Why Charlotte is Building NEW TOLL LANES on I-77
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- Опубліковано 30 жов 2022
- I-77 in south Charlotte is the busiest stretch of highway in all of North Carolina. The latest proposal from state officials and city leaders is to add two new Express Lanes to each side of the existing roadway. On this video we will take a look at this project.
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As someone who moved to Charlotte and will be leaving once that's possible, I think I can speak for many who come from older cities in saying that it feels like this city wasn't planned, so much as it just happened. The tremendous infrastructure problems and pretty much no way to make viable public transportation given the lack of any sort of grid or city block structure don't seem like they're getting better anytime soon. Crazy that this state charges ridiculous annual property taxes on vehicles and yet can't find any money to build roads. 😮💨
That’s the feeling I got when I moved here. I love the city, but it’s like someone was asked to make a city and some toddler drew the results and whoever was in charge just went with it.
Where do you want to move to
The city of Charlotte was plan the infrastructure was controlled by the state
People who say that Boston is the most confusing city with the worst traffic has obviously never been to Charlotte
77 MUST be widened in Charlotte. South Carolina did their part when they widened it back in the 2000s. No excuses, Charlotte.
North Carolina also needs to change their control cities. No one cares about Statesville NC
Perhaps donating your cheaper taxes in SC to speed up the project? If not take in consideration this is the offset from living outside of the city.
I will say, no excuses NCDOT.
General speaking, citiies and towns don’t have much to do or say about interstates and major highways
It’s more up to the state than the city.
@@smackette South Carolina is broke. P.S.: I don't live in that state anymore.
Great and interesting video. I was always amaze I-77 was wider in Charlotte’s South Carolina suburbs than in Charlotte south of Uptown.
Well as a truck driver I can say all of that inconvenience that we put up with back in the middle '90s has been for nothing. All it did was add toll lanes going north out of Charlotte that a lot of people don't bother to use.... We truck drivers can't use it. Doesn't appear like the traffic congestion has been solved either.
My aunt Roseanne lives in fort mill and she works in Charlotte over at the racetrack and she told me that commuting back and forth to Charlotte every day is a nightmare.
I live in Charlotte. I -77 needed to be widened 2 decades ago and it keeps getting more unpredictable every week. Private construction is faster, but only 10 percent at most (optimistic) use the paid toll lanes going north. I don't see how this is going to solve the crowding problem if a small percentage use the new lanes. This will be unpopular opinion, making every lane toll lanes is more practical because a lot of people will still travel this essential road and all lanes will be used.
I’m not a fan of tolls. But at least that is fair. You’re right the toll lanes are barely used at all.
True but interstates paid for with federal funds can’t be retroactively tolled.
I live in the Lake Norman area. Traffic on I-77 between Iredell Co. and I-485 is clearly better since the HOT lanes opened. It does not mean it’s free-flowing, but it typically is less insane than it had been. More importantly IMO, I no longer face an inability to make appointments, flights, etc., on time. I don’t always take the HOT lanes, but if I need to be somewhere in Charlotte, I can be with a predictable schedule. This was not true before the HOT lanes opened.
I do not face the cost of using them every day, but it has made living in this part of the region bearable, vs what I would previously consider unbearable.
NC is making I-540’s southern arc toll (and it’s called NC 540 as a result) - my understanding is US DOT will not let you make an existing interstate all-tolled, except for those grandfathered in when the IHS was initially authorized.
Is there even an alternative to the routes not covered by blue line ? Even any bus line ? If no, do that first. Likely cheaper to slot in a tram line between blue line and US 74, and maybe even one from airport to US 74 looping around at a good distance from 485, thus connecting suburb to suburb.
Still 1 lane from I-85s to I-77s, since 1990s
Love the commentary videos! Always happy to see a new one pop up. If you're interested, check out the Jane Byrne Interchange in Chicago, one of the longest running highway construction projects I can remember.
NCDot only cares about the capital city of Raleigh. Raleigh highways get plenty of funding, but Charlotte residents have to pay for the roads with tolls
Objectively, this is not accurate.
I-485 from Arrowood Rd to US-74 was open in 1998 as a free expressway when I first moved to Charlotte in 1998-99. By the time I moved back in 2017, I-485 was complete as a free beltway around the city.
I-540 was only built as a freeway from the Knightsdale area northeast of Raleigh to just south of I-40 in Research Triangle Park. There were no funds to complete a beltway for Raleigh without it being 100% tolled. Note that I say 100% tolled - there is no HOT/free lane split. The same was true for the extension of NC 147 (now 885) south from I-40 to NC 540. These roads, collectively the Triangle Expressway/NC 540, were built to US 1 as 100% electronically-collected toll roads in the early 2010s and are being extended as toll-only to complete the 540 loop.
The East End Connector in Durham was just opened this year as a free, less than 2 mile road creating I-885 north of I-40, NC 885 (toll) south of I-40. That road was put on NCDOT’s books in the 1950s, during the Eisenhower Administration, and completed seventy years later.
