It only works on shiny new machines that have never seen farm crud in their lives. 350bar gas tight connectors that are used almost daily will not survive a farm.
@@dougaltolan3017 When a user experiences downtime due to carelessness, they tend to learn quickly. That, and manufacturers of such connectors and sealing apparatus WILL design durability in, not only for the purpose of having satisfied end-users, but also to meet regulations and requirements. They aren't going to cheap out on materials, design, and construction when pressures of 5000+ psi are involved. It simply wouldn't make sense given liability concerns.
Hydrogen is made from electricity from the grid, to turn the energy from electricity into hydrogen is about 33% efficient, so it will always be a huge amount more expensive. Burn oil to generate electric, transport the electric to a hydrogen factory, transport the pressurised gas to a customer to use to replace some of the diesel you are trying to stop using. The other thing is there is next to no infrastructure to make it, transport it on the roads, store it in high pressure containers in the ground or have it easy to deliver by a customer. None of it is cheap. LPG cars taught us that people do not like filling their vehicles up with high pressure gas. Everyone can plug in a toaster. Why not just use the electricity direct? I know battery tech is not quite there yet, but put solar on the roof of your barn, charge your tractor, avoid all the middle men wanting to make money from you entirely. No new giant hydrogen factories, no diesel burning trucks on the road to transport it.
@@ForeverNeverwhere1 Stop making sense. You're killing the facade. 🤫 (2021 here in Au H2 was the next big thing, Government bought fleets of cars, Net Zero con artists made a fortune, they all now sit barely used in basement carparks with 'let's never speak of this again' stickers on them replaced with EV's as the H2 pump price per kilo is equivalent to fresh seafood and there are no convenient public pumps anyway. Your analogy with LPG is spot on. Au has an abundance of it, it's a waste product, we sell it to Japan for 2c/l delivered but it's getting harder to find a retail outlet. LPG only cars here now have the same range anxiety issues that EV's once had. 20 years ago there were LPG conversion shops on every second corner, every service station had a pump, GM and Ford had LPG fitment from the factory. Now it's near extinct. Sadly H2 simply cannot logistically work.)
Agreed. This tech is just pushing the inefficiencies down the road so you will need 3 x or more the renewables infrastructure to create the h2 to use in the tractor. It’s idiotic. In presentations like this they need to spell out the benefits over batteries because at this stage it’s glaringly obvious that h2 is a complete loser
@@ForeverNeverwhere1 I knew a guy at National Grid, and it was like our 12 years ago when he said to me, the idea of the national grid having mega batteries was a non-starter because of cost and degradation of batteries, however using Nuclear to power the known usage daily, and then the more wind and solar wouldn't be wasted like we have at the moment, instead it would be considered excess energy and converted to hydrogen, which is more easily stored and has a load of uses such as hydrogen vehicles, use instead of natural gas etc. He did mentioned 30-40% efficiency, but due to our losses of green energy this would actually be considered a saving, because it wouldn't be effectively thrown away. He was really smart and was very honest about all the hydrogen problems to be overcome, but said the possibilities could be huge, even said if hydrogen generation was compact enough, it could be done locally to it's usage, i.e. you could fill up hydrogen tanks at a fueling station meaning hydrogen transport via trucks would be non-existent. Wish I'd asked more questions, but he was always a smart and honest guy, it seemed like his desire was to make green energy more useable.
The main challenge for JCB and others in the hydrogen space lies in its cost relative to diesel or simply storing electricity in a battery. Producing green hydrogen requires significant amounts of green electricity, and currently, it takes about three times more electricity to perform the same task using green hydrogen compared to batteries. This means three times the cost of electricity, three times the demand for electricity generation, and a much larger infrastructure of powerlines-all of which are increasingly expensive to implement. On top of that, there’s the substantial cost of establishing green hydrogen production facilities and transporting the fuel via tankers. While none of these hurdles are insurmountable, they do eat into hydrogen's cost-effectiveness and efficiency compared to directly using green electricity in batteries. At the same time, battery technology is following a similar trajectory to solar PV: as research and development flourish, production scales up, and costs are rapidly decreasing. While there are current limitations that make batteries less practical on construction sites, these obstacles may disappear within 5-10 years as the technology continues to advance. Massive R&D investments are driving rapid improvements in battery performance and manufacturing efficiency. I’m a fan of JCB and applaud the innovation from this British company. However, I can’t help but feel their push toward hydrogen may be influenced by the desire to maintain their existing engine production processes, thereby avoiding the significant challenges associated with transforming their business model. As an aside, JCB already produces a battery-powered digger that can reportedly work a full day, albeit on a smaller scale. Many people seem to favor hydrogen because it feels familiar, but as this video demonstrates, there’s often a lack of in-depth analysis of how hydrogen stacks up against the relentless momentum of battery-electric technology. Driven largely by China’s massive production capabilities, batteries are becoming an almost unstoppable force in the energy sector. Hopefully, I’m wrong, and there’s room for both technologies to coexist. However, we shouldn’t fall into the trap of thinking that current limitations in battery technology will persist. A few years ago, battery-powered lorries seemed implausible, yet today we have several models that can operate continuously between tachograph breaks, with running costs far below diesel. JCB’s efforts are commendable, but we need to carefully evaluate whether hydrogen is a long-term solution or simply a way to delay the inevitable shift toward batteries.
Not only that, but they did not mention the overall thermal efficiency using H as a storage medium from an electrical input. A comparison between diesel fuel, electric traction on railways/tramways, battery electric etc would have been revealing. The only real benefit of using it is limited to some of the JCB products. To be fair, you have pointed this out, and it lines up with comments on similar schemes by some railway rolling stock manufacturers, such as those by Roger Ford in the Modern Railways magazine. Railway use of H as a medium is usually done via hydrogen fuel cells to churn out electric power, though, not modified IC engines. They are not much better thermally, though. The main benefit is use in some urban areas to minimise local pollution, and that’s about it.
Thank you for your very sensible a correct comment. Hydrogen for transport is hugely inefficient, nowhere that have tried Hydrogen buses including Mallorca where I like have favoured it over battery electric. I do wish Harry would speak to Michael Liebreich and be informed by someone who has no interest in one technology or another but is incredibly knowledgeable in the relative merits of one against another. For JCB maybe large road construction equipment in remote areas could be hydrogen, but even very large mines with huge equipment are going battery electric, its just cheaper and better.
Totally agree, just what i was thinking. If they can make huge quarry trucks work all day on batteries, why not JCB. The issue is that JCB doesn't make batteries or electric motors so they're trying to retain the status quo, like legacy auto, and look at the shite they're in now for not adapting fast enough. There's definitely a use case for remote places that may need work done but only temporarily, and that have no large power supply. I can't believe the comment at the end of the video about "Toyota have got the right idea" - how deluded!
Just how good are batteries really? They might be better than Hydrogen but Diesel still rules. I would like to read some impartial material about battery density in the real world. Any links would be welcome. I am a layman BTW, not a scientist!
@@ralphmillais5237 It sure does, when considering the energy content per unit weight/volume. It’s also possible to manufacture Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil (HVO) as a fuel for such engines, which might be a more practical route forward for the machinery made by JCB & others.
Fascinating to follow this story. A shame the hydrogen production cost question was so artfully side-stepped. Harry is chopping at the bit to get a hydrogen powered ‘something’ on the farm and run it through its paces. I can’t wait either.
With my chem industry past, I dont see this working. Compressed Hydrogen has a very low energy density compared to diesel, so transport cost will be huge as most of the 32ton wt allowed will be the pressure container. Second, suitable high pressure gas equipment is far more expensive to buy and maintenance requires a more expensively trained mechanic. Compared to diesel, the tractor would require about 3 times more back to the farmyard refueling than diesel and require operator certification to do so. Your storage tank would be far more expensive than a diesel one and require annual certification. Otherwise a nice green fuel that doesnt have an industry to make it yet, and a huge infrastructure investment for a bankrupt uk gov to subsidise. But I suppose itl be Blackrocks problem having bought all that inheritance tax land. Did I forget to mention a gas leak detection system to avoid your tractor shed going bang and frightening the neighbors? Sorry, just cant see it.
@@PeakTorque I should have mentioned the one good point about H2 fuel, travellers wont be nicking it! But my chemist brains been working overtime and I thought of this: Harrys growing 'weeds' for birds instead of a crop. If he combine harvested it, he would get bugger all 'hay' compared a crop. This 'hay' is made of C(MW12) and H2O(MW18) from the air, so theres 12/(12+18) fraction of C or 40%. by weight which equates to 44/12 times 40 or 146% of the weight of hay/straw as carbondioxide (CO2) . So by not growing crops, hes not trapping as much CO2 as if he planted a crop. Had to edit this as my pensioner brains trying to play online poker at the same time lol.
@@timjackson1904 but emitting less CO2 by not combining, cultivating etc with diesel. But i agree growing weeds for the lesser spotted hedge blue titted caterpillar habitat is wokedom beyond belief!
Is the roof mounted pressure vessel able to withstand the vehicle rolling over onto it? There is no “roll cage” around the vessel. Roll overs do happen.
The trouble is H2 will always be less efficient. For 100kwh generated electricity you will get 95kwh at the wheels for an EV, a hydrogen vehicle will be 30kwh at best. That makes it 3 times the cost to run.
You are correct, for a fuel cell electric vehicle, but it's even worse for a hydrogen combustion engine like JCB are promoting (BMW did one in the 2000's), 100kWh in, 10kWh out at the wheel, if you are lucky and able to run at the optimum RPM with limited idling. It will make the fuelling very, very expensive. No one in their right mind, having been shown the true pricing, will go for this, unless they are the kind of farmer with a garage full of exotic sports cars ...
@@brushlessmotoringYou’re working on the assumption that a battery powered tractor with a capacity that allows it to run all day is realistic possibility
@@benjaminb4056 exactly. We have no mature fuel cell or hydrogen burning engine tech to compare against diesel, Batteries are much further along (largely due to latops/tablets/phones R&D billions) and the fact that batteries use is a mature tech, much older than even diesel.
So why pay wind farms not to generate electricity? The problem is not the engineering and thermodynamic facts but the politicians who can't see the bigger picture.
Need to know how much electricity goes into that diagram. My understanding is the 'green' hydrogen creation is quite energy inefficient, and is only low carbon if you discount the manufacturing carbon of the generation source. Still seems like a bit of a Rube Goldberg machine to me.
The electrical grid is only getting more green, whereas hydrocarbons will always emit CO2. By people stumping up the money for their vision of the future, that encourages others to invest in the surrounding infrastructure required.
At least a Rube Goldberg machine is fun to watch, this is just depressing, especially seeing intelligent and articulate men like Harry get roped into stumping for this nonsense. Hydrogen combustion is especially inefficient, even more so than fuel cells, so you are looking at 1/10th return on input energy, a fuel cell is around 1/3rd input (assuming 75% efficient electrolyzer), and you are correct, using the UK grid to make "green" hydrogen to then waste it further in a combustion engine will emit far more CO2 and about the same amount of NOx (but untreated) as diesel farm machinery. The smart money is on batteries, despite the lies told about them in this very video, it will take time to reach all segments, but the small back hoe show here is already electric from some manufacturers.
It’s the cost of energy input that matters not the amount. Soon enough we’ll have ubiquitous waste electricity available to deploy, and we already do in some regions
More than likely there are 2 such shifts a day and maybe even 3 if they're 24hr sites. So the machine has to be ready for each 8hr shift. Seat will still be warm for the next guy 😂
You asked Lord Bamford how do you make hydrogen efficiently and he said his engine is as efficient as a diesel engine. The truer answer is you can't make H2 efficiently, most of it is made not from electricity or H2 wells but from reforming natural gas. Converting natural gas from Ch4 to H2 is not efficient so it would be better to use CH4 in their engines. Added bonus of using CH4 is we already have the distribution network going to almost every home and farm. The excess wind power problem is similarly solved with CH4 as easily as with H2, the Sabatier process converts electricity to natural gas and the "releases CO2" argument is not valid since the same amount of released CO2 is sucked out of the atmosphere in the production process so it is carbon neutral. One more argument of CH4 Vs H2 is the molecule's size, H2 is very hard to contain, it seeps through steel containers so if you leave your combine with H2 in it there will be none left next year.
NH3 has a brighter future than H2, more energy dense and easier to handle. I also cringed when he suggested adding scent to H2. Purity is incredibly important to fuel cells. I appreciate the main crux if the video was combustion but from an H2 producer perspective it's a no no
@@jonnyleslie1 NH3 is better than H2 on power density, but still way behind liquid hydrocarbons, but after you look at the effects exposure to NH3 has on the human body you wouldn't be all that anxious to have it around in large quantities. It reacts vigorously with water on contact, water like the surface of the eyes and the inside of the lungs...
let them day dream away, they say EV can't do the job...why do tractors drive around with a clonking great weight on the front....mmmmm couldn't that be a ....(coughs) a battery?, and could old Jeremy Clarkson have 6 batteries, all charging off peak or using solar on the roofs of his buildings, or use one of his fields for bees etc.... these fume puffers can't help burning shit.
