Shooting with no Light Meter. Sunny 16 and F8 Don't Be Late!
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- Опубліковано 23 тра 2023
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In this video I Shoot the Sunny 16 Rule and the F8 Don't be late Rule.
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www.rogerlowe.co.uk
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EQUIPMENT USED IN THIS VIDEO
CAMERA - Nikon FM3A
LENS - 28mm Nikon
FILM - APX 100 / Ilford Delta 100
DEVELOPER - Rodinal
PRODUCTION GEAR
Leica Q2 Mono, CANON 6D, GOPRO 7 BLACK, Gopro 10 Black, TASCAM DR10L MIC, SENHEISSER SHOTGUN MIC,
NEEWER LED PANELS, GVM COLOUR PANELS, Valoi 360 Film Holder System for scanes, Zeapon Micro 2 Motor Slider, Colbor 100X Light,
Editing - FCP, PHOTOSHOP, LIGHTROOM,
ABOUT MY VIDEOS
If my videos inspire, create ideas and help others in film photography and darkroom work then it's worth making them.
I always welcome comments that are useful towards the video subject that will help others understand the process within.
Keep shooting and thanks for watching.
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Rog, you are not just a great teacher of photography and presenter, but also a great entertainer. Great stuff and keep em coming!
Thanks Tad. Kind of you to say.
I shot for school publications all through high school and college (1961-1969) with no light meter, using Sunny 16, Tri-X and D76, with occasional screw-ups, but generally satisfactory results. I had the indoor exposures pretty much memorized. Your channel gives the feeling of sharing stories, including the embarrassing ones, with old friends. Always a pleasure.
I guess back then light meters were expensive or seen as a tool for the "professional portraiture photographer" and press guys would learn the light and happily shoot f8 all day. Indoor exposures are probably another learning curve
I was also a school year book photographer 1970-1972, shot with no light meter, TriX film and had awesome results using Sunny 16 although I didn't know that term back then. I use it now with digital to get in close to the right exposure and rock it in using the camera metering. I also use auto ISO along with manual FStop and SS. Best rule ever especially to help get someone to use manual mode.
That was the very best practical application of Sunny 16 I’ve seen!!!! 👏
Sunny 16 always worked for me. B/W-film is quite forgiving. Regarding F8, don't be late! In Germany they have a similar saying: "Sonne lacht, Blende 8".
Translated for anyone else "Sun smiles, aperture 8". ha ha, thanks.
excellent 'Teaching Video' -- Beginners will learn a lot !
This channel is such a joy.
Great video Rog, glad you kep it honest.
Great video I've been trying this rule but you've explained it perfectly.
Congrats on your great shots using the sunny 16 rule! Your explanation was really very clear, and I felt confident enough to try it out. Negs look promising! Thanks very much indeed!
I do a lot of street photography and sometimes landscapes and I always use the Sunny 16 rule, I just find it easy to remember and stick to, with film I always find you have a good latitude in case you're slightly out, but I also use it with my digital Leica too - Sunny 16 for the win!
Certainly a great tool for street photography when you can't always use all the tools! Especially good for meterless cameras! Thanks for the video!
Another great video!
My experience is that knowledge and experience regarding the Sunny Sixteen rule helps to plausibility check light meter readings. Especially in the present times, many old light meters are usable but must be crosschecked from time to time. May it be the increased battery current of modern cells, corrosion in the light meter, starving Selenium cells or lacking knowledge about the measuring angle of the light meter. All of these facts mean that the readings can differ by even far more than one or two stops from the optimum exposure.
The "Don't be late, use aperture eight" rule explains to me very much why so many "point and shoot" cameras of the pre- and postwar eras just used one or maximum two apertures and a fixed shutter speed. The speed related to the proposed film for that model and the apertures just took into account that an over exposure by one till three stops was no killing fact for the quality of an acceptable photo at those times.
Thanks so much for all the great videos!
Glad you like them!
Great teaching video, thanks so much Roger.
All the best.
Robby.
Cheers Robby
In the 80' and 90's I could not afford any lightmeter so Sunny 16 my our only support and it not only worked excellent but our brain was wired to it. So we learnt the basics well. Then came the digital era and the tech companies kind of fooled us to buy the latest and greatest to make super precision and super details, leadimg to technicalities and often forgetting the fun and artistic parts. Certainly all technical developments are appreciated. But.
Some 5 years ago I returned to film photography and I develop+scan my negatives with full satisfaction (meaning embracing the mistakes and enjoying the process and learning curves). Probably my biggest self-improvement in past decades was the switch to run my own film development.
