The fate of all the Whitechapel victims is sad and tragic. The sites where they last breathed have been devastated by change just as the exact locations of their burials are largely lost. But thanks to Mr. Jones and his continuing study of their stories, these women of Whitechapel (who are known to us only because of their fate) will be remembered and appreciated. May their remembrance bring also an appreciation for the thousands of others who lived such difficult lives, short or long, in that dark time and place. Well done sir, as always.
Its ironic that Mary was shown more respect and attention in death than ever in her life. Kudos on again presenting new material in an engaging manner.
@@davidmoore2308 it's ironic that people talk about remembering the victims when in fact the ONLY reason they are remembered 120+ years later is because they were victims. None of us would have heard of Mary Kelly, Polly Nichols, etc if they had died natural deaths
So sad 😔 The only silver lining is that so many people for so long have remembered and mourned her; if she'd simply died from drink, as so many women like her, she'd have been long forgotten. These poor women led such tragic lives ❤
I have seen that post mortem photo and appreciate your not showing it here. There is no point beyond sensationalism in exhuming any of the victims. Let them lay in peace.
I went to a car boot sale a couple of years ago and one stall was selling a framed and glazed locket of Mary Kelly's hair. He only wanted a fiver. The frame itself was old,possibly from late 19th or early 20th century. I didn't buy it because I assumed it was almost certainly fake and also I thought it might bring bad luck. I still wonder about it.
What an odd thing to sell. Some drunk kid probably bought it for a laugh. Pretty obscene really, trying to sell something so obviously fake and also disrespectful.
There are true crime and serial killer memorabilia websites that sell serial killer letters and art that are authentic but they also sell lockets of Charles mansons hair, rubble from Fred and Rose Wests House and pieces of fabric off ted bundys prison clothing I find it hard to believe those items are authentic and that locket of hair definitely wasn't hers
@@Oakleaf700 Really? Nice people, with morals, would donate it to a museum. Unfortunately, not everyone is nice or has morals and they are the ones that just want the money. Just because someone was trying to sell it, doesn’t mean it was fake and you can’t make that assumption with no evidence. Bad people are out there, hence the reason for the video. R.I.P Mary Kelly
99.999999% chance fake, something that the likes of Walter Sickert and his friends would concoct. If it was genuine, it would be worth its weight in plutonium and an attempt could be made to extract Mary Kelly's DNA.
Thank you for the latest upload. As always very thoughtful and compassionate in how it is presented . I now know not to think of anything else other than a respectful retelling the stories of the ' Ripper ' victims . In many ways you keep their memories alive and that these were real people who's identity has become morphed with Jack the Ripper . I hope you can continue with the hard work of research as I always look forward to your next upload.
You can tell by the richness of the newspaper descriptions that they were far more detailed in their writing than most of today’s journalists are. Today’s journalists are more plain in their writing because they have the advantage of working with photographers. A picture is worth a thousand words. But without the photo, you need the words. And other reasons, the rules of grammar have drastically changed for one. Today’s journalists tell the subject of the sentence first and then the predicate. The Victorian newspapermen put the predicate first and gradually worked their way back to the subject. Illustrated visually, today’s journalists are like filmmakers who start a scene with a broad shot and gradually work to the close-up. The Victorian newspapermen focus on the close-up detail first and pan their way back out to see the big picture by the end.
None but the lonely hearts can know my sadness, love lives forever...as written on the tombstone of Mary Jane Kelly...RIP Mary Jane,May you never be forgotten.
I often wonder why the police had to break down the door when one of the window panes were broken? Surly someone would have looked through and realised that they could have opened the door by reaching in and unlock it the way Mary did? She lost her key and broke the windows during a fight with her on/off boyfriend. She through a boot.
I've always wondered this as well. If a 5 foot tall woman was supposedly gaining entry this way as her boyfriend claimed, you'd think that one of the officers would have thought to try this. It has always made me question the validity of the claim. The pictures certainly don't look like the lock could be reached by a short woman...🤔
Can you imagine that she laid there for 12 hours before they remove the remains. then they brought it to the mortuary where they didn't have refrigerated rooms to keep her body from rapidly decomp. Then buried 2 weeks later. Imagine the smell.
