Yes, Angelus' relationship with his family was not the same as Spike's. Also they're not the same person. Also, also, Spike didn't save his mom's life he ended her life and turned her into a vampire.
@MrSupertallblackman Your comment is snide and completely pointless. From Spike's point of view, he was saving his mom's life. Next time before you comment, think about whether you have anything to say or if you're just being a snarky a-hole for no good reason. In case you're still confused, you're being a snarky a-hole for no good reason.
@@paulonius42Or what? Oh that's right nothing. I can say whatever I like. The comment made a point about the character I made a counter point. Don't like it cry about it.
@MrSupertallblackman Yes, you have the right to be a dick to strangers in UA-cam comments for no reason, and I have the right to call you out for it. Don't cry about it. Seriously, you are being a dick to strangers about a TV show. If you're that desperate for attention, you have my pity. Now go ahead and keep trying to sound tough, Mr grouchy. It's funny.🤣
Lies My Parents Told Me is one of the best episodes from any Season of the show. Brilliant start in NYC back in 1977 with Spike and Wood's mother fighting it out in Central Park. Once the Prokaroyte Stone is entered into Spikes body Giles believes they will find the Trigger for Spike. Of course this event is traumatic for Spike where we see flashbacks to how he sired his own mother. Wood and Giles conspire to kill Spike but must keep Buffy out of the way, as she would stop this. Once Wood has Spike in his house we see him tooling up to kill Spike. Once again he plays the Trigger song and we are taken back to him and his mother this time very disturbing with incestuous undertones, as the Demon is within his mother is unleashed. Spike confronts Wood about his own mother, who Spike claims didn't love him enough as she was a Slayer and that was her priority. When Giles and Buffy have the conversation in the graveyard, we can see Buffy now say if she had to she would kill Dawn to save the World. We can see how Buffy is just focused on The War ahead. When she realises Giles has stalled her she races to Woods house to find Spike outside. Spike spares Woods life, and Buffy has a very powerful conversation with Woods where she tells him straight out that if Spike decides to kill him, she will not stop him. One of the best episodes of S7 by far.
"The Mission is what matters" repeating his mothers words is so similar to "You're beneath me" from Fool For Love, which ties in brilliantly with this.
The first time I heard Early One Morning, the song that triggered Spike, was when I was very young. It was always played at the end of a children's television show called The Friendly Giant.
I agree this was a great season. Buffy really grasped her mission and accepted it. Everything that happened in the first 6 seasons happens in the last half of season 7. Watch, REALLY WATCH, you'll see it.
You may/may not be aware that the vampire slaying is an analogy for growing up with the show. With that in mind and as the final season it makes sense that Buffy's confidence has grown as she has into adulthood.
Another excellent reactions . One of the themes of the Season is personal growth and accountability of maturity. I think that this Episode shows that really no one has changed into their new roles.😮 Life and the circumstances we face can either force change or retreat to comfort. We love Giles and The Scoobys but when they are challenged with life changes they often fold. Giles in Season 4, Xander also on 4 and his wedding day. Willow when Oz leaves and Tara dies. Willow falls apart then😮 crashes .Compare withBuffy…Angel turns, she cries and then regroups stronger. She loses her Mother, Angel again, her Father the Jerk,clinical depression, and Heaven. Buffy learns and changes. What you have seen so far in the Season is the growth of a girl into a woman.No matter what is given to her she learns, adapts , and grows. Everyone in life will have these challenges but very few can handle them . Buffy has some more hurdles but Giles was right… She is a hero
A lot of people are commenting about Giles being out of character and I get their point in the fact that we're used to seeing a father-figure, or the supporting Buffy side of him most of the time but it's not the full truth. Unfortunately sometimes people don't act the way we want them to act or even think they are going to act. Giles has shown in the past that he's not perfect and that as much as he wants Buffy to grow into her own person it's still hard for him to let go. In season 4 he resented Buffy's sudden shift into independence as she was becoming an adult and it was hard for him to find another purpose. He even tried to revert to their old dynamic by commenting on how not keeping him in the loop for everything and not training everyday with him still was gonna end up making her fail at killing Adam. He also took matters in his own hands in some occasions (Ethan Rayne, Ben at the top of my head) by-passing her judgement or input. It's a good depiction of the shifts between parent and child figures as the child grows into their own person. As a parent you want to teach your child to be independent and think for themselves but it is also hard to see someone you raised disagree with you or make their own choices when you would have done it differently and/or have another point of view. After all children are a reflection of yourself and even perceived subconsciously sometimes as an extension of yourself. When confronted by that change in dynamic which can be stressful, not understandable and even scary it is a standard reaction to try and revert to a past dynamic where the parent tries to forcefully guide or impose choices to their child for "their own good". Especially in the late teens/early twenties when the shift really becomes apparent. Didn't plan on writing that much sorry but it came as I was typing. Thanks to anyone who made the effort to read it all.
