John Jay Econimics The 8 was the remainder of the Third Avenue El in The Bronx, which ran from 149th to Gun Hill Road, where its terminal was on the lower level. It was marked 8 on maps but the trains never showed 8 on their signs -- the cars were so old they had no provision for numbers. (A similar situation existed in Brooklyn on the Myrtle Avenue El between Broadway and downtown Brooklyn at the Bridge & Jay streets station; that line was dubbed the MJ but the cars never showed that designation.) The L train was not the El. It was the 14th Street-Canarsie line. Parts of it are elevated, but it is not considered an El. In Chicago, 'L' is what the elevated trains in general are called, but in New York (And Boston, too) the elevateds were called Els.
See my post. The R-12s that eventually ran there did have numbers but the TA chose not to recycle the number 8 that was intended for use when the iRT still ran to Astoria.
It was both actually. The IRT had numbers way back in the 1920s that are almost exactly like those we see today. And the BMT had numbers too, such as the L train, which used to be the BMT 16. www.thejoekorner.com/lines/suball-frame.htm EDIT: the numbers on the IRT were not added until 1948.
Maxwell Apton Ha! That would explain why the silver IRT number 3 trains number display can go up to double digits. I once saw one of those trains parked in a train yard and it was displaying the number 13 . Strange-but-true.
Good report. The H or HH was off and on used for Rockaway Shuttles. The MJ was the Myrtle - Jay elevated for just two years and no train carried that sign. Many experimental or short lived routes existed from late 1967 into the 70s. The BMT numbering system 1 through 16 was officially changed to letters higher than H in 1961 but older trains running until 1969 didnt get the new roll signs. The original colors to accompany the routes appeared in late 1967 and lasted until the first version of the current map came out with new colors in late 1978 or 1979. The 1968 master plan of the MTA included a color map showing just single letter routes for all lines existing and proposed. The current system of trunk line colors is pretty good and will likely never change. having endured for 40 years.
The U and Y seem like candidates for the Second Avenue Line if the MTA were to make it a 4 track system as originally intended in the IND Second System, with the T running express and the U and Y running local. The Z would also be rerouted to serve the express with the T. The O, P, X, and V would run along another new main line in Manhattan: the 5th Avenue line. The O and X would run express while the P and V would run local.
@HeyItsVince the Z should be it's own branch and after 129th street or crescent street the Z should Merge with the J possibly making the J/Z interchangeable just like the 2/5
The T, U, V, Y should be the Second Av Trunk line. The T and U local, V and Y express. T terminates via 3 Av in The Bx in Wakefield, The U along Lafayette Av to Throgs Neck, the V as a crosstown 125th St Line, and Y terminates at Rosedale via Queens Blvd. I say merge the J, L, and Z up Tenth Av/Amsterdam Av Have the O be part of the Canarsie Line. The I and X should be the Interborough Subway. The I being local and the X being express. The H as part of the Eighth Av line, but send it down Myrtle Av into the Rockaways like originally planned. The K and P should form a trunk with the G. Send the K up to College Point, and P down Lafayette/Myrtle Avs and terminate at Jamaica Center. I was thinking they could reroute the W via Myrtle Av from Jay St - MetroTech to Jamaica Center. Send the 7 down Flatbush Av and terminate at Kings Plaza. Reroute the E and M via Stuyvesant/Utica Avs, branching off the Broadway lines The W could have a new terminal in the Bronx in Pelham, via Madison Av, crossing into the 138th St Bridge then via Boston Rd
3:26 When the 3 companies merged in 1940, it was known as the New York City Transit System. Then in 1953 the New York City Transit Authority. The MTA wasn't formed until 1968.
The KK was replaced by the K (a shortened version of the KK) in 1973. That K train was discontinued in 1976. Later, in 1985 when double letters were eliminated, the K designation was brought back for a totally different route, the former AA train.
To add more accuracy, the IRT, the oldest of the three, had numbers because of the age of each line, the oldest IRT (and oldest overall) was 1, the newest IRT is 7 (it used to be 8 until the 3rd Avenue elevated subway was demolished in the 1970s). The former IND is now lines A to G, was based off the routings and pairs and their six main lines 8th Avenue, 6th Avenue, Crosstown, Washington Heights, Concourse, and Queens Blvd. They first based pairing a local with an express. At first you had A and B, A - Washington Heights express via 8th Avenue and B-Washington Heights local via 6th Avenue. Then C and D, C - Concourse local via 8th Avenue, D - Concourse express via 6th Avenue. Then E and F, E - Queens Local via 8th Avenue, F - Queens Express via 6th Avenue. G was and still is the Manhattan bypass via Crosstown. There used to be a train called “H” which is now survived by the Rockaway Shuttle but it used to operate from Euclid Avenue and throughout the Rockaways, turning at Rockaway Park then to go to Far Rockaway via the Hammels Wye before returning back to Euclid in a sort of “loop”, so the H literally meant “(H)ammels”. Now that doesn’t include when the V ran because the V wasn’t created until 2001 so it only got a letter thrown to it. Again, that’s all how the IND system was based, before the use of double letters that eventually got eliminated. The BMT used to have numbers, which when taken over the city, were dissolved into the J through Z routes today, the letters given to them roughly represent their destination for the oldest BMT lines like J for (J)amaica, L for Canarsie (L)ocal, M for (M)yrtle Avenue, R for Bay (R)idge, Z for Jamaica (Z)oom. N and Q were more filler letters when the BMT came into Midtown Manhattan, same with when the BMT used to operate the T on West End which eventually was taken out for the IND B, which eventually was taken out when the W debuted in 2001 and ran on the (W)est End line, but got taken out for what’s now the D, now the W loosely represents (W)hitehall Street, it’s southern terminus. Again, this is just from the info I got and pretty much pieced together, feel free to correct any misinformation, but that’s as best and as accurate as I can put it.
