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I just watched Bill Pinto message in response to this one and it wasn’t much scripture to prove Nader wrong mostly quotes from the pioneers and transcript of what he said but I see the Bible clearly says “by one man sin entered into the world and death which was passed upon all men” what is death? The wages of sin, in Genesis 5 Seth was begotten(born) into Adam image and likeness which is a nature independent of God(selfishness and death) EGW says in WB sept 9, 1902 par 3 “All sin is selfishness” which we all inherited so understand when it says in Rom 5:19 “by one man disobedience many were made sinners”
Revelation1412org on another message Bill Pinto did “was Jesus born born again” he misunderstood what you and Imad said(having a advantage), Sister White always mention about partaking of the Divine nature which is the grace,power the advantage he offers to us,divinity and humanity and also I want to mention something in reference to the ones who quote Ellen White(GC- why sin was permitted)about the only definition for sin is transgression of the law well they always stop there and don’t finish what else she says “it is the out working of a principle at War with the great law of love” Rom 8:7 says that’s the carnal mind which is enmity(at war) against God
Revelation1412org thank you for responding it meant a lot to me, the Lord has blessed me thru you and for you to respond means a lot because I’m encouraging and be a blessing to someone as well
Liberating Truth !!!! I'm so grateful God has not taken the risk to make my salvation depend of my doing . Eternally thankful . To God be the glory. Great message
I'm so glad that God has solved the sin problem. Holiness is not rapture, but an entire surrender of the will to God. I have listened to every talk by Nader that I can find. And this one really so openly clarifies the truth in the Bible. Thank you
That was one of the most challenging presentation I have ever heard... right there with the one I stumbled upon on youtube a few years ago, in which you were presenting the truth about God and His Son. :) These are definately some subjects that I must study more. Thank you for the message and looking forward to meeting you in person next week in Romania. :) God bless!
"O Adam, what have you done? Your sin was not only your own downfall; it was also the downfall of all of us who are your descendants." 2 Esdras 7 : 118
Nader Mansour, I find your sermons to be very inspiring. I agree, that we need to question people who tell us not to listen to other opinions, for Christ Jesus himself showed us quite the opposite. Christ example shows us to CONNECT TO ALL, including those who are shunned by the religious leaders. We need not fear that we will be partakers of false doctrines if we have a strong personal relationship with the Father through his Son. It is only when we desire to please friends, family and religious leaders more than God, that Bible Study with opposite understandings is a problem. Let us ask ourselves..... wasn't it the Catholic Church who had everything to gain by strictly imposing this oppressive rule of having no external fellowship? To PROVE ALL THINGS, can only happen when Gods words are being openly communicated. May the peace of God be with you Brother Nador Mansour, Sincerely, Regina
Are We Born A Sin? (Part 1) Before I answer that, let me clarify some points here first to get a picture of what the answer is. There’s a growing concern among OTG (One True God) community about what sin is. Is sin a choice, an action or state of being? The popular Bible verse to explained this is found in: 1 John 3:4 - whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. From the verse, most will conclude that sin is a choice because we choose to sin or not, resulting an action from our choice. Is that truly so? When I look at the last part of the verse - ‘for sins is the transgression of the law’- carefully with fervent prayer, it didn’t mention anything at all about involvement of choice to become a ‘sin’. The verse simply said what is sin and not how to become sin. If you are a ‘sin’, you are also a transgressor of the law. Let me use this illustration to explain it: Using the last part of 1 John 3:4 and change it as follow: : for ‘HUMAN’ is the ‘FLESH’ (sin) (transgression of the law) : does it mean you need to choose ‘FLESH’ to become ‘HUMAN’? NO, you are already a ‘FLESH’ because you are a ‘HUMAN’. If we say that sin is a CHOICE, then we could be saying that God is the one guilty or to be blame for giving us a CHOICE when He created all the angels, Adam and Eve. If we say sin is a CHOICE, then we can read 1 John 3:4 as follows: : whosoever committeth ‘CHOICE’ transgresseth also the law: for ‘CHOICE’ is the transgression of the law. Sound ridiculous right. Then we all better not make any choice at all, but isn’t that part of our daily life, making choices every day. So that verse of 1 John 3:4 is not saying anything about sin is a choice that you make to transgress the law than you become sin. The verse simply tell us that if we become a ‘sin’, we are also become transgressor of the law. Notice also in the first part of 1 John 3:4 says -‘transgresseth also the law’ - what does it mean? To me it mean if you become a ‘sin’, you not only become transgressor of the law but also transgressor of something else. Well in the Bible, we know sin is also: : Lawlessness (1 John 3:4 Revised Version) : Unbelief ( John 16:9 -11 TLB) : Rebellion against God (Deut 9:7, Joshua 1:18) : Unrighteousness (1 John 5:17) So, if you committeth sin, you also committing all the above beside transgressing the law. If we insist that sin is a choice, then we can blame God for putting sin in the menu for us to choose from. That’s ludicrous. God created heaven and all the inhabitants in it perfect, no defect. The angels can choose freely from the wonderful, righteous and perfect options that God have provided to them. There’s no unholy option for the angels to choose. But why sin can enter into the perfect creation of God. Certainly God did not create sin, because God himself have no sin in Him (Psalm 92:15, 1 John 1:5). Then how sin can still enter in God’s kingdom, how does it exist, where does it come from if God never create it? Nobody knows (only God knows), it’s a mystery and hence requiring a solution that is also a mystery (Colossians 1:27). We know the first being to become a ‘sin’ is Lucifer. How can he become a ‘sin’ if he is created perfect (Ezekiel 28:12-15) and there is no sin option for Lucifer to choose from until iniquity suddenly appear and was found in Lucifer? Let me give another illustration, if you were given an order to choose to stay inside, how then can you ever choose to be outside if it never be given to you as an option. The answer is, you have to create that option to stay outside yourself, then you can choose to stay outside. Meaning, you have to disobey the first order by creating a new order, then you can choose the new order that go against the first order. The moment you begin to create the new order, you already transgressing the first order before you even choose the new order. So, Lucifer certainly did not create sin either, but he let sin enter himself and eventually become a ‘sin’ himself from inside. What kind of sins did Lucifer let into himself? We can see in Ezekiel 28:17 and Isaiah 14:13-14, Proud and covetous, or other words selfishness or self-exaltation. All this is not created by God, but it suddenly appears in the menu for Lucifer to choose from. So does Lucifer choose to rebel against God to become a ‘sin’, or does Lucifer becomes a ‘sin’ first (through freedom of free will that God give to all His perfect creation) by letting his heart filled with self-exaltation and then choose to rebel against God to continue becoming a ‘sin’, eventually a sinner? The answer depends on what you believe and understand about sin in 1 John 3:4. If you insist that sin is a choice, then you might say that Lucifer choose to self-exalt himself and then rebel against God, then after that he become a ‘sin’ and thus continue to become a sinner. Well, frankly speaking it sound good and logical, but, it doesn’t go into deep understanding of the problem is like where he gets that choice from, and could also cause some to blame God for making the bad choice available for Lucifer to choose from which outside from the only holy choice that God provided. If we believe sin is a choice, then there’s no guarantee that there’ll be no more outbreak of sin when we enter new heaven and earth, because the problem is only dealt externally and not holistically. (continued in 2nd part)