I don't think those were good examples. I would say better examples would be how Giles was refusing to let her go to places without telling him during season 1. Or how he drugged her in season 3, under orders from The Council. I don't think Giles is out of character, generally. I think he's out of character UP TO THIS POINT. By season 4-6, Giles character had the exact opposite personality. He was spending time trying to figure out how to move on with his life without being Buffy's watcher or mentor. He was literally about to leave Sunnydale at the start of season 5, as he felt his work was done, before Buffy asked her to continue training her. He flat out left in season 6, as he felt that was best for her, before returning for the finale. So, it definitely feels out of character for him to suddenly take complete control and undermine her decisions this season. Because he hasn't behaved in that manner since season 3.
This is the first time when Giles has willingly gone against Buffy. The first appearance of the Council might have counted, but he got fired for supporting her. Giles may have crossed a Rubicon here. Surely he will support her from here on out? We'll see. Thanks, first, you have completed the entire series in record time! Second, you have provided insights that I had missed before.
Disagree, we saw in The Gift Giles was against Buffy in regards to killing Dawn if it meant saving the world which is why it's brought up in this episode. If it came down to it he would've, if given the opportunity, had Buffy not been there and the ritual had started.
@@crosisx2714 True, but Buffy overrode his decision then, literally threatening to kill anyone who tried to stop her from saving Dawn. I don't want to spoil, but we both know what is coming, and I stand by my call that this is the first actual betrayal by Giles in the series arc.
Giles technically did a couple of things against Buffy's lead - he killed Ben after Buffy spared him. He also initially hypotised Buffy with the crystal to do the abusive watcher test thing (he later did defend her but his initial reaction was to go with the council)
@@LilyJars I agree with your second point, but killing Ben wasn't working against Buffy, but doing something necessary that she couldn't. He even tells us so, "She's a hero you see?" I can see your point of view, but I don't think that killing Ben in order to keep Glory from coming back counts, for me at least. Always interesting to interact with other opinions, though, and thanks!
@@kendavis8046 Completely agree that Giles was right to kill Ben (who still had Glory inside him and was way too dangerous to be left alive). What I mean is Giles wanted to kill Spike for the same reason he wanted to kill Ben. He knows Buffy is too merciful to kill potential threats, and he also knows the First has got an active trigger on Spike and is going to use him as a weapon at some point. From Giles pov, he is doing both things for Buffy's own good (I agree with Buffy that Giles should not have tried to kill Spike though)
actually there are two times that Buffy says she would kill a human in the show, in the episode "Helpless" she tells Giles that if he touches her, she will kill him. And another time in the episode "Lie to me" she mentions to Ford that if the vampires come inside the building, she would kill him herself. To be honest I get why you would say Buffy would never say such a thing, as she values human life and will always protect it- but she did stab Faith with an intent to kill her to save Angel's life- and she is human still although a murderer at the time. Not to mention she killed some of the Knights of the Byzantium and the hyena pack leader villain from season 1- she threw him in the den with the hyenas. Although Buffy did all these things to villains and in self-defense, she has killed humans and will do what she needs to do if left no other choice to save the world. "The mission is what matters"
Yes! when I first heard it I was like OMG I know this from somewhere! Took me a hot min to link it, I think I had to google it and found it mentioned on wikipedia. Such an obscure little bit from my childhood but I loved watching him arrange the tiny rocking chair in front of the fireplace.
Self assured and hardheaded is maybe what you are looking for. But I don't think she has ever been fully pretentious. But she trusted her instincts and her internal compass. And she has grown so much. She learned from her mistakes, and she has become the thing, finally, she thought she was all along.