That's absolutely possible. Quite likely actually. Jack was one sick human being, it's scary how ordinary looking evil can be. One of the main reasons he managed to vanish unpunished is that back then they were looking for a lunatic who looked the part of a vicious killer. Criminal profiling basically was yet non existent and little did they know that the Jack they were on the hunt for could merge in a crowd as easily as a water drop in the ocean.
Not many people know, but Mary Kelly, moved from Ireland and settled in Cardiff with her father who was an engineer by trade. She used to drink in a pub called the Bluebell on High Street. She then moved to London looking to go into service, but failed and ended up in prostitution.❤
I'm always sad that the exact locations of bodies can't be found... I've been a cameraman in Hollywood for over 40 years now and did the Custer Battlefield... WWII locations... And others for different documentaries... In my own way I wish they would dig them up to find out once and for all... I'm also ex-service and I would want to be marked correctly if I were to be buried... But that's just my opinion...
It is morbid curiousity for sure but I also want to know who Kelly was, which almost certainly could be achieved with DNA testing. Really annoying is the fact that finding the coffin would not be difficult, since it is inscribed with her name and the message, it just would be tedious and time consuming. So basically, we could exhume her and very likely finally identify her - if we wanted to.
Hi Richard, is it known for certain her birth name was Marie Jeanette Kelly, as on the memorial stone? If so why is she better known to history as Mary Jane?
@@JackTheRipperTours Ah, thanks Richard. I only asked as I found it a little confusing that the memorial stone used a slightly different name to the one most history books / videos use. I guess we'll never know for sure.
I think you've probably forgotten more than most of us will ever know. At least on this subject. I find some aspects of this particular case intriguing. The attendance of the City police for one (they also took photographs) and the belief of Supt Arnold that it wasn't a ripper case. He was also apparently the one who advocated for the erasing of the Goulston Street graffito with Sir Charles Warren just endorsing this decision but ultimately taking all of the blame. I also have a question. Did McCarthy attend the funeral ?
Hi Robert, as far as I know John McCarthy didn't attend the funeral, although I don't know who the person was to whom the newspaper refers as being "from McCarthy. Interestingly, he grave with the angel in the view of the cemetery is John McCarthy's and his wife's grave.
@@JackTheRipperTours From Casebook : Two mourning carriages followed the hearse. One containing Joseph Barnett, a female representative of his former Landlord, John McCarthy, and another woman. The other held five women, some of whom had given evidence at her inquest and were 'unfortunates', like MaryJane. These mourners had prepared themselves for the ordeal by having a couple of drinks in a public house close to the gates of St Leonard's before the ritual began.
I know this is late, but I read that the bloodhounds they were waiting on weren’t owned by the police, they were owned by a breeder named Edwin Brough, and he wasn’t payed or insured for the dog’s work, so he took them back. Inspector Abberline wasn’t told that the dogs had been returned to their owner, so he instructed they wait for the bloodhounds not knowing they weren’t coming.
In some ways, Kelly is the moat tragic. She was only 25. Some of the victim's were not only old, but in advanced stages of disease. One victim was autopsied and had only a few months left (Eddowes i think). Kelly was beautiful, young and in her prime. RIP Kelly.
I've come to believe that Mary Kelly's murder was committed by her estranged husband. The brutality of her murder seemed deeply personal. One that would be carried out by someone she was familiar with. But I guess we'll never know. A fantastic piece as always. Very respectful and insightful.
It was done by the same man who did the previous four murders. Her husband would have been scared off by almost getting caught with Stride. He never would have gone after Eddows.
@@thecawdsquad875 Personally, I've always believed that more than one murderer was at work in Whitechapel that Autumn. Unconnected and unknown to each other, wrongfully united by an incompetent police force and a salacious press.