A hydrogen engine may not emit CO, CO2 but it will still emit NOx. Also, thermal engines are only 50% efficient at best. These are the reasons I believe hydrogen in IC engines does not hold much promise compared to bevs
I'd have a lot more confidence if the people at JCB were able to listen to, and answer questions, instead of spouting vanilla marketing waffle. Doesn't really inspire confidence.
I noticed this, it was a funny dynamic of not really listening or letting Harry think to then ask questions. Good tech though. As long as the 350bar tanks prove to be safe long term.
The jcb engineers are leading zero carbon fuel future its minority in uk that are holding them back we are fast falling behind europe, fendt and man and daf paccar are already using green hydrogen to power heavy machinery it only emits water trains and ship engines manufacturers will be next to use it as its better for large machinery power.
Fuel tank on the roof - there was an episode of Dad's Army where Jones the Butcher's van had a great bag of town gas on the roof. JCB's looks more secure.
The price on the dispenser (5:17) was £4.45 for 0.19 kg, so the price is £23.40 per kg and not 23.40 pence per kg and that equates to about £7.09 per litre of diesel. 1kg of hydrogen = 33kwh, 1 litre diesel = 10 kwh. So 1 kg of hydrogen is the equivalent of 3.3 litres of diesel. £23.4 / 3.3 = £7.09 Apparently the density of gaseous hydrogen @ 350bar = 26.1 kg per 1,000 litres. So 1kg @350bar needs 38.3 litres of storage space. (Figures subject to rechecking)
1 kg of diesel is about 46kw/h, a litre about 40. You only get down to 10kw/h putting it through the losses of the engine. Likewise the hydrogen will lose a lot of its energy when actually put to use. You would be lucky to get 15kwh useful work out of a kg of hydrogen.
@ 1kg of diesel is about 11.76 kWh. But that’s the gross calorific value. The kinetic energy produced by diesel engines will be less than half of the fuels calorific value.
@@coffeebuzzzthe normal retort would be is: there are times when the wind is blowing hard or it’s late at night and it electricity is free, but you have to fill these things up every single day. Otherwise they boil off the hydrogen. Also, what happens when every farmer has these nighttime electricity won’t be free anymore.
Glad you are pursuing this theme and nicely topped off with that chat on the settee with Lord B. Thorougly enjoy the HF series and looking forward to following your progress in 2025. Seasons Greetings .......
As a separate comment to help the algorithm: if I could give Lord Bamford a handshake and a heartfelt thank-you for being part of the solution, alongside his family, I would. Sadly I’m a nobody and across the pond. So thank you again, Harry.
Josh, I too, am across 'The Pond' and dismayed by the "electric prayers' of those fanatics who play with battery toys and utterly fail to understand the gross inefficiencies of battery electric. Go ahead Harry and buy... or procure a Fast Trac. Bamfords are really approachable, as my brother realised, when he was 2 Fast Tracs and a boom loader. Sadly, he passed away too early. These things happen.
No, he really isn't, Joshua, as for Years he's been a very generous sponsor of our 'Conservative' Party, who have spent the last 14 Years being the most Corrupt, incompetent and catastrophically damaging Government in our Modern History.
Wasn't Bamford a backer/financer of the Brexit campaign? I applaud his drive towards Hydrogen as an alternative fuel, but wouldn't Britain have benefited from still being in the EU?
@ I’d trust you or anyone else to know more about that than I do. I’m not British or a farmer so Harry’s videos including Lord Bamford are my sole exposure to the man. I think it’s critical to remember that while human nature doesn’t change, individual people do, and they have complex motivations for what they do. It’s possible to have done something obviously bad, and to be doing something obviously good, and for one to not be weighed against the other. We kinda can’t. We don’t live in a fictional world where the good guys make the right decisions and the bad guys don’t. Oftentimes we see bad guys make good decisions and good guys make bad ones. Brexit was a massive mistake. As an American, I understand the mud that can be flung back at me and my countrymen on their past and recent voting activity as well. Not everyone operates in good faith. My impression of Lord Bamford in these videos on using hydrogen in commercial, industrial vehicles is that he’s participating and leading the development of hydrogen power trains in good faith. I don’t know the man or his motivations.
@@JoshuaKoernerI applaud Lord JCB for pursuing a low carbon solution to a problem. The H2 tech involved is sound. It's the choice of how they are going to be powered that is the critical failure. It's all about the thermodynamics and economics and the economics and thermodynamics are not on the side of H2. They have bet on the wrong horse and will pay dearly. Moving into the H2 gas distribution market will bankrupt them. They are banking on massive subsidy, but there is no equivalent of the Inflation Reduction Act on this side of the pond.
Hydrogen will struggle to replace anything due to the the amount of energy that you have to put into making it , been saying for ages things like wind power should be used to make e-fuels etc
because thats really a after proven capability thing... and honestly has already been proven where the electricity will come from... alot of solar / wind farms get restricted / stopped at parts of the day or even whole days..... hydrogen acts as a battery.... so you could keep them solar farm's runnings from the load of one of these OR you could use the wind power durring the night that otherwise would've sat idle..... so even if this station is running of a coal plant its more about showing the govt look this is what can be done to get funding..... aka busses and also allows JCB to test new engines or systems that use the hydrogen.
I’m impressed that JCB have done all of this work. What worries me is that if you are in a competitive situation, a diesel powered vehicle will always win. This is where useless politicians come in. They’d do the equivalent of chopping the legs of the fastest racehorse and then actually try and tell you that previously slowest horses are now faster. Net zero is the fastest way to no industry, no jobs and no economy. The good news though is that gypos are unlikely to steal a hydrogen powered digger. NB. Water is stable because the hydrogen is really tightly bound to oxygen. It requires more energy to split the two than you’ll ever get back.
@@Trevor_Austin I'd agree with everything you've said except the 'net zero' bit. Green jobs grew at 6.5% last year as opposed to other vacancies, which only slightly (0.5%) up ticked - that's LinkedIn's annual analysis. I'm glad the new govt is going balls-out on renewables, and I'm bloody apoplectic that they're giving more billions to big oil for H2 and CCS. Green industry is a first-mover industrial revolution, and China has already lined its (mandarin) ducks up and nailed them on the walls of automakers and governments globally.
Harry the H2 fuel costs far more to make than it's value. The H2 industries in Norway and Germany are now collapsing. The calorific value of H2 is very poor. It's a nightmare to store as it runs away though welds and ruins pipes. If companies want to do the research that's great but with present knowledge it's not going to work.
If a combine harvester runs in average at 50% power (300-400hp) he would consume one of these boxy trailers in about 2 hours. When you know that these run 16 hours and more a day in the busy days, you would need 8 of these trailers every day for 1 to 2 months straight. They better have their own production on site as there is no way they can keep trucking this in.
Most of UK farms are close enough to a power grid that you could combine with a cord hanging from some drone. Go with high enough voltage and your cord won't be very thick either. 😅
Well the biggest plant all runs on electricity. Also the maintenance on hp cylinders is more than builders or farmers are used too. Maybe come up with a universal 10/30kg cascade that can be hot swapped. But I don’t understand why jcb insists on burning hydrogen vs a fuel cell, the costs of pumping to 700 bar are astronomical.
Because they already make engines and have invested in that capability. They don't want to throw it away and start again with motors and fuel cells they'd have to buy from others.
I notice when anyone talks about hydrogen they always gloss over the business case. Now I know why, 23.40 GBP per Kg! The hydrogen Toyota Mirai has a 5.5 KG tank. That means it cost 128.70 GBP to fill up! The range is only 400 miles too, so it cost .3217 p per mile! If you use the average cost of electricity in England (.245 per kwh) and use a similar sized car efficiency of 3.2 miles per kWh, that means a BEV would cost .0765 per mile! What a difference! And most EV owners can charge at night paying significantly less than .245 p per kwh. Even if you can only D/C fast charge an ev and pay .80 p for kwh, it still comes to .25 per mile. This is a significant barrier that can't be glossed over.
There’s been hydrogen buses in Aberdeen for about 5 years. A few council Toyota Mirais around too. There’s also the H100 project in Fife to heat homes with hydrogen.
Same in Inverness. Hydrogen has been used in buses for 5 years. Having said that Stagecoach are running a local fleet of all electric buses now. Why are they making out that this is new news 🤷♂️ Toyota Mirai hydrogen fuel cell cars have been around for over a decade, and on generation 2.
@@gordonmackenzie4512 And they sold precisely 'None' of them, - because there aren't the massively expensive Refuelling stations, (And the few that there were have now mostly closed).
We are a long way off yet, I think the main issue now will be transportation and storage on site because a daily just in time delivery will not work. Nice work Lord B & great video Harry.
I'm not sold on the hydrogen route, for many reasons. However, I admire these captains of industry getting stuck in and having a go at finding solutions. I wish them every success and would be awesome if it works out.
@@bewater4732cost / efficiency vs electricity to name but 2. No mention of this in the video. Lord JCB mentioned H2 efficiency vs Diesel FFS. Harry doesn't have the knowledge or understanding to challenge this hyperbole... No mention of production/transport/pressurisation losses. Clueless. This will all end in 😢
@@djb4069 we already do have massive batteries, and they work just fine, especially in heavy machinery - you replace part of the counterweight with the battery pack, ideally a swappable one to solve the charging time. Hydrogen is a distraction, if JCB wants to go bankrupt in a decade or two, sad, but, so be it. Caterpillar, Volvo and many others are forging ahead with excavators, mining load haulers, and lots of other heavy machines using batteries, it's a solved problem, Scania have class 8 trucks already on the roads, it's done, meanwhile these folks are still scratching their heads how to transport 5,000 psi hydrogen to a farm that already has electricity, storage batteries and solar generation. I get the sense this is a paid for ad, or at least a personal favour, no commercial farmer would consider hydrogen when they finally find out the price, and the UK doesn't have the EU writing the subsidy cheques for this boondoggle anymore.
It's also incredibly expensive to shut down wind turbines because there's not enough demand for the electricity needed. Turn the windmills off, or keep them running to produce hydrogen?
@@2212db wind turbines are rarely shut down due to lack of demand. Generally it’s due to lack of transmission. The power cannot be taken from where it is produced to where it is needed. So, unless you can site electrolysers right next to wind turbines (say, in the middle of the North Sea or the highlands of Scotland), this is a none starter.
@@gaz4695 fair enough, I could have worded that better. We've spent £1 billion in failing to transmit power at times when no one needs it. We've failed in many things, many times. Now might be a good time to invest in electrolysers closer to source?
@@2212db We do need grid-scale energy storage, and hydrogen is an option, but better ones that aren't as inefficient would be preferable. The Swiss have just completed a pumped hydro system that's too big for their entire country's needs so they're now able to "sell" the storage to the rest of Europe. These are expensive and take time, but investments like this pay off hugely in the future, and are 80% efficient.
Within the first 2 minutes I heard some nonsense about 'batteries being too heavy' and not up to power requirement for large machinery. You need to look at mining and see the scale of their battery machines. Hydrogen has some good points but overall, it is a dead end. On my small farmer I can carry a barrel of diesel around and fill my tractor if I run out, but this would not be possible with hydrogen. I would also not leave a hydrogen powered tractor in any barn due to potential leaks and fire. Then there is the cost of hydrogen. At least with a battery tractor I can hook it up to my solar panels. So it will be diesel for me for the foreseable future.
@@tbrowniscool in the case of mining companies it's so the mine doesn't fill with poisonous exhaust gasses. For mining load trucks that charge up as they descend with ore using the weight of the load, it's so they don't have buy fuel and brake pads / rotors when an electric drivetrain and battery can do the same work. Plenty of practical reasons to use battery electrics in heavy vehicle operations and mining has been electrified for a very long time. Hydrogen for vehicles, on the other hand, is completely and utterly pointless.
Sorry Harry but the physics buffs are correct. H2 is just not energy dense enough to use as a compressed gas and devilishly difficult to use as a liquid with the extreme low temperature required. A kilo of H2 is roughly equivalent to a kilo of petrol in energy density but try fitting 50 kilos of compressed H2 in your tractor and you’ll see that you’ll be towing a rather large trailer instead. LOVE the channel so keep it up 👍🏻
After working on a 350 bar water cutting/firefighting system for the last few years the idea of working with a highly flammable/explosive gas scares the hell out of me! It is well known that designers and engineers get things wrong as much as they get things right. Salespeople are very good at ignoring downsides to anything they see themselves earning money from and I am hearing and seeing a sales pitch more than a real world demonstration. As you say Harry, no mud anywhere, but we can smell the bullsh*t!
Yeah, 'just' 350bar is 5000psi, that makes a calor gas bottle or a tractor hydraulic hose look like low pressure. Then hoping to double it to 10,000psi is very scary. Think about how easy it would be to leak at those pressures. Apparently Nasa loses over 40% of it's Hydrogen, and if they lose that much, farms have no chance of keeping hold of it.