Im from Alabama and ive been to NYC twice in my life. I never rode the subway because i was told by cab drivers and other residents not to because they were so dangerous. I wish i had at least once. Just for the experience.
Yes there was a number 8 3rd Avenue Local in the Bronx it was elevated. The latter portion 149th Street & Gun Hill Road. Portions are still up there on the 2 & 5 train...
The following is common knowledge to native New Yorkers, but I'll say it anyways. The numbered lines correspond to the IRT (Interborough Rapid Transit Company). The lettered lines from A to G roughly correspond to the city-run IND (INDependent Subway System). The lettered lines from J to Z roughly correspond to the BMT (Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit Company). The M is a bit weird; it runs on former BMT trackage from Middle Village/Metropolitan Ave to the Chrystie Street Connection, and along IND trackage from the Chrystie Street Connection, on the 6th Ave Local, and along the Queens Blvd Local, to Forest Hills-71st Ave. The Broadway-Seventh Ave, Lexington Ave, and Flushing lines (1/2/3, 4/5/6/, and 7/, respectively) are the core of the IRT system, which runs trains that are 10-car, 510 feet long, except for the 7/ which runs 11-car, 561 foot-long trains. The Nassau St, Canarsie, and Broadway lines (J/Z, L, and N/Q/R/W, respectively) form the core of the BMT network, at least of what remains of it. The BMT runs a mix of some 10-car trains with each car at 60 feet long, and some 8-car trains with each car at 75 feet long. Both combinations result in 600 foot-long trains, so both types fit the platform. I may be wrong on the length of J/Z trains; feel free to correct me. The L train only runs with 8-car trains that are 480 feet long (I think...). The Eighth Ave, Sixth Ave, and Crosstown lines (A/C/E, B/D//F/M, and G, respectively) form the core of the IND network. The two types of trains used on the IND are the same as the BMT, thanks to the IND being built with the same tunnel and rolling stock dimensions as the BMT. The exception is the G, which -- due to lower demand than other IND lines -- only runs 5-car trains at 300 feet long, although the platforms of G train stops can accommodate 600-foot trains. The IRT portion is referred to internally as the A Division. The BMT and IND combined systems are referred to as the B Division. The 1-6 trains have 30 doors per side, and the 7 has 33 doors per side. The 10-car B Division trains have 40 doors per side, while the 8-car trains have 32 doors per side.
The New York City Transit Authority still has the #8 roll sign in each of their slightly older subway cars dating back to the 1980s. It’s just not use after the Third Avenue El was demolished in April 1973. So they can bring it back anytime the agency want to create a new subway line.
I doubt that anything newer than the R-15s (if those even have it) has the number 8 since by the time the next order of IRT cars came kin, the Astoria Line which was the original 8 was exclusively BMT.
The r62/a still has the 8 but green and 9 10 11 12 and 13. 10 and 12 Are green. 11 is purple. 9 and 13 are red The r32/r46/r68/a still has the K AND H in blue The r32 has a T U P I O Y but in white it also still has the brown R The r32/r42 still has the brown m The r46 has the L J M AND Z The r32/42/46/68/a/160 still have the v
I heard the 0 (number) is actually used internally for the 42nd Street Shuttle, similar to how the Rockaway Park Shuttle is referred to as the H nowadays.
Don't get confused with the London subways if you're from America cause they drive on the left side of the road so will the subways in the train will be entering the station from the right instead of the left
Train widths also gives rise to this: number line trains can and do use letter line tunnels, but they will never stop at letter line platforms due to narrower train body leaving behind a gap between the train and the platform too wide to be safe. In reverse letter line trains will not use number line tracks at all since they are too wide to fit and forcing one down that track will result in equipment damage.
Ouch. The BMT began using numbers with the arrival of the D-Type Triplex cars in 1925. The BMT switched to letter with the arrival of the R-27, R-30 & R-30A in 1960; the letters starting where the IND left off. Speaking of the IND, this was the City Built subway opened in Sept 1932. The line used letters for the routes, starting with A. The IRT, current numbered routed, didn't get their numbers until 1948, with the arrival of the SMEE cars, R-12 & R-14. Before 1948, the routes had names. BTW - There was an H train. It was a replacement for the HH train, both running on the Rockaway Peninsula, however, the original HH train was the Court Street Shuttle, going between Hoyt-Schermerhorn station and Court Street station, the current NYC Transit Museum.
Interestingly enough there are some subway maps around from the late 1940s that show the HH as a Fulton St Lcl between Court St and Bway/ENY with the Fulton St Line going to Euclid. Ironically, the HH shuttle was eliminated a year before the iND was extended that far. I have a photo of an R-1 mockup that shows a double digit number in the route sign box. Apparently when the city was no longer interested in putting the BMT out of business, it was hoping the BMT would take over operation of the new subway lines and it was expected that the BMT’s numbering scheme would be extended to those lines. When the BMT refused to operate the lines unless it was allowed to raise the fare, the city took over the lines as a subway system “independent” of either of the privates, hence the name “Independent Subway System” or IND and developed the lettering system which eventually was applied to former BMT lines.
0:12 how TF is the nyc subway easy to navigate? Is it a joke that I didn't understand? Except tokyo, most subway systems are much easier to navigate than the nyc subway (with an understandable map, one color = one line, no trains that skip stations, no service that completely changes depending on the time of day and the day of the week, where you don't have to choose to right entrance to the station, etc ...)