We can have a fair debate about NC road policy favoring 3DIs and 4 lane roads and new corridors in ENC and rural areas. But as someone who loves Charlotte and the Triangle, please don’t put the two at loggerheads. We both suffer from underfunding, and it is in no way true that Raleigh gets away toll-free.
A good case study is Richmond VA, we’ll be better off posting signs that directs thru traffic from SC to 485 towards huntersville where traffic can rejoin 77 north of uptown just like 295 in Richmond, widening 77 won’t fix anything, investment needs to be made in commuter rail, the Charlotte area needs a Denver RTD kind of commuter rail system and a much improved tertiary road network, and another lake crossing to get in to Gaston co.
I've seen an electronic sign on the southbound I-77 that tells people they can bypass I-77 by using 485 but for some reason it's not suggested heading northbound from South Carolina. I think the proposed crossing into Gastonia was cancelled after too much pushback and they decided to add capacity to I-85 instead.
I feel the need to clarify a few items:
1) CRTPO has been pushing for this, but NCDOT has not allocated any funding for the project. As a matter of fact, it is neither "in progress", "in development" or "under consideration" on their website. This means there are currently 15 projects in front on it for approval.
2) the project was an unsolicited proposal to the CRTPO by Cintra, and did not go to NC DOT.
3) you probably should have mentioned why the I-77 project north of the City was so controversial. Namely the state handed over a taxpayer funded lane of traffic, and agreed to not expand that portion if I-77 for 50 years. People north of the City got screwed, and know they will be paying exorbitant tolls for 47 more years. To go 10 miles with light traffic, it will cost you $8, and with heavy traffic, it could be as much as $25.
4) mention that while CRTPO has 24 voting members, the City of Charlotte has the most number of votes, and despite Huntersville, Davidson, Cornelius and all voting members in Iredell County voting against the I-77 (north) project, Charlotte still rammed it through.
5) mention that Cintra did not complete the project on time or within budget.
6) Understand that Cintra up and walked away from a project in Texas, and has filed for bankruptcy twice in 20 years.
Lastly mention that Cintra wants a 100 year lease on the proposed project property, and would not allow for NC DOT expansion once their project is complete.
There is a reason NC DOT is Leary of this project, and Charlotte residents should be too.
Yeah I remember when they built the northern lanes. Some say McCory lost his job for pushing that through. My issue was with NCDOT claiming it couldn't be done with public funds while they somehow have millions to build empty freeways through Eastern NC and I-73/I-74 to nowhere. It could've and should've been done with public funds but I think it's indicative of NC's small town mentality and it's struggle to learn how to build and fund projects for growing cities like Charlotte and Raleigh. Even then, toll lanes can work, but when a company like Cintra is in charge and motivated by profit rather than actually reducing congestion, that's what we got in Charlotte.
Personally as of today I think NCDOT should correct the mistake and buyout the company or area residents will be screwed for several decades. Hopefully these lanes aren't operated like those.
@@MileageMikeTravels there is no doubt McCrory lost the election because if it. The buyout if I-77 north would cost ~$650 million today according to a study by NC Auditor Beth Wood.
If I were in charge, I'd increase the gas tax by 2 pennies, and use every cent statewide to fix I-77 from the state line to Statesville. I-485 took 25 years to date, and it is still being expanded. We sent too many dollars to rural eastern NC for years, and need to focus on where the population is growing (Raleigh and Charlotte metro regions account for 72% of moves since 2011).
I wouldn't trust Cintra with a dollar of investment.
They probably intentionally did it to prevent the north from becoming as congested as the south.
In reference to point 3, I seem to remember reading that the prohibition on expanding free lanes on 77 also applied to routes running parallel to 77 (US21 IIRC). Makes you wonder if the people who approved this were boneheads or
on the take.
I live in Charlotte near Ballantyne, so I'm off 485, which was also a mess that required lane additions and renovations within a few years of being constructed, which is also worthy of its own video. As for 77, yes from 277 to the border, a complete mess during morning and afternoon rush hour and I generally know the ways around it. As luck would have it, my girlfriend lives in Huntersville and I got the NC Quick Pass transponder, which has been an absolute great investment for saving time and stress.
I have lived in Charlotte since 1990 and use 77 to Lake Norman often. I am annoyed that Charlotte gets ignored by the state. As I travel around the state I see great highways with no tolls. in area with less needs. The cost for the expansion should be born state wide since it is the state that has ignored the needs of it's Charlotte residence for years. The fact that the company that expanded the current 77 system has guaranteed profits regardless of tolls seems insane. If you are going to guarantee the money just put in a state wide bond and do the work. Raleigh had no problem dumping off the high insurance cost of the NC coast to the rest of the state even though Charlotte does not have a good travel route to it, why not do the same with 77 construction costs? Charlotte residence are really tired of Raleigh ignoring their needs and taking our tax money
Toll roads don't always work. North America's busiest highway is Ontario highway 401. To relieve congestion, they built the 407 Express Toll Route. Since tolls are so expensive, few use the ETR and therefore it did nothing to relieve the congestion. It was just a big waste of money.
These are kind of a medium to that: you can pay to skip traffic but it will be expensive.
