Philippine Sea A-4 incident, 1965
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- One of the biggest events of 1965 didn’t make the news, and, in fact, was kept completely secret for decades: possibly the worst nuclear weapon accident in American history. The December 5, 1965, Philippine sea A-4 incident deserves to be remembered.
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Script by JCG
#history #thehistoryguy #Brokenarrow
Wow. Outside of the tragedy of losing a nuclear weapon. This is a touching memorial to Lt.Jg Webster. I hope this spurs an effort to have his name added to the memorial!
"Tragedy" doesn't feel like the right word...
His name and rank belong on the Memorial!!!
Depends. If the carrier was not in direct support of the Vietnam War, then he will not. June 1969, the USS Frank E. Evans was cut in half by the HMAS Melbourne during a joint exercise, 74 sailors died & they are not on the wall. From Wiki: ‘Despite operating in Vietnamese waters immediately before deployment to Sea Spirit, and being scheduled to return to activities supporting the war effort after the exercise, it was determined that as Sea Spirit was not directly linked with US operations in Vietnam, and the exercise took place outside the geographical limit for the conflict as defined by the outer edge of Market Time operations, the crew was ineligible for inclusion on 'The Wall'. Exceptions to the geographic limit rule have been made for other personnel killed as part of the conflict but not in Vietnam itself; for example those involved in operations in Laos, and those dying in transit to or from Vietnam. However, an act of Congress specifically permitting the inclusion of their names on the memorial is required: legislation to have those killed in the Melbourne-Evans collision has been introduced on several occasions, but has so far failed to gather sufficient support.’
@@jamessimms415 Lt Donald Vol Hester was added to the Memorial in 1986. His accidental death in 1964 (as part of the same squadron and air wing as Doug Webster) occurred between Iwo Jima and Japan, so does not qualify under the above criteria. I do not know on what basis he was added, but if he qualified, so should Webster and the USS Evans sailors.
At a time when the US and Soviet Union were ready to go to war with minutes notice, it is incredibly naive to think a carrier battle group deployed anywhere in the world would not be armed with its normal complement of nuclear weapons.
I wonder how many B-43s a SCB-125 era Essex class carrier would have routinely kept on board? 2? 5? 10? You know they had a nuclear section put in the magazines during the reconstruction - I would have.
I'm guessing They were counting on that naivete.
I was thinking that very same thing. Of course they would have nuclear weapons on board. Why wouldn't they?
@@dmk0210 I figured no more than two. An Essex carrier would have less of a strike role, so any situation which called for more than one tactical nuke would involve a Midway or Forrestal. The one or two on the Essex would be a 'just in case', hence the adjustable yield.
@@marckyle5895Adjustable yields were very common on bombs meant to be carried by lighter aircraft because they would often be used in a more tactical role closer to friendly forces. You want to be able to adjust the yield to suit the target and the relevant distance from friendlies. You're not going to be going deep into Russia to bomb a strategic target with an A-4. Fixed yield bombs are usually larger and intended for strategic aircraft or ICBMs. Something that likely has a pre-designated target. As was mentioned, the fact that this one was set for its maximum yield was shocking to the ordinance crew. This seems to imply that they were far more used to seeing and training with bombs on the lower available settings. These lower settings are likely what an A-4 or other light aircraft would most likely use in any situation short of all out nuclear war.
That being said they would have carried far more than just two nukes and I think you're significantly underestimating the strike capability of an Essex. There were 2 different sizes of hulls and they were fitted out to a rather bewildering number of refit standards. The combat focused CVs (not the anti-sub CVS) had a standard loadout that was generally 5-6 squadrons with at least half or more being strike aircraft. I couldn't find an actual 1960s era breakdown of the actual plane quantities that made up those combat squadrons but in the mid to late 1960s the USS Oriskany is listed as having 2 squadrons of F-8J Crusaders and three squadrons of A-4E Skyhawks and various early warning/recon planes. In 1971 she's listed as actually having 71 aircraft on board of which 36 were A-7B Corsairs (the A-4's replacement). So with 30+ nuclear capable aircraft on board it would be pretty ridiculous to assume the carrier would only carry 2 nukes for them. Its far more likely to assume they had at least 1 per aircraft if not two. Especially during the height of the cold war. You also have to remember that with the safeguards around nuclear weapons (and japan's dislike of said nukes) that they weren't going to be able to resupply on them after leaving the US. Any nukes they might need for the entire deployment and any potential emergency escalations had to be carried from the start. So its likely they were going to over estimate.