Fantastic again Harry, Why the TV channels cant produce such quality reporting shows how much people see & appreciate your genuine interest & unbiased reporting
Nowhere that I know of that has compared Hydrogen buses to Battery electric ones has stayed with the Hydrogen. As you say very expensive to run/service and also making Hydrogen is very expensive/complicated. Electricity is just there, charge up and go. Very little to service or break on a BEV .Schenzen a city much larger than London has has 100% electric buses for over 6 years.
Input energy is 48 to 56 kWh per kg of hydrogen electrolysed, ideally you have some use for the 20kWh of heat produced. Through combustion, you get 4 to 6 kWh back as work energy, and it's hard to do much with the waste heat in a vehicle, so 1/10th the energy in comes back. Add another 12kWh per kg if you liquefy it to transport it more efficiently than 100kg at a time on a full length gaseous hydrogen tube trailer (plus boil off losses from trying to keep at -253ºC) It's all pretty stupid. But I'm guess you already knew that.
We know hydrogen works well for a number of reasons. The real problem is the cost of converting it from H20 to H2 & O. It takes a huge amount of energy and that has always been the problem.
A few days ago I saw a video where a Land Rover, G Wagen and other 4x4 restorer has fitted a 4 cylinder JCB diesel engine to an old 1990's Land Rover Defender 110 station wagon with slight modification to make it fit and work. If they can fit the diesel engine there is potential to fit the hydrogen version of the engine as a retro fit engine.
I think on one of Harry’s first talks to Mr JCB he was modifying standard engines to run on it so fitters all over the world could service them,he’s moved on since then
The issue isn't the engine, it's that you need 3x the space or more to store the fuel vs diesel. Also hydrogen requires more energy to make it than is released when you burn it. But if a farm can cover marginal land in solar cells and a few wind turbines, than maybe it makes a lot of sense. If it can be financed.
The production costs of hydrogen are significantly higher compared to conventional fuels. The cost of a hydrogen gas station-equivalent fueling station is approximately ten times higher than that of diesel. A subpar car with a 0-60 mph acceleration time of over nine seconds and a fuel capacity of five to six kilograms of hydrogen, priced at around $80, would yield a driving range of approximately 400 miles. Increased performance may necessitate a substantial increase in fuel consumption.
So awesome to see JCB leading the way with a pragmatic, yet innovative environmentally friendly solution. Hopefully UK can catch up with EU on their support for this initiative. Lord Bramford I think Harry’s farm should be a pilot site for a complete hydrogen solution…free as part of your POC in UK! 😅
Wrong. Currently hydrogen can be got directly from fossil fuels -(natural gas) by process call reforming. But that produces same amount of CO2 as burning the gas anyway as LPG (or more) - so pointless as a net zero source. Might was well just continue to burn gas or oil. Green hydrogen can be made from electrolysis of water by electrical power. If you then choose to burn it in a combustion engine (really stupid) you will get about only 20% of the power output you would have got if you had used the electricity in a battery and motor instead of going to the hassle of turning electrical power into H2. In summary in world running on renewables (solar, wind) or nuclear you would need a world with solar or nuclear power FIVE times the size to run a H2 powered world compared to electric motor. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
@@bbbf09 If you look a the numbers from BMW's hydrogen 7 sedan in the 2000's, the efficiency of their hydrogen combustion engine was around 3.7kg/100km or 16.7 miles per kg, compared to a fuel cell sedan (Mirai) getting 1kg/100km or 62 miles per kg, this shows hydrogen combustion is maybe 3 times worse than a fuel cell at turning hydrogen into useable work power (the BMW was heavier than the Mirai), I think 10x the solar array is needed to go via hydrogen combustion vs. using 95% efficient batteries and an electric motor. It's even dumber than you think. I don't know why Harry is propping this charade up, but he is committed to it, this the second or third video showing the same demonstration engine and the same digger prototype, I guess there is a new government to con money out of? £23.40 per kg too, so that BMW hydrogen 7 car would cost £1.40 per mile, it had an 8kg liquid hydrogen tank, that would boil off after about 9 days.
@@brushlessmotoring I agee with you. I was being conservative in order to keep my arguments simple unbiased. I shoudl have said less than half. I think I saw some data on this engine that suggested it was a little more effiicient than the BMW . But of course it will never reach anywhere need a fuel cell. And H2+fuel cell is pretty dumb next to battery . Bringing a big H2 tank on site periodicaly to top up I can't see why you couldnt instead trailer in freshly charged batteries and swap out - or use to charge - and/or just get some cabling run on to site (mostly it can be done by planning - you know - enabling works!)
On the production of hydrogen I wonder how much electricity is used, couldn't hydrogen powered generators be used. I drove construction equipment on large road building sites, the Cat motor scrappers would be refueled over night and topped up mid day by bowser trucks. This could also be done with hydrogen tankers. Farmers could have storage tanks at the farm and a trailer mounted one for the fields. Though I wonder can the trailer one be filled from the farm tank or need it go to a depot. As for battery powered site equipment being silent, diesel ones are fitted with alarms. !!!!!! Thanks Harry great video as always
It takes around 50 kWh to produce 1 kg of hydrogen. At UK rates for electricity, I think it’s about £12 a kg of hydrogen . The bowers price was under £5.
The immense complexity making and delivering hydrogen makes it seem too difficult and expensive to succeed. The one certainty is that battery density is increasing and prices tumbling. The hydrogen atom will remain the same and always have the same storage capacity. In 2011 the Nissan Leaf had a 24kWh battery. When it ended production the same battery pack was 64kWh. Electric motors are very powerful and simple. Electric actuators can replace complex hydraulic systems. A much simpler machine can be built. Also, machines can be made with battery swapping so they can be used constantly like a battery drill. Finally, the Chinese are building and developing electric plant which will be cheaper to buy and run. We will see what cost conscious businesses decide to buy.
I really believe that one solution will not replace everything we use internal combustion for today. There’s a lot of folks on the internet who are fully convinced electric is the only possible way. I’m very thankful that you have kept your broader, truly journalistic perspective. These updates are very valuable. Thank you.
Meanwhile there is convinced that hydrogen is the answer to everything As they need to drive 2000 miles a day without stopping for more then 60 seconds
@ I think hydrogen has its place. I think consumers understand combustion cars best. As we see more EV adoption, consumers will have more comfort with EV’s. But EV’s work best when you can charge at home. Many don’t have a way to do that. Hydrogen combustion can pick that back up while retaining the 0-emissions vehicle goal. In my perfect world, consumers can choose their powertrain, and aren’t forced down “one right way.” There’s no “one right way,” of doing almost anything.
If you want to claim that batteries are too heavy, and maybe too expensive, for heavy-duty equipment, then what you probably need is batteries with higher power density, not hydrogen. You don't necessarily need such high energy density in these kinds of uses, as you would in cars or aircraft, as they are easier to recharge more frequently. Something along the general lines of supercapacitors might be the best thing, but production volumes need to be high enough, and sustained long enough, to bring costs down. I look for the boundaries between batteries (electrochemical cells) and supercapacitors (electrostatic cells) to become more blurred over time, and for a lot of the gray-area cell types to make their way into things such as farm equipment, lawn care tools, and small appliances. Even without that "blurring" I refer to, those uses are going to go electric pretty soon, but better-suited energy storage will help the transition.
Sorry but this is utter shite. Those working pressures are a complete joke. Hydrogen really isn't the future. I've worked in the forklift industry for 20 years and we already have 4 and 5 ton trucks with lion batteries that run for 2 shifts.
We have invested far too much in battery EVs. Great video. As a Chemist, I need to point out the energy density of hydrogen per unit volume, is dependent upon pressure, as the pressure increases, so the energy density goes up. A rough back of an envelope calculation, tells me that at the pressures discussed here, the energy density per unit volume will be greater than that of diesel. The missing link is the small modular nuclear reactor providing electricity to generate the hydrogen.
Well done Harry. Keep us updated. Very interesting. Let's hope the new year with your help pushes this technology foreward. Happy Christmas to you and your family. All the best for 2025😊
I’m glad someone is trying to find a solution. I’ve been saying for years that electric will not work when it comes to shipping and farming. Small city cars yes but anything bigger than that needs more work in my opinion. 700bar pressure for a road car 🤔. I dunno about you but I wouldn’t want someone crashing into the back of me with that kind of pressure in a tank 💥. Merry Christmas everyone ❤ My father tried to make a small hydrogen cell for his car once using thin stainless plates incased in a Tupperware container. It wasn’t exactly successful but he had the right idea.
Can’t believe Harry was so adamant about future of battery electric vehicles when their is do much in public domain to contradict his opinion. Here in Australia, how about a charger and truck with 6MW fast charge! “Developed by Fortescue Zero, the 6MW fast charger will be compatible with a wide range of battery electric heavy mining equipment and designed to meet all operational requirements. In announcing the ARENA funding, Fortescue Metals Chief Executive Officer, Dino Otranto said: “As part of our decarbonisation plan, we intend to roll out around 250 fast chargers of varying capacities across our iron ore operations before the end of this decade,” Mr Otranto said.
One big problem for any heavy machinery that moves away from Diesel, the suggested replacement energy sources aren't anywhere near as energy dense! That means you need to resupply/refuel/recharge a lot more often. That just isn't acceptable in most working situations.
As a commercial gas engineer I know I need to retrain to work with Hydrogen at high pressure. To put in perspective 300Bar was mentioned but that is 4300PSI (pounds per square inch) - massive! This is the problem with Hydrogen. I know a lot of very capable gas engineers who will not retrain to this gas due to the pressures. If the Hydrogen tank was to rupture at near empty there would be no tractor left....! Sorry Lord Bamford.
Are you trained or able to train for heat pumps, batteries and solar? That's the actual future, all this hydrogen talk is about delaying electrification, this is an old mans folly, and it will cost 10 times diesel if it ever makes it past "research" - feels like we've seen this dog and pony show for a decade now, and pitch was the pivot to hydrogen combustion - the most inefficient way to turn electricity into work - was that it was a simple switch, and while that might be true for the engine line, it is far from true for everything else.
Hydraulic systems on agricultural and industrial machines regulary run at 3000+ psi and hydrostatic drives run at even higher pressures. Hydraulic rams and hoses are manufactured to withstand these pressures. As long as the tanks are built to withstand the pressures involved, I can see no reason why hydrogen is not the future.
@@robertallen3441 hydrogen embrittles metal and eats through rubber and plastics, it is an escape artist like no other, it's a very different ballgame to hydraulic fluids which are chosen for the suitability under pressure.
Batteries are going to continue to improve, but it's difficult to see how hydrogen can improve to overcome the challenges of storage and the inefficiency in producing it from electricity.
Another superb video, full of great content and insight into Hydrogen. Again we seem to be so naive in the UK to think battery is the only solution but thanks to the Lord Bamford paving the way to Hydrogen.
I think it was a bad start in the area where they produced the hydrogen. The site was completely boarded up, which raised suspicions. I think Harry sensed something was off.
Thanks very much Harry! Really great to see your interest in this topic! You really are looking to understand how viable this whole option is! Let’s hope it can end up with financially viable solutions! Would be interesting if you could do a video, to comment on the whole financial viability topic, which seems to exercise people in the comments here! There is no opinion, with all of this. Numbers are numbers! Good luck with everything Harry and thank you again!!
Brilliant product excellent future fuel.hydrogen only emits water after combustion zeeo carbon emissions uk needs to be selling hydrogen on the forecourts for trucks and vehicles in the future Excellent innovative engineeering progression superb !.
I see green-hydrogen for ships, but the fact that batteries have come down in price by 51% in 2024 alone, that every market share globally and locally shows batteries growing stronger and stronger in market share and growing. 6min charge times for cars in 2025. Energy density growing by 25% in 2024 meaning lighter and lighter batteries. The fact that we are using 20% less electricity than we were in the 1980's. Everything is pointing to batteries for almost anything. Solar panels increasing in efficiency meaning less panels needed. All we have to do is look at the facts and they overwhelmingly point towards electricity. Even China is no longer backing hydrogen because to make hydrogen, you need to make electricity. Making hydrogen is less efficient than just using electricity.
As someone who has worked on ships and has an appreciation of the safety issues involved I can say that highly pressurised explosive gas with a tiny activation energy in necessarily compartmentalised watertight spaces is not a good idea. And that is before you consider the costs involved. When you have to move a quarter of a million tons of ship and cargo half way round the world the price of fuel is a very major consideration. Here was have a kilo of hydrogen costing £22. A ton of bunker fuel costs maybe £600. That isn't going to work.
This is a sad greenwash diversion. JCB have received cash from the government to allow internal combustion engines to be continued. The solution if hydrogen is part of the solution is to use it in fuel cells. Hydrogen has so many problems with efficiency, shipping and many other problems.
fantastic video. I work in the utilities sector and see a real future for LGV, HGV, plant and standby power generation in hydrogen. like diesel its easy to get to where and when its needed.
