I suggest everyone to support Kirk at Pen Realm. He is a super nice guy and very easy to work with. And it's easier to meet him at a pen show than Taylor Swift.
Lmao!!!! That was funny. But for sure, in a sense, he is the Taylor swift of the fountain pen community and he’s very approachable, fun, and a great person! I met him at the Chicago pen show and spoke with him but I’ll be sure to get a nib grind with him in San Francisco’s pen show. I definitely regret not buying the Planetary Nebula from him in my Chicago pen show recap.
Great topic! I rarely buy fountain pens at full price. I've noticed that most new pens drop in price about a month later, usually anywhere from $50-$100. I also use my own affiliate discount code or credit for certain shops that I am an affiliate of on top of that sale price if I can. I have a few inexpensive pens that I love, but not many. Oh and I've also noticed the increase of "limited edition" pens...It's gotten out of control.
I totally agree, Brittany! If it's way too much, I don't have a hard time waiting for it to go on an even bigger sale later one, and if it's gone, it is what it is! We get a nice bigger discount as affiliates (but not by much), so I always use that too when I buy from my two affiliated companies. :) I am so proud of myself for saying "No" to so many exclusives that came out in the past 2 months! The only pen I've bought since March 6 was a Platinum Japanese exclusive, which I've had in my wish list vision board already, so I feel great about those purchases.
Hi Lao, Thank you for your thorough analysis of this topic. One intangible that I wanted to add that may be factored into the cost of a pen is the ideation process. Ideation can be very iterative and requires creativity and prototyping. That process can take some time and could explain the higher cost of certain pens. Your analysis made me think more about how I place value on pens and I will definitey think more about an expensive pen purchase in the future. Your retailer list is very helpful and some are new to me. Keep up your great content! Have a wonderful day. 🌸
Thank you for the heartfelt words! ♥I think the creative process is definitely an important piece that doesn't get looked at often - like the discussions and prototyping that goes into creating the pen before all the money gets poured out to make it happen. That brainwork and prototyping is time and money, too! XD I love that this video is meaningful for you in thinking more intentionally about your pen purchases! :D I will keep updating the list with new retailers as people share more with me! It's fun to see new stores and to compile them all up together! ^_^
as someone in the UK i almost always buy pens and inks from either cultpens or stilo e stile ^^ cult pens ship with 1st class post (if youre in the uk) so it gets to you super fast, though also good to know: from stilo e stile, as long as you keep your order under 135GBP (around 155EUR) you wont get hit with a customs charge, and their prices are *very* good compared to most UK retailers. sometimes, like with recent sailor PGSs, its even cost effective to have the customs charge! other great UK options are Art From The Heart and also The Writing Desk ^^ Anyway, i loved the video, as always, even if i'm a little late to watching it this time haha
Oh, I know of The Writing Desk! I bought my Blue Green Nebula Sailor PGS from them! I shall add them to my growing list! And I have not heard of Art from the Heart, but that is such a cute name. Definitely need to look at them and see what they offer! That's interesting about Stilo e Stile - I don't live in the UK, so I don't know these things. LOL So it's more beneficial to buy a Sailor at a higher cost and just pay customs charges? I have never bought from Stilo before, so I have not dealt with any customs charges from any overseas shopping - I guess I should call myself lucky there as customs are a pain to deal with if the retailers do not handle that for you already. Also, thank you for watching! I know the video discusses Memorial Day sales, but it's mainly about ANY sales at ANY time of the year - as I will be updating the spreadsheet every time I know of a sale coming up for each site ^_^
I really enjoyed this video! I think the trap I have fell into in the past was missing completely out on a pen because it was limited edition and sold out before my pen allowance money was enough to buy it. I really like when companies make enough pens. I get it from a marketing and profit standpoint. I still remember a special pink Benu pen I wanted so badly but it got away. LOL It is nice to be able to find discounts and specials! Thank you for all the tips and thoughts which give so much insight into pen buying.
Hi Chris! So great to see you here! :D I am so sorry to hear your pens that got away - and the limited editions that force you to either dish up your non-existent money now or lose the pen. It's really frustrating when it is time-sensitive through the small amount of pens that are made. So glad you enjoyed this video though - it's interesting and fun to talk about the whys and breakdown of the non-writing topics of this fountain pen hobby.
There is an uncovered factor of region/country distributors who makes their rules for sale of their fountain pens, including MSRP, shipping, units, etc. It affects all aspects, and ultimately the authority behind the sales to us. Make no mistake, they want to extract as much profit as possible.
So True!! yeah, I'm sure my numbers were overestimating the cost of creating pens, VERY likely that the margin of profit is about 200 dollars for my Leonardo. I was going to talk about an MSRP example of the Custom 823 (but I forgot!) - with the distributor/manufacturer suggesting that retailers sell it for $420, but instead, retailers are selling them for 336. It's amazing how much profit they are suggesting for retailers to make out of these pens xD it's ridiculous. Even at 336, it's a lot. I suppose it may also be the distributors that refuse to make less profit off certain brands, hence why Atlas has exclusions to the discountable pens.
Thank you for this great video. It was very thoughtful and informative. I think we also have to think of profit not as greed or just money for the seller but also as the funds that keep the business operating in order to continue having products for us to purchase.
@@NikitaBx2 thank you so much for watching, Nikita 🥰 Indeed, profit is still a very real thing for business owners to think about and I really appreciate the business owners who are able to make choices to help ease the cost for buyers. And I also understand when retailers might not be able to do that, too, for their particular goals in addition to ensuring their business continues to serve us!
