What Could 50 US Army Rangers Accomplish at the Alamo?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- If you sent a 50-man detachment of US Army Rangers back in time to the siege of the Alamo, with the intention of defending it, or defeating the Mexican army, what would they be able to accomplish? In this video, I tackle that exact hypothetical question as best as I possibly can with an analysis of the arms and tactics of the time compared to the same from today. Needless to say, it's not much of a competition, but watch the video so I can explain why.
Other Alternate History Battles: • Alternate History Battles
The Battle of the Alamo (February 23 - March 6, 1836) was a pivotal event and military engagement in the Texas Revolution. Following a 13-day siege, Mexican troops under President General Antonio López de Santa Anna reclaimed the Alamo Mission near San Antonio de Béxar (modern-day San Antonio, Texas, United States), killing most of the occupants. Santa Anna's refusal to take prisoners during the battle inspired many Texians and Tejanos to join the Texian Army. Motivated by a desire for revenge, as well as their written desire to preserve a border open to immigration and the importation and practice of slavery, the Texians defeated the Mexican Army at the Battle of San Jacinto, on April 21, 1836, ending the rebellion in favor of the newly formed Republic of Texas.
I promise you 100% that if the boys had any pre mission knowledge of their assigned task, not a single one would be going in with a standard fighting loadout. They absolutely would be packing as much extra ammo into every possible place they could. They also would probably not stay in the fort. Especially at night. One piece of kit you missed was NVGs which would basically be cheating, but standard issued kit is standard issued kit.
I don’t know any Ranger that EVER went into combat with 7 mags… 12+1 is the actual minimum loadout… usually more.
@@archer721i wasnt even a ranger and we each had at least 300 5.56 in mags and everyone would also carry drums for the mg’s.
I've ran 7 mags but that is with a squirter interdiction loadout and had all the extras stripped from the kit to make it easier to chase the enemy at 11000ft. Total Kit weight was still close to 90lbs though.@@archer721
And at least one guy would bring a tomahawk
@@jonathanmoody6951 - no doubt about it! 😎👍
One major factor that you don't mention is every single Ranger would have night vision. Not only could they accurately shoot in the dark , they could go on small raids that would terrify the Mexicans. I have one more word...claymores! The psychological effect would be devastating. Who really needs M-4's? 😀
Unfortunately in the scenario laid out in the video, Claymores along with other party favorites like the Carl G have been restricted….. But that wouldn’t stop Rangers from outside the wire at night to raise other mayhem!
🤡🤡🤡🤣🤣🤣
They would have some guys from mortar platoon with them also so they'd be taking incoming day and night. Also access to drones lol so they might not even need to shoot anyone.
I was thinking the same thing. The rangers would make seriously psychologically damaging nighttime raids on the Mexican forces.
I think his point is, the battle wouldn't last until nightfall. And I agree. The snipers would win this battle single handedly. Once the Leadership fell, the rank and file would run. Done. Over.
I was an extra in this movie. I played a Mexican soldier during the battle of San Jacinto when Santana lost. We had training on the flint muskets. I was 22 and got paid 125 a day and fed 3 good meals a day. It was an awesome experience.
Sad that the set burned down. How much fun did you have?
Awesome 👍 I'm in a documentary and got pretty much nothing for it 😂
That's awesome. I was an extra in the made for TV civil war movie Andersonville in the mid 90s when I was about 17. I played a Union prisoner of war. Everyone took it very seriously and the set almost had a re-enactment kind of feel. I got there at like 4 or 5 AM, got set up in makeup and wardrobe and then sat in the camp all day long smoking and eating snacks and stuff between takes. It was a really fun time but super long days. I don't remember exactly how much I was paid but it seemed like a lot for a high school kid and helped me out with bills and such later on in college. Unforgettable experience for sure.
@@teamtacotime I remember that film. We watched it in the army absolutely cool 😎
Bravo to you for reenacting the history of our great state
Make it more of a challenge. Old school Rangers from WW2, 50 WW2 era Rangers all carrying the old 8 shot semi-auto M1 Garand plus every Ranger carrying as much 30-06 ammo as they can carry.
Would still be a turkey shoot as those rangers would have accurate, long range semi automatic firearms, Browning Automatic Rifles, M1918 .30 cal machine guns, .45 caliber 1911 pistols, grenades, Hawkins grenades, potentially radios and flamethrowers and submachine guns.
@@hunterkiller232134not very sure about the flamethrowers, but potentially yes. They also probably would win as well
Ranges all day everyday twice on Sundays
Replace the Garand with BARs and Johnson Rifles and now we’re talking
Pacific Marines didn't have any problems stacking bodies in WW2 vs Bonzai charges .. Neither did the US Army during Korea vs Chinese human wave/attacks.. vs M1 Garands.
I was in the military and have seen what a M2 could do to vehicles and small boats. It would rip to shreds massed lines of advancing soldiers. It would just be a matter of how much 50 cal ammo they had.
50 rangers would easily beat the Mexican Army. Fact is they are not robots and modern weaponry would make mincemeat out of any Army of the period and the Mexican Army was not particularly well trained.
For a good depiction of what a .50 BMG would do to massed foot soldiers, check out Rambo (Part 4), where he goes into Burma/Myanmar to accompany some hired former US and Australian SAS mercenaries to rescue some well-meaning Christian missionaries intend on bringing relief to ethnic Karen villagers being attacked by the Burmese corrupt military dictatorship government’s ‘Tatmadaw’ Army. Rambo is able to kill a Burmese soldier manning an M2 mounted in the back of a Jeep and liquify the Jeep’s driver with said M2, and then goes on the offensive just at the moment that the now-captured mercenaries are about to be executed by Burmese soldiers, with Karen rebel soldiers coming in near the end to join the fight. Storyline and action-wise, it is the best Rambo installment, with plenty of Burmese dialogue with subtitles spoken, even some by Rambo himself ( which I can appreciate given that I have traveled to Burma/Myanmar 4 times and can speak a little bit of Burmese).
If they had 50 calibre at all
If they only had their M4 with plenty of ammo, they would wipe out the Mexican army with machine gun fire, heck 5 men probably could
Actually the Mexican army of that time was one the most highly regarded infantry armies of that time. Highly trained and organized. They still would have gotten completely stomped. However, that particular time period the Mexican army was well respected.
I was an extra on the movie. Walking around the set was incredible. They told us it was mostly Styrofoam. Thornton made a point to come hang out with the extras a few times, and was friendly and engaging. As a Texas History teacher, they did a good job considering you have to tell a complex story in a couple hours, as the video points out.
That's cool man.
That kinda reminds me of the Twilight Zone where a tank crew from the Montana National Guard is on maneuvers near the Little Big Horn Battlefield so they grab their guns and go off to die with the 7th Cavalry armed with M1911Colt.45 pistols and M3"Grease Guns"SMG.
Hypothetically,they might've fared better if they'd gone into battle with their M3"Stuart"tank instead.
You should see Billy Bod Thornton in Blood In, Blood Out.
I was also an extra on the movie. All the extras used to go behind the dumpster and jack each other off while screaming "WE ARE SUPERSTARS!"
Y’all smoke some of the Ol wacky tobacco with Billy Bob? 😎🤙
In his book on Texas history, T.R. Ferenbach described the men of the Alamo this way: At that time in history the most dangerous predator on the planet was an American froniersman with his rifle. The Mexican army ran into 200 of them at the Alamo. British Army tactical doctrine at the time stated that attacking American troops behind established barricades would result in catastrophic casualties among the attacking force.😮
Cool story, bro.
@@leonardosantuario3346 Look up the Battle of New Orleans from the War of 1812.
@@Iwillfigureoutanamelater don't care. Nerd.
The Battle of Alamo had more to do with how many cannons were at the disposal of the defenders than any kind of frontier grit. Those cannons were the very reason Santa Anna was raiding the Alamo, and the inspiration behind the "Come and Take It" flag...
T.R. Ferenbach's assessment should be taken with a grain of salt. He was a proud Texan and has a reputation for his mythologizing of Texas history. He also never claimed to be a historian, but rather a admirer of it. Not saying he's wrong, just saying to add some sodium to his characterization.
Ultimately, Rangers would be able to send out 5 man teams to DEVASTATING effect inside enemy camps at night. If they didn't leave the wall, the shock of their firepower would have them leaving! Good description you played out!
So I'm a certified history teacher, I'm sitting on my couch not one mile away from the Alamo, though I used to live in Houston very close to the San Jacinto monument where Santa Ana was viciously defeated by the Texas army. Just relaxing after a day of school. And your video pops up, I could not have enjoyed that more, what a perfect thing to get to listen to. I feel like it was made just for me.
I once read a sci-fi book from the 1980's, though I can't remember the name. But it sent mercenaries back to defend the Alamo from contemporary times. It was fascinating
Anyone find the title of that book?
Remember The Alamo!-Kevin Randle & Robert Cornett (1980) (Time Mercenaries Series)
Got me thinking of the game Darkest Days. You're a soldier fighting alongside Custer until you're wounded and rescued by time travelers who recruit you to help protect the timeline.
I remember reading this book and it was a good book. The soldiers that went back were all Vietnam vets, yes they brought modern weapons but the outcome was still the same.....just ordered this book on a online discount book store, there are two more books in this series. Remember Gettysburg and Remember the little big horn.
I remember this very well. I think Jerry Pournelle had an excerpt in one of his There Will Be War books from that novel.
