Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs-A Short Incomplete "Brou-ha-ha" History Part 2
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Little did Mobile Fidelity realize that when it announced the coming One-Step release of Michael Jackson's "Thriller" that it would cause both worldwide excitement and force the admission that its "Ultra-Analog" mastering chain included a digital link. In this video TrackingAngle editor Michael Fremer discusses how he got drawn into the maelstrom and why he refused to promote the rumor until it was proven fact. He includes a few side roads to make it more interesting. And a commenter is correct: don't wear horizontal shirts! It's not a good look. He's not fat. Hit the button and subscribe to this UA-cam channel!
Glad this video wasn’t about how Michael Esposito wasn’t the right guy to interview MoFi guys. Fremer strengthened his ego overnight. Well done!
GET'M Mikey-go for the throat- Grrrr
Even an 8-track cartridge bought from a spinner rack at a Flying J truck stop in 1978 was ultimately "sourced from the original master tape".
A brilliant and fair video. This label and their parent company now need to get back consumer trust, because I don't think I will buy another product from Music Direct/MoFi until that happens in a meaningful way.
Could not agree more
The owner Jim Davis hoards copies #001 to #100 of every single MOFI release. That is why is is rare to come across LOW numbers. Items are not as rare as claimed. I worked there for many years.
@poetryonplastic Hey, Michael. FYI, I was your 40th like…lol 🥳 Seriously though, I’m totally with you regarding the Music Direct / MoFi thing, but I think it’ll take some time until they’re able to gain back the trust of their customers.
@mrsenk Yes they jack up the prices on Discogs /secondary markets with copies that they purposely hoarded for decades. Really silly for the owner to hold onto 100 copies of each title. Why not keep two or three for yourself?
@@adamlinder4939 honestly, I’d be more Pissed about that than the DSD-gate.
I was critical of you over the interview with 45rpm, but I really appreciated this one. Very helpful information - thank you!
I'm shocked that people are shocked that the Masters are DSD. Most masters done from like 1982 on were probably done on Digital Tape anyway. Too that, if there are any Magnetic Master Tapes that can still be played, they've already been copied to a digital master. Even if the Master is transferred to a DSD file, it's still the ORIGINAL MASTER. It's an exact copy of the analog tape but will allow Mo-Fi to be able to make many copies over and over, something they couldn't do with a dying role of decaying magnetic tape that's already half-past dead. To that, wasn't it Mo-Fi that damaged the Original Master Tape for TDSOTM back in the late 70's when they accidentally taped over it with their NEW master... Is this really that big of a deal? Was Mo-Fi really deceitful or did the consumer have an unrealistic expectation in the 21st century? I love SACD and Mo-Fi makes some killer SACD's, from the same source as their LP's but without the anomalies of Vinyl Records.
Sorry but much of what you’ve posted is simply not true. Digital recording did not become dominant for a decade after 1982. While most analog tapes have been digitized the tapes mostly still exist and most are playable.
And digitization is not transparent to the source. The best is close but…
If they were upfront about what they did none of this would have happened
Why they have to lie .t? If they Convert the analog master to DSD and then, from the DSD copy ;they can make vinyl with high resolution as the analogo . In my opinion ; Is very practical because you have to protect the original master for future generation . Daaaaa
I did not understand why the MFSL box should be so strongly avoided. What is wrong with it except of the white modern sleeves? By the way, it is pretty much clear reason for what they has done. The Beatles UK LP covers were designed using pictures of the group with too much retouch to it. As a result they had never been a real piece of art. So why bother keeping them?
The Beatles In Mono vinyl box set 2014 got a digital treatment as they mentioned in leaflet for Please Please Me. Thus, this is not an analog mastering at all. Don't be fooled by the name. All the vinyl purists have been exposed as a bunch of liars.
that ac/dc snippet was incredible
I'll try to put the track up from my turntable and see if AC/DC publisher leaves it up!
I'm shocked! Shocked to find out gambling has been going on in this casino! Round up the usual suspects!
I note a considerable collection of long playing recordings forming a backdrop to this you tube video.
MOFI only had to state back when the dsd source came into play that they will have to start using more analog to dsd mastering and that would have been transparent enough ...
Abbey Road were open from the start about their half-speed master LPs being from digital. Audiophiles bought them anyway, people loved the John Martyn 'Solid Air'. Pointless deception from MoFi, I believe that audiophiles who love the sound not the process are the silent majority.
I just played my original 80s pressing of "Thriller" and It does sound freakin' good.
I wonder how much better can the one step be? I'd rather get 3 "Tone Poets" for the same $$.
Mike said it’s amazing. 2 ‘ forward vocals
Thriller is the easiest record to find on the planet, but the new remastering could be even more thrilling. So, being an MFSL, I would expect that it would be.