What a fantastic resource! Thank you so much for putting this together! I have barely scratched the surface of places to shop at, mostly bc I focus on shopping in Canada when I can. However, I have noticed the selection tends to be a bit better in the US, so it’s really nice to have a place to check when I’m shopping in the future! 💗
YAY!! Glad you saw this video and you can now have a resource to look back on. Thank you for watching, Alison! These kinds of videos make me happy when I see others have found them to be helpful and useful xD Like my wet vs dry ink video. If you know more Canadian shops that you enjoy or know they are great, let me know and I can look them up to add to my list!
Another potential cost factor might be the design process. Some products go through multiple versions before the final one is approved and put into production, and it takes time to work out the perfect design and incorporate feedback into what to change and what to keep. Employees also need to be paid a living wage, and when products are made in smaller batches instead of mass-produced by millions, costs are necessarily higher. Cult Pens is also great for having lower BENU prices, especially on pre-order, and some U.K.-exclusive pens. One of the pens I'm waiting to unbox is a Retro 51 only available from U.K. retailers, plus a matching sleeve. And not only do they have lower Diamine prices, they also have a lot of great Diamine exclusives to their store, like the Seven Deadly Sins set. Truphae is my local store. They have lots of great in-store events, like the upcoming visit from Kirk Speer, visits from representatives of various pen companies, classes, and get-togethers.
Ooo, I wonder what BENU Cult Pens will make next - there hasn't been a BENU that I really like recently until Pen Boutique's soon-to-be release! I love that Cult Pens has SOOOO many beautiful exclusive inks. I just want them ALL!! But...not enough physical storage space for it all. I need an ink storage space overhaul lol! It's very cool that Truphae is so close to you! I wished I had a nearby fountain pen store T_T but that's so darn exciting with Kirk Speer visiting your hometown!! Can't wait for you to get what you need from him! :) And that is very true - smaller batches require more meticulous and accuracy, whereas, injection molded, mass produced pens like Sailor PGS, Lamy Safari, Kaweco - they're much easier to have machines do it all quickly. So hand-made and hand-turned pens definitely are paid their dues to the worker with the higher price tags - and I'm all for that. BUT I will not pay 1000 dollars for a Visconti Homo Sapiens XD I don't think any more than 5% of the cost of that pen is going towards labor AND probably 70% of the cost of that pen is towards profit.
Lao, thank you so much for putting this together!! Fantastic resource, and really well done. I just love a good discount, lol. Also, thanks for including a Canadian shop - Wonder Pens are great for finding fun stationery items in general, and their pricing is good too - with the advantage of the exchange rate on your American dollars, you'll get some great deals when you visit them.
Hi Kim - I'm glad this resource is helpful!! I was pretty proud of how it turned out lol! I hope more people can find access to this and use it to help them shop to save a lot! :D I am still soooo bummed that I didn't realize I could have visited Wonder Pens back in February when I was in Toronto for 4 days. I will definitely share my fun experience next time I see them!
This was such a great video, Lao! Being mindful about our choices can make the hobby so much more enjoyable. I do also take into account what efforts the various retailers take to provide information on their website, such as multiple photos (not just stock photos) of the products, making inhouse swatches, etc. I know you didn't include 'makers' here, but I have purchased directly from Franklin-Christoph on several occasions, and something I appreciate is that when they do a special edition with a retailer (like current with Goulet) the pricing seems to be consistent with their overall pricing for the model. 💕🖋
Thank you, Emmay! :D Glad it was of help and hopefully a good watch! I didn't include makers or hand-turned retailers as I was mostly speaking to places that sell multiple and various brands! But does Franklin-Christoph sell other brands besides their own, too? I do love their pen accessories - have one of their Penvelopes and I love it! I also agree with you - I REALLY appreciate when retailers make their OWN exclusive cheaper than the regularly available editions. Like Atlas' BENU euphoria Gold Coast was about 149 while the regular Euphorias were 156 on their website. That was always interesting to me how those pricing came to be when usually exclusives and limited editions tend to be priced higher. So for that - I am very grateful and would rather buy the exclusives at that point (which, as I'm writing, might have answered my questions lol! It's slightly cheaper so you'll buy out the limited asap).
Hi Rachelle! Yes I intentionally did not discuss endless pens because they are not 100% authorized for everything in their store. I should certainly add them to my spreadsheet since I buy from there a ton because the savings are great! But I’ll need to add a note about their warranties being much different than authorized retailers for brands they are not authorized for (I.e. if you buy a sailor from endless pens, the Sailor warranty does not honor your purchase through them as a pen that is covered. Instead, you most likely have to apply for a return through endless if your pen becomes faulty within the warranty timeframe). I have another video idea on grey market sales, so I’ll touch more on endless pens in that video! Despite them being a grey market retailer for some of their products, I don’t think they are necessarily wiping out other retailers who only sell authorized pens. They are just as great to shop from!
What a great topic. Except for Amazon, I don't buy pens unless I have rewards points to redeem, or a discount code. How's things going; with your family staying with you? That's so nice of you to open your home. I'm sure you're used to peace and quiet. That Persephone pen is glorious. You have the best pens. That pen is a perfect example of your topic because it is quite expensive, especially for a steel nib pen. It IS a quandary when a pen is limited, or you just KNOW it will sell out. Example: the Esterbrook/Ferris Wheel Press collaboration of the Nebulous Plume. I was prepared and waiting for that pen drop, and still barely got one from Goldspot, before they sold out. Which brings up another question. With a new pen drop; worldwide; it makes sense that each retailer may only have a very few pens in stock. Do you have any info on that?
