I really liked the added flashback with Joel explaining how he became a smuggler, it really clicked everything together with Joel's history and feels borderline canon.
When I had the idea, I dug into it, and was surprised that they’ve never answered who gave the soldier the order to kill Joel and Sarah. Maybe it’ll come up in 3?
@@KevinHelpUs I don’t think it’s really that important to the story. Sarah was killed because the military would rather exterminate the roots than the infected during the evacuation. It just shows how ruthless the military was willing to be and later on became their most well-known trait. The guy who gave the order probably received it from even upper higher-ups.
@KevinHelpUs Imo they shouldn’t do a third game, but if they’re going to anyway it should be about completely different characters in a completely different part of America. I feel that they really fumbled the bag with the second game but if they did a third about these same characters they’d be beating the dead horse, not much they can do with them that wouldn’t feel forced.
That's my main issue with the story. I was upset Joel died but I was okay that he did. What I didn't like is how his murderers were just handed the man on a silver platter. Joel has never been a relaxed guy, he knows people in the world hate him, he knows how to be smart. Yet somehow he just gives his name to complete strangers? Doesn't even try to hide who he is all of a sudden? Tommy too like wth happened to these characters? They were never that chill about giving their names.
@dash9641 I felt the same way too. I thought there were too many coincidences and I wanted to see what Abby would've done if she had no choice but to infiltrate Jackson. How would she do it, and would she have killed innocent people to get to Joel that could potentially start a war with Jackson. Abby got her revenge and walked away with clean hands, apposed to Ellie who killed countless people who had nothing to do with Joel's death, then when she about to kill Abby, she let's her go?!!! Such a bizarre ending
@@dash9641 actually Tommy has always been this way he never was like his brother that’s what caused them to even split apart in the first place, I do agree about the Joel part but Joel’s not the one who gave the names Tommy is and think about the situation realistically you find a 19-20 year old girl all alone visibly shook from what has just occurred and now she’s alone with 2 grown male strangers, Tommy did the thing he would do and that’s to comfort and make her feel a little safer by introducing them to make things familiar and that’s the tragedy of it cause he incidentally causes his own brothers death. But I do agree it’s super coincidental and I also have a small problem with it.
@@smoke-o-time3913 you have to understand that Ellie’s mental was faltering throughout the story and you see that through things like the chance they get to go home to Jackson when they think they know where Tommy is but she decides to keep going to Abby even though she’s already killed almost all of Abby’s friends she keeps going, the game tries to make it as apparent as possible that Ellie is starting to do this for her own selfish desire rather than for Joel or for anything else. This caused her to have to kill all these people along the way and Abby’s part is that she did have to deal with killing and things like that on the way I understand the frustrations of the dumb coincidence that she ran into Joel but I also think that for 4 year she had to deal with knowing the identity of her fathers killer and not being able to find him plus she’s not the person her father would’ve wanted her to be and she starts to realize that later on in the game when she runs into lev and yara and begins to care for them when the day before she talked about killing kid seraphites and that it would be their fault but once she takes care of these kids her nightmares go away and she starts to finally have sleep filled nights without jolting up in the morning after 4 years it was the first time she got a good nights sleep, the game is all about perspective so saying that Abby didn’t go through anything to get to Joel isn’t fully correct
@@aidenwilliams2889 Bro what are you even talking about? That is literally what happened in the game. Tommy gave out their names like idiots and Joel just went along with it despite that going against everything he's been shown to do up until then. We have already seen Joel is not stupid enough to fall for that that crap in the first game. Joel legit called out a attempted ambush and even during the fall of humanity he was untrusting of people and refused to help a family stuck on a road asking for help. He legit told Tommy to keep driving. You seem to be forgetting that part in your attempt to make me look like I don't know. That is the whole reason that ambush from Abby didn't work for so many people and why OP made it something Ellie would fall for instead because Joel just wouldn't after everything we have seen of him. I'm genuinely shocked Joel hadn't already talked to Tommy about just handing out their real names like candy assuming everyone is friendly. Would of been an extremely important thing to talk about so the very thing that ends up getting Joel killed doesn't happen.
I understand joels perspective in saving ellie. Not only did he grow to love her as a daughter, but they didnt even wake ellie up to ask if she wanted this. They were just going to straight up murder her for the cure. She didn't get to make the choice to sacrifice herself.
Yeah that's the biggest thing that confused me after going online and reading people's thoughts about the ending of the game. When I first played TLOU there was no grey morality at all to it for me, these people were about to kill the daughter I'd grown to love and weren't even going to get her consent for her 'sacrifice', which I think they could've actually gotten pretty easily. Not giving Ellie a choice and not letting Joel talk to her if they did was crazy and I felt no qualms whatsoever about mowing my way through them to stop them from killing my daughter. That on top of all the audio logs in the game that basically tell you 'they will not find the cure by doing this'. I was certain the ending was going to build toward a moment where they basically convince Ellie to go through with it and that Joel would kill them for it, but sever their relationship as a result. Instead he just protected her like a good man should. The notion that I was supposed to hesitate or feel any remorse for attacking that doctor was crazy, I would do everything Joel did at the end of TLOU in a heartbeat, and anyone who doesn't get it doesn't have a daughter or niece. He simply did what any male guardian would try and do in that scenario.
@stone5252 the people who say they wouldn't do everything possible to protect somebody their responsible for, have never had to be responsible for anybody before in their lives and I am convinced of that. There is a psychological experiment called the trolley problem which isn't understood by the wider populace, the way it goes is that a trolley is heading towards a rail with 5 people on it but you can turn the trolley so that it just goes into 1 person. Now many peoples reaction to that is just whichever number is greater or less equals what's the bigger evil, but if you replace that 1 person to say your daughter, or brother, or father, then people should start changing their answers I know I would because the way I see it is strangers die everyday, so if I have to choose between someone important to me or a bunch of Joe schmos that's an obvious answer
We think the story could’ve been improved simply by adding that guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender who yells, “MY CABBAGES!” whenever his supply gets destroyed. It’s a lot like how people call out the names of whomever you just killed in game, but way funnier and lighthearted.
ellie bumps into a jackson vegetable vendor and says the iconic line, while on the flipside abby does the exact same thing and the cabbage vendor says the same line. This sequence can also unironically serve as a tutorial on how to pick up items as you help with the mess you just caused
That was a pretty brilliant rewrite. Not only does it improve the pacing and numerous other things, but it really does seem to accomplish what the stated goal of the game was. I like the idea of leaving the final decision up to the player, and having different endings, in particular.
@@Carl_Frank The crazy part is, Black Ops 2 had you choose if you took revenge or not. *Black Ops 2* did it before TLOU2, ironically with more sympathetic characters considering the fact it’s a call of duty game. Almost everyone sympathises with Menandez, whereas his TLOU2 counter part, Abby, is much more contentious, despite having more time to make her sympathetic.
I think it would be cool if there was a 6 hour part where Abby is tied down and Ellie is gorging herself on beans and hot sauce. Then Ellie has to poop a lot so you have to press X X X X X X to push the poop on Abby’s face.
“Abby is dead,this is the part where I’m supposed to say I feel empty but I would be lying to myself.I finally feel awake like I can breathe again.and Joel nothing can change his death but maybe I can still do something that will make a difference”
Well Ellie dropped it because she tried to be Joel and failed miserably. She was NOT prepared for the situation. She even told Mel and Owen they both could live, she just wanted Abby at that point. Situation went pear shaped and she was forced to kill them, something she already didn’t want to do, then she finds out Mel was pregnant, which hit way too close to home for her. She was puking and having a panic attack. Tommy and Jesse comfort Ellie but because neither of them were there how were they to know that the map was hers. Ellie only left it because she had a panic attack, which is VERY REAL, it happens all the time in REAL LIFE
@@IFluxWithItfirst of all, why the hell is a late term pregnant lady out in the dangerous field? Secondly, suddenly Ellie has a conscious and doesn't want to hurt the people who isn't Abby...meanwhile she murdered dozens of their men with no hesitation up to that point. Thirdly...marking a map and giving away your location is just dumb. Lol.
This is DEFINITELY a better story than what we got and it fixed a lot if the criticisms towards the game but I still think it judges Joel in a very unfair manner. Despite trying to give Ellie a mirror image of Joel's last choice, it still wasn't at par w what Joel's situation was. In Joel's case, there was a timer on Ellie's life. He had to act fast because any delay can cause Ellie's demise. The fireflies had BOTH of them held hostage while in Ellie's case, she was an outsider looking in with no threat being posed to her own safety. Joel was cornered between a rock and a hard place. It doesn't help that he never believed in the fireflies and was eventually fucked over by them. Let's not forget that this mission cost him his last partner, Tess, and wasn't even being given the payment they were promised nor the respect he deserved for going all the way from Boston to SLC. Painting Joel to be a bad guy for not choosing the pacisift route/"having empathy" when the entire firefly organization showed him NEITHER empathy nor respect is kinda fucked up imo. The fireflies, a group bombing QZs with no regard to civilians, was never a good group. Let's stop pretending that they ever were.
@@thegamingcook785 I mean how can you forget that? That's literally the twist of the entire game, you think Ellie is this really special kid that can save the world until you realize there have been dozen others that all been sacrificed with nothing to show for it
@@thechugg4372 I think you misunderstood something. Joel saying there are many more like Ellie is a lie. It is also stated in the next game, and is also why Ellie is mad at Joel. So no, not a twist…
Yes, I agree. I love a closer looks version of the story and his version was awesome but even this version would still have the game at least at nine out of 10 because you’re not changing much of the story. The biggest improvement I’ve seen here was that Ellie had a hard time forgiving Joel, and Joel was still using his survival instinct, but Ellie wanted to call the shots and it ultimately got Joel killed that alone is a huge improvement to what we already got it must be a damn shame to have people who are fans of the last of us have better fan made ideas than the creator himself ain’t that some shit with that being said I give his perspective on the story changes five out of five stars
@@godzillazfriction what do you mean by that any other version of a story of the last of us content creators have posted has significantly been better than the original and my opinion I’m not seeking any validation I’m just complementing the UA-camr perspective which I like better than the creator of the last of us part two but if you wanna believe that, hey more power to you, it is what it is I don’t know how he explain it, but from what I watched in the video, Ellie makes a certain mistake which cost Joel his life, and that alone is more realistic than the story we originally got in the last of us part two because Joel would not fall for that very easily given what we have experience in the first game with him. Now I don’t know if you agree with that or not, but that’s my personal opinion but if you think I’m just seeking validation for my reason for commenting, I think you’re wrong on that. I got a life. I don’t need anybody’s validation, but it is what it is.
@ like I said, it’s my opinion whatever your perspective on it it’s fine I didn’t understand the me seeking validation part that you mentioned, but if that’s what you thought then you’re free to believe that. I just agree with the UA-camr and I commented on what he said in the video that’s it.
@@godzillazfrictionImagine being a legendary keyboard warrior that you intensely bait others for an online argument that doesn't need to be pushed further. Chill dude. The commenter had opinions and wanted to say it. They respected your opinion, and you can't do the same for them? They are not obligated in any way to answer your raging ego and have better things to do 😂 I've seen your other comments on this same video. Don't you have anything better to do than attacking people's opinion? Whether it's "disingenuous" or whatever, it's theirs. Not your business.
The problem with the game I think is that it feels too one sided. It tries to justify Abby’s actions because she lost her father but she took a father from Ellie and more so.
I disagree, Abby's supposed to be a terrible person at the beginning of the game. The game literally tells and shows us this. The reason why it might feel one-sided is because the game is about her trying to redeem herself. While Ellie is currently going down the same path Abby once did.
So in your opinion, why is it ok for Elli to go on a rampage after her father figure was murdered, but not for Abby after her father was murdered? That's the story, the game told. Maybe your opposite has good reasons for their actions and maybe those reasons actually don't differ much from your own.
What? How does it justify Abby more? She DIDN’T GAIN A THING FROM KILLING HIM. It didn’t bring her peace, satisfaction, happiness, it didn’t suddenly make everything better. She spent years thinking it was gonna magically solve her problems and we quite literally see it didn’t
@@peterpaulister two reasons why it's not equivalent 1. Joel killing Abby's father in defense of Ellie was completely justified. 2. Abby was saved by Joel and had the opportunity to actually get to know the man. She chose to murder him anyways.
@Narutou01 oh no. Abbys father was killed by a rampaging rando, while performing surgery, that would safed thousands if not millions of lifes. First person player as joel perspective is in no way the perspective of the character abby. Joel was killed by a bunch of rampaging randos, while performing guard duty, protecting thousands of lifes. That's Ellis perspective, pretty similar to Abbys. 🤷♂️
@@lungfulldrummer8921 Is it slim pickings though? Cuz names are just that, the odds of people sharing first AND surnames are pretty high, all things considered
One of the things I hated about Abby was her lack of empathy or remorse for killing an old man who just saved her and continuing to do so without any problem in front of someone who seems to care for him. The guy just saved you and you are able to feel that hatred and thirst for revenge as if it were nothing.
A number of folks have said this, and I totally see your point, but I'm gonna hot take this: I'm glad they had Joel save Abby before she killed him. It fits thematically with the rest of the story that - for a moment - Abby realized Joel was more than just the monster she's been imagining him to be. He still killed her father, saving her doesn't change that, and clearly she felt it was still right to go through with her plan - but it sets up the conflict the game wants the player to go through - could we see Abby as more than the one who killed Joel? Even if Abby couldn't see past Joel killing her father?
@@KevinHelpUs uh ... no it really doesn't it makes Abby completely 100% irredeemable as it just killed someone who risked his own lives to save it's It's not complex writing it was lazy end of story. If Joel was the psycho killer Abby claimed, Joel would not have done that and would have left Abby for dead. but Joel didn't do that, he showed true compassion and humanity, something Abby has NONE of. and is nothing more than a mentally ill animal acting purely on revenge, anger, and hatred. this is a VILLIAN not at all sympathetic in any way shape or form, her father was a murder just like Joel willing to kill Ellie to get to his goal and Joel the same. There is ZERO moral high ground for it to stand on.
I like how you wrote the story, but i think a reason for abbys part being halfway through the story is because of gameplay You play as Ellie, not really knowing what youre getting into, what the wolfs are like, who the scars are, learning how to play the game But as abby you already know how to play, you know how the scars are like, what some of their whistles mean, etc And you generally understand how things flow more, same way an inexperienced survivor of a town who does patrols around, killing mostly infected, has to figure out things by themselves in this foreign QZ vs a trained soldier who has been fighting these scars for years,
@@TDOI332 arguably the story suffered on that (pacing, triggering endless comments about "forcing abby down everyone's throat"), so I don't know if I would consider it truly "genius" I would label it genius if they found a way to make both work seemlessly
@@d34thnote79 I don't have a huge issue with the story, but then again I didn't wait 7 years to play the game so my situation may be different. I think it's cool that the experience of the player is shown through the game's characters. Like @bananabird735 said, "You play as Ellie, not really knowing what you're getting into... learning how to play the game. But as Abby you already know how to play."
@@TDOI332 As far as @d34thnote79's argument goes, the game was pretty seamless for me; and I did play the first game after they had remastered it, but I already knew the story from watching playthroughs. To your argument, there are several UA-camrs that, like you, played both games for the first time back-to-back, and every one of them massively enjoyed BOTH games.
Yeah, thats's part of why I feel weird about cutting back and forth between characters, even if it would have helped explain each character's motivations better. But I have some doubts narrative wise as well. I think because the original sequencing forces you to spend a longer time only seeing from Ellie's perspective, that makes the character switch more compelling. It was jarring, yes; I just think it was jarring in a good way. Walking a mile in Abby's shoes was something I appreciated, especially because I think the first half of the game already does a good job making you question Ellie's revenge quest. If you were to keep switching back and forth, I think it would take away from the player-character relationship. You wouldn't feel like you ARE Ellie or Abby as much. I think it would be a vastly different game. It might have better pacing and clearer character arcs, yes, but I'm not sure it would be as good gameplay wise or as emotionally impactful. I understand a lot of people weren't emotionally invested at all for valid reasons. But it worked for me.
it's True that Revange doesn't bring Joel back and could cost a lot and you can Almost see it as Selfish Act but That's what Humans Are. Sometimes Humans do everything they can just for there own personal feelings and don't care if it's Right or Wrong.
@Schmopit no one is a 100% good person and everyone and I mean everyone would want to kill abby if he/she had elies live and struggle. Yea she was mad at joel about hidding true but she loved him like father no matter what. For elie she lost everythink, because joel was her live even more that she thaught. I personally would kill myself after avenging joel and seeing abby dead.
I think the two campaign solution would work. Doing a straight revenge game of Abby and Elle on two separate campaigns. Joel snarls about how he saved Elle and he would do anything to keep her safe to Abby's group before Abby begins the trap. Then have Elle scream that it's her fault and beg Abby to kill her to find the cure. When Joel sees her ready to kill Elle, Joel yells to Abby he killed her Father in brutal detail. That is when Elle's campaign begins. For Abby, show how the fireflies collapse after Joel's attack against them and start her campaign there. Each Campaign, the player chooses if the respective enemy lives or dies. They both mirror each other.
I’m going to be honest… i’m glad we got the version we got. Forcing us to complete all of Ellie’s arc in Seattle before switching to Abby makes it so much harder to empathize with Abby. And it’s supposed to be difficult. I feel like switching back and forth is like letting the player use training wheels. You have to push their hatred to the absolute limit before you break out the redeeming qualities and test the players ability to feel empathy. I also think the ending hits way harder for those of us that do choose empathy if we end up saving Abby from slavers in the process of trying to kill her, instead of just walking away when we see she is with the fireflies. The one thing i do love about your rewrite is the idea of Abby and Ellie meeting up outside Jackson and then Joel having to come save her one last time. Not only does it give us a more interesting death for Joel but it also gives us more of an opportunity to spend time with Abby and plant the seed of us not wanting her to be “bad”, that way we get to then water that seed once her seattle arc begins and we’d be slightly less averse to the character swap.
