The fact that Wei Wuxian just stood there and took everything that Jiang Cheng was saying, not once defending himself. To the point where it started to anger Lan Wangji which lead him to protect the man that he loved by making Jiang Cheng shut up
Both Lan Zhan and Wei Ying only speak up in defense of the other. Truly us against the world trope for most of the anime, expertly showcased. Lan Zhan spends most of seasons 2 and 3 protecting Wei Ying, be it from physical or verbal attacks. Such a really well written relationship
I understand why WWX couldn’t say anything. Because what JC said is true. WWX knows what he did deeply hurt JC, Shijie and the whole Family. But the difference between him and JC is that he accepted it and moved on, but JC couldn’t.
@@qiwang7686 o If one never gets the chance to express the hurt to the person who hurt them either by words, actions or someone else doing it for them like wei did (others also marked his pain as valid, even the Jiangs father acknowledged wei)Wei. Then one can't move on... it becomes venomous. Even in this scene no one acknowledges Jiangs feelings, wei could have said one word but instead let's others shut Jiangs feelings(words) instead. Sometimes it's better to just listen.
@@mommabutterfly496 honestly your right Jiang cheng felt betrayed and honestly you can’t blame him. He begged wwx to come home multiple time and he didn’t but you also can’t blame wwx either.. I just feel like wwx should have said something to show him accepting and understanding jiang cheng feelings
“ Did you know that you would never have been able to surpass him?” I feel this was one of the reasons Jiang Chen grew to be so hostile to Wei Ying, he knew this.
Yes, jealousy 😊, it's actually one of the biggest reason why friendships can break easily 💔. If anyone noticed, he at last admitted it by saying, "That I deserve to live in your shadows, blinded by your light?!" That's actually the real starter of his hatred towards WWX. We all can see a lil bit of his jealousies during the flashbacks even before the bad Wens tragedy. We do not need the bad Wens to do anything, he himself will actually snapped out to WWX even if the bad Wens were not involved. For example: Su She who's jealous of LWJ, what he did? Same things with a different contexts.
Which is fair. I suppose because it reflects a reality of life. Some people are naturally better at things, even if other work harder. I haven't watched the show in its entirety so I don't know about this accuratey. However, my take is that he's worked hard for his abilities. Maybe just as hard as WWX. However, he still can't beat him in anything. Think about it, and to have him go out and goof off all day? You work so hard, and this person gets to have fun all day. That must be unbearable. Of course the solution is to understand that competition isn't everything and they grew up together but it's still understandable. It was worsen by the nudging of his mother. Another common reality for parents to nudge for their children to be the best.
@@halfway7690 if you mean nudge by emotionally poisoning him that his father hates him because he hates her. (Neither which is true) and the fact his dad is a bit of a coward in running away from his personal problems instead of confronting them. Though that is more to do with the time period expectations of men. They deal with it by ignoring it and not talking
This novel in all it's various incarnations is a masterful web of complex characters. Reading everyone's comments about Jiang Cheng has been very interesting; I see that he's not emotionally mature - still needy for external validations even after so many years. I also see the youth who was deeply hurt that his closest confidant/brother chose outsiders over him, but his pride prevented him from admitting it and he only focused on the impact to his family.
The realistic thing about MDZS is how you are only expected to be emotionally mature if you don't have the privilege of the gentry. Jiang Wanyin got away with being a manchild torturing and killing people and neglecting his constituents because he has money, power, and influence. Meanwhile the Wen siblings and Wei Wuxian are expected to keep a level head and think about everyone's wellbeing even while they are literally starving and hunted like dogs. People jeer at WWX and WN losing control even when they are cornered. The truth is when you don't have privilege, you're just supposed to take everything directed t you and not complain to be "mature" while rich people get excused for atrocities by saying "Oh he was deeply hurt as a youth".
@@Mina-wb1dz oh, I agree with that! It's obvious with NMJ's conflict with JGY. Nothing excuses JGY, but the standards the rich, strong, influential NMJ initially set for him were pretty vexing for me, TBH. NMJ would never tolerate being disrespected like that, but JGY is just supposed to take it quietly, be nice and hope the situation magically fixes itself. Eyerolled at that.
@@Mina-wb1dzYou are so right. The rich have "quirks" that you just have to nod and accept. Like JGS' promiscuity or NMJ black and white world view to JW torture spree. But the moment a commoner thought or did any of these things you know they would be quickly denounced and killed for it.
He loves him so much. There is no argument about it. But his self esteem is so fickle to the point it eventually led the doom to those who are closest to him. I think this is where him and lan zhan differ. He never gave a fuck since the beginning. Lan Zhan is so strong and so vulnerable at the same time.
I believe JC did see WWX as a brother in the past, but that's also because JYL is there to glue them together. after JYL's death, the originally frail relationship between JC & WWX eventually broke. JC had always trusted in the promise WWX give him, but not WWX himself. That's a shame, really... they were such good brothers in the past...
@@julycat2650 the very last chapter. Wei Ying and Lan Zhan are in Yungmeng. It's been a while since I've read the novel, I think Wei Ying was at least highly discouraged from ever going back. So them being there implies that Jiang Cheng allowed him to return.
The only thing I wished in this story was for WWX to stop blaming himself for everything. Sometimes you have to stand up for yourself against the people you love. And that's the best for you and him too. It's not a sin.
Truly pitied the guy. He could have been such an amzing person. Too bad his mother messed him up. Continuously comparing them, using the both of them to vent her jealousy and making him too prideful. His father could have tried harder too but he didn,t because he favored Wei Wu Xian too much.
I have to laugh at people saying that JFM "Favored Wei Wuxian" when it was textually clear that Wei Wuxian got whipped and punished arbitrarily all the time. If JFM truly favored Wei Wuxian, then he would care of the basic safety of the boy and would have stopped the many punishment as a sect leader. This is textbook abuse bystander behavior - You give more praise or meaningless attention to an abused person because you DON'T want to risk yourself and help in a meaningful way - What use is a few words of praise or a pat on the head when you're whipped? Truly fandom is sometimes very much reflective of how we treat abused children "Oh but the other person was nice to him, surely he was not abused" and that's how we get so many dead children on our hands.
@@Mina-wb1dz honey I am seeing you everywhere taking out absolutr bs over JC. I get it you are a WWX stan... So I guess u kinda should leave and give ur 'biased' opinion someplace else.
Personally, I like the fact that they didn't make up after everything. I feel it's more realistic that after so much misfortune and misunderstandings that you can't just "go back". You need to either find a way to shorten the distance that is now in place between them or leave it be. At times I pity JC but at most times I don't like how he puts WWX down, WWX already went through so much and because of his personality he is going to blame himself for a lot of what happened and therefore having JC put more blame on WWX does not sit right with me. But on the other hand, I can see that JC needs someone to blame (even if it's not right) and for feeling betrayed by the one he thought was always going to be there. Yet, there is always a choice, JC could have decided to keep his bond with WWX even if he was going to be scoffed at by the other leaders but his pride got in the way and instead they cut ties with each other. I find these two characters quite interesting because people will have different perspectives of the situation between these two.
I see JC’s personality and hate towards WWX, especially with all the things that happend between them, as an embodiment of a real world emotions coming because of unfavorable circumstances. Pride, hate, betrayal, guilt, selfishness, jealousy, confusion, sadness. It can be overwhelming when you feel all of this at one go, and don’t expect them to still think rationally. I honestly don’t see them having picnic under a tree even though all secrets were unfolded and that’s okay. I know I wont do that because some damages are not ment to be fixed 🙈
@@caramelthighs9782 I understand that JC has gone through unfavourable circumstances that made him do the things he did, however, he never apologized to WWX (from what I can recall) he only blamed WWX more, and in the end when he saw his wrongs he decided to not fix it because too much had happened. But under no circumstances is doing what he did to WWX, okay, and therefore I didn't like his character as much as other people did. For example, when WWX came back to life, instead of trying to talk to WWX, he whipped WWX. Their relationship had too much damage and misunderstandings in it, and it was even hinted in the book in one of the extras when the word slave came up that WXX might feel an association to that word as Lan Zhan pulled WWX closer to him when that happened. It is as you said "Some damages are not meant to be fixed"
Actually, according to the novel and the authors notes on weibo, 1. Jc and wwx DID in fact keep in contact, they just put on a show of hostility in order for them to both get what they want (jc getting support and acknowledgement frm other clans + wwx can do whatever he wants without having jc and the whole clan taking the fall). 2. According to the author on weibo, Jc was said to have killed wwx during the war, but in fact, jc went along with the other clans in hopes to save wwx and persuade them into not killing wwx (keep in mind this is right after jyl got killed and everyone thought it was wwx’s fault) But for some reason wwx was still killed and jc was the one who got credited with the kill. 3. Jc is a man with a lot of pride. Although he went and tried to save wwx, he still hates him for wwx basically causing the death of his whole family and leaving his nephew an orphan. 4. At the end of the book, the author also said that they actually made up, and wwx would go and visit JC and JL at lotus pier once in a while. Jc is not homophobic, he was just shocked by the fact that wwx is gay, after knowing him for so long and wwx has always been known to be flirting with girls. :D
It was not just pride, they were rebuilding from almost nothing, the sect needed support and resources, I bet even a loan from the in-laws, they were both thinking about ppl that needed them
@@alexhagane3543 Then why did JC lie unnecessaily? He could have just said WWX defected but no, he told everyone he was an enemy. He could have mentioned that Mianmian and LWJ did try to defend WWX but no, he told HIM that absolutely no one spoke up. He was trying to make things worse for WWX so that he'd have to surrender and those innocent people could be killed as JC wanted them to be.
Just the fact that everything went down just because Wei Wuxian wanted to safe everyone, he never tried to do something evil and ended up being the bad guy. It hurts that Lan Wangji was able to see that and not the man he grew up with as brothers.
Everything went done becuz Wei Wuxian wanted to save everyone? Then tell me, was it not right for Wei Wuxian to save the life of both Jin Zixuan and Lan Wangji as well as all the other sect heirs in the cave? "He never tried to do something evil" uhm are you sure you read MDZS, it is literally CANON that after WWX death JC literally spent 13 damn years torturing random people who may or may not be innocent. Not to mention leading a fucking siege on the Wen Remnants despite knowing how they were all INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
Is it not right for Lan Wangji to react that way? The man his beloved called a brother betrayed him and declared him an enemy of the cultivational world, leaving him to his fate? The man who built his reputation from the deaths of his beloved and the civilians his beloved was protecting. Tell me, was he being a petty immature brat, or is your precious Chengcheng the one who never grew up, choosing to still be controlled be pride and envy?
@@seleneaspenriddle-potter6880 uuuhhhh I think you might have misunderstood my comment.. I'm totally on Wei Wuxians side, I dislike JC because of his betrayal towards WWX
I very much agree, I've cried so many times because of how pitiful wwx is, he's been in misery from his childhood to his death and even when he's reborn, he's sacrificed and endured so much pain for other people yet everyone still calls him the bad guy, and I'm really annoyed with people who are saying 'I can UnDerStanD Jian Cheng'
Murdering is love now? Jesus, what would it take for people to see how much JC despise WWX and being happy to kill him? He never, ever, in the whole novel, showed remorse for killing WWX. In the end the only thing he cared about is one up WWX and not living in his shadow (while taking all the power and money from WWX's victories in sunshot campaign, how the fuck did the main power tank of a whole sect end up more broke than the Wen's remnants? because the sect leader's a fucking vampire who took everything in the name of supposedly "family", then disposed WWX and taking the name for killing the YLZ, that's how). Can you imagine LXC or NMJ did the same to LWJ or NHS? Like what the fuck. What kind of love is that, like the spider's love that murder the husband? Well, like mother like son i supposed, in the end a spider's child is truly a spider then.
@@rombongbong i think there's a little misunderstanding but i also agree with the fact that WWX is more broke than the wen remnants. It's a little confusing.
I agree. He did love weiying. But after the incident with his parents and sister, all that misunderstanding and confusion, top with some envy, *siiiiiigghhhh* He wanted weiying with him. To always be there to support him. It's actually pretty sad. :'< affter reading this part of the novel, i cried. *siiiggghhhh* I cant wait for Mxtx new novel. 😍
@@rombongbong huh? Taking money? Where did you read that? Are you sure? I mean jc tried to protect wwx when wen soldier got to close to him, he and lwj searching wwx when he's gone, he and wwx made a agreement to act like they both are fighting each other and state that wwx is not his sect member but then he still bring shijie to meet wwx, jc keep chenqing save and gave it back to wwx, and more. What can he do when all sect demands of the death of wwx? Besides he didn't know it's not really wwx fault when jzx dead. And shijie too dead when protecting wwx. Plus the fact that wwx broke his promise and left him for the wen (when he too needs him to rebuild his sect). So he feels complicated, he loves wwx as a brother, envy because his father seems to care for wwx more than him, feel betrayed when wwx left him, and hate him for other reason
People greatly misunderstand what Jiang Cheng's idea of twin pride of yunmeng was. It was never on the same level as the Twin Jades of Lan. Word by word in the novel, he said he saw Wei Wuxian as a subordinate. He wanted Wei Wuxian to remain as his subordinate. The twin pride of yunmeng was never supposed to be on equal grounds if Jiang Cheng had his way
Exactly!! I dont get those people who keeps pushing the "twin pride of junmeng" narrative to everyones faces when rly, they'd never work out in the end due to the HUGE differences in stances. wwx chose to live a new life, moving on from the past. he's done with jc.
