More Exhaustive Critique of Crunchyroll's Infamous 'High Guardian Spice' (Ep 4 - 12)
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- Опубліковано 27 бер 2022
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the fucking "it's called high guardian spice 'because of their names' but it turns out they're all named after herbs, not spices" is hilarious to me
it fails before you even click play on the first episode
That's what happens when you have a writer's room full of nobody but white women.
@@osmosis453
That’s what happens when you have a writer’s room full of incompetent writers, their identities don’t matter if they’re this awful at writing lmao
Herbs are spices.
Herb is leaves, seeds, or flowers primarily used for flavouring food.
Spice is any plant substance primarily used for flavouring food.
@@TheRealBrit I mean, yes, you could see it that way, but nobody uses the word "spice" with that intention in mind
"We cant tell anyone that Olive tried to kill us, Otherwise, Olive will find out she tried to kill us"
which only works if the assassin doesn't know you are you and none of them hide this
"Assassins want to kill anyone who knows about the Rot, so obviously the best solution is to keep the number of people who know so small, that there is a benefit for the assassins to kill them."
Why is this a brain teaser 💀
Olives aren’t even herbs OR spices!
How was that explanation better than the whole show
I was actually frustrated by Snapdragon's trans arc. It doesn't actually come off that he's trans. For the whole show he basically goes "I don't like boy things, I like girl things" and everyone is immediately like "Then you're a girl." However, he doesn't actually express wanting to be a girl, he's just interested in femenine activities and clothing. Unfortunately he's given no room to be an efeminate guy, he is only told that he must be a girl if he likes stuff for girls, and the show is written in a way that seems to push that logic as correct.
I didnt catch that but my God can you imagine being painted into a particular corner of sexual identity. Honestly that would be a special kind of hell.
If the show was given a good writing team and the budget for a second season I’d love to see this expanded upon where snapdragon is fighting to explain that he just likes girl things but still feels like a boy. Everyone keeps insisting he’s supposed to be a girl bc of what he likes, but he doesn’t feel that way. It can then turn into an exploration of the difference between gender identity vs gendered activities and how just bc you like something that is inherently for one gender doesn’t mean you have to be that gender. This could also tie into rosemary bc she likes swords and fighting which are typically seen as masculine but she clearly wears a dress and is comfortable as a girl.
Which is accurate to how the matter is treated in real life.
I haven't watched the show but that's literally one of the things that frustrate me endlessly in real life with issues like these so that pisses me off majorly too
@@seg162 What are you even talking about?
Man…they had an episode where a sword is damaged…and a blacksmith…ON THE TEAM…with NOTHING to DO.
Huge missed opportunity, it could’ve not only made her actually useful for something, but also could’ve provided a nice character moment between the two if done right
@@KikiCatMeow Alternatively it'd have given Parsley's whole adventure some extra purpose if Rose tried to find her but she was just not there and ran into Carroway instead.
OMG YES
I'm surprised that's not how it went honestly
If they can repair weapons with magic, then blacksmithe are kinda redundant
"she´s crying because she doesn´t know what it means to be a guardian"
I´m pretty sure no one in the show nor the audience knows what a guardian is supposed to be
O
M
G
XD
So freaking true
in my head I created a theory that they would say that guardians are people who protect their cities from evil and each city has its handpicked guardians, who are the best in their cities and there are several other gyms, but Rosemary was just the closest one and there are better gyms, making it clear that they might have new characters on the show who can help Rosemary to be a guardian or something
Stupid me, putting expectations on a show and wanting him to give me answers to my questions isn't it :')
This makes me want to cry, what even are guardians???
@@JohnSmith-ox3gy I theorize they are imaginary, that this is all the MCs fever dream, would explain why nothing makes sense
I assumed guardians where similar to that of huntresses in rwby
there are two types of character creators:
"you are my child and nothing will ever hurt you or i will cry"
"you are my child and i will hurt you in every way imaginable for my own amusement"
As a writer, this is absolutely true.
Your PFP also made this comment funnier than it already was.
Artist’s/Writer’s first OC vs Stan Lee with Spider-Man
...I have a character who's a bit of both, honestly. I love him dearly and want him to be happy in the end, but dear lord is that not gonna stop me from putting him through hell on the way to that happiness.
As a writer I can confirm
@@Commander_Appo Oh trust me I put my first OC through hell. Because ... Uh .. Because I could
To the point of "nobody wanted this to be call 'High Guardian Herb'" you can easily just rename the characters.
Pepper, Ginger, Paprika, Cinnamon. BOOM, now they're all named after spices.
Suits their personality too!
Unfortunately the writers didn't want people calling their characters hot.
And I definitely didn't spend 5 minutes trying to work in a good joke with chili and vanilla in it.
But then you would lose the absolutely pointless reference to Scarborough Fair in their names!
you probably put more thought into this than the actual writers.
69 likes confirmed
XD
Also thanks for the Abridged renaming!
;)
This show seems to take the; "It's magic, I ain't gotta explain shit!" meme/trope not just too far, but to the next country. Over the ocean.
PAST THE ATMOSPHERE
XD
Into the next damn reality.
It's the "it's magic, I ain't gotta explain shit" meme, I ain't gotta explain shit
Oh that's easy to explain. See magic exists, therefore of course there will be people flying around and that means it'll be easy to fly over the ocean! what's that, why not show more people flying around? I dunno, it's tiring to fly too much, go figure it out on your own.
Nah cause over the ocean they actually know how to do it right
Easy chest pet joke: have it be freaking out, then a charecter offers a trade "I'll give you some treats if we can store stuff" and shakes a treat bag full of like little gummy luggage like shirts and pants or something
That's adorable and I love it
I like that
you could also have it love "eating" random junk and stuff, so it's always is a pain to find what your looking for.
@@supermysterious66 Luggages sustain on a strict diet of socks (only one of every pair) and nail clippings.
@@erejnion SO you saying that you have to feed it by putting 2 matching socks in it's "feeding bowl", but it will only eat 1, kinda of like my cat?
The one liners from this show sound like they were written by someone who’s never actually won an argument before
Gosh it makes sense! 💀
The kinds of comebacks you come up with as you're lying in bed at 2am thinking about a fight you had five years ago 💀💀💀
What would you expect from a show trying to pander to a crowd that relies on blockchains and crybullying?
you can win arguments?
If I have more fun arguing than you I won the argument by default.
That was a hell of a fall for a "dropped" hammer.
I think that would have smashed his foot into paste.
Imagine if while everyone's laughing at him, he's still just on the ground screaming, then everyone realizes that he's not just hurt, but in agony, and it gets super uncomfortable.
Bruh that scene would really turn "mature" if it happened. Imagine after realising he's in real agony that their classmates turned to Parsley with judgmental eyes, and all Parsley's good image would be tainted by that mistake, and she earned a bad reputation.
Now we get a real side plot of Parsley trying to get back her good image.
In that sense, Aster would not be thrown away like some temporary character whose role is just to exist in ep6. It would give him more characterization and roles in the following episodes with Parsley asking for his forgiveness.
And if the writers want to make him an annoying/hateable guy, make him order Parsley around (sinces he's injured), ask her to massage him or run errands for him. And most of the things he tells her to do almost put Parsley in danger, heck even go to the route of almost killing her. All those troubles in exchange for him clearing her name off the bad light. And then the enslavement happens for long until he was completely healed but of course he enjoyed ordering someone around, and while at it, earning his classmates' sympathy, so he still pretended to be injured.
And then they discovered he's already healed, so they got mad and then Parsley was clear of her offense, and then as a punishment for lying to his classmates and to Parsley, he was expelled.
Kinda cliché trope but more executable and it makes more sense and depth to the story. In those scenes, Parsley and even her other friends might have something they learn as a lesson then that's additional growth and exp points to them. #levelingup!
@@reiri5764 DAMN That’s actually cool as hell. I wonder sometimes how random people from the internet can come up with more compelling stories than a room of writers.
@@bookbutterfly6613 I've noticed in every video about HGS longer than 15 minutes, that not only the video creator(s), but also pretty much everyone in the comments can come up with better ways to handle just about every scene in the entire show; use up an entire episode to show Rose and Sage growing together and being friends so we get a little invested, have the trans teacher be outed either through conflict or as a way to demonstrate another aspect of the worldbuilding (like teaching Sage that there are things that can be done with new magic, like giving you the body you feel like yourself in), or completely rewriting certain conversations to not only make them more believable and less cringy, but also fit both the characters having said conversations and the present situations/atmospheres the characters are having them in.
I think it's because, unlike the showrunner by his own admission, everyone dunking on this show and coming up with scenes a million times better than what the heavily emphasised all-female writing staff could do are "writing out," either literally in comments/articles or verbally in videos like these, scenes, conversations, etc., without worrying about how it would look; the goal should have been for the writing team to write the story, then storyboard around it. Storyboarding first forces you to write scenes and the like around the visuals, and come up with the context of the visuals, and how the characters got into the scenes being visually depicted after the fact, when you should be writing the big points and some connecting stuff first at least before you think about drawing it in.
the bloodloss in his own shoe killed him and that's why he never came back
It would have been hilarious in an Itchy and Scratchy way if he was on the ground, shrieking in pain, spraying blood on the main characters while they stood around laughing.
I think the best definition of a Mary Sue is when the universe bends its rules to benefit the character. With the death of the dragon and everyone saying 'it's not your fault' in that big pity party feels like a Mary Sue moment. The teachers and mermaids are not acting like they should be. I think the 'edgy' guy asking to break the cats neck was a weak 'kick the puppy' moment to make him look evil.
I'm not so sure if that is a good definition of Mary Sue. I think it is fine if the universe bends for the character, so long as there is a reason to do so. Funnily enough, I think a good example of this is Mary Sioux from Youjo Senki.
Heaven itself bends reality to give her power - but considering how it is already screwing with Tanya, this makes sense. Tanya pissed off *God Himself* and so the fact that one of her enemies can effectively do no wrong and is a super powered monstrosity.
@@noahgray543 The god from YS is an ass who is doing things just to mess with Tanya. I think that is 100% within the rules of the universe.
My point is that the rules of the universe change to suit the character. The world and people don't react like they should.
Another way of saying it would be to say, things happen because the character needs them to happen, not because they make sense in universe.
-------------------------
The MC from "By the grace of god" is a mary sue. The anime with the slime washing service.
MANY OP anime characters are on the mary sue spectrum but that guy is the posterchild of mary sues.
He can do everything on the first try. He is better at everything than everyone else, even his teachers. He gets constant (sickening levels of) praise.
I would add that frequent (often out of place) praise/validation is another sign of a mary sue, but it only shows up in the worst examples.
I think they realize that they were at the end of season and they didn't explain ANYTHING for being able to write the big season's final.
We don't know what the roat is, we don't know how magic works, de don't know the real bad guy since Olive will obviously being redeem, we don't know any motivations of anyone...
So since they need a bigger bad guy for having big fight scenes and pushing Olive to change, they rush Mandrake's character.
We need to state he's 100% evil: lets make him wants to kill Olive's cat. We need to state he's smart: let's make him plan on top of the school. We need to make him cruel: let's make him trick Rosemary. All of this in one episode.
Mandrake is not a bad character, he just doesn't have enough space for growing.
@Moses Zero
As a fan of the manga... Yeah, that's fair. In it's defense, I'm pretty sure the whole thing's only supposed to be a dopamine injection for depressed japanese workers. It's like anti-depressants, but unhealthy. :D
The most modular definition of a "Mary Sue" is one where the character obviates conflict.
