Well it took me long enough, but here is my contribution to the collab! You can find the other videos in this amazing series here: ua-cam.com/play/PLbGwg11hQxtmYbZNyxHln5NMhZWDhHXs3.html
För kriget det kan Förgöra en man Jag ger mitt liv för mitt fosterland Men vem saknar mig Så se mig som den En make en vän Fader och son som aldrig kommer hem igen Men vem sörjer mig
Just the research I wanted for my fantasy novel where an industrial revolution culture has ruinous wars. Some armies will have Auxiliary Support enlistees that include military wives as well as others not fit for combat but vital to the wellbeing of the troops. They get wages, low of course, and some benefits if crippled or killed. Thanks for the great information!🖖✌
Thanks man, this is one of the first history videos my wife was interested in watching with me, and is desperately needed to understand how life was like. There are endless accounts of the court intrigue, cheating and scandal of the upper classes, but little practical info on the normal people, most of our ancestors.
It was worth the wait! Thank you so much! I feel so validated! Since Brandywine I’ve been working on my impression of a Hessian camp follower, going off of Fredrika von Reidsels diary primarily aiming at her mention of what her maids were like, but now with more time and resources I want to focus on a British impression as well and your sources have been a goldmine. Again, thank you
We tend to focus on the hardships, privations and savage discipline of the military of the period as being uniquely barbaric and forget that civilian life for the classes from which these men , and women were drawn was often more harsh and precarious. The civilian penal codes were more brutal and working conditions in the industrial revolution horrendous. In many ways army life was an improvement with security of tenure, guaranteed food, clothing, pay, and even medical attention or education which did not exist in civilian life. Disease epidemics were just as common in the insanitary slums, if not more so, than in the military environment. Yet, this is a welcome recognition of the contribution of army wives. I would recommend the writings of Bernard Cornwell in his novels 'Redcoat' and 'The Fort' to any student of the American War of Independence as Cornwell is well versed in the subject of life in the period, especially military life.
On the other end from laundresses, seamstresses (laundry could also include picking things apart and putting them together again, as well as repair work), and cooking, the high ranking wives sometimes served as head nurses and running logistics of different kinds, much as the wife of a nobleman could be the second on command running the affairs, estates, in his abscence.
I know even the Mormon Battalion which endured the longest military march in American History during the Mexican American War in 1847 had many women join their husbands as laundresses. They walked just as far as the men, and everyone looked like survivors rather than soldiers by the time they reached San Diego
@@BrandonF If it's not popular it'll only because some folks only want to learn about subjects they like, however if they're interested in a particular era they should look at ALL of it. The whole culture of a particular era can tell you a lot about why people behaved and acted as they did. For example I've always believed part of the understanding of an era involves the music of that era, if for nothing else than understanding the mindset of the people of the time. For example Swing music can tell you as much about the American GI of WW2 as anything else! (Personally I don't believe we could have won WW2 without Glenn Miller!) And you should be proud of this video, it was a hell of an effort on your part!
@@BrandonFSadly I agree that this might not be so popular as your others but I learned more new information in this hour then I have from entire books of Napoleonic history. This was a wonderful educational achievement.
There are books that talk about the matter but they are not very accessible to the public in one way or another. Videos like this made the topic accessible for them, and it is of great service for this channel to do this..
I wouldn't say "just as important" but yes they're certainly number 2 on the list. Without women, the british army would have figured out the logistics, it just would have been more expensive and less efficient. I don't want to rain on your parade, because women absolutely deserve high recognition here... but you should remember that these men were being stabbed, shot, burned, and blown apart. The primary job of a military force is killing and dying, and women did not participate in this literally fundamental aspect of warfare. Without the women, the field armies would likely collapse. Without the men, England would collapse. Two very different ball-games.
These kinds of video really show the humanity of the campaigning, and the hard work and struggle and risk of army wives. I learned a lot about these always-overlooked people that were just as part of the war as the actual combatants.
This might be your best video yet, Brandon. A great balance of raw facts backed by primary sources, combined with a recognition of the emotional/personal/human story behind those facts. So many people are shocked to hear that women, children, families were common sights in military encampments and campaigns...in spite of the fact that they've been there since the days of Alexander, and earlier. To steal from another history UA-camr, it's a story that...deserves to be remembered.
Hello Brandon. Better late eighteen century than never. A regimental women's video prerogative. Very informative. It made me think of the character of the potential sergeant's wife in "Far From the Madding Crowd", though this was later, but because of that somehow more relatable. My grandmother knew people from that time and would speak of them when I was young. You could imagine those people hearing first hand these stories in your video. Not such a distant past in some ways.
As a fellow historian, I must commend you on this excellent video. The negative stereotypes attached to women accompanying armies in garrison or on campaign has bothered me for a long time. Well done, sir.
Excellent retrospective on camp followers in European regiments! Having washed clothes using 18th century techniques, I can see why washerwomen were so buff. We simply don't know how well we have it with machines that do all the work for us now.
This makes me wonder about Lydia Bennett Wickham. What inquiries could have been made into her character before her marriage? Did she ever travel with the regiment? I doubt she had any useful skills or a good enough work ethic to follow the army.
Wickham was an officer of the militia, and they were part time soldiers who never went on campaign or left England, and I don't think the same rules applied.
@iainlovejoy2135 True, Wickham WAS a militia officer, but following his marriage to Lydia, was given a commission in a regular regiment (we are never told which; only that it is stationed in the North (Newcastle, if memory serves me right)).
I've read that the women who were present and fought at Trafalgar as part of the Navy petitioned the Lords of the Admiralty to be included in the award of medals after that victory. They were denied--not because they weren't there, and not because they were there against regulations (neither being true), but because doing so would de facto open the navy to women more generally, which the Admiralty wanted to avoid. It's also worth noting that women had been part of combat troops for several thousand years at that point. They served a variety of vital functions within the unit, to such an extent that Roman armies would only kick them out (on paper) as an extraordinary measure. The issue is, if you remove the women and other camp followers, all those tasks had to be taken up by the soldiers. This reduced the distance soldiers could travel (by increasing the workload they had), which made campaigns much more hazardous. Armies are BIG, as big as some cities, and to feed them without refrigeration or motorized transportation required them to keep moving. It was entirely possible (Sparta did it) to starve an army in a breadbasket area. While the 18th century improved conditions, they hadn't eliminated this brutal calculus, as the Declaration of Independence demonstrates.
