Forensic Psychology Weaponizes Mental Health in Johnny Depp Amber Heard Trial
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- The Johnny Depp Amber Heard Trial introduced me to the concept of Forensic Psychiatry or Forensic Psychology, and can I just say, I hate it. Forensic Mental Health (FMT) is used as a weapon in the courtroom, to stereotype both Johnny Depp and Amber Heard when it comes to their actions. I've seen the damage that this type of mental health stigma causes to my patients when working as a primary care nurse practitioner, and it's disgusting. Today, i'll use examples from the Johnny Depp Defamation trial, to demonstrate how both sides used mental health as a weapon by relying on stereotypes and assumptions.
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/ @nurseliz - Розваги
Emily d baker said amber said she has ptsd from her relationship with Johnny so they had to bring in the expert to run those tests. If she hadn’t said she had PTSD from all of this or said it affected her mentally the way that it did then they wouldn’t be bringing the specialist in. That’s why they never tested Johnny on anything he didn’t say he had any mental disorders.
Absolutely. It was center in Ambers counterclaim. She needed to prove PTSD for her damages claim and failed.
That's why it was so gross when Amber's lawyers implied Johnny had refused to be examined by Dr. Spiegel. They wanted the jury think he had some disorder he was hiding. It was the court that told them no.
@@MakerInMotion i think Amber wanted to make it sound like Johnny was hiding something and that he forced her to take a mental eval when she in fact placed her health at issue, not him.
Devil's advocate (maybe?): Could Nurse Liz be trying to say that claims of mental health issues should be kept out of the courts altogether? That is, if AH and her lawyers (and JD and his lawyers) were prevented from bringing up anything related to PTSD (and BPD and HPD), then it would logically follow that experts couldn't have been called to testify about the presence/absence of PTSD (and BPD and HPD). Perhaps, Nurse Liz is saying that the intersection of the mind and the law is too subjective for juries to handle, which seems more than a little patronizing.
As a daughter of someone who is a recovering addict, and friends with people who have BPD, I thoroughly enjoyed and agree watching this. Yes, people with these diagnoses can be scary or depressing to be around when they're at their worst, but they are people too and deserve compassion and the chance to make things better for themselves.
💜
As a hospice nurse, I just admitted a patient and her file made me want to cry. She has anxiety and her provider kept pushing off all of her symptoms as anxiety and actually used the words "I don't think she wants to get better" to the point where an otherwise treatable illness got to the point that hospice care was appropriate. I am just furious about this.
😡 This is awful!
Your empathy towards mental health disorders is astounding. We need more nurses like you in the mental health field.
Re: Dr. Hughes saying AH used substances as a coping mechanism- the thing not mentioned here is that while JD admitted to a physical dependence on opiates, he denied & minimized having SUD. He literally said he doesn’t have a problem w/ booze and he said repeatedly that he uses drugs/alcohol as his medicine/a way to cope. (Which is really what SUD is about, but I digress). He also said that what he was primarily trying to cope w/ was AH nagging & berating him. He conveniently skipped over the part where what she was nagging & berating him about was his alcohol/drug use & that the reason she was doing so was bcuz he repeatedly got angry, violent, jealous & paranoid when he was under the influence.
That is a fact that he has spoken about in interviews (when he first quit drinking hard liquor as a means of controlling himself), something that his past fiancé spoke about in her memoir, something he admitted to in text messages to her & other ppl & something we see in video & pictures (destroying property & the home you live in is 💯 aggression & violent behaviour & DV).
DV doesn’t have to present as physical violence against the person, and trying to hold your partner accountable to not engaging in behaviour that increases the likelihood of abusive behaviour is valid, especially when they have promised not to do it over & over. So JD getting loaded to cope w/ AH getting upset about him getting loaded bcuz he becomes angry & volatile & aggressive towards her when he’s loaded is an interesting take but what do i know 🤷🏼♀️ (actually a lot, I’m 15 yrs in recovery & grew up in a family w/ SUD & DV present in multiple ppl).
I personally also believe that he did become physically violent- and in that case, his staying sober was also directly related to her personal/physical safety so there’s that. Finally, JD has a long & documented history & diagnosis of SUD from his Dr. AH does not. So her having increased use of substances as a coping mechanism actually has more validity.
Whoever you are? Love this response because you reference the evidence. It came from the horse's mouth himself admissions of him becoming violent when using substances on many occasions. This wasn't just an invention of Amber's that came out of thin air.
@@Cleanergirl21 "Admissions of him becoming violent" -- please, cite. Thanks.
