The curve is tighter than it looks. Coupled with drivers getting tunnel vision due to the acceleration of Group B cars and the very light skid marks, Henri probably didn't realize how much it tightened and tried to brake but ran out of space. He would've been world champion that year.
"He would've been world champion that year" well, thats a bit optimistic. He only had finished the monte carlo rally that year, which he won. The other 3 rallies he didnt finished or participated then he died. By the time he died he was already behind Kankkunen (who was the champion that year) and Alen Markku and tied with another 2 drivers in the 3rd place.
@@Flores1a11 which doesnt mean a thing. just a quick check, Björn Waldegård competed in less events than Toivonen that year, and finished in 4th with more than twice the points Toivonen had, same with Lars-Erik Torph.. There are others who competed less and are ahead of Toivonen Im not totally aware, but a quick check in ewrc, says Toivonen 'finished' 13th that year, not 7th.. And 90% of the guys to who he finished above had competed in only a single event.
Henri had also confided in a couple of close friends that he'd been suffering from micro-blackouts in preceding months which he had deliberately kept to himself for fear of him losing his medical and henceforth his position at Lancia. At the time of the crash, he was over 2 minutes ahead of second-placed Peugeot driver Bruno Saby, so could have easily slowed while keeping his comfortable lead.
This video uses a Group A Lancia Delta Integrale HF 16v (similar to the one on the car of another great finnish pilot, Marku Alen), and Toivonen crashed a Group B Lancha Delta S4. I understand that this is happening because the Lancia Delta S4 mod has not yet been made for Beam NG, but it would be so interesting to try a real car of group "B" with Beam NG physics, that would be a real test of driving skills!
his crash is actually the one that declared the end of group B. because the cars were too dangerous, even tho this is what makes them so legendary (both cars and pilots)
@@jojox3770 It wasn't the cars that were dangerous, it was Henri utterly stupid. Driving in sickness with such a dose of medication is like driving on drugs. Worse than drinking. Maximum stupidity.
To clarify, the car shown in the gameplay is a Group A Lancia Delta Integrale, not the Group B Lancia Delta S4 Henri drove. Edit: And only now I scroll down to see that this has already been pointed out.
Toivonen also had blackout from breaking his neck few years earlier, but didn't tell this to Lancia because he thought he might lose his job. Malcolm Wilson confirmed this.
There should've been a guard rail at that tight nasty extremely dangerous curve which was built later on after the fatal crash. Group B was the pinnacle of Rallying that ended mostly with stupid human errors like the irresponsible spectators and the lack of security in cars and on the roads. The era of best cars and skilled drivers.
I heard that there was an issue in the Delta S4 with composites used on the floor of the car getting sticky when hot and causing the throttle pedal to stick down. There's suspicion that's what caused the crash.
Exactly. I'm telling the same for everyone who misunderstood the whole situation. His brother Harry Toivonen told about this many years later, which has been proven by investigation team. BUT even with these kevlar bodywork elements damaged by hot temp.. the WHOLE tragedy could been avoided WITH metal plates underneath the body. But these metal plates has been removed for weight saving policy by team management. So whole resposibility for Henri (who was pure genius and most astonishing pilot) and Cresto deaths leads to Cesare Fiorio and Lancia team management. This blindfolded greed changed whole motorsport forever and killed incredible miracle.
@@sometimesidreamaboutcheeseThe one who misunderstood the situation are you: sorry but your comment is full of lies and fake news. The metal panels underneath would have been useless 'cos of the extremely high temperature of fire and same panels were assembled on NONE of cars ( with no exception, ALL CARS ) competing in B group. That's why these kind of race models were on fire once they capotted, the fuel tank was assembled just aside very close to turbo engine, straight under drivers seats, and all this on ALL CARS no matter which manufacturer. That said, any investigation by french authorities, FIA tech members and Lancia rally team could not determine what caused the incident. There are only rumors & suspicions , even Henri's fin fellows admitted the most probable cause could it be a driver's error or a co-driver's one ( missed note), but nothing has ever been proved and stated. What is 100% sure is that breaks had been maintained and tested before SS start, Henri confirmed it was ev'rything ok with them and he had no complaints about, so both Lancia rally team and eng. Fiorio can't be said responsible for the mortal incident in any way. True facts
@@carlobrotto7132 incredible nonsense from the start. How you could imagine Group B machines without underbody protection at some gravel stages with a sea of stones, for example. Nuff said. All tech docs can be seen nowadays with no problems.
Ok this is a simulation of the crash. The car in the video is not the Lancia Delta S4 Group B on which H. Toivonen and S. Cresto lost their lives; Toivonen was the fastest driver on that Lancia and the one able to push it to its very limit; nobody really knows whether the crash was caused by a driving mistake or by a car failure. No videogame or simulator (don't really like them) could ever reproduce the feeling of driving that beast to the limit. R.i.p. Henri and Sergio never forgotten
Jeez, so even if someone got there fast it still wouldn't have saved them. Holy fuck that's horrible. I hope Henri and Sergio is resting in peace somewhere out there.
After many years some mechanics have spoken. Henri complained that more than once, the car remained accelerated, because the accelerator end stop tip remained stuck in the Kevlar footplate. The S4 was found with the throttle open...