Said no audiophile ever...
It will be better but the original is still quite impressive
I'd rather get 3 hot dogs than buy a mofi release.
the email from Mofi Customer service was sent to me. It was posted from the Steve Hoffman forum, but it's interesting that i've seen it posted a few places now on social media, but not a single person reached out to me to confirm it's real.
It came to me from someone I trust. Did anyone on SHF claim it was fake?
@@trackingangle929 we just believe everything we read on the internet now? How pro journalist! Someone i trust told me Mofi records were AAA.
MoFi used our passion for analog sound vinyl and took advantage of that to get our money.
I thank you for your videos about the MOFI issue.
The MOFI case is a mirror faced in front of the Audiophile community that reveals the replacement of the main goal of a common audiophile which is the desire for a maximum/best sound quality reproduction with a race after the isosteric hard to get more expensive all analogue process. This has occurred without us the community stop to ask ourself or even worse, when a digital step added to an audio process is ruled automatically to be bad for the whole cutting process even it enables a (no doubt about it) superior one step pressing. no one is evaluating the whole chain. the word digital has blocked the thinking process of the total result.
The question have to be asked why MOFI who undouble achieved a higher sound quality (as reported for the Abraxas release for example) had to be vague on the fact they are using a digital process in their updated sound reproduction process?
is it because they want to hide a fact they are selling a much easy to produce and inferior "CD on Vinyl" product (the statement is just for the sake of discussion) and continue collecting money with higher profit from the audiophile "suckers"?
or maybe is it because Audiophiles community, who their moto is judging a product sonic quality with their own ears will be too shocked to hear (Double meaning... 🙂 ) that digital process exists and add an advantage to the sound quality, in conflict with the community conception which automatically detach a "made from original master" when a step of a super high resolution digital copy is involved?
If MOFI would have used a 2nd generation analogue copy, done by MOFI from original master, and not a DSD process, would the Vinyl community have accepted this step because the All analogue purity has been maintained? we have to remember that MOFI have replace the "Father + Mother" steps with a 2nd generation copy so there is an important improvement added to the process together with that 2nd generation added step. Why nobody talks about the total results? why focus only on one (important) added step? why nobody evaluate the 2 choice between a DSD vs a 2nd generation Analogue copy which MOFI has done already for us?
So the vinyl community has to first identify if the latest MOFI "one step" process has a total improvement of sound or not, comparing to any process MOFI has presented over the years, and comparing with other companies audiophile releases, of course also with price tag comparison.
Last, I present you with the most shocking "Elephant in the room" which no one yet on all the MOFI videos so far has neglected to talk about:
In case MOFI "one step" process is found to be actually the best audio quality and efficient way to cut a vinyl from an original master then it means that within the chain of cutting process, The DSD step has the maximum and better sound quality source for the vinyl cut process, better than the vinyl product itself.
This has a huge impact on the vinyl industry, because the DSD (or other high res digital file format) can be sold and streamed with even a better quality than that of the best vinyl pressing there is.
This means that audiophile vinyl format becomes to be in the third place of the highest audio quality possible (the second place belongs to an exotic, expensive and very limited in quantities direct Reel to Reel studio quality copy of the original master Tape) and 1st audio quality possible to obtain at home would become to be a digital file.
This removes the carpet under the whole vinyl industry, or at least the audiophile vinyl industry, and this is in my opinion the real reason for MOFI ambiguity on the cutting process.
As a non-audiophile who is interested more in the consumer advocacy angle of this, I was wondering why a company might cut its own throat this way. Your comments have clarified that for me. It seems to have a bit of a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” rationale behind it, and they miscalculated which outcome would be worse-being fully transparent, or ceding a perceived competitive advantage. I suppose they calculated that they couldn’t have it both ways, so decided to hide certain things, which seems a remarkably common (albeit shady) practice in the business world today. They do need a “crisis management” response to this, but that must embrace transparency going forward. It seems to me they could still operate effectively in both the digital and analog audiophile realms in the future as long as they are transparent, because regardless of what “objectively” sounds best-to which there will never be an answer that satisfies all listeners-no one really wants to think they are being bullshitted.
Michael, MoFi engineer Shawn K. Britton is on video saying they use an all analog mastering chain. In 2017. Clearly lying!
Michael Fremer i just hope Donald trump goes to prison before the Mofi engineers.
It is more urgent that Biden goes to the nursing home.
ooof would’ve loved to have heard that ac/dc
Hello Miichael . Don't even listen to negative comments . You are very knowledgeable and ahould be respected as a not only an enbassador of vynil. Congrats
I fainted when I heard that. My wife had to throw a bucket of water in my face and kicked me in the ribs to revive me.
