The Hidden Influence On Music We Never Think About
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- This video is essentially about the way the design and layout of instruments affects the music that's played on them. I talk about samba, which has an unusual wonky rhythm as its backbone, but also about other instruments and the effect they have on music, as well as the choice of keys and the ways composers are influenced by instruments.
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00:00 Intro
00:51 Samba's Wonky Rhythm
02:10 Kora melodies
04:25 Flamenco Guitar Chords
06:13 How Instruments have different preferred Key Signatures
09:15 Retuning the Guitar for my "The Peacock Pavane"
11:30 Influence of instruments on Composers
VIDEO CREDITS:
My video on Microrhythm • MicroRhythm - What it ...
Accordion • Virtuos Accordion - Ed...
Milos playing Koyunbaba • Milos Karadaglic - Koy...
Balafon • Balafon style "Sénoufo...
Kora • Jarabi by George Smeri...
Kora Josh Doughty • Kora Tutorial for Jara...
Ballake Sissoko • Aga Khan Music Awards ...
Repinique • Repinique no Samba Enr...
Lumatone • Zhea Erose - Arrival |...
Rush E • RUSH E
Rush E on piano • Rush E on a real piano...
Rush E on clarinet • Rush E But Played on C...
Rush E on recorder (Suzy) • RUSH E on RECORDER esc...
Fiddle • 30 Different Fiddle St...
Chopin • Chopin Minute Waltz, O...
Bandoneon • Anibal Troilo-Ché Band...
Gheorgie Zamfir • Gheorghe Zamfir 2010, ...
Cuica /Pandeiro performance • Cuica Feat. Fabiano Salek
One of my favorite examples of this is the Harmonica in Blues: The harmonica, a diatonic instrument, has a really weird note layout so that a player always exhales on the notes of the chord. However, Blues musicians discovered that due to the equally-weird Physics of the harmonica you can bend certain notes down around a quarter tone, which is really important in Blues. However, since most the notes you bend are inhales, this caused blues musicians to on-purposely use harmonicas in the "wrong" key compared to the song so the chord-tones line up with the inhales instead. This basically led harmonica players to "reinvent" the concept of Modes (which they call 'positions' and give a unique numbering scheme). The fact that you're basically playing the instrument backwards the way it was designed, plus the modal system, plus the weird note layout to begin with, gives harmonica melodies their distinctive janky sound.
that's also why differently tuned diatonic harmonicas have become a thing in recent years, like the bill wilde tuning for playing rock.
Yes! A 10 hole diatonic harmonica is a great example. Each “position” is one step around the circle of 5ths, with each position lending itself to a different feel. Blues is typically played in 2nd position - so key of E on an A harp for example. 1st position (key of A on an A harp) will often be used in blues for very high pitched licks, because the notes of the pentatonic scales lay out really nicely on the top end of the harp. 3rd position (key of B on an A harp) lays out really well for songs in minor keys. You can play in all 12 positions, if you have some very fancy techniques (overblows etc) and players will pick a different position for certain feels just because of the note layout.
(Can you tell I’m learning to play harmonica? I’ll shut up now).
Fascinating video. Cheers.
You're so right about the harmonica forcing players into a modal way of thinking. I've been playing harp in country and folk bands since I was a teenager, and I definitely think about modes and the circle of fifths more than any of my other musical friends. Every single note on the instrument has a different timbre, so when somebody calls a tune I have to think not only about which harp has the notes I need, but also which harp accentuates the notes I want to accentuate.
It's a very different way of thinking about music. When I first learned about polytonality it made perfect sense to me, because I already play a harmonica in a key 2 fifths apart from the key everyone else is playing in sometimes. It's really hard to translate a melody on harmonica to any other instrument, or vice versa, because we're living in a totally different musical world from every other musician.
Learning blues harmonica have surely taught me a lot about the modes
I started with the blues harp - it was very pleasant and I felt like 50 when i way actually 13 😂🤠 it's good for breathing too 🤗
This is also present in electronic music. The extensive use of arpeggios in electronic music comes from constraints with the hardware that prevented playing chords. The best approximation of chords was quick arpeggios, which are now a staple in the style.
I suppose you're referring to early chip music and the limited number of voices on C64 etc sound chips?
It's actually not even limited to chords - a lot of ingenuity went into creating complex rhythms and basslines with similar techniques...
@@daniel.lopresti Even before chip music, most 1970s synthesizers were monophonic, leading people to play arpeggios to delineate chord progressions. Also, many keyboard synthesizers had arpeggiators that could automatically arpeggiate held chords.
@@daniel.lopresti early electronic music like analog synthesizers from the 60s and 70s.
These often had 2 or 3 oscillators but only one or two sequencers capable of playing back the notes.
This, along with pitch instability made chords very difficult.
Though not impossible.
You could tune the oscs to a major third or some other interval. Extending this to a chord was troublesome.
Early analog synths not only had pitch instability,
They had trouble tracking across multiple octaves.
Being slightly out when tuned in unison sounds kind of cool.
Being slightly out on a major third is kind of not cool.
@@NullStaticVoid Good to know, I'd say I'm pretty familiar with analogue (subtractive) synthesis and the limitations of early models but had no idea about arpeggiators being used in this way! Same goes for the above post...
