I think a rock paper scissors video would be pretty cool to help raise the lower skilled pvpers up the ladder. Like soft and hard counter classes. Idk something different.
This would be nice in the past, today almost every class has self heals, mobility, interrupts, DH and dks got everything specialy CC and hard af to kill.
31:15 i seen in ur stream chat " Snupy making Feral look amazing" Snupy always makes feral look amazing regardless of where it stands, dude is just good at Feral legit.
Im probably going to roll my disc priest first this expansion since solo shuffle queues are instant and its fun, but man i love my mage, and i leveled a panda mage in panda remix and he looks so funny, definitely going to play panda mage this expac.
Maybe also consider doing a BGs tier list (RBG and Blitz)? There's no way WW is higher than Z-tier without any CC or defense. I can't believe we'll have to play like this for the next two years... But hey, at least we bring low-average melee damage-until someone decides to kill us in 2 seconds through karma.
Is the gap BETWEEN the healers smaller than S4 of dragonflight though? I came back and learned to heal on Hpal and that shit felt borderline unplayable if you ran into a presvoker or rdruid. Even priests were an uphill battle. I really despise the kits of other healers so if Hpal is dogwater tier again with other healers bullying out of their own synergy comps then I might just skip leveling at all.
Which pisses me off as somebody who made my very first character in 2004 as an enhancement shaman. I remember getting the unstoppable force and wind fury prods with it were insane in AV. That must have been what, 2005 or 6? Since then enhancement has been garbage or just OK.
What I like about these videos is every time Ven puts a spec high, people who play those specs tell him no, the spec actually sucks in his twitch comments.
Frost got nerfed via passive dmg such as Icy Death Torrent. But they buffed obliterate to compensate. But they also nerfed Frost Fever (dot) strictly in PvP which idk if thats super important because our dmg is literally only ovliterate.
Can you please link the shadow priest streamers name you mentioned, Envion I think? Tried to look it up and level up my shadow priest game but can't see to find it. Thanks Ven!
As someone who plays bm and havoc… the choice seems pretty clear lol.. Esp when you throw in battlegrounds.. I think DH will be great to close gaps, land multiple stuns, flag running etc. I hope they can fix the bm issues tho. Hunters getting survivability buffs and still being kinda bad is lame.
Why is everyone so stuck in the believe that every class and every spec deserves to be good in pvp. This is a game with PVP aaaaand PVE. If your spec sucks in PVP especially just play a different spec or alt. That’s why they made it so easy now. Enhance is OP in pve.
They should just nerf the feral 4 set bonus by 30-50%. Without that Fero-bite is doing reasonable burst damage. I hope blizzard dont give Fero-bite a flat nerf because people wont have the set bonus until a few weeks into the season.
Love this dude's tier lists but I could do without the constant looking at chat and the dragging of the icon all over the tiers initially. Still, tip top videos and grateful for them, dude!
I’m an M+ shaman guy. For M+, enhance is teetering on like an A-A+. I was wondering what ability buffs it would need to feel good. Since it’s pretty good in PvE, you think it’s unlikely to receive buffs for PvP?
I don't care how bad BM is, I love the spec. It's perfect for washed up players like me that just want to watch their pets devour clothies. It did feel pretty awkward to play though when I tested it on beta.
@@LeCaptRage it’s fine but when the same spec is S tier multiple seasons in a row it becomes questionable. We can’t have one sped that just dominates all others, all the time. That’s why blizzard cycles through. Should have been an hpal or rsham tier with how bad they had it in DF.
@@arcadialive4265 Well first of all the first season hasn't started and it was okay s2 and s3. It was busted in S1 and S4. Also rogue has been broken for I dont know how many years...
@@LeCaptRage yeah but it’s different when the same healer is broken each tier. Being S-tier two times in the same expansion is broken. Creates a push barrier for healers and hurts dps in solo shuffle since they can win trade.
@@arcadialive4265 Usually when something is broken in the beta it get nerf... The xpac it not even out yet and the season is 3 1/2 weeks away of starting. Enough time to get nerf a little bit. Also p voker is hard to balance, it has a 25 yards range, big damage it either top you one shot or does low healing. The filler spell of pres is kind of bad. Also it wasn't the best season 1 when disc go rework... So I don't know why are we complaining that 1 spec is the best for 2 seasons in a row ... When some class have been broken for years... Also wintrading is such a small issue for 99.9% of the players. Nobody gives a shit what happened at the top 0.1 %..