That's true but I think it's not completely his fault. JFM always says WCZ and CSR are his good friends, but why do people still call WY the son of a servant? YZY was also too prideful to see that JFM DOES love her and not CSR. She was also too prideful to realize the reason JFM acts "favorably" towards WY is because he has no parents left - he doesn't want to replace his friends' position as WY's parents but still wants to give the kid some "parental care", and YZY treats him like trash all the time so SOMEONE has to be "nice" to WY! JFM wanted WY to be to JC what his father (WCZ) was to himself. YZY also stressed it all the time that there are clear distinction between JC and JYL, she stressed they are NOT siblings despite what they call each other (I think that's one reason why he doesn't wear purple). JC cares, he really does, but it was held back by his dysfunctional family's actions. He could've cared more, I believe he could, if only just for 1 time he tells WY his feelings honestly - the fact that he willingly let the Wens away depsite knowing he can die, shows that - alas, that didn't happen. JC was also under a lot of stress and pressure at the time. He barely have any allies and his Sect was barely standing, he's constantly attacked from all sides. It's hard for him to break away from the effects of being brought up in a toxic environment all his life. His actions aren't completely his fault, but that doesn't make him wholy excusable.
As expected of your username, you speak wisely! Fandom loves to push the "good brother JC' agenda so much it has bled over to almost supplant canon and it's such a weird thing when he was clearly written as a foil to a lot of good qualities and values the other characters have.
"He wanted Wei Wuxian to remain as his subordinate." Naturally. What other relations could exist in a Sect? Two Sect Leaders? No sect, no organization can work that way.
characterizing JC as someone who’s love was conditional, that he only saw Wei wuxian as a subordinate, (not even taking into consideration any translation decisions) and that he truly feels WWX owes him are all surface level conclusions that aren’t really true if you examine his words and actions throughout the series. When JC says that WWX promised to be his subordinate, it’s less about WWX being inferior to him as it was a promise that WWX made to stay by his side, that regardless of the things they went through he could rely on him and they would always have one another. He did not treat WWX as lesser than him, even with his parents treating them differently and contributing to his insecurity that he is not as good as WWX. This insecurity shows up in this scene, where JC seems angry that he owes WWX a debt and is bringing up how the Jiang’s have given a lot to him, in reality he is probably once again feeling inferior in the light of WWX’s great sacrifice for him. He tries to absolve himself of this guilt by telling WWX that they have sacrificed a lot for him too, where WWX takes his words at face value and does feel the blame for something that isn’t really his fault. JC portrays this anger to defend his pride and hide how he truly feels but as soon as they are gone he breaks down, hurt at the ever growing distance between them when they were once so close. His grief is not someone losing their subordinate, it is of someone who feels betrayed and abandoned by someone he saw as a brother. I just can’t believe people watch JC joke around with, worry about, protect, and fight with WWX and think that he only wanted him as a servant. Does this justify the way that he treated WWX? No, but it’s not so black and white between them. the entire series builds up misunderstandings and hurt feelings between them that drive a wall through them, with the death of JYL serving as one catalyst and the core transplant serving as another. The animators show this as literally as possibly with the shot of ever growing distance between them. I just feel that you really miss the point and the nuance of this scene and their relationship if you treat it as “JC thinks he’s better than WWX.”
I agree if JC was that selfish and immature ,he wouldn't have distracted Wen clan ppl and that led to getting caught and have his golden core melted. Wen clan ppl were going to catch Wei wuxian and would have done so if JC wouldn't have distracted
I totally agree with you! JC is a very complex character and it’s easy to misunderstand his intentions. He’s arguably one of the most complicated ones of the entire series because there’s so much going on underneath the surface and his words are often contrary to his actions. It’s different from LWJ, he’s a quiet character and let’s actions speak for themselves. But JC sometimes says something that doesn’t really reflect his feelings so he’s easily misunderstood. He comes across as arrogant and selfish but he cared so deeply about his family and his clan. It’s easy to judge a person based on a rude comment and label them as immature and childish. But it’s the actions we should focus on so JC trying to save WWX and having his golden core crushed as a result definitely shows his true intentions. He and WWX are so similar when it comes to miscommunication. So thank you for your great analysis, it’s spot on imo 👏🏼
Ok, but it would've been fine if Jiang Cheng wouldn't have been unreasonable the *entire* time Wei Wuxian was trying to help innocent people. But no, JC just HAD to throw his baby-ass tantrum over his helping Wens that had *nothing* to do with his parents being killed and made it all about himself. WWX was given the ultimatum "do the right thing (something he was always prone to) or let these innocent people die just so your shitty adopted brother doesn't get hurt feelings." One group clearly needed him more. JC sucks.
@@horohorosrin I’m really confused by this comment for a couple of reasons. First, my comment wasn’t about debating whether his actions where justifiable or right (i did say that it didn’t excuse them) but trying to explain some of the nuances of his emotions and actions that seem quite misunderstood in the comment section. Second, you’ll have to remind me when in the series JC had unreasonable tantrums about WWX helping the wens? It seems that you are talking about when WWX decides to help the Wen remnants by taking them to the burial mounds, where JC tells him that he cannot support him. I thought it was fairly clear that he wasn’t actually angry because WWX was helping the Wens, but telling him that he is put in a difficult position by WWX’s actions and it reflects back of the Jiang clan, who is really just starting to recover. Ik this is fiction but the setting is based on historical times and JC is a sect leader, he reasonably has to lead and maintain an image befitting of his status for the time period, which as unfair and wrong as it is, isn’t helping the remains of the people their world now dubs “evil.” WWX knows this which is why he tells him to cut ties with him for the sake of the clan. To my understanding, he also argues against it for WWX’s sake, ie trying to protect him, because he knows that if WWX goes through with it he will both be allied with the Wen’s and become “the enemy” in the eyes of the masses, and lose the protecting of JC and the Jiang clan in the process. I mean, plenty of ppl were clearly trying to find an opportunity to get rid of WWX since they have all been fearful of him during the sunshot campaign, and this would be creating the perfect one that we see is taken advantage of later on in the series, so his concerns weren’t unfounded imo. I didn’t mean for this to get so long but the complexity of it all really interests me! So again, my point is that JC’s words and actions are a little more complex then they appear. If you hate JC and find him unreasonable that’s fine but that and how wrong his words and actions are at times are an entirely different can of worms haha.
JC is very pitiful. I was hoping that there was a scene where he and WWX could finally talk about everything. However, the misunderstanding is already too big. JC, you could have been one of the people closest to WWX because you grew up together. But, your pride came first. :-(
I have always been so sorry to JC, there really was no space for anger for him in my heart while i was reading/watching MDZS. Ever since a kid, i think he's always felt he was inferior to WWX. Especially when his father favors wwx more and madam jiang always pushes him to do more. With the influence of the other cultivators, in the end, he created an unfixable problem between him and wwx. I want a wwx and jc spinoff 😭😭😭
I think their relationship is something like porcelain that already broken. No matter how great the pottery fixed it, it would never be the same anymore.
@@jiangchengeyerollissamood2530 I have to laugh at people saying that JFM "Favored Wei Wuxian" when it was textually clear that Wei Wuxian got whipped and punished arbitrarily all the time. If JFM truly favored Wei Wuxian, then he would care of the basic safety of the boy and would have stopped the many punishment as a sect leader. This is textbook abuse bystander behavior - You give more praise or meaningless attention to an abused person because you DON'T want to risk yourself and help in a meaningful way. What use is a few words of praise or a pat on the head when you're whipped? Truly fandom is sometimes very much reflective of how we treat abused children "Oh but the other person was nice to him, surely he was not abused" and that's how we get so many dead children on our hands.
@@Mina-wb1dz then why would jiang fengmian tell jiang cheng that wei ying understands the way of the yunmengjiang instead of just teaching jiang cheng what it takes to lead the yunmengjiang? He only added to jiang cheng's insecurity. Also, no hate on wei ying but he was a rowdy kid (which to me is a how childhood should be) despite being gifted so he got whipped.
The saddest thing still to me, is wei ying never knowing that Jiang cheng lost his core for him too. That's some closure i bet we all wish we got.. and i hope they got as they lived on.
@@Pere........ At 6:00, jiang cheng saw the wens coming towards wei ying that he might be soon caught while buying foods so he used himself as a bait but got caught instead and lose his golden core for jiang cheng.
That's truly that saddest thing. Wei Ying will never know that Jiang Cheng lost the core because he tried to protect Wei Ying. And at that time Jiang Cheng wasn't in his best spirits or there were other more safe ways to distract the wens.
even in the novel wei ying never know about that. he only know that wen vcaptured jiang while he s away. n jiang also didnt explain that to wei ying, its very sad
Yeah. That's why I can never fully hate Jiang Cheng. I don't like him but...that act touched me. He could have spit that back as a retort but he didn't and kept the secret to himself. he hasn't reached 100% level of spitefulness. I still do not think he saw Wei Wuxian as his equal (he expected him to be his subordinate), but I have no doubt he really treated him as a family
The portrayal of JC’s character really struck out to me this episode - it once again reminds us how complex his character is. JC’s inferiority towards WY and his overwhelming pride that destroyed many aspects of his life - came hand in hand with the way he was brought up. The same time he experienced immense pressure from everyone around him as the one expected to lead his clan in the future, the one he sought validation from the most - as someone who was supposed to guide and protect him - his father - had treated him strictly and blatantly showed bias towards WY. WY and JYL were, in a way, his escape and his balance in life. JC had loved the two dearly and they had treated him without any expectations, only love and trust. Although WY was also an object of his insecurity, JC knew full well that he treasured the two more than any other insecurities he had. If only JYL hadn’t died. It was the last straw and had broken both JC and WY, leaving them with nothing but hatred and ripping out all the darkness in their hearts. Misunderstandings were sown, WY had perished and JC was left with nothing but hatred and no one left to seek answers from. After both JYL and WY had left, JC had no one left to confide in - he had to put on a prideful and impenetrable image for others to see - perhaps as a way to protect himself from all the pain he experienced in his past. The way JC burst out in anger then in grief after WY left in this clip really hit me hard because under all the anger hid a fragility that JC did not know how to communicate to others - too many tragedies had occurred and there was no way back; even if somewhere deep down JC still treasured WY the same he had before. It was just that it became impossible for JC to let go of the hatred of the past that still eats at him. I really, REALLY appreciate such a strong character. He isn’t without flaws and he has made so many hurtful decisions. I’m not justifying his actions but he is an example of someone who once lived in happiness despite the hardships - before everything came raining down on him. Give my boy rights to happiness😭 Just to clear up what JC said regarding WWX as his ‘subordinate’, the English translations did their best but I hope no one antagonises JC for saying that because in Chinese it’s more like JC and WWX said that to show their support for each other and their future: reaffirming the fact that WWX never desired JC’s position as the heir and that when JC becomes the new head for lotus pier, WWX will remain in lotus pier to support him. Families in China indirectly show their affection this way, whether it is through actions or their words! Damn, if you’re still reading you’re a cool person😉 I’m seriously over-analysing but it’s MDZS✨ - if you haven’t read the novel yet I recommend you do that! The animation handled many of the delicate situations in MDZS brilliantly… but for extra details PLUS SPICE🌶 (censored from the donghua🥲) why not?
I love this! I COMPLETELY agree with your analysis! I think ppl are quick to judge him on certain things he did and said but overall I see a sad boy: one with flaws and insecurities but also someone without the guidance of how to grow up and deal with all the tragedies that hit him. I get emotional thinking about JYL and WY bc it’s so obvious the love they had for him but how that was so quickly taken as well 🥺😔
Ya know, I agree and I also slightly disagree. You can love someone and love them incorrectly. Never once do you hear JC love WY like a brother. All you hear word for word in the novel is subordinate. Sometimes when we love something or someone, we love them for the wrong reasons and it becomes a toxic form of love which is destructive in nature. That kind of love hurts all parties invested. To a certain degree, JC wanted to become a parallel version of Lan Xichen and Lan Zhan, but you cannot get that via subjugation. The Lan brothers have a genuine love for each other and see each other as equals with no sense of competition or oneupsmanship between them. In the case of JC and WY, comparisons were always being made and instead of bonding they were being made to compete (at least in the eyes of JC because WY doesn't really care about such things give my boy some wine and he is str8 XD) I think he does deserve happiness as he does have some progression in the novel, especially after core-gate. Angry Purple Brother finally ate a Snickers.
this is such a good analysis! i’m kinda new to mdzs but this rlly puts WY and JC’s relationship into perspective for me. also where can i read the novel? ive been trying to find out where but i still have no idea haha
Ur correct but I just want to add that the bro never really consider him as a sibling in the end. He, bro himself, stated mc as subordinate and him, bro, as the leader. His surround and indirectly, he him self, refers to mc as a son of a servant after many years have passed. Just really inhuman and very human at the same time. I just hate everyone in the Jiang clan. Toxic as hell. Just glad wwx got to leave and be w lwj. 😄 ❤ As for the sister...she's like a water, don't really find her important but without her the story will be gone. 🤷♀️
I LOVE this character. So complex and so we’ll written. I think the brothers/friends to enemies is my favorite troupe lol. But I’ve never seen it so well written.