This!!! Also worth mentioning is how the nigh-untamable sequencer and limited functionality of the 303 lead to the wonky lead lines that have become a staple of trance and techno. Modern producers of dance music will also often write their music in F or G because in those keys the tonic in lower octaves is close to the lower limit of human hearing.
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This is something that drum set players explore a lot. While there are some common arrangements of the various elements, novel configurations often lead to novel musical ideas. This is why drummers are always checking out each others' setups; there's an implicit understanding that the physicality of the instrument affects the musicality. Seeing a another drummers setup tells you something about the kinds of sounds and rhythms they play.
This video made me experience one of the strangest feelings of my life. About 7 or 8 years ago my nylon-string guitar simultaneously broke the high E string and also the plastic head of the B string tuning peg. This forced me to tune all strings relative to the B(ish) string, but ultimately invited exploration into non-conventional tuning for the guitar. I explored many different tunings for the first few years, but It's been 6 years now that all my guitars have been tuned to DADABD after falling in love with the sound of this specific tuning, much to the confusion and derision of my guitar-playing friends upon picking up one of my instruments. To me it always felt like a cheat of sorts; I can't read sheet music for guitar, I can't tell you what key I'm playing in whether that's standard tuning or otherwise, and I play in "syncopated" rhythms to hide my terrible sense of time-keeping; but this tuning has allowed me to create some pieces I'm actually proud of showing others despite my novice skill-level. So now imagine my surprise to find this specific tuning being highlighted by David Bruce for the same compositional reasons that I have enjoyed for years. And though obvious as it is to me, I feel it must be explicitly said here; I am neither diminishing David nor elevating myself, there is a colossal difference in how I've arrived at this tuning and how I use it when compared to David. Mine is a naïve and amateur stroke of luck, whereas David's is intentional, considered, and masterful. Not that I've suffered any allusions to the contrary, but never have I felt such a gap in knowledge as witnessing my noodle-tuning being discussed by a master composer. Again I say, truly surreal.
Don’t do yourself down. What I read here is that you found a sound that you like to make , and which you later found out was also liked by someone else. That someone else happens to be a music-maker you admire, and so it makes sense to feel pleased that your natural response to sound is in some way aligned with his. David’s superb at what he does, but I’m sure he’d agree that ears are ears dude. Go you and your musicality! :)
If it works for you then it is right for you. Being prepared to explore alternate tunings and falling in love with one is no less a valuable process than a formal education on the subject. Play and experimentation as learning tools for adults are underated and often unfairly undermined as amateur, immature or childish. Be it formal or informal methods, it is never to late to learn, and you don't have to be an expert to enjoy making or listening to music.
If you haven't already heard of him, you might appreciate the many alternate tunings used by Japanese guitarist (at this point many are convinced anything with strings will do), Ichka Nito. He has such an ear for music that although it doesn't take him long, I think that he no longer actually needs to tune an instrument to produce quality sound. Strumming something a few times is practically enough for him to know how to compensate for the out of tune strings just by changing where he places his fingers and taking advantage of string harmonics etc.
Sounds like a fun way to play music. 😁 I wanna listen, do you have any music out there and where can we find it?
I hope you record some of the noodling and add it to your channel. (From somewhere where there was a broken banjo for 6 years with 3 strings and weird tuning.) I gave it to a kid but maybe should borrow it back to try a porch video lol.
I play norteño music and had only been playing the "Bajo-sexto" an instrument we use for south texas polka that unfortunatly doesn't see itself outside of mexican-american culture, but anyways, I was going to acompany someone with an electric bass but wasn't really even familiar with the tuning(weird right?) And somehow still not understanding the tuning I retuned it to DGDG or some variant of 4th,4th.the idea was that I had the "tres posiciones"(three positions, root,fifth,and fourth degree) available with two strings and if I could do something and on the top DG I could also do it on the bottom DG and octave higher.This tuning suited the need specifically of norteño music and probably would have evolved that way if I made this tuning more popular in my region.of course now I'm very familiar with the EADG tuning tho.
My experience with musical "instrument" limitations are sound chips, and they have a very similar result. The characteristics and limitations of audio hardware for a given machine (game console, arcade machine, personal computer, etc) greatly influence the style of music for said machine, and therefore the character of the machine itself.
If you look at really well done Commodore 64 music on an oscilloscope separating out the three audio channels, you'll notice how despite the fact that the SID chip in the C64 is only ever making ≤3 sound at once, good composing can it sound like way more.
While the NES' sound chip had more channels (could make more sounds at once) the sounds that could be made on each channel were more limited in timbre. Especially the sample channel, which was *extremely* limited by the amount of money for storage a developer could throw at a cartridge. Some developers used it for drum kit samples, some for limited melody (Super Mario Bros. 3 used it for a few steel drum sounds which greatly influenced the sound of Mario games for the next few years), but Sunsoft was unique because they would do extremely short waveform samples and use them as another melodic channel.
My favourite thing to do is compare music from the beginning of a game system's life cycle versus music near the end when developers have learned how to push the audio hardware much further + storage space getting cheaper.
Ai sim amigo! Here in Brasil samba is a social rhythm, you usually play in a bar's table drinking some good beer with your friends, the old folks teach the "standarts" to the new ones. I play everyday with my girlfriend! Just the two of us, Its very romantic
Acho que isso é uma coisa mais corriqueira aqui no Rio, não no Brasil como um todo, ou seja, é uma coisa regional. Não passei por todos os estados do Brasil, mas pelos que eu passei nunca vi. Aqui no Rio tem roda de samba em todo lugar. Atrás da minha casa tinha roda de choro, um pessoal antigo que hoje não está mais entre nós. Privilégio gratuito que tive.