I'm so excited to see this, I met a man at a yard sale who was on board uss Ticonderoga when this happened and it was mind blowing how I had never heard the story before. He mentioned that he never knew that it was classified until much later and just assumed everyone back home had read about it in the papers
There's a lot you haven't heard about Philippines, like the million killed by USA just because they spoke Spanish.
One day soon the bomb will detonate and the US will blame it on China starting WW3.
One of the first things you learned on a carrier in the 60's and 70's was " I can neither confirm or deny the presence of nuclear weapons aboard this ship."
Japan long suspected that there were nukes aboard carriers everytime we sailed there for RR and got testy when we said that. Can't say as I blame them.
I can remember being told that when I was on board the USS Ranger. But everybody knew we had them on board back then. I often wondered how the protesters at NAS Alameda back then would of reacted if they knew how close they were to the rest of the stored Atomic weapons on base.
@@maxmclanahan6821 Probably even more riled. I always thought they were stored primarily at NWS Concord.
I had a friend that was a marine on base that escorted the nukes from the storage to when they were loaded onboard . They were kept at the southwest corner of the base by the north and south runway. @@kenkahre9262
To quote from one of my favorite films, “I don't know what's scarier, losing nuclear weapons, or that it happens so often there's actually a term for it.”
And what film might that be?
"Broken Arrow"@@MichaelOfRohan
_Broken Arrow_
@@MichaelOfRohanThe saying was actually used in, we were soldiers with Mel Gibson.
Broken Arrow", a code phrase notably used during the 1965 Battle of Ia Drang to indicate an American combat unit was in danger of being overrun.
@@lynch6642 The term (also movie title) quoted by dougjb was used in We Were Soldiers, the saying quoted by the OP was not.
Thank you, THG for remembering an important piece of our naval history and a young pilot who lost his life serving his country.
Never to be forgotten. Rest in peace Lt. Douglas Webster.
Thank you History Guy for the rememberance.
Sometimes things just go wrong. You might think you've anticipated every possible issue, then something like this happens.
Anybody who thinks nothing can go wrong is an idiot. Throughout history the damnedest things have happened at the worst times... things you can't possibly imagine, let alone plan for. But they still happen. And they happen because, no matter how improbable, they are still possible.
There needs to be a greater effort to add the pilot on the list of names on the wall. But, this is probably just listed as a Class A training accident
With the history guy here, There's truth to the old saying, "You learn something new every day." 👍👍
Always appreciate your military history videos.
USS Turner Joy is a museum ship in Bremerton WA. USS Gridley was redesignated as a guided-missile cruiser.
Tom Clancy's book 'The Sum of All Fears' takes it a bit further when a nuclear bomb is lost and subsequently recovered with the loss again being set against the backdrop of conflict, again one under the fuselage of an A4, albeit one that was in Israeli use.
Yeah but the bomb was compromised/damaged and it didnt give off anywhere near its original payload capacity, which TBH, is most likely in a real world scenario.
Thank you, LT Webster, for your service to our country, and your sacrifice...
Love the Enterprise on the shelf! Of course, I love all your videos!🎉
I was involved in nuclear safety when I was stationed at Minot AFB, N.D. in 1971. In the classified classes I was required to take covering nuclear weapons, the subject of arming was covered in some detail. Due to the method used my most of our weapons, it requires coordinated detonation of all the segments of conventional explosive to take place. To prevent accidental detonation of the atomic portion of the weapon, on segment of convectional explosive is purposely kept in a retracted position and moved into arming position a few minutes or seconds before desired launch/release. Therefore, the weapon that was lost in the accident aboard the aircraft carrier did not have an armed weapon loaded on the A-4 lost. Just want to keep things real. All our nuclear weapons use this arming safe system. Everyone relax. No bombs will be going off accidently anytime soon.