This doesn't have to make a story "bad", but that's what all of these attribute-based definitions boil down to after being stacked together.
Even then, they failed on the gun control talking point because of Rosemary bringing her sword everywhere being able to defend herself.
I feel like I'm going to hear stories about how this show was contradictory for the rest of my life
It comes up a lot in action based stories. You can't argue the virtue of being defenseless in a dangerous world.
I'd ask how authors miss this obvious point, but it's not a mystery when you look at how the induatry operates.
@@RedCornix that's a great way to put it!
Maybe they are just bri'ish and prefer a knife xD
Theres a gun control theme in a fantasy cartoon? Oh God, its like OK KO's "remote control" episode which was terrible commentary on gun violence in a super hero cartoon with villians and heroes with powers everywhere.
All memes aside, I'm genuinely grateful this show exists purely because this critique of it is so insightful and comprehensive. so uh great job
My thoughts exactly =)
I love how constructe Criticism becomes more and more popular, as blatantly-made-obvious by Madvocate covering The Flash, Jay Exci covering Doctor Who and Hbomberguy being Hbomberguy, who i can all just warmly recommend if you like to learn while being entertained and vice-versa.
Good point!
That's why I tend to believe that there is such thing as a "bad" work of fiction. One that is "bad" can serve the purpose of educating writers/producers on how to make a work that functions well E.G YIIK the Postmodern RPG.
His critiques should be written in academic textbooks rn
About the villain not wanting to kill, there actually is a way it could work:
The Guardians do kill, quite a lot in fact, as it makes it easier to do what they believe needs to be done, at the expense of those they believe deserve it. The cat lady, due to believing that killing is inherently wrong, regardless of circumstance, joins the bad guy exclusively to take down High Guardian Academy. When HGS discovers why she’s doing what she’s doing, they reason with her that they will be different. This gives the villain actual depth, as well as forcing our heroes to realize that the side they’re on isn’t inherently good, but that they need to fix it, and gives us a real-world allegory that isn’t unbelievably confused.
It doesn't even need to have that much going on. Some villains can just have lines they don't cross. It could be for practical reasons (they know that that'll just draw too much attention, that sort of thing), moral (they can be thieves or spies just not a killer since they don't want a person's life on the conscience) or some combination of the two.
"Did I just imply I want a season 2?"
Let's be honest, we all want more of this dumpster fire wrapped in sadness called High Guardian Spice for the endless amount of content it supplies everyone with.
If this was on Netflix they would definitely get a season 2 due to hate watching. If only 😞
High guardian spice is road kill and we are vultures babeyy
It _could_ be good. Although I'm not sure if a second season could get it there or if it just needs a full reboot
I would be happy for a season 2 so I can see if this can somehow get worse
It’s just so fun to hate I want more
I think what you heard as "Bonk" was actually "Balk" which means "to hesitate or be unwilling to accept an idea or undertaking"
But bonk is funnier
Thanks, the more ya know
She did bonk, several times in fact as he knew she would.
@@spudsbuchlaw it makes me want him toa pull a bat out and beat pics of the characters off of her
It feels weird used like that tho. I would only you it in the sense of 'balk at' smth
"Because it makes it feel like the writers are speaking, not the characters." An excellent point that encompasses so many of the fundamental writing issues I've come across as an editor. You get stories where characters all share the same opinions about a subject, where they all know the same things about everything, where they all share the same manner of speaking so that you couldn't possibly tell who's speaking without dialogue tags. Then, of course, there's the dreaded sequence where an idea is presented, and the world twists itself around to confirm how you the reader should feel about said idea. These sorts of issues are inherently troublesome for any reader that's conscious enough to notice them, as if you're thinking about the writer, you're not immersed in the story.
I love how constructe Criticism becomes more and more popular, as blatantly-made-obvious by Madvocate covering The Flash, Jay Exci covering Doctor Who and Hbomberguy being Hbomberguy,
who i can all just warmly recommend if you like to learn while being entertained and vice-versa.
@@slevinchannel7589 my man, I agree with your comment, but there’s no need to repost it as spam across several threads. It lessens your argument.
I'm always so curious what sort of stuff editors see.
omg thank you for making a comment abt that stuff. im trying to become a better writer and its honestly helpful to be called out on stuff more often.
@@3u-n3ma_r1-c0 I feel the same. I recently took on an editor for my own work, and I've been trying to get them to go harder on me.
"What if Amaryllis was going on-and-on, about Aster? All day?"
"I'd be HAPPY for her. (She usually just talks about murder...!)"
God. Every once and a while, you see it. You see the potential this show had to be great.
I wish it was better. I wish it could be a fun, fantasy adventure show where I could gawk at wonderfully endearing characters. But I can't, because it's hot garbage.
Wonderful critique as always, Saurus.
That makes it even more frustrating if someone with as little creative experience as us can see the potential why couldn't professionals see it
@@335chr If anything most of it is likely ripped from other franchises and frankensteined together.
@No, that's wrong! technically yes
Amaryllis is easily the best character
The more I see of it, the more I think if the main pair weren't there, it'd just be better. The rest isn't good, necessarily, but it's close enough to Season 1/2 RWBY (a show still figuring itself out and trying to find a tone) that I could probably forgive the writing. Or at least be more generous.
It's wierd that the unironically best character is written to be a bit of a jerk then she just comes off as the only fun girl in the core group.
I can't even feel bad for Thyme, if she had just stop being angsty and reclusive for one day and tell her mom or professors about the Rot sooner, the situation would have been easier to resolve
Yeah, I was wondering why she told Amaryllis not to say she'd give anything just to have parents who would spend more time with her? I guess it was supposed to be a projection of her own feelings towards her parents, but wow, that was way too pretentious to make anyone like her character
the thing with the hammer foot gag is that, if this was a cartoon world with rules commensurate with that world aka the hammer to the foot wouldn't actually do much since everyone has cartoon physics. however, then constantly chopping bugs in half with all kinds of gore coming out of them really undercuts any possible attempts they make at comedy through cartoon violence.
On the flip side, they also could have made this work by undermining the severity of serious injuries with ample access to healing magic. If the teacher had been healing the kid when he laughed it wouldn't have felt as wrong. They had just run through an obstacle course with swinging blades, so the idea that someone getting hurt was to be expected, and thus no cause for concern. This would be getting more into the humor of something like Rick and Morty's Whirly Dirly Conspiracy where the immortality makes fatal harm meaningless. Not the right tone for this show, but it would have worked better.
@@Air21Man So the Percy Jackson method.
@@Air21Man exactly! There are all kinds of ways you could have handled it. The main reason I brought that one up is because of everything ive seen from the show I keep getting these vibes that they cannot or will not pick a tone and that they don't know how to work with clashing times either. So, we keep ending up with stuff like this.
or even just, use something smaller like maybe one of her smaller hammers she uses for smithing so its believable it would JUST hurt and not make them unable to walk again
@@Air21Man I like this approach, but omit the teacher laughing at him. Have her hit him with the hammer, and then he runs to the teacher, but is too proud/sexist to admit that he got one-upped by a girl, and just says it's an accident. That way you don't have an authority figure condoning violence.
Of course this still portrays Parsley as violent, but the other comment's suggestion of a smaller hammer could also help alleviate this a bit, and previous emphasis of the ease of healing magic would also help.
Something that really confuses me about the show's violence is that it's only ever the heroes doing it. The villains talk about doing violence all the time, being a sadist is all Mandrake's character amounts to, but they never get to act on it. Meanwhile the 'heroes' are out there, breaking people's feet, stabbing beasts, disintegrating rats in carnivorous flowers, they are the real violent characters. But the show doesn't recognize this and it creates so much dissonance.
They could fix this by either letting the villains kill things too, and in more gruesome ways than the heroes do, or just make this a kids show and edit out all the blood, which would be shockingly easy to do since the violence doesn't really impact anything and is honestly very jarring.
You could make the dragon egg *super* fucking heavy so they question the entire time why they need to bring it, but it's the teacher's intent to make them realize there are burdens they carry as warriors and that those burdens can be lessened by working as a team to share the load of the superheavy egg.
On the trans topic, I feel like the crux of it is whether being trans is mundane or not (in the context of narrative), and whether or not it's treated that way. Take something currently mundane in real world society, like being left-handed:
If a character is shown to be a lefty in a passive manner, as in they're just animated predominently using their left hand, with no emphasis on it or pointed mention of it, it becomes an appreciable character detail. It becomes representation that makes lefties feel included.
If you were to emphasise it, zoom in on their left hand whenever they use it, have characters bring it up as a significant thing, then it just feels confusing, or kind of frustrating, like "why are you telling me this?". The only time this really works is if a character playfully presents this as a major part of their own character. Think, Sokka with meat when he gets stuck in a crevasse - Sokka liking meat isn't significant to the narrative at all, it's just a character trait that is playfully emphasised in the dialogue.
However, if being a lefty in the context of narrative is significant, for example if the story is set in the early to mid 20th century when lefties often effectively experienced a kind of conversion therapy, it could be used as a tool to give depth to their character in how they deal with society's reaction to their existence. Or maybe their being left-handed is something for a bully character to focus on. But without these extra details being explored in front of the viewer, there is no narrative significance to their being left-handed, so emphasising this trait feels awkward and clunky.
In terms of a trans character, the possible presentations:
1: Being trans is seen as mundane (which is how the vast majority of trans/enby folks want the world to be), in which case a person being trans might come up passively as a part of a conversation about something plot-relevant, or background events or actions are indicitive of a character being trans. This is a great way to have the representation there without the need to tie it into the story.
2: Being trans is mundane, but it's emphasised (like in HGS). It winds up feeling clunky, like you're being told something narratively significant with no followup to it. The only way this works well is if the character makes it a major part of their personality in a playful way (think Osana Najimi from Komi-san).
3: Being trans is significant to the narrative, either by exploring their journey of self-discovery, or by having external sources (like bullies) play off the trait. If there isn't that reason present for the character's gender to be emphasised, then emphasising it feels like you're interrupting the story to say something unrelated to the story.
I guess there could also be the case where being trans is narratively significant, but it's treated as mundane. Which I imagine would just feel like the piece of media isn't taking itself seriously. Which would probably be fine for like a gag anime, but not for something story-driven or character-driven like HGS is trying to be.
I actually really like this take as a trans person because they could have integrated it so much more smoothly if they'd taken this advice.
For example; the way the teacher acts makes it kind of seem like being trans is mundane, just perhaps a bit uncommon (which it is, tbf.) But in a world where transgender people are considered mundane, there would be less of an incentive to be totally quiet about it. This would go doubly for a trans person who is unbothered enough to keep pictures of themself before transition.
So what if, instead, during a lesson on transformation magic, the teacher gives examples, like "Yes! Transformation magic can be very useful! Turn into a dog if you need to track, turn into a bird and fly away, or perhaps like I was, body doesn't match your gender and you want to change it!" It would tie it to magic, and the world, and also characterize it as mundane enough to mention in a list of examples.
As another trans person, I have to agree 100%.
I did dive into the trans community and asked anyone who gave me the time of day all my doubts about being Trans, even before making the outline of my book saga. I wanted one of my characters to be trans because it was the perfect way to move the subplot she shares with my MC. The whole subplot is a whole book and the main focus is not the trans part, but the conflict around it.