I certainly don’t think the NYC subway is easy to navigate 😂 with different trains going to different places on weekends, some express, some local it actually seems like one of the worlds most complicated to me 😂
Contrary to what the reported stated, the MTA did NOT merge the three companies to one in 1940. The city did. The MTA wasnt created until 1968! There use to be an 8 and a 9 under the IRT: the 8 was the old Third Ave elevated in The Bronx. The 9 ran skip stop with the 1 from 1988 to early 2000's The H is the internal route for the Rockaway Park S shuttle in Queens The IRT (numbers 1-7 and 42nd St Shuttle) is known as the "A" division while the BMT (letters J-Z, Franklin Ave Shuttle) and the IND (letters A-h and Rock Park shuttle) are known as the "B" division collectively. the V ran as IND from 2001-2010 the W currently runs as BMT Phase 3 of the Second Ave Subway (when service from 125th St to Houston ST begins) will introduce the T line
Looks like I have to put my Subway guide expertise into this. The K train was represented three different ways. First as the IND Subway traveling from 168th Street, Washington Heights to World Trade Center in the financial district. And then it ran along the Nassau Street line from Broadway Junction to 57th Street and 6th Avenue. Finally it was for a very short time the Rockaway shuttle which is now the S train and Rockaway Park. Now as for the the h train. The H train used to run from Rockaway Park to Euclid Avenue long before the S arrived. The X train is a work train it does exist its just not a commuter train, it's a work train.
The K and KK designations were used first on the Bway Bkln/6 Av lcl and used later on the Wash Hts Lcl to replace the AA as part of the program to eliminate double letters. It was NEVER uses for the Rockaway shuttle which fro most of its history used HH or H. Actually when Chrystie first opened in 1967, there was a train which ran from Brighton Bch to 57/7 through Stillwell and via the Sea Beach exp tks between 86 St and 8 Ave and the regular Sea Beach route to 57 St which was called the NX. Due to the lack of a truly smooth track arrangement, it was eliminated within a few month of operation.
.......how about Queensborough Plaza is the only station in the entire system where a "lettered" train stops on the same platform as a "numbered" train. They are the N, Q and 7 trains. Basically, u can transfer from the N or Q to the 7 without going up or down any stairs. You just cross the platform to transfer between trains.
The Astoria line originally opened with the IRT company as a spur off of the Corona line (corona line is now Flushing line even though only one stop is in Flushing). Eventually is was adopted by the BMT. The stations were then converted to adopt the wider bodied cars and the longer trains.
The new Ttrain (SAS) or Q train should connect to the Bronx after 125street. Via new tunnel provisions and link up with B D on the grand concourse. The M going to middle village Queens to Manhattan and then Queens again is silly. M train should go to Brooklyn
I’m gonna clear something up that was said in the video The P was gonna be an extension of the Culver Line, like the 4 and 5 are essentially the 6 train but they go to Brooklyn
@@QuarioQuario54321 I've seen a 7 train with an "11" roll sign and have a picture of it. The color is magenta meaning that it would be a part of the Flushing line or maybe just a placeholder.
The IND was never a separate company, it was built by the city and owned by the city from its beginning. The IRT, being the oldest built on a standard that made sense, the BMT which came later used larger and longer carriages and the IND followed their design.
The NYC subway sucks. The P train smelled like pee, I got stung by a bee on the B train, someone poked me in the eye in the I train, someone spilled their tea on me on the T train, and the C train fell off a bridge and into the sea!
This is nuts. You guys are natives, yet you haven't used the subway, to know the difference between the A division and B division? Let me inform you of a few things. U,X,Y,AND T were slated to be the Second Ave subway main trunk lines through midtown. Since the line wasn't built as conceived, nor will it have express service whenever it's finished, the only line considered to operate there is the Q Broadway Express, and the T Second Ave local. An connection to the Queens Blvd subway is in the works,but it is not known if a line will use it until capacity issues along the QB is addressed. The subway will expand,slowly. Several new routes and extensions are being planned as of this moment.
Some wrong info in this Fox5 skit. BMT was lettered not numbered. There was an 8 train that ran to Gun Hill Road, and there was an H train that ran for a short period of time servicing the A Train's Rockaway shuttle branch. When the transit woman mentioned the F Culver Line extension that "never" happened, I believe this was a reference to the Culver / 9 Street shuttle that ran from Ditmas Ave to 9th Street and was shut down in the early 1970's. The Culver shuttle designated as (S) or (SS) and was in fact an extension of the F. I don't know why the transit woman stated that never happened.
Okay, so as was already mentioned here in the Comments section, the IRT was the numbered system, not the BMT. Actually, the IND is all letters from A - G, and the BMT is all letters J and higher. Also, she said she would answer the question as to why there is no 8 train, but never did. The simple answer is that the 8 train would sound too similar to A train, this causing confusion.
Because Staten Island currently has the Staten Island Railway, which is accessible via the Staten Island Ferry from Manhattan. Originally there were plans to build a tunnel to extend the Subway to Staten Island in the 1920’s but it never happened due to the Great Depression and the construction of the Verrazano Narrows Bridge in the early 1960’s. However New York City is considering future plans to build a Subway tunnel to Staten Island once the Second Avenue Subway is completed through Manhattan, The Bronx, and Brooklyn.
The IRT is the one with the numbers (Interboro Rapid Transit)... You never see an IRT train in the same platform as the others. Ex. Queensboro Plaza has the 7 on a seperate level than whatever also stops there. Its been R, N, W et.al. The double letters were express on the same line or the other way around RR/R...GG/G... There was a 9 train (on the 1 line) and an H (A line to Rockaways)
Several years ago, O'Doul's had a subway ad with a fictional subway map. It was barely noticeable but if you looked closely, there was a yellow line called the "P" train. Think about it.