If you wanna play frost - panda is the way to go for both horde and ally.. the incap is too good at high end pvp - incap a target who can disengage, grip secondary/ main target and blind them both.. prevents 1st target from disengaging/ fading/ retreating etc
For me personally Demonology above destro is weird cause i play on destro and never seen demo perform better plus the dmg is lacking. Idk maybe in higher ranks but where im at it doesn’t look like it.
Dh is stronger than it was in Df by a decent amount. It just wont be s tier in season 1. Once they start getting the mastery stacked to higher levels they are going to be disgusting again.
@@Wft-bu5zc ive been playing frost since MoP. its getting a bit old. gameplay for frostfire is ok, but the gameplay loop for spellslinger frost is literally SL frost. I am not playin it. I'll play arcane but they other specs, nah
enh is above D tier, they need a bit more work on their surv but their dmg output is up there with the s tier specs. If you're good on enh you will shock people in both arena and blitz
BM is 100% D tier, the damage is so bad. i went on a ret an only pressed blade of justice and judgment. It did more damage than my BM with all my CD's popped
I think that tier lists right now are pointless. Nobody really knows how anything will feel until release when we're all level 80 and fully geared tbh.
@@funkyfresh2259 most of the info we get from r1 players and its like 1% of the pvp playerbase, arcane is definetely not good if u r not playing on 2.4 average+ for example and enh would demolish 1.6-1.8 bracket
@@funkyfresh2259 It's a decent survey to go off of because it's the best we have but until a large player base is full geared and playing it live (after all the patching is done). There is no way to know for sure.
Ele definately strong. Will be more of a train victim, because lightning spec has gained so much power, if people catch up to it, then we will see alot of really strong lightning ele gameplay in tww. Lavaburst itself has lost damage but it still buffs lightning damage which has gone up a massive amount now, and with that getting casttime reductions etc, the lightning builds can really do some crazy damage.
how do i play 6+ characters and somehow every spec i like to play is trash :/ already hesitant on this expansion cause retail wow is just dogshit. Dragonflight pvp barely kept me going until everyone i knew stopped playing.
MW definitely needs some buffs in arena. In arena it's definitely feels under equipped. Casted MW feels like it's being ignored - revival heals for barely anything in arena after 30% damp and coccoon drops like a wet tissue - biggest joke of a CD - if its this weak they should make it a 1min CD not 1min3
Revival got a 15% overall healing buff, and in most situations you're using it for the magic immunity the PvP talent provides. It's fine, especially if you're taking the CD reduction talent which gets you to about a 2 min CD, insane into wizard comps. Not sure what you're on about with caster MW being ignored, it's insanely good in blitz and peer into peace is very good against cleave teams, 6% DR while channeling SooM and the baseline healing of SooM is significantly better. Not to mention we have more power in transcendence than we've ever had before and you cannot chase a caster mistweaver when we take roll snare. I agree that Cocoon is pretty bad in TWW since it's self HP scaling now but it does scale with verse so it'll scale well into the xpac, I think the biggest problem with mistweaver overall is that we just don't have any kind of DR external. I think having thunder focus tea buff Life cocoon into a mini pain suppression would ensure it still feels like a "You aren't allowed to hit this person on this go" button.
@@maagi1 8 sec stun is huge actually if its well chained with other cc. this change will be very make even more distinction between good & bad rogue players
@@yoiashi You clearly don't understand. If the change would be for pvp too, then it would be way too op for every player. But it's not. It's for pve only.
The final tier list!
until next week when there's more tuning
tier lists are a scam tho.
I think a rock paper scissors video would be pretty cool to help raise the lower skilled pvpers up the ladder. Like soft and hard counter classes. Idk something different.
This would be nice in the past, today almost every class has self heals, mobility, interrupts, DH and dks got everything specialy CC and hard af to kill.
31:15 i seen in ur stream chat " Snupy making Feral look amazing" Snupy always makes feral look amazing regardless of where it stands, dude is just good at Feral legit.
