My favorite bass track for setting subwoofers is Flight of the Cosmic Hippo by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones. Bass player Victor Wooten plays a solo the moves up and down through the typical crossover frequencies, and also goes extremely low. Makes it easy to hear overlap and phasing problems.
I've came to that conclusion myself. I wasn't sure how to tune my subwoofer and initially had it very prominent because bass is fun! But it was drowning out the definition of the main speakers. Much better at a subtle level.
i tried the method of placing the sub at my seat and going all around my room. it sounded the best at my chair, so now i have a 10" sealed sub, a 12" ported woofer and a 15" ported sub within a foot of my chair. it sounds fantastic and i actually turned the bass down🤯 on my receiver.
@@Harald_Reindl it does work, fantastically at that, it is called a "near field" set-up. it removes the room basically. i only near field the bass speakers and the highs and mids cabinets are "properly" placed.
@@toveryonder1115 I did exactly that for a friend who live in a small oddly shaped apartment and wanted someone to help fix his subwoofer's lack of impact.
@@toveryonder1115 Placing the subwoofer in the near-field is a trick that is not often mentioned. This might not be the "textbook" placement, but it does allow you to feel the impact from the bass.
@@siangmingalexlau8220 i want to hear 13hz and I don't want to spend $400 on an amp to end up getting kicked out of my apt🤣. paul did a video on near field subs a while ago & i got all excited because it was about 3 weeks after i moved everything around. for an extreme budget build i am doing great😁
4:30 I tried the Boz Scaggs song on my Audiolab 6000A and my made bass reflex stereo speakers (no sub). The speakers have a 6.5" woofer and a 5" FR driver. I could hear the like pure sine wave bass low note near the speaker and right at the back of the room and to one extreme side of the room but at normal listening position...well not so much. That is a BIG understatement! At near field the bass note was so clear that it nearly dominated. And that note is DEEP! But at listening position that low sine wave note had COMPLETELY DISAPPEARD! Only the octave plus higher harmonics (doubling) and even that was unprecedentedly quiet! The reason Paul suggests a sub, and in the right placement I would hear that sensational pure sine wave 40 hz in the normal listening position. That would be awesome. I knew that rooms affect bass but not by that much. Thanks Paul, I learnt something and might make a sub with my BOSE style acoustic madness. These speakers I made absolutely SMOKE my B&W 706s reference speakers. Looks like I will have to buy some other standard 2- ways as reference speakets to smoke. The more speakers I buy the better my speakers will be. Still cheaper than a sound proof room and all that equipment and super mics etc. And easier. I reckon 3 diffetent pairs would just about do it. At 2-3 grand a pair it's not too expensive and speakers last a while. They are simple and don't break down like complex equipment can. At least at that price the bass treble and med should reasonably be at the right level. But still, I don't like my B&Ws that cost over 2 grand AU but those suckers taught me how to make speakers! So the B&Ws must be all right, it's just a bad amp match and room match more than anything. But I made a fine adjustment on my made speakers to better match the amp and the room. And my made speakers smoke my B&Ws mainly for that reason. But also cos mine are point source and semi open cones. The drivers have an air gap between them and the box (making them semi dipole). So they sound "different" but only in an acoustic way. More spacial. Thanks Paul.
A good acoustic Bass track that I like to use is John David Souther’s album “Black Rose“ where he sings one of his famous compositions “Silver Blue” where the only two instruments playing are Souther’s beautiful acoustic Guitar and Stanley Clarke on a huge AA base. That track allows me to evaluate my system to hear if I’ve got it to suit my sensibilities. On electric Bass, much of Jaco Pastorius’ work reveals a lot about the way this entirely different kind of Bass in my listening room. Clean and tight is what I am listening for here. When both of these tracks sound spot on I know that it’s going to be a good listening day.
I don’t want to sound rude, I just want to comment on the bass in the song Boz Scags, Thanks to You: It is played with a synthesizer, most likely the legendary Minimoog. And thank you for all your invaluable videos and the time you give us.
