Hey Shad, I agree that HOTD is written so much better than the Rings of Power, which is a shame because Tolkien is my favorite high fantasy author, I'm just glad that both of these shows didn't start out as a complete train wreck. I'm actually planning to get involved with tourneys in the UK once I move to Wales from Canada, I can't wait to reconnect with my family's medieval roots, we even have an ancestral castle on the Gower! Looking forward to your future content and keep up the good work.
Great video analysis. really enjoyed that research too. Almost identical to my thoughts on the whole thing, down to personal choice to be less well armed in the face. The 'uncouched' lance technique enables a stabbing motion too, which has less impact but some people prefer to use. It also gives you much more post impact control.
that does make sense that there would be and advantage at the cost of loosing some power makes sense why people would have done it historically. I would be really interested in hearing about the difference nuances of jousting techniques
I guess the stabbing motion probably added a little range to the lance and possibly helps in gaining first contact in the joust; I wonder if that first contact even if less powerful might at least increase the chance that the opponent's own strike becomes less true.
Thanks for the shout out Metatron. Love the amount of work you put into every video. In regards to the high elbow, you could probably use a high elbow to knock someone off if you're also using arrets on the lance and cuirass, but in this case the power is transferred through the arrets rather than the strength of the couch. I am not personally familiar with this style of jousting, (although my new harness will have an arret) so do not know how much of a couch you still need to keep the lance arrets connected. They're not using arrets in House of the dragon, so a high elbow isn't going to give enough power to knock someone off like we see in the show.
My pleasure and thank you for the explanation. I thoroughly enjoyed your video on Hotd, you bring to the table a lot of practical perspective I certainly don’t have. Very appreciated In regards to the high elbow stance, quite a few of the images where I find it don’t show a lance rest. So that makes me imagine that they did use it regardless. Perhaps when breaking the lance was the main objective. With that being said, In defense of your point, I wonder if it’s just the artist’s omission, rather than the knight not having it. On the imagery from the battle of San Romano, the knights have that strange grip with both hands which also results in a high elbow, but I believe those do have a rest. Who knows.
@@metatronyt It's difficult to say for sure. What I can share is that numerous modern jousters have recieved broken thumbs/wrists from not couching their lances correctly, as it applies all of the strength of the impact to the wrist/thumb. Its never happened to me, but I have experienced massive kickback from my own lance and wouldn't want to chance it.
This commentary actually made me appreciate the details in Knight’s Tale better. Things like hitting shields to choose weapons and the focus on protecting yourself with your armor we’re done decently well.
Love that they did these crazy helmet designs for the tourney too because they’re everywhere in the books. Dragon helms, unicorn horns, big ass antlers, I just love the over the top dedication to heraldry
was dumb; a helmet is there to protect the head, not to look fancy and add trouble by giving it that taller shape. To look cool there's fancy clothes, helmets are there to stop their skull from breaking or worst. It shows the character is an imbecille or someone who wants to look good before idiots in universe, or people watching the fictional world who don't care about consistency that much. But I assume is in universe for the sake of immersion, so the guy is an attention seeker or an idiot.
U.S. steel infantry helmets ( at least when I wore one ) had both a solid catch ( for regular maneuvers ) and a ball-and-fork friction clasp for combat, so that a glancing blow from shrapnel or a bullet wouldn't break your neck ( hopefully ). And returning to your starting point is totally reasonable. It's where your squire and equipment are, should anything need repair. Just as boxers return to their corner.
16:34 In the first ASOIAF book Ned convinces King Robert not to compete in the melee tournament, and it was later revealed that they planned to assassinate him during the fight.
Finally! The Metatron returns! His genius is the only thing that keeps me going sometimes! A day without the Metatron is like a day without sunshine and I hate cloudy days! Bow down before the Metatron!!!!!
oh dear. Well, I can see him having an issue with the Elven plate armor we see early on. Numenor looks pretty decent so far though. One of the swords looked like a toy though. I’m unsure if he’ll talk about story/writing, which might be a good thing lol.
@@LeftJoystick The writing is the worst part of the show. You don't have to have read Tolkien like I have to recognize how bad it is, just on a purely logical level. Shadiversity actually goes in depth how bad the writing is.
You make a great point about the helmet. I too thought this is suicide, but the concept of a daring knight who's ready to face such danger isn't all that unlikely. I guess the show could've done a better job at highlighting the risk Daemon's willing to take by having someone comment on it. This way it feels a little unintentional, but who knows.
Great analysis, as usual. I must say that I enjoyed the part of the mounted jousting, apart from some perplexities about Daemon tripping the opponent's horse, which however could be explained by his status and personality, same with the otherwise incredibly dangerous open helmet. I was quite taken off by the subsequent deathmatches on the ground, mostly because those knights to my understanding were not random men-at-arms but belonged to noble families on Westeros, which made me wonder whether a tournament with participants stupidly fighting to the death would not be the cause for bloody feuds among powerful houses and potential wars. Unless I missed something, it was never said that the knights killing one another had open matters to settle, so it looked to me like an idiotic event to set up (losing knights that would be useful to have available in case of war + causing frictions among nobles in the realm).
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I think the loosely strapped helmet might also be a safety measure. I know that modern military helmets have a safety feature, that when activated, allows the helmet to be knocked off. While it is also used to be able to knock of ones helmet to be faster when donning a gas mask I've also heard that it is used when soldiers expect to be potentially entangled or get caught with their helmet. This way the helmet will fall off but their is no risk of injury to the neck. I don't know if knights might have considered this but I can imagine that it happened that a struck helmet might have broken a knights neck.
I have the weirdest feeling that you could hold a joust for almost any event or occurrence. Heck, I wouldn't find it odd to think of somebody deciding to hold a joust just because they got a brand spankin' new set of jousting armor.
At St Inglevert 3 French knights held a 30 day long joust because they wanted to. Renee of Anjou states one of the reasons to have a tournament is so the young men can impress young women.
It's not exactly Medieval but I think Henry VIII did exactly this numerous times and not just for jousting but also melees and other weird events that he cooked up just so he could have a suit of armour specifically made for it.
This is probably my first time viewing your content in a very long time. I watched a couple of your videos on the past but were never too interested. This video has made me decide to go back and watch all your content, I think more stuff like this historical review video is really good! Thank you for the video.
Great review. What i also liked on the show, was the small things. Like the introduction of the Velaryon, where you have the Small Banners. I Thing this was realy down. Banners was not only used as a Sign for REgiments or Armys or Kings on the Battlefield. It was also very good Symbol for the Family and there Household.
This was one of your most entertaining videos Metatron, I can see your enthusiasm in commentating it and your attitude in general was very positive throughout. Cheers mate!
I love when several of my subscribed channels cover the same subject. Always interesting to see how you guys manage to give a different point of view from the others. I assume we´re going to get more of these in coming weeks.
