You might not realize it, but you are a great communicator and conveyor of knowledge. Your patience, modesty, and no nonsense approach is a perfect storm of what the average Joe needs to grasps things once thought unobtainable. Thank you for it.
So very true. That's why he's my favorite machining channel. Don't get me wrong, I get something from all of the others, but Adam's content it always *so* well done and very much appreciated for it.
Tony, I just thanked Adam for sharing his tips,,and wanted to also thank you as well for your tips on inserts & holders. Boy moving up from a SB 9c to a LB 17 was like traveling to a Foreign Country and not able speak it's language (@@) *! :)> Thanks to you both, now have the cheat sheet's printed out & in my tools box,,,wish me luck...My first attempt on the big lathe was a 10in rotor. Turned it into a 45rpm Willy record (@@), but now see I used the wrong insert, speed & feed,ect,,,,now to go practice what I learn from you guy's,,Bear.
Abom you are the man. Watching your videos has helped me establish myself as an inside machinist in an outside machinist world. Keep up the good work man!
Always "heard" about the odd corners tools. Never took the time to figure out how to use them. Now you did the research for us! Thank you Adam....a real money saver!
Hi! i work with lathe machines here in Brazil and your vídeos are helping me a lot, both communication and of course about turning and facing, thanks a lot!
I'm glad you showed the plastic organizer. My home shop is automotive based, and I use those exact same organizers for nuts, bolts, washers, etc. As you mentioned, you can label the tops. I put 1" wide white tape over the compartments and label them with a Sharpie. That way, if I want to change the arrangement around, the tape comes off easily and can be reused.
I've been watching machining videos for years now and this is the first time someone has stopped to describe what the letter initialism actually means. Thanks. You have made at least one doh-head a little less doh' today.
Haha, yes it's great. First time I wasn't watching too closely, thought it was "never go full APE ON torque". Works that way too I guess. Love the vids mainly because it's real learning, and fun or at least painless.
Back from about 1984-2000, I operated a manual lathe at a small business where we made exercise equipment. I did all of the facing,turning,boring, drilling, tapping, parting, polishing....operations like that. The lathe was a Victor belt drive and was about 8 ft.long ( ??). I had an Aloris tool holder and used these CNMG 431's & 432's and a few 433's. I had other inserts for boring and parting jobs. By the time I left, I had accumulated many dozens of boxes of used inserts. I was all self taught; the owner knew just the very basics of how to operate the lathe. I had always wondered about the other 'odd corners' and wondered if those could have been used somehow. I never learned about these MCKNL (R) insert holders. Wow...sure could have made my work easier and gotten so much more use from the CNMG's...!!
Good technical machine shop information, I found you through a KC insert search. You posted this years later, but little has changed since then ....Keep up the good content!
Nice video Adam. I did the same a few years back buying the extra holders. Didn't know about the Mill Cutter, will have to look into that. Given the price of inserts now, we need to use every available cutting edge.
Thanks for sharing a lot of professional info on an amateur level. You clear up a lot of questions I didn't know I had. Hope to hear more on that Pacemaker. You're ignoring it.
Great vide friend, one other thing to note on the insert screw itself is the counterbore under it is designed to push that screw into the walls of the toolholder and is all the more reason not to go wild with its torque, unless you like inserts exploding mid cut that is.
I use the obtuse corners for crappy jobs like facing brake discs. Had loads of inserts with those corners not touched. They now all got a new lease of life, every scrap insert had four unused tips.
Dorian tool still makes those face mill tool holders that will take the CNMG431 inserts. "REC15A-400-CN4-150" is their part description number for the 4" facemill. It uses the 100 degree (wide angle) portion of the cutter that I usually throw away unused. You can find the ordering info from their "tool guide vol. 6" on page 114. Thanks Abom79 for the helpful info!
thank you so much for this tutorial. After I bought my lathe I decided to go with cheap chinese cutting tools to start with. Now that I am a bit more savy on the lathe I want to buy the right stuff. This video is perfect .
Re-watched this yesterday and Old Tony's, and you both helped me a ton. when have the SB 9jr, only used HSS tools,,now that I moved up to the LB 17 that came with 3/4 holders and several boxes of new inserts,, it became obvious that this was Greek until I watched you both, and then printed out the insert charts (name not declared) and Wala, my eye's where opened (@@),,, Thx Adam,,,7/15/21, Bear.
Thank you so much! I've been seeing these acronyms in shop videos (yours and others) for years, but nobody ever decoded them for me. A link to a photo of the frame at 2:33 would be much appreciated.
I'm an industrial mechanic. I have the use of two lathes (a 17x80 Sharp and an 18x80 Summit) and a coup;e of vertical Bridgeport type mills. I'll never do enough machining to have your level of experience. You are so good at explaining what you do and why that it bails me out when I'm tackling machine jobs that are outside of my experience. What would Abom do? Sometimes it really saves the day. Thanks.
