I think one element to this is that when talented/creative people are young and have no competition, they receive a lot of compliments from family and friends of family. They then move to school and there might be a few creative children but because the majority aren't, the competition factor doesn't build. It's only when these creatives are pushed together at college and university that they finally get an opportunity to measure themselves first hand and realise just how big the talent gap can be thus resulting in jealous behaviour. This was the case when I went through the education system but I have no idea how social media fits into this now.
I was in a progressive metal band with a couple guys I thought were good friends and when I brought in some ideas they would always tell me this or that should be a certain way. All the while they never would bring in ideas to the band, and it was only me writing. Those guys still play together to this day, and they still play a song I 100% wrote. I am 46 years old now, and I haven't played guitar in nearly 7 years. I have a chronic illness and cannot keep up anymore. That may not have any meaning to the context of this video, but I just wanted to express it. Love your channel.
In my experience with jealous people, they can have it all and still somehow find a way or reason to be nasty. If I can guess, they see your potential..?
I’ve consistently noticed over the years that the role of a charismatic singer/guitarist/frontman is particularly envied and it brings out a lot of resentment and defensiveness in others who secretly wish they could enjoy that role. Curious if anyone else has observed this
"Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to someone else today"- Jordan Peterson. Really appreciate the video. Currently in final year of an arts degree, and my friends and I are guilty of envy, but it stops there- I would never sink to bad mouthing people or being mean because I know it's me who needs to be better- instead I ask for advice. Been having a really bad case of artist depression lately. I know my current work is mediocre at best and I know that if I really put as much effort into projects as I possibly could and REALLY tried hard then I could go back to making great work like I used to but it's been so hard not succumbing to depression and fear and losing motivation.
This behavior is not restricted to artists alone: some of my classmates began envying me when my grades started rising above all others in class. I'm not sure this happens because there's too much competition, people just want success without work, I guess.
This is exactly the thing that turns me off about the elite scene in SFF, particularly the short story markets. I'm writing for that MTG player in Omaha.
I would see people try to do this in the bluegrass scene I was involved in 20 years ago. It never came off well; people with a negative attitude (often brought from other music scenes) would just turn people off.
Most of us have or had these thoughts in our minds, but the less time you spend thinking about these things the better, because you can not do anything about other people beeing more successful than you or not. The only thing you can do is continue enjoy what you are doing or quit! These negative thoughts are in the way of the true joy of music (and other things in life).
That is one of the reasons I left the film industry. Once you do something good or out of the box, people in the industry can't hide their jealousy to the point that it became extremely toxic.
Jealousy and Envy are forever whispering in our ears. They have to consciously be avoided because they are terrible for you, I've certainly felt them, I don't think it is just the arts.
You see this in Irish sessiun groups- especially among fiddle players! It's almost like they turn it into a competition! I was in a band, and my lead female singer and my lead male singer, allied- to discourage me from singing...so I didnt unless it was in a chorus... THEY wanted the spotlight! When we finally broke up, I became the lead... and NOW I know why they behaved like they did! Cuz I'm VERY good! I am now a soloist, and have found out I have a 2+ Octave range- I can belt out Queen, or Elvis. In tune! And blow the audience away... Dont EVER fall prey to people like this! Do your own thing, and strive for exceptionalism!
Jealousy and envy may be a big part of one upping somebody as an artist, but I don’t think the barometer should be measuring how well someone reacts to another artist’s work. I went to school for Graphic Design. I’ve gone to art shows and watched artists making paintings or creating something in their booths at fairs. One time I made a suggest about adding something to a painting, but I don’t know if the artist did anything with my suggestion. We had a lovely conversation about going to art school though.
I've seen a lot of hamstringing done by musicians in my scene. Subtle things. "I'll be your guitar player" -- and then laying down crap to ruin the studio take (a blues lick on my synth-pop track?). Or showing up to a jam, and not turning the amp up, so their parts can't be copied. Or offering to produce your album, and then your mixes are way way way less refined than their own mixes. Why does the snare sound like a cardboard box in my mix...we used the same drum set. It all makes sense when you realize that he thinks you're The Competition.
I struggled with jealousy when I was starting to play drums, but already at the end of my teenage years I had gotten over myself and if someone was better and/or more successful than me I didn't care. I've long been a strong believer in comparing my current skill (in anything, not only drums) only to my past self. I can look at other people that are better than me for inspiration on what to learn next, but in terms of progress or success I am happy as long as I'm going forward.
I thought CG was just the idea of producing quality comics through alternative paths. Is it a particular community where people know each other? Do you have to enter it? Cause I thought I was part of CG and all I do is publish my little webcomic to hone my skills until I can draw at least decently enough to crowdfund a proper comic. Anyway, if CG is like that... I'll just strive towards the idea. I like it when it is about quality comics to stick it to the establishment.
Comicsgate was semi successful in convincing people that comicsgate meant indie comics. It started as consumers talking about marvel and DC, then a bunch of pros entered into it and took over the hashtag, and now it has devolved into a small click of angry nerds. Independent publishing of comics was around before, and will be around after, hopefully with fewer drama streams and more products shipping on time.
You're spot on. I was a talented shit head in my teens it took seeing students less talented than me get excellent grades while barely scraped by with 50% attendance to realise what an ego I had. A kid who i still keep in touch with now having reformed my attitude was the real awakening for me. He lived 3 hours away by train so he spent 6 hours a day 4 days per week on the train drawing and working. I lived 10 minutes away and did the absolute bare minimum. My tutor that year had taught me previously and said I should take the course as it would be an easy A for me, in the end I was lucky to get a C with how bad my work ethic was. In retrospect I needed my ego checking.