My problem was never Joel dying, it was *HOW* he died, felt like it would have been more of sacrificing himself to save Ellie EDIT: GOD, this alternative angle of the story goes way more harder than how it is. A way better trip going along the paths of both Ellie & Abby, and actually giving the player choices? YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH
He did sacrifice himself to save Ellie, if you think about it. The only reason they were after him was exactly because he saved Ellie and murdered people to protect her.
I'm juts pissed that the fucking nerfed Joel's common sense for the sake of the plot. Joel would never tell a bunch of random people his name and everything else.
According to the show, Marlene saw Ellie get born. Ellie’s mother was infected during child birth, so technically she knows how Ellie became immune which is implied, so therefore, Marlene can just make more immune children, could have.
She didn't know how it exactly happened as seen in the TV-Series. She came hours later. Besides, how would you replicate that? Impregnate a woman, wait roughly 9 months, get her purposely infected and separate the lifeline (idk how it's called in English). Ellies mother also claimed she cut it off before the bite. It would be beyond fucked up and most likely fail
I believe the Last of Us 2 gave a clear representation of PTSD. The scene where Abby wakes up in the stadium, screaming was from an event that was traumatic to her. That event is Joel’s death. Joel’s decision is something that’s discussed about amongst fans, whether he was in the right or in the wrong for taking Ellie’s choice away. But let’s not discuss that on this thread and talk about why Joel’s death was just as traumatic for Abby as well as Ellie. From the moment she got to Jackson to the moment she has Joel at her mercy, you can see a slight shift in whats going on. From her and her friends arrival, she’s determined. But the moment she has Joel in her clutches, there’s a slight hesitation. Abby never thought the moment would arrive so soon; she had prepared to capture someone else to make them give up Joel’s location, even go through Jackson to find him. But the moment she takes the golf club and you hear Joel tell her to “get it over with”, she hesitates for a brief moment before going in for the kill. After she ends Joel, for a brief moment, there’s relief. The hunts for the man that ended her father was over. But was it? You can ask combat vets, police officers, or anyone that experienced a traumatic event that it’s far from over. Taking a life in the most violent way possible is seared into the brain. And Abby, while doing what she believed was right, was haunted by her actions. Sure, she can sit there and say “Joel deserved it” but it doesn’t change the fact she, herself will never really find peace. Her dreams haunted by the people she’s killed, the people she’s lost.
@ it’s called doing something new! ..it happens with most sequels, like in the gta games you couldn’t swim in 3 or vice city, everything after allows you to swim aka do something brand new aka something you’ve never done before in said game 😱
@@bobsaget3369 you’re comparing adding game mechanic like swimming to something that would fundamentally change the story and ending to a game…..I don’t think I need to expand on that any further
@@bobsaget3369 lol, but you’re comparing something like apples to cars. It’s not a good comparison. The reason why we, the audience, didn’t get the choice, was because it wasn’t ours to make, it’s not our story, it was Joel’s at first and then Ellie’s. We’re just living thru their eyes.
First, Joel "robbed" Ellie of the chance to save the world, then Abby "robbed" Ellie of the chance to forgive Joel. So after that Ellie goes after the revenge thinking that she hates Abby, but really she's just unable to forgive herself that she didn't forgive Joel before he died. In the end she's able to finally understand that and forgives herself, letting Abby go. That's how I read it.
Makes sense. But it’s messed up that the game agreed with her assessment of the situation. From that description alone Ellie sounds self destructive to the point of suicidal ideation. The fact that nobody bats an eye at her death wish is wild to me.
@@skeezaworkan what makes the story terrible to me is that never once Abby has an introspective moment where she realizes that by killing Joel she did the same thing to Ellie that joel did to her by killing her father. Never once she tries to understand Ellie's motivations and never once she has a moment where she thinks was revenge worth it? Even after all her friends get killed because of it. Revenge didn't bring her dad back and in turn only caused her friends to get killed and she doesn't once feels responsible for it, she never feels remorse or questions her action or comes to the realization that revenge didn't give her her dad back, but just made her lose other people. Instead she is completely chill with it and only blames Ellie for killing her friends and would have killed her and even killed Dina even after knowing she was pregnant if it wasn't for Lev. For all these reasons, imo Abby didn't deserve Ellie's mercy and it's impossible for me to have sympathy or like a character like Abby and that's why the last of us 2's plot failed big time in my opinion to deliver not only a good story but also a good or at least satisfying ending.
43:26 nope, here we see a "metaphor" so to speak, we see abby on her path of revenge, the hole where she fell again, the abby from the beginning, and then we see lev, who represents abby's path up to this point, abby Go to Lev and put aside his savagery because Lev here represents his journey, his path, once he looks at the path he traveled, he leaves Dinna and forgives Ellie and Tommy for SECOND TIME, demonstrating how her character arc, her lesson of not desperately searching for something that only causes more damage (which is one of tlou2's many lessons) has been learned and her arc ended (because after this abby stays the same) It is a well constructed scene, it is not bad, it must be analyzed, but at this point the player is shocked by all the new information that comes to him, at least in my opinion, it is a good scene
About the thing with Abby almost killing Dina About that she is pregnant Ellie killed a pregnant woman too Yeah she didn't know... but Abby doesn't know that... Yeah its not "oh that makes it all okay and i like Abby now..." but eh... wanted to bring it up
@@charlesman8722 I am with you that Abby is not a good person, but from her pov you can see why she is so willing to kill Dina. Imagine if Ellie found Dina dead with her pregnant stomach showing making her believe that Abby knowingly killed someone pregnant. If Ellie was then in a position to kill Mel in front of Abby, she'd be willing to do it as well. It's not that either would be happy to do it but more so they see it as avenging their friend
@@tmm4195 you’re wrong Abby would be happy to do it and she was until Lev stepped in and made her realize she nearly let her mask slip in front of Lev.
@@superphantom100 I mean nothing you said is disapproving the point I made. She was happy to do it because she believes that Ellie killed Mel knowing she was pregnant. We know Ellie didn’t know Mel was pregnant but of course Abby doesn’t know that. So imagine if the roles were reversed and Ellie believed Abby killed Dina knowing Dina was pregnant. Ellie would be eager to kill Mel not because she wants too, but to avenge Dina
Your version of Abby is WAY more understandable, they definitely rushed the story no matter how much Neil wants to deny it. Many of the major issues can easily be fixed. It's difficult because Naughty Dog is trying to tackle a discussion as Impossible as solving world hunger, racism, or poverty. while attempting to take a high road with lazy writing. Great work as always!
@@haesome8613 Whichever way you want to cut it, this story is more advanced and well-written with subtext and subtle foreshadowing than any other game. It gets so much slack for existing in (or trying to live up to) the same standard set by the first game. I commend this game for its never-seen-before representation in a AAA game (almost unanimously hated by the “gamer” crowd). I also commend it for not taking the money-grab route of bending to the will of the audience and producing another half-baked re-work of the first game’s dynamics. People would have been happy with this, but it would have been completely inauthentic and much more deserving of criticism. Joel needed to die and to make that decision is a feat that I have not seen in the AAA game industry.
@@kkickks That’s sure is a lot of words without saying anything lmao. TLOU2 fans will always instantly jump to glazing when their game is criticized istg. Joel’s death isn’t the problem, the problem is the fact that it was rushed, stupidly executed, and committed by an unlikable psychopath that the game tries to make you empathize with. Representation means jack sht, couldn’t care less about it if the story was good, but tacking on representation to an already defunct story doesn’t suddenly make it any better. The representation wasn’t “never seen before” either, games like Life Is Strange had tons of it way before TLOU2 ever reared its ugly head. You know what’s the worst part though? There was something there. It would be so easy to just dismiss the game but I can tell from playing it over three times now that there were people who made this game with passion, but that passion was squandered by holding the importance of a message over the importance of an actual story
@@Cogito-r6n Thanks for the snark in your take, makes you real likable. (EDIT: just scroll down… you will see how insufferable this guy is… like 1000+ comments) I dont defend this game with my life, I just like to point out how literally no other game’s story is held to this standard. Look at any other game. The writing is dogsht and stiff in comparison. The only major issue I have is the pacing. Also, joel’s death wasn’t “rushed”. it was abrupt to reflect the brutal, unpredictable world. Nothing is more realistically brutal than the death of a loved one before you got to make peace with them. Abby’s arc was divisive, sure, but her perspective was an ambitious, risky way to tell a AAA story, even if it didn't land for everyone. I think any AAA game that pushes boundaries is worth commending. Do you really want more formulaic Far Cry, Assassin’s Creed or Call of Duty? As for representation, Life is Strange isn’t close to AAA, so it’s not comparable. The blockbuster scale, budget and audience reach of tlou2 make its representation a much bigger deal (especially to the insular and generally disdainful gamer crowd). Now, what I find interesting is that you called Abby an unlikable psychopath. How do you feel about Ellie then? She’s just as ruthless, if not more so, throughout the game. Do her actions feel more justified to you? I personally think Ellie lost her humanity
@ I don’t intend to be likable I intend to make points about how the story is flawed, it makes my eyes roll when people praise the game for stuff like its “representation” or its “boldness” rather than the value of its story and thus I refute these claims. Many other games are held to this standard, if the next god of war game was about how Kratos was just randomly killed by a common enemy and we were expected to follow Atreus as if he were the mc people would get mad about that, rightfully so. People got mad at the game because it ripped away everything that made the first game good and shoved its corpse down their throats. As pointed out in the video, Joel stupidly tells random strangers where they live and what his name is, something that the Joel established in the first game would never do considering the fact that he knows ambush traps very well and could sniff out a setup from a mile away. It’s not realistically brutal, it’s just dumb. I’m not saying a game can’t be different I’m saying it still has to be well written, “pushing boundaries” means nothing if the pushing of boundaries is the only thing of substance in which the story contains, which TLOU2 barely pushed boundaries in the first place. What I want is more Ghost of Tsushima, Cyberpunk 2077, God Of War, etc. games that actually push boundaries and define what a game could and should be through their beautifully crafted stories. Life is strange is triple A lmao, it got tons of rewards and Dontnod Entertainment is no small company. Also throwing representation into the faces of people doesn’t get them to like it, surrounding it with actual good content does. Abby is an unlikable psychopath because she beats an old man(who saved her life) to death in front of his adopted daughter and by the end of the game almost kills a pregnant woman on purpose. Ellie has way more humanity than her, crying over people she killed like Nora or Mel, letting Abby go at the end, tbh she was way more merciful than I think she should have been. If I were writing the story, I would make her get progressively comfortable with killing people with Dina getting progressively uncomfortable with her behavior, culminating in Ellie’s realization that her mission for revenge is futile. This would also play into the Santa Barbara section because Ellie doesn’t go to Santa Barbara for revenge, but for redemption. She frees Abby and goes back to Jackson satisfied with her actions and demonstrating her character growth
@@godzillazfriction Nice way of saying you’re just another mindless fanboy and didn’t even watch the video lmao. If you’re going to say anything say something worth my time or go back to being a sheepish drone
***SPOILERS*** I think that the best way to illustrate what Neil said at 9:00 would've been to have Ellie kill Abby at the end of the game before coming back to an empty house. Sparing Abby but still coming to a house where Dina left is a little contradicting with the message Neil says. Imo, to really impact the players, Naughty Dog should've given them what they wanted, Ellie's revenge, but then having her come back to an empty house, showing that Ellie might have accomplished her goals, but at the cost of losing the last person she loves.
Personally, I would've marketed the game as a brand new story, everything about Abby, this new character, make hints that Joel and Ellie do appear, but as side characters, play out the story as Abby, connecting with her and her friends, then spring the plot twist that she killed Joel, before you take over the game as Ellie. I think positioning it like this would genuinely conflict with the player, making the story hit differently
53:56 I don't think Ellie would say this though, given that this scene would take place a day after the game's final flashback where Ellie amends to try and forgive Joel. They had already made plans to watch a movie together after all.
They had also just agreed that Joel would stop being so controlling. No way to know for sure, but I think Ellie would remind him that he agreed to treat her less like a child when he tried to take command.
Great video! Just one adjustment I'd make, specifically at the end. The story has to be linear. In order for the possibility of a 3rd game (whatever that may be based on what we know so far). Ellie should spare abby no matter what. The first TLOU game gave us no choice we had to kill the doctor, likewise, we should have to spare abby. Maybe instead of the ending flashback with ellie FORGIVING Joel, it should be about, UNDERSTANDING Joel. If this story is supposed to be about ellie walking in joels shoes, then instead of outright forgiving him, just understanding him should take priority. Ellie isn't Joel, she would've absolutely had died if given the choice, but she never TRULY understood why he lied and did what he did. It would still be controversial, but at the very least, we'd get a better reason WHY Ellie lets abby go (really, saving her). Ellie ending the circle of violence, thereby saving both lev and Abby, is more her character than killing Abby. Joel would kill abby in a heartbeat, but he isn't ellie. Ellie killing all of abby's crew to protect dina is within her character, but killing abby when it doesn't mean anything (especially when abby has lev, who'd be left with no one as a child, resembling ellie in a way) isn't within her character. Ellie would die to save that world, joel would kill it to save ellie. And that is what's left up for the audience to think about. Was both Joel and Ellie justified in their decisions at the end of the game? Joel saving ellie, and Ellie sparing Abby. Those are just my thoughts! Great analysis, watched it through and through. Great idea to mesh both ellie and Abby's stories together instead of keeping them seperate! Awesome video!
@@cantwin8105 you can have the "true ending" be that Abby is spared, but there's nothing wrong with giving players a non-canon ending where Ellie kills her too.
I wanted to stop playing when they switched it to Abby. Even let Ellie kill her a few times when she gets to the theater. I was never able to sympathize with Abby after the intro. I've played part 1 maybe a dozen times but part 2 only once
@@Endgame_01 I feel starting the game with abby and hunting down "someone" who killed her father 'joel' would have been a better way to structure the story if they wanted to create a conflict but ig people wouldn't have liked that because we don't play as Ellie or joel but if they wanted this direction for the game then I think this woild have been better
@@notagenjimain3699it wouldn’t work tho. you run into a farrrrr bigger issue if Abby's section is first. By the time we get to the Farm sequence, most are starting to feel it's length, only because of how heavy the game has been. We then see Ellie's journey isn't finished because she's not at peace, she's drowning, so in her mind she has to leave. And as a player, we fucking hate that, we don't want her to leave Dina and JJ to go after Abby again. Santa Barb is about an hour to 2.5 hours, depending on the player and difficulty, and all that time you hate Ellie had left. Meanwhile if Abby's section was first and we came to like and care for Abby and her crew, by the time we switch to Ellie, you now have a whole lotta people who are on Abby's side, who understood why she did what she did, and saw revenge didn't help her in the slightest. It didn't bring her peace, satisfaction, happiness, didn't bring her dad back, nothing. She wasted years for that moment and it didn't make a difference, she's was just as broken as she was before she killed Joel. We would've seen all of that. And so come the Ellie's switch, you have that conflict, the same conflict most people had with the Santa Barb section, BUT instead of an hour to two hours feeling that, you're now feeling that for 10-14 hours. They needed you fully behind Ellie and the revenge journey she was about to embark on, but they wanted you to slowly question when enough was enough, because you were starting to see how it was affecting Ellie and how it was changing her too. They then wanted to see if you could empathize with someone you hated, to understand where Abby was coming from, to walk miles in her shoes
Yep, but I loved the part when she went to the Hospital (Ground Zero) and fought the Rat King. I think it's lacking and it needs more story on that quest line. Boss is too easy.
My mother used to make stuffed cabbage. A Hungarian dish, using ground beef and rice wrapped in cabbage leaves. You stack them in a pot, then pour tomato soup over the top and cook for a few hours. I never appreciated it back then. I should try making it myself now. I wasn't a big fan of the first game. Much like Joe Haldeman's or Robert Ludlum's books, they try to say violence is bad, then show all the awesome ways you can do it. It's hypocritical. Your montage of the doctor's deaths is a great example. I empathize with the guy with the blowtorch most. More than anything, the characters may pay the price for your violence, but the fact that they suffer removes that burden from me as a player. Compare that to the later levels of Spec Ops: The Line, where the loading screens ask questions like, "How many Americans have you killed?" and "Are you proud of what you've done?" That game made me feel awful, especially as a veteran. TLOU 2 was nothing more than the exploitation of violence with a thin plot to tie it all together. I feel like the characters go where they go and do what they do because of what the writers wrote, not because of human motivation. I understand why Joel did what he did in the first game, despite how petty and shortsighted it was. I would probably do the same. He feels like a human. Living in the post-apocalypse and burning an enormous amount of resources and personnel for a petty grudge doesn't seem like rational thinking. I guess if I were the writers of the game, I would have just told another story with different characters in their world. How is the disease affecting England? Canada? Australia? Heck, how about Hawaii? There were a million other stories to tell, but they chose to return to the well and write a story that everyone has problems with to some degree. Everyone's head canon would probably be better. Great work. I wouldn't alter a thing about your changes. This definitely makes me want to read your book. Drop the title one of these days. I go through about 50 novels a year, so I can always use something new to read. As far as other games to fix the plot, I can suggest PREY (2017). I love the ending, but it is sloppy and a lot of people didn't. Clive Barker's Jericho was incomplete and ended in a horrible way, so it could definitely use some love. The last would be my beloved Spec Ops: The Line. The simple question would be this: how would you fix the ending of Joseph Conrad's Heart Of Darkness? It's in my top ten of games and has incredible writing, but I'd love your take. Keep up the good work, Kev!!!