I truly believe that Heard will never seek mental help for herself. She sees nothing wrong with herself. She likes her life and has lived this way from childhood. She was abused as a child and teenager by her father. In turn made her violent. Against Whitney is a perfect example. Amber also killed a friend in a car accident. I think she had to do all kinds of community service. She tried to make it look like she was a giving caring person but she wasn't.
The defendant (Amber) waved her hippa rights though
I get that, and I understand that this is our legal system. I just hate how it's being flaunted and causing real harm to real people. I wish there was a perfect solution, but I'm not sure there is, sadly.
As a nurse who has mostly worked med Surg I 100% agree with the stigma behind mental health and our healthcare providers and nurses. It can be super frustrating for a nurse, especially a med Surg floor nurse to deal with patients who have substance abuse issues if they are in the hospital with say a wound or who has chronic pain because they will call out for medication every 1-3 hours and dealing with everything else you have to as a nurse it can get time consuming running to get pain meds for patients every 3 hours especially when you are caring for multiple patients who have a higher tolerance to the pain medication being provided. But it is so frustrating how many times I’ve seen other nurses be completely disrespectful to these patients and even use their delayed response to give these patients their requested pain medication (when it is within the time frame of them being able to get their pain medicine if the patient requests). I’ve seen nurses use it as a weapon and take there sweet time to get them their medicine (playing on their phone or gossiping) just because they are sick of being called every 1-3 hours by these patients. I’ve always tried to be respectful to every patient, a lot of nurses lack a lot of empathy for their patients unless they are 70 yr old plus grandmas who have chronic pain verses a 20-60 year old patient who’s pain is just not being well controlled due to their past or current drug or alcohol addiction and they need their morphine every 3 hours and Norco every 6 hrs. It’s frustrating as a nurse but there really needs to be more empathy towards these patients. No one fully knows what happened in their lives that had caused them to turn to these substances for emotional pain relief and I’m willing to bet that had these nurses have had to walk in their shoes, they’d probably have ended up in the very place their “pain in the butt” patients are in. It’s sad. Healthcare has been the most toxic environment I’ve ever worked in and the best part about my job has always been the patients. Most of the nurses I’ve worked with have been the most judgmental people I’ve ever been around in my life. As an empathetic person (been through a lot in my life as well so I can understand patients mental health issues from a different perspective at times and why they are where they are) but it makes it hard to work in this field with all the gossipy holier than thou medical professionals I’ve come across.
(Felt like I should add a general TW here)
I was thinking about the legal systems role in mental health earlier. I was in a state hospital and on my unit, I was the only one if 22 who was voluntary. Everyone else had gone to probate court and been found to be so sick that they required indefinite confinement in a long-term psychiatric hospital. About one third of the clients in my unit were there because they commit a minor crime (usually still violent) and the court put them in the hospital. There is a different hospital for people who commit murder or other more "serious" crimes. The problem with this is none of the people there after breaking the law wanted to get better. In fact, one woman regularly assaulted staff and other clients. The thing I was thinking about today was how someone could be there for no reason at all. I almost fought my sentence to this hospital and my lawyer advised me to go voluntarily because it looks better. They bring in a court-appointed psychologist and psychiatrist to evaluate you and they then will lock you up with no end date. I wasnt even a danger to others, I had attempted 4 times in 4 months and that meant that I had no option. I also have bpd. And you are right because even in the state hospital, my psychiatrist treated me like I was going to hurt myself every chance I got. I wasnt allowed crayons. I had to eat on 1:1.
Also, just to illustrate how awful this hospital is, we had no rooms. There are two hallways, one for men and one for women, with cubicals. I would not wish this on anyone. And it felt extremely punitive. I know this is slightly off-topic but metal health is weaponized even within the system.
Very helpful, thank you very much for making this.
Thank you very much for this!
I love this ! Thank you for sharing your stand!
Good points. Love how you explain it xx
Glad you liked it!
Both sides allowed medical professionals to give evidence and waived their rights. otherwise it would not have been allowed in the court. Amber Heard informed the court that she had been diagnosed with PTSD and wanted her medical professionals to testify to this, she was then required to be assessed by another psychologist to validate the findings. Both parties had to agree that medical records could be entered into court. Had Amber not insisted that her doc testify that she had PTSD no other medical info would have been brought into court.
Thank you
Totally get WHY they allowed the information in. It just is completely gross and something I think should not be allowed, in my opinion. Even if people allow it. It stigmatizes mental health so much
@@NurseLiz its gross to submit evidence, being medical records, to prove a case? Evidence is needed when one makes the type of egregious allegations she made. Sounds like youre more mad that Amber is being revealed as the fraud that she is.