Part 2 (continue from Part 1) God didn’t create proud, covetous, self-exaltation and selfishness for Lucifer to choose from. Lucifer is the one that create that option for himself by letting sin flow and growing inside his heart, then he can choose it. Same with Eve, before she makes the choice to transgress God instructions not to eat the forbidden fruit, she already sin in her heart and mind, meaning she become a ‘sin’ by letting selfishness control her mind, then she can choose the new option she has that resulting in transgression of the law. So did Adam, letting selfishness become a choice for him to choose from before he chooses to eat the forbidden fruit. (Patriarch and Prophets, Chp. 3) So, is sin a choice in 1 John 3:4, certainly No! Sin is transgression of the law, period. Sin is sin itself that does not need a choice to exist. Only when that sin exists in us, then we can choose it or not. So, are we born a ‘Sin’? My answer is YES. But how can it be? Look at these verse: Psalm 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. We are a ‘sin’ before we even born by inheritance from 1st Adam. We are born with sin option (other word ‘sinful nature’) existing in us and ready to be choose from when we get to the right age. The prove is this, we are all dying, either naturally or not, we are dying. Righteousness cannot die, only those that outside the realm of righteousness will die eventually. If you can die, meaning you not righteous and that’s equal to being a ‘sin’. Look at the following verse: Romans 5:12 - wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. That one man is none other than Adam. We inherited the effect of Adam sin (that is death) and the last part of the verse - ‘for that all have sinned’ - is a prove that we don’t need CHOICE to become ‘sinned’, we are already ‘sinned’. Have you ever wondered, is becoming a sinner a choice for us? Remember, God never create sin in the first place. How can you choose a house if there is no house to choose, how can you choose to eat if there is no food to eat, how can you choose to buy if you can’t even buy and how can you choose to sin if there is no sin to choose. In Romans 7:7, Paul said we know sin through the law, meaning that sin already existed in us (what we might call sinful nature) even before we choose it because sin exist together with the law that given unto us. Ellen White also said ‘By the law is the knowledge of sin’ (Manuscript 27.1899 and 7BC 951.3) meaning the knowledge of sin by the law is a prove that sin already existed in humanity after the fall and all have sinned even before we can choose it or not. The law of God helps us to see the sin in us, like a mirror. Some will say sinful nature is not a sin, when we choose to obey that sinful nature then it became a committed sin. Friends, remember this, God never create sin - whatever type of sin, be it nature of sin, sinful nature, fallen nature, choice of sin, small sin, big sin - as long it is outside of God’s realm of holiness, it is a ‘sin’ and there is no excuse for sin, be it small is still a sin, as stated by Ellen White (SC 30.1). Some also will say that making a statement of born a ‘sin’ is equivalent to the Roman Catholic Doctrine of Original Sin. Frankly speaking, I am an SDA since birth, and I never study on that doctrine except this week when I realised the dispute among One True God community concerning what is sin, I began to know a bit about that doctrine through all the commentary I read and my conclusion on that doctrine is that it promote baptism of infant, while my purpose of saying born a ‘sin’ is not to promote baptism for infant but to make us understand how deep the problem of sin is to better understand and appreciate the ultimate sacrifice that God made for us. Look at this statements from our pioneers regarding born a sinner: We were made sinners by birth; we are made righteous by the new birth (EJ Waggoner, PTUK 434.4, July 15, 1897) You and I were not made subject to sin, not made heirs to sin, by our own sinning; it was in us before we had time to sin (AT Jones, ARSH 659.8, October 16, 1900) Does that sound like they also agreed that we are born sinners? If yes, are you saying that our pioneers are Roman Catholic because their statement is similar to the one use by Roman Catholic Church in describing their Doctrine of Original Sin? If let say the Roman Catholic Church definition of Trinity is ‘3 heavenly trio’, are you saying Ellen G White is a Roman Catholic because of the same wording she used to describe her vision in her book? Friends, we are living in the last days, and we have been warned from Bible and Spirit of Prophecy that the devils will work harder than before as we approaching the closed of probation and Christ second coming. Satan uses the same techniques he used before to destroy God’s people, over and over again, repetitive and nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes 1:9). Lastly, remember this, when we limit our understanding about sin, we also limiting our understanding on God’s love to us. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8)
Praise God for another challenging and mind opener topics brother Nader. At first watch, i admit i a bit confuse. Then after carefully look at it again and again, and of course with prayer, then i can see the light in your presentation. I admit, we are all born sinner, by inheritance from the 1st Adam and by our personal transgression to the law of God. No matter what, we are all condemned because of sin. No human can proudly claim that they never sin. We all sin, and thats why our hope is Jesus Christ, by having faith in His righteousness.
DEar Nader, I commend your courage to come out and speak your mind on this subject....Understanding the subject of SIN is very important because only then we can understand why and how much we need the solution - Christ our dear Saviour! Keep up the good fight in FAITH
@Revelation1412org I thank God that you made a video directly addressing this issue and rebuked the legalistic will power based gospel. I would love to see a series explaining the difference between original sin and being made a sinner because of Adam. What I have noticed is that many claim that the pioneers believed that Christ had a sinful nature without giving any support for this claim and then they apply their own meaning to sinful nature. It would be great if you could do a series on these three things (original sin, sinner by Adam, pioneers on sinful nature). It saddens me that so many people who claim to accept the godhead truth still reject and ignore the "everlasting life" (John 3:16) of God and Christ. God bless.
That is not fair to say! You are maligning these brethren similarly to how Trinitarians call non-Trinitarians a "cult" and "say that we deny the divinity of Christ". If you say that these brethren are original sin teachers, you should also say that of Paul. For he clearly uses the term "sin" more expansively than you do. What the original sin doctrine teaches is that the human race is guilty of the sin that Adam committed. Original sin teachers use the term "sin" as narrowly as you do. A person has to be wilfully blinded not to see that Romans 5 is saying that we are born sinners (Rom 5:12&19) in some sense because of what Adam did. Anyone who believes that we are "justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Romans 3:28) should be able to realise that Paul in Romans 5 is showing us a parallel that we are saved by "the obedience" (Rom 5:19) of Jesus our "last Adam"(1 Cor 15:45) without our works. Paul provides additional information and shows us that we are justified by the last Adam, without our works, and we are also condemned because of the first Adam, without our works (Romans 5:16). Sadly many who claim to believe that Jesus is really the Son of God still reject His Holy Spirit and are instead choosing legalism. We need to forsake Priebeianism and be led by the Spirit. Gal 5:4 "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." Gal 5:18 "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."
I did not mention the pioneer statements that you quoted because that was not the focus. What I was focusing on was the criticism of the brethren. Thank you for those quotes and I will make sure I do some further research on what the pioneers believed about sinful nature. I see that we are both decided on our points of view but I will say this. No one can live righteously if they don't have righteous life. That is what Jesus came to give to humanity not lose by becoming human. Romans 8:10 "And if *Christ be in you*, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." Only God can keep the law of God. So the only way we can keep God's law is if Jesus is living in us doing the works (Gal 2:20) by His indwelling Spirit. That is the glorious mystery made known (Col 1:27); this is how Christ is come in the flesh (1 John 4:3) of everyone born again. To deny this is antichrist. That verse is not saying that Christ came in the carnal mind. To think that we can fulfil the law by our will power instead of surrendering our will to Christ is futile.
I know these two "Andrew" and "inyour4head" may have gotten carried away but we are all supposed to be God fearing people. They could have at least been given the benefit of the doubt by telling them to end the convo instead of making it so that all their further comments are hidden.