While I agree with you on this concept, Rob Liefeld has put out some bad art to the point where it can be cataloged; in fact, it has, by many wannabe comic book writers. One critic I can think of that matches your concept of 'those who cannot create instead put down' is a critic by the name of Linkara, who was a very vocal critic of Liefeld's during the early 2000s. He has his own webcomic titled 'Lightbringer,' which showcases drawing quality comparable to what I'm sure Liefeld put out when he was 10. I think what a lot of people are missing is that Liefeld's productivity dwarfs most of his peers. He may not always hit a home run, but the man is always swinging, and for that he should be recognized and respected. It's extremely difficult to be 'inspired' on the regular, and Liefeld must have the equivalent of a quantum warp core for his motivation. His comics dominated the 90s, and I think a lot of pessimism sneaks in with the legitimate criticism.
I've done several lectures featuring Rob's art and the problems with it (in short, he tries to duplicate the style of comics without knowing illustration techniques first), but 90%+ of the people who criticize him are artists who are not better than him. Rob is a professional, like him or hate him.
When I was studying art in college we had one professor who would get very jealous if her students were better artists than her. Not to the point of giving out bad grades, but constantly criticizing or making passive aggressive remarks about that student to the rest of the class, etc. I noticed this when I was going through and my brother noticed it also when he took classes with her a few years later. In fact I think my brother got the worst of it, since he has always had almost prodigious levels of art skills going all the way back to when he was about 5.
Very good video David. This really puts things in perspective regarding jealousy of others when it comes to making anything, be it music, comics, books or movies. There will always be someone who’s jealous of somebody else for whatever reason.
interesting… there's been plenty of times I felt like somebody inferior to me got more success and recognition, but at the same time I could also trace my failure to weaknesses in the works I presented. I knew I wasn't at the top of my game, that I could do better. I never thought I was cheated out of success. and when somebody was clearly superior to me, I could see that too.
Well, I've had people put me down, but I don't think that pertained to them being jealous of me, they were jealous of someone else and needed to take it out on someone. I find it pitiful. Maybe jealously is something all people go through and need to learn to overcome it. I don't think I've ever sniped at people, I rather try and lift them up or give words of encouragement.
I believe there are two kinds of people: those who put others down to raise themselves up by comparison, and those who bring themselves up by pulling others up with them.
Many of the toxic musicians I have met have been the 'music nerds'. They obsess over theory and tone, and since most of them are hacks or just okay players, they overcompensate for it with knowledge of technical minutiae
But in all seriousness, I've always had relatively good friendships with other musicians. When I put out demos, they seem to like them, and when they write stuff, I tell them their stuff is cool. I do get jealous of incredibly successful musicians (IE Billie Eilish), but that jealousy changes into a "Wait a minute! What are they doing that makes their music so good or catchy or how do they use that melody?" EDIT: I would strongly suggest using jealousy not for gossip, but for musical deconstructions. I learned vocal melodies and harmonies from listening to pop singers and translated that to guitar.
I find the rise in toxicity of the YA field to correlate with the rise of older people to be reading it. I don't know if it's the cause but I don't think it helped.
This is why I don't watch stuff like Red Letter Media or YourMovieSucks. That whole genre of "harsh" criticism is just a bunch of aspiring filmmakers that want to demolish stuff just to convince themselves they could do better. At university, there were people that loved to watch this type of content and carried out the harsh criticism to all movies, be them made by Hollywood or co-students. The unifying factor was that the work of these people was almost always the worst in the class.
@@DVSPress To be fair, it's hard to be positive about any new movies. Anyway, any chance for a video on Gene Wolfe, more specifically, the Book of the New Sun? Do you have any opinions on those? Sorry if it was mentioned before, I'm a bit new to the channel, I subscribed after watching that Last of Us 2 video.
I've found there's a big split amoung artists. Many who are in comics are repulsive goofs that are extremely "beta" miserable creeps. Those who work in games or film as concept artists / modellers / matte painters / board artists, etc are generally cool and far more talented as a whole. It's like in film - the wannabe starbucks screenwriter zilch is a giant douche with a massive ego - meanwhile, a guy like Tom Cruise remembers the name of every grip on set and is the nicest guy you could imagine. The higher people are on the social hierarchy ladder, generally - the cooler they are. Almost every loser "comic artist" failure I've met is an unlikable knob with an ego 10x the size of genuine a-list movie stars. As an artist - I avoid most artists.
also, since i am into Flamenco myself, the roots aren't purely gypsy, rather multiple, and the more I learn about hidden history, the more I realize that it is very IndoEuropean. Explains a lot our love for flamenco.
I didn't have that intense experience like you had David, in part because I didn't work prolifically like you as a student. One thing I did see in the academics was this constant disparaging of highly successful artists outside contemporary music. If it wasn't "new music," it wasn't art, especially if it was widely received.
Seeing this behavior with guitar makes me not want to play at all. I have to step away from it all before the inspiration to practice returns. I don't even consider myself good at it, but when I see that stuff it makes me not even want to try. With things that I am actually decent at, I try to avoid this by avoiding the "scenes," trends, or social spaces that focus on whatever the subject may be. This also helps with generating original ideas because when you're deep into the social and cultural side of a subject, or regularly consuming other artist's version of that subject, you're constantly bombarded with other people's ideas, which can tend to act more like a blindfold than an inspiration.
When I was going to school for art a teacher of mine did an entire class on Rob Liefeld, and notably how bad he was at drawing. He always gets work because he never misses a deadline, and at his peak he was producing 3 full comics a month which absolutely insane. Long story short, Editors like in when artists turn in their work on time.