Apparently you’ve never heard of grief or trauma and how they affect people, how they can ruin your mind and you make poor decisions because of it. Apparently you’ve never heard of addiction and how they form, how hard they are to escape Apparently you’ve never had to struggle to forgive someone who hurt you Apparently you’ve never lost someone suddenly, maybe even before you could make amends. I only say all this because both Ellie and Abby’s motivations are CLEARLY spelled out, but you CHOSE to ignore them
Also, do remember these are teenagers we’re talking about, sure by society standards they’re “grown adults” but tell me what 18-19 years olds are actually grown.
@@IFluxWithIt You're funny. You make all these statements without knowing a single thing about me. I experienced more pain, suffering, and tragedy in my life before I was 18 than most cities experience in a decade. By the time I was 19, I was not only in the military, but stationed in Japan and forward deployed. I already had multiple combat deployments before 9/11. Heck, I was on counter drug operations in South America when the towers fell. That doesn't mean I ever let anything cripple me emotionally or made foolish decisions out of fear and anger. Nothing ever traumatized me because nothing can. I'm an old man now, retired and held together with pins, screws, and metal, and I'm still stronger than just about everyone I meet. Life is hard and it only gets harder. I never complained about it, and I'm a more sensitive and loving father because of the hardships I've had to endure. Trust me, you learn patience when you have to learn how to walk again. Pain takes a new definition when your physical therapy is so painful you laugh from the endorphins and dopamine your brain releases so you don't pass out. TL;DR Ellie and Abby are dumb and their motivations are confused at best and nonsense the rest of the time. Edit: Oh, and I'm an alcoholic who hasn't had a drink in two decades, so I understand addiction and how easy it is to beat. Not a day goes by I don't want one, but I just refuse.
one of my upperclassmen friends recommended this game to me, and i told her i didnt like the ending, but she just told me "youre not mature enough then". 🗿
I was pretty shocked upon first beating TLOU1 and coming online to read about other people's experiences. The biggest thing that confused me after going online and reading people's thoughts about the ending of the game was the notion that Joel's actions at the end of TLOU weren't justified, and that lots of people didn't want to go through with what he did. When I first played TLOU there was no grey morality at all to it for me, these people were about to kill the daughter I'd grown to love and weren't even going to get her consent for her 'sacrifice', which I think they could've actually gotten pretty easily. Not giving Ellie a choice and not letting Joel talk to her if they did was crazy and I felt no qualms whatsoever about mowing my way through them to stop them from killing my daughter. That on top of all the audio logs in the game that basically tell you 'they will probably not find the cure by doing this'. I was certain the ending was going to build toward a moment where they basically convince Ellie to go through with it and that Joel would kill them for it, but sever their relationship as a result. Instead he just protected her like a good man should. The notion that I was supposed to hesitate or feel any remorse for attacking that doctor was crazy, I would do everything Joel did at the end of TLOU in a heartbeat, and anyone who doesn't get it doesn't have a daughter or niece. He simply did what any male guardian would try and do in that scenario. I think not telling Ellie about it is probably worse than what he actually did.
Comment was made before getting far into the video, love what you had to say about the correct interpretation of TLOU being the one you had since it was so open-ended. Very excited to finish the video and even check out the rest of the channel!
Just as Abby is about to drown.... Ellie is shaking with anger. She pulls Abby up and says... "Joel might have taken your dad from you. But you took my dad from me. If I have to live the rest of my life wishing I had more time. Then so do you. You don't get to rush this."
I just want to correct a detail. The Ellie revenge journey happens few days after Joels death as Tommy asked Ellie to wait him for one day. There's absolutely anything that suggests it took months to Ellie and Tina to follow Tommy.
To clarify, GuvNuhh is correct. It took Dina and Ellie months to arrive in Seattle (hence the seasons changing), but the decision to leave to Seattle to get revenge was only a few days after Joel's death.
I would think it took maybe 1-2 months to get from Jackson to Seattle. The seasons changing isn’t as much of an indicator since Seattle doesn’t get snow, but it does have days of torrential rain followed by nice sunny days during the winter…like what you see in the game. There was also a newer journal entry when you arrive in Seattle about Dina getting sick “a few weeks back” and if I remember correctly, when Dina admits to Ellie that she’s pregnant Ellie says something of the same effect, that they could’ve turned back weeks ago. And the girl math time indicator…Dina says she was suspicious but not sure when they left Jackson so she’d probably just missed a period (6 weeks along is usually when your spidey senses start tingling). She’s just starting to have first trimester sickness, not showing (which usually happens around 4 months) and still fits her jeans! So it couldn’t have been that long since they left Jackson.
I feel like they should have had the first half been from abby's perspective. Build up her group and her perspective, and then mid game have the joel scene. That might have made more people care for her before crap went down. Compared to seeing the act she did to a beloved character as one of the first things she did and trying to build up our care for her after. I didn't know who she was and we spent so long trying to kil her that when it changed to her perspective, I was like, "Okay, but who cares about this scum? I don't. and I won't feel bad if she died."
I think the point is you're supposed to hate her and want nothing but to kill her before you learn her backstory. The game is trying to immerse you in Ellie's POV after Joel's death.
But then you run into a farrrrr bigger issue if Abby's section is first. By the time we get to the Farm sequence, most are starting to feel it's length, only because of how heavy the game has been. We then see Ellie's journey isn't finished because she's not at peace, she's drowning, so in her mind she has to leave. And as a player, we fucking hate that, we don't want her to leave Dina and JJ to go after Abby again. Santa Barb is about an hour to 2.5 hours, depending on the player and difficulty, and all that time you hate Ellie had left. Meanwhile if Abby's section was first and we came to like and care for Abby and her crew, by the time we switch to Ellie, you now have a whole lotta people who are on Abby's side, who understood why she did what she did, and saw revenge didn't help her in the slightest. It didn't bring her peace, satisfaction, happiness, didn't bring her dad back, nothing. She wasted years for that moment and it didn't make a difference, she's was just as broken as she was before she killed Joel. We would've seen all of that. And so come the Ellie's switch, you have that conflict, the same conflict most people had with the Santa Barb section, BUT instead of an hour to two hours feeling that, you're now feeling that for 10-14 hours. They needed you fully behind Ellie and the revenge journey she was about to embark on, but they wanted you to slowly question when enough was enough, because you were starting to see how it was affecting Ellie and how it was changing her too. They then wanted to see if you could empathize with someone you hated, to understand where Abby was coming from, to walk miles in her shoes
@IFluxWithIt yeah, but that's not how a lot of people work when they empathize. Abby is a horrible person who does horrible things to others (not just Joel). Joel is also a horrible person who has done horrible things to others. The difference? Joel wasn't introduced as the antagonist we hunted for over 10 hours. Also, Ellie is also a pretty horrible person, but we overlook it cause we like her. She kills a lot of people and in messed up ways too. it's hard for a lot of people to have empathy for Abby because we already don't like her. The game goes out of its way to make us hate her and does nothing to make her likable even when she becomes the player character. Had they put Joel in a similar situation in the first game, most people wouldn't like him, just like how most people don't like Abby. Because they try to build a connection tens of hours into the game with Abby, most people won't care because she is already the bad guy, and nothing she could do will change that. That's just how a lot of people think, so why a lot of people hate her. At least us feeling conflict would have been better than just thinking, "oh wow, this game is pretty preachy, I wish Abby was dead already why do I have to play as her?" Though to add, Maybe if the Wolves weren't actually scumbag it might have worked too, but the torture and killing of all outsiders tells you a lot about the faction Abby is from in terms of liability.
Holy crap what a Herculean effort this was, and I was so compelled I listened to the end WAITING to hear what happened next, even though I know this story already! Man, you are an excellent storyteller and writer. I felt your themes and parallels so heavily, with each new reveal i could feel the gut punch it was. I understood where basically every character was coming from, and found myself empathizing with these people doing horrible things after horrible thing. Absolutely incredible.
Cabbage is better! And thank you for your kind words! Yes, this was a big undertaking to sketch out and produce, but I was really hoping people would enjoy it. Appreciate you watching!
It’s funny I never watched anyone play it to see their reaction to the end of the first one but I guess since I’m a parent I did NOT hesitate to kill the doctor like I walked in and just shot him so seeing everyone hesitate made me realize i was a lil too much like Joel while playing 😅😅
omg dude same like i never once second guessed or questioned his decisons. like i was like meh this kinda sucks i feel bad because the doctors aren't like, actively attacking me... but at the same time no fucking way would i let anyone harm my baby. not a moment of hesitation. i hate that part 2 retconned the hospital scene, super disappointing druckmann was trying to push a narrative of joel being some big bad awful guy when a lot of people would do the same.
Ellie is not Joels child! U are weird. A strange man trying to turn this random girl into his new daughter people would call that a sick fuck or a weirdo or a potential pedo. Funny how common sense disappears when u play the badguy & see a different pov. 🤔
Too much like Joel? Or too much like what a normal person would do? Scary people would even be willing to sacrifice a child for a POSSIBILITY of a cure
@@technibabe even after playing the second one my view point hasn’t changed on Joel at all so I think Neil was stupid to do that. So Neil wasted his time trying to make Joel the bad guy 😂 I truly hate how the second game TRIES to make you feel bad about the first one. Even while playing and hearing the things Ellie says is so stupid. I wish it focused on Ellie using her immunity to fight against people like that one scene where she shoves her fist in the infecteds mouth was AWESOME!! I wish we were saving Joel instead of avenging him and trying to change our view point. Sorry my response is long I just really love the game 😭😭
The craziest part is that, based on some of the documents in that room, all they really needed was a sample of her blood with the cordyceps that rendered her immune from the bad ones. She didn't need to be killed at all. The whole game's plot is centered on a false premise. That and the lack of player choice at the end makes LoU2 an unfortunate disaster.
Much like Ellie couldn't sleep during the Santa sabra chapter i couldn't after finishing the game. The one thing i thought about is how this story's layout/structure could have made a much more significant impact on us as a player. and how certain events completely eliminated any build up it had. Thank god somone did it before i drove myself insane trying to do it myself.
0:27 This is just "Oh you think you can do better" put in a different way. It's like going to a restaurant, saying you don't like the taste of a meal, and the chef going "well can you do it better?"
I can fix The Last of Us Part II with one simple change, and I’m honestly baffled the developers didn’t include it. When Joel and Tommy save Abby and meet her group, there should’ve been a brief but impactful moment: Joel: “Tommy, I don’t got a good feeling about this.” Tommy: “About what?” Joel: “These people. Camping this close to Jackson without being spotted by our patrols? Either they’re real good at not being spotted or intentionally hiding from them." Tommy: “Joel, calm down. If they wanted to do something, they’d have done it by now.” then the scene goes as it does when joel dies. This change works because in the first game, Joel is consistently portrayed as cautious and paranoid-“He ain’t even hurt”-and in this game, he makes Ellie wear her gas mask even when she doesn’t need it, just in case someone might notice her breathing spores. This conversation would give Tommy a powerful emotional arc. He’d blame himself, thinking, “Joel tried to warn me, but I didn’t listen. I got him killed!” This guilt would make Tommy’s later actions toward Ellie-when he pressures her to seek revenge-feel more believable and emotionally charged. It creates a more layered conflict and a tragic sense of regret, making Tommy’s character arc far more compelling. This one simple interaction, in my opinion, would have significantly improved The Last of Us Part II. As it stands, Joel's behavior in that scene feels completely out of character. Throughout the first game, and even earlier in the second, Joel is consistently portrayed as cautious and distrustful-'He ain't even hurt'-and he makes Ellie wear her gas mask even when it’s unnecessary, just to avoid any risk. But suddenly, when faced with Abby’s group, he’s completely at ease, dropping his guard without hesitation. It feels like lazy writing, a shortcut to move the plot forward at the cost of Joel’s established character. This isn’t just a mistake; it’s character assassination. A brief moment of hesitation, a quick exchange with Tommy expressing Joel’s unease, would have preserved his character while still allowing the story to unfold as intended.Additionally, it would have echoed the moment from the beginning of the first game when Tommy tries to stop the car for people stranded on the side of the road, but Joel refuses. That moment perfectly captured Joel's survival mindset and cautious nature. Recreating that dynamic here would not only have stayed true to Joel’s character but also reinforced the bond-and tension-between him and Tommy.Instead, we got a version of Joel that feels unfamiliar and inconsistent, undermining the emotional weight of his death.
As a person who absolutely LOVES this game as it is, these edits and changes were amazing. I'm 100% glad we got the game that we did, but these changes definitely make the story feel more thorough and thought out. 100% feels more focused on the cycle of violence theme the writers were focusing on. As I've said, I love the game as it is, but these fixes would somehow make my #1 game of all time, even better. Great job.
Here’s my rewrite for Joel’s death. Abby tries to spring her trap on Joel and Tommy, but the teleporting dead barge in and interrupt like they usually do. That gives Joel and Tommy a chance to make a break for it. But being cornered by Abby’s friends on one side and a horde of the infected on the other, you as the player are forced to try fighting or sneaking your way out. But Abby is an inevitable boss fight no matter what. The Malenia, Blade of Miquella of TLOU2 that will make the player’s/Joel’s death feel actually earned and well fought.
Time for some cabbages Honestly, the melding of the stories to make them more precise or believable like it was in the first chapter. You phrased it in a manner where it makes sense. The main problem that I’ve always felt with the game is what you addressed briefly. That we spent countless hours and time with Ellie and Joel and maybe an hour at most with Abby before takes Joel on a golf pro tour. I thought a way to address this (along with massive world building along the way) is just to ignore Ellie and Joel for the sequel for most of the game. We go in depth with Abby’s world, a world post apocalypse beyond Joel and Ellie. The game remains vague throughout on her motivation for revenge for her father, sprinkling details along the way. She defies her leaders with a small group to follow a developing lead. Then plot separated her from her group, but fate encounters her with Ellie. And strangers are working together to survive. As the game settles, Ellie and Abby separate. But Ellie drops a patrol map. A map that leads back to her home - to Jackson. The flashbacks come and her motives are revealed to us as the viewer. Then she comes back to her group and tells them that they found where he’s living. And that she can finally get revenge on Joel. And the game ends. This saves time and confusion with time skipping building Abby up. We can stay for the most part in the present, with Joel flashbacks through the game as they are. Joel can die in the beginning and there would be more conflict with us as the viewer because we’ve had so much time with both Abby and Ellie and their stories. We can feel the empathy that Druckmann wanted. Then we can go through the story with more precise story melding as you described it and it would be more feeling of empathy for everyone because we are mowing down people we’ve spent time with. I don’t know. With the series coming up to season 2, who knows if there will be changes. It’d be crazy if Neil Druckmann sees this and implements this in the series.
HOLY CABBAGE!!! I love how your version of this game fixed parts of the story and gives the player the choice to do what they think is right. Not many games do that. Please keep doing what you're doing!
I love your description for an alternate narrative for this story! I think if it were my decision, I would have us start as Abby and play her perspective up to when she leaves for Jackson. We get to learn about her and her friends before falling back into the familiarity of Ellie and Joel. Then switch to Ellie and have her part play out like you described, forcing Joel to come save her and getting the final flashback for Abby to learn her motivations. Then pump up the tension of that situation, knowing what Abby is going to do (and I think it would be important to have us play as Abby in a boss fight with Joel, to show Joel hasn't lost his touch). I think this would be a good spot to give us the "forgiveness" flashback to show that Ellies new motivations are revenge for Joel but also regret for not getting the chance to forgive Joel. She's angry at Abby for taking both of those away from her. As for the ending I agree 100% with you. It should've been a new Fireflies camp and you are forced to come to terms with Joel's actions and accept the cycle of violence, or finally understand that the only way the violence ever ends is with empathy and forgiveness.
@@charlesman8722 But the only problem about that is that lev if he survives somehow and ellie killed abby he will pull an abby and try and get revenge on ellie
Agreed. I thought about writing the multiple endings, and one where Ellie took Lev under her wing and told him Abby left (when Ellie killed her), but Lev has plenty of reasons not to trust Ellie whereas Joel lying to Ellie was the first time she had a reason to not trust Joel. Couldn’t make it work.
Wow. Never have I related to a video more in my life. Every single point you made, every thought, every rationalization, it was all perfect down to the last minute detail
So, I think your version makes me understand what the game wanted us to feel by the end of the game, and kind of sheds a new light on the game and allows me to appreciate it slightly more, and yet I still wish for something more like your version
This game is so special to me. The years leading up to it, I blindly bought into the hate mob on youtube about it. But something compelled me to play it myself once it came out, and I ended up loving it, I've never been more immersed in a game's world and the ending had me thinking about it for months. So when i saw this video i felt hesitant, but I have to say, I agree with your changes, I think they are really good. I already believed the story was much better going back and forth between Ellie and Abby, I even made saves at certain spots so i could play it that way. Anyway I really like your ideas and I secretly hope now that Season 2 of the show might do things similarly.
I've watched quite a few videos "fixing" this game's story and honestly didn't expect much coming into this video but man you killed it. Genuinely would love to see this version of the story somehow
I completely disagree with the viewers shown in the end of the 1st game. The fireflies were going to murder an innocent teenage girl who was passed out without even discussing it with her or giving her guardian an option and hoping that they could create a cure and successfully distribute it to the world (and not just their own people as is likely what the firefiles would do). The fireflies were obviously the villains, and they were very evil ones at that. This is also why Abby was not justified. She was getting revenge for the death of her villainous, piece of garbage dad and would have done the same evil acts he was going to. Also, your version of the story is way better than what we got.