Do you know where the phrase "Show a leg!" comes from? And "son of a gun"? Yep, you're right...the Royal Navy and the women who served, one way or another, on board Navy ships. As the descendant of two veterans of the Temeraire at Trafalgar and wife of a matelot, I'm totally engrossed in these things.
Its always interesting to know about more sides of history than just the men and big battles and great generals. Thats why I love your videos Brandon, looking forward to your next video!
Brandon I'm not sure how meany times you hear this, but hopefully I can be another to say your choice in dress is so incredible. You never disappoint in your fashion sense.
So, how common were women in the rebel, Continental army? I'm relatively new to this field, but I have not heard many stories of American women on campaign during the American Revolution. Given the extreme dearth of food and clothing during much of the war, I imagine it would have been living Hell for any women present (as it was for the men).
The Women most certainly earned their merits though it’s doubtful they were ever awarded them. Certainly in the 18th century this would be the case. For what its worth I pin this emoji to thine memory🎖️
Oh Polly love, oh Polly, the rout has now begun. We must go a-marching to the beating of the drum. Dress yourself all in your best and come along with me. I'll take you to the war, my love, in High Germany.
Update to the 1860's: "Oh Polly, oh Polly, it's for your sake alone, "I left my poor old father, my country and my home, "I left my dear old mother to weep and to mourn, "I am a Rebel soldier and far from my home." Nothing new about recycling!
Hi Brandon, do you know if such women were present in later British campaigns, such as the Zulu, Afghan or Boer wars? I know the French kept them even in uniforms (vivandieres)
Nursing was the main venue for women who wanted to follow the British campaigns during the later part of the 19th century. Janet Wells' account of her nursing work during the Zulu War is one example. Officers did take their wives on campaign as was the case with Mrs. Louisa Hutchinson during the same war. Florence Douglas Dixie was the first female correspondent to cover the Anglo-Zulu war. Teaching was another pathway as was the case for 20 New Zealand women who traveled to South Africa to teach at the concentration camps during the Boer War. Women were discouraged from being 'camp followers' during the later part of the Victoria era in the British army but that doesn't mean they weren't active and contributing participants during the conflicts of Empire.
It has been suggested that you have a source for officers wives being used as battlefield messengers by their husbands. Do you have such a source? And if so, is it available?
So I guess marrying a stripper and buying a mount at 29.9% APR from the nag merchant outside the star fortress gate right out of basic is a tradition of a more recent vintage.
@BrandonF I want to do a hike from Washington crossing through trenton back to PA then through crosswicks and up for the 2nd battle of trenton and to Princeton then mammoth. Wanna do it with a 40lb kit and see how we do? I'm serious. I have a history teacher about yr age who's willing.
As said in this excellent video, the wives would be under a certain discipline. However, I suspect that armies in the field would pick up additional camp followers (who might well include "professional ladies") locally. During the Napoleonic Wars, the activities of the French would often lead to a lot displaced, disgraced and traumatised women from conservative agricultural communities.
I know of stories of women passing as men in the ranks, a Russian cavalry officer, a British Marine serving abord ships and a Prussian soldier. All 3 servered long in disguise.
I love this vid, and learned a lot. However, I would not call prostitutes women of ill repute. They served a vital function during war, many being the last woman a soldier might be with before his death, some, even though for coin, being there to hold a lonely soldier, who needed to be heald after seeing such horrible things in War. As you said, the number of women, wives only, who were allowed to accompany the army were limited. And the only issue I have with your vid, is that I felt it did not make the distinction that "women of ill repute" was the mentality of the society at the time. Otherwise, a very informative, and gripping video. Thank you.
Even in the reenactment scene, women are a vital part of camp life. Of course it is no longer laundry these days because you do that at home after the weekend, but the long journeys, shopping, repairing clothes, cooking, mounting camp etc etc etc makes it hard work for men and women. I don't think the public in general understands how much effort and hard work a reenactment weekend is and most of the time without pay. You are lucky when the organization provides you with meals and powder.......... But we love it. 🙃
Have you looked into romantic friendshios between 18th century soldiers? It would be quite an interesting subject, given how differently ideals of masculinity were perceived and lived in that time. Thinking for example also how romantically many Patriot officers gushed over Major John André, and mourned his death. It would be a fascinating insight into how the needs for companionship and intimacy were dealt with for soldiers and officers who did not have their spouses close by.
Around 1 woman per 6-10 soldiers. So about one per squad(or whatever you want to call it), the lowest natural form of organization that continuously crops up in militaries throughout history. Roman legions would have a similar ratio of legionaires to indentured slaves/workers(not quite sure if they were slaves) to act as support personnel in a similar manner.
I tend to focus on the 30 Years War where it seems that it had more sex work than perhaps the late 1700s had which you study more. As for children, during the times when they were fortunate to not do that thankfully, they still could have gruesome lives. I remember about 15 years ago now, when I read a book series called The Magic Treehouse. Two kids, Jackie and Anne, about 7 and 8 or so whose age I was similar to back then, who go into many historical periods via a magic treehouse (go figure). One of them was the American Civil War. I didn´t understand why heatstroke was such a danger back then, but I do now. If one things about it, they go into some scenes of horrific wounds, during their time when they walk across a battlefield and some woman asks them to help take care of the wounded. They even tackle the issue of what happens when you had wounded on both sides, and the attempt at humanizing this issue. I don´t remember who won that battle of what ultimately happened in that story besides them coming back to the present, but you can just imagine how that can screw up a child in mere seconds, let alone hours or days they were there. I hope their parents were able to do something to help them understand or just to throw their arms around the two.
Imagine those children who, fair or foul, enlisted into military regiments themselves. Especially those who enlisted as bugle and drummer boys for regiments...
biology and our understanding of biology (the general lack of understanding) did not change between those two periods. Neither did christianity (a "sin" remained a "sin"). I don't think there was less or more sex work when we compare those 21 periods.