This really got to me starting at 9:17mins and gave me a very heavy heart, emphasis mine - "The words written in a book, that we have in our hands, that we put on the screen, the Bible that we have in our hands, that is NOTHING MORE THAN INK ON PAPER, you realise that. It cannot give life to anyone. It can tell you where life is, in the son.............." 1888 was all about THE WORD, its power to deliver from sin, its power to keep from sin, its power to heal the sick and make the blind see, its power to GIVE LIFE when He said Lazarus, come forth. It is the faithful word, It is the word that will not return void unto God. We need to realise the power of the indwelling word to keep from sin. We should be careful as to how we treat the Word lest we unwittingly push Jesus aside, the Word that was made flesh. His power, His very life, DWELLS IN HIS WORD. As you receive the word in faith, it will give you power to obey. Preach the word bro, be instant in season.....Speak the Word to the rock and don't smite it. "Christ abiding within, is the life of the soul. And we are to receive Christ THROUGH HIS WORD. It is the truth that sanctifies the soul. ........ {RH February 16, 1892, par. 18} We need to watch how our feet are tending. Praise God for his mercy endureth forever.
Jesus said a book can't give life: John 5:39 Ye search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Yes, it is sad that in this supposedly Christian world, the belief exists that words written on paper are what produces life. As somebody once said, "the word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and then, through 'theologians,' it became words again."
Brother Nader, the Lord revealed to me a perfect illustration of Sin separating yourself from God(Ish 59:2) and that illustration is The Tree of Life, When Adam sinned He no longer had access to the Tree of Life which brought forth death( dying process) He had Children(Babies) Cain and Abel after Sin which brought death and separation also to them. Some say how can Babies be separated from God they didn’t do anything, this is why and it really is Death( which sin brought) that Christ came to save us from
Amen to that. I got that from Creflo Dollar believe or not. Brother Nader I understand Christ's incarnation to be like how Adam was before he sinned. Righteous and relying on God as the 2nd Adam. It's how He was both human and divine. Any thoughts to this?
Amen to this message, every human being born in this world needs the savior even before they are conceive they do need the savior. And there are some that are saying that this message is error. An apple tree could only bear apples it cannot bear mangoes. And I said amen to this message again
2 Corinthians 4:1-10 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Here’s a good subject: the fruitage of Trinitarianism. Millions put to death for denial of transubstantiation, and the trinity. No Biblical Unitarian ever put a Trinitarian to death for this heretical belief.
WHAT IS SIN? “Now, I want to say to you before closing, that we have a wonderful friend in Jesus, who came to save His people from the transgression of the law. What is sin? The only definition of sin is that it is the transgression of the law. Then here is Jesus Christ, who comes right in and imparts His righteousness to us; we cannot overcome in our own strength, but by faith in Him. If you will believe on Jesus Christ, you will have Him today. You must believe that He is your Saviour now, and that He imputes to you His righteousness because He has died, and because He has been obedient unto every requirement of that transgressed law of God. If you do this, you will have a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Adam and Eve lost Eden because they transgressed that law, but you will lose heaven if you transgress it.” {1888 128.3}
I see the very same concerns and actions as these. Why are Ye so afraid of these teachings? Why are they so offensive? Acts 5:38-42 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them , they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
To those who are interested in having an overview of the issues which are currently being discussed in the OTG movement, here is an article from an outside observer which outlines these issues: www.restorationministry.com/news/an-observer-analyzes-the-issues Blessings!
I know these two "Andrew" and "inyour4head" may have gotten carried away but we are all supposed to be God fearing people. They could have at least been given the benefit of the doubt by telling them to end the convo instead of making it so that all their further comments are hidden. An important topic but which is infrequently shown from this perspective is bound to reveal differing views. Differing views can be expressed with respect.
I disagree. Death comes because we follow the carnal nature. To be carnally minded is to mind the things of the flesh, to put our mind on the things of the flesh more than anything else. This comes naturally to us because we are born with a sinful nature. And because we are born with a sinful nature that came from Adam, we don't have the desire to do anything different. God has to put hatred of sin in US.
Thank you Kashline Kash and Robert Burness fore exposing error and providing good evidence. It is sad to watch "brethren" manipulate audiences with emotional appeals without solid/contextualized quotes to support their doctrines. Nader I would urge you to take time to first define BIBLICALLY the meaning of a "Pharisee" and a "Legalist," before making false accusations. The way that Nader and Imad defines Pharisees and legalists it would cast Moses, Elijah, Jeremiah, Isaiah, James, Peter, Paul and even Christ into his profile. Sadly Nader and Imad use evangelical-strawman tactics and methods to build up their arguments. Nader and Imad's approach to this is no different than the evangelical Adventists (George Knight, Jack Sequiera, etc...). The difference with Nader and Imad is that they have more tact, they are less brash than the George Knight's and Sam Leonor's of Adventism, but when you compare their words with the Word of God it is sadly wanting, no different than George Knight/Sam Leonor. It frightens me to hear preachers say that they have found the cause of sin when Christ/the Spirit of Prophecy has clearly told us "Could excuse for it be found, or CAUSE be shown for its existence, it would cease to be sin. Our only definition of sin is that given in the Word of God; it is “the transgression of the law;” it is the outworking of a principle at war with the great law of love which is the foundation of the divine government." {GC88 492.2} If Nader and Imad are correct then there would be no need for repentace, because a cause and excuse for sin could be shown. If Nader and Imad are correct, then Christ had no need to come to this world in the likeness of sinful flesh to be tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin, to learn obedience through suffering and to redeem us from the curse of the law (please read: Rom 7:1-8:11;Heb 4:15;5:8; Gal 3:13). If Nader and Imad are correct all Christ had to do was to give us glorious bodies and this would have ended before Adam and Eve had to leave Garden of Eden. If Nader and Imad are correct then ultimately God is to blame for the problem of sin due to neglence. Beware, Jesus is about to sit on the cloud and He warns us..."Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." (Revelation 16:15)
Final Atonement has no idea what he is talking about. He does not under the position of Nader or Imad. He is coming from the conservative trinitarian SDA position, and bringing that into the OTG movement. You can't bring the trinitarian theology into the OTG movement. It is incongruent and does not work.
It's not 1 John 3:4 that's limited, it's those that limit the scope of the verse to sin being only a choice to break the law. Neither Paul nor Ellen White endorsed that limited view of sin.