The idea I was gonna empathize with a character who despite being saved still murdered “me” from the first game after being saved by “me” is insane. Of course I hate her and want her dead and was never gonna accept the story being anything but me enacting vengeance. I can’t empathize with someone who clearly lacks empathy, I would struggle to enact vengeance on someone as is let alone if that person saves me.
I tried writing a comment alongside this video while watching it, and you ended up doing almost everything I thought I would have. The only differences I have, are emphasizing how much Abby is like Joel (almost as if, Ellie carried his skill for violence, Abby his intention for it, and her intention gave Ellie both, which is what caused her to be lost), and shifting events to make it so Abby isn't shown killing joel under after the reason for her killing is stated, and even emphasized more deeply than in the real story. Then, you can make Dinah Ellie's Lev; the person that pulls her back from violence but with a different lesson than, "revenge passes on pain"; "what does revenge give you?". You could have a scene of Ellie explaining why Joel was killed to Dinah and have her struggle to hold a position on him, and elluding to the idea that his intial actions caused this Addendum: this is a small thing, but one touch to to add to the idea that they're both reflections of Joel, is to make it so they both sort of understand the whisling language of the prim society; Ellie through Joel teaching her something similar, and Abby, through going through a phase where she didn't speak after her father's death.
All we ever needed was the absolute cold blooded murder of Abby at the end. I think it’s too much to ask us to try and like the person who brutally killed Joel in front of Ellie. No. I truly believe Abby dying would have been a better end.
@@jasonkoch2503 yeah I get why she was there and that’s why she came but she shows no to little hesitation, you’d think she would be a little hesitant after what he did, she realizes in that he’s not this heartless monster she built him up as.
Many critics about the story is not just What happens but also HOW its told: In Part2 having to play 3 days as Ellie with the theatre climax and then being forced to play 3 days again as Abby to the same thearte climax is just nervewrecking and annoying in later playthroughs. Then there are the flashbacks that just jump all over time. I would rather play the events in chronological order, and I liked Part1´s streamlined story better...
I love your idea of encountering a Firefly compound at the end of the game, I agree that would have fit so much better with the themes of forgiveness/violence.
One of the things I hate is the certainty of the vaccine's production. We don't know what stage the research on Cordyceps is at, if all that was really missing was something like Ellie to complete the studies. Ellie dying during the sample collection is plausible, but the certainty of a vaccine being produced using something they haven't even studied is not at all plausible. I think everyone understands Joel's feelings and his decision-making, but the uncertainty of the vaccine's production would be a stronger argument, even though it is the best chance the Fireflies have found.
One curious tension I feel like this game keeps going back and forth on is the degree to which it aspires to be 'realistic' and 'grounded' while distinctly operating in a space where the world conforms to the needs of the story, and feels like it does not exist outside of it. Obviously all fiction is constructed in this way but many great games construct their worlds and stories in such a way that convenient events or contrivances don't end up slipping through to put everyone on their narrative paths. Abby finds Joel because she knew a guy who knew Tommy who said a thing to a person. Ellie goes to Santa Barbra because Tommy knew a guy who did a thing and heard a thing that happened to be what they needed. Ellie, a 19 year old with limited combat experience, rambos the WLF, Scars AND Infested as good as if not better than Abby, someone who grew up as part of a militia group and then manages to go toe to toe with her or her associates on multiple occasions. Obviously part of this is genre convention but The Last of Us (first game included) has so few moments of unceremonious or unfortunate coincidences that break easy narrative pathways to a thematic end point. So few (if any) important characters unceremoniously get shot in a gunfight and die before anyone could get them aid, and the only times we see friendly people get infected (from my memory) are always these grand dramatic reveals with setup and payoff and closure. It ends up with the mean and violent parts of the game/world feeling less like the logical or natural conclusion for the world simply being like that and instead being the result of a storyteller trying to go 'ooooh isnt this nasty!' cabbages :)
Loved the video, both in idea and execution. was so fun for me and my wife to relive the first to games here and then agree with your idea on TLOU2. Amazing stuff.
I love your new version but my main thing is I’d still probably try to switch in terms of days or maybe even act for Ellie and abby. I think too many switches scene-to-scene would be jarring and muddy the gameplay because they both have different playsets and switching too often would make it confusing. But overall I agree that a lot of events (ie abby randomly finding Joel, confusing motivations, abby stumbling across Ellie’s map) should be rehauled bc a lot of it doesn’t make sense and gets frustrating. I would even say Jerry being Abby’s dad could be revealed near the beginning of the game and the game should stay in the present because the flashbacks mess up the pace of the game, especially with switches between abby and Ellie already occurring
This retelling is something I definitely would love to play as your story has one of the best arcs and keeps the tension high throughout honestly better than I would of imagined!
This Video Is Very Refreshing To Watch. This Rewrite Shows How Little Changes Would’ve Made This Story What It Deserved To Be. It’s A Dam Shame We Got The Sequel We Got To The Masterpiece That Is TLOU1
Great video! I finished last of us part 2 and the one thing I would change is that Abby should have killed Dina, Abby had a bad relation with Mel but she respected her as we can see when they were leaving the Wolves basement after going to jackson and when she had a knife pointed at Dina she could even get a flashback of Mel bashing her and saying something like This is for you and avenge Mel's death by killing dina which would make way more sense for Ellie to go after Abby in Santa Barbara
I I would’ve made it better: Abby tries to take out Ellie but she overpowers and kills Abby, she gets her revenge, and everyone goes home happy…. Well except for Jesse cause he already died and Lev goes to Santa Barbara alone, and hair metal plays over the soundtrack. Happy ending! Or so we thought because Ellie and Co get killed by rat kings in the mid credits scene
52:03 now this may break the rules, but I’d add the empathy and choices as game mechanics. The more enemies you kill and mow down, the more violent and vengeful Ellie becomes, the less you kill and mow down, the more regretful Ellie becomes and more afraid to kill. Which would lead to the ending, of which there are 3 possible. Ending 1: if you took the vengeful and violent path, the only option is kill Abby after the fight as your choice to make Ellie keep increasing her violence makes HER choose to kill Abby with no feelings or mindset to let her go, just like how the first games ending is what Joel wants. What Ellie does would probably be her walking off with heavy breathing. Ending 2: one of two endings that will be achieved by Ellie killing less and having regrets. The player is given the choice to either kill Abby or let her go. This ending is when you choose to let Abby go, which would just be the ending the game has already so no explanations here. Ending 3: one of two endings that will be achieved by Ellie killing less and having regrets. This time, the player chooses to kill Abby, but like previously in game, Ellie sits there and starts to regret doing it, maybe realizing she was just like Abby killing Joel, while also sitting in regret of killing anyone else on the way to this moment (mostly who you were required to kill, though it would obviously exclude the wild religious groups because they were people who 100% deserved it)
The last of us 2 reminds me of the movie The Revenant where both characters lost a family member, travel half a continent just for revenge but in the movie he gets some closure but the true story He doesn’t get revenge he’s killer gets away Ellie practically gives up on the revenge for no reason at the end it’s a pretty disappointing ending. Like I understand the message “ revenge doesn’t help “ but this is a post apocalyptic world most modern morality wouldn’t work its like bringing in a person for 11th century and bringing them to 21st century he going to have completely different world view If they really had some guts Abby would of gotten away Scot free and Ellie did all that travelling for nothing to be honest it would of been a better ending than the one we got.
They should have made Abby’s story a separate game that acted as a bridge before part 2. Here me out: -We start with Abby and her friends all young, celebrating their friendship against the end of the world. They are referring to the fact that Ellie has arrived and they may finally get a cure, but we the audience are not told this directly. -We then see a nightmare from Abby that shows chopped up interpretations of the massacre without showing it was the day Joel killed her father and other fireflies. -We then start the game with Abby post execution, with the contrast showing that the friendships she had are different to the start. -It is then a back and forth like the game where we see Abby becoming the WLF soldier and her dealing with her revenge being done. Everyone alludes to the man is ‘Miller’ but never Joel. -Whilst this is happening, Abby’s friends are being killed one-by-one in a ‘I Know What You Did Last Summer’ style that is unknown who is doing it. -We get to the end point, with the final levels being a back and forth to Jackson and the downfall of WLFs & Seraphites. We finally get back to the aquarium to find the last of Abby’s friends murdered and with a clue as to where the killer is. -The Jackson confrontation happens, with the reveal being that it is Joel Miller that killed Abby’s father, whilst also showing Abby outside the movie theatre. The scene is played out to a menacing guitar solo, before cutting to the back of an older Ellie, revealed to be the killer in question. This would have given the chance for the audience to sympathise with Abby without the Joel bias and would have been the perfect set up to Ellie’s story.
Neil has many interviews/talks about making the characters & story feel believable, the the TLOU 2 has several moments of absurd luck or character doing something they would never do IRL that completely destroyed the game for me. Your fix made a lot more sense. Thank you. I wish ND would remaster it and do it your way.
I absolutely loved your version. I doubt this would happen, but I would love for someone to make your version of The Last of Us Part 2. Amazing work!!!!
I don't think you've managed to fix everything, my man. Although, there are two things I definitely liked about your take: 1- *Removing Joel and Tommy's mistake at the start.* While I can't fully agree that it was uncharacteristic, I do like the idea of Ellie’s role in Joel's death. The game establishes Joel is trying to change for Ellie, but the space to elaborate is limited. Having Ellie somehow responsible for Joel's death is a brilliant solution. Some people even theorize that Tommy’s involvement in Joel's death might change in HBO’s S2, given how little we see him with Joel early on. 2- *Ellie’s actions affecting Abby’s side of the story.* I think Abby should only fear the consequences of her revenge after facing Tommy. Otherwise, I don't see Abby risking the safety of her friends. But I agree the game does miss an opportunity to make us face and anticipate Ellie's choices. I love the concept of both Ellie and Abby trying to get to Nora first. What simply doesn't work out: 1- *Showing Abby's and Ellie's sides together.* Showing Abby’s story after Ellie’s is crucial to the narrative, as the game delves into the complexities of war and conflict, such as sides being unable to fully understand each other. The game challenges us to question our lack of sympathy, but Ellie doesn't have the luxury of a "safe place" to question hers. It is a design choice that both Ellie and Abby never get to say each other a single word in relationship to their journeys; only sparing each other over the consequence of their violence. 2- *Joel seeking revenge on the higher-up who ordered Sarah’s death feels uncharacteristic* and Abby shouldn’t just start moving on after killing Joel. The characters' struggles with moving on are central to the games-they can only heal through connection with others. 3- *Multiple endings.* The first game let us form our own opinion but didn't offer a choice beyond Joel’s method of murder, tying into the franchise’s theme of tribalism and conflict inevitability. This is Ellie's story, not the player’s; and the main character isn’t meant to be a canvas. It ain't Half-Life. My interpretation of Ellie’s choice to spare Abby is that killing her would have brought pain, something she was willing to do to deal with her guilt. But, by coming to terms with the fact that everything that happened-everything she, Joel, and by extension, Abby, did- would have always happened because of their nature, she forgives Joel and then herself. Thus allowing her to stop her self-destructive cycle. Ellie didn't forgive Abby. She got simply tired of destroying her own sense of self. Allowing the choice to kill Abby completely undermines this. Something incompatible with the original intent.
I like your rewrite of the beginning but also the scene where joel dies is the first scene where we see joel and ellie together in one room and it is heartbreaking and also this scene feels different after every flashback I think ellies obsession with the revenge is mostly anger at herself she didn't forgive him he died before she had a chance to forgive him she was robbed of that chance at santa barbara she doesn't care for abby or revenge (in the diary she asks herself why is she even here) she just thinks she can could forgive herself for not forgiving joel while he was alive if only she can get rid of the reason she didn't have the time and when she let her go its ellie forgiving herself what i actually don't like about the ending is how ellie loses everything while abby loses nothing (sure her friends are dead but she would have parted ways with them ether way so it doesn't really mater) ellie loses her family, connection to BOTH of her parents (her mothers knife is somewhere in the sea), two fingers, her friends thats the way I interprited the ending
I think the simplest fix is just have jesse live until at the very least santa barbara with ellie, have him go with you and be an extra catalyst for why dina leaves at the end of the game. His death is way more misplaced then joels has ever been accused of.
@@KevinHelpUs no girl thats not a compliment you completely changed the game into something utterly unrecognisable. This 'making the game better' is just erasing any intentional message the game tried to convey. Your media literacy is dead.
Ya know, I just discovered your channel yesterday after playing through the Dead Space Remake and watching your Dead Space videos, and I just wanted to say that I really love your videos! I love your quips and humor, it's not overstated that it's distracting but not too dry or subtle that it goes unnoticed, it's just enough to lighten the mood and keep me engaged. And I find your explanations of the games and their stories and themes to be really insightful and well-structured. And of course with this "Fixing ____" series, I really appreciate the rules you put in place for your criticisms and think they're very fair and uncommon standards to put in place. I just really love what you're doing here, and can tell you put a lot of thought and effort into everything. Especially your edits, I love when the points your making or dialogue you're using is put over a small scene of gameplay that relates to the topic at hand. I imagine that can be quite challenging, especially to do consistently. So yeah, keep it up, I'll be looking forward to whatever you come up with next, and I hope you have a wonderful day and a good 2025!! ✨✨✨
Everyone else: "I don't want to kill the doctor!"
xQc with no facial expression: 5:49
Had me dying. 🤣☠️
"I mean I just pressed triangle" got me dying. "I don't know this man I'm not his accomplice".
Right? Who dafuq are these people? Where did they find these softies? You DIDNT want to kill the doctors???? Bitches lol
😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@Ic3h0rnEt14 xQc be hella gay though
I really liked the added flashback with Joel explaining how he became a smuggler, it really clicked everything together with Joel's history and feels borderline canon.
When I had the idea, I dug into it, and was surprised that they’ve never answered who gave the soldier the order to kill Joel and Sarah. Maybe it’ll come up in 3?
@@KevinHelpUs it might and is a really good posibility it shows how he became numb just like Ellie did at the very end of the last of us 2
Nora- “your breathing spores.”
- “your her.”
Ellie - “ uh I identify as they/them
bigot.”
@@KevinHelpUs I don’t think it’s really that important to the story. Sarah was killed because the military would rather exterminate the roots than the infected during the evacuation. It just shows how ruthless the military was willing to be and later on became their most well-known trait. The guy who gave the order probably received it from even upper higher-ups.
@KevinHelpUs Imo they shouldn’t do a third game, but if they’re going to anyway it should be about completely different characters in a completely different part of America. I feel that they really fumbled the bag with the second game but if they did a third about these same characters they’d be beating the dead horse, not much they can do with them that wouldn’t feel forced.
That's my main issue with the story. I was upset Joel died but I was okay that he did. What I didn't like is how his murderers were just handed the man on a silver platter.
Joel has never been a relaxed guy, he knows people in the world hate him, he knows how to be smart.
Yet somehow he just gives his name to complete strangers? Doesn't even try to hide who he is all of a sudden? Tommy too like wth happened to these characters?
They were never that chill about giving their names.
@dash9641 I felt the same way too. I thought there were too many coincidences and I wanted to see what Abby would've done if she had no choice but to infiltrate Jackson. How would she do it, and would she have killed innocent people to get to Joel that could potentially start a war with Jackson.
Abby got her revenge and walked away with clean hands, apposed to Ellie who killed countless people who had nothing to do with Joel's death, then when she about to kill Abby, she let's her go?!!! Such a bizarre ending
@@dash9641 actually Tommy has always been this way he never was like his brother that’s what caused them to even split apart in the first place, I do agree about the Joel part but Joel’s not the one who gave the names Tommy is and think about the situation realistically you find a 19-20 year old girl all alone visibly shook from what has just occurred and now she’s alone with 2 grown male strangers, Tommy did the thing he would do and that’s to comfort and make her feel a little safer by introducing them to make things familiar and that’s the tragedy of it cause he incidentally causes his own brothers death. But I do agree it’s super coincidental and I also have a small problem with it.
@@smoke-o-time3913 you have to understand that Ellie’s mental was faltering throughout the story and you see that through things like the chance they get to go home to Jackson when they think they know where Tommy is but she decides to keep going to Abby even though she’s already killed almost all of Abby’s friends she keeps going, the game tries to make it as apparent as possible that Ellie is starting to do this for her own selfish desire rather than for Joel or for anything else. This caused her to have to kill all these people along the way and Abby’s part is that she did have to deal with killing and things like that on the way I understand the frustrations of the dumb coincidence that she ran into Joel but I also think that for 4 year she had to deal with knowing the identity of her fathers killer and not being able to find him plus she’s not the person her father would’ve wanted her to be and she starts to realize that later on in the game when she runs into lev and yara and begins to care for them when the day before she talked about killing kid seraphites and that it would be their fault but once she takes care of these kids her nightmares go away and she starts to finally have sleep filled nights without jolting up in the morning after 4 years it was the first time she got a good nights sleep, the game is all about perspective so saying that Abby didn’t go through anything to get to Joel isn’t fully correct
@@dash9641 one of the dumber criticisms for all the reasons other guy said. You’re literally making things up. What you said isn’t what happened
@@aidenwilliams2889 Bro what are you even talking about? That is literally what happened in the game.
Tommy gave out their names like idiots and Joel just went along with it despite that going against everything he's been shown to do up until then. We have already seen Joel is not stupid enough to fall for that that crap in the first game.
Joel legit called out a attempted ambush and even during the fall of humanity he was untrusting of people and refused to help a family stuck on a road asking for help. He legit told Tommy to keep driving.
You seem to be forgetting that part in your attempt to make me look like I don't know. That is the whole reason that ambush from Abby didn't work for so many people and why OP made it something Ellie would fall for instead because Joel just wouldn't after everything we have seen of him.