I thoroughly enjoy your channel. As a painting artist and actor, I can totally relate. And such a shame, as you would expect we're all in the same boat, struggling to reach success. But no.... I will backtrack your videos. Such great content, I dabble in creative writing and the few videos I've seen here on your channel so far, give me hope and courage to pen stories down. Thanks a lot and a big hello from Sweden. 🇸🇪🧡🇺🇸
@@DVSPress Hello. It varies greatly in style. Some of it is at firepath-art.blogspot.se At the moment most I do is with acrylic paint. However, this year I'm sure I will transition 50/50 to enhance some of my better ones using digital resources. I am still a bit 'old school'. 😁
I have admittedly been guilty of this envy. I have been in a fairly successful hard rock band for years, and struggle to not see other bands purely as competitors. I’ve gotten better at relaxing those notions, but I was especially toxic in my early 20s.
I am in a situation where I am jealous of those who have better or worst art-style than mine. Doesn't help that drawing is where I taught jealousy. It is best to drawn for our-self and not think about others. Drawing feel good. (I would pretend that Malaysian nail doesn't exist)
well a thing with someone like liefield is that being successful doesn't necessarily mean 'good.' his art IS very bad. should i show you that god aweful captain america he did? and rather than correct it and improve he's seemed to double down on it and make excuses. being in a better position doesn't mean you can't 'critique' the work they do. and it doesn't mean they're good. or taking it from a person who did writing, the twilight books. they're awful filled with grammar errors and spelling errors but they're insanely successful. success doesn't mean good work or quality. it just means they struck with the right crowd and lucked in. nothing more, nothing less. a true great will stand the test of time even after they die and be remarked upon for its quality. someone like liefield or wouzzou will last, not for their greatness, but because they're jokes. they will be used as examples of what NOT to emulate and be used to point and laugh at like a jester or clown. it is a type of success but I doubt it's the type most people want to be remembered for.
I struggle with this in a way. I am an avid independent film composer. I have had mild success, won a couple bestbfeatyre score awards at some festivals. I'll post on social media about uploading jobs, or my enthusiasm in doing scores and I just seem to get a lot of absence among support, except the clients who love my work. I do a lot of research before working and collaborating with the filmmakers to get an idea on what they want. I do hard work, even though I notnup to par with some seasoned pros, but I think people think this comes easy to me, like I do it without effort. Its hard work, and I do feel ignored which could be jealously. I work alot on it because I love the craft. Do you think this has to do with jealously?
Gatekeeping is super toxic. Not only does it reek of insecurity, but even worse, one's passion for the beauty of their art form gets replaced by a passion for the pedigree of their art form. The snobbery turns their art into something extremely boring.
Its true. All of it. I did same things as well. Only difference with me was I making suits for other people, but only got credit once. Its huge among film makers as well. Plus Im in the power ranger fandom its always been there. Never got followed back or subbed by those people. I also got banned off facebook as well where I would promote my work so doesnt help either.
love how sites like deviantart will say ''just practice'' then screech ''art theif!'' when people do practice. so,they are basically saying ''don't draw.'' -_-
I've earned a living as an artist for 35 years and I do not have one artist friend. My best friend, growing up, was also an artist. He was always so jealous of me and did everything he could to try and bring me down that I never had any interest in being friends with any other artists after that. Then, once I became successful, I watched my regular friends turn on me, too. They say it's lonely at the top... this is what they mean. Honestly, tho, I don't care what anyone thinks, anymore. I'm happy, free, successful and living my dream, while most people wallow in mediocrity, making excuses for their pathos and seething with jealousy. F-them. Oh, and Comicsgate (and comic book people, in general) suck. They are the biggest losers on the planet.
I fly into a rage everytime I see a work of art that is better than mine. Everytime I go to the bookstore I seethe....... When Each Harry potter book came out I needed medications. AUAUAUAUAUAUAUAUAUGHGHGHGHHGHHGHGHGHGGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Always try and work with better than you - then this does not happen. Always enjoy and encourage other people's success. It's great when people succeed! Quit hanging around with people who don't enjoy other people succeeding - they are like poison to themselves and others
My daughter has gotten into drawing recently. We are encouraging her to really work it, but not see it as a career. She has enough brains to do techie work and given the toxic atmosphere of the arts, it just seemed better to tell her to keep it hobby. It seems like she would be freer to do what she wants with her art rather than have deal with patrons and the art scene.
First step, stop caring about what other people are doing. This will allow you to put your energy into your own work. Second step, watch out for people who will try to tear you down to elevate themselves and distance yourself from them. Note a lot of people like this will a lot of times come to you as just wanting to be helpful, your new bestest buddy.
I partially disagree, in some scenarios you can learn a lot by caring about what other people are doing (especially if you want to be a serialized Mangaka without 5-10 years of training in Backgrounds), the problem, is establishing the "Learning Phase", the "Publication/Debut Phase" and the hardest "Monetization Phase". Most nowadays get stuck in the "Learning Phase" because of silly expectations and demoralizations from the Media, the last phase is going to be really hard to reach digitally, because you have to be recognized by the market first, if you arent at first attempt you have to try multiple times.
@@sebas8225 You have missed my point. In the context given, not to care what other people are doing, as in don't take their success as your failure. No where in there did I even imply not to learn nor to reject any opportunity to learn. You implied that yourself and I will thank you not to do that again. It's best not to assume the worse or the extreme about people and what they are saying.