I wanted it to be a wow moment but not THE wow moment for her. She will be seen as a woman the whole saga until the moment she, herself, reveal the missing link making it all fit.
In my mind, I treated the trans character with respect and as a complete person, not as banner holder for the community or anything. It's her story, her background, her fears.
In my experience, a trans person will be more likely than not open to talk to a writer about what is really like to be trans. They do want for their situation to not be misrepresented in media so they are cool with honest inquiries about it. Thanks to their input I found a way to openly speak about gender dysphoria along the saga without the reader even realizing it.
So yeah. After how all of that research opened my eyes, it bothers me how the writer of this cartoon managed that topic so badly.
Agreed. I really want representation to be literally ultra-casual. For example, a gay or bi character who never needs to explicitly state it, nor is it particularly focused on. It's just a part of them, not their entire personality.
I realise I should probably clarify, this is specifically in reference to the teacher. Qualcomm Snapdragon™'s gender being focused on is fine, their character arc (I use this word very loosely) is deeply related to their gender so it's fine. The problem is, as discussed in this video, the poor writing for the "arc", and the absolutely offhanded resolution in contrast to the personal importance of it.
They could have easily fixed the issue of the dragon egg feeling out of place by making the goal of their journey into the cave, not the healing water, but the egg. Then Thyme's goal to cure the rot can lead them to the water where they get trapped and use the egg and the water to escape. This also give Thyme the opportunity to feel bad about trapping them and thus open up a bit.
Also, the line is "We knew you'd baulk." Baulk means to back off from or stop short of (usually at the last minute).
1:31:49 Dad: “You’re a freaking pussy, son.”
Snapdragon: “Oh thank you for making it easier for me, dad. I always felt that I was transgender, but I never knew how to tell you…”
Dad: “Shouldn’t have said that. Definitely shouldn’t have said that.”
LOVE THAT
XD
“Don’t tell my dad.”
“Why I thought you said he was progressive?”
“No I said aggressive, he’s-👊🏼”
I have no son.
Thanks dad.
The way i see representation is like this:
We don't want a, for example, "gay character", we want a good character that happens to be gay. Gender, nationality nor skin color should be the only trait that person has or should it be a focus on it, unless the story (main or side story) revolves around that Identity.
Imaking a gay character is just as hard as any other character, it's just one trait.
1000% This!
Problem is that the people getting these jobs, who are bent on representation, all believe that sexuality is a personality trait. And not just a personality trait, but the *only, defining* trait because they're fetishists larping as activists.
@@ForeverLaxx
It's called Tokenization without Characterization. They want that checkbox there regardless if it's good or not
Yeah, when you have that, its really no different than the 'token black character' from the 90s. The problem is that these days, people take those token characters and wave them around like a shield against criticism in the name of 'diversity', which not only puts a spotlight on them, but also results in people seeing the characters as JUST tokens, even when they arent.
Yes!! This exactly! :OO
I wholeheartedly agree with the "it feels like the writers are speaking, not the characters" line of thought. I think that's why people call woke media "preachy" but no one complained about Arcane. Cause there the characters were super complete and motivated and the "woke" elements are part of the setting in a subtle but not hidden way
I'm genuinely amazed that arcane, to my knowledge, hasn't been at all part of any culture war type argument - maybe, it will eventually be criticized in a few years when we turn back to evaluate it in the context of the political moment it was created and released in. But so far it seems just... too good to be criticized (well apart from some details, there's been discussions about fridging and such, but not as a condemnation of the whole show) Generally everyone acknowledges that it does well on class politics, on representation, and it's just ideologically sneaky enough that everyone can see what they like, and or through the lense of the characters, so that there is no major controversy.
It might be similar as what's happening for "the batman" where there is some messiness to the politics displayed but the focus is psychological, and the execution is pretty damn great; and people like ben shapiro who try to weaponize it for "conservative" are laughed out of the room rather than indulged in their ragebaiting.
@@maximeteppe7627 The "preachy" part happens because it's a completly bonkers story, which seems to exist purely to convey a message first and then the story is just aimlessly muddled around.
Arcane doesn't do that. It's a competent story in it's own merits. It's true to the source material without pandering to fans only. All it's progressive and "woke" messaging is just put in the background, as a normal component of the world. You could take all of it away and the story would still be good. It would still be there. If you take the existence of League of Legends away, the show would work EXACTLY the same.
That's part of why Arcane works so well and is not involved in a culture war, because it's not about that.
HGS on the other hand - take the gender-questioning away from Snappy and the character basically disappears from the show.
@@Shuizid is it though? A story only meant to convey a message? The only aspect baked in the main conflict is the old vs new magic dichotomy, but that is incredibly vague and muddled. The villains don't seem to be particularly concerned with clamping down on alternative gender expressions or anything like that either.
It's not a political fable like 1984, sorry to bother you, snowpiercer or a story centered on political conflicts like wolfenstein, hunger games or legend of korra.
In other words, diversity is also mostly flavoring in guardian high spice (apart from the one character who's arc revolves around questioning their gender), it's just more in your face and obviously not as well executed as in arcane.
@@maximeteppe7627 The story is all over the place and not telling anything interesting or new - so it clearly wasn't the main focus of whatever this idea was about which the writer had for almost a decade.
The trans-subplot takes up a huge chunk of the actual story and it's clearly the most established and thought out piece of the entire thing. The old-vs-new magic? Nobody knows what that even was about. The rot? it just comes up without really any progress inbefore they just find a miracle cure in episode 7.
Nothing the characters do or expirience has any meaning or a significant arc apart from Snappy. Yeah Archergirl gets a bit more open, after never giving a reason for being secretive. So that's the trope arc for this character archetype executed half.
The other girls develope zero. Smithy girl can still smith, Swordy fights competent with a sword, the last one uses magic which we are verbally assured is now super special magic.
There is no development, no character building, no problem to overcome - EXCEPT the trans-subplot. Feel free to correct me.
What other topics were touched? Smithgirl not following the traditional family-roles? Meanwhile instead of sleeping in a dorm, the girls got a foster family, because how else hamfist in the gay couple who are not intersting and contribute nothing to the plot?
In Arcana, characters go through arcs. They face resistance, struggle, growth and consequence that are related to their actions. When the hulking lady has a fragile male escort, it's just in the background of the actual actions. It doesn't have any significance to any part of the plot. Snapdragons arc is front and center with the events being just contrived reasons to focus on it. And it's just not even remotly competent enough written to make it engaging, because the writers wanted to have Magical Girls with a trans-sideplot. But then focused on the sideplot.
@@Shuizid let's be honest, there are many other stories that, through incompetence end up as meandering messes - it doesn't mean that the writers only cared about the trans subplot, just that it's the only thing they had enough experience with to execute.
If the goal really was the "agenda", the gender questioning character would be clear main protagonist and everything else would revolve around that;
I really think they wanted to make generic harry potter/owl house/she-ra type show with elements of genderqueer themes but it's all to generic and scattered to be propaganda. Propaganda usually sucks but it has clear goals, here the goal appears purely by default because nothing else makes sense.
A lot of damage was done to the worldbuilding by that one scene of new magic being described as limitless and consequence free. Every critique of the magic system cites this one scene and how it destroys any potential for conflict or interesting development. Even the writers themselves seem to understand this because any time they need to add conflict from the use of new magic they do so by contradicting this scene's message.
It also doesn't make sense to me that the teachers seem to be so universally in favor of new magic. It seems to me that there should be at least one or more teachers who trained in traditional old magic and who see new magic as being too dangerous and untested to teach to little children. In fact it probably would have made for better conflict if most of the school faculty didn't teach it except for the one trans teacher who would have a personal reason to be invested in it.
Imagine if in the gardening scene the teacher had been telling the students how to grow the plants using old magic, but one of the students was doing it faster with new magic, causing the teacher to get angry at them. It could then be the student who gives the line, "Why die of thirst in a desert when you can conjure an oasis?" This line would have been better coming from a student because the audience would still be in doubt about whether the student knew what they were talking about.
The scene of mortally wounding the sea dragon with new magic would have hit a lot harder because it would have presented the students with a situation where using the "obviously superior" new magic backfires horribly. The teachers wouldn't be consoling and understanding, but instead would be like, "We warned you! We told you new magic wasn't to be trusted! Bad student! Ten points from Gryffindor!"
It also would have given more impact to the scene at the end of the show where one of the characters used old and new magic together. It could be a conversion moment for a lot of the other characters. "You can use new magic alongside old magic? Maybe this new magic has more potential than I thought."
That definitely would have been cool. And made way more sense given that institutions, like schools, are far more likely to be tied to tradition than on the cutting edge of development
The idea that new magic is mor creative but versitile an old one is more stabile an you can use mor powerful safe, and together you can be really powerful could work, if they hav ol magic too. And new magic is easier going awry
10 points to Lobstro!
Wanna know something funny? Later on they try to make it seem that the rot in Thyme’s home came from new magic as a way to make it seem like it has negatives. The problem is that later on new magic is then used to fix the rot so they make old magic look even more useless
It's not just the one scene though. The scene was the most blatant example - but at no point did the show ever make an attempt at showing a difference between the two except in name only.
THANK YOU for pointing out that having something bad happen to a minority character doesn't mean you're being an asshole; that's just how STORIES go, what you suggested for Caraway is the same thing that would happen if a cis character wore some kind of disguise to distance from their old life or something. We all need to find the balance between accidentally butchering minority characters and telling a story with actual tension
Or just avoid "minority" characters and write a story.
Or make there "minority" status irrelevant to the story.
@@arnowisp6244 That doesn't happen because the people willing to put minorities in and not make it about their status as a minority also don't want to risk their career by pissing off the loudest critics who honestly it kinda seems like wanna immerse themselves in some kind of thrill of being oppressed without actually interacting with that oppression in reality
@@legojay14 I don't get it. The entire talk about "minorities" is an extremely America-centric conversation that takes for granted what specifically _Americans_ view as "minorities". Even worse, it's a conversation that they insist on having in a _fantasy_ world with _fantasy_ races, presumably with a drastically different cultural context.
Now that’s just…not a good idea. There are good stories and characters that focus a lot on the minority aspect. But it has to have actually meaning and play a part
Your idea is just…kind of bad…like don’t focus on minority characters
This is why we often have them in the background. This is just a really bad take.
I agree story comes first and having it be more casual representation is needed
But there are times it should and can be the main focus. Hay in itself isn’t inherently bad and it’s important to show those aspects too
And it’s important to actually SHOW these characters existing instead of “don’t write minority characters and write a story”
That’s fucking insensitive. I’m sorry for being harsh. But what the fuck. This is a mindset that makes representation hard and continues to make things cishet defaulted
@@nevergonnagiveyouup1180 wait can i ask, who are you replying to? the original comment or one of the replies?
Snapdragon and Amaryllis should’ve just been the main characters. It’s funny how the side characters were much more interesting and yet still managed to follow the progressive ideologies the writers wanted without anyone being annoyed by them.
On the note of new/old magic I genuinely think they probably wanted it to be a subtle analogy for political ideologies, but because it has that undertone and the writers clearly subscribed to one ideology and didn’t even understand the other they couldn’t do much with it without causing ppl to question the ideology that new magic is an analogy for.
Nah. The fact they are side-characters is a part of why they are so awesome.