@@proffessasvids NO. Given that knowing the real data I think that was a myth like the Estoril, "up to 1000 in testing" may sound like that the engine was tested also for that kind of figures, but even thinking it was for real it was a "stress test" in which they want to break the engine deliberately. So it wasn't something usable at all.
Thank you for doing my suggestions! I think google images showing wrecked car (or rather should said burned driver cage) says everything about this crash. Worst wreck in WRC history.
Kevlar is fire repelling. It doesn't burn particularly fast or hot. That car wasn't made of Kevlar. It was made of something close to industrial or military plastic explosive. Kevlar doesn't burn with out additional fuel. Both of the bodies and the entire car were completely cremated. The gas tank, even if holding avgas, did not have the kind of energy quotient in it, to burn all that to ash. Toivonen was killed by the Lancia team leader and his illegal fucking practices. And buried by incompetent and corrupt local police taking kickbacks not investigating this crash properly.
Could you do tom pryce And As a precaution The Video is Very Very Graphic but if you can do it that would be cool. Also on the other Hand have you ever thought of making a discord server?
@@Ackotoctoc Right I remember that was the way Group B cars got banned. But if you’re trying to say that this crash was the final nail in the coffin, then that’s good to know. 👍
@@AloneRacecar Multiple drivers retired on this leg, including a fellow lancia driver(Ericsson I believe); who was told by Lancia that they were not the one who has the choice to retire. Had this not have happened the continued death and injury of spectators, usually in South America, would have discontinued group B.
@@Ackotoctoc It was said by the FIA (then called FISA) that that was the reason, but it's reasonably safe to say that it got banned for political reasons, as the FISA didn't cared much about safety anyway: they would do nothing to control the stupid spectators, nor the safety of the cars; they just cared about the bad image they were starting to have. In fact, years after Group B got banned, Group A killed more drivers than Group B has ever had, as the cars kept being shit even though they were safer and less powerful.
i feel bad because not many mentions his co-driver Sergio Cresto who was good friend with henri toivonen. of course he died in this crash too. they were leading the rally by 4 minutes at the point! even he had fewer, those stages were long.. also the drivers didnt get much to sleep back then unlike nowadays, they drove rally in daytime and night time, they only slept when they got time to... like 2 hours or so... it is huge impact to reaction times and senses. not to mention the cars were too fast with poor brakes and very poor safety equipment. there is rumor that lancia had some times put rollcage made of cardboard to reduce weight of the car... henri drove because he had to, otherwise he would get kicked from his job :(
please stop spread that nonsence from TopGear about fake rollcage, it is an Clarkson's hype-shit. The main reason of tragedy is dismounted metal plates underneath the body by Lancia team management. And issues with throttle pedal.
Hello. A really good video! It can see the fail, when on the last corner, Toivonen close too much the line route and he left the narrow road, rushing into the void on the fatal crash. Rest In peace.😮😢 Bye.
It didnt crash on the rock inside the curve and it didnt fly like that... Henri just lifted the throttle the car oversteered and hit the rock fence outside the curve and then it dropped in the ditch upside down...it got stuck between the ground and a tree and caught fire due to fuel tank leakage caused by the crash... Rumors said that Henri and Sergio fell unconsious because of toluene spilled on them and burned to death...Toluene was a widely used fuel additive back then that slowed down the 3rd stroke of the engines and its elements cause disorientation and dizzyness once they come in contact with the skin...
I was going to say that. They made it a 3rd of the way round the bend and slid off the edge in a roll. They stopped upside down into the base of a tree about 10m down from the road level and only a few meters out. I suspect they were killed instantly as the leading roof edge of the remaining space frame was squashed to a flat in the video of the wreckage. Fuel tanks were under the seats so they burst and ignited on impact. I work with toluene for thinning contact adhesives. It takes a hell of a lot of breathing it to feel drowsy so i doubt that had an effect. The video of the crash from the opposite side of the valley shows a flash of the car rounding the bend then down into the green of the trees... instantly exploding the moment it struck. Bless them both xx
Although not the correct car...the simulation of the crash makes sense... Just im not sure if the car pendulum towards the ravine or just simply outbraking that corner straight into the ravine
it was kind of a 2gear corner, tightens, so no matter what you drive, you dont get a pendulum on that slow place, especially when it tightens - its most likely you will get understeer, which was confirmed by small skid marks showing a radius that reveals, he just ran out of 2 meters of road to make the corner.
There is a French tv report from Tour de Corse. You can see a lot of drivers commenting Henri’s crash, filmed just after tragedy. But it’s without any subtitles…….
Thats a Group A Delta Integrale you have there in game, not the S4 B group car which was basically plastic shell on a rubbish skeleton made of straws as a rollcage on a rocket engine.
The car body panels were also made of kevlar, lightweight but could ignite very easily. So when something like this happens it can easily leave you screwed. Not to mention the lancia actually had fuel tanks under the racing seats
I got one for you. Cliff Burton. The original bass player for Metallica. They were on tour in Sweden for their album Master of Puppets. Their tour bus driver hit a patch of black ice, lost control and then started to tip. Cliff was asleep on the top bunk and was thrown through the window before the bus completely tipped over and landed on top of him, crushing him immediately.