@@johnjames-glover4630completely agree with that comment. Out of the dozens of ripper books I've read I don't think one has mentioned that idea even though it seems obvious to me and you as well
@@thecawdsquad875 you dont know that at all. The Kelly murder was the only one done inside a house that alone is a huge departure from the modus operandi. Stop stating opinion as facts.
We know these woman were important, but why, at the time did their deaths and funerals command so much attention? The poverty and way some lived made them not matter in society at all, I thought. I guess News Papers pushing, “Another Ripper Murder,” would make her death a bigger deal to people outside of White Chapel. Idk I’m glad they got the attention at death or their names could be lost to history.
In 2023 we can ask ourselves how is it possible that the exact resting place of one of histories most famous murder victims, isn't known for sure? We must remind ourselves that it wasn't until the 1970's that there was renewed interest in the case. So in the intervening almost 100 years, anything could have happened. In the 1940's was anyone particularly interested in a then 60 year old grave? She'd probably been forgotten by then.
I can say what conference that if Jack the Ripper really like to relive his fantasies he most likely visit all the gravesites of each of his victims at least once to reminisce what he did to these poor ladies 😔😔😔 may they rest in peace, and that GOD have them in his mercy.
I wonder if her killer was in that crowd probably so . this somehow reminds me of a Indian chap who Wasn't dead and he started banging on the lid - the man stood up " I'm Alive " he shouted not for long the crowd stoned him to death Core Blimey .
I kind of do wish her body was exumed. So we can get her skull and do a reconstruction of her face and see what she really looked like. Because there are no pictures her when she was alive. She was said to be very beautiful. It be curious to see if she was as beautiful as she was described.
It's always been fishy to myself that the 29 shillings was to be collected @ precisely the time of finding the dead body,how does a Hooker owe rent anyhow?🤔
The fate of all the Whitechapel victims is sad and tragic. The sites where they last breathed have been devastated by change just as the exact locations of their burials are largely lost. But thanks to Mr. Jones and his continuing study of their stories, these women of Whitechapel (who are known to us only because of their fate) will be remembered and appreciated. May their remembrance bring also an appreciation for the thousands of others who lived such difficult lives, short or long, in that dark time and place. Well done sir, as always.
Its ironic that Mary was shown more respect and attention in death than ever in her life. Kudos on again presenting new material in an engaging manner.
Isn't this the case of most people.
@@davidmoore2308 it's ironic that people talk about remembering the victims when in fact the ONLY reason they are remembered 120+ years later is because they were victims. None of us would have heard of Mary Kelly, Polly Nichols, etc if they had died natural deaths
When my team plays a match at Leyton Orient,not far from the ground,I always visit St Patrick’s cemetery to visit Mary’s grave,& lay a single rose.🌹
Why?
That's a beautiful sentiment. Bless your kindness
Micheal man of god .
Such a dignified and poignant tribute. Thank you sir.
Im glad that her body wasnt exhumed.r.i.p mary jane kelly
Mary Jane, may you and those other poor ladies who were brutally murdered with you rest peacefully but never be forgotten, God bless xx
To this day, this is still very sad 😢how all th ladies were killed.
It surely is, a tragedy, a nightmare. Those women deserved better lives.
R.I.P. sweet lady ❤
This channel is awesome. 👍
So sad 😔 The only silver lining is that so many people for so long have remembered and mourned her; if she'd simply died from drink, as so many women like her, she'd have been long forgotten. These poor women led such tragic lives ❤
I have seen that post mortem photo and appreciate your not showing it here. There is no point beyond sensationalism in exhuming any of the victims. Let them lay in peace.
Where did you see that ?
@@Karen-yr3fb The most notorious one, on just about every JtR website and published in every book about the JtR case.
Thank you again for your wonderful research and work.
Very touching. Thank you for this video.
I went to a car boot sale a couple of years ago and one stall was selling a framed and glazed locket of Mary Kelly's hair. He only wanted a fiver. The frame itself was old,possibly from late 19th or early 20th century. I didn't buy it because I assumed it was almost certainly fake and also I thought it might bring bad luck. I still wonder about it.
What an odd thing to sell. Some drunk kid probably bought it for a laugh. Pretty obscene really, trying to sell something so obviously fake and also disrespectful.