I'm genuinely shocked Joel hadn't already talked to Tommy about just handing out their real names like candy assuming everyone is friendly. Would of been an extremely important thing to talk about so the very thing that ends up getting Joel killed doesn't happen.
I understand joels perspective in saving ellie. Not only did he grow to love her as a daughter, but they didnt even wake ellie up to ask if she wanted this. They were just going to straight up murder her for the cure. She didn't get to make the choice to sacrifice herself.
Yeah that's the biggest thing that confused me after going online and reading people's thoughts about the ending of the game.
When I first played TLOU there was no grey morality at all to it for me, these people were about to kill the daughter I'd grown to love and weren't even going to get her consent for her 'sacrifice', which I think they could've actually gotten pretty easily. Not giving Ellie a choice and not letting Joel talk to her if they did was crazy and I felt no qualms whatsoever about mowing my way through them to stop them from killing my daughter. That on top of all the audio logs in the game that basically tell you 'they will not find the cure by doing this'. I was certain the ending was going to build toward a moment where they basically convince Ellie to go through with it and that Joel would kill them for it, but sever their relationship as a result. Instead he just protected her like a good man should.
The notion that I was supposed to hesitate or feel any remorse for attacking that doctor was crazy, I would do everything Joel did at the end of TLOU in a heartbeat, and anyone who doesn't get it doesn't have a daughter or niece. He simply did what any male guardian would try and do in that scenario.
And don't forget they weren't even confident that this would produce a cure. They were just going to butcher her and hope for the best.
@stone5252 the people who say they wouldn't do everything possible to protect somebody their responsible for, have never had to be responsible for anybody before in their lives and I am convinced of that.
There is a psychological experiment called the trolley problem which isn't understood by the wider populace, the way it goes is that a trolley is heading towards a rail with 5 people on it but you can turn the trolley so that it just goes into 1 person.
Now many peoples reaction to that is just whichever number is greater or less equals what's the bigger evil, but if you replace that 1 person to say your daughter, or brother, or father, then people should start changing their answers I know I would because the way I see it is strangers die everyday, so if I have to choose between someone important to me or a bunch of Joe schmos that's an obvious answer
I m pretty sure ellie knew about it all along but never told Joel for that exact reason
@@pintolerance785 Exactly. It's the trolley problem taken to its nth degree. Your loved on vs the world.
We think the story could’ve been improved simply by adding that guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender who yells, “MY CABBAGES!” whenever his supply gets destroyed. It’s a lot like how people call out the names of whomever you just killed in game, but way funnier and lighthearted.
Sold. It's canon now.
Awesome. Also, this is probably the most likes we’ve ever received on a comment to date.
Is there one for the Scars who whistles out "MY CABBAGES!" as well?
ellie bumps into a jackson vegetable vendor and says the iconic line, while on the flipside abby does the exact same thing and the cabbage vendor says the same line. This sequence can also unironically serve as a tutorial on how to pick up items as you help with the mess you just caused
@ There’s so much looting in this game - it could work.
That was a pretty brilliant rewrite. Not only does it improve the pacing and numerous other things, but it really does seem to accomplish what the stated goal of the game was. I like the idea of leaving the final decision up to the player, and having different endings, in particular.
Nah, I'm way too indecisive for different endings.
I always end up pausing the game and looking online to see which one to pick for canon!!
@@Carl_Frank The crazy part is, Black Ops 2 had you choose if you took revenge or not.
*Black Ops 2* did it before TLOU2, ironically with more sympathetic characters considering the fact it’s a call of duty game.
Almost everyone sympathises with Menandez, whereas his TLOU2 counter part, Abby, is much more contentious, despite having more time to make her sympathetic.
I think it would be cool if there was a 6 hour part where Abby is tied down and Ellie is gorging herself on beans and hot sauce. Then Ellie has to poop a lot so you have to press X X X X X X to push the poop on Abby’s face.
@@hdhdhhehe6709 what in the Sam hell are you talking about
“Abby is dead,this is the part where I’m supposed to say I feel empty but I would be lying to myself.I finally feel awake like I can breathe again.and Joel nothing can change his death but maybe I can still do something that will make a difference”
Watch_Dogs
Watch dogs 1 was peak
I love aiden Pearce
I dont hate the face model shes pretty but i really hated how neil drickman almost ruined her
Watch Dogs writers were so based for this and it was 10 years ago
Lev tracking down the Jackson Five (Dinas baby counts) would’ve worked. I too hated the map showing their base lmao
"Jackson Five" 🤣
Well Ellie dropped it because she tried to be Joel and failed miserably. She was NOT prepared for the situation. She even told Mel and Owen they both could live, she just wanted Abby at that point.
Situation went pear shaped and she was forced to kill them, something she already didn’t want to do, then she finds out Mel was pregnant, which hit way too close to home for her. She was puking and having a panic attack.
Tommy and Jesse comfort Ellie but because neither of them were there how were they to know that the map was hers. Ellie only left it because she had a panic attack, which is VERY REAL, it happens all the time in REAL LIFE
@@IFluxWithItfirst of all, why the hell is a late term pregnant lady out in the dangerous field?
Secondly, suddenly Ellie has a conscious and doesn't want to hurt the people who isn't Abby...meanwhile she murdered dozens of their men with no hesitation up to that point.
Thirdly...marking a map and giving away your location is just dumb. Lol.
5:50 the contrast between his reaction and everyone else's combined with the blank expression on his face is what does it for me🤣🤣🤣
Xqc moment lmaoooo
@@thepeskyone One of the only times he's actually funny
@@Liam_Phoenix So true
This is DEFINITELY a better story than what we got and it fixed a lot if the criticisms towards the game but I still think it judges Joel in a very unfair manner. Despite trying to give Ellie a mirror image of Joel's last choice, it still wasn't at par w what Joel's situation was. In Joel's case, there was a timer on Ellie's life. He had to act fast because any delay can cause Ellie's demise. The fireflies had BOTH of them held hostage while in Ellie's case, she was an outsider looking in with no threat being posed to her own safety. Joel was cornered between a rock and a hard place. It doesn't help that he never believed in the fireflies and was eventually fucked over by them. Let's not forget that this mission cost him his last partner, Tess, and wasn't even being given the payment they were promised nor the respect he deserved for going all the way from Boston to SLC. Painting Joel to be a bad guy for not choosing the pacisift route/"having empathy" when the entire firefly organization showed him NEITHER empathy nor respect is kinda fucked up imo. The fireflies, a group bombing QZs with no regard to civilians, was never a good group. Let's stop pretending that they ever were.
@@taeminislove also a tape in last of us 1 says the operation was a 90 percent chance of failure on Ellie. So she would have died for nothing
@@thegamingcook785 I mean how can you forget that? That's literally the twist of the entire game, you think Ellie is this really special kid that can save the world until you realize there have been dozen others that all been sacrificed with nothing to show for it
@@thechugg4372 I think you misunderstood something. Joel saying there are many more like Ellie is a lie. It is also stated in the next game, and is also why Ellie is mad at Joel. So no, not a twist…
THANK YOU
@@thegamingcook785 Do you have a link to that tape cause I don't recall it.
Druckmann, if you watch this, hire this man as narrative lead on Part III, he knows his stuff.
Username checks out!
Yes, I agree. I love a closer looks version of the story and his version was awesome but even this version would still have the game at least at nine out of 10 because you’re not changing much of the story. The biggest improvement I’ve seen here was that Ellie had a hard time forgiving Joel, and Joel was still using his survival instinct, but Ellie wanted to call the shots and it ultimately got Joel killed that alone is a huge improvement to what we already got it must be a damn shame to have people who are fans of the last of us have better fan made ideas than the creator himself ain’t that some shit with that being said I give his perspective on the story changes five out of five stars
@@godzillazfriction what do you mean by that any other version of a story of the last of us content creators have posted has significantly been better than the original and my opinion I’m not seeking any validation I’m just complementing the UA-camr perspective which I like better than the creator of the last of us part two but if you wanna believe that, hey more power to you, it is what it is I don’t know how he explain it, but from what I watched in the video, Ellie makes a certain mistake which cost Joel his life, and that alone is more realistic than the story we originally got in the last of us part two because Joel would not fall for that very easily given what we have experience in the first game with him. Now I don’t know if you agree with that or not, but that’s my personal opinion but if you think I’m just seeking validation for my reason for commenting, I think you’re wrong on that. I got a life. I don’t need anybody’s validation, but it is what it is.
@ like I said, it’s my opinion whatever your perspective on it it’s fine I didn’t understand the me seeking validation part that you mentioned, but if that’s what you thought then you’re free to believe that. I just agree with the UA-camr and I commented on what he said in the video that’s it.
@@godzillazfrictionImagine being a legendary keyboard warrior that you intensely bait others for an online argument that doesn't need to be pushed further.
Chill dude.
The commenter had opinions and wanted to say it. They respected your opinion, and you can't do the same for them? They are not obligated in any way to answer your raging ego and have better things to do 😂
I've seen your other comments on this same video. Don't you have anything better to do than attacking people's opinion? Whether it's "disingenuous" or whatever, it's theirs. Not your business.
Q1: Did the game make me hate Abby as a person?
Answer: Yes. Yes it did.
Q2: Did I empathize with Abby by the end of the game.
Answer: No.
Yea i sympathized with her, but i wanted Ellie to finish the job at the end of the game. She killed my boy Joel 😢
Joel was just as big of a villain as Abby
@@blaringsea8923 another tlou point missed ❤️
The problem with the game I think is that it feels too one sided. It tries to justify Abby’s actions because she lost her father but she took a father from Ellie and more so.
I disagree, Abby's supposed to be a terrible person at the beginning of the game. The game literally tells and shows us this. The reason why it might feel one-sided is because the game is about her trying to redeem herself. While Ellie is currently going down the same path Abby once did.
So in your opinion, why is it ok for Elli to go on a rampage after her father figure was murdered, but not for Abby after her father was murdered?
That's the story, the game told.
Maybe your opposite has good reasons for their actions and maybe those reasons actually don't differ much from your own.
What? How does it justify Abby more? She DIDN’T GAIN A THING FROM KILLING HIM. It didn’t bring her peace, satisfaction, happiness, it didn’t suddenly make everything better. She spent years thinking it was gonna magically solve her problems and we quite literally see it didn’t
@@peterpaulister two reasons why it's not equivalent
1. Joel killing Abby's father in defense of Ellie was completely justified.
2. Abby was saved by Joel and had the opportunity to actually get to know the man. She chose to murder him anyways.
@Narutou01 oh no. Abbys father was killed by a rampaging rando, while performing surgery, that would safed thousands if not millions of lifes.
First person player as joel perspective is in no way the perspective of the character abby.
Joel was killed by a bunch of rampaging randos, while performing guard duty, protecting thousands of lifes. That's Ellis perspective, pretty similar to Abbys. 🤷♂️
15:05 imagine if they got the wrong Joel and that Joel would go “Whaaat? Im not Joel Miller, I’m Joel Johnson!”
They were going to a specific place to find a guy called Tommy that had a brother called Joel. Pretty slim pickings in that world.
@ Oh oke
@@lungfulldrummer8921 Is it slim pickings though? Cuz names are just that, the odds of people sharing first AND surnames are pretty high, all things considered
One of the things I hated about Abby was her lack of empathy or remorse for killing an old man who just saved her and continuing to do so without any problem in front of someone who seems to care for him.
The guy just saved you and you are able to feel that hatred and thirst for revenge as if it were nothing.
@DktorClzn Well yeah that's the point of her story, for her actually learn empathy and forgiveness
A number of folks have said this, and I totally see your point, but I'm gonna hot take this: I'm glad they had Joel save Abby before she killed him. It fits thematically with the rest of the story that - for a moment - Abby realized Joel was more than just the monster she's been imagining him to be. He still killed her father, saving her doesn't change that, and clearly she felt it was still right to go through with her plan - but it sets up the conflict the game wants the player to go through - could we see Abby as more than the one who killed Joel? Even if Abby couldn't see past Joel killing her father?
@@KevinHelpUs uh ... no it really doesn't it makes Abby completely 100% irredeemable as it just killed someone who risked his own lives to save it's
It's not complex writing it was lazy end of story.
If Joel was the psycho killer Abby claimed, Joel would not have done that and would have left Abby for dead. but Joel didn't do that, he showed true compassion and humanity, something Abby has NONE of. and is nothing more than a mentally ill animal acting purely on revenge, anger, and hatred. this is a VILLIAN not at all sympathetic in any way shape or form, her father was a murder just like Joel willing to kill Ellie to get to his goal and Joel the same.
There is ZERO moral high ground for it to stand on.
I like how you wrote the story, but i think a reason for abbys part being halfway through the story is because of gameplay
You play as Ellie, not really knowing what youre getting into, what the wolfs are like, who the scars are, learning how to play the game
But as abby you already know how to play, you know how the scars are like, what some of their whistles mean, etc
And you generally understand how things flow more, same way an inexperienced survivor of a town who does patrols around, killing mostly infected, has to figure out things by themselves in this foreign QZ vs a trained soldier who has been fighting these scars for years,
That’s smart. I never thought about it that way. What a genius way for Naughty Dog to go about that.
@@TDOI332 arguably the story suffered on that (pacing, triggering endless comments about "forcing abby down everyone's throat"), so I don't know if I would consider it truly "genius"
I would label it genius if they found a way to make both work seemlessly
@@d34thnote79 I don't have a huge issue with the story, but then again I didn't wait 7 years to play the game so my situation may be different. I think it's cool that the experience of the player is shown through the game's characters. Like @bananabird735 said, "You play as Ellie, not really knowing what you're getting into... learning how to play the game. But as Abby you already know how to play."
@@TDOI332 As far as @d34thnote79's argument goes, the game was pretty seamless for me; and I did play the first game after they had remastered it, but I already knew the story from watching playthroughs. To your argument, there are several UA-camrs that, like you, played both games for the first time back-to-back, and every one of them massively enjoyed BOTH games.
Yeah, thats's part of why I feel weird about cutting back and forth between characters, even if it would have helped explain each character's motivations better. But I have some doubts narrative wise as well. I think because the original sequencing forces you to spend a longer time only seeing from Ellie's perspective, that makes the character switch more compelling. It was jarring, yes; I just think it was jarring in a good way. Walking a mile in Abby's shoes was something I appreciated, especially because I think the first half of the game already does a good job making you question Ellie's revenge quest. If you were to keep switching back and forth, I think it would take away from the player-character relationship. You wouldn't feel like you ARE Ellie or Abby as much. I think it would be a vastly different game. It might have better pacing and clearer character arcs, yes, but I'm not sure it would be as good gameplay wise or as emotionally impactful. I understand a lot of people weren't emotionally invested at all for valid reasons. But it worked for me.
it's True that Revange doesn't bring Joel back and could cost a lot and you can Almost see it as Selfish Act but That's what Humans Are. Sometimes Humans do everything they can just for there own personal feelings and don't care if it's Right or Wrong.
But good humans try to overcome those feelings.
@Schmopit no one is a 100% good person and everyone and I mean everyone would want to kill abby if he/she had elies live and struggle. Yea she was mad at joel about hidding true but she loved him like father no matter what. For elie she lost everythink, because joel was her live even more that she thaught. I personally would kill myself after avenging joel and seeing abby dead.
@Schmopit and those good humans get used all the time
@Schmopit being good is fine if everyone is playing by the same rules
I think the two campaign solution would work. Doing a straight revenge game of Abby and Elle on two separate campaigns.
Joel snarls about how he saved Elle and he would do anything to keep her safe to Abby's group before Abby begins the trap. Then have Elle scream that it's her fault and beg Abby to kill her to find the cure. When Joel sees her ready to kill Elle, Joel yells to Abby he killed her Father in brutal detail. That is when Elle's campaign begins.
For Abby, show how the fireflies collapse after Joel's attack against them and start her campaign there.
Each Campaign, the player chooses if the respective enemy lives or dies.
They both mirror each other.
I would Pay 10 times of The Last of Us Part II original price just to play your version of the Story. Truly Astonishing 🔥🔥❤️
I’m going to be honest… i’m glad we got the version we got. Forcing us to complete all of Ellie’s arc in Seattle before switching to Abby makes it so much harder to empathize with Abby. And it’s supposed to be difficult. I feel like switching back and forth is like letting the player use training wheels. You have to push their hatred to the absolute limit before you break out the redeeming qualities and test the players ability to feel empathy. I also think the ending hits way harder for those of us that do choose empathy if we end up saving Abby from slavers in the process of trying to kill her, instead of just walking away when we see she is with the fireflies.
The one thing i do love about your rewrite is the idea of Abby and Ellie meeting up outside Jackson and then Joel having to come save her one last time. Not only does it give us a more interesting death for Joel but it also gives us more of an opportunity to spend time with Abby and plant the seed of us not wanting her to be “bad”, that way we get to then water that seed once her seattle arc begins and we’d be slightly less averse to the character swap.
My problem was never Joel dying, it was *HOW* he died, felt like it would have been more of sacrificing himself to save Ellie
EDIT: GOD, this alternative angle of the story goes way more harder than how it is. A way better trip going along the paths of both Ellie & Abby, and actually giving the player choices? YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH
He did sacrifice himself to save Ellie, if you think about it. The only reason they were after him was exactly because he saved Ellie and murdered people to protect her.
I understand that perspective, but they probably wanted to steer away from the heros last stand trope. I'm happy that it wasn't the last stand
I'm juts pissed that the fucking nerfed Joel's common sense for the sake of the plot.
Joel would never tell a bunch of random people his name and everything else.
@@spider-man500 Joel doesn't tell his name. It's Tommy who does it.
