Finnish Jews, Polish Special Forces, and MREs - WW2 - OOTF 32
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- Опубліковано 23 січ 2024
- How did Finland treat its Jews, and what did Finnish people know about the Holocaust? Who were the mysterious Polish Silent Unseen? And, what sort of rations did soldiers carry? Find out in this episode of Out of the Foxholes.
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Hosted by: Indy Neidell
Director: Astrid Deinhard
Producers: Astrid Deinhard and Spartacus Olsson
Executive Producers: Astrid Deinhard, Indy Neidell, Spartacus Olsson
Creative Producer: Marek Kamiński
Community Management: Ian Sowden
Written by: Gabrielle Pearce, James Newman
Research by: Gabrielle Pearce, James Newman
Map animations by: Daniel Weiss
Map research by: Sietse Kenter
Edited by: Miki Cackowski
Artwork and color grading by: Mikołaj Uchman
Sound design by: Marek Kamiński
Colorizations by:
Spartacus Olsson
Daniel Weiss
Mikołaj Uchman
Source literature list: bit.ly/SourcesWW2
Archive footage: Screenocean/Reuters - www.screenocean.com
Image sources:
IWM HU 55566, MH 4728, B 13213, NA 11770, B 6476, B 10867
National Archives of Finland
Bundesarchiv
Finna.fi 2296045
SA-Kuva 128807
Narodowe Archiwum Cyfrowe
Soundtracks from Epidemic Sound:
Brightarm Orchestra - On the Edge of Change
Alec Slayne - Conspiracy Inc.
Howard Harper-Barnes - London
Rannard Sillard - March Of The Brave 4
Hakan Eriksson - Epic Adventure Theme 3
Fabien Tell - Other Sides of Glory
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Any servicemen/women want to chime in with their experiences of military food?
Keep the questions coming; we give priority to questions from the Timeghost Army, so join up today! www.patreon.com/join/timeghosthistory
In the US Army, we have several different classes of field food. There are the MREs, which are individual rations and contain a variety of items, the UGREs which are single food items that can feed up to ten personnel with each package, the First Strike MREs which are individual rations that contain enough food equivalent to 3 MREs, and finally what we call the Hot A's which is hot food cooked in mobile kitchens and brought out to us in mermites. They all vary in their quality depending on who prepares them and who eats them, but there is one thing that is almost universal and has transcended two generations of US Soldiers, the Omelete MRE is one of the worst things ever conceived by human minds.
@@Red_Four oh yes, you better hope a latrine is nearby if you consume the Omlete MRE
Omelet one, that brings back nightmares lol
I'd love a crossover episode with Steve1989MREInfo
Chili Mac one was good unless you did the gas chamber that day in basic, it's guaranteed to come back up. The jambalaya was pretty good the rest were not really worth mentioning, but over all, they were better than those packaged crappy meals that were refered to as Jimmy Deans for whatever reason.
During WW2 Finland was anomalous: It was the only European country bordering the Soviet Union in 1939 which was still unoccupied by 1945. It was a country which sided with Germany, but in which native Jews and almost all refugees were safe from persecution. It was the only country that fought alongside Nazi Germany which maintained democracy throughout the war. It was in fact the only democracy in mainland Europe that remained so despite being an involved party in the war.
The censors here deleted my comment. The historical truth is not desired here. They want the Finns' whitewashing here. Let's see if we can outsmart the censorship.
Don't spread fairy tales!There was no ethnic cleansing by the Soviets in eastern Karelia and certainly not a genocide.
Sorry if the question for me was a bit long! With it being linked to the Holocaust, I wanted to avoid something that might oversimplify or downplay any part of it. Thanks for responding to it.
Finnish Jews were well aware of the Holocaust.
You don't need to explain your question, just ask it
Thank you for your question!
Good question and good answer too so cheers
A fantastically in-depth question with an equally thought provoking answer. You did us all a favor by asking!
Your answers on Finland, jews and the Holocaust are spot on.
I have studied Finnish military history for most of my life, including several books (in Finnish) touching this very subject. Your accuracy on this ‘local’ matter is remarkable and gives great credibility to your other work. In my eyes, anyway.
I salute you.
Thank you for the support!
- TG Community Ambassador
Unfortunately, the video uses the propaganda term "Finnish Continuation War". The term "the continuation war" is mendacious and serves to whitewash the Finns. This term is intended to give the impression that this was a self-defense war by the Finns and actually a continuation of the Winter War. BUT that was a new war, because the old one ended with the Moscow Peace Treaty of 12 March 1940. That wasnot a war of self-defense by the finns! Because it is a fact that the Soviets were not planning to attack Finland at the time in 1941! It was not a preventive attack by the Germans and Finns. Because the justification for a preventive attack requires the immediate danger of an attack. This imminent threat of war by Soviets existed neither against the Germans nor against the Finns. But the Finns were allied with the completely megalomaniac, mad, criminal, amoral and degenerated Nazi nation. This alliance with that absolute evil Nazi nation was completely unnecessary, the Finns could have remained neutral! The Soviets didn't occupy Finland in 1945. They were powerful enough to do that! No one would have protested if the ally of the Nazi nation was occupied. The Soviets did not occupy Finland. So this definitely wasn't a war of self-defense by the Finns! Unfortunately, the Soviets did not occupy the Finns in 1945, because the Finns certainly deserved this becuase of their alliance with the completely megalomaniac, mad, criminal, amoral and degenerated Nazi nation.