@@paulanthony5274 Completely agree with you. It would not be real, and if it had been real it would have been donated to a museum.
There are true crime and serial killer memorabilia websites that sell serial killer letters and art that are authentic but they also sell lockets of Charles mansons hair, rubble from Fred and Rose Wests House and pieces of fabric off ted bundys prison clothing I find it hard to believe those items are authentic and that locket of hair definitely wasn't hers
@@Oakleaf700 Really? Nice people, with morals, would donate it to a museum. Unfortunately, not everyone is nice or has morals and they are the ones that just want the money. Just because someone was trying to sell it, doesn’t mean it was fake and you can’t make that assumption with no evidence. Bad people are out there, hence the reason for the video. R.I.P Mary Kelly
99.999999% chance fake, something that the likes of Walter Sickert and his friends would concoct. If it was genuine, it would be worth its weight in plutonium and an attempt could be made to extract Mary Kelly's DNA.
We have The Five to thank for many innovations in crime detection and social reform. Bless them. They did not live or die in vain.🌹
we dont know for certain it was 5
Her remains were lost but hervspirit is free. How sad the life of Mary and the other victims were. RIP
Rest in Peace, Mary ..You are remembered by so many people who feel empathy for you and the other four innocent victims.
Thank you for the latest upload.
As always very thoughtful and compassionate in how it is presented . I now know not to think of anything else other than a respectful retelling the stories of the ' Ripper ' victims .
In many ways you keep their memories alive and that these were real people who's identity has become morphed with Jack the Ripper .
I hope you can continue with the hard work of research as I always look forward to your next upload.
Rest in peace Mary 🌹
You can tell by the richness of the newspaper descriptions that they were far more detailed in their writing than most of today’s journalists are. Today’s journalists are more plain in their writing because they have the advantage of working with photographers. A picture is worth a thousand words. But without the photo, you need the words. And other reasons, the rules of grammar have drastically changed for one. Today’s journalists tell the subject of the sentence first and then the predicate. The Victorian newspapermen put the predicate first and gradually worked their way back to the subject. Illustrated visually, today’s journalists are like filmmakers who start a scene with a broad shot and gradually work to the close-up. The Victorian newspapermen focus on the close-up detail first and pan their way back out to see the big picture by the end.
Another great historical narrative from the master! Thank you.
Thank you the video was very interesting she had a hard life 🌹🇬🇧
None but the lonely hearts can know my sadness, love lives forever...as written on the tombstone of Mary Jane Kelly...RIP Mary Jane,May you never be forgotten.
A name immortalized through an act of outright savagery. Who among us would not rather be forgotten.
Agreed😢
I often wonder why the police had to break down the door when one of the window panes were broken? Surly someone would have looked through and realised that they could have opened the door by reaching in and unlock it the way Mary did? She lost her key and broke the windows during a fight with her on/off boyfriend. She through a boot.
Maybe shock, horror and adrenaline all kicked in at once and they went into fight or flight mode and just kicked the door in without looking
@@jplonsdale7242 they waited a few hours before the door was forced
I've always wondered this as well. If a 5 foot tall woman was supposedly gaining entry this way as her boyfriend claimed, you'd think that one of the officers would have thought to try this. It has always made me question the validity of the claim. The pictures certainly don't look like the lock could be reached by a short woman...🤔
Many thanks for this :)
Thanks for sharing.
Can you imagine that she laid there for 12 hours before they remove the remains. then they brought it to the mortuary where they didn't have refrigerated rooms to keep her body from rapidly decomp. Then buried 2 weeks later. Imagine the smell.
Seems like a cover-up excuse
12 hours?.
Very poignant. Very respectful video
Im sure Jack the ripper was in the crowd watching..creepy
That's absolutely possible. Quite likely actually. Jack was one sick human being, it's scary how ordinary looking evil can be. One of the main reasons he managed to vanish unpunished is that back then they were looking for a lunatic who looked the part of a vicious killer. Criminal profiling basically was yet non existent and little did they know that the Jack they were on the hunt for could merge in a crowd as easily as a water drop in the ocean.
