Been getting quite a few requests to cover Shimura and Jin, figured with the PC release it was a perfect time. Who next? What game next.....Mafia series?
Amazing content bro, as for next character i think you need to cover Metal Gear Solid series, especially main 3 snakes:Naked, Solid and Venom, could make great videos of that, you could also do Aiden Pearce from Watch Dogs 1, could do Geralt from Witcher 3, also seeing Disco Elysium being analyzed by you would be amazing, perfect characters for your type of videos!
If you ask me, honor was only a small part in why the Shogun orders Lord Shimura to kill Jin. I think the main reason, Shimura says this too, is what the Ghost represents. He represents defiance and he represents hope for the commoner, which threatens the hold the Shogun and the samurai in general have over the peasants of Tsushima and all of Japan. The Ghost and his tactics basically tell the common people that they don't need to put up with the cruelty of their oppressors and when the Mongols leave, who will they view as oppressors? It was less about the code and more so the fact that Jin OPENLY DEFIED the words of Lord Shimura, his lord, who he should obey without question. The Shogun sees this and thinks "what will the people do after they just witnessed their hero defy the words of his betters?" The Ghost is the face of resistance, and resistance has no place in samurai dominated society.
"His betters" who themselves are not better... because every shogun knows just the type underhanded things they had to do in order to become the shogun... oh well
@@MMFerreiraBruno precisely. That's why I love Ghost of Tsushima. It's such a great nod to the Chanbara genre while also bringing up some of the grim realities of the samurai and their society.
You sometimes can hear some peasants talk about how they believe the ghost is one of them because of the poisons he used are the same that a farmer would know
The fact that the Shogunate deems the Ghost the greater threat than the Mongols speaks volumes about how much it cares about the commoners. This will also make an interesting plot element in the second Ghost of Tsushima game, in which Jin may be forced to fight the Shogunate in the midst of the Second Mongol Invasion.
@@josephsu9574 I don't believe the shogunate "cares" abour the people they care about shifting loyalty, like any president nowadays.The fact that Jin is becoming more beloved and respected than the shogun is the problem, that both him, Shimura and certainly many others feel that way IS the bigger problem imo. But leave it to greed to f things up every time.
@sladehildebrand7518 nah, Jin had honor. Samurai were needed when dishonesty ruled and they needed something people could see and trust, something unbendable to build around. It wasn't sustainable and the rigid compliance to it ultimately became a risk to the entire culture and people. Jin became what they needed at the time it was his job to keep them safe
@sladehildebrand7518 shimura was wrong. Jin had honor he defended those who could not and inspired those who could, and he did the most honorable thing, which was doing whatever it took to defend his land from invaders who had overwhelming numbers and force on their side who also had no limit to what willing to do conquer the island.
@@rafifargi974 i know that we're debating a topic in a game but anywho. here's the thing people will ALWAYS respect,follow and obey those with power until that power reaches their necks so unless jin opreses his people most of them will be loyal to him, people will be rogue and hard to control in the absence of rules and laws. how do i know that? i live in a contry that has been through 2 revolutiones and a military coup d'état in the last 14 years
In Ghost of Tsushima the three Main Side quests are kind of side stories to "Honor" Ishikawa, at the final stretch regrets ever choosing Honor over his daughter Tomoe. Masako Adachi, lost her family in turn she willingly let go of any honor while she fights, supporting Jin's more discrete, or "Dishonorable" manner of fighting, she openly agrees to it even. Norio, is a monk who let go of his learnings in the chase of revenge to the Mongol who butchered his brother. Basically Honor comes with a high cost, Honor is a rigid construct that limits, and Letting go of Honor to be a Brother first. It's Jin, this is the whole game told by three other characters journey.
I feel like with Norio in particular shows exactly what people like Shimura fear with warriors who lack honor. The destruction caused by the monk was swift, indiscriminate, and horrific it was as if a monster tore through. Their was no self control
@@Broomer52 It also implied that he did think of acting like a Monk, but his decision came that he must be a Brother, for he was a Brother before he even became a monk.
@@fatguy4137 but Norio wasn't just acting like a brother, he was acting with cruelty rather than justice. It was at the cost of Norio losing his inner purity and peace. Jin giving Norio forgiveness for his falling into rage and revenge is a sign that both Jin and Shimura can gain redemption and inner peace back through forgiveness.
From what i remember didn’t Norio’s brother or friend who was a symbol of hope or unyielding, end up talking and revealing after days or possibly weeks of Torture
A cool detail to notice as well is that Jin finishes the duel between him and Lord Shimura in a unique way. If you remember from the flashback when Jin and Lord Shimura were hunting the bear, Lord Shimura is attacked by an assassin from Yarikawa and is hit in the upper right arm before he disarms him. During the final dual, Jin's final slash also seems to strike the same spot that the assassin hit 20 years ago. I think this shows that not only is Jin a master in his swordsmanship, thus fulfilling Lord Shimura's words of "becoming the greatest swordsman Clan Sakai has ever known", but also shows the depth of their relationship. Jin remembers that injury not only because it was connected to the lesson Lord Shimura taught him then, but also how he had to violate that lesson (as well as many others) in order to help conquer the Mongol invasion. In my view, the strike to the arm is a deeper sign of betrayal to Lord Shimura and a sign respect for Jin on far he has come as a swordsman. I also think that this is a nod to the Kurosawa films of the past and their style of samurai duels that often end in one slash of the katana.
Shimura's chained to Bushido that cost him nearly his entire family is possibly directly tied to Kenny Ackerman's statement in Attack on Titan: "Everyone had to be drunk on something to keep pushing on. Everyone was a slave to something." And the idea of Jin Sakai relinquishing the Samurai code after the Mongol invasion, turning down being his uncle's offer of being his heir, and seeing the flaws of Shimura's honor is the character drive for the main protagonist in becoming the Ghost.
I chose to spare Shimura in the end. I love that ending because when Jin refuses to kill him, he doesn't even argue. He just warns him that Jin will be hunted until the day he dies. Shimura finally accepted that Jin was the ghost. Imo, the spare ending is canon.
I’ve always spared him. He wants an honorable death but at that point Jin basically has no honor, or at least not the honor that his uncle expects of him. And my version of Jin won’t lose his father again for something as nebulous as “honor”
No , he actually believed that Yuna corrupted him , and which is technically true . Jin was agaisnt this , but Yuna continously asked him to choose the ghost way , she created the ghost as well . But yes, Jin decided to opt that , he had to take responsiblity .
@@YoualrightboiBut at the end of the day, Yuna at near every turn wanted to flee the island and leave the people to their fate. Jin kept strong in his resolve to save the people. Not just blind vengeance
@@yokaivegaurd8707 yes , you did technically corrupted him . as i said , he was against it , yuno time to time , continously asked him to choose the ghost path . She even created this persona of" ghost" when jin did the terror act in front of large mass in the mill . She was the one to openly announce that he is ghost . There is no bending in Jin's action , he didnt fight head on , thats all . he backstabbed people from shadows .
I love how the release of this game on PC has allowed so many more content creators to create videos about it. I haven't seen anything regarding this game in years, but now because it's on PC it makes me feel like how I felt back when the game was initially released. Hope everyone loves it and gets the chance to play it
I’m almost purely empathetic. I can definitely see Shimura’s side. People give him too much hate. Like, don’t get me wrong, he’s definitely a slave to honor and risks lives unnecessarily, but I can still see where he’s coming from. Before the samurai took over, the island was full of thieves and criminals running rampant. Killing each other in their sleep, robbing, fighting dirty ( not against outsiders, but against each other ) So when the samurai fixed the island and made their code about being upfront, fighting with honor and respect, setting an example, etc. It was a good cause, and it still is a good cause. They don’t want people to revert back to being savages. It makes complete sense. The thing is, with the situations changing, you do have to adapt to keep people safe. If someone knows how you fight, knows what you’ll do, you CANT keep doing the same thing. You have to adjust your tactics and battle plans. Dying needlessly will only make your people suffer more. Maybe Shimura wanted to hold strong to the traditions all the way to the end, so people would know, even in the face of death, he kept his honor. Once again, a noble thing, and the fact he would do that shows how brave he is, HOWEVER, it’s not worth it to do that, if it only results in everyone being defenseless. I believe that if Shimura would’ve allowed Jin to be more flexible and do what he needed to fight, we wouldn’t have had that heartbreaking ending. But I don’t think Shimura is a bad person or deserves the hate he’s getting for being honorable. He really is trying his hardest to set an example for everyone & is willing to die for everyone on Tsushima, that alone speaks about the great man he is. He cries when Jin is being taken away and sentenced, because he is still duty bound, ( and yes, he tried to pin it on Yuna and have her executed instead, which isn’t that honorable ) but of course he’s going to be a little hypocritical when it comes to his family. Jin is literally the only family he has left and is like his son. Which one of us wouldn’t be hypocritical and break the rules a bit if it came to protecting our child or family? All this to say, Shimura is a great man, I think if he was just willing to be a little more flexible, he and Jin would’ve worked things out & we could’ve had a happy ending.
As much as I never forgave Shimura for my horse, I completely agree with you. The characters in this game all feel like the protagonists of their own stories, which is a testament to how well written they are.
Something i adore about the game, Is that while on the surface view you might think its a "Samurai Tradition" that Jin is fighting against... Its not, In any way, Not only were real Samurai fully encouraging of everything Jin did and would, Infact get mad if their subordinates DIDNT go to those measures when needed, But its mentioned several times throughout the game, That this is a specific thing enforced by Lord Shimura. These are his rules and his requirements as Jito, Rules and Requirements that Jins father often fought against him with, And we constantly see the other Samurai of the Island struggle to follow. It creates this interesting thing where Jin is 100% Right in terms of things a Samurai is allowed to do, But is still in the wrong simply for going against His Lord, His Jito, Even though the entire premise for their relationship falling apart, Is Shimuras obtrusive and backwards Laws and Expectations, It plays into a similar tone as Lady Adachi and Sensei Ishikawa where much of the conflict stems from treating themselves as better, or superior to Jin, Still viewing him not as a Peer, but a Child. Which is where much of Lord Shimuras issues stem from as well, He was never in the mindset of the Jito in this war, Nor a Samurai but that of a Father, Who wanted a squeaky-clean shiny Son beyond redoubt, And Jins actions in that much less became an issue that he did them, But that he, the Boy to replace Lord Shimura who was openly against such acts, Continued to do them. It creates a fun thing where if you actually look at how Lord Shimura acts, He could not give two hoots about people doing what jin is doing, He recruits pirates, bandits, criminals to his causes and leaves them in-debt so that he can best make use of them, And already deep itno Jins "Fall" he HAPPILY, Brushes aside all that hes done when rescued with an "Understandable, But dont do it" So it creates this really interesting balance where, While someone uninformed or misinformed will think this is a SAMURAI vs JIN Issue, Its in reality, Simply Shimuras ludicrous expectations against Jin. Creates something fun for those that are in the know on how much Samurai actually salivated over guns, and devoted entire family-branches of their own clans to becoming Shinobi because of their invaluable assistance in Politics and Warfare, Makes me find the entire situation quite funny because Shimura really does blow it up as a "You're going against the Samurai way by doing this" But none of jins actions besides going against Shimuras orders, are actually against any of that.