I’m glad it’s been unified if it hadn’t been unified, subway riders would have to exit and pay another fare to transfer to another train which I find very stupid, a nuisance and too time consuming and not to mention it would have been expensive too.
I like how the MTA like's to make up excuse's for not using certain letter's. U and Y sound like word's but it's a big difference with saying the actual word's and seeing it on a sign board via on a subway car.
They aren't making excuses. They actually are telling the truth. Like trubiscut said it was spoken on speakers which can get confusing. Other nations and cities also don't use certain letters for the similar reasons on public transport
i remember there was the bb cc aa LL trains in the 70s and when she say about the tunnels thats fact cause like the F train it was wide and the number 2 train it was wide but small..
BB was replaced by the B in 1967 with Chrystie. Due to the lack of planning on the part of the TA, proper signs were not ordered in time and many B trains continued to display the old BB signs.
There was also a (9) train that existed with the 1, 2, and 3 routes until 2005.
The 9 train was discontinued because it was very unpopular. In my opinion they should do away with the Z train also.
The original #9 train was the Dyre Avenue Shuttle line in the Bronx!
The (8) Train did exist back when the Third Ave Line was still around.
Isaiah muniz In the Bronx or Brooklyn because the L train was there too.
John Jay Econimics The 8 was the remainder of the Third Avenue El in The Bronx, which ran from 149th to Gun Hill Road, where its terminal was on the lower level. It was marked 8 on maps but the trains never showed 8 on their signs -- the cars were so old they had no provision for numbers. (A similar situation existed in Brooklyn on the Myrtle Avenue El between Broadway and downtown Brooklyn at the Bridge & Jay streets station; that line was dubbed the MJ but the cars never showed that designation.) The L train was not the El. It was the 14th Street-Canarsie line. Parts of it are elevated, but it is not considered an El. In Chicago, 'L' is what the elevated trains in general are called, but in New York (And Boston, too) the elevateds were called Els.
(H) & (K) use to be canon.
See my post. The R-12s that eventually ran there did have numbers but the TA chose not to recycle the number 8 that was intended for use when the iRT still ran to Astoria.
I rode the 8 before it went extinct.
It was actually the IRT (not the BMT) that used numbers to name their train lines
It was both actually. The IRT had numbers way back in the 1920s that are almost exactly like those we see today. And the BMT had numbers too, such as the L train, which used to be the BMT 16.
www.thejoekorner.com/lines/suball-frame.htm
EDIT: the numbers on the IRT were not added until 1948.
Maxwell Apton
Ha! That would explain why the silver IRT number 3 trains number display can go up to double digits. I once saw one of those trains parked in a train yard and it was displaying the number 13 . Strange-but-true.
They were internally used but not publicly
And there was a number 8 Train that ran in the Bronx . The 8 ran on the remaining 3rd ave El
BMT used numbers as well.
Good report. The H or HH was off and on used for Rockaway Shuttles. The MJ was the Myrtle - Jay elevated for just two years and no train carried that sign. Many experimental or short lived routes existed from late 1967 into the 70s. The BMT numbering system 1 through 16 was officially changed to letters higher than H in 1961 but older trains running until 1969 didnt get the new roll signs. The original colors to accompany the routes appeared in late 1967 and lasted until the first version of the current map came out with new colors in late 1978 or 1979. The 1968 master plan of the MTA included a color map showing just single letter routes for all lines existing and proposed. The current system of trunk line colors is pretty good and will likely never change. having endured for 40 years.
Hello thanks for the information
the H is still used internally as the Rockaway Park Shuttle
IXofXIII no
@@harrythehamster72 I'm a former subway conductor. Yeah.
@@harrythehamster72 uhh yeah it is even the rollsigns carry the h sign
8 train was the third ave el in the Bronx
Facts
It was cyan blue
@@BMTEnjoyer160 omg yes it was.
Presents a story about the details of the subway system...
Thinks the F train stops at Times Square...
Maybe they don't have brains.
justageneraluser lol.
But it does... Don't it? If you count Bryant Park, Herald Square, etc.
@@JoshuaTheTransitProdigy the f doesn't stop in times square.bryant part isn't in times square it 2 blocks down so that's where the f is
Joshua Coley Has times sqaure is the west side 42 is Times Square as234th street herald square I spent station
Fun fact: The (H) train does exist, it's just only referred to as the (H) train internally. Said train being the Rockaway (S)huttle.
The F train doesn't even stop at Times Square LOL
34 st; Bryant Park and Rockefeller Center.
More misinformation from a Fox News Affiliate.
Exactly wtf I said
2018 & we still confuse Herald with Time!
What the F?
The U and Y seem like candidates for the Second Avenue Line if the MTA were to make it a 4 track system as originally intended in the IND Second System, with the T running express and the U and Y running local. The Z would also be rerouted to serve the express with the T.
The O, P, X, and V would run along another new main line in Manhattan: the 5th Avenue line. The O and X would run express while the P and V would run local.
@HeyItsVince the Z should be it's own branch and after 129th street or crescent street the Z should Merge with the J possibly making the J/Z interchangeable just like the 2/5
The T, U, V, Y should be the Second Av Trunk line. The T and U local, V and Y express. T terminates via 3 Av in The Bx in Wakefield, The U along Lafayette Av to Throgs Neck, the V as a crosstown 125th St Line, and Y terminates at Rosedale via Queens Blvd.
I say merge the J, L, and Z up Tenth Av/Amsterdam Av
Have the O be part of the Canarsie Line.
The I and X should be the Interborough Subway. The I being local and the X being express.
The H as part of the Eighth Av line, but send it down Myrtle Av into the Rockaways like originally planned.