Que massa mano, aqui no Rio Grande do Sul tem uns músicos malucos, principalmente os gaiteiros, é um som que veio do futuro, é muito foda. Eu odeio música gauchesca, mas aprecio muito os músicos que tocam
The scordatura idea reminds me of the following fact: Zawinul used reversed piano keyboards on stage (high notes on the left) to condition himself to avoid overplaying the same lines because muscle memory.
A song, or style that cones to mind for me is "Superstition" by Stevie Wonder, the main riff in Eb on the clavinet both being intuitive, 'cause Stevie uses the black keys to navigate, and because that style of bouncy percussive playing works really well on the black keys.
And, then of course, the guitars can just tune down a half step, and boom, then all the open string stuff is open to them as well.
There is a piece trombone sonatina by Kazimierz Serocki that has some of this in it. The trombone doesn't have much ability for a natural slur. However, Serocki obviously sat down and figured out a line that could be completely naturally slurred and wrote it into the first movement of his Sonatina. I almost cried when I played it. I hadn't ever been able to slur an entire phrase without needing to softly articulate something ever before. It's just good writing for trombone.
Edit: for spelling.
A fourth theory would involve studying the “tamborim” and how the basic beat essentially alternates between being on the beat and playing against the beat every other bar of 2/4. This essential asymmetry permeates almost every dance style to come out of South America and it’s what makes our music irresistibly danceable
First of all, thank you for this incredibly inspiring and great video.
Here's a fourth idea why the samba has that eggshape feel:
Musicians always have a virtuoso view of the music, which means that you can master the instrument and play all the techniques cleanly. For me, however, Latin and Brazilian music always has the aspect that everyone can join in immediately, even if they haven't worked with the instrument in question for years. This could have led to a natural “untightness” arising from the sometimes large number of musicians, beginners or amateurs, some of whom also danced at the same time, which has taken on a life of its own over the years.
Alternate Tuning on guitar indeed opens up an entirely new musical universe.
Alternate tunings are a beautiful rabbit hole to fall down to! Once you get sounds and harmonies which are impossible on a regular tuning it's very hard to go back. The hard part is that you're back to square one with learning the instrument as the whole logic has changed. I use 8 string guitars tuned in minor thirds and I'm in love with that tuning!
@@jiminippo do tell. 8 strings do u have long fingers? 7 strings sounds cool to me
@@Yesh77777 Well there's a lot to mute in 8 strings. And a bigger chance of picking on a wrong string too, so... more accidental noises in general, I guess!
As a mathematician and composer this is a thing I think about a lot, great video. What was also interesting to me was the limitations created by musical notation. In high school I developed a piece at the keyboard in 1/4+2/4+2/4+1/4 time with irregular subdivisions within each quarter note. The rhythm sounds completely normal and was derived from the technical needs of the piano, but you would never write it starting with a blank sheet of staff paper.
As someone who cannot do anything and has no skills, but enjoys music greatly, I have never until now been provided with the proof that I'm not crazy for hating sheet music.
It's a good hypothesis, David, especially considering the lack of info in the English language. I live in Perú. The funny subdivision in samba comes directly from the mountains of Perú and Bolivia. Occasionally we hear the original form of the music which has a strict septuplet rhythm with notes on the 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 6th subdivisions. (There's some evidence hinting this came from Greek immigrants, but I intend to research that someday). But what is heard throughout the day everyday here has that 2nd note sitting exactly at what is the 2nd 16th note of a beat. That's where "samba 16ths" come from! :) And in Brazil, the 4th note gets pulled back just a tiny bit more.
I imagine the reason the 4th note gets pulled back a little (from 71% of the way through the beat to 69%) is to make it more harmonious to the repinique (or a West African aesthetic in general). The part played by one hand and one stick on the repinique comes directly from the Candombe drumming next door in Uruguay - not to be confused with candomble in Brazil - except the notes are shifted over one "16th" with the hand hitting the last note instead of hitting the downbeat like they do in Candombe. And Candombe, of course, came directly from Senegalese Sabar drumming. It's amazing what a diverse fusion of influences Samba has.
Brazilian here, how exactly do you make the leap that samba, which is Brazilian black music with African heritage and developed itself in the coastal east, takes its base rhythm from mountain culture from the other end of the continent? Is there evidence to support this? It's very surprising to me.
@@HakureiReimuOfficial hi, brother. NOT THE RHYTHM. THE RHYTHMIC SUBDIVISION. VERY DIFFERENT. Samba came about in the mid-20th century as I'm sure you know. It mixed together many, many influences that trace to Portugal, Senegal, other West African countries, and especially Angola, as well as native Amazonian culture. The African influence is the strongest obviously. In Perú and Bolivia they have the exact same rhythmic subdivision as in samba, and history documents the evolution of that rhythm as having been modified from a strict septuplet rhythm that is unique to and originates in the region. There is nowhere else in the world that has this same subdivision. It doesn't come from Africa but it is in Brazil's neighbor countries :)
To be clear, I'm talking about the rhythmic subdivision, and not so much about the rhythm.