The Finns wanted to benefit from the expected German victory against the Soviet Union and additionally conquer more Soviet territory. Finland fought in World War II from 1941 as an ally of Germany because Finland wanted to conquer areas like Germans. The Finns wanted more than just to recapture the lost territories in the so-called Winter War which lasted 4 months and ended in 1940. The Finnish parliament declared that the aim of the war was to restore the areas lost during the winter war and to gain more areas in the east in order to create a "Greater Finland". President Ryti said this to the Finnish Parliament in 1941. To win, the Finns supported the Nazi nation in the criminal siege of Leningrad, which was part of the racist war of annihilation against the Slavic population of the Soviet Union. The Germans only wanted to conquer the city when most of the population had died. Many Jews also died in the siege. They were supposed to be exterminated like the Slavs. Because the siege was intended to exterminate the population of Leningrad. That's why 1 million people died in Leningrad largely by starvation. Mostly civilians. Which shows that the Finns didn't care that millions of civilians died in this war. Including Jews! Jews also died from this siege. So they did take part in the genocide of the Jews after all. For the siege was not only part of the genocides against the various Slavic nations of the Soviet Union, but also against the Jews. Not only Russians died in this criminal siege, but also Belarusians, Ukrainians and other Slavs, as well as Jews. Because the siege was part of the genocide against all Slavic nations of the Soviet Union and the Jews. Incidentally, it is clear to me that the Finns didn't care at all about Russian civilians or civilians from other nations in the besieged City.
The Finns also attacked and besieged Murmansk together with the Germans, which was definitely not a Finnish city either. That is why Great Britain declared war on the Finns and attacked Finnish troops with bombers too. Finland was so the enemy of liberators of Europe because Finland has allied itself with absolute evil. So they themselves became part of the absolute evil! It would have been terrible if the Nazi Nation had won together with the Finns the 2nd world war. This victory would have meant the destruction of the Soviet Union and various genocides against the Slavic peoples of the Soviet Union. All Jews were also murdered. But also elsewhere they would have exterminated the Slavs, for example in Poland, whereby they would also have exterminated certain non-Slavic nations. It's a fact that the attack of 1941 served to support the Germans in completely destroying the Soviet Union. The Finns also knew what the Germans were doing, because they were there at the siege of Leningrad. The genocides did not bother them at all and they willingly participated in them as an ally of the Nazi nation.
Wiki link titled East Karelian concentration camps. In the link one can then read the following. Quote: "East Karelian concentration camps were a set of concentration camps operated by the Finnish government in the areas of the Soviet Union occupied by the Finnish military administration during... These camps were organized by the armed forces supreme commander Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim. The mortality rate of civilians in the camps was high due to famine and disease...Significant numbers of Soviets died in this concentration camps. These were many women, children, and the elderly..." Quote end! Only there was not only the East Karelian concentration camps but also the criminal involvement in the siege of Leningrad and the support of the Nazi nation in general in the criminal war with the aim of winning the war together with the Nazi nation, which would have resulted that all Slavic nations would have been destroyed like the gypsies and Jews too. Yes, the Finns ultimately fought for the victory of the Nazi nation.
But of course all the Finns whitewashers would rather believe the fairy tales about the Finns supposedly defending themselves. Yes, they defended themselves together with the Nazis, according to these fairy tales!
@@GreatPolishWingedHussars the Continuation war started after all the major Finnish cities were bombed by the Soviets in summer 1941...
I don't even bother to respond all of your comments, but I just say If the Soviets thought that time Mannerheim was responsible of killing civilians why the Soviets did not blame him about the war crimes? instead they started to co-operate with him immediately after the war. The soviet prisoners made even painting to Mannerheim as a gratitude for saving their life. So, get your facts right, please.
@@eijakatriina Again the pathetic attempts to whitewash the Finns! As I stated above the term "the continuation war" is mendacious and serves to whitewash the Finns. This term is intended to give the impression that this was a self-defense war by the Finns and actually a continuation of the Winter War. BUT that was a new war, because the old one ended with the Moscow Peace Treaty of 12 March 1940.
The Soviets bombed the Finnish cities because German air raids against the Soviet Union were carried out from there. That was completely justified. This was not self-defense by the Germans and Finns in 1941, but a raid to conquer territories! Incidentally, the Finns actually attacked the Soviet Union together with the Germans. Because actually Finnish Army special forces started reconnaissance and sabotage missions against the Soviet Union on the Morning of June 22nd 1941 when the German Barbarossa raid against the Soviet Union started. Mannerheim authorized these operations but demanded that the men wore civilian clothes and that they were transported with German airplanes because Finland and USSR were not yet at war officially. Your lie that the Finns were defensive against the Soviets at first because they were told of Barbarossa only a week before the operation started is contradicted not only by these common attacks with the Germans, but also by other historical facts! The German-Finnish raid on the Soviet Union was planned long before! At the end of May 1941 a series of talks took place between the Finnish General Staff and the German General Staff. thereby granted the Germans gave their Finnish interlocutors insight into the Barbarossa plan for the raid on the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, as far as it was Finland concerned and presented their wishes. Those were actually verbal agreements for an alliance against the Soviets! The German build-up of troops in Finland started on June 5th. The transfer of the troops was codenamed "Blaufuchs" and was essentially completed on June 14 with the transfer of 30,600 soldiers.
During the visits of Joseph Veitjens as the German special representative for Finland in August 1940, it was agreed that the Germans were allowed to use Finnish territory for the rai against the Soviet Union and the Finns received extensive arms supplies from Germany. He visited Finland three times in 1940; from August 17th to 20th, from September 30th to October 2nd and from November 23rd to 25th.
The Finnish Major General Talvelas visited Berlin four times as emissary of the Finnish General Staff in the autumn of 1940. During these visits he negotiated arms deals and transit traffic issues and support for the Germans in the war against the Soviet Union and the common reorganization of Europe. Yes, the Finns really used this term. "Reorganization of Europe"! Finland was described by the Finns as a natural ally of Germany. Direct cooperation with Germany against the Soviet Union would be very desirable and positive. It was explained that in order to jointly prepare for war, the two general staffs of both nations would have to work together.
For it is a fact that Finland was the ally of the Germans. In fact a 100% ally of the Nazi nation. The Germans also raided the Soviet Union with troops positioned in Finland, clearly showing that Finland was an ally of the Germans in the raid of the Soviet Union. But for logistical reasons, the Germans did not position millions of ground troops in Finland, but launched the attack from Poland, where there were already millions of German soldiers. It would be absurd to try to transfer millions of German soldiers to Finland. In addition, there were already enough Finnish troops who supported the Germans in the advance to Leningrad. These Finnish troops also fulfilled their task and advanced to Leningrad. In addition, the Germans had not at all intended to take Leningrad with a loss-making attack. Because the Germans wanted to spare their troops and also to eradicate the population of Leningrad through a siege. The Finns then took part in this siege. So they participated in the criminal war and criminal siege. Shame on this nation that was without being forced the ally of the criminal Nazi Nation and participated in the crimes of this completely megalomaniac, mad, criminal, amoral and degenerated Nazi nation with the pure, insane, megalomaniac and utterly amoral barbarism!