Something I really feel intrigued about British military regimental wives, was it possible for them to see combat directly or to participate in it? Something strange about the hispanic world is the somewhat common image in both popular culture and historical records of women soldiers. From cantineras in Chile, Rabonas in Bolivia and Peru, Soldaderas and Adelitas in Mexico, or even women Guerrilleras in Spain itself against Napoleonic troops in 1808. Women were not only serving as logistic aid corps, but sometimes as part of actual combat units. Several accounts, like that of General Andres Garcia Camba, in 1814 against the rebel indepentists in Cusco, noted how the rear of the army was assaulted, and the wives and daughters of soldiers would grab the closest musket they could find in the camp and fought and drove back the rebels. Even fighting hand to hand with bayonets fixed. Many being killed in the process. In Mexico, from the Independence in the 1820’s to the French-Mexican, and Mexican-American War you see similar accounts, women soldiers who actively participate in combat, following their husbands, their fathers, sometimes it’s even mothers following their sons. Another interesting fact is how western armies saw this. It was deemed as a savage and barbarian trait, like amazons of old. The idea that the savage and backwards people of the spanish Americas, unlike the Anglo-Saxon and even French Ubermensch, would even allow women to carry arms, let alone fight alongside men. And the officer corps in many of these armies were strongly against them, but tolerated them as a necessary evil due to the lack of logistical infrastructure to replace them. Chile had to institutionalize them. Strip them of any possibility of bearing arms, issue them uniforms and regulations to keep them under control, as a military unit. Similar to what the British and French armies did. Although there are several accounts of Cantineras actually fighting. But in other places like Mexico, it was simply impossible to coerce them into not participating in combat. There is a gruesome account of the Mexican Revolution about how Pancho Villa saw combat agains an entirely or maybe mostly female guerrilla, and ended up slaughtering them after overrunning their position. By the end of the 1800’s you’d even have women captains and leftenants. And the Spanish Americas had some of the first official women combat roles and officers as early as the mid 19th Century.
I think there are a lack of understanding how much work behind the scene needs to be done for every front line soldier. That goes historically as well as for modern armed forces.
Wow, this gives more meaning to the song Bonnie Lass O Fyvie. I thought it was a just beautiful love song but this context makes the lyrics really bleed.
well the french especially after the revolution and napoleon certainly created a rather different system and intergrated them into a quasi military force complete with their own uniforms.
As an old Jersey Guy I can say they didn't call NJ "The Cockpit Of The Revolution" for nothing! In fact, the area of NJ where I grew up, Bergen County, was the scene of some VERY vicious fighting between Tory and Patriot groups, to say nothing of Redcoats versus Continentals. An excellent book about that subject is "The Revolutionary War In The Hackensack Valley" by Adrien Lieby. It MIGHT still be available from the Bergen County Historical Society but I'm not sure about that, I've had my copy almost 40 years. It was in print for quite a few years.
It depended on who you were and where you lived. Here in the "colonies" a man with drive and ambition could make a pretty good life for himself, his wife and children. It wasn't easy of course, but if the 18th Century wasn't the best time to be alive it was far from the worst.
Yeah I was gonna say, honestly being in the American colonies in the 18th century (Depending on your personality and what colony you were in) would probably be one of the best eras in history to be alive in.
Tbh I think Brandon here is a bit unfair towards sex workers around the military; while their job wasn't vital to its function per se, that doesn't mean they were all bad or disorderly people. However, I do agree that the point should be made about women in military having jobs other than "a prostitute". A very interesting and informative video!
Recently found your channel Brandon excellent content! Would love to see you do something on the British legion or Banastre Tarleton like a character study or something would be cool, keep up the great work!
I noticed in the painting pictured at 2:40 a grenadier is giving a hand salute. I wonder when that type of salute became common in the British Army superceding the "compliment of the hat" with the left hand? Maybe a hand salute started with the grenadiers as removing the mitre cap was impractical and then spread to the rest of the army from there?
It's a really interesting topic and it could absolutely be a video. But you've basically got it right- for most soldiers the custom was to remove the hat with whatever hand was further away from the officer, except when wearing a "Cap" which would have been cumbersome, when it was just touching one's hand to the hat. Cuthbertson has an entire section on "Rendering Honours" and how it should be done.
It's funny but Napoleon, had that quiet of a mentality that wives should follow their husbands anywhere they go (at a point that he even suggest she follows him in prison if he is sentenced)...but never in the army for three reasons: 1. as you said, it's a dead weight (imagine the Russian campaign with the wives and children of the soldiers), 2. The men hated that and it would have been bad for basic camaradery between the soldiers and 3. Lastly...the French had a very vivid memory of a very old battle which happened more than a thousand years ago at Poitiers (732), where the Omeyades have been defeated and stopped in Europe, because they traveled with their wives and children and goods waiting in a back camp...which the duc of Aquitaines attacked. These are not just useless mouths, they are dead weight unabling you to send major counter offensives or fast and long moves, and they are weak points you have to defend offered to your ennenemies so...yeah, the men will do the cooking and wash their clothes themselves. As much as I know, the two types of women who followed the armies (French ones) were the "cantinières", (military cookers) under Napoleon and "femmes à soldats" ("soldiers women) who were...prostitutes.
Wow. I mean, I knew this all was a thing, women being good industrious parts of the armies. But not nearly in this detail. Thank you for the video. It's inspired me to make a few adjustments to my old world story my wife and I are working on. Especially since her character that she writes for was going to be joining a character I write for while they campaign in the Caribbean and eventually North America after the pair got married.
@@trevdestroyer8209 Hey there. We've actually got a few stories that we have been working on for some time. Old world (1640s), Zombie/Plague (Modern), and I started a sci-fi story recently (Thousand + years in the future). The writing style doesn't lend itself to novel format. So it takes a long time to convert it over. Though I have noted just recently how a lot of stories, on UA-cam at least, are being released chapter by chapter. So you can get it sooner as it comes out rather than wait for a completed work. Since you asked about it, would this be something you personally would be ok with seeing? Something like a chapter a week as it's written? Or would you prefer to wait (for admittedly an unknown time) for a completed book? Edit: I'm kind of leaning toward the chapter a week (or whatever time frame is decided on) and release as I suspect it will help with my motivation and desire to write. Especially during periods where I'm wiped out from my day job. Lol
@@trevdestroyer8209 *Nods* Very well. I just started looking into this option. So I'll let ya know what we end up doing after I have a chance to go over it with my wife. 🙂 And thank you. I appreciate the interest!
"A guide as to how officers can get involved in their soldier's romantic lives." Yeah my licentious brain went off on quite the tangent at that eyebrow wriggle. I might have to pick up a copy, if you get my meaning.