To put it simply. What Wei Ning was saying is, "Now do you understand. Wei Ying never tried to harm or hurt you. Yes, he saved me and my family. Yes, he saved Lan Wangi. Truth is you and your family have always been in his heart."
It's so interesting how the donghua added this scene of Lan Wangji undoing Jiang Cheng's guan/headpiece! The Guan is something that denotes status symbol in the gentry, with different iterations symbolizing different positions or tiers. For Lan Wangji to just so effortlessly knock it off his head feels like a suitable chastisement of how Jiang Cheng had not lived up to all his supposed 'honor'. One of the things that has always grated at me, even though it's very realistic, is how most of the men in power in MDZS ended up never getting the consequences of their actions and crimes. Jiang Cheng pitted his ex-shixiong against the cultivation world and ignored his debt to the Wen siblings, went on to slaughter the Wens despite knowing them to be innocents, and went on to murder countless people in the name of hunting down demonic cultivators and in the novel and cql ended up with nary a reprimand - And still fans are clamoring that he "deserves better" somehow. Well I'd say he got the flick of the wrist he deserves in this scene! Good job for delivering it, Hanguang-Jun and the donghua makers!
Definitely shows how people who aren't inheritedly bad, spiral down paths that just continue to spiral, soon finding themselves in an abyss of mess they csnt crawl out of. I love his character but what a impulsive emotional wreck of a character he is. The part you mentioned of having his guan being slashed was so symbolic and genius. Oh the tragedy of this wonderful show with characters we love to hate and hate to love lol.
4:42....finally I get to know exactly what happened here. I've been dying to know the relevance of this scene. Having watch a couple of review also just to see if they have mention this.
Its also such a beautiful moment when Lan Zhan sends the red glowing dragon flies down on him. Red is Wei Wuxian's colour. Dragonflies in Bhuddist ideology symbolise the purity of being and living life to ones truest potential by living not in the past but in the moment. It almost his way of saying just as Wen Ning did, that Wei Ying will always surpass and outshine him. He is pure of heart and does not wish to linger on what has been but work towards making the present and the future more beautiful. Whereas Jaing Cheng is stuck in a past that no one to change and is contriving blame upon Wei Ying so he does not have to face the truth that most of what happened was brought back to his feet. He was the one who ignored Wei Ying's pleas and returned to Lotus Cove, he was the one who lost his core, and after Wei Ying sacraficed his own so that Jaing Cheng his sister, his position and his clan could be protected, it was because of that that Wei Ying had to turn to demonic cultivation. He would have never had to do any of that if Jaing Cheng just listened to him. But also not one thing that happened was truly Wei Yings fault. The Jaing parents did not die because of Wei Ying. They died because of the Wen clan highers. Yanli did not die because of Wei Ying but because of the second flute. Wei Ying was absolutely correct to save the innocents of the Wen clan and though his methods were always unruly, he never did anything selfishly. He was pushed and pushed until he broke and then when he thought he had gone too far he killed himself. If anything the only one at fault for what happened to and around Wei Ying was Jaing Cheng. One because he lost his core and two because he stood against him. I understand he felt betrayed that Wei Ying didnt keep his promise, but to be honest no matter what Wei Ying did, Jaing Cheng would find some fault in it. He was too stuck on being the named hero and not on truly doing the right thing. He was perhaps a little broken by his parents, traumatised by the deaths of his family and so I cant bring myself to hate him at all. But there is no excuse for the way he treated Wei Ying here. Even if he didnt know about the second flute, he did not kill Yanli, Yanli should have neve been there unprotected. I feel Jaing Cheng's pain, I do. But his pain is not the fault of Wei Ying. Much of Wei Ying's pain is however due to Jaing Cheng.
For me it's JC mom that is the reason for all of this as she was the one that instilled in them that wei ying had to repay their kindness. This led to them thinking that love has a cost. Wei ying wants to give his love without any strings attached while JC doesn't know how to accept his love without those strings. It hurt when he said if he should bow down and kneel to thank him when we know that's not what wei ying wants.
Honestly I agree but I feel like both parents were wrong JC mom for taking her anger out on children who at the time had done nothing wrong and JC dad for never trying to do anything to help stop her. The most he'd done is tell her to stop or to calm down. If he had explained or talked with his wife their relationship could have been better. We saw the he did care for his wife and kids so why didn't he explain. Honestly JCs dad reminds me too much of Qi-ge (From Svsss also I forgot how to spell his name so I just put qi-ge)
To me JC feels like a child that doesn't understand how he should feel or how he should react he basically did what his mom did take his anger out on others more specifically WWX. He just did what he had seen all his life. WWX and JCs relationship was always strained the only thing that keep them together was their sister. Who was the only one in the family who understood the family. That probably hurt her too she was the one basically raising WWX and JC even tho she was only a child at the time too.
@Salty Dinosaur you have lots of point there Both JFM and MY/YZY are awful (although I cried so much during their death). They couldn't resolve their own issues so the kids got involve. JFM knows the rumor going around that he favors WWX because he is the son of his supposedly former love interest(WWX's mother) but does nothing to clear the misunderstanding (he should've at least explained to his wife ffs). This is not only a humiliation to MY/YZY but also another blow to their already strained marriage thus leading to MY/YZY lashing out at WWX (even blaming him for the attack of Wen clan at Lotus pier which she knows full well that Wen Ruohan would find a way to attack even if WWX did not stand up for others in the cave) and using JC to confront his husband and constantly comparing them (I don't really know much about their treatment towards JYL tho). That was a long rant (I have a love and hate relationship towards JFM and MY/YZY) but overall it's kinda their fault but not entirely that JC is kinda fucked up.
I know I am not the only one who was😭on this scene Wen Ning telling Jiang Cheng he was not supposed to surpass Wei Ying now tell me how a complete stranger knows that verses your brother. Love you Wei Ying and Lan Zhan 😍
I get the impression after watching this scene again that Jiang Cheng only cared for Wei Ying as long as he did everything he was supposed to for the Jiang family. It was love, but a conditional one. I don't think they could make up post canon because of this because Wei Ying fundamentally can't fulfill the conditions. There's also a note by the author that Jiang Cheng's blacklisted by female cultivators because his standards are insanely high but he doesn't think he needs to provide anything in a relationship. I think this fundamentally speaks to his character.
Omg this is what I've been trying to elucidate to my mxtx discord friend for weeks now, thank you! Like I get that Jiang Cheng loves Wei Wuxian, but it's the kind of love that's very asshole Asian conservative parent, where you only deserves to be loved when you follow a very specific brand of guidelines that THEY set up for you. That's why I'm becoming increasingly leery of the fandom euphoria for Yunmeng bros reconciliation because honestly that would just mean Wei Wuxian having to adjust and appease Jiang Cheng's ego while Jiang Cheng himself does nothing and would never try to see any other perspectives other than his.
@@isha8318 I've seen one fanfiction where they work the balance of JC growing up enough to acknowledge that his brother gets to be his own person but also is still his dumb self.
This was exactly how I interpreted it when I first read MDZS. That Jiang Cheng's love was conditional. He couldn't bring himself to support a Wei Ying who was walking an unorthodox path. Unlike his sister who could always find it in her heart to love Wei Ying no matter what. And that's something even wwx understood very well.
Not really... he was willing to sacrifice himself to wwx. He is imperfect and even immature emotionally, but he deeply cared for wwx. Just like wwx, he decided to try and save wwx without letting him know. He went to distract the Wens... but instead of him telling wwx this, wwx thought he was abandoned by jc. He waa told by JFM to take care of jc... and basically put jc ahead of himself. He did just that, not knowing that jc at times also did this. Because they weren't raised as equals. Because they weren't taught to communicate as equals. And mostly, jc is never honest about his feelings. This is the whole reason JL ends up telling his own uncle off at the very end for being a giant tsundere
I've always hated how JC says that WWX is the one that betrayed the clan. He gave JC his golden core to keep the jiang clan alive. JC knew that the Wen remnants were innocents but refused to do anything about it. WWX leaving was for the sake of the clan to not be dragged down with him AND JC is the only who declared WWX an enemy, so honey, who BETRAYED who.
EXACTLY. I love how Lanzhan blew the thing off Jiang Cheng’s head as if saying you don’t deserve the title you have and didn’t live up to it either, to shut him up.
Thank you! Like yes, JC didn't know whose golden core he was using. But he did know that he wouldn't have a golden core without WW since it was his name he used. JYL especially wouldn't have survived as long without WN and WQ sticking their necks out to help. Yet JC still demands more of WW after refusing to help WW repay their debt to the Wens. Then when WW leaves to protect the clan, JC labels him an enemy and leads two sieges against him! If that isn't the biggest betrayal, I don't know what is.
i think one of the reasons why JC refused to help the Wens was because of how fragile his position as a new sect leader was. true, he was raised to be one, but he didn't gain the title under circumstances anyone would expect. he was forced to raise Lotus Pier on his own, and the entire cultivation world has high expectations of him that's why he can't afford to mess up. he's treading on very thin ice, and because of that, he became hyperfixated on restoring the Jiang sect to its former glory, regardless of the collateral damage it would cause to the world and the people around him. which is probably why he ignored the Wens' cry for help, and even went as far as disowning WWX. ps. if it's unclear, i'm not defending him. i know very well that JC played a part in the overall tragedy of MDZS because of his lopsided goals and his obvious inferiority complex. but i don't exactly hate him either. i just appreciate how well-written he is as a character.
You have ti understand his side. JC also sacrificed himself for WWX. He truly loved him as well. If he didnt he would’ve let him be caught by the Wens. He knew he could’ve died or been tortured there endlessly, but he still made that choice. They both love each other. Its understandable JC hates ALL the Wens because they killed and tortured his people and hurt him. He has all the right to feel that way. No, he should not have taken it out on the remnants, but when a group of people, majority, deeply hurt you, it makes sense. I hate seeing JC slander. He had a whole sect to rebuild and a sister that he was responsible for. He couldn’t defend them even if he wanted to. He had to sacrifice a lot. His relationship with WWX was burdened with the circumstances, jealousy, and lack of communication. They both gave up a lot for eachother.
Even though I understand the bitterness of JC after losing his parents and rebuilding Lotus Pier on his own...I can't ever justify his hostility towards WWX as anything other than blinded jealousy and plain resentment_ Most importantly, JC always referred to WWX as his "SUBORDINATE" instead of "BROTHER" whenever this 'promise stuff' came up. And let's be honest here, even WWX lost his parents way before JC did. WWX denied comfort/safety for a bunch of weak and discarded people// He made the Burial Mounds a living space!!!_HELL, he died thinking everyone hated him and that JY(the only person who he thought loved him) died bcoz of him. Did all this make WWX excuse himself from his responsibility as the one who killed many? No! He accepted his fault! HE DID NOT LET BITTERNESS AND HATRED turn him into a projector of negativity and abuser! This pure honesty is what makes the protagonist of Mdzs unique from any other protagonist I've ever known. He's very honest about his strengths and weaknesses. Besides,after I got to know about how JC protected WWX, I thought maybe they could get some closure. However, let's be honest here, practically it would have been really hard and time consuming to have a calm conversation after all that shit. And we all know...patience is not their greatest ability_I am speaking for both WWX and JC_one is hot headed like an active volcano and another fidgety like a new rubberband. Anyways, personally,I'm satisfied that WWX and LWJ got their much deserved happy ending with each other.
Ik where you come from but calling him subordinate is actually technically correct since he would have been that, he would have probably been his right hand man which is in fact that since JC would have been a sect leader thus his superior, it didn’t matter if they were friends/brothers (like separating personal life/titles from the work ones (to make it more professional maybe, idk))
@@moonshinee3260 That's my point here_someone as free-spirited and brilliant as WWX was never meant to be anyone's subordinate. JC couldn't just accept that even if he should have understood this about WWX.
@@alishawinters924 I mean, yes he should have understood him a bit more, but why would WWX promise him to be his right hand man I he just wanted to leave? Why give him hope? tbh I do think WY wanted to stay but due to latter events they just couldn’t be the same anymore
I cried reading the novel, i cried watching the drama adaptation, the anime adaptation also never failed to make me cryyyy 😭 but for me the novel still the one who made me cried so hard because if you read it in chinese there are so many beautiful and deep words in chinese that cannot be translated in english.
It’s sad that his self confidence forever ruined whatever relationship there was between the two brothers. He let the doubt he had for himself ruin the love he had for his brother and the sad thing his his brother let him because he believed that he deserved that hate after being a cause for the death of their sister.
As an animation student, I must really commend how beautiful the animators did this scene. The action shots, suave movements, and metaphor for how Jiang Cheng feels when he learns the true are super impactful story telling. My favorite part is towards the end where Lan Wangji blows of his hair accessory as if it was a metaphor to not only shut up, but that all his hard work and image of being a clan leader was shattered with the knowledge that his golden core wasn't his. And, that in a way the truth was setting him free from all this built up resentment and hatred. It's easy for him to hate Wei Wuxian. It was the only way he knew how to explain or cope with everything that happened, so to be told that all his hatred, mourning, and resentment should've been a lie in a way all these years hurts. It's like he wasted his whole life becoming something that shouldn't have been in a way. I feel like their friendship would never be able to bounce back after all that has happened and it's realistic to real life. Not everyone makes up. God I love the storywriting and the feels!! Also that moment when he goes to his knees and as soon as the flute (literally the instrument Wei Wuxian plays) plays his tears start streaming down. Beautiful timing!! Poetic Cinema!! I'm here for it.