The Germans also recruited men for the SS in Finland.
My dad served in the Pacific during WWII. He told me that the issued C-rations were really quite good, all things considered. He stated that in his opinion, it seemed 'trendy' for the troops to complain about the food, but as everyone had spilled out of the Great Depression and into a uniform, he knew damn good and well that many of those boys had never consistently eaten that well in their lives.
Yep. It turned out the government COULD afford to feed everyone during the depression, they just needed a war to make the American people willingly collectivist.
You're in the army now.
You'll always get your chow.
@@Fractured_UnityWell it's not like there was a famine during the great depression in the US unlike the collectivist USSR where millions starved. Collectivism rarely is the solution to any problem on larger scale although in small groups it can work quite well if you have committed high trust individuals
@@Fractured_Unity the US was already pulling itself out of the depression when it was attacked.
I served primarily in the 70’s and we were still being given C rations. They had a long shelf life. MREs were still a stateside experiment.
Soviet rations missed the massive amounts of US spam that was given as lend lease. My grandfather who was a Finnish vet told me it was always a good day when they managed to bag some US food as Finnish food was often quite random in quality.
It might just be included in the meat ration. 150 grams a day of meat would be about half a can of spam per day
According to Nikita Khrushchev US spam shipments were the only thing keeping the Red Army from mass starvation during the pivotal years of the war. US-supplied trucks also formed the backbone of Soviet logistics and made possible the massive, rapid advances during its key offensives. People greatly overlook how dependent the Red Army was on foreign aid.
A trend that began in the 1920s when US humanitarian shipments where what kept half the (not yet formed) USSR's peasants from dying of starvation and disease during the civil war.
I recall reading once that Western Europeans also developed a taste for spam, as the American army brought it with them as they moved eastward and liberated those countries which had been starving while under occupation.
@@davidsigalow7349 The same in Asia where it's still very popular. Spam, wonderful spam.
@@davidsigalow7349As a French, I learned the existence of spam when a French youtuber tried it, and it looked disgusting, the poor guy almost threw up (maybe he dramatised a bit)
I don't know for other countries, but this is not at all something that would be eaten in France.
There is a story (which has some evidence as surviving photos) of the Finnish prime minister Rengell and Himmler having a discussion on the Finnish jews while rowing in a Finnish lake. Himmler, who's purpose on the trip was to get Finns onboard on the liquidation solution of the jews, asked Rangell what Finland was going to do about the Jewish question. Rangell, rowing, answered the second most powerful man in the Third Reich "The jewish question? Finland doesn't have a jewish question." After that Himmler apparently thought that it was not worth antagonizing their (de facto) ally, and he'll deal with the Finnish jews after the war was won.
"Wir haben kaine Judenfrage". Rangell was a solid man. After the war he was convicted for being 'guilty of war', meaning he was among those politicians that had saved Finland from being annexed by the USSR. I have two letters that he wrote from the prison to my grandfather; they were friends since High School.
As well as the small Jewish complement to the Finnish armed forces, there were a handful of Finnish Muslims as well, mostly Tartar Muslims of families that migrated to Finland during the Russian period. They were allowed a field mosque. There is an anecdote that the Muslims were very popular among the other troops, because whenever there was pea soup with pork, the Muslims would pick out the pork slices and give them out to their friends.
So as every Thursday :)
And Roma as well.
And The one Black Man. He was an ambulance driver.
After The war he became horribly bitter since he couldnt become a bussdriver. One of hes daughters did.
@@Asahamana Yeah, I've read about him. The son of an African-American boxer and a German woman, who grew up in Finland when there weren't many black people around. IIRC he modeled for coffee commercials after the war.
@@Oxtocoatl13 yeah I read it from The News, but it didn't say that The motjer was a German just figured it was a native Finnish lady.
I had a family relative who was captured in the Philippines, survived the Bataan De/ath March and spent the entire war in Japanese POW camps. He stated that the Japanese were just as hungry as they were.
An Australian friend of mind had a dad and an uncle who fought on the Kokoda Trail. They told him one time a Japanese soldier surrendered to them because he was on the next day's menu! No lie! They resorted to cannibalism in Borneo, too, and various islands like Chichi Jima!
Also one aspect of interest: the Finnish city of Viipuri, which suffered most during the Russian attack, and was eventually lost, was the very center of Finland’s Jewish community. I personally knew some elderly people who spent their childhoods in Viipuri during the 1930s and they told me: ”among the kids in the streets you could every day hear Yiddish being spoken”. The loss of Viipuri was a major loss for the Jews and no wonder they wanted to defend it.
One of the defenders, Max Jakobson, later made a remarkable international political career and was even running to become the chief secretary of the United Nations in 1971.
Martti Ahtisaari, the great peace negotiator, Finnish president and Nobel peace prize winner, also was from Viipuri.
Viipuri was actually one of the most diverse cities in Finland when it was part of it.
@@kirby1225
Yes - but by 1930's Finnish standards only. By modern standards it was pretty Finnish.
In 1930 the Viipuri urban area had small Swedish- (2.9%), German- (0.6%) and russian-speaking (2.5%) minorities, as well as few Jews. Admittedly those minorities were often on average somewhat more visible and perhaps even more influential than the Finnish-speakers, who were still the overwhelming 93.6% majority. The countryside was practically 100% Finnish.
One other reason why losing Viipuri was sad is that apparently it was beautiful city.
@@viljanov Vaarilla on saari se vaarin saari on, Martti Ahtisaari sai Nobel palkinnon. Ai ai vaareja joita ei Nobel palkita, mutta meidän vaarilla Nobel pysti on.
