He lost all credibility with that statement. Tom is the reason Boston had the great success they reached and why they have iconic albums. Brad’s voice is definitely a part of the success too. All due respect for everyone who played on the album, mixed, recorded, etc but truthfully they could have all been replaced by another equally talented person and the success of Boston would have been the same. My guess is if Brad hadn’t been a part of Boston Tom would have found another singer and we would still think of those albums as classics. Tom is a mastermind at what he wanted to create. Some call that controlling, obsessive or whatever but it truly is artistic at any cost and as a listener we owe him a thank you for not caving in and doing what others wanted.
@@MD-wk3gj You mean , after firing everyone , Tom Scholz sold another 100 millions ? Apologists will apologize abusers ... which is why abusers can abuse
I give credit to Tom for the success of forming Boston. Unfortunately Tom gives himself more credit the bands success than anyone ever could. Brad Delp’s voice was Boston.
Let's be honest, Mr Masdea: drummers are time keepers - not melody makers - during a performance. What makes Boston, "Boston" is Tom's incredible guitars & flashy keyboard. playing and Brad's powerhouse vocals.
Masdea, is full of shit. Tom, came up with all the melodies, lyrics and played everything on the first album, except drums. Masdea, didn't contribute anything. Sib played drums on the first two albums.
Not totally true. Time keepers, sure. But also contribute to the melody. He's exaggerating his influence, but your assessment is probably why. Because you diminish him down to merely a metronome. His drumming with Boston is in fact very recognizable, and participates in the swells and moods of the changes. Drum kits have drums with different pitches, as well as the cymbals. For time keeping? No, otherwise a snare and bass drum would be enough. Paying the entire kit makes it more orchestral, which plays a role in melody. Again, he's exaggerating his influence, but also he wasn't just a time keeper. Being demoted to such an insignificante role is what causes him to defend his part in creating those songs. So he's a victim of your unfair perspective, causing him to push back.
An intelligent historical overview and great speech by Masdea. Love that. Whether any of that is relevant to his actual contribution to Boston we will likely never know.
Essentially, the "Look at the shiny object" approach to making an argument (point) also known as "baffle them w/bulls**t" (not saying that what JM stated about music copyright wasn't correct, but it has little or no bearing on who should get writing credit for the first Boston album). IMO, JM did not say one word, or produce any evidence to support (if in fact he's claiming, or has claimed) his assertion that TS only developed the songs after jamming w/him. As someone else commented here, it's obvious the debut Boston album songs are guitar/keyboard driven songs, not drum. JM said himself, Tom led the jam sessions w/his portable keyboard (most likely because Tom had already created the basic sounds of the songs prior to meeting JM). Pretty obvious from John Beaudin's body language and comments, he knows JM is grasping at straws.
Jim's criticism is not focused on Tom Scholz. He is bucking the standard that spans the entire industry. Now look at his own analogy... The foundation of a house is what determines its architectural value? I see this to actually be a great analogy. And he is blind to how this justifies the standard where songwriting credit is split between the lyrics & tune writing only. You simply pour the concrete, and gravity is the force which flattens the foundation. The creativity happens above that. The easiest aspect to mechanize is drums. The 80s had Drum Machines. There was no 'Guitar Machine'. Nor any 'Lyrics Machine'. Yes, of course a human drummer does make a substantial creative contribution. And there is a legitimate argument to be made that the system is unfair to drummers. How can this be rectified fairly? I don't know. But what is clear to me is that Jim grossly overstates his case. Jim presents his story that it was a mistake that he didn't sue, and the Statute of Limitations got behind him. An easy guess is that his choice was driven by consulting with various lawyers who told him that if he attempted to sue, he would lose. Tom Scholz is remembered as a musical genius. But he is also a legal genius. The lone artist who took down CBS Records. Jim Masdea comes across like George Takei's hyper criticisms of William Shatner. Without Kirk, the world would neither know nor care about the contributions of Sulu. Takei did more than nothing. His role certainly added to the value of the show as a whole. But it was a minor role. The criticism reaks of professional jealousy. I'm glad that Tom has not taken up this invitation to present his side. Jim's story, and also Barry's are transparent enough. Both have valid points. But lack balance. I was not there. Imagine if we got the view of someone who was and was able to present a far more objective perspective. My guess is that it would align far more with Tom than the others.
This is what 50 years of bitterness sounds like. Boston is about the songs and the guitars, not a drummer who played some stuff while Tom was working out the tunes. I do believe that Tom is controlling and difficult but geniuses often are not the best people.
If you don't think about the guitar, vocals, and percussion when hearing Boston, then you're a simpleton. Those drum parts were huge, and most musicians think of those 3 elements when hearing Boston.
I disagree. Half of why I listen to the first boston album is the incredible drumming and drum sounds. I actually kind of ignore the guitar pyrotechnics. This guy is right, the feel of the songs is all encompassing. It's why I hate new music....drum sounds suck now compared to the 60s and 70s.
As a drummer and lead vocalist, I can say that yes, the drums are important in that they need to be solid and steady. The rhythm section is the foundation and needs to be locked and tight. But I don't see my position as the inspiration of the rest of the band. A good drummer will play off of solos, pick up ques, etc. This guy's ego has gotten the best of him. When he said "Sure, Tom finished it" Finished it? Tom conceived it, recorded it, performed it, engineered it, created the effects for it etc. Tom probably also told Jim what to play and he still hasn't gotten over it.
As a Boston fan since the debut album, I’ve always known about this guy. First time I’ve ever seen an interview with him. Very happy seeing this. That Boston accent is unmistakable. Enjoyed it!
FYI, these things probably did happen in Jim's basement in 1969-1970's, whatever. But he's a drummer. It could have been any other drummer. Just "laying down a beat" doesn't mean he "created" anything. Yes, he likely did create *some* of the Boston percussion sound at some point, but unlikely that he made much difference on the finished product from his early sessions with Tom.