It could. As always - where's the fuel coming from and what will it cost? You can't bake a cake for less than the cost of the ingredients. You can't make green hydrogen cheaper than the cost of the electricity. That's why it'll fail, as it has been everywhere once the funding dries up.
Petrol really is the perfect fuel when you see the challenges dealing with everything else. I've never felt said concerned refuelling or carrying around petrol. However, the idea of high pressure storage of a highly flammable gas just seems a bit scary. I know that the tanks will be very strong but nonetheless..
If you want to know where high load diesel engines and fuels for them are going look at ship’s engines. Currently trials of methanol are underway to replace heavy fuel oil. Also I have seen ammonia being trialled but can’t see that catching on due to toxicity (same reason it’s not used for a refrigerant)
Another Bamford first. They are an inspiration to the thinking folk amongst us.... Thanks Harry, another great video. Mainstream broadcasters could take leaf from your channel, but they wont because it will upset the sponsors, shareholders and wokists. Good man 😊
I'd like to take my hat off to Lord Banford and his company for going down a more than sensible route of H2 and finding solutions to problems. Soft spoken, direct, very knowledgeable. Shame the past Governments and the present bunch of kinder garden kids have not done a single thing to push forward the infrastructure.
@@tomsdaddy JCB already sell battery mini diggers with tiny batteries, they don't sell Hydrogen ones yet. Other competitors are offering larger battery excavators today with all the specs.
Excellent video as all your videos are on both channels. I remain uncertain on one point however, (you asked the right question but didn’t get a clear answer), how is this form of power efficient if it requires electricity to power the electrolysis of water into hydrogen and oxygen?
Curious about the efficiency - somewhere someone is paying for that 3x or 4x loss in electrolysis and compression going from electricity to hydrogen. Once that goes commercial it'll be an interesting calculation for farmers to make - battery swap the harvester every 2-3 hours, or pay 4x as much consumption and refuel with hydrogen every 8 hours.
This is really disappointing. *EVERY* expert (and I don't mean industry "experts", but actual scientists, who're not in it for the money) knows that Hydrogen is a terrible choice for fuel. The efficiency of the entire Hydrogen-as-a-fuel chain is just really really poor (there are only a hand full of exceptions - farming is not one of them). I get that you're biased due to your history in motoring, but Hydrogen is unfortunately just a smoke screen from fossil fuel companies to delay the inevitable: The electrification of _all_ forms of transport and industry.
Ah yes, the good ol' Ad Quantum argument. Electrification will NOT take over ALL forms of transport and industry for one very simple reason that was articulated in this video: when batteries run out, you can't run a rescue vehicle in with more fuel to top it up. The vehicle has to be taken back to base and plugged in to a power supply. That simply doesn't work for the industrial customers that JCB is addressing and I'm sure that Ukraine could tell us that it wouldn't work in the war theatre.
Hydrogen is the future for heavy machinery on farms and construction sites. It could also replace diesel in the shipping industry, powering ships, trains, and trucks. The technology will be further developed, so hydrogen prices will come down. I also think that refueling and storage will improve massively, with companies like Toyota, Hyundai, JCB, Honda, and BMW investing in the future of hydrogen propulsion. Harry can't wait to see the first machines or tractors powered by hydrogen on your farm :)
Is the hydrogen system affected by ambient temperature? If it's in warm climates, does it store less fuel? I am guessing not, given the pressures involved
The hydrogen fantasy rolls on! Right at the start this article is full of inaccuracies. To say that batteries won't do the job is factually incorrect, as it is already being used in trucks and plant as well as aircraft, and with the battery development curve maturing rapidly and exponentially, the cost and gravimetric (NOT volumetric) energy density of batteries are only going to improve - the cost of batteries has plummeted this year alone thanks to China, and BYD and CATL are building manufacturing plant worldwide. H2 advocates love to give you the volumetric energy density, except they fail to include the containers and associated cooling hardware! H2 tanks for road vehicles are ridiculously huge because of the pressures (700 bar is 10,300 psi in a car!?) and insulation requirements. So that alone should be enough to tank this nonsense. However, let's continue. Globally, claims that hydrogen is zero emissions have been prevented by 'Well-to-Wheel' emissions accounting standards - ISO, EU, IEA, UNFCCC, EPA, World Bank... That means this 'all you need is water and electricity' trope is considered false and misleading. Unfortunately, it's the shaky foundation on which hydrogen stands. Multi-million dollar electrolysers do not appreciate being turned on and off, nor do their investors. But since they wear out with worrying regularity, it's something you'd need to factor in. Nor do charge points escape problems. Current research shows that the few charge points that exist commercially (as opposed to nursed single installations like Bamford's baby) are out of order almost half the time. Shell shut down their charging network because it was a commercial failure, and technical nightmare. Please show me where there are viable H2 charging networks? Anywhere in the world? Please alternatively show me 'trials' (read subsidised) of hydrogen electric vehicle fleets that have not been abandoned due to cost and/or unreliability? Imaginative accountancy on lifespans and maintenance have been the bait, and gullible local councils and journalists like this have taken it - until someone actually checks the bank balance. Hydrogen sadly cannot be produced at anything like the $1/kg often used in illustrative quotes. Hydrogen hates being transported, and escapes at every opportunity, unless it is already being vented to reduce inevitable pressure build ups in holding containers as they gradually warm. Given it's a potent greenhouse gas since it exacerbates existing GHG's in the atmosphere and it's highly explosive at a wide range of concentrations, it's hardly a contender for Green fuel of the year, is it? As always, proponents will trot out the 'spare renewables' mantra. Current hydrogen use is primarily by fossil fuel companies, with a large proportion used in enhanced gas & oil recovery - in other words, it's used to get the last dregs of oil out of wells. Since the vast (high 90's%) majority of hydrogen production is as a fossil fuel by-product or deliberate manufacture, it's no surprise that big oil likes the gas, which it can flare off like it does methane. Spare renewable energy doesn't exist - it is a precious resource that should be used directly or stored - which it can be in multiple ways, and more efficiently on a round-trip-efficiency measure.. Hydrogen does have some potential here, but even that use case is disappearing as alternative storage technologies meet the vast majority of industrial, commercial and domestic demand for heat and power. See Michael Liebreich's Hydrogen Ladder (v5.0 is the latest, I believe). Just to wrap up then - for transport (but other stuff as well) it doesn't deliver, it's always going to be too expensive cos of thermodynamics and chemistry, and even if it doesn't blow us into next year it will blow dumbass budget there. Stop burning stuff for fuel! So lift your jaw up off the ground, Harry's Farm, and stop being sucked in by a pet project that has exactly zero scalability. Do a bit of research, and you'll find what I say is verified by the major voices in the energy industry. Start with Mr. Liebreich, then jump to Michael Barnard. Our government's promise of billions to this nonsense is yet another fossil fuel subsidy that big oil's deep 'marketing' budgets have loosened through lobbyists.
@@martinjagfansmith and yet they are already a thing and amazing that petrolheads, even with the amazing advances in ICE technology believe that batteries will be the same in 30 years time as now. It is possible that batteries re not the whole solution but hydrogen is 0% of any solution.
Agreed. If he's worried about instant availability I suppose a hybrid with small engine for battery charging might work. That Canadian converting logging trucks to hybrids is an example.
😂Michael Barnard!!! He’s verbose and rude You’re missing the scenarios where electricity just isn’t available so you’re better off shipping in molecules
The pressures used on that hydrogen solution are quite frightening. 5000psi in the excavator and 10000psi in cars!! Ignore the flammability, those pressures are a potential bomb.
lol, lord Bamford has all his money offshore so he doesn’t pay tax, he’s resigned from the House of Lords and is also fighting HMRC ( tax office) over money owed
Very interesting video, some concerns around pressure relief on a vehicle and the possibility of leaks. H2 being problematic when escaping under high pressure.
Great to see the continued progress by JCB and Lord Bamford. This is what happens when someone who knows what they’re doing looks at a problem instead of politicians who don’t have a clue about the working world… Thanks for highlighting this Harry as ever 👍
No, this is sill politicking. You develop the tech that will then help the clueless politicians establish policy and you end up getting written into said policy. This is a strategic move.
Absolute rot: distribution is a nightmare, there's zero infrastructure, and being the smallest molecule it WILL always leak - this is a pipe dream pushed by the oil monopolies
This is brilliant and coming from a British firm as well How long before we see you doing a review with them on your farm??(If they let you borrow one that is)
Great video Harry
Can’t wait to see you trialing this system on your farm in 2025
Cost per run hour vs. diesel and battery will be interesting.
@@brushlessmotoring that's why it was mentioned 😂
It only works on shiny new machines that have never seen farm crud in their lives.
350bar gas tight connectors that are used almost daily will not survive a farm.
@@dougaltolan3017 When a user experiences downtime due to carelessness, they tend to learn quickly. That, and manufacturers of such connectors and sealing apparatus WILL design durability in, not only for the purpose of having satisfied end-users, but also to meet regulations and requirements. They aren't going to cheap out on materials, design, and construction when pressures of 5000+ psi are involved.
It simply wouldn't make sense given liability concerns.
With the price of hydrogen here in Au it currently costs about three times more per hour than diesel.
Storage is still a problem.
Hydrogen is made from electricity from the grid, to turn the energy from electricity into hydrogen is about 33% efficient, so it will always be a huge amount more expensive. Burn oil to generate electric, transport the electric to a hydrogen factory, transport the pressurised gas to a customer to use to replace some of the diesel you are trying to stop using. The other thing is there is next to no infrastructure to make it, transport it on the roads, store it in high pressure containers in the ground or have it easy to deliver by a customer. None of it is cheap. LPG cars taught us that people do not like filling their vehicles up with high pressure gas. Everyone can plug in a toaster.
Why not just use the electricity direct? I know battery tech is not quite there yet, but put solar on the roof of your barn, charge your tractor, avoid all the middle men wanting to make money from you entirely. No new giant hydrogen factories, no diesel burning trucks on the road to transport it.
@@ForeverNeverwhere1 Stop making sense. You're killing the facade. 🤫
(2021 here in Au H2 was the next big thing, Government bought fleets of cars, Net Zero con artists made a fortune, they all now sit barely used in basement carparks with 'let's never speak of this again' stickers on them replaced with EV's as the H2 pump price per kilo is equivalent to fresh seafood and there are no convenient public pumps anyway. Your analogy with LPG is spot on. Au has an abundance of it, it's a waste product, we sell it to Japan for 2c/l delivered but it's getting harder to find a retail outlet. LPG only cars here now have the same range anxiety issues that EV's once had. 20 years ago there were LPG conversion shops on every second corner, every service station had a pump, GM and Ford had LPG fitment from the factory. Now it's near extinct. Sadly H2 simply cannot logistically work.)
Agreed. This tech is just pushing the inefficiencies down the road so you will need 3 x or more the renewables infrastructure to create the h2 to use in the tractor. It’s idiotic. In presentations like this they need to spell out the benefits over batteries because at this stage it’s glaringly obvious that h2 is a complete loser
@@ForeverNeverwhere10:48
@@ForeverNeverwhere1 I knew a guy at National Grid, and it was like our 12 years ago when he said to me, the idea of the national grid having mega batteries was a non-starter because of cost and degradation of batteries, however using Nuclear to power the known usage daily, and then the more wind and solar wouldn't be wasted like we have at the moment, instead it would be considered excess energy and converted to hydrogen, which is more easily stored and has a load of uses such as hydrogen vehicles, use instead of natural gas etc. He did mentioned 30-40% efficiency, but due to our losses of green energy this would actually be considered a saving, because it wouldn't be effectively thrown away. He was really smart and was very honest about all the hydrogen problems to be overcome, but said the possibilities could be huge, even said if hydrogen generation was compact enough, it could be done locally to it's usage, i.e. you could fill up hydrogen tanks at a fueling station meaning hydrogen transport via trucks would be non-existent. Wish I'd asked more questions, but he was always a smart and honest guy, it seemed like his desire was to make green energy more useable.
The main challenge for JCB and others in the hydrogen space lies in its cost relative to diesel or simply storing electricity in a battery. Producing green hydrogen requires significant amounts of green electricity, and currently, it takes about three times more electricity to perform the same task using green hydrogen compared to batteries. This means three times the cost of electricity, three times the demand for electricity generation, and a much larger infrastructure of powerlines-all of which are increasingly expensive to implement.
On top of that, there’s the substantial cost of establishing green hydrogen production facilities and transporting the fuel via tankers. While none of these hurdles are insurmountable, they do eat into hydrogen's cost-effectiveness and efficiency compared to directly using green electricity in batteries.
At the same time, battery technology is following a similar trajectory to solar PV: as research and development flourish, production scales up, and costs are rapidly decreasing. While there are current limitations that make batteries less practical on construction sites, these obstacles may disappear within 5-10 years as the technology continues to advance. Massive R&D investments are driving rapid improvements in battery performance and manufacturing efficiency.