Se me salió una lagrimita, esto me rompe el corazón, me duele mucho. Realmente es una escena que es difícil de ver, leer, escuchar... PD: Gracias por los subtítulos al español, me sirven mucho (soy de México, así que se me facilita)
It's so weird to me how many people are excusing and justifying Jiang Cheng's behavior when if you meet him in real life, you'd probably hate him or be scared of him. Like, sure he looks handsome and dashing and all, but are people labelling him as "just a tsundere character so misunderstood uwu!" blind or just really inexperienced in life? Jiang Cheng is a person in power who had a history of strangling a family member in a fit of rage and knowingly leading an assault towards a group of innocents, knowing that thee are women, elderly and children amongst them. This is a man in power who ignored pleas and cases until people have straight-up died, all the while accepting taxes from said people to protect them. This is a man who spent years torturing and killing people indiscriminately at the slightest inkling that they practice unorthodox cultivation (and just THINK how many people do not have money to go to Sects to study and just does unorthodox cultivation?). In real life, this man would be an abusive, ineffective political figure who uses his power to push down on YOU. THIS is the man you idolize? THIS is the kind of behavior you excuse? Are you a fan of totlitarian and ineffective political pundits in real life as well?
Lmao this, all these girls simping for JC when irl JC would literally spit on them for being a female commoner :'D Like I understand liking antagonist characters, there's a lot of fandoms who do that, but the MDZS/Untamed fandom is one of the first where the simping is followed by a HUGE amount of whitewashing and abuse apologia. You don't see people who like Darth Vader or Hannibal or Voldermort be like "Yep he never did anything wrong it's all the protagonist's fault", and JC's not even that cool as an antagonist to begin with, he's just this insecure, homophobic manchild who throws tantrums by torturing people weaker than him but didn't even raise a peep towards ACTUAL demonic cultivator Xue Yang because he probably owes money to the Jins lmao.
Well that's because believe it or not, Jiang Cheng's character is quite relatable in more ways than one. Besides, if he were a person in real life, we won't actually know what goes in his head or what made him the person he became unless we know him really well or are someone important from his past. So naturally, we won't like him, hate him even, if he was being a shit to us. I'm not actually excusing his behaviour, but can you really blame him for being so insecure when all his life Jiang Fengmian was biased towards him? (Well at least that's how Cheng saw it. I know his father was just being strict because Cheng needed to be tough and know what's right in order to lead the sect properly) He literally had no one to confide in after all this shit started, no one to actually open his heart up to and release all those negative emotions eating him up. Plus he's a really prideful person so it's even harder for him to let it out. Not everyone's as brave / big-hearted as Wei Ying or as patient as Lan Zhan. (And I do know that Wei Ying went through a lot, like really a lot. So I'm not comparing them or anything.) Also, if Jiang Cheng would've been the one to stand by Wei Ying, then chances of Jiang Cheng leveling up to Lan Zhan would've been high. Which is not right since we don't want a triangle in there (or at least, I don't.) Damn, MDZS's characters are really complex. I'm glad I found out it existed even though I've cried rivers.
Eh, for me personally, I don’t really simp over JC (cuz let’s be honest, WWX and LWJ are much cuter and hot lmao) JC is actually my fav because of how complex he is. He’s the only character that never fails to make me cry no matter how many times I reread the Chinese novel, the manhua, watch the TV series, the animated version, or listen to the 广播剧. As selfless as WWX is for fighting against the world by himself, I do also think he’s selfish for ignoring his responsibilities of being a clan member. I don’t think it’s fair for WWX to put his clan’s safety at risk because he wants to save another group of people, irl I would find it hard to be WWX’s friend/family member. JC, however, I thought was actually an effective politician and a brave character who rebuilt his clan and maintained his fragile relationship with a dangerous WWX (to us, WWX practicing demonic cultivation wasn’t an issue cuz we knew WWX was good at heart, but to those who didn’t know WWX on a personal level, he was a huge threat). I dont know just my thoughts plz don’t come for me I still love WWX I just had to defend JC a bit there
@@amychen650 I gotta ask, what canon are you going on from? In every adaptation, it's clear that the Wens would have attacked Lotus Pier unprovoked all along, seeing how they've subdued Gusu Lan and Qinghe Nie without provocation - Maybe try being family members with Madam Yu then, because she was actually the one who actually provoked Wang Lingjiao and put her clan in danger? And goodness, did you just skip through the part where Wei Wuxian deliberately seceded from the Yunmeng Jiang sect as not to implicate them in saving the Wens? And lmao at "maintaining his fragile relationship with a dangerous WWX" when JC canonically declared publicly that WWX is an enemy of the cultivation world WHILE knowing that his "dangerous" shixiong was merely farming with a bunch of old people and a kid? Like did we read and watch two different shows/books or did someone gave you fanfic disguised as the novel? :'D
@@isha8318 mmm I see what you mean but I think we’re actually arguing on very different bases, I don’t want to start an argument I just wanted to throw my ideas out there. WWX is someone that is very heroic in the sense that he has strong personal morals that he holds on tight to, we can see that with him helping the Wen clan. WWX lives up exactly to one of his famous quotes: “是非在己、毁誉由人、得失不论” (which roughly translates to “right vs wrong is decided by oneself, reputation is decided by others, gains and losses do not matter”). This is actually the first half of a 对联 that MXTX adapts from 岳麓书院, the second half of the 对联 says: “为天地立心，为生民立命，为往圣继绝学，为万世开太平” (which roughly translates to “invoking heart and life in society (I’m assuming means modeling purpose and kindness in society), continuing and pursuing a bright future, and promoting peace in the world”). I think these two quotes actually encompass a lot of the two main arguments readers have, the focus on morals within oneself versus respecting society’s values. Now you might say the values in the society that WWX lived in were horrible and that’s why we had all the conflict, but similarly, WWX’s morals can’t all be upheld either. WWX acts on morals of 无愧于心 (which poorly translates to “worthy of his heart”) but how can he promise not to harm others when he chooses to protect someone else? It’s never a win win situation, WWX choosing demonic cultivation caused people’s lives did it not? Yes it’s self defense, it’s war, the clans chose to provoke him first, but weren’t many innocent lives lost under his hands (let’s not forget 血洗不夜天)? WWX promised JC loyalty and support, did he do that? WWX wanted to protect his shijie, did he succeed? He wanted to protect Wenning and Wenqing, was he successful? Maybe you’ll say “none of this was WWX’s fault, it’s the others fault for their corruption”, but is it fair to say that WWX wasn’t responsible for a single life? Again, don’t want to start a fight over this but I’ll admit I’m slightly offended by the fact that you question if I even read the book because we disagree 😭sorry if I sound too harsh but I think we can agree to disagree about JC, or at least agree that this argument is the beauty of MXTX’s books, no one is ever completely innocent or guilty (except Wanglingjiao and Wenchao fuck them)
i love the final part where his anger has faded away and left him just grieving. for the first time he lets go of his hatred and looks back on both of their actions and realizes that while they both turned away from each other at the same time, my memory of the novel is hazy but where he was mentally at the time meant he could not see the Wens as anything but monsters and murderers and couldnt understand that some were innocent so WWX, in his mind, betrayed JC by standing up for and being nice to the Wens, this is when WWX turns his back on JC. but JC finally realizes that he also turned his back on WWX, by not listening to him about the Wens. however the animation shows how JC realising how he betrayed WWX more than WWX betrayed JC as WWX turned his back but stayed still, implying his betrayal to be minor easily forgiven maybe even understandable, whereas JC ran headlong away from WWX without looking back, implying JC has realized his betrayal was much worse and he is truly to blame for losing his brother and the one person he could rely on. this is huge especially for someone as proud as JC is.
Wei Ying, Wei Ying... Jiang Cheng didn't understand how much Wei Ying had to go through. Demonic path and cultivation he never really wanted to show off let alone go through it. But it was the only way to get strong lest he be conquered by the darkness and let everyone dear to him dies. It was the fault of many others who instigated him be the monster he was. Wei Ying having offered his golden core aswell... I knew liking Wei Ying from the start was a good choice. Due to his principles and using dark and evil to perform good deeds.
I'm honestly baffled at the number of people in the comments just...straight up normalizing Jiang Cheng's abusive and physically harmful behavior as "human" and "understandable because of his background". Because that's what it is, your way of viewing fiction more or less reflects your irl views - People are just taking a very aggressively reactive and abusive character and say "well that's a normal reaction" while it should NOT be. My work in maternal health sometimes brings me face to face with the edges of domestic abuse, and the sentiments all over this comment section is just reminding me of when people try to excuse domestic abusers. We as a society TRY SO HARD to "understand" and ask 'why" towards abusers, while victims and potential victims are rarely given the same justification or understanding. Why does it ALWAYS have to fall to victims to understand, to try and accommodate abusers as not to be abused meanwhile we spin so many stories of abusers having a rough childhood, abusers facing loss, and how "oh he was just reactive" or "oh he was just having a bad day". Tbvh every time I encounter cases of domestic violence, these mothers are always so quiet, always expecting me to take the husband's side, always expecting me to ask "What did YOU do that your husband hit you?" the way people here are so quick to defend JC and vilify and point out every wrong thing about Wen Ning, Wei Wuxian, the Wens, and even JC's victims he tortured along 13 years - and having this kind of sentiment appear all over something I go to entertain myself just makes me sad.
As much as I pity Jiang Cheng (in all versions, yes, canon, donghua, live) he's still a man blinded by his rage. He got nothing for Wei WuXian but hatred, spite, and anger. Some will say their relationship started falling apart when Jiang YanLi died, but is that true? Jiang YanLi's death is just the final blow to their already crumbled connection. Notice how he treated Wei WuXian in his first life, always referring to him as his "subordinate" - to his eyes, Wei WuXian is a charity case meant to repay his family for all his life. His mother greatly influenced this line of thought, but really, has he thought of Wei WuXian as a brother to him? They may have an agreeable relationship at some point, but to me, he never treated Wei WuXian as a real brother. He has always seen him as a competition, be it for his father's attention or recognition from outsiders. When Lotus Pier fell and burned, what did he do? He pushed all the blame to Wei WuXian as if it was really his fault that the Wens attacked their sect. It was always convenient for him to pin the blame on Wei WuXian. It was clear that Wei WuXian was always used as a scapegoat since he is the best option. Oh, the Wens attacked? Blame Wei WuXian for it. My parents died? Blame Wei WuXian for it. Jin ZiXuan was killed? Blame Wei WuXian for it. It's always BLAME WEI WUXIAN. The day Lotus Pier fell, it was not only Jiang Cheng who lost. Wei WuXian lost, too. His home, his shimeis and shidis, his adoptive family. But sure, let Jiang Cheng pin the blame on Wei WuXian because of his "heroics". As if his "heroic" act did not save their ass from the XuanWu of Slaughter. But of course, that' still Wei WuXian's fault. What most fail to understand is that the Wens, whether Wei WuXian made that intervention in the XuanWu cave or not would still come after the Jiangs. They just needed an excuse to send their troops to Yunmeng. And Yu Ziyuan was more than willing to cut Wei WuXian's arm!!!! It was always Wei WuXian who made an effort to bridge the gap between them. What was the reason Wei WuXian acted as "arrogant" or "insolent" in the first place? For Jiang Cheng not to take the blame. He has turned himself into an active target to protect his so-called "siblings". And don't get me started with Jiang Cheng's killing spree of demonic cultivators for 13 years. He whipped Mo XuanYu with ZIDIAN!! If Wei WuXian really possessed that body, what do you think would have happened? His soul would forever perish. IDK I have a lot to say. But anyway, the point is, Jiang Cheng is not the only victim here. And Wei WuXian is not the culprit for Jiang Cheng's misery. Them, not mending their relationship, in the end, is better. It was far too late for them. Wei WuXian will be far happier in his life if he is not constantly reminded of his "low birth" and his life "debts". He has already repaid it all.
I disagree. He was one of the major voices contending against his own mother. Only through the arguments getting worse and his dad seemingly being even further biased made him question. But even when he thought he was unloved, he still hid it deep for quite some time until it all came exploding down when his entire family was massacred and humiliated.
@@flyatnight-1812 You're not really making sense? What does him feeling unloved have to do with him 'exploding" and blaming (plus choking) an already wounded Wei Wuxian after Lotus Pier's fall? Before the Wen's attack, most of Jiang Cheng's dialogue in canon are either him reprimanding Wei Wuxian for shaming the sect and being silent during family scenes. I hope you're not saying that because he felt unloved and had oh so bravely hid it from the world that he is in the right for blaming and hurting Wei Wuxian after his family was massacred. Also it's always weird to me how fandom falls so easily into the "omg Jiang Cheng is unloved and WWX is favored by JFM" shitty fanfic trope. If you really read canon or watch it, you'll catch hints that Wei Wuxian was given a lot of corporal punishments, some of them of him taking the blame for others. If he was REALLY favored by the Sect leader, then would that have happened? Do you really think some flyaway words of praise is better than being whipped? And in canon there was ONE instance when JFM reprimanded JC, and that was because JC said that WWX should have left LWJ and JZX (ahem his a-jie's FIANCEE AND CLAN ALLY) to die, the rest are just normal father-son interaction, and when JFM tried to praise JC madam Yu was the one who cut him off.