I recently did a similar test month, combined with a comparision of Weltax 6x6 and anon AE-1 in manual mode, using HP5 plus.
So, your findings, thoughts and conclusion came not only handy but confirmed my own findings.
And your way of presentation made it truly enjoyable.
Thanks for your humble approach and support while you generously share real value.
Much appreciated.
Distinct sharp shadow sunny 16. Hazy soft shadow, sunny 16 plus one, vague shadow sunny 16 plus 2. No shadow, overcast sky sunny 16 + 21/2. Heavy overcast, full open up 3 stops. This works for average scene with equal distribution of light and dark tones. Great shots Rog.
Ha ha I'm staring thinking 21 / 2 (2 and a half) 😂
For my Norwegian conditions I tend to use “sunny 11” with good results. 😊 I even use it as a guide when working digital.
Hey Espen! Nice to hear from you. Hope alls well :)
Great video!
Thanks!
When you think of the millions of photos taken on the old Kodak Brownie cameras that captured the images of our youth (some of us) you realise just how much leeway there is when 8t comes to exposure. I'm a new subscriber and enjoying your no frills approach to photography.
Back then the average photographer wasn't looking for perfection. Just happy snaps. I imagine there was a cheat sheet instruction included with the Brownie. Imagine how exciting it was to actually take your own photograph back then!
i have literally spent the last week wandering around the local town with a Retina IIc, sunny 16 and XP2plus doing people and buildings, EV ranged from 17 to 14 in the shade according to the hand held meter but the S16 rule was supprisingly accurate based on guesstimates and 500th of a sec
Thank you so much for the video tutorial
Thanks Socrates, nice to hear from you again.
I’ve tried a reverse method that works well. Using iso 125 I set the aperture to f8 and leave it there. For sharp shadows set the shutter speed to 1/500. For soft shadows 1/250, and barely visible shadows 1/125. I also stand develop with Rodinal. It’s like a manual aperture priority approach.
Yes using the shutter also is an option. If you want to keep the DOF.
Roger ..thank you for going the extra mile on this .. importantly difference of light on a sunny day v hot hazy day.loved the 'bonce' rule .. sadly my hat has gotten bigger
Thanks Nick. Your head shrinking Nick?
I use sun16 with my Vito II and Olympus PEN S. Daily companions. I check the sunniness of my subject that could be in shade and not match the overall strength of the sun. I also start at the typical Sun16 settings and adjust shutter speed to help preserve depth of field. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Gonzo.
Wow, I’m seriously impressed with how well it works! I have a few meterless cameras and should try this myself. I have a Russian camera somewhere that shows the sunny 16 chooses within the viewfinder with a sliding needle coupled to the aperture control. I’ve never used it but will dig it out and load it up…
Hope it works Peter.
Great video 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks Ed
I learned photography with a Kodak Retina camera. It had no light meter so I had to learn the Sunny 16 rule. It also had a viewfinder, *not* a rangefinder, so I had to learn zone/guess focus. Even the first roll of film turned out acceptably well. Today I can use Sunny 16 with cameras whose light meters either are non-functional or those whose mercury batteries are no longer available, and I look like a magician to my grandkids! Things are even easier today with Ilford XP2+ and it's crazy latitude. The secret is to treat it as though its ISO is about 200. Great video, "Boss".
I shoot XP2 and develop it in BW Chems, not C41. I've had incredible results with it. I love my view cameras. Retinettes etc. They do make you learn Zone and Metering without a meter.
Hmmm… I'm intrigued. I know about the f16-rule, but I don't use it much. Instead, I'll often take a simple meter-reading off vegetation or grass, and use that as my mid-tone. This video seems to reveal that aperture can control contrast as much, if not more, than exposure. I'll have to try it one day.
I do the same on the street with my spot meter James but point it to anything middle grey such as the pavement. Works every time.
Wasn‘t prepared to get a photography lesson by Sean Connery today!
Good one
Cheers from Germany
Okay, that made me chuckle! Thanksh
Gonna try Sunny 16 more with my Rolleicord. Only done it on my FED-2 and the pictures come out alright
What a beautiful part of the country you live in. Also, it may be worth mentioning 'bracketing' (like you did with that little silver bird-shit covered hatchback) if you can afford to waste the film. I get my films developed at a lab so I have no control over it, but if you develop your own, corrections (compensations) can be made as you process your films at home. Great video as usual and the best version of explaining 'Sunny 16' I've seen. Thanks for posting. :)
Thanks Sputumube. It is a nice island when the sun shines! And yes bracketing if you really want that shot to come out. I'm happy to bracket if I am unsure of anything.
great video! my daughter is a falconer ! Must be haven falconry. ! they are really great! clearly got the birds weight wrong lol ! i love the sunny 16! i still even use with my non film cameras for street
Yes that's the place 😁
I use the sunny 16 rule quite a bit. If I forgot my meter or I want to confirm whether meter is giving reasonable results (even meters break). Also for street-like photography this is a good technique as one doesn't want to waste time with the metering. As your images show, BW film is quite forgiving. Love your videos as it is great seeing someone having fun taking photographs. Thanks!