Parsley should have been the main character: nice with everyone and every creatures, the only one who can bond with Thyme, has a relatiable issue with her family, strong, intelligent, talented, selfless... Parsley is the glue that keeps the gang together and is always enjoyable to watch. She could have been there for Rose and Sage when they break up, she could have been their when they doubt about their crush, she could have been their for Thyme and bring her an alternative family until hers is fixed, she could have been the one with the most knowledge and potential for being a guardian, she could have bonded with the public with her own issues, she could have been the reason why Olive has a redemption arc, she could have been the one who helps Rosemary to search clues about her mom, helps Sage to discover another way to become herself...
Parsley is a perfect person for being the main character.
What I find most interesting about the fight with Mandrake at the school is that, to me, he's written like he's the protagonist. Please consider it! He goes there on a mission only to get betrayed by an ally and then fights off multiple people BY HIMSELF. He also cauterizes his own stab wound with a fire blade like a badass?! I'm rooting for Mandrake in that scene and he's supposed to be the villain! We probably won't get a season 2 but in the weird reality that we do I hope he doesn't get executed. He's too good to die.
Now that you mention it, I think that showing Mandrake as "badass," even when facing multiple people at once, would be a good way of showing that the main characters still have a long way to go. Sure, they drove off the bad guy, but one of the biggest factors there was his ally turning on him, catching him off guard. They're still children/students, after all. Too bad they're probably going to kill Mandrake (I mean if they got a second season lol), he was interesting and it would make a good conflict for the heroes to face him again.
And he has pink/purple hair, so he could be Rose's cousin and that could be a big plot twist that would add extra drama.
@@wish154 OH THAT'D BE A TWIST
Oh! I had the exact same feeling! I was rooting for him despite him being clearly the villain, but I couldn't figure out why! You provided a neat explaination!
(I hope he survives... But considering one of the authors wants all men dead, it's unlikely... =( )
For the heal a tree bit, leave out the tree specification bit. Just ask "What kinds of things is the healing water able to heal?" Implies she wants to use it with the tree to anyone who recalls the motive, which most ought soon as they hear the question, and lets the teacher give open answers and even let you *play with* how useful the response is.
This is a note for myself.
8:00 5:50 tangible dandelion
21:30 romance
27:00 snapdragon logic and engagement
48:10 olive won't kill (look at later)
58:00 unique characters. (Olive after)
1:05:00 magic (arcane spoilers)
1:05:55 olive battle
1:29:20 great ideas trans magic
1:32:28 opinions
1:37:20 commit
1:49:53 foil
1:51:00 redemption arc
1:56:14 villan something (invisible spoiler)
Ohhh thanks I was taking notes and it's so helpful
You can tell how little they care about the love triangle episode because the guy doesn’t even appear in class crowd shots after that, he just gets his toes broken and limps right out of the show.
Honestly I think the magic system between new and old magic could have been interpreted as programming languages. In this analogy new magic could be comparable to Python where its easy to learn and is good for general purposes by essentially automating some processes of old magic but comes at the cost of the spells being more rigid and is dependent on the pre established foundation (or built in functions in coding terms) built from old magic which leads it to being ineffective for significantly more complex spells. old being more like C could lead it to be more complicated to learn and seems slow at first but it could allows the caster to be much more nuanced with how the spells behave where the intimate knowledge can allow the caster to make differing results by making subtle changes but the mental toll of remembering the exact steps would make old magic rather ineffective in general everyday purposes or close quarter combat scenarios.
This would put the two forms of magic in a position where neither one is outright better than the other as they would both have advantages and disadvantage depending on the situation.
That's an actually awesome way to do a magic system. Are there any existing shows that do magic systems this way? Cause I'd love to see this way off writing different magic systems in a world in action
@@Gabriel_Oliver Akashic Records of Bastard Magic Instructor actually touches into a similar idea but the magic system there uses a bit of social engineering where the human perception is used to program and execute spells. It even goes into the idea of changing verses in chants to alter the results of the spell though the anime is rather on the shorter side and I’m pretty certain the light novel goes into more detail on the magic system.
@@mectainea5575 I'll definetly check it out. Thanks!
@@Gabriel_Oliver it has the dumbest school outfits in recent memory, for the female students ofcs. Not for the male ones. Lol
I would have liked that, but I don't see that in HGS. New Magic is SUS!
sokka's attitude towards women in the first three episodes makes perfect sense for his character. at his father's orders he's been the only man protecting his tribe's women for the past two years. he _is_ the patriarch. of course he would develop an attitude like that out of necessity. ep3 should only have articulated that point a little more explicitly, so his character growth is born of realizing his attitude no longer really applies now that he's away from home. the way it was done makes for good character growth anyway but whenever it's brought up, even as briefly as 30:46, it strikes me as a missed opportunity to expand on differences in cultural norms (see also the division of labor in the northern water tribe) instead of just sokka having a bad attitude. i don't think it's a good point of comparison for sage.
Then sokka meets other women with the theme of responsibility just like him. Sukki from kyoshi and the moon girl. Like Sokka, Kyoshi village has no men, vs Sokka who was by himself. Instead of having the responsibility of being the "man", moon girl has to turn into the moon. Yo I just realized, the girl turning into the moon ties into Sokka's wolf motif.
I 100% agree, the way it was presented in the show made it seem like Sokka was the only sexist person in the whole southern water tribe for no apparent reason. Neither Hakoda nor any of the other adults from the tribe ever make sexist remarks, so where did he even learn it from? And like, it'd be ok in any other kids show thats trying to teach children that sexism is bad, but it sticks out like a sore thumb in Avatar bc all the rest of the writing is so top tier and willing to explore complex issues in depth.
@@vero-kd8vg well that's a bit of retrospective criticism: because the show grew a great deal and over it's length had spectacular delivery on major character arcs, you then say the early characterization of sokka is unworthy of the show as a whole... except it was in line with the quality of the show at the time - episodes like the storm were uncharacteristically good, but season 1 had stinkers and slightly underwhelming episodes - so yes, early on, sokka's sexism is treated primarily as a way to teach little boys not to be sexists. And as the writers became more experienced, they then made more compelling stories that tie in better with the worldbuilding as the characters and the world intself grew deeper.
That said, the northern water tribe episode - as well as the flasback of the father leaving, shows that the water tribes are patriarchal, the southern one is less so, perhaps because the war has necessitated that women take charge in the men's absence - and boys like sokka can still mimic patriarchal norm they've been raised with in an immature and exaggerated way.
It fit in with his ar and insecurities, an his sexism can , ok its not as thought out, but still very much fits that he hangs on idea what a man should be but learns he is good the way he is, very creative and gains real confidence.
It make sense that he fort sheds his sexim. And its probably th writers seeing, w cant hav him go on being sexist, but it makes sense and integrates well into him arc organic.
An suki being the one kicking his ass playful and showing him making him dress a kyoshi, its a good lesson.
@@maximeteppe7627 hmm those are good points!
As someone who is currently trying to write my own webcomic all on my own, ive been watching a lot of videos that analyse/critique media, and yours is one of the most informing, open and creative ones i've seen, and this video's conclusion was very nice to hear. i wish you the best with your webcomic, which i will definitely check out
also i thought your ideas for an alternate trans-teacher scene were very good and way more dynamic and fun than what the show did
May I ask what the title of that webcomic is?
@@quackquack8775 I second this; I want to support my fellow webcomic artists
Ooo what's the comic called?
@@eldritchabomination9726 Its not out yet, but it will be called "Frankenstein: The Unbound Prometheus" Still working on the script =')
@@Brightgoat Wishing you the best of luck, from one webcomic creator to another!
I think the real problem with the cat villain's "redemption", is that there seems to be no explanation for why she was on the villains' side to begin with.
Clearly, she was willing to do something wrong, but she wasn't outright evil and there were lines she was unwilling to cross. And her betrayal was an inevitability because she was forced to either cross those lines or switch sides. Which feels weak and pointless because the viewer doesn't understand her conflict.
So, why was she a villain? What was her motivation, her goal, her desire?
Note: I haven't seen the show myself, so if there _is_ an explanation... well, I'd like to hear it, so I can know if I still still agree with my hypothesis that knowing it makes it better.
The only reason I know (from watching this series) that she was on the villain's side is because she's from the witch country. It was not shown nor told that she grew up there but let's just assume it that way.
Witch country is like an evil country in the series since they do sketchy things and they have the triumvirate which are the evil counterpart of the triad (the headmasters in the school).
@@reiri5764 so the explanation is literally, "she's a "villain" bc she's from the witch country"
Speaks a lot about the authors creativity.
also im pretty sure there's some superstition there too with the character,she's a black cat,and usually the black cat is a witch's pet/companion,so it make's "sense" she's on the evil side
It kinda seems like she just spawned there, which is the absolute last thing you want to come across to the viewer.
@@Pacca64She is the equivalent of those people who join an rp server in the middle of a big arc and they just dick around having no idea what's going on.
If there were other students that specialize in Old Magic why was Sage treated like the only student that used it, why couldn't she just reach out to those students, why were they primarily teaching with New Magic if Old Magic was always an option?
That could have actually been interesting, after distancing herself from rosemary she finds a semi underground group of students that study old magic so they make an old magic club where they learn from each other
That way rose needs to grow as a character since sage found a group of people that support her in a way she couldn't do, that could play into her insecurities about her mom leaving and her being a guardian which could be interesting
I once threw around ideas for my version of a fixed HGS. Other than the plot's central conflict being focused on overworked teachers, corner-cutting at the expense of student safety, and a principal who's introduction is him drunkenly telling all the students in his opening speech they will all die in this academy, was what old vs new magic would/should look like. One idea that popped up was that old magic required manual setup for a very specific task with each new task or parameter needing a redoing of the magical array. Now, throw in an intelligence behind the spell, and that will hasten things up, but at the expense of creating undefined behaviour. Like a stone-cutting spell that's supposed to avoid living beings, carving up a dragon's chest for seemingly no reason. Now, you have an additional plot thread to work with.
@@pmester228 love the concept, makes way more sense and ties back to actual coherent themes
Also this reminded me of a new type of stone cutting saw that can cut through stone but not flesh although it requires careful set-up and maintenance, did you reference that?
@@pmester228 Not a bad idea
@@airplanes_aren.t_real Well. The dragon part was a ref to what happens in the show, though one of the few concrete ideas my fix had was changes to that scene. Principal sucks out the life force from his limbs to have enough power for healing the dragon, and after he becomes a human bean and gets carried away on a stretcher, we'd get probably Rosemary realising and saying, "So, this is what it means to be a guardian". I.e: going as far as crippling or even killing yourself just to save others. Also, a way to redeem the principal.
As for magic, I took it more from IT. Especially architectures. Old magic is hardwired, while new magic is more like microcode or FPGAs. Including vulnerabilities like Spectre.
I'm pretty sure at 49:45 he is saying "We knew you'd balk" as in hesitate
Bonk is funnier tho
"You can't have character and then be like 'Oh, this is my baby nothing bad can ever happen.'"
This is actually why a lot of modern media just has no impact. Humans are creatures of contrast. We understand the world through it. To make emotional high beats, you need the contrast of emotional lows. When you see a character suffer, it makes the moment when they pull out of that all the more triumphant. If nothing ever stood in the way of what they wanted, if nothing ever hurt, then nothing good that comes of the story has any potency, because it was all the same level of emotional intensity. When you become afraid to make your audience unhappy or uncomfortable, you end up with a story that, while they might get through to the end, once it's finished, they'll never think about it again because nothing stood out.