Heh heh... yeah... we don't need to hear from anyone else. We know what this guy is about. The human ability to rationalize is truly incredible. It can allow someone who did next to nothing to think he did everything.
So Tom was the architect and Jim was kinda the foundations of the house..... and Tom was kinda the carpenter... the electrician.... the plumber..... the tiles.... but Jim put the stumps in..... and helped out with the vibe... lyrics are a big part of songs.... melodies too..... So let's look at the man hours each one contributed... hmmm....... wake up man you touched a genius and you were there..... isn't that enough.........
Jim Masdea has a point--the drummer's feel and rhythm choices can contribute to the development of a song (Ginger Baker made White Room's intro a bolero, for instance). But a song is, by definition sung, and the part of the composition that a cover artist uses is the lyrics, melody and chords; if a reggae band covered "let me take you home tonight" they wouldn't use anything the original drummer contributed. What drummers who feel like Jim should do is fight for credit as a co-arranger, and they should do it as the music is being made, not 50 years later.
I've always wondered who writes the drum parts and why no credit is given. Many songs have magical drum moments and they were not written by the lyricist.
I accidentally watched some of these interviews out of order. Wish I wud have started here at the beginning. Lol. Although I’m sure he’s a nice good hearted guy, as many have mentioned, he seems to go a tad overboard here. I play drums and sure, we can lay down a nice beat and inspire, but I wud never delude myself into thinking I helped create a complete melody with a drum beat.
Very interesting comments from Jim. I know Tom has always acknowledged Jim as the drummer on the debut album. Never new how much Jim was a part of the process until now.
I've met Jim a few times and talked with him on the phone as well, and he told me a lot of the same things. He said when they first got together, he explained to Tom about verse, chorus, bridge and how to write songs. And to a certain degree, I have to agree with him about the drums being a very critical part of the foundation for Boston's music, especially on those first 2 albums. I've had many drummers tell me that they most definitely are not just standard percussion rhythms and because of that, are not easy to play. You can definitely hear how the many timing changes, stops, starts, and fills affect the rhythms that Tom wrote over them. So I do see some truth in what Jim is saying that he could have acted as an inspiration for Tom to write rhythms and melodies over those drum parts. Aside from the legal arena, I do believe Tom has credited and acknowledged Jim's importance in those early days.... perhaps not to the extent Jim would like, but I have heard him talk about it. At the end of the day, it was a collaboration, and through that collaboration, we got some great music. I thank both Jim and Tom for it!!!
Grew up hearing the name, and saw him--I think--play some material during the Third Stage tour. Having been in bands and on the road myself, I'm starting to get a sense of how much (not) fun it would be having this guy on the bus.
I've spent a fair amount of time with Jim. He's got a good heart. He doesn't present well here because (I suspect) of the way things turned out and all the time that has passed without sharing this. The same thing could happen to any of us, perhaps?
I'm a drummer who got _Third Stage_ when it was new, and I think he's full of it. He's a good, serviceable player - you'd have to be to get onto a Boston album - but I don't recall anything extraordinary about his parts. I certainly don't buy the idea that he was such an inspiration to Scholz that he merits equal credit. To my knowledge, Buddy Rich himself didn't get writing credits for the charts he played (please correct me if I'm wrong). Stewart Copeland's unique style contributed far more to the Police's sound than any Boston drum part I can think of contributed to the sound of Boston, but Copeland didn't get writing credits for Sting's hits. As much as I support drummers, for the most part in rock and roll, they are role players (pardon the pun). Scholz and Delp were indispensable to the Boston sound; one might argue that Barry's guitar was the third piece that completed most of the puzzle. But many rock drummers of the era could've filled that chair well enough (no disrespect meant to Hashian and his excellent performances, either).
He’s talking like a ton of us frustrated drummers who feel we helped write and arrange the songs as they evolved out of jams but didn’t get credit. It takes a mature type of musician, collaborator and person to say “hey the drummer was a huge part of that.” On the other hand so many drummers aren’t good enough to have that type of impact. But some are. It is really a song-by-song basis. It’s one reason why if you are a drummer in a band where the material is generated out of jams or collaborative playing - record all the rehearsals. Every time. I tried to. Some groups like Sabbath and VH just simplified it and said “we give the drummer a quarter of all the publishing.” Others like Townshend said no - I don’t care how innovative and incredible Moon is - he gets nothing. The songs are mine and came from my meticulously crafted demos. There’s no one size fits all on this. And finally, for better or worse, 99% of us never get to the point where the songs are published and there would be any real dispute involving money or intellectual property.
I assume the Kevin that Jim was referring to was Kevin Hartford, that Tom included in the liner notes on 'Third Stage'. 'Don't Be Afraid' was on 'Don't Look Back' and the early demos, again, I assume Jim worked on that song as well. Jim seems like a very smart guy, its no wonder Tom hit it off well with him.
And here I thought it was great hooks and melodies that built ANY song (Rock or otherwise). Silly us for not singing the drum parts of songs instead of the tune.
@@stevehammer781 they're equal. how lame would rush be without neil peart's inventive drumming? people literally listen to isolated drum tracks on youtube. Drums, guitars, bass, organ, they're all equal parts.
This must be why Led Zeppelin never continued after John Bonham died. I never really appreciated why his contributions were so crucial to Led Zeppelin creating songs to begin with.
Songs really stat with percussive foundations. The the other parts fill out the song. All are intricate to the piece. and it’s a fact finding mission at the beginning. These guys seem more perfectionists in what they are creating. Impressive and passionate.
What I wouldn't give for tom scholz to come on and do a interview. At this point everyone so far that has been on your program has taken credit for the the success of Boston. Listening to them tom scholz was just somebody In the shadows without clue.