Rangers running external patrols could more than likely hold the Mexican Army from getting within sight of the Alamo.
You don’t need 50 with that kind of fire power. Maybe a dirty dozen Rangers.
its obnoxious when you think about it. increases by factors when thinking about the amount of resupply/ability to MOVE@@tomaswalsh-gomez8042
This was my first thought. Using the Alamo as a fire support base for Artillery, raiding at night, constant ambushes, the Mexican Army would never be able to get close. As much as I love the M2, I would actually drop it and make sure that the Rangers were outfitted with a SAW in each fire team, an M320 in each fire team, and as much ammo and demo as they could carry. Using the Alamo as a supply depot as well for food and water, their flat out wouldn't be a Mexican Army. This video while detailed, does not take into account the modern tactics that even in defense the Rangers would use. Also, there wouldn't be 10 Snipers, but you could easily find 4 designated Marksmen and that would be more than suffice.
@@billzade8158 the M2 isn’t even necessary, it’s more effective against soft and light vehicles, which the Mexican Army would not have. The space and logistical weight can be saved for more man-portable infantry supplies.
I know it’s the idea for the video, but like someone said above, Take 10-15 75th guys and the Mexicans wouldn’t have gotten to see the Alamo. If only the US would have backed Texas quicker, it wouldn’t have been a possibility either (with the same era men). We walked through to Mexico City like it was a training ruck. We should have kept it then. Maybe the border issues would be entirely different today.
Crockett was a congressman, not a senator.
In those days, a Texican was an Anglo-American resident of Texas; a Tejano (pronounced Tehano) was a Mexican resident of Texas. Both types were in the Alamo.
Today, we are Texans.
Interesting video -- thank you!
Senators are congressmen. Congress is a unit in the legislative branch which includes the US house and the US senate. So, US Representatives of the House and members of the US Senate are both congressmen.
No, a congressman is a member of the U.S. (or state) House of Representatives. A senator is not. Both are member of Congress, but only those of the House are titled, refered to, and addressed as congressman. No House member is entitled to be called senator.
They are not the same.@@knowledgeking2155
Nobody says a congressman referring to a member of the senate. Although in theory you could. Most importantly in response the author called a representative a senator so the OP is correct in common vernacular and in regards to the author.
You mean he was a Representative. They (Senators and Representatives) are all Congressmen.
@@knowledgeking2155Colloquial language is a real thing in linguistics. Congressman is near always used as the title for a representative your just being pedantic for no reason
Let's not forget the true story of Dan Daly defending his position single handedly against 300 attackers with a single machine gun and a bolt action rifle.
Probably bullshit, as are many things
It was 200. He was also mostly written off as dead because nobody could hear him shooting anymore. Nah...he only stopped shooting because he killed them all lol
Some Ghurkas at the Alamo would suck for mexico. When 10 dudes who are all 5ft to 5 ft4 start carving up mexicans with their knives, wed see that they aint bout that life
yea but most of that were melee fighters
Yeah running face first into a machine gun is never a good idea
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist4 well Daly was defending mostly missionaries so there's that. But you should look into other translations as the NIV has some problems.
I think this question mostly comes down to how much ammo you allow the modern troops to have.
50 Rangers with at least 200rnds each is 10,000 rounds. and shooting single shot at extended ranges for much of that... with snipers hitting commanders.....and you show them what a M2 and M240B can do at 500yd, and the rest would flee in a hurry.
He said a combat loadout (which in my expieremce, most guys carry a lot more than that, but for sake of argument we'll stick to it)
That works out to 210rds for each guy carrying an M4
800-1000rds for the M240 machine guns
For the M2 it's harder to say but they would likely have at least 5-600 rounds
Any way you slice it, even if the rangers carried half of their typical combat load. That still spells overwhelming casualties for the mexican army
Normal load out of 30 rounds times 7 mags = 210 rounds per soldier. That's 10500 rounds. And that is just the m-4's. So even if you only hit a target half the time, that's 2500 rounds left over. Add the machine guns and maybe 1000 rounds per times 4 = few survivors. On top of that on the off chance they ran out and left even a thousand then the hand to hand comes into play. Ballistic armor and advanced training equals maybe a few ranger casualties.
If you take the evidence of San Jacinto you'll see how quick the Mexican army is to route so I would think by the time the first 1000 rounds had been expended and the battlefield is Covered in Mexican Manuto the routing would be at Terror Levels all the way back to Mexico City!!! 🤠👍
@mr.browning7.624
Agreed... US Troopers will stuff extra mags, boom, and chow into anything and everything they can wedge it into.
Don't be surprised when the skinny kid that looks like he's hung like a rhino reaches into his skivvies and yanks out a 5.56 magazine, a pouch of MRE peanut butter and a frag...
As a Brit I found it quite interesting when I visited the Alamo that there is a plaque in honour of over a dozen English and Scots etc, who fought and died there.
Check out the story of Los San Patricios. You'll likely find it interesting.
took a piss at the alamo thought it was the toilet
Correct. There is also a flag on display for each US state the defenders came from. Many of the Alamo defenders had come from immigrant families who had taken the opportunity to get free land which the Mexican government had offered for families moving to Texas.
In 1833 Santa Anna became President of Mexico and decided he was going to strictly enforce Mexico's laws against the settlers in Texas, rather than allow them the "variances" the former government had under an agreement in 1824. Such as _requiring_ all of them to be Catholic.
The Texicans, at first, only wanted to be restored to the 1824 agreement and didn't seek independence. In fact the "Alamo Flag" is the Mexican flag with "1824" emblazoned on it.
It was Santa Anna's brutal treatment of the Texicans, particularly at the battle of Goliad, before the Alamo, that pushed them into declaring independence.
My great great great grand father was James Nolan and he was Scott who died at the Alamo. Most of the defenders were from the south and would have mostly British ancestors.
@@GSXRI300karma is a thing … when it catches up with you, please remember your comments here.
Rangers are also elite infiltrators and tacticians. Odds are many of them wouldn't even stay at the Alamo for the defense strategy. They would use less mass of maneuver tactics and more flank, pincer, surprise, and insider threat tactics...which would probably be even more effective than what you described.
One thing that wasn’t mentioned that would be a huge factor is night vision. They’d be able to fight 24/7 and would easily be able to sally out a fire team or more to destroy cannons, target HVTs, and could just cause a general chaos. Honestly if it came down to it, the Mexican army wouldn’t ever see the Alamo because the rangers would attack them on the march, soldiers with no sleep would desert en masse
...the other thing not mentioned is the close air support by two Apache attack helicopters, just so they make it home for dinner.
What if they didn’t have any of their weapons and technology?
@@TheDogGoesWoof69 ….a blind dog with a note in it’s mouth could take over Mexico, any anyway, soon enough they’ll all have crossed the border regardless
@@Adam-ze1jwI think it still would have been the same result. Even with primitive technology the grasp of maneuver warfare and unconventional tactics could have led to a victory. Using these methods the rangers could have possibly destroyed the enemies will to fight before having to kill many of them
@@cspace1234nz insufficient firepower. They'd need at least six AC130's to make a proper impression. Or one MLRS system, to keep things semi-obsolete.
Although, a 120 mm mortar would even the field quickly, if they were allowed to approach.
But, OP was right, Rangers don't wait to meet and greet, they greet in advance. Shockingly so, by design, they are shock troops after all.
Against modern forces, mass maneuvers would take adjusting tactics on the fly - with only a basic combat load, so it's even money, Tora Bora ugly style. And in Tora Bora, we had 2500 Afghans supporting us.
No, wasn't there, friends were, I was assigned elsewhere.
War is never about killing the most, that's amateur play. It's about destroying the will to fight, the desire to fight, leaving continuing hostilities an exercise in destroying that which the one warring is trying to protect.
So, one engages their supply trains, leaving them low on ammo they're not carrying and SOL for food. Then, erode command and communications, in that era, commanders wore colorful outfits that stood out, signals were flag and bugle.
Only after do you inflict serious pain, if they're still approaching.
Lower ordinance and ammunition expense, greater benefit and well, at the early stage, use as much of theirs as possible to inflict damage. Black powder of that era wasn't exceptionally stable, oils and other flammables not sequestered like we do today.
There was a book on a what if for the Alamo. A squad from Vietnam ended up going back in time to the Alamo. Claymores, grenades, and all.
What’s it called?
Ya what is the name
@@harryjoe860 Remember the Alamo! by Kevin D. Randle, Robert Cornett.
There was a 3 set by the same author, Remember the Alamo, remember Gettysburg & remember little big horn. Authors Randell & Cornett. The Gettysburg one gave me a better feel for the battle than I’d had before.
I've always wondered how Pickett's Charge would have fared if they had close air support
Could you imagine a spooky just hanging rounds down on open field 😂
There's actually a book that examines what would happen if 100,000 AK47's and ammo got sent back in time to the Confederates. It's called "Guns of the South" by Harry Turtledove
@@generalkayoss7347read it it’s pretty good
Honestly pickets charge might have been different if only they hadn't changed to different shell fuses just before the battle. That alone caused all there preparatory fire to be useless.
they didn't ? WHAT ?
"what are we doing, amigo? why aren't we charging?"
"shhh! we have to wait for el general to make the order!"
"speaking of which... where IS he?"
There was an episode of "The Twilight Zone" where an armor unit was exercising near the Little Big Horn River & a tank crew heard fighting so they went to investigate & found themselves fighting along Colonel Custer's cavalry battalion.