The K and P should form a trunk with the G. Send the K up to College Point, and P down Lafayette/Myrtle Avs and terminate at Jamaica Center.
I was thinking they could reroute the W via Myrtle Av from Jay St - MetroTech to Jamaica Center.
Send the 7 down Flatbush Av and terminate at Kings Plaza.
Reroute the E and M via Stuyvesant/Utica Avs, branching off the Broadway lines
The W could have a new terminal in the Bronx in Pelham, via Madison Av, crossing into the 138th St Bridge then via Boston Rd
Every train is a pee train.
Yes, exactly! One train I don't like riding, though, is the "B" train. No matter what, I always wind up getting stung.
[Booing]
Very accurate
Avenue pee in Brooklyn,pee train lol.
Lol
3:26 When the 3 companies merged in 1940, it was known as the New York City Transit System. Then in 1953 the New York City Transit Authority. The MTA wasn't formed until 1968.
The H train was actually a Far Rockaway shuttle
I’ve been on the p train because some bum peed on it and then it became the P train.
MikeJ 2016 lmao
LoL Mike 2016
MikeJ 2016 i shouldnt like this cuz it’s stupid but I do 😂😂😂
Very funny!!
Well I have a new idea for the O and P Trains lol
The KK was replaced by the K (a shortened version of the KK) in 1973. That K train was discontinued in 1976. Later, in 1985 when double letters were eliminated, the K designation was brought back for a totally different route, the former AA train.
I remember the K train!!!! They used to use those really old, black cars for it. I've missed it so much since I was little!!
'Y' was considered for a Bronx-Second Avenue Subway service in the 1970s.
Actually it never existed y train on 2 Ave
To add more accuracy, the IRT, the oldest of the three, had numbers because of the age of each line, the oldest IRT (and oldest overall) was 1, the newest IRT is 7 (it used to be 8 until the 3rd Avenue elevated subway was demolished in the 1970s). The former IND is now lines A to G, was based off the routings and pairs and their six main lines 8th Avenue, 6th Avenue, Crosstown, Washington Heights, Concourse, and Queens Blvd. They first based pairing a local with an express. At first you had A and B, A - Washington Heights express via 8th Avenue and B-Washington Heights local via 6th Avenue. Then C and D, C - Concourse local via 8th Avenue, D - Concourse express via 6th Avenue. Then E and F, E - Queens Local via 8th Avenue, F - Queens Express via 6th Avenue. G was and still is the Manhattan bypass via Crosstown. There used to be a train called “H” which is now survived by the Rockaway Shuttle but it used to operate from Euclid Avenue and throughout the Rockaways, turning at Rockaway Park then to go to Far Rockaway via the Hammels Wye before returning back to Euclid in a sort of “loop”, so the H literally meant “(H)ammels”. Now that doesn’t include when the V ran because the V wasn’t created until 2001 so it only got a letter thrown to it. Again, that’s all how the IND system was based, before the use of double letters that eventually got eliminated. The BMT used to have numbers, which when taken over the city, were dissolved into the J through Z routes today, the letters given to them roughly represent their destination for the oldest BMT lines like J for (J)amaica, L for Canarsie (L)ocal, M for (M)yrtle Avenue, R for Bay (R)idge, Z for Jamaica (Z)oom. N and Q were more filler letters when the BMT came into Midtown Manhattan, same with when the BMT used to operate the T on West End which eventually was taken out for the IND B, which eventually was taken out when the W debuted in 2001 and ran on the (W)est End line, but got taken out for what’s now the D, now the W loosely represents (W)hitehall Street, it’s southern terminus. Again, this is just from the info I got and pretty much pieced together, feel free to correct any misinformation, but that’s as best and as accurate as I can put it.
and the B for (B)righton Beach
Im from Alabama and ive been to NYC twice in my life. I never rode the subway because i was told by cab drivers and other residents not to because they were so dangerous. I wish i had at least once. Just for the experience.
Of coarse the cab driver told you that because he wants his cab fare
Yes there was a number 8 3rd Avenue Local in the Bronx it was elevated. The latter portion 149th Street & Gun Hill Road. Portions are still up there on the 2 & 5 train...
The following is common knowledge to native New Yorkers, but I'll say it anyways.
The numbered lines correspond to the IRT (Interborough Rapid Transit Company). The lettered lines from A to G roughly correspond to the city-run IND (INDependent Subway System). The lettered lines from J to Z roughly correspond to the BMT (Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit Company). The M is a bit weird; it runs on former BMT trackage from Middle Village/Metropolitan Ave to the Chrystie Street Connection, and along IND trackage from the Chrystie Street Connection, on the 6th Ave Local, and along the Queens Blvd Local, to Forest Hills-71st Ave.
The Broadway-Seventh Ave, Lexington Ave, and Flushing lines (1/2/3, 4/5/6/, and 7/, respectively) are the core of the IRT system, which runs trains that are 10-car, 510 feet long, except for the 7/ which runs 11-car, 561 foot-long trains. The Nassau St, Canarsie, and Broadway lines (J/Z, L, and N/Q/R/W, respectively) form the core of the BMT network, at least of what remains of it. The BMT runs a mix of some 10-car trains with each car at 60 feet long, and some 8-car trains with each car at 75 feet long. Both combinations result in 600 foot-long trains, so both types fit the platform. I may be wrong on the length of J/Z trains; feel free to correct me. The L train only runs with 8-car trains that are 480 feet long (I think...). The Eighth Ave, Sixth Ave, and Crosstown lines (A/C/E, B/D//F/M, and G, respectively) form the core of the IND network. The two types of trains used on the IND are the same as the BMT, thanks to the IND being built with the same tunnel and rolling stock dimensions as the BMT. The exception is the G, which -- due to lower demand than other IND lines -- only runs 5-car trains at 300 feet long, although the platforms of G train stops can accommodate 600-foot trains.