I think the bigger concern is someone retrieving it...
Yes, that is a big concern. But our host said specifically that the weapons were armed. They were and are not armed and therefore, will not create a nuclear detonation.
Except that he said that the armourer had done all their work..... so they bomb should have been by that time live.
@@TheStefanskoglund1 No. The "explosive train" has several additional steps that must be accomplished before the final detonation sequence occurs, including the pilot "arming" the weapon in the cockpit, the release of the weapon and the separation of the umbilical from the aircraft and the achievement of the final attack profile (Airburst at X altitude, surface burst or sub-surface burst). Without all of those happening in sequence (and with the appropriate accelerometer inputs) the final command to detonate will not occur.
It takes a lot to detonate a nuclear weapon (US built- can't vouch for anyone else's)
Didn’t know about this one at all ☢️ great to share these History’s with us HG!
I learn more history from watching THG than I ever did in school
One of the men that sometimes appears at my grandpa's war buddies meetings was a ranking officer in that war. All of the regular guys that attend the group know how much I love to hear about history. So I asked Mr officer if he could tell some fascinating experiences. He said this " Ma'am I will tell about the gallant, brave men and women thrust into dire, terrifying situations. But I have nothing to say about that war." Those words have stayed with me for a long time. Thank you Mr History Guy for telling us about the soldiers like Mr Webster that was forgotten for so long. History that deserves to be remembered.
Makes me wonder what else is hidden behind a veil of stupidity, incompetence, and deadly hubris that we don't know about. Brave servicemen deserve better treatment than this and it's criminal neglect in memorializing the pilot.
The video indicates that the cover-up was to avoid an international incident with allied Japan during an in-progress war in Vietnam. In addition, the knowledge that such weapons were present aboard carriers is best kept from both China and the Soviet Union.
That is not “stupidity, incompetence, or hubris.”
@@rockhopper01 I suspect China, the Soviet Union, and Japan already knew about the nuclear weapons on the US carriers. The cover-up was to avoid a PR disaster (aka "international incident") and egg on the face of the US Navy. Whether it was stupidity, incompetence, or hubris can be debated. Sometimes accidents just happen and defeat the contingencies set in place to mitigate them.
What else is hidden? In short, a LOT!
@@rockhopper01 or protecting the japanese government from their population which was cheated.
@@chicosbailbonds9764 The premier in Tokyo would have been forced to either: act ie force a removal of nuclear bombs from Japan, or resign and force a realignment of Japan.
Well you got me at the end.....so sad
That was a very sad and haunting, forgotten history lesson. Thank you for bringing it to us. I can’t shake the thought of that brave young man in his last moments, and his fellow crew mates. If you could all excuse me, but I’ve been watching the shelf’s behind the host . 1965 was the year “Lost in Space”, appeared on TV. Hence the Robot, but Star Trek was 1966. Just a thought.
VA-56 was aboard USS Midway in the 80s when I was aboard her with A-7s. Excellent squadron .
I was with VA-305 out of Point Mugu with one of the last A-7 squadrons. Dam, good plane, slow but solid. That would of been about 1981 / 82.
Thanks for telling the story of Lt Webster, truly a sad and haunting loss
Thank you!
@@TheHistoryGuyChannel
Pardon me for asking this question...
Where exactly did the accident happened ... inside Philippine waters or near Okinawa ??
Thank you for always bringing the human aspect into these stories. When stories contain such intriguing details, it's too easy to overlook the lost of life.
In my years in the Navy we were always told if asked about the presence of nukes on our ships the correct answer was "I can't confirm or deny their presence onboard." This was all the more emphasized while I was stationed on the USS Midway, which was homeported in Yokosuka, Japan, since--as you point out--the Japanese are very sensitive about them. Speaking of Yokosuka, the proper pronunciation doesn't pronounce the "u," so the correct pronunciation is "Yokoska," in case you care to pronounce it correctly on future videos that might include it. Love your videos.