When I was stationed with the US Air Force in West Germany during the 1980s, we were fed C-rations during our many week-long exercises and we found them quite good. They were even sold in the base commissary and my family liked them, too. When the MREs came out, a lot of people were getting sick on them due to the bags not being sealed very well, so we continued to favor eating the C-rations. When the C-rations finally ran out, I started to bring my own food during exercises because the MREs continued to make a guy sick here and there. To this day, in spite of 21 years in the USAF, I have never had an MRE.
From watching every Steve1989 video, storage makes a huge difference when it comes to retort pouches. You could open up an MRE from the 90's that's in perfect condition because it's been in an air-conditioned warehouse, and then one from the 2010s that's gone bad from sitting in someone's garage. I cracked one open from 2001 not too long ago and it was fine. Had a chocolate-covered oatmeal cookie!
I went into the army in ‘89 & found the 40-50 MRE’s I had during that time to be pretty good, depending on which entree you’d get (I recall chili-mac being very popular). The only negative I ever really associated with them was that they had a tendency to make me constipated/irregular. I assume that was due to all the preservatives & the general lack of fiber/veggies found in them. It wasn’t bad for a day or two, but if you had to live on them for a period longer than that, it could get problematic, lol.
@@goldenageofdinosaurs7192 On his blog, a US Navy veteran of the Vietnam War mentioned that before being assigned to duty in Vietnam, he and others were sent on an "escape and evasion" course supervised by US Marines. It basically consisted of being chased up and down for days by Marines, and subsisting on a few bites of an apple and a small amount of water. When they were finally allowed to eat properly, their stomachs had shrunk and they were unable to eat more than a few bites. The Navy man was then sent to Vietnamese-language training at Monterey, California before being assigned to a small Navy base at the extreme southern tip of Vietnam.
That's clutch...
@@stevekaczynski3793Isn't Monterey in Mexico?
In the US Army, we had C Rats with packs of 4 cigarettes up until the mid 1970s. The waxed cardboard of the British rations was good for burning to heat the meal. Good Luck, Rick
US K Ration boxes were waxed on the inside, at least according to the narrator in the William Wharton novel "A Midnight Clear". Wharton himself, real name Albert DuAime, served in the US 87th Infantry Division.
My sister's first husband served in the US Army in Viet Nam 1965-66. I remember him telling us that some of their rations were leftover from WW2
There's no delicate way for me to show my appreciation for the cannibalism joke about the IJA rations, but that was as well done as it could have been.
It's not like they're going to share their rations with the IJN
You left out the famous "100 grams" - the Soviet daily vodka ration.
Still better than German pervitin
Prior/during the WW2 Finland received and accepted 500 foreign Jews - 150 of them later chose to / were allowed to continue to other countries (the USA). Sweden refused.
When the war broke out, the foreign nationals were not allowed to stay in cities - unless they had a special reason to do so.
During the war ALL 15-64 year old people - men and women, Finns and foreigners alike - were expected to work. If they failed to employ themselves, the state employd them in work camps - which were nothing like the soviet/German forced labour camps.
Also some 40 foreign Jewish men were sent to a labour camp in Northern Finland, where they were employed in logging. Although for the Finns it was pretty standard work, for Central Europeans it probably felt as an ordeal.
Despite of the law, the foreign Jewish women were not required to work.
The study of 2019 was a great example of a successful russian hybrid operation, which managed to fool the Finnish government into working for the russian course. The Finnish "reds" were more than happy to join the "Nazi hunt" - once again. The authors of the "study" are known for their leftist views.
Some facts:
1. The handful of vague incidents once again mentioned also in the study ALL happened during 1941.
2. In 1941 only c. 400 Finns were at the front. C. 800 were still in training and c. 200 were still in Finland, only to arrive in Summer 1942.
Out of c. 1,400 Finnish Waffen-SS men 1,000 had ZERO opportunity to witness or take part in anything other than fighting.
3. The "evidence" of the possible Finnish war crimes consists of a couple of letters and hear-says. Based on them:
- some soldiers new something (what exactly?)
- few soldierswitnessed something (what exactly?)
- a couple of individuals took part in something (what exactly?)
One person wrote, that in one incident a couple of Jews had been shot. However he didn't mention
- who did the shooting
- who the Jews were
- why they were shot.
They might as well been NKVD officials committing sabotage.
Summa summarum - the "study" presented no new facts or any hard evidence. Despite of that the authors chose to make far-fetched assumptions and generalisations in order to tarnish the Finnish veterans.
Putin couldn't have been more satisfied!
Don't turn old war into new one.. 2 much propaganda stereotypes makes one deaf and blind to facts, fanatical red or waffen or climate activist - same all
Correct, people have to take this into consideration as well.
When my dad was on a ship in the Mediterranean (supply ship), the crew was so happy because of their Latvian cook. He mainly produced mediocre food, but he was a trained pastry chef. The crew went out of their way to get him enough sugar and butter to supplement their flour supply. As my dad said, evening meals were at best *meh*, but mornings were heavenly! 🙂
Is this pathetic calculation intended to whitewash the Finns? Ridiculous attempt to whitewash the Finns.
Murdered prisoners of war? The Nazis murdered more than 3 million Soviet prisoners of war.
Everything the Nazis did falls back on you. Because you allied yourself with the Nazis without any coercion or pressure.
It's been a while since we last seen a Out of the Foxholes episode, and I loved the question and answer on the topic of MREs, being a big fan of Steve1989MREInfo's MRE channel!
Lets get this out onto a tray
Nice!
Nice hiss...
Thanks for watching! - Jake
Since you mentioned Finnish Jews awarded with the Iron Cross, you really should have mentioned Leo Skurnik. A quote from Wikipedia:
"In September 1941, Skurnik organized the evacuation of a field hospital in heavy Soviet artillery shelling near Kiestinki, saving the lives of 600 wounded men, including Waffen-SS members. Skurnik split the evacuees into small formations and timed their departures between the artillery barrages. The German liaison headquarters, headed by General Waldemar Erfurth, proposed awarding the Iron Cross to Skurnik for the effort deemed heroic, a proposal which was accepted in Berlin. However, Skurnik refused to accept the award and reportedly stated to Lieutenant General Hjalmar Siilasvuo, who informed him of the decision, "My good friend, do you think I can take that kind of decoration? Tell your German colleagues that I wipe my arse with it!" Skurnik's rebuff caused the Germans to respond with open annoyance."