Their chain of command was wondering where that tank had gotten to as they were not answering the radio when someone noticed the names of the crew with their modern rank(1950s) had appeared on the monument to the US Army troops who'd lost their lives in that battle.
Yes but the tank ran out of fuel and the tankers went to battle with just the arms they carried on the tank.
They could have taken the .30 calber machine gun.
@@Fokkerc1 could have been a long time since I saw that one.
was a good episode
The Indians took out there tank with arrows
The use of close order formations against modern day automatic rifles or machine guns would make things much more easy for the defenders and if mexicans tried to get closer during the night, the US rangers would have the night vision advantage while the precision of mexicans would drop significatly.
Even at night, the Rangers would still out rang the Mexicans... So they would be falling soon as they start to form a line.. The Mexican cannons would be in range too so the Mexican troops seeing there cannons being death traps would play havoc on there morale.... And the machine guns would chew up the Mexican lines to.. They would also see the tracers coming from the machine guns at night better so they could see a few places spitting out fire and raining death on there lines...
Communist Chinese tried that in Korea War , the ending was ugly
It would be like shooting fish in a barrel.
@@actionjksn @ or stampede the ants
When I was around 11 or 13 I had this same idea and we joked that if you came back to present time after the altered battle of the Alamo, you’d just come back to Texas.
Not somewhere in the United States on the planet Earth. You’d just be in “Texas”.
Planet Texas.
I have thought about similar what if kinda scenarios about the Alamo. However, my thoughts were mainly what the original defenders could have accomplished with repeating arms. If they had M4s instead of flintlocks, it would have been totally different. But even making it more “fair”, if they would have just had lever action repeaters, I don’t think they would have lost. I even thought about something like “what if” they all had 10-22s and plenty of long rifle ammo. They may not have killed all of the Mexican army, but there would have been so many casualties shot full of .22 that they wouldn’t have been much in the mood for fighting.
Hell, just having Minié balls in combustible paper cartridges would have been a major advantage. The defenders would have had the rate of fire of a smoothbore musket even if they all used rifles, which are typically difficult to muzzle-load.
The numbers at the Alamo were pretty close; a group of 50 guys from 30 years later armed with Henry or Sharps rifles might have been able to turn the tide of the battle. Just think what a group of 50 guys with lever guns could unleash at assault range.
Maybe a couple of Gatling guns at the corners....
How is 180 to 4000 close??? How exactly would 50 more men with 7 shot lever guns ( I assume you meant Spencer, not Sharps) change anything??? You still have a company size unit taking on a regular army corps. Civil War era ratio for shots taken to kills ranged in the 60-100 range. At that rate you still need 250,000 cartridges or 5000 per man. That is 32 lbs. of shells per man.
Those weapons were available in the US Civil War. Name one action where a platoon or company size force with 50 repeating rifles defeated a whole army corps. There were none. Why do you suppose that is?
Close? Not even.
@@johnbreitmeier3268 Santa Anna had less than 2500men total.
That's not a Corps
@@CS-zn6pp You did not watch the video, did you. For this silly exercise Santa Ana was given 4000 troops. I am playing within the rules stated. None of this is sane. I will cede you that 4000 is more of a corps size and 2500 a brigade, BUT it does NOT change the problem. It is the numbers that make the difference, not what you call the unit. Bowie called his 30 volunteers a regiment but there were still only 30. You can call the Rangers an Army Group and there are still only 50. When did you ever hear of a Company sized unit (The combined Alamo and Ranger group of 230) or just a platoon of 50 defeating either a whole brigade or a division??
It saddens me greatly that this amazing film did not do well at the theater. To this day it’s one of my top favorite movies of all time.
Yes, I agree with you entirely.
It's an excellent film, especially if you care at all about the history.
Great call!
Of course, I'd love to go back with just 20 of my people.
I worked with some serious bad @sses.
I don't need 50, just 20 that were trained with me. Trust me, Texas will be free! 👍🏻👍🏻😎😎
@@kiasax2 If it were possible we definitely should go back in time and make this happen. I may not have the experience that you and your friends do but I’m not a bad shot myself and would happily go with you guys to help out. I personally believe the changes that would result from such a outcome would be quite positive actually.
Mine as well. I absolutely love this film.
As someone who is related to Colonel Travis, this movie got me choked up at times.
I’m glad you mentioned “Overkill”. Because I doubt you would need more than 10 operators. And I don’t believe Santa Anna would have personally lived past the first 24 hours.
"That guy looks important."
"He's gonna look dead in a second."
24 minutes most likely 😂
@@DavidMedic447 24 minutes sounds reasonable to spot the leader if he wasnt sitting on a horse. If he is horseback I am thinking more in the 24 second range.
Lol, 24 hrs? He wouldn't last the initial engagement.
All you need is a middle schooler with his fathers hunting rifle. he could just stand on the barracks. then maybe some pistols at each corner. this would be so easy.
Considering weapons of that era were muzzle loading, Army Rangers with automatic weapons would have sounded like a million-man attack, and the Mexican army would have been panicked, running for their lives or surrendering in mass.
I know you were limiting modern explosives, but there would definitely be some 40mm on their kit for a defensive mission.
Not just 40mm but also a m3 RAAWS 84mm with he or hedp, and if someone sweet talked jsoc maybe some ADM rounds which would end any charge on the spot.
He limited all modern explosives. Lets face it, the shear amount of explosives carried as standard equipment in a 50 man ranger team would be enough to pretty much take over North America at that time.
@@jodyhannah5931it’s so hard to wrap your head around the advancement of weaponry we have made. A team of seals would probably run the independent colonies and build an empire
It warms my heart to know that I'm not the only person who has wondered this. Though personally I've wondered mostly what if 100 modern automatic rifles were dropped to the defenders of the Alamo.
There are 2 Sean's 1st half of them would look at them as if they were Monkey LOL and accidentally would kill half of eachother or they wouldn't use them.
2nd with them you drop off on Person to transfer Knowledge of usage of Rifles to them and Hope back over, now then you would have a good set up.
But then you would have to deal with aftermath of Future being so different. 🤣🤣🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
My thoughts 🤷🏻♂️
The only issue is though is ammo. The end is still defeat or retreat. Santa Ana has 8k troops, each ranger may have 6 to 10, 30rd mags. They will run out of ammo before Santa Ana would run out of troops.
@@domagojbeno388the idea that riflemen and infantrymen who were trained as marksmen from youth would look at a more advanced rifle as if they were a monkey is a fundamental misunderstanding of human intelligence. They would immediately recognize them for what they were and the potential for warfare they held. Our brains haven’t measurably developed in the last 30,000 years, much less the last 150.
I guarantee John Browning had a firmer grasp of physics and engineering than you do right now
You could send a crate of Rubik’s cubes to the court of Charlemagne and you’d find his courtiers would solve them at the same rate modern people do.
In the scenario 34 rangers would have 7+ magazines each for 7140 rounds. In reality the 16 machine gunners would also have their rifles and be able to share ammo.
That's not even accounting for the mg ammo
I think I Video Guy did say Once Mexican Soldiers Sow There High Ranking Officer's Die. There is a small chance they would stick around and fight. Plus he didn't go into Reco Side of thing's the damage with Them going behind enemy line and doing light Knife work as well. I think the would be OK to be honest LOL Modern Tip of Combat is and would Be ALIEN to man back in those day's.
As you know it is all done as a Gentleman's agreement Like we fight Chest to Chest and who has more wins!
Doing that today would be as bright as single Person charging with a pen knife a Squad of SEALs or any other SPEC OPS LOL🤷🏻♂️🤣🤣
A single sniper team would have won the battle on the first day that Santa Anna arrived as he and his command staff would have been targeted and eliminated. Cannoneers would have been eliminated as soon as they manned the cannon.
Don't be silly St Michael general of the heavenly host would fight for Mexico under orders from God and would use his flaming sword to smite any combatant as cowardly as a sniper out of hand before they had even unleashed thier first wicked shot.
I agree with you. If snipers took out command and control, it would be over with.
David Gemmell wrote a book called “Legend” which he said was greatly inspired by the story of The Alamo. While it doesn’t have modern soldiers in it I think it is a great ‘what if’ to that situation of being overwhelmingly outnumbered
Such a fun scenario to think about. I have to admit as a kid in the 60s, watching westerns on TV, my brothers and I often thought about such "what ifs". But in the world of 1960s kiddom thinking, our imaginations revolved around the world of "if they only had Tommy Guns".
The Maxim machinegun, which works almost exactly like modern machineguns, came out in 1884. During the height of the old west. So they had machineguns mack then too just not handheld like tommy guns
The M2 machine gun mentioned in this video has been around since world war II.
@@user-oy9zy4ds9mthe Gatling gun was manufactured starting in 1861. If the defenders had just two of those, the outcome would have been very different.
If the Texas Army would have been trained in Combat Reloading(for that era), the Mexican Army would have suffered many more casualties. I don't remember exactly but I think the women who stayed in the Alamo were helping with the flintlock reloading at one point.
@@actionjksn m2 been around since 1918 I believe
A couple of Jedi and a platoon of Clones
You're correct the Alamo wasn't strategically important to Santa Ana. However, it was strategically important to General Sam Houston. Colonel Travis' suicide plan to defend the Alamo was to stall and preoccupy Santa Ana and his army long enough which gave General Houston time to rally troops and mobilize the Texas militia.
Just think if Santa Ana bypassed the Alamo except for a small group to pin the down , Then found and attacked a unprepared Sam Houston force. Later Mexico pieced land off a little at a time and Texas never happen.