If you find photos of the car's remains, you will see that the frame was folded by 20 to 30 degrees with broken tubes visible at floor level just behind Cresto's place. This indicates that the contemporary reports that the tank was puntured by crushed and broken chassis were accurate. Trees certainly contributed to the sudden jam/stop that prevented the car from dissipating energy by tumbling down the cliff.
THIS IS WHY GROUP B RALLY CARS ARE BANNED FOREVER R.I.P. GROUP B 4WD RALLY CARS MG METRO 6R4 LANCIA DELTA S4 PEUGEOT 205 TURBO 16 EVOLUTION II FORD RS200 EVOLUTION AUDI SPORT QUATTRO S1
Your reenactment video has given me a chance to rekindle my interest in the Henri Toivonen accident. After doing some research, I came to a testimony Harri Toivonen told Finnish National Broadcasting in 2013. The gist of Harri's testimony is the following two points. 1. The cause of the accident was not Henri's piloting error, but a design error in which the thin floor panel broke and the accelerator pedal could not be returned. 2.Henri was burned to death outside the car instead of being trapped inside. By comparing your video reenactment with the video of the actual accident, I have determined that of Harri's two testimonies, 1 is most likely true and 2 is likely not. Like Ayrton Senna's accident, Henri's accident is widely believed in Japan as a "myth" of "a tragedy caused by an insane racing car that surpasses the limits of human ability." But if 1 is true, the myth may be turned upside down. In the Japanese news article, the evaluation of Delta S4 by Miki Biasion is written, so I will write the Japanese sentence. 「(デルタS4は)エンジニアリング的に間違ったコンセプトだったと思う。競技での性能のみを追求し、安全面についてはまったく配慮していなかった」 「(しかしデルタS4は)強烈に魅惑的だったよ。僕に最も感動を与えてくれたラリーカーは、間違いなくS4だった。狂った馬を押さえつけるような感覚なんだ。ドライバーにとって、それを支配する喜びはどんな物にも代えられなかった」 I don't know if Biasion's remarks are mentioned in overseas articles. However, I feel that Biasion's words hide the essence of the "darkness of motor sports" that cannot be explained only by the madness of race management, teams, spectators and design engineers.
I was about to make a similar comment and was glad to find somebody else had thought of the same testimony. However, I have read a later testimony Harri gave in 2016, which was released in a Finnish sports magazine, which also included Toivonen's teamate Markku Alén's testimony about the crash. According to Harri Toivonen, the cause of the crash was that fatal technical error that the S4 had, meaning that the Gas pedal got stuck. This technical fault had happened before, for example in Sweden where the Cluch pedal got stuck in tests and, in the testing after the rally of Corsica... the gas pedal got stuck again, the car was driven by Giorgio Pianta, and he almost had a similar crash. After this Lancia fitted a plate of titanium to the floorboard, under the clutch and gas pedals to not cause the pedals being stuck again. Alen was one of the first drivers to arrive at the scene of the crash having started the special stage after Henri. Alen said that there were tracks, leading to the crash site, but not from braking, according to him they looked like if he had tried to slide the car away from the cliffside. Harri said that in Corsica, you brake as late as possible, this explains the marks found that were not found to be braking marks by the official report. Alén along with several other drivers have talked about how bad the tires and brakes from that era were, so they could've definitely not slow down a 650+ hp AWD monster. Harri said t If this was true, Henri was trying to flick the car away from the cliff but had no chance. One other thing, a somewhat more interesting thing Harri said was that Henri's body was found on the co-driver's side, while Cresto was still seated. Harri told that he had gotten this information from some first responders who arrived on the scene, and according to them, this could've been an indication that the car did not blow up straight away. With Henri having just enough time to try and go help Sergio out of the car, when the car blew up. Of course this is all what they have told 30 years later, but I'd like to believe that Henri Toivonen died as a hero.
That's the delta hf integrale, it wasn't from group B, it's from group A. Toivonen never drive that car cause the group A was a conseguence of the abolition of group B because of a series of death crashes (in particular the one where Toivonen lost his life). Toivonen drove the Delta S4, very similar to the HF integrale, but way more powerful.
@@AmbientMike on tarmac 650 (with overboost), constant max torque, 4WD, 900 kg, semislicks, and short gear ratio (max 200 kmh) you get F1 level acceleration in those tight turns
@@AmbientMike One of the Cironi interviews of Lombardi, S4 chief designer. The 650 hp power ceiling was introduced specifically for last Corsica rally They also ran the S4 at 1014 hp in testing with turbo at 5 bar. That engine had bits of titanium and space tech ceramics coatings to reduce friction and help heat dissipation, was as or more advanced than F1 but with lower RPM to make it withstand way longer races.
@@stefdem1533 why do your number keep jumping up? 600-650-1000... I'm sorry but I just don't see how that's possible even F1 engine could only last over 1200 in the same hear for about 2 laps or 5min. I'll give it a listen but I don't think you're close to correct. Around 500 is what they were doing DURING the rally.
Toivonen's death cam a year too the day (within a couple of hours) after another Lancia factory driver (Enrico Bettaga) had a horrifying crash in which his 037 collided head on with a tree at 120 mph which led to the tree penetrating through the safety cell (cockpit) and driving the steering column through his cheat as the tree itself nearly took his head off.