Oh this sounds like a Sabaton follow up song to "The General said NUTS!" in the making.
Absolutely deserves to be a Sabaton song!
I think open annoyance was what he intended to elicit.
Wikipedia pulled that quote from a 10-year-old article from The Telegraph, and makes no reference to its origin, making its accuracy dubious at best. I highly doubt such a specific quote would be preserved like that in the middle of a war.
@@_ArsNova While I understand your doubt the Germans have the reputation of recording everything so I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. At least more than I have of Boudica's speech.
Lovely video! If may I ask will you ever take up a topic of Polish Army on the East? The one that fought alongside Soviets on the eastern front
Is this pathetic calculation intended to whitewash the Finns? Ridiculous attempt to whitewash the Finns. Murdered prisoners of war? The Nazis murdered more than 3 million Soviet prisoners of war. Everything the Nazis did falls back on you. Because you allied yourself with the Nazis without any coercion or pressure.
Sorry! I try out what the censorship doesn't like. The comment is not directed at you! When I click on the comment it disappears and I cannot delete it.
Wow its been a while since you did ootf ! Happy to see it!
Love to hear that! Thank you for watching.
Of course jews in Finland got information from their friends and relatives living in Germany and other countries all the time during the 1930’s.
And in the end of the decade hundreds of Austrian jews fleed to Finland, it being one of the very few countries to accept jews to enter without any restrictions. Most of them continued to America or Palestine, but really about 200 Austrian jews lived as refugees throug the whole war in Finland, even though it was an allie of Germany.
Himmler really travelled twice to Finland just for this issue. Can only imagine what he felt when Finns subbornly denied.
When I did the basic training obstacle course for the US Air Force in 1983, we were treated to a lunch of military rations.
I forget what the issue/expirations dates were, or how it tasted. They were not the new MREs in plastic pouches.
I was disappointed that I had to turn in the small folding can-opener that came with it to open the cans. Some people hated them, but I liked it so much, I purchased one for myself for camping afterwards.
I never deployed to the field during my five years, so I never had to survive on any kind of military rations.
I am an army brat so I knew all about MCIs and the p-38 can opener. When I was in basic at Ft.Jackson (1976) few of the people in my company knew what the p-38 was used for. The p-38 is quite a useful tool. I was an avionics tech and we used them as screwdrivers, wire-strippers, cleaning fingernails, and many more I may have forgotten. I still have a p-38 from my basic training days.
In 1981 us Aussies in the Army Reserve had C rations from the vietnam era...
I sometimes walk past the building where the family of a deported Austrian Jewish doctor lived. It has a plaque on it for everybody to see and remember. No country is perfect and these horrors should not be forgotten.
My grandmother's family lived in some shtetl in Austria. She was in touch with them, by mail, until about 1941, when the letters stopped coming.
Thank you very much for the information about the Jews of Finaland. Before I retired I was the National Archivist of South Africa and I was told about the Jews fighting for Finland during WW2. I was gobsmacked! It was an amazing story. Thanks for the extra details.
Oh, now new victims are being invented to justify the pathetic alliance with the Nazis.
Additionally blather about brainwashing that is supposed to hide how mendacious the comment is.
Oh, now new victims are being invented! To justify the pathetic alliance with the Nazis.
Additionally blather about brainwashing that is supposed to hide how mendacious the claims are.
To justify the pathetic alliance with the Nazis nonsense is invented!
That tie was well camouflaged against Indy's shirt.
There's a good lecture on the subject, which covers the history of Jews in Finland: "Strangers in a Stranger Land: Finland's Jewish Soldiers in WWII". An interview with Finnish Jew who fought in the war: "Finnish Jews talk about fighting alongside Nazi Germany during WWII". On Finnish soldiers fighting in Waffen-SS: "History Hustle Finnish Waffen-SS Volunteers".
Thank you for you comment and the recommended books.
-TimeGhost Ambassador
To whomever edited this: That was really cute when you represented Indies little slip-up with the on screen figures.
The 2017 version of the Finnish war movie The Unknown Soldier shows a field synagogue in passing. A Finnish soldier passes by one as a service is being conducted.
The bravery of the Polish pilots in the Battle of Britain is well known in the UK as is the bravery of the Polish army . I heard that after D-Day German soldiers were scared of surrendering to the Polish lads. Lots of them stayed in the UK after the war as Poland was left in the hands of the Soviets
My American grandfather served from Market Garden through the end in a Sherman. After the war the only thing he ever complained about was the food. That's a hell of a thing to say considering he saw a few camps. I believe the K rations were the worst to him.
Eight Jews lived as refugees at my grandfathers small farm in the Finnish countryside a period at wartime. They were from Austria and one was from Czechoslovakia. Among them was Simon Grünzweig, who was nuclear physicist. His wife and daughter stayed in Austria and were taken to concentration camp. Grünzweig got two letters from the concentration camp. From the last letter it was quite clear, what will happen to them soon. His wife and daughter were killed there.
Great stuff like always Timeghost!
Thank you for watching!
Finland is one of the few european countries that has more jews today than in 1939. the amount is still only like few thousand so not much.
Actually Finland experienced more Jewish emigration to Israel than any other European country since the founding of Israel
@@viljanov more than any? before ww2 there was like 2000 jews in Finland and now there are 1500. Finland was allied with the axis but jews were still treated as equals.
@@viljanovSince 1948, approximately 400 Finnish Jews have immigrated to Israel.
The numbers involved are so small. Finland is an anomaly for European Jewish communities, for aliya, for the number of people with good military experience, for their level of integration and protection during WW2 but such a tiny example.
Great video team! I love this series and the channel so I was excited to see an OOTF in my feed when I woke up 😊
So glad you enjoyed it! We're working on pumping out these Foxhole videos more regularly :)
Great Video, Love the Channel.
The fact his background map shows Finland as not Axis country shows he indeed knows his Finnish war history.
If someone thinks this is mistake ask yourself this first, was any country on the following list part of Axis pact or did Axis forces annex any of these countries.