Shimura is just a romantization of the honor code. Even more so when in Iki island DLC we find out that Kazumasa was acting more like historical Samurai did bringing fear and terror to those that would not be under the Samurai's rule even go as slaughtering villagers that helped the enemy
Anybody else laugh out loud when Lord Shimura pontificated about honor & integrity then in the same breath tells Jin to pin the ghost’s actions on Yuna to save himself?
This is what this video meant when it stated he lost his family to honor. He couldn't reconcile the betrayal jin made to the value he taught him and their inability to protect Tsushima. Shimura was wrong there, for sure, but it stems more from desperation than malice. His code was his past and present, Jin was his future. And with the ghost he felt like the latter was lost. So he lashed out to the one that made it possible. Anyone could have saved Jin that day, but only one made his transformation possible. And so Yuna is responsible in his eyes.
@@Youalrightboi the fact that Shimura even have fanboys that are trying to spin the entire "YuNa hAs CoRrUpTeD Jin" narrative is hilarious. Jin was the one who decided to use the poison the second he heard about it from Yuriko, not Yuna. Jin was the one who embraced his identity of the Ghost, not Yuna. All Yuna did was laying out the seeds of the story about the Ghost, to give people something to believe in. As for backstabbing your enemies, Kothun Khan convinced Jin that it is necessary as much as Yuna did the moment he threw him off that bridge.
I believe people often view this story in black and white. Most comments or video's I see often portray the honor of Lord Shimura as rigid, outdated, and unnecessary. While Jin's actions are often viewed as the "right" choices. I can't help but feel this is because we see the story mainly behind the eyes of Jin Sakai. A good example of how Jin's actions have unforeseen consequences due to being short sighted is the retaliation from the Mongols after Jin poisoned them at castle Shimura. Not only did the Mongols burn villages in retaliation to the poisoning, they started using the poison against the people of Tsushima, the very people Jin wanted to protect. He directly caused their deaths because he was controlled by his emotions. This can also be seen on Iki island, where Kazumasa Sakai ruled through fear, slaughtering villagers and murdering innocents due to him feeling betrayed by the people of Iki island. While it is not directly said in the game, it was clear that Kazumasa Sakai was controlled by his emotions on Iki island and lead to the deaths of many people undeserving of that fate due to his emotions getting the better of him, much like Jin when he poisoned the Mongols. As for Lord Shimura, everything that Lord Shimura did that is often seen as wrong is when he breaks his code and is controlled by his emotions. The 2 main examples that come to mind are when Shimura backhands Jin across the face, letting his emotions get the better of him and practically severe their bond. The other is when Shimura tries to blame Yuna for Jins actions. While he is not wrong that Yuna had a hand in the path Jin chose, it was ultimately Jin that broke the code and poisoned the mongols. Shimura is trying to blame Yuna, who is innocent in this situation. It is his emotion of love for his son that makes him want to turn in Yuna and have her killed instead. The only "wrong" action I can see of where Shimura is not ruled by his emotions but his code of honor is the final duel between Jin Sakai and Lord Shimura. But even then, I don't believe it is "wrong". In his eyes, he must put the end to the ghost, who rules the battlefield through fear and terror, which very much so could lead to the people of Tsushima being ruled by fear. While it is heartbreaking to see a father feel the need to kill his own son, I do not believe it is necessarily the wrong decision. While writing this, I realized I completely negelected Yarikawa and Lord Shimura's relation to it. He believes the people of Yarikawa to all be thieves and crooks due to his interactions with the people of Yarikawa during the rebellion. Instead of being calm and trying to find what the Yarikawa's peoples reasoning for their rebellion is, he instead views them all as rats and thieves out of anger from their rebellion, once again being controlled by his emotions. Sorry for the two larger paragraphs, I just wanted to finally write my thoughts out on the story somewhere. While I do believe that both sides have their merits, the reason I mainly defended Lord Shimuras code of honor here is due to what I have seen where people often times believe Jin is completely right, or at least much more than he actually is in my eyes. If you took the time to read all of this, I appreciate it. Would be nice to hear other peoples' thoughts on what I said here.
Very well said. Honor protects one’s legacy. The question is when honor fails to protects that. The thing is that if Jin hadn’t done what he did, then the mongols would probably have won and everything would be lost.
@Paul-kv1qw While I can see that possibility for act 1, I dont believe that is true for act 2. The reason he chose to continue on his path in act 2 was not because he thought it to be the only option, but the preferable option as he believed less lives would be lost if he just poisoned the Mongols. Which didn't work out for him, cause the Mongols retaliated by slaughtering more people of tsushima and using the poison for themselves. Also, I do think there is some merit to the words Shimura said about the people that died on the bridge being soldiers. They signed up for it, they knew what they were getting themselves into. The people that died to the Mongols retaliation asked for none of it, and were slaughtered due to Jins decision.
@mamaduck1136 TLDR is that the idea of honor is much more complicated than people make it out to be, and that Lord Shimura is right in more ways than people give him credit for.
@@lankylizard3584 very true. It even shocked me, when I found the poisoned village. Both sides have merits and it’s interesting how Jins actions have consequences. It probably wouldn’t have been a problem, if Jins actions were more covert and could be hidden.
Thing is too is that Shimura is a good man. Stubborn, set in his ways, and sometimes arrogant. But he clearly loves his people, does the best he can to help them, and is quite wise. I love Shimura as a character. Shimura was married, but his wife died before they could conceive children. Jin actually suggests that Shimura remarry at the end of the game on the way to the final duel. Speaking of, I did both endings. I cried at the kill ending. The love that they had as a father and son really affected me. I have a rocky relationship with my own father. We are so alike it bothers him, but so different that it’s hard to find common interests.
As Sensei Ishikawa pointed out, the Samurai and their noble controllers are killers just like the Mongols regardless of their pretenses of 'honor'. Only difference being that the Mongols, here at least, see their citizens as cogs in their war machine with even peasants rising to be commanders and in the Khan's good graces. The nobles and Samurai are only concerned with their way of life while the Mongols have a grander vision even if it does come with bloodshed. Lord Shimura embodies this stagnation.
Lord Shimura Jito of Tsushima Master swordsman Mentor of Jin Sakai Bane of Clan Yarikawa Loyal servant of the Shogun Headstrong samurai who always charges towards his enemies He stubbornly follow the samurai code rather than seeking pragmatic means to defeat the mongols He is a slave to his honor He cannot change
What kind of interesting is that Bushido is kind of a “modern” idea in Japan spurred on by one Inazo Nitobe. The one that we often see portrayed is more of this modern idea focusing on honor and morals while the one that was practiced during the Sengoku era, Namboku, Kamakura, Muromachi etc was more focused on valor, sure they have overlap but if you look at historically how samurai actually waged war, it was no different than any other warrior class. They double teamed their enemies, used “dirty” tactics, seiged enemies out using blockades to starve their enemies, if they had an advantage they exploited it, if they couldn’t win a battle they retreated. It this modern day interpretation that created this misunderstanding that samurai were all honorable and fought in a noble manner, when in reality they fought in the most barbaric manner possible, whatever they did to win, for the true samurai code victory and valor was prized above anything else.
I think there's a really good way to move forward into the next game, without Shimura that doesn't complicate things. If anyone remembers, Suckerpunch is pretty good at doing carry over from game to game based on save data and trophies, so that way regardless of what ending you chose, you could go with Lord Shimura dying either way. Allow me to elaborate: carrying over from the Kill ending, it just consists of referencing that Jin killed Shimura. But say you went with the Spare ending. You could just go with finding out that after Jin spared Shimura (something that, in accordance to the samurai honor code, would be seen as shameful), Lord Shimura committed seppuku to end his own life with honor. Something that you could also build a strong narrative off of as well. Shimura ending his own life, not just slavish adherence to the samurai code of honor, he morally and philosophically values so much, but also put a twist on it, where Jin discovers that Shimura also did it, to Spare Jin (and himself) from having to be the one leading the hunt for the Ghost. In short, Shimura sacrificed himself for honor but also as a selfless act of love for his nephew and adopted son.
Jin summed it up quite well when he said to his Uncle he is a slave to his honor. I choose to spare the Uncle, and I think the voice actor of Jin considers it the canon ending.
I like the JP dub more. Uncle says, "you've thrown away your honor" Jin rebukes with "What IS honor?" It was his uncle that taught him that honor is saving the people so his uncle can't even rebuke back. So he's basically saying it's his uncle who threw away his honor... doing bad things to save Jin's hide. But we all know Jin don't need saving, he's a dam player character. So it all just ends up with his uncle wasting his honor. Poor sod.
Man that part at the end when Jin n his uncle draw their swords n the music kicks in is peak cinema n hits you in the feels so powerful I tear up thinking about😔🔥💯#WhereMenCried
@@CynicGTA dude it kills me how Days Gone was treated and we will never get a sequel but yet we get horizon zero interest and all it's remakes and sequel and spinoffs and TLOU gets remade and remastered over and over . and now Sony is investing $250 million into a live service IP by Bend Studio instead of Days Gone 2🤦🏿♂️💀
@@ElPatron42069 days gone has some really interesting zombie lore. They could have continued with the secret ending and do something crazy with the game. but sony is dumb and always makes retarded decisions. i hate how people try to cover up the fact that tlou 2 was garbage story telling with character assassination.