*The problem with the show's scale armor is that the scales are irregular, and it almost looks like they tried to give it the appearance of dragon leather, rather than actual scale armor.*
Just a little correction about pronunciation. I know that it's very common to omit the last letter in French but the S in Arras is not silent. But still, great video as always. People like Shad, Matt and you are doing an amazing job educating plebs like me. I'd also like to add a bit more on Daemon's helm, the lack of mail to protect the neck.
Great video. Loved all of it and the description of why the lance tripping the horse wouldn't work makes perfect sense and I don't know why people haven't reacted to it more. Even I could see it :)
The joust is not consistent with the internal logic of the books. Robert Baratheon screaming stop this madness, and it's the Mountain, a wild dog, on a rampage. Meaning you don't expect normal knights to go on such rampages. And we are talking about the king Robert Baratheon, who is a brute who loves tourneys
Well in the books that doesn't happen at all, it was just a normal tourney. I'm not sure why they decided to make this change, but it was very puzzling for book readers because a bunch of lords dying would have huge consequences for the realm.
@@guillermojaime1772 exactly. Including feuds between major houses. Because one thing is an accident. Another thing is a son, a cousin, a brother, fallen on the ground, and a guy comes and splits his head open to the point people around vomit.
great video! at 16:33 tho it cuts out the last bit of u saying joust. Also I really like the b roll footage of castles and swords n stuff looks amazing! and I really like how you added to the conversation from the other youtubers and were so positive and charitable with understanding their perspective
I really did enjoy all of the analysis given by the community. Overall, I think this jousting scene was great. What we maybe must not forget is Prince Daemon's character. Due to that, I think his tactics and employment of options is very fitting for him, also the open-faced helmet (daredevil). Regarding his armour, it looked a bit like the "heroica" style of which, as far as I know, Tobias Capwell had one made for himself. Daemon's is much darker, but still looked very impressive and very much different from his opponents' armours.
A lot of good points. I’d like to add that a horse wouldn’t let anything moving just attack its legs like that either. Most likely it would have lunged over it or to the right away from the evil object. It’s one thing to run through people who are on foot and another for the horse to see where a long stick begins and ends coming towards it.
I'm pretty sure the scales that Shad is talking about is the "dragon hide" that is incorporated in the princes armor. He also didn't say that the butt flaps were not authentic but just looked weird. Loved your video though look forward to more
I haven't read the books, because he didn't finish the 1st series (fool me once...), but when I saw Daemon with the open face helm it gave me the impression that he was showing his disdain for danger and it seemed to fit into what I gathered of his character thus far. Beauchamp is pronounced beech-um in english. I know it's strange. I liked your pronunciation, sounded french. Much better than the way I butchered it, something like bow-camp, until I learned that it was pronounced the way it is. Never would have guessed. Thanks for another great video.
@@robo5013 It doesn't matter what it's pronounced like in england because it's wrong. Ad populum my friend, that's the name of the mistake you're committing.
@@wildwood9844 that is incorrect, the true pronunciation is always from the country of origin. As a french name, the correct pronunciation is the french one. I would make an exception for a tentative pronunciation of beauchamp into bo-sha, bo-shan or bo-sham since that's the closest the english accent, without training, can provide. Anything else is incorrect.
Great stuff. The lance used to trip a horse is the one issue that sticks out for me but hey, not everything has to be ultra-realistic, a certain artistic licence is perfectly ok in a fantasy show (and this is very a good one).
I think it's fine if things like laws and rules aren't exactly historically accurate. It is fantasy, and from the tone I'd assume the laws and rules to be less idealistic. So some of the things we might consider wrong, even from a historical medieval perspective, might not be quite as wrong in the story's perspective.
Awesome video as always. I saw episode 1 this morning and your video came up on my wall today. In my opinion I thought they wanted to make the prince look like a wartime warrior when he used the lance on the horse. It made me like him more. I didn’t think of it as making him unlikable. Then again, I have a very bare minimum concept of the rules in jousting. This video you made showed me how complex as a sport jousting is. Keep up the good work. Awesome video.
There's also very little neck protection. No mail hanging off the helmet, no mail around the neck, no padding at all, and certainly no gorget that extends up the neck, just the upper chest. You can clearly see bare neck between the bottom of his helmet and the top of his chest armor, and his throat is completely exposed.
About number 11. Are mounted knights that valuable when you have dragons? With a lack of external enemies, I think it makes sense people are more aggressive towards their rivals. Overall I like your comparison of the movie to medieval times. Great work!
Aren't modern tanks still supported by foot soldiers as opposed to going solo? Even if you have big guns, it would be wise to back them up with your other arsenal.
@@cadethumann8605 That is true. But if we want to make that comparision the best modern equivalent for a dragon would be a drone. Which can do solo missions. Well at least if you dont count the whole intel part. But that is also rarely done by noble knights.
Is that a funny typo at 2:03? "To demonstrate prowness"? Prowess, I could see, but to determine which knight has the... biggest prow? Or is more prow-like? Also, not planning on watching the GoT spinoff, in any case, so I'm watching the video and ignoring the spoiler warning. ;)
Open faced helmets make sense when you aren't able to know ahead of time just exactly what you might encounter, it seems pretty silly when you know that you're definitely just going to be charging a man with a pointy stick
Also, adding to helmet flying off. Depending on type of helmet, you don't aleays have it strapped. For example, I wear bolzano style helmet in cavalry type, on mail coif and secret helmet. Secret helmet I do have strapped, but great helmet is not, it's just put on. There were some rare instances when I was thrown down and my great helmet flew off
i think, from only looking at the footage, the princes bull shaped helmet could be made as a visor and could symbolise a charging bull when pulled down for jousting
Love your videos I hope you can review more historical stuff from the House of the Dragon
2 роки тому
About open helmet for the joust duel (not joust-related activities, like gathering rings with a lance) - as far as I see all examples with more open helmet include full throat protection, not a bit of lower throat protection that Daemon has.
Having had my shoulder dislocated from an impact, involving two people running into each other while my arm was held up high like that, I have to wonder whether that was more likely using the high elbow lance-hold instead of having it couched.