I total feel this. I had made a good bit of art as a young adult. I just kept at it. 100s of hours into one thing just to make it the way I wanted it. The local philosophy club at my college needed help & it sounded like good exposure. They were my friends, so sure I will gladly donate to help the cause. They put forth the auction, told no one with cash & nothing sold. The random people who just wanted to look at art & have a wine or beer, weren't buying either. It was a total waste. So that was kind of an uggghh feeling. But later, when I went to get the art back, they couldn't be bothered. They didn't know where it was or why it was lost or who had it. I was far from happy. I realized that it is normal for college folk & I was busy with school also, so I let it slide. Just before finals I learn it was in the drawing teachers room (like 101). He was a bit put out, but gave a back handed compliment to my work. It was the best part of that experience. Someone who was doing art saying my art meant something, even if he wasn't happy. The point being is, those that couldn't were just my friends. I was asking to much to expect they knew what my art meant to me. They were also not pushing themselves like I was either. So they did do things that made themselves feel better, like back bite people who were making it happen. They did think my art was worth something though, or they wouldn't have asked for it. Sometimes that is all you can expect. You are right though. Shine to brightly in front of a slub & they will hate you, because you cast light & they want to hide. Help them stop hating themselves & that might be flipping tables. I enjoy these videos, even when I think some of it is off.
Yeah, it's present in just about any artistic "community" unfortunately. Years ago I learned to stay away from them. Luckily, I only choose to connect with artists I respect and admire. I know I've met a lot of amazing people over the years by being selective and detecting the warning signs ahead of time. There are definitely non-vindictive artists out there; you just have to look thoroughly to find them. Even outside the artistic realm this jealousy exists. My father once had a successful company related to neural robotics and RC Helicopters. Of course, there were others that hated his success and tried to take everything away from him. Although they didn't succeed, they still left some bad damage, and by then it was too late and my father had to abandon what he started. I guess the point is, it's bad to remain with jealous individuals because they WILL do whatever they can to either leech off of you or make you as much as a miserable failure as them.
Envy seems to be pretty much what drives politics and the media these days. I think we've all been guilty of it at one time or another, but as you grow up, you start realizing everyone's better off if you work together rather than against each other. Sadly, not everyone grows up.
I don't "hate" Liefeld but I do think his style is goofy and kinda ugly. It looks like he spends a lot of time on the details after just barely eyeballing the base structure. I'm guessing his style doesn't look like something that could get you popular as an artist, so other artists whose styles are more widely likable are probably baffled and angry that he's successful despite his wonky unorthodox drawing technique.
Now I feel like I was an oddity on my "clique". I was hands down the laziest on my comics scriptwriting group but I never threw shit at anyone, unless they were actually disrespecting the medium. Hell, I even defended a local comic studio, that did produce crap not gonna lie, because as bland as their work was I respected that they had put in the work. I possibly hated that the main guy on that studio was a Spiderman fanboy that didn't actually care for his characters more than anyone there, he even disfigured his most famous creation into a shitty Spiderman clone because he just fucking wanted to draw goddamn spiderman, but I still had to respect that he had been busting his ass off promoting his brand for years regardless. They were okay guys, though; none of this catty shit one sees on this kind of scenes. Except for that time they praised The Force Awakens. I haven't talked to them since then.
At all the software companies I've worked at there was usually one guy who built the main system up from nothing, allowing the company to survive for 10, 20, 30 years. And that guy is always shittalked for writing "bad code", as if the code style matters more than the fact that it works.
![Writing Advice: Writer Jealousy and How to Combat It [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WnPu5ONDVww/mqdefault.jpg)
I am sick of all the jealous energy I got to deal with when I share my work, it is giving anxiety and I don't even want to share my work anymore.
I'm the least productive person I know but I don't spend my time berating people who are productive. I spend it berating myself for being lazy.
Exactly. I admire hard work. They deserve their success.
I think one element to this is that when talented/creative people are young and have no competition, they receive a lot of compliments from family and friends of family. They then move to school and there might be a few creative children but because the majority aren't, the competition factor doesn't build. It's only when these creatives are pushed together at college and university that they finally get an opportunity to measure themselves first hand and realise just how big the talent gap can be thus resulting in jealous behaviour. This was the case when I went through the education system but I have no idea how social media fits into this now.
Social Media now helps or breaks the "Publication/Debut" and "Monetization" Phases, since it attracts attention of possible consumers.
@@sebas8225can you explain this
I was in a progressive metal band with a couple guys I thought were good friends and when I brought in some ideas they would always tell me this or that should be a certain way. All the while they never would bring in ideas to the band, and it was only me writing. Those guys still play together to this day, and they still play a song I 100% wrote. I am 46 years old now, and I haven't played guitar in nearly 7 years. I have a chronic illness and cannot keep up anymore.
That may not have any meaning to the context of this video, but I just wanted to express it. Love your channel.
hey man dont know if this means anything but maybe try getting back into composing, just for yourself. who knoas could be fun
In my experience with jealous people, they can have it all and still somehow find a way or reason to be nasty. If I can guess, they see your potential..?
I’ve consistently noticed over the years that the role of a charismatic singer/guitarist/frontman is particularly envied and it brings out a lot of resentment and defensiveness in others who secretly wish they could enjoy that role. Curious if anyone else has observed this
"Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to someone else today"- Jordan Peterson. Really appreciate the video. Currently in final year of an arts degree, and my friends and I are guilty of envy, but it stops there- I would never sink to bad mouthing people or being mean because I know it's me who needs to be better- instead I ask for advice. Been having a really bad case of artist depression lately. I know my current work is mediocre at best and I know that if I really put as much effort into projects as I possibly could and REALLY tried hard then I could go back to making great work like I used to but it's been so hard not succumbing to depression and fear and losing motivation.
or naruto. "I want to be greater than the person i was 2 seconds ago!" - rock lee vs his clone self.