Argentina
Brazil
Chile
Peru
Greece
Cyprus
Djibouti
Egypt
Ethiopia
Eritrea
Kenya
Libya
Somalia
Somaliland
Sudan
If you answered yes to any of these you need to read your history again.
However Finland did have agreement with Axis forces to fight of Communist Soviets, as USSR was invading Finnish soil aiming to annex whole Finland. Which we all know ended up on humiliation of Soviet forces.
In Alaska, 1979. we still received C-Rations, some even had the small pack of cigarettes. We needed 2000 calories a meal.
MRE's were a pain, requiring more water, no more empty cans for booby traps.
C-ABN 4th 23rd Inf. 172nd LIB.
Excellent, I'm happy with another OOTF episode!
Hi Indy
Awesome questions and wonderful answers.
Thats why i love this series.
Thanks
Thank you for your comment and kind words!
-TimeGhost Ambassador (not Indy)
Awesome! I am glad that I am subscribed and received a notification. Rarely open them, but this is a jewel :)
Very interesting it opened up my appetite
7:00
I was at the celebration of the 80th anniversary of the famous "Kutschera" combat operation. My father was a Home Army soldier, a member of Kedyw unit.
Anniversary of the liquidation of the "Warsaw executioner" Franz Kutschera, ceremonies were held here in Warsaw on the 1 February, commemorating the soldiers of the special unit of the Kedyw of the Home Army Headquarters code-named "Pegaz". Flag posts were put up by scouts and members of reconstruction groups and schools named after Home Army heroes. After the Holy Mass, flowers and wreaths were laid at the monument commemorating this action.
Glory to the heroes
Best regards from Poland.
I'm trying here to see whether the censorship accepts certain sentences. So these comments are not directed at you. I will delete the comments too. But sometimes it is not possible to delete comments. Then just ignore the comments. Sorry for the disturbance.
To justify the pathetic alliance with the Nazi-nation nonsense is invented!
Additionally pathetic talk about brainwashing!
That is supposed to hide how mendacious the claims are.
Thanks Indy, Spartacus et al. Your excellent videos are always a mix of scholarly work and entertainment. Greetings from the emerald Isle
Greetings from Germany, Sweden, Poland, and the rest of the world from the TimeGhost team!
Thanks for your comment and your kind words.
-TimeGhost Ambassador
My friends father was an agent of Cicho Ciemny force, trained in Britain, operating in General Governorate with connections in occupied France. What he went through after Soviet 'liberation' of Poland is story which would take half of a day to write. In short, he spent years in prison being interigated by NKWD and it's Polish communist counterpart. Even though he wasn't convicted by post war judeo-communist 'bezpieka' for his actions, he had 'the angels' following him 24/7 for many, many years to come. Also he was forbidden from practicing certain public jobs and until his death he was basically considered a spy and enemy of the communist state.
Probably the one of best examples of what happened to many special agents of the Polish Army and Polish Government in London, is a story of captain Witold Pilecki, executed in Warsaw's prison in 1947.
I'd love to see an episode just about rations through the years of the war
Steve1989 has excellent MRE reviews including WW2 time
Any chance we could get a special episode about Stavka? How big was it? Who worked there? Thanks.
You realise you're going to be a part of a Japanese ration pack with asking questions here? 🙃
As long as they don't feed me to the crocodiles.
@@davidsigalow7349good man, a true historian doesn’t care. Just as long as the question is answered. Which I agree it should be.
Actual Stavka members were Stalin and a few marshals, generals and leading members of the government. However they had large numbers of aides and support staff. Postwar Soviet films tend to depict Stalin and leading members of Stavka poring over map tables or reading communications from the front, sometimes in the form of long thin strips of paper, perhaps the plaintext rendering of messages in Morse code or cipher.
Whereas the Tsarist era Stavka in WW1 was generally based relatively close to the front, the Soviet version mainly stayed in Moscow although field commanders who were part of Stavka like Zhukov spent the bulk of their time near the front. The Soviets considered that Nicholas II lost his grip on the domestic situation because he was too far from Petrograd while trying to operate Stavka, and Stalin was not going to make a similar mistake.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/330-PSA-126-65_%28APS-65-173%29_%2822527074517%29.jpg The ticker tape message announcing D-Day, shown by a US NCO. Soviet films tend to show Stalin, Vasilevsky or others at Stavka reading similar bits of tape.
Nice video introduced 👌
Finnish Jews? I had no idea. Fascinating!
There was an Orthodox community in Helsinki that still exists. Around 300 Finnish Jews served between the Winter and Contination Wars.
there were small amounts of Jewish People in Scandinavia, first time I have heard of the Finnish response.... I know from occupied Norway there are bad and good things that were done. I personally knew a lady who hid and helped transfer not only resistance members but also Jewish people...In Denmark fishermen helped evacuate some I don't remember the whole story and I also heard a story that the Danish King who was captured chose to wear the yellow star when his Jewish countrymen were ordered to wear one early on in the war
Finland of then is quite literally the same Finland of Today. Finland has not had a history of antisemitism, and was in WW2 a multi party democracy.
Also alongside the Finnish Jewish population there were also Finnish Tatars Muslims and Finnish Communists that fought for Finland during the wars. (In fact the war ended the remaining tensions between Finnish Reds and Whites.)
The Finnish Jewish community has never been large. During the Swedish period, Jewish settlement anywhere in the kingdom was forbidden, and this law stayed on the books for much of the Russian period. Finland was a late addition to the Pale of Settlement (the part of Western Russia where Jews were legally allowed to reside). Upon independence, Jews were immediately granted full citizenship alongside everyone else, and the community is still small but vibrant. One of the very few places in Eastern Europe where the Jewish community was not annihilated.
@@lembitmoislane. There was darker side to the Finnish democracy of the 40s as well. There was for instance the project mentioned i the video where Jewish refugees were sent to labor camps. The individuals who conspired to deport the 8 Jews mentioned were afterwards completely unapologetic and used anti-semitic slurs in their interrogations.