Tolls are bureaucrats imagination to releive congestion when all tolls do is create MORE congestion.
I'd have to check it out. I'm curious to experience Toronto's traffic flow and understand why it doesn't work. I've heard a lot about the 401. Hopefully I can make it up there next year.
I can confirm the 407/401 situation. The same thing is happening with the toll lanes on I77 North of Charlotte. Only those on an expense account can afford the tolls and the free lanes are just as congested as before. I hate to say it but maybe all the lanes should be toll with a much lower fee.
Our 81 traffic would be much lower here in the Scranton PA area if they made the Turnpike a freeway.
I’m addicted to this channel yoooo great work and I’m from charlotte nc
Appreciate it!!
Soon, I 85 going towards Spartanburg will improve by crossing into South Carolina. They have been at work widening it for a while now. Very funny to see the road quality reversed.
Can't wait for that to be done. It's a pain driving through that construction area.
Widening also needs to be done in NC from the border until I-74 to six lanes too. Possibly even 8 lanes or a speed Limit rise in Gastonia
I think they're working on the part in Gastonia now. SC is widening 85 up to the state line so I wouldn't be surprised if NC does in the future.
They need to do it right. I-77 north traffic is not better than it was before the construction of the toll lane. It is dangerous and heavy traffic until you get to 1-40. The exit and on ramps are a major issue. Traffic gets backed up onto the interstate and the toll lanes mostly benefit the rich. So many out of state wealthy people have moved into the area and they are able to benefit(afford to use) the toll lanes while many of the local tax payers receive no benefit from it.
I always enjoy using the paid lanes when I travel to Virginia from Ballantyne. It's really nice being able to drive in those lanes with usually only a few vehicles around because 98% of the traffic won't use them. It feels much safer and just easier to go down the highway without worrying about braking all the time. And it feels really nice when the free lanes are all backed up and you're passing them at 80mph sustained.
Thankfully my only two trips on I-77 south of I-85 were on the weekend.
Great explanation of the biggest headache ever. All I can say is I avoid these traffic jam prone area’s like the plague!! Luckily I almost never have to drive in these area’s so it really doesn’t affect me, I plan to keep driving in routes around it. If it ever gets fixed I would happily pay to drive on a free flowing highway.
Charlotte native, born on the south side in '71. I remember the 'big news' back when 277 was constructed and then in the 80s when the plans for a loop (485) to be built around the city were announced and construction began; 30+ years later, the loop was FINALLY completed...lol. What they did to 77 heading north out of Charlotte was dumb af and I would not be surprised if the same happens when they work on this part of 77. I would say it's a case of growth at such a rate it's impossible to keep up/plan ahead, but it seems the DOT has always been 20 years behind when it comes to building roads here; heck, when they completed the first section of 485 back in the 90s, it they made it only 2 lanes wide on each side and it needed to be widened immediately! Regardless, I doubt I'll be around when whatever is done gets done on 77...
You not that old. You could make it.
I used I-77 all the time commuting from Lake Norman to South Charlotte. Yes this stretch is certainly a choke point in the network and is often congested even in off-peak times, however, I’m not completely onboard with spending so much money just to add toll lanes. I would rather they keep this relatively short section of I-77 as it is and focus on fixing the disaster that is the interchange with 277 and 74.
I live in Charlotte and have spent a great many hours studying this corridor and any news about it.
1. While the ROW will be a pain in the ass because I’m total it will go from about a 110 ft cross section to an almost 200 ft cross section, they shouldn’t have to tear down any buildings except around the i77 i277 interchange so I don’t think that is the primary problem.
2. Every single bridge (11 road bridges and 3 rail) will need to be torn down and replaced. Not only is this extremely costly but it will wreck havoc on traffic patterns as the likely approach for most road bridges will be to tear down half the bridge, build half, tear down the other half, and then complete the bridge. This is a significant head ache and is more costly. As for the train bridges train companies are just generally a pain in the ass to deal with.
3. Given the fact that the bridges are the most costly part and they are all coming out anyway, it’s not much of a concern to add an extra 12 feet to each side of the road. I think the ideal cross section is a 4-2-2-4 and the state also adding an extra lane will help people get over the tolls and future proof the project to an extent.
4. I disagree with your assessment that the concrete barriers are nessesary. I have only seen 1 person ever cross the cones and adding those barriers creates the need for 12-20 additional feet of just shoulder space on each side of the road. This could just as well be a whole extra lane on both sides.
The only thing I have with the 4-2-2-4 configuration for this section is that it might be a while before the toll lanes generate any real traffic to where they're generating revenue. 4 lanes right now would likely make the roadway free flowing in the short term and I think it would take another 5-10 years before it's busy enough to encourage some people to use the toll lanes. I think if they went with 4-2-2-4 then it might be a good idea to just build the free lane with space for tolls to be added later.
While admittedly I haven't seen much lane diving over the barriers in Charlotte, I've seen it quite a bit in larger cities like Miami and Atlanta. It usually happens when traffic is around a standstill and impatient, selfish drivers see the open lane and just drive over them. With more people flocking here from those places they'll be bringing their driving habits with them so I see it as more of a way to protect the drivers from such people.