I’m a fan of JCB and applaud the innovation from this British company. However, I can’t help but feel their push toward hydrogen may be influenced by the desire to maintain their existing engine production processes, thereby avoiding the significant challenges associated with transforming their business model. As an aside, JCB already produces a battery-powered digger that can reportedly work a full day, albeit on a smaller scale.
Many people seem to favor hydrogen because it feels familiar, but as this video demonstrates, there’s often a lack of in-depth analysis of how hydrogen stacks up against the relentless momentum of battery-electric technology. Driven largely by China’s massive production capabilities, batteries are becoming an almost unstoppable force in the energy sector.
Hopefully, I’m wrong, and there’s room for both technologies to coexist. However, we shouldn’t fall into the trap of thinking that current limitations in battery technology will persist. A few years ago, battery-powered lorries seemed implausible, yet today we have several models that can operate continuously between tachograph breaks, with running costs far below diesel.
JCB’s efforts are commendable, but we need to carefully evaluate whether hydrogen is a long-term solution or simply a way to delay the inevitable shift toward batteries.
Not only that, but they did not mention the overall thermal efficiency using H as a storage medium from an electrical input. A comparison between diesel fuel, electric traction on railways/tramways, battery electric etc would have been revealing. The only real benefit of using it is limited to some of the JCB products. To be fair, you have pointed this out, and it lines up with comments on similar schemes by some railway rolling stock manufacturers, such as those by Roger Ford in the Modern Railways magazine.
Railway use of H as a medium is usually done via hydrogen fuel cells to churn out electric power, though, not modified IC engines. They are not much better thermally, though. The main benefit is use in some urban areas to minimise local pollution, and that’s about it.
Thank you for your very sensible a correct comment.
Hydrogen for transport is hugely inefficient, nowhere that have tried Hydrogen buses including Mallorca where I like have favoured it over battery electric.
I do wish Harry would speak to Michael Liebreich and be informed by someone who has no interest in one technology or another but is incredibly knowledgeable in the relative merits of one against another.
For JCB maybe large road construction equipment in remote areas could be hydrogen, but even very large mines with huge equipment are going battery electric, its just cheaper and better.
Totally agree, just what i was thinking. If they can make huge quarry trucks work all day on batteries, why not JCB. The issue is that JCB doesn't make batteries or electric motors so they're trying to retain the status quo, like legacy auto, and look at the shite they're in now for not adapting fast enough. There's definitely a use case for remote places that may need work done but only temporarily, and that have no large power supply. I can't believe the comment at the end of the video about "Toyota have got the right idea" - how deluded!
Just how good are batteries really? They might be better than Hydrogen but Diesel still rules. I would like to read some impartial material about battery density in the real world. Any links would be welcome. I am a layman BTW, not a scientist!
@@ralphmillais5237 It sure does, when considering the energy content per unit weight/volume. It’s also possible to manufacture Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil (HVO) as a fuel for such engines, which might be a more practical route forward for the machinery made by JCB & others.
Fascinating to follow this story. A shame the hydrogen production cost question was so artfully side-stepped.
Harry is chopping at the bit to get a hydrogen powered ‘something’ on the farm and run it through its paces. I can’t wait either.
will he he a ticket to fuel it as it is a ready made bomb i don't see the government letting farmers have bombs
With my chem industry past, I dont see this working. Compressed Hydrogen has a very low energy density compared to diesel, so transport cost will be huge as most of the 32ton wt allowed will be the pressure container. Second, suitable high pressure gas equipment is far more expensive to buy and maintenance requires a more expensively trained mechanic. Compared to diesel, the tractor would require about 3 times more back to the farmyard refueling than diesel and require operator certification to do so. Your storage tank would be far more expensive than a diesel one and require annual certification. Otherwise a nice green fuel that doesnt have an industry to make it yet, and a huge infrastructure investment for a bankrupt uk gov to subsidise. But I suppose itl be Blackrocks problem having bought all that inheritance tax land. Did I forget to mention a gas leak detection system to avoid your tractor shed going bang and frightening the neighbors? Sorry, just cant see it.
Cant vet any of this information 😂 but a great comment and most probably likely
@@PeakTorque I should have mentioned the one good point about H2 fuel, travellers wont be nicking it! But my chemist brains been working overtime and I thought of this: Harrys growing 'weeds' for birds instead of a crop. If he combine harvested it, he would get bugger all 'hay' compared a crop. This 'hay' is made of C(MW12) and H2O(MW18) from the air, so theres 12/(12+18) fraction of C or 40%. by weight which equates to 44/12 times 40 or 146% of the weight of hay/straw as carbondioxide (CO2) . So by not growing crops, hes not trapping as much CO2 as if he planted a crop. Had to edit this as my pensioner brains trying to play online poker at the same time lol.
@@timjackson1904 but emitting less CO2 by not combining, cultivating etc with diesel. But i agree growing weeds for the lesser spotted hedge blue titted caterpillar habitat is wokedom beyond belief!
@@PeakTorque I can. He's not wrong.
Is the roof mounted pressure vessel able to withstand the vehicle rolling over onto it? There is no “roll cage” around the vessel. Roll overs do happen.
The trouble is H2 will always be less efficient. For 100kwh generated electricity you will get 95kwh at the wheels for an EV, a hydrogen vehicle will be 30kwh at best. That makes it 3 times the cost to run.
You are correct, for a fuel cell electric vehicle, but it's even worse for a hydrogen combustion engine like JCB are promoting (BMW did one in the 2000's), 100kWh in, 10kWh out at the wheel, if you are lucky and able to run at the optimum RPM with limited idling. It will make the fuelling very, very expensive. No one in their right mind, having been shown the true pricing, will go for this, unless they are the kind of farmer with a garage full of exotic sports cars ...
@brushlessmotoring as someone once said "it's the economy, stupid".
@@brushlessmotoringYou’re working on the assumption that a battery powered tractor with a capacity that allows it to run all day is realistic possibility
@@benjaminb4056 exactly. We have no mature fuel cell or hydrogen burning engine tech to compare against diesel, Batteries are much further along (largely due to latops/tablets/phones R&D billions) and the fact that batteries use is a mature tech, much older than even diesel.
So why pay wind farms not to generate electricity? The problem is not the engineering and thermodynamic facts but the politicians who can't see the bigger picture.
Need to know how much electricity goes into that diagram. My understanding is the 'green' hydrogen creation is quite energy inefficient, and is only low carbon if you discount the manufacturing carbon of the generation source.
Still seems like a bit of a Rube Goldberg machine to me.
The electrical grid is only getting more green, whereas hydrocarbons will always emit CO2. By people stumping up the money for their vision of the future, that encourages others to invest in the surrounding infrastructure required.
At least a Rube Goldberg machine is fun to watch, this is just depressing, especially seeing intelligent and articulate men like Harry get roped into stumping for this nonsense. Hydrogen combustion is especially inefficient, even more so than fuel cells, so you are looking at 1/10th return on input energy, a fuel cell is around 1/3rd input (assuming 75% efficient electrolyzer), and you are correct, using the UK grid to make "green" hydrogen to then waste it further in a combustion engine will emit far more CO2 and about the same amount of NOx (but untreated) as diesel farm machinery. The smart money is on batteries, despite the lies told about them in this very video, it will take time to reach all segments, but the small back hoe show here is already electric from some manufacturers.
Yeah the main thing is you get to paint your existing vehicles lary green and pretend you’ve done some real engineering.
It’s the cost of energy input that matters not the amount. Soon enough we’ll have ubiquitous waste electricity available to deploy, and we already do in some regions
Every time someone mentions an 8 hour shift Harry's thinking that's only half a day on a farm.
More than likely there are 2 such shifts a day and maybe even 3 if they're 24hr sites. So the machine has to be ready for each 8hr shift. Seat will still be warm for the next guy 😂
Good video as always and also a proof that the audience likes episodes that takes more than 15 minutes which is becoming the standard on UA-cam 🙏
You asked Lord Bamford how do you make hydrogen efficiently and he said his engine is as efficient as a diesel engine. The truer answer is you can't make H2 efficiently, most of it is made not from electricity or H2 wells but from reforming natural gas. Converting natural gas from Ch4 to H2 is not efficient so it would be better to use CH4 in their engines. Added bonus of using CH4 is we already have the distribution network going to almost every home and farm.
The excess wind power problem is similarly solved with CH4 as easily as with H2, the Sabatier process converts electricity to natural gas and the "releases CO2" argument is not valid since the same amount of released CO2 is sucked out of the atmosphere in the production process so it is carbon neutral.
One more argument of CH4 Vs H2 is the molecule's size, H2 is very hard to contain, it seeps through steel containers so if you leave your combine with H2 in it there will be none left next year.
NH3 has a brighter future than H2, more energy dense and easier to handle. I also cringed when he suggested adding scent to H2. Purity is incredibly important to fuel cells. I appreciate the main crux if the video was combustion but from an H2 producer perspective it's a no no
@@jonnyleslie1 NH3 is better than H2 on power density, but still way behind liquid hydrocarbons, but after you look at the effects exposure to NH3 has on the human body you wouldn't be all that anxious to have it around in large quantities. It reacts vigorously with water on contact, water like the surface of the eyes and the inside of the lungs...
let them day dream away, they say EV can't do the job...why do tractors drive around with a clonking great weight on the front....mmmmm couldn't that be a ....(coughs) a battery?, and could old Jeremy Clarkson have 6 batteries, all charging off peak or using solar on the roofs of his buildings, or use one of his fields for bees etc.... these fume puffers can't help burning shit.
You can do it with SOE from nuke electricity. Texas have just done that to all Amazon trucks in Texas
A hydrogen engine may not emit CO, CO2 but it will still emit NOx. Also, thermal engines are only 50% efficient at best. These are the reasons I believe hydrogen in IC engines does not hold much promise compared to bevs
I'd have a lot more confidence if the people at JCB were able to listen to, and answer questions, instead of spouting vanilla marketing waffle. Doesn't really inspire confidence.
The guys had such a weird rehearsed way of talking. You could tell it was annoying Harry that the guy wouldn't talk properly.
I noticed this, it was a funny dynamic of not really listening or letting Harry think to then ask questions.
Good tech though. As long as the 350bar tanks prove to be safe long term.
Its really bloody annoying, they are essentially reading rehearsed marketing tripe, making it sound like a sales pitch
The jcb engineers are leading zero carbon fuel future its minority in uk that are holding them back we are fast falling behind europe, fendt and man and daf paccar are already using green hydrogen to power heavy machinery it only emits water trains and ship engines manufacturers will be next to use it as its better for large machinery power.
Fuel tank on the roof - there was an episode of Dad's Army where Jones the Butcher's van had a great bag of town gas on the roof. JCB's looks more secure.
The price on the dispenser (5:17) was £4.45 for 0.19 kg, so the price is £23.40 per kg and not 23.40 pence per kg and that equates to about £7.09 per litre of diesel.
1kg of hydrogen = 33kwh, 1 litre diesel = 10 kwh. So 1 kg of hydrogen is the equivalent of 3.3 litres of diesel. £23.4 / 3.3 = £7.09
Apparently the density of gaseous hydrogen @ 350bar = 26.1 kg per 1,000 litres. So 1kg @350bar needs 38.3 litres of storage space.
(Figures subject to rechecking)
1 kg of diesel is about 46kw/h, a litre about 40. You only get down to 10kw/h putting it through the losses of the engine. Likewise the hydrogen will lose a lot of its energy when actually put to use. You would be lucky to get 15kwh useful work out of a kg of hydrogen.
@ 1kg of diesel is about 11.76 kWh. But that’s the gross calorific value. The kinetic energy produced by diesel engines will be less than half of the fuels calorific value.
@@nelsonglover3963 Look at my reply above. I already realised I was confusing the two. Funnily enough you have it backwards too.
A kWh is 3.6MJ.
Also remember, it takes about 50kWh of electricity to produce 1 kg of H2.
@@coffeebuzzzthe normal retort would be is: there are times when the wind is blowing hard or it’s late at night and it electricity is free, but you have to fill these things up every single day. Otherwise they boil off the hydrogen. Also, what happens when every farmer has these nighttime electricity won’t be free anymore.
Glad you are pursuing this theme and nicely topped off with that chat on the settee with Lord B.
Thorougly enjoy the HF series and looking forward to following your progress in 2025.
Seasons Greetings .......
As a separate comment to help the algorithm: if I could give Lord Bamford a handshake and a heartfelt thank-you for being part of the solution, alongside his family, I would. Sadly I’m a nobody and across the pond. So thank you again, Harry.
Josh, I too, am across 'The Pond' and dismayed by the "electric prayers' of those fanatics who play with battery toys and utterly fail to understand the gross inefficiencies of battery electric. Go ahead Harry and buy... or procure a Fast Trac. Bamfords are really approachable, as my brother realised, when he was 2 Fast Tracs and a boom loader. Sadly, he passed away too early. These things happen.