Meant to add...4x gt grandmother followed her Royal Artillery husband to Boston, and nursed him following his terrible injuries at Bunker Hill. Such a courageous woman, related to the Fairfaxes of Virginia, and by association, Washington himself. I have a horse in this race!
It seems like this basically did not happen in the United States very often. I know from books that in the British and French armies of the 19th century this was definitely a thing from the time of Napoleon to the Crimean War being the most famous examples.
Pretty good video overall, but semi disappointed by the conclusion of "individuals who served their country", and about respecting the soldiers of today, while it is important that veterans, just like all other peoples, should get sufficient care to maintain a healthy mental and physical well being, it should be important to not glamorize them, they invaded places, they may not of been directly responsible but they were (and modern soldiers mostly are spare some like the Ukrainian defenders) invaded places that would've done no harm to their country if left alone.
I am happy that a group of Historians gathered together to combat myths but weren't sometimes historians themselves guilty of creating Myths .as an example to illustrate more the Term Dark ages was coined by Historians largely in 16th and 19th century ,and then it has become wide spread and popular amongst non academics .and now the 21 century academics are angry and are disgusted , looking with disdain on illiterate/non academic people for using the term Dark ages the very same term and misconceptions that historians in the past helped to perpetuate.
Historians can be as trendy as high school kids, especially the ones who want to impress others in the faculty lounge rather than arrive at the truth, so try and get the big picture as best you can and don't trust anyone to paint it for you. I'll tell you one thing though, and I've been studying history for almost 60 years, the old-timers were a LOT more sophisticated than moderns give them credit for! So keep that in mind.
historians have a tendency to be arrogant idiots who believe that because they know one History subject it somehow means they know all History. some examples are the stupid myths about armor weighing so much that you cannot move or swords being clubs because they are Essentially most of the time nerds that have no idea about warfare or the worst habit of shitty historians: using modern morality and customs to look down on the past. this ranges from feminists implying that men were all evil who enslaved all women and women being only pick me and weak or the stupid lengths historians pretend that humans didnt know any hygiene or that all people just drank alcohol because water wasnt clean. hell most of the time the vast amount of myths can be debunk by just common sense simply because our ancestors are still all humans not some weird aliens that were all dwarf size
Its mentioned that women were forbidden from taking a supplemental job as firefighting, this would imply that it was at least not uncommon for a women to have this job is there any more information on this? it sounds very interesting.
Question: what protection did army wife's had. Both from other drunk men who have lost their regamental honor. But manly from an other victories enermy.
Women marrying man after man when their earlier husband died while in the military was not confined to European Armies. It also happened within the United States Army. Particularly during the late 1800's and the American Indian Wars. I have heard of one woman who married a soldier who subsequently died. She then remarried, up to six separate husbands. HOWEVER, when she herself finally died, it was discovered that she was actually male!
Not just in the military, but in North America from the 18th Century through the 19th and into the early 20th it wasn't unusual for a widowed woman, or man for that matter, to stay unattached for very long, and for practical reasons. Widowed mothers needed stepfathers for their children and widowed men needed stepmothers for theirs. Abraham Lincoln's father is a prime example. Davy Crockett married again after his wife died and married a widow with children, so the Crocketts had what we call now a blended family. There was also the phenomenon of what I think was called the "frontier divorce." On the old frontier of the Appalachian Range husbands would go off on treks and never return without a word of their wherabouts or fate, so what was a woman to do? She often remarried an available man and the frontier preachers being very pragmatic men would ignore the irregularity and officiate the weddings. The marriage of Andrew Jackson and Rachel Robards is a great example of that although Rachel's husband eventually showed up again! Another story.
No mate, maybe centuries ago but certainly not nowadays. I've seen careers ended through soldiers being refused permission from their CO to soldiers just leaving so as not to demean themselves and their women by asking in the first place. Good video 👍
Well it took me long enough, but here is my contribution to the collab! You can find the other videos in this amazing series here: ua-cam.com/play/PLbGwg11hQxtmYbZNyxHln5NMhZWDhHXs3.html
Your Did It!! 🥳🎉
För kriget det kan
Förgöra en man
Jag ger mitt liv för mitt fosterland
Men vem saknar mig
Så se mig som den
En make en vän
Fader och son som aldrig kommer hem igen
Men vem sörjer mig
Just the research I wanted for my fantasy novel where an industrial revolution culture has ruinous wars. Some armies will have Auxiliary Support enlistees that include military wives as well as others not fit for combat but vital to the wellbeing of the troops. They get wages, low of course, and some benefits if crippled or killed. Thanks for the great information!🖖✌
Women: An irreplacable core of logistical and support personnel.
Children: The future of the Regiment!
Sharpe the tv show showed the women of the regiment as integral to the regiment which is very rare in history based tv tropes.
Thanks man, this is one of the first history videos my wife was interested in watching with me, and is desperately needed to understand how life was like. There are endless accounts of the court intrigue, cheating and scandal of the upper classes, but little practical info on the normal people, most of our ancestors.
It was worth the wait! Thank you so much! I feel so validated! Since Brandywine I’ve been working on my impression of a Hessian camp follower, going off of Fredrika von Reidsels diary primarily aiming at her mention of what her maids were like, but now with more time and resources I want to focus on a British impression as well and your sources have been a goldmine. Again, thank you
That's awesome to hear! Glad I could be of help.
We tend to focus on the hardships, privations and savage discipline of the military of the period as being uniquely barbaric and forget that civilian life for the classes from which these men , and women were drawn was often more harsh and precarious. The civilian penal codes were more brutal and working conditions in the industrial revolution horrendous. In many ways army life was an improvement with security of tenure, guaranteed food, clothing, pay, and even medical attention or education which did not exist in civilian life. Disease epidemics were just as common in the insanitary slums, if not more so, than in the military environment. Yet, this is a welcome recognition of the contribution of army wives.
I would recommend the writings of Bernard Cornwell in his novels 'Redcoat' and 'The Fort' to any student of the American War of Independence as Cornwell is well versed in the subject of life in the period, especially military life.
I just thought about Cornwell's writing!
Your empathic insights are an example to us all Brandon.
On the other end from laundresses, seamstresses (laundry could also include picking things apart and putting them together again, as well as repair work), and cooking, the high ranking wives sometimes served as head nurses and running logistics of different kinds, much as the wife of a nobleman could be the second on command running the affairs, estates, in his abscence.