Appreciate the perspective.
The thing is the project won’t be done for at least a decade probably more realistically 12-15 years. The question isn’t about utilization from today onwards, we need to think what the traffic volumes will be in the mid to late 2030s
Thanks so much for making this video
I think it’s ok if they use toll lanes however, they will not work and have no effect short-term or long-term if they do not tear down every bridge and interchange in the 277 area, and probably ½ the interchanges from 277 to SC. The new interchanges need to split up on ramps and off ramps evenly between the middle and outside of the road within the 277 area. Additionally, an additional general-purpose lane must be added going through the 277 section all the way to SC. If they do this plus the 2 toll lanes
The southern part of I77 is my daily commute from the Tega Cay area to uptown. You're correct, the bridges are there, but much of the land is already there, its just poorly used especially around the interchanges. On my commute in everyday, I use the Arrowood exit off 77 to bypass stopped bumper to bumper traffic, but never truly exit the interstate, instead I blend back in just before Nations Ford. In the afternoon I do the same thing by using the exit lanes for Arrowood and 485 but blending back onto the interstate at Westinghouse. Some of this congestion could be handled by widening of the NC portion of 160 from Ft Mill to 485 from its current 2 lane to 4 lanes. Again much of that RE acquired, it would just need graded and paved.
Ah I remember that Arrowood road trick, I used to do it myself too. I agree about NC 160. When I was working in Fort Mill I was surprised that it was only two lanes in a lot of places.
@@MileageMikeTravels There is talk about doing away with 1/2 of I-277 coming in to town on NC Hwy 74. Basically half the freeway would survive and the other half would become an exit leading to only uptown streets. Not too sure how I feel about that, but there is definitely room for improvement when it comes to land use of the Independence corridor that sees miles of paved lanes in the center of it going unused. Also Charlotte needs another bridge across the Catawba River that funnels into southern Gaston County to NC Hwy 273 using existing I 485 exits like the West Blvd/Garrison Road exit just south of the Charlotte airport north of Charlotte Premium Outlets.
I used to commute from UNCC to the salesforce building next to I-77 by the Tyvola Exit (Exit 5) for my job. If i didnt have to be back at the school for anything, i would wait until around 7pm to leave work when I-77 was moving again. I would just look outside the office window to see if the traffic was speeding as usual.
It must be widened. I use i77 from Fort Mill to uptown or i485. It gets very clogged during rush hour and off days, especially during events uptown or sports.
Your voice and presentation is very relaxing and smooth. Quite easy to engage while sitting back!
Great commentary! I don't live in Charlotte, but when I drove down there back in July to go to a concert at the Spectrum Center, traffic on I-77 was worse than it was on I-85 due in part to an accident on I-77. I agree, however, that Charlotte needs to get on the ball and widen I-77.
I don't take 77. I learned to take 485 all the way around. Depending on your speed you can take 77 south Carolina in about the same time. That stretch of highway is the only highway I tell ppl to avoid.
I have always wondered when and if they would ever do this as I am a Charlotte area resident and you are right South Carolina widen the portion of i-77 through Rock Hill back in 2001 and I do remember when 77 was only four lanes going into Charlotte because I used to ride with my mom to the doctor's appointments a lot as a kid
I travel from Greensboro to Florida often and avoid Charlotte all together. I find it much more relaxing to take 38 towards the beach and then hit 95.
Tolls are worse in the Northeast
16 dollars for G Washington bridge 💀
@@exles248 that’s typical for NEW YORK
Which is why people move to the south, for no tolls or less of them. #wedontwantthatlife
Yeah, they're not even close to high enough. Traffic is still bad.
@@exles248 NY should double it. The traffic is still horrendous there.
I do like concrete barriers with full shoulders much more than just those skimpy plastic bollard things. But I live in New England, where highway expansion is rarer than leprechauns.
The North I-77 TOLL section has been a total failure. Traffic has not improved & the toll lanes are so overpriced that they have not helped at all.
This is why you don’t let a private company do it and make millions. The Monroe bypass is how much tolls should be.
I'd say those were done improperly. For one, the section between Uptown and 485 didn't even need another lane. It was mostly free flowing unless there was a crash around peak hours. It was already 3 lanes plus 1 HOV lane. Then north of 485 it's only 2 free lanes per side with one express lane. That's a failed configuration IMO. A busy freeway in a metro like Charlotte should have at a minimum 3 free lanes and then 1-2 Express lanes if they wanted to add capacity later. The 2-1-1-2 configuration is bizarre and doesn't really help. They should've built the 3rd lane for free and later added Express Lanes if they felt more capacity was needed. Plus yeah the cost is too high to get ideal usage as the private company is motivated to make money rather than relieve congestion.
@@louieellis1333 there was not even a logical or rational reason to put tolls on 74 period. It's supposed to be a BY-PASS, not a toll road. Besides it was built to save FOUR MINUTES off a roadtrip to MB. Whoopeedoo, four whole minutes. I drive the NORMAL 74 to MB. I'm not in any hurry to pay tolls anyway.