He got away with dozens of murders.
RIP to Mary+the other 4 victims of JTR…!!! X🙃❤️🙏🏻✝️
The photograph taken at the scene was apparently the first ever crime scene photograph!
It was.
Not many people know, but Mary Kelly, moved from Ireland and settled in Cardiff with her father who was an engineer by trade. She used to drink in a pub called the Bluebell on High Street. She then moved to London looking to go into service, but failed and ended up in prostitution.❤
None ofthis is true
It is-do your research!
And died at a later date...like 1912 maybe
Do you know why the door was forced open when it could apparently be unlocked via the broken window? I’ve often wondered about this
It seems they didn't realise.
I've wondered myself. 🤔 I've wondered if that story was even true...
Thank you.
I'm always sad that the exact locations of bodies can't be found...
I've been a cameraman in Hollywood for over 40 years now and did the Custer Battlefield...
WWII locations...
And others for different documentaries...
In my own way I wish they would dig them up to find out once and for all...
I'm also ex-service and I would want to be marked correctly if I were to be buried...
But that's just my opinion...
It is morbid curiousity for sure but I also want to know who Kelly was, which almost certainly could be achieved with DNA testing.
Really annoying is the fact that finding the coffin would not be difficult, since it is inscribed with her name and the message, it just would be tedious and time consuming.
So basically, we could exhume her and very likely finally identify her - if we wanted to.
Hi Richard, is it known for certain her birth name was Marie Jeanette Kelly, as on the memorial stone?
If so why is she better known to history as Mary Jane?
Hi Rob, to be honest we don't know what her real name was. We don't really know anything about her past.
@@JackTheRipperTours Ah, thanks Richard.
I only asked as I found it a little confusing that the memorial stone used a slightly different name to the one most history books / videos use.
I guess we'll never know for sure.
Hi Rob. The cemetery is using the name that she was buried under, as this was the one on the coffin plate, according to the newspapers.
@@JackTheRipperTours That explains it. Thanks again Richard.
Ive read somewhere that she was once in France with a man, and thats why she liked to use here name as Marie Jeanette?
I think you've probably forgotten more than most of us will ever know. At least on this subject. I find some aspects of this particular case intriguing. The attendance of the City police for one (they also took photographs) and the belief of Supt Arnold that it wasn't a ripper case. He was also apparently the one who advocated for the erasing of the Goulston Street graffito with Sir Charles Warren just endorsing this decision but ultimately taking all of the blame. I also have a question. Did McCarthy attend the funeral ?
Hi Robert, as far as I know John McCarthy didn't attend the funeral, although I don't know who the person was to whom the newspaper refers as being "from McCarthy. Interestingly, he grave with the angel in the view of the cemetery is John McCarthy's and his wife's grave.
@@JackTheRipperTours From Casebook :
Two mourning carriages followed the hearse. One containing Joseph Barnett, a female representative of his former Landlord, John McCarthy, and another woman. The other held five women, some of whom had given evidence at her inquest and were 'unfortunates', like MaryJane. These mourners had prepared themselves for the ordeal by having a couple of drinks in a public house close to the gates of St Leonard's before the ritual began.
I would love to know your opinion of The Five by Hallie Rubenhold
Why did the blood hounds never arrive? That could have actually helped lead to the killer.
I know this is late, but I read that the bloodhounds they were waiting on weren’t owned by the police, they were owned by a breeder named Edwin Brough, and he wasn’t payed or insured for the dog’s work, so he took them back. Inspector Abberline wasn’t told that the dogs had been returned to their owner, so he instructed they wait for the bloodhounds not knowing they weren’t coming.
@@Worldwidedino2140 very convenient
They used the hounds before and they were useless?..The police had to go looking for them because they got lost in the streets of Whitechapel.
In some ways, Kelly is the moat tragic. She was only 25. Some of the victim's were not only old, but in advanced stages of disease. One victim was autopsied and had only a few months left (Eddowes i think). Kelly was beautiful, young and in her prime. RIP Kelly.