I know even the Mormon Battalion which endured the longest military march in American History during the Mexican American War in 1847 had many women join their husbands as laundresses. They walked just as far as the men, and everyone looked like survivors rather than soldiers by the time they reached San Diego
A FAST 52 minutes and brilliantly presented! Well done Brandon, I learned a lot from this one!
Thanks for posting!
Thanks, Wayne! I am glad you enjoyed it. This is definitely one of those videos that won't be quite so popular, but I am very proud of this one.
@@BrandonF If it's not popular it'll only because some folks only want to learn about subjects they like, however if they're interested in a particular era they should look at ALL of it. The whole culture of a particular era can tell you a lot about why people behaved and acted as they did. For example I've always believed part of the understanding of an era involves the music of that era, if for nothing else than understanding the mindset of the people of the time. For example Swing music can tell you as much about the American GI of WW2 as anything else!
(Personally I don't believe we could have won WW2 without Glenn Miller!)
And you should be proud of this video, it was a hell of an effort on your part!
@@BrandonFSadly I agree that this might not be so popular as your others but I learned more new information in this hour then I have from entire books of Napoleonic history. This was a wonderful educational achievement.
Women were just as important as men for historical militaries, but most people don't understand this at all. Thanks for making this topic more known.
There are books that talk about the matter but they are not very accessible to the public in one way or another. Videos like this made the topic accessible for them, and it is of great service for this channel to do this..
Without logistics no army can exist
I wouldn't say "just as important" but yes they're certainly number 2 on the list. Without women, the british army would have figured out the logistics, it just would have been more expensive and less efficient.
I don't want to rain on your parade, because women absolutely deserve high recognition here... but you should remember that these men were being stabbed, shot, burned, and blown apart. The primary job of a military force is killing and dying, and women did not participate in this literally fundamental aspect of warfare.
Without the women, the field armies would likely collapse. Without the men, England would collapse. Two very different ball-games.
@@Grimpy970 "Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics."
-BONAPARTE, Napoleon (probably)
@@warlordofbritannia Like Sun Tzu once said: "an Army marches on its stomach."
These kinds of video really show the humanity of the campaigning, and the hard work and struggle and risk of army wives. I learned a lot about these always-overlooked people that were just as part of the war as the actual combatants.
This is a factor in 18-19th century military life I never even knew existed, your channel is always teaching me new things
Yay a longer Brandon vid!
Longest in about half a year I think! Now time to blitz through three shorter ones for sponsor deadlines!
This might be your best video yet, Brandon. A great balance of raw facts backed by primary sources, combined with a recognition of the emotional/personal/human story behind those facts. So many people are shocked to hear that women, children, families were common sights in military encampments and campaigns...in spite of the fact that they've been there since the days of Alexander, and earlier. To steal from another history UA-camr, it's a story that...deserves to be remembered.
Hello Brandon. Better late eighteen century than never. A regimental women's video prerogative.
Very informative.
It made me think of the character of the potential sergeant's wife in "Far From the Madding Crowd", though this was later, but because of that somehow more relatable. My grandmother knew people from that time and would speak of them when I was young. You could imagine those people hearing first hand these stories in your video. Not such a distant past in some ways.
As a fellow historian, I must commend you on this excellent video. The negative stereotypes attached to women accompanying armies in garrison or on campaign has bothered me for a long time. Well done, sir.
What do you actually mean with historians? Are you a lector, professor of history?
Agree - excellent work. Thank you very much, highly appreciated!
@@danielesti I'm an archivist.
Excellent retrospective on camp followers in European regiments! Having washed clothes using 18th century techniques, I can see why washerwomen were so buff. We simply don't know how well we have it with machines that do all the work for us now.
I checked out the Native Oak for a second time as I’ve been thinking about buying a mug! Thanks for a new video! Keep up the great work Brandon.
This makes me wonder about Lydia Bennett Wickham. What inquiries could have been made into her character before her marriage? Did she ever travel with the regiment? I doubt she had any useful skills or a good enough work ethic to follow the army.
Wickham was an officer of the militia, and they were part time soldiers who never went on campaign or left England, and I don't think the same rules applied.
@@iainlovejoy2135 Okay.
@iainlovejoy2135 True, Wickham WAS a militia officer, but following his marriage to Lydia, was given a commission in a regular regiment (we are never told which; only that it is stationed in the North (Newcastle, if memory serves me right)).
I've read that the women who were present and fought at Trafalgar as part of the Navy petitioned the Lords of the Admiralty to be included in the award of medals after that victory. They were denied--not because they weren't there, and not because they were there against regulations (neither being true), but because doing so would de facto open the navy to women more generally, which the Admiralty wanted to avoid.
It's also worth noting that women had been part of combat troops for several thousand years at that point. They served a variety of vital functions within the unit, to such an extent that Roman armies would only kick them out (on paper) as an extraordinary measure. The issue is, if you remove the women and other camp followers, all those tasks had to be taken up by the soldiers. This reduced the distance soldiers could travel (by increasing the workload they had), which made campaigns much more hazardous. Armies are BIG, as big as some cities, and to feed them without refrigeration or motorized transportation required them to keep moving. It was entirely possible (Sparta did it) to starve an army in a breadbasket area. While the 18th century improved conditions, they hadn't eliminated this brutal calculus, as the Declaration of Independence demonstrates.
Do you know where the phrase "Show a leg!" comes from? And "son of a gun"? Yep, you're right...the Royal Navy and the women who served, one way or another, on board Navy ships. As the descendant of two veterans of the Temeraire at Trafalgar and wife of a matelot, I'm totally engrossed in these things.
I would like to see a video on regimental children as many just think of "child soldiers".
Its always interesting to know about more sides of history than just the men and big battles and great generals. Thats why I love your videos Brandon, looking forward to your next video!
Brandon I'm not sure how meany times you hear this, but hopefully I can be another to say your choice in dress is so incredible. You never disappoint in your fashion sense.
So, how common were women in the rebel, Continental army? I'm relatively new to this field, but I have not heard many stories of American women on campaign during the American Revolution. Given the extreme dearth of food and clothing during much of the war, I imagine it would have been living Hell for any women present (as it was for the men).
Finally brandon’s wifi quit sucking and let him upload
Yep, it was that darn wifi, haha yep absolutely, that's why I was so late with it, darn wifi.
Another video from Mr. Brandon so soon, what a treat indeed.