Jim, you’re right about the drums being the foundation….dynamics are what you’re talking about. And the drums control that. But if you want more Recognition You should have been a front man.
just the drums wouldnt be considered a song tho. the lyrics/melody/chords are the song. the drums and bass etc just respond to the written song. i see what hes saying a little, but there can still be a song without the drums, but the drums without the lyrics and melody is pretty much just drums... having said that...i have to admit that the drum accents on the first record seriously influenced the bassline accents a LOT, which also influenced me as a bassist hugely ! and in turn, effected my drumming as well. not that i sound a damn thing like boston...but i loooooove boston. all in all, i dont think this guy should get song writing credit for mere drum parts, but i dont think that original album would have been the same without him.
Oh, So Tom Scholz was just basically there to watch this guy create the first Boston Album & the Boston Sound ...Tom just fiddled around tinkering this & that while this guy told Tom what to do & how to do it ! Damn , Good thing this guy was there, otherwise the Music that Tom wrote wouldn't have ever been written the way this guy planned it ... It was the drummer all along ... And Tom took the credit for it for all these years ... Did Tom Scholz even really Play on the album ?? I don't know now after hearing this guy tell the REAL Story ... Damn Tom and his ego... Without this guy , Tom would have amounted to nothing...
Nowhere in that clip does he say he told Tom what to play and how to play it. You’re just being silly. The fact is that they played off each other for years to develop these songs. When Tom and Jim first got together Tom had already written Foreplay. Everyone of of those drum hits you hear on that album (except for Let Me Take You Home Tonight) was inspired and first played by Jim.
This guy is looking for more credit than is due to him.... I'm sure that there were instances here and there , where the drummer played a catch beat, an offbeat hit , and they decided that it was cool and kept it in the song... Sure .. That happens all the time... But this guy wants Musical Notation Credits.... I'm a multi-instrumentalist and I also write Symphonic Music, so I know what I'm talking about and I also know what he's implying by his own words ... Ask this guy what the relative Major is in the key of C minor? Tom Knows ! Music is so so much more than just the backseat or the drum part... Or any single part really. If anyone should get More credit for the Boston songs and sound , it should be Brad Delp, not the beat keeper ....He kept saying Tom was playing to ME !! ummmm .... Ok , you might as well have been a metronome though, because someone, something needs to keep the tempo consistent throughout ... Tom is part Genius , part Perfectionist, do you think he would take Musical advice from......well Anyone ?? Geniuses are always listening and learning , but they immediately know who they'll take advice from and who to shut out... A collaboration with Tom was at best 95 Tom , 5 the other person ... Maybe 90, 10... This guy wants to tell the world that it was at least 50, 50 !!!! All I'm saying is that even though I'm sure that this guy contributed , he didn't contribute as much as hes claiming ... When John William's wrote a violin piece for a movie, did the violinist claim writing credit? Did John William's claim to have played the violin? This guy is claiming Too Much Credit To Himself For All Things Boston...
I don't doubt Jim Masdea's version of events but why do I suspect Tom Scholz will absolutely disagree with any view that takes anything away from Tom's legacy.
In terms of albums credits, Jim Masdea and Bernard Purdie must be the two most ripped off drummers of the last 50 years. It's also interesting to note that Purdie was the uncredited drummer on the early MGM records by Bruce Arnold's seminol group, Orpheus, a band which Scholz, Masdea and Delp have all stated played a huge role in their decision to pursue music as a full time profession. You need to interview Orpheus next.
I tend to take what Jim is explaining here to heart. I don’t get the feeling that he’s trying to take and run away with all the glory of the Boston story. I think what he’s explaining here is simply what happened during the infancy of the project/group. Tom may be responsible to the album’s crips sounding, slick production but…rock music BEGINS with the drums. The Zeppelin story is almost quite similar. Page was responsible for the new, crisp sounding first record but without Bonzo, there’s no Led-ANYTHING. They all had to keep up with HIM from the very first time they all gathered to the very last time. I have no snags in listening to Jim’s commentary here. In fact it’s quite refreshing and dispels much of the looooooong taaaaaaaaaall stories that have grown like skyscrapers over the years. As John says; Tom is more than welcome to come on and join the convo but….crickets so far.
John Bonham’s rhythms, playing style and tone are 1/4 of the sound of Led Zeppelin. Without him, Zep had to close up shop. I wonder what Bonham’s financial arrangement is, because no doubt his estate is still receiving income from all things Zeppelin. ‘Rock n Roll Band’ has one of the bitchinest drum beats in the history of rock music. Totally makes that song.
I obviously wasn’t there when Boston wrote their songs so I can’t say who’s right or wrong in their case 9:26 but in general I know some co-writing credit often gets overlooked whether on purpose or not.
This is a complicated point brought up by him…collaboration with a drummer DOES inspire…but it doesn’t inspire the melody, it inspires arrangement and maybe some production…he should have gotten some production credit but not songwriting credit…he made a point against his argument right at the end when he said “it’s just the same three chords”. Yes it is but there are an infinite amount of possibilities within those chords and it’s the songwriter who finds those melodies, not the drummer…the drummer IS the foundation, and again that’s more arrangement…the melody is inside the writer
Sib’s parts were SO much more than a simple reproduction of Jim’s demo parts. And Sib’s execution was superior. Tom has always had a problem with the fact that he couldn’t control (key word) that Jim was replaced at the insistence of the managers/label/producer: Tom and Jim each have been trying to revise history for decades now at the expense of Sib. Get over it, already! Jim was credited appropriately. He wrote a song for Third Stage and was credited and paid. He toured for the big comeback tour, if you will, and played a few songs each night then watched the real professional drummer, Doug Huffman, play the rest of the show. I empathize with Jim, but things worked out the way they should have in terms of the band’s success and legacy. Let Sib rest In peace.