bro. nader....how do we fit ALL of these statements into your understanding...I am HONESTLY trying to figure this out looking at BOTH sides on this issue.......: "The ONLY DEFINITION FOR SIN that we have in the Bible is that it is the transgression of the law. The law is far-reaching in its claims, and we must bring our hearts into harmony with it... IT CONDEMNS EVERY SIN, AND REQUIRES EVERY VIRTUE.” E.G. White, ST, March 3, 1890 par. 3. “There is no definition given in our world but that transgression is the transgression of the law; and therefore he finds out what sin is.” E.G. White, 1SAT 121. “Sin is the transgression of the law.” This is the ONLY definition of sin.” E.G. White, S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7, p951. (MS 27, 1899). “The ONLY definition of sin in the Word of God is given us in 1John 3:4. “Sin is the transgression of the law.” E.G. White, Our High Calling, p141. “And what is sin? The ONLY definition given in God’s word is, “Sin is the transgression of the law.”” E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, 24 Dec, 1887. “Fear God and keep his commandments for this is the WHOLE duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment with every secret thing, whether it be good or whether it be evil.” Ecc 12:13-14. “The law condemns ALL sin, and requires ALL virtue.” RH, Feb. 26, 1901. “The only definition for sin that we have IN THE BIBLE is that it is the transgression of the law... IT CONDEMNS EVERY SIN, AND REQUIRES EVERY VIRTUE.” E.G. White, ST, March 3, 1890 par. 3. “God requires perfection of His children. His law is a transcript of His own character, and it is the standard of ALL character. THIS INFINITE STANDARD is presented to all that there may be no mistake in regard to the kind of people whom God will have to compose His kingdom.” E.G. White, Christ Object Lessons, p315. Mount of Blessing, p54. "The ONLY DEFINITION FOR SIN that we have in the Bible is that it is the transgression of the law. The law is far-reaching in its claims, and we must bring our hearts into harmony with it... IT CONDEMNS EVERY SIN, AND REQUIRES EVERY VIRTUE.” E.G. White, ST, March 3, 1890 par. 3. "Sin is the transgression of the law." This is the only definition of sin. Without the law there can be no transgression. "By the law is the knowledge of sin." The standard of righteousness is exceeding broad, prohibiting EVERY evil thing (MS 27, 1899) 7BC 951. “It is not in the power of Satan to force anyone to sin. SIN IS THE SINNER’S INDIVIDUAL ACT. BEFORE SIN EXISTS IN THE HEART, THE CONSENT OF THE WILL MUST BE GIVEN, and as soon as it is given, sin is triumphant, and hell rejoices. But there is no excuse for sin, either great or little.” E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, 12-18-93. “Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but BEFORE THE LIGHT COMES, THERE IS NO SIN, for there is no light for them to reject.” E.G. White, Testimonies for the Church Volume One, p116.
They're all saying the same thing, quoting the verse not explaining the verse. The meaning of the verse is in the if one looks it up. Sin is a state is lawlessness that leads to breaking the law. Sin is a problem that we inherit, not one that we contract after we make a poor choice. If sin is only a choice to break the law then which sin is it that we inherit?
MrPioneerlight2011 the law as we know it ‘the ten commandments ‘ is a codified demonstration of the character of GOD which is righteousness. The spirit of righteousness, lawfulness, life and truth.
Noeleen Hawkins By the way Nadar says that Law is ‘Negative ‘ even when the bible says the commandments are Holy and just and they are not grievous.. Nadar and his mate David Clayton are beginning to place himself in a place of Self sufficiency... Mercy!
Nader, remember Christ inherited his mothers nature, by the power of his Father's spirit he was able to reject doing what our human nature's urge us to do. I know where you are coming from, mostly, but it will be misconstrued by others who do not have understanding.
What state of life was Adam in prior to him sinning? What state of life were the angels in prior to their sinning? "Our condition dictates our behaviour?" Does it really? Then Adam whose nature / condition was sinless, holy and perfect should not have sinned. His condition should have dictated his behaviour right? And the angels with sinless natures / conditions, holy and perfect should not have sinned. So what is sin or the nature of sin before the angels fell and before Adam fell?
Adam and angels were holy and righteous. When we come into this world we're not like angels. We're in a very different situation to them so the comparison doesn't hold. As a result of Adams fall our condition is sin and death. That's what Adam bequeathed to us.
Only the SPIRIT of the LIVING GOD would have you glorify and further help me magnify JEHOVAH.. Agreed and AMEN..🕊💕🍃 The SPIRIT of TRUTH guides us into ALL TRUTH..💃🎊🤸♂🎉👯 There is a revival going in the Bahamas, in particular about what you are sharing but not by the SDA church..I rejoice that I can truly say that there is remnant and JEHOVAH has lead me to be apart of this fellowship because I was very down trodden that our church was not aware about what you are revealing. I knew deep down inside just as the pioneers of faith believe JEHOVAH revealed to me himself and through the SPIRIT of prophesy that there is only FATHER and Son.🔥👑🌈 Please brethren visit the website of KEVINLAEWING on youtube in particular starting with the teaching on Dreams that you dream also his kevinlaewingblogspot. . 🔥👑🌈
Dear Nadar and all those getting excited after watching this video. Our sinful nature remains with us until that day when we shall be translated at the coming of Christ. Our sinful nature is our propensity to sin from within us. This is what we have inherited from Adam (the sinful nature-which is the propensity to sin). Even after accepting Christ, the sinful nature remains in us. What Adam gave to us will only be reversed after we have been translated from mortality to immortality. How about Christ in me? One may ask. Christ in me gives me the power to overcome all hereditary tendencies. These hereditary tendencies will only be quenched when we acquire our immortal bodies. Like Adam1984 already stated, dont confuse sinful nature to sins that we commit from time time. While we can overcome sin and all hereditary tendencies, the sinful nature will be with us for as long life continues here... Therefore'.... It is not true that what we inherited from Adam which you call 'sin' goes away when we accept Christ. Christ simply comes to help us over come. Please pull out this video from the public domain. Failure to do that will place you in a place where the blood of those people you are misleading will be put on your head brother Nadar. Your Brother in Christ
Kashline Kash - Would you mind sharing with us the bible passages which support the conclusions you have presented in your post above. Namely: 1) Our sinful nature remains with us until that day when we shall be translated at the coming of Christ. 2) Even after accepting Christ, the sinful nature remains in us. 3) What Adam gave to us will only be reversed after we have been translated from mortality to immortality. 4) Christ in me gives me ....These hereditary tendencies will only be quenched when we acquire our immortal bodies. 5) While we can overcome sin and all hereditary tendencies, the sinful nature will be with us for as long life continues here You also stated "Christ simply comes to help us over come." Overcome what? Thank you!
Only True God if you can give me a verse or evidence that shows that our fallen nature the one which we inherited from Adam is transformed into a pure and holy state after we accept Christ then I will answer your questions
Kashline Kash - Are you dodging my question? I made no assertions, such as "our fallen nature the one which we inherited from Adam is transformed into a pure and holy state after we accept Christ". You however, made several assertions in your post, without offering any scriptural evidence. I'm simply asking you for the evidence which supports the points you have made. No need to get defensive. You have laid out a position, I would think they are backed up be scripture. I'm simply asking for those scriptures to evaluate what you have said. Thanks!
Romans 7 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Verse 25 tells us that because of Christ, while my flesh remains sinful, the mind under the subjection of Christ can still serve God.
1 Corinthians 15:52-55 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
🔓 Unlock the Bible's Hidden Treasures! Study with me at www.nadermansour.com/academy. Join now & start your enriching journey today! 📖🌟 Deeper Bible study for serious students.
What a powerful sermon Nader. We need more of these sermons. God bless you and Glory to God.
God bless you dear brother! I agree with you. JR
I just watched Bill Pinto message in response to this one and it wasn’t much scripture to prove Nader wrong mostly quotes from the pioneers and transcript of what he said but I see the Bible clearly says “by one man sin entered into the world and death which was passed upon all men” what is death? The wages of sin, in Genesis 5 Seth was begotten(born) into Adam image and likeness which is a nature independent of God(selfishness and death) EGW says in WB sept 9, 1902 par 3 “All sin is selfishness” which we all inherited so understand when it says in Rom 5:19 “by one man disobedience many were made sinners”
Exactly. It's pretty plain for all to see.