@Akira Kurosawa ?
This behavior is not restricted to artists alone: some of my classmates began envying me when my grades started rising above all others in class.
I'm not sure this happens because there's too much competition, people just want success without work, I guess.
Think it's a Bruce Lee Quote and often very true... "If you are being criticized, you are doing something right"
This is exactly the thing that turns me off about the elite scene in SFF, particularly the short story markets. I'm writing for that MTG player in Omaha.
This is also at the heart of why comicsgate is where it is. And yeah, YA stuff, just don't go there. No Mr. Frodo! There is no happiness there.
I would see people try to do this in the bluegrass scene I was involved in 20 years ago. It never came off well; people with a negative attitude (often brought from other music scenes) would just turn people off.
Thank you..
I experience this alot....it's crazy..all l do is support ..but the jealousy l get back is crazy.......it's everywhere
Most of us have or had these thoughts in our minds, but the less time you spend thinking about these things the better, because you can not do anything about other people beeing more successful than you or not. The only thing you can do is continue enjoy what you are doing or quit! These negative thoughts are in the way of the true joy of music (and other things in life).
That is one of the reasons I left the film industry. Once you do something good or out of the box, people in the industry can't hide their jealousy to the point that it became extremely toxic.
Jealousy and Envy are forever whispering in our ears. They have to consciously be avoided because they are terrible for you, I've certainly felt them, I don't think it is just the arts.
You see it in any field. Or any walk of life. All the people more successful than you are must have done something uncharitable to get there.
@@thesupremeatheistintellect64 - Not always. Much of the time, yes but it's not a given.
It gets bizarre when you supported them but they can't even hit a like or worse go silent when you share your work directly.
that's how narcissists work. Ignore these people.
You see this in Irish sessiun groups- especially among fiddle players! It's almost like they turn it into a competition!
I was in a band, and my lead female singer and my lead male singer, allied- to discourage me from singing...so I didnt unless it was in a chorus... THEY wanted the spotlight! When we finally broke up, I became the lead... and NOW I know why they behaved like they did! Cuz I'm VERY good! I am now a soloist, and have found out I have a 2+ Octave range- I can belt out Queen, or Elvis. In tune! And blow the audience away...
Dont EVER fall prey to people like this! Do your own thing, and strive for exceptionalism!
Jealousy and envy may be a big part of one upping somebody as an artist, but I don’t think the barometer should be measuring how well someone reacts to another artist’s work. I went to school for Graphic Design. I’ve gone to art shows and watched artists making paintings or creating something in their booths at fairs. One time I made a suggest about adding something to a painting, but I don’t know if the artist did anything with my suggestion. We had a lovely conversation about going to art school though.
I've seen a lot of hamstringing done by musicians in my scene. Subtle things. "I'll be your guitar player" -- and then laying down crap to ruin the studio take (a blues lick on my synth-pop track?). Or showing up to a jam, and not turning the amp up, so their parts can't be copied. Or offering to produce your album, and then your mixes are way way way less refined than their own mixes. Why does the snare sound like a cardboard box in my mix...we used the same drum set. It all makes sense when you realize that he thinks you're The Competition.
I struggled with jealousy when I was starting to play drums, but already at the end of my teenage years I had gotten over myself and if someone was better and/or more successful than me I didn't care. I've long been a strong believer in comparing my current skill (in anything, not only drums) only to my past self. I can look at other people that are better than me for inspiration on what to learn next, but in terms of progress or success I am happy as long as I'm going forward.
Sadly spot-on with CG..
I'm neither comics gate or anti comics gate, but both sides act childish.
I thought CG was just the idea of producing quality comics through alternative paths. Is it a particular community where people know each other? Do you have to enter it? Cause I thought I was part of CG and all I do is publish my little webcomic to hone my skills until I can draw at least decently enough to crowdfund a proper comic.
Anyway, if CG is like that... I'll just strive towards the idea. I like it when it is about quality comics to stick it to the establishment.
Yeah, too much drama.
Comicsgate was semi successful in convincing people that comicsgate meant indie comics.
It started as consumers talking about marvel and DC, then a bunch of pros entered into it and took over the hashtag, and now it has devolved into a small click of angry nerds.
Independent publishing of comics was around before, and will be around after, hopefully with fewer drama streams and more products shipping on time.
David Stewart I really wish I could formulate my words like you do but I don't so I'll only concur.😉
You're spot on. I was a talented shit head in my teens it took seeing students less talented than me get excellent grades while barely scraped by with 50% attendance to realise what an ego I had. A kid who i still keep in touch with now having reformed my attitude was the real awakening for me. He lived 3 hours away by train so he spent 6 hours a day 4 days per week on the train drawing and working. I lived 10 minutes away and did the absolute bare minimum. My tutor that year had taught me previously and said I should take the course as it would be an easy A for me, in the end I was lucky to get a C with how bad my work ethic was. In retrospect I needed my ego checking.
While I agree with you on this concept, Rob Liefeld has put out some bad art to the point where it can be cataloged; in fact, it has, by many wannabe comic book writers. One critic I can think of that matches your concept of 'those who cannot create instead put down' is a critic by the name of Linkara, who was a very vocal critic of Liefeld's during the early 2000s. He has his own webcomic titled 'Lightbringer,' which showcases drawing quality comparable to what I'm sure Liefeld put out when he was 10. I think what a lot of people are missing is that Liefeld's productivity dwarfs most of his peers. He may not always hit a home run, but the man is always swinging, and for that he should be recognized and respected. It's extremely difficult to be 'inspired' on the regular, and Liefeld must have the equivalent of a quantum warp core for his motivation. His comics dominated the 90s, and I think a lot of pessimism sneaks in with the legitimate criticism.
