Very interesting thank you for filming this. I have disassembled many of these hubs over the past decade but never a newer model Cargo hub which this one is. Wasn't easy to see but one of the modifications which I was promised would make the hub better appears to be plastic end caps on the planet axles. Very unimpressed but got 2 on test at the moment so will see how they do. Maybe there is more to it so should reserve my judgement until after more testing. I experimented with bronze bushings as end caps and they would wear out quite quickly but did save the stator. These things still don't appear to be built to last which is a great shame because I love them.
Update, my CA hub has failed today and I suspect its these plastic end caps. First time in a decade of riding with these hubs that one has actually failed on a ride. It is still just about usable if you can get up to speed past underdrive. Very high drag in underdrive and at one piont it even slipped. Not that pleased with enviolo at the moment. Have spent the past 5 years developing automatic shifting and their hubs are turning out to be the only part that letting it down.
@@Ed.R Hello Ed, first of, thanks for your comments, always like to have some feed back, so I know that I'm not filming stuff like this just for myself. Sad to hear about the failed hub. I hope that you can find a solution to improve durability.
@@niokolabs I was going to say you should have kept the oil and sold it. The stuff is impossible to get hold of and I'd definitely like some spare. They are sending a replacement hub for me to test.
Thanks so much for this. I wanted to explore inverting this hub so that the right drive side is on the left side. This would be for single speed motorized bikes with left side chain drive. This video explains why it would/wouldn't work. I see now that the input and output drive rings are two halves with one way cam teeth and a bearing ring that sits in the middle for the cams to ride on. I see mechanically why they did this now. It's to expand the rings halves to apply more contact force and basically squeeze the CVT spheres when drive torque is applied in the appropriate direction. This additional pressure combined with the fluid, is what makes these virtually slip proof. For my concept to work, the cam teeth on the rings would have to be inverted to the opposite cam direction for that ring expansion "squeeze" to be applied when torqued in the opposite or left side direction. That means making new rings or modifying existing ones. Due diligence served, but thats where I am stopping with this endeavor.
También estoy en esta misma búsqueda , en mi caso para una honda 50 k1 , intenté traducir lo que dijo y parece que no es posible ? No alcanza con eliminar el sistema y dejarlo fijo? Espero que puedan traducirlo gracias
OOh I get it now! They are using the torque from the pedals to create the clamping force for the "ball transmission". Thats the point of those ramp-things at 2:26. I was wondering how they are creating the clamping force without a big spring
Amazing engineering to get all those balls and races into that little housing. Like all CVT's the actual ball to race contact is infinitly small and can slip under hi loads. The special black liquid in the hub is designed to "stack" up around the contact spots increasing friction between the hardened steel surfaces. Not as efficient as a chain with discrete sprockets, but smooth and quiet and stepless instead. Perfect for the leisure and rental market. Would I tour across Mongolia with it..Nope.
I'm trying to make a geared unicycle from one of these, and am interested to see the planet carrier is fixed to the shaft. Not a problem in a regular bike for a unicycle the shaft needs to transmit torque between the pedals, and if the transmission input is coupled to the shaft then there is no relative motion between the planets and the input ring, which is a big problem. I could hold the input ring fixed against the frame, but then the wheel will turn the wrong way and the input ring will disengage, not transmitting torque. Also, suboptimal to be unable to ride in reverse. A good puzzle!
the enclosure that holds the enviolo also holds the spokes. And is very brittle, spokes break out of it, ruining the whole thing. You showed it, I experienced the same
Interesting, I found two of these hubs, and I was under the impression, that the flanges were broken on purpose (eg. warranty claim without returning).
Very interresting. I have been riding a 380 for 3500 km now and it works very well. But one thing I still do not understand: how are the planets tilted and held in the desired angle? It is not explained og visualized in any picture or video I have seen yet. Yes, the old ones had a kind of fork around the planets, moved by the center roller but it seems they use another principle now?
Hmm, good question, I think it's what starts here: ua-cam.com/video/5kV7NTgO4s0/v-deo.html on that strange spider, there is a gear on the opposite site of the freewheel. This seems to engage with the planets. But how the Spider is held in place, I don't know.
Damn that looks complex 😊 There's got to be a simpler way. I think the future is in better chain+cog alloys and surface treatments. They should be able to boost lifetimes of standard chain-Derailleur setups by 10x.
How can they manufacture and sell that hub retail for around 120USD? There are so many machined parts inside and the assembly complexity is incredible.
Actually never gave this a thought, but it's more like 300USD, isn't it? At least in Europe it is.. But even at 300USD it seems rather cheap for how it's made.