No real photos of kelly?..Beautiful in the 1880s could mean not as beautiful as we have today? Women were hard looking in those days.
This would have been so horrific for anyone involved.
Thank you Richard Jones 🎩🔪
My uncle is buried in this cemetery as well.
So is my father in law.Also Timothy Evans and Blakey from On the Buses.This cemetery is a 10 minute walk from me.I live in leytonstone.
@@scratchy1704 Also a number of Alfred Hitchcock's relatives
My Nan too , mostly catholic
Strange how the murders stopped after the kelly Murder, What happened to the killer?
I've come to believe that Mary Kelly's murder was committed by her estranged husband. The brutality of her murder seemed deeply personal. One that would be carried out by someone she was familiar with. But I guess we'll never know. A fantastic piece as always. Very respectful and insightful.
It was done by the same man who did the previous four murders. Her husband would have been scared off by almost getting caught with Stride. He never would have gone after Eddows.
@@thecawdsquad875 Personally, I've always believed that more than one murderer was at work in Whitechapel that Autumn. Unconnected and unknown to each other, wrongfully united by an incompetent police force and a salacious press.
@@johnjames-glover4630completely agree with that comment. Out of the dozens of ripper books I've read I don't think one has mentioned that idea even though it seems obvious to me and you as well
@@thecawdsquad875 you dont know that at all. The Kelly murder was the only one done inside a house that alone is a huge departure from the modus operandi. Stop stating opinion as facts.
@@johnjames-glover4630 me too it makes more sense.
I'd bet my house that Jack himself attended the funeral procession, no doubt smirking slyly the whole time...
We know these woman were important, but why, at the time did their deaths and funerals command so much attention? The poverty and way some lived made them not matter in society at all, I thought. I guess News Papers pushing, “Another Ripper Murder,” would make her death a bigger deal to people outside of White Chapel. Idk
I’m glad they got the attention at death or their names could be lost to history.
Poor lady
How strange yhat soany people came put yo see jer nody snd coffin her guneral
If she had so many friends and family why did they let her walk the streets
Gobbledygook .
Would the blood hounds have made the difference.?
In 2023 we can ask ourselves how is it possible that the exact resting place of one of histories most famous murder victims, isn't known for sure? We must remind ourselves that it wasn't until the 1970's that there was renewed interest in the case. So in the intervening almost 100 years, anything could have happened. In the 1940's was anyone particularly interested in a then 60 year old grave? She'd probably been forgotten by then.
I can say what conference that if Jack the Ripper really like to relive his fantasies he most likely visit all the gravesites of each of his victims at least once to reminisce what he did to these poor ladies 😔😔😔 may they rest in peace, and that GOD have them in his mercy.
Such a pretty lady with a v tragic death
No point in digging up her remains.
They won't be fgotten❤😢
I wonder if her killer was in that crowd
probably so . this somehow reminds me of a Indian chap who Wasn't dead and he started banging on the lid - the man stood up " I'm Alive " he shouted not for long the crowd stoned him to death
Core Blimey .
I kind of do wish her body was exumed. So we can get her skull and do a reconstruction of her face and see what she really looked like. Because there are no pictures her when she was alive. She was said to be very beautiful. It be curious to see if she was as beautiful as she was described.
Yes, same feeling here, and it would be great if, via dna, we could find some relatives of her and sort of give her back a real identity.
Jack was in that crowd.
100%.
London must be nice
They should have exhumed the body. She would have wanted everyone to know who it was that killed her
How would have exhuming her body helped to know who it was that killed her?
Exhumation wouldn't tell us.
That’s detectives for you 😂
It's always been fishy to myself that the 29 shillings was to be collected @ precisely the time of finding the dead body,how does a Hooker owe rent anyhow?🤔
The killer is answering to God now!
Naughty girl
theres plenty of doubt that Kelly wasnt a Ripper victim
Joe Barnett 🔪 1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣✔️
Maybe. Or maybe Barnett was just another victim.
Rest in peace Marie. ❤