Nice tip on the allen torque. My dad taught me that when I was a kid. Pinch torque . Same with thumb screws. Made to be tightened with thumb and index finger. Good video , Im a NON machinist and just learning with a machine I happen to get at scrap metal price. So far I have made parts to fix the lathe🤪
I used to use a lot of the triangle inserts TNMG because of their ease of access and the fact I could use all sides on one tool. I now use the CNMG inserts a lot more because they provide a much more stable cut and you can remove a lot more material more quickly.
I still use the tnmg inserts, but they are for brute force! we still have a bunch of inserts and I don't mind if they get busted. I like the MTENN tool because you can easily use it for weld preps, chamfers, undercuts, and even course threading.
Abom79 Lots of options on inserts because they are all great at certain things. I don't have any of those sharp diamond inserts but would love to add some to my arsenal.
This is a great milling tool he refers to. For your reference, it is Dorian #REC15A-300-CN4-100 "15 deg. index cutter CNMG REC Mill Cutter, 1" Arbor, 3" cut diameter"
Adam, thank you for sharing this informative video. I appreciate all your presentations. I began in tool and die way back in the late 1970's and got into drafting and design. Been away from machining for years and in the last ten years acquired a small milling machine and Southbend 9C. When I was in the shop we only used HSS. Rarely used carbide, so it is a bit of a mystery to me as far as what shape is best. This video was very helpful although my tool holders are 1/2".
I've been making rollform tooling for years, and the CNMG is probably my most insert, second would be VNMG. Usually have a lot of interesting profiles to cut. I do like to use CCMT inserts for boring though as they don't create as much tool pressure.
nice video adam i use the cnmg a lot for facing shafts i use pcknr holder for the rough cuts and mclnr for the finishing cut and making a radius on the raw shaft
DSSNR(L) holder is the best!!!, all 8 points used, facing, turning and chanfering all in one...the greatest for CNMG INSERTS, not so good for corners. Still the best. Nice vid!!!
For heavy turning the CNMG's are great. Probably the strongest shape available in a laydown type insert. For my home shop I prefer the triangle or trigon inserts because I get 6 cutting edges instead of 4. TNMG and WNMG are great for general turning duties. I also like the TNGG (ground, sharp edge) for finishing. They seem to give a finish very similar to HSS with the convenience of indexable tooling.
Hai abom I am from India, and my name is Joseph, I have a flat belt bush bearing slow speed lathe. I've already using the cnmg tools in my lathe and get better results. your videos are help me. Thank you ,thank a lot ,god bless you
The torque on the insert clamping screws are different for different holders. Some holders require up to 5Nm, and that is more than you can crank out of the short end of an allen key.
I think a bit of discretion applies here. I know not every tool is going to use the same hardware and torque values, but what i was talking about was for those particular turning tools I shown in my video. I've done my fair share of over tightening the screws resulting in stripped out hex sockets. I've been tightening them just like I shown you and have yet to have a tool fail me because of it.
Really good information Adam. Can I make a suggestion in that you put something, a towel, cardboard, to give a lighter background so we (I), can see the items a little easier? Appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us!! I do have one of the small belt driven lathes, so the neutral rake is probably the best choice for me when I get some more experience. Razor!
I'll keep that in mind Razor. Maybe the wood grain is getting a little too dark? I do have a new camera I'll be putting to use soon to help with the Micra shots.
Just a reminder that when these inserts start to break down the sound of the cut will tell you to get the tool off the work before it shatters. The shrieking sound it makes when it shatters is deafening. This has happened to me turning steel cams tack welded together for turning purposes on a 56 inch kick Bullard. Running dry can make them turn very red during heavy cutting. I use to put coolant in a Windex bottle and shoot coolant on the tool to keep it cool. This was a belt driven Bullard with a top speed of 60 RPM's.
Hey abom I just acquired an 18x60 geared headed lathe with 7.5hp. A 12 inch 3 jaw scroll chuck and a 16" Cushman 4 jaw chuck never used still in the pallet box. My question is it came with aloris qctp cxb. What cutters should I start with. It has adequate power and speed is 25rpm to 2100rpm.
A question I've had when searching inserts, is there any tolerance designation sold other than M? I guess even in my opinion I wouldn't pay more for smaller tolerances so I'm guessing the industry has accepted it to the point no one manufactures to any other tolerance.
lots of good info here adam. the world of carbide inserts can be quite confusing. i particularly liked your comment on using carbide on small home shop type machines. it can be quite difficult to to hit your number when using carbide due to the forces exerted on the lathe. my personal opinion is that most home shop applications would be better off using hss. but it sure is impressive watching you make chips.
The smaller HP machines work well for hss, especially the older generation of machines. You can use carbide, but try to stick with neutral rake tools, or brazed on with sharp cutting edges.