I bought a new NuVinci N171 unit from Calfee Design and it leaked during shipping. When I emailed them for some help they could neither supply any pf the oil nor could they point me in a direction to buy some. Sadly their after sales service on this item is 0. No internal spares. Little if any external spares. Although their replies are always courteous they offer NO after sales service. Finally, I wish I could find some of the correct oil to refill my new but empty, and therefore useless, NuVinci N171 rear hub
@@monter75 No I don't. None of the companies that should be able to help in supplying it, i.e. Enviolo, Calfee or the other resellers, simply don't acknowledge a request regarding any sale of he oil. This may be because they require any servicing, which requires topping up the oil, on the units to be done by them at their premises. It's been overwhelming disappointing dealing with any after-sales support on any of the Enviolo/NuVinci products. Re: the oil, I will probably retrieve a few millilitres get a local oil lab to check it out and give me a recommendation. It surely can't be that different to something else that's readily available.
It indeed is - I don't have any personal experience with geared hubs, so I cannot really help you there. What I can say, is that I personally like lightweight wheels, and putting a geared hub, or a hub motor into a wheel will end up in a heavy wheel - so I would not buy any IGH. I would consider it on an electric assist cargo bike though.
There was a second one, with the same visual defects. I suspect that these have internally failed, and the OEM asked the shop to destroy them instead of sending them back for warranty.
Interesting video but very annoying camera movement. Also it's frustrating to see the videographer fumbling with one hand. A bit more professionalism would have made this video more tolerable.
No one has made you watch it, but you yourself. So, do us a favour, will ya? Quit the nagging and the complaining. I for one applaud the vid creator for his tenacity in the given Situation.
I was curious about the internal structure, but thanks to you, I saw it well. Thank you😘😘
Very interesting. Remarkable engineering. 👍
Very interesting thank you for filming this. I have disassembled many of these hubs over the past decade but never a newer model Cargo hub which this one is. Wasn't easy to see but one of the modifications which I was promised would make the hub better appears to be plastic end caps on the planet axles. Very unimpressed but got 2 on test at the moment so will see how they do. Maybe there is more to it so should reserve my judgement until after more testing. I experimented with bronze bushings as end caps and they would wear out quite quickly but did save the stator.
These things still don't appear to be built to last which is a great shame because I love them.
Update, my CA hub has failed today and I suspect its these plastic end caps. First time in a decade of riding with these hubs that one has actually failed on a ride. It is still just about usable if you can get up to speed past underdrive. Very high drag in underdrive and at one piont it even slipped.
Not that pleased with enviolo at the moment. Have spent the past 5 years developing automatic shifting and their hubs are turning out to be the only part that letting it down.
@@Ed.R Hello Ed, first of, thanks for your comments, always like to have some feed back, so I know that I'm not filming stuff like this just for myself.
Sad to hear about the failed hub. I hope that you can find a solution to improve durability.
@@niokolabs I was going to say you should have kept the oil and sold it. The stuff is impossible to get hold of and I'd definitely like some spare.
They are sending a replacement hub for me to test.
What is the most common damage to these? They seem to be all metal therefore should be reliable
@@vinylscorcese3435 It used to be the freewheel but the latest hubs have far better quality ones with separate springs.
Good effort, hope another video of re assembly, thanks.
Thanks so much for this. I wanted to explore inverting this hub so that the right drive side is on the left side. This would be for single speed motorized bikes with left side chain drive. This video explains why it would/wouldn't work. I see now that the input and output drive rings are two halves with one way cam teeth and a bearing ring that sits in the middle for the cams to ride on. I see mechanically why they did this now. It's to expand the rings halves to apply more contact force and basically squeeze the CVT spheres when drive torque is applied in the appropriate direction. This additional pressure combined with the fluid, is what makes these virtually slip proof. For my concept to work, the cam teeth on the rings would have to be inverted to the opposite cam direction for that ring expansion "squeeze" to be applied when torqued in the opposite or left side direction. That means making new rings or modifying existing ones. Due diligence served, but thats where I am stopping with this endeavor.
También estoy en esta misma búsqueda , en mi caso para una honda 50 k1 , intenté traducir lo que dijo y parece que no es posible ?
No alcanza con eliminar el sistema y dejarlo fijo?
Espero que puedan traducirlo gracias
Luv these type of videos, thanks.
Thanks for the video! Great to see the inside of one of these. (But you should set up a tip jar so we can buy you a tripod ;) )
That is indeed a good Idea 🙂
Thanks!
Very cool, thanks. It looks very heavy for a bike hub, amazing engineering though.
Indeed - wouldn't want it on a normal bike. Might be interesting on an electric cargo bike.
It's a clever CV idea
It's heavy indeed,and you need more power in the legs to pedal, so yea, best used with electric assist.