Fairly
A lot of Myth Surrounds Houston’s Assembly of Force During and After The Alamo
The Propaganda Affects Were Glorious
And It Did Distract Santa Anna and His Immediate Army Immediately for a Good While per The Standard’s of The Time
But What I Remember Is Houston Didn’t Need It too Much in Terms Creating a Force
More of Moving a Force a Little and Preparing for Mexico to Come to Him
Resulting In The Little Dictator’s Capture and Release
Unfortunately that's a commonly held myth, the battle of the Alamo ddi nothing for Houston to gather an army. When the Alamo fell he only had a handful of men with him.
@@sgtfrank2590 It would still have happened. It's well understood that Mexico HAD to end up capturing New Orleans in order to maintain territory in the central area of North America. Anyone who controlled New Orleans was going to end up controlling the land that now makes up the US. New Orleans was needed to control the Mississippi River Basin and all of it's offshoots, and that would give total control the whole interior. Even if Mexico took Texas, they would end up losing it anyway because they never had a chance to take New Orleans.
I dont think there was any suicide plan, they felt they were going to be re-enforced and by the time they figured out that wasnt going to happen it was too late.
Psychologically, just sending in few Snipers to take out the higher command of the Santa Anna army (If not Santa Anna himself) would be so mind blowing to the enlisted , seeing just how far their weapons could effectively hit a target. Versus what they would witness from a weapon being fired at them from such a great distance.
not to mention that the officers would be dressed in elaborate uniforms and very easy to distinguish from a group.
Very true.... Or you could just wait until someone salutes a senior officer. The older that person looks, the more likely he is the most senior officer.
You want Psychological effect .. hear the bolt on a M2 Maduce locking back at night . And shear fire power of the .50 a lone . And even a near miss is deadly
@@jeffherdz I think the "Psychological" effect would prove to be a problem and have the opposite effect of wining the battle.
My reasoning is simply that you can't destroy an enemy if they don't come to battle.
Or in this case, flee from the battle before the Rangers could do enough damage to the army in mass.
Granted, if a sniper took out Santa Anna at the start, then the whole reason for the war would be null. But unless the Rangers use a strategy to keep the Mexican army in place to be destroyed (which isn't easy if the Rangers are stationary behind walls), the Alamo battle would be a none event for both sides.
@@anthonyhurst5898 erm, a near miss ain't deadly. Saw plenty of those, all kept on going.
It's a .50, not a fucking death ray, dammitall!
Might scare you to death, it won't actually kill you by missing by inches. Ever.
Physics wins, bullshit loses always.
The big flaw in the strategy suggested is that, other than maybe the .50 cal machine guns, you'd be better off keeping most of the Rangers outside of the alamo, with the squad machine guns split on flanks.
Actually with this force, you wouldn't even need the Alamo or fight defensively. Assuming the Rangers have night vision or infrared optics, they alone could have defeated Santa Anna's army. All they'd have to do is launch a night raid on the Mexican Army's camp and would likely rout the entire army.
The Rangers are best when they can maneuver, not to mention night actions. An old but tried and true tactic is to hit the enemy every night, so they cannot rest. Also if you can, destroy baggage and supply trains and cannons. An army the size the Mexican had, would not have been stopped by 50 Rangers holing up inside the Alamo. Unless they could bring a semi trucks worth of ammo, and spare guns.
Just consider what might've happened if the designated sniper of the hypothetical Ranger platoon had brought his M107 along to the party. One can only imagine the sheer terror and utter stunned shock to the Mexican troops seeing the illustrious leader Gen. Lopez de Santa Anna directing them one minute, then seeing his torso shattered into tiny bits of unrecognizable flesh and bone fragments, and his right arm flying off one way, his left arm going off in the opposing direction, and his head off to who knows where. Talk about psychological warfare, .50 BMG-style...
"Ma Deuce" firing Tracer rounds during a night attack forget it game over for the enemy!!!
My guy cannons with similar effective ranges and *superior* destructive force were most definitely a thing back then, and the exact scenario you are describing happened to more than one commanding officer on many a battlefield (though admittedly by walking shots or luck rather than precise aiming).
They would be neither shocked nor psychologically paralyzed by the event. AT MOST they would simply misattribute the kill to an enemy cannon instead of a high caliber rifle.
Now imagine if the mexican army had the same weapon lol 😂
For sure. The battle would have been over in about 15 minutes instead of 90. 1 Ranger equals 10-15 Mexican army troops of the time, even if they were equipped with modern arms. The Rangers would smash the assault to bits in no time. @@manueltrae713
Wouldn't have needed a .50 cal, a decent rifle in 7.62 NATO might have been able to do it. Field artillery of the time were around 1000 yards range, and Santa Ana was commanding from near his battery, to better direct their fire. A good modern sniper might well have been able to engage either Santa Ana himself, or the artillery crews.
I’d really like to see the impact of a single ranger in a medieval battle
not alot...ammo dependent weapon...even a heavy load out is 13 mags or 390 rounds and 4-8 hand grenades. so initial burst damage from the grenades and then single shots could account for as many as 500...an impressive number, but against an army of 8000 or more, its only a scratch...then they bite his knees off.
Zero significant effect.
They retreat from fear from the strange knight that killed swathes of their comrades with sound & fire...
In any one major battle, they would definitely turn the battle into slaughter. Medieval armies were a few/ bunch of rich knights and a shit ton of poor farmers and such making up the bulk. Once they start dropping like flies from 400 to 500 yards away they will lose the will to fight and run.
@@Rosivokyou're forgetting one thing, they can eliminate the officers, nobility, etc..... At range. That alone changes a lot for medieval armies.
I was in 2/75 from 2005-2011 and was a gunner and assistant gunner in C Co weapons squad and have personally hit targets at 600 yards with my m4, used the .50 at 800 yards, and while never in the sniper section but had buddies hitting targets at 1100+ yards regularly. Also, the K9 units would do a number on them. We'd also have a well equipped little bird that has a variety of munitions configurations. We used to have strykers with mounted .50s and Mk-19 grenade launchers.
This wouldn't have been a war, it would have been a fun training exercise.
Or a walk in a desert.
Yet you still got your asses handed to you by the Vietnamese. Try again, Ranger.
2/75th
96-03
11C
Add us and our mortars and it's over in minutes.
hell. just a platoon from my battery at Fort Sill during BCT would devastate that force. after are forge of course. we had roughly only 32 people yes all with M4s.
but then you take in are command team. Staff Sergeant Hairston was infantry, trained us all in combat maneuvers and my platoon i would be so full to say was the best in are battery with them.
Staff Sergeant Loth was a very very smart man who was highly skilled in anything artillery. he was actually the one training us the most though. and was the one who gave us the most indepth training.
then are Platoon Sergeant. Sergeant First Class Butto. man was insane. big scary korean man. drove trucks as an 88M. while he didnt train us directly very often he was one of the most respected there and also didnt help he was recovering from knee surgery at the time of my cycle.
while we were only second best in the overall accuracy we had 27 hit sharpshooter in qualifications.
everyone was qualified with grenades.
while yes we wouldnt do as well as 50 rangers just those of us who were there would have done enough. especially if we included everyone who was in my platoon at the start. which was 42 of us. only downside of us was a lack of specialized training. we only knew how to use the m4 and grenades. nothing else. though we did get a run down on the Saw with DS Loth. so we at least knew how that weapon worked and with just some quick personalized training we would have been able to use them effectively.
You know damn well Saying it would’ve been a fun training exercise is still too generous.
I’m from Houston Texas, so I’ve been to the Alamo and the revenge battle of San Jacinto. That’s where the “Remember the Alamo “ came from, if 50 Rangers was at the Alamo, the Battle of San Jacinto would have never happened.
The paradox of course being that once history was changed, the Alamo would be a completely different story and no one would need to send the Rangers back in time.
unless of course the paradox is actually happening from NOT sending in those rangers....
Unless time branches into a different reality if you change the past.
Well, it would only happen once.
Oh don't start w/ that time paradox/Terminator shit.
Crockett won the WH, and raccoons were hunted to extinction as the demands for the coonskin hats went nuts.
When I was in the Marine Corps in the late 70's and the 80's we use to play this game all the time. We got the idea from a Twilight zone episode where a Sherman tank from the National Guard got involved in the little big horn battle with the tank breaking down before battle.
It was actually a Stuart.
3:48 Davy Crockett was not a Senator. He was a Congressman for Tennessee's 12th district, serving three terms (one of them non-consecutive).
So, he was a state rep instead?
No, US congressman
@@Joe_Friday - No, he was the US Congressman from Tennessee's 12th District.
@@Joe_Friday - Incidentally, Sam Houston was also a US Congressman from Tennessee's 7th District. And the former Governor of Tennessee. He would go on to be President of the Republic of Texas, Governor of the State of Texas and also a Senator from Texas. I believe he was also a Texas State Senator at one point too.
@@colin1818 I heard he was hall monitor at school too.
Remember the movie The Final Countdown ? It's the movie where the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier went though a time worm hole and wound up back in Pearl Harbor just before the Japanese attacked. I always wanted to see a sequel. But this time a SEAL team gets caught in the worm hole and goes back in time to the Civil War. Of course they come across battles and have to decide to fight or not and change history. You could have race issues with the Team. Stuff where they have to choose their loyalty, North or South. Some may have come across family on their travels e.t.c. Ok that's my 2 cents worth.