Charging exhorbitant analog prices for audio version of photoshop...nice. It'd be fine if they just said this is REALLY good digital capture.
Thank you, but now.... i got a headache
Me too! Trust me…
Well, no matter what you think about this guy, at least he didn't return from Munich declaring "peace for our time".
Audiophiles will still buy it.... Because they are COLLECTORS! They have to have it! They have to have everything... even if it sounds bad!
So freaking true!
Well, collectors will buy it. Not all audiophiles are collectors!
@@trackingangle929 i think there’s a fine line. Considering which ever the prioritize. Music over collectibility and Vice verse.
@@trackingangle929 Thanks for responding Michael. True, but we should be able to buy all editions at hi end quality. Most people running a turntable these days are hi-fi buffs and Audiophiles. People that want quality. It's only a small minority that are running Crowley cruisers and tube suitcase gramophone players. Previously, the industry toned down the fidelity to suit these people as they were the majority (i.e Led ZepII / Bob Ludwing story). But in todays world, the masses are on Spotify using their smart phones and ear buds or at best streaming with a PC and a DAC. The industry can no longer say "we don't want to make um too good because our customers don't have good kit".
All re-releases should be as good, if not better than the first pressing. After all, technology is supposed to move forward. If they want to run mono's and gatefold's and coloured vinyls for collectors, fine. But give the grass roots the very best as they are the ones loyal to the game and arguably are the customer base. Making a two tear sales system means EVERYONE is just being played and it will result in turning people away from vinyl.
What happened to the customer is always right?
Well I am not a psychic, but I suspect there will be a class action, probably already is one ready to be filed ATM. And like it or not, you may end up as an expert witness again. I can easily imagine the mobile fidelity response team is putting the brakes on the needed response to anticipate the suit(s) that are almost certain to follow.
So we're all listening to digital on vinyl! How do you like them apples? I'll be no good dadgummed!
Hi Michael, please don’t cover up for the MoFi engineers. Shawn Britton claimed on video in 2017 that they’re records were ALL ANALOG. It’s not just the marketing people that lied.
This was a fair video Michael. I see now why you did what you did. You're not the culprit here. MoFi is.
What you are getting is a 4xDSD sound. Whatever that is.
You get one opportunity to be honest with people. Once trust is broken, you can’t get it back, for it’s gone. I’ll only ever buy used records prior to 2000 ever again. These current owners are flim flam artists.
Though I don't want to disparage the engineers Shawn Britton did lie himself, and he said one of the most egregiously blatant lies.
At a 2017 promotional event for the miles davis releases he said infront of a massive miles davis mofi poster "people ask us if our entire mastering chain is all analog. It is." But then in Mike's video he says the miles titles were from DSD. This video is on UA-cam so I'm sure you've seen it by now.
So this isn't just marketing it's the whole place, top to bottom deceit. Hell maybe music direct told them to only use DSD to cut on costs. Maybe they damaged another tape like they supposedly did with DSOTM so lost their in house priveleges. Because if they believed DSD was better as masterers theyd be championing it, theyd be showing comparison videos and spinning it as better than analog. Not calling it gain 2 analog and avoiding the dreaded D word in all promo materials. Either way it seems like corporate told him to say that since he looked insanely uncomfortable/fidgety, even worse than the ingroove video, by body language alone it was an overt lie.
I have over 20 mofis, I was never picky with analog vs digital. One of my favorite records is my Japan CBS masteround wish you were here half speed by Stan Ricker. I absolutely love the digital AP pet sounds and smiley smile. But I bought mofi for the provenance of analog and the inherant limited nature of it. Not just some pressing of a file that can be made 10000000x. I thought it was like a time capsule to the true mastertape not a digital transfer. I still love my mofis but seriously I cant support a company that lies to my face, attempts to deceive and only cares about cash. Sure companies are for profit but this is gross and id rather support enthusiasts like Chad at acoustic sounds, or Sean at intervention or the amazing Brad at Sam records. They actually care about their product and their consumers. The fact that they feel comfortable deceiving people like this is genuinely disturbing. I'm not too suprised though since their customer service has been appalling. I buy 2 of the strictly limited pressings I get because they always send me seem splits and refuse to replace them. It's either pay shipping to have nothing or stick with an overpriced damaged record. And I guarantee they even send them out seem split because I'll get the same amount of AP titles and other brands and while 1/10 of worst packaged records may be a seem split almost half of my mofis were. They lie about strictly limited by making a supervinyl version. So not only is the new SV one better the old ones lose their value as youre told its limited. The customer service is often rude and uncaring. Then they stopped fulfilling my pre-orders like tigerlily was on their site twice past 2 weeks but they didn't fufill my order. Same with workingmens dead. They're the same company and yet they won't fufill MD backorders while putting 1000+ on mofi.com just so they can charge $10 more for shipping and not have to fufill old $50 orders. While AP is unbelievably kind. They answer every question I have, they're always respectful. Best is they replace damaged disc's no questions asked. I have 2 strange days because one of mine had bad surface noise at the begining of people are strange so they sent me both disc's. The next week they sent me a soft parade disc because it had a big deep scratch from production. They didn't even request pictures or the old copies. I haven't even had a seem split from them but I'm sure they'd send me a jacket asap if I did. Caring for customers goes a long way and so I try to buy everything I get from acoustic sounds.