@@limochou3410 JC was aware of their family dynamic and his father's supposed bias, but he never turned it into jealousy and genuinely liked WWX and kept on protecting him by reprimanding WWX of his rule breaking behavior, telling him to be careful later on because JC was worried for him. Even the scene where WWX first experiments with resentful energy he keeps on reminding his brother to stay on the good path but was very serious that one time because he really worried for his brother. But slowly and slowly, WWX's rebelliousness went from playing pranks, to experimenting with resentful energy and then defying the wei empire which's consequences were no longer of the level of the pranks they played a couple years ago. Even after all these warnings, they were just kind reminders from a genuinely loving brother and he never took it to heart, getting angry. Infact he somewhat supported his brother's rebellious nature, helping him rebel, also voicing his distain to the wei nation as well as to the harshness of their mother, but Imagine after all that, his rebellious nature to which to which he didn't mind but also wanted WWX to stop, ultimately ended up in everyone he knew being slaughtered, in front of his very eyes. His perfect home and childhood, burned, desecrated humiliated all in front of him. Even then JC's internal turmoil was that he still loved his brother, but how can he love someone that lead to the people he loved most, his friends, his city's people, thousands of families, men women and children who supported his family crest, slaughtered. If you best friend went out of line rebelled too hard or insulted the wrong people and it ended up getting your entire bloodline annihilated then you would question if he is really your best friend if he did not think of the potential consequences of his actions. JC is a tragedy. Even after, when WWX tried to save the few remaining Weis, sure JC could of done something, in fact he did, he spoke out to the council that these people have once saved his life but no one listened to him and in fact threatened JC own reputation, laughing at him how he could defend a clan that murdered his parents. The fact that JC spoke out to attempt to protect some Weis, who were responsible for everything he cared for being lost is already being too kind. After this he remained neutral and didn't go to punish the Wei's deliberately, but didn't protect them either. But what hurt him the most was WWX being to adamant to protecting these Weis. For another time, WWX defy's JC's advices, the question comes in, Does WWX really care about JC? He constantly ignores his advice, plays with him, hangs out less with him, had the gut to protect the people who murdered JC's blood parents. It feels for JC that WWX doesn't care as much about his (JC 's) parents who had in fact loved WWX more than JC, and he doesn't feel the pain of their loss as deeply as JC, maybe because he never was a part of the family in the first place.Maybe WWX feels less guilt because they weren't his blood parents but they were JC's blood parents. I could keep going but lets just end it with this. WWX was an outsider from the very beginning but by the end of the first season, who was WWX's best friend? JC. The person who has every reason to hate WWX, taking his father's love, being more talented than he is, constantly making rebellious decisions that get himself and potentially others in trouble, yet JC and WWX could not have been closer, even up until their entrapment in the cave where JC painstakingly ran all the way back home for reinforcements to save WWX (he couldve just let them die) only for WWX to be congratulated, praised more in front of him, making him feel even more sadder than he isn't as talented as his younger brother, yet JC still loved WWX all the way up to his mother whipping WWX until, when it lead to Jc losing everything he could have ever loved. And all those later contradictions between JC and WWX added up, further distancing JC's trust towards WWX. JC makes his every decision for his passed family, for his mother, father, friends and people but it seems that WWX no longer has his every decision driven by their shared past. Im not saying whose right, what I am saying is that JC cannot be blamed for anything and that in most times, what he does is perfectly justified and often the right, the HUMAN, the natural choice, unlike WWX more robot, logical and seemingly divine morality and decisions.
@@flyatnight-1812 Did we read the same novel, honestly? Let me remind you that before the fall of Lotus Pier, Qishan Wen has already attacked Qinghe Nie and Gusu Lan UNPROVOKED. And that as the indoctrination was happening, numerous medium and small sects were continuously being annexed - In a few adaptations, this was foreshadowed also by the Pingyang Yao sect leader coming to Lotus Pier with only one disciple because everyone else was just killed by the Wens. Did the Yao Sect provoke Qishan? Another refresher : Wang Lingjiao and Wen Zuliu was sent to Lotus Pier as an envoy to establish a surveillance office, but WHO actually attacked and provoked the envoy? Oh no, it was Madam Yu, who was much too prideful to be bossed around by someone of lower rank. Wei Wuxian's slight against Wen Chao has the consequences of Wang Lingjiao asking for him to be whipped, and he WAS whipped. If Madam Yu was not such a prideful bitch who put her pride above the lives of her constituent, then that would have been it. Wei Wuxian would be suitably punished, and Yunmeng becomes a supervisory office. That's it. And let's not be naive, MDZS has a complex and realistic setting. Whatever happens, the Wens WILL attack or annex Yunmeng Jiang because geographically they have most of the Southern waterways that's vital to trading. There is no way Qishan Wen would not want to claim Yunmeng if they want control and domination of the cultivation world. Please try to look beyond the teenage angst of a boy throwing a tantrum because he was not loved enough and see the political implications here. Also lmao at "JC cannot be blamed here" because it's "human" to react like that. honestly, that is VERY insulting towards many, many people who are trying very hard to overcome familial trauma and breaking out of the cycle of abuse. There are a lot of people with backgrounds like JC, but it's NOT normal for them to lash out to the point that JC did. It's NOT normal and "human" to blame others to the point of physically hurting them, it's NOT normal to ostracize the innocent just because of their name or just because they won't do what you say, it's NOT normal to lead a slaughter and torture of people just because "you lost things". I'm honestly worried about your standards of "humanity" and what abusive behaviors are "normal" and to be excused using mental health. Please be more respectful towards the concept of overcoming mental health problems and trauma, NOT everyone uses or justifies their abusive behavior like that.
@@limochou3410 1. They were threatening to cut wei wu xian's hand off, and that is why Madame Yu interjected, to protect WWX. 2. You put things in a realistic setting saying the takeover was inevitable but I doubt the clan wipe was intended. They wanted to set up observational stations for that particular reason. Clearly they aren't interested in killing everyone since Gusu clan was left alive and even if they needed a example, it didn't have to be Lotus Pier. 3. Familial trauma? Cycle of abuse? You realize his family is all dead, there is no familial trauma. 4. I'm just gonna assume you mean people who lost all their family, relatives and friends. You say it's not human to blame others to the point of physically hurting them. If ISIS killed everyone you know, I don't think you'd be trying to figure out who in ISIS is not evil. The best part is that you can't assume what is the "human" thing to do without experiencing it yourself. 5. Since you made everything realistic and deep, then you must also know that this is set within a time far before our age of information. These people have not pondered the ethics of war, genocide. To them, killing everyone in a clan that wronged you as punishment is the norm. If you were Jiang Chen, you'd take your revenge in exactly the same way, maybe even worse if you had no knowledge of the present day. 6. All this is to make a case for that I even think WWX is partially to fault for Jiang Chen's beliefs at the end of the anime. WWX never really became his right hand man, always ignored him to do alone what he believed in. This reminds me of something I just came across today is that, it is not enough just to be a martyr, you must also lead. WWX should have tried his best to convince JC to his cause at all costs however he just abandoned him when their philosophies differed but in reality, JC was not even that opposed to him in the first place. 7. Also Jiang Chen did nothing wrong. You talk about human this human that. Unless the tragedy happens to you, you cannot say what is the human thing to do, which is why you assume the worst case. I did say JC did the human thing because what JC did was better than the worst case of what a human can do so he is already way more human. Humanity can become very evil, either because of love, or greed. JC is honestly a very nice human being already.
Jiang Cheng's loyalty is what caused his downfall. Sure, his pride made him stubborn and cautious. But it was ultimately his unwavering loyalty to his family and clan that cost him everything. One of the main differences between himself and Wei Ying was that Wei Ying was willing to stand up and fight for anyone, while Jiang Cheng was not. His extreme loyalty prevented him from doing anything that might reflect badly on his clan or cause harm for his family. For him, they always came first and everything else took second or third place. It was why he cared so much about appearances and why he really did take his brothers actions (choosing to fight for other people, doing things that were considered unorthodox and made the other clans snub their noses at them) as betrayal. In his eyes, Wei Ying was choosing others over him and the side of their clan. He never really understood Wei Ying and that for Wei Ying there were no sides. Only people.
I love jiang cheng as a character so much. he’s arrogant, prideful to a fault, vengeful, cold to his loved ones, and holds a massive grudge. But he’s just as broken as any of the other characters, if not the most. He’s spent half his life torn between letting go of his past and forgiving, and keeping his precious pride, the only thing he really has left after everything he’s lost. And I love the way his arc ends on such a bitter note; just like how wei ying intended for jiang cheng to never find out about the golden core, jiang Cheng’s sacrifice will never be known by the other And their friendship can never go back to what it used to be, unless Jiang cheng learns to let go, apologize, and forgive. One manages to feel so much for him even while he always seems to be on the objectively morally “wrong” side of things.
Nunca me cansaré de repetirlo: JiangCheng tambien merecia tener un final feliz. Me parece hermoso que WeiYing ahora y para siempre tenga a LanZhan, aún y con todos los errores que cometio e incluso las muertes que provocó y que él mismo reconoce porque ¿quién no se equivoca? Eran tiempos de guerra y la campaña para derribal al sol fue terrible en muchos sentidos, asi que reitero; es muy bello que haya conseguido la tranquilidad y el amor incondicional en el segundo jade... Pero ¿y JiangCheng? ¡Claro que se equivocó! Allí hubo demasiados problemas de comunicación y los complejos que con tanta saña sus padres le enveneraron el corazón, pero es indiscutible el amor que JC le tiene a WWX porque WeiYing le dio su nucleo dorado, pero JiangCheng lo perdió por salvar la vida de WeiYing, él se sacrificó por él, por su hermano. ¿No es un poco lo mismo? WWX murio y JC tuvo que cargar con las secuelas de una posguerra sin absolutamente nadie de su familia o por lo menos de su generacion con él, una secta destruida y un sobrino huerfano al que criar. Si eso no es suficiente para tener empatia por el personaje, entonces no sé que lo sea. Solo uno de los dos orgullos de YunmengJiang tuvo su final feliz y eso siempre me deja una sensacion de tristeza. PD: ¡Tambien abogo por ti LanXiChen! ¡Tu tambien mereces ser feliz, nada de lo que ocurrió con tus hermanos jurados fue culpa tuya! PD2: NieHuaisang es un crack, da miedo el hombre.
¿Sabes porque WWX si tuvo un final feliz? porque el si acepto todos y cada uno de sus errores, lo que JC en toda su vida nunca a podido hacer (ni creo que pueda). Su relacion ya no es la misma a falta de comunicación y otras mil cosas mas. Otra cosa ¿Cuándo perdió su núcleo por "salvarlo"'? Lo perdió por su Inmadurez, egocentrismo, el ser irracional y obstinado. Claramente WWX le dijo que no saliera del "escondite" en el que estaban, ese fue el motivo por lo cual lo perdió, WWX no estuvo en peligro para que JC pudiera salvarlo. No digo que JC no halla sufrido, ¡por lucifer! perdió a toda su familia y se volvió líder de toda una secta estando solo y siendo un niño! Pienso que WWX no le debe nada, mas que el amor de hermanos que en un pasado le entrego y la crianza y el techo que FM le dio. Mas en cambio creo que JC le debe mucho a su hermano. PD: Soy la defensora e abogada de Wei Wuxian. 😌 Estoy deacuerdo con lo que dijiste de Lan Xichen, el no tuvo la culpa de nada de lo que paso con sus hermanos.
@@gretaparini2269 Amiga no entiendo tu comentario, es evidente mi preferencia por Jiang Cheng asi como la tuya por Wei Wuxian... entonces ¿comentas que deje de preferir a JC y desear su felicidad porque WWX es... mejor persona? En verdad no entiendo, estoy segura de que no mencioné nada en contra del personaje de WWX (es mi 2do personaje favorito despues de JC por supuesto) asi que... ¿por qué la aclaración de las razones por las que JC no tuvo un final feliz y WWX si? La comparación en ese sentido se me hace hasta un poquito cruel. Entiendo que a muchas personas no les gusta JC y es muy respetable, para gustos colores, no pasa nada pero... criticar a JC en un comentario de una fan de JC... ¿No es esa una mentalidad de hater? Sobre el sacrificio de JC por WWX y que como consecuencia Jiang Cheng perdio su nucleo dorado... me siento confundida, en la novela se menciona en el capitulo 110 y en la animación tambien se da a entender perfectamente como ocurrio ese incidente, asi que... no entiendo tu comentario al respecto, basicamente una negación al respecto. Literalmente JC vio venir a los Wen en el lugar en donde estaba esperando a WWX y se puso a salvo, pero inmediatamente despúes vio a los Wen ir hacia donde WWX estaba comprando, JC supo que descubririan a su hermano y por eso salió de su escondite, el deliberadamente llamó la atencion de esos malditos para que WWX no estuviera en peligro, luego sucedio lo que todos sabemos, perdió su nucleo dorado. Ese secreto JC se lo lleva a la tumba y es algo que a los fans del personaje, nos duele mucho. Mi comentario no se trato de si WWX le debe algo a JC o viceversa, simplemente que desearia de todo corazón que mi personaje favorito tuviera un final feliz al igual que el protagonista, su hermano. Asi que reitero una vez más, no entiendo tu comentario amiga.