Another aspect of the joust/tourney was that the winner may have had the right to his foe's armour, helm etc. William the Marshall made both his name and his fortune on the tournament circuit (before going on to serve 3 kings (4 if you include Henry the young King)
Thank you so much for this Metatron! I thought a lot of these same things when I watched, and I also want to remind people that this IS a Fantasy world with magic and such - why *should* things have to strictly adhere to history as we know it? Daemon's armor shows his rich family, the history of Targaryens with dragons, and his pride and confidence with having an open helmet. He dishonorably takes out his opponent's horse instead of just to cheaply win. He cares about HIS ego, and doesn't care if people hate him or fear him for it.matt Smith did a great job showing us that Daemon thought about just dying instead of accepting a loss, but a dead man can't take revenge. Daemon's actions and words in other episodes reflect this mentality consistently. Not that I'm some expert or enthusiast, but it seems that if you want a more accurate modern depiction of jousting, A Knight's Tale is probably a better way to go. The world of Westeros isn't meant to be our reality, so I like the blend of historical facts and fantasy elements (some are there for production convenience too). What a great excuse to talk about both things! ✌😊
The crusades were basically an excuse to give the Norman and Northern French knights and lesser nobles something to do besides kill and raid each other as well as the tournaments (which were basically pre arranged battles at the time) kept getting out of hand and ending with genuine full on violence and pillaging/damaging of towns and farms. Pretty sure one ended with at least two villages getting burned down. This was also why they slowly evolved into these more controllable events with more rules. I think the killing in the tournament to celebrate a birth seems pretty implausible. They should have at least made it seem like it was breaking tradition because their line about this happening when we don’t have war doesn’t make sense unless that was out of the ordinary. Yet no one seemed shocked beyond it being an exciting moment in the tournament and no one talked about it afterwards. So, it seems like it’s tradition that they start killing each other when there hasn’t been a war recently and yet it goes uncommented on by anyone but one old lady and it doesn’t seem to be something worth fixing or even noting by anyone else.
20:30 - I have watched one historian analysing the scene. He said that it would be the royal family who would immediately remove the idiot from joust - just to preserve the honor, since stuff like this is major misconduct. He mentioned problem with lance length and impact too.
Love the historical references to back everything up. That's what separates an educational video from a purely entertainment one. Also the dancing knight is.... Weird.
Striking a horse could be considered an illegal strike in certain circumstances, with penalties that ranged from disqualification to being compelled to give up one’s own horse and armor to an opponent if you slew their horse.
Maybe it’s just me, but it feels like in some of those illuminations showing either no visor or no helmet, it still looks like some variety of neck/throat protection was being used. Perhaps even the more dashing and daring knights even still had some reservations about leaving their top completely exposed?
Jousting is the official State sport of Maryland. Also, thanks for mentioning Chaucer's "The Knight's Tale," because that's where my mind immediately went.
Mistery Knight is a big thing in ASOIAF. I can remember three famous Mistery Knights mentioned. -Aemon the Dragonknight took part as a Mistery Knight in a tournament because he was forbidden by his King to join it -Ser Barristan Selmy was such a legend that he competed at the age of 10 as a Mistery Knight -and in the biggest Tournament of all Time at Harrenhall a Knight called the Knight of the Laughing tree fought three outher Knights. When the King wanted his/her head the Knight escaped
Don’t jousts have a point system where points are allocated to combatants based on where they struck their opponent? Didn’t see anything like that in the scene. How are they supposed to keep track of who’s winning?
So *some* knights or royals in Naples did the whole mystery knight thing to, if their opponent actually won, let them *have* their victory instead of the royal being declared the winner in spite of their obviously having lost. That's surprisingly conscientious of them. Also, would it be considered illegal to *dodge* your opponents lance, then spin around and jab them in the back as they passed?
I would say it's not very practical. A lance works a lot with the charge of the horse. It's less about a jab and more about blunt impact. It wouldn't work against an opponent clad in jousting armor.
Good luck trying to hit someone on the back, when both of you are going opposite directions.. And even if you somehow manage to do it, the impact would be extremely weak. I think it would be impossible to knock someone off their horse that way. The only reason I would see someone even trying such a thing, would be to taunt/mock your opponent and or to be a show off.
I'm aware of that, but that wasn't the question; the question was whether or not dodging your opponents lance then doing that would be considered *illegal* , and get anyone who did it penalized or disqualified.
@@ezrafaulk3076 I don't think it's illegal per say, in the same sense that it's not illegal to play football (soccer if you're in the US) by standing on your hands as long as use your feet for the ball. It's just so wildly bizarre to do. Edit: something that wasn't mentionned in the video, because it's self-evident in the historical community but almost entirely unknown in pop-culture, is that the goal of jousting wasn't usually to unhorse your opponent, but to perform nice hits. Think of it as a scoring system based on technique like modern gymnastics. Breaking a lance on impact drove crowds mad with admiration.
@@metatronyt I meant nothing bad sir. I enjoy your videos. I was just throwing out my random, not expert, thoughts. I know paintings from any time period can be embellished, like stories around a campfire from one generation to the next, and that is where I was going.
I actually prefer if reactors are clueless about Daemon and that he's growing on them. Happened with Jaime Lannister too. People hated him in S1 & S2. He looked like Prince Charming from the Shrek movies. Daemon is complicated. Newbies who never read the books will love him and hate him at the same time. He's a grey character as George R.R. Martin has said numerous times. He's dashing, daring, and dangerous. He's popular with books fans for a reason. It's more satisfying when your feelings changes for a character after each episode. Some of my best friends I hated when I first met them. The unpredictability is exciting. I hated Jaime Lannister initially and only grew to love him by S3 when he saved Brienne from getting gang raped. Daemon has that compassion in him too. There is good in him like Anakin. Bad*ss with a heart of gold are the fun ones to follow. But when Blood and Cheese happens, some may hate Daemon forever after that. All these characters can be bad including Rhaenyra. You'll see. GRRM likes them grey.
I'm not making a mistake because that is exactly how the name is pronounced in England and Metatron was referencing an English nobleman. The Beauchamps accompanied William on his conquest of Britian in 1066. They eventually became the lords of Worcestershire, Somerset and Bedfordshire. Their name would have been pronounced in the French fashion when they 1st arrived but by the English fashion of beechum by the time Metatron mentioned them. And it is how the name is still pronounced today in England. I am 100% correct.
Just so you know... I recently discovered by a video by "Erics hobby workshop" that there is an old jousting game for Warhammer fantasy. There are free rules available as it was in a white dwarf magazine ages ago and scans/photographs have been published. This game is to be played with bretonian knights. As those guys have made an appearance in your Instagram you might give that game a shot (if your knights weren't sold before the move).