@@oriolesfan7807 I’m not a fan of any tolls but I disagree 74 wasn’t a good candidate for small tolls. If the funding supposedly wasn’t there to build it by making it a toll road it allows the state to get it built proactively possibly before it’s really needed and while it can be built cheaper. I gladly pay the couple bucks it costs to not sit at 100 stop lights and it’ll come in really handy as traffic in that area increases but with that being said I believe the tolls should go away once all the loans are paid off from building it. The road tax we all pay should be able to maintain a road once it’s built, it shouldn’t become a cash cow for a private company or the state but at least if the state does it the money will hopefully get reinvested on something else in the state.
@@MileageMikeTravels the only disagreement I have with your comment is there’s actually 2 toll lanes from 485 up to Cornelius where it drops down to one but the private company clearly took every cheap way out they could and are screwing people now with the high tolls. The only section I found to be originally congested consistently everyday was the Lake Norman area but that’s where they only added one toll lane probably because Lake Norman made it really expensive to add 2 toll lanes, even though that’s where the biggest problem was and still is. The other problem is all the on/off ramps in that area are way too short for today’s traffic so that adds to the congestion and wasn’t even slightly addressed by the private company because they want the slow lanes backed up. When there’s money to be made doing the right thing often isn’t a priority which is why I say if the tolls were 100% needed to pay off building loans the state should have managed them and removed them once all loans are paid off or at the very least put any profit back into the state elsewhere.
I travel to Carowinds and the worst part of the trip is easily I-77. I believe it’s 15-16 miles from the park to the I-77 interchange with I-85. The longest it ever took for me, was an hour and 10 minutes, and 40 minutes on average. I-85 is rarely an issue.
Neat video. Only ever driven on 77 on the Lake Norman side toward 81 in Virginia. If Atlanta is any indication, when they build HOT lanes with a physical barrier, they will have some random whimsy about when they will actually allow anyone to use the lanes. I've driven past the separated lanes south of Atlanta and the ones north west of Atlanta and I cannot recall ever seeing them open for use. Even during rush hour, the gates were down, the red lights on and the lanes sat empty doing absolutely nothing, while the rest of the highway was doing single digit speeds. What good is that? Why don't they, you know, let people use the stupid lanes that cost so much but promised so much traffic relief? Maybe Charlotte can outdo Atlanta on this.
Back in the day I used to use 77 to get from 95 to 81 when travelling from the GA coast to Central NY and saw the Charlotte area grow and grow over the years and using 77 get more and more congested and stressful. Last time I did the trip (all be it a few years ago) I decided to skip 77 and took 26 all the way to 81. While a bit longer, it was less stressful except for the *huge* thunderstorm we encountered in the mountains north of Asheville on the northbound trip.
Also I see your point about the ATL. they built those express lanes on 75 but every time I went by they were closed. Why build them and then not let people use them.
I commute daily in Charlotte. With all the growth here Charlotte needs to invest in better public transportation. The light rail needs to not only run north and south, but also east, and west.
Thanks Milege Mike for Charlotte transportation information 👍
I use the I-77 north Charlotte toll section daily, I don't use tolls, refuse to pay. Tolls have not helped the traffic in this area....in fact they may have made the traffic worse.....with the increase of exit and entrances also correlates to increased stopping to allow merging.
I live in Charlotte and I think if they focused on the horribly designed south exit with I-277/US 74, that would alleviate much of the congestion further downstream. The interchange with Arrowood Road is also awful and really needs to be fixed. For some reason, NCDOT also has an annoying habit of not telling people of exits on signs until nearly the last second. For example, northbound I-77 traffic is only altered about I-277 less than 2 miles before you get to it and I can’t tel you the number of times I’ve seen people cross from the leftmost lane to get onto that awful exit for I-277.
Nice info. Love it
You should do one on the I-16/I-75 expensive overly engineered interchange project…. That’s taken YEARSSSS TO COMPLETE.
285/400 interchange project that’s taken 5 years that’s almost complete….
I-16/I-95 interchange project along with the highway widen to I-516
All in Georgia that have taken forever to build! Currently all under construction!
I remember when everyone used to pick on independence Boulevard for having the worst traffic in Charlotte. There is no question that 77 is worse than Independence Boulevard right now.
Good video. Lots of facts
Happily I know longer live in south Charlotte. I’m now off 85 in university however my church is outside uptown on the west side and I frequent Carowinds a lot. The 277 interchange is a death trap and 77 south as well. I never understood why Greensboro/Winston Salem i85 has 10-14 lanes while Charlotte stays stuck no more then 8 lanes. Happily it opens up near concord mills with 16 lanes but it’s short lived. One problem on 77 S is there too many on ramps. It’s almost every crossroad. They all don need to enter or exit the interstate. When they do widen. The can get rid of Clanton and Remount. Arrowood, Billy Graham and Tyvola can stay. After going to Texas and seeing their interstate facility, if the can’t widen 77 I’d wouldn’t mind doing the double decker style like in Dallas, Austin, San Antonio and Houston. In 77’s case the upper level can be the toll lanes with no exits until 277. Maybe one at tyvola and Billy Graham. Turn Independence into an interstate as well as Brookshire. Bill Graham was suppose to be one from 85 to South Park but the city procrastinated so long until Woodlawn formed and became commercial/neighborhoods.