I use tone generator and my ear. If its set wrong there are usually peaks around 70-80hz region. So I use my crossover knob and subwoofer amp level to make it flat.
The key to adjusting eq and crossovers is as you adjust it will go from natural sounding to not natural sounding, just listen for what sounds natural, it's easy.
Vandersteen has speakers (Quatro and up) that include powered sub-woofers. They are dialed in, for the purpose of room correction, with 11 potentiometers. The potentiometers allow you to boost and lower 11 individual bass frequencies in each speaker, resulting in as near a flat response as you can get, resulting in the bass just sounding right. Vandersteen also has outboard subs that do the same thing, and this allows you to place the subs where you want, rather than where you have to (when no potentiometers exist). The potentiometers will compensate for their placement in relation to your room's acoustics. I am confident that Paul is aware of this engineering, and perhaps he has such a solution on his radar for future speakers? His FR30s can only benefit from every household being able to nail down the bass.
@@Roof_Pizza Ideally, if you have the room and the $$, you should have both. The advantage of having a built-in sub-woofer with potentiometers is that you can tailor the main speaker's bass to be just right. Otherwise, your main speakers will have bumps and lulls in the bass at one or more frequencies. Even if those bumps and lulls happen to not be severe, they will still be there, and when you flatten them out, the bass just sounds right. With the addition of adding separate sub-woofers that have potentiometers, you will further reduce the strain on your amp(s) (the subs have their own amps), and have even less bass produced form your main speakers. The advantage of less bass from your main speakers means that your main speakers will shake less, resulting in your mid-range and tweeter drivers shaking less, resulting in you hearing a more focused image. When I wrote "less bass", that does not mean your stereo will be lacking bass. Not by a long shot. You will have powerful, deep, effortless bass, and it will precision tuned.
Room Equalisation Wizard - REW - is a great free tool for measuring speaker/room frequency response with a $50 calibrated microphone and a PC or laptop with a sound card. Only downside is that you'll probably be shocked how uneven the average speaker/room response is !
you dont need any of those, an website tone generator and ears is the things that determines if the response is flat to you. but you do need Realtime parametric eq.
You basically have 2 choices you can try. Set it at 80 hz. Which is what most theaters set it out and thx-certified. You can also set it at 10 HZ above the lowest frequency of your main so they roll off. Like he said though generally the bass should sound like it's coming from the all the speakers if you can hear from what direction is coming from then you got it set up wrong.
I bought a Rel Quake and the goal was to set it up so in complements my speakers without the wife knowing I’d bought another piece of audio equipment. Placement was underneath my table at my side of the sofa 😂
that's nonsense putting the subwoofer in you're listening positioning, that's not going to give you the same as moving it to a different positioning. the ideal place for subwoofers is against the wall and the driver pointing into the wall about 6" away, adjust your main speakers with a sound generator from your phone 660 Hz and below to eliminate comb effect, and ideally switching the phase of your woofer on your main speaker and cross it over at 40 Hz. same thing if you want to eliminate room cancellation place a speaker behind you on the back wall facing your main speakers at 660 Hz crossover out of phase and with delay, no room treatment necessary. this will increase your low base and low mid-range. helpful to get a cheap calibrated USB microphone, REW software is free, this will tell you what your room is doing and what needs to be done with placement
It’s not nonsense. You put it in the listening position and then YOU move positions. Otherwise you’re spending hours moving the sub instead of just crawling around.
You are correct in how you are placing your subwoofer(s). I did the same thing in my sleeper truck, placing the subwoofer on the passenger seat facing the dash and windshield. The difference was dramatically different in the deeper bass and how the bass worked from that 8 inch subwoofer I used it as a plain old fashioned bass speaker with the 250 watt subwoofer output from car amplifier settings. You will never convince people that are using their subwoofer as an excursion woofer. They do this for rap music and home theater movies. OK 👍 I am not in that camp. I want one note deep bass only. The sub hits that bass note hard and powerful, turns off after the bass note. No excision from the subwoofer. It only hits the bass notes. That is what I want when listening to classical music, Jazz, Blues and rock. That sub moves a tremendous amount of air pressure with each bass note with 250 watts powering it from the external amplifier. Remember home speakers with 12 to 15 inch woofer speakers hooked up to powerful amplifier. ?? I get that same impact with my 8 inch Sub. Thus this posted message is a waste of time. LOL. I look at it this way. It’s their subwoofer, their stereo, they listen to the way they want. LOL. I listen to my setup the way I want, it’s my system..LOL.
