Hi Satorn! I don't know if this can help you but it might. Clout is not only determine by election but it's big factor when the distribution of power enable it. Without taking note of laws, clout is calculated haow wealthy in proportion an IG's pop are, how many, events, generals and leaders. The rule of thumb its the wealthier, the menier, the better. But this modified by laws. The more democratic the distribution of power it will strengthen the more numerous pops at expenses of richer. Landed voting, oligarchy and autocracy gives bonus to the political strength of wealthy pops. Landed voting, wealth voting and census voting give bonuses to rich people and who can vote (and limits who can vote). Universal it's the system that evaluates votes heavier than other factor. Anarchy disable election but penalize wealth's political strength. Some principle of government also modified clout: monarchy and theocracy gives bonus to certain IG, and council republic diseables MP that gives employment to high strata. So republics, census, universal and anarchy tend to benefit poorer and more numerous pops. But as you know, if the objective it's to empower quickly the Trade Unions, it defeats the purpose trying to enact anarchy bc you need strong Trade Unions. So what to do? I think its needed least census suffrage, high SoL of the trade and luck. Why? Bc of party formation. If a big part of clout it's tied to election we have to adress that. And party forms by uniting many IG, in other words, how big it is the Trade Unions depends also of the other IG. There are eleven parties. And each party attracts different IG for example. The consirvative party its form by the landlords and the requirement to enter it to not be trade unions. The leader's ideology also enters in scene. If one IG's leader have market liberal its very possible that the free trade party to form. Besides the requirement to form and to joining a party, each party have certain attraction modifier. Ruralfolk can enter in many parties including forming their own party. How it is determined that? It depends in laws and previous clout. In the wiki there is a full excel with party formation and attraction ( vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Political_party ) In this case what you wanna do it heavy industrialize, have the more democratic election, and do not pass laws that Trade unions want (bc it's favours the socialdemocratic party, communist, anarchist, etc). Try to strengthen IG allies (rural folk, intelligentsia) bc its likely to form a party with them and to win elections. Try to foment migration. Try to kill via event TU's moderetes leader's or other unusefull ideology Another way is not to pass any political reform and havy industrialize and wait to TU to have a vanguardist or comunist (communist Ideology tend to form were the more athoritarian society, censure, outlawed dissent, oigarchy, etc.)and then pass reforms You can also piss off TU and start a revolution, switch sides and win it. It will help you to reform the country to enentrench it in power. Sorry for the long post. It was written in one stream of consciousness
Amazing write up so overall trade unions are not going to happen quickly due to needing heavy industrialization some countries this will be easier but you also need to hope for good RNG which is what I found in the two runs I tried lol So hopefully saved some peoples time trying to increase them quickly better to just let it happen as you develop.
@@xSatornx yes, it depends the country perhaps UK bc it's start with industrialization could be the fastest or a little europian country like Krakow you could get TU big fast. I don't think impossible to get TU big but you have to do a lot minmaxing and it can be frustrating, and rng can ruin it. I get the vibe that you've to see how the game develops, it's counterproductive to impose rigid plan in game so complex and intertwined. An subotimal strategy now is better than the most optimal strategy from the start
Best way to get strong trade unions really fast is fulminant industrialistion. Also social technogolies and some luck with events is very important. One time, thanks to luck, I got opportunity to create communist government in UK game by ~1845-1850. So best combo is choosing country with high industrial potential and collect all population's money, that can be collected, to invest it in your industrialisation. It means a risky game with high taxes and duties. In this country citizens will become socialists very quickly ^^"
Thanks Gameser makes sense I can see how country choice would definitely make a difference the faster you can industrial or become more socialist it helps. Out of all the interest groups this is a tough one to force early 😝 for many countries
So why would you call them the weakest? I find them quite useful in the mid to late game, as they can really boost your industries a lot, and help with extra workforce in countries with low population density. Of course they are most useful for mid size industrial focused countries, but that will also be where they'll have a lot of cloud. And they aren't very difficult to pair of with other interest groups.
More relating to clout very hard to get them powerful early most other interest groups I can get them 20% in 10 years for even the most underdeveloped countries. Trade unions are very hard to make strong except for specific countries and some RNG events 😅
I think that something like guilds or don't socialist trade unions needed(don't as IG, something like name and ideology for another existing IG , petite bourgeois can be renamed in guild and devout to religious trade unions in some countries by event or from the start of game)
Hi Satorn! I don't know if this can help you but it might. Clout is not only determine by election but it's big factor when the distribution of power enable it. Without taking note of laws, clout is calculated haow wealthy in proportion an IG's pop are, how many, events, generals and leaders. The rule of thumb its the wealthier, the menier, the better.