@@CRASHSimulation LOL I was going to delete my comment after I found it yesterday because I didn't know you already did a one on senna. Your videos are incredible mate! They go into such good detail of what happened during the events that lead up to the crash
@@michaelmak866 Well made? The information is just paraphrased knowledge that has existed since the accident. The roads look nothing like Corsica and to top it off, the car is the 1992 Group A car; not the car Henri and Sergio drove.
With no disrespect the simulation is rubbish. Wrong car for starters & it didn’t plunge down several tree-lines as portrayed here. The approach to the corner is portrayed all wrong as well 😢 If anyone has any doubts then seek out some genuine aftermath footage/pics. Not at all as shown here
Nella camera car della tv giapponese, si vede che la macchina va dritta per dritta sul ciglio della strada e l'acceleratore é in rilascio in quella curva. Aveva un grande rollio l'ammortizzatore sotto pressione é esploso lasciando sull'asfalto una striscia bianca per terra e la sospensione si é spezzato a metà.
This is the first animation i see actually very similar apart from the James dean one everything is almost perfect except for the car to won't rant cause o bet there's no group b car in the mod
Das war alleine die Schuld von Lancia, daß es überhaupt zu diesem Unfall kommen konnte. Kompletter Realitätsverlust des Teamchefs und zu allererst der Rennverantwortlichen des Teams.
The curve is tighter than it looks. Coupled with drivers getting tunnel vision due to the acceleration of Group B cars and the very light skid marks, Henri probably didn't realize how much it tightened and tried to brake but ran out of space. He would've been world champion that year.
And also having the flu
@@amog_melon He was over the flu but still recovering from it's effect but it most certainly did not help him.
"He would've been world champion that year"
well, thats a bit optimistic.
He only had finished the monte carlo rally that year, which he won.
The other 3 rallies he didnt finished or participated
then he died.
By the time he died he was already behind Kankkunen (who was the champion that year) and Alen Markku and tied with another 2 drivers in the 3rd place.
@@MarioJBGugisch completed Monte Carlo, Retired in Sweden, Retired in Portugal and still finished 7th in points that season.
@@Flores1a11 which doesnt mean a thing. just a quick check, Björn Waldegård competed in less events than Toivonen that year, and finished in 4th with more than twice the points Toivonen had, same with Lars-Erik Torph..
There are others who competed less and are ahead of Toivonen
Im not totally aware, but a quick check in ewrc, says Toivonen 'finished' 13th that year, not 7th.. And 90% of the guys to who he finished above had competed in only a single event.
Henri had also confided in a couple of close friends that he'd been suffering from micro-blackouts in preceding months which he had deliberately kept to himself for fear of him losing his medical and henceforth his position at Lancia. At the time of the crash, he was over 2 minutes ahead of second-placed Peugeot driver Bruno Saby, so could have easily slowed while keeping his comfortable lead.
I presume that the blackouts were caused his prior injury where 3 vertibre were broken.
That is inconvenient to the narrative that the evil cars did it
This video uses a Group A Lancia Delta Integrale HF 16v (similar to the one on the car of another great finnish pilot, Marku Alen), and Toivonen crashed a Group B Lancha Delta S4. I understand that this is happening because the Lancia Delta S4 mod has not yet been made for Beam NG, but it would be so interesting to try a real car of group "B" with Beam NG physics, that would be a real test of driving skills!
*HF
Drivetrain Wise, with some mods you can transform the new MR covet into a twincharged AWD beast
True
I have a group b rs200, and it’s so fun!
I think there's a group B bolide, but it's mod engine.
Those guys group b were god tier racers
Never heard of Henri until now, but now I know of yet another rallying tragedy. Thanks for the recreation.
Group b is full of sadness and epicness
his crash is actually the one that declared the end of group B. because the cars were too dangerous, even tho this is what makes them so legendary (both cars and pilots)
@@jojox3770 It wasn't the cars that were dangerous, it was Henri utterly stupid.
Driving in sickness with such a dose of medication is like driving on drugs. Worse than drinking.
Maximum stupidity.
@@jojox3770 That and the crash two races before then three spectators died when a driver saddly hit them whit his car.
Henri is one of the greatest talented driver of all time in motorsport, same league of Senna, Stoner. In terms of pure speed was untouchable.
To clarify, the car shown in the gameplay is a Group A Lancia Delta Integrale, not the Group B Lancia Delta S4 Henri drove.
Edit: And only now I scroll down to see that this has already been pointed out.
Still considered the best pilot of all time . RIP Henkka , my rally hero .
Toivonen also had blackout from breaking his neck few years earlier, but didn't tell this to Lancia because he thought he might lose his job. Malcolm Wilson confirmed this.
There should've been a guard rail at that tight nasty extremely dangerous curve which was built later on after the fatal crash. Group B was the pinnacle of Rallying that ended mostly with stupid human errors like the irresponsible spectators and the lack of security in cars and on the roads. The era of best cars and skilled drivers.
I heard that there was an issue in the Delta S4 with composites used on the floor of the car getting sticky when hot and causing the throttle pedal to stick down. There's suspicion that's what caused the crash.
exactly.
Exactly. I'm telling the same for everyone who misunderstood the whole situation. His brother Harry Toivonen told about this many years later, which has been proven by investigation team.