@@mcdude0192 yes I know and for that reason I don’t like him or care much for the music to be brutally honest, Give me Toto and Journey any day of the week even they have had their ups and downs but they sure don’t include someone like Scholz in their bands thank god
Melodies and lyrics are typically what is considered "songwriting" when establishing publishing rights. At least it is within Rock, Pop and Country music. As such I don't think Mr. Masdea has much of legal leg to stand on with regard to his "rhythmic foundation" argument.
He’s got a point about the foundation, but I also think that, besides a few special ones, drummers are a dime a dozen. I know that the record company wanted the drummer replaced. If he’s so special, why would that be? I’m thinking Tom Scholz is going to balk at the fact that Jim was HIS inspiration.
His playing on the album was great, but come on, Tom wrote the tunes and masterminded the whole thing. Grooves are one thing but, fact is those songs would have happened either way…
uh, little too much self credit here. Drums w/o the keys/guitar is just a beat. But guitar/keys w/o drums is still music. But good drum parts that fit well is always in style. Keep good time and play what the tune seems to want.
Boy what a different view he has now... In previous interviews, his reverence for Tom was way over the top and now he seems to back track on that. I can't tell what his point is. Sounds like he wants royalties as a songwriter. Does that mean every session drummer or player should get royalties and songwriting credits. I hear the sound of a can of worms opening here.
Delusions of grandeur, much? Yikes. Masdea's grooves may have been an inspiration to Tom Sholtz, but to suggest that those drum parts somehow implied the compositional elements of the first Boston record is coo coo.
Jim, is like buying a lottery scratch out and giving it to your friend, he scratches it and guess what!!, he wins 50,000 thousand dollars....!!! get it.. hey man, dont be hurt about it, be happy.
I am sure there is some truth to Tom being a control freak and others may have contributed to the music more than Tom is willing to admit, but it still seems Tom is the one that re-recorded the demo's in the early 70's and eventually attracted the record company.
Not to diminish the value of percussion, but music is written with strings, guitar, piano, keyboards, etc. Not aware of any music written on drums. I could be wrong. I'm a dumb guy. But, my take is the guy Tom Scholz chose to play drums is not the artistic engine driving Boston. Just a guess.
That was painfull.....as is apparent on John's face. As a pro drummer for over 45 years, and I am a very good drummer, not bragging, on my honor, Jim has a ego problem. As talented drummers go I.E. Steve Smith...Todd Sucherman....Tommy Aldridge.....and many many more.....Jim ain't one of them!!! Regards ALL!!!!!!
I picture this guy telling this story, unrequested, in every bar he wanders into.
You find a way to pay your bar tab and escape
“ I was inspiring Tom.” Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. He’s a legend.....in his own mind.
He lost all credibility with that statement.
Tom is the reason Boston had the great success they reached and why they have iconic albums.
Brad’s voice is definitely a part of the success too.
All due respect for everyone who played on the album, mixed, recorded, etc but truthfully they could have all been replaced by another equally talented person and the success of Boston would have been the same.
My guess is if Brad hadn’t been a part of Boston Tom would have found another singer and we would still think of those albums as classics.
Tom is a mastermind at what he wanted to create. Some call that controlling, obsessive or whatever but it truly is artistic at any cost and as a listener we owe him a thank you for not caving in and doing what others wanted.
@@MD-wk3gj trouble is no one could sing like him. Maybe Steve Perry would have been good with them. Or maybe the lead singer/ guitarist from Triumph.
@@MD-wk3gj You mean , after firing everyone , Tom Scholz sold another 100 millions ?
Apologists will apologize abusers ... which is why abusers can abuse
He said that about 10 times
LOL can you imagine Pete Best talking shit like this? Pure comedy gold....
And here I thought Peart or Bonham were the best drummers of all time. All along it was this guy I have never heard of. His modesty is so refreshing.
hahahahah
This guy was way better than Bonham. The drumming on the Boston songs is superb. Bonham just hit hard.
😂😂😂
I give credit to Tom for the success of forming Boston. Unfortunately Tom gives himself more credit the bands success than anyone ever could. Brad Delp’s voice was Boston.
Your comment is funnier than the one you replied to! Masdea didn’t play all the drum parts on the first album anyway.
I get the feeling he's been waiting for years to be interviewed.
That's exactly what I thought.
About 40 years....😁
I get the feeling he doesn't get out of the house much, because the crap he's saying would be laughed off by anyone over the age of 18.
Loves the words, "me" "my" "I"........ Didn't realize how awesome he was until he told us.......
i’m a drummer, then never heard anything like this. This is off the charts crazy.
Let's be honest, Mr Masdea: drummers are time keepers - not melody makers - during a performance. What makes Boston, "Boston" is Tom's incredible guitars & flashy keyboard. playing and Brad's powerhouse vocals.
Yep
Masdea, is full of shit. Tom, came up with all the melodies, lyrics and played everything on the first album, except drums. Masdea, didn't contribute anything. Sib played drums on the first two albums.
Not totally true. Time keepers, sure. But also contribute to the melody. He's exaggerating his influence, but your assessment is probably why. Because you diminish him down to merely a metronome. His drumming with Boston is in fact very recognizable, and participates in the swells and moods of the changes. Drum kits have drums with different pitches, as well as the cymbals. For time keeping? No, otherwise a snare and bass drum would be enough. Paying the entire kit makes it more orchestral, which plays a role in melody. Again, he's exaggerating his influence, but also he wasn't just a time keeper. Being demoted to such an insignificante role is what causes him to defend his part in creating those songs. So he's a victim of your unfair perspective, causing him to push back.
In the key of boom.
Somebody's looking for some royalties...
An intelligent historical overview and great speech by Masdea. Love that. Whether any of that is relevant to his actual contribution to Boston we will likely never know.