FYI for any A-3 Skywarrior fans, the Whale that comes into view at time 10:31 is attached to VAH-4 according to its tail designator. VAH-4 later was redesignated as famed VAQ-131 flying the now converted into the glorious EA-3B, the largest Navy aircraft to routinely fly from our carriers. Please don’t point out that a C-130 Herc did it. The Whale danced on the decks routinely for many years.
Weren't there some Skywarriors and Vigilants that were quite large?
@@davidhoffman1278 The A-3 Whale was the biggest jet to operate routinely on carriers. In fact, when my EA-3B hit the deck, it would bounce a bit, which the crew called the Whale Dance. As to size, there was a C-130 making landings (Forrestal, I think), but it was a test only.
in the Pacific, only Heavy 4 (VAH-4) flew on the small, modified WW II, carriers. That was the most difficult carrier landing routine in the Vietnam era. The plane had no ejection seats for the three man crew which led to the designation of A3D, which officially stood for Attack model #3 Douglas ( now absorbed by Boeing), to be changed aboard carriers to " all 3 dead".
@@TomSwift-wy1gx VQ-1 or 2? I was in VQ-1 and got lucky to fly on the Whale a few times before I stuck with the EP-3
@@kaptainkaos1202 Q-2, Guam. I was ELINT petty officer 75-79. My first flight was on a big bird in the SOJ, but I was soooo bored, I asked for whales immediately upon landing. You?
According to current DoD guidelines, service members may be eligible for inscription on The Wall if they have:
died (no matter the cause) within the _defined combat zone of Vietnam_ (varies based on dates)
died while on a combat/combat support mission to/from the defined combat zone of Vietnam
So he isn't eligible, as The Wall is strictly for those killed in theater. However...people will see Lt. Webster here and remember him, name on the Wall or not.
Those sound like pretty fair criteria for listing.
Well that did it. I had to join. This is what teaching history is all about. The good, the bad, the ugly and the hidden. I propose the "Lieutenant JG Webster Vietnam Memorial" back in my home town.
We should remember all Cold Warriors that died in the line of duty, Perhaps a memorial for the cold war.
I was in the Army in the late 1980s.
There were a lot of soldiers injured and killed during training.
@@shawnr771. Military people died as a result of the German Red Army & other such organizations in bombings.
Its unfair that the pilot is not recognized. 😢
Yes but he wasn’t in Nam nor flying a mission to Nam so the Vietnam memorial is not the appropriate place
Thanks for this we operated A-4 Skyhawks with our RNZAF. 🇳🇿... may the young pilot RIP✈️🙏
My ship operated with the Tico constantly during this period and I do remember them losing a plane but had no idea it carried a nuke. The Turner Joy was also one of the destroyers involved in the so-called "Gulf of Tonkin" incident. After talking with that ship's sailors we knew that was a lie from LBJ. I lost all faith in the Navy and in the US government as a result. After all, there was no way, even if the USSR or China knew the exact position of the nuke there was no way of retrieving it.
BTW, US sailors pronounced the name of the city You-KUSE-ka, and not YOKO-soo-ka.
Well told.
As always, a great video and history remembrance. Looking forward to the other video about keeping the radioactive materials separate.
Great Vid - Thank you - was curious, why did they never recover the missing bomb from the accident in Canada?
It was ejected before the crash and has never been found.
It is mind-boggling to think that a nuclear bomb is just laying on a mountainside in Canada.
@@mikebronicki8264 under snow, under water. The site was very remote and difficult to locate, and the plane was thought lost at sea. The wreck site wasn’t found until three years after the accident, with no sign of the weapon nor unusual radioactivity.
The bomb did not have it’s plutonium trigger, but did include radioactive material. In 2016 a diver found what he thought might be a part of the bomb, but an investigation showed that it was not.
That young pilot absolutely should be on the Vietnam War Memorial!