I understood Wood's anger, but Giles has put Buffy in charge going as far to say she is The General and she is what he was counting on to win. Going against her causes in-fighting, which is what The First wants, so the fact that both Giles and Wood go behind her back don't do their arguments any favors. It is a good thing this isn't the _Game of Thrones_ universe. Buffy would have the legal right to behead both him and Wood without any legal repercussions if that were the case. I enjoy it a little when Buffy closes the door on Giles at the end. Especially as he told her her before leaving town, he taught her all she needs to know, and now that he's back and doesn't like a decision she's making he thinks going behind her back is teaching her a lesson "she needs to learn" when really any in-fighting is something The First would be proud of. Buffy says, "I think you've taught me everything l I need to know" before closing the door on him is a deserved moment for Giles and an earned moment for Buffy. If killing Spike was the last resort Wood and Giles told Buffy it was, Spike wouldn't have the trigger diactivated at the end of the episode. Spike didn't want to talk about the his mother issues to Giles, and would have dealt with his mother issues by talking to Buffy about it alone. It didn't have to be dealt with by Wood forcing the issue out of vengeance. Buffy's personality in S1-3: High school, S4: College, S5: Realizing what the world outside of school is like, S6: Depression and the failure of moving forward and/or growing up, S7 Being an adult. Where as Giles is having a hard time in accepting her being a grown up and that combined with not liking Spike and Buffy's choices concerning him allows him to feel in the right for his actions in this episode when he's really unconsciously doing The First's work by creating in-fighting moments and going against the person he told everyone was "The General."
I hate how Giles is so hypocritical. You can’t tell someone that they are the general and have to make the hard decisions - but only accept them if it agrees with your view entirely
Flashback episodes in BTVS are incredible, and this one did not disappoint. My favorite episode of this season, it's just so good! I love the parallel between Spike's mom and Robin's mom, two different stories about love and abandonment. Oh, and the award for the worst father figure in this episode goes to Giles. What a shitty move, conspiring behind Buffy's back like that.
I think people who think Giles is out of line are right but its not out of character for him to do what he thinks is best if its a hard decision that he doesn't think buffy can make. See killing Ben.
That’s what makes him even more wrong here bc she displayed well before this she wasn’t a naive little girl anymore and capable of making decisions and getting shit done
And one of the metaphors if the series is? Uh, and obviously so, growing up.As Whedon said, the theme of season six was o grow up and that of seven was about power. But hey, who needs to do first hand research. Let's just watch Bullwinkle pull a rabbit out of his hat.
Soo... She's just gonna nod along in agreement as Spike delivers a mountain of gaslighting bullshit to Robin. Nikki Wood signed up to be the slayer? She didn't love Robin enough to quit being the slayer? What fucking show has she been watching for 7 seasons, because neither of those things are even options on Buffy, that has been made explicitly clear.
If you could go back through all of your videos and do a compilation of wrong predictions, you could make a veeeeery long video. Eg Oh, it's going through the nose or ear. Or.... I feel like Giles would always side with Buffy
I really like this episode except for how out of character Giles is. He is completely wrong, and it's as if the past several seasons had never happened. He treats Buffy like a neophyte Slayer instead of the multi-apocalypse stopping Queen of Slayers she's proven herself to be.
Giles here was unforgivable. They broke his character in Season 6 with him abandoning Buffy for the stated reason. I've discussed that elsewhere. Here, however? Well, the First didn't tell Robin about Spike to do _them_ any favors. Okay, Robin's too emotionally invested to think of that, but Giles should have at least raised the issue. And since Spike broke the trigger in this episode it's clear he wasn't useful to the First and so the First was trying to remove a potential threat. They were doing the First's bidding by trying to kill Spike. And Giles never even questioned it? This is not the man fired by the Watchers' Council for having a father's love for Buffy. One of the reasons Season 7 is not my favorite.
That's been the show's gimmick since season 2, though. They always pick and choose what version of the character they want to use when they want to push the plot forward.