Essentially, the "Look at the shiny object" approach to making an argument (point) also known as "baffle them w/bulls**t" (not saying that what JM stated about music copyright wasn't correct, but it has little or no bearing on who should get writing credit for the first Boston album). IMO, JM did not say one word, or produce any evidence to support (if in fact he's claiming, or has claimed) his assertion that TS only developed the songs after jamming w/him. As someone else commented here, it's obvious the debut Boston album songs are guitar/keyboard driven songs, not drum. JM said himself, Tom led the jam sessions w/his portable keyboard (most likely because Tom had already created the basic sounds of the songs prior to meeting JM). Pretty obvious from John Beaudin's body language and comments, he knows JM is grasping at straws.
Jim's criticism is not focused on Tom Scholz. He is bucking the standard that spans the entire industry.
Now look at his own analogy...
The foundation of a house is what determines its architectural value? I see this to actually be a great analogy. And he is blind to how this justifies the standard where songwriting credit is split between the lyrics & tune writing only. You simply pour the concrete, and gravity is the force which flattens the foundation. The creativity happens above that.
The easiest aspect to mechanize is drums. The 80s had Drum Machines. There was no 'Guitar Machine'. Nor any 'Lyrics Machine'.
Yes, of course a human drummer does make a substantial creative contribution. And there is a legitimate argument to be made that the system is unfair to drummers. How can this be rectified fairly? I don't know. But what is clear to me is that Jim grossly overstates his case.
Jim presents his story that it was a mistake that he didn't sue, and the Statute of Limitations got behind him. An easy guess is that his choice was driven by consulting with various lawyers who told him that if he attempted to sue, he would lose.
Tom Scholz is remembered as a musical genius. But he is also a legal genius. The lone artist who took down CBS Records.
Jim Masdea comes across like George Takei's hyper criticisms of William Shatner. Without Kirk, the world would neither know nor care about the contributions of Sulu. Takei did more than nothing. His role certainly added to the value of the show as a whole. But it was a minor role.
The criticism reaks of professional jealousy. I'm glad that Tom has not taken up this invitation to present his side. Jim's story, and also Barry's are transparent enough. Both have valid points. But lack balance.
I was not there. Imagine if we got the view of someone who was and was able to present a far more objective perspective. My guess is that it would align far more with Tom than the others.
One word, WOW...... This guy is full of himself
Really nice job John, Your experience as a seasoned, well-oiled interviewer really shines on this!!
I am Mantis, nice German shepherd on your profile pic.
We love Jimmy! A true renaissance man.
This is a crazy story . I totally believe Mr Masdea . Only means , so much was left on the table !
This is what 50 years of bitterness sounds like. Boston is about the songs and the guitars, not a drummer who played some stuff while Tom was working out the tunes. I do believe that Tom is controlling and difficult but geniuses often are not the best people.
If you don't think about the guitar, vocals, and percussion when hearing Boston, then you're a simpleton. Those drum parts were huge, and most musicians think of those 3 elements when hearing Boston.
I disagree. Half of why I listen to the first boston album is the incredible drumming and drum sounds. I actually kind of ignore the guitar pyrotechnics. This guy is right, the feel of the songs is all encompassing. It's why I hate new music....drum sounds suck now compared to the 60s and 70s.
As a drummer and lead vocalist, I can say that yes, the drums are important in that they need to be solid and steady. The rhythm section is the foundation and needs to be locked and tight. But I don't see my position as the inspiration of the rest of the band. A good drummer will play off of solos, pick up ques, etc. This guy's ego has gotten the best of him. When he said "Sure, Tom finished it" Finished it? Tom conceived it, recorded it, performed it, engineered it, created the effects for it etc. Tom probably also told Jim what to play and he still hasn't gotten over it.
As a Boston fan since the debut album, I’ve always known about this guy. First time I’ve ever seen an interview with him. Very happy seeing this.
That Boston accent is unmistakable. Enjoyed it!
These interviews are really interesting thanks for posting hope one day to hear from fran Sheehan
He marches to the beat of his own drum lol!
John, Love this. Boston has always been a favorite!!! I cried like a brat when Brad Delp died.... What a band.
Nothing wrong with crying.
I put Brad in the same rock singing class as Freddy Mercury and Steve Perry.
FYI, these things probably did happen in Jim's basement in 1969-1970's, whatever. But he's a drummer. It could have been any other drummer. Just "laying down a beat" doesn't mean he "created" anything. Yes, he likely did create *some* of the Boston percussion sound at some point, but unlikely that he made much difference on the finished product from his early sessions with Tom.
Heh heh... yeah... we don't need to hear from anyone else. We know what this guy is about. The human ability to rationalize is truly incredible. It can allow someone who did next to nothing to think he did everything.
What an awesome humble guy!
I remember Aldo Nova saying “I have a gift”.
So Tom was the architect and Jim was kinda the foundations of the house..... and Tom was kinda the carpenter... the electrician.... the plumber..... the tiles.... but Jim put the stumps in..... and helped out with the vibe... lyrics are a big part of songs.... melodies too..... So let's look at the man hours each one contributed... hmmm....... wake up man you touched a genius and you were there..... isn't that enough.........
I wish there were little thought bubbles that would pop up next to John’s head during this interview llol
Jim Masdea has a point--the drummer's feel and rhythm choices can contribute to the development of a song (Ginger Baker made White Room's intro a bolero, for instance). But a song is, by definition sung, and the part of the composition that a cover artist uses is the lyrics, melody and chords; if a reggae band covered "let me take you home tonight" they wouldn't use anything the original drummer contributed. What drummers who feel like Jim should do is fight for credit as a co-arranger, and they should do it as the music is being made, not 50 years later.