Que bonito es encontrar a una fan de JC que, a pesar de amor al personaje, acepta que el también cometió errores, y estoy infinitamente de acuerdo con cada una de tus palabras, ambos merecían un final feliz, por todo lo que pasaron ambos necesitaban una superación, no hubo comunicación, el secreto que JC guardo para no darle más dolor a su hermano y que Wei no sintiera que le debía a JC , dado que el se sacrifico para que Wei no fuera capturado y tuviera el destino, algo que también hizo Wei al entregar su núcleo. Eso fue una hermandad viva, sacrificarse por salvar al otro; realmente lamento el final de su relación aunque siento que seria bueno dejar el pasado y dar dos conclusiones, la uno seria tratar de remendar los fragmentos o simplemente seguir en la vida, puede que ya no como hermano ni como amigos, solo como personas que alguna vez compartieron vida pero es más difícil.
This scene is in my top 5 F* u moments...@4:41 Lan Zhan had enough of JC angry outburst at his Wei Ying. This is the moment I knew LZ would have killed him if not for WY sakes, he gave him that STFU energy blast, knocking his topknot off.
Lan Zhan : tu a mi esposa no le hablas así! Me dió pena Jiang Cheng pero él juzgó mal a Wei Ying aún conociéndolo y Lan Zhan sin embargo siendo más lejano le creyó y estuvo a su lado.
"You said you'd never betray me" My broski that was before you stood around letting innocent bystanders be tortured and enslaved for the sake of your reputation
Este capítulo siempre me deja un sabor amargo...que triste...Jiang Cheng...siempre luchando por sobresalir, intentando demostrar su valía tratando de superar al otro cuando en realidad sólo debía superarse a si mismo... y se entera del sacrificio que no pidió pero que fue otorgado por un alma generosa y desprendida...la de su hermano de corazón...Siempre pensé que le faltó coraje para proteger con toda su alma a Wei Wixiang, aunque si lo hizo sin decir nada, a su manera. Pero y si lo hubiera hecho demostrando al mundo entero que creía y apoyaba a su hermano quizás se hubieran convertido en el clan más poderoso...y he aquí el gran problema ...no vivir en la sombra opacado por el brillo del otro...
Lo dudo aunque me hubiera gustado, si jc apoyaba a wwx seria tachado de traidor y yunmmeng totalmente destruida, el mundo esta demaciado mal, no lo hubiese dejado ni levantarse de los escombros
Yo creo no sería tan así, ya que el mismo Jin Guang Yao le dice a Jiang Cheng que si él le hubiera tenido más fe a su hermano y si lo hubiera respaldado las cosas tal vez no habrían sido de esa forma. Porque todos esos extras :) se aprovecharon del carácter de Jiang Cheng haciéndolo sentir menos que Wei Ying y de alguna forma lograron que se distanciaran cuando WY de llevó a los Wen a los Tumulos Funerarios. Además Nie Ming Jue no estaba en contra de Wei Ying sino que compartía sus principios. Wei Ying habría tenido el apoyo del clan Jiang, del clan Nie y hasta tal vez el de Gusu y las demás son sectas menores, por lo tanto irrelevantes. Las cosas si habrían sido algo distintas y no entre los clanes porque a las finales el clan Jin seguiría queriendo poder, pero la relación de WY y JC no se habría roto tanto.
@@natyrosales0453 Entiendo tu punto pero esta equivocado la idea,el mismo Yao le dice a Jiang chen que si hubiese apoyado a Wei ying,con la fuerza incomparable que Wei ying había adquirido y la creciente fuerza del del clan de Jiang chen hubiese sido un tatequieto para los demás clanes,porque los comentarios de que no eran cercanos hubiesen sido de inmediatos tumbados y lo pensarian dos veces antes de atacar a uno de ellos sabiendo que tendrían que enfrentarse a ambos,y el respeto hacia Jiang Cheng hubiese aumentado,porque hubiesen visto que el no sólo es fuerte por Wei ying sino que puede digirir su secta bien y defender a sus subordinados cuando se requiere,y no lo hubiesen visto como un tonto que no puede detener a su subordinado. Y eventualmente hubiesen respetado a Jiang chen por tener de subordinado a alguien tan fuerte. Todo era de pensar,hablar y apoyarse mutuamente y al final hubiesen ganado más de lo que perdieron por separarse y pelear entre ellos.
el mismo Yao le dice a Jiang chen que si hubiese apoyado a Wei ying,con la fuerza incomparable que Wei ying había adquirido y la creciente fuerza del clan de Jiang chen hubiese sido un tatequieto para los demás clanes,porque los comentarios de que no eran cercanos hubiesen sido de inmediatos tumbados y lo pensarian dos veces antes de atacar a uno de ellos sabiendo que tendrían que enfrentarse a ambos,y el respeto hacia Jiang Cheng hubiese aumentado,porque hubiesen visto que el no sólo es fuerte por Wei ying sino que puede digirir su secta bien y defender a sus subordinados cuando se requiere,y no lo hubiesen visto como un tonto que no puede detener a su subordinado. Y eventualmente hubiesen respetado a Jiang chen por tener de subordinado a alguien tan fuerte. Todo era de pensar,hablar y apoyarse mutuamente y al final hubiesen ganado más de lo que perdieron por separarse y pelear entre ellos.
I think the voiceactor did such a great job bringing JC his emotions over, ive read the novel and really wanted to know how they would bring this to life and I am very pleasently suprised how well its done!
La verdad siento que a Jiang Cheng le hará bien la reclusión. Necesita relajarse y procesar no solo esto de lo que se acaba de enterar, sino también sanar las heridas. Él necesita meditar y tomarse un tiempo para dejar fluir y solar todo lo malo.
Bueno creo que estan un poco equivocadas sin ofender pero creo que el ya estuvo demasiado tiempo solo aún con gente alrededor, él busco al wei para que le dijera la verdad el por qué se alejaba de él, siempre quiso a su hermano cerca, el Wei nunca se dejó ayudar y eso que la uva se lo decía claro, en cambio el otro actuó despreocupado sin responsabilidad siempre mintiendo, cuando volvió a la vida le seguía huyendo, eso le dolió más. Creo que a veces es mejor afrontar los problemas y resolverlos con la persona involucrada, sin terceros. Esa era la mejor manera de curar sus heridas y poder seguir adelante. Orgulloso no creo que fuera. Tuvo que hacerse de un carácter y fama para evitar que hicieran menos su clan y sacar a su gente adelante a pesar de estar sólo y recuperó a su sobrino tratando de darle todo el amor que podía aún en su tremendo dolor. Siento que nunca tuvo tiempo de tener duelo porque su vida solo fue de perdidas desde pequeño.
@@jadaine8325 If I remember correctly, it's around in 80 chapters and up, I think. Preferrably around 88 or 89. Somewhere around those chapters about that scene. ^_^
I think death really mellowed Wei Wuxian out quick. Yet the one man who saw him as his own brother didn't stand by him in the beginning nor did Lan Wangji. LW was the FIRST to correct that wrong while JC spread more hate that thankfully his nephew, as time went on, kicked the hate to the curb and wanted to know his uncle that was gone so long. In the chibi shorts, Jin Ling even told Fairy that JC's attitude and harshness would get him nowhere. JC has the chance to do the same LW did, but instead, he insulted him and tried to smear his name in the ground once more. I also read that LW knocking the headpiece off was symbolic as if to say JC had one more word to utter toward Wei Wuxian before LW would strike and kill JC. That was basically a warning shot to JC to shut up while you still can.
@@eastbow6053 That I couldn't say, the author never said how he was in the afterlife except I think Wei Wuxian did say something of it being dark and lonely. So that's a big 13 year gap that no one knows and I doubt the man would even talk on if the author did like a midquel series or something.
The fact that Jiang Cheng losing his golden core because he tried to save Wei Ying is just so heartbreaking. In the end, whether it’s Wei Ying or Jiang Cheng who lose their golden core, the ending will be the same
Yup. Meanwhile, imagine jc blaming himself deep down for causing all these problems with wy... if wy didn't lose his golden core, he wouldn't have done demonic cultivation in the first place. and everything that happened after, wouldn't have taken place the way it did. He's so emotionally constipated
Honestly Wen Ning has every right to be this angry, and Lan Wangji's gesture of knocking off Jiang Cheng's Guan was right on the nose since for all his mania for status and honor, Jiang Cheng IS a dishonorable man seen from the very values he adhered to. Jiang Cheng goes on and on about the debts Wei Wuxian owed him, but never ONCE considered that he himself owed Wen Ning and Wen Qing a life debt for saving them and retrieving his parents' bodies IN A TIME OF WAR. Never ONCE did he consider that Wei Wuxian gave his precious boon (false as it is) to an Immortal Master and won him the war that took back Lotus Pier. Debts only exist when it should be paid to him, how honorable is that? :D And the commenters nodding your head that "Wei Wuxian was to blame for the fall of Lotus Pier and Yanli's death", like did you just skip all the worldbuilding and political nuances of the series? It's so clear that the Wens were on a warpath to put down all the large sects that might go in their way, and Lotus Pier has always been in danger whatever happens. Why is no one blaming Yu Ziyuan instead who actually attacked the Wen messenger because she was a too-proud bitch? Out of some weird filial feelings towards your "mother in law", ha? And all y'all not even seeing Yanli as a human being with choices when it was her who decided to go into a battlefield UNARMED by her own free will - Like please, inherent misogyny is a thing but female characters DO have agency as well aside from being fodder for the male characters' manpain. Stop using her conscious sacrifice as merely a token to blame stuff on others like Jiang Cheng did!
People are so insistent on drinking the JC-produced Kool-Aid that the fall of Lotus Cove was 100% WWX's fault, while in every version Wang Lingjiao came to Lotus Pier to subdue the Jiangs. It was only after WLJ said that Lotus Pier would be turned into a Supervisory office and the Jiangs would be under HER control that Yu Ziyuan legitimately attacked her, which dominoed into everyone getting slaughtered. Previously she was just fine and dandy whipping WWX, and only at the slightest nudge to her pride did she ruin things. And while we're at it, can we talk about how INCOMPETENT the Yunmeng Jiang leaders are? They've known that two out of the non-Wen great sects have been attacked without provocation nor warning, but they have ZERO defense plans and evacuation plans? It's so easy to blame a teeenager huh, but soooo difficult to see when rich and powerful people don't do their jobs properly!
One of the few comments with common sense in this video. Also, for the one constantly talked about debts like JC, that dude didn't do anything to repay the debt he owned the Wen siblings and even Wei Wuxian, as if he thinked entitled to their helps.
they really were just kids caught up in terrible circumstances. my heart cant take how much love they really had for one another. so many misunderstandings, dont hate jiang, he was just a kid in a cruel world. edit: i know this comment is receiving a lot of criticism so i just want to clear some things. first jiang is not justified for all the things that he did or continues to do to wei ying. he definitely owes him an apology. second yes he did all these things to his brother as an adult. the kid i mentioned was when he lost everything at the age of 18. when i was 18 i didnt understand the importance of family, if i had lost mine in such a tragic way i would have lost my mind and hated every person who so much as looked at me. now that im 26 and i have been through loss, i understand that i cant just take out my anger and hurt on everyone. no matter how much i just want to scream at people i have to remember its not their fault my best friend died and that the rest of my friends made poor decisions that made them go away. its not their fault that im alone, life happens and i will continue to live every moment like its my last. no matter how much life hurts. all i wanted to say is that i understand how he came to be and i dont hate him for it. thank you for listening. im going to go and smile through the tears. have a great day beautiful people.
I dislike Jiang Cheng because he showed no integrity when the Wen elders and children were being killed. He owed Wen Ning and Wen Qing a great deal even without knowing about the golden core. JC went the easy route and turned his back on the weak and helpless, making an enemy out of Wei Ying himself.
LOL what he was 21 something when he decided to murder his "supposedly" brother. Anyone with half a heart can tell that's wrong, especially after he lied and said WWX betrayed and go against ALL the other cultivation sects. Like what the fuck, I never understand why people think he's misunderstood, he made his choices, clearly and without remorse. Think about it, XUE YANG regretted killing Xiao Xingchen, a man he met like what, a few years? He tried to bring him back to life, even go after WWX to restore his soul. JC gladly murdered WWX AND had zero issue whipping MXY with the whip that was supposedly be able to whip out the soul in case someone is possesed. HE KILLED WWX AND WILLING TO DO IT AGAIN!!!!!! He murdered many demonic cultivators for the sin of following WWX's path despite the fact they're innocent (he never went after Xue Yang because guess what, he's a fucking coward who murders weaker folks and afraid of going after anyone with power). Lol say what you want, there are zero love between them, and I'm super glad at the end of the novel WWX finally understand there can be no overlap for their paths - one is evil, one is good. Even the author said she was afraid JC would overshadowed XY as a villain, how on earth do people still think he's good? jfc
Oh wow, standards for humanity has really dropped to sub-basement levels, huh? Was it "kid" behavior to disembowel your shixiong and declare him an enemy of the cultivation world, FULLY KNOWING that he only harbors elderlies and a kid? Kid behavior to go and slay a whole settlement of them? To hunt down random people and torture them with a first-class spiritual tool to let out anger? To neglect calls for help? What the fuck kind of kids are you around, Erika?