I don’t agree.
As noted in the video his loss was off the coast of Japan and he was not in the war zone. Nor was he participating in a live combat sortie.
It was a training accident
@@shawnmiller4781I think I'm going to go ditto on this. While there have been names added; this was clearly outside of the combat zone. I'm not sure what the requirements are however?
Although Webster was not flying a combat mission or in the war zone, another pilot, Donald Vol Hester, from the same squadron and the same ship was lost in an accident in waters closer to Japan a year previously and his name was added to the Memorial in 1986. I have yet to find under what criteria this was done, but if Hester qualifies, so should Webster.
Yet another wonderful post by the History Guy. Never disapoints. Thank you.
Outstanding report...............👍
1st class.. thankyou for sharing
It's a shame that the only real surprise to me of the entire event was that the pilot's name wasn't put on the Vietnam War Memorial.
For future reference, it's not "yoko-sooka", it's Yo-ko-ska. The "U" is usually silent in Japanese.
Great story and you've told it well. I had a history teacher like you at Texas A&M. I loved that course, but alas I was majoring in Computer Science at that time (and couldn't remember dates worth a dam) (sp on purpose)
A minor point for accuracy...The naval base at Yokosuka is pronounced "Ya-kus-ka". Who am I? I was once the Commanding Officer of the base.
Thank you for your service!
Good episode. A history teacher myself, so I enjoy what you do. Skyhawk trivia. The planes nickname is 'Scooter.' Its roll rate is 400 degrees per second, thats nearly one and a quarter revolution in a second.
@TheHistoryGuyChannel >>> Great video...👍
This one I was unaware of.
You're damn right that this is history that deserves to be remembered
I’m a bit surprised that the water pressure at depth didn’t implode the pit, resulting in a detonation (which would probably have been a fizzle as the force involved wouldn’t have been sufficient to have an even spherical implosion; nor would it have been fast enough to get a high yield before the pit would have exploded). 🤔
Yeah, a bomb blast at that depth wouldn't really do much.
Nice to see NCC-1701 In the background
extremely grateful that Truman could see MacArthur was a nutcase. Using nukes in Korea would have been unforgivable.
Absolutely Astonishing! Thank you History Guy! This is a real gem of forgotten, no, hidden history! Thank you for bringing it to light! Of course the government said the weapon disintegrated before reaching the ocean floor, as if they would know! We hope so, but let's not forget the Glomar Explorer. I'll bet The History Guy already has a video on that sea tale! I'll never forget being a young 21 year old, only a couple weeks out of navy bootcamp and just taking in San Diego; me and a few other sailors got on another base and boarded a ship (a destroyer I believe it was) and we just knew this ship had nuclear weapons on board, and one of us asked the E5 showing us around if the ship had nuclear weapons. I'll never forget that E5's response: "I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of nuclear weapons aboard this ship." That's the Glomar Response. 😂 Classic!
Nothing controversial about a commander-in-chief relieving a general. Dougie got too big for his britches.
"Dug-out Doug" they called him. Not a popular fellow.
@@DavidMartin-ym2te That's what I call him too. I was trying to be polite.
@@DavidMartin-ym2te The media loved him but he was one worthless officer....and person.
The aircraft at the 5:45 thru 7:01 mark is not a Douglas A-4 Skyhawk, it is a McDonnell F3H Demon.
love the footage of the Demon's making passes and landings on the Ticonderoga before she was modified with the angled flight deck.
Those were Demons - thank you! I knew they weren't Skyhawks but I wasn't sure what they were.
Interesting that you've chosen to relate the official version of the Gulf of Tonkin incident...
Don't confuse the August 2, 1964, incident with the August 4 incident which apparently never happened.
To clarify, both the real firefight on August 2 and the imaginary firefight of August 4 (where it appears that the US basically fired in the direction of spurious radar returns that they took to be Vietnamese vessels) were used to justify the war. Politically it was very relevant and maybe should have been mentioned. But the video is about a different topic altogether so it's arguable how relevant the events of August 4 are here.