I think lord shimura is the only one with such a severe moral code when sensei ishikawa and lady masako saw him using stealth attacks and tricks they didn't seem to care and others even commented how jin starts acring more like his father
I have my respect for people who cherishes honor. There is certain beauty in taking a risk of their own life to do things the right way, and Shimura came off like such person at first. But, two specific events made it clear that Shimura is in fact a dishonorable person. First is when he orders his men to fix the bridge knowing he is sending his men to a meat-grinder. It would have been honorable for lord Shimura if he participated in the event himself, but he would rather send his troops so he can cherish his imaginary sense of honor. Second is when he told Jin to frame Yuna for what Jin did. Shimura is doing exactly what he tells Jin not to do: taking the necessary measure however dirty it may be.
"In certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law. To pursue... natural justice. This is not vengeance. Revenge is not a valid motive, it's an emotional response. No, not vengeance. Punishment." -Frank Castle
Lord Shimura is a politician and Jin like his father a warrior. On Iki Island Jin has a memory and admits to his father that he preferred the battlefield just like his father.
Khan was spot on calling out Shimura's weakness right at the beginning,where while all he's been doing is just following tradition and ONLY tradition instead of thinking out of the box for once and for himself,Khan actually bothered to explore other regions,educated himself and used said knowledge to his advantage and in the end,Jin only cemented that fact..The Fact that him being a slave to honor. Lord Shimura really upsets me,He's genuinely a good but misguided character and i can understand his higher position in which you can't just do whatever you want but If only he just stops for one second,understands and saw that there are more things in life than just honor and tradition.Him being so single minded,chained and sheltered to such an sad,isolated but nonetheless an honorable life kinda makes him a victim.
Also Lord Shimura having his family damaged is symbolic of how people in his position not only conspire and plot against each other in deadly power games but also how they tend to oppress and even massacre people they consider beneath them, not batting an eye as families are wiped out. The fact that they often use people similar to the Ghost to carry out these atrocities is glaring.
There are people called Ronins. mercenaries . Its their job . Samurais cant do these dirty works ,as they are actually influencers . People look upto them and hear their stories and follow them . now , kid will disobey their parents or elder because they heard a story where LORD SAKAI OPENLY DEFIED LORD SHIMURA. They will say , if he can , why cant we . Jin created chaos and disorder in the society. Jin hasnt wrote a self help book ,where people can read his views . They will hear distored and exaggereted stories and will make their own version of story about him , and will spread chaos and fear everywhere.
@@YoualrightboiLord samurais (like Jin, Shimura and Adachi) are “influencers” like you said, but ordinary samurai soldiers (every samurai dressed in an ordinary armor) don’t have to follow the “honor” rules, but Shimura wanted to keep them in line too. For example to preserve the honour of the lords Shimura could have sent an ordinary samurai to poison the mongols’ food when liberating his castle, but he didn’t want to so Jin had to take the matter into his own hands and act
I really loved this dynamic between them unfold, even though I had the faintest of idea on how the ending would’ve been for Jin. Jin giving up his beliefs and breaking everything that his clan, and uncle have essentially lived by for generations for essentially the better of Tsushima and its people from the opposition. Then you have Shimura whose belief in living by the samurai code and his loyalty to the Shogun being absolute - would rather damn the lives of many because it’s “honourable” .
You gotta talk bout the side quest next some of the side quest was so sad and tragic. Those stories is really what made ghost of Tsushima so good not just the main story.
I loved the kill Lord Shimura ending. So incredibly emotional and powerful and showed that Jin always had honor in him to his uncle. I always kept the mentality of not wanted to use Ghost tactics even on Hard mode and only really did it when the mission required me too. But both endings could work quite well depending on how you view the story.
He was willing to frame an innocent woman to protect his family. I don’t want to hear about his honor. I’m kind of disappointed that Jin didn’t call him out for that.
TLDR: Careful what tactics you use, they'll be the standard practice after the conflict is done. IN Depth: Their honor code was similar to our modern rules of warfare, or any other time period. They are rules of combat meant to quite literally gamefy wareware and limit civilian casualties long term. 1-If you use A tactic because is easier, those that come after you will do the same for their own goals. You can't control the genie after its let out. 2-Guerilla warfare is based on guile and taking advantage of things, terrain, numbers, people, supplies etc. A-Take for example the Samurai on the Island wouldn't have been able to defeat the Mongols, they didn't have the numbers. According to their code they fought and lost. The Shogun would have shown up in force, and defeat the Mongols. At a huge cost, but they would have. After the conflict Order and stability would remain, as civilians still observe the code of conduct for that time (in the game). B-Take for example the Ghost. Violating standard rules to save more lives now, but the repercussions long term meant civil war, use of poison as standard practice among enemies en mass. -= The Romans pacified Gaul/Modern day France but literally wiping out the majority of its population. Even by ancient standards quite harsh but acceptable. -= The US and other countries now a days. It would be absolutely easy to literally wipe out entire cities, deplete the local population when the US goes to any country for any resource needed at the time. Making it easier to save our own lives, and replace the local culture with one our choosing. We have the firepower and the technology to wage war at an ancient scale. But if we do, we give the green light for any others to do so the same. So we don't, we focus on precision to limit collateral damage. We can't eliminate it but we do our best to minimize it. Now a days we purposely limit our own power for long term results. -= Rules of conduct during warfare are to maintain order after the conflict is done. The game is the idea of self determination vs long term stability. The two are exclusive to each other. Neither one are right or wrong, just depends on what you hold valuable. Life or stability and prosperity. Different cultures value both differently. Great game, enjoy!
I love this story, and the dynamic between Lord Shimura and Jin. But, I've noticed that people tend to dump on Lord Shimura for his rigidity and praise Jin for his flexibility, but I think the situation is a lot more complex than that. I think people tend to overlook that Lord Shimura was right in a lot of ways. Jin used poison as a weapon of mass destruction, and as Lord Shimura pointed out, the Mongols later gained that same weapon as a direct result of Jin's recklessness. Jin had a lot of good points too, but I think both parties are guilty not being more open to the other's merits. And that's the thing, I think that people forget that there is a lot of merit in Lord Shimura's point of view too. While Jin was focused on dealing with the immediate threats, Lord Shimura was considering the long term concequences of their actions. As Lord Shimura points out at the end of the game, the people became divided between those loyal to the Ghost and those loyal to the Shogun. Another civil uprising is now looming over Tsushima. We don't get to see what ultimately happens in the game, but it very well may be that Jin's decisions prove to be more costly to Tsushima than Lord Shimura's would have been.
I hope the part 2 will be called "Ghosts of Tsushima" where Jin will train others to be a ghost too. (that way maybe we'll have multiple playable characters, each which has unique storyline that ties with the main storyline)
This game teaches us flexibility in our thoughts...not be a rigid person who cant adapt himself/herself to a change... We all have to get our hands dirty in order to wipe out the dirt.....i like this concept... Be flexible and learn new stuffs in order to survive otherwise our ego will cause our extinction..
My problem with shimura was that he tried replacing Jin's father, not as a adopted father but as a replacement father. Apparently kusamasa would condone Jin's new way of fighting, since yuriko said as much and he terrorized iki island. I think shimura was jealous of kusamasa of having a son and after he died he wanted to take Jin away from him in death
And Yuriko did say Shimura and Kazumasa argued a lot due to their different approaches towards battle. Kazumasa was more like Jin; bring the enemy to heel by any means necessary. Shimura was more of taking the traditional route.
Shimura’s problem: certain codes seldom if ever stand the test of time. Codes, Creeds and the like, are all guidelines on how to proceed with dealing with problems ranging from the usual day to day mundane, to Wartime Armageddon. In the case of the Mongol invasion and his capture following the “Komoda Beach massacre” He preached Bushido, which in of itself is fine, but When he was finally liberated from his captivity. His First couple of mistakes or so was made -summarized with these quotes “Your Enemy he’s not gonna play fair” Kilowag; Green Lantern 2007 -“You Learn more from defeats than you do from Victories” Sir Alex Ferguson -and finally “Any Man can make Mistakes but only an Idiot persists in his error” Marcus Tullius Cicero There is a legitimate reason Why and How the Mongol Empire’s expansion was so effective and Successful. They were in a word(s): Ruthless, Merciless. Specific reasons and means I will not commit to this comment. Jin Sakai in that regard with the wisdom he gleaned from his supplemental teachers: Learned from his Failure. While Jito Didn’t even try to. His Final Mistake which effectively “Killed” his Family can be summarized by the following Quotes -if it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it” Marcus Aurelius -“Just because it is the most logical/Rational course of action, doesn’t make it the right way” (me) -“It is possible to commit no Mistakes and still Lose. That is not a weakness. That is Life” Captain Jean Luc Picard Star Trek The Next Generation as portrayed by Sir Patrick Steward. Jin Sakai had his Uncle Pegged
Just like any other parent, teaching their children the same thing that their parents taught them and most of the time they're right, but not in the case with Jin, if he continued to follow the old teachings from his uncle without needing to improvise, tsushima would fall to the mongols.
I honestly think that the canon ending is Shimura being spared because Jin’s story is about going against his samurai code and honour to go against the Mongals
He and Miyamoto Musashi have a lot in common when it comes to going against samurai tradition; That's definitely someone he should come across and learn from in the sequal, The video game was awesome through-and-through one of the best I've seen and played thus far, (next to red dead redemption 2) keep up the good work sucker punch; As far as the character of jin sakai goes I do not consider him a hypocrite or a tratior to honor at all, He continued to show himself to be the most honorable, more so than his uncle due to the fact that he valued innocent lives more than the need to appease the rigid dogma of the bushido code for the sake of his uncle and the shogun, they were facing an enemy that was using their code against them to take over the land and the people and jin saw no other choice but to break away from that in order for his people and his country to survive the murderous onslaught of the mongols, Thus it forced him down a path that he was Initially resistant to but ultimately embraced for the good of everyone Which in turn has made him a beloved living legend among his people as well as tsushima's very own japanese zorro, He may have sacrificed and lost everything because of the harsh choices he was forced to make, but he also gained a whole lot more from his willingness to sacrifice and lose everything for the greater good of all and he for a video game character has my utmost respect for that. His uncle however is the villain of his own story because he was willing to sacrifice an innocent woman like jin's friend yuna to the shogun and blame the poisoning of the mongols on her; something a man of honor should never do, so I personally don't care about lord shimura's pain, he deserves it and what better way for him to suffer more than to be spared and live with the humiliation of having his own nephew and "son" go on to become a better person and greater legend than him, the shogun and the entire class of the samurai. LONG LIVE THE GHOST!!! 🔥💯😉😁👍
Personally I would have joined lord shimura as his son, but to be remembered as the ghost, a hero, is a equal trade off from being Jin lord shimura, some times I wish we could have chosen to go down that path, the "bad" way of the ghost.