@@mattnieri1202... Either way, how do you figure it made the continental jump from the mountains of Peru to the black communities of Rio de Janeiro? I haven't found any source that might indicate such a wild connection.
as far as samba goes you could be very wrong: samba dancing (particularly the basic step - samba no pê) gives rise to this inequality, your muscles make the swing as you define each division of the beat in your step. there is research that confirms this. every instrument is a way of expressing this swing.
incidentally, the repinique was not invented until the 50's - 60s well after samba's birth... and centuries after the step (inherited from semba) left Africa. the pandeiro has many techniques, not all with rotation of the holding hand. also it was me that taught Jacob, I am sure if you ask him he will recall being taught the steps too.
Very interesting. Thanks!
@@461909S two interesting tidbits: 1. the rhythm of walking seems to be the center point of the range of musically usable tempos and 2. the only animals that have SOME ability to perceive rhythm, as well as precise passing of time in the very short term, are those with some level of advanced vocal communication (see parrots spontaneously dancing, albeit badly)
I take umbrage. Snowball is a great dancer.
@@nicolarulli7733 there's been am interesting video released about chimpanzees and the rhythms they tap out on trees to communicate with other members of the family. Worth a look.
Thank you very much for this insightful video! I love the quote, "Fingers are not to be despised: they are great inspirers, and in contact with a musical instrument, often give birth to subconscious ideas which might otherwise never come to life." --Igor Stravinsky
The fact of bias in instruments gives so much texture to music. Really cool to see somebody talking about it and giving examples. Every instrument is just a specific interface for a musician, and it's really great that we have so many different ways of interfacing.
Recent example I found learning covers; in the verses of "Shimmer" by Fuel, the chords are C, Dadd9add11, and Em.
Seems like a really weird set of chords when you play them on piano, but make perfect sense on guitar, because you just take the the C major chord shape and move it up two frets.
This kind of thing happens all the time on guitar, and I always try to teach my students "guitary" things to play.
For example, the first chords I teach my students are, in order: Em, Asus2, Dsus2, CM7, Am9, D6add4add9.
I would never even think of doing these with a piano student, but on guitar, they can all be done with only two fingers, and are very easy to remember.
It's amazing how many beautiful and complex sounding guitar tunes turn out to use this technique.... moving a common cowboy chord shape or two up and down the neck.
In HS a friend taught himself The Rain Song by Led Zeppelin on a standard tuned guitar, which we all just assumed was how Jimmy Page played it. It was full of very awkward and difficult shapes, and reinforced our notion that he was a true guitar god. I didn't learn it was a simple song played on an alternate tuning until I was in my 40's, and I was honestly shocked. Duh.
@@davidkulmaczewski4911 honestly this versatillity is why I learned to love the guitar again. So much stuff you can do with it its amazing
I love this. You sound like a wonderful guitar teacher. Your students are luck to have you.
Do you teach in Southern California
@@stevealbertjohnston Thanks :)
And sorry, no, I'm in Australia
I'm impressed with how infrequently you used the word "idiomatic."
Another example: I recently found out that the defining musical feature of a Roland TB-303 isn't so much its sound as it's its sequencer. Well, it's both, but the unintuitive way in which the sequencer has to be programmed lead to the weird robotic bass lines so important for acid house. Great video!
Aha! I came to the comments to mention the 303, because I’ve just been listening to a bunch of old acid house, but it’s nice to see someone else got here first. Other examples might be the chord memory feature in a lot of late-80s polysynths, leading to the chord planing effects of rave stabs; the use of resonant filters to pick out harmonics, from Eliane Radigue to Underworld’s Rez; the different compositional techniques that came from Bob Moog’s embrace of the chromatic keyboard vs Don Buchla’s avoidance of it; and the general restrictions of simple loop-based sequencers and samplers that helped reinforce hypnotic repetition with limited harmonic movement, which meshed with the aesthetic preferences of both dance culture and the minimalist experiments of Reich/Glass/Riley etc.
Or the 101 sequencer triggered out of phase to the sequencer length say seven steps to four steps per bar.
@@wellurban do you have an acid house playlist?
@@failing_gracefully Not so much a playlist; I’d been watching this video: ua-cam.com/video/cu3Vnw6G5fE/v-deo.html This series is generally pretty entertaining, but this one in particular featured some true legends of the genre.
@@wellurban I recently watched the same video!
Great video. Over in computer science and user interface design we call this the “affordance” of the interface, and it makes perfect sense that it would apply to instruments too. The classic example of affordable is push plates vs handles on doors. If you want people to push a door, don’t put a handle on it, as everyone will try to pull first.
It makes me wonder too about the way recorded music impacts composition: sheet music vs recording studio vs DAW at home, and how the affordances of those tools changes forms. A lot to think about, thank you
I’m playing Bartok’s Romanian Dances on the violin, and a lot of the chords and drones are influenced by the violin itself because they use the most convenient neighbouring open strings. Great video as always!
I've often wondered whether different languages help to shape a distinct personality of the speakers of that language and hence the culture.
Of course ! I have a different vibe in French than in english- I articulate different in Italian even playing an instrument- it's a different context
Lupco. It often affects thinking. One reason translation is so difficult is that concepts often don't align precisely. One of the great strengths of English is that it will simply adopt words from other languages if they express a concept that's not in English e.g. schadenfreude.