I despise JC as much as Lanzhan does, because he betrayed his own clan rules, betrayed the people that saved his life several times, betrayed wei ying time and time again while wei ying was doing the right thing, and after that, he took to his own hands to raise their nephew to hate wei ying. A horrible human being. I'm so glad wei ying is out of his grasp for good and with people that truly care and love him.
@@rombongbong At that point of history, JC thought WWX was the reason his brother-in-law and his sister died, leaving his 1 month-old nephew orphan. Before her sister was killed, JC was still willing to cover his brother for the death of JZ, and asked WWX to abandon the Wens not because he didn't care, but because he feared that if WWX continued down that path, he couldn't be able to protect him any longer, because he couldn't contain the hatred of the 4 clans. Then WWX asked him to not do it, as he didn't want to be a burden for JC. When WN and WQ voluntarily got caught in exchange for the death of JZ, it wasn't JC but rather a bunch of people around him who called for the death of WWX. All of that changed when their sister died. If we take the perspective of JC, he cares more about his family than the rest (which is a very common trait among humans). Because WWX first saved LWJ and the girl, the whole clan got killed. Then, because WWX tried to protect the Wens and attacked the Jins, the political situation turned against him once again, leading to the death of his sister. The pain JC felt was basically unbearable for him at this point, as in his perspective he warned WWX about this, and he didn't listen. He didn't even know about the reason why he decided to choose the demonic path depsite how dangerous it was. JC is a much more rational thinker and will first think about those he cares about. WWX will act for what he thinks is right first, usually without thinking (or caring basically) about the consequences of his actions. From my perspective, there is no "good" or "bad" here. Just tragedy. One guy wanted to protect those he loved the most but in the end couldn't because the other guy wanted to protect everyone and failed to. Also, it has been confirmed that JC didn't technically kill WWX although he was leading the campaign against him. While not clearly stated, a popular theory in the fanbase is that WWX died while destroying the tiger amulet. So yes, JC is not "evil", tragic circumstances made him hate WWX as much as he loves him.
I honestly loved this part so much both in the drama,book, and anime you can really see how Lan Wanji feels and I love that seeing as how normally he looks just like a statue-💀 You can clearly see his anger at the end when he shuts Jiang cheng up and how hurt Wei Wuxian is but most importantly you can also see how hurt and betrayed jiang cheng feels, how left in the dark he feels I’m literally crying they all deserve the world 😭😭😭
If Zuko can do it, JC could. I'm mad for his behavior of pride and selfishness because he's too cowardly to face up his own abusive traits. That's sad for him. Hopefully one day he can reflect on that and so, not being alone with his resentment.
Zuko really worked hard and he actually WANTED to change - I think that's the crux of it. Jiang Cheng has had more than a decade to think over what happened and perhaps let go of the resentment or channel it into something good, but the truth is that he just doesn't want to. If you compare it with Lan Wangji, he also had the reason to be as resentful and angry as Jiang Cheng, but he used his own tragedies to build himself into someone who could instead prevent something like that ever happening again. And that's why Hanguang-Jun here really deserves to knock over Jiang Cheng's guan like that.
@@namih190 Hear hear! Many redemption arcs are rocky and messy, but the point of it is that the character has to want it. JC never felt like he ever did anything wrong, as it's somehow always WWX's fault that anything wrong happens, and if you don't acknowledge your faults then you'll never be able to change. It's that simple.
the only mistake aCheng has is actually not listening aXian, the only mistake aXian has is actually not telling aCheng, deep down they really care about each other, that's the differences they have compared to xincheng and lan zhan,,😫
@@ggerdagg uhm, in novel wwx didn't killed by JC, but wwx kill himself when destroy Yin Hufu. Indeed JC the one who lead the rebellion against wwx but, in the end he couldn't kill wwx, then wwx kill himself.
@Jade River jin zixuan was a dumbass who told wei wuxian to put down his weapon when 300 hundreds of archers were shooting at him. Jin zixuan was trying to restrain wei ying when repeatedly to him to not come closer And so he got killed!! So you remember that honey?? You sound like sect leader yao trying to shit on wei ying
Tbh I've seen a lot of fan discourse where Wen Ning is supposedly "mean" towards JC in this scene and that he has "no rights" to shame JC for something he "didn't know". Like what kind of drivel is that? Wen Ning has EVERY SINGLE RIGHT! Boy was little more than a teen when he risked being booked for treason by helping hide Wei Wuxian and the Jiangs and then recovering the Jiang parents' bodies during a war, not counting the whole core transfer mess where. Here you can see the quality difference between Lan Xichen, who was forever indebted and acknowledged JGY's help in hiding him (even though the stakes were WAY lower for JGY) and JC who's just "omg who dis" even knowing the Wen siblings helped him with his LIFE. Like okay sure he's a smol wooby bean who doesn't have any power after the war, BUT remember that JC actively persecutes WWX and the Wens by declaring them the enemy of the cultivation world and headed the siege even knowing everyone were just non-cultivators. JC is a guy who sees a toddler and be like, eh, he deserves to die for carrying the name Wen. Wen Ning deserves the world and he CERTAINLY deserves to slap manchild sandu sengshou with the observation of what a lacking person he is (Plus a combo of HGJ rightfully knocking over his guan because hon, money and your family name does NOT make you a honorable person :p)
when i read this part it felt sooo unbearable, i was never even expecting such a thing from wei ying. it was at that point i truly understood how highly he viewed the family who had adopted him, raised and taken care of him. This one scene right here tied my feelings to the book. Just Amazing
menurutku, wwx punya akhir yang bahagia karena dia mengakui kesalahanya, menerima apa yang terjadi, dan berusaha meperbaiki kesalahan, dia juga berusaha memberi tahu pada semua orang sisi lain dari kisah yang sebenarnya. sedangakan jiang cheng memiliki akhir yang kurang bahagia karena dia masih belum bisa menerima apa yang terjadi, dia belum bisa menerima kesalahannya sendiri bahkan dia terlalu menyalahkan wwx , dia kurang percaya diri, dia terlalu insecure, dia terlalu di butakan oleh kisah yang hanya dia lihat tapi dia tidak melihat sisi lain dari kisah yang sebenarnya, dia juga sangat menyangi wwx namun cara penyampaian rasa sayangnya kurang pas. aku tahu pasti gak rela sahabat masuk ke jalan yang salah, tapi kata katanya yang di ucapkan jiang cheng ke wwx malah membuat seolah olah semua masalah dibuat oleh wwx, disini dia dibuat seolah olah dia lupa kesalahannya dan kesalahan orang orang di sekitarnya. yaaaaa dia punya tempramen yang kurang baik. ini sangat menyedihkan ketika mengingat masa masa mereka dahulu, membuat hatiku sangat sakit. aku harap mereka yang pantas bahagia mendapatkan kebahagiaaanya
everyone in mdzs owes someone something… but we all agree the whole cultivation world owes wen ning and wen qing an apology which they’ll never get 😤😤 I’ll slander everyone but wen ning and wen qing
Well, the anime made it be like Jc never could forgive Wwx or care for him. But in the novel, this scene happen before Guangyao death, in the temple, Jc come to save them and gets a Blade on his chest bc he thought that Yao was going to hurt Wwx, so he thinked in him first and got hurt. Then he shout out how hurt he was be Wwx betrayal, how much he wanted Wwx to had trust him and tell him what was going on, and Wwx got sad bc he was trying to avoid this scene at most, but in the end, he couldn't.
Thank you for the reminder; I've actually just re-read the novel chapters and indeed JC acknowledged his hurt, and apologized to WWX, who in turn apologized for breaking his promise. However, (based on the english version I read) he went to the temple after (yet another) quarreling with JL and got injured due to JGY's sly diversionary tactics. They got their closure. And after the battle he wanted to approach WWX to explain why he got caught by Wen troops but couldn't bring himself to do it. When I have the time I will re-read the original Mandarin version which has more nuances that English language cannot express. Yet again, I'm reminded of how impressed I am by the writer Mo Xiang Tong Xiu! She was very young when she wrote this novel yet has so much insight into the complexities of human nature and relationships.
Está escena me desgarra el alma, no importa cuántas veces la vea/lea.😭 Aunque les quedó muy hermoso estoy un poco despecionada que no tuvieran su "cierre" en esta adaptación (Wei Ying no escuchara las palabras de Jiang Cheng, ni el la disculpa de Wei Ying) pero bueno al menos la carta del festival lunar deja entrever que ellos si hablan y se visitan frecuentemente. 💔
Holi, disculpa pero podrías contarme si ellos hacen las pases o algo así? Leí el libro hace mucho tiempo y no me acuerdo si quedan bien, o si JC no le vuelve a hablar mas.
@@susanahoria5149 en el libro no sale más que la disculpa, pero por el festival lunar chino de este año publicaron una carta de Lan Zhan a Wei Ying dónde entre varias cosas, hablaba que habían pasado más de 2 años y se quejaba de que Jiang Cheng lo dejaba entrar sin razón y era siempre muy ruidoso en los Recesos de la Nube. Por eso es que se especula que su relación ya sea medianamente normal.
Jc considered Wei Wuxian as his subordinate, someone he can rely on but what Wei needed was someone who stood by his side no matter what the world says. JC thought wei Wuxian will say everything to him infact Jc never understood Wei Wuxian. The only one who did is Lan Zhan!
Well of course WWX was JC's subordinate in the YMJ Sect. What else could he be, considering that a Sect can't have two leaders. Jiang Yanli was also JC's subordinate before her marriage. On his side no matter what? When WWX didn't even have the common sense to give a half-way decent, reasonable explanations for his actions after he gave JC his word that he would support JC? Considering how badly WWX misread the whole situation with JGS, it would be more right to say that WWX never understood JC.
I feel for JC also. He was always with wei while growing up and played together. Lost his golden core for wei. Lost his parents his beloved sister and his brother in law. But unaware of wei sacrifice and believed what people talked about wei during war. But lz is always for wei 😘😍💞
Even after knowing the truth JC still wanted Wei Wuxian to apologise to him for not keeping the promise of forever being together as subordinate. But did JC ever thought him as a brother. No he never. He always said you promised to be my subordinate. And now too when the truth was out that wwx hadn't intentionally killed JZ. Jc still blames him for that. It wasn't wwx problem that JF was a bad dad or MY was a bad mom. Yet he always did everything he could to protect his sibilings. Even JY she could have talked to her husband or brother. She went to show her wedding dress but never tried to talk to wwx. And I think when thought carefully lwj was the only person who ever trusted wwx even when he didn't really had known wwx. They both only knew each other from three months of class. And after cave and lotus Pier burning wwx had changed completely. He was very rude and never tried to understand lwj. So I think his siblings who knew him for so long should have atleast trusted him and not abandoned him.
JC is THE perfect representation of the common rich, entitled man in power at that period. HIS feelings, honor, and good name is the most important thing, people are not people to him, just props to serve and cater to him.
@Historia That's the sort of excuse abusers use. WWX may understand but it is clear he is still hurt and hurt deeply by JC's cruel version of love. WWX will he happier without him in his life.
@@IncredibleLyrics oh he was just bad at expressing it you say? Then,pray tell me, how does abusing and leading a siege against a person be considered as an act of love?
I've always felt that it's very insulting towards JYL that JC framed her death as WWX's fault. Protecting WWX was her CHOICE, she's a person too with agency and the ability of thinking and choosing, but JC rendered her simply a victim who was just there. JYL deserved better and deserved to be seen as a PERSON.
@@ratri3319 And she literally enter into a camp of massacre,in a way or other she would have been killed,like it was going to happen anyway and the person who provoce the battle was not Wei ying but the others clans and Jiang chen himself.
Sinceramente yo creo que JC actuó de esta manera es por que estaba celoso para quien no haya leído la novela justamente en esta escena LZ y WWX venían de estar abrazados bajo un árbol y JC los siguió para hablar con WWX sin embargo cuando los vio abrazados ahí se dio cuenta de que su hermano ya nunca volveria a estar a su lado creo que le entraron celos ya que sabía que ahora WWX ya tenía alguien, y por eso trato tan mal a LZ ya que lo vio como la persona que le quito a su hermano.
Often he criticized Wei & always sided w/ others instead of the brother he grew up with. Wei had his back for years but when his brother still sided w/ other disgruntled & jealous clan leaders instead of support Wei & some of the good Wen family who saved & helped him & the Jiang family it was a sad reflection of the kind of person he evolved into. Jiang did not pick up his father’s understanding or his sister’s good graces just the jealous & angry behavior & attitude of his mother. Wei gave what was best of him to save his brother & to maintain the Jains Clan legacy but this man is still consumed with his loss & anger; blaming him for not sticking around to be further mocked & criticized. That’s family for you sometimes. You give & you give. Sometimes at the end, you have strive for you own happiness. That is what is doing w/ Lan. Wei has already given enough of himself to everyone.