Giles royally pissed me off in this episode. His whole spiel about "this is how wars are won" and "it's time to be a General" is so far from true that it's almost laughable. Except for a handful of anecdotal cases, there has never been a General who willingly sacrificed troops to win a war. Generals don't sacrifice troops. Leaders do. Politicians do. Wars are won on two key factors: size of the army, and quality of the weapons/armour. You don't win wars sacrificing troops for no reason, and you sure as hell don't wins wars by sacrificing your best soldiers. Giles in this episode is so out of character. Yes, Spike may pose a threat somewhere down the line. He even volunteered to leave because the First told Andrew it wasn't his time yet. But Buffy wants him there because, and she said it herself, she's in the fight of her life. Honestly, it feels like the entire season to this point has been directed by people all on the same page, and this episode was directed by some blow-in off the street, because that's not how Giles acts normally.
Yeah, Season 1-5 Giles has his faults, but he is awesome. Season 6-7 Giles is largly a disappointment. Not a fan at all with his Character development in the last two seasons...
All the character developments in this show sucks. Spike's is the closest to something good, and even that one has strong problems. This show isn't good at developing their characters.
I have NO idea why the show chose to go side ways blind and ignore that Buffy knew that Spike killed Robin's mother. Giles knew immediately when Robin mentioned Crowley. Yes. Buffy knew. That's why she was avoiding telling Robin who Spike was the first time they met...
Buffy knows that Spike killed two slayers. She knows that Robin's mom was a Slayer that was killed by a vampire. It is never made clear that she makes the connection between the two. Spike could have killed the Slayer before Robin's mom. Robin's mom could have been killed by a different vampire. Until this episode it is not made clear that she knows of the connection. When Robin and Spike first met she did not want to take the time to explain to him why she was fighting alongside a vampire 🤷🤷
@@reneeg9406 But Giles flat out says, "Spike killed your mother. Does Buffy know?" She had to, given the proximity Spike continued to have. They made the mistake of not being as detailed with Angel's past in the early parts of the show. I would think that by the time Spike arrived, Giles and Buffy would have conversed a great deal about who and what he was and is, because of safety. In Fool For Love, Spike was pretty graphic in his explanation of how he killed the last slayer. He doesn't say her name of course, but it's made pretty dern clear that it was in NY. I just don't understand why it was such a value to pretend Buffy had no clue or wasn't clear...
@@larissabrewington9065 Giles put it together when Robin named the watcher. Giles knew that that watcher retired after Nikki woods was killed. Before that moment they may have only referred to Nikki in regards to spike as the second Slayer that he killed. Spike did not know that it was Robin's mom until he was put in the shed. Giles only figured it out in that conversation. And he knew that Robin had not told Buffy and so therefore did not want her to know yet. Giles and Buffy did not exactly have time to talk between Giles conversation with Robin and Giles taking her out to distract her. Giles and Buffy may have spoken about spikes past, but the name of the Slayer may not have ever been mentioned
Angelus' first reaction when becoming a vamp: kill his whole human family. Spike's first reaction when becoming a vamp: save his mum's life
Yep. Each vampire still retains part of who they were some more than others, Spike was a killer for sure but Angelus was a monster.
Yes, Angelus' relationship with his family was not the same as Spike's. Also they're not the same person. Also, also, Spike didn't save his mom's life he ended her life and turned her into a vampire.
@MrSupertallblackman Your comment is snide and completely pointless. From Spike's point of view, he was saving his mom's life.
Next time before you comment, think about whether you have anything to say or if you're just being a snarky a-hole for no good reason. In case you're still confused, you're being a snarky a-hole for no good reason.
@@paulonius42Or what? Oh that's right nothing. I can say whatever I like. The comment made a point about the character I made a counter point. Don't like it cry about it.
@MrSupertallblackman Yes, you have the right to be a dick to strangers in UA-cam comments for no reason, and I have the right to call you out for it. Don't cry about it.