Hi Teresa, yes, this is a topic that is hard to talk about since money can be sensitive topic for a lot of folks. I think Amazon is such a great place to buy pens at such a great price - and you can easily return them anytime! And I suppose you heard my little niece and brother/sister in law in the background xD I tuned them out while editing. I hope I edited out the part where I told my niece to stop knocking on my door lol! I think it's been very nice having them stay here for a bit. We get to chat more often every day since we're cooking, eating, and babysitting together. It's strangely not as loud at night even with the baby crying. I have to really tell myself, "this pen wasn't meant to be, there isn't a strong enough connection that the universe had it sell out before I could get my hands on one" - and I've been able to learn to let go! But it definitely is hard at first if it's a pen you really wanted and couldn't get. I'm glad you got your Nebulous Plume - that was a very beautiful and unique looking Esterbrook indeed. As for retailers getting only a few pens during a worldwide limited pen release - I know for sure each retailer gets limited amounts. When the Chai Latte Shape of Heart came out - Atlas was only allowed a certain amount from the distributor (Luxury Brands of America) and they had to ask to get more allotment after the initial sell out. So distributors have to divvy out their rations from the manufacturer to each retailer who reaches out to get some pens to sell. For the Nebulous Plume, it was limited to 1000, I think Goldspot only had 10 of each nib size. (so 50 per retailer). That would cover 20 retailers around the world - so possibly even less than 50 per retailer to cover more retailers.
Hi Pat! I hope this discussion answered any questions you might have or open discussion for more money-related stuff in this hobby. It's a topic that doesn't get talked about as much or directly - but hopefully this has made it easier to talk about.
Hi Mr. Lao. Thank you for making such a thoughtful video. I applaud you for main videos such as this rather than reviews etc. Limited editions have a higher price ceiling compared to the standard designs and usually have the same nib. Have you ever thought of making a video about an exit strategy towards buying pens ? I managed to achieve my exit strategy not too long ago. Bought all of my grail pens within a span of few months and was shocked to discover that my favourite pen wasn’t the priciest amongst them. When you love a pen to the extent you don’t feel like using anything else what does that say about limited editions ? By the way i was a fan of Leonardo till i bought my first Aurora Mamba
Hi Baladino! That makes me so happy to hear that you appreciate this kind of video over the regular review videos of pens. I like to be a bit more diverse with my content even though UA-cam prefers channels to be very consistent with content type since it’s human nature - we prefer to watch the same kinds of things from one channel. But knowing you enjoy this definitely motivates me to continue creating helpful and interesting topics outside of pen reviews. I am shocked you found your exit strategy so soon after getting all your grail pens! May I ask which of your pens was your favorite among all? And does this mean you’re done buying and collecting new pens? I haven’t thought about an exit strategy or a video about that since I’m at my slowing down on purchases and loving my pens stage lol. But I’d definitely want to hear more about your experience before I can even ponder the idea for myself! Your comment on exit strategy was very interesting. Thank you so much for your kind words and watching my video! Please continue to watch my other ones that I just touch on topics of fountain pens! 🥰
Hi Lao, such an interesting and relevant topic for us emersed in this as you aptly said lifestyle, for some of us its more than a hobby, its a form of insanity haha. Have been reading through the interesting comments, adding much value to the discussion. I really love Emy at Pen Venture, what a lovely guy and true professional. Stillo & Stile also excellent. Cult pens..and i dont know if i saw you mention Pure Pens here in the UK, a family run company. Thanks for your thoughts on this subject. It is really appreciated, as it has not been addressed in depth to my knowledge. ❤ Helen, Derry, Northern Ireland UK 🇬🇧
Hi Helen, thanks for your wonderful words! Indeed the comments section is very valuable in adding to and continuing this discussion around money and pens. It’s a topic that I think can be very touchy for some, from those who spend a lot without worry to those who thinks it’s too much. We all fall somewhere in between and I think it’s so important to have an open discussion around this and go deeper into how and why we pay what we pay for such things that to non fountain pen people, might seem ridiculous lol. I don’t think I talked about pure pens in the video because I forgot to write it down on my list in my journal BUT I do have Pure Pens in my spreadsheet! I bought my Pelikan M1000 from them last August for such an amazing price so I’ve had a great shopping experience with them! So glad to see you also find the EU retailers as pleasant as I have! 🥰 Please let me know if there are any other topics you’d be interested in seeing!
Awesome video. As far as goulet I avoid them now as much as possible due to their uncomfortable relationship noodlers. I prefer to spend my money with companies whose actions are more in line with my morals when possible .
Thanks man! I appreciate seeing you here in my channel! I didn’t want to say negative things about any retailer and leave any personal opinions to the discussion in the comments haha. I agree, I don’t shop much from Goulet unless they have something I need and I can’t get them elsewhere. Glad you are mindful of who you want to spend your money on to support! The retailers I’ve made deeper relationships with have my heart (and wallet lol).
Well yes, the manufacturer makes their profit once they release it to the distributors, then when retailers get them from the distributors, they've made their profit, and finally the retailers profit from us :P That makes sense. Which is why, by the end of that line, the price has gone up a lot.
Lao, thank you for the great video. I just wanted to add to the list of great pen stores. Please include Endless Pens. They have a great selection and always have sales under the HopDrop category.
Hi Sherise! I added EndlessPens onto the list!! :) I am a REGULAR with them xD but I didn't talk much about Endless in my video because they aren't authorized for every single brand they carry. I made sure to add that note in the spreadsheet just for anyone who may want to know - but when it comes to buying pens at great deals - they are my go-to place for Leonardos and Sailors! (and exclusives!) Thank you for watching and sharing your love for EndlessPens!! :D
I’m guilty of buying gray market import Japanese pens instead going through their North American AD’s, because I feel that North American buyers are getting ripped off at the retail prices for many of these models. I will of course concede that this has much to do with the yen being weak and Japanese buyers earning lower salaries on average, but it stings to see ¥12,000 Sailor Profit Standards being priced at almost triple that in North America. I don’t consider myself a collector and owning highly redundant items is an anxiety trigger, so I have a stronger immunity built up against these special limited editions. Instead, I stick with neutral colored pens, and use different varieties of inks. Alternately, if inks are more important than pens, one could buy a demonstrator pen like a Pilot Kakuno, and keep one paired up with each full-sized bottle of ink that they own. I personally like shopping with Yoseka stationary, especially their ink samples. They even send you a handwritten card with your orders.