I love this video. I play violin/fiddle and have both performed and taught many of the instruments used in traditional Irish music. Huge numbers of tunes fit the range of the flute, penny whistle, and Irish "uillean" bagpipes. The majority of the time, if you go to a traditional "session" you're either playing one of these, or playing WITH someone playing one of them. Meanwhile a few tunes have a melody that goes outside the range of these instruments, and when playing in a group setting the flute or similar instruments may adapt by playing an octave high on the notes that are below their range. Accordions/concertina as well as banjos, fiddles, and related string instruments, are able to play a larger range but most tunes avoid notes that are outside the practical range of the fiddle/banjo (accordions have a larger range) since so few players would actually play them and make them sound good.
Basically every instrument runs into situations where the typical use of ornaments in a tune is problematic (i.e. extremely hard to play and still have it sound perfect) because the common version of the tune is a mediocre, or bad, fit for the instrument. Fiddle tends to be very versatile in terms of playing Irish tunes but I've heard people do cool stuff on the accordion or concertina that I could never precisely imitate on any of the instruments I know how to play.
The typical contour of Irish dance tunes is, meanwhile, full of jumps and ornaments that make them awkward to sing -- not impossible, but poorly suited to performing with the voice alone. they're also poorly suited for a classical or nylon/gut-stringed harp (or guitar).
I was really surprised one day in Ireland to hear someone play a harp with steel strings, someone who was able to play dance tune melodies at full speed along with a complex drone/chord accompaniment similar to what you'd hear in multi-instrument groups.
Great rundown, and I'd like to add a few observations I've noticed for seeing how musicians try to emulate different instruments - there is a lot of interplay between the fiddle, mandolin and tenor banjo due to their similar tuning and I often hear about musicians trying to emulate the sound of the others. After a while it becomes some sort of musical Mobius strip where everything comes back but twisted.
You're right about the guitar being poorly suited for lots of Irish music, hence the popularity of the bouzouki. Recently I tried tuning a nylon guitar to all fifths (CGDAE) to arrange an Irish tune for solo guitar and I was pretty pleased with the results but nonetheless due to the width of the neck and fret distance it still doesn't feel anything like playing the same tune on the mandolin.
ua-cam.com/users/shortsLZuPz35GoZI
Amateur (very) fiddle player. Something I’ve always thought fascinating is how the strings on a violin are tuned to 4 notes higher than the previous because that’s how our hands work and it reduces shifting positions. Also how fast pieces are often written in keys that don’t require very different finger on each string
What about the symphony orchestra, where generally the wind instruments prefer flat keys and string instruments sharp keys? (E.g. clarinet and trumpet in B flat, horns and cor anglais in F, with strings tuned to C G D A and E.) Almost any key a composer chooses will be harder for some of the players and easier for others.
Seems like brute force on the composer’s part honestly. Like they have their vision of the music/different parts and the performers just have to do it
That preference is rather modern since most orchestras settled on certain transpositions for their instruments. Traditionally, every instrument you mentioned, except maybe the cor anglais (no expert about that) exists in multiple transpositions, for the brass instruments even in every possible key since they originally could only play the harmonic scale. If you look in to scores from the romantic period, you'll find a lot of Trumpet in A, Bb, C, D, Eb, E, F, and then the difficult keys change completely. A good composer could adapt to find the right instrument transposition for sound and playability.
"Downward" tom fills on the drumset. Most people learn to lead with their right hand, and drumset toms are set up descending to the right, so that's how people tend to chain them together.
I started of this video thinking “well yeah, obviously”, as a guitar player. But as it went along and after you went across so many instruments, some quite unfamiliar to me, I found myself being quite surprised by things I had no idea about. Great video man, my fault for being so presumptuous
Really interesting video! I first noticed this effect from a different perspective, not from the aspect of what is easy to play on a given instrument but from what is hard. When I played trumpet, I saw other players wanted to show off by hitting the high notes; after transitioning to guitar, I noticed that guitar players didn't show off with high notes but with speed!
Another possible example is the blues swing. It just feels more comfortable when doing that big chunky strumming of a guitar with a pick for the upstroke to drag a bit. At least for me anyway.
you got a point
You are correct in your suspicion.
And, it's not just musical instruments. In e.g computer aided design software, the way the software works, and its interface, also favour specific shapes.
A true "Eye-opener"! (And Ear-opener!) Thank you for your loving approach to this musical phenomenon. Cheers!
(PS: I was just working on some Brazilian music by Villa Lobos. Good timing! No pun intended!)
'Every instrument has keys that are easy and keys that are more challenging' (Laughs in unpitched percussion).
But seriously, such a great video. I suspect that one reason we don't often think about the relationship between the physical nature of the instrument and the kinds of music that comes out of that instrument might be due to the invention of music notation and other similar forms of technology. The great advantage of that kind of technology is precisely that they allow a kind of 'disconnect' from the physical nature of a specific instrument, they 'abstract' from it, if you will.
Yes, yes, but we tend not to be moved by music made by computers and other automatic machines. Check out some piano roll compositions as an example of impossible music. Interesting but not endearing. If music was just a fancy ordering of notes we wouldn't need people to play it, but it isn't. Some future AI will be able to reproduce exactly the playing of people like Casals, etc. though no one would go to a concert to witness it.