I've done several lectures featuring Rob's art and the problems with it (in short, he tries to duplicate the style of comics without knowing illustration techniques first), but 90%+ of the people who criticize him are artists who are not better than him. Rob is a professional, like him or hate him.
When I was studying art in college we had one professor who would get very jealous if her students were better artists than her. Not to the point of giving out bad grades, but constantly criticizing or making passive aggressive remarks about that student to the rest of the class, etc. I noticed this when I was going through and my brother noticed it also when he took classes with her a few years later. In fact I think my brother got the worst of it, since he has always had almost prodigious levels of art skills going all the way back to when he was about 5.
Very good video David. This really puts things in perspective regarding jealousy of others when it comes to making anything, be it music, comics, books or movies. There will always be someone who’s jealous of somebody else for whatever reason.
You cant please everyone.
Hi David, I experienced this not only with Fisk as you shared but also many pros did it to Yamashita!
This was incredibly true at Berklee College of Music.
I am incredibly jealous of David Stewart's masterclass ability to continually entertain me with interesting conversation topics.
Thank you!
interesting… there's been plenty of times I felt like somebody inferior to me got more success and recognition, but at the same time I could also trace my failure to weaknesses in the works I presented. I knew I wasn't at the top of my game, that I could do better. I never thought I was cheated out of success. and when somebody was clearly superior to me, I could see that too.
Well, I've had people put me down, but I don't think that pertained to them being jealous of me, they were jealous of someone else and needed to take it out on someone. I find it pitiful. Maybe jealously is something all people go through and need to learn to overcome it. I don't think I've ever sniped at people, I rather try and lift them up or give words of encouragement.
I believe there are two kinds of people: those who put others down to raise themselves up by comparison, and those who bring themselves up by pulling others up with them.
Many of the toxic musicians I have met have been the 'music nerds'. They obsess over theory and tone, and since most of them are hacks or just okay players, they overcompensate for it with knowledge of technical minutiae
Amen
Thanks for this video . Love you ❤️
But in all seriousness, I've always had relatively good friendships with other musicians. When I put out demos, they seem to like them, and when they write stuff, I tell them their stuff is cool. I do get jealous of incredibly successful musicians (IE Billie Eilish), but that jealousy changes into a "Wait a minute! What are they doing that makes their music so good or catchy or how do they use that melody?"
EDIT: I would strongly suggest using jealousy not for gossip, but for musical deconstructions. I learned vocal melodies and harmonies from listening to pop singers and translated that to guitar.
I find the rise in toxicity of the YA field to correlate with the rise of older people to be reading it. I don't know if it's the cause but I don't think it helped.
Yeah I noticed that too. Maybe it's that so many of them are emotionally hampered that they are stuck in an earlier state?
I don't know though.
This is why I don't watch stuff like Red Letter Media or YourMovieSucks. That whole genre of "harsh" criticism is just a bunch of aspiring filmmakers that want to demolish stuff just to convince themselves they could do better. At university, there were people that loved to watch this type of content and carried out the harsh criticism to all movies, be them made by Hollywood or co-students. The unifying factor was that the work of these people was almost always the worst in the class.
Food for thought.
Part of why I got away from doing movie reviews
@@DVSPress To be fair, it's hard to be positive about any new movies. Anyway, any chance for a video on Gene Wolfe, more specifically, the Book of the New Sun? Do you have any opinions on those? Sorry if it was mentioned before, I'm a bit new to the channel, I subscribed after watching that Last of Us 2 video.
I've found there's a big split amoung artists. Many who are in comics are repulsive goofs that are extremely "beta" miserable creeps. Those who work in games or film as concept artists / modellers / matte painters / board artists, etc are generally cool and far more talented as a whole. It's like in film - the wannabe starbucks screenwriter zilch is a giant douche with a massive ego - meanwhile, a guy like Tom Cruise remembers the name of every grip on set and is the nicest guy you could imagine. The higher people are on the social hierarchy ladder, generally - the cooler they are. Almost every loser "comic artist" failure I've met is an unlikable knob with an ego 10x the size of genuine a-list movie stars. As an artist - I avoid most artists.
Coveting is a sin, for good reason.
Hiphop and drum n bass scene is just like this.
ehm, i always found that REAL artists, successful or not, tend to be very humble and kind.
also, since i am into Flamenco myself, the roots aren't purely gypsy, rather multiple, and the more I learn about hidden history, the more I realize that it is very IndoEuropean. Explains a lot our love for flamenco.
True on both.
I recently got to hang out with the band Kamelot. All of them were very humble, kind and professional.
I didn't have that intense experience like you had David, in part because I didn't work prolifically like you as a student. One thing I did see in the academics was this constant disparaging of highly successful artists outside contemporary music. If it wasn't "new music," it wasn't art, especially if it was widely received.
Seeing this behavior with guitar makes me not want to play at all. I have to step away from it all before the inspiration to practice returns. I don't even consider myself good at it, but when I see that stuff it makes me not even want to try.
With things that I am actually decent at, I try to avoid this by avoiding the "scenes," trends, or social spaces that focus on whatever the subject may be. This also helps with generating original ideas because when you're deep into the social and cultural side of a subject, or regularly consuming other artist's version of that subject, you're constantly bombarded with other people's ideas, which can tend to act more like a blindfold than an inspiration.
Lol, that bit about flamenco was hilarious. I guess that the gitano's traditional insularity rubs on the people that "identify" as such...