@@Harald_Reindl yeah they do. The sub crawl has been around for decades for a reason. If you think Paul doesn’t know how audio works, why are you watching his videos? Weird…
@@slapstra1970 measure and adjust it before you listen and the sad news is that all your shiny expensive gear and speakers are useless until your room acoustics works fine
@@slapstra1970 And if you don't measure but enjoy fine for you - people with brain measure, build and AFTER IT enjoy for decades - 50% of what your hear is the room anyways - enjoy the shit you have - so what
People make it so complex to set up a sub. Just place it next to a front speaker, set the cut off point at 80hz, play music with some bass and then turn the volume until you hear the bass coming from the centre. You might have to turn the volume past the mid point before you hear any bass if you have large speakers. Toggle with the phase swtch to pick the one with the more bass response. Not rocket science. Dump all this crap room equalizer in the bin.
My favorite bass track for setting subwoofers is Flight of the Cosmic Hippo by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones. Bass player Victor Wooten plays a solo the moves up and down through the typical crossover frequencies, and also goes extremely low. Makes it easy to hear overlap and phasing problems.
Setting up my first sub over the last couple days. Great suggestion!
Paul, you are an absolutely amazing entrepreneur!
I've came to that conclusion myself. I wasn't sure how to tune my subwoofer and initially had it very prominent because bass is fun! But it was drowning out the definition of the main speakers. Much better at a subtle level.
i tried the method of placing the sub at my seat and going all around my room. it sounded the best at my chair, so now i have a 10" sealed sub, a 12" ported woofer and a 15" ported sub within a foot of my chair. it sounds fantastic and i actually turned the bass down🤯 on my receiver.
That don't work because room modes don't not work that way
@@Harald_Reindl it does work, fantastically at that, it is called a "near field" set-up. it removes the room basically. i only near field the bass speakers and the highs and mids cabinets are "properly" placed.
@@toveryonder1115 I did exactly that for a friend who live in a small oddly shaped apartment and wanted someone to help fix his subwoofer's lack of impact.
@@toveryonder1115 Placing the subwoofer in the near-field is a trick that is not often mentioned. This might not be the "textbook" placement, but it does allow you to feel the impact from the bass.
@@siangmingalexlau8220 i want to hear 13hz and I don't want to spend $400 on an amp to end up getting kicked out of my apt🤣. paul did a video on near field subs a while ago & i got all excited because it was about 3 weeks after i moved everything around. for an extreme budget build i am doing great😁
4:30 I tried the Boz Scaggs song on my Audiolab 6000A and my made bass reflex stereo speakers (no sub). The speakers have a 6.5" woofer and a 5" FR driver. I could hear the like pure sine wave bass low note near the speaker and right at the back of the room and to one extreme side of the room but at normal listening position...well not so much. That is a BIG understatement! At near field the bass note was so clear that it nearly dominated. And that note is DEEP! But at listening position that low sine wave note had COMPLETELY DISAPPEARD! Only the octave plus higher harmonics (doubling) and even that was unprecedentedly quiet! The reason Paul suggests a sub, and in the right placement I would hear that sensational pure sine wave 40 hz in the normal listening position. That would be awesome. I knew that rooms affect bass but not by that much. Thanks Paul, I learnt something and might make a sub with my BOSE style acoustic madness. These speakers I made absolutely SMOKE my B&W 706s reference speakers. Looks like I will have to buy some other standard 2- ways as reference speakets to smoke. The more speakers I buy the better my speakers will be. Still cheaper than a sound proof room and all that equipment and super mics etc. And easier. I reckon 3 diffetent pairs would just about do it. At 2-3 grand a pair it's not too expensive and speakers last a while. They are simple and don't break down like complex equipment can. At least at that price the bass treble and med should reasonably be at the right level. But still, I don't like my B&Ws that cost over 2 grand AU but those suckers taught me how to make speakers! So the B&Ws must be all right, it's just a bad amp match and room match more than anything. But I made a fine adjustment on my made speakers to better match the amp and the room. And my made speakers smoke my B&Ws mainly for that reason. But also cos mine are point source and semi open cones. The drivers have an air gap between them and the box (making them semi dipole). So they sound "different" but only in an acoustic way. More spacial. Thanks Paul.