But this modified by laws. The more democratic the distribution of power it will strengthen the more numerous pops at expenses of richer. Landed voting, oligarchy and autocracy gives bonus to the political strength of wealthy pops. Landed voting, wealth voting and census voting give bonuses to rich people and who can vote (and limits who can vote). Universal it's the system that evaluates votes heavier than other factor. Anarchy disable election but penalize wealth's political strength.
Some principle of government also modified clout: monarchy and theocracy gives bonus to certain IG, and council republic diseables MP that gives employment to high strata.
So republics, census, universal and anarchy tend to benefit poorer and more numerous pops. But as you know, if the objective it's to empower quickly the Trade Unions, it defeats the purpose trying to enact anarchy bc you need strong Trade Unions. So what to do?
I think its needed least census suffrage, high SoL of the trade and luck. Why? Bc of party formation. If a big part of clout it's tied to election we have to adress that. And party forms by uniting many IG, in other words, how big it is the Trade Unions depends also of the other IG. There are eleven parties. And each party attracts different IG for example. The consirvative party its form by the landlords and the requirement to enter it to not be trade unions. The leader's ideology also enters in scene. If one IG's leader have market liberal its very possible that the free trade party to form.
Besides the requirement to form and to joining a party, each party have certain attraction modifier. Ruralfolk can enter in many parties including forming their own party. How it is determined that? It depends in laws and previous clout.
In the wiki there is a full excel with party formation and attraction ( vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Political_party )
In this case what you wanna do it heavy industrialize, have the more democratic election, and do not pass laws that Trade unions want (bc it's favours the socialdemocratic party, communist, anarchist, etc). Try to strengthen IG allies (rural folk, intelligentsia) bc its likely to form a party with them and to win elections. Try to foment migration. Try to kill via event TU's moderetes leader's or other unusefull ideology
Another way is not to pass any political reform and havy industrialize and wait to TU to have a vanguardist or comunist (communist Ideology tend to form were the more athoritarian society, censure, outlawed dissent, oigarchy, etc.)and then pass reforms
You can also piss off TU and start a revolution, switch sides and win it. It will help you to reform the country to enentrench it in power.
Sorry for the long post. It was written in one stream of consciousness
Amazing write up so overall trade unions are not going to happen quickly due to needing heavy industrialization some countries this will be easier but you also need to hope for good RNG which is what I found in the two runs I tried lol So hopefully saved some peoples time trying to increase them quickly better to just let it happen as you develop.
@@xSatornx yes, it depends the country perhaps UK bc it's start with industrialization could be the fastest or a little europian country like Krakow you could get TU big fast. I don't think impossible to get TU big but you have to do a lot minmaxing and it can be frustrating, and rng can ruin it. I get the vibe that you've to see how the game develops, it's counterproductive to impose rigid plan in game so complex and intertwined. An subotimal strategy now is better than the most optimal strategy from the start
That's pretty useful, thanks for the vid!
Best way to get strong trade unions really fast is fulminant industrialistion. Also social technogolies and some luck with events is very important. One time, thanks to luck, I got opportunity to create communist government in UK game by ~1845-1850.
So best combo is choosing country with high industrial potential and collect all population's money, that can be collected, to invest it in your industrialisation. It means a risky game with high taxes and duties. In this country citizens will become socialists very quickly ^^"
Thanks Gameser makes sense I can see how country choice would definitely make a difference the faster you can industrial or become more socialist it helps. Out of all the interest groups this is a tough one to force early 😝 for many countries
So why would you call them the weakest?
I find them quite useful in the mid to late game, as they can really boost your industries a lot, and help with extra workforce in countries with low population density.
Of course they are most useful for mid size industrial focused countries, but that will also be where they'll have a lot of cloud.
And they aren't very difficult to pair of with other interest groups.
More relating to clout very hard to get them powerful early most other interest groups I can get them 20% in 10 years for even the most underdeveloped countries. Trade unions are very hard to make strong except for specific countries and some RNG events 😅
@@xSatornx Yes, I figured that it must have been what you meant, but I had already posted the comment.
Good morning buddy, miss you 😢
Thanks Greg work has been a bear hoping to stream Thursday night 😀
@@xSatornx you’re a bear
I think that something like guilds or don't socialist trade unions needed(don't as IG, something like name and ideology for another existing IG , petite bourgeois can be renamed in guild and devout to religious trade unions in some countries by event or from the start of game)
I really like this idea 👍
My hard drive died last night it’s your fault Satorm
lol yup totally did it