Haha there is nothing wrong with that buddy! I only buy Sailors from Japan, but then again… I only buy Japan exclusive Sailors and Platinums…so I have no choice but to go through the grey market for that. I have another video for grey market shopping. It’s a great way to save money and still earn yourself amazing Japanese pens. I definitely avoid buying Sailors from US retailers due to the fact that their pricing is ridiculous for having the worse warranty timeframe of only 1 year. Overall I don’t think it’s worth it, so I never post Sailors from Atlas (I’m so sorry, Atlas!) I won’t post something that I personally won’t buy with my money if I’m not saving something, so the choice to buy the more ridiculously priced pens with no discount is up to everyone else. I appreciate you sharing your honest choices and thoughts on the matter! Again there’s no shame in however we spend our money. We gotta work around the economy somehow to our own advantages! ;)
By buying on the gray market you are harming EVERTYY honest dealer, and every other fountain pen buyer who buys things honestly. You're the one ripping companies and people off, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
@@jamesaritchie1 He's not harming others with buying from gray market. Some pens can only be bought directly through Japan. You should not be coming here to put shame on others - we are responsible for our own actions - retailers understand that a gray market exists and that is not something they need to worry about as there are pens that can only be bought through retailers, also. Please do not come into my comments section shaming and bullying others or I will remove your comments, James. I respected your opinions, but I have no tolerance for you shaming others.
@@jamesaritchie1 I don’t owe you and manufactures that overcharge overseas buyers (Pilot and Sailor) and keep the best stuff for their home markets any shame or apology. As Lao noted, we can’t buy certain pens through official distribution networks, and thus we must rely on the grey market to obtain these models. I have handled Sailors and Pilots with gold nibs sold in the US at more than double the price they retail for in Japan, and I can wholeheartedly say that US and Canadian buyers are being gouged by these manufactures compared to Japanese buyers (e.g, a basic Sailor Pro Gear is NOT an MSRP 220 US dollar pen, not even close). By buying grey market, I assume the responsibility of fronting my own costs of repair work should I get a nib that isn’t tuned properly, and I am forgoing after-sales coverage. That’s what anyone who buys anything not sold in their home country’s official distribution networks must understand. Will this bite me in the behind if I buy a grey market gold nib pen that isn’t covered by a warranty, and I end up having to send it in for repair? That’s a possibility. Caveat emptor; you get what you pay for. Do you want to pay the IMHO ridiculous markup that overseas manufactures want I charge on export markets, get fewer options, but feel those drawbacks are worth the security of having after-sales support and a factory warranty? Go for it; it’s your money, more power to you. Save your sanctimony for more worthy causes.
I have nothing at all against buying pens at the lowest price possible, but to me. a fountain pen, or anything else, is worth whatever people will pay for it, including how much I am willing to pay for it. If enough pens sell at a thousand dollars, or whatever price, a company is foolish to price it lower. If no one buys at that price, then the cost will come down. My most expensive pen cost $14,000 and has been worth it many times over. But I've also had pens that cost two hundred dollars that turned out to be junk, and definitely were NOT worth the price. I consider the price far less than I consider how much I want a given pen. Ink samples, to me, are VASTLY overpriced in two ways. One is that we don't get anywhere near as much ink for the price. The cost, in fact, is a total rip-off. Reason two is that samples prevent us from using bottled ink that we already have, and that is a MASSIVE waste. I have never bought a pen because it was a limited edition, but I have bought several limited editions simply because I loved them. Many do think it's great to have a pen that only a few other people have, and I feel the same, but that isn't why I buy a pen. And I'd much, much rather buy Diamine ink from Amazon that from any pen company. I buy a few cheap things from Goulet pens, but nothing expensive. I don't care how much a pen costs, buy when someplace else is selling an expensive pen at a much lower cost only a fool buys the one priced the highest. Goulet is simply much more expensive that some other places, and when talking about pens that cost several hundred to several thousand dollars, I am NOT paying the difference. I can sometimes buy a very good fountain pen from what I save by not buying at Goulet. I have resin pens I love, but, to me, most resins pens look like cheap Chinese pens. I prefer metal pens. Namiki Maki-e are my favorites. But I do buy Some upper end Visconti pens. Anyway, value, to me, doesn't mean hunting and hunting for a sale, and not buying unless I find a discount. That means doing without something I really want. Value means I love a pen and am not willing to miss out on it because I can't find it at a discount.
I think a lot of the reason ink samples are priced relatively high is because of the immense amount of Labor involved in decanting the ink into little vials and then inventorying the little vials.
I suggest everyone to support Kirk at Pen Realm. He is a super nice guy and very easy to work with. And it's easier to meet him at a pen show than Taylor Swift.
Lmao!!!! That was funny. But for sure, in a sense, he is the Taylor swift of the fountain pen community and he’s very approachable, fun, and a great person! I met him at the Chicago pen show and spoke with him but I’ll be sure to get a nib grind with him in San Francisco’s pen show. I definitely regret not buying the Planetary Nebula from him in my Chicago pen show recap.
100% Kirk is the bomb!
Great topic! I rarely buy fountain pens at full price. I've noticed that most new pens drop in price about a month later, usually anywhere from $50-$100.