The IRT portion is referred to internally as the A Division. The BMT and IND combined systems are referred to as the B Division. The 1-6 trains have 30 doors per side, and the 7 has 33 doors per side. The 10-car B Division trains have 40 doors per side, while the 8-car trains have 32 doors per side.
HostilePancakes, The One and Only most natives know no I don’t think a lot of us do lol I don’t. So thanks !
Yeah, the J, M, and Z are the same size as the L, 8 cars of 60 feet each, 480 foot long trains
The D also goes on BMT tracks in Brooklyn with the west end line
Another reason why the 'P' train was never used because it sounds like pee
Some of these people are not native new Yorkers how do you not know there is no P train
I thought the same.
miss jackson exactly
rt
Not all take the subway (Taxi, bus, bike, even boat).
Please bring back the V train!!
3:33 there is no F train to Times Square...
I think she meant a F train to a 7 train to go to time square
i kind of find it hard to believe that a New Yorker had no idea there was no I O U P Y train.... i figured that out my first few months living here.
2:05 Ummm they still have an A train... if that's what he said...
Trainsallday he said 8.
he said "8 train" buddy
Can't wait for the (T) train to come back in service. It's been Decades!
The T is for the second avenue if it ever get completed to lower Manhattan
The New York City Transit Authority still has the #8 roll sign in each of their slightly older subway cars dating back to the 1980s. It’s just not use after the Third Avenue El was demolished in April 1973. So they can bring it back anytime the agency want to create a new subway line.
I doubt that anything newer than the R-15s (if those even have it) has the number 8 since by the time the next order of IRT cars came kin, the Astoria Line which was the original 8 was exclusively BMT.
The r62/a still has the 8 but green and 9 10 11 12 and 13. 10 and 12 Are green. 11 is purple. 9 and 13 are red
The r32/r46/r68/a still has the K AND H in blue
The r32 has a T U P I O Y but in white it also still has the brown R
The r32/r42 still has the brown m
The r46 has the L J M AND Z
The r32/42/46/68/a/160 still have the v
They should bring back the V train
I heard the 0 (number) is actually used internally for the 42nd Street Shuttle, similar to how the Rockaway Park Shuttle is referred to as the H nowadays.
I found that if you can navigate the NYC subway system, going to other cities (like London) makes it easy to navigate their system! IMO
Don't get confused with the London subways if you're from America cause they drive on the left side of the road so will the subways in the train will be entering the station from the right instead of the left
Their was an H train it was in the rockaways after Sandy hit
It ran from Euclid Ave to Rockaway when I was a kid although it was the HH back then. I thought it was cool that they brought it back after Sandy.
Put the U train on the track across from the F train
Lol
There was a 8 train but it ended in 1975
I actually found all this very interesting.
there was a H train. in far rock!
Yup (H) & (K) use to be a thing.
@@Power-1Thouzand used*
Yeah I remember that why didnt the lady talk about it?
its actually Rock Park and its still used internally for the Shuttle
Wait a dam min, since when did F train stop at times square????
Train widths also gives rise to this: number line trains can and do use letter line tunnels, but they will never stop at letter line platforms due to narrower train body leaving behind a gap between the train and the platform too wide to be safe. In reverse letter line trains will not use number line tracks at all since they are too wide to fit and forcing one down that track will result in equipment damage.
Ouch. The BMT began using numbers with the arrival of the D-Type Triplex cars in 1925. The BMT switched to letter with the arrival of the R-27, R-30 & R-30A in 1960; the letters starting where the IND left off. Speaking of the IND, this was the City Built subway opened in Sept 1932. The line used letters for the routes, starting with A. The IRT, current numbered routed, didn't get their numbers until 1948, with the arrival of the SMEE cars, R-12 & R-14. Before 1948, the routes had names. BTW - There was an H train. It was a replacement for the HH train, both running on the Rockaway Peninsula, however, the original HH train was the Court Street Shuttle, going between Hoyt-Schermerhorn station and Court Street station, the current NYC Transit Museum.
Interestingly enough there are some subway maps around from the late 1940s that show the HH as a Fulton St Lcl between Court St and Bway/ENY with the Fulton St Line going to Euclid. Ironically, the HH shuttle was eliminated a year before the iND was extended that far. I have a photo of an R-1 mockup that shows a double digit number in the route sign box. Apparently when the city was no longer interested in putting the BMT out of business, it was hoping the BMT would take over operation of the new subway lines and it was expected that the BMT’s numbering scheme would be extended to those lines. When the BMT refused to operate the lines unless it was allowed to raise the fare, the city took over the lines as a subway system “independent” of either of the privates, hence the name “Independent Subway System” or IND and developed the lettering system which eventually was applied to former BMT lines.
There are H trains, Still Today. It’s the Rockaway Pk Shuttle.
HOW ABOUT THE T TRAIN?
The T train is for the new Second Avenue Subway
The T train will go to the Second Avenue Subway after Phase 3 is completed
0:12 how TF is the nyc subway easy to navigate? Is it a joke that I didn't understand? Except tokyo, most subway systems are much easier to navigate than the nyc subway (with an understandable map, one color = one line, no trains that skip stations, no service that completely changes depending on the time of day and the day of the week, where you don't have to choose to right entrance to the station, etc ...)
The H train existed as a shuttle from elucid avenue to the rockaways
I certainly don’t think the NYC subway is easy to navigate 😂 with different trains going to different places on weekends, some express, some local it actually seems like one of the worlds most complicated to me 😂
The H train is just the historical way to say the Rockaway Park Shuttle
Contrary to what the reported stated, the MTA did NOT merge the three companies to one in 1940. The city did. The MTA wasnt created until 1968!