@@TruthNerdsI think what really should be mentioned is exactly what the USS Maddox was doing there in the first place.
The USS Maddox was providing intelligence and communication servixes for clandestine South Vietnamese forces operating in North Vietnam.
The US was far more involved in the war between North and South than was being admitted to the public.
Currently, the USN does not say if nuclear weapons are within aircraft carrier strike groups.
This might your most moving post ever. That's saying a LOT because I've seen them all. Thank you THG.
I appreciate you, thank you for making content.
Why is the US military radio call "Broken Arrow" the same for both a lost Nuclear weapon and a unit that is about to be over run my the enemy...?
It isn't. Broken Arrow refers solely to a nuclear weapon incident. The entire scenario presented in We Were Soldiers is pure horseshit. Typical Mel Gibson fantasy. The most historically inaccurate part of the film.
@@mikearmstrong8483 - I hear ya. All I'm saying is that it comes up when you Google "radio call sign when a us force is being overrun"... 🤷♀
@@jemc4276
That's because wikipedia allows any idiot to post whatever they want with no real editing or review.
I served with a nuclear capable unit and I know the reporting procedure, and it has absolutely nothing to do with just yelling Broken Arrow over a radio.
'The only "active" one that the federal government has admitted to' would be a more accurate statement. Off the coast of Savannah, GA, there's a nuclear warhead sunk in the mud. The Army Corps of Engineers replenishes the Tybee Island sand scrupulously and annually. It can't just be for the pleasures of the local beach-going public.
I can bet there are a lot more nuclear weapons incidents than ever reported. In 1983 there was a short range nuclear missile that fell off the mobile launcher onto the Autobahn in Germany. The reason I know this is because it was my wrecker that picked it up and set it on the flatbed truck. They didn't mention what the missile was until the job was done.
"Hey! Thanks for picking up our nuke for us!"
It wouldn't have been armed while in transit and may not even have the warhead in place. You can bet someone got demoted. They use modified trucks to transport nuc demolition charges so they have more tie-down points.
Gotta ask. Did you personally pick up the weapon, or was it "your wrecker" from "your squadron" but not you personally. Asking to be clear.
@@TomSwift-wy1gx It was my issued M816 wrecker and I was the operator with a rigger for assistance. And yes the warheads were attached. But no arming mechanism. The missile broke out the lower rail stop from the mobile launcher. The short range tactical nukes had an operating range of 40 miles.
@@peteengard9966 Very cool. Thanks for that.
May we never forget.
Well done
I read about this in that Naval Institute magazine..
I would like to say that it was not the Navy that covered up the incident, it was the Pentagon and the president.
thanks
Even though I am against whaling. I would love to hear some history on whaling ships in the US and even other militaries.
The most potential serious nuclear incident was near Goldsboro NC on January 24 1961. As improbable as it sounds it was only luck that prevented a Mark 39 thermonuclear bomb from laying waste. The other Mark 39 that fell from the B-52 is still buried deep underground with area chained off.
I would think an aircraft on a deck-edge elevator would be set with chocks on both main-gear wheels. There must have been some miscommunication if the chocks (if they were in place) were removed and the pilot wasn’t holding his feet on the wheel brakes or had the the parking brake set. I mean, dang, you sure don’t want to lose any plane overboard, regardless of armament…treat every plane as if it is carrying a live nuke. The pilot must have had his head down looking at the navigation panel or armament panel and did not perceive that the aircraft was unexpectedly in motion over the deck and didn’t see deck crews signaling frantically.
They probably have stricter aircraft handling procedures today.
And WHY would they use a live nuke for training?? Did they not have totally inert training “shapes” to use back then? Maybe not? The mock bombs, probably have all the electrical connections and the same weight as a live bomb, but with no explosives or radioactive materials. That way, it could be handled exactly the same as if it was a live bomb.
amazing i had never heard of this incident
Situational awarness.