Seriously, you are being a dick to strangers about a TV show. If you're that desperate for attention, you have my pity. Now go ahead and keep trying to sound tough, Mr grouchy. It's funny.🤣
Lies My Parents Told Me is one of the best episodes from any Season of the show. Brilliant start in NYC back in 1977 with Spike and Wood's mother fighting it out in Central Park. Once the Prokaroyte Stone is entered into Spikes body Giles believes they will find the Trigger for Spike. Of course this event is traumatic for Spike where we see flashbacks to how he sired his own mother. Wood and Giles conspire to kill Spike but must keep Buffy out of the way, as she would stop this. Once Wood has Spike in his house we see him tooling up to kill Spike. Once again he plays the Trigger song and we are taken back to him and his mother this time very disturbing with incestuous undertones, as the Demon is within his mother is unleashed. Spike confronts Wood about his own mother, who Spike claims didn't love him enough as she was a Slayer and that was her priority. When Giles and Buffy have the conversation in the graveyard, we can see Buffy now say if she had to she would kill Dawn to save the World. We can see how Buffy is just focused on The War ahead. When she realises Giles has stalled her she races to Woods house to find Spike outside. Spike spares Woods life, and Buffy has a very powerful conversation with Woods where she tells him straight out that if Spike decides to kill him, she will not stop him. One of the best episodes of S7 by far.
It's a great episode, but gods it makes me so mad the whole way through
"The Mission is what matters" repeating his mothers words is so similar to "You're beneath me" from Fool For Love, which ties in brilliantly with this.
"It's either going up his nose or in his ear"
Turns out there is worse! 😂
The first time I heard Early One Morning, the song that triggered Spike, was when I was very young. It was always played at the end of a children's television show called The Friendly Giant.
Season 7 has some absolute banger episodes!
I agree this was a great season. Buffy really grasped her mission and accepted it. Everything that happened in the first 6 seasons happens in the last half of season 7. Watch, REALLY WATCH, you'll see it.
You may/may not be aware that the vampire slaying is an analogy for growing up with the show. With that in mind and as the final season it makes sense that Buffy's confidence has grown as she has into adulthood.
Yes!!!
I’ve noticed some fans dislike Buffys character this season but I love it personally.
Another excellent reactions . One of the themes of the Season is personal growth and accountability of maturity. I think that this Episode shows that really no one has changed into their new roles.😮 Life and the circumstances we face can either force change or retreat to comfort. We love Giles and The Scoobys but when they are challenged with life changes they often fold. Giles in Season 4, Xander also on 4 and his wedding day. Willow when Oz leaves and Tara dies. Willow falls apart then😮 crashes .Compare withBuffy…Angel turns, she cries and then regroups stronger. She loses her Mother, Angel again, her Father the Jerk,clinical depression, and Heaven. Buffy learns and changes. What you have seen so far in the Season is the growth of a girl into a woman.No matter what is given to her she learns, adapts , and grows. Everyone in life will have these challenges but very few can handle them . Buffy has some more hurdles but Giles was right… She is a hero
I love my mom so much, I can't stand the thought of losing her.
This is my favorite episode this season outside of the finale. It's so good!
A lot of people are commenting about Giles being out of character and I get their point in the fact that we're used to seeing a father-figure, or the supporting Buffy side of him most of the time but it's not the full truth.
Unfortunately sometimes people don't act the way we want them to act or even think they are going to act. Giles has shown in the past that he's not perfect and that as much as he wants Buffy to grow into her own person it's still hard for him to let go.
In season 4 he resented Buffy's sudden shift into independence as she was becoming an adult and it was hard for him to find another purpose.
He even tried to revert to their old dynamic by commenting on how not keeping him in the loop for everything and not training everyday with him still was gonna end up making her fail at killing Adam. He also took matters in his own hands in some occasions (Ethan Rayne, Ben at the top of my head) by-passing her judgement or input.
It's a good depiction of the shifts between parent and child figures as the child grows into their own person. As a parent you want to teach your child to be independent and think for themselves but it is also hard to see someone you raised disagree with you or make their own choices when you would have done it differently and/or have another point of view. After all children are a reflection of yourself and even perceived subconsciously sometimes as an extension of yourself. When confronted by that change in dynamic which can be stressful, not understandable and even scary it is a standard reaction to try and revert to a past dynamic where the parent tries to forcefully guide or impose choices to their child for "their own good". Especially in the late teens/early twenties when the shift really becomes apparent.
Didn't plan on writing that much sorry but it came as I was typing. Thanks to anyone who made the effort to read it all.
I don't think those were good examples. I would say better examples would be how Giles was refusing to let her go to places without telling him during season 1. Or how he drugged her in season 3, under orders from The Council.