Revelation1412org on another message Bill Pinto did “was Jesus born born again” he misunderstood what you and Imad said(having a advantage), Sister White always mention about partaking of the Divine nature which is the grace,power the advantage he offers to us,divinity and humanity and also I want to mention something in reference to the ones who quote Ellen White(GC- why sin was permitted)about the only definition for sin is transgression of the law well they always stop there and don’t finish what else she says “it is the out working of a principle at War with the great law of love” Rom 8:7 says that’s the carnal mind which is enmity(at war) against God
Preach it brother!
Revelation1412org thank you for responding it meant a lot to me, the Lord has blessed me thru you and for you to respond means a lot because I’m encouraging and be a blessing to someone as well
Amen!
Liberating Truth !!!! I'm so grateful God has not taken the risk to make my salvation depend of my doing . Eternally thankful . To God be the glory. Great message
I'm so glad that God has solved the sin problem. Holiness is not rapture, but an entire surrender of the will to God. I have listened to every talk by Nader that I can find. And this one really so openly clarifies the truth in the Bible. Thank you
That was one of the most challenging presentation I have ever heard... right there with the one I stumbled upon on youtube a few years ago, in which you were presenting the truth about God and His Son. :)
These are definately some subjects that I must study more.
Thank you for the message and looking forward to meeting you in person next week in Romania. :)
God bless!
I am a truth seeker.
I am very impressed by truth about the sin.
Me too
Wow
What about faith without works is dead ? Just asking
That's why God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.
I'm totally humbled
"O Adam, what have you done? Your sin was not only your own downfall; it was also the downfall of all of us who are your descendants." 2 Esdras 7 : 118
Nader Mansour, I find your sermons to be very inspiring. I agree, that we need to question people who tell us not to listen to other opinions, for Christ Jesus himself showed us quite the opposite. Christ example shows us to CONNECT TO ALL, including those who are shunned by the religious leaders. We need not fear that we will be partakers of false doctrines if we have a strong personal relationship with the Father through his Son. It is only when we desire to please friends, family and religious leaders more than God, that Bible Study with opposite understandings is a problem. Let us ask ourselves..... wasn't it the Catholic Church who had everything to gain by strictly imposing this oppressive rule of having no external fellowship? To PROVE ALL THINGS, can only happen when Gods words are being openly communicated. May the peace of God be with you Brother Nador Mansour, Sincerely, Regina
Amen. Thank you and praise God.
Amen brother Nader I am really blessed 🙏
Amen brother. Needed message indeed.
Nader embodies the right mindset towards law and righteousness. It is rare to see adventists who understand this.
Glad you're blessed by the study!
Are We Born A Sin? (Part 1)
Before I answer that, let me clarify some points here first to get a picture of what the answer is. There’s a growing concern among OTG (One True God) community about what sin is. Is sin a choice, an action or state of being? The popular Bible verse to explained this is found in:
1 John 3:4 - whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression
of the law.
From the verse, most will conclude that sin is a choice because we choose to sin or not, resulting an action from our choice. Is that truly so? When I look at the last part of the verse - ‘for sins is the transgression of the law’- carefully with fervent prayer, it didn’t mention anything at all about involvement of choice to become a ‘sin’. The verse simply said what is sin and not how to become sin. If you are a ‘sin’, you are also a transgressor of the law. Let me use this illustration to explain it:
Using the last part of 1 John 3:4 and change it as follow:
: for ‘HUMAN’ is the ‘FLESH’
(sin) (transgression of the law)
: does it mean you need to choose ‘FLESH’ to become ‘HUMAN’? NO, you are already
a ‘FLESH’ because you are a ‘HUMAN’.
If we say that sin is a CHOICE, then we could be saying that God is the one guilty or to be blame for giving us a CHOICE when He created all the angels, Adam and Eve. If we say sin is a CHOICE, then we can read 1 John 3:4 as follows:
: whosoever committeth ‘CHOICE’ transgresseth also the law: for ‘CHOICE’ is the
transgression of the law.
Sound ridiculous right. Then we all better not make any choice at all, but isn’t that part of our daily life, making choices every day. So that verse of 1 John 3:4 is not saying anything about sin is a choice that you make to transgress the law than you become sin. The verse simply tell us that if we become a ‘sin’, we are also become transgressor of the law.
Notice also in the first part of 1 John 3:4 says -‘transgresseth also the law’ - what does it mean? To me it mean if you become a ‘sin’, you not only become transgressor of the law but also transgressor of something else. Well in the Bible, we know sin is also:
: Lawlessness (1 John 3:4 Revised Version)
: Unbelief ( John 16:9 -11 TLB)
: Rebellion against God (Deut 9:7, Joshua 1:18)
: Unrighteousness (1 John 5:17)
So, if you committeth sin, you also committing all the above beside transgressing the law. If we insist that sin is a choice, then we can blame God for putting sin in the menu for us to choose from. That’s ludicrous. God created heaven and all the inhabitants in it perfect, no defect. The angels can choose freely from the wonderful, righteous and perfect options that God have provided to them. There’s no unholy option for the angels to choose.
But why sin can enter into the perfect creation of God. Certainly God did not create sin, because God himself have no sin in Him (Psalm 92:15, 1 John 1:5). Then how sin can still enter in God’s kingdom, how does it exist, where does it come from if God never create it? Nobody knows (only God knows), it’s a mystery and hence requiring a solution that is also a mystery (Colossians 1:27).
We know the first being to become a ‘sin’ is Lucifer. How can he become a ‘sin’ if he is created perfect (Ezekiel 28:12-15) and there is no sin option for Lucifer to choose from until iniquity suddenly appear and was found in Lucifer? Let me give another illustration, if you were given an order to choose to stay inside, how then can you ever choose to be outside if it never be given to you as an option. The answer is, you have to create that option to stay outside yourself, then you can choose to stay outside. Meaning, you have to disobey the first order by creating a new order, then you can choose the new order that go against the first order. The moment you begin to create the new order, you already transgressing the first order before you even choose the new order.
So, Lucifer certainly did not create sin either, but he let sin enter himself and eventually become a ‘sin’ himself from inside. What kind of sins did Lucifer let into himself? We can see in Ezekiel 28:17 and Isaiah 14:13-14, Proud and covetous, or other words selfishness or self-exaltation. All this is not created by God, but it suddenly appears in the menu for Lucifer to choose from. So does Lucifer choose
to rebel against God to become a ‘sin’, or does Lucifer becomes a ‘sin’ first (through freedom of free will that God give to all His perfect creation) by letting his heart filled with self-exaltation and then choose to rebel against God to continue becoming a ‘sin’, eventually a sinner?
The answer depends on what you believe and understand about sin in 1 John 3:4. If you insist that sin is a choice, then you might say that Lucifer choose to self-exalt himself and then rebel against God, then after that he become a ‘sin’ and thus continue to become a sinner. Well, frankly speaking it sound good and logical, but, it doesn’t go into deep understanding of the problem is like where he gets that choice from, and could also cause some to blame God for making the bad choice available for Lucifer to choose from which outside from the only holy choice that God provided. If we believe sin is a choice, then there’s no guarantee that there’ll be no more outbreak of sin when we enter new heaven and earth, because the problem is only dealt externally and not holistically.
(continued in 2nd part)
Part 2 (continue from Part 1)
God didn’t create proud, covetous, self-exaltation and selfishness for Lucifer to choose from. Lucifer is the one that create that option for himself by letting sin flow and growing inside his heart, then he can choose it. Same with Eve, before she makes the choice to transgress God instructions not to eat the forbidden fruit, she already sin in her heart and mind, meaning she become a ‘sin’ by letting selfishness control her mind, then she can choose the new option she has that resulting in transgression of the law. So did Adam, letting selfishness become a choice for him to choose from before he chooses to eat the forbidden fruit. (Patriarch and Prophets, Chp. 3)
So, is sin a choice in 1 John 3:4, certainly No! Sin is transgression of the law, period. Sin is sin itself that does not need a choice to exist. Only when that sin exists in us, then we can choose it or not.