Could this also be a chicken and the egg situation for some instruments? I don't know much history about instruments, but is it possible there was a sound that some precursor instrument made that was fine tuned into something that better played that sound? Instead of the instrument being the influencer?
My original premise for this video was 'Music's Chicken and Egg Question' but I found it was too much to get across to talk about the other side too!
This is my feeling too. The dance step comes into it as well.
Regarding the popular music, remember that slaves couldn't ask a luthier, and built instruments with what they could find. I've been told that the claves were wooden keys on boats. They used seeds, pans, brakes, cans... The technics to play them seem more empirical than napoleonian. But artists being the same everywhere...
That's a really good point, I would guess that's happened numerous times throughout history.
@@DBruce An interesting thing occurs in transcription. Something initially awkward in the resulting transcription, if not being a fast virtuoso piece which might stress the hands, it can add new vocabulary in the new instrument. I notice this in jazz. Improvisation is like instant composing and if recorded becomes one.
A famous improvised solo later is written down and other people play it as an exercise.
This can add to their improvisational vocabulary they may later use fragments and variations of in for their own improvisations and when, for instance when a sax or guitar player plays a transcription of a piano solo, they can get different ideas, intervals and so on, habits that they might not get from another player on their own instrument
Anyway I would like to hear you do a 5 classical composers compose for jazz ensemble.
I feel the rhythmic feel, the swing feel that jazz players are used to is all that is really needed.
Such that the classical composer writing for a jazz ensemble need not be obligated to compose use melodic or harmonic motifs that are typical of jazz.
That could be just optional. That can easily be corny also, if one adds stereotypical cliched jazz phrases from the 40s or 50s.
I would argue that now, if you have drum kit drums and the players use a swing feel in the rhythm, that alone is perceived as jazz.
Fascinating! I love it. This could also be said to be true of the vocal instrument: each person's unique genetic and hereditary body and native spoken language, and I'm also thinking of Jake Shimabukura playing all that guitar music on his ukulele... omg FASCINATING ALL OF IT, ty!
Please do the video on the bandoneon's key layout.
Thank you. I notice this in a very frustrating way when I had lots of difficulties learning harmonic progression from a guitar. More examples, folk harpists (with harps without pedals) tend to use more diatonic harmony. Harps are good for glissandos but bad for repeat notes unless nothing else happens. Brass music uses more harmonic series notes than their statistical fair share and flutists finding it much harder to bounce between bottom and top notes compared with reed wood wind instruments.
15:18 ARE THESE THE YOUNG AND FINE CHORDS???? On a bandoneon ? Plus I know Zawinul was an experienced accordion player so the bandoneon influencing his harmonic style would be a great addition to your examples. :p
Absolutely love your work, as a bedroom guitar player i find it so inspiring, thanks a lot.
As a guitar player, one who loves alternate tunings, is unafraid of the capo, and arranges non-guitar music for solo fingerstyle guitar, I think about this topic all the time. Your analysis seems spot-on to me.
I applaud you for writing for guitar as a non-guitarist. So many composers seem to avoid the guitar entirely since it can be a somewhat finicky instrument if you don't know what you're doing. I'd advice composers writing for guitar to think and write in tablature, and not sheet music. If you put both options in front of us 99% of us will ignore the sheet music just play from the tabs.
Most of the things that are idiomatic to the guitar are idiomatic because they sound awesome!
Orchestras are traditional acoustic animals and while the guitar has been written for in some famous works it is not really part of the sonic palette and there are obstacles to accommodate, like limited dynamic range and low volume, limited possible voicings and narrow key choices. It is something like a 6-string piano with disadvantages. When you talk about composers you are referring to those who are pretty much steeped in the musical traditions of Western Art Music and that includes being chained to conventional notation. Tablature for guitar is very limited in what it can prescribe. Time is its Achille's Heel and systems that can adequately show it are almost conventional notation anyway. And, any guitarist worthy of playing with an orchestra would have chops enough to play with altered tunings, so tab is kind of redundant in that context.
@@lrowlands53 I disagree with literally every single thing you've said.
But the main thing I'd like to highlight for people reading your comment is regarding your statements about tablature -- my main point here is that by writing in tablature you ensure you're writing something that makes sense for the instrument, which is *especially* true in alternate tunings, where the primary reason for using such a tuning in the first place is to make use of open and fretted notes simultaneously to enable big rich chords.
Many of us memorize a lot of what we play anyway.
@@ScottPenickGo ahead, disagree with the facts of an established tradition and know, tab for guitar is not going to revolutionise composition. Sorry. I get your enthusiasm, but it’s a universe away from the reality of composing for ensembles. Ask another composer.
@@lrowlands53 I'm simply re-iterating the literal point of the video we're commenting on.
@@ScottPenickit’s not and now I give up!
A great video on a really interesting area of musicality.
As a drummer/percussionist if I'm bored/in a rut I'll change the physicality of my setup - try different drums/cymbals, rearrange the kit/setup, try different sticks/mallets, change the sticking. I've been doing that for years to reinspire me and I'm sure it also helps my wrists by ensuring I'm not doing exactly the same thing all the time.
I transcribed Zheanna Erose’s Lumatone playing on my channel with the microtonal notation and everything! “Arrival” in 31-TET
The Harry Partch instruments are yet another great example of this type of instrument - one that encourages certain patterns in justly tuned chords.