Where would the satisfaction of smashing Sharp-Tooth with a giant boulder be if Sharp-Tooth didn't murder Littlefoot's mom on screen? How much would you believe in Aunt May's relief at being told the truth about Uncle Ben's death if you didn't see that the agony of reliving the moment when Peter told it to her was so great she couldn't process it at the moment and could only leave the room in the middle of the conversation?
Don't be afraid to make your audience feel sad or uncomfortable. Just make sure you're doing it for a reason - IE, using it to establish emotional contrast to maximize the satisfaction of success later in the story.
Or, you know, do it in reverse if you're writing a tragedy.
Funny enough, as a writer I actually tend to torture my favorites way more than I torture my unfavorites. It makes me care about them more. I can't fathom why people would avoid hurting their characters, stories are about conflict and pain.
@@yawninglion1677 I don't know if you necessarily need to torture the character, but if it works, it works.
@@cheezemonkeyeater Well torture's a strong word but one does end up literally tortured by the villains... I just definitely agree with the philosophy that a writer should hurt their babies.
This is how I feel about media like Berserk. Berserk is my favorite story ever written, not in spite of how much shit Guts gets, but because of how he gets beaten down over and over, and watching him get back up again and again is so inspiring. Watching a man fight against literal demons every single day is something I just can’t help but love, but the weight of that conflict only matters because of what happened during the Eclipse.
The problem I have with Mandrake's introduction isn't because it's "edgy" but because it's breaking the rule of "show, don't tell". Like, breaks it over its knee, throws it in the shredder and lights it on fire.
Having a character say "Can I break your cat's neck?" is the equivalent of having them say "Oh, I'm evil by the way, like really mean and a psycho". It's just... fucking embarrassing to watch because you know it's the best the writer could come up with to quickly establish a character. It's also not something a psychopath would say, just someone who wants you to -think- they're a psychopath.
You could take so many other routes, like environmental storytelling (have dead animals lying in cages or dismembered around the lair), have your character DO something evil (like randomly kill an animal in frustration), or inform us of this character's tendencies through the actions of other characters (those familiar with the character visibly guard their pets around him). All of these options keep the "edginess" if that's what you want the impression to be, just do Fucking ANYTHING besides "Hey I'm the new character, I like to break cats' necks".
Agreed on that. There's an entire "kick the puppy" trope for this reason. It's just a brainless way of getting someone you don't know automatically on your bad side in as few seconds as possible, _without_ any actual stakes.
Dio in his important first appearance in JoJo outrights kicks a dog
For no reason
It was a giant THIS GUY SUUUUUUUCKS cardboard sign that fit with the theme of the anime, lol, they can't even do that?
@@notmocka Jojo is a whole 'nother thing. It takes "tropey" and dials it to 11, to the point where it goes from good to bad and then back to good again.
@@timogul haha exactly, when i first watched i didn't know a thing about it, and thought I would absolute hate it
Ended up loving bc its spicy tropes up to eleven
@@notmocka Not only that but he also burns the dog alive to really tell you he's a psycho
Ok, I'm only like 30 minutes in, but that line "I'd be happy for her, because she usually only talks about murder!" was actually fantastic. I haven't even watched this sorry show but even with just the context in this video that line is hysterical to me. Too bad everything Sage said surrounding it was peak cringe.
We need a remake from snapdragon's perspective
I fully agree. It expresses genuine care and concern while also being actually funny in-context.
@@airplanes_aren.t_real To be fair, this show seems to need any remake, period.
@@Talguy21 amen, specially considering the remakes that have already been done by other content creators
@@airplanes_aren.t_real yeah just get someone to do a super cut of all snapdragon's parts and most will prob like it XD
Legitimate question from someone who only watched like half of the show: Do they ever explicitly state what a Guardian is? Like, what is the textbook definition of a guardian in the context of this show?
No. No they do not.
Nope. I’m not even sure what threats Guardians are supposed to… protect people from? (Assuming there supposed to be defenders)
@@foggytuesday101 bad writing... And they did a good job... XD
God, wouldn’t we all like to fucking know, they never tell us! 🤣
based on the show; someone legaly allowed to kill creatures without having to face legal consequences
(because ....well that seems to be their thing)
1:40:40
Actually, that definition of Mary Sue is a more recent blanket accusation. Mary Sues are not inherently self-inserts (and self-inserts are not inherently Mary Sues), and while there is common overlap that's not really the defining aspect. A Mary Sue doesn't even need to be the most powerful person in the room (Bella Swan is considered a Mary Sue even before she DOES become the most powerful person in the room in the latter half of Breaking Dawn).
What separates a Mary Sue from a powerful character is that Mary (or Gary) bends the rules of the universe. This winds up usually being used to make them excessively powerful, but also to make them the most beloved, the most right, the most oppressed, or the most whatever it is the author wants out of them. Gary Stus are usually The Most Powerful due to constantly breaking the laws of the universe in terms of power structure and getting unique special skills that nobody else can replicate or fight against; the traditional Mary Sue, by contrast, is the character around whom the entire narrative operates even though she doesn't actually do anything. Bella Swan isn't a Mary Sue because eventually she gets the most broken vampire power, it's because she's a useless lump but for some reason everybody fawns over her and wants to be her friend and all the hot guys are after her and the enemy vampires loathe her for no good reason.
And in the anime realm, why Kirito is also considered a Mary Sue; he didn't have to do anything on-screen to reach his level, he just enters SAO massively outclassing everybody else and has access to resources they don't and also gets a hopelessly broken unique skill and despite being terrible all the hot girls want him. What did he do to deserve it? Be the main character.
While the term's been diluted over time, broadly speaking, when somebody levels accusations of a Mary Sue it's not JUST because the character is overpowered; they're overpowered in a way that breaks the story logic of story and becomes narratively unsatisfying. While being OP can be a symptom of such a character, the definition still ultimately lies not in their power levels, but their place in the story, and how the world and the people in it warp to accommodate their needs.
Using Kirito as an example of a Mary Sue has always boggled my mind. I wonder if the people who say this even watched the anime or just didn’t pay attention?
He enters the game as the same level and skills as everyone else. Why he is more powerful is literally explained in the narrative of the first (and other) episodes. He beta tested the first version of the game so knows a lot about the world to level up fast as well as its bugs (and finding new bugs). He states that the reason he abandons the other players in the world (Kline specifically) when they are trapped is to leave and level up in the most efficient way before the enemies are whittled down by everyone else.
He didn’t just magically become high levelled he earned it all be it through cheating (cause of existing knowledge) which you guessed it is discussed in another episode. This is why I say anyone who makes these comments must have been asleep or just hasn’t watched it.
The girl’s thing also seems strange to me, putting aside the harem trope which is in numerous anime, each girl is attracted to Kirito for different reasons. Each reason explained through the story so hardly “cause mc”. It’s been a while but from memory Silica likes him because he goes out of his way to save Pina. Lizbeth I seem to recall was because he helped her gather new materials and saves her life? His actions brought it about it didn’t just randomly happen.
Take what you just said replace it with Ainz Ooal Gown and you get the same result. Using any Isekai for Mary Sue conversations is stupid because the genre makes its name from overpowered characters that warp the world around them. The girl thing applies more to Ainz than it does to Kirito cause in Overlord they love him LITERALLY because hes the MC! But in both instances the world doesn't warp it simply is altered by their actions.
Agree with this. While the common MS is associated with having unmeasurable powers, it's not everything. One Punch Man f.e. is also overpowered beyond anything. Literally nothing can stop him, yet he's a very loved character by the fans simply because of how his overpoweredness is used in the story.
OP characters can be good characters... They just need a competent writer to achieve that... YOU HEAR THAT REY?!
@@shimirel Yeah.... nah.
The main issue here is mainly that we can't see his path of becoming so OP. Yes, he does do level ups, but do we ever, EVER see him fight monsters to achieve this? No. Having him fight monsters, and perhaps even struggle at the start, would allow us to root for him more easily.
Also, yes, the reasons why the girls fall for him is pretty much what you mentioned... Yet you left out his sister (or cousin) who also is attracted to him for reasons not really explained. Tho that can be shoved into the "Part of the classic Harem Anime" section... It's sad to see how many animes have this kind of stuff where a relative is sometimes attracted to the MC.. especially in unhealthy and sexual ways. But I guess that's just culture...
@@andre_601 We don't fully see his path to becoming OP, but that really has nothing to do with being a Mary Sue. It is not like there is something happening off screen that doesn't really make sense or that you think it couldn't happen onscreen and make sense. He just... leveled up. He isn't even the single highest level player iirc, he is like the same level or one level higher than the frontline force... It's just that SAO wasn't about leveling up, it focused on other stuff.
Also, there is the fact that Kirito is strong because he is skilled. He literally got the skill because of his reflex speed, which is at least useful in a fight. The skill is kind of falling from the sky, but it is not without a reason at least.
@@andre_601 They also failed to mention that Kirito literally comes back from the fucking dead and so does Asuna after their health reached zero. Like that was the whole crux of the stakes in the game, but for some dumbass reason Kayaba decided that he'd what- go into the code a turn off the killing microwaves for these two characters specifically?? It's also not just about bending reality, its about massive leaps and logic and required assumptions and forcing the audience to do all the work to make things make sense. Solid writing doesn't need the audience to make up shit for the writer.
Bro that scene with Parsley dropping a hammer on Aster’s foot could have been better if Rosemary tripped Parsley and made her drop her hammer on Aster’s foot. Parsley could even chastise Rosemary afterwards.
Re: Parsley breaking a guy’s toes and left leaning media being ok with it, I’ve noticed the same thing and it always comes off as some kind of petty revenge on behalf of the writers, not an actual in-character moment. It makes me sad, because there ARE responses to insults/catcalling/etc that aren’t violent, but could give an audience catharsis. There are way too many options that aren’t focused on breaking bones or kicking someone in the dick that can be so much more true to a character’s motivations.
Heck, for once, give me a character who doesn’t know what to do. No witty comeback prepared or anything, just shock. Maybe they freeze. Maybe the comment made keeps them up at night. Maybe it can motivate them to grow as a character. Do something with it!!
Violence against males is generally more accepted. It's nothing new or left leaning. Quite the opposite - HGS and other "progressive" shows still enforce the old trope that females are pure and good and redeamable - whereas being bad and evil is pretty much exclusive to white males. Across media, you hardly find a female supervillain.
seriously just steal from westerns make them more evil make it so the audience is more than reasonably justified in watching this asshole get what's his or hell if you don't to up his assholeishness just have him do it to himself she lays the hammer on wall or something he gets told off and kicks the hammer in frustration bam now it's geniunley funny to and not too cruel you can even have the characters apologising while laughing and it would work hell me and my family did that alot to eachother when we fell on the hardfloor
That actually sounds like a funny yet great characterization moment. Have a character take a nasty insult and then just cut to them lying in bed that night staring at the ceiling in distress, haha.
@@SeeMyDolphin hell, wait an episode or two and have the same situation occur with a different insult/catcall/whatever and have them respond with a retort that only works for the previous slight. Finish up by giving them a bit more character growth including some extra confidence and throw in a third iteration of the situation, and this time give them a few good off the cuff responses that make the aggressor a laughing stock.
That way you can get something of a five stages of grief when denial is preceded by shock and depression has some tinges of embarrassment and humiliation to fuel the catharsis that comes in place of acceptance.
eh, as someone left leaning [at least in UK terms] I agree! In the case of this guy [i forgot his name] maybe he was super into sports and breaking his toes has crippled his entire future, however he also learns that catcalling and basically harassing people sucks [possibly from someone he meets in magic hospital if this world has em].