So, are we born a ‘Sin’?
My answer is YES. But how can it be? Look at these verse:
Psalm 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
We are a ‘sin’ before we even born by inheritance from 1st Adam. We are born with sin option (other word ‘sinful nature’) existing in us and ready to be choose from when we get to the right age. The prove is this, we are all dying, either naturally or not, we are dying. Righteousness cannot die, only those that outside the realm of righteousness will die eventually. If you can die, meaning you not righteous and that’s equal to being a ‘sin’. Look at the following verse:
Romans 5:12 - wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so
death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.
That one man is none other than Adam. We inherited the effect of Adam sin (that is death) and the last part of the verse - ‘for that all have sinned’ - is a prove that we don’t need CHOICE to become ‘sinned’, we are already ‘sinned’. Have you ever wondered, is becoming a sinner a choice for us? Remember, God never create sin in the first place. How can you choose a house if there is no house to choose, how can you choose to eat if there is no food to eat, how can you choose to buy if you can’t even buy and how can you choose to sin if there is no sin to choose. In Romans 7:7, Paul said we know sin through the law, meaning that sin already existed in us (what we might call sinful nature) even before we choose it because sin exist together with the law that given unto us. Ellen White also said ‘By the law is the knowledge of sin’ (Manuscript 27.1899 and 7BC 951.3) meaning the knowledge of sin by the law is a prove that sin already existed in humanity after the fall and all have sinned even before we can choose it or not. The law of God helps us to see the sin in us, like a mirror.
Some will say sinful nature is not a sin, when we choose to obey that sinful nature then it became a committed sin. Friends, remember this, God never create sin - whatever type of sin, be it nature of sin, sinful nature, fallen nature, choice of sin, small sin, big sin - as long it is outside of God’s realm of holiness, it is a ‘sin’ and there is no excuse for sin, be it small is still a sin, as stated by Ellen White (SC 30.1).
Some also will say that making a statement of born a ‘sin’ is equivalent to the Roman Catholic Doctrine of Original Sin. Frankly speaking, I am an SDA since birth, and I never study on that doctrine except this week when I realised the dispute among One True God community concerning what is sin, I began to know a bit about that doctrine through all the commentary I read and my conclusion on that doctrine is that it promote baptism of infant, while my purpose of saying born a ‘sin’ is not to promote baptism for infant but to make us understand how deep the problem of sin is to better understand and appreciate the ultimate sacrifice that God made for us. Look at this statements from our pioneers regarding born a sinner:
We were made sinners by birth; we are made righteous by the new birth (EJ Waggoner, PTUK 434.4, July 15, 1897)
You and I were not made subject to sin, not made heirs to sin, by our own sinning; it was in us before we had time to sin (AT Jones, ARSH 659.8, October 16, 1900)
Does that sound like they also agreed that we are born sinners? If yes, are you saying that our pioneers are Roman Catholic because their statement is similar to the one use by Roman Catholic Church in describing their Doctrine of Original Sin? If let say the Roman Catholic Church definition of Trinity is ‘3 heavenly trio’, are you saying Ellen G White is a Roman Catholic because of the same wording she used to describe her vision in her book?
Friends, we are living in the last days, and we have been warned from Bible and Spirit of Prophecy that the devils will work harder than before as we approaching the closed of probation and Christ second coming. Satan uses the same techniques he used before to destroy God’s people, over and over again, repetitive and nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes 1:9).
Lastly, remember this, when we limit our understanding about sin, we also limiting our understanding on God’s love to us. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8)
Thank you for this presentation
Praise God for another challenging and mind opener topics brother Nader. At first watch, i admit i a bit confuse. Then after carefully look at it again and again, and of course with prayer, then i can see the light in your presentation.
I admit, we are all born sinner, by inheritance from the 1st Adam and by our personal transgression to the law of God. No matter what, we are all condemned because of sin. No human can proudly claim that they never sin. We all sin, and thats why our hope is Jesus Christ, by having faith in His righteousness.
Very good.
Blessings from India.
Mind blowing!
DEar Nader, I commend your courage to come out and speak your mind on this subject....Understanding the subject of SIN is very important because only then we can understand why and how much we need the solution - Christ our dear Saviour! Keep up the good fight in FAITH
Amen! 👍
Love this guy.
@Revelation1412org
I thank God that you made a video directly addressing this issue and rebuked the legalistic will power based gospel. I would love to see a series explaining the difference between original sin and being made a sinner because of Adam. What I have noticed is that many claim that the pioneers believed that Christ had a sinful nature without giving any support for this claim and then they apply their own meaning to sinful nature. It would be great if you could do a series on these three things (original sin, sinner by Adam, pioneers on sinful nature). It saddens me that so many people who claim to accept the godhead truth still reject and ignore the "everlasting life" (John 3:16) of God and Christ.
God bless.
That is not fair to say! You are maligning these brethren similarly to how Trinitarians call non-Trinitarians a "cult" and "say that we deny the divinity of Christ". If you say that these brethren are original sin teachers, you should also say that of Paul. For he clearly uses the term "sin" more expansively than you do.
What the original sin doctrine teaches is that the human race is guilty of the sin that Adam committed. Original sin teachers use the term "sin" as narrowly as you do. A person has to be wilfully blinded not to see that Romans 5 is saying that we are born sinners (Rom 5:12&19) in some sense because of what Adam did. Anyone who believes that we are "justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Romans 3:28) should be able to realise that Paul in Romans 5 is showing us a parallel that we are saved by "the obedience" (Rom 5:19) of Jesus our "last Adam"(1 Cor 15:45) without our works. Paul provides additional information and shows us that we are justified by the last Adam, without our works, and we are also condemned because of the first Adam, without our works (Romans 5:16).
Sadly many who claim to believe that Jesus is really the Son of God still reject His Holy Spirit and are instead choosing legalism. We need to forsake Priebeianism and be led by the Spirit.
Gal 5:4 "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
Gal 5:18 "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."
I did not mention the pioneer statements that you quoted because that was not the focus. What I was focusing on was the criticism of the brethren. Thank you for those quotes and I will make sure I do some further research on what the pioneers believed about sinful nature.
I see that we are both decided on our points of view but I will say this. No one can live righteously if they don't have righteous life. That is what Jesus came to give to humanity not lose by becoming human.
Romans 8:10 "And if *Christ be in you*, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness."
Only God can keep the law of God. So the only way we can keep God's law is if Jesus is living in us doing the works (Gal 2:20) by His indwelling Spirit. That is the glorious mystery made known (Col 1:27); this is how Christ is come in the flesh (1 John 4:3) of everyone born again. To deny this is antichrist. That verse is not saying that Christ came in the carnal mind. To think that we can fulfil the law by our will power instead of surrendering our will to Christ is futile.
I know these two "Andrew" and "inyour4head" may have gotten carried away but we are all supposed to be God fearing people. They could have at least been given the benefit of the doubt by telling them to end the convo instead of making it so that all their further comments are hidden.
praise God.amen.
