Shop Talk 15: CNMG Inserts & Why I love Them
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- More carbide talk! This week I show you my favorite turning and facing inserts and why I go to them more so then other styles. I'll go over each one of my tool holders and how they are used.I also show a nice face mill that also uses the same style of insert.
Tool Holder part numbers....
Right hand turning & facing: MCLNR 124B
Left hand turning & facing MCLNL 124B
Right hand facing (odd corner): MCKNR-124B
Left hand facing (odd corner): MCKNL-124B
Chamfering and tuning (odd corner): MCHNN-164C
Engineers Black Book: amzn.to/2flnZ9N
Abom79 on Patreon: / abom79 - Наука та технологія
You might not realize it, but you are a great communicator and conveyor of knowledge. Your patience, modesty, and no nonsense approach is a perfect storm of what the average Joe needs to grasps things once thought unobtainable. Thank you for it.
John Strange To that, I would add that Adam is a natural teacher.
Thanks John!
So very true. That's why he's my favorite machining channel. Don't get me wrong, I get something from all of the others, but Adam's content it always *so* well done and very much appreciated for it.
Thanks Keith!
Ditto on all of the above!!!
good vid and great info. I really like that 'off corner' face mill.
Thanks Tony. I notice you seem to favor those "trigons"
U both are great
@@suryachikkam9625 NO!!! They’re not great. They’re the absolute best 😎
You wouldn’t happen to have a link to that disco tech outfit would ya?
Tony, I just thanked Adam for sharing his tips,,and wanted to also thank you as well for your tips on inserts & holders. Boy moving up from a SB 9c to a LB 17 was like traveling to a Foreign Country and not able speak it's language (@@) *! :)> Thanks to you both, now have the cheat sheet's printed out & in my tools box,,,wish me luck...My first attempt on the big lathe was a 10in rotor. Turned it into a 45rpm Willy record (@@), but now see I used the wrong insert, speed & feed,ect,,,,now to go practice what I learn from you guy's,,Bear.
Abom you are the man. Watching your videos has helped me establish myself as an inside machinist in an outside machinist world. Keep up the good work man!
“Full Abom Torque”
Love it! This is now in my lexicon!
One of my favourite contributors on you-tube. Clear,concise,no waffle.Thanks Abom
I was one of the Many that asked you to exsplain this topic, the approach and amount of detail your going into this is amazing!
Hi! i work with lathe machines here in Brazil and your vídeos are helping me a lot, both communication and of course about turning and facing, thanks a lot!
Whoa!!! The old Abom: down to earth, really useful, content. If only he was still doing videos like this. (Even responding to comments!)
Congratulations on the latest milestone, Abom79 you're the bomb!
Thanks Adam, that answered a bunch of questions, especially the torque on the insert. I really appreciate it.
Loving the shop talk series! Keep 'em coming! Thanks!
I'm glad you showed the plastic organizer. My home shop is automotive based, and I use those exact same organizers for nuts, bolts, washers, etc. As you mentioned, you can label the tops. I put 1" wide white tape over the compartments and label them with a Sharpie. That way, if I want to change the arrangement around, the tape comes off easily and can be reused.
Thanks for the full explanation of your insert and tooling selection Adam!
Saw very few of these TC inserts growing up. Tools were made from square tool steel & ground to shape. Some were even braised into tool holders.
Great information Adam. Thanks for all the work you put into your videos.
Great stuff Adam. Really valuable tool choice info for guys that don't have your experience.
Great! Exactly the kind of information I want to hear. You have become an excellent presenter and extemporaneous speaker.
Thanks Yan
Thanks for the education Adam. I love that black book, have two of them, great resource.
Always "heard" about the odd corners tools. Never took the time to figure out how to use them. Now you did the research for us! Thank you Adam....a real money saver!
They're a great investment if you use the MCLNR for turning.
Back in india we call "odd" corner as "rear" corner.
I'm using HSS only on my new 13" lathe but this was really great info for when I start needing carbide.
