the player wants but i can assure you that the last of us 3 will give us this it will fix all the wrongdoing thank you for reading my ted talk lmao
that one guy: "tell me a better version and to this day they still can't"
everyone: "they did since day one, you just didn't want to here it"
Cabbage. I still love this game. It's one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time, as was the same with the first game. I love that its brutal and unforgiving. I love that it's a single player game that's about 20 hours. It doesn't throw jokes in your face. Abbys day 2 is one of the best days for either character. Fighting the scars and sky bridges is one of the most memorable parts of the game.
The skybridge is a great moment for Abby - and for us! Even though I would have used way more swear words than Abby did when those clouds parted.
The main thing was that the game didn't even let you kill her, everything about the way the original is written insinuated that but Ellie doesn't and it's feels unearned. If they just added a choice of kill her or no, that alone would've been way better. But you're remixing of the story would've definitely helped the pacing and ABBY'S side of the story a lot.
I would love to see TLOU sandbox. The places but there's no story just lots of infected
14:45 so tommy didn't see abby pull a shotgun out
It seems not. At least he didn't react to it until she shot Joel.
To get big cabbages in The last of us part 2, you can:
Hold the joystick up
hold run and shoot as the screen fades to cut scene lmao
I’ll have to try it!
EXCITEMENT!!!! HAPPY NOISES
Great cabbages Kevin, I think you did a really good job with this. Very well thought-out. Glad I subscribed after the RE6 video.
43:20 seeing this the first time going through the game, I was like "Really? Making it real hard to like her right now." I felt so disgusted with Abby. One of the biggest issues I had with it the first time. Your fixed version of this made it so much better.
I hope they did make changes in the show closer to something you have here. I think it keeps Druckmann's vision for the story, and as a bonus, I think it would be better received.
I wonder if they will make changes in the show! First season was pretty faithful, but the first game is much more loved. Four years of looking through fan feedback might make it tempting to tweak a few plot points. We'll have to see!
@@KevinHelpUs There are many people who love the second game (myself included).
I love what u did with abby if she would have learned forgiveness honesstly i wouuld have liked the game better and for her to understand revenge isn't the answer better pay off. I hope they do something like the first game for the 3rd game I loved the ending with full heart
5:52 is so real lmao
TBH, I didn't play this game because I don't have a Playstation, but this is EXACTLY what I needed to change my perspective on it.
"Why would you watch someone else play a game you could be playing" yeah collective experience but also I'm like a stressed chihuahua when it comes to most games you fight in 😅 the only game I can handle with fighting is kingdom hearts and even then I'm shaking after each encounter
I still haven't played Kingdom Hearts for no good reason, I love Disney and Final Fantasy. I need to get on that!
Here's the thing MANY miss about, Joel. He slipped up because he was on a high of reconnecting with ellie. Of course, he always thought about protecting her secret, but this was about him. So it wasn't just years of peace but the reconciliation with his "daughter." The end tells this and in-game dialog right before Dina and Ellie go through the grocery store. What I love is how he snaps back into that killer instinct after he's been shot. "Go ahead and save whatever speech you got saved..." Lol
I'm a parent... so I empathize with the slip up and truly think people who don't have kids could fully understand that. Just my thoughts on that part.
I always wondered what would have happened if neil would have did the entire story like he did part one. He allowed halley gross to alter the story? I'm not 100% sure if he had a script and she altered it or they wrote it together but I feel like I recall him allowing her to alter the story. Tlou2 would have been more along the lines of tlou1 if neil wrote the entire story. IMO
I can't speak to their process, but I watched the Grounded II documentary, and it looked like Neil and Halley collaborated pretty directly on the story. Can't say how much each of them brought to the table for certain, but I doubt she could have pushed rewrites that he didn't approve.
I find it kinda funny how you blur out the swear words on the subtitles but you don't cut the audio of those same swear words
I’m doing my darndest not to get demonetized. Agreed it’s a little redundant, but there’s a LOT of swearing in this game, and UA-cam’s enforcement can be…inconsistent.
Perfect, I always thought the story was never the problem just the structure. I like what part 2 had to say, I just didn't agree with how it said it. There just werent enough cabbages you know?
Just a bit more cabbages would have made everything better!
I find the structure perfect personally. They managed to do what they did because of it. You can't change last of us 2's structure. That would be telling another story. Had they decided to do the seattle days in parallel, it wouldn't have been the same. I do understand the dislike for such a thing tho. I myself did at first until I started watching multiple analysis on the game. The shock and denial I was in when the backstory with the father popped up 😭🙏. But now I appreciate such a story. It had its plot convenience moments (Yara pulling a knife on tommy, hmm, no) but it was a great experience. Both the first and second game were great.
@@yogurt-chan while I do agree the shock and twist of Ellie being the enemy, Abby's motives for Joel's sudden death at the beggining, and playing as Abby after pushing through Ellies story were a big hit. The pacing suffered massively for it. I don't think the story here changed, it just smoothes out the pacing and turns plot driven points into character driven points. Which I feel is an overall improvement
@@dazed6511the main thing about the way the games set up between Seattle days is that you're supposed to empathize with ellie and want to kill abby, then switch to abby and see that she's human, too. If we immediately jumped into Abby day 1 after Ellie day 1, we'd probably start to like Abby purely because we play as her more
@@3ggPankak3s I understand the reasonings for why it's structured the way it is. I just thought Abby's side wasn't flesshed out enough and dragged on too long. If they wanted to do this they should've commited part 2 to Ellie and had a sequel where you play as Abby. Or even a DLC expansion. That way you still get both sides but the pacing doesnt suffer. I dunno my main issue is the pacing and some of the writing. The story is fine
I don't think you've managed to fix everything, my man. But first, here are the two things I definitely liked about your take:
1- *Removing Joel and Tommy's mistake at the start.* While I can't fully agree that it was uncharacteristic, I do like the idea of Ellie’s role in Joel's death. The game establishes Joel is trying to change for Ellie, but the space to elaborate is limited. Having Ellie somehow responsible for Joel's death is a brilliant solution. Some people even theorize that Tommy’s involvement in Joel's death might change in HBO’s S2, given how little we see him with Joel early on.