I know it’s not canon, but I killed Shimura. Kind of as a way to show, even if Jin seemed too far gone, a reckless liability to the Shogun and Shimura, he still has it. The thing he started the whole ordeal for. Family. Honor one last wish, even if he betrayed Jin, he is still family.
Just started playing this game again. Even at the end. While I prefer the White variant of the Ghost armor, I just can't bring myself to kill Shimura. Jin's final betrayal to the Samurai way and his full embrace into the Ghost.
Agreed, while I've come to appreciate the Kill ending; I remain convinced that the Spare ending is the more fitting conclusion to Jin's character arc over the course of the game.
Nah, he would have honoured his uncle's wish. Walk away and leave an honourable man in shame is the selfish thing to do here, and his entire arc is about being selfless.
I would have chosen the kill ending if i hadn't play the dlc where Jin spares another major MAJOR person involved in his father's death to prove he is not like his father and his own person carving his own path. And that path deviates from being samurai or honorable but still having compassion. So to reject honor a final time and defy it, as well as sparing his only family member (after sparing the man who killed his father, at that) felt more in line with Jin's character for me.
@@Bloomingtide Even without the DLC I would of spared him. Taka died and alot of the Jitos people died. Killing his uncle for being a slave to honor isn't going to make amends for what he's done as the shogun has the final say. He already disbanded his clan and tarnished his name. Took his home and revoked his adoption from Shimura. Saving Tsushima was the path he chose and sacrificed everything to do it. Killing his uncle to redeem that tiny bit of honor isn't going to make him less a traitor. So in my mind I think. Send them. Send them all. They'll all die. One by one he'll only grow stronger and become smarter. Be crafty and wise with his tactics and protect his people by any means. He has work to do. For releasing the poison. All the ones misusing it and Killing royals and such.
There is no honor in trying to kill the legend who saved his people ☝️ You should understand that Shimura. Even if his ways are different from your own. He did save everyone 😤
Genius is knowing when to stop . And i m not just talking about Shimura but the ghost as well . They needed both of them . If Shimura had not followed his honored path then he wouldnt have all this much power under his hand ,which even brought Shogun's reinforcement to help defeat the khan. Ghost couldnt have done it alone . Never . While Shimura might have achieved his goal with more sacrifice but he would have achieved his goal none the less.
Im pretty sure shimura did have a wife and a heir but they died prematurely (I think you can find this at a mongol record where khotun Khan talks about shimura)
It’s important to keep in mind that the game glorified Jin Sakai by exaggerating the honor code of Samurais. The strictest manner of Samurai were never close to being honor, but loyalty, respect, and servant for their master or Shogun.
Question, if the iki island story happend before the end of the game at what point would it happend? I'd say it happends after jin gets his fathers armor (so the flashbacks makes sense) but before the fall of temuge (also i think the yarikawa rebelion happend at the same time as the sakai mission in iki, like kasumasa and lord adachi go to iki and yarikawa takes advantage of that to strike)
The Bushido code was compiled around the Edo period and basically romanticized the samurai way of life, much like the renaissance did for European knights. In reality, the samurais did what they needed to win, especially against Mongols. It doesn't make sense to fight 20 foes at once because "honor".
Shimura is only a slave to stupid military decisions. And Jin Sakai can be seen as rising despot. It's no wonder the Shogun saw him as a threat and branded him a traitor. The most pragmatic thing is to have the Shogun and Jin meet to really ascertain their motives. But that is too inconvinient to write as it will go against their messaging so they decided to make him a rogue.
The most pragmatic thing would be to have Jin clean up his own mess, since it is clear that he is still loyal to Tsushima and his uncle. Or was, until Shimura brought him to Sakai family cemetary to ease his concious, and tried to kill him just so he could keep his position of Shogun's @ss-kisser. And the funniest thing is, had Shimura succeded, his greatest fears would've become reality, because killing off the Ghost would've just made people who already lost their trust in the samurai to openly hate their protectors, and with people like Norio and Masako in Jin's allies, samurai on the entire island would've started choking on their blood.
You forgot to mention that the men Shimura sent across the bridge were Yarikawa Samurai, justifying it by saying that there would now be fewer threats left after the Mongols were gone. These men who put their faith in Jin, who has to see his Uncle callously throw them under the bus because it's convenient for him. It's the most dishonorable thing I can imagine and fully shows the hypocrisy of Shimura's code.
I still can't understand why he couldn't think for five seconds in front of his face that his code failed him and wouldn't work for him or his people and most certainly would have doomed his home and eventually all of Japan, I honestly can't think of anyone more incredible stupid than this man here who could have avoided all of this if he just stopped and and think.
@urknot7293 Codes have been bent and broken before and the lives of others are more important than rules or traditions which are just as fallible as codes, as for honor it is a matter of perspective determined by the individual as it cannot be given it must be earned and gained yourself, even Shimura should have known all this as he clearly saw the Khan turn everything he believed in against him and he literally showed and told him that his current tactics won't work against him and in his own way said that when people go to war both sides are in the wrong and will whatever it takes to win and yet despite ALL of that Shimura still tried to use his current tactics to win the day which was completely insane in my opinion not to mention the total hypocrisy and callousness for the lives of those around him no different from the Khan and his own men as he sent his own men and people to their deaths which was clearly a trap as he should have picked up on right away and was more than willing to have Yuna be executed the very person who saved his own nephew from the break of death and aided both of them in fighting the Mongols and even helped break him out of captivity for God sake and THAT'S how he repays her?After that insult I was done with him and his honor crap I was all for the Ghost from that moment forward because after what he did putting his own code and honor above his own people and nephew that's not honor at all it was arrogance and hypocrisy and in the end his own suffering and sadness was all his own making even though his heart was in the right place he chose the easy thing over the right thing and losing his nephew forever was all HIS fault which makes me wander how someone like him become jito much less a samurai if he refused to change and see past himself and see the bigger picture? But those are just my thoughts, what are yours?
@urknot7293 Yeah just wanted to get my point across and point out all the facts even though I usually don't write comments that long which is a headache
Shimura was so annoying with his strict adherence to the samurai's code of honor. To me, in some ways he was no better than Khotun. He sent people to die needlessly. I was happy to keep him alive in the end. Just so he can continue to live in a world that he created with all the blood on his hands. You realized from the opening scene of the game that the Mongols were not there to play nicely. They didn't give a damn about the samurai code of honor. A highly respected samurai died without honor because he thought he could just walk up to the Mongol leader and have a fair one-on-one with him. Only for him to be doused in oil, immolated, and have his head severed off.
Does the game actually allow you to win the first battle? It would actually be really cool if it let you beat him and give a much shorter story once you finish and try again knowing how to fight.
I doubt this code even existed at that time, after all Bushido code was created in the Edo period in the 19th century. There's no way you can wage war with only frontal attacks.
Been getting quite a few requests to cover Shimura and Jin, figured with the PC release it was a perfect time. Who next? What game next.....Mafia series?
Lady Masako maybe
Witcher 3 ?
Amazing content bro, as for next character i think you need to cover Metal Gear Solid series, especially main 3 snakes:Naked, Solid and Venom, could make great videos of that, you could also do Aiden Pearce from Watch Dogs 1, could do Geralt from Witcher 3, also seeing Disco Elysium being analyzed by you would be amazing, perfect characters for your type of videos!
Bloodborne?
@@Gfre12334fdcor even ishikawa n tomoe
If you ask me, honor was only a small part in why the Shogun orders Lord Shimura to kill Jin. I think the main reason, Shimura says this too, is what the Ghost represents. He represents defiance and he represents hope for the commoner, which threatens the hold the Shogun and the samurai in general have over the peasants of Tsushima and all of Japan. The Ghost and his tactics basically tell the common people that they don't need to put up with the cruelty of their oppressors and when the Mongols leave, who will they view as oppressors? It was less about the code and more so the fact that Jin OPENLY DEFIED the words of Lord Shimura, his lord, who he should obey without question. The Shogun sees this and thinks "what will the people do after they just witnessed their hero defy the words of his betters?"
The Ghost is the face of resistance, and resistance has no place in samurai dominated society.
"His betters" who themselves are not better... because every shogun knows just the type underhanded things they had to do in order to become the shogun... oh well
@@MMFerreiraBruno precisely. That's why I love Ghost of Tsushima. It's such a great nod to the Chanbara genre while also bringing up some of the grim realities of the samurai and their society.
You sometimes can hear some peasants talk about how they believe the ghost is one of them because of the poisons he used are the same that a farmer would know
The fact that the Shogunate deems the Ghost the greater threat than the Mongols speaks volumes about how much it cares about the commoners.
This will also make an interesting plot element in the second Ghost of Tsushima game, in which Jin may be forced to fight the Shogunate in the midst of the Second Mongol Invasion.
@@josephsu9574 I don't believe the shogunate "cares" abour the people they care about shifting loyalty, like any president nowadays.The fact that Jin is becoming more beloved and respected than the shogun is the problem, that both him, Shimura and certainly many others feel that way IS the bigger problem imo. But leave it to greed to f things up every time.
Shimura: You have no honor
Jin: And you are a slave to It
Both men are correct.
@sladehildebrand7518 nah, Jin had honor. Samurai were needed when dishonesty ruled and they needed something people could see and trust, something unbendable to build around. It wasn't sustainable and the rigid compliance to it ultimately became a risk to the entire culture and people. Jin became what they needed at the time it was his job to keep them safe
@@sladehildebrand7518Jin has honor, it's not some GTA game where you Can cut down everyone. He only wages war
@@DRourkey It's basically the Batman story. A tale as old as time.
@sladehildebrand7518 shimura was wrong. Jin had honor he defended those who could not and inspired those who could, and he did the most honorable thing, which was doing whatever it took to defend his land from invaders who had overwhelming numbers and force on their side who also had no limit to what willing to do conquer the island.
if i have to shed my honor so that innocents are liberated, so they can be safe, then i shed my honor gladly, without hesitation.
Whatever it takes. Whatever the cost
But at a cost of the people being more Rogue and hard to control, because they Will not follow their leader
@@rafifargi974 Then they have proven themselves unworthy of people the leader of the people and thus have earned the disobedience
It's a slippery slope sure hope you know that.