I've always wondered who writes the drum parts and why no credit is given. Many songs have magical drum moments and they were not written by the lyricist.
Drumbeats are not part of the composition. Melodies and lyrics are.
I accidentally watched some of these interviews out of order. Wish I wud have started here at the beginning. Lol. Although I’m sure he’s a nice good hearted guy, as many have mentioned, he seems to go a tad overboard here. I play drums and sure, we can lay down a nice beat and inspire, but I wud never delude myself into thinking I helped create a complete melody with a drum beat.
Very interesting comments from Jim. I know Tom has always acknowledged Jim as the drummer on the debut album. Never new how much Jim was a part of the process until now.
Credit on “Rock & Roll Band.”
He was just Tom's Skippy. He didn't help to write song melodies.
I've met Jim a few times and talked with him on the phone as well, and he told me a lot of the same things. He said when they first got together, he explained to Tom about verse, chorus, bridge and how to write songs. And to a certain degree, I have to agree with him about the drums being a very critical part of the foundation for Boston's music, especially on those first 2 albums. I've had many drummers tell me that they most definitely are not just standard percussion rhythms and because of that, are not easy to play. You can definitely hear how the many timing changes, stops, starts, and fills affect the rhythms that Tom wrote over them. So I do see some truth in what Jim is saying that he could have acted as an inspiration for Tom to write rhythms and melodies over those drum parts. Aside from the legal arena, I do believe Tom has credited and acknowledged Jim's importance in those early days.... perhaps not to the extent Jim would like, but I have heard him talk about it. At the end of the day, it was a collaboration, and through that collaboration, we got some great music. I thank both Jim and Tom for it!!!
Grew up hearing the name, and saw him--I think--play some material during the Third Stage tour. Having been in bands and on the road myself, I'm starting to get a sense of how much (not) fun it would be having this guy on the bus.
I've spent a fair amount of time with Jim. He's got a good heart. He doesn't present well here because (I suspect) of the way things turned out and all the time that has passed without sharing this. The same thing could happen to any of us, perhaps?
I'm a drummer who got _Third Stage_ when it was new, and I think he's full of it. He's a good, serviceable player - you'd have to be to get onto a Boston album - but I don't recall anything extraordinary about his parts. I certainly don't buy the idea that he was such an inspiration to Scholz that he merits equal credit. To my knowledge, Buddy Rich himself didn't get writing credits for the charts he played (please correct me if I'm wrong). Stewart Copeland's unique style contributed far more to the Police's sound than any Boston drum part I can think of contributed to the sound of Boston, but Copeland didn't get writing credits for Sting's hits.
As much as I support drummers, for the most part in rock and roll, they are role players (pardon the pun). Scholz and Delp were indispensable to the Boston sound; one might argue that Barry's guitar was the third piece that completed most of the puzzle. But many rock drummers of the era could've filled that chair well enough (no disrespect meant to Hashian and his excellent performances, either).
He’s talking like a ton of us frustrated drummers who feel we helped write and arrange the songs as they evolved out of jams but didn’t get credit. It takes a mature type of musician, collaborator and person to say “hey the drummer was a huge part of that.” On the other hand so many drummers aren’t good enough to have that type of impact. But some are. It is really a song-by-song basis. It’s one reason why if you are a drummer in a band where the material is generated out of jams or collaborative playing - record all the rehearsals. Every time. I tried to.
Some groups like Sabbath and VH just simplified it and said “we give the drummer a quarter of all the publishing.” Others like Townshend said no - I don’t care how innovative and incredible Moon is - he gets nothing. The songs are mine and came from my meticulously crafted demos.
There’s no one size fits all on this.
And finally, for better or worse, 99% of us never get to the point where the songs are published and there would be any real dispute involving money or intellectual property.
Great points about when music publishing was written and such! I collect drums and I love the history of how drum sets were put together and created.
Interesting Masdea should've been interviewed a lot sooner.
I wonder if he would've said all this before the album took off.
Jim Masdea is the unsung hero behind the first and part of the second Boston albums. 😎👍
I'd say it was Scholz and Delp
I'm a drummer and a guitar player. I understand what he says. but oh my he is annoying.
Thanks for sticking up for the rhythm section!
Very interesting interview. It’s always informative to hear all the sides.
I assume the Kevin that Jim was referring to was Kevin Hartford, that Tom included in the liner notes on 'Third Stage'.
'Don't Be Afraid' was on 'Don't Look Back' and the early demos, again, I assume Jim worked on that song as well.
Jim seems like a very smart guy, its no wonder Tom hit it off well with him.
@@bobsyerunkle5638 Thanks for the info.
I’m a guitar player of 44 years. I will agree: Rock songs are built on the drums.
And here I thought it was great hooks and melodies that built ANY song (Rock or otherwise). Silly us for not singing the drum parts of songs instead of the tune.
@@stevehammer781 they're equal. how lame would rush be without neil peart's inventive drumming? people literally listen to isolated drum tracks on youtube. Drums, guitars, bass, organ, they're all equal parts.
This must be why Led Zeppelin never continued after John Bonham died. I never really appreciated why his contributions were so crucial to Led Zeppelin creating songs to begin with.
I have a feeling, if you ask this guy, he would take sole responsibility for Creating the First Drum Kit, ever known to Mankind !!!
Songs really stat with percussive foundations. The the other parts fill out the song. All are intricate to the piece. and it’s a fact finding mission at the beginning. These guys seem more perfectionists in what they are creating. Impressive and passionate.
He comes across as a bit full of himself, but he makes a great point about drummers not getting the credit they deserve for songwriting.
🤦♂️I am speechless.
What I wouldn't give for tom scholz to come on and do a interview. At this point everyone so far that has been on your program has taken credit for the the success of Boston. Listening to them tom scholz was just somebody In the shadows without clue.
Scholz and Delp were Boston.