I also use my own affiliate discount code or credit for certain shops that I am an affiliate of on top of that sale price if I can.
I have a few inexpensive pens that I love, but not many.
Oh and I've also noticed the increase of "limited edition" pens...It's gotten out of control.
I totally agree, Brittany! If it's way too much, I don't have a hard time waiting for it to go on an even bigger sale later one, and if it's gone, it is what it is! We get a nice bigger discount as affiliates (but not by much), so I always use that too when I buy from my two affiliated companies. :) I am so proud of myself for saying "No" to so many exclusives that came out in the past 2 months! The only pen I've bought since March 6 was a Platinum Japanese exclusive, which I've had in my wish list vision board already, so I feel great about those purchases.
Hi Lao, Thank you for your thorough analysis of this topic. One intangible that I wanted to add that may be factored into the cost of a pen is the ideation process. Ideation can be very iterative and requires creativity and prototyping. That process can take some time and could explain the higher cost of certain pens. Your analysis made me think more about how I place value on pens and I will definitey think more about an expensive pen purchase in the future. Your retailer list is very helpful and some are new to me. Keep up your great content! Have a wonderful day. 🌸
Thank you for the heartfelt words! ♥I think the creative process is definitely an important piece that doesn't get looked at often - like the discussions and prototyping that goes into creating the pen before all the money gets poured out to make it happen. That brainwork and prototyping is time and money, too! XD I love that this video is meaningful for you in thinking more intentionally about your pen purchases! :D I will keep updating the list with new retailers as people share more with me! It's fun to see new stores and to compile them all up together! ^_^
as someone in the UK i almost always buy pens and inks from either cultpens or stilo e stile ^^ cult pens ship with 1st class post (if youre in the uk) so it gets to you super fast, though also good to know: from stilo e stile, as long as you keep your order under 135GBP (around 155EUR) you wont get hit with a customs charge, and their prices are *very* good compared to most UK retailers. sometimes, like with recent sailor PGSs, its even cost effective to have the customs charge!
other great UK options are Art From The Heart and also The Writing Desk ^^
Anyway, i loved the video, as always, even if i'm a little late to watching it this time haha
Oh, I know of The Writing Desk! I bought my Blue Green Nebula Sailor PGS from them! I shall add them to my growing list! And I have not heard of Art from the Heart, but that is such a cute name. Definitely need to look at them and see what they offer! That's interesting about Stilo e Stile - I don't live in the UK, so I don't know these things. LOL So it's more beneficial to buy a Sailor at a higher cost and just pay customs charges? I have never bought from Stilo before, so I have not dealt with any customs charges from any overseas shopping - I guess I should call myself lucky there as customs are a pain to deal with if the retailers do not handle that for you already. Also, thank you for watching! I know the video discusses Memorial Day sales, but it's mainly about ANY sales at ANY time of the year - as I will be updating the spreadsheet every time I know of a sale coming up for each site ^_^
I really enjoyed this video! I think the trap I have fell into in the past was missing completely out on a pen because it was limited edition and sold out before my pen allowance money was enough to buy it. I really like when companies make enough pens. I get it from a marketing and profit standpoint. I still remember a special pink Benu pen I wanted so badly but it got away. LOL It is nice to be able to find discounts and specials! Thank you for all the tips and thoughts which give so much insight into pen buying.
Hi Chris! So great to see you here! :D I am so sorry to hear your pens that got away - and the limited editions that force you to either dish up your non-existent money now or lose the pen. It's really frustrating when it is time-sensitive through the small amount of pens that are made. So glad you enjoyed this video though - it's interesting and fun to talk about the whys and breakdown of the non-writing topics of this fountain pen hobby.
There is an uncovered factor of region/country distributors who makes their rules for sale of their fountain pens, including MSRP, shipping, units, etc. It affects all aspects, and ultimately the authority behind the sales to us. Make no mistake, they want to extract as much profit as possible.
So True!! yeah, I'm sure my numbers were overestimating the cost of creating pens, VERY likely that the margin of profit is about 200 dollars for my Leonardo. I was going to talk about an MSRP example of the Custom 823 (but I forgot!) - with the distributor/manufacturer suggesting that retailers sell it for $420, but instead, retailers are selling them for 336. It's amazing how much profit they are suggesting for retailers to make out of these pens xD it's ridiculous. Even at 336, it's a lot. I suppose it may also be the distributors that refuse to make less profit off certain brands, hence why Atlas has exclusions to the discountable pens.
Thank you for this great video. It was very thoughtful and informative. I think we also have to think of profit not as greed or just money for the seller but also as the funds that keep the business operating in order to continue having products for us to purchase.
@@NikitaBx2 thank you so much for watching, Nikita 🥰 Indeed, profit is still a very real thing for business owners to think about and I really appreciate the business owners who are able to make choices to help ease the cost for buyers. And I also understand when retailers might not be able to do that, too, for their particular goals in addition to ensuring their business continues to serve us!
What a fantastic resource! Thank you so much for putting this together! I have barely scratched the surface of places to shop at, mostly bc I focus on shopping in Canada when I can. However, I have noticed the selection tends to be a bit better in the US, so it’s really nice to have a place to check when I’m shopping in the future! 💗
YAY!! Glad you saw this video and you can now have a resource to look back on. Thank you for watching, Alison! These kinds of videos make me happy when I see others have found them to be helpful and useful xD Like my wet vs dry ink video. If you know more Canadian shops that you enjoy or know they are great, let me know and I can look them up to add to my list!
Another potential cost factor might be the design process. Some products go through multiple versions before the final one is approved and put into production, and it takes time to work out the perfect design and incorporate feedback into what to change and what to keep. Employees also need to be paid a living wage, and when products are made in smaller batches instead of mass-produced by millions, costs are necessarily higher.