There use to be an 8 and a 9 under the IRT: the 8 was the old Third Ave elevated in The Bronx. The 9 ran skip stop with the 1 from 1988 to early 2000's
The H is the internal route for the Rockaway Park S shuttle in Queens
The IRT (numbers 1-7 and 42nd St Shuttle) is known as the "A" division while the BMT (letters J-Z, Franklin Ave Shuttle) and the IND (letters A-h and Rock Park shuttle) are known as the "B" division collectively.
the V ran as IND from 2001-2010
the W currently runs as BMT
Phase 3 of the Second Ave Subway (when service from 125th St to Houston ST begins) will introduce the T line
Looks like I have to put my Subway guide expertise into this. The K train was represented three different ways. First as the IND Subway traveling from 168th Street, Washington Heights to World Trade Center in the financial district. And then it ran along the Nassau Street line from Broadway Junction to 57th Street and 6th Avenue. Finally it was for a very short time the Rockaway shuttle which is now the S train and Rockaway Park. Now as for the the h train. The H train used to run from Rockaway Park to Euclid Avenue long before the S arrived. The X train is a work train it does exist its just not a commuter train, it's a work train.
The K and KK designations were used first on the Bway Bkln/6 Av lcl and used later on the Wash Hts Lcl to replace the AA as part of the program to eliminate double letters. It was NEVER uses for the Rockaway shuttle which fro most of its history used HH or H. Actually when Chrystie first opened in 1967, there was a train which ran from Brighton Bch to 57/7 through Stillwell and via the Sea Beach exp tks between 86 St and 8 Ave and the regular Sea Beach route to 57 St which was called the NX. Due to the lack of a truly smooth track arrangement, it was eliminated within a few month of operation.
There has never been a T train, why was that never used?
It was used in the past
The T train is reserved for the new Second Avenue Subway when Phase 3 is completed through Manhattan
Notice hows theres a H train as a far rockaway shuttle xd
The H is just a designation, not the actual shuttle.
the P can come T is coming the X is Not In Service O is like a 0 and a circle
We probably need a extension for the Culver Line With the F
.......how about Queensborough Plaza is the only station in the entire system where a "lettered" train stops on the same platform as a "numbered" train. They are the N, Q and 7 trains. Basically, u can transfer from the N or Q to the 7 without going up or down any stairs. You just cross the platform to transfer between trains.
The Astoria line originally opened with the IRT company as a spur off of the Corona line (corona line is now Flushing line even though only one stop is in Flushing). Eventually is was adopted by the BMT. The stations were then converted to adopt the wider bodied cars and the longer trains.
Also there was a K train too
The K train used to be the AA train until 1985 and the K train was discontinued in 1988
But the A train seems like i’m tryna go to a train not specifically
LOL I get it, a train
A and E are the only trains that are the vowels.
Also if their was an o train, it just would look like a circle in a circle ⭕️. And true, O & 0 are similar/same shape (depending on font.)
I’m over here wondering why there isn’t any I C U P trains
But there is C.
Yes I know what the joke is, it's old.
Imagine the connection signs and announcements. "Transfer is available to the I, C, U, P trains."
@@kiyoshikimura977 LOL
I see you pee
Vermiculo there’s a c, fool
what about the NX train
The new Ttrain (SAS) or Q train should connect to the Bronx after 125street. Via new tunnel provisions and link up with B D on the grand concourse. The M going to middle village Queens to Manhattan and then Queens again is silly. M train should go to Brooklyn
The trains they need bring in service and back in service is the: (8) (9) (P) (X) (U) (V) and (T) Trains
Also their are the PUXY billets, they are just for internal use.
I’m gonna clear something up that was said in the video
The P was gonna be an extension of the Culver Line, like the 4 and 5 are essentially the 6 train but they go to Brooklyn
There used to be a H train
Note: This Is All Pretend. Pretend Diamond Train Route. It’s Route: Overground Stops: Coney Island Stilwell Avenue, Underground Stops: 59th Street, 36th Street, Atlantic Avenue Barclays Center, Dekalb Avenue, Jay Street Metrotech, Court Street, Whitehall Street, Rector Street, Cortlandt Street, City Hall, Canal Street, 14th Street Union Square, 34th Street Herald Square, Times Square 42nd Street, 57th Street 7th Avenue, 5th Avenue, Lexington Avenue 59th Street, Overground Stops: Queensboro Plaza, 39th Avenue, 36th Avenue, Broadway, 30th Avenue, Astoria Blvd, Astoria Ditmars Blvd. Models: R160, R68A, Time It Runs: 6am To 10pm. Pretend Diamond Train Route. It’s Route: Overground Stops: Coney Island Stilwell Ave, Ocean Parkway, Brighton Beach, Sheepshead Bay, Kings Highway, Newkirk Plaza, Church Av, Prospect Park, Underground Stops: 7th Avenue, Atlantic Avenue Barclays Center, Dekalb Avenue, Canal Street, 14th Street Union Square, 34th Street Herald Square, Times Square 42nd Street, 57th Street 7th Avenue, Lexington Avenue 63rd Street, 72nd Street, 86th Street, 96th Street. Models: R160, Time It Runs: 6am To 10pm
can we get an R179....
The number trains are also longer
The 42 street shuttle is the 0 train aka the toddler prince of irt.
But the trains STILL gonna be late though.
There is a 9 train but the rest got cancelled
That no longer runs. 8 and 10-13 are just there for potential future use.