He’s to full of himself he would never do it
Jim, you’re right about the drums being the foundation….dynamics are what you’re talking about. And the drums control that.
But if you want more Recognition You should have been a front man.
just the drums wouldnt be considered a song tho. the lyrics/melody/chords are the song. the drums and bass etc just respond to the written song.
i see what hes saying a little, but there can still be a song without the drums, but the drums without the lyrics and melody is pretty much just drums...
having said that...i have to admit that the drum accents on the first record seriously influenced the bassline accents a LOT, which also influenced me as a bassist hugely !
and in turn, effected my drumming as well. not that i sound a damn thing like boston...but i loooooove boston.
all in all, i dont think this guy should get song writing credit for mere drum parts, but i dont think that original album would have been the same without him.
Mothers Milk was the name of the band ... This was Barry Goudreau's band
This was Barry and Sib’s blues band in the early ‘70’s. Tom occasionally played keyboards with them.
Oh, So Tom Scholz was just basically there to watch this guy create the first Boston Album & the Boston Sound ...Tom just fiddled around tinkering this & that while this guy told Tom what to do & how to do it ! Damn , Good thing this guy was there, otherwise the Music that Tom wrote wouldn't have ever been written the way this guy planned it ... It was the drummer all along ... And Tom took the credit for it for all these years ... Did Tom Scholz even really Play on the album ?? I don't know now after hearing this guy tell the REAL Story ... Damn Tom and his ego... Without this guy , Tom would have amounted to nothing...
That's not what he said. He admitted that, "Tom was the brains and the one doing the melodic construction."
Nowhere in that clip does he say he told Tom what to play and how to play it. You’re just being silly. The fact is that they played off each other for years to develop these songs.
When Tom and Jim first got together Tom had already written Foreplay. Everyone of of those drum hits you hear on that album (except for Let Me Take You Home Tonight) was inspired and first played by Jim.
🤣🤣🤣
Sarcasm surely??
This guy is looking for more credit than is due to him.... I'm sure that there were instances here and there , where the drummer played a catch beat, an offbeat hit , and they decided that it was cool and kept it in the song... Sure .. That happens all the time... But this guy wants Musical Notation Credits.... I'm a multi-instrumentalist and I also write Symphonic Music, so I know what I'm talking about and I also know what he's implying by his own words ... Ask this guy what the relative Major is in the key of C minor? Tom Knows ! Music is so so much more than just the backseat or the drum part... Or any single part really. If anyone should get More credit for the Boston songs and sound , it should be Brad Delp, not the beat keeper ....He kept saying Tom was playing to ME !! ummmm .... Ok , you might as well have been a metronome though, because someone, something needs to keep the tempo consistent throughout ... Tom is part Genius , part Perfectionist, do you think he would take Musical advice from......well Anyone ?? Geniuses are always listening and learning , but they immediately know who they'll take advice from and who to shut out... A collaboration with Tom was at best 95 Tom , 5 the other person ... Maybe 90, 10... This guy wants to tell the world that it was at least 50, 50 !!!! All I'm saying is that even though I'm sure that this guy contributed , he didn't contribute as much as hes claiming ... When John William's wrote a violin piece for a movie, did the violinist claim writing credit? Did John William's claim to have played the violin? This guy is claiming Too Much Credit To Himself For All Things Boston...
Thought provoking interview.
I don't doubt Jim Masdea's version of events but why do I suspect Tom Scholz will absolutely disagree with any view that takes anything away from Tom's legacy.
“The foundation gives the house its uniqueness...” what a load of bs.
The foundation gives a house its...basement. ;-)
I thought the front door gave it it's uniqueness?
In terms of albums credits, Jim Masdea and Bernard Purdie must be the two most ripped off drummers of the last 50 years. It's also interesting to note that Purdie was the uncredited drummer on the early MGM records by Bruce Arnold's seminol group, Orpheus, a band which Scholz, Masdea and Delp have all stated played a huge role in their decision to pursue music as a full time profession. You need to interview Orpheus next.
I tend to take what Jim is explaining here to heart. I don’t get the feeling that he’s trying to take and run away with all the glory of the Boston story. I think what he’s explaining here is simply what happened during the infancy of the project/group. Tom may be responsible to the album’s crips sounding, slick production but…rock music BEGINS with the drums. The Zeppelin story is almost quite similar. Page was responsible for the new, crisp sounding first record but without Bonzo, there’s no Led-ANYTHING. They all had to keep up with HIM from the very first time they all gathered to the very last time. I have no snags in listening to Jim’s commentary here. In fact it’s quite refreshing and dispels much of the looooooong taaaaaaaaaall stories that have grown like skyscrapers over the years. As John says; Tom is more than welcome to come on and join the convo but….crickets so far.
John Bonham’s rhythms, playing style and tone are 1/4 of the sound of Led Zeppelin. Without him, Zep had to close up shop.
I wonder what Bonham’s financial arrangement is, because no doubt his estate is still receiving income from all things Zeppelin.
‘Rock n Roll Band’ has one of the bitchinest drum beats in the history of rock music.
Totally makes that song.
I obviously wasn’t there when Boston wrote their songs so I can’t say who’s right or wrong in their case 9:26 but in general I know some co-writing credit often gets overlooked whether on purpose or not.
That's some imagination, lol. This fellow lost his shopping cart.
This is a complicated point brought up by him…collaboration with a drummer DOES inspire…but it doesn’t inspire the melody, it inspires arrangement and maybe some production…he should have gotten some production credit but not songwriting credit…he made a point against his argument right at the end when he said “it’s just the same three chords”. Yes it is but there are an infinite amount of possibilities within those chords and it’s the songwriter who finds those melodies, not the drummer…the drummer IS the foundation, and again that’s more arrangement…the melody is inside the writer
Oh my! good interview so is it Jim M on rock and roll band only? Like the credits say?