Also so many mofis fall flat. Their big pink release is excellent due to the original having low-end lopped off for the crappy portable turntables kids had. But their the band self titled is poor and really does sound sterile and digital. A VvG $20 RL crushes it. My vg+ LA RL is some of the best audiophile music I've ever heard. Truly all analog and crushes alot of my mofis. Alot of surface noise but the music is just so good, yet they made it sound so much worse. Their folk singer onestep is a joke compared to the AP. The $35 reprise clapton unplugged crushed the onestep. Their pearl onestep is worse than their regular one like with tapestry which is weird. Their KOB is laughable next to the UHQR and to me it sounds rather digital. The kevin gray electric wareior beats the mofi. I've always noticed they're very hit or miss which may be due to the digital transfer. Usually if there's an audiophile record to compare the mofi loses and many times they lose to the first pressings which often are far cheaper in price.
However some of my mofis are utterly stunning. Some of my favorites include vanilla fudge, truth, iron butterfly supervinyl(tho wish they added the reverb back), dire straits s/t, train(as a 30 year old it's super nostalgic for me), volunteers/surrealistic pillow, croaby supervinyl. Before the flood is killer and is far better than the original. Allison krause is great too and the only way to get it(wish i had live). Their Weezer Pinkerton is great too.
Also most of their dylans are great though for many I prefer the mono box which always concerned me since the mono box is on regular vinyl, mass produced, and 33rpm yet the mofis on high grade vinyl, pressed at rti, 45rpm, and limited, way more expensive and aren't much better if in some ways worse. I wouldn't be suprised if some of my better sounding ones are the few analog ones they did. My system is pretty basic, upgraded thorens td160, at 540ml, pioneer sx950, and Polk monitor 7bs. It produces an awesome vintage sound but even on a $2000 setup I can hear a vast difference in quality between many mofis and many APs. I've yet to hear a mofi that improved the sound so much as AP did with their doors and a ton of their beach boys releases. The onesteps dont even come close to the uhqrs. I still wish i had bridge over trouble water but i heard some say the classic is just as good if not better. Ive heard mixed things about fragile as well. I always assumed this quality discrepancy was mastering choices but now it seems it may not be, especially with the talent they employ.
One thing that's also disturbing is that it seems like they even made intentional decisions to leave imperfections to deceive people into believing it's analog. Like for example there's one song on the Crosby supervinyl with a ton of distortion in the tape. It's worse on the mofi over other copies due to the supervinyl clarity. This distortion could have been fixed to some degree digitally yet they left it. Same with parts of truth. Or they could have digitally added the reverb back into the iron butterfly yet kept it as it is on the mastertape. Layla could have been cleaned up a ton. So they weren't even making the best product they could digitally due to trying to pretend it's analog. It seems they maliciously decided against cleaning up tape issues to deceive people into thinking its analog. My god they keep tape hiss on many releases. Why even use digital unless you're going to take advantage of it? The AP digital beach boys are often reveletory and super clean. These could have all sounded as stellar as the stero pet sounds AP but they wanted to make people believe it's analog. They're insanely sneaky.
As a 90s kid I couldnt turn down getting the two dido albums on classic records when they were cheap. They are just simple sterile dated electronic pop songs. However the sound off those is insane. Her voice is right there and so damn real. There's so much power and clarity too it. It literally sent chills down my spine it was so clear. It's shocking how well they did that album. And that was like almost 20 years old and still no mofi has given me such a reaction. Often they just sound too sterile, hell they're more sterile than the early 00s pop music on the classic records. My stairway test pressing destroy most of my mofis and it's not even close. My Diana krall xmas songs is up there too. And theyre all 33rpm except the test pressing to mofis 45s. Hell my org live in Paris 45 crushes most of my mofis in terms of sound quality. Shit I got this live jazz record on rsd understanding by Roy brooks by reel to reel and honestly it's better than alot ot mofis. In hindsight mofi is not as amazing as its reputation was. I always assumed it was mastering choices but it may be due to DSD.