14:45 so tommy didn't see abby pull a shotgun out
It seems not. At least he didn't react to it until she shot Joel.
she had every opportunity to kill them before hand via pistol... it's not our world they play by different rules.
According to the show, Marlene saw Ellie get born. Ellie’s mother was infected during child birth, so technically she knows how Ellie became immune which is implied, so therefore, Marlene can just make more immune children, could have.
She didn't know how it exactly happened as seen in the TV-Series. She came hours later. Besides, how would you replicate that? Impregnate a woman, wait roughly 9 months, get her purposely infected and separate the lifeline (idk how it's called in English). Ellies mother also claimed she cut it off before the bite. It would be beyond fucked up and most likely fail
Infecting mothers during birth is an option to you?
How does that go really? Come give birth please while we let a clicker nibble on your arm?
I haven't seen the show, but it sounds like a bad addition
No one knows why Ellie is immune, even in the show its a miraculous birth not a trusted way of creating immune people
Everything after the first game has awful retcons which waters down Joel's decision in the first game
He's supposed to be selfish
I believe the Last of Us 2 gave a clear representation of PTSD. The scene where Abby wakes up in the stadium, screaming was from an event that was traumatic to her.
That event is Joel’s death.
Joel’s decision is something that’s discussed about amongst fans, whether he was in the right or in the wrong for taking Ellie’s choice away. But let’s not discuss that on this thread and talk about why Joel’s death was just as traumatic for Abby as well as Ellie.
From the moment she got to Jackson to the moment she has Joel at her mercy, you can see a slight shift in whats going on. From her and her friends arrival, she’s determined. But the moment she has Joel in her clutches, there’s a slight hesitation. Abby never thought the moment would arrive so soon; she had prepared to capture someone else to make them give up Joel’s location, even go through Jackson to find him. But the moment she takes the golf club and you hear Joel tell her to “get it over with”, she hesitates for a brief moment before going in for the kill.
After she ends Joel, for a brief moment, there’s relief. The hunts for the man that ended her father was over. But was it? You can ask combat vets, police officers, or anyone that experienced a traumatic event that it’s far from over. Taking a life in the most violent way possible is seared into the brain. And Abby, while doing what she believed was right, was haunted by her actions. Sure, she can sit there and say “Joel deserved it” but it doesn’t change the fact she, herself will never really find peace. Her dreams haunted by the people she’s killed, the people she’s lost.
This version is probably how the tv adaptation would play out, both stories intertwined.
It would have been cool if they gave us the option and different outcomes at the end, depending on which option we choose
The first game didn’t tho
@ it’s called doing something new! ..it happens with most sequels, like in the gta games you couldn’t swim in 3 or vice city, everything after allows you to swim aka do something brand new aka something you’ve never done before in said game 😱
@@bobsaget3369 you’re comparing adding game mechanic like swimming to something that would fundamentally change the story and ending to a game…..I don’t think I need to expand on that any further
@ clearly you lack comprehension it’s okay I understand it’s okay to disagree buddy
@@bobsaget3369 lol, but you’re comparing something like apples to cars. It’s not a good comparison.
The reason why we, the audience, didn’t get the choice, was because it wasn’t ours to make, it’s not our story, it was Joel’s at first and then Ellie’s. We’re just living thru their eyes.
First, Joel "robbed" Ellie of the chance to save the world, then Abby "robbed" Ellie of the chance to forgive Joel. So after that Ellie goes after the revenge thinking that she hates Abby, but really she's just unable to forgive herself that she didn't forgive Joel before he died. In the end she's able to finally understand that and forgives herself, letting Abby go. That's how I read it.
@@skeezaworkan pretty much my interpretation too
good take. honestly i was just havin fun murkin dudes
Makes sense. But it’s messed up that the game agreed with her assessment of the situation. From that description alone Ellie sounds self destructive to the point of suicidal ideation. The fact that nobody bats an eye at her death wish is wild to me.
@@skeezaworkan what makes the story terrible to me is that never once Abby has an introspective moment where she realizes that by killing Joel she did the same thing to Ellie that joel did to her by killing her father. Never once she tries to understand Ellie's motivations and never once she has a moment where she thinks was revenge worth it? Even after all her friends get killed because of it. Revenge didn't bring her dad back and in turn only caused her friends to get killed and she doesn't once feels responsible for it, she never feels remorse or questions her action or comes to the realization that revenge didn't give her her dad back, but just made her lose other people. Instead she is completely chill with it and only blames Ellie for killing her friends and would have killed her and even killed Dina even after knowing she was pregnant if it wasn't for Lev. For all these reasons, imo Abby didn't deserve Ellie's mercy and it's impossible for me to have sympathy or like a character like Abby and that's why the last of us 2's plot failed big time in my opinion to deliver not only a good story but also a good or at least satisfying ending.
@@skeezaworkan WOW!! What a garbage ass story plot… wasted series shit is saf
43:26 nope, here we see a "metaphor" so to speak, we see abby on her path of revenge, the hole where she fell again, the abby from the beginning, and then we see lev, who represents abby's path up to this point, abby Go to Lev and put aside his savagery because Lev here represents his journey, his path, once he looks at the path he traveled, he leaves Dinna and forgives Ellie and Tommy for SECOND TIME, demonstrating how her character arc, her lesson of not desperately searching for something that only causes more damage (which is one of tlou2's many lessons) has been learned and her arc ended (because after this abby stays the same) It is a well constructed scene, it is not bad, it must be analyzed, but at this point the player is shocked by all the new information that comes to him, at least in my opinion, it is a good scene
About the thing with Abby almost killing Dina
About that she is pregnant
Ellie killed a pregnant woman too
Yeah she didn't know... but Abby doesn't know that...
Yeah its not "oh that makes it all okay and i like Abby now..."
but eh... wanted to bring it up
Yes but then she says it almost gleefully. Abby is not a good person
Just like Joel didn't know that the Dr. Was Abbys dad
@@charlesman8722 I am with you that Abby is not a good person, but from her pov you can see why she is so willing to kill Dina. Imagine if Ellie found Dina dead with her pregnant stomach showing making her believe that Abby knowingly killed someone pregnant. If Ellie was then in a position to kill Mel in front of Abby, she'd be willing to do it as well. It's not that either would be happy to do it but more so they see it as avenging their friend
@@tmm4195 you’re wrong Abby would be happy to do it and she was until Lev stepped in and made her realize she nearly let her mask slip in front of Lev.
@@superphantom100 I mean nothing you said is disapproving the point I made. She was happy to do it because she believes that Ellie killed Mel knowing she was pregnant. We know Ellie didn’t know Mel was pregnant but of course Abby doesn’t know that. So imagine if the roles were reversed and Ellie believed Abby killed Dina knowing Dina was pregnant. Ellie would be eager to kill Mel not because she wants too, but to avenge Dina
5:50 Bro I fucking fell down my chair laughing to that sudden cut of XQC's reaction
Your version of Abby is WAY more understandable, they definitely rushed the story no matter how much Neil wants to deny it. Many of the major issues can easily be fixed. It's difficult because Naughty Dog is trying to tackle a discussion as Impossible as solving world hunger, racism, or poverty. while attempting to take a high road with lazy writing. Great work as always!
@@haesome8613 Whichever way you want to cut it, this story is more advanced and well-written with subtext and subtle foreshadowing than any other game. It gets so much slack for existing in (or trying to live up to) the same standard set by the first game.
I commend this game for its never-seen-before representation in a AAA game (almost unanimously hated by the “gamer” crowd). I also commend it for not taking the money-grab route of bending to the will of the audience and producing another half-baked re-work of the first game’s dynamics. People would have been happy with this, but it would have been completely inauthentic and much more deserving of criticism. Joel needed to die and to make that decision is a feat that I have not seen in the AAA game industry.
@@kkickks That’s sure is a lot of words without saying anything lmao. TLOU2 fans will always instantly jump to glazing when their game is criticized istg. Joel’s death isn’t the problem, the problem is the fact that it was rushed, stupidly executed, and committed by an unlikable psychopath that the game tries to make you empathize with. Representation means jack sht, couldn’t care less about it if the story was good, but tacking on representation to an already defunct story doesn’t suddenly make it any better. The representation wasn’t “never seen before” either, games like Life Is Strange had tons of it way before TLOU2 ever reared its ugly head. You know what’s the worst part though? There was something there. It would be so easy to just dismiss the game but I can tell from playing it over three times now that there were people who made this game with passion, but that passion was squandered by holding the importance of a message over the importance of an actual story
@@Cogito-r6n Thanks for the snark in your take, makes you real likable. (EDIT: just scroll down… you will see how insufferable this guy is… like 1000+ comments)
I dont defend this game with my life, I just like to point out how literally no other game’s story is held to this standard. Look at any other game. The writing is dogsht and stiff in comparison. The only major issue I have is the pacing.
Also, joel’s death wasn’t “rushed”. it was abrupt to reflect the brutal, unpredictable world. Nothing is more realistically brutal than the death of a loved one before you got to make peace with them. Abby’s arc was divisive, sure, but her perspective was an ambitious, risky way to tell a AAA story, even if it didn't land for everyone. I think any AAA game that pushes boundaries is worth commending. Do you really want more formulaic Far Cry, Assassin’s Creed or Call of Duty?
As for representation, Life is Strange isn’t close to AAA, so it’s not comparable. The blockbuster scale, budget and audience reach of tlou2 make its representation a much bigger deal (especially to the insular and generally disdainful gamer crowd).
Now, what I find interesting is that you called Abby an unlikable psychopath. How do you feel about Ellie then? She’s just as ruthless, if not more so, throughout the game. Do her actions feel more justified to you? I personally think Ellie lost her humanity
@ I don’t intend to be likable I intend to make points about how the story is flawed, it makes my eyes roll when people praise the game for stuff like its “representation” or its “boldness” rather than the value of its story and thus I refute these claims. Many other games are held to this standard, if the next god of war game was about how Kratos was just randomly killed by a common enemy and we were expected to follow Atreus as if he were the mc people would get mad about that, rightfully so. People got mad at the game because it ripped away everything that made the first game good and shoved its corpse down their throats. As pointed out in the video, Joel stupidly tells random strangers where they live and what his name is, something that the Joel established in the first game would never do considering the fact that he knows ambush traps very well and could sniff out a setup from a mile away. It’s not realistically brutal, it’s just dumb. I’m not saying a game can’t be different I’m saying it still has to be well written, “pushing boundaries” means nothing if the pushing of boundaries is the only thing of substance in which the story contains, which TLOU2 barely pushed boundaries in the first place. What I want is more Ghost of Tsushima, Cyberpunk 2077, God Of War, etc. games that actually push boundaries and define what a game could and should be through their beautifully crafted stories. Life is strange is triple A lmao, it got tons of rewards and Dontnod Entertainment is no small company. Also throwing representation into the faces of people doesn’t get them to like it, surrounding it with actual good content does. Abby is an unlikable psychopath because she beats an old man(who saved her life) to death in front of his adopted daughter and by the end of the game almost kills a pregnant woman on purpose. Ellie has way more humanity than her, crying over people she killed like Nora or Mel, letting Abby go at the end, tbh she was way more merciful than I think she should have been. If I were writing the story, I would make her get progressively comfortable with killing people with Dina getting progressively uncomfortable with her behavior, culminating in Ellie’s realization that her mission for revenge is futile. This would also play into the Santa Barbara section because Ellie doesn’t go to Santa Barbara for revenge, but for redemption. She frees Abby and goes back to Jackson satisfied with her actions and demonstrating her character growth
@@godzillazfriction Nice way of saying you’re just another mindless fanboy and didn’t even watch the video lmao. If you’re going to say anything say something worth my time or go back to being a sheepish drone
***SPOILERS***
I think that the best way to illustrate what Neil said at 9:00 would've been to have Ellie kill Abby at the end of the game before coming back to an empty house. Sparing Abby but still coming to a house where Dina left is a little contradicting with the message Neil says.
Imo, to really impact the players, Naughty Dog should've given them what they wanted, Ellie's revenge, but then having her come back to an empty house, showing that Ellie might have accomplished her goals, but at the cost of losing the last person she loves.
Have us play as fat geralt the man who did nothing wrong in the story.
Personally, I would've marketed the game as a brand new story, everything about Abby, this new character, make hints that Joel and Ellie do appear, but as side characters, play out the story as Abby, connecting with her and her friends, then spring the plot twist that she killed Joel, before you take over the game as Ellie.
I think positioning it like this would genuinely conflict with the player, making the story hit differently
The dude unloading the flamethrower on the dead doctor 😂😂😂😂
53:56 I don't think Ellie would say this though, given that this scene would take place a day after the game's final flashback where Ellie amends to try and forgive Joel. They had already made plans to watch a movie together after all.
They had also just agreed that Joel would stop being so controlling. No way to know for sure, but I think Ellie would remind him that he agreed to treat her less like a child when he tried to take command.
Great video! Just one adjustment I'd make, specifically at the end. The story has to be linear. In order for the possibility of a 3rd game (whatever that may be based on what we know so far).
Ellie should spare abby no matter what. The first TLOU game gave us no choice we had to kill the doctor, likewise, we should have to spare abby.
Maybe instead of the ending flashback with ellie FORGIVING Joel, it should be about, UNDERSTANDING Joel. If this story is supposed to be about ellie walking in joels shoes, then instead of outright forgiving him, just understanding him should take priority. Ellie isn't Joel, she would've absolutely had died if given the choice, but she never TRULY understood why he lied and did what he did.
It would still be controversial, but at the very least, we'd get a better reason WHY Ellie lets abby go (really, saving her). Ellie ending the circle of violence, thereby saving both lev and Abby, is more her character than killing Abby.
Joel would kill abby in a heartbeat, but he isn't ellie.
Ellie killing all of abby's crew to protect dina is within her character, but killing abby when it doesn't mean anything (especially when abby has lev, who'd be left with no one as a child, resembling ellie in a way) isn't within her character.
Ellie would die to save that world, joel would kill it to save ellie. And that is what's left up for the audience to think about. Was both Joel and Ellie justified in their decisions at the end of the game? Joel saving ellie, and Ellie sparing Abby.
Those are just my thoughts! Great analysis, watched it through and through. Great idea to mesh both ellie and Abby's stories together instead of keeping them seperate! Awesome video!
Thanks! And agree that Abby will likely be back in 3. Calling it now, she and Ellie will have to reluctantly work together to combat a greater threat.
@@cantwin8105 you can have the "true ending" be that Abby is spared, but there's nothing wrong with giving players a non-canon ending where Ellie kills her too.
Joel was 100% justified. You can't cure fungus.
@@A_Humble_Writer tell that to our various creams.
Doesn't matter, he believed it would work
@@gametapefriendsonline that kills the fungus. How was getting access to more of the fungus gonna do that?
You can't use this argument because Joel didn't care about the fungus. He just happened to be accidentally correct
@projectpems8304 but the game used the arguement that since the Fireflies where accidently correct that matters
You are so right, playing half the game as Abby was stressful, just trying to get over her story asap
I wanted to stop playing when they switched it to Abby. Even let Ellie kill her a few times when she gets to the theater. I was never able to sympathize with Abby after the intro. I've played part 1 maybe a dozen times but part 2 only once
@@Endgame_01 I feel starting the game with abby and hunting down "someone" who killed her father 'joel' would have been a better way to structure the story if they wanted to create a conflict but ig people wouldn't have liked that because we don't play as Ellie or joel but if they wanted this direction for the game then I think this woild have been better
@@notagenjimain3699it wouldn’t work tho. you run into a farrrrr bigger issue if Abby's section is first. By the time we get to the Farm sequence, most are starting to feel it's length, only because of how heavy the game has been. We then see Ellie's journey isn't finished because she's not at peace, she's drowning, so in her mind she has to leave.
And as a player, we fucking hate that, we don't want her to leave Dina and JJ to go after Abby again. Santa Barb is about an hour to 2.5 hours, depending on the player and difficulty, and all that time you hate Ellie had left.
Meanwhile if Abby's section was first and we came to like and care for Abby and her crew, by the time we switch to Ellie, you now have a whole lotta people who are on Abby's side, who understood why she did what she did, and saw revenge didn't help her in the slightest.
It didn't bring her peace, satisfaction, happiness, didn't bring her dad back, nothing. She wasted years for that moment and it didn't make a difference, she's was just as broken as she was before she killed Joel.
We would've seen all of that. And so come the Ellie's switch, you have that conflict, the same conflict most people had with the Santa Barb section, BUT instead of an hour to two hours feeling that, you're now feeling that for 10-14 hours.
They needed you fully behind Ellie and the revenge journey she was about to embark on, but they wanted you to slowly question when enough was enough, because you were starting to see how it was affecting Ellie and how it was changing her too. They then wanted to see if you could empathize with someone you hated, to understand where Abby was coming from, to walk miles in her shoes
Yep, but I loved the part when she went to the Hospital (Ground Zero) and fought the Rat King. I think it's lacking and it needs more story on that quest line. Boss is too easy.
My mother used to make stuffed cabbage. A Hungarian dish, using ground beef and rice wrapped in cabbage leaves. You stack them in a pot, then pour tomato soup over the top and cook for a few hours. I never appreciated it back then. I should try making it myself now.
I wasn't a big fan of the first game. Much like Joe Haldeman's or Robert Ludlum's books, they try to say violence is bad, then show all the awesome ways you can do it. It's hypocritical.
Your montage of the doctor's deaths is a great example. I empathize with the guy with the blowtorch most. More than anything, the characters may pay the price for your violence, but the fact that they suffer removes that burden from me as a player. Compare that to the later levels of Spec Ops: The Line, where the loading screens ask questions like, "How many Americans have you killed?" and "Are you proud of what you've done?" That game made me feel awful, especially as a veteran.