I don't think Giles is out of character, generally. I think he's out of character UP TO THIS POINT.
By season 4-6, Giles character had the exact opposite personality. He was spending time trying to figure out how to move on with his life without being Buffy's watcher or mentor. He was literally about to leave Sunnydale at the start of season 5, as he felt his work was done, before Buffy asked her to continue training her. He flat out left in season 6, as he felt that was best for her, before returning for the finale.
So, it definitely feels out of character for him to suddenly take complete control and undermine her decisions this season. Because he hasn't behaved in that manner since season 3.
After the trigger wore off woods got one shot in on Spike 🤣🤣🤣🤣
This is the first time when Giles has willingly gone against Buffy. The first appearance of the Council might have counted, but he got fired for supporting her.
Giles may have crossed a Rubicon here. Surely he will support her from here on out? We'll see.
Thanks, first, you have completed the entire series in record time! Second, you have provided insights that I had missed before.
Disagree, we saw in The Gift Giles was against Buffy in regards to killing Dawn if it meant saving the world which is why it's brought up in this episode. If it came down to it he would've, if given the opportunity, had Buffy not been there and the ritual had started.
@@crosisx2714 True, but Buffy overrode his decision then, literally threatening to kill anyone who tried to stop her from saving Dawn. I don't want to spoil, but we both know what is coming, and I stand by my call that this is the first actual betrayal by Giles in the series arc.
Giles technically did a couple of things against Buffy's lead - he killed Ben after Buffy spared him. He also initially hypotised Buffy with the crystal to do the abusive watcher test thing (he later did defend her but his initial reaction was to go with the council)
@@LilyJars I agree with your second point, but killing Ben wasn't working against Buffy, but doing something necessary that she couldn't. He even tells us so, "She's a hero you see?" I can see your point of view, but I don't think that killing Ben in order to keep Glory from coming back counts, for me at least.
Always interesting to interact with other opinions, though, and thanks!
@@kendavis8046 Completely agree that Giles was right to kill Ben (who still had Glory inside him and was way too dangerous to be left alive). What I mean is Giles wanted to kill Spike for the same reason he wanted to kill Ben. He knows Buffy is too merciful to kill potential threats, and he also knows the First has got an active trigger on Spike and is going to use him as a weapon at some point. From Giles pov, he is doing both things for Buffy's own good (I agree with Buffy that Giles should not have tried to kill Spike though)
Buffy would never say to a human I will kill you.
actually there are two times that Buffy says she would kill a human in the show, in the episode "Helpless" she tells Giles that if he touches her, she will kill him. And another time in the episode "Lie to me" she mentions to Ford that if the vampires come inside the building, she would kill him herself. To be honest I get why you would say Buffy would never say such a thing, as she values human life and will always protect it- but she did stab Faith with an intent to kill her to save Angel's life- and she is human still although a murderer at the time. Not to mention she killed some of the Knights of the Byzantium and the hyena pack leader villain from season 1- she threw him in the den with the hyenas. Although Buffy did all these things to villains and in self-defense, she has killed humans and will do what she needs to do if left no other choice to save the world. "The mission is what matters"
The Friendly Giant!!! (referring to the song, for non-Canadians)
Yes! when I first heard it I was like OMG I know this from somewhere! Took me a hot min to link it, I think I had to google it and found it mentioned on wikipedia. Such an obscure little bit from my childhood but I loved watching him arrange the tiny rocking chair in front of the fireplace.
Now, look up... Waaaaaay up! And we're on our way to the castle.
Self assured and hardheaded is maybe what you are looking for. But I don't think she has ever been fully pretentious. But she trusted her instincts and her internal compass. And she has grown so much. She learned from her mistakes, and she has become the thing, finally, she thought she was all along.
Remember how badly Giles and Wood wanted to kill Spike because it would be the end of them.
The best spike episode ever
I said many many times season 7 is and always be my favorite of all around seasons
Season 7 is my favorite, as well. And it's about to get even better...
I completely agree, so many people don't like Buffy's character progression this season but I love it personally.
A slayer who walks away from her duties is walking away from everyone, including their children.
Hmm I wonder if Spike's pre-siring relationship with his mother is part of the reason that he and Joyce got along so well? Mommy issues?