I've been running my little gnome frost mage all dragonflight and it was a pvp machine, looking forward to more success in tww.
Yea same. MAGE FOR LIFE.
@@StrobeFireStudios ele shaman is way more fun imo. Glacial spike is sick though but ehh
35:09 Here's the list.
bless you
@@frostydax I just want to see the list, I dont need to hear explanation. But I appreicate the video.
Lol savage
I’m going enhancement per usual until I can’t take it anymore lol. I just love the spec over any other. I can’t help it.
The moment we’ve been waiting for
Im probably going to roll my disc priest first this expansion since solo shuffle queues are instant and its fun, but man i love my mage, and i leveled a panda mage in panda remix and he looks so funny, definitely going to play panda mage this expac.
Aww man, if only my friends wanted to play. I would've made a Feral or Frost Mage.
I'll play with you
@@FatherCosmic Nice, well I'm not going to be playing. I have PoE and Valheim to play which takes up a lot of my time.
I’m about to become a content creator just to make a tier list of wow content creators and possibly also a tier list tier list.
Title: "ThiS tierList migHt be INSANE"
are you multiglad too?
@@frankLeort123 when it comes to tier lists? Absolutely. I’m s-tier.
@@benkelly7182 I'm S+
I will repeat myself again, music choice is 9/10 possibly 10/10.
Maybe also consider doing a BGs tier list (RBG and Blitz)? There's no way WW is higher than Z-tier without any CC or defense.
I can't believe we'll have to play like this for the next two years... But hey, at least we bring low-average melee damage-until someone decides to kill us in 2 seconds through karma.
Is the gap BETWEEN the healers smaller than S4 of dragonflight though? I came back and learned to heal on Hpal and that shit felt borderline unplayable if you ran into a presvoker or rdruid. Even priests were an uphill battle. I really despise the kits of other healers so if Hpal is dogwater tier again with other healers bullying out of their own synergy comps then I might just skip leveling at all.
I feel so bad for enhancement shaman. Its ridiculous. No love in every expansion.
Which pisses me off as somebody who made my very first character in 2004 as an enhancement shaman. I remember getting the unstoppable force and wind fury prods with it were insane in AV. That must have been what, 2005 or 6? Since then enhancement has been garbage or just OK.
@@mithrandirthegrey7644 windfury was just SO UNBELIEVABLY OP in those days that you deserve to be z tier for the next 30+ years -.-'
@@micheleturrin8822 It was nice but not that OP. All the high warlords were either frost mages or stun-lock rogues.
@@micheleturrin8822YOU PLAYED ALLIANCE SHUT THE FRONT DOOR
Shadowlands it wasn’t the worst spec. Legos broke it
What I like about these videos is every time Ven puts a spec high, people who play those specs tell him no, the spec actually sucks in his twitch comments.
Frost got nerfed via passive dmg such as Icy Death Torrent. But they buffed obliterate to compensate. But they also nerfed Frost Fever (dot) strictly in PvP which idk if thats super important because our dmg is literally only ovliterate.
Can you please link the shadow priest streamers name you mentioned, Envion I think? Tried to look it up and level up my shadow priest game but can't see to find it. Thanks Ven!
As someone who plays bm and havoc… the choice seems pretty clear lol.. Esp when you throw in battlegrounds.. I think DH will be great to close gaps, land multiple stuns, flag running etc.
I hope they can fix the bm issues tho. Hunters getting survivability buffs and still being kinda bad is lame.
After watching some of @Aeghis most recent videos, if that fire mage is dmg is D tier, that's crazy! Thanks for the video
Pre patch (this is list is actual TWW beta) and pre living bomb changes
The lil pop for Aug gave me a good chuckle. Thanks for always being awesome Ven
Love the tier lists!
Feel like with the addition of ranked Blitz, tanks need to be included in the main list. There's gonna be a lot of them.
One of the only tier lists I can trust!
Why is everyone so stuck in the believe that every class and every spec deserves to be good in pvp.
This is a game with PVP aaaaand PVE.
If your spec sucks in PVP especially just play a different spec or alt. That’s why they made it so easy now.