Take a look at ground and polished CCGT inserts. Razor sharp and great for Aluminium and finish turning steel. Most of the negative tales about carbide on small machines are based on older grades of carbide that wouldn't hold a sharp edge and so needed excessive tool pressure for light machines. Carbide technology has come a long way.
Paul Compton Plus one for that call out Paul CCGT Ali is my go insert it's the normal CCMT that gives me problems as I only have a couple it's no worry I use the CCGT for all my work with care they are ok Stuart
Hi Adam. Great video. I'd like to know why you prefer negative rake tools-advantages and disadvantages. Can they be used on a 12" lathe and how. Some negative rake tool holders were given to me and I would like to us them. Thanx for all you do.
M really refers to a tollerance these inserts have to be made alike in terms of cutting face, length and with to fit any holder you wanna use. Refering to your question I mostly think Kennametal are born on selling their stuff inserts as well as their holders and they found a way to present you odd corners so you´ll buy their holders. (All the talk below is for cnmg cemented carbide inserts. I am used to working with steel that has or has been already hardened for machine building. Everything else is stainless steel going up to corrosive resistant steel. Anything else is a hobby that may earn me some buck by putting someones combined harvester back in action.) I´m using Sandvik holders on those 80° inserts for roughing that supports a cutting depth from the corner that you were refering to in the first place to the corner that you were calling "the odd corner" which can be 2-6 mm depending on what the machine can handle. For finishing I´m all about 55,° 0.4mm radius inserts. So if you have to turn down 0.5 or even 1mm from the outer diameter, just don´t bother messing around with 80° inserts. 55° with 0.4mm radius do 0.25mm cutting depth with ease. Also I agree, to keep some 80°inserts for the use you advised. Flame cutted stuff and any interrupted cut you´d need those more flat attack angle to your surface.
I actually use the CNMG 432 on my Grizzly. what is did was to actually mill a dovetail in the holder and fit it straight to the quick change base. I have had just as good results with the negative rake inserts as the positive rake inserts, the truth is you can only cut as much depth as horsepower and rigidity of your machine
I did a lot of research and talking to manufacturer's and came up with 6 in lb for screw torque which is most likely what you're getting the way you are doing it.
Adam, I don't know if this fits the program but woul you please discuss. lathe tooling systems like Top Notch. Tool Flo, etc the porpietory systems cot threading, grooving, etc. And the CNC people use a "dog bone" insert for profiling I think would be very handy. for V-belt grooves. finishing non-working diameters and faces at higher feed rates, These inserts are expensive and if pirchased as part of a tooling system the tools to hold them could be minimised. BTW, I love the CMNG insert too. l bet I machined a barge load of pumps and valves over the years on VBM's. My favorite for stainless and nickel alloys was Ceratip ceramic CMNG inserts. They really held up for long bores and facing cuts. I use Trigon mostly on my home lathe. Not sure why; maybe a weak moment when I splurged on lathe tooling 20 years ago.
Have any of you found a good way to make sure you are not using an edge on the insert that you had previously decided was no longer good? I have tried marking them with a sharpie, but chips and/or cutting oil makes that less than useful. Also, Adam, thank you so much for your efforts and patience to help explain this stuff.
They only time i didint use cnmg was when i machined big heavy alumium parts,cnmg would work with aluminium but i always used a cnmp kenmetal,just works very good for aluminum
oh these carbide inserts that you were using to face off the hydraulic nut, it looked like you were taking about 3/16 to 3/8s each pass, what was your spindle rpm? why no coolant? Was the nut mild steel?
Adam, I have and insert same type. I turn bowls and the what I want to know is how can you tell what size you have type etc. I order my metal lathe type by 10 to a pack. From over seas , Amazon etc. For a fraction of the cost of what they want for one.. Do you have a contact info where I can take a picture of the tool I'm using and insert from different angles. ?? I also ordered the black book..... Thank you ,
I have several tool holders for which I don't know the proper insert. Two Aloris AXA, and a facing head or shell mill (not sure which). How would I go about determining exactly which inserts to use in each of them? (I know the basic shapes: triangular for the Aloris tool holders, and square on the shell). I can determine the size of the IC, but don't know where to start on the other features of the inserts. This is a problem for many of us hobbyists, because we buy tool holders on eBay without knowing exactly what we are getting sometimes, and we would like to make use of these tools (better than admitting that we goofed when we bought them!).
best info I can give you is to have a book on hand to match up the shape and size of the pocket or tools. The book I use has other pages showing insert shapes and there designations, including milling. I plan to go into milling in another episode.
I do have the Black Book as you've shown in this series as well as URLs for several manufacturers' definition pages, but nothing has popped out to say, "This is it." I may take a series of close-ups of the milling head and post them in the Facebook group. I'll try to get scale and angles clearly shown. Thanks for considering my problem, and maybe you will show something that will help when you get to the milling inserts.