Dare I add Bill Wesley’s name to the microtonal instrument makers mix too! Pretty sure he gave a Ted Talk specifically around the topic of idiomatic performability across his isomorphic layouts.
But more expansively, of course Kraig Grady and Erv Wilson have put an enormous amount of care and time writing about this area of instrument design over the last several decades
@@um_richie misatetarta (19-TET) ua-cam.com/video/L8zkQp4egp0/v-deo.html
I've just discovered your channel, watched a few videos and I want to say: These are the exact little bits of character that I love to understand about music and various styles, yet they seem to be completely disregarded, while their effects of idiomatic movements greatly admired.
The "do it because that's the way it's done" never worked on me, I like to see the whole chain from [insert musical character] to [insert specific movements on specific instrument]
This is why I play a tenor guitar. I love the relation each string has with eachother in tuning (perfect fifths)
The panpipe example only really applies to some single-row panpipes. Throughout the Andes, most of the traditional panpipes have two rows that are laid out in a style similar to the two sides of the kora, and they require two musicians to play them. So my instrument may have E G B D' F#' A', while my musical partner's instrument has D F# A C' E' G' B'. This arrangement not only means that large leaps are easy and common, but also that slightly overlapping melodic notes become possible and part of certain traditional musical aesthetics. You do also find some traditional single-row panpipes in the Andes, which allow a single musician to play the entire melody without the need of a musical partner, such as the antara, the paya, suri skius, sikuras, etc., and then there's the national instrument of Ecuador - the rondador, which is a single-row panpipe where the tubes are arranged mostly in alternating 3rds and 4ths in such a way that they progress up a pentatonic scale with both melody and harmony, in which you're meant to blow two tubes simultaneously. One of the curious aspects of the rondador is that the bottom several tubes are arranged something like octave-5th-3rd-octave, which facilitates easily playing an interstitial motif that is common to Sanjuanito music.
Horns and trumpets come to mind: the harmonic series was the only thing they could play until valves came along. "Hunting music" on french horn and the military "Reveille" bugle call are examples of extremely idiomatic writing, simply because that's all they could do.
4 mallet marimba solos also have a very unique way of getting melodic lines do to being able to play certain invervals easier than others and with many lines that are easy on a wind or guitar being awkward. A well written cover like "colors of the wind" or "libertango" is very interesting to look at how it has been changed to work for the instrument yet maintaining melody
marimba and vibraphone solos also can end up with pretty weird chords at times just because they look cool or feel fun to play
That note about Stravinsky praising sitting at the piano to create blew my mind
I wonder if this will make modern music more or less creative. As we lay off the shackles of instruments played by hand and use software instead, there is infinite freedom, but no random limitations that really characterize the music.
Aaahaaaa! I remember being once absorbed in the musing of an analogue of this thought-on pinning down the difference in the intuitive feeling conveyed through the utterance or reading of poetry in different languages! What sounds, word and sentence constructions work in a particular language and oh so many other factors come together to make poetry of a particular language *sound* unique.
Fascinating, as usual. Agreed that alternate tunings on the guitar really bring up some beautiful options on the guitar. Thanks for another great video!
Great video! I first noticed this when I attempted to transition from guitar to mandolin: I quickly realized that having strings separated by fifths felt much more natural/comfortable than when they were seperated by fourths. Notes fell much more naturally under your fingers and made transitioning from one chord pattern to another more logical. As a bass player, I quickly set up a bass in fifths, using a cello tuning and found it much easier to play, (with a much greater range, to boot).
The entire walking bass tecnique on double bass for jazz Is based on use as much onpen strings as possibile , It s easier, the instrument rings much more and you can easily switch position
I feel that remaining B still on your guitar is so remarkable!
I think 'Inconvenience' on each instrument is source of creativity.
In a way, piano may be too rational in structure for composers and players to create throughout such inconvenience.
Great vídeo, David!
As a professional samba musician, I'd say that, more important than notes before the grid, is the surdo (lowest percussion) playing in the second beat (2/4), and the patterns that define the kind of samba (like telecoteco and partido alto).
Good subject for more videos.
Thank you!
The most obvious example is the piano itself and the required adoption of equal temperament tuning that allows all key signatures to be musical without having to re-tune. This is arguably the reason we have harmonically complex music such as bebop.
I also find it fascinating to extend this concept to the performance environment - reverb, proximity to (and size of) audience, amount of background noise, exposure to weather, mobility of musicians, etc.
Fantastic video! Thank you.
Fascinating! Thank you!
Brilliant! Thanks for this!
Thank you, David, I really enjoyed this.
Absolutely fascinating video, thank you! I've always wondered about the Samba :) Some of this is familiar ground to me. I took an orchestration course over Skype a few years back, and my teacher impressed upon me the importance of familiarity with every instrument and its idiosyncrasies. I come from a piano/keys background but have played double bass when I was young, and dabbled on guitar and flute. I've been (trying to...!) learn tin whistle for a while now, and that's a great example of an instrument that positively encourages ornamentation: mistakes often lead to pleasing trills and bends, which makes me suspect that this is the reason they're so often heard in whistle music (not that professional players are making mistakes, but the origins of those trills may well have been in the natural misfingerings of people learning to play). I've also just bought an ukulele, and so your comments about the tunings of strings really hit home there. Ukulele strings don't even go in a uniform direction!
Fantastic video!!!
More of this!