Hi. Agree with your overall point, but can I just clear up that you're using both forensic psychology and forensic psychiatry interchangeably and they are not the same or interchangeable. Neither of the doctors in this trial are psychiatrists. Just an FYI.
I have to agree.
Thank you for pointing this out! I definitely should have explained that! Mostly so I could express how I I hate both equally 😂 should have mentioned that and explained lol. Thank you!
@@NurseLiz Whelp. We have an adversarial legal system. Prosecution = Whatever it takes to convict you. Defense = Whatever it takes to get you off. Truth = Meh if we get around to it...
Good discussion, nice to see your sub numbers go up because of the trial (I'm one that came over).
I agree that paying people to analyze one’s mental health in order to fit it into a preexisting narrative is in no way ok. However, forensic psychology as a discipline does play an important role in other types of case. They help determine if a person has the capacity to withstand trial and also helps with sentencing to decide if the person should receive rehabilitative care while incarcerated and what their mental sent and intent was at the time of their crime among other things as well. Essentially when they are serving in a different capacity then that of expert witness their services are important to fair legal proceedings
I appreciate your insight! i get that perspective. and that does seem important. In those cases I guess I wish that the information was kept confidential with just the final decision being public.
@@NurseLiz that’s actually what is typically done. in those cases the forensic psychologist is employed by the court and would report their recommendations directly to the judge who is the one who determines sentencing. I understand and agree with your stance of how mental health was weaponized in this particular case and likely many others. However, I feel like you made a lot of blanket statements about forensic psych as a discipline when, in most cases, their main purpose is to act as an advocate for the defendant’s mental health. Forensic psychologists also have published ground breaking literature on things like eyewitness testimony (among other things). I ask you look into the discipline as a whole before painting the entire profession in a bad light.
@@emilyelaine5597 very fair! I’ll definitely look more into it. Thanks!
The forensic psychologist did not consider anything from a trauma-informed perspective, nor was there any consideration for how PTSD would present for a DV victim vs how it would present for a combat vet. It also doesn’t consider how someone who has suffered trauma would present during a court ordered psych evaluation that was being done by someone paid by your abuser. And the idea that a clinical psychologist could diagnose someone who is being forced to participate in an evaluation in such a traumatic situation with TWO psych conditions and determine she doesn’t have another psych condition in 12 hours!
Parties waived their rights to the mental health evaluations by certain parties. Not all "experts" were allowed to do evaluations on the parties but they did provide their "opinion" lol. Weaponizing Johnny's SUD worked in the UK which is why I believe they tried to have the same tactics here in the US. I'm an acute detox rehab nurse so all of this was wildly entertaining to me. The meds they refused Johnny during detox, his struggles with relapsing and all..... It was heart breaking. I hear it from my patients all the time how people weaponize their mental health and it sends them right back into another relapse. One thing no one really mentioned was when she was trying to talk about the alleged damage to her nose when she went to an ENT..... no one asked her if the damage could be from the years of snorting ANY drug. Cocaine is not the only drug people snort so it is just odd to me that no one said anything about that when she claimed the damage was from punches. All the meds she was on and prescribed are meds my patients commonly report to snort lol so I found it ironic.
you are totally right! But I still feel like it shouldnt be allowed. Mental health has no place in the court room. it will only increase stigma
Also That had to be so awful to watch as a rehab nurse. ugh. I used to do inpatient detox and I can't fathom why they would allow that detox to go down the way it did. Oof. Thanks for your perspectives!
I will agree with you on BPD but respectfully disagree on narcissism because of my experience. Also we have forensic Psychology for certain criminals like serial killers.
What is your experience with narcissism and was it clinically diagnosed narcissism or just your “observation.” I ask because just like the word “depressed” people use the word “narcissistic” to mean attention seeking… which I feel as humans who freakin isn’t? lol it’s a spectrum. We’re social animals.
@@qwertyuiopasiii2822
Narcissistic personality disorder is hard to diagnose due to them not seeking help and that's the problem that's why I said narcissism not NPD. But if you live with them in the same house for years and if you're aware of NPD then you can surmise what you are experiencing. Never realize I lived with one until I went to college 🙃
@@qwertyuiopasiii2822
I would like to correct myself on people with NPD not seeking help because on some "rare" occasions some do. I'm not an expert but I would suggest you look up Dr Ramani on youtube. She's an expert on NPD because of her extensive work and experience.
@@eliseestadilla3916 thanks for your response! I do watch Dr.Ramani she is great!