where is it 10-14 lanes in Winston Salem. in concord it stays 8 lanes. how do u count your lanes? genuinely curious
@@kushalyuh between 485 and concord mills it’s definitely 7 lanes on each side. I drive it everyday, albeit 3 on each are part of the on/off ramp of 485 that stretches to the Bruton Blvd exit. Which is why I said short lived. I said Winston/Greensboro area where i85 meets i73; it’s definitely 10 lanes 5 on each side possibly 6
Going from OH to FL/GA a lot, Charlotte's Lake Norman area is nearly always bad. It would be great if there was a way to bypass Charlotte completely, because 485 is already too late. Like a Statesville to Rock Hill by-pass, with no local access to get thru traffic out of the mix.
As a truck driver, if I'm passing thru the Charlotte area on I-77, I usually take the western portion of I-485 as a bypass to avoid the congestion. I only go thru I-77 at night or it if absolutely necessary in the daytime. Sidenote: I don't understand why they prohibit trucks from using the tolled portions. NC is just denying themselves needed revenue.
They need to invest in better public transit infrastructure to connect these areas. Widening the highway is always a temporary fix for these kinds of traffic issues. And it's always ridiculously expensive.
Cintra really did fuck with us. My friends and I lovingly call the inner lanes of 77 "The Spain Lane" 😑
😂
You get to Carowinds faster. Honestly, a good park when I went some 20 years ago.
Thorough video on the issues with I-77 from Uptown to the SC boarder. My thoughts, is it will be rolled and be similar to how I-77 is north of Uptown. The issue is building the toll lanes north of uptown did not ease congestion for those trying to get to Lake Norman area. The general purposed remained the same 4-6 lanes and the feeder streets to the area like Beatties Ford and Statesville Roads cannot be expanded. I’m assuming similar clauses will be put in to not expand South Blvd or South Tryon streets. Which means there will be people who will take the toll lanes but majority of the people won’t and traffic will be worse in 20 years. This is why I catch the light rail or Express bus from North Charlotte into uptown.
Yea like 500 million goes to consultants with relationships and kickbacks to politicians
Like which kickbacks?
I thought that what they were doing last time i was there!! I expect toll lanes somewhere in the future & more roads in the baton rouge, la metro HOPEFULLY & EVENTUALLY as well.
I’m in Ballantyne. Honestly I-77 is such a mess, I just avoid it. Not just time, but stress. The 277 and 77 interchanges (particularly the south you show here is far too dangerous - having to merge across 2 lanes immediately or you’ll end up going back up 277 the other way). If I’m going uptown, I take Lancaster and South Blvd or Rea Rd and Colony Rd. Takes as long, but far more pleasant and safe. What gets me is the planning for 485 - the north they have loads of free lanes. The south - 4, then 3, then 2 and they’re adding toll lanes on 485 on the south side here too. I just don’t get it. North Charlotte gets 77 with tolls and a nice wide, and free 485. South Charlotte gets tolls on our section of 485 with a bottleneck at Independence to Albermarle. If I’m going north of Charlotte - I always take 485 past CLT. As for 85 west (or as it’s oddly signposted - 85 south), I avoid. One of these days, they’ll finally bypass Shelby. That’s taken decades because the current 74 through Shelby was actually a bypass. But they messed up the planning and allowed Shelby to basically expand around it, so it’s stop start traffic and lights all the way up. Raleigh should start thinking about where Charlotte registration taxes are going. Us Charlotte residents seem to be funding the rest of the state. Btw anyone thinking of buying a transponder - get the WV EZ pass. It’s cheaper.
I grew up in Charlotte and I absolutely despise the 77. I cannot remember a time it wasn’t under construction, and the tolled express lanes didn’t help improve it at all! I often complain that Charlotteans cannot drive, but that might be a reflection of the fact our roads suck to drive on xD
Charlotte has been saying it's the next Atlanta for decades. It's never going to happen. Atlanta keeps growing and getting better.
I doubt that now I see Atlanta people moving to Charlotte
@@jarvisstradford7211 People move all the time... What's your point?
@@ausxau the poor are y'all knucklehead keep moving to Charlotte now cuz you're tired of Atlanta
As a person living near uptown, any time having to drive anything involving 74/77/277 is an absolute living hell.
What is your viewpoint on widening highways creating induced demand?
I live in Winston Salem and when I drive south 77 from 277 to Columbia is harendous
Why would you drive 77 anyway. Coming down 85 get off at 485 to go around Charlotte to 77 onto Columbia.
@@oriolesfan7807 idk why I’ll start doing it
@@triadrailfanproductions is a longer way but at least it move
Hello from Kansas 🇺🇸
if you cannot build express lanes correctly (Orlando), then don’t build them at all. learn from Miami’s mistakes
Exactly!