This really got to me starting at 9:17mins and gave me a very heavy heart, emphasis mine - "The words written in a book, that we have in our hands, that we put on the screen, the Bible that we have in our hands, that is NOTHING MORE THAN INK ON PAPER, you realise that. It cannot give life to anyone. It can tell you where life is, in the son.............." 1888 was all about THE WORD, its power to deliver from sin, its power to keep from sin, its power to heal the sick and make the blind see, its power to GIVE LIFE when He said Lazarus, come forth. It is the faithful word, It is the word that will not return void unto God. We need to realise the power of the indwelling word to keep from sin. We should be careful as to how we treat the Word lest we unwittingly push Jesus aside, the Word that was made flesh. His power, His very life, DWELLS IN HIS WORD. As you receive the word in faith, it will give you power to obey. Preach the word bro, be instant in season.....Speak the Word to the rock and don't smite it. "Christ abiding within, is the life of the soul. And we are to receive Christ THROUGH HIS WORD. It is the truth that sanctifies the soul. ........ {RH February 16, 1892, par. 18} We need to watch how our feet are tending. Praise God for his mercy endureth forever.
Jesus said a book can't give life:
John 5:39 Ye search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Yes, it is sad that in this supposedly Christian world, the belief exists that words written on paper are what produces life. As somebody once said, "the word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and then, through 'theologians,' it became words again."
Brother Nader, the Lord revealed to me a perfect illustration of Sin separating yourself from God(Ish 59:2) and that illustration is The Tree of Life, When Adam sinned He no longer had access to the Tree of Life which brought forth death( dying process) He had Children(Babies) Cain and Abel after Sin which brought death and separation also to them. Some say how can Babies be separated from God they didn’t do anything, this is why and it really is Death( which sin brought) that Christ came to save us from
Good illustration. Thank you
Amen to that. I got that from Creflo Dollar believe or not. Brother Nader I understand Christ's incarnation to be like how Adam was before he sinned. Righteous and relying on God as the 2nd Adam. It's how He was both human and divine. Any thoughts to this?
how lovely
Amen to this message, every human being born in this world needs the savior even before they are conceive they do need the savior. And there are some that are saying that this message is error. An apple tree could only bear apples it cannot bear mangoes. And I said amen to this message again
2 Corinthians 4:1-10
Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Revelation1412 are you now undermining the meaning of the name of your ministry?
Kashline Kash Jesus IN YOU will make you do your best to keep the commandments the best way you can never do it by yourself.
Please tell me what is the sin not unto death?
Here’s a good subject: the fruitage of Trinitarianism. Millions put to death for denial of transubstantiation, and the trinity. No Biblical Unitarian ever put a Trinitarian to death for this heretical belief.
No one had said yet what the sin is that is not unto death!
Please Nader, tell us what the sin is that is not unto death
WHAT IS SIN?
“Now, I want to say to you before closing, that we have a wonderful friend in Jesus, who came to save His people from the transgression of the law. What is sin? The only definition of sin is that it is the transgression of the law. Then here is Jesus Christ, who comes right in and imparts His righteousness to us; we cannot overcome in our own strength, but by faith in Him. If you will believe on Jesus Christ, you will have Him today. You must believe that He is your Saviour now, and that He imputes to you His righteousness because He has died, and because He has been obedient unto every requirement of that transgressed law of God. If you do this, you will have a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Adam and Eve lost Eden because they transgressed that law, but you will lose heaven if you transgress it.” {1888 128.3}
I see the very same concerns and actions as these. Why are Ye so afraid of these teachings? Why are they so offensive?
Acts 5:38-42
And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them , they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
I am so sorry to see this subject has became a major area of debate.
But what is the sin not unto death?
Amen
Nader, please tell us what the sin I'd that is not unto death!!
To those who are interested in having an overview of the issues which are currently being discussed in the OTG movement, here is an article from an outside observer which outlines these issues:
www.restorationministry.com/news/an-observer-analyzes-the-issues
Blessings!
I know these two "Andrew" and "inyour4head" may have gotten carried away but we are all supposed to be God fearing people. They could have at least been given the benefit of the doubt by telling them to end the convo instead of making it so that all their further comments are hidden.
An important topic but which is infrequently shown from this perspective is bound to reveal differing views. Differing views can be expressed with respect.
I disagree.
Death comes because we follow the carnal nature. To be carnally minded is to mind the things of the flesh, to put our mind on the things of the flesh more than anything else. This comes naturally to us because we are born with a sinful nature. And because we are born with a sinful nature that came from Adam, we don't have the desire to do anything different. God has to put hatred of sin in US.
Enock ?
Thank you Kashline Kash and Robert Burness fore exposing error and providing good evidence. It is sad to watch "brethren" manipulate audiences with emotional appeals without solid/contextualized quotes to support their doctrines. Nader I would urge you to take time to first define BIBLICALLY the meaning of a "Pharisee" and a "Legalist," before making false accusations. The way that Nader and Imad defines Pharisees and legalists it would cast Moses, Elijah, Jeremiah, Isaiah, James, Peter, Paul and even Christ into his profile. Sadly Nader and Imad use evangelical-strawman tactics and methods to build up their arguments. Nader and Imad's approach to this is no different than the evangelical Adventists (George Knight, Jack Sequiera, etc...). The difference with Nader and Imad is that they have more tact, they are less brash than the George Knight's and Sam Leonor's of Adventism, but when you compare their words with the Word of God it is sadly wanting, no different than George Knight/Sam Leonor.
It frightens me to hear preachers say that they have found the cause of sin when Christ/the Spirit of Prophecy has clearly told us "Could excuse for it be found, or CAUSE be shown for its existence, it would cease to be sin. Our only definition of sin is that given in the Word of God; it is “the transgression of the law;” it is the outworking of a principle at war with the great law of love which is the foundation of the divine government." {GC88 492.2} If Nader and Imad are correct then there would be no need for repentace, because a cause and excuse for sin could be shown. If Nader and Imad are correct, then Christ had no need to come to this world in the likeness of sinful flesh to be tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin, to learn obedience through suffering and to redeem us from the curse of the law (please read: Rom 7:1-8:11;Heb 4:15;5:8; Gal 3:13). If Nader and Imad are correct all Christ had to do was to give us glorious bodies and this would have ended before Adam and Eve had to leave Garden of Eden. If Nader and Imad are correct then ultimately God is to blame for the problem of sin due to neglence. Beware, Jesus is about to sit on the cloud and He warns us..."Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." (Revelation 16:15)
Final Atonement All I can say after reading your comments is Amen and Amen. God bless you... The labourers and few indeed!
Final Atonement has no idea what he is talking about. He does not under the position of Nader or Imad. He is coming from the conservative trinitarian SDA position, and bringing that into the OTG movement. You can't bring the trinitarian theology into the OTG movement. It is incongruent and does not work.
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1 John 3:4.....a "limited view".....what?! Are you saying the Apostle Paul had a limited view of sin? And that EGW had a limited view of sin????
It's not 1 John 3:4 that's limited, it's those that limit the scope of the verse to sin being only a choice to break the law. Neither Paul nor Ellen White endorsed that limited view of sin.
bro. nader....how do we fit ALL of these statements into your understanding...I am HONESTLY trying to figure this out looking at BOTH sides on this issue.......: "The ONLY DEFINITION FOR SIN that we have in the Bible is that it is the transgression of the law. The law is far-reaching in its claims, and we must bring our hearts into harmony with it... IT CONDEMNS EVERY SIN, AND REQUIRES EVERY VIRTUE.” E.G. White, ST, March 3, 1890 par. 3.