Narcissism is now used in society uses as umbrella term for anyone with difficult personalities. I am a mental health professional with a Master’s degree in clinical mental health counseling. A lot of what people assume are narcissistic traits are in reality rooted in serious anxiety issues and trauma that present themselves as narcissistic when in fact they are coping mechanisms used by the individual in order to feel safe. Actually NPD and even Antisocial Personality Disorder is pretty rare. Even with these disorders I believe an individual can always change behaviors. My theoretical approach to treatment is heavily rooted in Existentialism and Rogers’s Person Centered Theory. To the OP, I suggest read on these theoretical approaches and even CBT and Reality Therapy to have a better understanding of every person’s capacity to create behavior changes.
As someone who has BPD and I am upfront with everyone especially my healthcare providers I find it insulting when I have a problem in my life it is brushed off as me being dramatic instead of given the proper care and time it needs. When I was diagnosed with Major depression and PTSD my symptoms were taken seriously.
ugh I am so sorry you had to experience that!
@@NurseLiz Thank you.
hey liz! I thought the same about the possible HIPAA violation but both parties waived certain parts for the trial when being deposed.
Oh I understand why they were bringing it all up and that the rights were waived, I just hate the impact it has on already misunderstood diseases. It all just makes me mad
Hey nurse Liz!
I’m curious about your opinion regarding Forensic psychology being applied to criminal cases. I feel like it was not necessary to use forensic psychology in civil suit, however; forensic psychology is necessary when it comes to competency in criminal trial. What do you think about forensic psychology when it comes to criminality?
Thanks!
Hi! In my opinion it should be something that is confidential. They can leave their recommendation on what they think in terms of being of sound mind or ability to rehabilitate, but the process, and diagnoses along the way should remain confidential, with just the final decision being made public.
This is a very important message. Thank you nurse Liz ❤
The only thing I disagree with is Amber is the one who put her mental health at issue which is why she had to be evaluated. It still feels icky, but that’s just law sometimes.
Which I get. I just hate it.
🙌🏻
As a former advocate and changemaker coming up from a federal grassroots movement working within a state to make changes in children’s mental health, I was devastated and disgusted about the stigmatized weaponization this case placed on mental health. Don’t even get me started with some of the experts, by stigmatizing mental health how many people will actually get help?
I understand the need for it in a court case, but some of the experts weaponization of mental health was deplorable.
so grossly weaponized. and I completely agree with you about the "experts". literally just made everything worse.
🤮
Sad that these things can be weaponized and even used in court publicly and I don't agree that anyone's personal health info should be public. However, some would argue the reason your "morality of mental health diagnoses" scale is conceptualized the way that it is by the general public, i.e. with an acceptable/ unacceptable side is because some of the diagnoses on the right involve elements of volition (the personality disorders) while the diagnoses on the right do not or less so (I would move bipolar to the left), and the actions or symptoms of those diagnoses on the right are not just disorderly in a vacuum, but are often and necessarily willfully harmful to others, which is why individuals with antisocial personality disorder (a diagnosis that would definitely be on the right) are often bad people and are essentially outlined this way in the DSM5. Swing and a miss for me here.
Then please relay that to AMBER who made her mental health an issue when claiming Johnny gave her PTSD 👍
I'm 5 minutes in and wondering if this channel believes Amber's diagnosis is wrong 🤷🏼♀️🤔
Not sure if that’s what this video is about lol
I'm not trying to determine if her diagnoses are right or wrong, either the personality disorders or the PTSD. That's not the point of this video. The point is that her mental health is being used as a weapon and is adding to the stigma already surrounding highly stigmatized mental health diagnoses and discussing why that is dangerous.
@@NurseLiz So I'm wondering if it's only ok for mental health to be used as a defense? 🤷🏼♀️ To me, it really seems like Amber's team weaponized her self-diagnosis of PTSD against Johnny... he has the right to defend himself - plus she is the one who brought mental illness into play.
Honestly, it is unethical for any mental health practitioner to make a Dx on an individual based on solely observed behavior during a court trial. I would need a variety of measurements to assess anyone before making a “contingent” Dx such as any Cluster B Personality Dx. Even after an thorough assessment I would seek consultation before making a formal Personality Dx.
That is not even how it came across in this case, you are dramatizing and one sided
Johnny ... so glad to hear the verdict!!!! Yes, both sides, but Heard was way worse.
Agreed. She was caught in too many lies to be credible. Which is sad. Because I think she probably did suffer some type of abuse as well. but since she lied so much, all truth was washed away