Enhance is OP in pve.
Is this PvP in general or just arena? would like to know about RBG
arena, but honestly rbg kinda makes lower tier specs more viable. aoe cc and aoe heals are pretty valuable
DH hunter uses Metamorphosis
“Why do I hear boss music?”
They should just nerf the feral 4 set bonus by 30-50%. Without that Fero-bite is doing reasonable burst damage. I hope blizzard dont give Fero-bite a flat nerf because people wont have the set bonus until a few weeks into the season.
How is sub rogue at A+? What damage can they do now since a month ago
srsly
- a rogue
@jpdwight I mean. We have some decent sustained damage. But not the loving burst sub rogue used to have
he and supa always places rogues and dks to s tier for asking nerfs
What was the builds for the tiers used in the evaluations for arena?
Love this dude's tier lists but I could do without the constant looking at chat and the dragging of the icon all over the tiers initially. Still, tip top videos and grateful for them, dude!
may i ask what changed to evoker and it s the best healer? i remember some motnhs ago only with specific setup teams was functionable.
It got buff after buff damage and healing wise.
I’m an M+ shaman guy. For M+, enhance is teetering on like an A-A+. I was wondering what ability buffs it would need to feel good. Since it’s pretty good in PvE, you think it’s unlikely to receive buffs for PvP?
Wouldn’t that just mean they need to tune dmg against actual players but not NPCs?
whats this tier list for because if u try playing frost pres in 2v2 ur gona have a bad time
Frost dk has been c tier PvP since Wrath. Another season it’s still c tier. Why all the hate from blizzard?
Frost DK was OP in wod but it has definitely shifted to unholy since then
its shit while alone. but a monster with right comp. hits like a truck because of shit survive skills and no ms effect. needs complete rework
DH literally has the best teir set bonus in the game period nothing even comes close too it.
I don't care how bad BM is, I love the spec. It's perfect for washed up players like me that just want to watch their pets devour clothies. It did feel pretty awkward to play though when I tested it on beta.
Bring back radiant degree for rets, ahh the good ole days
Is this list for RBG, World PVP or Arena???
I kid you not when he said “I said fury not Siri” my Siri activated 😂
how many tier lists before aug is added
Aug was added?
@@maagi1no, that’s tank druid
@@SIIKAP1 He added aug by editing it in?
So enhancement is still shit. 20 years and counting
Hey they were OP AF in MOP for a short while near the end 😂
I'm going shaman main. Most likely enhance but the option for healing is also nice. I just like the class for some reason.
@@Jeckaa84that’s great
lol Shaman Enh has been very viable for glad and r1 all expansions and all seasons
enh feels very strong on beta. standard storm build + primordial wave. tier lists mean nothing
6 days right? for early access?
I feel like Blizzard hates enhancement shaman.. The last time I remember it being "Great" in pvp was like WoD.
So in other words, nerf mage, fury, unholy and feral. :)
you should consider reworking the tier list by hero spec per class
I love the tier list meta
I agree with everything except the Havoc placement, WW is definately in a better spot than havoc. DH doesnt feel nearly as good as it did in DF.
thank god we aren't obligated to play fire for once
Average Druid rating at A+, fair and balanced!
Another tier with prevoker in S-Tier? What is the world coming to. I do like to see Disc in A+. Thats actually cool.
Why its not fine to Pres to be S tier lol ?
@@LeCaptRage it’s fine but when the same spec is S tier multiple seasons in a row it becomes questionable. We can’t have one sped that just dominates all others, all the time. That’s why blizzard cycles through. Should have been an hpal or rsham tier with how bad they had it in DF.
@@arcadialive4265 Well first of all the first season hasn't started and it was okay s2 and s3. It was busted in S1 and S4.
Also rogue has been broken for I dont know how many years...
@@LeCaptRage yeah but it’s different when the same healer is broken each tier. Being S-tier two times in the same expansion is broken. Creates a push barrier for healers and hurts dps in solo shuffle since they can win trade.
@@arcadialive4265 Usually when something is broken in the beta it get nerf... The xpac it not even out yet and the season is 3 1/2 weeks away of starting. Enough time to get nerf a little bit.