I wish they'd shown *_the scope_* of a Medieval-era joust, & with the world of Westeros in mind - like, the Northerners would certainly have _attended_ jousts, of course- but the North had little heavy horse, & few were of the Faith of the Seven, essential for 'knighthood'-proper. Most Northerners would have competed in events like melee, sword on foot, & archery, for sure- & maybe something like riding at rings, but I don't think anyone other than Manderlys & Woolfields were capable of competing at the main event of a tourney. I was disappointed that they supposedly 'didn't want to repeat themselves' which is why they changed the F&B description of the death of Ser Joffrey Lonmouth at the wedding tourney of Rhaenyra & Laenor - like you said, deaths at tourney _could_ obviously be objectionable, but were not impossible to pass off as an unfortunate accident; if their issue was cost- surely there were creative ways the second tourney could have been filmed, in order to both save money & put the focus on the aftermath - with Harwin's injury, & Joffrey's eventual death, & people's reactions. I *knew* that trip was a huge rule break- & I couldn't work out why there wasn't more of an issue made of it: a scene of Viserys or someone high up, shaking their head, disappointed- with muted responses from the audience, & later on- if he were to approach a group of fellow knights, showing their disapproval subtly. It's not that they had to bring the story to a screeching halt to do these things- but making it more dynamic, & giving the world a greater depth would serve to ground things better in an in-universe reality; the reigns of Jaehaerys I & Viserys I were the Targaryens at the height of their prestige- but the show didn't make me feel like that was what I was seeing. There was a shallowness (& even at times, a nonsensical quality): to events, to relationships. I wanted to be more invested with characters & the story than I was. It was a respectable production, with good elements & wonderful performances- but it _could_ have been great- especially with just two extra episodes, to give us some breathing room & time to get into the world more...
Very nice! I also thought it was a bold choice of Damon Targaryen to joust with an open helmet, but this character is portrayed as reckless, vain and generally a total arse throughout the series. It's Matt Smith's excellent portrayal of the character that still keeps me rooting for him to some degree
Great video. Really useful going to sources in the medieval period although of course Westeros has geographical differences to medieval Europe. Something I found interesting at the Royal Armouries jousts at the end of August were that the jousters didn't appear to be wearing any mail in the gaps I.e. armpits, crotch etc. Is this historic or inaccurate? While the lance points were probably very weak I would have thought it'd be safer and more protective to wear mail in these gaps rather than just relying on your arming doublet/gambeson.
I imagine holding a lance elbow up when he could (or should) be holding it couched could easily be interpreted as an insult to one's opponent. "I think so lowly of you that I'm going to beat you with an inferior technique." sort of attitude. The audience might not realize that's going on, but the other knight would. It's something i would probably write if i was writing a joust scene.
I'm so thrilled that we're not only getting a new Westeros series where GRRM Martin himself is hugely involved rendering it canon, but by all analyses the quality of historicity has increased tremendously compared to earlier works of medieval fiction or medieval movies.
I think it would have been nice to give Zac more credit in this video. Did you know about the loose strapping of the helm and some contestants objecting to that and saying it should be illegal, but it remaining legal anyone because of the risk vs. benefit angle before watching his video? Also, when he mentions holding the lance high rather than couched his main gripe is that it wouldn't deliver the type of impact shown. Which I find quite likely considering the development of the couching technique, lance arrest, etc. Otherwise nice video and glad to see you weighing in on this!
Yes I did know about that, and I mention it on this video, in the section about the helmet flying off. Still, I did give him a lot of credit if you watch the several times I talk about him. Yes I do agree with him that the impact would be less strong with the high elbow stance, I did say that I agree with him on that, the only thing I disagreed with, again if I did understand him correctly, is that he said it wasn’t historical. But maybe it was just me misunderstanding what he meant when he said that
@@metatronyt Fair enough! You do mention his video for sure, which is great, but it seemed mostly to disagree with him on a couple of points to me. Not that disagreement is in itself a bad thing. As a big fan of both channels I suppose I was just expecting more of a shoutout on some of those specific points. No biggy, keep on with the good stuff.
Small correction - it’s named Westminster not West Minister, Minster being an Anglo Saxon word for a church, ultimately from Latin monasterium, not to do with minister
Absolutely awesome video mate, LOVED the additional references you shared, might have even convinced me to change my mind about Damon's armor ^_^
Hey Shad, I agree that HOTD is written so much better than the Rings of Power, which is a shame because Tolkien is my favorite high fantasy author, I'm just glad that both of these shows didn't start out as a complete train wreck. I'm actually planning to get involved with tourneys in the UK once I move to Wales from Canada, I can't wait to reconnect with my family's medieval roots, we even have an ancestral castle on the Gower! Looking forward to your future content and keep up the good work.
Love your work shad, big fan of your castle
The scales look like they are embossed on the plate, and not actual scale armour to me.
@@HS-su3cf I agree. It's clearly not scale armour.
perhaps you can change your mind on your bigotry
Great video analysis. really enjoyed that research too. Almost identical to my thoughts on the whole thing, down to personal choice to be less well armed in the face. The 'uncouched' lance technique enables a stabbing motion too, which has less impact but some people prefer to use. It also gives you much more post impact control.
Hey Jason! Thank you very much for your comment and for watching. It’s always an honour.
that does make sense that there would be and advantage at the cost of loosing some power makes sense why people would have done it historically. I would be really interested in hearing about the difference nuances of jousting techniques
I guess the stabbing motion probably added a little range to the lance and possibly helps in gaining first contact in the joust; I wonder if that first contact even if less powerful might at least increase the chance that the opponent's own strike becomes less true.
Thanks for the shout out Metatron. Love the amount of work you put into every video.
In regards to the high elbow, you could probably use a high elbow to knock someone off if you're also using arrets on the lance and cuirass, but in this case the power is transferred through the arrets rather than the strength of the couch. I am not personally familiar with this style of jousting, (although my new harness will have an arret) so do not know how much of a couch you still need to keep the lance arrets connected.
They're not using arrets in House of the dragon, so a high elbow isn't going to give enough power to knock someone off like we see in the show.
My pleasure and thank you for the explanation. I thoroughly enjoyed your video on Hotd, you bring to the table a lot of practical perspective I certainly don’t have. Very appreciated
In regards to the high elbow stance, quite a few of the images where I find it don’t show a lance rest. So that makes me imagine that they did use it regardless. Perhaps when breaking the lance was the main objective. With that being said, In defense of your point, I wonder if it’s just the artist’s omission, rather than the knight not having it. On the imagery from the battle of San Romano, the knights have that strange grip with both hands which also results in a high elbow, but I believe those do have a rest. Who knows.
@@metatronyt It's difficult to say for sure. What I can share is that numerous modern jousters have recieved broken thumbs/wrists from not couching their lances correctly, as it applies all of the strength of the impact to the wrist/thumb. Its never happened to me, but I have experienced massive kickback from my own lance and wouldn't want to chance it.
The splendor of a late medieval tourney and the bloodshed if an early medieval tourney.....westeros is wild man xD
Where the earlier ones that bad?
@@valipunctro they could be depending on the level of formality/lack thereof agreed upon by the combatants
@@valipunctro most of the time, no
That's the thing. Westeros is like the Late Medieval Period of Europe, but even more brutal.
@@perfectibility999 medieval Europe but as brutal as medieval china lol
This commentary actually made me appreciate the details in Knight’s Tale better. Things like hitting shields to choose weapons and the focus on protecting yourself with your armor we’re done decently well.