The Women most certainly earned their merits though it’s doubtful they were ever awarded them. Certainly in the 18th century this would be the case. For what its worth I pin this emoji to thine memory🎖️
Oh Polly love, oh Polly, the rout has now begun.
We must go a-marching to the beating of the drum.
Dress yourself all in your best and come along with me.
I'll take you to the war, my love, in High Germany.
Update to the 1860's:
"Oh Polly, oh Polly, it's for your sake alone,
"I left my poor old father, my country and my home,
"I left my dear old mother to weep and to mourn,
"I am a Rebel soldier and far from my home."
Nothing new about recycling!
Hi Brandon, do you know if such women were present in later British campaigns, such as the Zulu, Afghan or Boer wars?
I know the French kept them even in uniforms (vivandieres)
The French also had them in indochina
@@terrybarrett2368 what about the British, though?
Nursing was the main venue for women who wanted to follow the British campaigns during the later part of the 19th century. Janet Wells' account of her nursing work during the Zulu War is one example. Officers did take their wives on campaign as was the case with Mrs. Louisa Hutchinson during the same war. Florence Douglas Dixie was the first female correspondent to cover the Anglo-Zulu war. Teaching was another pathway as was the case for 20 New Zealand women who traveled to South Africa to teach at the concentration camps during the Boer War. Women were discouraged from being 'camp followers' during the later part of the Victoria era in the British army but that doesn't mean they weren't active and contributing participants during the conflicts of Empire.
@@celston51 thank you very much! That's very helpful
I know they were present in the Afghan war, quite a lot of the casualties were these women and civilians related to the troops
It has been suggested that you have a source for officers wives being used as battlefield messengers by their husbands. Do you have such a source? And if so, is it available?
Really great Video!
Thank you!
So I guess marrying a stripper and buying a mount at 29.9% APR from the nag merchant outside the star fortress gate right out of basic is a tradition of a more recent vintage.
@BrandonF I want to do a hike from Washington crossing through trenton back to PA then through crosswicks and up for the 2nd battle of trenton and to Princeton then mammoth. Wanna do it with a 40lb kit and see how we do? I'm serious. I have a history teacher about yr age who's willing.
As said in this excellent video, the wives would be under a certain discipline. However, I suspect that armies in the field would pick up additional camp followers (who might well include "professional ladies") locally. During the Napoleonic Wars, the activities of the French would often lead to a lot displaced, disgraced and traumatised women from conservative agricultural communities.
I know of stories of women passing as men in the ranks, a Russian cavalry officer, a British Marine serving abord ships and a Prussian soldier. All 3 servered long in disguise.
One thing that was quite refreshing about Sharpe, they bothered to show the women and children on campaign with the army
I love this vid, and learned a lot. However, I would not call prostitutes women of ill repute. They served a vital function during war, many being the last woman a soldier might be with before his death, some, even though for coin, being there to hold a lonely soldier, who needed to be heald after seeing such horrible things in War. As you said, the number of women, wives only, who were allowed to accompany the army were limited. And the only issue I have with your vid, is that I felt it did not make the distinction that "women of ill repute" was the mentality of the society at the time. Otherwise, a very informative, and gripping video. Thank you.
Great show😊
Even in the reenactment scene, women are a vital part of camp life. Of course it is no longer laundry these days because you do that at home after the weekend, but the long journeys, shopping, repairing clothes, cooking, mounting camp etc etc etc makes it hard work for men and women. I don't think the public in general understands how much effort and hard work a reenactment weekend is and most of the time without pay. You are lucky when the organization provides you with meals and powder.......... But we love it. 🙃
Could you please do women soldiers/warriors throughout history.
A small token of thanks, for removing historical bias from my mind.
That is very generous of you, thank you! Glad to be of service!
Have you looked into romantic friendshios between 18th century soldiers? It would be quite an interesting subject, given how differently ideals of masculinity were perceived and lived in that time. Thinking for example also how romantically many Patriot officers gushed over Major John André, and mourned his death. It would be a fascinating insight into how the needs for companionship and intimacy were dealt with for soldiers and officers who did not have their spouses close by.
Around 1 woman per 6-10 soldiers. So about one per squad(or whatever you want to call it), the lowest natural form of organization that continuously crops up in militaries throughout history. Roman legions would have a similar ratio of legionaires to indentured slaves/workers(not quite sure if they were slaves) to act as support personnel in a similar manner.
They were probably slaves if it was Ancient Rome.
I tend to focus on the 30 Years War where it seems that it had more sex work than perhaps the late 1700s had which you study more.
As for children, during the times when they were fortunate to not do that thankfully, they still could have gruesome lives. I remember about 15 years ago now, when I read a book series called The Magic Treehouse. Two kids, Jackie and Anne, about 7 and 8 or so whose age I was similar to back then, who go into many historical periods via a magic treehouse (go figure). One of them was the American Civil War. I didn´t understand why heatstroke was such a danger back then, but I do now. If one things about it, they go into some scenes of horrific wounds, during their time when they walk across a battlefield and some woman asks them to help take care of the wounded. They even tackle the issue of what happens when you had wounded on both sides, and the attempt at humanizing this issue. I don´t remember who won that battle of what ultimately happened in that story besides them coming back to the present, but you can just imagine how that can screw up a child in mere seconds, let alone hours or days they were there. I hope their parents were able to do something to help them understand or just to throw their arms around the two.
Imagine those children who, fair or foul, enlisted into military regiments themselves. Especially those who enlisted as bugle and drummer boys for regiments...
biology and our understanding of biology (the general lack of understanding) did not change between those two periods. Neither did christianity (a "sin" remained a "sin"). I don't think there was less or more sex work when we compare those 21 periods.
Great video sir. it was very informative.
It's like what me and the lads say: it's better to lay on the cold ground than to lay on the ground cold.
Something I really feel intrigued about British military regimental wives, was it possible for them to see combat directly or to participate in it? Something strange about the hispanic world is the somewhat common image in both popular culture and historical records of women soldiers. From cantineras in Chile, Rabonas in Bolivia and Peru, Soldaderas and Adelitas in Mexico, or even women Guerrilleras in Spain itself against Napoleonic troops in 1808. Women were not only serving as logistic aid corps, but sometimes as part of actual combat units. Several accounts, like that of General Andres Garcia Camba, in 1814 against the rebel indepentists in Cusco, noted how the rear of the army was assaulted, and the wives and daughters of soldiers would grab the closest musket they could find in the camp and fought and drove back the rebels. Even fighting hand to hand with bayonets fixed. Many being killed in the process. In Mexico, from the Independence in the 1820’s to the French-Mexican, and Mexican-American War you see similar accounts, women soldiers who actively participate in combat, following their husbands, their fathers, sometimes it’s even mothers following their sons.