BUT even with these kevlar bodywork elements damaged by hot temp.. the WHOLE tragedy could been avoided WITH metal plates underneath the body. But these metal plates has been removed for weight saving policy by team management. So whole resposibility for Henri (who was pure genius and most astonishing pilot) and Cresto deaths leads to Cesare Fiorio and Lancia team management. This blindfolded greed changed whole motorsport forever and killed incredible miracle.
@@sometimesidreamaboutcheesestupid comment full of shamefull liars and
@@sometimesidreamaboutcheeseThe one who misunderstood the situation are you: sorry but your comment is full of lies and fake news. The metal panels underneath would have been useless 'cos of the extremely high temperature of fire and same panels were assembled on NONE of cars ( with no exception, ALL CARS ) competing in B group. That's why these kind of race models were on fire once they capotted, the fuel tank was assembled just aside very close to turbo engine, straight under drivers seats, and all this on ALL CARS no matter which manufacturer. That said, any investigation by french authorities, FIA tech members and Lancia rally team could not determine what caused the incident. There are only rumors & suspicions , even Henri's fin fellows admitted the most probable cause could it be a driver's error or a co-driver's one ( missed note), but nothing has ever been proved and stated. What is 100% sure is that breaks had been maintained and tested before SS start, Henri confirmed it was ev'rything ok with them and he had no complaints about, so both Lancia rally team and eng. Fiorio can't be said responsible for the mortal incident in any way. True facts
@@carlobrotto7132 incredible nonsense from the start. How you could imagine Group B machines without underbody protection at some gravel stages with a sea of stones, for example. Nuff said. All tech docs can be seen nowadays with no problems.
Ok this is a simulation of the crash. The car in the video is not the Lancia Delta S4 Group B on which H. Toivonen and S. Cresto lost their lives; Toivonen was the fastest driver on that Lancia and the one able to push it to its very limit; nobody really knows whether the crash was caused by a driving mistake or by a car failure. No videogame or simulator (don't really like them) could ever reproduce the feeling of driving that beast to the limit. R.i.p. Henri and Sergio never forgotten
well said, agreed
Jeez, so even if someone got there fast it still wouldn't have saved them. Holy fuck that's horrible. I hope Henri and Sergio is resting in peace somewhere out there.
Just thinking about driving Delta S4 in complex stages like the ones in Tour de Corse makes me feel scared. RIP Henri and Sergio.
Fantastic video!
I lived at the house in front of the crash, for sure this corner is risky, I can make you a full special video when you want !
What's the location on Google maps?
great simulation but at 1:57 the car should've gone straight because there were no skid marks on the track at the time of the incident
After many years some mechanics have spoken. Henri complained that more than once, the car remained accelerated, because the accelerator end stop tip remained stuck in the Kevlar footplate. The S4 was found with the throttle open...
how is that possible to find the pedal open? the whole car was burned so bad the only thing left was the roll cage/chassis
This incident is what caused FIA to ban Group B altogether. And I think that's a good thing. 600 bhp in a 900 kg car is just way too much.
no 600 in the S4, 520 at the last rally of the year, about 450/480 in normal race trim.
@@toivonencresto 🤓
@@toivonencresto up to 1000 in testing. 2.0 charger and turbo. Absolute madness xx
@@proffessasvids NO. Given that knowing the real data I think that was a myth like the Estoril, "up to 1000 in testing" may sound like that the engine was tested also for that kind of figures, but even thinking it was for real it was a "stress test" in which they want to break the engine deliberately. So it wasn't something usable at all.
@@proffessasvids 1.6
Thank you for doing my suggestions!
I think google images showing wrecked car (or rather should said burned driver cage) says everything about this crash.
Worst wreck in WRC history.
Michael Wyder's crash in the 86 ADAC Rally Hessen was horrible to watch. Broadsided a tree at like 120mph. His co-driver was killed instantly.
Pretty sure he was ill and tried to call in sick but Lancia wouldnt let him. At least... thats what Henris wife said
Kevlar is fire repelling. It doesn't burn particularly fast or hot. That car wasn't made of Kevlar. It was made of something close to industrial or military plastic explosive. Kevlar doesn't burn with out additional fuel. Both of the bodies and the entire car were completely cremated. The gas tank, even if holding avgas, did not have the kind of energy quotient in it, to burn all that to ash.
Toivonen was killed by the Lancia team leader and his illegal fucking practices. And buried by incompetent and corrupt local police taking kickbacks not investigating this crash properly.
Cesare Fiorio team leader of Lancia and eventually ferrari
100% artificial death was dealt to Toivonen indeed.
It is kevlar reinforced plastic resin -KRP - what some bullet proof. are made of. Kevlar is not flammable, but resin will burn.
Could you do tom pryce And As a precaution The Video is Very Very Graphic but if you can do it that would be cool.
Also on the other Hand have you ever thought of making a discord server?
So if I got my history right, was this the very crash that pretty much killed the Group B era of rally cars?
Correct, the group B cars were banned from being too dangerous and powerful to drive
@@Ackotoctoc Right I remember that was the way Group B cars got banned. But if you’re trying to say that this crash was the final nail in the coffin, then that’s good to know. 👍
@@AloneRacecar Multiple drivers retired on this leg, including a fellow lancia driver(Ericsson I believe); who was told by Lancia that they were not the one who has the choice to retire. Had this not have happened the continued death and injury of spectators, usually in South America, would have discontinued group B.
Group B was set to be done by 1987 anyway, but it was supposed to be replaced with Group S.