I always check my cameras meters with my DSLR Cameras. I've never used the sunny 16 to see but I guess that would work in an approximate way :)
Thanks for the video.
Since my large format camera, my medium format cameras, and my pinhole cameras do not have built-in light meters, I often use the Sunny 16 to determine my exposures.
I've not tried it on Large Format. I guess the thought of wasting a sheet puts me off but hats off to those that nail it.
I use it when I don't feel like metering with the Bronica. TMax will take a ton of abuse so I typically overexpose f/8 or f/11 at 1/250 with 400 speed. I can burn down reasonably well and not worry about if I'm underexposing when it's a bit shady
nice beard ) and another great video)
Glad you like it!
Loving the lingo and jokes with ya presentations, being an expat it’s still good to hear back home!! Very easy to follow along with too, though my only question would be, how do you apply the sunny 16 rule if using a CPL filter??
I would guess work out the filters stop density and knock it off your exposure. I think most are about 1-2 stops.
I never shoot sunny 16. After many years of testing B&W film with a densitometer, in my opinion sunny 16 will generally guarantee under-exposure even in full sunlight. For me, correct exposure is closer to f/8 - f/11 with shutter speed set as you describe.
Your "correct exposure of f/8 - f/11'' is the sunny 16 rule!. Virtually every camera setting is based on that principle.
@@tomamyx3980 My understanding of the Sunny 16 rule is: 1) set shutter speed to 1/ISO, and 2) set aperture on f/16. For B&W film, I've always found that this setting will under-expose by 1 - 2 stops.
Great video! It's the best guide to the sunny 16 rule that I've seen. From what I understand, the phrase "F8 and be there" was advice given by Arthur Fellig aka 'Weegee', a crime photographer in New York in the 30's-60's. He was known for scooping the other photographers and using more creative angles and compositon for his photos.
Thanks Geo! Ad I didn't know that. So thanks.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss that's how he got the nickname Weegee( from the Ouji board) as he scooped the other reporters- really had more to do with him having his car radio tuned to the police radio channel and the fact he lived in his car.
Getting there before the others.
@@Resgerr There is a biorgraphy out called "Fhash!" It detailed how he had one of the earliest police radios in his car, and rented/bartered darkroom space from the newspapers to get them the photos first.
@@geophizz thanks I will get the book, I've just been listening to a podcast where the author Christopher Bonanos is talking about the book and tge research he did☺️
Ive never used sunny 16, but think ill give it ago now its been explained to me.
Just remember even though it's sunny it may not be as bright as you think. You can easily download a phone app to check it once
By coincidence tonight I just developed my first sunny 16 roll, taken at a coronation garden party with a meterless King Regula L (see what I did there - coronation...King camera). Developed the Kentmere 100 in Bellini Euro HC. Negs look good! Will defo do it again.
Nice one! Glad they came out well. :)
All weather f8 rule 😂. Cheers mate 👍
Cheers Peds.
Got a F1 recently and due to the built in meter being off due to a higher voltage battery I have been relying on both the techniques you used in this video. Sunny 16 and zone focusing. Been using zone focusing on a lot of film work recently. Once you get your head round it, it becomes second nature to fix your distances for your zone and look up at the sky for what aperture.
Snow and Sand on sunny day - f22
Clear sunny sky - f16
Any cloud - f8
Shade f4 or if like the chap in the van in your video f2.8 or lower.
Still a WIP but getting there.
Drop in a 675 hearing aid battery, it's technically .1v overrated but on the self test it lands the needle perfectly in the middle on my F1
@@burningmilk53 thanks for the info 👍📷
That's 1.4V right? That would work for 1.3v cameras? (Or give better reading than 1.5v?)
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss they list 1.45v on the package. I always check new ones against the self test in the F1 and haven't had any test over yet. Readings I get also match the metering app I use with my phone often enough for me to consider it pretty reliable.
They don't fit perfectly in the socket, but if you're careful loading it in it will connect up fine.