Hey Adam,I use a bench top lathe,(not mini lathe)and cut a lot of aluminum with 1/2" tool holders.what would be a good style insert for smooth finish and get rid of long stringy birds nest type chips?
large radius = wider chip; slower feed = thinner chip. wide and thin = breaks more easily. Round = doesn't leave a sharp divot each revolution for smoother apparent finish as each edge of the radius is a tangent to the previous cut.
Adam, What does it mean when it says something like "CC.32.5"? I have a SB 13" by 5 and I'm looking at getting a pair (left and right hand) tool holders. Given your feed back it looks like a CCMT is a better insert choice. When I'm looking though I see things like "CC.32.5" and I can not find a chart that explains what it means when there is nothing past the first two letters. For example: Kennametal - SCLC, Right Hand, 5 Degree Lead Angle, 5/8 inch Shank Height, 5/8 Inch Shank width, CC.32.5 Insert Compatibility Indexable Turning Toolholder. The picture shows a toolholder with a pin but no clamp of a CCMT looking insert... Thanks,
Does the effective rake angel end up being similar to CCMT (7 degrees)? If so, does that mean similar power requirements or does it require more HP due to the top of the insert being inclined with respect to the work piece?
I think the CCMT inserts are a neutral rake tool, but may have positive angles molded into them. I havn't used them enough to know off hand, I need to refer to the books.
Do those inserts work great on the side corner for interupted facing simply because the wider angle on the tip makes it stronger or is there an additional advantage to the geometry?
There is an advantage to the angle too, like how the mcknr tool actually pushes the workpiece against the chuck, where the mclnr is trying to pull it out, because of the leading angle of the cut....when facing.
I have a subject, I'd be obliged if you could cover in a future Shop Talk. I've seen videos, where the operator refers to his lathe as an "engine lathe". I've also seen a video advertising a lathe, which described it as a "gunsmithing lathe". Could you please do a Shop Talk, where you explain the differences between the various types of lathes. Thanks
You might not realize it, but you are a great communicator and conveyor of knowledge. Your patience, modesty, and no nonsense approach is a perfect storm of what the average Joe needs to grasps things once thought unobtainable. Thank you for it.
John Strange To that, I would add that Adam is a natural teacher.
Thanks John!
So very true. That's why he's my favorite machining channel. Don't get me wrong, I get something from all of the others, but Adam's content it always *so* well done and very much appreciated for it.
Thanks Keith!
Ditto on all of the above!!!
good vid and great info. I really like that 'off corner' face mill.
Thanks Tony. I notice you seem to favor those "trigons"
U both are great
@@suryachikkam9625 NO!!! They’re not great. They’re the absolute best 😎
You wouldn’t happen to have a link to that disco tech outfit would ya?
Tony, I just thanked Adam for sharing his tips,,and wanted to also thank you as well for your tips on inserts & holders. Boy moving up from a SB 9c to a LB 17 was like traveling to a Foreign Country and not able speak it's language (@@) *! :)> Thanks to you both, now have the cheat sheet's printed out & in my tools box,,,wish me luck...My first attempt on the big lathe was a 10in rotor. Turned it into a 45rpm Willy record (@@), but now see I used the wrong insert, speed & feed,ect,,,,now to go practice what I learn from you guy's,,Bear.
Whoa!!! The old Abom: down to earth, really useful, content. If only he was still doing videos like this. (Even responding to comments!)
“Full Abom Torque”
Love it! This is now in my lexicon!
Abom you are the man. Watching your videos has helped me establish myself as an inside machinist in an outside machinist world. Keep up the good work man!
Always "heard" about the odd corners tools. Never took the time to figure out how to use them. Now you did the research for us! Thank you Adam....a real money saver!
They're a great investment if you use the MCLNR for turning.
Back in india we call "odd" corner as "rear" corner.
I was one of the Many that asked you to exsplain this topic, the approach and amount of detail your going into this is amazing!
Thanks for the full explanation of your insert and tooling selection Adam!
Hi! i work with lathe machines here in Brazil and your vídeos are helping me a lot, both communication and of course about turning and facing, thanks a lot!
One of my favourite contributors on you-tube. Clear,concise,no waffle.Thanks Abom
I'm glad you showed the plastic organizer. My home shop is automotive based, and I use those exact same organizers for nuts, bolts, washers, etc. As you mentioned, you can label the tops. I put 1" wide white tape over the compartments and label them with a Sharpie. That way, if I want to change the arrangement around, the tape comes off easily and can be reused.
I've been watching machining videos for years now and this is the first time someone has stopped to describe what the letter initialism actually means. Thanks. You have made at least one doh-head a little less doh' today.
Use the CNMG 12 W CB CVD coating from Sandvik costs more. Crystal Texture coating makes them last forever.
here ya go: www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm
Great! Exactly the kind of information I want to hear. You have become an excellent presenter and extemporaneous speaker.