TLOU 2 was nothing more than the exploitation of violence with a thin plot to tie it all together. I feel like the characters go where they go and do what they do because of what the writers wrote, not because of human motivation. I understand why Joel did what he did in the first game, despite how petty and shortsighted it was. I would probably do the same. He feels like a human. Living in the post-apocalypse and burning an enormous amount of resources and personnel for a petty grudge doesn't seem like rational thinking.
I guess if I were the writers of the game, I would have just told another story with different characters in their world. How is the disease affecting England? Canada? Australia? Heck, how about Hawaii? There were a million other stories to tell, but they chose to return to the well and write a story that everyone has problems with to some degree. Everyone's head canon would probably be better.
Great work. I wouldn't alter a thing about your changes. This definitely makes me want to read your book. Drop the title one of these days. I go through about 50 novels a year, so I can always use something new to read.
As far as other games to fix the plot, I can suggest PREY (2017). I love the ending, but it is sloppy and a lot of people didn't. Clive Barker's Jericho was incomplete and ended in a horrible way, so it could definitely use some love. The last would be my beloved Spec Ops: The Line. The simple question would be this: how would you fix the ending of Joseph Conrad's Heart Of Darkness? It's in my top ten of games and has incredible writing, but I'd love your take.
Keep up the good work, Kev!!!
That dish sounds very good. Mm I can imagine the rice either being white, brown, or Mexican 😋😋
Oh, I hadn't considered Prey yet, but that's a great idea!
Apparently you’ve never heard of grief or trauma and how they affect people, how they can ruin your mind and you make poor decisions because of it.
Apparently you’ve never heard of addiction and how they form, how hard they are to escape
Apparently you’ve never had to struggle to forgive someone who hurt you
Apparently you’ve never lost someone suddenly, maybe even before you could make amends.
I only say all this because both Ellie and Abby’s motivations are CLEARLY spelled out, but you CHOSE to ignore them
Also, do remember these are teenagers we’re talking about, sure by society standards they’re “grown adults” but tell me what 18-19 years olds are actually grown.
@@IFluxWithIt You're funny. You make all these statements without knowing a single thing about me. I experienced more pain, suffering, and tragedy in my life before I was 18 than most cities experience in a decade. By the time I was 19, I was not only in the military, but stationed in Japan and forward deployed. I already had multiple combat deployments before 9/11. Heck, I was on counter drug operations in South America when the towers fell. That doesn't mean I ever let anything cripple me emotionally or made foolish decisions out of fear and anger. Nothing ever traumatized me because nothing can.
I'm an old man now, retired and held together with pins, screws, and metal, and I'm still stronger than just about everyone I meet. Life is hard and it only gets harder. I never complained about it, and I'm a more sensitive and loving father because of the hardships I've had to endure. Trust me, you learn patience when you have to learn how to walk again. Pain takes a new definition when your physical therapy is so painful you laugh from the endorphins and dopamine your brain releases so you don't pass out.
TL;DR Ellie and Abby are dumb and their motivations are confused at best and nonsense the rest of the time.
Edit: Oh, and I'm an alcoholic who hasn't had a drink in two decades, so I understand addiction and how easy it is to beat. Not a day goes by I don't want one, but I just refuse.
one of my upperclassmen friends recommended this game to me, and i told her i didnt like the ending, but she just told me "youre not mature enough then". 🗿
I was pretty shocked upon first beating TLOU1 and coming online to read about other people's experiences. The biggest thing that confused me after going online and reading people's thoughts about the ending of the game was the notion that Joel's actions at the end of TLOU weren't justified, and that lots of people didn't want to go through with what he did.
When I first played TLOU there was no grey morality at all to it for me, these people were about to kill the daughter I'd grown to love and weren't even going to get her consent for her 'sacrifice', which I think they could've actually gotten pretty easily. Not giving Ellie a choice and not letting Joel talk to her if they did was crazy and I felt no qualms whatsoever about mowing my way through them to stop them from killing my daughter. That on top of all the audio logs in the game that basically tell you 'they will probably not find the cure by doing this'. I was certain the ending was going to build toward a moment where they basically convince Ellie to go through with it and that Joel would kill them for it, but sever their relationship as a result. Instead he just protected her like a good man should.
The notion that I was supposed to hesitate or feel any remorse for attacking that doctor was crazy, I would do everything Joel did at the end of TLOU in a heartbeat, and anyone who doesn't get it doesn't have a daughter or niece. He simply did what any male guardian would try and do in that scenario. I think not telling Ellie about it is probably worse than what he actually did.
Comment was made before getting far into the video, love what you had to say about the correct interpretation of TLOU being the one you had since it was so open-ended. Very excited to finish the video and even check out the rest of the channel!
Just as Abby is about to drown.... Ellie is shaking with anger. She pulls Abby up and says... "Joel might have taken your dad from you. But you took my dad from me. If I have to live the rest of my life wishing I had more time. Then so do you. You don't get to rush this."
It's way more impactful and less cringey if she says nothing.
That’s horrible and not fitting at all, terrible fanfic
Tell that to Zod's snapped neck
@@ChristianMcNally-n2y worst comment ever
@@yipperdeyipwtf
I just want to correct a detail. The Ellie revenge journey happens few days after Joels death as Tommy asked Ellie to wait him for one day. There's absolutely anything that suggests it took months to Ellie and Tina to follow Tommy.
I think he was referring to the time it took them to travel from Wyoming to Seattle, not how long it took Ellie and Dina to leave
To clarify, GuvNuhh is correct. It took Dina and Ellie months to arrive in Seattle (hence the seasons changing), but the decision to leave to Seattle to get revenge was only a few days after Joel's death.
I would think it took maybe 1-2 months to get from Jackson to Seattle. The seasons changing isn’t as much of an indicator since Seattle doesn’t get snow, but it does have days of torrential rain followed by nice sunny days during the winter…like what you see in the game. There was also a newer journal entry when you arrive in Seattle about Dina getting sick “a few weeks back” and if I remember correctly, when Dina admits to Ellie that she’s pregnant Ellie says something of the same effect, that they could’ve turned back weeks ago.
And the girl math time indicator…Dina says she was suspicious but not sure when they left Jackson so she’d probably just missed a period (6 weeks along is usually when your spidey senses start tingling). She’s just starting to have first trimester sickness, not showing (which usually happens around 4 months) and still fits her jeans! So it couldn’t have been that long since they left Jackson.
Ooo boy, this is gonna be good.
I feel like they should have had the first half been from abby's perspective. Build up her group and her perspective, and then mid game have the joel scene. That might have made more people care for her before crap went down. Compared to seeing the act she did to a beloved character as one of the first things she did and trying to build up our care for her after. I didn't know who she was and we spent so long trying to kil her that when it changed to her perspective, I was like, "Okay, but who cares about this scum? I don't. and I won't feel bad if she died."
I think the point is you're supposed to hate her and want nothing but to kill her before you learn her backstory. The game is trying to immerse you in Ellie's POV after Joel's death.
But then you run into a farrrrr bigger issue if Abby's section is first. By the time we get to the Farm sequence, most are starting to feel it's length, only because of how heavy the game has been. We then see Ellie's journey isn't finished because she's not at peace, she's drowning, so in her mind she has to leave.
And as a player, we fucking hate that, we don't want her to leave Dina and JJ to go after Abby again. Santa Barb is about an hour to 2.5 hours, depending on the player and difficulty, and all that time you hate Ellie had left.
Meanwhile if Abby's section was first and we came to like and care for Abby and her crew, by the time we switch to Ellie, you now have a whole lotta people who are on Abby's side, who understood why she did what she did, and saw revenge didn't help her in the slightest.
It didn't bring her peace, satisfaction, happiness, didn't bring her dad back, nothing. She wasted years for that moment and it didn't make a difference, she's was just as broken as she was before she killed Joel.
We would've seen all of that. And so come the Ellie's switch, you have that conflict, the same conflict most people had with the Santa Barb section, BUT instead of an hour to two hours feeling that, you're now feeling that for 10-14 hours.
They needed you fully behind Ellie and the revenge journey she was about to embark on, but they wanted you to slowly question when enough was enough, because you were starting to see how it was affecting Ellie and how it was changing her too. They then wanted to see if you could empathize with someone you hated, to understand where Abby was coming from, to walk miles in her shoes
@IFluxWithIt yeah, but that's not how a lot of people work when they empathize. Abby is a horrible person who does horrible things to others (not just Joel). Joel is also a horrible person who has done horrible things to others. The difference? Joel wasn't introduced as the antagonist we hunted for over 10 hours. Also, Ellie is also a pretty horrible person, but we overlook it cause we like her. She kills a lot of people and in messed up ways too. it's hard for a lot of people to have empathy for Abby because we already don't like her. The game goes out of its way to make us hate her and does nothing to make her likable even when she becomes the player character. Had they put Joel in a similar situation in the first game, most people wouldn't like him, just like how most people don't like Abby. Because they try to build a connection tens of hours into the game with Abby, most people won't care because she is already the bad guy, and nothing she could do will change that. That's just how a lot of people think, so why a lot of people hate her. At least us feeling conflict would have been better than just thinking, "oh wow, this game is pretty preachy, I wish Abby was dead already why do I have to play as her?" Though to add, Maybe if the Wolves weren't actually scumbag it might have worked too, but the torture and killing of all outsiders tells you a lot about the faction Abby is from in terms of liability.
This is the best solution
Holy crap what a Herculean effort this was, and I was so compelled I listened to the end WAITING to hear what happened next, even though I know this story already! Man, you are an excellent storyteller and writer. I felt your themes and parallels so heavily, with each new reveal i could feel the gut punch it was. I understood where basically every character was coming from, and found myself empathizing with these people doing horrible things after horrible thing.
Absolutely incredible.
Oh wait. Cabbage.
Much better.
Cabbage is better! And thank you for your kind words! Yes, this was a big undertaking to sketch out and produce, but I was really hoping people would enjoy it. Appreciate you watching!
It’s funny I never watched anyone play it to see their reaction to the end of the first one but I guess since I’m a parent I did NOT hesitate to kill the doctor like I walked in and just shot him so seeing everyone hesitate made me realize i was a lil too much like Joel while playing 😅😅
omg dude same like i never once second guessed or questioned his decisons. like i was like meh this kinda sucks i feel bad because the doctors aren't like, actively attacking me... but at the same time no fucking way would i let anyone harm my baby. not a moment of hesitation. i hate that part 2 retconned the hospital scene, super disappointing druckmann was trying to push a narrative of joel being some big bad awful guy when a lot of people would do the same.
Ellie is not Joels child! U are weird. A strange man trying to turn this random girl into his new daughter people would call that a sick fuck or a weirdo or a potential pedo.
Funny how common sense disappears when u play the badguy & see a different pov. 🤔
Too much like Joel? Or too much like what a normal person would do? Scary people would even be willing to sacrifice a child for a POSSIBILITY of a cure
@@WabiSabbii you ain’t the only one, blasted the doctor with a shotgun at point blank range 😭
@@technibabe even after playing the second one my view point hasn’t changed on Joel at all so I think Neil was stupid to do that.
So Neil wasted his time trying to make Joel the bad guy 😂
I truly hate how the second game TRIES to make you feel bad about the first one. Even while playing and hearing the things Ellie says is so stupid. I wish it focused on Ellie using her immunity to fight against people like that one scene where she shoves her fist in the infecteds mouth was AWESOME!! I wish we were saving Joel instead of avenging him and trying to change our view point. Sorry my response is long I just really love the game 😭😭
The craziest part is that, based on some of the documents in that room, all they really needed was a sample of her blood with the cordyceps that rendered her immune from the bad ones. She didn't need to be killed at all. The whole game's plot is centered on a false premise. That and the lack of player choice at the end makes LoU2 an unfortunate disaster.
Much like Ellie couldn't sleep during the Santa sabra chapter i couldn't after finishing the game. The one thing i thought about is how this story's layout/structure could have made a much more significant impact on us as a player. and how certain events completely eliminated any build up it had. Thank god somone did it before i drove myself insane trying to do it myself.
0:27 This is just "Oh you think you can do better" put in a different way. It's like going to a restaurant, saying you don't like the taste of a meal, and the chef going "well can you do it better?"
I can fix The Last of Us Part II with one simple change, and I’m honestly baffled the developers didn’t include it.
When Joel and Tommy save Abby and meet her group, there should’ve been a brief but impactful moment:
Joel: “Tommy, I don’t got a good feeling about this.”
Tommy: “About what?”
Joel: “These people. Camping this close to Jackson without being spotted by our patrols? Either they’re real good at not being spotted or intentionally hiding from them."
Tommy: “Joel, calm down. If they wanted to do something, they’d have done it by now.”
then the scene goes as it does when joel dies.
This change works because in the first game, Joel is consistently portrayed as cautious and paranoid-“He ain’t even hurt”-and in this game, he makes Ellie wear her gas mask even when she doesn’t need it, just in case someone might notice her breathing spores.
This conversation would give Tommy a powerful emotional arc. He’d blame himself, thinking, “Joel tried to warn me, but I didn’t listen. I got him killed!” This guilt would make Tommy’s later actions toward Ellie-when he pressures her to seek revenge-feel more believable and emotionally charged.
It creates a more layered conflict and a tragic sense of regret, making Tommy’s character arc far more compelling.
This one simple interaction, in my opinion, would have significantly improved The Last of Us Part II.
As it stands, Joel's behavior in that scene feels completely out of character. Throughout the first game, and even earlier in the second, Joel is consistently portrayed as cautious and distrustful-'He ain't even hurt'-and he makes Ellie wear her gas mask even when it’s unnecessary, just to avoid any risk.
But suddenly, when faced with Abby’s group, he’s completely at ease, dropping his guard without hesitation. It feels like lazy writing, a shortcut to move the plot forward at the cost of Joel’s established character.
This isn’t just a mistake; it’s character assassination. A brief moment of hesitation, a quick exchange with Tommy expressing Joel’s unease, would have preserved his character while still allowing the story to unfold as intended.Additionally, it would have echoed the moment from the beginning of the first game when Tommy tries to stop the car for people stranded on the side of the road, but Joel refuses. That moment perfectly captured Joel's survival mindset and cautious nature. Recreating that dynamic here would not only have stayed true to Joel’s character but also reinforced the bond-and tension-between him and Tommy.Instead, we got a version of Joel that feels unfamiliar and inconsistent, undermining the emotional weight of his death.
As a person who absolutely LOVES this game as it is, these edits and changes were amazing. I'm 100% glad we got the game that we did, but these changes definitely make the story feel more thorough and thought out. 100% feels more focused on the cycle of violence theme the writers were focusing on. As I've said, I love the game as it is, but these fixes would somehow make my #1 game of all time, even better. Great job.
Acting like Abby didnt just see her pregnant friend dead. Of course she'll be willing to kill Dina after that.
Here’s my rewrite for Joel’s death. Abby tries to spring her trap on Joel and Tommy, but the teleporting dead barge in and interrupt like they usually do. That gives Joel and Tommy a chance to make a break for it. But being cornered by Abby’s friends on one side and a horde of the infected on the other, you as the player are forced to try fighting or sneaking your way out. But Abby is an inevitable boss fight no matter what. The Malenia, Blade of Miquella of TLOU2 that will make the player’s/Joel’s death feel actually earned and well fought.
27:31 Ellie towering over Nora flexing her immunity is so badass and demeaning
Time for some cabbages
Honestly, the melding of the stories to make them more precise or believable like it was in the first chapter. You phrased it in a manner where it makes sense.
The main problem that I’ve always felt with the game is what you addressed briefly. That we spent countless hours and time with Ellie and Joel and maybe an hour at most with Abby before takes Joel on a golf pro tour. I thought a way to address this (along with massive world building along the way) is just to ignore Ellie and Joel for the sequel for most of the game. We go in depth with Abby’s world, a world post apocalypse beyond Joel and Ellie. The game remains vague throughout on her motivation for revenge for her father, sprinkling details along the way. She defies her leaders with a small group to follow a developing lead. Then plot separated her from her group, but fate encounters her with Ellie. And strangers are working together to survive. As the game settles, Ellie and Abby separate. But Ellie drops a patrol map. A map that leads back to her home - to Jackson. The flashbacks come and her motives are revealed to us as the viewer. Then she comes back to her group and tells them that they found where he’s living. And that she can finally get revenge on Joel. And the game ends.
This saves time and confusion with time skipping building Abby up. We can stay for the most part in the present, with Joel flashbacks through the game as they are. Joel can die in the beginning and there would be more conflict with us as the viewer because we’ve had so much time with both Abby and Ellie and their stories. We can feel the empathy that Druckmann wanted. Then we can go through the story with more precise story melding as you described it and it would be more feeling of empathy for everyone because we are mowing down people we’ve spent time with.
I don’t know. With the series coming up to season 2, who knows if there will be changes. It’d be crazy if Neil Druckmann sees this and implements this in the series.
I don’t think he’d change it based on my video, but I’m real curious to see if they implemented any fan feedback from 2 into the show. 2 months to go!
HOLY CABBAGE!!! I love how your version of this game fixed parts of the story and gives the player the choice to do what they think is right. Not many games do that. Please keep doing what you're doing!
Thank you, I shall!
This is the best re-write of tlou2 I’ve ever seen, I’d happily pay for this.
I love your description for an alternate narrative for this story! I think if it were my decision, I would have us start as Abby and play her perspective up to when she leaves for Jackson. We get to learn about her and her friends before falling back into the familiarity of Ellie and Joel. Then switch to Ellie and have her part play out like you described, forcing Joel to come save her and getting the final flashback for Abby to learn her motivations. Then pump up the tension of that situation, knowing what Abby is going to do (and I think it would be important to have us play as Abby in a boss fight with Joel, to show Joel hasn't lost his touch).