Also p voker is hard to balance, it has a 25 yards range, big damage it either top you one shot or does low healing. The filler spell of pres is kind of bad. Also it wasn't the best season 1 when disc go rework... So I don't know why are we complaining that 1 spec is the best for 2 seasons in a row ... When some class have been broken for years... Also wintrading is such a small issue for 99.9% of the players. Nobody gives a shit what happened at the top 0.1 %..
I want to play DK on horde. How important is picking orc?
If you wanna play frost - panda is the way to go for both horde and ally.. the incap is too good at high end pvp - incap a target who can disengage, grip secondary/ main target and blind them both.. prevents 1st target from disengaging/ fading/ retreating etc
Idk about meepmonk holding his own against prevokers as mw. Last night he went 0-4 against Next's prevoker and ragequitted lol.
pw:shield is pretty thic again. Love to see it
Maining blood dk pvp, looking for two invokers for 10 second games.
Excited for RMP
For me personally Demonology above destro is weird cause i play on destro and never seen demo perform better plus the dmg is lacking. Idk maybe in higher ranks but where im at it doesn’t look like it.
chat on screen, nice
Hows my Feral S here but on pve is trash 😭??
Damn haven't played since shadowlands was going to come back and play enhance shaman, dreams ruined
this is for arena i think? we need in the future 3 lists XD 1. Arena, 2. RBG, 3. BlitzBG RBG and Blitz are not the same it give big differents
Why you gotta talk about feral getting nerfed?!
Dh is stronger than it was in Df by a decent amount. It just wont be s tier in season 1. Once they start getting the mastery stacked to higher levels they are going to be disgusting again.
are you going to do a specific frost mage guide?
Press ICE lance
@@nicob8922 How dare you - cast Frostbolt
@@nicob8922I get thats the joke. But there is a lot more to it than that lol if you go in thinking that’s how it will go than you will be very bad
Affli have multiple schools?
Tanks are sorta relevant now tho in rbgs
Feral is extremely strong. Yikes!
It’s not
A few days away from early access, the actual release is 2 weeks away
I was watching this video playin pre patch on my fire mage, and at 8:02 i logged off to find a new character
You know you can just switch specs, right? Frost is way more fun to play anyway.
@@Wft-bu5zc ive been playing frost since MoP. its getting a bit old. gameplay for frostfire is ok, but the gameplay loop for spellslinger frost is literally SL frost. I am not playin it. I'll play arcane but they other specs, nah
Why is your mage’s name in Chinese
gouge shud be 4 sec since its melee. imprison and incap are ranged so makes no sense.
Came here to find augmentation evoker.. :(
thank you for your tier list for the war within beta.
buffenhancement shaman pleaseeeeeeeeeee
Needs a rework, but blizzard doesn’t know how.
They are afraid 2 because that spec can be a absolute power house with instant heals and and instant ele blasts!
@@Memoop-iz6vk imean ele blast is getting boring ngl i wouldnt mind physical build to be back
@@Psylo94 I agree let it be like wotlk again simple but effective
Can we do a vid where we talk about solid counters to meta
I just started pvp again. Haven't played for years, but fury feels abit squisy compared too arms. But me pvp gear is still low. 😂
Let me know when Enhance becomes less than a joke. I’ll be playing SoD since those devs seem to allow Shaman to be good.
enh is above D tier, they need a bit more work on their surv but their dmg output is up there with the s tier specs. If you're good on enh you will shock people in both arena and blitz
@@kingsludg how can you say this so confidently while being beyond wrong
The tier list we've been waiting for. Can't wait to hear from Ven how mage is mid 😂😂😂
"Known Ret hater Venruki", hah!
Arms is def not b, it's for sure A
magnus been saying arms is trash compared to fury, overpower and MS just got big nerfs
bm will definitely get buffed, hidden blizz rule: every easy and badass spec is around A tier at least
Hell no
troll
I think you should just play what you like iv seen ppl rank everything so different that the information isn't useful
BM is 100% D tier, the damage is so bad.
i went on a ret an only pressed blade of justice and judgment. It did more damage than my BM with all my CD's popped
I think that tier lists right now are pointless. Nobody really knows how anything will feel until release when we're all level 80 and fully geared tbh.