100%
Yes Sib does all the songs on first album except RARB
Sib’s parts were SO much more than a simple reproduction of Jim’s demo parts. And Sib’s execution was superior. Tom has always had a problem with the fact that he couldn’t control (key word) that Jim was replaced at the insistence of the managers/label/producer: Tom and Jim each have been trying to revise history for decades now at the expense of Sib. Get over it, already! Jim was credited appropriately. He wrote a song for Third Stage and was credited and paid. He toured for the big comeback tour, if you will, and played a few songs each night then watched the real professional drummer, Doug Huffman, play the rest of the show. I empathize with Jim, but things worked out the way they should have in terms of the band’s success and legacy. Let Sib rest In peace.
Thanks all!
Wow this guy has one giant ego..
nice to hear the story behind the songs
I wish I could hear what this drummer guy was saying. Tom Scholz’s genius was drowning him out.
what do you call a person who hangs around musicians?
a drummer
that sounded pretty retarded.
💣 mind Blown, im Soo Educated 👍🏽the drummer,Music n money CHANGE people its a shame
Interesting interview. Don't know if I believe all he has to say.
Could you do one with Gary Pihl or if you dare, Tom himself?
@@Axess-sv8nq He says at the beginning of this one (0:30) that Tom is more than willing to come on.
He won’t come on here he’s too much up his own arse
@@Axess-sv8nq Sorry lol I was busy at work so I was just skipping through it
@@RogerMelodicMusic True he is terrible to his band
@@mcdude0192 yes I know and for that reason I don’t like him or care much for the music to be brutally honest, Give me Toto and Journey any day of the week even they have had their ups and downs but they sure don’t include someone like Scholz in their bands thank god
Good stuff. This fellow knows his craft and I always enjoy hearing the full story, especially when it goes against the social narrative.
So exciting to hear at 0:30 that Tom is willing to come onto the channel.
I think he just said that he is welcome to come onto the show.
Melodies and lyrics are typically what is considered "songwriting" when establishing publishing rights. At least it is within Rock, Pop and Country music. As such I don't think Mr. Masdea has much of legal leg to stand on with regard to his "rhythmic foundation" argument.
Jim join’s Bernard Purdie as the newest member of the “I deserve the credit” club
There's no doubt about it
Tom Scholz is A musical Genius but his Personality Reminds me alot like
Steve Jobs !!
Why did Sib replace him?
He’s got a point about the foundation, but I also think that, besides a few special ones, drummers are a dime a dozen. I know that the record company wanted the drummer replaced. If he’s so special, why would that be? I’m thinking Tom Scholz is going to balk at the fact that Jim was HIS inspiration.
I think he might be over dramatising his input. But was a part of the very early band history.
Drummers just don't get songwriting credit in most cases. It's a shame, cause I play many instruments, and drums deserve more respect.
Musicians get credit if they write or if the writer(s) let them have credit even if they didn't write
I'd like to know if anyone wants to hear Jim's "foundational" drumming, solo. 🙄
I do! 🙋🏼♀️
Very enlightening!
Let's hear the real story...from Tom.
This is every bit the real story. From Jim’s perspective.
This guy and Paul Stanley should have coffee.
*cawfee
Bizarre interview. But still nice to see. Tom said Boston was him, Brad Delp and Masdea.
His playing on the album was great, but come on, Tom wrote the tunes and masterminded the whole thing. Grooves are one thing but, fact is those songs would have happened either way…
uh, little too much self credit here. Drums w/o the keys/guitar is just a beat. But guitar/keys w/o drums is still music. But good drum parts that fit well is always in style. Keep good time and play what the tune seems to want.
Boy what a different view he has now... In previous interviews, his reverence for Tom was way over the top and now he seems to back track on that. I can't tell what his point is. Sounds like he wants royalties as a songwriter. Does that mean every session drummer or player should get royalties and songwriting credits. I hear the sound of a can of worms opening here.
Delusions of grandeur, much? Yikes. Masdea's grooves may have been an inspiration to Tom Sholtz, but to suggest that those drum parts somehow implied the compositional elements of the first Boston record is coo coo.
Jim, is like buying a lottery scratch out and giving it to your friend, he scratches it and guess what!!, he wins 50,000 thousand dollars....!!! get it.. hey man, dont be hurt about it, be happy.
I am sure there is some truth to Tom being a control freak and others may have contributed to the music more than Tom is willing to admit, but it still seems Tom is the one that re-recorded the demo's in the early 70's and eventually attracted the record company.
Intriguing. Clearly an intelligent man …
Tom doesn't have to respond to this,......
We know what this is all about,......
😭
Why are we hearing this 45 years later? Seems legit but would love to see Tom on RHM and hear his view point. Give Tom a call, John.
He knows.
Oh Boy !
The likely unintentionally incredulous look on John's face says it all. He's clearly not buying Jim's arguments...and I'm not either.
Not to diminish the value of percussion, but music is written with strings, guitar, piano, keyboards, etc. Not aware of any music written on drums. I could be wrong. I'm a dumb guy. But, my take is the guy Tom Scholz chose to play drums is not the artistic engine driving Boston. Just a guess.
When did u EVER see ANY band lookat the vocalist to see him go
“ 1,2-123 4foh”🤔🤔🤔🤔
So more than a feeling and rock n roll band was written by the drummer? Then the chords? I don’t think so.
nuts, whole Hazel nuts, cadburys take them and they cover them with chocolate
That was painfull.....as is apparent on John's face. As a pro drummer for over 45 years, and I am a very good drummer, not bragging, on my honor, Jim has a ego problem. As talented drummers go I.E. Steve Smith...Todd Sucherman....Tommy Aldridge.....and many many more.....Jim ain't one of them!!! Regards ALL!!!!!!