Great video !
Before I start watching this. I served with the 75 as Air Combat. I’m going to say 10 Rangers. 50 would be overkill. Remarkable how these selected men can operate, specially at chow.
10 may even be overkill depending on what battalion they come from. 1st Ranger or RRC and I'm guessing a single 4-6 man team can handle it tbh
Really? There is no question that modern gear and training are superior, but while far more accurate at mid-to-long range, a 5.56 round is honestly NOT better at disabling an enemy than .70 cal ball ammo.
The real question is could those men carry enough ammo to win against THAT many enemies. Despite what many people think because of movies, people did not just stand still in neat little lines and let people shoot at them, they used flanking maneuvers, sought natural cover, and built barricades then as now.
With that few people against nearly 2,000, every single shot missed would increase the smaller group's chances of all dying. And taking the time to line up perfect shots every time they fired would likewise increase the chance of someone lining up a shot on them instead.
I'm not saying it's impossible for a relatively small group of modern Rangers to win that fight with the right strategy, but it certainly wouldn't be some effortless cakewalk.
@@jakecarter9920 You're basing the entire scenario off of...bullet caliber? Really? That's all you think war comes down to? No consideration for the effect of even a dozen rangers shooting at well beyond a musket's effective range would have on nearby formations would have? Morale doesn't exist in your mind? Never read any examples of that in history?
@@KonglomeratYT Wow you truly are an idiot aren’t you? My argument isn’t about bullet calibers AT ALL it’s about the LACK of sufficient force multipliers to make up for the massive difference in numbers.
An M-4 is better than a Kentucky long rifle but not better ENOUGH to overcome a disparity of several hundred to one. Modern armor isn’t better ENOUGH to erase the medical trauma of getting shot by the Mexicans’ guns.
Children like you think that people back then entered into mindless zurg-rushes into hails of gunfire without shooting back and with no thought of self preservation. The reality is that just didn’t happen, especially by that time.
The Rangers could certainly inflict heavy casualties but they would be completely reliant on the statistical impossibility of thousands of trained men and all of their long rifles, pistols, and cannons somehow never once getting successful shots off.
Don’t be absurd!
@@jakecarter9920 Yeah but with the weapons of the day, the Texans already killed nearly 25% of the Mexican force before the Alamo fell. There would be a 300 m radius kill zone around the Alamo - the Mexicans would never get close enough to take a shot.
Imagine if Texas became its own colonial power, “The Lone Star Empire” would be one hell of a name 😮
Imagine the nuclear armed holy armies of Mexico as they enter the utterly utterly defeated and devastated Washington DC as the Archangel Michael flies overhead with his sword of judgement aflame announcing the liberation of all black slaves and native Americans. It is a cruel and evul person who's heart is not warmed by that liberation. All together Mexico, freedom and justice! Huzzah!
With Ted Cruz as it's eternal leader.
There. Is a succession movement
In Texas, they are exploring options 😊
@@digbyanddad
Puff puff,
Pass 🤷🏿♂️
@@rickreese5794Pass indeed :) do you know how the Archangel Micheal punishes those that do not follow the orders of the Almighty?
I love these time travel comparisons. The only movie i can think of that featured such a clash of old and new was The Final Countdown when the USS Nimitz sailed through a crazy time travel cloud and ended up in The Pacific in 1941 just before Pearl Harbour was hit
I loved that movie! However, the "time difference" was only like 40 years. Sure, the Nimitz had jet fighters armed with missles, etc. - but the Japanese fleet had technology not all that far behind. An analogy would he sending an Army battalion of 1980, equipped with 1980 weapons, to help storm the beach at Normandy. Their weapons would be slightly more advanced, but not ridiculously so.
A 2023 platoon of Army Rangers sent to the Alamo in 1836 is kind of silly - like sending the USS Nimitz back in time to fight at Trafalgar.
I honestly didn't even know about this movie existing until your post. Now of course bare in mind that this movie came out before I was born, but now it makes me want to watch it.
For sure. I kind of remember that the F14`s were having trouble with the zero`s manoeuvrability or did i see that somewhere else? @@b.santos8804
Its a classic. In fact I am going to watch it again lol@@justincoleman7856
Watched 2 times over the weekend on Comet
Santa Anna wasted 13 days and half his army storming the insignificant Alamo, then marched north with ZERO intelligence, and had no idea that Houston's army was within range. Then he let his army stop for lunch where the enemy was watching, and they were annihilated while taking their siestas. Santa Anna is probably the only General whose army was caught napping, literally.
This would completely change the outcome. Just the weapons alone would be devastating to the attackers. Anyone that got within range would be taken out without seeing it coming. And that range would amaze and terrify the attackers in the first day.
I feel like the Rangers wouldn’t have to use full auto or burst fire with their M4s or M4A1s to be effective. They are trained to use semi automatic fire very effectively to be more accurate and conserve ammo. Semi automatic fire is recommended for those reasons and combined that with the machine gun positions, ranks and columns of soldiers would just drop like potato sacks in seconds. The Mexican troops could not comprehend the rate of fire of those small M4 carbines even on semi automatic fire. Being able to shoot 30 rounds as fast as the rangers want while they can only shoot 3 rounds a minute at best is just an instant demoralizer. By the time the Mexican infantry formations understand what they’re up against, it’s too late and they have seconds before being mowed down. Tracer rounds in the machine guns, and seeing their own comrades being torn to pieces by the M2 50 caliber machine gun would just be a nightmare to the Mexican formations. The Mexican Army would break and run away just seeing the first infantry lines cut down like weeds to a weed whacker in just minutes. I don’t even think the historical defenders would even bother doing anything but firing the cannons. Maybe they’d just be drinking whiskey and watching the rangers do the work for them. The defenders would either laugh at the destruction of the Mexican Army, or be amazed and simultaneously horrified at 21st century firepower.
I have always wondered what soldiers from previous wars would think if they could witness modern warfare. I got out of the Army in 1996 and seeing some of the changes in that period of time is staggering.
Fifty rangers at the Alamo , I would imagine both sides would be a bit surprised.
what if the Texans had their 50 rangers, but Mexicans had, well they had the 3,000 troop advantage, but what Santa Ana was approached by say, 15 modern Mexican Army soldiers, offering their services?
@@Defender78 yep , talk about Pandora's box , the knock on possibilities are endless.
You're overlooking the fact that Davie Crockett was the equivalent of 50 modern army rangers. The only time traveler that could have altered the outcome is Chuck Norris
The rangers said, "It's ranging time" and ranged all over the Mexican army. Instead of saying, "Remember the Alamo" we say "Ranger the Alamo"
Great video - I found it pretty interesting, always cool to watch stuff like this. I have a similar question; what could 100 Australian Commandos from 2023 accomplish during the entirety of the Gallipoli Campaign (April 1915 to January 1916) with no reinforcements and only logistical support? Would love to see your take on it.
Especially give them maps of the natural terrain the Turks used as a natural trench system? Behind-lines ops aimed at assassinating leadership, destroying supplies, creating breach points for the main ANZAC forces to exploit, comms with British naval ships to coordinate sea-based artillery strikes, maybe even deep penetration to the Ottoman capitals to seize leadership and force a surrender? They could have gained Churchill's strategic objectives for the Gallipoli (AKA Dardanelles) Campaign.
That’s a good one
What could they accomplish? Idk, but I hear 9 news is already calling them war criminals...
I believe 100 Australian Commandos could have provided the necessary elements for victory at Gallipoli.
Prior knowledge is a huge advantage. Initiative and reliable communications would be huge too.
Send 8 pairs of 4 man teams (64 total) in small inflatable boats to recon the planned landing beaches, recon, and neutralize any outposts or patrols (using night vision devices and suppressed weapons); thus the Anzacs and other troops land unopposed. 8 personnel remain on ships to facilitate communications.
24 personnel land on undefended area 2-3 km south of Anzac Cove to neutralize the gun battery and bunkers that caused such problems landing on the day of the invasion. They could circle inland and infiltrate from behind, killing or capturing the gunners of the cannons and machine-guns.
Leave 4 to 8 commandos to secure the position and any Prisoners. The rest again circle inland to the hights above Anzac Cove (this is the terrain that Colonel Kemal Attaturk rushed his lead Battalion to, winning the campaign for the Turks (Ottoman Empire).
The remaining 6 personnel would land to the north and observe the road leading to the left flank of the landing beaches. (The road Kemal Attaturk and his troops used). In addition to an M240B (aka GPMG/MAG-58) 7.62x51mm machine-gun, they could direct naval gunfire.
Uncertainty and poor communications between the senior British officers caused the troops to not be ordered inland. They should have been occupying key terrain to make the beachheads safe for logistics.
Seeing the Commandos occupying key terrain, combined with the aggressive nature and initiative typical of the Anzacs, they could secure a lodgement deep enough to land reinforcements, Artillery, and supplies.
The Commandos could operate at night, conduct recon, then lead Companies of Anzacs and British troops to infiltrate enemy lines and capture the key terrain and defenses before the Ottoman Empire could reinforce the area.
Several Brigades and Divisions were in the region to reinforce success. Because the Generals were pessimistic about the First Lord of the Admiralty (Sir Winston Churchill's) plan, they were hesitant when they should have been bold.
The Royal Navy wanted the plan to succeed.
Consider how aggressive the Anzacs and Royal Marines were historically; now with amazing reconnaissance, including night vision, guides, and reliable communications, they would have far fewer casualties.