Cult Pens is also great for having lower BENU prices, especially on pre-order, and some U.K.-exclusive pens. One of the pens I'm waiting to unbox is a Retro 51 only available from U.K. retailers, plus a matching sleeve. And not only do they have lower Diamine prices, they also have a lot of great Diamine exclusives to their store, like the Seven Deadly Sins set.
Truphae is my local store. They have lots of great in-store events, like the upcoming visit from Kirk Speer, visits from representatives of various pen companies, classes, and get-togethers.
Great point about the design process and the back end of employees wages.
Ooo, I wonder what BENU Cult Pens will make next - there hasn't been a BENU that I really like recently until Pen Boutique's soon-to-be release! I love that Cult Pens has SOOOO many beautiful exclusive inks. I just want them ALL!! But...not enough physical storage space for it all. I need an ink storage space overhaul lol! It's very cool that Truphae is so close to you! I wished I had a nearby fountain pen store T_T but that's so darn exciting with Kirk Speer visiting your hometown!! Can't wait for you to get what you need from him! :)
And that is very true - smaller batches require more meticulous and accuracy, whereas, injection molded, mass produced pens like Sailor PGS, Lamy Safari, Kaweco - they're much easier to have machines do it all quickly. So hand-made and hand-turned pens definitely are paid their dues to the worker with the higher price tags - and I'm all for that. BUT I will not pay 1000 dollars for a Visconti Homo Sapiens XD I don't think any more than 5% of the cost of that pen is going towards labor AND probably 70% of the cost of that pen is towards profit.
Lao this was great! Thanks you for the great information and resources mentioned. Very helpful.
Glad it was helpful! I hope a lot of people will be able to see this and find some use from the spreadsheet! :D Thanks for watching, Diana!
Lao, thank you so much for putting this together!! Fantastic resource, and really well done. I just love a good discount, lol. Also, thanks for including a Canadian shop - Wonder Pens are great for finding fun stationery items in general, and their pricing is good too - with the advantage of the exchange rate on your American dollars, you'll get some great deals when you visit them.
Hi Kim - I'm glad this resource is helpful!! I was pretty proud of how it turned out lol! I hope more people can find access to this and use it to help them shop to save a lot! :D I am still soooo bummed that I didn't realize I could have visited Wonder Pens back in February when I was in Toronto for 4 days. I will definitely share my fun experience next time I see them!
How did I not know about Atlas's last chance section before now??? Game changer!! Not that my bank account is thrilled....
Yes it’s absolutely amazing!!! My wallet likes it when I don’t spend full price on most pens. Haha 🥰
This was such a great video, Lao! Being mindful about our choices can make the hobby so much more enjoyable. I do also take into account what efforts the various retailers take to provide information on their website, such as multiple photos (not just stock photos) of the products, making inhouse swatches, etc. I know you didn't include 'makers' here, but I have purchased directly from Franklin-Christoph on several occasions, and something I appreciate is that when they do a special edition with a retailer (like current with Goulet) the pricing seems to be consistent with their overall pricing for the model. 💕🖋
Thank you, Emmay! :D Glad it was of help and hopefully a good watch! I didn't include makers or hand-turned retailers as I was mostly speaking to places that sell multiple and various brands! But does Franklin-Christoph sell other brands besides their own, too? I do love their pen accessories - have one of their Penvelopes and I love it! I also agree with you - I REALLY appreciate when retailers make their OWN exclusive cheaper than the regularly available editions. Like Atlas' BENU euphoria Gold Coast was about 149 while the regular Euphorias were 156 on their website. That was always interesting to me how those pricing came to be when usually exclusives and limited editions tend to be priced higher. So for that - I am very grateful and would rather buy the exclusives at that point (which, as I'm writing, might have answered my questions lol! It's slightly cheaper so you'll buy out the limited asap).
This video was great. You forgot Endless Pens, I love them. They have great sales and customer service too. Rachelle in Seattle
Hi Rachelle! Yes I intentionally did not discuss endless pens because they are not 100% authorized for everything in their store. I should certainly add them to my spreadsheet since I buy from there a ton because the savings are great! But I’ll need to add a note about their warranties being much different than authorized retailers for brands they are not authorized for (I.e. if you buy a sailor from endless pens, the Sailor warranty does not honor your purchase through them as a pen that is covered. Instead, you most likely have to apply for a return through endless if your pen becomes faulty within the warranty timeframe). I have another video idea on grey market sales, so I’ll touch more on endless pens in that video! Despite them being a grey market retailer for some of their products, I don’t think they are necessarily wiping out other retailers who only sell authorized pens. They are just as great to shop from!
What a great topic. Except for Amazon, I don't buy pens unless I have rewards points to redeem, or a discount code. How's things going; with your family staying with you? That's so nice of you to open your home. I'm sure you're used to peace and quiet. That Persephone pen is glorious. You have the best pens. That pen is a perfect example of your topic because it is quite expensive, especially for a steel nib pen. It IS a quandary when a pen is limited, or you just KNOW it will sell out. Example: the Esterbrook/Ferris Wheel Press collaboration of the Nebulous Plume. I was prepared and waiting for that pen drop, and still barely got one from Goldspot, before they sold out. Which brings up another question. With a new pen drop; worldwide; it makes sense that each retailer may only have a very few pens in stock. Do you have any info on that?
Hi Teresa, yes, this is a topic that is hard to talk about since money can be sensitive topic for a lot of folks. I think Amazon is such a great place to buy pens at such a great price - and you can easily return them anytime! And I suppose you heard my little niece and brother/sister in law in the background xD I tuned them out while editing. I hope I edited out the part where I told my niece to stop knocking on my door lol! I think it's been very nice having them stay here for a bit. We get to chat more often every day since we're cooking, eating, and babysitting together. It's strangely not as loud at night even with the baby crying.