When I was going to school for art a teacher of mine did an entire class on Rob Liefeld, and notably how bad he was at drawing. He always gets work because he never misses a deadline, and at his peak he was producing 3 full comics a month which absolutely insane. Long story short, Editors like in when artists turn in their work on time.
I thoroughly enjoy your channel. As a painting artist and actor, I can totally relate. And such a shame, as you would expect we're all in the same boat, struggling to reach success. But no.... I will backtrack your videos. Such great content, I dabble in creative writing and the few videos I've seen here on your channel so far, give me hope and courage to pen stories down. Thanks a lot and a big hello from Sweden. 🇸🇪🧡🇺🇸
Thanks so much! I hope you have success. What style do you like to paint? Do you have a social media profile that has some of it up?
@@DVSPress Hello. It varies greatly in style. Some of it is at firepath-art.blogspot.se
At the moment most I do is with acrylic paint. However, this year I'm sure I will transition 50/50 to enhance some of my better ones using digital resources. I am still a bit 'old school'. 😁
Ha! Jealousy from older colleagues can be poisonous too, especially if they're buddy buddy with the boss.
I have admittedly been guilty of this envy. I have been in a fairly successful hard rock band for years, and struggle to not see other bands purely as competitors. I’ve gotten better at relaxing those notions, but I was especially toxic in my early 20s.
I am in a situation where I am jealous of those who have better or worst art-style than mine. Doesn't help that drawing is where I taught jealousy.
It is best to drawn for our-self and not think about others. Drawing feel good.
(I would pretend that Malaysian nail doesn't exist)
well a thing with someone like liefield is that being successful doesn't necessarily mean 'good.' his art IS very bad. should i show you that god aweful captain america he did? and rather than correct it and improve he's seemed to double down on it and make excuses. being in a better position doesn't mean you can't 'critique' the work they do. and it doesn't mean they're good.
or taking it from a person who did writing, the twilight books. they're awful filled with grammar errors and spelling errors but they're insanely successful. success doesn't mean good work or quality. it just means they struck with the right crowd and lucked in. nothing more, nothing less.
a true great will stand the test of time even after they die and be remarked upon for its quality. someone like liefield or wouzzou will last, not for their greatness, but because they're jokes. they will be used as examples of what NOT to emulate and be used to point and laugh at like a jester or clown. it is a type of success but I doubt it's the type most people want to be remembered for.
I struggle with this in a way. I am an avid independent film composer. I have had mild success, won a couple bestbfeatyre score awards at some festivals. I'll post on social media about uploading jobs, or my enthusiasm in doing scores and I just seem to get a lot of absence among support, except the clients who love my work. I do a lot of research before working and collaborating with the filmmakers to get an idea on what they want. I do hard work, even though I notnup to par with some seasoned pros, but I think people think this comes easy to me, like I do it without effort. Its hard work, and I do feel ignored which could be jealously. I work alot on it because I love the craft. Do you think this has to do with jealously?
Have you done a video on “Your friends are not your audience?” I can’t seem to find it and would like to hear your take on this in more detail.
Old article
David Stewart New video? ;)
Gatekeeping is super toxic. Not only does it reek of insecurity, but even worse, one's passion for the beauty of their art form gets replaced by a passion for the pedigree of their art form. The snobbery turns their art into something extremely boring.
Bruh, Liefeld...
You don't, uh, think there's any legitimate criticism there?
This is Reddit-tier sophistry, newfriend.
oh i never got why Liefeld is a thing but i dont obsess over it... like ppl have 'funny' tastes... tahs about it lol
I think it's the pouches.
You can never have too many pouches filled with... Whatever
@@DVSPress true. I can apprecte a good pouch
People have tendency to bec ome more careful with their words as the number of people who listen to them increases.
True!
Virgin Mary. . . the Our Lady of Perpetual Relief
Its true. All of it. I did same things as well. Only difference with me was I making suits for other people, but only got credit once. Its huge among film makers as well. Plus Im in the power ranger fandom its always been there. Never got followed back or subbed by those people. I also got banned off facebook as well where I would promote my work so doesnt help either.
love how sites like deviantart will say ''just practice'' then screech ''art theif!'' when people do practice. so,they are basically saying ''don't draw.'' -_-
I've earned a living as an artist for 35 years and I do not have one artist friend. My best friend, growing up, was also an artist. He was always so jealous of me and did everything he could to try and bring me down that I never had any interest in being friends with any other artists after that. Then, once I became successful, I watched my regular friends turn on me, too. They say it's lonely at the top... this is what they mean. Honestly, tho, I don't care what anyone thinks, anymore. I'm happy, free, successful and living my dream, while most people wallow in mediocrity, making excuses for their pathos and seething with jealousy. F-them. Oh, and Comicsgate (and comic book people, in general) suck. They are the biggest losers on the planet.
I, too, listen to Morrissey
I fly into a rage everytime I see a work of art that is better than mine. Everytime I go to the bookstore I seethe.......
When Each Harry potter book came out I needed medications. AUAUAUAUAUAUAUAUAUGHGHGHGHHGHHGHGHGHGGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Always try and work with better than you - then this does not happen. Always enjoy and encourage other people's success. It's great when people succeed! Quit hanging around with people who don't enjoy other people succeeding - they are like poison to themselves and others
My daughter has gotten into drawing recently. We are encouraging her to really work it, but not see it as a career. She has enough brains to do techie work and given the toxic atmosphere of the arts, it just seemed better to tell her to keep it hobby. It seems like she would be freer to do what she wants with her art rather than have deal with patrons and the art scene.
Wouldn’t you say grass roots funding has changed that a lot though?