@@rafifargi974 i know that we're debating a topic in a game but anywho.
here's the thing people will ALWAYS respect,follow and obey those with power until that power reaches their necks so unless jin opreses his people most of them will be loyal to him, people will be rogue and hard to control in the absence of rules and laws.
how do i know that? i live in a contry that has been through 2 revolutiones and a military coup d'état in the last 14 years
Ghost of Tsushima is such a gorgeous game man I can't stop replaying it
It's one of the best ever PS4 games.
I killed him the first time, sparred him the other 4 times
@@KaotikArtPurrpsi havent killed him so i might this time since he been pissing me off
I replayed it for 2 years non stop, i don't regret anything
I can
In Ghost of Tsushima the three Main Side quests are kind of side stories to "Honor"
Ishikawa, at the final stretch regrets ever choosing Honor over his daughter Tomoe.
Masako Adachi, lost her family in turn she willingly let go of any honor while she fights, supporting Jin's more discrete, or "Dishonorable" manner of fighting, she openly agrees to it even.
Norio, is a monk who let go of his learnings in the chase of revenge to the Mongol who butchered his brother.
Basically Honor comes with a high cost, Honor is a rigid construct that limits, and Letting go of Honor to be a Brother first.
It's Jin, this is the whole game told by three other characters journey.
Very well said.
I feel like with Norio in particular shows exactly what people like Shimura fear with warriors who lack honor. The destruction caused by the monk was swift, indiscriminate, and horrific it was as if a monster tore through. Their was no self control
@@Broomer52 It also implied that he did think of acting like a Monk, but his decision came that he must be a Brother, for he was a Brother before he even became a monk.
@@fatguy4137 but Norio wasn't just acting like a brother, he was acting with cruelty rather than justice. It was at the cost of Norio losing his inner purity and peace. Jin giving Norio forgiveness for his falling into rage and revenge is a sign that both Jin and Shimura can gain redemption and inner peace back through forgiveness.
From what i remember didn’t Norio’s brother or friend who was a symbol of hope or unyielding, end up talking and revealing after days or possibly weeks of Torture
A cool detail to notice as well is that Jin finishes the duel between him and Lord Shimura in a unique way. If you remember from the flashback when Jin and Lord Shimura were hunting the bear, Lord Shimura is attacked by an assassin from Yarikawa and is hit in the upper right arm before he disarms him. During the final dual, Jin's final slash also seems to strike the same spot that the assassin hit 20 years ago. I think this shows that not only is Jin a master in his swordsmanship, thus fulfilling Lord Shimura's words of "becoming the greatest swordsman Clan Sakai has ever known", but also shows the depth of their relationship. Jin remembers that injury not only because it was connected to the lesson Lord Shimura taught him then, but also how he had to violate that lesson (as well as many others) in order to help conquer the Mongol invasion. In my view, the strike to the arm is a deeper sign of betrayal to Lord Shimura and a sign respect for Jin on far he has come as a swordsman. I also think that this is a nod to the Kurosawa films of the past and their style of samurai duels that often end in one slash of the katana.
Shimura's chained to Bushido that cost him nearly his entire family is possibly directly tied to Kenny Ackerman's statement in Attack on Titan: "Everyone had to be drunk on something to keep pushing on. Everyone was a slave to something."
And the idea of Jin Sakai relinquishing the Samurai code after the Mongol invasion, turning down being his uncle's offer of being his heir, and seeing the flaws of Shimura's honor is the character drive for the main protagonist in becoming the Ghost.
The Developers have confirmed sparring him is the canon ending as you fully embrace the ghost
I chose to spare Shimura in the end. I love that ending because when Jin refuses to kill him, he doesn't even argue. He just warns him that Jin will be hunted until the day he dies. Shimura finally accepted that Jin was the ghost. Imo, the spare ending is canon.
And also he seemed sort of proud that he chose his own path when he was trying not to cry before Jin walks off imo
@@TheJalinmyles Yeah, tears of proudness. Like you said, he's proud that Jin is becoming his own legend, even though he hated it at first.
I killed him in my first ever playthrough and spared him every time ever scince
I’ve always spared him. He wants an honorable death but at that point Jin basically has no honor, or at least not the honor that his uncle expects of him. And my version of Jin won’t lose his father again for something as nebulous as “honor”
@@shawnwalker4936wouldn’t he commit hara kiri seppuku
I was mixed about Shimura until he tried to throw someone under the bus that saved his supposed son and helped free him, honor my ass.
Same. This one action made him immediately irredeemable.
No , he actually believed that Yuna corrupted him , and which is technically true . Jin was agaisnt this , but Yuna continously asked him to choose the ghost way , she created the ghost as well . But yes, Jin decided to opt that , he had to take responsiblity .
@@YoualrightboiBut at the end of the day, Yuna at near every turn wanted to flee the island and leave the people to their fate. Jin kept strong in his resolve to save the people. Not just blind vengeance
@@Youalrightboino Yuna didn't corrupted him. He still follow Honor to his people of tsushima. Bending doesn't mean breaking
@@yokaivegaurd8707 yes , you did technically corrupted him . as i said , he was against it , yuno time to time , continously asked him to choose the ghost path . She even created this persona of" ghost" when jin did the terror act in front of large mass in the mill . She was the one to openly announce that he is ghost .
There is no bending in Jin's action , he didnt fight head on , thats all . he backstabbed people from shadows .
I love how the release of this game on PC has allowed so many more content creators to create videos about it. I haven't seen anything regarding this game in years, but now because it's on PC it makes me feel like how I felt back when the game was initially released. Hope everyone loves it and gets the chance to play it
I’m almost purely empathetic. I can definitely see Shimura’s side. People give him too much hate. Like, don’t get me wrong, he’s definitely a slave to honor and risks lives unnecessarily, but I can still see where he’s coming from.
Before the samurai took over, the island was full of thieves and criminals running rampant. Killing each other in their sleep, robbing, fighting dirty ( not against outsiders, but against each other ) So when the samurai fixed the island and made their code about being upfront, fighting with honor and respect, setting an example, etc. It was a good cause, and it still is a good cause. They don’t want people to revert back to being savages. It makes complete sense. The thing is, with the situations changing, you do have to adapt to keep people safe. If someone knows how you fight, knows what you’ll do, you CANT keep doing the same thing. You have to adjust your tactics and battle plans. Dying needlessly will only make your people suffer more. Maybe Shimura wanted to hold strong to the traditions all the way to the end, so people would know, even in the face of death, he kept his honor. Once again, a noble thing, and the fact he would do that shows how brave he is, HOWEVER, it’s not worth it to do that, if it only results in everyone being defenseless.
I believe that if Shimura would’ve allowed Jin to be more flexible and do what he needed to fight, we wouldn’t have had that heartbreaking ending. But I don’t think Shimura is a bad person or deserves the hate he’s getting for being honorable. He really is trying his hardest to set an example for everyone & is willing to die for everyone on Tsushima, that alone speaks about the great man he is. He cries when Jin is being taken away and sentenced, because he is still duty bound, ( and yes, he tried to pin it on Yuna and have her executed instead, which isn’t that honorable ) but of course he’s going to be a little hypocritical when it comes to his family. Jin is literally the only family he has left and is like his son. Which one of us wouldn’t be hypocritical and break the rules a bit if it came to protecting our child or family? All this to say, Shimura is a great man, I think if he was just willing to be a little more flexible, he and Jin would’ve worked things out & we could’ve had a happy ending.
As much as I never forgave Shimura for my horse, I completely agree with you.
The characters in this game all feel like the protagonists of their own stories, which is a testament to how well written they are.
The story is so damn beautiful
Something i adore about the game, Is that while on the surface view you might think its a "Samurai Tradition" that Jin is fighting against... Its not, In any way, Not only were real Samurai fully encouraging of everything Jin did and would, Infact get mad if their subordinates DIDNT go to those measures when needed, But its mentioned several times throughout the game, That this is a specific thing enforced by Lord Shimura. These are his rules and his requirements as Jito, Rules and Requirements that Jins father often fought against him with, And we constantly see the other Samurai of the Island struggle to follow.
It creates this interesting thing where Jin is 100% Right in terms of things a Samurai is allowed to do, But is still in the wrong simply for going against His Lord, His Jito, Even though the entire premise for their relationship falling apart, Is Shimuras obtrusive and backwards Laws and Expectations, It plays into a similar tone as Lady Adachi and Sensei Ishikawa where much of the conflict stems from treating themselves as better, or superior to Jin, Still viewing him not as a Peer, but a Child. Which is where much of Lord Shimuras issues stem from as well, He was never in the mindset of the Jito in this war, Nor a Samurai but that of a Father, Who wanted a squeaky-clean shiny Son beyond redoubt, And Jins actions in that much less became an issue that he did them, But that he, the Boy to replace Lord Shimura who was openly against such acts, Continued to do them.
It creates a fun thing where if you actually look at how Lord Shimura acts, He could not give two hoots about people doing what jin is doing, He recruits pirates, bandits, criminals to his causes and leaves them in-debt so that he can best make use of them, And already deep itno Jins "Fall" he HAPPILY, Brushes aside all that hes done when rescued with an "Understandable, But dont do it" So it creates this really interesting balance where, While someone uninformed or misinformed will think this is a SAMURAI vs JIN Issue, Its in reality, Simply Shimuras ludicrous expectations against Jin.
Creates something fun for those that are in the know on how much Samurai actually salivated over guns, and devoted entire family-branches of their own clans to becoming Shinobi because of their invaluable assistance in Politics and Warfare, Makes me find the entire situation quite funny because Shimura really does blow it up as a "You're going against the Samurai way by doing this" But none of jins actions besides going against Shimuras orders, are actually against any of that.
Holy yappingtons
It’s a romanticization
It’s the same type as Western knights cause in reality both Knights and Samurai don’t have this naive sense of “honor”
Shimura is just a romantization of the honor code. Even more so when in Iki island DLC we find out that Kazumasa was acting more like historical Samurai did bringing fear and terror to those that would not be under the Samurai's rule even go as slaughtering villagers that helped the enemy
Anybody else laugh out loud when Lord Shimura pontificated about honor & integrity then in the same breath tells Jin to pin the ghost’s actions on Yuna to save himself?
This is what this video meant when it stated he lost his family to honor. He couldn't reconcile the betrayal jin made to the value he taught him and their inability to protect Tsushima.