His mother saying those awful things to him before (or after, depending) he killed her makes your use of the term "mommy issues" sound quite trite
THIS should be the storyline for the spinoff.
I understood Wood's anger, but Giles has put Buffy in charge going as far to say she is The General and she is what he was counting on to win. Going against her causes in-fighting, which is what The First wants, so the fact that both Giles and Wood go behind her back don't do their arguments any favors. It is a good thing this isn't the _Game of Thrones_ universe. Buffy would have the legal right to behead both him and Wood without any legal repercussions if that were the case. I enjoy it a little when Buffy closes the door on Giles at the end. Especially as he told her her before leaving town, he taught her all she needs to know, and now that he's back and doesn't like a decision she's making he thinks going behind her back is teaching her a lesson "she needs to learn" when really any in-fighting is something The First would be proud of. Buffy says, "I think you've taught me everything l I need to know" before closing the door on him is a deserved moment for Giles and an earned moment for Buffy. If killing Spike was the last resort Wood and Giles told Buffy it was, Spike wouldn't have the trigger diactivated at the end of the episode. Spike didn't want to talk about the his mother issues to Giles, and would have dealt with his mother issues by talking to Buffy about it alone. It didn't have to be dealt with by Wood forcing the issue out of vengeance.
Buffy's personality in S1-3: High school, S4: College, S5: Realizing what the world outside of school is like, S6: Depression and the failure of moving forward and/or growing up, S7 Being an adult. Where as Giles is having a hard time in accepting her being a grown up and that combined with not liking Spike and Buffy's choices concerning him allows him to feel in the right for his actions in this episode when he's really unconsciously doing The First's work by creating in-fighting moments and going against the person he told everyone was "The General."
All of this 🙌
I hate how Giles is so hypocritical.
You can’t tell someone that they are the general and have to make the hard decisions - but only accept them if it agrees with your view entirely
This might be my favourite episode in the whole show ngl
Cut him some slack! He doesn't have his angel wings! 😂
Flashback episodes in BTVS are incredible, and this one did not disappoint. My favorite episode of this season, it's just so good! I love the parallel between Spike's mom and Robin's mom, two different stories about love and abandonment.
Oh, and the award for the worst father figure in this episode goes to Giles. What a shitty move, conspiring behind Buffy's back like that.
loved the reaction :)
Comparing this with season 1 it feels like a completely different show
I think people who think Giles is out of line are right but its not out of character for him to do what he thinks is best if its a hard decision that he doesn't think buffy can make. See killing Ben.
That’s what makes him even more wrong here bc she displayed well before this she wasn’t a naive little girl anymore and capable of making decisions and getting shit done
Season 7 Buffy is elite 👌
All in on Buffy's demeanor? You'll love the next episode then.
Spike has a good point
giles demonstrating once again that he's really lost the plot post season five
Woods is a dummy Lmao imagine thinking he had a shot at killing spike
God I love this episode! I love Spike so much and Spuffy is just everything ❤ goosebumps everywhere 🙌🏻😌🔥
And one of the metaphors if the series is? Uh, and obviously so, growing up.As Whedon said, the theme of season six was o grow up and that of seven was about power. But hey, who needs to do first hand research. Let's just watch Bullwinkle pull a rabbit out of his hat.
Watching spike destroy woods is so satisfying no matter how many times I watch it
Where is the next episode of Buffy? We're waiting and terribly sad for the end to come..
Soo... She's just gonna nod along in agreement as Spike delivers a mountain of gaslighting bullshit to Robin.
Nikki Wood signed up to be the slayer?
She didn't love Robin enough to quit being the slayer?
What fucking show has she been watching for 7 seasons, because neither of those things are even options on Buffy, that has been made explicitly clear.
Giles tells Buffy that she has to be a general. Remember that line (or more specifically that he told her that), as it has significance in the future.
It's stupid a vampire is supposed to be able to drain a person of all their blood just because they put 2 tiny holes in their neck.
Just wait for the next episode!!! You’ll be a bit conflicted just cause of something
Amenadial....
Alright Cass past this point big spoilers ahead as especially if you don't watch the next ep of Angel
If you could go back through all of your videos and do a compilation of wrong predictions, you could make a veeeeery long video.