OOh I get it now! They are using the torque from the pedals to create the clamping force for the "ball transmission". Thats the point of those ramp-things at 2:26. I was wondering how they are creating the clamping force without a big spring
Amazing engineering to get all those balls and races into that little housing. Like all CVT's the actual ball to race contact is infinitly small and can slip under hi loads. The special black liquid in the hub is designed to "stack" up around the contact spots increasing friction between the hardened steel surfaces. Not as efficient as a chain with discrete sprockets, but smooth and quiet and stepless instead. Perfect for the leisure and rental market. Would I tour across Mongolia with it..Nope.
great video, thanks
I'm trying to make a geared unicycle from one of these, and am interested to see the planet carrier is fixed to the shaft. Not a problem in a regular bike for a unicycle the shaft needs to transmit torque between the pedals, and if the transmission input is coupled to the shaft then there is no relative motion between the planets and the input ring, which is a big problem. I could hold the input ring fixed against the frame, but then the wheel will turn the wrong way and the input ring will disengage, not transmitting torque. Also, suboptimal to be unable to ride in reverse. A good puzzle!
the enclosure that holds the enviolo also holds the spokes. And is very brittle, spokes break out of it, ruining the whole thing. You showed it, I experienced the same
Interesting, I found two of these hubs, and I was under the impression, that the flanges were broken on purpose (eg. warranty claim without returning).
Very interresting. I have been riding a 380 for 3500 km now and it works very well.
But one thing I still do not understand: how are the planets tilted and held in the desired angle? It is not explained og visualized in any picture or video I have seen yet. Yes, the old ones had a kind of fork around the planets, moved by the center roller but it seems they use another principle now?
Hmm, good question, I think it's what starts here: ua-cam.com/video/5kV7NTgO4s0/v-deo.html on that strange spider, there is a gear on the opposite site of the freewheel. This seems to engage with the planets. But how the Spider is held in place, I don't know.
I know everything about it, it's awesome
Damn that looks complex 😊
There's got to be a simpler way. I think the future is in better chain+cog alloys and surface treatments. They should be able to boost lifetimes of standard chain-Derailleur setups by 10x.
Can you open it without using a saw? I suspect the notched structure behind/around the freehub will take a special tool?
I don't have it anymore, but that's how I think it should be opened without distruction.
How can they manufacture and sell that hub retail for around 120USD? There are so many machined parts inside and the assembly complexity is incredible.
Actually never gave this a thought, but it's more like 300USD, isn't it? At least in Europe it is..
But even at 300USD it seems rather cheap for how it's made.
I know Valvoline manufactures the friction fluid used inside those NuVinci hubs, but don't know its exact specifications.
I bought a new NuVinci N171 unit from Calfee Design and it leaked during shipping. When I emailed them for some help they could neither supply any pf the oil nor could they point me in a direction to buy some. Sadly their after sales service on this item is 0. No internal spares. Little if any external spares.
Although their replies are always courteous they offer NO after sales service.
Finally, I wish I could find some of the correct oil to refill my new but empty, and therefore useless, NuVinci N171 rear hub
@@-MacCat- I would get in touch with the guys over at Priority Cycles in New York, just to see where they can steer you.
@@VideoNOLA Thanks a bunch for the lead. I'll get onto them asap.
@@-MacCat- Hi. Do you already know what oil should be in the hub? My wife's bike is leaking and I want to fix it.
@@monter75 No I don't. None of the companies that should be able to help in supplying it, i.e. Enviolo, Calfee or the other resellers, simply don't acknowledge a request regarding any sale of he oil. This may be because they require any servicing, which requires topping up the oil, on the units to be done by them at their premises.
It's been overwhelming disappointing dealing with any after-sales support on any of the Enviolo/NuVinci products.
Re: the oil, I will probably retrieve a few millilitres get a local oil lab to check it out and give me a recommendation.
It surely can't be that different to something else that's readily available.
Wow. That's truly a monster of complexity. I intend to buy a bike with enviolo. Would you recommend? Thanks for the video. 👍😎
It indeed is - I don't have any personal experience with geared hubs, so I cannot really help you there. What I can say, is that I personally like lightweight wheels, and putting a geared hub, or a hub motor into a wheel will end up in a heavy wheel - so I would not buy any IGH.
I would consider it on an electric assist cargo bike though.
cool technology but it looks like a maintenance nightmare
I assembel this hun in enviolo
You worked there and assembled the new ones?
Rider hit by automobile by the look
There was a second one, with the same visual defects. I suspect that these have internally failed, and the OEM asked the shop to destroy them instead of sending them back for warranty.
Насколько же ты криворук 🤣
Get off your wallet and buy a tripod, Or make one.
Happy to accept donations.
Interesting video but very annoying camera movement. Also it's frustrating to see the videographer fumbling with one hand. A bit more professionalism would have made this video more tolerable.
Sorry, only have two hands.
No one has made you watch it, but you yourself. So, do us a favour, will ya? Quit the nagging and the complaining. I for one applaud the vid creator for his tenacity in the given Situation.