I had the batteries fail in my Pentax ME once. This is a camera that's permanently in Aperture Priority mode with an exposure compensation dial and no manual shutter speed control. Fortunately, Pentax went out of their way to give us battery-independent flash sync on this machine; 1/100. A bit of mental arithmetic was required because I had 400-speed colour film loaded, but I managed to get good results on the rest of the roll.
NIce. The OM20 I am stuffed if the batteries die. Like the Nikon FM you get a recovery shutter of 1/90th.
a roll of film is drying that I just shot with the advice from this video... It looks like it went really well!
Lovely shots!
I definitely use sunny 16 and have for a long time. A big help for me has been to settle on one or two films to use. Having a good understanding of what my camera, my lenses, my film choice, and my processing will get me is the the important thing for me. Learning sunny 16 has absolutely lead me to really looking at the light.
I do not always use sunny 16 since some of my cameras do have good meters and I also do have a good external meter. That meter I mainly use with my 4x5 camera.
I still have not found a meter app for my phone that I like very much. I have not looked at the options in a year or two, any suggestions?
The one thing I would say to folks new to this is that it does require practice.
Meter-less shooting is not really complicated and it can give good consistent results once you have some experience with it.
I did learn that wearing transitions type glasses was not good for me in that it caused me to evaluate the light wrong. I guess my brain sort of forgot that I was wearing sunglasses because the glasses changed with the light. With regular sunglasses it seems like my brain does not fool it self like that and I can account for the effect of them.
Thank you for this excursion and discussion about sunny 16, well done!
It does require practice. You can easily get fooled. I use a APP for android called AP Light Meter.
F 8 and be there was an old photojournalist saying used when they were being pestered about how they made a shot.
And after so much pestering even if it was f16 or they couldn't remember .... F8. lol
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss If you are intrested the guy I got that from worked for the old Memphis Press Scimitar for 30 years and that closed 30 years ago. Enjoy your channel!
i use richard koolish disk exposure disk, so, sort of use it
The sunny 16/hazy 8 method works well for street photography where you only have a second to grab the shot...f8 don't be late! I only use a meter for still life, portraits and other slow or non moving subjects. If I am in doubt I will take a shot first on my phone and see which settings it used and go from there....used to bring my 40D but it was too much to carry two cameras....and why when I got a phone with. lol
I used to take my DSLR with me too on landscapes before I had a handheld meter and before the apps were "Better". As you say a real pain to carry unnecessary. Good for seeing the scene and comparing after developing though.
Developing sense for light and exposure is a useful skill for a photographer. The inbuilt light meter on my Nikon FE2 sometimes fails me especially if it is a low key scene and the image gets overexposed. In those cases these rules of thumb are better.
I have a couple of cameras where the light meter is correct outside but indoors they are way off! OM20 is one. So I can't trust the meter either way anymore.
I always use lightmeter for accurracy but these rules of thumb are very useful as sanity check. If I'm out on a heavy overcast day, and lightmeter shows F16 when its supposed to be something like f8 or 5.6, I'll know its faulty. Needle gets stuck, battery gets low, a drop of sea water at a wrong place. These are 50-year old cameras. Even phone apps can screw up because of an update; happened to me once.
I'm always dubious with my phone app. Often it has helped me out but I never relied on it whole heartedly.
I use "sunny 16" mainly to check on my meter readings (plausibility test ;-)) - because I might've forgotten to set the ISO on the meter. And were I lived most of my life, in Berlin, it was rather "sunny 11 to 16" (half a stop less than 16), partly due to the less clear air over the big city, partly to compensate for the 1/3 stop difference in shutter speed. I used it for a roll of slide film once, and it worked quite well (Kodachrome 25, if I remember correctly, and this is much more critical than negative film). Before light meters were invented (or when they were still quite expensive), there were "exposure calculators" (I have one from Agfa) and extensive exposure tables available and in use. Quite impressive what can be achieved without electronics - but I go with a light meter most of the time (and mostly using an iPhone app).
The apps are pretty good for incident
Oh...I'm late, I'm late I must press button 8! Great video mate! I'm wondering about the shot of the chap in the caravan, you shot him at 2.8 was that at 1/125 sec? Everything looked like it was in focus. My film camera has three settings (f8, f11, and f16) and I was wondering, you mention about the mixed lighting and when too change the apertures accordingly. Do you use the apertures to change the depth of field coupled with the zone focusing? Cheers
The aperture is not coupled to the distance scale. I change the scale if I change the aperture for a differently lit scene. Or if I wanted to keep the same aperture I could change the shutter speed (as long as it does t go too slow, 1/30th with those cameras is probably the slowest I could go without camera shake)
"f8 and be there" is by Weegee (Arthur Fellig) when he was asked for the secret of his success as a news photographer. He kept a police radio by his bed and in his car and often arrived at the scene of a killing before the police. He used a Speed Graphic, if my memory serves me right. "f8" means don't faff around with complicated settings.