This leads to a moment where he meets up with the mc and is along the lines of 'hey. I'm sorry for basically putting you on the spot, but jesus christ you need to work on how you handle things! my future is ruined now!'
I enjoy hearing your takes on this show. BUT your own changes and stories are amazing!! I'm always stunned how good your own version is XD
This. 💯
in retrospect, if you don't have to worry about rewrites such as reworking storyboard, budgets, voice acted scenes, etc, it's easy to take something in it's current form and readjust it to make more sense.
The same can be said for most weekly manga as well, for how long they go on, the mangaka themselves may forget things that would of been better in the moment or even forget about certain aspects completely because of their tight schedule. Where as the passive reader we can look at it and go "but this would of made more sense given what they drew 2 years ago"
There's always a certain amount of comedy to hearing how the spitballed ideas mentioned offhandedly in these videos are infinitely better than what a paid team was able to come up with
Raye just did an interview at Creative Block and it really shines a light on him as a showrunner and creator. He basically tells everyone that he never had an actual finished storyline and all he did was pitch High Guardian Spice then after it was approved that was the only time they started in world building and that's the only time they were coming up with the story. Basically he just had a concept and idea in his mind but never an actual story so not surprisingly, the show had no good story to tell because there was never a story to begin with. Just a generic concept of magic, students and a vague looming threat. During the interview, I also found Raye to be very complacent. Like this is the entertainment industry. It's supposed to be fast paced, the audience is supposed to be very brutal and hard to impress so you really have to work on it. But Raye just kept blaming the company for not giving him an office early, not giving him enough time, and he blames the audience for not understanding and seeing the good side of his show even though it was utterly offensive to the intelligence of the audience. What's funny is that he literally says "I'm not a writer" and all this time that he never had a finished story in mind, he was only relying on his writers to create and finish the story for him.
You know, I'm a bit proud of this trans-man having the balls to pitch an "idea" for 10 years that seems to consist out of a title and some generic-stock characters from every magical girl show ever. Plus a hamfisted trans-subplot which may or may not be actualy the worst possible thing depending on how much the teachers behavior is considered "grooming"...
On that note, how the hell did this show even get greenlit in the first place. It's an anomaly that a show with nothing was given the ok for production.
I honestly feel bad for most of the people who worked on this show. They were on a ship destined to sink.
This show was doomed to fail, from the moment it was greenlit. No amount of budget would save this.
@@Shuizid Yeah, the teacher trying to help a child change his gender really felt like grooming and was just really a bad scene.
@@lillypad6936 CR wanted a cheap inhouse production to see if they can grow with their own studio. And they looked at the grown manchild who talked about his (pseudo) "woke" idea for a couple of years now and because that fake-wokeness is in right now (god knows why - it's certainly not because of success) it seemed like the perfect fit.
The higher-ups propably were like me, thinking dude would have at least a decently fleshed out world and just needed a bit of writing to get the characters and story going. Which was even better for a cheap production because it meant less time was needed to get it done - and less time was given.
49:50 - Smoke ball is saying "We knew you'd balk." Basically, it's stating that it knew Olive has a moral compass and as a known element, the villain faction completely expected her to chicken out of the EVIL AGENDA and refuse murder.
1:40:27 Mandrake's "Can I break its neck?" line doesn't work because it's both cringey and unnecessary tell-don't-show. It's there to show that he's a bad guy with a sadistic streak, but the same idea could have gotten across by him reaching for the cat with a evil look, and/or the cat reacting with hissing and scratching to his presence.
It's hard to describe why the line is cringey, but if I were to narrow it down, it's too much. Even ignoring things like character design and shot composition and line delivery, it's a line that feels cooler than it is. It's full of sound and fury, but means nothing. It feels unrealistic. Not to say that no one has said similar things in similar contexts, but I wouldn't expect an actually dangerous character to ask to hurt something, I'd expect them to just do it, or make the threat itself more subtle.
Actually, the lack of subtlety adds to the cringiness. It makes it feel more fake, like a character on stage just announcing that they're sad or angry. It's so obviously fake and unrealistic that it pulls you from the scene itself. It sounds like something a teen would say while trying to come off as cool and threatening, while having nothing to back that up (Doesn't help that he looks like an edgy teen). It feels like it's trying to stir a reaction rather than be a legitimate threat, which, personally, makes him feel less dangerous
The only way a line like that would be good is if the answer was "sure, go ahead". If he does it, that makes him actually villainous and hateable, if he doesn't, you can play that for comedic effect, he's a dog that caught the car and has no idea what to do with it. Even if he only ends up snapping the neck of an illusion so there's no real consequence, at least there's some payoff, at least you actually show something and not just tell it.
A fix might be; as he is walking up to Olive the cat steps in front of him so he kicks it out of the way. Olive picks up the cat because it was hurt and he threatens to break the cat's neck if it gets in his way again. "Next time that rag gets in my way I'm breaking it's neck." or something like that. I think having the threat not be a request makes it more intimidating and less cringe.
It's just cheap and lazy character writing. Instead of showing us why he's evil, just have him express a desire to abuse a cute animal.
Also, the catgirl seems like the type of person who'd call out a cringy edgelord comment. So both sides of the interaction feel unrealistic
@@snekysneks Seems a bit to bitter, he appears like one of those smiley psychos. The poorman's Kimbly, like Tyrion from RWBY. It'd probably be better if he is walking, the cat moves out of the way, he quickly corrects specifically to boot it.
I was half-expecting the other dragon to suddenly go "I'm okay!" like with the first dragon.
There's a part of the creative process that I call "fermentation".
This is when you have ideas, but you don't know how to use them, and you try to figure it out.
There's a neat trick about the fermentation process that nobody seems to know about. You can actually just leave the ideas in the back of your mind to ferment on their own.
No matter how many techniques you use to plan out your story, the most important factor is how much time your ideas spent fermenting. Some techniques _can_ speed up the process, but most techniques can't.
The reason this happens is because no matter how hard you try, biological functions take time. The deeply complex biological functions take a really long time. Forming new neural connections takes days. Forming new neurons with new neurotransmitters takes months.
I recommend at least 9 months of fermentation before trying to implement anything.
You can even ferment multiple projects at the same time, up to a limit.
Yeah. And sometimes you write them down and sometimes they are just in your mind. It's a really nice feeling when an old "unfinished" idea finally finds it's way to the story, just by the thought and writing process naturally progressing to a suitable spot for it to enter.
Y'know, the thing I've always said about LGBT+ representation in media is that in order to have a LGBT+ Character, you have to have a character first. You filled in the name, gender, and a single personality trope on the card, but where's the bio? Their gender cannot be the only thing about them, else they're just a token character, and that's just-... Fake feeling all around.
Gimme some hobbies, gimme some interests. Let Snap be into chess or writing or something, give them a diary or an interest in birds or something. Sure let them also question why they keep wondering what it'd feel like to wear a dress, but not every scene they're in has to be centered around that.
exactly, My Hero Academia has 2 trans characters, and the fact they are trans is never once mentioned in the whole show, they are characters instead of tokens and that´s why they work
1:14:36 On that one little point about Usopp having the specific thing in his bag, you chose a bad clip to use.
He did not have that in his bag, he specifically asked Kanjuro in a flashback to draw him that very thing to use for his shot.
ah, a fellow Usopp defender
God ussop must be praised
I was looking for a good comment that defended our God Usopp
@@spritemon98 Go D. Ussop, thank you very much
Even then I can't think of a time he had a super convinient thing in his bag. Like specially post timeskip, he pulls shit that basically amounts to "ranged attack for the occasion", no shark repellent level stuff.
I always find it a bit yikes when a story creator blatantly self-inserts themselves into their story, especially when they portray themselves as super cool, super smart, and getting all the babes.
I had a similar problem with boyfriends (series on webtoon)
yknow what? i really appreciate your ideas and concepts behind how they could've better handled the transgender narrative arc, especially characters being put in difficult positions like being outed. as a trans woman myself, that's a daily risk. any time i'm in public it's "what if i slip up? what if someone realizes? am i in danger if someone clocks me as trans?" . as is, snapdragon's story is very relatable to my own coming out experience, and that of a lot of women...but like you said, that kind of dulls the uniqueness of the character, and takes away from what could've been their own, very different experiences. hell, that could've been a great point of contrast that snapdragon is male to female while the professor is ftm; those are two very different experiences, and a lot of times can cause conflict. "why would you want to give up something i value so highly?" is a common thing between trans men and women.
that last bit is actually heartbreaking. that's a bit like telling a trans guy he's sexist bc he doesn't want to be a girl.
I understand longing for something you don't have and see another person have it and not want it can be hard, but we should all sympathize with each other's struggles bc at the end of the day, we're all just trying to be ourselves and it's not like you can trade bodies so there's no harm done if someone transitions from the gender someone else wants.
Anyway, my heart goes out to you in this difficult time, I really hope things turn around soon and you and the community can feel safe
Old magic being useless compared to new magic could work as a plot point. Imagine you and your family back through the generations were renowned as archers, and were treasured because of their ability to hunt and bring in food. Then one day somebody arrives selling guns that anybody can use with little effort or practice and be just as if not more effective then the famous archers. The only reason a character would hold onto the archery would be because it defined their family legacy and they grew up training to uphold that legacy. Suddenly they have to choose between embracing the new and trying to bring their family forward, or sticking with what they grew up idolising and what the rest of their family religiously favours. because if they don’t move to guns,they will lose their historical position as the towns hunters to another family who embraced guns, and fall from grace.
Not all narratives have to be about practicality. People are stubborn.
In regards to She-Ra, the core theme of the show is parental trauma and the cycle of abuse, so it makes sense that there’s a chain of characters with similar backstories.
High Guardian Spice just doesn’t.
Thanks, that's exactly why She-Ra works and HGS doesn't. She-Ra has a theme and runs with it (not to mention the characters feel like distinct characters, despite having similar backgrounds). HGS is just... all over the place.
Also comparing Hordak and Hordak Primes dynamic to Catra/Adora and Shadow Weaver was quite oversimplified. Catra and Adora have a sibling dynamic in an opressive "household", where you are entirely measured by your proficiencies. A pissing contest gone wrong. More akin to Nebula and Gomorrah.
Hordak tries to prove that he is more than a defective, expendable copy. Just so he doesn't end up inside a hive mind as an automaton.
Not to mention that all the kids grew up as Horde Soldiers, of course they would have similar issues, they were brought up the same way.
I absolutely agree. I disagree that She-ra's approach was uninspired writing. There is a difference between long running thematic character parallels and copy pasting character conflicts. Glimmer's parent issues are different than Catra and Adora's because one conflict comes from an abusive parental relationship while Glimmer's family conflict comes from trauma and difficult expectations in a genuinely loving family.
Many character plots in She-ra are about the pressures of living up to expectations. The toxic expectations of abusive parents, the expectations of leadership and heroism (both internal and external), the burdens of being forced to shoulder the fate of their world. And it's a thread that runs through all 5 seasons through multiple characters and plotlines, not just a few episodes.
Yeah this is the only point I definitively disagree on. Especially since the set up makes Horde Prime a genuinely intimidating villain (and REALLY shows the range on his VA) but is also gets paid off in the episodes with Glimmer and Catra that act as the catalyst for Catra's redemption arc.