Eg Oh, it's going through the nose or ear.
Or.... I feel like Giles would always side with Buffy
I really like this episode except for how out of character Giles is. He is completely wrong, and it's as if the past several seasons had never happened. He treats Buffy like a neophyte Slayer instead of the multi-apocalypse stopping Queen of Slayers she's proven herself to be.
He's completely in character, and completely right. Spike is evil.
Giles here was unforgivable. They broke his character in Season 6 with him abandoning Buffy for the stated reason. I've discussed that elsewhere. Here, however? Well, the First didn't tell Robin about Spike to do _them_ any favors. Okay, Robin's too emotionally invested to think of that, but Giles should have at least raised the issue.
And since Spike broke the trigger in this episode it's clear he wasn't useful to the First and so the First was trying to remove a potential threat.
They were doing the First's bidding by trying to kill Spike. And Giles never even questioned it?
This is not the man fired by the Watchers' Council for having a father's love for Buffy. One of the reasons Season 7 is not my favorite.
That's been the show's gimmick since season 2, though. They always pick and choose what version of the character they want to use when they want to push the plot forward.
Giles royally pissed me off in this episode. His whole spiel about "this is how wars are won" and "it's time to be a General" is so far from true that it's almost laughable. Except for a handful of anecdotal cases, there has never been a General who willingly sacrificed troops to win a war. Generals don't sacrifice troops. Leaders do. Politicians do. Wars are won on two key factors: size of the army, and quality of the weapons/armour. You don't win wars sacrificing troops for no reason, and you sure as hell don't wins wars by sacrificing your best soldiers.
Giles in this episode is so out of character. Yes, Spike may pose a threat somewhere down the line. He even volunteered to leave because the First told Andrew it wasn't his time yet. But Buffy wants him there because, and she said it herself, she's in the fight of her life.
Honestly, it feels like the entire season to this point has been directed by people all on the same page, and this episode was directed by some blow-in off the street, because that's not how Giles acts normally.
Yeah, Season 1-5 Giles has his faults, but he is awesome. Season 6-7 Giles is largly a disappointment. Not a fan at all with his Character development in the last two seasons...
All the character developments in this show sucks. Spike's is the closest to something good, and even that one has strong problems. This show isn't good at developing their characters.
I have NO idea why the show chose to go side ways blind and ignore that Buffy knew that Spike killed Robin's mother. Giles knew immediately when Robin mentioned Crowley. Yes. Buffy knew. That's why she was avoiding telling Robin who Spike was the first time they met...
Buffy knows that Spike killed two slayers. She knows that Robin's mom was a Slayer that was killed by a vampire. It is never made clear that she makes the connection between the two. Spike could have killed the Slayer before Robin's mom. Robin's mom could have been killed by a different vampire. Until this episode it is not made clear that she knows of the connection. When Robin and Spike first met she did not want to take the time to explain to him why she was fighting alongside a vampire 🤷🤷
@@reneeg9406 But Giles flat out says, "Spike killed your mother. Does Buffy know?" She had to, given the proximity Spike continued to have. They made the mistake of not being as detailed with Angel's past in the early parts of the show. I would think that by the time Spike arrived, Giles and Buffy would have conversed a great deal about who and what he was and is, because of safety.
In Fool For Love, Spike was pretty graphic in his explanation of how he killed the last slayer. He doesn't say her name of course, but it's made pretty dern clear that it was in NY.
I just don't understand why it was such a value to pretend Buffy had no clue or wasn't clear...
@@larissabrewington9065 Giles put it together when Robin named the watcher. Giles knew that that watcher retired after Nikki woods was killed. Before that moment they may have only referred to Nikki in regards to spike as the second Slayer that he killed. Spike did not know that it was Robin's mom until he was put in the shed. Giles only figured it out in that conversation. And he knew that Robin had not told Buffy and so therefore did not want her to know yet. Giles and Buffy did not exactly have time to talk between Giles conversation with Robin and Giles taking her out to distract her. Giles and Buffy may have spoken about spikes past, but the name of the Slayer may not have ever been mentioned
Umm Buffy has never been good with remembering slayer history… it’s been a big thing in the show since the beginning.