2- *Ellie’s actions affecting Abby’s side of the story.* I think Abby should only fear the consequences of her revenge after facing Tommy. Otherwise, I don't see Abby risking the safety of her friends. But I agree the game does miss an opportunity to make us face and anticipate Ellie's choices. I love the concept of both Ellie and Abby trying to get to Nora first.
What simply doesn't work out:
1- *Showing Abby's and Ellie's sides together.* Showing Abby’s story after Ellie’s is crucial to the narrative, as the game delves into the complexities of war and conflict, such as sides being unable to fully understand each other. The game challenges us to question our lack of sympathy, but Ellie doesn't have the luxury of a "safe place" to question hers. It is a design choice that both Ellie and Abby never get to say each other a single word in relationship to their journeys; only sparing each other over the consequence of their violence.
2- *Joel seeking revenge on the higher-up who ordered Sarah’s death feels uncharacteristic* and Abby shouldn’t just start moving on after killing Joel. The characters' struggles with moving on are central to the games-they can only heal through connection with others.
3- *Multiple endings.* The first game let us form our own opinion but didn't offer a choice beyond Joel’s method of murder, tying into the franchise’s theme of tribalism and conflict inevitability. This is Ellie's story, not the player’s; and the main character isn’t meant to be a canvas. It ain't Half-Life. My interpretation of Ellie’s choice to spare Abby is that killing her would have brought pain, something she was willing to do to deal with her guilt. But, by coming to terms with the fact that everything that happened-everything she, Joel, and by extension, Abby, did- would have always happened because of their nature, she forgives Joel and then herself. Thus allowing her to stop her self-destructive cycle. Ellie didn't forgive Abby. She got simply tired of destroying her own sense of self. Allowing the choice to kill Abby completely undermines this. Something incompatible with the original intent.
5:50 XQC lol 😂😂😂
I’ve heard a lot of complaints about the story of TLOU II. Most of them saying how worthless it is. Your interpretation of how the story should be about US is so much more than I ever thought the game could be. I really hope that the next game does give us a choice, because like you said, it all turns back to the original question of “Was Joel Right?”
This is a video that I was able to watch all the way through, which is very rare. This is a fantastic piece and I hope more people see this. My first thought was, “this is probably going to be another piece of cabbage”, but boy was I wrong….
I’m glad it rose above your standard for cabbage! Thanks for watching!
I agree with a lot of your cabbages - much of Part II's gameplay actively works against its themes by forcing you to take a backseat. It has so many QTEs but all of them result in the same outcome, whereas giving players the option to make up their own minds (especially in the final fight, whether to kill Abby or let her go) would have a lot more emotional resonance. I still think the game tells a very bold & brave story and has a narrative structure that is unorthodox & interesting, but there's always room for improvement as you pointed out here, and I think the TV show's adaptation will lay out the narrative structure more like how you did here with the events happening side-by-side rather than a series of episodes following Ellie with a hard POV switch to Abby for the next several episodes.
I especially like your idea of having a flashback cutscene with Joel telling Ellie about taking revenge on the commanding officer who gave the order to the soldier in the beginning of Part I to shoot Joel & Sarah and how that brought him a measure of peace...that would effectively instill a mentality of "revenge is the only option" in Ellie as so much of what she does in Part II mirrors Joel's actions & ideas (e.g., having two people independently point out the location she's seeking on a map) but she is younger, less experienced, and often fails in this (e.g., putting herself in a position where Owen & Leah got the jump on her and she was cornered and wound up killing them).
Cabbage! I’m real interested to see if they make changes for the show based on fan feedback. The first season was pretty faithful, but it’s the more beloved game.
@@KevinHelpUs Agreed, and the best change they made with Part I was with Bill, fleshing out his character and his relationship with Frank. That was really interesting because that's something from the story they were able to evolve using film (it wouldn't have worked in a videogame as the character development would constantly have to have gunfights or QTEs or some sort of gameplay element wedged in regularly).
I HIGHLY doubt Part II's adaptation will keep the narrative structure of the game. I think Joel will die, but not until during or after the halfway point of season 2, then the rest of season 2 and season 3 will juggle between Ellie's and Abby's POV rather than stick with Ellie for several episodes then hard cut to Abby for several episodes (as, behind Joel dying, that was the most hated thing about the game). I mean, let's face it - Joel HAD to die. His past was inevitably going to catch up with him. I do hope the show improves upon HOW he dies (he & Tommy welcoming the WLF, letting their guards down, and even casually giving out their names is NOT in line with their characters or the world building at all), but he has to die to kick off Ellie's revenge quest and journey through grief & hate to redemption & forgiveness.
You said it. People didn't like playing as Abby because we wanted to see Ellie win. We didn't care about Abby because she killed someone we liked. I'd say this is immature.