Basically, Group S is what ended up being banned.
@@Ackotoctoc It was said by the FIA (then called FISA) that that was the reason, but it's reasonably safe to say that it got banned for political reasons, as the FISA didn't cared much about safety anyway: they would do nothing to control the stupid spectators, nor the safety of the cars; they just cared about the bad image they were starting to have. In fact, years after Group B got banned, Group A killed more drivers than Group B has ever had, as the cars kept being shit even though they were safer and less powerful.
Ei pidä PAIKKAANSA! Henri Toivonen löytyi auton ulkopuoleta, oli kuollut siinä liekkeihin. Oli co-driveriä repinyt ulos autosta.
i feel bad because not many mentions his co-driver Sergio Cresto who was good friend with henri toivonen. of course he died in this crash too.
they were leading the rally by 4 minutes at the point! even he had fewer, those stages were long.. also the drivers didnt get much to sleep back then unlike nowadays, they drove rally in daytime and night time, they only slept when they got time to... like 2 hours or so... it is huge impact to reaction times and senses. not to mention the cars were too fast with poor brakes and very poor safety equipment. there is rumor that lancia had some times put rollcage made of cardboard to reduce weight of the car... henri drove because he had to, otherwise he would get kicked from his job :(
please stop spread that nonsence from TopGear about fake rollcage, it is an Clarkson's hype-shit.
The main reason of tragedy is dismounted metal plates underneath the body by Lancia team management. And issues with throttle pedal.
One of the fastest driver ever...
Hello. A really good video! It can see the fail, when on the last corner, Toivonen close too much the line route and he left the narrow road, rushing into the void on the fatal crash. Rest In peace.😮😢
Bye.
It didnt crash on the rock inside the curve and it didnt fly like that...
Henri just lifted the throttle the car oversteered and hit the rock fence outside the curve and then it dropped in the ditch upside down...it got stuck between the ground and a tree and caught fire due to fuel tank leakage caused by the crash...
Rumors said that Henri and Sergio fell unconsious because of toluene spilled on them and burned to death...Toluene was a widely used fuel additive back then that slowed down the 3rd stroke of the engines and its elements cause disorientation and dizzyness once they come in contact with the skin...
I was going to say that. They made it a 3rd of the way round the bend and slid off the edge in a roll. They stopped upside down into the base of a tree about 10m down from the road level and only a few meters out. I suspect they were killed instantly as the leading roof edge of the remaining space frame was squashed to a flat in the video of the wreckage. Fuel tanks were under the seats so they burst and ignited on impact. I work with toluene for thinning contact adhesives. It takes a hell of a lot of breathing it to feel drowsy so i doubt that had an effect. The video of the crash from the opposite side of the valley shows a flash of the car rounding the bend then down into the green of the trees... instantly exploding the moment it struck. Bless them both xx
Excellent reenactment of the crash, & very informative narration! ^_^ This would be EXCELLENT material for a documentary! :D Well-done! *(applause)*
Is there no delta s4 mod available or why did you use the integrale
this channel is gonna go a long way, would like to say ive subscribe since 5.41k subs.
Love Lancia, the icon
Although not the correct car...the simulation of the crash makes sense...
Just im not sure if the car pendulum towards the ravine or just simply outbraking that corner straight into the ravine
it was kind of a 2gear corner, tightens, so no matter what you drive, you dont get a pendulum on that slow place, especially when it tightens - its most likely you will get understeer, which was confirmed by small skid marks showing a radius that reveals, he just ran out of 2 meters of road to make the corner.
There is a French tv report from Tour de Corse. You can see a lot of drivers commenting Henri’s crash, filmed just after tragedy. But it’s without any subtitles…….
Henri Toivonen is a legend
It’s 36 years since henri Toivonen and Sergio cresto both died in the crash
Rally on that course is insane
He had troubles controlling the car? Ever heard of letting off the gas and then slowly gassing into turns or maybe just slowing down a bit more too?
Fastest time Paul
Thats a Group A Delta Integrale you have there in game, not the S4 B group car which was basically plastic shell on a rubbish skeleton made of straws as a rollcage on a rocket engine.
Delta S4 mod is currently unavailable
This is Lancia Delta Integrale on this video from the rally group A just after abandoned group B
There's stories of some teams using cardboard tubing spray painted for the roll cage to save weight😲
The car body panels were made of kevlar, lightweight but could ignite very easily. So when something like this can easily leave you screwed
The car body panels were also made of kevlar, lightweight but could ignite very easily. So when something like this happens it can easily leave you screwed. Not to mention the lancia actually had fuel tanks under the racing seats
please stop spread that nonsence from TopGear about fake rollcage, it is an Clarkson's hype-shit.
I got one for you. Cliff Burton. The original bass player for Metallica. They were on tour in Sweden for their album Master of Puppets. Their tour bus driver hit a patch of black ice, lost control and then started to tip. Cliff was asleep on the top bunk and was thrown through the window before the bus completely tipped over and landed on top of him, crushing him immediately.
I would like to reproduce his accident, but there is no suitable bus for the game. And it's too hard to do. maybe I'll try it in the future.