Another interesting fact is how western armies saw this. It was deemed as a savage and barbarian trait, like amazons of old. The idea that the savage and backwards people of the spanish Americas, unlike the Anglo-Saxon and even French Ubermensch, would even allow women to carry arms, let alone fight alongside men. And the officer corps in many of these armies were strongly against them, but tolerated them as a necessary evil due to the lack of logistical infrastructure to replace them. Chile had to institutionalize them. Strip them of any possibility of bearing arms, issue them uniforms and regulations to keep them under control, as a military unit. Similar to what the British and French armies did. Although there are several accounts of Cantineras actually fighting. But in other places like Mexico, it was simply impossible to coerce them into not participating in combat. There is a gruesome account of the Mexican Revolution about how Pancho Villa saw combat agains an entirely or maybe mostly female guerrilla, and ended up slaughtering them after overrunning their position.
By the end of the 1800’s you’d even have women captains and leftenants. And the Spanish Americas had some of the first official women combat roles and officers as early as the mid 19th Century.
Great video, sir! It's too bad there are no (?) primary sources of women talking about their experiences
I think there are a lack of understanding how much work behind the scene needs to be done for every front line soldier. That goes historically as well as for modern armed forces.
Please visit Micahistory, it would mean a lot!
Wow, this gives more meaning to the song Bonnie Lass O Fyvie. I thought it was a just beautiful love song but this context makes the lyrics really bleed.
well the french especially after the revolution and napoleon certainly created a rather different system and intergrated them into a quasi military force complete with their own uniforms.
I'm about two blocks from the Mercer tree. History is crazy. You could do a whole years of videos just in New Jersey.
As an old Jersey Guy I can say they didn't call NJ "The Cockpit Of The Revolution" for nothing!
In fact, the area of NJ where I grew up, Bergen County, was the scene of some VERY vicious fighting between Tory and Patriot groups, to say nothing of Redcoats versus Continentals. An excellent book about that subject is "The Revolutionary War In The Hackensack Valley" by Adrien Lieby. It MIGHT still be available from the Bergen County Historical Society but I'm not sure about that, I've had my copy almost 40 years. It was in print for quite a few years.
Thank you very much, Brandon. This is a topic I was very curious about, and I was struggling to find answers.
also the Jacobites were right
Excellent! Fascinating! Touching! You didn't let me daydream>
Excellent video. Thanks for bringing light to an obscure part of history.
Any good information on female camp followers in the American army?
Amazing video. Your conclusions section is particularly insightful and meaningful. Thank you.
I mean hell, the 18th century wasnt Even a great time to ve a man, or......Alive 😂 let alone the added difficulties women faced on top of all that
It depended on who you were and where you lived. Here in the "colonies" a man with drive and ambition could make a pretty good life for himself, his wife and children. It wasn't easy of course, but if the 18th Century wasn't the best time to be alive it was far from the worst.
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 I mean that's true of almost any time in history....tho I'd pass the 1940s every time 😂
Yeah I was gonna say, honestly being in the American colonies in the 18th century (Depending on your personality and what colony you were in) would probably be one of the best eras in history to be alive in.
@@moritamikamikara3879 I mean in a way yeah but class privilege doesn't make medicine any better lol
Tbh I think Brandon here is a bit unfair towards sex workers around the military; while their job wasn't vital to its function per se, that doesn't mean they were all bad or disorderly people. However, I do agree that the point should be made about women in military having jobs other than "a prostitute". A very interesting and informative video!
For the prostitution thing, that's something that's written down as forbidden but then ignored as long as it's conducted correctly.
Recently found your channel Brandon excellent content! Would love to see you do something on the British legion or Banastre Tarleton like a character study or something would be cool, keep up the great work!
Great video
Thank you sir.
In the common day british millitary regiments provide homes for family's on the base
Huzzah, what a great vid, very informative
Genuinely nobody:
Guilty gear baiken: 0:59
Question: Do you have a video on women soldiers/sailors/pirates or is that in the works?
I noticed in the painting pictured at 2:40 a grenadier is giving a hand salute. I wonder when that type of salute became common in the British Army superceding the "compliment of the hat" with the left hand?
Maybe a hand salute started with the grenadiers as removing the mitre cap was impractical and then spread to the rest of the army from there?
It's a really interesting topic and it could absolutely be a video. But you've basically got it right- for most soldiers the custom was to remove the hat with whatever hand was further away from the officer, except when wearing a "Cap" which would have been cumbersome, when it was just touching one's hand to the hat. Cuthbertson has an entire section on "Rendering Honours" and how it should be done.
@@BrandonF Thanks! I'll have a look!
great video
It's funny but Napoleon, had that quiet of a mentality that wives should follow their husbands anywhere they go (at a point that he even suggest she follows him in prison if he is sentenced)...but never in the army for three reasons: 1. as you said, it's a dead weight (imagine the Russian campaign with the wives and children of the soldiers), 2. The men hated that and it would have been bad for basic camaradery between the soldiers and 3. Lastly...the French had a very vivid memory of a very old battle which happened more than a thousand years ago at Poitiers (732), where the Omeyades have been defeated and stopped in Europe, because they traveled with their wives and children and goods waiting in a back camp...which the duc of Aquitaines attacked. These are not just useless mouths, they are dead weight unabling you to send major counter offensives or fast and long moves, and they are weak points you have to defend offered to your ennenemies so...yeah, the men will do the cooking and wash their clothes themselves. As much as I know, the two types of women who followed the armies (French ones) were the "cantinières", (military cookers) under Napoleon and "femmes à soldats" ("soldiers women) who were...prostitutes.
This was really good. Wow
Such a good video bringing attention to a subject most would pass over! The paßage of history is everyones story
Top notch at usual.
One of the few things that Sharpe got right in terms of historical accuracy. I love the show, but it’s not exactly a documentary lol.
Wow. I mean, I knew this all was a thing, women being good industrious parts of the armies. But not nearly in this detail.