I have to really tell myself, "this pen wasn't meant to be, there isn't a strong enough connection that the universe had it sell out before I could get my hands on one" - and I've been able to learn to let go! But it definitely is hard at first if it's a pen you really wanted and couldn't get. I'm glad you got your Nebulous Plume - that was a very beautiful and unique looking Esterbrook indeed. As for retailers getting only a few pens during a worldwide limited pen release - I know for sure each retailer gets limited amounts. When the Chai Latte Shape of Heart came out - Atlas was only allowed a certain amount from the distributor (Luxury Brands of America) and they had to ask to get more allotment after the initial sell out. So distributors have to divvy out their rations from the manufacturer to each retailer who reaches out to get some pens to sell. For the Nebulous Plume, it was limited to 1000, I think Goldspot only had 10 of each nib size. (so 50 per retailer). That would cover 20 retailers around the world - so possibly even less than 50 per retailer to cover more retailers.
Thank you very much this topic is very helpful.
Hi Pat! I hope this discussion answered any questions you might have or open discussion for more money-related stuff in this hobby. It's a topic that doesn't get talked about as much or directly - but hopefully this has made it easier to talk about.
Hi Mr. Lao. Thank you for making such a thoughtful video. I applaud you for main videos such as this rather than reviews etc. Limited editions have a higher price ceiling compared to the standard designs and usually have the same nib. Have you ever thought of making a video about an exit strategy towards buying pens ? I managed to achieve my exit strategy not too long ago. Bought all of my grail pens within a span of few months and was shocked to discover that my favourite pen wasn’t the priciest amongst them. When you love a pen to the extent you don’t feel like using anything else what does that say about limited editions ? By the way i was a fan of Leonardo till i bought my first Aurora Mamba
Hi Baladino! That makes me so happy to hear that you appreciate this kind of video over the regular review videos of pens. I like to be a bit more diverse with my content even though UA-cam prefers channels to be very consistent with content type since it’s human nature - we prefer to watch the same kinds of things from one channel. But knowing you enjoy this definitely motivates me to continue creating helpful and interesting topics outside of pen reviews. I am shocked you found your exit strategy so soon after getting all your grail pens! May I ask which of your pens was your favorite among all? And does this mean you’re done buying and collecting new pens? I haven’t thought about an exit strategy or a video about that since I’m at my slowing down on purchases and loving my pens stage lol. But I’d definitely want to hear more about your experience before I can even ponder the idea for myself! Your comment on exit strategy was very interesting. Thank you so much for your kind words and watching my video! Please continue to watch my other ones that I just touch on topics of fountain pens! 🥰
Jet pens are amazing. Prices are Top Dollar on pens, but the shipping is super fast. My last order got to me in 2 days.
They're such a fun place to get all pens, markers, and stationery from. I love watching their videos, too.
Such a great resource. Thanks Lao!
Woohoo!! Yes thank you and you’re most welcome!
Hi Lao, such an interesting and relevant topic for us emersed in this as you aptly said lifestyle, for some of us its more than a hobby, its a form of insanity haha. Have been reading through the interesting comments, adding much value to the discussion. I really love Emy at Pen Venture, what a lovely guy and true professional. Stillo & Stile also excellent. Cult pens..and i dont know if i saw you mention Pure Pens here in the UK, a family run company. Thanks for your thoughts on this subject. It is really appreciated, as it has not been addressed in depth to my knowledge. ❤ Helen, Derry, Northern Ireland UK 🇬🇧
Hi Helen, thanks for your wonderful words! Indeed the comments section is very valuable in adding to and continuing this discussion around money and pens. It’s a topic that I think can be very touchy for some, from those who spend a lot without worry to those who thinks it’s too much. We all fall somewhere in between and I think it’s so important to have an open discussion around this and go deeper into how and why we pay what we pay for such things that to non fountain pen people, might seem ridiculous lol. I don’t think I talked about pure pens in the video because I forgot to write it down on my list in my journal BUT I do have Pure Pens in my spreadsheet! I bought my Pelikan M1000 from them last August for such an amazing price so I’ve had a great shopping experience with them! So glad to see you also find the EU retailers as pleasant as I have! 🥰 Please let me know if there are any other topics you’d be interested in seeing!
Awesome video. As far as goulet I avoid them now as much as possible due to their uncomfortable relationship noodlers. I prefer to spend my money with companies whose actions are more in line with my morals when possible .
Thanks man! I appreciate seeing you here in my channel! I didn’t want to say negative things about any retailer and leave any personal opinions to the discussion in the comments haha. I agree, I don’t shop much from Goulet unless they have something I need and I can’t get them elsewhere. Glad you are mindful of who you want to spend your money on to support! The retailers I’ve made deeper relationships with have my heart (and wallet lol).
I agree with you about the noodler's relationship. I also find their overt religiosity to be a bit much, but that's just me I'm sure.
for helpful video, thanks for posting
Thanks for watching, Marie!
such an informative and interesting topic!
Thanks for watching, Erin! :) Please share this video and the spreadsheet to any pen friends you think might appreciate the information! ^_^
Your profit figures are figured out wrong. The maker makes a profit. The distributer makes a profit . Finally the retailer makes a profit.
Well yes, the manufacturer makes their profit once they release it to the distributors, then when retailers get them from the distributors, they've made their profit, and finally the retailers profit from us :P That makes sense. Which is why, by the end of that line, the price has gone up a lot.
Lao, thank you for the great video. I just wanted to add to the list of great pen stores. Please include Endless Pens. They have a great selection and always have sales under the HopDrop category.