Thanks Yan
Congratulations on the latest milestone, Abom79 you're the bomb!
Thanks Adam, that answered a bunch of questions, especially the torque on the insert. I really appreciate it.
yaaaay... the abom torque popup is back!!
You guys love that don't ya
Haha, yes it's great. First time I wasn't watching too closely, thought it was "never go full APE ON torque". Works that way too I guess. Love the vids mainly because it's real learning, and fun or at least painless.
Great stuff Adam. Really valuable tool choice info for guys that don't have your experience.
I'm a beginner and you make it very clear how to understand lathe tooling.
Back from about 1984-2000, I operated a manual lathe at a small business where we made exercise equipment. I did all of the facing,turning,boring, drilling, tapping, parting, polishing....operations like that. The lathe was a Victor belt drive and was about 8 ft.long ( ??). I had an Aloris tool holder and used these CNMG 431's & 432's and a few 433's. I had other inserts for boring and parting jobs. By the time I left, I had accumulated many dozens of boxes of used inserts. I was all self taught; the owner knew just the very basics of how to operate the lathe. I had always wondered about the other 'odd corners' and wondered if those could have been used somehow. I never learned about these MCKNL (R) insert holders. Wow...sure could have made my work easier and gotten so much more use from the CNMG's...!!
Good technical machine shop information, I found you through a KC insert search. You posted this years later, but little has changed since then ....Keep up the good content!
Usual excellent stuff from Abom.. I didn't know about the ways to use the minor cornors n CNMG. Thanks!
Saw very few of these TC inserts growing up. Tools were made from square tool steel & ground to shape. Some were even braised into tool holders.
Thank you a thousand time. Have been struggling to come up with a go to set of insert turning tools. super!!!
Nice video Adam. I did the same a few years back buying the extra holders. Didn't know about the Mill Cutter, will have to look into that. Given the price of inserts now, we need to use every available cutting edge.
Thanks for the education Adam. I love that black book, have two of them, great resource.
Thanks for sharing a lot of professional info on an amateur level. You clear up a lot of questions I didn't know I had. Hope to hear more on that Pacemaker. You're ignoring it.
I'm using HSS only on my new 13" lathe but this was really great info for when I start needing carbide.
in my turning center I run wnmg, but using all the sides of cnmg is the only way to go on manual turning,
Great vide friend, one other thing to note on the insert screw itself is the counterbore under it is designed to push that screw into the walls of the toolholder and is all the more reason not to go wild with its torque, unless you like inserts exploding mid cut that is.
Loving the shop talk series! Keep 'em coming! Thanks!
I use the obtuse corners for crappy jobs like facing brake discs. Had loads of inserts with those corners not touched. They now all got a new lease of life, every scrap insert had four unused tips.
Late to this party but thanks for the mention about small lathe CCMT use - useful tidbits for those of us with lathes under 12" is much appreciated.
Dorian tool still makes those face mill tool holders that will take the CNMG431 inserts. "REC15A-400-CN4-150" is their part description number for the 4" facemill. It uses the 100 degree (wide angle) portion of the cutter that I usually throw away unused. You can find the ordering info from their "tool guide vol. 6" on page 114. Thanks Abom79 for the helpful info!
thank you so much for this tutorial. After I bought my lathe I decided to go with cheap chinese cutting tools to start with. Now that I am a bit more savy on the lathe I want to buy the right stuff. This video is perfect .
Re-watched this yesterday and Old Tony's, and you both helped me a ton. when have the SB 9jr, only used HSS tools,,now that I moved up to the LB 17 that came with 3/4 holders and several boxes of new inserts,, it became obvious that this was Greek until I watched you both, and then printed out the insert charts (name not declared) and Wala, my eye's where opened (@@),,, Thx Adam,,,7/15/21, Bear.
Excellent episode. Good thinking to warn us guys with the smaller lathes there at the end--I might have gone shopping otherwise.
Thank you so much! I've been seeing these acronyms in shop videos (yours and others) for years, but nobody ever decoded them for me.
A link to a photo of the frame at 2:33 would be much appreciated.
Glad you mentioned inserts for smaller lathes, as I have a smaller South Bend.
I'm an industrial mechanic. I have the use of two lathes (a 17x80 Sharp and an 18x80 Summit) and a coup;e of vertical Bridgeport type mills. I'll never do enough machining to have your level of experience. You are so good at explaining what you do and why that it bails me out when I'm tackling machine jobs that are outside of my experience. What would Abom do? Sometimes it really saves the day. Thanks.
Very informative video, this will help in my precision machining abilities as a machinist
Where do I find the links you mentioned in the video?
Nice tip on the allen torque. My dad taught me that when I was a kid. Pinch torque . Same with thumb screws. Made to be tightened with thumb and index finger.