Excellent video Adam. Thanks from Mexico
Back from about 1984-2000, I operated a manual lathe at a small business where we made exercise equipment. I did all of the facing,turning,boring, drilling, tapping, parting, polishing....operations like that. The lathe was a Victor belt drive and was about 8 ft.long ( ??). I had an Aloris tool holder and used these CNMG 431's & 432's and a few 433's. I had other inserts for boring and parting jobs. By the time I left, I had accumulated many dozens of boxes of used inserts. I was all self taught; the owner knew just the very basics of how to operate the lathe. I had always wondered about the other 'odd corners' and wondered if those could have been used somehow. I never learned about these MCKNL (R) insert holders. Wow...sure could have made my work easier and gotten so much more use from the CNMG's...!!
Thank you a thousand time. Have been struggling to come up with a go to set of insert turning tools. super!!!
Usual excellent stuff from Abom.. I didn't know about the ways to use the minor cornors n CNMG. Thanks!
Great info Adam, we use the CNMG inserts quite a bit at work. looks like i need to pick up a MCKNR. thanks AJ
Glad you mentioned inserts for smaller lathes, as I have a smaller South Bend.
This is extremely helpful for cnc programming
Nice video Adam. I did the same a few years back buying the extra holders. Didn't know about the Mill Cutter, will have to look into that. Given the price of inserts now, we need to use every available cutting edge.
Thanks again Adam , Perfect vid man .. Very easy to understand.. Thumbs up !!
Late to this party but thanks for the mention about small lathe CCMT use - useful tidbits for those of us with lathes under 12" is much appreciated.
Thanks Adam. Quality info, very well explained
This is a great milling tool he refers to. For your reference, it is Dorian #REC15A-300-CN4-100
"15 deg. index cutter CNMG REC Mill Cutter, 1" Arbor, 3" cut diameter"
I've been watching machining videos for years now and this is the first time someone has stopped to describe what the letter initialism actually means. Thanks. You have made at least one doh-head a little less doh' today.
Use the CNMG 12 W CB CVD coating from Sandvik costs more. Crystal Texture coating makes them last forever.
here ya go: www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm
Very informative video, this will help in my precision machining abilities as a machinist
Good technical machine shop information, I found you through a KC insert search. You posted this years later, but little has changed since then ....Keep up the good content!
Thanks for tip on the low HP lathe inserts i need to try some
nice video adam i use the cnmg a lot for facing shafts i use pcknr holder for the rough cuts and mclnr for the finishing cut and making a radius on the raw shaft
I would love to have some beers and had a nice shop talk with u master. greetings from Argentina
thank you so much for this tutorial. After I bought my lathe I decided to go with cheap chinese cutting tools to start with. Now that I am a bit more savy on the lathe I want to buy the right stuff. This video is perfect .
I've been making rollform tooling for years, and the CNMG is probably my most insert, second would be VNMG. Usually have a lot of interesting profiles to cut. I do like to use CCMT inserts for boring though as they don't create as much tool pressure.
yaaaay... the abom torque popup is back!!
You guys love that don't ya
Haha, yes it's great. First time I wasn't watching too closely, thought it was "never go full APE ON torque". Works that way too I guess. Love the vids mainly because it's real learning, and fun or at least painless.
Re-watched this yesterday and Old Tony's, and you both helped me a ton. when have the SB 9jr, only used HSS tools,,now that I moved up to the LB 17 that came with 3/4 holders and several boxes of new inserts,, it became obvious that this was Greek until I watched you both, and then printed out the insert charts (name not declared) and Wala, my eye's where opened (@@),,, Thx Adam,,,7/15/21, Bear.
Dorian tool still makes those face mill tool holders that will take the CNMG431 inserts. "REC15A-400-CN4-150" is their part description number for the 4" facemill. It uses the 100 degree (wide angle) portion of the cutter that I usually throw away unused. You can find the ordering info from their "tool guide vol. 6" on page 114. Thanks Abom79 for the helpful info!
Nice video, like the closeup shots
Great vide friend, one other thing to note on the insert screw itself is the counterbore under it is designed to push that screw into the walls of the toolholder and is all the more reason not to go wild with its torque, unless you like inserts exploding mid cut that is.
Excellent episode. Good thinking to warn us guys with the smaller lathes there at the end--I might have gone shopping otherwise.
Thanks for sharing a lot of professional info on an amateur level. You clear up a lot of questions I didn't know I had. Hope to hear more on that Pacemaker. You're ignoring it.