Iḿ using a Zenit 3M. Not the best camera, but no batteries. I'm using a lightmeter, Sometimes I make a guess what my lightmeter will say. Sometimes I am right, sometimes wrong. I think those rules apply only in the middle of the day. Not in the evening or morning. Am I wrong. Very informative video. Happy with it.
Early morning or late evening yes I wouldn't go to 16. F8 ore so. But just keep your eye on the shadows.
I use the Sunny 16 about 80% of the time, all my old cameras don't have meters ... easy enough if you pay attention ... plus I'm fuckin' sensitive!!! I am also a huge zone focusing fan ... I can turn all my cameras into a high-end point and shoot!!!
I'm often zoning Brine
For B&W film,overexpose 6 STOP can still be ok?
What shutter speeds do you use with sunny 16
My friend shot the sunny 16 rule all the time and his photographs were great but I never tried it.
Try it Rick. Handy to know
Even Ansel Adams' "Zone System" of exposure follows the principle of "Sunny 16". It is simply a systematic way of increasing or decreasing the amount of light that reaches the film. There are many variations of this principle. You have to learn to read the light correctly, and you do that by practicing your photography and training your eye!. Cartier-Bresson, for example, generally shot at 1/125 with 400 speed film, using a 50mm lens (no light meter), then adjusting the aperture accordingly. He was a master at reading the light correctly, but I'm I doubt he was masterful right from the beginning. I go on at least one photo walk per week with nothing but a nearly 70 year old light meter, trying to guess the readings, simply because as we age our eyes change, and we don't read the light as well as we once did, but this exercise helps (I like to think so anyway). Sorry to ramble... try using sunny 16, practice, experiment, for a period of time. I think you will learn to trust it.
why he didnt use 1/500 for 400 film?
1/1000s or 1/2000s for 1600 ISO while using sunny 16?
I have been trying with overexposing. So sunny 11 maybe ?
I'm curious: is there something equivalent to Sunny 16 but for indoor situation? And by "indoor" means any indoor situations: sometimes you have a strong window light, sometimes don't.
I guess if you have strong sunlight coming in from a window during the day covering half of your scene and you hit f16 you're going to get a contrasty scene! With the interior being half dark and the highlight area from the sun being okay. I'd probably go F8. Depending on the intensity of the light. But I wouldnt like to guess a scene like that
That beard suits you
Something to twiddle when reading comments LOL. Cheers.
Tasty mk1 escort
Wasn't it just!
Nikon f3 var bende çok temiz❤👍👍👍💯💯💯🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷
Nice!
"F8 and be there" is ascribed to a New York news photographer known as Weegee.
Cheers William!
always use sunny 16 rule when shooting with my Nikon F since i dont even have the option off a light meter on it
Forces you to learn the light I suppose
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss got some perfectly acceptable results that way too definatly not 100% hit rate though
Roger I would like to see you shoot some film and severity in the proper developer and proper time and do not do any dogging or burning to it just like if you sent it out to a lab for processing. Thanks Rick.
I must 'av missed the dogging vlog, 😮
I do use proper developers Rick LOL. Or do you mean shooting film and using recommended developer?
On my other channel. :)
I'm watching your film on sunny 16 and I'm wandering does sunny 16 work with filters on your lens.......
You would have to add the filter stop to the sunny16 rule. If you don't know you would have to check with a camera with a built-in lightmeter then write it on the filter case for future reference
Thanks Resgerr.
f/8 and your there is attributed to Weegee- who used a Speed Graflex camera. Weegee had 10 years experience of working in a darkroom when he first started out his career as a Photojournalist
being a large format shooter and rarely, if ever, shooting at f8, it is pretty unlikely that he was the originator of that saying.
@@thomaschipman some people say it was him - yet most of his photographs were taken a night with flash
I find metering with my phone slow, distracting, and generally annoying (normally end up needing both hands, which is a faff when you are also hokding a camera)
And usually just as you're on 10%
If you want to really test yourself shoot a roll of Chromes with sunny 16. 😇
Chromes are a nightmare at a car show especially when you're in the darkroom printing.... Unless you learn to ignore the highlight and be happy. I have ha ha. But I took the scrim out this time.