No, he really isn't, Joshua, as for Years he's been a very generous sponsor of our 'Conservative' Party, who have spent the last 14 Years being the most Corrupt, incompetent and catastrophically damaging Government in our Modern History.
Wasn't Bamford a backer/financer of the Brexit campaign?
I applaud his drive towards Hydrogen as an alternative fuel, but wouldn't Britain have benefited from still being in the EU?
@ I’d trust you or anyone else to know more about that than I do. I’m not British or a farmer so Harry’s videos including Lord Bamford are my sole exposure to the man. I think it’s critical to remember that while human nature doesn’t change, individual people do, and they have complex motivations for what they do. It’s possible to have done something obviously bad, and to be doing something obviously good, and for one to not be weighed against the other. We kinda can’t. We don’t live in a fictional world where the good guys make the right decisions and the bad guys don’t. Oftentimes we see bad guys make good decisions and good guys make bad ones. Brexit was a massive mistake. As an American, I understand the mud that can be flung back at me and my countrymen on their past and recent voting activity as well. Not everyone operates in good faith. My impression of Lord Bamford in these videos on using hydrogen in commercial, industrial vehicles is that he’s participating and leading the development of hydrogen power trains in good faith. I don’t know the man or his motivations.
@@JoshuaKoernerI applaud Lord JCB for pursuing a low carbon solution to a problem. The H2 tech involved is sound. It's the choice of how they are going to be powered that is the critical failure.
It's all about the thermodynamics and economics and the economics and thermodynamics are not on the side of H2.
They have bet on the wrong horse and will pay dearly.
Moving into the H2 gas distribution market will bankrupt them. They are banking on massive subsidy, but there is no equivalent of the Inflation Reduction Act on this side of the pond.
Hydrogen will struggle to replace anything due to the the amount of energy that you have to put into making it , been saying for ages things like wind power should be used to make e-fuels etc
The Lord seems to have evaded the question about how much electricity is used to extract the hydrogen and where that electricity comes from.
because thats really a after proven capability thing... and honestly has already been proven where the electricity will come from... alot of solar / wind farms get restricted / stopped at parts of the day or even whole days..... hydrogen acts as a battery.... so you could keep them solar farm's runnings from the load of one of these OR you could use the wind power durring the night that otherwise would've sat idle..... so even if this station is running of a coal plant its more about showing the govt look this is what can be done to get funding..... aka busses and also allows JCB to test new engines or systems that use the hydrogen.
Thanks for this video Harry. It's rare to get this level of insight into something that has the potential to be literally world-changing technology.
Harry, please talk to New Holland and try one of their T6.180 Methane powered tractors.
A methane tractor would be immeasurably better. Most farms could even use the methane produced by animals to drive the machines. Imagine that
And then we wouldn't need Bovaer additives to the feedstock..
I’m impressed that JCB have done all of this work. What worries me is that if you are in a competitive situation, a diesel powered vehicle will always win. This is where useless politicians come in. They’d do the equivalent of chopping the legs of the fastest racehorse and then actually try and tell you that previously slowest horses are now faster. Net zero is the fastest way to no industry, no jobs and no economy. The good news though is that gypos are unlikely to steal a hydrogen powered digger.
NB. Water is stable because the hydrogen is really tightly bound to oxygen. It requires more energy to split the two than you’ll ever get back.
@@Trevor_Austin I'd agree with everything you've said except the 'net zero' bit. Green jobs grew at 6.5% last year as opposed to other vacancies, which only slightly (0.5%) up ticked - that's LinkedIn's annual analysis. I'm glad the new govt is going balls-out on renewables, and I'm bloody apoplectic that they're giving more billions to big oil for H2 and CCS. Green industry is a first-mover industrial revolution, and China has already lined its (mandarin) ducks up and nailed them on the walls of automakers and governments globally.
Harry the H2 fuel costs far more to make than it's value. The H2 industries in Norway and Germany are now collapsing. The calorific value of H2 is very poor. It's a nightmare to store as it runs away though welds and ruins pipes.
If companies want to do the research that's great but with present knowledge it's not going to work.
Let’s just not bother trying to make it work then. keep burning dinosaur juice?
If a combine harvester runs in average at 50% power (300-400hp) he would consume one of these boxy trailers in about 2 hours. When you know that these run 16 hours and more a day in the busy days, you would need 8 of these trailers every day for 1 to 2 months straight.
They better have their own production on site as there is no way they can keep trucking this in.
now a smart farmer would do that i don't think the governments wants miss on all the vat of stuff changing hands
Most of UK farms are close enough to a power grid that you could combine with a cord hanging from some drone. Go with high enough voltage and your cord won't be very thick either. 😅
@@rkan2 think of all those lovely big sheds covered in solar panels, better than filling up a 1000ltr diesel tank😁
Well the biggest plant all runs on electricity. Also the maintenance on hp cylinders is more than builders or farmers are used too. Maybe come up with a universal 10/30kg cascade that can be hot swapped. But I don’t understand why jcb insists on burning hydrogen vs a fuel cell, the costs of pumping to 700 bar are astronomical.
IT'S NOT VERY "GREEN" IF YOU USE MORE ENERGY TO PRODUCE HYDROGEN THAN THE HYDROGEN ITSELF WILL PRODUCE.
Fuel Cells the way to go.
@@volvojohn9036shows how ignorant you are pal.
Because they already make engines and have invested in that capability. They don't want to throw it away and start again with motors and fuel cells they'd have to buy from others.
@@Oosh21 there is still time to pivot to full electric, but they have to let go their 1990's thinking about batteries first.
I notice when anyone talks about hydrogen they always gloss over the business case. Now I know why, 23.40 GBP per Kg! The hydrogen Toyota Mirai has a 5.5 KG tank. That means it cost 128.70 GBP to fill up! The range is only 400 miles too, so it cost .3217 p per mile! If you use the average cost of electricity in England (.245 per kwh) and use a similar sized car efficiency of 3.2 miles per kWh, that means a BEV would cost .0765 per mile! What a difference! And most EV owners can charge at night paying significantly less than .245 p per kwh. Even if you can only D/C fast charge an ev and pay .80 p for kwh, it still comes to .25 per mile. This is a significant barrier that can't be glossed over.
Not for construction vehicles that have to perform all day, plus costs will come down. JcB are not trying to sell you a hydrogen car
There’s been hydrogen buses in Aberdeen for about 5 years. A few council Toyota Mirais around too. There’s also the H100 project in Fife to heat homes with hydrogen.
Heating homes with hydrogen makes perfect sense
if
You current way of heating you home is by burning tenners
Otherwise it's bonkers
@ the cost is second on my list of reasons why I don’t want it in my (or my neighbours) house. 💥
Same in Inverness. Hydrogen has been used in buses for 5 years. Having said that Stagecoach are running a local fleet of all electric buses now. Why are they making out that this is new news 🤷♂️ Toyota Mirai hydrogen fuel cell cars have been around for over a decade, and on generation 2.
As I recall, John Clark BMW Aberdeen had hydrogen powered cars some years back on a promotional drive
@@gordonmackenzie4512 And they sold precisely 'None' of them, - because there aren't the massively expensive Refuelling stations, (And the few that there were have now mostly closed).
Good work Harry, excellent insight. Looking forward to watching you test a hydrogen tractor or combine on your channel in the near future.
We are a long way off yet, I think the main issue now will be transportation and storage on site because a daily just in time delivery will not work. Nice work Lord B & great video Harry.
I'm not sold on the hydrogen route, for many reasons.
However, I admire these captains of industry getting stuck in and having a go at finding solutions.
I wish them every success and would be awesome if it works out.
What do you see as the major issues ?
I can't believe your stupid statement, should we have massive batteries ???
@@bewater4732cost / efficiency vs electricity to name but 2. No mention of this in the video. Lord JCB mentioned H2 efficiency vs Diesel FFS.
Harry doesn't have the knowledge or understanding to challenge this hyperbole...
No mention of production/transport/pressurisation losses.
Clueless.
This will all end in 😢
@@djb4069 we already do have massive batteries, and they work just fine, especially in heavy machinery - you replace part of the counterweight with the battery pack, ideally a swappable one to solve the charging time.
Hydrogen is a distraction, if JCB wants to go bankrupt in a decade or two, sad, but, so be it. Caterpillar, Volvo and many others are forging ahead with excavators, mining load haulers, and lots of other heavy machines using batteries, it's a solved problem, Scania have class 8 trucks already on the roads, it's done, meanwhile these folks are still scratching their heads how to transport 5,000 psi hydrogen to a farm that already has electricity, storage batteries and solar generation.
I get the sense this is a paid for ad, or at least a personal favour, no commercial farmer would consider hydrogen when they finally find out the price, and the UK doesn't have the EU writing the subsidy cheques for this boondoggle anymore.
@@jonathancullen1337 Spot on, what was said in that PR video is far less important than everything they made sure was NOT said.
It's incredibly energy intensive to produce. No such thing as a free lunch in physics
It's also incredibly expensive to shut down wind turbines because there's not enough demand for the electricity needed.
Turn the windmills off, or keep them running to produce hydrogen?
@@2212db wind turbines are rarely shut down due to lack of demand. Generally it’s due to lack of transmission. The power cannot be taken from where it is produced to where it is needed. So, unless you can site electrolysers right next to wind turbines (say, in the middle of the North Sea or the highlands of Scotland), this is a none starter.
@@gaz4695 fair enough, I could have worded that better.
We've spent £1 billion in failing to transmit power at times when no one needs it.
We've failed in many things, many times.
Now might be a good time to invest in electrolysers closer to source?
@@2212db We do need grid-scale energy storage, and hydrogen is an option, but better ones that aren't as inefficient would be preferable. The Swiss have just completed a pumped hydro system that's too big for their entire country's needs so they're now able to "sell" the storage to the rest of Europe. These are expensive and take time, but investments like this pay off hugely in the future, and are 80% efficient.
@@2212db but fuel still has to be transported in heavy tanks
Within the first 2 minutes I heard some nonsense about 'batteries being too heavy' and not up to power requirement for large machinery. You need to look at mining and see the scale of their battery machines. Hydrogen has some good points but overall, it is a dead end. On my small farmer I can carry a barrel of diesel around and fill my tractor if I run out, but this would not be possible with hydrogen. I would also not leave a hydrogen powered tractor in any barn due to potential leaks and fire. Then there is the cost of hydrogen. At least with a battery tractor I can hook it up to my solar panels. So it will be diesel for me for the foreseable future.
These "green" initiatives are for big companies to look good. That's it
@@tbrowniscool in the case of mining companies it's so the mine doesn't fill with poisonous exhaust gasses. For mining load trucks that charge up as they descend with ore using the weight of the load, it's so they don't have buy fuel and brake pads / rotors when an electric drivetrain and battery can do the same work. Plenty of practical reasons to use battery electrics in heavy vehicle operations and mining has been electrified for a very long time.
Hydrogen for vehicles, on the other hand, is completely and utterly pointless.
Most large machinery stays rather stationary so even cords would make much more sense than hydrogen. 😂
@@rkan2 Only if near a supply
Sorry Harry but the physics buffs are correct. H2 is just not energy dense enough to use as a compressed gas and devilishly difficult to use as a liquid with the extreme low temperature required. A kilo of H2 is roughly equivalent to a kilo of petrol in energy density but try fitting 50 kilos of compressed H2 in your tractor and you’ll see that you’ll be towing a rather large trailer instead.
LOVE the channel so keep it up 👍🏻
Doesn't have to be in form of H2, it can be used as DME. There are synthetic DME and if you want to run it as fuel cell, you can use hydrigen as LOHC
With such high pressure nobody has talked about the tank or hose breaking and the possible explosive effects
After working on a 350 bar water cutting/firefighting system for the last few years the idea of working with a highly flammable/explosive gas scares the hell out of me!
It is well known that designers and engineers get things wrong as much as they get things right. Salespeople are very good at ignoring downsides to anything they see themselves earning money from and I am hearing and seeing a sales pitch more than a real world demonstration. As you say Harry, no mud anywhere, but we can smell the bullsh*t!
Yeah, 'just' 350bar is 5000psi, that makes a calor gas bottle or a tractor hydraulic hose look like low pressure. Then hoping to double it to 10,000psi is very scary. Think about how easy it would be to leak at those pressures. Apparently Nasa loses over 40% of it's Hydrogen, and if they lose that much, farms have no chance of keeping hold of it.
Fantastic again Harry,
Why the TV channels cant produce such quality reporting shows how much people see & appreciate your genuine interest & unbiased reporting
When he says this egg me is just as efficient as a diesel the response would be so it’s about 30% efficient then.
When he state this engine is just as efficient as a diesel the response should have been, so about 30% efficient then.
The MSM in the UK is controlled and cant challenge the narrative
The hydrogen buses in Birmingham are cripplingly expensive to run
Nowhere that I know of that has compared Hydrogen buses to Battery electric ones has stayed with the Hydrogen. As you say very expensive to run/service and also making Hydrogen is very expensive/complicated. Electricity is just there, charge up and go. Very little to service or break on a BEV .Schenzen a city much larger than London has has 100% electric buses for over 6 years.