Thanks Adam all that you do is much appreciated. Hoping you do a video on inserted boring bars. Thanks again.
Robert Lewis.
Such a great video. Thanks
I saw SNMG inserts too, able to use all 8 corners without needing special holders.
Great review & explanations.thanks.
Adam, thank you for sharing this informative video. I appreciate all your presentations. I began in tool and die way back in the late 1970's and got into drafting and design. Been away from machining for years and in the last ten years acquired a small milling machine and Southbend 9C. When I was in the shop we only used HSS. Rarely used carbide, so it is a bit of a mystery to me as far as what shape is best. This video was very helpful although my tool holders are 1/2".
I love my cnmg and vbmt. I do have trigon style but don't use them much. Also have the 55 degree positive and negative but don't use them much.
Came here from TOT. Didn't know that machinists do have a face. And what's best: They can even smile 😉
don't go full ebom tork, got it. thanks Ebom. I'm new to carbide and is a very good video on the topic. thanks again
Nice tip on the allen torque. My dad taught me that when I was a kid. Pinch torque . Same with thumb screws. Made to be tightened with thumb and index finger.
Good video , Im a NON machinist and just learning with a machine I happen to get at scrap metal price. So far I have made parts to fix the lathe🤪
I'm an industrial mechanic. I have the use of two lathes (a 17x80 Sharp and an 18x80 Summit) and a coup;e of vertical Bridgeport type mills. I'll never do enough machining to have your level of experience. You are so good at explaining what you do and why that it bails me out when I'm tackling machine jobs that are outside of my experience. What would Abom do? Sometimes it really saves the day. Thanks.
Coming back to see some of your older content is pretty great, not so much product pushing.
Useful information for sure, thanks Adam.....👍👍👍
Thanks adam, real education appreciate this greatly
really solid explanation
in my turning center I run wnmg, but using all the sides of cnmg is the only way to go on manual turning,
Such interesting! Thanks again!!
I like TNMG for a lot of work because it lets me move the holder around for a lot of different angles. But I use this one too. It’s got a stronger tip.
the term "FULL ABOM TORQUE" is been in use in our shop
Great information! Thanks!
thanks for answering my question, great
For heavy turning the CNMG's are great. Probably the strongest shape available in a laydown type insert. For my home shop I prefer the triangle or trigon inserts because I get 6 cutting edges instead of 4. TNMG and WNMG are great for general turning duties. I also like the TNGG (ground, sharp edge) for finishing. They seem to give a finish very similar to HSS with the convenience of indexable tooling.
Great Video. A lot of Info.
Never go full Abom torque... that cracked me up. and loved the image popup too.
Hi Adam. Great video. I'd like to know why you prefer negative rake tools-advantages and disadvantages. Can they be used on a 12" lathe and how. Some negative rake tool holders were given to me and I would like to us them. Thanx for all you do.
I actually use the CNMG 432 on my Grizzly. what is did was to actually mill a dovetail in the holder and fit it straight to the quick change base. I have had just as good results with the negative rake inserts as the positive rake inserts, the truth is you can only cut as much depth as horsepower and rigidity of your machine
Have any of you found a good way to make sure you are not using an edge on the insert that you had previously decided was no longer good? I have tried marking them with a sharpie, but chips and/or cutting oil makes that less than useful.
Also, Adam, thank you so much for your efforts and patience to help explain this stuff.
Very helpful. Thanks.
I used to use a lot of the triangle inserts TNMG because of their ease of access and the fact I could use all sides on one tool. I now use the CNMG inserts a lot more because they provide a much more stable cut and you can remove a lot more material more quickly.
I still use the tnmg inserts, but they are for brute force! we still have a bunch of inserts and I don't mind if they get busted. I like the MTENN tool because you can easily use it for weld preps, chamfers, undercuts, and even course threading.
Abom79
Lots of options on inserts because they are all great at certain things. I don't have any of those sharp diamond inserts but would love to add some to my arsenal.
I did a lot of research and talking to manufacturer's and came up with 6 in lb for screw torque which is most likely what you're getting the way you are doing it.
Read x amount time later!!!
Congrats on 100k.