“There is no definition given in our world but that transgression is the transgression of the law; and therefore he finds out what sin is.” E.G. White, 1SAT 121.
“Sin is the transgression of the law.” This is the ONLY definition of sin.” E.G. White, S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7, p951. (MS 27, 1899).
“The ONLY definition of sin in the Word of God is given us in 1John 3:4. “Sin is the transgression of the law.” E.G. White, Our High Calling, p141.
“And what is sin? The ONLY definition given in God’s word is, “Sin is the transgression of the law.”” E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, 24 Dec, 1887.
“Fear God and keep his commandments for this is the WHOLE duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment with every secret thing, whether it be good or whether it be evil.” Ecc 12:13-14.
“The law condemns ALL sin, and requires ALL virtue.” RH, Feb. 26, 1901.
“The only definition for sin that we have IN THE BIBLE is that it is the transgression of the law... IT CONDEMNS EVERY SIN, AND REQUIRES EVERY VIRTUE.” E.G. White, ST, March 3, 1890 par. 3.
“God requires perfection of His children. His law is a transcript of His own character, and it is the standard of ALL character. THIS INFINITE STANDARD is presented to all that there may be no mistake in regard to the kind of people whom God will have to compose His kingdom.” E.G. White, Christ Object Lessons, p315. Mount of Blessing, p54.
"The ONLY DEFINITION FOR SIN that we have in the Bible is that it is the transgression of the law. The law is far-reaching in its claims, and we must bring our hearts into harmony with it... IT CONDEMNS EVERY SIN, AND REQUIRES EVERY VIRTUE.” E.G. White, ST, March 3, 1890 par. 3.
"Sin is the transgression of the law." This is the only definition of sin. Without the law there can be no transgression. "By the law is the knowledge of sin." The standard of righteousness is exceeding broad, prohibiting EVERY evil thing (MS 27, 1899) 7BC 951.
“It is not in the power of Satan to force anyone to sin. SIN IS THE SINNER’S INDIVIDUAL ACT. BEFORE SIN EXISTS IN THE HEART, THE CONSENT OF THE WILL MUST BE GIVEN, and as soon as it is given, sin is triumphant, and hell rejoices. But there is no excuse for sin, either great or little.” E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, 12-18-93.
“Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but BEFORE THE LIGHT COMES, THERE IS NO SIN, for there is no light for them to reject.” E.G. White, Testimonies for the Church Volume One, p116.
They're all saying the same thing, quoting the verse not explaining the verse. The meaning of the verse is in the if one looks it up. Sin is a state is lawlessness that leads to breaking the law.
Sin is a problem that we inherit, not one that we contract after we make a poor choice.
If sin is only a choice to break the law then which sin is it that we inherit?
MrPioneerlight2011 the law as we know it ‘the ten commandments ‘ is a codified demonstration of the character of GOD which is righteousness. The spirit of righteousness, lawfulness, life and truth.
Noeleen Hawkins By the way Nadar says that Law is ‘Negative ‘ even when the bible says the commandments are Holy and just and they are not grievous.. Nadar and his mate David Clayton are beginning to place himself in a place of Self sufficiency...
Mercy!
If we inherit it, then it is genetic, period.
Nader, remember Christ inherited his mothers nature, by the power of his Father's spirit he was able to reject doing what our human nature's urge us to do. I know where you are coming from, mostly, but it will be misconstrued by others who do not have understanding.
Indeed, Christ was also born of the spirit.
Jesus himself was often misunderstood and his words misconstrued. I expect nothing better than my Master 😊
What state of life was Adam in prior to him sinning? What state of life were the angels in prior to their sinning? "Our condition dictates our behaviour?" Does it really? Then Adam whose nature / condition was sinless, holy and perfect should not have sinned. His condition should have dictated his behaviour right? And the angels with sinless natures / conditions, holy and perfect should not have sinned. So what is sin or the nature of sin before the angels fell and before Adam fell?
Adam and angels were holy and righteous. When we come into this world we're not like angels. We're in a very different situation to them so the comparison doesn't hold.
As a result of Adams fall our condition is sin and death. That's what Adam bequeathed to us.
robert burness sin is rebellion against righteousness, both rebellion and righteousness are described as a mystery.
Here you have struggled to Revelation1412. I see the echoes of David Clayton in your message
Only the SPIRIT of the LIVING GOD would have you glorify and further help me magnify JEHOVAH..
Agreed and AMEN..🕊💕🍃 The SPIRIT of TRUTH guides us into ALL TRUTH..💃🎊🤸♂🎉👯 There is a revival going in the Bahamas, in particular about what you are sharing but not by the SDA church..I rejoice that I can truly say that there is remnant and JEHOVAH has lead me to be apart of this fellowship because I was very down trodden that our church was not aware about what you are revealing.
I knew deep down inside just as the pioneers of faith believe JEHOVAH revealed to me himself and through the SPIRIT of prophesy that there is only FATHER and Son.🔥👑🌈
Please brethren visit the website of KEVINLAEWING on youtube in particular starting with the teaching on Dreams that you dream also his kevinlaewingblogspot. . 🔥👑🌈
Dear Nadar and all those getting excited after watching this video. Our sinful nature remains with us until that day when we shall be translated at the coming of Christ. Our sinful nature is our propensity to sin from within us. This is what we have inherited from Adam (the sinful nature-which is the propensity to sin). Even after accepting Christ, the sinful nature remains in us. What Adam gave to us will only be reversed after we have been translated from mortality to immortality.
How about Christ in me? One may ask. Christ in me gives me the power to overcome all hereditary tendencies. These hereditary tendencies will only be quenched when we acquire our immortal bodies.
Like Adam1984 already stated, dont confuse sinful nature to sins that we commit from time time. While we can overcome sin and all hereditary tendencies, the sinful nature will be with us for as long life continues here...
Therefore'....
It is not true that what we inherited from Adam which you call 'sin' goes away when we accept Christ. Christ simply comes to help us over come.
Please pull out this video from the public domain. Failure to do that will place you in a place where the blood of those people you are misleading will be put on your head brother Nadar.
Your Brother in Christ
Kashline Kash - Would you mind sharing with us the bible passages which
support the conclusions you have presented in your post above. Namely:
1) Our sinful nature remains with us until that day when we shall be translated at the coming of Christ.
2) Even after accepting Christ, the sinful nature remains in us.
3) What Adam gave to us will only be reversed after we have been translated from mortality to immortality.
4) Christ in me gives me ....These hereditary tendencies will only be quenched when we acquire our immortal bodies.
5) While we can overcome sin and all hereditary tendencies, the sinful nature will be with us for as long life continues here
You also stated "Christ simply comes to help us over come." Overcome what?
Thank you!
Only True God if you can give me a verse or evidence that shows that our fallen nature the one which we inherited from Adam is transformed into a pure and holy state after we accept Christ then I will answer your questions
Kashline Kash - Are you dodging my question? I made no assertions, such as "our fallen nature the one which we inherited from Adam is transformed into a pure and holy state after we accept Christ".
You however, made several assertions in your post, without offering any scriptural evidence. I'm simply asking you for the evidence which supports the points you have made. No need to get defensive. You have laid out a position, I would think they are backed up be scripture. I'm simply asking for those scriptures to evaluate what you have said. Thanks!
Romans 7
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Verse 25 tells us that because of Christ, while my flesh remains sinful, the mind under the subjection of Christ can still serve God.
1 Corinthians 15:52-55
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?