Shimura was wrong there, for sure, but it stems more from desperation than malice. His code was his past and present, Jin was his future. And with the ghost he felt like the latter was lost. So he lashed out to the one that made it possible.
Anyone could have saved Jin that day, but only one made his transformation possible. And so Yuna is responsible in his eyes.
No , because he strongly believed and kinda true when he said Yuna corrupted him . Didnt she?
@@Youalrightboi the fact that Shimura even have fanboys that are trying to spin the entire "YuNa hAs CoRrUpTeD Jin" narrative is hilarious. Jin was the one who decided to use the poison the second he heard about it from Yuriko, not Yuna. Jin was the one who embraced his identity of the Ghost, not Yuna. All Yuna did was laying out the seeds of the story about the Ghost, to give people something to believe in. As for backstabbing your enemies, Kothun Khan convinced Jin that it is necessary as much as Yuna did the moment he threw him off that bridge.
I believe people often view this story in black and white. Most comments or video's I see often portray the honor of Lord Shimura as rigid, outdated, and unnecessary. While Jin's actions are often viewed as the "right" choices. I can't help but feel this is because we see the story mainly behind the eyes of Jin Sakai. A good example of how Jin's actions have unforeseen consequences due to being short sighted is the retaliation from the Mongols after Jin poisoned them at castle Shimura. Not only did the Mongols burn villages in retaliation to the poisoning, they started using the poison against the people of Tsushima, the very people Jin wanted to protect. He directly caused their deaths because he was controlled by his emotions. This can also be seen on Iki island, where Kazumasa Sakai ruled through fear, slaughtering villagers and murdering innocents due to him feeling betrayed by the people of Iki island. While it is not directly said in the game, it was clear that Kazumasa Sakai was controlled by his emotions on Iki island and lead to the deaths of many people undeserving of that fate due to his emotions getting the better of him, much like Jin when he poisoned the Mongols.
As for Lord Shimura, everything that Lord Shimura did that is often seen as wrong is when he breaks his code and is controlled by his emotions. The 2 main examples that come to mind are when Shimura backhands Jin across the face, letting his emotions get the better of him and practically severe their bond. The other is when Shimura tries to blame Yuna for Jins actions. While he is not wrong that Yuna had a hand in the path Jin chose, it was ultimately Jin that broke the code and poisoned the mongols. Shimura is trying to blame Yuna, who is innocent in this situation. It is his emotion of love for his son that makes him want to turn in Yuna and have her killed instead. The only "wrong" action I can see of where Shimura is not ruled by his emotions but his code of honor is the final duel between Jin Sakai and Lord Shimura. But even then, I don't believe it is "wrong". In his eyes, he must put the end to the ghost, who rules the battlefield through fear and terror, which very much so could lead to the people of Tsushima being ruled by fear. While it is heartbreaking to see a father feel the need to kill his own son, I do not believe it is necessarily the wrong decision. While writing this, I realized I completely negelected Yarikawa and Lord Shimura's relation to it. He believes the people of Yarikawa to all be thieves and crooks due to his interactions with the people of Yarikawa during the rebellion. Instead of being calm and trying to find what the Yarikawa's peoples reasoning for their rebellion is, he instead views them all as rats and thieves out of anger from their rebellion, once again being controlled by his emotions.
Sorry for the two larger paragraphs, I just wanted to finally write my thoughts out on the story somewhere. While I do believe that both sides have their merits, the reason I mainly defended Lord Shimuras code of honor here is due to what I have seen where people often times believe Jin is completely right, or at least much more than he actually is in my eyes. If you took the time to read all of this, I appreciate it. Would be nice to hear other peoples' thoughts on what I said here.
Very well said. Honor protects one’s legacy. The question is when honor fails to protects that.
The thing is that if Jin hadn’t done what he did, then the mongols would probably have won and everything would be lost.
whats the tldr?
@Paul-kv1qw While I can see that possibility for act 1, I dont believe that is true for act 2. The reason he chose to continue on his path in act 2 was not because he thought it to be the only option, but the preferable option as he believed less lives would be lost if he just poisoned the Mongols. Which didn't work out for him, cause the Mongols retaliated by slaughtering more people of tsushima and using the poison for themselves. Also, I do think there is some merit to the words Shimura said about the people that died on the bridge being soldiers. They signed up for it, they knew what they were getting themselves into. The people that died to the Mongols retaliation asked for none of it, and were slaughtered due to Jins decision.
@mamaduck1136 TLDR is that the idea of honor is much more complicated than people make it out to be, and that Lord Shimura is right in more ways than people give him credit for.
@@lankylizard3584 very true. It even shocked me, when I found the poisoned village. Both sides have merits and it’s interesting how Jins actions have consequences.
It probably wouldn’t have been a problem, if Jins actions were more covert and could be hidden.
Thing is too is that Shimura is a good man. Stubborn, set in his ways, and sometimes arrogant. But he clearly loves his people, does the best he can to help them, and is quite wise. I love Shimura as a character.
Shimura was married, but his wife died before they could conceive children. Jin actually suggests that Shimura remarry at the end of the game on the way to the final duel.
Speaking of, I did both endings. I cried at the kill ending. The love that they had as a father and son really affected me. I have a rocky relationship with my own father. We are so alike it bothers him, but so different that it’s hard to find common interests.
Exactly ive been so conflicted in the game shimura isn’t evil but his stubbornness is his downfall seeing jin and his uncle fall apart is so sad
Shimura is Western fantasy of samurai
Jin is historical of samurai
As Sensei Ishikawa pointed out, the Samurai and their noble controllers are killers just like the Mongols regardless of their pretenses of 'honor'. Only difference being that the Mongols, here at least, see their citizens as cogs in their war machine with even peasants rising to be commanders and in the Khan's good graces. The nobles and Samurai are only concerned with their way of life while the Mongols have a grander vision even if it does come with bloodshed. Lord Shimura embodies this stagnation.
Lord Shimura
Jito of Tsushima
Master swordsman
Mentor of Jin Sakai
Bane of Clan Yarikawa
Loyal servant of the Shogun
Headstrong samurai who always charges towards his enemies
He stubbornly follow the samurai code rather than seeking pragmatic means to defeat the mongols
He is a slave to his honor
He cannot change
That’s why they fail until hun goes against the code and beats the mongols
Is that a god of war reference?
@@Dungeon-Edits Someone got it. A reference that can be played around with other game characters from other games as well.
What kind of interesting is that Bushido is kind of a “modern” idea in Japan spurred on by one Inazo Nitobe. The one that we often see portrayed is more of this modern idea focusing on honor and morals while the one that was practiced during the Sengoku era, Namboku, Kamakura, Muromachi etc was more focused on valor, sure they have overlap but if you look at historically how samurai actually waged war, it was no different than any other warrior class. They double teamed their enemies, used “dirty” tactics, seiged enemies out using blockades to starve their enemies, if they had an advantage they exploited it, if they couldn’t win a battle they retreated. It this modern day interpretation that created this misunderstanding that samurai were all honorable and fought in a noble manner, when in reality they fought in the most barbaric manner possible, whatever they did to win, for the true samurai code victory and valor was prized above anything else.
I will never get of Lord shimuras ability to slapped metal like he was slapping jins face
I think there's a really good way to move forward into the next game, without Shimura that doesn't complicate things. If anyone remembers, Suckerpunch is pretty good at doing carry over from game to game based on save data and trophies, so that way regardless of what ending you chose, you could go with Lord Shimura dying either way.
Allow me to elaborate: carrying over from the Kill ending, it just consists of referencing that Jin killed Shimura. But say you went with the Spare ending. You could just go with finding out that after Jin spared Shimura (something that, in accordance to the samurai honor code, would be seen as shameful), Lord Shimura committed seppuku to end his own life with honor. Something that you could also build a strong narrative off of as well. Shimura ending his own life, not just slavish adherence to the samurai code of honor, he morally and philosophically values so much, but also put a twist on it, where Jin discovers that Shimura also did it, to Spare Jin (and himself) from having to be the one leading the hunt for the Ghost. In short, Shimura sacrificed himself for honor but also as a selfless act of love for his nephew and adopted son.
Jin summed it up quite well when he said to his Uncle he is a slave to his honor. I choose to spare the Uncle, and I think the voice actor of Jin considers it the canon ending.
Same as Roger Clarke considers high honor ending in RDR2 canon.
I like the JP dub more. Uncle says, "you've thrown away your honor" Jin rebukes with "What IS honor?" It was his uncle that taught him that honor is saving the people so his uncle can't even rebuke back. So he's basically saying it's his uncle who threw away his honor... doing bad things to save Jin's hide.
But we all know Jin don't need saving, he's a dam player character. So it all just ends up with his uncle wasting his honor. Poor sod.
Man that part at the end when Jin n his uncle draw their swords n the music kicks in is peak cinema n hits you in the feels so powerful I tear up thinking about😔🔥💯#WhereMenCried
Ghost of Tsushima and Days Gone are my favorite PS4 exclusives
Hey….im replaying Days Gone right now👀
@@CynicGTA dude it kills me how Days Gone was treated and we will never get a sequel but yet we get horizon zero interest and all it's remakes and sequel and spinoffs and TLOU gets remade and remastered over and over . and now Sony is investing $250 million into a live service IP by Bend Studio instead of Days Gone 2🤦🏿♂️💀
@@ElPatron42069 days gone has some really interesting zombie lore. They could have continued with the secret ending and do something crazy with the game. but sony is dumb and always makes retarded decisions. i hate how people try to cover up the fact that tlou 2 was garbage story telling with character assassination.
@@ElPatron42069 Horizon isn't bad it's a fun game but I do think days gone was better and I'm upset that we aren't getting a sequel 😢
I think lord shimura is the only one with such a severe moral code when sensei ishikawa and lady masako saw him using stealth attacks and tricks they didn't seem to care and others even commented how jin starts acring more like his father
Cuz they both were already tainted . but sensei ishikawa ,did object . Masako was just angry , she was beyond sanity
14:12 " Terror is not the weapon of a Samurai"...
Kazumasa would disagree
Yeah with all the damage he did on Iki island I wouldn’t be surprised if he would have exterminated the whole population if he had needed to
I have my respect for people who cherishes honor. There is certain beauty in taking a risk of their own life to do things the right way, and Shimura came off like such person at first. But, two specific events made it clear that Shimura is in fact a dishonorable person.