So the beta was worth no information?
@@funkyfresh2259 most of the info we get from r1 players and its like 1% of the pvp playerbase, arcane is definetely not good if u r not playing on 2.4 average+ for example and enh would demolish 1.6-1.8 bracket
@@funkyfresh2259 It's a decent survey to go off of because it's the best we have but until a large player base is full geared and playing it live (after all the patching is done). There is no way to know for sure.
RMP on the climb huh
bro edging me with ret pala
This top is so stupid you can't put frost mage tier s, sp a+ and ele, druid, lock, hunter,retri in tier a...
He did tho. Mad?
Unholy got heavy nerfs tho 10% all dmg and other stuff nerfed
Still s tier
Destro is S as for the last 20 years, everything else is inferior by a factor of 1,000,0000,000-
Hows Demo A🤯
Ele definately strong. Will be more of a train victim, because lightning spec has gained so much power, if people catch up to it, then we will see alot of really strong lightning ele gameplay in tww. Lavaburst itself has lost damage but it still buffs lightning damage which has gone up a massive amount now, and with that getting casttime reductions etc, the lightning builds can really do some crazy damage.
how do i play 6+ characters and somehow every spec i like to play is trash :/ already hesitant on this expansion cause retail wow is just dogshit. Dragonflight pvp barely kept me going until everyone i knew stopped playing.
MW definitely needs some buffs in arena. In arena it's definitely feels under equipped. Casted MW feels like it's being ignored - revival heals for barely anything in arena after 30% damp and coccoon drops like a wet tissue - biggest joke of a CD - if its this weak they should make it a 1min CD not 1min3
Idk cocoon is like a bubble, hitting into it is just stupid af imo.
Revival is the most disgusting ability in the game 🥰
Revival got a 15% overall healing buff, and in most situations you're using it for the magic immunity the PvP talent provides. It's fine, especially if you're taking the CD reduction talent which gets you to about a 2 min CD, insane into wizard comps.
Not sure what you're on about with caster MW being ignored, it's insanely good in blitz and peer into peace is very good against cleave teams, 6% DR while channeling SooM and the baseline healing of SooM is significantly better.
Not to mention we have more power in transcendence than we've ever had before and you cannot chase a caster mistweaver when we take roll snare.
I agree that Cocoon is pretty bad in TWW since it's self HP scaling now but it does scale with verse so it'll scale well into the xpac, I think the biggest problem with mistweaver overall is that we just don't have any kind of DR external. I think having thunder focus tea buff Life cocoon into a mini pain suppression would ensure it still feels like a "You aren't allowed to hit this person on this go" button.
@@ziggs123 I gotta agree with you. And big heal cds should suck at 30% dampening that’s the point
No way brah you just sit their channeling lmao fark Dat playstyle. Stay bad
@@jeff230394Average Solo shuffle player detected, room temp IQ.
BiSSmex. Say it with me... Bissmex. Spelled Bicmex, pronounced bissmex. Please 🙏
enhancement is A tier what u talking about
Frost on S with Fire on D is so wrong... i don't mind fire being weaker than Frost but cmon man... don't wanna play Frost or Arcane to compede..
fire was better spec for bfa, sl and most of the df what are u talking about?
"My gut is A"...
Ret is literally the worst melee in the game and it's not even remotely close lol.
man please earth shock is hitting for 3.5 million and lightning bolt build is hitting for 3.4 milly for ele. Just so yall know lmao
Whaaaaa????
He did it on a lvl 30 dummy, so he knows what he's talking about
@@leeroyjenkins3209 dayum son! bik boi numbrz
Lmao definitely done in solo que
I love your tier lists but you always inflate them! They should be moved down by one (not all but a lot)
I think 8sec stun on kidney shot is actually a buff on rogue for pro players, since that 2sec extra stunning window can hugely boost kill potential
its only for pve?
If it was for pvp ofc it would be a buff? Why wouldn't it be?
@@maagi1 8 sec stun is huge actually if its well chained with other cc. this change will be very make even more distinction between good & bad rogue players
@@yoiashi You clearly don't understand. If the change would be for pvp too, then it would be way too op for every player. But it's not. It's for pve only.
always fucking frost mage