Success would build upon success.
Not the firepower of 100 modern troops; it is their superior Training, knowledge, Night Vision, and Reliable Communications that would be an amazing force multiplier for the fit and eager Anzac soldiers!
Anzacs would have still done most of the fighting. But from good defensive positions. Attacks would not have to be wasteful frontal assaults, but infiltration via less defended areas, then assault from the rear or a flank. Coordination of supporting attacks would also contribute to success with minimal casualties.
Knowing how brutal the campaign was, they would die like the rest, but a bit slower than the other ANZAC troops.
A platoon of modern US Rangers would be a terrifying situation for Santa Ana's force to be faced with...the Rangers' nvgs and training would allow for a probably total exorcism during the first night...and daylight would be a living nightmare (not for long, though). If a plan were set up to allow a handful of survivors to "escape" back to Mexico, Texas would be left alone...
How about the Battle of Thermopylae next? I'm fairly certain Xerxes' Immortals would call out sick the next day...
Agree. How would the Spartans hold up with Ranger help?
Well, the mgs set up on high points, along with the long gunners and riflemen, would've kept Xerxes' Immortals well beyond bow range, let alone any ballista or other seige engine Xerxes could have brought.
The gunfire would have seemed like many religions' worth of gods were not just severely miffed with Xerxes about SOMETHING, but had also sided with the Spartans...
And imagine a couple MK-19s along with the MA Deuces, M240s, SAWs and M4s rumbling away from the hills?
The 8000-ish Spartans could (with a bit of a mental pre-fire brief) provide the Rangers a really good defense of cover AND concealment in and among the rocks with their shields, while the Rangers shared their thunder, lighting, fire, and brimstone ALL OVER Xerxes' forces.
Pretty sure it would be a rolling shenanigan overall...
Plus with the high points manned, the enfilade would never have happened.
Do you think Black and Brown US Rangers would fight for a Texas that still had slavery? If they won, Texas might still have slavery. Yup, nothing like buying human beings like cattle, raping them, selling your own children into slavery and abuse... Yay Texas!
True but if it’s raining arrows, the rangers would kinda screwed without cover.
In 1984 individual Ranger standard 5.56 ammo load was 360 rounds in 12, 30 round mags. I still have the LBE diagram for 1st Bat. Which included 4 ammo pouches not two. We also did not have any 50 cal. Machine guns. Biggest squad machine was was M-60.
But we did have specialy prepared armored up jeeps with m60's, recoiless 90mm rifles and TOW missiles so you could add that....Rangers would most likely kill off the Mexican army supply lines first before the battle. Maybe Santa Anna would have just returned...
Gee, that brings back memories , I entered the Army in 1984…. Retired in 2004 …
Did you know a dude named Duane Beasley? Middle name Ron. He served in 1/75 Bn then. He might have been either a 1SG or the SGM.
The 9th ID where I served from 1980-84 was the last conventional Army unit to feature the 90mm RR as part of the standard TO&E.
@@donaldmartin4980I got my commission from University of Alabama in 1980, served with the 9th ID after IOBC from 1980-84, left active duty for the IRR and was forced out by Clinton in 1994 because he wanted midnight basketball.
@@ExSoldier762 Sounds very familiar … thanks for your service, sir. I was in 7th ID (L) for my first 6.5 years … Fort Ord, California
Great video! I do have one problem. Its the siege of the alamo. The Texans still have limited supplies. The Mexicans can still get out of range to the point where they can not get hit but still be able to hit the area with artillery. Also I think that news of the battle could bring in more Mexica troops, ultimately allowing more troops to come in for an effective siege. M-4s can't help during times of starvation.
Still a Great video! Could you make one where The U.S.S constitution Went back to the Battle of Cape Ecnomus, it makes no sense but still would be fun.
When I was a kid, I read a book called "Remember The Alamo!" by author Kevin Randle. It was a sci-fi book about a time traveler who sent back machine guns and modern weapons to the defenders of the Alamo. It's a great read...or at least it was 35 years ago when I read it!
I remember reading the same book. It was very interesting
sounds like Harry Turtledove and his Guns of the South books, where time-travling Russians equip the Confederate Army with AK-47s.
was a fantastic book, and even had a good ending...they stayed and invested in the industries that were just comming up and lived rich.
That book is probably banned in schools now …. It’s talking about scary guns and hurting people
This book has already been wriiten. In 1986 Kevin D. Randle and Robert Cornett authored a novel titled "Remember the Alamo!" where troops from modern times are sent back to win the Alamo. They later wrote two sequals: Remember Gettysburg! (1988) and Remember the Little Bighorn! (1990).
I wonder where I heard this concept before. 😂
I read ‘Remember the Alamo’. Very interesting book for a sci-fi and history buff like m’self. I highly recommend it for a light read.
@@terryspees9210 It seems there is some moron with huge complexes. If he would have changed history, he should have asked about what if the sioux have gotten the modern weapons, to slaughter the yankee scum who tried to exterminate the native indians. But nope, some dumb a§§hole who is upset about defeats (even such satisfying ones like Little Big Horn) and try to erase them. This is disgusting. But suits a lot of ducking people.
I read that book when I was 8
I was going to mention that but didn’t remember the name. Didn’t know about the other two books.
There’s a great book from the 80s called “Remember the Alamo” by Randle/Cornett that tackles this with a platoon of 80s era Green Berets, etc
Oh Green Berets would interesting and not as overpowering as a Ranger platoon just given that the SF guys have far less in weapons than the Rangers do. The math there being Rangers are heavy armed light infantry and Green Berets are force multipliers who rely on training foreign nationals how to fight and ise weapons systems but their M16s and M60s alone would have easily been enough to take out Santa Ana's army not to mention that SF jas engineers to make things go boom.
You sound young. The 60s series The Time Tunnel has an Alamo episode, but more to the point, they dealt with the question of modern weapons in historic periods in other episodes. You did a great job on this, by the way.
A modern ranger platoon would have night vision capability. Which was a huge factor in both Afghanistan and Iraq. I could only imagine the advantages this would give you in the 1830s. But can do little big horn next. Or maybe help emperor Napoleon at Waterloo.
You ever walk a dismounted patrol with nods at night? They only really work if theres good lum... so a cloudless full moon is ideal. Otherwise its not much better than natural night vision. Its also not viable without certain optics or ir lasers/illuminators... if you set your acog up for use with nods, itll be terrible for day ops with the naked eye, if its set up for an ir laser, then youre really only zeroed out to around 50 meters and youre point shooting... not to mention battery life... i rocked some pvs23's the night vision feature shit out after a week and then i was left with thermal only, which killed the batteries in 20 minutes... theres a reason that model never made it past testing. Regular nods still dont have very good battery life, youre best off swapping out a set after every night of use.
It would be like Operation Desert Storm in steroids.
Little bighorn? You'll end up with 50 dead rangers, a lot of dead Lakota and Cheyenne, and a bunch of living natives with M4s.
@@huntermurphy2148 no, the rangers would absolutely swing that battle, easily... they dont just have m4s... and the natives only had about 200 rifles, most of which being smoothbore black powder rifles. If the rangers commanded operational control, theyd kill so many so quickly that the surviving natives (an extremely superstitious people) would retreat. You have no idea the difference radio communication makes, and theyd absolutely have at least harris radios.
@@g00gleisgayerthanaids56 "If the rangers had operational control" lol
If they had Ops control they wouldnt have run into the engagement to begin with. Its not Little Bighorn if its not the same engagement. The Lakota and Cheyenne are far more mobile, out number them significantly, and have surrounded them.
Line Infantryman here. The limitation would be ammunition. Assuming ONLY a standard loadout, and the Rangers on station from day one, they would be out of ammo relatively quickly. At that point, they would be unarmed defenders at best. The way to utilize them, is as night raiders. Wreak havoc among the ranks of the Mexican army, every single night, using as few rounds as possible, saving them for the final battle. Especially save the M240B ammo. It goes faster than you think.
Some things to consider that were left out. I believe that current Ranger MTO&E has each soldier armed with a semiautomatic handgun as well. Those would be crucial as ammo ran out, and assuming the Mexicans kept up their breach attempts. Additionally, at least for the riflemen, we as an unspoken rule, always had additional ammo, either in boxes or pre-loaded in magazines, stashed in our rucks. And then there are the M203 grenade launchers, or current equivalent. Mounted under the barrel of an M4, it fires a 40mm grenade. In combat, that would be a high explosive round. But there would also be flare rounds, to illuminate the battlefield by firing flares equipped with parachutes.
Given all this additional info, and assuming the morale of the Mexican army doesn't falter, the Alamo still falls, with the defender death toll padded by another 50. again, the limiting factor is lack of ammunition resupply.
The Texan force killed 1000 without the rangers. That leaves 3000 Mexicans. The rangers would only have to kill 60 per ranger. The rangers would not waste ammo and could kill the Mexicans with one shot one kill will out of the range of the Mexicans weapons. Plus the rate of fire would leave the Mexican Army thinking they were fighting a much larger force and they would have broke and ran.
Ian dude 50 rangers are a lot of MRAPs loaded to the gills with mortars, carl Gustavs, belted ammo etc. I think the M2 and hand held mortars would be so devastating the Mexican army would be decimated before they ran out of ammo
@@totenfurwotan4478 you obviously didn't listen to what was said in the video. He clearly said only M4s, a couple M240Bs, and didn't even include SAWs. He also said standard combat load of ammo, which isn't much. No vehicles, no indirect fire, no recoilless rifles, so my point stands.