Boy how times have changed we would have been court-martial for ad.itting we were carrying them and especially in Japan BTW the a4 is a single seater where as the ta4f was a twin seater
I’d like to disagree with the notion that this was the deadliest broken arrow incident due to the fact that there were other broken arrow incidents one in particular where a nuke had been dropped on US soil on accident and two of the three safety mechanisms had been triggered
But this bomb was armed🤔
@@thylange true but it wasn’t over us soil which could have killed thousands
Hmm, a tsunami which hits lowland China, Taiwan, south of Japan and the Philippines ....
How about a million dead ie drowned ?
Hello THG - Great topic - however a correction is in order - regarding the 1950 "Broken Arrow" incident you mentioned - the nuclear core was filled with natural (not refined) uranium. It was filled with a fake practice core as the Convair B-36B 44-92075 aircraft was on a simulated bombing run. The ship developed serious engine trouble with three of it's six engines. The crew decided to abandon the aircraft because it could not stay aloft with three engines out of commission while carrying a heavy payload. The atomic bomb was jettisoned and detonated in mid-air, resulting in a large conventional explosion over the Inside Passage. The USAF later stated that the fake practice core on board the aircraft was inserted into the weapon before it was dropped.[2] - (WIKIPEDIA)
Good footage of the McDonnell F3H Demon @5:48 to 7:00.
Cruel And Ruthless With Merciless
,, Limitless Best To Say , Right..
Relentless Since 1985 onwards..
He had already made several combat flights in Vietnam and was killed during a training exercise, so yes in reality his name should be on the wall. I'm a patriot, but the way this country treats it's veterans really pisses me off, sorry for the vulgar language.
@JamesThomas-gg6il... I agree, and besides, the only people who would see his name and know anything at all about what happened would be the few who already knew about the incident. Otherwise, it's just another name among the tens of thousands.
Having watched my dad try to get the VA to recognize a combat injury from Korea, I have to heartily agree. They finally did recognize the incident--in the bloody 90s!
@@sheilatruax6172 a guy I work with, his dad was in uniform in the navy during Vietnam, but never in that theater, he now has dementia and the VA would not provide any help to get him in a home. In my opinion, since I'm (all of us who work for a living) paying for the VA then all veteran services should be covered first and foremost.
The United States has had if I remember correctly that we have 4 broken arrow accidents in our history. At least one was a lost of a bomb out of a bomber over Iowa.
34 acknowledged incidents. Several described here: ua-cam.com/play/PLSnt4mJGJfGi-qJ9yauSq1ugvddQZoyQQ.html
8:13 is a Skyhawk from the USS Coral Sea , Did a med-cruise on her with my f-18 squadron VFA-131 Wildcats assigned to CAG-13 1987/1988 good times !
Ironic that if he had dropped the bomb in action but been killed in the blast he would have qualified for the wall.
Good morning
It makes me wonder. What is really more dangerous in such a situation. Loosing an active live Atomic bomb at sea in such a depth. Or ever trying to recover it with a deep submersible.
It's terrifying that so many Atomic weapons were on one ship during a war. After all, what if the ship itself is lost?
THG you rock! Peace
Please do a review of the USS Liberty incident.
Growing up in the sixties near two military installations the duck and cover exercises gave many of us anxieties. When I was in the service I had to perform maintenance on the magazines they were kept. Being warm to the touch I never been around anything so cold.
Great details had not heard before. However it’s doubtful that General LeMay “chose to keep the accident a state secret” as he had already retired from the military. Also the Mk-4 bomb lost in February 1950 is well known to have been destroyed by the detonation of its high-explosives after being dropped. “Fully armed” is somewhat misleading as the B43 did not have the codes and settings needed to detonate. All later bombs including the Palomares accident were (by this definition) “Fully armed”.
Also, LeMay was not responsible for navy or tactical nuclear weapons when he commanded SAC. He would have had no say in those areas.
Has there ever been an effort to locate the wreckage and recover the weapon?
The only sub crazy enough to try was the Titan.
The ALVIN was built specifically for this purpose (retrieving lost secret equipment) as was the N-1 sub, (among other uses)
You might want to take a closer look at the gulf of tonkin incident.