Not quite, in She ra it goes: Shadow Weaver on Catra and Hoard Prime on Hoardok, two separate chains both way too short to get any meaningful insight.
I agree to an extent - while I don't think the whole thing between Hordak and Horde Prime works in relation to the parental trauma/abuse thing for a few reasons, I think that pretty much every other strained parent-child relationship in She-Ra does work because of its overarching themes.
As for Parnell, I never thought their character was going for humour tbh, I thought they were going for more of a "seemingly absent-minded character who is still really competent just off having excellent instincts and intuition", which is a lil tropey but still a relatively fun trope if executed well and the stuff they get away with isn't TOO bullshit.
I feel like the "new magic vs old magic" could've been completely different.
(Using info from the show) Like "new magic" could be specific pre-made magic stuffed into terraspheres. Like a fire terrashere can *only* use a certain fire spells, an invisibility terrasphere can *only* use invisibility spells, and etc. New magic could be instant and forcibly drains energy from the world causing the rot. A magic user usually uses a few stones at once. This could be because money reasons (like they can be insanely expensive) or because the stones (depending on the quality. Higher quality= better magic but would be extremely rare) would react badly when too many are held by the same person. they're quick and easy to use
Old magic wouldn't be as limited as new magic. You can cast almost any type of magic as long as you have the time to draw the runes/magic circle and the ingredients. It would be more eco-friendly than new magic because the energy needed would be taken from the ingredients which individual ingredients would give the right energy for certain spells. Like tears from a heartbroken mermaid could be used to heal fatal wounds or ashes from a thousand year tree could be used for plant magic. The stronger the spell means the higher quality/the rarer the ingredients need to be. However drawing the symbols and/or circles take way too much time for instant use like new magic is intended for. The stronger the magic the more intricate the circles.
So while old magic eco freindly and is more useful for utility and an old magic user can use almost any kind of magic, strong magic literally cannot be used instantly.
On the other hand new magic can be used on the fly whenever, and is better for people who don't wanna remember runes and stuff. The reasons why the gardian school prefers new magic is because new magic is more explosive and is better for quick combat.
The new magic could've been made in witch country as an "easier alternative" to old magic. Basically like something made for the quick hustling and bustling society who doesn't have enough time for spell circles and stuff. This causing the rot could be a metaphor for how people in our world created pollution for convenience reasons
I find myself agreeing
Wouldn’t new magic be just as limited as old magic by ingredients in this case though?
@@wannabehistorian371 I mean technically, but I'm trying to keep to the base idea of "giving back to the world" idea the show had by incorporating it into the magic itself. Kinda like a "give something to get something of the same value" sorta thing.
Technically my idea is they're both limited but in different ways. Hense why there would be people who still study "old magic" and others who think "new magic" is the way to go.
i was really invested in this video, i really was, but when 1:36:06 kicked in i could NOT stop laughing. i am still completely enthralled by the quote "you FOOL, how will you scissor with a mermaid?"
As a trans woman I really enjoy the way you dissected the Snapdragon arc! I feel like a lot of queer people are desperate enough for any representation at all that the "reading the wikipedia page" style characters are praised way more than they should be. Gender expression and identity are often very confusing and cause some extreme emotions, and Snapdragon is the only trans person I've ever seen hear about transitioning and then go "oh yea :)" and look like they feel less than they did before hearing about it. Being trans is life-changing and messy and extremely fulfilling, and I think portraying it like it's a clean-cut problem with a solution isn't just engaging from a story perspective, but it also feels like it doesn't really represent being trans from a gender perspective as it does from a medical one. Overall, I loved this video and your take on being trans in a story!
Agreed, although at the same time those "reading off of wikipedia" type characters obscure way better characters, even when they are criticized
I feel a problem is also a bit that the world doesn't really justify an exploration of the part that makes it confusing to begin with. First of all, if the world allows an easy transitioning for basically anyone, the concept in itself shouldn't be a problem. Like, someone who bullies a person for being insecure about their gender would be the one that would be looked at strange. Furthermore, since all is done with magic and even reversable, you can just try out your gender and just decide what you want to do. You can even change it daily if you want to. I feel, that therefore such a world could show a representation of how you would imagine people to be if the world was already far enough developed. You could basically show a world where the whole concept of gender isn't existing anymore, because everyone can change it anytime which would be interesting and depending on what you want to achieve with your story, you could show different aspects of this.Point is just that in a world as in HGS, you can't really explore the problems people face in our current one. At least not in depth as far as I am concerned, but I am also not a trans-person so I am not the best to say this maybe.
As a heterosexual non-trans white male, I obviously can't speak from personal experience, but just from applying logic to how Snapdragon is characterized, it feels like the show is conflating being unhappy with gender roles/stereotypes (what his family told him men "needed" to be like) with both, gender expression (which is very similar to gender stereotypes but can also just be about assuming something about others, imho) and gender dysphoria. While Snapdragon seems to have (understandable) issues (for a lack of a better word) with/in all 3 categories, I wouldn't think a teacher should immediately offer transitioning as a solution, especially to a young, impressionable teen who might simply act out of peer pressure (for all the teacher knows). Snapdragon might simply like cross-dressing and prefer a more feminine expression of the male gender, it's not 100% clear that he needs to transition (not that there would be anything wrong with transitioning).
@@Nr4747 you should check out ua-cam.com/video/r3DgQ1z1BqE/v-deo.html they talk about the full scene where transition magic is brought up but it's not framed as the only option
@@Nr4747 Exactly. It's messy, confusing, and the "solution" isn't always as clear-cut or perfectly suited as it's presented. When you apply the standards of a bunch of arbitrarily-created human constructs to edge cases, then it's not just a matter of "drink the potion and it'll fix everything." What you learn as a child, the things you must confront now, and the expectations of others can make this situation extremely confusing if you've never had the opportunity to work it out before running into such issues.
I’m reminded how uncreative this show is. I’d like to mention (as I’m certain others have) that this world has giants, centaur’s, dwarves, elves, demon people (or tieflings), Satyrs and mermaids and unless they are or somehow connected to the main characters or the focus of the episode, we only ever see humans being side characters or background characters 95% of the time. A third of these races are teachers that we see a handful of times… and the only ones of their species we actually get to see.
"High Guardian Spice was roped into a culture war." My brother in Christ, your trailer went out of your way to push it into one.
One point I noticed with the final shot and which REALLY points out the failed "progressive" nature of the show is gender equality or the lack thereof.
The maincast is all (cis-/trans-) female.
The good leaders are all female (old guardians).
The redeemable badguy is female.
While there are people of color, the POC in the maincast is the indegenous nature-loving-type who lived in the woods (though that's maybe just my over-interpretation). All other POC are minor characters as even the old guardians are all white and so are the two teachers with most screentime.
The ENTIRE rest of the badguys are (white) males - the high-council-whatever, the acting antagonist and the pretty boy who was worthy getting his foot smashed.
So when Bluehair talked about the special bond between girls, it's considered an actual FACT, written in by the writer - as it's only offensive by virtue of being directed at the trans-female. Especially with the later reveal it's basically saying "Boys are shallow".
Yeah the mother is also with the bad guys and recommended to execute a badguy. But this just feels like some cheap missdirection for a later redemption or setup for a later Darth Vader moment, except it's already spoiled for the audience.
I know, it's a magical girl show and thus to be expected for the maincast to be female. And there are some decent males on the good side so I'm not saying it's sexist in general - but it's falling into the pseudo-progessive-but-actually-oldschool messaging that "being bad and deserving violence" is a trait exclusive for males... at least I have trouble thinking about an iconic female main villain from any popular media... Oh wait, Poison Ivy. Anyone else? Harley Quin doesn't count as she is just a creation by the Joker hence no "main" villain.
Also did I get this right, the idea of the story existed for almost a decade and the main conflicts in the worldbuilding are "the rot" which gets resolved by episode 7 and "old vs new magic", which gets resolved around episode 10 by a teacher and ep12 by the only magic-user in the team combining it to... do some new-new magic that's adding up to 3 types of magic with zero difference established?
Idea for crush episode: Make crush guy the temporary protagonist and point of view. Have us hear his worries about keeping up a front, see him trying to keep himself distant from others, give us a chance to see how the world we've gotten used to looks though eyes we haven't seen through before, filtered through his jerk tendancies, see how someone less kindly interacts with the fantastical elements around him
High Guardian Spice reads like the guy who created it played a D&D campaign themed after Harry Potter, got really drunk, and wrote a cartoon before passing out.
Unfortunately, this description is far more awesome sounding than the show deserves.
you give them to much credit. its more like they tried to join a campaign but was told to wait outside and drink alone. out of drunken boredom they wrote this story based on the tiny bit they could pick up on from afar. lol
@@jaythewolf7216 True. Very true
Women made this show. Like, all white woman crew
I want someone to actually play some Strixhaven chug a few beers and make a script now thanks to you.
My main issue is the art its not up to anime standards. If it looked more like A Certain Scinetific Railgun it would be fine.
I appreciate the comment on 'Mary Sue' and 'Edgy' being flat criticisms that looks into author intent, rather than criticisms on the work itself. As a strong proponent of the concept of The Death of the Writer, I sometimes forget about what I believe in and zoom in on Authorial Intent instinctively when seeing particularly bad media. Thanks for the well articulated reminder.
I kinda have an idea on what they maybe wanted to do with the rainy days episode plot between Parsley and Thyme.
It possibly could have been the fact that Parsley was one of the people that was frozen in stone and Thyme feels like she can't have friends because it made her lose focus enough not only to have the water taken but also almost lost her friend.
So after they save Parsley she realize she lost focus and decides to not only continue on her quest but also try and cut off ties with her friends. Especially with the fact the two friends that had been together since they were kids also broke up, it could lead to a confirmation bias for Thyme that friendships don't last anyway so why waste time on them.
28:58 I can actually see how Sage could've felt that way about girls' friendships being deeper that kinda make sense. Since back at home her closest (and back then possibly only) friend was a girl and once they enrolled in this school most of her other friends were girls too, her igronace could have come from the lack of expirience with socializing outside of her small circle. Like if she grew up in a really small town being really close to only one girl her whole life, she could legitemetly have a pretty narrowed view on how relashionships work, especially once that have people of different genders
Problem is, how did she make a comparison to male friendships, if she never had a male friend?
This would also make sense if sage was reveled to be a closeted lesbian. What she thought was super deep friendship was her actually being in love with rose. Hence why when snapdragon brought it up she started rethinking everything because she'd never considered it before. She was so unreasonably healous of rose liking aster because SHE likes rose.
Don't know why but Tree-TSD caught me completely off guard and absolutely killed me in the middle of work.
Idea regarding Snap's name: He came from a Viking/DnD Barbarian style village, so his name is meant to be taking a destiny. Snapdragon, a person strong enough to snap a dragon in half. It could play into what he sees Strength as, due to him clearly being more of a Rogue or Duelist that would specialize in a lighter form of combat. Think the sniper from the TF2 comics.
Exactly
That would be cool. But let's be honest, it's just to fit with the plant motif the rest of the characters have with their names.
@@SymphoniaFly well, duh. But I was trying to find an in-universe reason for him to be called that. I additionally thought that it could play into a rift between Snap and his Dad(if you really wanna do parental issues for the entire cast) as he isn't leaning into his destiny. It could even be a reason for him and Sage to fight. She accidentally killed a dragon and feels bad about it, when he's been trying to make his dad proud by doing the same for \years\ with no success.