Agreed, a building site I can see hydrogen might work if we can make it in a green way, but the bus simply needs to be electric.
How much Electricity is used to make the Hydrogen ???
About 50 kWh of electricity is needed to make 1kg of hydrogen from water.
Input energy is 48 to 56 kWh per kg of hydrogen electrolysed, ideally you have some use for the 20kWh of heat produced. Through combustion, you get 4 to 6 kWh back as work energy, and it's hard to do much with the waste heat in a vehicle, so 1/10th the energy in comes back. Add another 12kWh per kg if you liquefy it to transport it more efficiently than 100kg at a time on a full length gaseous hydrogen tube trailer (plus boil off losses from trying to keep at -253ºC)
It's all pretty stupid. But I'm guess you already knew that.
We know hydrogen works well for a number of reasons. The real problem is the cost of converting it from H20 to H2 & O. It takes a huge amount of energy and that has always been the problem.
A few days ago I saw a video where a Land Rover, G Wagen and other 4x4 restorer has fitted a 4 cylinder JCB diesel engine to an old 1990's Land Rover Defender 110 station wagon with slight modification to make it fit and work. If they can fit the diesel engine there is potential to fit the hydrogen version of the engine as a retro fit engine.
I think on one of Harry’s first talks to Mr JCB he was modifying standard engines to run on it so fitters all over the world could service them,he’s moved on since then
I saw that video & thought it was a pretty pointless conversion. The same result could have been achieved using a tuned TD5.
The issue isn't the engine, it's that you need 3x the space or more to store the fuel vs diesel. Also hydrogen requires more energy to make it than is released when you burn it. But if a farm can cover marginal land in solar cells and a few wind turbines, than maybe it makes a lot of sense. If it can be financed.
The production costs of hydrogen are significantly higher compared to conventional fuels. The cost of a hydrogen gas station-equivalent fueling station is approximately ten times higher than that of diesel. A subpar car with a 0-60 mph acceleration time of over nine seconds and a fuel capacity of five to six kilograms of hydrogen, priced at around $80, would yield a driving range of approximately 400 miles. Increased performance may necessitate a substantial increase in fuel consumption.
Lol so you spend all that money for a 100mile range ?
So awesome to see JCB leading the way with a pragmatic, yet innovative environmentally friendly solution. Hopefully UK can catch up with EU on their support for this initiative. Lord Bramford I think Harry’s farm should be a pilot site for a complete hydrogen solution…free as part of your POC in UK! 😅
Hey here is a small bit of science for you H. Hydrogen in air at sea level is
Wrong.
Currently hydrogen can be got directly from fossil fuels -(natural gas) by process call reforming. But that produces same amount of CO2 as burning the gas anyway as LPG (or more) - so pointless as a net zero source. Might was well just continue to burn gas or oil.
Green hydrogen can be made from electrolysis of water by electrical power. If you then choose to burn it in a combustion engine (really stupid) you will get about only 20% of the power output you would have got if you had used the electricity in a battery and motor instead of going to the hassle of turning electrical power into H2.
In summary in world running on renewables (solar, wind) or nuclear you would need a world with solar or nuclear power FIVE times the size to run a H2 powered world compared to electric motor. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
@@bbbf09 If you look a the numbers from BMW's hydrogen 7 sedan in the 2000's, the efficiency of their hydrogen combustion engine was around 3.7kg/100km or 16.7 miles per kg, compared to a fuel cell sedan (Mirai) getting 1kg/100km or 62 miles per kg, this shows hydrogen combustion is maybe 3 times worse than a fuel cell at turning hydrogen into useable work power (the BMW was heavier than the Mirai), I think 10x the solar array is needed to go via hydrogen combustion vs. using 95% efficient batteries and an electric motor. It's even dumber than you think. I don't know why Harry is propping this charade up, but he is committed to it, this the second or third video showing the same demonstration engine and the same digger prototype, I guess there is a new government to con money out of?
£23.40 per kg too, so that BMW hydrogen 7 car would cost £1.40 per mile, it had an 8kg liquid hydrogen tank, that would boil off after about 9 days.
@@brushlessmotoring I agee with you. I was being conservative in order to keep my arguments simple unbiased. I shoudl have said less than half.
I think I saw some data on this engine that suggested it was a little more effiicient than the BMW . But of course it will never reach anywhere need a fuel cell.
And H2+fuel cell is pretty dumb next to battery . Bringing a big H2 tank on site periodicaly to top up I can't see why you couldnt instead trailer in freshly charged batteries and swap out - or use to charge - and/or just get some cabling run on to site (mostly it can be done by planning - you know - enabling works!)
Presumably, with the black tank on the roof, in the middle of summer when it is scalding hot, it will not hold as much hydrogen.
On the production of hydrogen I wonder how much electricity is used, couldn't hydrogen powered generators be used.
I drove construction equipment on large road building sites, the Cat motor scrappers would be refueled over night and topped up mid day by bowser trucks. This could also be done with hydrogen tankers.
Farmers could have storage tanks at the farm and a trailer mounted one for the fields. Though I wonder can the trailer one be filled from the farm tank or need it go to a depot.
As for battery powered site equipment being silent, diesel ones are fitted with alarms. !!!!!!
Thanks Harry great video as always
It takes around 50 kWh to produce 1 kg of hydrogen. At UK rates for electricity, I think it’s about £12 a kg of hydrogen . The bowers price was under £5.
The immense complexity making and delivering hydrogen makes it seem too difficult and expensive to succeed.
The one certainty is that battery density is increasing and prices tumbling. The hydrogen atom will remain the same and always have the same storage capacity. In 2011 the Nissan Leaf had a 24kWh battery. When it ended production the same battery pack was 64kWh.
Electric motors are very powerful and simple. Electric actuators can replace complex hydraulic systems. A much simpler machine can be built.
Also, machines can be made with battery swapping so they can be used constantly like a battery drill.
Finally, the Chinese are building and developing electric plant which will be cheaper to buy and run. We will see what cost conscious businesses decide to buy.
I really believe that one solution will not replace everything we use internal combustion for today. There’s a lot of folks on the internet who are fully convinced electric is the only possible way. I’m very thankful that you have kept your broader, truly journalistic perspective. These updates are very valuable. Thank you.
Meanwhile there is convinced that hydrogen is the answer to everything
As they need to drive 2000 miles a day without stopping for more then 60 seconds
We are not. Every tractor can run on various greenfuels. Without the need to replace heavy og expensive machinery.
@ I think hydrogen has its place. I think consumers understand combustion cars best. As we see more EV adoption, consumers will have more comfort with EV’s. But EV’s work best when you can charge at home. Many don’t have a way to do that. Hydrogen combustion can pick that back up while retaining the 0-emissions vehicle goal.
In my perfect world, consumers can choose their powertrain, and aren’t forced down “one right way.” There’s no “one right way,” of doing almost anything.
@@JoshuaKoerner do you think they going to give farmers enough stored hydrogen to power a combine for a day stored hydrogen is a ready made bomb
If you want to claim that batteries are too heavy, and maybe too expensive, for heavy-duty equipment, then what you probably need is batteries with higher power density, not hydrogen. You don't necessarily need such high energy density in these kinds of uses, as you would in cars or aircraft, as they are easier to recharge more frequently. Something along the general lines of supercapacitors might be the best thing, but production volumes need to be high enough, and sustained long enough, to bring costs down. I look for the boundaries between batteries (electrochemical cells) and supercapacitors (electrostatic cells) to become more blurred over time, and for a lot of the gray-area cell types to make their way into things such as farm equipment, lawn care tools, and small appliances. Even without that "blurring" I refer to, those uses are going to go electric pretty soon, but better-suited energy storage will help the transition.
Sorry but this is utter shite. Those working pressures are a complete joke. Hydrogen really isn't the future. I've worked in the forklift industry for 20 years and we already have 4 and 5 ton trucks with lion batteries that run for 2 shifts.
And they have hydrogen forklifts for certain applications. Hydrogen and BE aren’t perfect substitutes. It’s not like VHS and Betamax
We have invested far too much in battery EVs. Great video. As a Chemist, I need to point out the energy density of hydrogen per unit volume, is dependent upon pressure, as the pressure increases, so the energy density goes up. A rough back of an envelope calculation, tells me that at the pressures discussed here, the energy density per unit volume will be greater than that of diesel. The missing link is the small modular nuclear reactor providing electricity to generate the hydrogen.
We’ve had hydrogen buses in Scotland for about 5 years. In my location they have been replaced by all electric.
Doesn't mean it's better, it's just government and councils ticking boxes. The bus company probably got them first free, so sure they will take them
@@superchickensoup No, they’re just incredibly more efficient and cheaper to run than hydrogen. The hydrogen buses were the free ones..
Well done Harry. Keep us updated. Very interesting. Let's hope the new year with your help pushes this technology foreward.
Happy Christmas to you and your family. All the best for 2025😊
That guy had an agenda and wasn't keen for you to deviate, was he?!
What would be the feasibility of an on site/ farm Hydrogen production plant. Smaller scale than the one you visited with JCB?
Technically fine. Economically completely ridiculous. It's been tried on a single fuel forecourt scale.
I know nothing but Harry did not look convinced. In 10 years we will look back with hindsite and know what the answer was.
Great video. Keep up the good work.
The blue Toyota Marai near the beginning of the video is 85k euro here. One with 9,000k on the clock costs 44k euro.
I’m glad someone is trying to find a solution. I’ve been saying for years that electric will not work when it comes to shipping and farming. Small city cars yes but anything bigger than that needs more work in my opinion. 700bar pressure for a road car 🤔. I dunno about you but I wouldn’t want someone crashing into the back of me with that kind of pressure in a tank 💥.
Merry Christmas everyone ❤
My father tried to make a small hydrogen cell for his car once using thin stainless plates incased in a Tupperware container. It wasn’t exactly successful but he had the right idea.
Can’t believe Harry was so adamant about future of battery electric vehicles when their is do much in public domain to contradict his opinion. Here in Australia, how about a charger and truck with 6MW fast charge!
“Developed by Fortescue Zero, the 6MW fast charger will be compatible with a wide range of battery electric heavy mining equipment and designed to meet all operational requirements.
In announcing the ARENA funding, Fortescue Metals Chief Executive Officer, Dino Otranto said: “As part of our decarbonisation plan, we intend to roll out around 250 fast chargers of varying capacities across our iron ore operations before the end of this decade,” Mr Otranto said.
Also swappable batteries.
One big problem for any heavy machinery that moves away from Diesel, the suggested replacement energy sources aren't anywhere near as energy dense! That means you need to resupply/refuel/recharge a lot more often. That just isn't acceptable in most working situations.
As a commercial gas engineer I know I need to retrain to work with Hydrogen at high pressure. To put in perspective 300Bar was mentioned but that is 4300PSI (pounds per square inch) - massive! This is the problem with Hydrogen. I know a lot of very capable gas engineers who will not retrain to this gas due to the pressures. If the Hydrogen tank was to rupture at near empty there would be no tractor left....! Sorry Lord Bamford.
Are you trained or able to train for heat pumps, batteries and solar? That's the actual future, all this hydrogen talk is about delaying electrification, this is an old mans folly, and it will cost 10 times diesel if it ever makes it past "research" - feels like we've seen this dog and pony show for a decade now, and pitch was the pivot to hydrogen combustion - the most inefficient way to turn electricity into work - was that it was a simple switch, and while that might be true for the engine line, it is far from true for everything else.
Hydraulic systems on agricultural and industrial machines regulary run at 3000+ psi and hydrostatic drives run at even higher pressures. Hydraulic rams and hoses are manufactured to withstand these pressures. As long as the tanks are built to withstand the pressures involved, I can see no reason why hydrogen is not the future.
Don’t forget the cryogenic safety issues, and how hard it is to prevent leaks.
@@robertallen3441 hydrogen embrittles metal and eats through rubber and plastics, it is an escape artist like no other, it's a very different ballgame to hydraulic fluids which are chosen for the suitability under pressure.
It's not the same as hydraulic oil. If you rupture a hydrogen tank it will make a nice bang
Batteries are going to continue to improve, but it's difficult to see how hydrogen can improve to overcome the challenges of storage and the inefficiency in producing it from electricity.
Another superb video, full of great content and insight into Hydrogen. Again we seem to be so naive in the UK to think battery is the only solution but thanks to the Lord Bamford paving the way to Hydrogen.
There’s a reason why everyone else has come to the conclusion that burning hydrogen in a combustion engine is not economical.
@@edc1569 But not the Germans
Fascination look at Hydrogen development, well done to Lord Bamford and JCB. Shame the Government wasn't as keen.
I was wanting another Hydrogen update, cheers Harry! Hope you guys all have a lovely Christmas.
The Cotswold 'set' mind games.