Good video , Im a NON machinist and just learning with a machine I happen to get at scrap metal price. So far I have made parts to fix the lathe🤪
I would love to have some beers and had a nice shop talk with u master. greetings from Argentina
I used to use a lot of the triangle inserts TNMG because of their ease of access and the fact I could use all sides on one tool. I now use the CNMG inserts a lot more because they provide a much more stable cut and you can remove a lot more material more quickly.
I still use the tnmg inserts, but they are for brute force! we still have a bunch of inserts and I don't mind if they get busted. I like the MTENN tool because you can easily use it for weld preps, chamfers, undercuts, and even course threading.
Abom79
Lots of options on inserts because they are all great at certain things. I don't have any of those sharp diamond inserts but would love to add some to my arsenal.
This is a great milling tool he refers to. For your reference, it is Dorian #REC15A-300-CN4-100
"15 deg. index cutter CNMG REC Mill Cutter, 1" Arbor, 3" cut diameter"
Adam, thank you for sharing this informative video. I appreciate all your presentations. I began in tool and die way back in the late 1970's and got into drafting and design. Been away from machining for years and in the last ten years acquired a small milling machine and Southbend 9C. When I was in the shop we only used HSS. Rarely used carbide, so it is a bit of a mystery to me as far as what shape is best. This video was very helpful although my tool holders are 1/2".
Thanks Adam all that you do is much appreciated. Hoping you do a video on inserted boring bars. Thanks again.
Robert Lewis.
Great information Adam. Thanks for all the work you put into your videos.
I saw SNMG inserts too, able to use all 8 corners without needing special holders.
I've been making rollform tooling for years, and the CNMG is probably my most insert, second would be VNMG. Usually have a lot of interesting profiles to cut. I do like to use CCMT inserts for boring though as they don't create as much tool pressure.
Came here from TOT. Didn't know that machinists do have a face. And what's best: They can even smile 😉
nice video adam i use the cnmg a lot for facing shafts i use pcknr holder for the rough cuts and mclnr for the finishing cut and making a radius on the raw shaft
DSSNR(L) holder is the best!!!, all 8 points used, facing, turning and chanfering all in one...the greatest for CNMG INSERTS, not so good for corners. Still the best. Nice vid!!!
Great info Adam, we use the CNMG inserts quite a bit at work. looks like i need to pick up a MCKNR. thanks AJ
Excellent video Adam. Thanks from Mexico
For heavy turning the CNMG's are great. Probably the strongest shape available in a laydown type insert. For my home shop I prefer the triangle or trigon inserts because I get 6 cutting edges instead of 4. TNMG and WNMG are great for general turning duties. I also like the TNGG (ground, sharp edge) for finishing. They seem to give a finish very similar to HSS with the convenience of indexable tooling.
Good video!
Hello sir,
Could you pls provide more information about the tool geometry of CNMG432?
Hello, how are you? Thank you for these tips. Can you explain to me what is the difference between the yellow and the black piece? Thank you
Hai abom I am from India, and my name is Joseph, I have a flat belt bush bearing slow speed lathe. I've already using the cnmg tools in my lathe and get better results. your videos are help me. Thank you ,thank a lot ,god bless you
This is extremely helpful for cnc programming
The torque on the insert clamping screws are different for different holders. Some holders require up to 5Nm, and that is more than you can crank out of the short end of an allen key.
Probably they are if they have a bigger screw . But a 5mm (aprox 3/16) other smaller, 5nm si to much for daily use
I think a bit of discretion applies here.
I know not every tool is going to use the same hardware and torque values, but what i was talking about was for those particular turning tools I shown in my video. I've done my fair share of over tightening the screws resulting in stripped out hex sockets. I've been tightening them just like I shown you and have yet to have a tool fail me because of it.
I love my cnmg and vbmt. I do have trigon style but don't use them much. Also have the 55 degree positive and negative but don't use them much.
Really good information Adam. Can I make a suggestion in that you put something, a towel, cardboard, to give a lighter background so we (I), can see the items a little easier?
Appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us!! I do have one of the small belt driven lathes, so the neutral rake is probably the best choice for me when I get some more experience.
Razor!
I'll keep that in mind Razor. Maybe the wood grain is getting a little too dark? I do have a new camera I'll be putting to use soon to help with the Micra shots.
I share your 'pop-ups' of Abom Torque with my wife. She gets a chuckle out of those!!
Abom79, entertaining the whole family since 2013
Just a reminder that when these inserts start to break down the sound of the cut will tell you to get the tool off the work before it shatters. The shrieking sound it makes when it shatters is deafening. This has happened to me turning steel cams tack welded together for turning purposes on a 56 inch kick Bullard. Running dry can make them turn very red during heavy cutting. I use to put coolant in a Windex bottle and shoot coolant on the tool to keep it cool. This was a belt driven Bullard with a top speed of 60 RPM's.