@@LotusesGalaxyOcean - Not really, no.
First step, stop caring about what other people are doing. This will allow you to put your energy into your own work.
Second step, watch out for people who will try to tear you down to elevate themselves and distance yourself from them. Note a lot of people like this will a lot of times come to you as just wanting to be helpful, your new bestest buddy.
I partially disagree, in some scenarios you can learn a lot by caring about what other people are doing (especially if you want to be a serialized Mangaka without 5-10 years of training in Backgrounds), the problem, is establishing the "Learning Phase", the "Publication/Debut Phase" and the hardest "Monetization Phase".
Most nowadays get stuck in the "Learning Phase" because of silly expectations and demoralizations from the Media, the last phase is going to be really hard to reach digitally, because you have to be recognized by the market first, if you arent at first attempt you have to try multiple times.
@@sebas8225 You have missed my point. In the context given, not to care what other people are doing, as in don't take their success as your failure.
No where in there did I even imply not to learn nor to reject any opportunity to learn. You implied that yourself and I will thank you not to do that again.
It's best not to assume the worse or the extreme about people and what they are saying.
I knew flamenco was from Spain because of Punch-Out
David, replace artists with people LOL
Reminds me of "The Neighbor's Goat".
These artists probably want the government to subsidize their careers.
"They were putting out music all the time" COUGH WINTERSUN.
Imagine how much more successful they'd be if they could actually put stuff out on time.
@@DVSPress lol right?
I total feel this. I had made a good bit of art as a young adult. I just kept at it. 100s of hours into one thing just to make it the way I wanted it.
The local philosophy club at my college needed help & it sounded like good exposure. They were my friends, so sure I will gladly donate to help the cause. They put forth the auction, told no one with cash & nothing sold. The random people who just wanted to look at art & have a wine or beer, weren't buying either. It was a total waste. So that was kind of an uggghh feeling.
But later, when I went to get the art back, they couldn't be bothered. They didn't know where it was or why it was lost or who had it. I was far from happy. I realized that it is normal for college folk & I was busy with school also, so I let it slide. Just before finals I learn it was in the drawing teachers room (like 101). He was a bit put out, but gave a back handed compliment to my work. It was the best part of that experience. Someone who was doing art saying my art meant something, even if he wasn't happy.
The point being is, those that couldn't were just my friends. I was asking to much to expect they knew what my art meant to me. They were also not pushing themselves like I was either. So they did do things that made themselves feel better, like back bite people who were making it happen. They did think my art was worth something though, or they wouldn't have asked for it. Sometimes that is all you can expect.
You are right though. Shine to brightly in front of a slub & they will hate you, because you cast light & they want to hide. Help them stop hating themselves & that might be flipping tables.
I enjoy these videos, even when I think some of it is off.
Story sounds familiar.
Yeah, it's present in just about any artistic "community" unfortunately. Years ago I learned to stay away from them. Luckily, I only choose to connect with artists I respect and admire. I know I've met a lot of amazing people over the years by being selective and detecting the warning signs ahead of time. There are definitely non-vindictive artists out there; you just have to look thoroughly to find them. Even outside the artistic realm this jealousy exists. My father once had a successful company related to neural robotics and RC Helicopters. Of course, there were others that hated his success and tried to take everything away from him. Although they didn't succeed, they still left some bad damage, and by then it was too late and my father had to abandon what he started. I guess the point is, it's bad to remain with jealous individuals because they WILL do whatever they can to either leech off of you or make you as much as a miserable failure as them.
Envy seems to be pretty much what drives politics and the media these days. I think we've all been guilty of it at one time or another, but as you grow up, you start realizing everyone's better off if you work together rather than against each other. Sadly, not everyone grows up.
DK reunion tour, then? Hehehe
That's a wonderful video and all.
But can we talk about the anime Vuwgin Mawyy in the bacc? UwU
robs art is pretty good on the whole, but his depiction of extra wide cap hurts my eyes :P but yeah, he usually does really good stuff
That picture of Captain America is just a meme unto itself now.
I like the drama, lol
Oh i thought you're supposed to call them Romna now.
(im not a PC whatever but i can get wanting to be called by something that ISNT a slur)
I don't pay enough attention, I guess.
@@DVSPress i dont remember how i know that
@@DVSPress oh right. Im jewish and its mentioned in Holocaust memorials sometimes. Go figure.
I don't "hate" Liefeld but I do think his style is goofy and kinda ugly. It looks like he spends a lot of time on the details after just barely eyeballing the base structure. I'm guessing his style doesn't look like something that could get you popular as an artist, so other artists whose styles are more widely likable are probably baffled and angry that he's successful despite his wonky unorthodox drawing technique.
Now I feel like I was an oddity on my "clique".
I was hands down the laziest on my comics scriptwriting group but I never threw shit at anyone, unless they were actually disrespecting the medium. Hell, I even defended a local comic studio, that did produce crap not gonna lie, because as bland as their work was I respected that they had put in the work. I possibly hated that the main guy on that studio was a Spiderman fanboy that didn't actually care for his characters more than anyone there, he even disfigured his most famous creation into a shitty Spiderman clone because he just fucking wanted to draw goddamn spiderman, but I still had to respect that he had been busting his ass off promoting his brand for years regardless.
They were okay guys, though; none of this catty shit one sees on this kind of scenes.
Except for that time they praised The Force Awakens. I haven't talked to them since then.
At all the software companies I've worked at there was usually one guy who built the main system up from nothing, allowing the company to survive for 10, 20, 30 years. And that guy is always shittalked for writing "bad code", as if the code style matters more than the fact that it works.