Great video, as ever, Harry...what a wonderful gentleman Sir JC Bamford is 👏👏👏❗️
J was his dad!
This is great.. thank you Harry and thank you JCB for at looking into something other than electric
The only thing Harry can say is that the machines are 'so clean'. He realises that hydrogen is not the solution for agriculture.
I think it was a bad start in the area where they produced the hydrogen. The site was completely boarded up, which raised suspicions. I think Harry sensed something was off.
Thanks very much Harry! Really great to see your interest in this topic! You really are looking to understand how viable this whole option is! Let’s hope it can end up with financially viable solutions! Would be interesting if you could do a video, to comment on the whole financial viability topic, which seems to exercise people in the comments here! There is no opinion, with all of this. Numbers are numbers! Good luck with everything Harry and thank you again!!
It really depends how the hydrogen is made. Green OK, Blue Dodgy
We take all this energy, we make hydrogen, we then make energy. It is all dodgy.
@@speedymccreedy8785 Some is more dodgy than other
Would that hissing sound when disconnecting the nozzle and a naked flame add up to a bit of excitement?
I don't see how they will be able to store enough hydrogen onboard to make it not stupidly annoying.
Brilliant product excellent future fuel.hydrogen only emits water after combustion zeeo carbon emissions uk needs to be selling hydrogen on the forecourts for trucks and vehicles in the future Excellent innovative engineeering progression superb !.
I see green-hydrogen for ships, but the fact that batteries have come down in price by 51% in 2024 alone, that every market share globally and locally shows batteries growing stronger and stronger in market share and growing. 6min charge times for cars in 2025. Energy density growing by 25% in 2024 meaning lighter and lighter batteries. The fact that we are using 20% less electricity than we were in the 1980's. Everything is pointing to batteries for almost anything. Solar panels increasing in efficiency meaning less panels needed. All we have to do is look at the facts and they overwhelmingly point towards electricity. Even China is no longer backing hydrogen because to make hydrogen, you need to make electricity. Making hydrogen is less efficient than just using electricity.
As someone who has worked on ships and has an appreciation of the safety issues involved I can say that highly pressurised explosive gas with a tiny activation energy in necessarily compartmentalised watertight spaces is not a good idea.
And that is before you consider the costs involved. When you have to move a quarter of a million tons of ship and cargo half way round the world the price of fuel is a very major consideration. Here was have a kilo of hydrogen costing £22. A ton of bunker fuel costs maybe £600. That isn't going to work.
what happens if/when it catches on fire will it expolde or not ? if so what is the safe distence ?
This is a sad greenwash diversion. JCB have received cash from the government to allow internal combustion engines to be continued. The solution if hydrogen is part of the solution is to use it in fuel cells. Hydrogen has so many problems with efficiency, shipping and many other problems.
And you have evidence of government cash ? No worse than all the government cash going into EV madness and forcing people to buy EV's.
fantastic video. I work in the utilities sector and see a real future for LGV, HGV, plant and standby power generation in hydrogen. like diesel its easy to get to where and when its needed.
It could. As always - where's the fuel coming from and what will it cost?
You can't bake a cake for less than the cost of the ingredients.
You can't make green hydrogen cheaper than the cost of the electricity.
That's why it'll fail, as it has been everywhere once the funding dries up.
Petrol really is the perfect fuel when you see the challenges dealing with everything else. I've never felt said concerned refuelling or carrying around petrol. However, the idea of high pressure storage of a highly flammable gas just seems a bit scary. I know that the tanks will be very strong but nonetheless..
Nice Pie in the sky video.
If you want to know where high load diesel engines and fuels for them are going look at ship’s engines. Currently trials of methanol are underway to replace heavy fuel oil. Also I have seen ammonia being trialled but can’t see that catching on due to toxicity (same reason it’s not used for a refrigerant)
Another Bamford first. They are an inspiration to the thinking folk amongst us....
Thanks Harry, another great video. Mainstream broadcasters could take leaf from your channel, but they wont because it will upset the sponsors, shareholders and wokists.
Good man 😊
Amazing. You call yourself a thinker then use the word woke.
I would say battery technology is rather the thing to upset the sponsors oil industry can still make and sell hydrogen
Brilliant up date on hydrogen 😊
I'd like to take my hat off to Lord Banford and his company for going down a more than sensible route of H2 and finding solutions to problems.
Soft spoken, direct, very knowledgeable. Shame the past Governments and the present bunch of kinder garden kids have not done a single thing to push forward
the infrastructure.
just hope we don't get a horse pipe ban
What sensible about it?
FANTASY. THIS IS LIKE THE "PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINES" OF OUR CHILDHOOD. AS SOON AS REALITY SETS IN IT ALL COLLAPSES.
More sensible than 'what' ?
And how do you know ?
@@tomsdaddy JCB already sell battery mini diggers with tiny batteries, they don't sell Hydrogen ones yet. Other competitors are offering larger battery excavators today with all the specs.
Excellent video as all your videos are on both channels. I remain uncertain on one point however, (you asked the right question but didn’t get a clear answer), how is this form of power efficient if it requires electricity to power the electrolysis of water into hydrogen and oxygen?
Absolutley fantastic, been looking forward to more on this!
Curious about the efficiency - somewhere someone is paying for that 3x or 4x loss in electrolysis and compression going from electricity to hydrogen. Once that goes commercial it'll be an interesting calculation for farmers to make - battery swap the harvester every 2-3 hours, or pay 4x as much consumption and refuel with hydrogen every 8 hours.
I'll bet they'll still be using diesel 30 years from now.
This is really disappointing. *EVERY* expert (and I don't mean industry "experts", but actual scientists, who're not in it for the money) knows that Hydrogen is a terrible choice for fuel. The efficiency of the entire Hydrogen-as-a-fuel chain is just really really poor (there are only a hand full of exceptions - farming is not one of them). I get that you're biased due to your history in motoring, but Hydrogen is unfortunately just a smoke screen from fossil fuel companies to delay the inevitable: The electrification of _all_ forms of transport and industry.
Ah yes, the good ol' Ad Quantum argument.
Electrification will NOT take over ALL forms of transport and industry for one very simple reason that was articulated in this video: when batteries run out, you can't run a rescue vehicle in with more fuel to top it up. The vehicle has to be taken back to base and plugged in to a power supply. That simply doesn't work for the industrial customers that JCB is addressing and I'm sure that Ukraine could tell us that it wouldn't work in the war theatre.
Hydrogen is the future for heavy machinery on farms and construction sites. It could also replace diesel in the shipping industry, powering ships, trains, and trucks. The technology will be further developed, so hydrogen prices will come down. I also think that refueling and storage will improve massively, with companies like Toyota, Hyundai, JCB, Honda, and BMW investing in the future of hydrogen propulsion. Harry can't wait to see the first machines or tractors powered by hydrogen on your farm :)
The issue is how you make the hydrogen.
I think the storage/transportation and density of energy are way worse. That entore trailer box only holds 50kg of H
Is the hydrogen system affected by ambient temperature? If it's in warm climates, does it store less fuel? I am guessing not, given the pressures involved
The hydrogen fantasy rolls on! Right at the start this article is full of inaccuracies.
To say that batteries won't do the job is factually incorrect, as it is already being used in trucks and plant as well as aircraft, and with the battery development curve maturing rapidly and exponentially, the cost and gravimetric (NOT volumetric) energy density of batteries are only going to improve - the cost of batteries has plummeted this year alone thanks to China, and BYD and CATL are building manufacturing plant worldwide. H2 advocates love to give you the volumetric energy density, except they fail to include the containers and associated cooling hardware! H2 tanks for road vehicles are ridiculously huge because of the pressures (700 bar is 10,300 psi in a car!?) and insulation requirements.
So that alone should be enough to tank this nonsense.
However, let's continue.
Globally, claims that hydrogen is zero emissions have been prevented by 'Well-to-Wheel' emissions accounting standards - ISO, EU, IEA, UNFCCC, EPA, World Bank... That means this 'all you need is water and electricity' trope is considered false and misleading. Unfortunately, it's the shaky foundation on which hydrogen stands.
Multi-million dollar electrolysers do not appreciate being turned on and off, nor do their investors. But since they wear out with worrying regularity, it's something you'd need to factor in. Nor do charge points escape problems. Current research shows that the few charge points that exist commercially (as opposed to nursed single installations like Bamford's baby) are out of order almost half the time. Shell shut down their charging network because it was a commercial failure, and technical nightmare. Please show me where there are viable H2 charging networks? Anywhere in the world?
Please alternatively show me 'trials' (read subsidised) of hydrogen electric vehicle fleets that have not been abandoned due to cost and/or unreliability? Imaginative accountancy on lifespans and maintenance have been the bait, and gullible local councils and journalists like this have taken it - until someone actually checks the bank balance. Hydrogen sadly cannot be produced at anything like the $1/kg often used in illustrative quotes.
Hydrogen hates being transported, and escapes at every opportunity, unless it is already being vented to reduce inevitable pressure build ups in holding containers as they gradually warm. Given it's a potent greenhouse gas since it exacerbates existing GHG's in the atmosphere and it's highly explosive at a wide range of concentrations, it's hardly a contender for Green fuel of the year, is it?
As always, proponents will trot out the 'spare renewables' mantra. Current hydrogen use is primarily by fossil fuel companies, with a large proportion used in enhanced gas & oil recovery - in other words, it's used to get the last dregs of oil out of wells. Since the vast (high 90's%) majority of hydrogen production is as a fossil fuel by-product or deliberate manufacture, it's no surprise that big oil likes the gas, which it can flare off like it does methane.
Spare renewable energy doesn't exist - it is a precious resource that should be used directly or stored - which it can be in multiple ways, and more efficiently on a round-trip-efficiency measure.. Hydrogen does have some potential here, but even that use case is disappearing as alternative storage technologies meet the vast majority of industrial, commercial and domestic demand for heat and power. See Michael Liebreich's Hydrogen Ladder (v5.0 is the latest, I believe).
Just to wrap up then - for transport (but other stuff as well) it doesn't deliver, it's always going to be too expensive cos of thermodynamics and chemistry, and even if it doesn't blow us into next year it will blow dumbass budget there. Stop burning stuff for fuel!
So lift your jaw up off the ground, Harry's Farm, and stop being sucked in by a pet project that has exactly zero scalability. Do a bit of research, and you'll find what I say is verified by the major voices in the energy industry. Start with Mr. Liebreich, then jump to Michael Barnard. Our government's promise of billions to this nonsense is yet another fossil fuel subsidy that big oil's deep 'marketing' budgets have loosened through lobbyists.
Your faith in batteries is truly amazing - especially for aircraft. Never a dull moment with the lithium lads !
@@martinjagfansmith LOL! Exactly, and look what is happening to all those "cheap" Chinese batteries, talk about "coming home to a real fire" !
@@martinjagfansmith and yet they are already a thing and amazing that petrolheads, even with the amazing advances in ICE technology believe that batteries will be the same in 30 years time as now. It is possible that batteries re not the whole solution but hydrogen is 0% of any solution.
Agreed. If he's worried about instant availability I suppose a hybrid with small engine for battery charging might work. That Canadian converting logging trucks to hybrids is an example.
😂Michael Barnard!!! He’s verbose and rude
You’re missing the scenarios where electricity just isn’t available so you’re better off shipping in molecules
The pressures used on that hydrogen solution are quite frightening.
5000psi in the excavator and 10000psi in cars!!
Ignore the flammability, those pressures are a potential bomb.
Has Banford paid his tax yet ?
He paid for Spaffer’s wedding gig and a grace n favour house…
What energy source is used to make the hydrogen?
Nice to see titled folk interesting in saving the planet rather than tax. Vast improvement on the last video.
lol, lord Bamford has all his money offshore so he doesn’t pay tax, he’s resigned from the House of Lords and is also fighting HMRC ( tax office) over money owed
Very interesting video, some concerns around pressure relief on a vehicle and the possibility of leaks. H2 being problematic when escaping under high pressure.
Great to see the continued progress by JCB and Lord Bamford. This is what happens when someone who knows what they’re doing looks at a problem instead of politicians who don’t have a clue about the working world… Thanks for highlighting this Harry as ever 👍
To politicians you could add civil servants and other assorted bureaucrats.
No, this is sill politicking. You develop the tech that will then help the clueless politicians establish policy and you end up getting written into said policy. This is a strategic move.
Every south facing shed roof should be covered in (or be made out of if it is a new build) solar panels for hydrogen production.
Excellent to see JCB doing what needs to be done and investing into fuel for industry.
70kW is not very much. But the torque is meant to be fairly high. Hopefully this continues to evolve
Absolute rot: distribution is a nightmare, there's zero infrastructure, and being the smallest molecule it WILL always leak - this is a pipe dream pushed by the oil monopolies
Let alone the energy required to create the hydrogen in the first place
This is brilliant and coming from a British firm as well
How long before we see you doing a review with them on your farm??(If they let you borrow one that is)