I wanted more commentary on Hightower's armor. The crested greathelm was absolutely AWESOME
Love that they did these crazy helmet designs for the tourney too because they’re everywhere in the books. Dragon helms, unicorn horns, big ass antlers, I just love the over the top dedication to heraldry
@@johnnysmall
They're well represented in The Hedge Knight comics, especially the Beratheon antlers.
@@johnnysmall Jaime has a helmet that looks like a lion in the books
was dumb; a helmet is there to protect the head, not to look fancy and add trouble by giving it that taller shape. To look cool there's fancy clothes, helmets are there to stop their skull from breaking or worst. It shows the character is an imbecille or someone who wants to look good before idiots in universe, or people watching the fictional world who don't care about consistency that much. But I assume is in universe for the sake of immersion, so the guy is an attention seeker or an idiot.
@@businessproyects2615 imagine being this salty about the coolest helmet in the 7 kingdoms
I love the respect you show to other channels and varying opinions.
U.S. steel infantry helmets ( at least when I wore one ) had both a solid catch ( for regular maneuvers ) and a ball-and-fork friction clasp for combat, so that a glancing blow from shrapnel or a bullet wouldn't break your neck ( hopefully ). And returning to your starting point is totally reasonable. It's where your squire and equipment are, should anything need repair. Just as boxers return to their corner.
16:34 In the first ASOIAF book Ned convinces King Robert not to compete in the melee tournament, and it was later revealed that they planned to assassinate him during the fight.
Wow this is a well researched video. I've learnt quite a lot about medieval jousting tournaments. Thank you man this is great! 👏👏👏
Finally! The Metatron returns! His genius is the only thing that keeps me going sometimes! A day without the Metatron is like a day without sunshine and I hate cloudy days! Bow down before the Metatron!!!!!
:D
I second that emotion 👍🏻
Can't wait to see your take on The Rings of Power.
Nothing makes sense there. Curious too.
oh dear. Well, I can see him having an issue with the Elven plate armor we see early on. Numenor looks pretty decent so far though. One of the swords looked like a toy though. I’m unsure if he’ll talk about story/writing, which might be a good thing lol.
@@LeftJoystick The writing is the worst part of the show. You don't have to have read Tolkien like I have to recognize how bad it is, just on a purely logical level. Shadiversity actually goes in depth how bad the writing is.
@@ctam79 Trust me, I agree lol. Which is why I think Metatron will focus more on the armor and weapons and stay out of the writing lol.
You mean The Rings of Prime
You make a great point about the helmet. I too thought this is suicide, but the concept of a daring knight who's ready to face such danger isn't all that unlikely. I guess the show could've done a better job at highlighting the risk Daemon's willing to take by having someone comment on it. This way it feels a little unintentional, but who knows.
Been binge watching your content recently. Really like your quality and consistency in your videos. Keep it up
Thanks!
Great analysis, as usual.
I must say that I enjoyed the part of the mounted jousting, apart from some perplexities about Daemon tripping the opponent's horse, which however could be explained by his status and personality, same with the otherwise incredibly dangerous open helmet.
I was quite taken off by the subsequent deathmatches on the ground, mostly because those knights to my understanding were not random men-at-arms but belonged to noble families on Westeros, which made me wonder whether a tournament with participants stupidly fighting to the death would not be the cause for bloody feuds among powerful houses and potential wars. Unless I missed something, it was never said that the knights killing one another had open matters to settle, so it looked to me like an idiotic event to set up (losing knights that would be useful to have available in case of war + causing frictions among nobles in the realm).
Thanks!
To verify that I am truly Admiral Dobson of the International Space Agency.
I have followed some of your work.
As I said in my other comment!
I have dedicated my entire life to understanding the ancient past of Earth.
From The Stars Some Of Us Came!
To The Stars Some Of Us Will Return!
Our Brother ~ Elon Musk
He Knows The Truth!
As I Also Know The Truth!
Ad-Astra
Best Regards
The Admiral
I think the loosely strapped helmet might also be a safety measure. I know that modern military helmets have a safety feature, that when activated, allows the helmet to be knocked off. While it is also used to be able to knock of ones helmet to be faster when donning a gas mask I've also heard that it is used when soldiers expect to be potentially entangled or get caught with their helmet. This way the helmet will fall off but their is no risk of injury to the neck.
I don't know if knights might have considered this but I can imagine that it happened that a struck helmet might have broken a knights neck.
I have the weirdest feeling that you could hold a joust for almost any event or occurrence. Heck, I wouldn't find it odd to think of somebody deciding to hold a joust just because they got a brand spankin' new set of jousting armor.
Or a "Day that ends with a Y joust!"
At St Inglevert 3 French knights held a 30 day long joust because they wanted to.
Renee of Anjou states one of the reasons to have a tournament is so the young men can impress young women.
It's not exactly Medieval but I think Henry VIII did exactly this numerous times and not just for jousting but also melees and other weird events that he cooked up just so he could have a suit of armour specifically made for it.
@@Adam_okaay Wouldn't surprise me; judging from what I've read about him, Henry VIII looked for any excuse to make himself look good.
Dang it,I love you bru. The way you use all sorts of GREAT reference's, just epic. Love it all! Keep up the good work my guy.
This is probably my first time viewing your content in a very long time. I watched a couple of your videos on the past but were never too interested. This video has made me decide to go back and watch all your content, I think more stuff like this historical review video is really good! Thank you for the video.
UA-cam recommended this and I'm so glad it did. Very interesting, thank you for your insight!
Love how the Dragonkeeper in episode 2, while speaking Valyrian, pronounces Daemon with the Latin AE.
There’s a few moments in GoT when people introducing Daenerys in Valyrian do the same thing. It’s not consistent but I did love when they did it.
Fantastic video! Thanks for bringing something new to this subject. I love this level of discussion between all of your channels.
My pleasure and thank you for watching and commenting. Very appreciated
Great review.
What i also liked on the show, was the small things. Like the introduction of the Velaryon, where you have the Small Banners. I Thing this was realy down. Banners was not only used as a Sign for REgiments or Armys or Kings on the Battlefield. It was also very good Symbol for the Family and there Household.
This was one of your most entertaining videos Metatron, I can see your enthusiasm in commentating it and your attitude in general was very positive throughout. Cheers mate!
I love when several of my subscribed channels cover the same subject. Always interesting to see how you guys manage to give a different point of view from the others. I assume we´re going to get more of these in coming weeks.
Incredibly detailed and thorough video! Well explained, really enjoyed it!
*The problem with the show's scale armor is that the scales are irregular, and it almost looks like they tried to give it the appearance of dragon leather, rather than actual scale armor.*
really good video! easily the best breakdown of that scene so far. keep up the great work
Just a little correction about pronunciation. I know that it's very common to omit the last letter in French but the S in Arras is not silent. But still, great video as always. People like Shad, Matt and you are doing an amazing job educating plebs like me.
I'd also like to add a bit more on Daemon's helm, the lack of mail to protect the neck.