Hi Sherise! I added EndlessPens onto the list!! :) I am a REGULAR with them xD but I didn't talk much about Endless in my video because they aren't authorized for every single brand they carry. I made sure to add that note in the spreadsheet just for anyone who may want to know - but when it comes to buying pens at great deals - they are my go-to place for Leonardos and Sailors! (and exclusives!) Thank you for watching and sharing your love for EndlessPens!! :D
I’m guilty of buying gray market import Japanese pens instead going through their North American AD’s, because I feel that North American buyers are getting ripped off at the retail prices for many of these models. I will of course concede that this has much to do with the yen being weak and Japanese buyers earning lower salaries on average, but it stings to see ¥12,000 Sailor Profit Standards being priced at almost triple that in North America. I don’t consider myself a collector and owning highly redundant items is an anxiety trigger, so I have a stronger immunity built up against these special limited editions. Instead, I stick with neutral colored pens, and use different varieties of inks. Alternately, if inks are more important than pens, one could buy a demonstrator pen like a Pilot Kakuno, and keep one paired up with each full-sized bottle of ink that they own. I personally like shopping with Yoseka stationary, especially their ink samples. They even send you a handwritten card with your orders.
Haha there is nothing wrong with that buddy! I only buy Sailors from Japan, but then again… I only buy Japan exclusive Sailors and Platinums…so I have no choice but to go through the grey market for that. I have another video for grey market shopping. It’s a great way to save money and still earn yourself amazing Japanese pens. I definitely avoid buying Sailors from US retailers due to the fact that their pricing is ridiculous for having the worse warranty timeframe of only 1 year. Overall I don’t think it’s worth it, so I never post Sailors from Atlas (I’m so sorry, Atlas!) I won’t post something that I personally won’t buy with my money if I’m not saving something, so the choice to buy the more ridiculously priced pens with no discount is up to everyone else. I appreciate you sharing your honest choices and thoughts on the matter! Again there’s no shame in however we spend our money. We gotta work around the economy somehow to our own advantages! ;)
By buying on the gray market you are harming EVERTYY honest dealer, and every other fountain pen buyer who buys things honestly. You're the one ripping companies and people off, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
@@jamesaritchie1 He's not harming others with buying from gray market. Some pens can only be bought directly through Japan. You should not be coming here to put shame on others - we are responsible for our own actions - retailers understand that a gray market exists and that is not something they need to worry about as there are pens that can only be bought through retailers, also. Please do not come into my comments section shaming and bullying others or I will remove your comments, James. I respected your opinions, but I have no tolerance for you shaming others.
@@jamesaritchie1 I don’t owe you and manufactures that overcharge overseas buyers (Pilot and Sailor) and keep the best stuff for their home markets any shame or apology. As Lao noted, we can’t buy certain pens through official distribution networks, and thus we must rely on the grey market to obtain these models. I have handled Sailors and Pilots with gold nibs sold in the US at more than double the price they retail for in Japan, and I can wholeheartedly say that US and Canadian buyers are being gouged by these manufactures compared to Japanese buyers (e.g, a basic Sailor Pro Gear is NOT an MSRP 220 US dollar pen, not even close). By buying grey market, I assume the responsibility of fronting my own costs of repair work should I get a nib that isn’t tuned properly, and I am forgoing after-sales coverage. That’s what anyone who buys anything not sold in their home country’s official distribution networks must understand. Will this bite me in the behind if I buy a grey market gold nib pen that isn’t covered by a warranty, and I end up having to send it in for repair? That’s a possibility. Caveat emptor; you get what you pay for. Do you want to pay the IMHO ridiculous markup that overseas manufactures want I charge on export markets, get fewer options, but feel those drawbacks are worth the security of having after-sales support and a factory warranty? Go for it; it’s your money, more power to you. Save your sanctimony for more worthy causes.
I have nothing at all against buying pens at the lowest price possible, but to me. a fountain pen, or anything else, is worth whatever people will pay for it, including how much I am willing to pay for it. If enough pens sell at a thousand dollars, or whatever price, a company is foolish to price it lower. If no one buys at that price, then the cost will come down.
My most expensive pen cost $14,000 and has been worth it many times over. But I've also had pens that cost two hundred dollars that turned out to be junk, and definitely were NOT worth the price. I consider the price far less than I consider how much I want a given pen.
Ink samples, to me, are VASTLY overpriced in two ways. One is that we don't get anywhere near as much ink for the price. The cost, in fact, is a total rip-off. Reason two is that samples prevent us from using bottled ink that we already have, and that is a MASSIVE waste.
I have never bought a pen because it was a limited edition, but I have bought several limited editions simply because I loved them. Many do think it's great to have a pen that only a few other people have, and I feel the same, but that isn't why I buy a pen.
And I'd much, much rather buy Diamine ink from Amazon that from any pen company.
I buy a few cheap things from Goulet pens, but nothing expensive. I don't care how much a pen costs, buy when someplace else is selling an expensive pen at a much lower cost only a fool buys the one priced the highest. Goulet is simply much more expensive that some other places, and when talking about pens that cost several hundred to several thousand dollars, I am NOT paying the difference. I can sometimes buy a very good fountain pen from what I save by not buying at Goulet.
I have resin pens I love, but, to me, most resins pens look like cheap Chinese pens. I prefer metal pens. Namiki Maki-e are my favorites. But I do buy Some upper end Visconti pens.
Anyway, value, to me, doesn't mean hunting and hunting for a sale, and not buying unless I find a discount. That means doing without something I really want. Value means I love a pen and am not willing to miss out on it because I can't find it at a discount.
I think a lot of the reason ink samples are priced relatively high is because of the immense amount of Labor involved in decanting the ink into little vials and then inventorying the little vials.