I remember the time you had 500 subscribers
If you find photos of the car's remains, you will see that the frame was folded by 20 to 30 degrees with broken tubes visible at floor level just behind Cresto's place. This indicates that the contemporary reports that the tank was puntured by crushed and broken chassis were accurate. Trees certainly contributed to the sudden jam/stop that prevented the car from dissipating energy by tumbling down the cliff.
Can You Do BeamNG Drive Joe Ranft Car Accident
THIS IS WHY GROUP B RALLY CARS ARE BANNED FOREVER
R.I.P. GROUP B 4WD RALLY CARS
MG METRO 6R4
LANCIA DELTA S4
PEUGEOT 205 TURBO 16 EVOLUTION II
FORD RS200 EVOLUTION
AUDI SPORT QUATTRO S1
what map was used
I'm not able to install the Delta. Can you help, please?
Driven round Corsica(in a Panda!) and boy, those roads, are twisty, narrow and rutted. On average 25 mph/40 kmh. Corsican drive really beaten up cars.
Well he did mention the car was trying to kill him. Sadly they let him drive it to his death
Cheers From Colombia Great Job ✌🇨🇴 And RIP Henri
I'm not telling you to redo the video
but that's a Group A Lancia Delta Integrale
not the Group B Lancia Delta s4
He should have been sick and not being forced to drive. However he was amazingly talented - not an Ari Vatanen yet but he was learning to fly.
Your reenactment video has given me a chance to rekindle my interest in the Henri Toivonen accident. After doing some research, I came to a testimony Harri Toivonen told Finnish National Broadcasting in 2013.
The gist of Harri's testimony is the following two points.
1. The cause of the accident was not Henri's piloting error, but a design error in which the thin floor panel broke and the accelerator pedal could not be returned.
2.Henri was burned to death outside the car instead of being trapped inside.
By comparing your video reenactment with the video of the actual accident, I have determined that of Harri's two testimonies, 1 is most likely true and 2 is likely not.
Like Ayrton Senna's accident, Henri's accident is widely believed in Japan as a "myth" of "a tragedy caused by an insane racing car that surpasses the limits of human ability." But if 1 is true, the myth may be turned upside down.
In the Japanese news article, the evaluation of Delta S4 by Miki Biasion is written, so I will write the Japanese sentence.
「(デルタS4は)エンジニアリング的に間違ったコンセプトだったと思う。競技での性能のみを追求し、安全面についてはまったく配慮していなかった」
「(しかしデルタS4は)強烈に魅惑的だったよ。僕に最も感動を与えてくれたラリーカーは、間違いなくS4だった。狂った馬を押さえつけるような感覚なんだ。ドライバーにとって、それを支配する喜びはどんな物にも代えられなかった」
I don't know if Biasion's remarks are mentioned in overseas articles. However, I feel that Biasion's words hide the essence of the "darkness of motor sports" that cannot be explained only by the madness of race management, teams, spectators and design engineers.
I was about to make a similar comment and was glad to find somebody else had thought of the same testimony.
However, I have read a later testimony Harri gave in 2016, which was released in a Finnish sports magazine, which also included Toivonen's teamate Markku Alén's testimony about the crash.
According to Harri Toivonen, the cause of the crash was that fatal technical error that the S4 had, meaning that the Gas pedal got stuck. This technical fault had happened before, for example in Sweden where the Cluch pedal got stuck in tests and, in the testing after the rally of Corsica... the gas pedal got stuck again, the car was driven by Giorgio Pianta, and he almost had a similar crash. After this Lancia fitted a plate of titanium to the floorboard, under the clutch and gas pedals to not cause the pedals being stuck again.
Alen was one of the first drivers to arrive at the scene of the crash having started the special stage after Henri. Alen said that there were tracks, leading to the crash site, but not from braking, according to him they looked like if he had tried to slide the car away from the cliffside. Harri said that in Corsica, you brake as late as possible, this explains the marks found that were not found to be braking marks by the official report.
Alén along with several other drivers have talked about how bad the tires and brakes from that era were, so they could've definitely not slow down a 650+ hp AWD monster. Harri said t
If this was true, Henri was trying to flick the car away from the cliff but had no chance.
One other thing, a somewhat more interesting thing Harri said was that Henri's body was found on the co-driver's side, while Cresto was still seated.
Harri told that he had gotten this information from some first responders who arrived on the scene, and according to them, this could've been an indication that the car did not blow up straight away. With Henri having just enough time to try and go help Sergio out of the car, when the car blew up.
Of course this is all what they have told 30 years later, but I'd like to believe that Henri Toivonen died as a hero.
He's the Only One that Had the Right Idea since Elvis Presleys Death
We’re they ever able to recover there bodies?
Ese no es el Lancia S4 que manejaba Toivonen. Ese es un Lancia Integrale
Why are you using a lancia Delta Intergrale ?? He died in a group B lancia S4 !? He didn't fall that far down either !?!? 🙄
That's the delta hf integrale, it wasn't from group B, it's from group A. Toivonen never drive that car cause the group A was a conseguence of the abolition of group B because of a series of death crashes (in particular the one where Toivonen lost his life). Toivonen drove the Delta S4, very similar to the HF integrale, but way more powerful.
S4 and HF are absolutely different machines wich was created by absolutely different specs and methods. S4 is the ultimate beast.
turbo lag should be terrifying in this kind of curves
The S4 had no lag. It was supercharged precisely to avoid turbo lag.