Unbelievably good video. Your videos are truly some of the most innovative music videos on UA-cam and the sheer amount of video sourcing and little comedic bits (that are genuinely funny and clever) that you include must truly be a crazy amount of work! Keep at it legend!!
Your videos are so interesting and inspiring !
Wonderful video, thank you!
This video reminds me of the story of how hungarian composer Frigyes Hidas composed his orchestral pieces: he always asked the members of the orchestra whether a certain melody or part is comfortably playable on their instruments or whether the lines might need adjustments.
I really agree, David, that instruments themselves influence the compositional outcome. Thanks for this fine video!
Superb ✨
Thank you 💚
Man i love your videos!
Amazing. Thank You DB. Never heard of this.
Really cool that you did a video on this topic. I’ve noticed this for the first time when I started playing melodies by ear on the guitar that are usually sung. I feel as if a different type of the same instrument, or a different technique can already change the way you write music
Interesting and true. When writing new music, you tend to fall into the same patterns with the same instrument. Something new is developed when improvising on a different medium.
In the 70´s there was a brazilian musician called Fritz Escovão witch played the melody of "Rain Drops falling on my head". Other brazilian musician called Oswaldinho da Cuíca plays lots of melodies on this amazing instrument.
Your video are so well done. Every times there is a new video, I get inspired to pick up my guitar. Now it’s in a weird tuning, thanks Bruce!
I'm glad to see the Gyil/Balafon get a mention at the end.
I'd also mention the 'found rhythms' that come from drum ensembles.
A thing I noticed while working with African musicians and also on my travels in India.
Not only did polyrhythms occur naturally but the 'lilt' that one would often hear came from the natural effects of combined 'battery' and pause or relief in a group of players.
Insightful, informative, and fun. Thanks.
Brilliant! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thank you! 🙏🙏🙏
Great video. I have had similar thoughts about instrument ergonomics before. Thank you for making an in depth video about this idea.
I play some antique middle eastern instruments, ones that have been more or less culturally forgotten in the region they are from. And how I learn to play them is basically to play what comes naturally from the qualities of the instrument, as you have explained. Really enjoyed this video.
English Concertina came to mind when having the hands lined up in alternating notes or indeed thirds. And the effect of this can be seen in many folk tunes where the origin can be identified as concertina, melodion or fiddle.
Nice that you covered this topic. It's another proof that music isn't about an objective truth encoded in it but about the identification with a performing human being.
btw different keys on piano are not only harder or easier, but also can give a distinct sound. I think Chopin's nocturnes and Schubert's impromptus get their mood because they have a lot of flats which is played differently than simpler keys, even with equal temperament.
always 15 minutes well spended , thank you David wonderful video
I love your content! Thank you for your contributions to humanity.
You are a Great man.
Well. Yes these intriguing points are fascinating..
And because I am new in learning about music, your videos help alot.. You import all info in a particular context and that way made sense clear.. Thank you. ♥
Excellent video.
Amazing video!! I had never thought about the influence of the design of the instrument on the music you play. That makes a lot of sense. Greetings from 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷 👏👏👏 Yes, bandoneon needs its own video.
This video makes me remember the Wagner tuba, the tuba only from the idea of Richard Wagner for his opera cycle “Der Ring des Nibelungen”. This instrument really defines a new way of epicness. Or Theremin, it is the instrument you do not have to touch to make music. Such wonderful instruments!
What a top rate wonderful video. Thank you so much
I started playing guitar some months ago, and I've been thinking about this exactly! Excelente video!!
This video starts with the ultra-obvious premise that the instrument design affects what musicians choose to play, but the explorations of how and exactly why this happens are very interesting and very well presented. I learned why kora music tends to sound similar no matter who is playing that instrument, and much more. The visual aids really helped. Excellent work here! Thanks.
David, thx so much for this. excellent. j.
Well said!! I never thought about that..
Of course! Love it!
I play a number of instruments and one thing I always find myself doing is playing the same types of music based on which instrument I play.
I always assumed this was due to the context of which I learned the instrument, for flute I was primarily getting classical training, bass/trombone/harmonica all led me towards jazz/blues, and my world instruments are almost always folk that tends to sound more like the folk music of the country's origin than generic world folk, but your video has given me a lot to rethink.
I find this especially true depending on which type of flute I am playing whether it be a Bansuri, Telenka, or Dizi -- when I improv off of them, I don't go on blues or jazz riffs it sounds more like the folk music from the instruments' origins.
Your new piece sounds great
I wish we had UA-cam in the 70-80’s lol amazing video keep it up please this topic is very important to musicians from all over the world will learn a lot and thank you
Bravo! The scordatura on classical guitar is precisely the reason why it remains such a versatile instrument. The possibilities for a composer are endless, the depth and subtlety of an exotic tuning can be breathtaking on a good acoustic guitar.
THANK YOU I've been looking for some sort of explanation of this wonkiness. I heard it in many cumbia villera songs, where they lean into the wonk heavily.
Awesome video! Great insight on something that is easily overlooked. I made a video a while back in the same vein, but looking at how the DAW, and workflow in general affects the music we write. It’s so important to be cognizant as composers of these things, as they deeply affect what we are likely to create. When we keep these things in mind, it allows us to make changes at the system level, like how you retuned your guitar to open up possibilities, or in my case, by adopting the principles of a modular workflow into an entirely acoustic environment for found sounds. Great work David!