The only good thing about music direct is they screwed up and gave me $250($150 retail) worth of records for free by mistake. I was gonna tell them but decided to sell them on discogs to recoup some of what they stole from me. Their standards of behavior is genuinely disturbing and I hope they get sued since this behavior shouldn't be acceptable in vinyl. You can't lie about car specs or food ingrediants. If you sell a print as a painting or a 3rd state butcher as a 1st, you'll be in big trouble, even if it looks the same its not the same. So why can vinyl lie like this? Luxury product or not it deceptive false advertising and shows how little they care about vinyl. It's just money for them.
I'm happy this happened now as they sink millions into their pressing plant. I hope karma hits them hard and they end up running at 10% capacity or don't recoup losses. Screw them.
That sound you hear in the distance is Mofi lp prices crashing on discogs.
I saw the MoFi ad / headline with Bernie Grundman
It lasted under 10 minutes, immediately seen, possibly tagged/ copied on Steve Hoffman Forums
Man if there’s a screen grab I’d love to have it!!!
Apparently, next week they will start giving out all the processes for every album going back to the 80's.
Hi Michel, thanks so much for all your efforts. Mofi must be transparent, and do things the Kevin Gray, Bernie Grundman and all the others are doing this. Be honest is really what we need, and not dirty capitalism. Thanks
Hey Mikey, your Watergate comment reminds me of anther: "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive..." I believe they have released a list of provenance for the albums...
That's the problem, people spending lots of money 💰 thinking their getting all analogue chain! Sometimes digital is necessary , I get it! And it can sound really good (although still not as good as tape imho), but when your charging a premium it's best to be upfront! And please put the blame where it belongs, to the guys in the front office (PR ect.)!
Thank you for clarifying your stance and back story.
Michael you are the best…..😊We want transparentsy 😅
Have a good day 👍
-Thomas
I bought a series of Billy Joel albums from them and o feel cheated, if I wanted something from a digital master I’d buy a CD.
One thing I don't understand that you might clarify: if mofi uses digitisation what is the point in buying vinyl? Why not just listen to the mofi digitised file via a mainstream format. What does the whole expensive vinyl manufacturing chain add to the music if the master is not analogue? Isn't this why people are upset? Your contention has been that analogue is better than digital, but it seems now you are there are caveats, saying that is frequently impractical and sometimes inferior, with analogue being on balance better in, buy difficult to achieve ideal circumstances.
Michael, I loved the #gofundme idea but thinking a bit further about this I guess that we would pay for it anyway. Imagine if they released BOTH versions (cut from a tape transfer and from a digital transfer). We would go crazy to buy both versions of each release because that’s what we do… We would spend endless hours discussing each version and each review. We would agree and disagree with your thoughts and some would say how they got digital wrong when analog sounded better, while others would say how they had some issue with their Studer when the DSD killed the analog version. Its a win-win for everybody including MoFi because they would make even more money with full disclosure and transparency. I better start saving because now there’ll be not only mono and stereo but also digital and analog 😂
they have enough money to pay for analogue tape v digital comparison lol
we’ve given them enough money
Great video, thanks! This is the way to do it, and show it: ua-cam.com/video/1051WR1uEhU/v-deo.html. So glad I’ve got it, especially as comfort in this debacle…😎👍
Two turntables and no microphone.
Unbelievable windbag. Am I going to be like this when I'm 75?
Why doesn’t someone get a comment from Bernie with regards to cutting the MJ release
If it sounds good, it is good. I hope there aren't any class action lawsuits. That would result in lawyers becoming rich and consumers getting a $10 discount and bankrupt MoFi due to legal fees.
Class action suits are among the biggest scams ever. Started out with a purpose but then….bottom dwellers took over.
They need to go bankrupt.
@@borisspantic1333 They are nowhere near bankrupt, not by a long shot.
@@borisspantic1333 I don't want people to lose their livelihoods over this. If they go bankrupt, it just means less choices for consumers and less records.
20,000 copies of Miles Davis “Kind of Blue” UHQR ALL ANALOG???
I have QUESTIONS!
Great video. I am learning so much as always. Will Mobile Fidelity Vinyl price in the future change? I'm guessing it was easier to provide maximum prices when the public was under the belief that these recordings were processed a certain way, but now that the public knows better and as part of Mobile Fidelity possible image cleaan up, I was just curious as to what their price points will be in the future.
I'm a vinyl nerd, but will be considering more SACD products.
Most manufacturers regard honesty as a liability rather than an asset. In many cases, that is to their advantage.
Why would anyone even want another copy of Thriller? Yee Gads. Grown men obsessing over copies of Thriller?