Can you create a video of attilio bettega's accident at the 1985 tour de corse?
Thank you❤️
pity the car shown is an integrale not an s4
What happened to their bodies
600 hp turbo charged and super charged on tight rally stage. It too much.
Not quite 600
@@AmbientMike on tarmac 650 (with overboost), constant max torque, 4WD, 900 kg, semislicks, and short gear ratio (max 200 kmh) you get F1 level acceleration in those tight turns
@@stefdem1533 there was never a single group B car aside from Ex Rally RX and Hillclimb car with that power output what is your source?
@@AmbientMike
One of the Cironi interviews of Lombardi, S4 chief designer. The 650 hp power ceiling was introduced specifically for last Corsica rally They also ran the S4 at 1014 hp in testing with turbo at 5 bar. That engine had bits of titanium and space tech ceramics coatings to reduce friction and help heat dissipation, was as or more advanced than F1 but with lower RPM to make it withstand way longer races.
@@stefdem1533 why do your number keep jumping up? 600-650-1000... I'm sorry but I just don't see how that's possible even F1 engine could only last over 1200 in the same hear for about 2 laps or 5min.
I'll give it a listen but I don't think you're close to correct. Around 500 is what they were doing DURING the rally.
who is Anri Toivonen? :D
you shoud do Nejmar JR car crash
Why?
Toivonen's death cam a year too the day (within a couple of hours) after another Lancia factory driver (Enrico Bettaga) had a horrifying crash in which his 037 collided head on with a tree at 120 mph which led to the tree penetrating through the safety cell (cockpit) and driving the steering column through his cheat as the tree itself nearly took his head off.
Attilio Bettega, no Enrico Bettaga.
Mate,what a vid ,👍
What is the map name?
Do colin mcrae crash in tour de corse 2000 in ford focus wrc
you mean 2002 when he broke one of his fingers.
Henri Toivonen with a lancia delta hf?
Can you do Jules bianchi? He was crash in suzuka 2014
Why would they put a unprotected fuel tank under the driver seat!!!!!!!
It is a question for Lancia team boss, Cesare Fiorio………. why to save a few kilos of weight by removing the skidplate..?
Could you do Ayrton Senna's Fatal Crash at Imola that happened on 1st May 1994?
ua-cam.com/video/mYymz7sR4BA/v-deo.html
@@CRASHSimulation LOL I was going to delete my comment after I found it yesterday because I didn't know you already did a one on senna. Your videos are incredible mate!
They go into such good detail of what happened during the events that lead up to the crash
1:58 is the most need for speed carbon thing i have ever seen😂
This seems kind of poor taste…
at the same time kinda well made
@@michaelmak866 that doesn't excuse it.
Henri Toivonen is one of the biggest legends in Finland
@@michaelmak866 Well made? The information is just paraphrased knowledge that has existed since the accident. The roads look nothing like Corsica and to top it off, the car is the 1992 Group A car; not the car Henri and Sergio drove.
1. Cars not found for the game
2. Similar Terrain is hard to find in the game.
3. And it is very difficult to repeat exactly how it was
Ari Vatanen had a huge high speed crash in Argentina in the 80s
With no disrespect the simulation is rubbish. Wrong car for starters & it didn’t plunge down several tree-lines as portrayed here. The approach to the corner is portrayed all wrong as well 😢
If anyone has any doubts then seek out some genuine aftermath footage/pics. Not at all as shown here
The car went off backwards and came to a very sudden stop a short distance down the slope.
there are stories being leaded that their bodies were found away from the car.
U said an S4 why are you using a Delta Integrale Evo I
did not find Lancha Delta C4 for the game
The thing is that the fuel tank was located under the driver's seat
You should re-create the ott tanak crash
if you can find the hyundai lol
This isn't a Group B
its a delta evoluzione not S4
Nella camera car della tv giapponese, si vede che la macchina va dritta per dritta sul ciglio della strada e l'acceleratore é in rilascio in quella curva. Aveva un grande rollio l'ammortizzatore sotto pressione é esploso lasciando sull'asfalto una striscia bianca per terra e la sospensione si é spezzato a metà.
I heard the lancia have magnesium rims. And those exploded on crash
If RAC Rally ‘97 did crash simulation…
Could you do Markko Märtins crash in GB Wales rally 2005 where he crashed his 307 in a tree which killed his co driver. Hopefully you will see this
in the process
I thought Toivonen was found outside the car.
That’s not an S4 though. Just a regular integrale group A car.
This is the first animation i see actually very similar apart from the James dean one everything is almost perfect except for the car to won't rant cause o bet there's no group b car in the mod
wrong car but still good
Hard and Sadly recreation... But the Lancia was an S4 Delta... Non Delta Integrale..
Heard he was forced by his team boss to drive that day
Тоivonen crash on Lancia S4, but this Lancia Delta Integrale group A.
I cant find the car
can you do Adam Petty and Kenny Irwin Jr car crash
will try
Launcher S4, really ?
Das war alleine die Schuld von Lancia, daß es überhaupt zu diesem Unfall kommen konnte. Kompletter Realitätsverlust des Teamchefs und zu allererst der Rennverantwortlichen des Teams.
i like the reproduction of the crash but the car it’s different… i know is probably because the lancia s4 mod doesn’t exist
L auto era una S4 non una Delta integrale.