The best rifle the Mexican forces had was the British Baker rifle, but they were comparitively few.
Ahh those in Alamo had the advantage...cartridge guns santa ana..old muzzle loaders...but know we're decades and decades past why did Texans refer to themselves as texicans...Texans and Mexican
@@miguelcastaneda7257 aaaah no.
In the real battle there were no cartridge guns yet. The only advantage was smooth bore muskets,
Against those that had rifled barrels that put a spin on the bullet, and that made them more accurate. The Baker rifle was the best you could get in military rifles at that time. While the rank and file Mexican soldiers had smooth bore…. The Texicans had alot of personal hunting arms… which are rifled( more accurate, but slower to load than a smooth bore military musket)
It is only in the time travel fictional books we are discussing, that anyone has modern weapons to tip the scale.
And one of their best shots, Felix Garza, died after killing Ben Milam during the Battle of Bexar.
An M4 with a modern combat optic on it out ranges the Baker by about 400 yards, and 50 rounds per minute (aimed semi automatic fire, as opposed to the 2 shots a muzzle loading rifleman could typicaly manage... extremely skilled riflemen could make 3 rounds a minute starting with a squeaky clean rifle) furthermore, as accurate as the Baker was compared to its contemporary muskets - the M4 is far more accurate.
Obviously, the M24, or M110 precision rifles the rangers would also have build on the range advantage of the M4 vs Baker by 3x.
So, It would make little difference to the rangers if the baker was fielded in any kind of numbers in this fight.
@@stinkyfungus face it, an M1 carbine
With irons would have outclassed everything there… much less something in 2023 configuration.
It's 4000 people against 50. They will get overwhelmed...
I have to imagine a few competent marksmen with modern day sniper rifles could have turned the battle. I believe the artillery Santa Ana’s army was using was place roughly 1,000 feet from the Alamo. The men manning that artillery and officers would have been easy pickings, never mind the chaos that would have caused. Artillery would have become a non factor. Then there is the obvious Santa Ana himself would have been in effective range of todays modern Sniper rifle. That would have ended the battle right there most likely.
It did not do well because these amazing points in history are no longer taught in school. This new generation have no idea about Bunker Hill, The Civil War, WWI, WWII, KOREA, Vietnam, 9-11 etc.
Sad part is that most (not all) College age students cannot pick out on a map of the world. 5 countries ....including the U.S.. I wish I was joking about this.
I have often wondered about a situation where CIVILIANS armed with commercially available civilian firearms and equipment could have turned the tide if 100 or so volunteers (veterans; hunters; police officers; recreational shooters; ect.) could be sent back in time.
Don't send the police, they would only ask random people minding their own damn business for ID and then assault those people when they say no.
with enough ammo and food i believe they could've turned the tide
One sniper with a 308 rifle and enough ammo would single-handedly win the entire battle.
@@Whats-It-To-Ya The Mexican officers dressed like peacocks. Easy pickings. No officers, no army.
The difference between a “civilian” and “infantry” are 6 weeks of basic PT, weapons training, and learning to obey orders because you’re too stupid to know better.
Now do 50 Arizona National Guardsmen vs 5,000,000 Martians!
Not only this battle is lopsided, it’s also a psychological warfare with sheered fire power that they possess
I wonder how bad the psychological effect of tracers would be.
I’ve actually thought of this Scenario for decades ! Glad to see it demonstrated.
what if they are up agains 20 alien warships, who would win?
I think every young man in Texas runs this scenario through their heads
What would be the usual platoon ammo load for the light mgs and the M-2s? How about just a squad at Rourke's Drift?
@@iccarus1975 Mexican, Guatemalan or Russian alien warships??
@@spikespa5208 It is not going to be much. There was NO transport allowed in this scenario. You had to carry everything in and the riflemen are already at full load out. There would be NO M-2s in a Ranger squad this size. The gun itself is 84 lbs (24 lbs of barrel) and the tripod is another 48 lbs. Each 100 round ammo can is another 24 lbs someone has to hump. The M-2s would be staying home in a sane scenario.
To me, if starting at day 1 the sharp shooters would have the greatest impact. Ranges the enemy can't even return fire at, and the accuracy they have, they could pick off officers and command personal at long distances, or even the cannon crew. Save all other ammo for the actual assault.
I think it would depend on how much ammo they carried. They could just spray the attackers with lead until they gave up.
If you have ever seen in real life how small the Alamo is, you would be amazed...that was actually the last place they could seek shelter...they knew they were doomed , yet refused surrender...and we think our lives are difficult
That's what happens when you invade other people's land. The good guys won that one.
The Alamo complex was about 10 acres originally, all that is left now is the church...so there is that
@kingdedede9135 yes we did and Texas became a free Republic, thank you for your recognition 🙂
@@Grim-Crusader “Free republic.” Lmao. You invaded Mexico, and tried to start a slave state. Show some self awareness. It’s embarrassing to be so openly and proudly stupid.
Yet those "good guys" are the invaders now.
For anyone interested there's a great book that came out in the 80's titled : Remember The Alamo by Author's Kevin Randle and Robert Cornett. An oil company sends 33 Vietnam combat vets back in time with modern weapons , to win the Battle. It's a great read , and would make a great movie.
Reminds me of Guns of the South by Harry Turtledove. A South African group goes back in time to bring the AK47 to the Confederacy.
So basically this guy's idea 😆
I have this book, great read, its about 40 years old,
Guns of the South is a great book .yeah it was published in 1980.
@@theyearwas1473People have been kicking around alt history ideas like this for decades. This isn't Turtledove or Randall/Cornett's idea. Hell, there's probably evidence of Alexander the Great and Aristotle doing this for The Trojan War. Shit, Homer's epic poem is probably an alt-his "what if the gods were involved in the Trojan War" story.
I suspect you could achieve a significant victory with a few small sniper squads, 2-3 men per group maybe 15 men in total. At that time getting killed from what looks like nowhere and not hearing a sound would basically kill morale and have them retreating. This is even more assured if you could accurately asses who the army leaders were and take them out. Another good scenario if you like to think of the fewest men required to win would be a few mortars with practically unlimited ammo
Agree 100%
That s*** still kills morale now hahaha
@@Weirwoodchronicler hahah, very true
Retreat nothing! More like an “every man for himself!” event
Takinfofficers out in those days wouldn't be hard, they stood out like peacocks among chicken with their gaudy uniforms. A mistake they would quickly learn from if they got the chance.
M4a1 is 700 rounds per minute? So they could realistically use up all their ammo (7x30 rd magazines=210 rds) in 30 seconds or less?
that's a cyclic fire rate. it assumes no ammo constraints or reload time.
I would be interested in your take on a full company of US Army Rangers at:
Gettysburg
Thermopolis
With Hannibal of Carthage invading Rome.
A very interesting engagement would be working with the British Red Coats at Rorkes Drift
Kevin D. Randle wrote the books Remember The Alamo, Remember Gettysburg, and Remember The Little Big Horn with Vietnam Veterans time traveling and fighting in those battles.
Gettysburg- It depends on where they were placed, because there were several areas where they could have made all the difference, but if they took part in Pickets charge, they would all have died. With Hannibal the Rangers would have made no difference, because it was the walls of Rome that Hannibal had a hard time with and 50 Rangers would not have made a difference with Hannibal, but if they were with Rome......
@@kraigthorne3549 I do not know about that... Like at the Alamo, if the Rangers was anywhere on the field they could out shoot any arms be it musket/riffle or cannon. Rangers also would not walk in one long line, they would move and shoot in groups of 3 to 6... They would still lose some men in the attack unlike at the Alamo... But if the Rangers where in a defensiveness spot then they would come out much better near or fully in-tacked.
@@kraigthorne3549 Unless the Rangers (with Hannibal) scaled the walls at night and opened a few gates next to each other....
@kraigthorne3549 in Gettysburg had the Rangers been employed "correctly" Pickets charge would not have happened. Hannibal never actually attacked the city walls of Rome. Had he had Rangers with motorized (land or air) transportation the Roman's would not have been able to retreat to Rome. That is where it would get interesting, Hannibal routed both Roman Consuls, had those army's/ legions not been allowed to retreat into Rome would Hannibal have tried to take the city?
Now, does your Ranger platoon also have all of the historical data as well? Snipers taking out leadership would go a long way into making this a 1.3 day battle vs. a 13 day battle. Force multipliers go a LONG way into demoralizing an enemy force.
EDIT: I also asked this question only at the midpoint of the video, so there's that, lol!
Locals would have been able to inform them easily, I'd imagine.
@@AfterDeath1986 Either that or just aim for the most 'bling'??
@@itsjustme8947too bad after Goliad we Texians allowed Santa Anna to go home after we kicked his ass. We should have demanded his surrender and claimed Mehico as a part of Texas. Appears we have now thanks to our jerk president.
The United States had a treaty with Mexico at the time, and supplying troops and weapons would have been an overt act of war against Mexico. So no rangers would have ever been deployed to the alamo.
@@opieshomeshop you must be a hoot at parties lol jk
Rangers technically operate behind the lines as information gatherers.
I'm pretty sure you could have brought back a company of leg infantry from WWII armed with M1 carbines and it would have changed the outcome of that battle.
75th Ranger Regiment is the premier light infantry strike force in the world. RRC is a Tier 1 reconnaissance unit that does the information gathering. 75th also has "Recce" platoons that can be utilized to that effect as well but the heart of the "75th Ranger Regiment" is fighting as a fast, infantry force to over take airfields or anything else in a raid style assault.