Also, it's "prowess," not "prowness."
And Warwick is pronounced Warrick.
Great video. Loved all of it and the description of why the lance tripping the horse wouldn't work makes perfect sense and I don't know why people haven't reacted to it more. Even I could see it :)
The joust is not consistent with the internal logic of the books.
Robert Baratheon screaming stop this madness, and it's the Mountain, a wild dog, on a rampage. Meaning you don't expect normal knights to go on such rampages.
And we are talking about the king Robert Baratheon, who is a brute who loves tourneys
Well in the books that doesn't happen at all, it was just a normal tourney. I'm not sure why they decided to make this change, but it was very puzzling for book readers because a bunch of lords dying would have huge consequences for the realm.
@@guillermojaime1772 exactly.
Including feuds between major houses.
Because one thing is an accident.
Another thing is a son, a cousin, a brother, fallen on the ground, and a guy comes and splits his head open to the point people around vomit.
The king was absent; caring for his wife.
@@HolyknightVader999 Robert Batatheon is not the king in this series. Nor The Mountain was born yet. This is 190 years before
A brilliantly detailed and well thought out video. Well done Metatron 👍
great video! at 16:33 tho it cuts out the last bit of u saying joust. Also I really like the b roll footage of castles and swords n stuff looks amazing! and I really like how you added to the conversation from the other youtubers and were so positive and charitable with understanding their perspective
I am always very impressed with the depth and breadth of your research. Excellent, and much appreciated.
I was waiting for your take on this!
I really did enjoy all of the analysis given by the community. Overall, I think this jousting scene was great. What we maybe must not forget is Prince Daemon's character. Due to that, I think his tactics and employment of options is very fitting for him, also the open-faced helmet (daredevil).
Regarding his armour, it looked a bit like the "heroica" style of which, as far as I know, Tobias Capwell had one made for himself. Daemon's is much darker, but still looked very impressive and very much different from his opponents' armours.
A lot of good points. I’d like to add that a horse wouldn’t let anything moving just attack its legs like that either. Most likely it would have lunged over it or to the right away from the evil object. It’s one thing to run through people who are on foot and another for the horse to see where a long stick begins and ends coming towards it.
Great breakdown. Really appreciate your take on this scene
Excellent topic, i see this one becoming viral in a couple weeks or months.
I'm pretty sure the scales that Shad is talking about is the "dragon hide" that is incorporated in the princes armor. He also didn't say that the butt flaps were not authentic but just looked weird. Loved your video though look forward to more
I haven't read the books, because he didn't finish the 1st series (fool me once...), but when I saw Daemon with the open face helm it gave me the impression that he was showing his disdain for danger and it seemed to fit into what I gathered of his character thus far.
Beauchamp is pronounced beech-um in english. I know it's strange. I liked your pronunciation, sounded french. Much better than the way I butchered it, something like bow-camp, until I learned that it was pronounced the way it is. Never would have guessed. Thanks for another great video.
Beauchamp is a french name lol
@@doigt6590 I figured it was but it is pronounced beechum in England
@@robo5013 It doesn't matter what it's pronounced like in england because it's wrong. Ad populum my friend, that's the name of the mistake you're committing.
@@doigt6590 No, he's right. It's pronounced "Beechum".
@@wildwood9844 that is incorrect, the true pronunciation is always from the country of origin. As a french name, the correct pronunciation is the french one. I would make an exception for a tentative pronunciation of beauchamp into bo-sha, bo-shan or bo-sham since that's the closest the english accent, without training, can provide. Anything else is incorrect.
Glad to see you back
Great stuff. The lance used to trip a horse is the one issue that sticks out for me but hey, not everything has to be ultra-realistic, a certain artistic licence is perfectly ok in a fantasy show (and this is very a good one).
Glad to see you post House of the Dragon related. Hope you can do reaction or at least review videos too if possible! Thank you!
I think it's fine if things like laws and rules aren't exactly historically accurate. It is fantasy, and from the tone I'd assume the laws and rules to be less idealistic. So some of the things we might consider wrong, even from a historical medieval perspective, might not be quite as wrong in the story's perspective.
Awesome video as always. I saw episode 1 this morning and your video came up on my wall today. In my opinion I thought they wanted to make the prince look like a wartime warrior when he used the lance on the horse. It made me like him more. I didn’t think of it as making him unlikable. Then again, I have a very bare minimum concept of the rules in jousting. This video you made showed me how complex as a sport jousting is. Keep up the good work. Awesome video.
There's also very little neck protection. No mail hanging off the helmet, no mail around the neck, no padding at all, and certainly no gorget that extends up the neck, just the upper chest. You can clearly see bare neck between the bottom of his helmet and the top of his chest armor, and his throat is completely exposed.
As always, accurate, documented, and well researched.
About number 11.
Are mounted knights that valuable when you have dragons?
With a lack of external enemies, I think it makes sense people are more aggressive towards their rivals.
Overall I like your comparison of the movie to medieval times. Great work!
dragon’s can’t guard a castle or hold a street corner. It’s true today and it would be even more true back then.
@@AlvorReal so, knights in that context are not the ones who decisively win battles like in medieval times, but more like town militia. Got it.
@@AlvorReal To be fair neither do knights.... that was the duty of the common man.
Aren't modern tanks still supported by foot soldiers as opposed to going solo? Even if you have big guns, it would be wise to back them up with your other arsenal.
@@cadethumann8605 That is true. But if we want to make that comparision the best modern equivalent for a dragon would be a drone. Which can do solo missions. Well at least if you dont count the whole intel part. But that is also rarely done by noble knights.
You are an awesome researcher, Metatron.
Wow Metatron! I like your work very much, but this has to be one of your best videos ever!
Is that a funny typo at 2:03? "To demonstrate prowness"?
Prowess, I could see, but to determine which knight has the... biggest prow? Or is more prow-like?
Also, not planning on watching the GoT spinoff, in any case, so I'm watching the video and ignoring the spoiler warning. ;)
No, Metatron goes on to mispronounce it in the same way later on. I think he thinks it's "prowness" but it is actually "prowess".
@@wildwood9844 Amusing, though.
Open faced helmets make sense when you aren't able to know ahead of time just exactly what you might encounter, it seems pretty silly when you know that you're definitely just going to be charging a man with a pointy stick
Great Breakdown.
Also, adding to helmet flying off. Depending on type of helmet, you don't aleays have it strapped. For example, I wear bolzano style helmet in cavalry type, on mail coif and secret helmet. Secret helmet I do have strapped, but great helmet is not, it's just put on. There were some rare instances when I was thrown down and my great helmet flew off
Holding your lance elbow out was called ''ye olde gangsta-style''
i think, from only looking at the footage, the princes bull shaped helmet could be made as a visor and could symbolise a charging bull when pulled down for jousting
Love your videos I hope you can review more historical stuff from the House of the Dragon
About open helmet for the joust duel (not joust-related activities, like gathering rings with a lance) - as far as I see all examples with more open helmet include full throat protection, not a bit of lower throat protection that Daemon has.