Nice info. It looks like an sckcr is a common toolholder designation for those of us on the smaller benchtop lathes who are using ccmt inserts.
Great! It's some I don't have other then the boring bar I use. I need to do some research on those as well
can you talk about the different grade of inserts and what each is used for thank you
Hey abom I just acquired an 18x60 geared headed lathe with 7.5hp. A 12 inch 3 jaw scroll chuck and a 16" Cushman 4 jaw chuck never used still in the pallet box. My question is it came with aloris qctp cxb. What cutters should I start with. It has adequate power and speed is 25rpm to 2100rpm.
Thanks again Adam , Perfect vid man .. Very easy to understand.. Thumbs up !!
Hey Adam, I'm very much enjoying this recent series. Could you talk a bit about how you judge when to change a cutting edge? Thanks.
Not a bad suggestion there, something I deal with daily
What was your depth of cut you were using when facing with the 100 degree (odd) side of the CNMG inserts?
A question I've had when searching inserts, is there any tolerance designation sold other than M? I guess even in my opinion I wouldn't pay more for smaller tolerances so I'm guessing the industry has accepted it to the point no one manufactures to any other tolerance.
What is the max size D.O.C can you get with the odd & even corners ?
lots of good info here adam. the world of carbide inserts can be quite confusing. i particularly liked your comment on using carbide on small home shop type machines. it can be quite difficult to to hit your number when using carbide due to the forces exerted on the lathe. my personal opinion is that most home shop applications would be better off using hss. but it sure is impressive watching you make chips.
The smaller HP machines work well for hss, especially the older generation of machines. You can use carbide, but try to stick with neutral rake tools, or brazed on with sharp cutting edges.
Take a look at ground and polished CCGT inserts. Razor sharp and great for Aluminium and finish turning steel. Most of the negative tales about carbide on small machines are based on older grades of carbide that wouldn't hold a sharp edge and so needed excessive tool pressure for light machines. Carbide technology has come a long way.
Paul Compton
Plus one for that call out Paul CCGT Ali is my go insert it's the normal CCMT that gives me problems as I only have a couple it's no worry
I use the CCGT for all my work with care they are ok
Stuart
Coming back to see some of your older content is pretty great, not so much product pushing.
Hi Adam. Great video. I'd like to know why you prefer negative rake tools-advantages and disadvantages. Can they be used on a 12" lathe and how. Some negative rake tool holders were given to me and I would like to us them. Thanx for all you do.
don't go full ebom tork, got it. thanks Ebom. I'm new to carbide and is a very good video on the topic. thanks again
M really refers to a tollerance these inserts have to be made alike in terms of cutting face, length and with to fit any holder you wanna use.
Refering to your question I mostly think Kennametal are born on selling their stuff inserts as well as their holders and they found a way to present you odd corners so you´ll buy their holders.
(All the talk below is for cnmg cemented carbide inserts. I am used to working with steel that has or has been already hardened for machine building. Everything else is stainless steel going up to corrosive resistant steel. Anything else is a hobby that may earn me some buck by putting someones combined harvester back in action.)
I´m using Sandvik holders on those 80° inserts for roughing that supports a cutting depth from the corner that you were refering to in the first place to the corner that you were calling "the odd corner" which can be 2-6 mm depending on what the machine can handle. For finishing I´m all about 55,° 0.4mm radius inserts.
So if you have to turn down 0.5 or even 1mm from the outer diameter, just don´t bother messing around with 80° inserts. 55° with 0.4mm radius do 0.25mm cutting depth with ease.
Also I agree, to keep some 80°inserts for the use you advised. Flame cutted stuff and any interrupted cut you´d need those more flat attack angle to your surface.
the term "FULL ABOM TORQUE" is been in use in our shop
I actually use the CNMG 432 on my Grizzly. what is did was to actually mill a dovetail in the holder and fit it straight to the quick change base. I have had just as good results with the negative rake inserts as the positive rake inserts, the truth is you can only cut as much depth as horsepower and rigidity of your machine
Did you just change the feedrate mid cut ???
does the gears not grind when you do that?
I did a lot of research and talking to manufacturer's and came up with 6 in lb for screw torque which is most likely what you're getting the way you are doing it.
Adam, I don't know if this fits the program but woul you please discuss. lathe tooling systems like Top Notch. Tool Flo, etc the porpietory systems cot threading, grooving, etc. And the CNC people use a "dog bone" insert for profiling I think would be very handy. for V-belt grooves. finishing non-working diameters and faces at higher feed rates, These inserts are expensive and if pirchased as part of a tooling system the tools to hold them could be minimised.
BTW, I love the CMNG insert too. l bet I machined a barge load of pumps and valves over the years on VBM's. My favorite for stainless and nickel alloys was Ceratip ceramic CMNG inserts. They really held up for long bores and facing cuts. I use Trigon mostly on my home lathe. Not sure why; maybe a weak moment when I splurged on lathe tooling 20 years ago.