It's art. And no one is, or should be the arbiter of taste. And the only reason master tapes are worth money is because people want to hear them. The Mona Lisa is hanging in the Louvre for all to see. It's not wrapped in cotton wool tucked away in some basement while a print hangs on display. Those tapes will die someday... so we need as many vinyl discs cut from them and in circulation as possible. The time to start using digital copies is when they are so desegregated that they are unplayable.... and then we can do back to the 2" multitrack copies and mix new masters.
@@janedoe6350 Exactly...Like the Beatles Mono tapes. What are they "saving" them for? Someday they'll be useless so why not do another run of the Mono albums? A mystery to me.
That album was a kiddie show when I was in college
That was decades ago
They picked the wrong album. There are a few songs on Off the Wall that are timeless and redeeming imho.
Because Eddie Van Halen's solo on Beat it is worth it.
@@EddieJazzFan George Martin (RIP), Apple and Abbey Road have said that The Beatles master tapes are "the holy grail." They've been protecting the integrity of those masters for awhile now.
“The Cover Up is Always Worse Than The Crime” is 100% true!
the mastering engineers at mofi have been tone deaf for along time, im afraid, they have not made a decent sounding record in years
this is more involved than the JFK assassination.
Because 4xDSD has such incredibly exponentially greater & deeper resolution than 30ips analog tape, MoFi appears to be referring to the 4xDSD as “The Original Master”.
Well, by definition the transfer can't yield higher resolution than the source.
@@trackingangle929 Very true as that would be tantamount to 110% efficiency or better. But carefully transferring 30ips to 4xDSD could be analogous to carefully transferring liquid from a pint sized container to a really high quality quart sized container. MoFi has standardized on 4xDSD, effectively telling us that is the best most transparent format available today for *their* Masters.
@@DelmarToad It cannot excede the resolution of the source & furthermore analogue represents infinity (as in nature) which can never be achieved in the digital realm.
It would be like very carefully transferring liquid from a pint sized container into a really fancy high quality quart sized container. You would expect to be able to fully contain & retain everything that was in the original source container.
Their wording is that they performed the transfer and tape alignment from the master tapes themselves, on their machines, but to DSD, and not straight to the cutting lathe. Their SACD releases are correct when they say it is mastered from the original tape, but the vinyl is cut from those same files.
I am not, and never have been, an audiophile. I do appreciate great-sounding records, and I know what sounds good to me personally. I’m interested in this discussion more from a business/marketing/corporate transparency/consumer advocacy angle in general, and I think you and others are right to characterize it as a “disaster,” not just for MoFi’s image and reputation, but for the ripple effects that will carry through this portion of the industry, including with record retailers and resellers. It’s always infuriating to know that you’ve been lied to. From what I’ve heard from this video and a few other voices on UA-cam, I think Mr. Fremer laid out the history and facts in a fair and understandable way, even for someone like me who’s not super knowledgeable about the audiophile community.
So that is mr fremer excusing for not been able to tell the dif between analog and digital
No. That's not fair. Most of the time I can tell especially if a PCM file. Here, we are talking about DSD and 4X DSD. Far higher resolution and a smoother sound. I trusted Mo-Fi about using analog so when I heard something I didn't like i assumed it was something else other than analog vs. digital. If you can, compare the One-Step "Couldn't Stand the Weather" (SRV) with the one Analogue Productions released from the original master tape cut at Sterling Sound. You'd hear "it".
@@trackingangle929 in one of steve guttenberg vlogs he stated that you find a way to take your music on the go by recording your vinyl's on an dsd portable recorder; but one day you realized how much do you loose from music that way. if you realized that, why you can't realized the way around? and by the way, on another topic, dsd allegedly can't be mastered as digital file, what you record as file stays that way...but, paul from psaudio said about transfering dsd to dxd (which by the way is a pcm file, which every audiophile hates :), mastered the dxd file and than reconverting to dsd-sacd...so: is dsd so pure? (i can't show you now, but i made some calculations and dsd files starting with 2.8mhz fits poerfectly into 32bit at 88.2khz pcm, so ultimattly dsd is pcm at high rates)...a little snake oil here?
...excuse my enghlish but i'm not a native speaker
@@cataclem28 Was Steve Guttenberg talking about me? Because that's not true about me at all. I digitize my vinyl for portable use at 96/24.
@@trackingangle929 i will search the video...but it was old about 2-3 years perhaps
It's amazing that some people think there could be lawsuits over this.
BAILIFF: Do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
MOFI: Uhh. Yes. We brought some records
JUDGE: Play the one with the red cover.
4 minutes later...
JUDGE: I didn't realize they still made records; and they sound way way better than I remember too. I don't hear any problem. Case dismissed...Bang.
There's gotta be a class action lawsuit. They lied and got over on a lot of people. No way they get out clean from this.
Mike Esposito is a legend!!!