A good acoustic Bass track that I like to use is John David Souther’s album “Black Rose“ where he sings one of his famous compositions “Silver Blue” where the only two instruments playing are Souther’s beautiful acoustic Guitar and Stanley Clarke on a huge AA base. That track allows me to evaluate my system to hear if I’ve got it to suit my sensibilities.
On electric Bass, much of Jaco Pastorius’ work reveals a lot about the way this entirely different kind of Bass in my listening room. Clean and tight is what I am listening for here. When both of these tracks sound spot on I know that it’s going to be a good listening day.
I don’t want to sound rude, I just want to comment on the bass in the song Boz Scags, Thanks to You: It is played with a synthesizer, most likely the legendary Minimoog. And thank you for all your invaluable videos and the time you give us.
I use tone generator and my ear. If its set wrong there are usually peaks around 70-80hz region. So I use my crossover knob and subwoofer amp level to make it flat.
Very kind. Thanks
thank you this was also a question I had
The key to adjusting eq and crossovers is as you adjust it will go from natural sounding to not natural sounding, just listen for what sounds natural, it's easy.
I have mine on centre between my stand mounts - sounds fantastic👍
By ear is the way.
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Vandersteen has speakers (Quatro and up) that include powered sub-woofers.
They are dialed in, for the purpose of room correction, with 11 potentiometers. The potentiometers allow you to boost and lower 11 individual bass frequencies in each speaker, resulting in as near a flat response as you can get, resulting in the bass just sounding right.
Vandersteen also has outboard subs that do the same thing, and this allows you to place the subs where you want, rather than where you have to (when no potentiometers exist).
The potentiometers will compensate for their placement in relation to your room's acoustics.
I am confident that Paul is aware of this engineering, and perhaps he has such a solution on his radar for future speakers?
His FR30s can only benefit from every household being able to nail down the bass.
Given the choice I'd rather separate subwoofers.
@@Roof_Pizza Ideally, if you have the room and the $$, you should have both.
The advantage of having a built-in sub-woofer with potentiometers is that you can tailor the main speaker's bass to be just right. Otherwise, your main speakers will have bumps and lulls in the bass at one or more frequencies. Even if those bumps and lulls happen to not be severe, they will still be there, and when you flatten them out, the bass just sounds right.
With the addition of adding separate sub-woofers that have potentiometers, you will further reduce the strain on your amp(s) (the subs have their own amps), and have even less bass produced form your main speakers. The advantage of less bass from your main speakers means that your main speakers will shake less, resulting in your mid-range and tweeter drivers shaking less, resulting in you hearing a more focused image.
When I wrote "less bass", that does not mean your stereo will be lacking bass. Not by a long shot. You will have powerful, deep, effortless bass, and it will precision tuned.
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😁 I bought the audio files guide and CD used it and passed it on to a friend😍😍😍
I wish to get this new audiophile guide . I do have the old one is the new one book and disc or disc only thanks
Get REW, a microphone and and a notebook
🙋👍❤️
Room Equalisation Wizard - REW - is a great free tool for measuring speaker/room frequency response with a $50 calibrated microphone and a PC or laptop with a sound card.
Only downside is that you'll probably be shocked how uneven the average speaker/room response is !
you dont need any of those, an website tone generator and ears is the things that determines if the response is flat to you. but you do need Realtime parametric eq.