There's new toll lanes coming to interstate 77
Happy Halloween from Beaumont Texas
Happy Halloween from Lake Charles Louisiana
They are building smart lanes in Cincinnati. They have them in Columbus as well. It uses the shoulder as an extra lane during rush hours. It is much cheaper than adding an additional lane, Maybe Charlotte can do that to some of it's interstates at a much cheaper cost.
Many people already use the shoulder as an extra lane....unless NCSHP is sitting there to discourage them.
It's too late for Charlotte. The city and surrounding area has grown too much too fast without any thought to any supporting infrastructure by what are supposed to be city and county "leaders" until it has been too late to do anything about it to effectively alleviate the problems.
Nothing will ever fix the traffic problems in Charlotte and Mecklenburg County, not to mention the other problems of overcrowding, overpriced housing, increased crime, and the plethora of presumptuous a-holes, homeless, and other people escaping the same problems that they created elsewhere and are creating again where they were not asked to come.
it is no longer a Southern city. North Carolina is no longer a Southern state.
In name only is the city I grew up in since I was 6 years old.
It used to be a large Mayberry.
It is no longer the city I grew up in, and instead of a large Mayberry, it has become almost a twin brother to Atlanta.
The lesson here is:
Don't ever call a place Paradise....because as soon as you do you can soon kiss it goodbye.
I77 needs to be widened to a full 4-5 lanes between Columbia sc to charlotte
It makes my heart happy seeing nearly empty tolls after what they paid to construct them.
That is going be a nightmare, that area tight
Ft Mill firm? ESP Associates? Been there…this problem has been kicked down the road long enough. A prior commenter spoke of the lack of overall planning, we locals agree.
Why, why don't they install metered ramps like Atlanta. I hate driving north from Carowinds knowing I'm going to have to slow down (stop) because of the huge peleton of cars that are dumped on the highway from Tyvola.
1. Money
2. There may be conditions where they don't make sense. For example an on ramp that has heavy truck traffic (trucks take a LONG time to get up to speed)
I believe when they build these toll lanes they’re also planning to add metered ramps.
Is there a way to avoid induced demand by traffic volume? Adding a BRT-only lane on highways is no big deal compare to trams.
I-77 blows. Commuting from uptown to Ballantyne is so boring. Wish the lynx went all the way there. That being said “one more lane bro” mentality is made even worse when it’s a toll lane. Toll lanes are a waste of space and make traffic worse. Very disappointing in seeing America continue to fail in creating sustainable infrastructure by giving in so deeply to car culture and having our public institutions care about “profit” 😒
I absolutely avoid I77 at rush hours. Even 485 can be a headache. Let one little fender bender happen and you'll be there for a while! Also people drive waaayyyy too fast.
Happy halloween.from nashville tennessee.
I know your channel focuses more on roads and highways, but can you make a video on why Charlotte water pipes are in such poor condition?
$1B to $2B price estimate change over almost 20 years can be largely explained by inflation.
I vote for the private road expansion. We need I-77 widened sooner than later.
We need an audit of transportation funds in the state. They increased the gas tax in the 90s to fund the growth of the roads and then blew the money. It’s just propaganda saying that it’s going to take so much longer for the state to do it than the private company to do it. I lived in Mooresville when they proposed the toll lane projects. Those communities hated the idea and they still hate that it’s there. Additionally Cintra was very much behind schedule with everything. Given their history of not being on time, public expansion of the road is the most equitable.
It depends on how it's done though. The way they did the ones north of downtown was pretty poor.
They are calling 74 between Mathews and Marshville a super street after they did construction to it, and built the 74 Monroe Bypass toll RD
Charlotte's traffic on I-77 is probably worse than Atlanta's is on I-20 (though not as bad as I-85 or I-75 in Atlanta). Charlotte is starting to have the same problems as Atlanta without quite the same benefits of being a cultural regional hub like Atlanta is, and that's a shame for me as a Carolinas resident for whom Charlotte is a closer place to do things than Atlanta is.
That I77 N toll is the worst idea ever conceived. Should have been a HOV lane.
I live in H-Town. I10 Katy Managed lanes should have been K-Walled up from the free mainlanes.
Just what we need. More LEXUS lanes for the rich. I despise this trend of putting in toll lanes that only the rich can afford. I77 is known for major accidents
I drive to Charlotte on i85 from Winston Salem 5 days a week and it's not enough road way for the population and will pay the toll if 85 would change if the road is nice to drive
Mo’ People Mo’ Problems 🤣🤣🤣
I love these videos
i believe the ncdot is going to widen 85 in Gastonia before 77
Yeah I think that's already in process
Great yet another reason on my list of reasons to not use I -77
All of those toll fees will leave the country and somehow find their way back into the pockets of the politicians who sponsored this terrible idea once again. Thye got away with it when they built the north bound HOT lanes - why not do it again. The average taxpayer will gladly shell out the ridiculous amount of money to line the pockets of the these crooks for as long as they can get away with it. The toll fees need to be kept in state and used to contribute to the upkeep of the other roadways that are being left to fend for some attention.