Good old Defender of the crown. I was marking the monitor with a marker where the lance have to be to win.
Having had my shoulder dislocated from an impact, involving two people running into each other while my arm was held up high like that, I have to wonder whether that was more likely using the high elbow lance-hold instead of having it couched.
Very good video!
Another aspect of the joust/tourney was that the winner may have had the right to his foe's armour, helm etc. William the Marshall made both his name and his fortune on the tournament circuit (before going on to serve 3 kings (4 if you include Henry the young King)
Thank you so much for this Metatron! I thought a lot of these same things when I watched, and I also want to remind people that this IS a Fantasy world with magic and such - why *should* things have to strictly adhere to history as we know it?
Daemon's armor shows his rich family, the history of Targaryens with dragons, and his pride and confidence with having an open helmet. He dishonorably takes out his opponent's horse instead of just to cheaply win. He cares about HIS ego, and doesn't care if people hate him or fear him for it.matt Smith did a great job showing us that Daemon thought about just dying instead of accepting a loss, but a dead man can't take revenge. Daemon's actions and words in other episodes reflect this mentality consistently.
Not that I'm some expert or enthusiast, but it seems that if you want a more accurate modern depiction of jousting, A Knight's Tale is probably a better way to go. The world of Westeros isn't meant to be our reality, so I like the blend of historical facts and fantasy elements (some are there for production convenience too). What a great excuse to talk about both things! ✌😊
I'm a simple man, I see Metatron, and I click.
as do the 100s of 1000s of other “simple” people that write this same thing on other videos.
@@morfeubranco To the Millions...and Billions. Of the Rock's fans
The crusades were basically an excuse to give the Norman and Northern French knights and lesser nobles something to do besides kill and raid each other as well as the tournaments (which were basically pre arranged battles at the time) kept getting out of hand and ending with genuine full on violence and pillaging/damaging of towns and farms. Pretty sure one ended with at least two villages getting burned down. This was also why they slowly evolved into these more controllable events with more rules.
I think the killing in the tournament to celebrate a birth seems pretty implausible. They should have at least made it seem like it was breaking tradition because their line about this happening when we don’t have war doesn’t make sense unless that was out of the ordinary. Yet no one seemed shocked beyond it being an exciting moment in the tournament and no one talked about it afterwards. So, it seems like it’s tradition that they start killing each other when there hasn’t been a war recently and yet it goes uncommented on by anyone but one old lady and it doesn’t seem to be something worth fixing or even noting by anyone else.
Another top video!
Man that brigandine is just beautiful
20:30 - I have watched one historian analysing the scene. He said that it would be the royal family who would immediately remove the idiot from joust - just to preserve the honor, since stuff like this is major misconduct. He mentioned problem with lance length and impact too.
Love the historical references to back everything up. That's what separates an educational video from a purely entertainment one.
Also the dancing knight is.... Weird.
Striking a horse could be considered an illegal strike in certain circumstances, with penalties that ranged from disqualification to being compelled to give up one’s own horse and armor to an opponent if you slew their horse.
Maybe it’s just me, but it feels like in some of those illuminations showing either no visor or no helmet, it still looks like some variety of neck/throat protection was being used. Perhaps even the more dashing and daring knights even still had some reservations about leaving their top completely exposed?
Since the season has ended, will you do any more analysis of the medieval elements of the series?
Jousting is the official State sport of Maryland. Also, thanks for mentioning Chaucer's "The Knight's Tale," because that's where my mind immediately went.
Mistery Knight is a big thing in ASOIAF.
I can remember three famous Mistery Knights mentioned.
-Aemon the Dragonknight took part as a Mistery Knight in a tournament because he was forbidden by his King to join it
-Ser Barristan Selmy was such a legend that he competed at the age of 10 as a Mistery Knight
-and in the biggest Tournament of all Time at Harrenhall a Knight called the Knight of the Laughing tree fought three outher Knights. When the King wanted his/her head the Knight escaped
2:03
Prawness? 🍤🦐
Don’t jousts have a point system where points are allocated to combatants based on where they struck their opponent? Didn’t see anything like that in the scene. How are they supposed to keep track of who’s winning?
Number of broken lances ;)
So *some* knights or royals in Naples did the whole mystery knight thing to, if their opponent actually won, let them *have* their victory instead of the royal being declared the winner in spite of their obviously having lost. That's surprisingly conscientious of them.
Also, would it be considered illegal to *dodge* your opponents lance, then spin around and jab them in the back as they passed?
I would say it's not very practical. A lance works a lot with the charge of the horse. It's less about a jab and more about blunt impact. It wouldn't work against an opponent clad in jousting armor.
Good luck trying to hit someone on the back, when both of you are going opposite directions.. And even if you somehow manage to do it, the impact would be extremely weak. I think it would be impossible to knock someone off their horse that way.
The only reason I would see someone even trying such a thing, would be to taunt/mock your opponent and or to be a show off.
I'm aware of that, but that wasn't the question; the question was whether or not dodging your opponents lance then doing that would be considered *illegal* , and get anyone who did it penalized or disqualified.
@@ezrafaulk3076 I don't think it's illegal per say, in the same sense that it's not illegal to play football (soccer if you're in the US) by standing on your hands as long as use your feet for the ball. It's just so wildly bizarre to do.
Edit: something that wasn't mentionned in the video, because it's self-evident in the historical community but almost entirely unknown in pop-culture, is that the goal of jousting wasn't usually to unhorse your opponent, but to perform nice hits. Think of it as a scoring system based on technique like modern gymnastics. Breaking a lance on impact drove crowds mad with admiration.
6:49 Another idea: ¿What would happen to the guy that hurt Daemon Targaryen face? Yes, be sure your lance never goes close his face.
From a Medieval perspective that could actually make sense. The prince shows up with a barbute? Don’t hit the prince in the face.
Holding a Lance high in the paintings can also be a fantasy of the story being told.
There are really too many painting from all over Europe, so I’m convinced they actually did it
@@metatronyt I meant nothing bad sir. I enjoy your videos. I was just throwing out my random, not expert, thoughts. I know paintings from any time period can be embellished, like stories around a campfire from one generation to the next, and that is where I was going.
I actually prefer if reactors are clueless about Daemon and that he's growing on them. Happened with Jaime Lannister too. People hated him in S1 & S2. He looked like Prince Charming from the Shrek movies.
Daemon is complicated. Newbies who never read the books will love him and hate him at the same time. He's a grey character as George R.R. Martin has said numerous times. He's dashing, daring, and dangerous. He's popular with books fans for a reason.