What I found most lacking in the way the show treats trans issues is how transitioning with magic supposedly fixes everything like social ties don't even exist.
Transitioning is inherently complicated because gender roles have such an important status in society, even if there was a potion that could magically transform you within a day you still have to deal with everyone you ever met reacting to you breaking the role they first assigned to you. A Potion won't help you deal with any of the social repercussions.
What they did do good though is how snapdragon is still unsure about their gender identity, only being aware that their current one doesn't quite sit right. Not just because that appeals to a broader audience, but mainly because realizing you're trans doesn't necessarily mean knowing which gender you have, but first of all that you have a different gender than you are currently assigned. Part of the journey then is to find out what you are most comfortable as. Which the magic potion again wouldn't really help with, although knowing about the Option might be comforting.
But in context of the story Snapdragon is still coming to terms with not being their assigned gender, just telling them that there is this Potion doesn't even help them, they'd need more in the way of advice on how to actually experiment with their gender role and deal with the associated societal problems.
Also why does almost nobody even know about the Magic Potion that can completely change the way you look?
That block puzzle is depressing. It's magic, at least change something. Like what if there was a block in the blank space? But cause of magic you can still swap it
Good point, also at the end when snapdragon is done with his rant on guy's relationships and girl's relationships maybe make him just complete the puzzle with one spell because that shows he was slowing down for sage because he wanted to talk to her but he drops the act when he realizes that it's a fruitless endeavor, that reinforces the idea that snap has a crush on sage and that sage isn't good with new magic
For the record, I think the evil purple fire is saying “we knew you’d balk” which is a word I’ve seen written a few times but never said aloud. For those unfamiliar it basically means to be unwilling to take an action/follow through
1:29:03 "I don't feel very manly right now, so I'm going to beat the shit out of you until I do." is actually the most metal line ever and if i dont see a trans male character say exactly that at some point im gonna riot
I’ll use that line for my story, then.
Wish the show had been more specific on Old and New Magic. Maybe have old magic be connected to nature and runes/shrines that needs time to develop like plants while New Magic could be like an allegory for industrialism with it being much more accessible, flashier, and quicker to use but also harming the environment.
I really want a rewrite of this show now, like the stuff you did with Avengers Endgame. Feels like there's a lot of potential in this concept that the writing just messes up.
Well there's nothing stopping you
I call these types of stories "prompt stories" they give you an Idea for a concept but leave enough space for you too fill in the gaps
@@airplanes_aren.t_real I obviously meant a rewrite by him, I want to see what he would come up with, how he would fix it.
@@alyastastic oh okay, same tbh, he should probably do writing streams or podcasts about his stories as a side hustle because I really want to see his writing process
This show sound like someone’s first draft, a string of events that just happens.
36:18
god, thank you. This whole thing just kills me. I used to be very deeply involved in left movement and often felt like many things they approved and you couldn't question were a bit extreme. I am glad someone is calling it out.
I've been so stupid. I've been comparing my ideas and writing to well-established media without acknowledging how much thought and work went into making them and thinking that I was subpar/an idiot without any talent. Thank you for reminding me that those stories didn't just appear out of nothing like I (somehow) believed.
I literally yelled, "OH!!! THE SECOND ONE?!?!?" out loud when I saw this was out, and I couldn't be more delighted with the finished video!! What top-notch work. I've been trying to help my non-writer friends get better at writing for YEARS, and I always tell them it's not enough just to identify a story flaw, like "this moment feels shallow." You need to identify WHY it's a flaw (for example, "we have background context for one character in this moment but not the other"), and then how to FIX it ("earlier in this episode, we need to smoothly give the audience background context on the other character so the moment between the two of them later doesn't feel shoehorned in"). Most critiques have NO CLUE how to do that; you do it masterfully.
Also, a friendly word of advice: never reply to the haters! Not the people offering constructive criticism; you seem to do well in listening fairly to them- but responding to a comment by any level of jerk or idiot who claims to speak for an ENTIRE community, or who obviously hasn't written anything in their lift, or whatever the issue may be- if you respond to them, they've already won. They've wasted your precious time. Don't let them win.
I actually disagree with the point made at 5:09 comparing High Guardian and She-Ra’s multiple characters dealing with parental acknowledgment. Bc in the case of She-Ra I think it’s a very deliberate and important narrative choice. Hordak, Shadow Weaver and Catra are meant to explore the cycle of abuse, the fact that they all deal with the same issue is a deliberate examination of how abuse perpetuates itself. And with Catra it’s shown how she lashes out and unleashes the pain she receives from Shadow Weaver onto Scorpia and Entrapta etc. Same with Hordak. With Guardian Spice there isn’t this themeing, it’s just un-creativity in character creation.
Also at 5:18 “Sibling,” 💀💀💀 they KISS at the end lmao
Alright, I’m gonna give up all of my credibility and see if I can win a spot onto cursed comments.
The advantages of having a *step-sibling.* 😏
Also you took the words right out of my mouth.
Also four characters dealing with various levels and variety of "parental" abuse, esp when... It's the same parental figure for three of them is not that much when you look at what a small sliver of the cast that is.
Also tossing hordak and his clone blues in with adora, catra, and micah feels weird. Like they're all dealing with abuse, but hordaks is more like that of cult brainwashing then familial.
@@RenaDeles I don’t really understand what you are trying to say in the first part?
@@monatorap6207 I'm going to assume that Rena meant that thoze four characters deal with various levels and types of parental abuse, and even if they were all the same, it would still just be 3 or 4 characters out of a pretty large cast of characters.
@@Birthday888 ah thank you, I got the gist but the wording was throwing me off
The irony that in the same episode that Aster is introduced and dismissed where his sole defining trait is oh he is a misogynist asshole and that's bad is the episode where Sage goes on what is effectively a sexist rant without there being any real consequences for her thoughts on this and this not being portrayed as a bad quality like it is for Aster nor something that she as a main character needs to learn from is telling. Both about the writing staff's bias as an all female team and the amount of thought and effort that goes into the series.
It could even be spun into a hey she needs to unlearn some of her bigoted conservative views she was taught by her mom who experimented when she was young and wasn't always so "conservative" I would still think it's trite political bullshit, but at least it would indicate the behaviour is wrong not just excusing what is arguably worse behaviour that in the very same behaviour that is roundly condemned all through the episode when Aster does it to a far lesser degree and would show a character flaw that she can learn from and experience character growth.
It could also be something that says something about Rosemary since both of the characters in the entire series that she seems to show any romantic attraction to seem to hold outdated bigoted and sexist views just regarding the opposite sex. However again none of this is explored and be potentially something that would require character growth.
Like it could be excused if there were a few episodes between the storylines and it could just be dismissed as oh that just wasn't the focus of the episode and it slipped by that this directly contradicts the way we treated a similar but inverted situation earlier in the season. However, when this occurs in the very same episode it becomes telling when this either is just missed by the entire team or worse could just be indicative of their actual beliefs. Something not helped by the twitter history of what is pretty much the main/lead writer on the show.
I would loved it if professor karoway was the inventor of the transition magic. It would show that karoway is an incredible magic user and you could tie it in to that he used new magic to make it, and how new magic is flexible but not perfect since he has to take a potion every month.
Reading off the Wikipedia characters is a really good description of on of the issues with High Guardian Spices trans characters. It actually plays really well into what I’d describe as a problem as well in fantasy genres I’d call Cat Girl racism. Where the racism allegory is told through expressions that lesson the blow of real world racism. (Like for instance everyone who is discriminated against is a catgirl) Wiki Trans Characters is a similar problem where you take the real life issues that trans people face, and water them down to something you could read on a wiki page about trans identity. The problem isn’t that you tried to depict racism or transphobia. The problem is that in the series it is watered down in such a way that it’s not impactful
This reminds me of how, in "Homestuck", there is a character who is supposed to be in the right that claims women are oppressed in troll (an alien race in the story) society. Except, gender is completely irrelevant to the average troll to point it doesn't impact reproduction. In addition, the ruler of troll society is ALWAYS female. It's impossible for there to be a male ruler.
49:50 I suspect the word is “baulk/balk”, as in: “hesitate or be unwilling to accept an idea or undertaking.”
But the voice acting and audio mixing in this show is so middling/poor, that I can’t be sure.
For some reason I keep forgetting Cal’s actually Parnell’s cousin and they could have done something like that - make Parnell talk to Snapdragon about his own experience maybe coz Parnell is kinda a foil to Snap.
I absolutely LOVE how you characterized Caraway, now he's an interesting character that is super content with risking stuff and feels change is good (honestly I really love that character type)
12:30 An idea I came up with that would improve the scene with story law is that the magic wands call to their owners so he will curse the whole room with a lethargy spell except the person choosing the item. When he goes to leave they ask why and he explains that frequent exposure to the same curse can carve it into your soul making it permanent but it takes years of constant exposure to do so. This hints at magic radiation (which I think magic rot was essentially fallout from new magic) also explains why he just leaves them alone in the shop. Could also lead to a funny scene where the pink one falls unconscious and even after breaking the spell the shop owner is worried to re-enter the room until they wake her up.
Doubly explains Slime boy's lethargy, because he's been exposed to so much sleepy radiation that he's just *like that* now
I prefer calling backstories “achronal storytelling” when working on ‘em. Treating it as part of the overall narrative structure allowes me to focus on not only giving one character a backstory, but giving insight into other characters involved in their backstory as well. It’s also important to make it plot relevant, or to set up necessary context for the time jump to feel organic. One of my least favorite cliches is framing a backstory as something a character’s remembering, even when it’s viewed in 3rd person just like the rest of the story.
"You can't add a character to the story and be like 'this is my precious baby and nothing bad should ever happen to them'."
This. I feel awful about a lot of the stuff I end up putting my characters through, some of it occasionally gives me pause to think if I should really be doing that to them. But at the end of the day it fits in line with the world they're in and shows that no one is safe. Even if I love these characters and they're the main focus of the story the last thing I would want is for it to seem like they have some barrier preventing them from ever having anything truly bad happen to them while all the minor, side or background characters have the horrible shit.
just gonna add to the surge of comments about the trans stuff
i'm trans and i think you've done a really fantastic job of covering this, even if i disagreed that it was forced (which i don't) i wouldn't understand where people are coming from
like, critiquing a piece of media that a trans character was in doesn't make you transphobic. critiquing the way they were written doesn't make you transphobic.
i don't walk into rooms and announce i'm trans and i'm not even at the point where i could be perceived as female if i don't do that. like i'm sure there are people out there who DO open conversations with "i'm trans" but it's not ever something i would do and it's not ever something most of my friends would do, it doesn't seem right to have it be the Main Thing Trans Characters Must Do
That tip on using tangibles to help create these engaging scenarios was super useful - thanks!
1:19:55 I think it's just that the memories are sepia that makes her hair look brown rather than her hair actually having been brown
About the trans/dysphoria arch:
The only possible way the "look-out thing" makes sense if Caraway purposely pulled Snap away for a useless task they didn't need to do was to have a talk with them probably cause they recognized their behavior as dysphoria, something they once acted like before transitioning, as a way to help them. But that would require foreshadowing that Teach was noticing by trying to talk with them or becoming more aware of them then others, maybe even like tying back to the spy thing and make Snap suspension. It would make it natural and even more emotional for the characters
This shows reflects a lot the "mean words are more violent than physical violence" mentality that we see a lot of nowdays...