Thanks Forest. I'll see if I can add an episode talking more in depth on the inserts.
Never go full Abom torque... that cracked me up. and loved the image popup too.
Are those CNMG 432 inserts good for finishing?
Do they leave a good surfave finish as in very smooth and shiny or are they just ok?
Have any of you found a good way to make sure you are not using an edge on the insert that you had previously decided was no longer good? I have tried marking them with a sharpie, but chips and/or cutting oil makes that less than useful.
Also, Adam, thank you so much for your efforts and patience to help explain this stuff.
Thanks for tip on the low HP lathe inserts i need to try some
They only time i didint use cnmg was when i machined big heavy alumium parts,cnmg would work with aluminium but i always used a cnmp kenmetal,just works very good for aluminum
I am beginer in lathe I have a I have a small lathe 12mm tool holder WNMG insert is available for 12mm shank ??? I nned youyr help !
oh these carbide inserts that you were using to face off the hydraulic nut, it looked like you were taking about 3/16 to 3/8s each pass, what was your spindle rpm? why no coolant? Was the nut mild steel?
Adam, I have and insert same type. I turn bowls and the what I want to know is how can you tell what size you have type etc. I order my metal lathe type by 10 to a pack. From over seas , Amazon etc. For a fraction of the cost of what they want for one.. Do you have a contact info where I can take a picture of the tool I'm using and insert from different angles. ?? I also ordered the black book..... Thank you ,
I have several tool holders for which I don't know the proper insert. Two Aloris AXA, and a facing head or shell mill (not sure which). How would I go about determining exactly which inserts to use in each of them? (I know the basic shapes: triangular for the Aloris tool holders, and square on the shell). I can determine the size of the IC, but don't know where to start on the other features of the inserts.
This is a problem for many of us hobbyists, because we buy tool holders on eBay without knowing exactly what we are getting sometimes, and we would like to make use of these tools (better than admitting that we goofed when we bought them!).
best info I can give you is to have a book on hand to match up the shape and size of the pocket or tools. The book I use has other pages showing insert shapes and there designations, including milling. I plan to go into milling in another episode.
I do have the Black Book as you've shown in this series as well as URLs for several manufacturers' definition pages, but nothing has popped out to say, "This is it."
I may take a series of close-ups of the milling head and post them in the Facebook group. I'll try to get scale and angles clearly shown.
Thanks for considering my problem, and maybe you will show something that will help when you get to the milling inserts.
What size tool post do you recommend for a Monarch CK12?
Adam, You got that Face Mill in SNS #57. You got it from a Chris somebody. UA-cam just happened to bring up #57 for me.
Cool thanks man. After 141 episodes they all run together but I always put tag words to help find content by searching.
Hey Adam,I use a bench top lathe,(not mini lathe)and cut a lot of aluminum with 1/2" tool holders.what would be a good style insert for smooth finish and get rid of long stringy birds nest type chips?
metalhead2508 why is that?
large radius = wider chip; slower feed = thinner chip. wide and thin = breaks more easily.
Round = doesn't leave a sharp divot each revolution for smoother apparent finish as each edge of the radius is a tangent to the previous cut.
Adam,
What does it mean when it says something like "CC.32.5"?
I have a SB 13" by 5 and I'm looking at getting a pair (left and right hand) tool holders. Given your feed back it looks like a CCMT is a better insert choice. When I'm looking though I see things like "CC.32.5" and I can not find a chart that explains what it means when there is nothing past the first two letters.
For example: Kennametal - SCLC, Right Hand, 5 Degree Lead Angle, 5/8 inch Shank Height, 5/8 Inch Shank width, CC.32.5 Insert Compatibility Indexable Turning Toolholder.
The picture shows a toolholder with a pin but no clamp of a CCMT looking insert...
Thanks,
Does the effective rake angel end up being similar to CCMT (7 degrees)? If so, does that mean similar power requirements or does it require more HP due to the top of the insert being inclined with respect to the work piece?
I think the CCMT inserts are a neutral rake tool, but may have positive angles molded into them. I havn't used them enough to know off hand, I need to refer to the books.
Thanks Adam. Quality info, very well explained
Do those inserts work great on the side corner for interupted facing simply because the wider angle on the tip makes it stronger or is there an additional advantage to the geometry?
There is an advantage to the angle too, like how the mcknr tool actually pushes the workpiece against the chuck, where the mclnr is trying to pull it out, because of the leading angle of the cut....when facing.
I have a subject, I'd be obliged if you could cover in a future Shop Talk.
I've seen videos, where the operator refers to his lathe as an "engine lathe".
I've also seen a video advertising a lathe, which described it as a "gunsmithing lathe".
Could you please do a Shop Talk, where you explain the differences between the various types of lathes.
Thanks