Very informative video - thanks! I'm a beginner in the field and appreciate these kinds of educational video. My lathe came with 1/2"-sized tools, uses inserts like CCMT21.5, Boring bar is CCMT32.5 Can you tell me about that pocket-guide-sized handbook that has the insert info in it? That looks pretty useful ! Where might I find one of those?
Hai abom I am from India, and my name is Joseph, I have a flat belt bush bearing slow speed lathe. I've already using the cnmg tools in my lathe and get better results. your videos are help me. Thank you ,thank a lot ,god bless you
I might get a raise tomorrow tnx from your tips
thanks for sharing
Thanks Adam.
They only time i didint use cnmg was when i machined big heavy alumium parts,cnmg would work with aluminium but i always used a cnmp kenmetal,just works very good for aluminum
DSSNR(L) holder is the best!!!, all 8 points used, facing, turning and chanfering all in one...the greatest for CNMG INSERTS, not so good for corners. Still the best. Nice vid!!!
Just a reminder that when these inserts start to break down the sound of the cut will tell you to get the tool off the work before it shatters. The shrieking sound it makes when it shatters is deafening. This has happened to me turning steel cams tack welded together for turning purposes on a 56 inch kick Bullard. Running dry can make them turn very red during heavy cutting. I use to put coolant in a Windex bottle and shoot coolant on the tool to keep it cool. This was a belt driven Bullard with a top speed of 60 RPM's.
Hey Adam, I'm very much enjoying this recent series. Could you talk a bit about how you judge when to change a cutting edge? Thanks.
Not a bad suggestion there, something I deal with daily
I share your 'pop-ups' of Abom Torque with my wife. She gets a chuckle out of those!!
Abom79, entertaining the whole family since 2013
Nice info. It looks like an sckcr is a common toolholder designation for those of us on the smaller benchtop lathes who are using ccmt inserts.
Great! It's some I don't have other then the boring bar I use. I need to do some research on those as well
Thanks for all the good info. Sorry if its been asked, but have you ever used any of the HSS inserts that are available?
I'm with This Old Tony on the off corner insert holders.
Woody
The voice-over stuff is good!
I have a mic on standby when needed
Really good information Adam. Can I make a suggestion in that you put something, a towel, cardboard, to give a lighter background so we (I), can see the items a little easier?
Appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us!! I do have one of the small belt driven lathes, so the neutral rake is probably the best choice for me when I get some more experience.
Razor!
I'll keep that in mind Razor. Maybe the wood grain is getting a little too dark? I do have a new camera I'll be putting to use soon to help with the Micra shots.
Closing in on 100K subs man, that is awesome! Wish I could subscribe more than once, LOL! Aloha...Chuck
adam great video.
Super! Thanks
Thank you so much! I've been seeing these acronyms in shop videos (yours and others) for years, but nobody ever decoded them for me.
A link to a photo of the frame at 2:33 would be much appreciated.
Thanks, A.
very informative!
M really refers to a tollerance these inserts have to be made alike in terms of cutting face, length and with to fit any holder you wanna use.
Refering to your question I mostly think Kennametal are born on selling their stuff inserts as well as their holders and they found a way to present you odd corners so you´ll buy their holders.
(All the talk below is for cnmg cemented carbide inserts. I am used to working with steel that has or has been already hardened for machine building. Everything else is stainless steel going up to corrosive resistant steel. Anything else is a hobby that may earn me some buck by putting someones combined harvester back in action.)
I´m using Sandvik holders on those 80° inserts for roughing that supports a cutting depth from the corner that you were refering to in the first place to the corner that you were calling "the odd corner" which can be 2-6 mm depending on what the machine can handle. For finishing I´m all about 55,° 0.4mm radius inserts.
So if you have to turn down 0.5 or even 1mm from the outer diameter, just don´t bother messing around with 80° inserts. 55° with 0.4mm radius do 0.25mm cutting depth with ease.
Also I agree, to keep some 80°inserts for the use you advised. Flame cutted stuff and any interrupted cut you´d need those more flat attack angle to your surface.
Thanks for the great video Adam. When you finish with the inserts would you consider a series about carbide vs hss is a Bridgeport type mill? I've only used hss but keep getting suggestions to try carbide. I just don't know if it's worth it in the Bridgeport.
I'll keep that one on the list