Thank you for the video. It's inspired me to make a few adjustments to my old world story my wife and I are working on. Especially since her character that she writes for was going to be joining a character I write for while they campaign in the Caribbean and eventually North America after the pair got married.
Will the story be published somewhere when you finish?
@@trevdestroyer8209 Hey there. We've actually got a few stories that we have been working on for some time. Old world (1640s), Zombie/Plague (Modern), and I started a sci-fi story recently (Thousand + years in the future).
The writing style doesn't lend itself to novel format. So it takes a long time to convert it over. Though I have noted just recently how a lot of stories, on UA-cam at least, are being released chapter by chapter. So you can get it sooner as it comes out rather than wait for a completed work.
Since you asked about it, would this be something you personally would be ok with seeing? Something like a chapter a week as it's written? Or would you prefer to wait (for admittedly an unknown time) for a completed book?
Edit: I'm kind of leaning toward the chapter a week (or whatever time frame is decided on) and release as I suspect it will help with my motivation and desire to write. Especially during periods where I'm wiped out from my day job. Lol
@@VlPER007 seeing chapter by chapter is alright with me
@@trevdestroyer8209 *Nods* Very well. I just started looking into this option. So I'll let ya know what we end up doing after I have a chance to go over it with my wife. 🙂 And thank you. I appreciate the interest!
@@VlPER007 and can you provide some brief synopsis on what the stories are about?
nice video, you always choose the most obscure topics somehow
Camp Fallower tradition carry over
Welcome back to me. Amazingly loverlooked element of military history.
"A guide as to how officers can get involved in their soldier's romantic lives."
Yeah my licentious brain went off on quite the tangent at that eyebrow wriggle.
I might have to pick up a copy, if you get my meaning.
Did woman get to watch the floggings?
I watched Simon's contribution and wondered where the rest were
Thank you for this, it is an important topic to cover.
Awesome work, thank you
Long live this sharp dressed man!
Thank you SO much for this amazing resource!
Meant to add...4x gt grandmother followed her Royal Artillery husband to Boston, and nursed him following his terrible injuries at Bunker Hill. Such a courageous woman, related to the Fairfaxes of Virginia, and by association, Washington himself. I have a horse in this race!
Well done. Well said
VERY WELL
Great video.
It seems like this basically did not happen in the United States very often. I know from books that in the British and French armies of the 19th century this was definitely a thing from the time of Napoleon to the Crimean War being the most famous examples.
Pretty good video overall, but semi disappointed by the conclusion of "individuals who served their country", and about respecting the soldiers of today, while it is important that veterans, just like all other peoples, should get sufficient care to maintain a healthy mental and physical well being, it should be important to not glamorize them, they invaded places, they may not of been directly responsible but they were (and modern soldiers mostly are spare some like the Ukrainian defenders) invaded places that would've done no harm to their country if left alone.
Thank you for a really interesting video. The last 50 odd minutes have flown by.
I am happy that a group of Historians gathered together to combat myths but weren't sometimes historians themselves guilty of creating Myths .as an example to illustrate more the Term Dark ages was coined by Historians largely in 16th and 19th century ,and then it has become wide spread and popular amongst non academics .and now the 21 century academics are angry and are disgusted , looking with disdain on illiterate/non academic people for using the term Dark ages the very same term and misconceptions that historians in the past helped to perpetuate.
Historians can be as trendy as high school kids, especially the ones who want to impress others in the faculty lounge rather than arrive at the truth, so try and get the big picture as best you can and don't trust anyone to paint it for you.
I'll tell you one thing though, and I've been studying history for almost 60 years, the old-timers were a LOT more sophisticated than moderns give them credit for! So keep that in mind.
historians have a tendency to be arrogant idiots who believe that because they know one History subject it somehow means they know all History. some examples are the stupid myths about armor weighing so much that you cannot move or swords being clubs because they are Essentially most of the time nerds that have no idea about warfare or the worst habit of shitty historians: using modern morality and customs to look down on the past. this ranges from feminists implying that men were all evil who enslaved all women and women being only pick me and weak or the stupid lengths historians pretend that humans didnt know any hygiene or that all people just drank alcohol because water wasnt clean. hell most of the time the vast amount of myths can be debunk by just common sense simply because our ancestors are still all humans not some weird aliens that were all dwarf size
:)
If only modern military dependents where so useful!
Men went army to die, women went army to live
Well there were plenty of cases of women dying in the army.
@@chelseashamim9148 ay and plenty cases of men make living in the army, I've just focused for this video
Its mentioned that women were forbidden from taking a supplemental job as firefighting, this would imply that it was at least not uncommon for a women to have this job is there any more information on this? it sounds very interesting.
Question: what protection did army wife's had. Both from other drunk men who have lost their regamental honor. But manly from an other victories enermy.
Women marrying man after man when their earlier husband died while in the military was not confined to European Armies. It also happened within the United States Army. Particularly during the late 1800's and the American Indian Wars. I have heard of one woman who married a soldier who subsequently died. She then remarried, up to six separate husbands. HOWEVER, when she herself finally died, it was discovered that she was actually male!
Not just in the military, but in North America from the 18th Century through the 19th and into the early 20th it wasn't unusual for a widowed woman, or man for that matter, to stay unattached for very long, and for practical reasons. Widowed mothers needed stepfathers for their children and widowed men needed stepmothers for theirs. Abraham Lincoln's father is a prime example. Davy Crockett married again after his wife died and married a widow with children, so the Crocketts had what we call now a blended family.
There was also the phenomenon of what I think was called the "frontier divorce." On the old frontier of the Appalachian Range husbands would go off on treks and never return without a word of their wherabouts or fate, so what was a woman to do? She often remarried an available man and the frontier preachers being very pragmatic men would ignore the irregularity and officiate the weddings. The marriage of Andrew Jackson and Rachel Robards is a great example of that although Rachel's husband eventually showed up again! Another story.
I'd hate to doubt you mah boi, but I'm really gonna need a source on that David, it just sounds too fantastical to me...
I would also like a source, because that sounds fascinating!
A soldier should still get permission from his CO to get married.
No mate, maybe centuries ago but certainly not nowadays. I've seen careers ended through soldiers being refused permission from their CO to soldiers just leaving so as not to demean themselves and their women by asking in the first place.
Good video 👍
@@Kmc-r7t guess i need to specify a joke.
@@khartog01thanks for clearing that up. 👍
@@Kmc-r7t not every joke lands.