Mexican vegetation food. Elotes, nopales, roasted potatoes chilaquiles. 😋
Not clear the name of the pianist..can you help?
You basically have 2 choices you can try. Set it at 80 hz. Which is what most theaters set it out and thx-certified. You can also set it at 10 HZ above the lowest frequency of your main so they roll off. Like he said though generally the bass should sound like it's coming from the all the speakers if you can hear from what direction is coming from then you got it set up wrong.
I bought a Rel Quake and the goal was to set it up so in complements my speakers without the wife knowing I’d bought another piece of audio equipment. Placement was underneath my table at my side of the sofa 😂
So the equilateral triangle thingie is a Lie? 🤔
No. Subwoofers are best if you corner load them which means you're placing them in the corners of the room either back or front.
@@tommyK7282 " if you corner load them" - rarely a good idea if you want a quality sound.
that's nonsense putting the subwoofer in you're listening positioning, that's not going to give you the same as moving it to a different positioning.
the ideal place for subwoofers is against the wall and the driver pointing into the wall about 6" away, adjust your main speakers with a sound generator from your phone 660 Hz and below to eliminate comb effect, and ideally switching the phase of your woofer on your main speaker and cross it over at 40 Hz.
same thing if you want to eliminate room cancellation place a speaker behind you on the back wall facing your main speakers at 660 Hz crossover out of phase and with delay, no room treatment necessary.
this will increase your low base and low mid-range.
helpful to get a cheap calibrated USB microphone, REW software is free, this will tell you what your room is doing and what needs to be done with placement
It’s not nonsense. You put it in the listening position and then YOU move positions. Otherwise you’re spending hours moving the sub instead of just crawling around.
You are correct in how you are placing your subwoofer(s).
I did the same thing in my sleeper truck, placing the subwoofer on the passenger seat facing the dash and windshield. The difference was dramatically different in the deeper bass and how the bass worked from that 8 inch subwoofer I used it as a plain old fashioned bass speaker with the 250 watt subwoofer output from car amplifier settings.
You will never convince people that are using their subwoofer as an excursion woofer. They do this for rap music and home theater movies. OK 👍
I am not in that camp. I want one note deep bass only. The sub hits that bass note hard and powerful, turns off after the bass note. No excision from the subwoofer. It only hits the bass notes. That is what I want when listening to classical music, Jazz, Blues and rock.
That sub moves a tremendous amount of air pressure with each bass note with 250 watts powering it from the external amplifier. Remember home speakers with 12 to 15 inch woofer speakers hooked up to powerful amplifier. ??
I get that same impact with my 8 inch Sub.
Thus this posted message is a waste of time. LOL. I look at it this way.
It’s their subwoofer, their stereo, they listen to the way they want. LOL. I listen to my setup the way I want, it’s my system..LOL.
@@tylerhackman6832 it is nonsense because room modes don't work that naive
But you also have no clue - speakers and walls are natural enemies - you get room gain and a fat bass - quantity versus quality
@@Harald_Reindl yeah they do. The sub crawl has been around for decades for a reason. If you think Paul doesn’t know how audio works, why are you watching his videos? Weird…
You don't adjust hifi by ear - period
Ha, hifi is to be measured not enjoyed!
@@slapstra1970 measure and adjust it before you listen and the sad news is that all your shiny expensive gear and speakers are useless until your room acoustics works fine
@@slapstra1970 And if you don't measure but enjoy fine for you - people with brain measure, build and AFTER IT enjoy for decades - 50% of what your hear is the room anyways - enjoy the shit you have - so what
People make it so complex to set up a sub. Just place it next to a front speaker, set the cut off point at 80hz, play music with some bass and then turn the volume until you hear the bass coming from the centre. You might have to turn the volume past the mid point before you hear any bass if you have large speakers. Toggle with the phase swtch to pick the one with the more bass response. Not rocket science. Dump all this crap room equalizer in the bin.