Great video Michael! I was never a big fan of Mofi I like seeking out older copy’s that’s just me. But yes they need to be truthful about there source of master tapes or DSD that’s it!
Two things have stood out to me in this whole mofi debacle. Mofi are liars and fremer couldn't tell the difference between analog and digital.
99.9% of the time people talk about "digital" audio they aren't talking about DSD, which is a special case and fundamentally different in how it works. It does actually sound like analog where PCM does not.
the shirt is very unfortunate
Great videos Mike, as always.
Best sounding record in my collection = Mofi's Miles In The Sky.
Worst sounding record in my collection = Bundles by Soft Machine, an all-analogue recording pressed in 1975.
Too much prejudice against digital audio, which is probably why Mofi haven't been transparent about what they're doing.
u just gotta ❤️ this!
✌️❤️🇩🇰
We need a new version of the spars codes
It’s Subway tuna all over again.
What ACDC song was that?
I really don't care mark the album correctly, some digital, no digital and move on.
I do care, but I'm okay with your position here.
Sticking it to the MAN .
I know the doors boxsets have the plangent work. And I think its a great way to go w digital.
The Doors box set digital/Plangent does sound great as does the all analog from AP. Different but equally great but best of all you know what you are getting.
Thank you for your video. I would like to focus on the old vs the new Mofi cut processes and its impact on vinyl comunity.
We all agree that a Mofi "original master recording" is and should be a process where MOFI gets its hands on the original master, not on an unknown copy of that master. The DSD MOFI which is using is an added, new step, within the MOFI cutting process of Original Master Tape system. The DSD copy is then becomes a (ultra hi res digital) second generation source within the Mofi cutting process. should that be the only modification for Mofi cutting process than yes, it would be a degraded Vinyl cut process comparing with MOFI original Legacy cutting system.
However, Mofi takes advantage on this added step to actually reduce the total number of degradating copying steps from the whole cutting process as per the following:
1) Original Mofi ( and other companies) AAA Process steps are:
Step 1: master tape to lacquer (a 2nd generation analogue mechanical copy of the master is generated into the laquer)
Step 2: lacquer to Father stamper (a 3rd Generation analoge mechanical copy is generated )
Step 3: Father Stamper is copied to be Mother mold (a 4th generation analoge copy is generated)
Step 4: a Stamper is copied from mother (a 5th Generation mechanical analoge)
Step 5: Vinyl Stamping (a 6th generation final analoge copy is pressed on vinyl)
to summarize AAA process: A vinyl recording is the 6th analoge generation copy of the original master tape
2) MOFI "1 step process" comprise of the following steps:
Step 1: Master Tape to DSD (a 2nd generation Dsd version of original master is created)
Step 2: DSD to Lacquer (a 3rd mechanical analoge Generation)
Step 3: Lacquer to Stamper (a 4th analoge Generation)
Step 4: Vinyl Stamping (a final 5th generation which contains only 4th analoge generations copy of the master )
To summarize: MOFI single step process results in a 5 generation copy of original master recording rwhere 2 analogue mechanical copies of the sound are replaced by a single DSD copy . DSD copy of original master is to my understanding a much closer to original master quality (if not identical) than to any 2nd generation analogue copy alternatives availabe.
1) This is to my opinion a significant over all advantage to the cutting process
2) The Elephant in the room: The DSD step which contains a 2nd generation copy of original master is by definition a supirior version in compare witg the vinyl outcome which is a 5th ( practically 4th) generation copy of the original master tape.
This means that the best posible reproduction quality can be obtain by a direct use of the DSD via streaming or a SACD platformd.
Thanks and best regards
No, the EITR is, not informing people when you’re not using Analog, but instead digital.
Yes but…. If it’s DSD then it’s best to just sell DSD files and not degrade the audio with the record making process you described.
@@mikepapas9395
You are correct, this is what I am reffering to as "the elephant in the room".
However, I am not sure to how much the rights owners of original masters are willing to let a 1÷1 copy of their master to circulate freely within the internet.
On my point of view I would be happy to have a 96/24 resolution of original master than any vinyl copy of that master. But I would prefer a proven great vinyl press copy of that master rather than any best quality cd copy of that master.
This topic is better than tv. Great job Fremer!
Man when you were a DJ you looked more like Howard Stern than he did!
I was thrown off that station twice for "inventing Howard Stern".....but that's another story...for another time.
Talk about a Non Fungible Token!
They don't "remember" what sources are what on each record because they need more "time" to massage the corporate PR weasel speak. Better believe they have a log sheet somewhere of what is what.
They absolutely have logs. That I can tell you, as orange man used to say.
thank you
Today picked up an US pressing on mercury records from 1950's Its "Buck Ram & his Orchestra" Manager of the Platters , case in point, 1/2 the back of the Lp describes the recording equipment even down to the Type of Resistors used in the Mixing console ! I laughed at the detail , guess they were Honest.