I think this would be a good spot to give us the "forgiveness" flashback to show that Ellies new motivations are revenge for Joel but also regret for not getting the chance to forgive Joel. She's angry at Abby for taking both of those away from her.
As for the ending I agree 100% with you. It should've been a new Fireflies camp and you are forced to come to terms with Joel's actions and accept the cycle of violence, or finally understand that the only way the violence ever ends is with empathy and forgiveness.
Joel made the right choice. The right choice in two is to kill Abbey.
@@charlesman8722 But the only problem about that is that lev if he survives somehow and ellie killed abby he will pull an abby and try and get revenge on ellie
Agreed. I thought about writing the multiple endings, and one where Ellie took Lev under her wing and told him Abby left (when Ellie killed her), but Lev has plenty of reasons not to trust Ellie whereas Joel lying to Ellie was the first time she had a reason to not trust Joel. Couldn’t make it work.
@@RagingGoat56 the problem is them trying to make Abby sympathetic in anyway.
True
Idk maybe Joel’s “right choice” would’ve been to kill Abby when she was a kid 😂 kill the dad and the daughter so she can’t come after him later
2020 empathy simulator is the greatest name for this “game” lmao
It's more a total emotional range simulator. It does much more than empathy.
Why is game in quotes
Wow. Never have I related to a video more in my life. Every single point you made, every thought, every rationalization, it was all perfect down to the last minute detail
that one guy: "tell me a better version and to this day they still can't"
everyone: "they did since day one, you just didn't want to here it"
Abby:"Joel Miller..."
Joel:"No I'm Joel smith why did you just shoot me?
What ur talking about ?? We dont know ellie motivation?? If someone kills ur father you gonna forgot about it ofter of couples of months???
So, I think your version makes me understand what the game wanted us to feel by the end of the game, and kind of sheds a new light on the game and allows me to appreciate it slightly more, and yet I still wish for something more like your version
This game is so special to me. The years leading up to it, I blindly bought into the hate mob on youtube about it. But something compelled me to play it myself once it came out, and I ended up loving it, I've never been more immersed in a game's world and the ending had me thinking about it for months.
So when i saw this video i felt hesitant, but I have to say, I agree with your changes, I think they are really good. I already believed the story was much better going back and forth between Ellie and Abby, I even made saves at certain spots so i could play it that way.
Anyway I really like your ideas and I secretly hope now that Season 2 of the show might do things similarly.
18:39 „Goofing off“ as they make out got me 💀
I've watched quite a few videos "fixing" this game's story and honestly didn't expect much coming into this video but man you killed it. Genuinely would love to see this version of the story somehow
I had no idea there were so many out there! (I have watched The Closer Look’s, but that’s it.)
@@KevinHelpUs yeah a lot them don't really explicitly state "fixing" in the title but that's pretty much what they try to do
I completely disagree with the viewers shown in the end of the 1st game. The fireflies were going to murder an innocent teenage girl who was passed out without even discussing it with her or giving her guardian an option and hoping that they could create a cure and successfully distribute it to the world (and not just their own people as is likely what the firefiles would do). The fireflies were obviously the villains, and they were very evil ones at that. This is also why Abby was not justified. She was getting revenge for the death of her villainous, piece of garbage dad and would have done the same evil acts he was going to.
Also, your version of the story is way better than what we got.
Dude, on God. This fixed the whole game..
Not really.
How incredible of an interpretation!! This was so interesting to watch and think about all of the possibilities within this story.
So Joel was the Salt Lake Butcher all along...
The idea I was gonna empathize with a character who despite being saved still murdered “me” from the first game after being saved by “me” is insane.
Of course I hate her and want her dead and was never gonna accept the story being anything but me enacting vengeance. I can’t empathize with someone who clearly lacks empathy, I would struggle to enact vengeance on someone as is let alone if that person saves me.
a re edit of recut is literally perfect ive been talking to my brother for years about how we would achieve it
I tried writing a comment alongside this video while watching it, and you ended up doing almost everything I thought I would have. The only differences I have, are emphasizing how much Abby is like Joel (almost as if, Ellie carried his skill for violence, Abby his intention for it, and her intention gave Ellie both, which is what caused her to be lost), and shifting events to make it so Abby isn't shown killing joel under after the reason for her killing is stated, and even emphasized more deeply than in the real story. Then, you can make Dinah Ellie's Lev; the person that pulls her back from violence but with a different lesson than, "revenge passes on pain"; "what does revenge give you?". You could have a scene of Ellie explaining why Joel was killed to Dinah and have her struggle to hold a position on him, and elluding to the idea that his intial actions caused this
Addendum: this is a small thing, but one touch to to add to the idea that they're both reflections of Joel, is to make it so they both sort of understand the whisling language of the prim society; Ellie through Joel teaching her something similar, and Abby, through going through a phase where she didn't speak after her father's death.
All we ever needed was the absolute cold blooded murder of Abby at the end. I think it’s too much to ask us to try and like the person who brutally killed Joel in front of Ellie. No. I truly believe Abby dying would have been a better end.
The worst plot hole in this is the fact that Abby killed Joel AFTER Joel saved her life
@@jasonkoch2503 yeah I get why she was there and that’s why she came but she shows no to little hesitation, you’d think she would be a little hesitant after what he did, she realizes in that he’s not this heartless monster she built him up as.
@@superphantom100 For a game that's supposed to make you feel empathy, Abby didn't show any empathy towards Joel after he saved her life from zombies.
@ exactly
Why werent we given the choice? How hard would it have been to have 2 endings based on your choice.
Joel should have called himself Jim Milton to Abbie's group
Many critics about the story is not just What happens but also HOW its told: In Part2 having to play 3 days as Ellie with the theatre climax and then being forced to play 3 days again as Abby to the same thearte climax is just nervewrecking and annoying in later playthroughs. Then there are the flashbacks that just jump all over time. I would rather play the events in chronological order, and I liked Part1´s streamlined story better...
Ugh, the climax is the first fight between Abby and Ellie.
@@Rockport1911 wdym ? That makes no sense dude.
I love your idea of encountering a Firefly compound at the end of the game, I agree that would have fit so much better with the themes of forgiveness/violence.
One of the things I hate is the certainty of the vaccine's production. We don't know what stage the research on Cordyceps is at, if all that was really missing was something like Ellie to complete the studies. Ellie dying during the sample collection is plausible, but the certainty of a vaccine being produced using something they haven't even studied is not at all plausible. I think everyone understands Joel's feelings and his decision-making, but the uncertainty of the vaccine's production would be a stronger argument, even though it is the best chance the Fireflies have found.
One curious tension I feel like this game keeps going back and forth on is the degree to which it aspires to be 'realistic' and 'grounded' while distinctly operating in a space where the world conforms to the needs of the story, and feels like it does not exist outside of it. Obviously all fiction is constructed in this way but many great games construct their worlds and stories in such a way that convenient events or contrivances don't end up slipping through to put everyone on their narrative paths.
Abby finds Joel because she knew a guy who knew Tommy who said a thing to a person. Ellie goes to Santa Barbra because Tommy knew a guy who did a thing and heard a thing that happened to be what they needed. Ellie, a 19 year old with limited combat experience, rambos the WLF, Scars AND Infested as good as if not better than Abby, someone who grew up as part of a militia group and then manages to go toe to toe with her or her associates on multiple occasions. Obviously part of this is genre convention but The Last of Us (first game included) has so few moments of unceremonious or unfortunate coincidences that break easy narrative pathways to a thematic end point.
So few (if any) important characters unceremoniously get shot in a gunfight and die before anyone could get them aid, and the only times we see friendly people get infected (from my memory) are always these grand dramatic reveals with setup and payoff and closure. It ends up with the mean and violent parts of the game/world feeling less like the logical or natural conclusion for the world simply being like that and instead being the result of a storyteller trying to go 'ooooh isnt this nasty!'
cabbages :)
Loved the video, both in idea and execution. was so fun for me and my wife to relive the first to games here and then agree with your idea on TLOU2. Amazing stuff.
I love your new version but my main thing is I’d still probably try to switch in terms of days or maybe even act for Ellie and abby. I think too many switches scene-to-scene would be jarring and muddy the gameplay because they both have different playsets and switching too often would make it confusing. But overall I agree that a lot of events (ie abby randomly finding Joel, confusing motivations, abby stumbling across Ellie’s map) should be rehauled bc a lot of it doesn’t make sense and gets frustrating. I would even say Jerry being Abby’s dad could be revealed near the beginning of the game and the game should stay in the present because the flashbacks mess up the pace of the game, especially with switches between abby and Ellie already occurring
This retelling is something I definitely would love to play as your story has one of the best arcs and keeps the tension high throughout honestly better than I would of imagined!
This Video Is Very Refreshing To Watch. This Rewrite Shows How Little Changes Would’ve Made This Story What It Deserved To Be. It’s A Dam Shame We Got The Sequel We Got To The Masterpiece That Is TLOU1
Great video! I finished last of us part 2 and the one thing I would change is that Abby should have killed Dina, Abby had a bad relation with Mel but she respected her as we can see when they were leaving the Wolves basement after going to jackson and when she had a knife pointed at Dina she could even get a flashback of Mel bashing her and saying something like This is for you and avenge Mel's death by killing dina which would make way more sense for Ellie to go after Abby in Santa Barbara
I I would’ve made it better: Abby tries to take out Ellie but she overpowers and kills Abby, she gets her revenge, and everyone goes home happy…. Well except for Jesse cause he already died and Lev goes to Santa Barbara alone, and hair metal plays over the soundtrack. Happy ending! Or so we thought because Ellie and Co get killed by rat kings in the mid credits scene
52:03 now this may break the rules, but I’d add the empathy and choices as game mechanics. The more enemies you kill and mow down, the more violent and vengeful Ellie becomes, the less you kill and mow down, the more regretful Ellie becomes and more afraid to kill. Which would lead to the ending, of which there are 3 possible.
Ending 1: if you took the vengeful and violent path, the only option is kill Abby after the fight as your choice to make Ellie keep increasing her violence makes HER choose to kill Abby with no feelings or mindset to let her go, just like how the first games ending is what Joel wants. What Ellie does would probably be her walking off with heavy breathing.
Ending 2: one of two endings that will be achieved by Ellie killing less and having regrets. The player is given the choice to either kill Abby or let her go. This ending is when you choose to let Abby go, which would just be the ending the game has already so no explanations here.
Ending 3: one of two endings that will be achieved by Ellie killing less and having regrets. This time, the player chooses to kill Abby, but like previously in game, Ellie sits there and starts to regret doing it, maybe realizing she was just like Abby killing Joel, while also sitting in regret of killing anyone else on the way to this moment (mostly who you were required to kill, though it would obviously exclude the wild religious groups because they were people who 100% deserved it)
The last of us 2 reminds me of the movie The Revenant where both characters lost a family member, travel half a continent just for revenge but in the movie he gets some closure but the true story He doesn’t get revenge he’s killer gets away
Ellie practically gives up on the revenge for no reason at the end it’s a pretty disappointing ending. Like I understand the message “ revenge doesn’t help “ but this is a post apocalyptic world most modern morality wouldn’t work its like bringing in a person for 11th century and bringing them to 21st century he going to have completely different world view
If they really had some guts Abby would of gotten away Scot free and Ellie did all that travelling for nothing to be honest it would of been a better ending than the one we got.
They should have made Abby’s story a separate game that acted as a bridge before part 2. Here me out:
-We start with Abby and her friends all young, celebrating their friendship against the end of the world. They are referring to the fact that Ellie has arrived and they may finally get a cure, but we the audience are not told this directly.
-We then see a nightmare from Abby that shows chopped up interpretations of the massacre without showing it was the day Joel killed her father and other fireflies.
-We then start the game with Abby post execution, with the contrast showing that the friendships she had are different to the start.
-It is then a back and forth like the game where we see Abby becoming the WLF soldier and her dealing with her revenge being done. Everyone alludes to the man is ‘Miller’ but never Joel.
-Whilst this is happening, Abby’s friends are being killed one-by-one in a ‘I Know What You Did Last Summer’ style that is unknown who is doing it.
-We get to the end point, with the final levels being a back and forth to Jackson and the downfall of WLFs & Seraphites. We finally get back to the aquarium to find the last of Abby’s friends murdered and with a clue as to where the killer is.
-The Jackson confrontation happens, with the reveal being that it is Joel Miller that killed Abby’s father, whilst also showing Abby outside the movie theatre. The scene is played out to a menacing guitar solo, before cutting to the back of an older Ellie, revealed to be the killer in question.
This would have given the chance for the audience to sympathise with Abby without the Joel bias and would have been the perfect set up to Ellie’s story.
Neil has many interviews/talks about making the characters & story feel believable, the the TLOU 2 has several moments of absurd luck or character doing something they would never do IRL that completely destroyed the game for me. Your fix made a lot more sense. Thank you. I wish ND would remaster it and do it your way.
I absolutely loved your version. I doubt this would happen, but I would love for someone to make your version of The Last of Us Part 2.
Amazing work!!!!
You are so right about that, certainly a more engaging story, which is now making me jealous of what we could’ve have as a sequel. Well done 🎉
@ yeah bruh sneezed that whole comment 😛😛😛
@@jowrocha2448 This dudes made 4-5 comments that I’ve found on this video crying about it lmao
I don't think you've managed to fix everything, my man. Although, there are two things I definitely liked about your take:
1- *Removing Joel and Tommy's mistake at the start.* While I can't fully agree that it was uncharacteristic, I do like the idea of Ellie’s role in Joel's death. The game establishes Joel is trying to change for Ellie, but the space to elaborate is limited. Having Ellie somehow responsible for Joel's death is a brilliant solution. Some people even theorize that Tommy’s involvement in Joel's death might change in HBO’s S2, given how little we see him with Joel early on.
2- *Ellie’s actions affecting Abby’s side of the story.* I think Abby should only fear the consequences of her revenge after facing Tommy. Otherwise, I don't see Abby risking the safety of her friends. But I agree the game does miss an opportunity to make us face and anticipate Ellie's choices. I love the concept of both Ellie and Abby trying to get to Nora first.
What simply doesn't work out:
1- *Showing Abby's and Ellie's sides together.* Showing Abby’s story after Ellie’s is crucial to the narrative, as the game delves into the complexities of war and conflict, such as sides being unable to fully understand each other. The game challenges us to question our lack of sympathy, but Ellie doesn't have the luxury of a "safe place" to question hers. It is a design choice that both Ellie and Abby never get to say each other a single word in relationship to their journeys; only sparing each other over the consequence of their violence.
2- *Joel seeking revenge on the higher-up who ordered Sarah’s death feels uncharacteristic* and Abby shouldn’t just start moving on after killing Joel. The characters' struggles with moving on are central to the games-they can only heal through connection with others.
3- *Multiple endings.* The first game let us form our own opinion but didn't offer a choice beyond Joel’s method of murder, tying into the franchise’s theme of tribalism and conflict inevitability. This is Ellie's story, not the player’s; and the main character isn’t meant to be a canvas. It ain't Half-Life. My interpretation of Ellie’s choice to spare Abby is that killing her would have brought pain, something she was willing to do to deal with her guilt. But, by coming to terms with the fact that everything that happened-everything she, Joel, and by extension, Abby, did- would have always happened because of their nature, she forgives Joel and then herself. Thus allowing her to stop her self-destructive cycle. Ellie didn't forgive Abby. She got simply tired of destroying her own sense of self. Allowing the choice to kill Abby completely undermines this. Something incompatible with the original intent.
I like your rewrite of the beginning but also
the scene where joel dies is the first scene where we see joel and ellie together in one room
and it is heartbreaking
and also this scene feels different after every flashback
I think ellies obsession with the revenge is mostly anger at herself
she didn't forgive him he died before she had a chance to forgive him she was robbed of that chance
at santa barbara she doesn't care for abby or revenge (in the diary she asks herself why is she even here) she just thinks she can could forgive herself for not forgiving joel while he was alive if only she can get rid of the reason she didn't have the time
and when she let her go its ellie forgiving herself
what i actually don't like about the ending is how ellie loses everything while abby loses nothing (sure her friends are dead but she would have parted ways with them ether way so it doesn't really mater)
ellie loses her family, connection to BOTH of her parents (her mothers knife is somewhere in the sea), two fingers, her friends
thats the way I interprited the ending
I think the simplest fix is just have jesse live until at the very least santa barbara with ellie, have him go with you and be an extra catalyst for why dina leaves at the end of the game. His death is way more misplaced then joels has ever been accused of.
you just turned the last of us into the first of them 🔥🔥🔥
I love this.
@@KevinHelpUs no girl thats not a compliment you completely changed the game into something utterly unrecognisable. This 'making the game better' is just erasing any intentional message the game tried to convey. Your media literacy is dead.
@chaosgonewrongg What was erased?
Ya know, I just discovered your channel yesterday after playing through the Dead Space Remake and watching your Dead Space videos, and I just wanted to say that I really love your videos! I love your quips and humor, it's not overstated that it's distracting but not too dry or subtle that it goes unnoticed, it's just enough to lighten the mood and keep me engaged. And I find your explanations of the games and their stories and themes to be really insightful and well-structured. And of course with this "Fixing ____" series, I really appreciate the rules you put in place for your criticisms and think they're very fair and uncommon standards to put in place. I just really love what you're doing here, and can tell you put a lot of thought and effort into everything. Especially your edits, I love when the points your making or dialogue you're using is put over a small scene of gameplay that relates to the topic at hand. I imagine that can be quite challenging, especially to do consistently. So yeah, keep it up, I'll be looking forward to whatever you come up with next, and I hope you have a wonderful day and a good 2025!! ✨✨✨
What a nice thing to say - thanks so much!