I would go farther. You could probably take the complement of a western fort from the 1880s - equipped with Gatling Guns and repeating rifles an pistols and would be able to hold off the Mexican army for a longer time period.
@@joegibson4946no shit Sherlock . Look what the native did with bow and arrows to the rangers . Oh u should look up why the rangers where invented Texas history
The 75th Rangers are not primarily an information gathering force at all. They're primarily used to conduct direct action missions. They have one small part of the Rangers that are high level recon operators, that are trained in what you're talking about. But the main Rnager force is not what you describe.
@@rascalmatt6713they are the 5th best behind Seals, Delta, Raiders, and MARSOC.
There is no American Son born that does not lament being born too late and answering the Travis letter, or going to Wake Island or Bunker Hill, but what we can do is permit the spirits of those who made those last stands to infuse our souls with the cause of liberty and a preference to die standing rather than submission to the evils of the Democrats. As for me there is no death only redeployment guarding the streets of gold upon heavens scenes.
Agreed. However, in a defensive drop, they WOULD have at least 120 lbs per person, carrying every bit of gear and ammunition that they possibly could, far beyond 7 magazines for an M-4 rifle mentioned, (we learned something in Mogadishu!) including claymores, M203 grenade launchers, MK40 grenade launchers, TOW,Javelin, AT4 or some version of the Carl Gustaf variant, Browning .50 cal or even possibly a 7.62mm m134 mini gun (yes really). The most important fact, beyond the weapons, is that the Rangers would completely own the night with thermal and low light NVG’s. Lastly, the rifle optics and accuracy at ranges of over 200 meters would be the biggest game changers. Thoughts anyone?
Davey Crockett was never a “Senator” he was a Congressman in the House of Representatives.
As a Tejano who started watching your videos two weeks ago and saw you hadn't uploaded in a year. This is a welcome surprise. And yeah this movie was underrated.
Welcome to the channel. Yes, i sometimes have unreasonably long breaks in uploads, but i want to try and be more consistent.
@@ParryThiscan you do more time travel military videos please?
Their night vision and rate of fire advantage would make it ridiculously one-sided. The confusion of troops randomly dying at night from a distance would probably lead to demoralizing desertions.
I love how you sidelined the Carl Gustav and the Mortars! That battle would be over in 30 min if they were in play! 😂😂🇺🇸
Grenade launchers would still be in play because two members of every rifle squad are grenadiers with an M203 attached to their M4.
I am born and raised in San Antonio and love the Texas history rooted deep in our culture. This video covers something that I have often thought about. Thanks, great video!
love San Antonio.
Please do many many of these kinds of videos.
Very Harry Turtledove of you. Potential battles with alternative outcomes:
The siege and fall of Constantinople
Battle of Gettysburg
Easter Rising of 1916
The trenches of WW1
Or 50,000 Samurai instead of Spartans at Thermopylae.
How about 50 Rangers going back to December 1941to helo the besieged Marines on Wake Island??
A good movie to watch about the Rangers in WW2 is "The Great Raid".
It's the true story of how the Rangers under the command of Colonel Stanley Mucci(Benjamin Bratf)and their daring raid on the infamous Japanese Prison Camp at Cabanatuan in early 1945.
How about sending them back to help out the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto in 1943??
I read a sci fi novel once where the second richest man in the world wanted to die the richest, so his scientists developed time travel, and sent 30 fully kitted mercenaries on a one way trip back to the Alamo with the intent of destroying Santa Ana and causing the Mexican oil fields to fall into Texan hands. With high explosives and automatic weapons they slaughtered the Mexican Army, and forced Santa Ana to crawl back to Mexico. However, since time travel now existed, some unidentified overlords plopped an additional 6000 troops in Santa Ana's path, which he immediately marched right back to San Antonio and massacred the Texans the next morning after the mercs had left.
I am ex-army. And I have always wondered what the outcome would be like. Even just using a regular infantry company. With m-16s, claymores, grenades and night vision, and don't forget -203s.
You mean m4's?
@@jrny8922 Depends on when he became ex. I think A1 :)
@@jrny8922prolly during his time in service they still used the m16 with m203 attachment.
A standard rifle platoon with a fourth rifle squad and a sniper team attached would add up to 50. That would make the scenarion work.
Have you watched the GATE anime? It probably has one of the best depiction of a modern force fighting against old technology. I particularly like it because the combatants using the old technology are not shown as stupid and actually make a concerted effort to work around the discrepancy with varying degrees of effectiveness.
Anime? 😂😂😂😂😂 grow up
"Varying degrees of effectiveness" is a hilarious way to describe the hell of a curb stomp our military gave those Medievals 😂
But "Gate" came to my mind as well when "Parry This" said at 10:51"Fifty Rangers would tip that scale so far the other way it's not even funny." Because he's wrong, it would be absolutely hysterical! 😁
Gate really exposes how silly virtually all Sci-Fi-Movies are, though. In just a few hundred years of our own culture managed to amplify a single soldier's effectiveness to a terrifying degree that a handful of men can take out an entire army. Imagine what edge millennia of technological evolution would provide!
@@ImaSMACKHEAD982 there's nothing wrong with watching anime.
@@jrny8922 Er yes there is 😂😂😂
@@jrny8922 There's nothing wrong with watching old classic anime. ;)
I think about situations like this all the time. Not just with historical movies though. Even the battle of Helms Deep. Every time i watch it i think, what if they had one or two gatling guns mounted on the deeping wall,lol.
That's not a bad one. I think for a lot of historical battles, 50 rangers would be extreme overkill.
WHO in their right mind builds a castle wall with a massive hole in it?!
@@ParryThisJust an FYI, _rout_ rhymes with "trout" or "about", not "loot" or "boot."
I can remember the first time I held an AR 15 and wondering what difference it would make to bring it to the Alamo
Could you imagine the impact of a Mk19 grenade machine gun?
I was wondering about just an M203, but the effective range is only 250m. But if you were lobbing 40mm grenades into concentrated formations, the carnage would be incredible . They would break and run long before they got to within 250.
or a few stand mounted miniguns
Never used it while deployed but I’ve fired the Mk19 a handful of times in training and the thing is terrifying! The M2 is also, but the Mk19 would be Fing horrible to face as an Infantryman! The stuff of nightmares.
@@lyingcat9022 I never got to fire one, but I did watch a few demonstrations of it. Close order infantry wouldn't stand a chance. Of course the biggest weapons system I worked on would have been quite spectacular and decisive too... The Pershing Missile.
Love thought experiments like this! Whether you use historical or fictional scenarios. Drop your 50 Rangers at the battle of Helms Deep next!
Or the Battle of Hastings on the Saxon side.
Constantinople, 1435. British retreat from Kabul, 1842. Cannae, on the Roman side? Islandwana?
The battle of Gondor is what I'd like to see, with 50 rangers would be equivalent to the Alamo with the biggest difference being the weapons and high ground advantage.
@eriklehman5782 yeah that would be awesome! The Rangers having high ground, but the Nazgul having air superiority.
As a kid, I often thought about time travel, and what it would be like if I went back to the Alamo, and took things like.....a barret .50.....and how many rounds would it take before they were terrified to be in eye sight of the alamo.
I thought about it to . Then I realised I’m British and have never shot a gun so the barret would hurt me more .
@@loganforethat is pain, take a flight to Nevada or Montana and go to a nice private gun range where you can literally shoot a minigun.
I am a US ARMY VET, and have seen this film a few times I actually like the movie, and have often thought how that could have ended if they just had some crew serve weapons at each corner of the Alamo, and another 1 or 2 hundred US infantry, and a good supply of ordnance, total shock and awe!! you wouldn't even need 50 Rangers, standard company of 11 Bravos will do just fine, maybe a Mortar Platoon, Grenadiers, mini-guns, surround the fort with ant-personal mine and claymores, and saturate the first wave with incendiary grenades, this alone will neutralize many and de-moralize the rest, and this is all with just basic Infantry no Artillery or air strikes, or Armour support , and a a lot of M-16s that's a lot of lead and ordnance being sent down range, the Mexican Army of that time would not know what to do, the shear shock of the weaponry being put upon them would make them retreat fairly quickly the sight of 1 to 2 thousand of there men being blown and shot to bits would alone generate either a complete surrender or total retreat,
Really really fun video. I enjoyed listening to this, as I have thoughts like this all the time while watching movies,lol.
I think there are a lot of us, who love historical media, but our mind immediately compares the struggles of the past to our modern abilities, and it makes it a serious distraction.
There was a book based on time travel back to the Alamo involving Vietnam Veterans, called Remember the Alamo . About 20 to 30 years ago
Its older than that. My grandfather had that book. Looked likenit was written in the 70s. I remember thinking to myself as a kid, "one day I'll read that.' Never did, and when he passed, his book shelf got tossed before I could get to it. Fuckin worthless family members...
There was an outer limits episode where 3 modern soldiers (1960s modern) who time travel back to custerds last stand. They turn to each other at one point and say "if only we had a tank"
That was a twilight zone,not outer limits
@@richardsavino3612 oh, okay.
They do in fact have a tank in the episode.
@LtClarke75 okay you know what ? Maybe I just dreamed the f-ing thing!
They have a tank but I believe it stops working so they can't use it.
I remember in 7th grade (1999), we visited the Alamo for a school trip and the boys brought up this exact hypothetical.