Daddy as a naval aviator during WWII was a quiet, unassuming gentleman. But the news that Daniel Websters name was not included upon the memorial would not sit well with him as I’m certain it doesn’t with so many others. This must be changed. To be more concerned with their image over an aviators legacy equates with everything else going haywire today. Shameful.
Knowing now that during the Vietnam War carriers were carrying Nuclear Weapons really makes me look at the fires aboard the Oriskany, Forrestal, and Enterprise with a whole new perspective.
Not to me. They have to be armed to be dangerous. If they arent armed, they arent dangerous. You could blow one up if its not armed.
Morning my guy
I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of any nuclear weapons aboard this vessel.
👍🏾30,000 dang wow
Hey THG, love your work but your mention at the 6 minute mark of the Gulf of Tonkin Incident makes me want you to explore it further. Have you already done a video about the now disproven August 4th Tonkin Gulf attack? It was the “incident” on the 4th rather than what occurred on the 2nd that drove the creation of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.
IIRC there was no reasonable answer for the bomb to have been made fully operational. Supposedly Los Alamos has it listed as losing a pair of nukes. If not over the side, where did the other bomb go, or is that just an error in the report? Lt Webster is not the only person who was not on the memorial. (There were 2.7 million service personnel in VN.) The ship was not in the active war at the time of his loss. The Three Servicemen statue is to honor all those who served in VN and later died because of their service. The Ailes family erected a memorial at the Trumbull County Vietnam Veterans Memorial in his honor among other memorials.
Awe. Thats sad he isnt on the memorial.
The first known (to the public, anyway) "broken arrow" incident, involving the B36 crash in British Columbia which is mentioned in passing here, is still shrouded in mystery, in spite of a scuba diver's 2016 claim of finding what appeared to be the bomb in Canadian waters. The plane left Eielson AFB in Alaska on a mock bombing run, the flight plan not originally including Canadian airspace; but heavy icing on the wings caused three of the overloaded engines to catch fire, and so the crew was forced to head for the Canadian coast. The bomb, purportedky similar to the Nagasaki Fat Man device, is claimed to have contained uranium and conventional explosives but supposdly had not been armed with the plutonium core necessary to generate a thermonuclear explosion. The crew is said to have dropped the bomb and detonated the conventional explosives in mid-air to destroy the weapon ---- they claimed to have seen the flash and felt the shockwave of a conventional weapon ---- and abandoned the plane by parachute over a Canadian island After having set the auto pilot to take the plane out to sea where I could crash in the ocean. 12 of the 17 crew members survived (apparently floating down to a Canadian island) but the other 5 were never found and are presumed to have landed in the water and died of hypothermia. The plane supposedly changed course after the crew members bailed and there has been speculation that 1 crew member remained on the plane to pilot it towards land instead of letting it head out to sea by itself on autopilot where it could crash. 3 years later, the remains of the plane were found not out at sea but on the side of a mountain in British Columbia. Human remains were also found on-site but I couldn't find anything to indicate whether or not they had been identified as one of the crew, and supposedly no trace of the weapon was found. In 2016, a diver searching for sea cucumbers in relatively shallow coastal waters anout 50 miles from the location of the crashed B36 saw what appeared to him to be "a UFO", but which he later claimed to resemble photographs of a "fat man" style bomb. The Canadian Royal Navy supposedly set out to investigate but I couldn't find any results from this search.
His name must be on The Wall.
A tragedy and the Pilot's name should be on "The Wall". I don't see any purpose in bringing the plane up on deck from the hanger bay though. Yes, practice handling, loading and unloading a nuclear weapon on the plane but that's all. Even today, I feel that every U.S. Navy ship that is capable of deploying nuclear weapons, should be armed with them at all times. I was born in 1952 and lived through a large part of the Cold War. I'm a USAF TAC Vietnam Veteran. "Never trust a commie and the only good commie is a dead commie". Some things never change.
Very interesting and educational. Thank You and Best Regards.