I'm thinking it would be better to build an I-77A *around* the city rather than trying to widen the road *through* the city.
The first thing I would do they probably have to put tolls to pay for the project but if they going to do that they need to expanded to six Lanes have three toll lanes and then have three free Lanes which would be 12 Lanes all together number two they definitely need to upgrade the transit system here if they going to build another line they definitely need to start building these trains elevated above the streets instead of having these trains run in the middle of the streets where you have to build more traffic lights cars have to wait for trains to pass by which means you got to burn more gas and more breaking on your car they definitely need to build a line probably from Monroe all the way to Gastonia and have to trains stop off at the airport or build a station at the airport on its way to Gastonia or back toward uptown and finally they definitely need to build a line for the northern section of the city from Uptown to Kannapolis and then another line there may be runs right along I-77 North going toward Cornelius in the Lake Norman area
10 to 15 years to purchase the right of way and get it done with NCDOT is just ridiculous. Even the private timeline is just silly. We built almost an entire continent spanning Interstate SYSTEM in the time it takes to do single roads.
Can anyone explain to me why the express lanes are so expensive in North Carolina? I came from Florida where I use the express lanes every day because they were so much less expensive than here. Even with the lower tolls, too many people did not use it where it became an issue of overcrowding. Now I stare at hundreds of millions of dollar of highway that sits empty because it’s too expensive. Somebody make it make sense. Seems like a lose lose for everybody this way.
These ones in Charlotte were built by and are operated by a private company that's focused on maximizing revenue. The ones in Florida are owned by the state and are for improving traffic flow.
I-77 definitely needs to be widened, however toll roads aren't the answer in my opinion. The majority of daily traffic is vehicles driving through the state from as far as New York to Florida. The toll lanes from lake Norman to Charlotte can be as high as $20 a day at peak traffic times. Add in the fact that we can't widen I-77 for 50 Years and a foreign company owns the HOT lanes is and was absurd. As far as the rail coming to the lake Norman area, I've been hearing this for Years, yet nothing is happening in Iredell county that I'm aware of. This is just another example of poor planning because they want the tax base first and then expand, but in this case tax payers have to pay even more if they want to avoid traffic. I could see a person having to pay $40 a day traveling from LKN to exit 1. What needs to happen is the state needs to get Federal help funding this. Additionally doesn't NC have a huge "rainy day" fund? Why not use that? Because they bet on the triangle over the Charlotte area.
NC DOT are the biggest clowns. Living in charlotte can be embarrassing. Our city planners are throwing away the opportunity of a lifetime.
Look at the triangle. Nice highways; easy to traverse. 77 has been a nightmare. Them procrastinating this will make charlotte hell for the next ten years.
Independence is another nightmare. It sucks. I live in south charlotte and I like it. City planners’ incompetence is what’s going to make this hell on earth.
I agree Independence is another nightmare and it's a schizophrenic road that needs to be a consistent type of road.
Naturally Raleigh politicians hate us here in Charlotte. Felt that same love when I lived in Virginia Beach, the rest of the state hated Tidewater and Northern Virginia and stole all the highway funds to give hundreds of interstate grade bypasses to every little town while the big cities suffered.
You’re exactly right. My husband is from a county outside of Wake and there are very few two-lane roads when getting off the highway. But you look at Concord, Salisbury, Matthews, Gastonia, Huntersville. As soon as you get off the highway and drive a quarter mile you’re down to two lanes. Not even a turning lane in the middle. We are much larger than the greater Raleigh area and we deserve good roads too for everything we bring to the state.
Hi Mike mileage how u like Columbia SC do u think it's big city it looks big I'm from south Carolina I live in south Carolina
midsize in terms on population at least
@@kushalyuh so it's small it's bigger than Atlanta I believe
Too small for my personal taste. Not enough amenities.
@@MileageMikeTravels it has different areas northeast southeast northwest downtown vista five points blythewood west Columbia Lexington irmo Pelion forest acres more
@@MileageMikeTravels so do u think Charleston is small or Charlotte
while the express lanes were nice, it was a let down since you must have the app turned on before using the express lanes for free with 3+ people in your vehicle with a transponder.
Most of this highway is wide enough. What need to be done is CD lanes is certain areas.. with DDIs added along with them in those same areas… A few major interchange rebuilds/ reconfigurations and widen near uptown… this would save space, time, money, and the headache of having to buy so much ROW…. Then in the future maybe elevated centered lanes Express lanes to the state line…
what are cd lanes?
@@kushalyuh collector‐distributor lane (sometimes referred to as a C‐D lane) is a lane specifically designed to handle entering and exiting traffic along a highway.
The current toll road was a very stupid idea.
The absolute worst section is between i-485 interchange to 277 exit - doesn't matter the time of day or the day itself - people merging onto I-77 from I485 create an absolute bottle next with how they try to shoot across all the lanes and can't understand "merging"
I still play Sim City 4
A shame they never made a proper Sim City 5.
@@MileageMikeTravels Agreed. The Network Addon Mod has kept it alive for me.
Just teach people to keep right! And you would only need 3 lanes each way...