A bit like finding a packet of condoms in the wife's car. Not that I did.
Depends on in whose wife’s car you find them in!👀
@@trackingangle929 I knew it! She's crazy about your videos. So am I!
For my personal opinion, MOFI is not professional in mastering; the just professional add the EQ by boost the bass and treble. Surprise noted majority consumer favors this type of sound. Mastering engineers such as Bernie Grudman, Bob Ludwig, Kevin Gray and etc. did not significant added EQ during their mastering process. They try to keep the sound close to original master tapes as possible. Many of MOFI LP sounds not natural for me, it sound just like add equalizer in the system. When the bass boosted it’s as well cause the vocal sound thick or bold.
Ha, I didn't know Michael Ludwigs was involved in helping deflect VWgate! I'm sure that was a healthy contract to secure! LOL. Good video Michael.
Perfection is not what makes music enjoyable..the mistakes and missteps are what makes them great..analog is how are brains were trained..digital seems too mechanical..but we'll take what they put out...
They are full of it, to my ears the original dire straits first pressings sound substantially better than the 45 RPMs they recently released. I couldn't understand why until now but it is what it is. How do I get a refund?
That’s what I said!
The Michael Ludwig Chad Kassem video stream was FANTASTIC!! 45RPM Mike is really becoming a fantastic resource for analog/vinyl info.
Michael, I have always admired your honesty and integrity. Has any progress been made regarding the DSD vs. master tape comparison you spoke of?
So is the mono Dylan box from digital files? Thought that set was cut from analog.
oh boy. ....... yes, i saw/heard the past few days the MOFI stories ....... and i do not reallllllly know these big differences in the " reissue" sounds, as i am born 1967 and play jazz piano and bought LP´s .... and tried to stick with original first pressing for about 90 % of my 2000 jazz LP´s ..... and the other stuff which is impossible to get ( like kind of blue or many of the 1000 dollar and more blue notes ) i have on CD. beside new artists in the 90´s i bought on CD. ........ so i have not one MOFI LP ! ........ but yes, i like to know when i spend 100-200-300 euro on a first pressing, that it IS that. and not a 70´s reissue with a not good pressing or sound. ....... so i guess it makes sense to know if something is analog or ... digital involved. just because it is nice to have the real infos. AND if i myself only listen to my first pressings, other people will say they not sound as good as a TONE POET etc ..... but well ..... all personal choices. so ..... i like michael fremer a lot in the past years. enjoy his humor and energy and passion. i support his new channel and ...... wish him all the best 4 thinx 2 come ...... thank you ! andreas in berlin/germany
I got the impression they do have data on how they did the older stuff. I'm thinking it's just not in computer data base.
MFSL had better have their s--t together with Thriller, regardless of how they do it. There are certain original pressings (I have one) that are spectacular, which I will be comparing it to. Also, it is not likely that MFSL has actually used the real original master to reproduce records. They make a production master from the original master and use that in almost all cases. Keep up the good work Mike.
19:50 exactly! Can you imagine the fun to be had in comparing the Mofi AAA Bitches Brew to a Mofi One-Step Bitches Brew!!
The less than than half truths in their labeling leaves a sour taste. Like many, I do feel Mo-Fi should own up and give you what you pay for, without any games. However, I do see this as a tempest in a teapot. Not sure how you can get an all AAA recording from a recent master that was originally recorded on DAT or some other digital media. Nor do I have a problem them cleaning up a problematic recordings within the digital domain. For me, if the release sounds good, that is the crux of what I am paying for in the first place.
Michael, the Grateful Dead use this process for their vault reissues.
Mr. Pete------>
aging hippie
I cancelled my order for Thriller - if it is DSD i will not pay 145€ - will get it on SACD instead.
If you intend to review records on your new website, I would like to see - RIGHT AT THE TOP - by the sound quality score and music quality score - whether the master is analog or digital. DON'T BURY IT IN THE BODY OF THE REVIEW. Make it conspicuous so any "quick clicker" can see it plain as day.
If the label is not forthcoming, it should be listed as "unknown". That should go for every release on every label. Maybe that will light a fire under the a$$es of these labels to be more transparent. If the label gives you a dodgy, weaselly response, then the onus should be on the label to clarify and back up their claims with proof. No more games, just the facts.
The thing I don't relate to with audiophiles is I think it's a little crazy to have the desire to pay to hear, as Fremer suggests at the end, the difference between using a DSD step and not using it. I will concede that on a very high-quality system you *might* hear a *small* difference, but I could really care less (this is all assuming I'm not paying over say $40 for either product at the end of the day btw).