Similar camps were briefly opened for Finnish Roma people and, of course, in occupied Karelia much of the local population was interned. Also while most Finns regardless of political leanings joined the war effort, some far left activists were likewise sent to labor camps because they weren't trusted. I have a great uncle who was interned during the war because he worked at a working class theater in Viipuri. Then there is the execution of Arndt Pekurinen, which was frankly a blatant murder by the state. War brings out the worst in any society, even the ones that by comparison to others seem free and democratic.
GREAT PRESENTATION !
shout out to our last remaining WW-II vet, George Mullins. He turned 99 tears old today. He served in the 327th Glider Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne, landed in Normandy, landed in a glider at Market Garden, Battle of the Bulge. Went up to the Eagles Nest at occupation. In his memoir, Foxhole, was published. It's a great story.
Thanks for your comment and the book recommendation.
-TimeGhost Ambassador
My dad served in the ETO and said some of the meat rations were produced by a company that also made dog food. All complaints about food ended when they came across recently liberated concentration camp prisoners. The GIs wanted to give the skeletal survivors food but were ordered not to because the rich food would have made them even sicker.
Re-feeding syndrome. It could kill.
Thank you for your service!
It can't be underestimated how you guys are willing to research answers to what appear to be mundane questions about rations.I then also learned a lot about the situation of the Jews in Finland.
I'm trying here to see whether the censorship accepts certain sentences. So these comments are not directed at you. I will delete the comments too. But sometimes it is not possible to delete comments. Then just ignore the comments. Sorry for the disturbance.
To justify the pathetic alliance with the Nazi-nation nonsense is invented!
Additionally pathetic talk about brainwashing!
Additionally pathetic talk about brainwashing! That is supposed to hide how mendacious the claims are.
To justify the pathetic alliance with the Germans nonsense is invented! Victims that never existed!
Right after the end of World War II, military doctors from the victorious armies meet at a health conference. During a cigarette break, an American doctor boasts to his colleague from the USSR: "We have such balanced meals in our army that we can provide each soldier with over 10,000 calories a day." After counting in his head for a while, the Soviet doctor replies: "There's no way for a man to eat two buckets of potatoes a day."
The idea that Soviets only ate potatoes was a Western joke as late as the 1980s.
Trying (post-)Soviet military macaroni is a great way to ensure you will never want to taste any kind of pasta again.
Imagine short slimy pale-yellow tubes of dough soaked with thin gravy; if the food situation is good, a grey overboiled sinewy meat called goulash is added.
The Soviets apparently also liked lend-leased canned meat, especially when the unfamiliar Spam was replaced with Tushonka stewed meat cooked in the US to Russian recipers.
One interesting tidbit about Soviet food logistics can be read in the famous poem "Vasily Terkin" that follows a common Soviet soldier:
"There is an old law of war:
On retreat, you eat more than enough,
On defense, it depends,
On the offensive, you go on an empty stomach"
Another fantastic episode
Thank you for your kind words.
-TimeGhost Ambassador
Thank you for the lesson.
Thanks for watching.
Dude, you nailed Cichociemni but apologise for Niewadi? :D
I recall reading an account of a German soldier near the end of the war receiving a kilo of butter as his rations for a week. He related that all the soldiers combined their rations and ended up with decent meals, as one man would have bread, another butter, etc.
we really need a special with SteveMRE
Often, a foxhole was the only soldiers' field kitchen but you know what? I feel like tasting the different soldiers' meals listed here! Cheers Indy (with a soldier's beer)! Let's head to the next appetizing new episode of WWTwo
As a Newfoundlander, it’s always amazing to me to see shoutouts to and mentions of Newfoundland in the wild.
I’m happy you guys covered Japanese rations. You don’t hear about them very often.
Its a bit of a shame we didn’t hear about “Mussolini’s Ass” though, even if it’s been covered before.
The Japanese often ate rice balls with pickled plums on the inside. The rice was thought to induce constipation and the pickled plums were supposed to alleviate this.
Mussolini's what?
@@theonewhoplays3819 “Mussolini’s Ass” is an English equivalent of what the Italian called their meat rations. They were stamped A M on top which gave rise to the name. The Germans called them “Old Man” for the same reason.
@@prestongarvey7745 thanks lol
@@theonewhoplays3819 no problem
Finn here, offering my input as a history hobbyist:
Many jews gladly took arms against Soviet Union, as they were mostly from richer families and they knew that if they would end up under Soviet rule, they could expect... ahem... less than ideal living conditions and life expectancy due to their economical class.
Kind of being between in a rock and a hard place; in the west, there is a superpower which wants to remove you because you happened to be born in wrong race. In the east, there is a superpower which wants to remove you because you happened to be born in wrong class.
I’ve met a Finnish Jew whose grandfather fought with the SS against the Red Army. His take: yes it was tragic what happened outside Finland but to all Finns at the time, the Red Army was an existential threat and that was all they needed to know about
It was really interesting to hear what various soldiers ate in WWII.
Honestly, an entire episode dedicated only to rations would be fascinating
Glad you enjoyed that segment, big thank you too James Foss for the question. I'll pass the suggestion along!
- Jake
I missed the C rats. They were discontinued before I joined the army in '84. We used the mess kits until '85 when they were replaced by paper plates.
My father...U.S. Army, Pacific theatre, said that the worst C-ration was the chili con carne. He said it was pretty much universally loathed, and you couldnt find anyone that would trade for it.
Indy you are the GOAT
Finnish jew Major Leo Skurnik was one of the recipients of the iron cross. He turned it down of course and told the general who informed Skurnik, that he can tell Germans that he wipes his ass with this sorts of medals.
I would like to point out that the big map in the background is lacking the modern day area of Kaliningrad
There is a channel that goes over the field rations with examples of the foods.
Iirc the Finnish Volunteer Battalion is credited with the most eastward point of advance during Barbarossa. Areas around Maikop and near Groznyi.
Been a long time since Out of The Foxholes video
Marshal Mannerheim said that in Finland, you are a Finn first, then, whatever else you may be...
Currently reading a book on the red army by jean lopez and it has a testimony of a finnish soldier fighting during both the winter and continuation war
No, definitely tell people to leave comments! Its good for engagement!
Very good , nice to hear this , I am a retired , also es uk army individual living just within my means.