It's more satisfying when your feelings changes for a character after each episode. Some of my best friends I hated when I first met them. The unpredictability is exciting. I hated Jaime Lannister initially and only grew to love him by S3 when he saved Brienne from getting gang raped.
Daemon has that compassion in him too. There is good in him like Anakin. Bad*ss with a heart of gold are the fun ones to follow. But when Blood and Cheese happens, some may hate Daemon forever after that. All these characters can be bad including Rhaenyra. You'll see. GRRM likes them grey.
Most people in general are gray; but we prefer to imagine and idealize and enjoy characters that aren't gray.
@@ManDuderGuy I dont. Puree good characters are incredibly boring and unrealistic most of the time especially in harsh realities like GOT.
@@wujekstalin1 Im with you. Jaime Lannister is my favorite character arc of Asoiaf, maybe in all fiction 😀
@Snorbo You can say that about every show or franchise in existence 🤦🏻♂️
I'm not making a mistake because that is exactly how the name is pronounced in England and Metatron was referencing an English nobleman. The Beauchamps accompanied William on his conquest of Britian in 1066. They eventually became the lords of Worcestershire, Somerset and Bedfordshire. Their name would have been pronounced in the French fashion when they 1st arrived but by the English fashion of beechum by the time Metatron mentioned them. And it is how the name is still pronounced today in England. I am 100% correct.
Yes, I think you're right. I would have pronounced it "Beechum" as well for the reasons you have outlined.
Just so you know... I recently discovered by a video by "Erics hobby workshop" that there is an old jousting game for Warhammer fantasy. There are free rules available as it was in a white dwarf magazine ages ago and scans/photographs have been published.
This game is to be played with bretonian knights. As those guys have made an appearance in your Instagram you might give that game a shot (if your knights weren't sold before the move).
I haven’t been hear in a while glad nothing has changed
@Metatron ti è capitato di vedere 'il gladiatore' del trono del muori? Se sì è storicamente corretto o c'è qualche incongruenza storica?
I wish they'd shown *_the scope_* of a Medieval-era joust, & with the world of Westeros in mind - like, the Northerners would certainly have _attended_ jousts, of course- but the North had little heavy horse, & few were of the Faith of the Seven, essential for 'knighthood'-proper.
Most Northerners would have competed in events like melee, sword on foot, & archery, for sure- & maybe something like riding at rings, but I don't think anyone other than Manderlys & Woolfields were capable of competing at the main event of a tourney.
I was disappointed that they supposedly 'didn't want to repeat themselves' which is why they changed the F&B description of the death of Ser Joffrey Lonmouth at the wedding tourney of Rhaenyra & Laenor - like you said, deaths at tourney _could_ obviously be objectionable, but were not impossible to pass off as an unfortunate accident; if their issue was cost- surely there were creative ways the second tourney could have been filmed, in order to both save money & put the focus on the aftermath - with Harwin's injury, & Joffrey's eventual death, & people's reactions.
I *knew* that trip was a huge rule break- & I couldn't work out why there wasn't more of an issue made of it: a scene of Viserys or someone high up, shaking their head, disappointed- with muted responses from the audience, & later on- if he were to approach a group of fellow knights, showing their disapproval subtly.
It's not that they had to bring the story to a screeching halt to do these things- but making it more dynamic, & giving the world a greater depth would serve to ground things better in an in-universe reality; the reigns of Jaehaerys I & Viserys I were the Targaryens at the height of their prestige- but the show didn't make me feel like that was what I was seeing. There was a shallowness (& even at times, a nonsensical quality): to events, to relationships. I wanted to be more invested with characters & the story than I was. It was a respectable production, with good elements & wonderful performances- but it _could_ have been great- especially with just two extra episodes, to give us some breathing room & time to get into the world more...
Boy, you've really done your homework for this. Great research.
Thank you Riccardo
15:01 is that James Purefoy's character in one of my all time favorite and severly underrated classic movie A Knights Tale?????
Very nice! I also thought it was a bold choice of Damon Targaryen to joust with an open helmet, but this character is portrayed as reckless, vain and generally a total arse throughout the series. It's Matt Smith's excellent portrayal of the character that still keeps me rooting for him to some degree
that's what I call a full analysis. Even using the word correct :'D Man I love ppl like u Metatron, it just makes my heart skip a beat :D
Great video. Really useful going to sources in the medieval period although of course Westeros has geographical differences to medieval Europe. Something I found interesting at the Royal Armouries jousts at the end of August were that the jousters didn't appear to be wearing any mail in the gaps I.e. armpits, crotch etc. Is this historic or inaccurate? While the lance points were probably very weak I would have thought it'd be safer and more protective to wear mail in these gaps rather than just relying on your arming doublet/gambeson.
*trumpets blaring*
Herald: "Hear ye! Hear ye! Before we begin this Joust, I would like to give a shout out to our sponsors; Raid Shadow Legends!"
I cry blood tears when I see Daemon joust with an open helmet.... 🥲
I imagine holding a lance elbow up when he could (or should) be holding it couched could easily be interpreted as an insult to one's opponent.
"I think so lowly of you that I'm going to beat you with an inferior technique." sort of attitude.
The audience might not realize that's going on, but the other knight would.
It's something i would probably write if i was writing a joust scene.
When you mentioned knights in disguise it reminded me of Ulrich Von Liechtenstein's "Venus journey", have you heard of it??
I'm so thrilled that we're not only getting a new Westeros series where GRRM Martin himself is hugely involved rendering it canon, but by all analyses the quality of historicity has increased tremendously compared to earlier works of medieval fiction or medieval movies.
I think it would have been nice to give Zac more credit in this video. Did you know about the loose strapping of the helm and some contestants objecting to that and saying it should be illegal, but it remaining legal anyone because of the risk vs. benefit angle before watching his video? Also, when he mentions holding the lance high rather than couched his main gripe is that it wouldn't deliver the type of impact shown. Which I find quite likely considering the development of the couching technique, lance arrest, etc. Otherwise nice video and glad to see you weighing in on this!
Yes I did know about that, and I mention it on this video, in the section about the helmet flying off. Still, I did give him a lot of credit if you watch the several times I talk about him. Yes I do agree with him that the impact would be less strong with the high elbow stance, I did say that I agree with him on that, the only thing I disagreed with, again if I did understand him correctly, is that he said it wasn’t historical. But maybe it was just me misunderstanding what he meant when he said that
@@metatronyt Fair enough! You do mention his video for sure, which is great, but it seemed mostly to disagree with him on a couple of points to me. Not that disagreement is in itself a bad thing. As a big fan of both channels I suppose I was just expecting more of a shoutout on some of those specific points. No biggy, keep on with the good stuff.
Small correction - it’s named Westminster not West Minister, Minster being an Anglo Saxon word for a church, ultimately from Latin monasterium, not to do with minister
I mean in the context of the show, Daemon is a crazy bastard, and he is definitely the type to wear a helmet like that in a joust