First is when he orders his men to fix the bridge knowing he is sending his men to a meat-grinder. It would have been honorable for lord Shimura if he participated in the event himself, but he would rather send his troops so he can cherish his imaginary sense of honor.
Second is when he told Jin to frame Yuna for what Jin did. Shimura is doing exactly what he tells Jin not to do: taking the necessary measure however dirty it may be.
"In certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law. To pursue... natural justice. This is not vengeance. Revenge is not a valid motive, it's an emotional response. No, not vengeance. Punishment."
-Frank Castle
Lord Shimura is a politician and Jin like his father a warrior. On Iki Island Jin has a memory and admits to his father that he preferred the battlefield just like his father.
Khan was spot on calling out Shimura's weakness right at the beginning,where while all he's been doing is just following tradition and ONLY tradition instead of thinking out of the box for once and for himself,Khan actually bothered to explore other regions,educated himself and used said knowledge to his advantage and in the end,Jin only cemented that fact..The Fact that him being a slave to honor.
Lord Shimura really upsets me,He's genuinely a good but misguided character and i can understand his higher position in which you can't just do whatever you want but If only he just stops for one second,understands and saw that there are more things in life than just honor and tradition.Him being so single minded,chained and sheltered to such an sad,isolated but nonetheless an honorable life kinda makes him a victim.
Also Lord Shimura having his family damaged is symbolic of how people in his position not only conspire and plot against each other in deadly power games but also how they tend to oppress and even massacre people they consider beneath them, not batting an eye as families are wiped out. The fact that they often use people similar to the Ghost to carry out these atrocities is glaring.
There are people called Ronins. mercenaries . Its their job . Samurais cant do these dirty works ,as they are actually influencers . People look upto them and hear their stories and follow them .
now , kid will disobey their parents or elder because they heard a story where LORD SAKAI OPENLY DEFIED LORD SHIMURA. They will say , if he can , why cant we .
Jin created chaos and disorder in the society. Jin hasnt wrote a self help book ,where people can read his views . They will hear distored and exaggereted stories and will make their own version of story about him , and will spread chaos and fear everywhere.
@@YoualrightboiLord samurais (like Jin, Shimura and Adachi) are “influencers” like you said, but ordinary samurai soldiers (every samurai dressed in an ordinary armor) don’t have to follow the “honor” rules, but Shimura wanted to keep them in line too. For example to preserve the honour of the lords Shimura could have sent an ordinary samurai to poison the mongols’ food when liberating his castle, but he didn’t want to so Jin had to take the matter into his own hands and act
I really loved this dynamic between them unfold, even though I had the faintest of idea on how the ending would’ve been for Jin.
Jin giving up his beliefs and breaking everything that his clan, and uncle have essentially lived by for generations for essentially the better of Tsushima and its people from the opposition.
Then you have Shimura whose belief in living by the samurai code and his loyalty to the Shogun being absolute - would rather damn the lives of many because it’s “honourable” .
You gotta talk bout the side quest next some of the side quest was so sad and tragic. Those stories is really what made ghost of Tsushima so good not just the main story.
I started playing this, wat was I doing not playing this masterpiece sooner
Lord Shimura show the loyalty of Samurai to their code.
DAMN lord shimura really backhanded Jin with his mask and helmet still on
I loved the kill Lord Shimura ending.
So incredibly emotional and powerful and showed that Jin always had honor in him to his uncle. I always kept the mentality of not wanted to use Ghost tactics even on Hard mode and only really did it when the mission required me too.
But both endings could work quite well depending on how you view the story.
The iki dlc only cements jins actions even more, what a great game.
He was willing to frame an innocent woman to protect his family. I don’t want to hear about his honor. I’m kind of disappointed that Jin didn’t call him out for that.
Even The Tale of Lord Shimura ironically predicts Ryuzo's assumption. If Lord Shimura were to start a family, he would have to remove Jin first hand.
TLDR:
Careful what tactics you use, they'll be the standard practice after the conflict is done.
IN Depth:
Their honor code was similar to our modern rules of warfare, or any other time period. They are rules of combat meant to quite literally gamefy wareware and limit civilian casualties long term.
1-If you use A tactic because is easier, those that come after you will do the same for their own goals. You can't control the genie after its let out.
2-Guerilla warfare is based on guile and taking advantage of things, terrain, numbers, people, supplies etc.
A-Take for example the Samurai on the Island wouldn't have been able to defeat the Mongols, they didn't have the numbers. According to their code they fought and lost. The Shogun would have shown up in force, and defeat the Mongols. At a huge cost, but they would have.
After the conflict Order and stability would remain, as civilians still observe the code of conduct for that time (in the game).
B-Take for example the Ghost. Violating standard rules to save more lives now, but the repercussions long term meant civil war, use of poison as standard practice among enemies en mass.
-=
The Romans pacified Gaul/Modern day France but literally wiping out the majority of its population. Even by ancient standards quite harsh but acceptable.
-=
The US and other countries now a days. It would be absolutely easy to literally wipe out entire cities, deplete the local population when the US goes to any country for any resource needed at the time. Making it easier to save our own lives, and replace the local culture with one our choosing. We have the firepower and the technology to wage war at an ancient scale.
But if we do, we give the green light for any others to do so the same. So we don't, we focus on precision to limit collateral damage. We can't eliminate it but we do our best to minimize it. Now a days we purposely limit our own power for long term results.
-=
Rules of conduct during warfare are to maintain order after the conflict is done.
The game is the idea of self determination vs long term stability. The two are exclusive to each other.
Neither one are right or wrong, just depends on what you hold valuable. Life or stability and prosperity. Different cultures value both differently.
Great game, enjoy!
Love these Videos they're great!
I love this story, and the dynamic between Lord Shimura and Jin. But, I've noticed that people tend to dump on Lord Shimura for his rigidity and praise Jin for his flexibility, but I think the situation is a lot more complex than that. I think people tend to overlook that Lord Shimura was right in a lot of ways. Jin used poison as a weapon of mass destruction, and as Lord Shimura pointed out, the Mongols later gained that same weapon as a direct result of Jin's recklessness. Jin had a lot of good points too, but I think both parties are guilty not being more open to the other's merits. And that's the thing, I think that people forget that there is a lot of merit in Lord Shimura's point of view too. While Jin was focused on dealing with the immediate threats, Lord Shimura was considering the long term concequences of their actions. As Lord Shimura points out at the end of the game, the people became divided between those loyal to the Ghost and those loyal to the Shogun. Another civil uprising is now looming over Tsushima. We don't get to see what ultimately happens in the game, but it very well may be that Jin's decisions prove to be more costly to Tsushima than Lord Shimura's would have been.
I hope the part 2 will be called "Ghosts of Tsushima" where Jin will train others to be a ghost too. (that way maybe we'll have multiple playable characters, each which has unique storyline that ties with the main storyline)
This game teaches us flexibility in our thoughts...not be a rigid person who cant adapt himself/herself to a change...
We all have to get our hands dirty in order to wipe out the dirt.....i like this concept...
Be flexible and learn new stuffs in order to survive otherwise our ego will cause our extinction..
These videos are awesome 👌
My problem with shimura was that he tried replacing Jin's father, not as a adopted father but as a replacement father. Apparently kusamasa would condone Jin's new way of fighting, since yuriko said as much and he terrorized iki island. I think shimura was jealous of kusamasa of having a son and after he died he wanted to take Jin away from him in death
And Yuriko did say Shimura and Kazumasa argued a lot due to their different approaches towards battle. Kazumasa was more like Jin; bring the enemy to heel by any means necessary. Shimura was more of taking the traditional route.
I wonder how story would ended if Kazumasa was leader not Sjimura, dude was a beast.
Shimura’s problem: certain codes seldom if ever stand the test of time. Codes, Creeds and the like, are all guidelines on how to proceed with dealing with problems ranging from the usual day to day mundane, to Wartime Armageddon.
In the case of the Mongol invasion and his capture following the “Komoda Beach massacre”
He preached Bushido, which in of itself is fine, but When he was finally liberated from his captivity.
His First couple of mistakes or so was made
-summarized with these quotes “Your Enemy he’s not gonna play fair” Kilowag; Green Lantern 2007
-“You Learn more from defeats than you do from Victories” Sir Alex Ferguson
-and finally “Any Man can make Mistakes but only an Idiot persists in his error” Marcus Tullius Cicero
There is a legitimate reason Why and How the Mongol Empire’s expansion was so effective and Successful. They were in a word(s): Ruthless, Merciless. Specific reasons and means I will not commit to this comment.
Jin Sakai in that regard with the wisdom he gleaned from his supplemental teachers: Learned from his Failure.
While Jito Didn’t even try to.
His Final Mistake which effectively “Killed” his Family can be summarized by the following Quotes
-if it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it” Marcus Aurelius
-“Just because it is the most logical/Rational course of action, doesn’t make it the right way” (me)
-“It is possible to commit no Mistakes and still Lose. That is not a weakness. That is Life” Captain Jean Luc Picard Star Trek The Next Generation as portrayed by Sir Patrick Steward.
Jin Sakai had his Uncle Pegged
It is hinted that Shimura was married at one point. “You can still remarry. Start a new family.”
in the records it says his wife and child prematurely died
Just like any other parent, teaching their children the same thing that their parents taught them and most of the time they're right, but not in the case with Jin, if he continued to follow the old teachings from his uncle without needing to improvise, tsushima would fall to the mongols.
Pretty sure sparing shimura was confirmed to be canon
Honor doesn’t win wars nor does it save lives
Ghost of Tsushima does NOT need a sequel. I don't want one. It's best as it is
The clash of ideology of , The End justified the means vs The means are more important than the result .
I am convinced lethal mode is unbeatable. One of the most underrated games of all time, no question.
Lethal should be the main mode imo
Lethal mode is the best example of a well implemented hard mode in a video game.
Lord Shimura should adopt Zuko instead with the amount of times honor leaves their mouths
I honestly think that the canon ending is Shimura being spared because Jin’s story is about going against his samurai code and honour to go against the Mongals
Not even that, jin would never kill his family, it was specially clear after iki island.