Erbswurst was still in production and popular among hikers and mountaineers until a few years ago. Had it a few times back in the boy scouts (early '90s) and it was actually pretty damn tasty. I imagine you'd get sick of it after a week or two of nothing else but back then we thought of it as something to genuinely look forward to :D.
I saw some in a German supermarket in 2018.
I made some homemade erbswurst a couple of winters ago. Best pea soup I’ve ever had.
A little comment on the SS- Ration: As many members of the 12th SS- Division "Hitlerjugend" were below the age of 18, they received an extra candy ration instead of cigarettes.
In late 1944 the german army also introduced a ration set inspired by the US K- Ration and the british 24- hour ration, meant to be issued to assault and frontline troops. But I'm not sure whether that ration made it to widestread use until the wars' end.
The K- Ration also contained very little vitamins and was only meant to be eaten for a couple of days in a row.
This video was so nostalgic, for some reason. Really felt like I was watching one of those OOTF from 1940 or 1941. I think... there's a chance... we might be aging.
There was one mistake. The Russian Forces also had a Vodka ration. in 1940 on the Finnish front, it was 100 Grams of Vodka per day. I am not sure how that carried through the rest of the war. But at least in Finland in 1940 they had that as well.
The warning at the end left me traumatized. Some of you seem to have serious issues with violence. Which may not be too surprising after years of covering WW2. 😆
The questions in this episode (and there answers) were paritcularly interesting and informative! Thanks!
Finland kinda got the shaft during ww2
Like the Rangell said to Himmler: "Wir haben keine Judenfrage.".
Maybe it’s just me, but it’s kinda fascinating finding out what the rank and file ate by nation and front.
I remember reading something about WW1 rations for the British Army... 'The rations included large amounts of cheese and eggs, the stopping effects of which were countered by the incessant shellfire...'
My grandad was an officer in the Imperial Japanese Army. He said they got enough food for three weeks and never got any more. He said you can eat whatever the monkeys eat and that you'd be surprised at what you can eat.
Thanks for sharing that, I think Japanese rations get overlooked at times,so it's always interesting to hear about them.
-TimeGhost Ambassador
I'd like to see more ootf it looks like they are less common then they used to be.
My grandfather was considered "disappeared" during the battle of the bulge. I am happy to say I managed to acquire his service number and applied for his service record. With a little bit of time, I will be closer to the how and when he disappeared. Pray after 20 years of wondering. Hopefully, I will hear the truth about his existence.
This is one of your best, Indy. But I wonder, what did the Italians eat?
I heard that the Italians in the North African theatre of war had a welcoming supply of 2 litres of red wine, as part of their rations, which helped to overcome digestive issues on campaign
So my question at the Times ghost army are not guaranteed?
Just finding out the truth though.
But seeing other questions and answers are delightful for my curiosity anyway :)
I love this channel and wish to see till the end :D
Keep up your work team! 😊
I read that the Japanese that marched/biked down Malaya to Singapore carried rice balls (don’t know what held them together), dried fish and dried seaweed. Of course in the jungle, all sorts of fruit and some vegetables were available.
Basic Japanese rations. Rice balls were a common ration of the Viet Cong/NVA in the Vietnam War, often filled with raisins. Some US troops began to eat them as well. The consistency seems to have made them fairly resistant to crumbling. Korean troops (both sides) and the Chinese also seem to have eaten barley balls in the Korean War, as well as rice.
A Japanese lieutenant who fought in Burma said in an interview in "The World At War" (1973) that the Japanese would watch to see what monkeys ate, on the grounds that their digestive systems were much like human ones and what a monkey ate, a human could as well. The Japanese also killed and ate monkeys, and a good curry could be made out of them, according to the lieutenant.
@@stevekaczynski3793 Thanks so much for your detailed answer! I’m waiting for the World at War to get cleaned up and rereleased! I still find it one of the best ever series on WWII because of the interviews of actual participants and of course the wonderful narration by Lord Laurence Olivier.
Smoking cigarettes were also used in larger amounts as a First Aid treatment to slow down loss of blood from inaccessable wounds while soldiers were being transported to field hospitals or waiting for treatment after triage. The nicotine in tobacco constricted tiny blood vessels and slowed bleeding. Bottled beer was also vital on many jungle islands in the Pacific where safe water supplies were basically nonexistent in areas undergoing very active combat .
It is interesting that there's so much English on Japanese packaging, even during the war. Suntory Wisky, Cider, some sort of candy drops. In many other countries, nationalist fervor would have forced a relabling or renaming - looking at you, Windsors and Freedom Fries, but the Japanese have a very different way of thinking here.
After the period of staunch isolationism Japan was flooded by information, food, goods ect. from the outside world and made its roots as part of the national culture, something that persists to this day. It resulted in some very interesting products that seem almost indistinguishable from something you'd see in America until you look a little closer.
The Japanese had an English-language periodical they issued during the war, partly for propaganda in places like Singapore where some people read English, partly to teach English to Japanese. It was of course propagandistic - captured American aviators on the Doolittle mission were "punished with heavy penalties", it said.
@@plushie946 Yes, Japanized food is a glorious to behold, with some very, very Japanese foods being considered Western, originally (I'm looking at you, okonomyaki). Some even starting to spread worldwide, like Japanese curry.
Also, I haven't tried Suntory, but it is reportedly a very good Scotch wiskey.
Suntory whiskey is very good, and so is the German-style beer brewed in Japan. The Tokyo HQ of Ashai Brewing is even designed to look like a glass of lager beer - golden, with the upper floors being white (like foam).
@@Alex.HFA1 Never tried Suntory, happy to accept it's a nice whisky but it's not Scotch, simply because of where it's made.
there is a good video about a jewish-american author who tells the story about the finnish jews in his book, it's very interesting to listen to but takes more than hour.
Brilliant!!!
Thank you!
Someday Indy shall return to his Chair of Infinite Knowledge.
Been a while since OOTFH, I recently started to make history and alternate history videos and would really appreciate any advice/feedback you have to offer. Thank you, and keep up the great work WW2 team!
We're checking our your channel! Email Jake@timeghost.tv and let him know if there's a way we could help :)
@@WorldWarTwo 👍