@@QuarioQuario54321 I've seen a 7 train with an "11" roll sign and have a picture of it. The color is magenta meaning that it would be a part of the Flushing line or maybe just a placeholder.
Now Explain Queensboro Plaza😏🤔🤔
There was an 8 train the Third Ave Elevated that was dismantled in the Bronx
I love maps and the NYC subway map is my favorite.
The IND was never a separate company, it was built by the city and owned by the city from its beginning. The IRT, being the oldest built on a standard that made sense, the BMT which came later used larger and longer carriages and the IND followed their design.
The NYC subway sucks. The P train smelled like pee, I got stung by a bee on the B train, someone poked me in the eye in the I train, someone spilled their tea on me on the T train, and the C train fell off a bridge and into the sea!
Bad pun
OH! she was talking about trains, I was distracted.
What about the t and v
The reasons explained by the rep made excellent sense. No hard to understand at all once its explained like she did.
Oh no girl the f train is officially the Eff’n train. Actually that’s all the trains at some point lol
No, it's the Fight train.
The H train went to Far Rock
u learn learn something new every day
This is nuts.
You guys are natives, yet you haven't used the subway, to know the difference between the A division and B division?
Let me inform you of a few things.
U,X,Y,AND T were slated to be the Second Ave subway main trunk lines through midtown.
Since the line wasn't built as conceived, nor will it have express service whenever it's finished, the only line considered to operate there is the Q Broadway Express, and the T Second Ave local.
An connection to the Queens Blvd subway is in the works,but it is not known if a line will use it until capacity issues along the QB is addressed.
The subway will expand,slowly.
Several new routes and extensions are being planned as of this moment.
Wait do regular people actually not realize the letters are longer than the numbers?
Some wrong info in this Fox5 skit. BMT was lettered not numbered. There was an 8 train that ran to Gun Hill Road, and there was an H train that ran for a short period of time servicing the A Train's Rockaway shuttle branch. When the transit woman mentioned the F Culver Line extension that "never" happened, I believe this was a reference to the Culver / 9 Street shuttle that ran from Ditmas Ave to 9th Street and was shut down in the early 1970's. The Culver shuttle designated as (S) or (SS) and was in fact an extension of the F. I don't know why the transit woman stated that never happened.
The bmt FIRST USED NUMBERS THEN LETTERS WHEN THEY ORDERED THE R27
Okay, so as was already mentioned here in the Comments section, the IRT was the numbered system, not the BMT. Actually, the IND is all letters from A - G, and the BMT is all letters J and higher. Also, she said she would answer the question as to why there is no 8 train, but never did. The simple answer is that the 8 train would sound too similar to A train, this causing confusion.
Then why is there a green 8 rollsign on the r62's
The BMT used numbers before unification
Question I always wanted to know why is there no subway to Staten Island
Izzybx Cashtro there is, it’s called the Staten Island Railway
It’s on the East Side of Staten Island
mo zack thank you for know what I was asking 🗣
Because Staten Island currently has the Staten Island Railway, which is accessible via the Staten Island Ferry from Manhattan. Originally there were plans to build a tunnel to extend the Subway to Staten Island in the 1920’s but it never happened due to the Great Depression and the construction of the Verrazano Narrows Bridge in the early 1960’s. However New York City is considering future plans to build a Subway tunnel to Staten Island once the Second Avenue Subway is completed through Manhattan, The Bronx, and Brooklyn.
R142A and R142 were made in Japan The Kawasaki company
U train announcements Howard Beach to Bedford Park Boulevard
The H train use to run from The A train
The IRT is the one with the numbers (Interboro Rapid Transit)... You never see an IRT train in the same platform as the others. Ex. Queensboro Plaza has the 7 on a seperate level than whatever also stops there. Its been R, N, W et.al. The double letters were express on the same line or the other way around RR/R...GG/G... There was a 9 train (on the 1 line) and an H (A line to Rockaways)
BMT had numbers as well until the 60s.
The number trains are IRT
The letter trains are BMT and IND
Several years ago, O'Doul's had a subway ad with a fictional subway map. It was barely noticeable but if you looked closely, there was a yellow line called the "P" train. Think about it.
IOUPY
I owe you pee why
I’m glad it’s been unified if it hadn’t been unified, subway riders would have to exit and pay another fare to transfer to another train which I find very stupid, a nuisance and too time consuming and not to mention it would have been expensive too.
Why no H, K and X? So many letters missed. Why no 9 and 10 train?
I like how the MTA like's to make up excuse's for not using certain letter's. U and Y sound like word's but it's a big difference with saying the actual word's and seeing it on a sign board via on a subway car.
Except when communicating by radio everything is spoken and not written...
They aren't making excuses. They actually are telling the truth. Like trubiscut said it was spoken on speakers which can get confusing. Other nations and cities also don't use certain letters for the similar reasons on public transport
I hope the "I" and "O" trains can be IND Lines.
i remember there was the bb cc aa LL trains in the 70s and when she say about the tunnels thats fact cause like the F train it was wide and the number 2 train it was wide but small..
BB was replaced by the B in 1967 with Chrystie. Due to the lack of planning on the part of the TA, proper signs were not ordered in time and many B trains continued to display the old BB signs.
There used to be an H Train.
The BMT (originally BRT) used double letters, for example QB and RR. BMT did not use numbers for trains. Only the IRT did.
Under private operation and pre Chrystie the BMT DID use numbers and the IRT only started using them with the first postwar cars.
The BMT used numbers. The double letters were only after the takeover.
Yes it DID, back then...
There was actually use to be a T train, for like 2 years
H was used as a shuttle in the Rockaways after the Hurricane Sandy destroyed everything in 2012.
Bring back the 9 train
And do what with it? It ran on the same line as the 1 train.