@@gamEnjoyLP yh
He and Miyamoto Musashi have a lot in common when it comes to going against samurai tradition; That's definitely someone he should come across and learn from in the sequal,
The video game was awesome through-and-through one of the best I've seen and played thus far, (next to red dead redemption 2) keep up the good work sucker punch; As far as the character of jin sakai goes I do not consider him a hypocrite or a tratior to honor at all, He continued to show himself to be the most honorable, more so than his uncle due to the fact that he valued innocent lives more than the need to appease the rigid dogma of the bushido code for the sake of his uncle and the shogun, they were facing an enemy that was using their code against them to take over the land and the people and jin saw no other choice but to break away from that in order for his people and his country to survive the murderous onslaught of the mongols, Thus it forced him down a path that he was Initially resistant to but ultimately embraced for the good of everyone Which in turn has made him a beloved living legend among his people as well as tsushima's very own japanese zorro, He may have sacrificed and lost everything because of the harsh choices he was forced to make, but he also gained a whole lot more from his willingness to sacrifice and lose everything for the greater good of all and he for a video game character has my utmost respect for that.
His uncle however is the villain of his own story because he was willing to sacrifice an innocent woman like jin's friend yuna to the shogun and blame the poisoning of the mongols on her; something a man of honor should never do, so I personally don't care about lord shimura's pain, he deserves it and what better way for him to suffer more than to be spared and live with the humiliation of having his own nephew and "son" go on to become a better person and greater legend than him, the shogun and the entire class of the samurai. LONG LIVE THE GHOST!!! 🔥💯😉😁👍
The ghost of tsushima stuff is amaziny
Shimura: "You rack disciprine!"
Jin: "Nu-uh! I don't rack-a disciprine!"
Good videos man
Imagine if all the samurai fought a guerrilla war, instead of dying in the first battle.
Yes, what’s honor if you died in vain no one is gonna continue your legacy
Personally I would have joined lord shimura as his son, but to be remembered as the ghost, a hero, is a equal trade off from being Jin lord shimura, some times I wish we could have chosen to go down that path, the "bad" way of the ghost.
Yo what’s that tree mask at 15:43?
Hard asf 🔥
Bro about to make me
Replay the game again
If he was "flexible" the Shogun would've taken everything sooner.
18:08 hi 'the ghost' im dad
* laugh_track.mp3 *
I know it’s not canon, but I killed Shimura. Kind of as a way to show, even if Jin seemed too far gone, a reckless liability to the Shogun and Shimura, he still has it. The thing he started the whole ordeal for. Family. Honor one last wish, even if he betrayed Jin, he is still family.
That honor code is broken bro. Even khoton khan said samurais are easy to defeat because of their code.
Well Khan had luck because Kazumasa wasn't leader instead of Shimura
Just started playing this game again. Even at the end. While I prefer the White variant of the Ghost armor, I just can't bring myself to kill Shimura. Jin's final betrayal to the Samurai way and his full embrace into the Ghost.
I beat the game. Got a platinum, 10/10. But in the end I couldnt kill Shimura. I don't think Jin would do it, as per canon.
Agreed, while I've come to appreciate the Kill ending; I remain convinced that the Spare ending is the more fitting conclusion to Jin's character arc over the course of the game.
Nah, he would have honoured his uncle's wish. Walk away and leave an honourable man in shame is the selfish thing to do here, and his entire arc is about being selfless.
@@kaydens6964 nah
I would have chosen the kill ending if i hadn't play the dlc where Jin spares another major MAJOR person involved in his father's death to prove he is not like his father and his own person carving his own path. And that path deviates from being samurai or honorable but still having compassion. So to reject honor a final time and defy it, as well as sparing his only family member (after sparing the man who killed his father, at that) felt more in line with Jin's character for me.
@@Bloomingtide Even without the DLC I would of spared him. Taka died and alot of the Jitos people died. Killing his uncle for being a slave to honor isn't going to make amends for what he's done as the shogun has the final say. He already disbanded his clan and tarnished his name. Took his home and revoked his adoption from Shimura. Saving Tsushima was the path he chose and sacrificed everything to do it. Killing his uncle to redeem that tiny bit of honor isn't going to make him less a traitor. So in my mind I think. Send them. Send them all. They'll all die. One by one he'll only grow stronger and become smarter. Be crafty and wise with his tactics and protect his people by any means. He has work to do. For releasing the poison. All the ones misusing it and Killing royals and such.
the real villain here is the shogunate... who was afraid that the ghost may overthrow the throne
you shuld do an essay about detroit become human cherecters like Conor or Hank or whoever
I personally believe killing Shimura is the canon ending. Cause Jin didn't really want to be the Ghost, he "had" to be.
There is no honor in trying to kill the legend who saved his people ☝️ You should understand that Shimura. Even if his ways are different from your own. He did save everyone 😤
It’s a great mix, because neither are right.
Genius is knowing when to stop . And i m not just talking about Shimura but the ghost as well .
They needed both of them . If Shimura had not followed his honored path then he wouldnt have all this much power under his hand ,which even brought Shogun's reinforcement to help defeat the khan. Ghost couldnt have done it alone . Never . While Shimura might have achieved his goal with more sacrifice but he would have achieved his goal none the less.
You must respect me, for I am Jito! Cynic Sakai... the shogun has sent me to take your head, for you have no honor.
he is not a slave to Honer, he is a slave to the emperor
and would blindly follow what he is told without any question
Im pretty sure shimura did have a wife and a heir but they died prematurely (I think you can find this at a mongol record where khotun Khan talks about shimura)
It’s important to keep in mind that the game glorified Jin Sakai by exaggerating the honor code of Samurais. The strictest manner of Samurai were never close to being honor, but loyalty, respect, and servant for their master or Shogun.
Shimura is Solid Snake in japanese!
Question, if the iki island story happend before the end of the game at what point would it happend? I'd say it happends after jin gets his fathers armor (so the flashbacks makes sense) but before the fall of temuge (also i think the yarikawa rebelion happend at the same time as the sakai mission in iki, like kasumasa and lord adachi go to iki and yarikawa takes advantage of that to strike)
Dammit sucker punch give us 2 already,i so badly wanna see where jins story goes and how it (might) end
The Bushido code was compiled around the Edo period and basically romanticized the samurai way of life, much like the renaissance did for European knights. In reality, the samurais did what they needed to win, especially against Mongols.
It doesn't make sense to fight 20 foes at once because "honor".
Shimura is only a slave to stupid military decisions.
And Jin Sakai can be seen as rising despot. It's no wonder the Shogun saw him as a threat and branded him a traitor.
The most pragmatic thing is to have the Shogun and Jin meet to really ascertain their motives.
But that is too inconvinient to write as it will go against their messaging so they decided to make him a rogue.
The most pragmatic thing would be to have Jin clean up his own mess, since it is clear that he is still loyal to Tsushima and his uncle. Or was, until Shimura brought him to Sakai family cemetary to ease his concious, and tried to kill him just so he could keep his position of Shogun's @ss-kisser. And the funniest thing is, had Shimura succeded, his greatest fears would've become reality, because killing off the Ghost would've just made people who already lost their trust in the samurai to openly hate their protectors, and with people like Norio and Masako in Jin's allies, samurai on the entire island would've started choking on their blood.
@@OverLorD768 Jin kinda is in the process of cleaning his mess by liberating Tsushima and necked Khotun Khan.
Shimura had to stall all that.
Jin should've deleted Shimura mid-sentence by using smoke first then taking him out.
You forgot to mention that the men Shimura sent across the bridge were Yarikawa Samurai, justifying it by saying that there would now be fewer threats left after the Mongols were gone. These men who put their faith in Jin, who has to see his Uncle callously throw them under the bus because it's convenient for him. It's the most dishonorable thing I can imagine and fully shows the hypocrisy of Shimura's code.
Lol so about that sequel (something like 500 years later I believe? maybe 300?)
I still can't understand why he couldn't think for five seconds in front of his face that his code failed him and wouldn't work for him or his people and most certainly would have doomed his home and eventually all of Japan, I honestly can't think of anyone more incredible stupid than this man here who could have avoided all of this if he just stopped and and think.
you should think for a second as well
He was obligated to do what he was told by following the code. He wanted to put his heart in the right place but yeah. You're correct.
@urknot7293 Codes have been bent and broken before and the lives of others are more important than rules or traditions which are just as fallible as codes, as for honor it is a matter of perspective determined by the individual as it cannot be given it must be earned and gained yourself, even Shimura should have known all this as he clearly saw the Khan turn everything he believed in against him and he literally showed and told him that his current tactics won't work against him and in his own way said that when people go to war both sides are in the wrong and will whatever it takes to win and yet despite ALL of that Shimura still tried to use his current tactics to win the day which was completely insane in my opinion not to mention the total hypocrisy and callousness for the lives of those around him no different from the Khan and his own men as he sent his own men and people to their deaths which was clearly a trap as he should have picked up on right away and was more than willing to have Yuna be executed the very person who saved his own nephew from the break of death and aided both of them in fighting the Mongols and even helped break him out of captivity for God sake and THAT'S how he repays her?After that insult I was done with him and his honor crap I was all for the Ghost from that moment forward because after what he did putting his own code and honor above his own people and nephew that's not honor at all it was arrogance and hypocrisy and in the end his own suffering and sadness was all his own making even though his heart was in the right place he chose the easy thing over the right thing and losing his nephew forever was all HIS fault which makes me wander how someone like him become jito much less a samurai if he refused to change and see past himself and see the bigger picture? But those are just my thoughts, what are yours?
@@bradyburick1367 I think you're right and all I doing was agreeing with you. Didn't realize I needed a paragraph lmao
@urknot7293 Yeah just wanted to get my point across and point out all the facts even though I usually don't write comments that long which is a headache
There is no honor in stupidity.
Shimura was so annoying with his strict adherence to the samurai's code of honor. To me, in some ways he was no better than Khotun. He sent people to die needlessly. I was happy to keep him alive in the end. Just so he can continue to live in a world that he created with all the blood on his hands.
You realized from the opening scene of the game that the Mongols were not there to play nicely. They didn't give a damn about the samurai code of honor. A highly respected samurai died without honor because he thought he could just walk up to the Mongol leader and have a fair one-on-one with him. Only for him to be doused in oil, immolated, and have his head severed off.
Dude, feels so weird to see all the Ghost of Tsushima videos rising again, BTW whats Playstation C? All I have is a PS5
Does the game actually allow you to win the first battle? It would actually be really cool if it let you beat him and give a much shorter story once you finish and try again knowing how to fight.
I doubt this code even existed at that time, after all Bushido code was created in the Edo period in the 19th century. There's no way you can wage war with only frontal attacks.
It wasn’t out rage. It was strategical manuver.