Their misunderstanding destroyed their friendship forever. Weiying being asked many time by others 'why he didnt wield his sword?' If someone ask me like this, made my heart being torn too pieces for soo many time. He want to answer that question, but couldnt. Make his heart broken to pieces because he has to repeat the same answer for many time. I cried a lot though...😭😭😭 When saw the 1st episode, fell like comedy story. But, continue until 3rd volume make me criednlike crazy. It's about friendship between them, but one of them lost trust to his friend because of misunderstanding from others. Then, broke up their relationship. Soo sad.. The love story btwn Weiying & Lanzhan also made my heart broken too.. Lanzhan still waiting for Weiying even after 16years. This is why i love this story sooo much. ❤
To be honest. Weiying in a really twisted sort of fate kind of way did keep his promise. He may not have been physically there but I would think the giving of one’s golden core to the one they were subordinate to is the most loyal thing you could do.
That part where Jiang Cheng's hair came undone could've been a L'oreal commercial. But L'oreal is not ready for such magnificence.
Oh damn u made my mood Better
him w his hair down is so hot bro
Was sobbing like there is no tomorrow but then your comment ....🖐🏻😂😂😭
Best comment
Min?
The fact that Wei Wuxian just stood there and took everything that Jiang Cheng was saying, not once defending himself. To the point where it started to anger Lan Wangji which lead him to protect the man that he loved by making Jiang Cheng shut up
Both Lan Zhan and Wei Ying only speak up in defense of the other. Truly us against the world trope for most of the anime, expertly showcased. Lan Zhan spends most of seasons 2 and 3 protecting Wei Ying, be it from physical or verbal attacks. Such a really well written relationship
I understand why WWX couldn’t say anything. Because what JC said is true. WWX knows what he did deeply hurt JC, Shijie and the whole Family. But the difference between him and JC is that he accepted it and moved on, but JC couldn’t.
@@qiwang7686 o
If one never gets the chance to express the hurt to the person who hurt them either by words, actions or someone else doing it for them like wei did (others also marked his pain as valid, even the Jiangs father acknowledged wei)Wei. Then one can't move on... it becomes venomous. Even in this scene no one acknowledges Jiangs feelings, wei could have said one word but instead let's others shut Jiangs feelings(words) instead. Sometimes it's better to just listen.
By throwing his shoe?
Im speechless too 😂
@@mommabutterfly496 honestly your right Jiang cheng felt betrayed and honestly you can’t blame him. He begged wwx to come home multiple time and he didn’t but you also can’t blame wwx either.. I just feel like wwx should have said something to show him accepting and understanding jiang cheng feelings
“ Did you know that you would never have been able to surpass him?” I feel this was one of the reasons Jiang Chen grew to be so hostile to Wei Ying, he knew this.
Yes, jealousy 😊, it's actually one of the biggest reason why friendships can break easily 💔.
If anyone noticed, he at last admitted it by saying, "That I deserve to live in your shadows, blinded by your light?!" That's actually the real starter of his hatred towards WWX. We all can see a lil bit of his jealousies during the flashbacks even before the bad Wens tragedy. We do not need the bad Wens to do anything, he himself will actually snapped out to WWX even if the bad Wens were not involved. For example: Su She who's jealous of LWJ, what he did? Same things with a different contexts.
It was also the reason why it was so easy for JGY to manipulate him
@@nurarazak7593 exactly
Which is fair. I suppose because it reflects a reality of life. Some people are naturally better at things, even if other work harder.
I haven't watched the show in its entirety so I don't know about this accuratey. However, my take is that he's worked hard for his abilities. Maybe just as hard as WWX. However, he still can't beat him in anything. Think about it, and to have him go out and goof off all day? You work so hard, and this person gets to have fun all day. That must be unbearable.
Of course the solution is to understand that competition isn't everything and they grew up together but it's still understandable.
It was worsen by the nudging of his mother. Another common reality for parents to nudge for their children to be the best.
@@halfway7690 if you mean nudge by emotionally poisoning him that his father hates him because he hates her. (Neither which is true) and the fact his dad is a bit of a coward in running away from his personal problems instead of confronting them. Though that is more to do with the time period expectations of men. They deal with it by ignoring it and not talking
This novel in all it's various incarnations is a masterful web of complex characters. Reading everyone's comments about Jiang Cheng has been very interesting; I see that he's not emotionally mature - still needy for external validations even after so many years. I also see the youth who was deeply hurt that his closest confidant/brother chose outsiders over him, but his pride prevented him from admitting it and he only focused on the impact to his family.
The realistic thing about MDZS is how you are only expected to be emotionally mature if you don't have the privilege of the gentry. Jiang Wanyin got away with being a manchild torturing and killing people and neglecting his constituents because he has money, power, and influence. Meanwhile the Wen siblings and Wei Wuxian are expected to keep a level head and think about everyone's wellbeing even while they are literally starving and hunted like dogs. People jeer at WWX and WN losing control even when they are cornered. The truth is when you don't have privilege, you're just supposed to take everything directed t you and not complain to be "mature" while rich people get excused for atrocities by saying "Oh he was deeply hurt as a youth".
👌😢
@@Mina-wb1dz oh, I agree with that! It's obvious with NMJ's conflict with JGY. Nothing excuses JGY, but the standards the rich, strong, influential NMJ initially set for him were pretty vexing for me, TBH. NMJ would never tolerate being disrespected like that, but JGY is just supposed to take it quietly, be nice and hope the situation magically fixes itself. Eyerolled at that.
@@Mina-wb1dzYou are so right. The rich have "quirks" that you just have to nod and accept. Like JGS' promiscuity or NMJ black and white world view to JW torture spree. But the moment a commoner thought or did any of these things you know they would be quickly denounced and killed for it.
He loves him so much. There is no argument about it. But his self esteem is so fickle to the point it eventually led the doom to those who are closest to him.
I think this is where him and lan zhan differ. He never gave a fuck since the beginning. Lan Zhan is so strong and so vulnerable at the same time.
I believe JC did see WWX as a brother in the past, but that's also because JYL is there to glue them together.
after JYL's death, the originally frail relationship between JC & WWX eventually broke.
JC had always trusted in the promise WWX give him, but not WWX himself.
That's a shame, really...
they were such good brothers in the past...
ur comment is so inderrated x) like srsly that one sentence (believed in his promise but not his person thing?) that’s so deep!
You know this makes sense.
At least at the end of the novel it's implied that they're at least on good terms again.
@@superjuice4349 really? At which part???
@@julycat2650 the very last chapter. Wei Ying and Lan Zhan are in Yungmeng. It's been a while since I've read the novel, I think Wei Ying was at least highly discouraged from ever going back. So them being there implies that Jiang Cheng allowed him to return.
The only thing I wished in this story was for WWX to stop blaming himself for everything. Sometimes you have to stand up for yourself against the people you love. And that's the best for you and him too. It's not a sin.
Sometimes you really have to stand up for yourself against the people you love 🥲🥲
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Everybody hardly listens to him, so I guess he gave up, they're all prideful and very 'mighty'to understand his position
@@Sam-kl7zw ok but still there is his self-sacrificing part
True because sometimes they hurts you intentionally /unintentionally
Truly pitied the guy. He could have been such an amzing person. Too bad his mother messed him up. Continuously comparing them, using the both of them to vent her jealousy and making him too prideful. His father could have tried harder too but he didn,t because he favored Wei Wu Xian too much.
I have to laugh at people saying that JFM "Favored Wei Wuxian" when it was textually clear that Wei Wuxian got whipped and punished arbitrarily all the time. If JFM truly favored Wei Wuxian, then he would care of the basic safety of the boy and would have stopped the many punishment as a sect leader. This is textbook abuse bystander behavior - You give more praise or meaningless attention to an abused person because you DON'T want to risk yourself and help in a meaningful way - What use is a few words of praise or a pat on the head when you're whipped? Truly fandom is sometimes very much reflective of how we treat abused children "Oh but the other person was nice to him, surely he was not abused" and that's how we get so many dead children on our hands.
@@Mina-wb1dz the truth has been spoken
No one knows how much embittered words and comparisons will plant evil roots into the hearts of those who are subject to its comparisons.
No one knows how much embittered words and comparisons will plant evil roots into the hearts of those who are subject to its comparisons.
@@Mina-wb1dz honey I am seeing you everywhere taking out absolutr bs over JC. I get it you are a WWX stan... So I guess u kinda should leave and give ur 'biased' opinion someplace else.
No importa en cuál versión o adaptación lo veas, está escena siempre es demasiado triste.
Confirmo T.T
sí ಥ_ಥ
Re si ಥ_ಥ
Ya se, toy chillando
sí ｡:ﾟ(;´∩`;)ﾟ:｡
Personally, I like the fact that they didn't make up after everything. I feel it's more realistic that after so much misfortune and misunderstandings that you can't just "go back". You need to either find a way to shorten the distance that is now in place between them or leave it be. At times I pity JC but at most times I don't like how he puts WWX down, WWX already went through so much and because of his personality he is going to blame himself for a lot of what happened and therefore having JC put more blame on WWX does not sit right with me. But on the other hand, I can see that JC needs someone to blame (even if it's not right) and for feeling betrayed by the one he thought was always going to be there. Yet, there is always a choice, JC could have decided to keep his bond with WWX even if he was going to be scoffed at by the other leaders but his pride got in the way and instead they cut ties with each other. I find these two characters quite interesting because people will have different perspectives of the situation between these two.
I see JC’s personality and hate towards WWX, especially with all the things that happend between them, as an embodiment of a real world emotions coming because of unfavorable circumstances.
Pride, hate, betrayal, guilt, selfishness, jealousy, confusion, sadness. It can be overwhelming when you feel all of this at one go, and don’t expect them to still think rationally.
I honestly don’t see them having picnic under a tree even though all secrets were unfolded and that’s okay. I know I wont do that because some damages are not ment to be fixed 🙈
@@caramelthighs9782 I understand that JC has gone through unfavourable circumstances that made him do the things he did, however, he never apologized to WWX (from what I can recall) he only blamed WWX more, and in the end when he saw his wrongs he decided to not fix it because too much had happened. But under no circumstances is doing what he did to WWX, okay, and therefore I didn't like his character as much as other people did. For example, when WWX came back to life, instead of trying to talk to WWX, he whipped WWX. Their relationship had too much damage and misunderstandings in it, and it was even hinted in the book in one of the extras when the word slave came up that WXX might feel an association to that word as Lan Zhan pulled WWX closer to him when that happened. It is as you said "Some damages are not meant to be fixed"
Actually, according to the novel and the authors notes on weibo, 1. Jc and wwx DID in fact keep in contact, they just put on a show of hostility in order for them to both get what they want (jc getting support and acknowledgement frm other clans + wwx can do whatever he wants without having jc and the whole clan taking the fall). 2. According to the author on weibo, Jc was said to have killed wwx during the war, but in fact, jc went along with the other clans in hopes to save wwx and persuade them into not killing wwx (keep in mind this is right after jyl got killed and everyone thought it was wwx’s fault) But for some reason wwx was still killed and jc was the one who got credited with the kill. 3. Jc is a man with a lot of pride. Although he went and tried to save wwx, he still hates him for wwx basically causing the death of his whole family and leaving his nephew an orphan. 4. At the end of the book, the author also said that they actually made up, and wwx would go and visit JC and JL at lotus pier once in a while. Jc is not homophobic, he was just shocked by the fact that wwx is gay, after knowing him for so long and wwx has always been known to be flirting with girls. :D
It was not just pride, they were rebuilding from almost nothing, the sect needed support and resources, I bet even a loan from the in-laws, they were both thinking about ppl that needed them
@@alexhagane3543 Then why did JC lie unnecessaily? He could have just said WWX defected but no, he told everyone he was an enemy. He could have mentioned that Mianmian and LWJ did try to defend WWX but no, he told HIM that absolutely no one spoke up. He was trying to make things worse for WWX so that he'd have to surrender and those innocent people could be killed as JC wanted them to be.
Just the fact that everything went down just because Wei Wuxian wanted to safe everyone, he never tried to do something evil and ended up being the bad guy. It hurts that Lan Wangji was able to see that and not the man he grew up with as brothers.
Everything went done becuz Wei Wuxian wanted to save everyone? Then tell me, was it not right for Wei Wuxian to save the life of both Jin Zixuan and Lan Wangji as well as all the other sect heirs in the cave? "He never tried to do something evil" uhm are you sure you read MDZS, it is literally CANON that after WWX death JC literally spent 13 damn years torturing random people who may or may not be innocent. Not to mention leading a fucking siege on the Wen Remnants despite knowing how they were all INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
@@seleneaspenriddle-potter6880 I'm sorry I don't get your point??
Is it not right for Lan Wangji to react that way? The man his beloved called a brother betrayed him and declared him an enemy of the cultivational world, leaving him to his fate? The man who built his reputation from the deaths of his beloved and the civilians his beloved was protecting. Tell me, was he being a petty immature brat, or is your precious Chengcheng the one who never grew up, choosing to still be controlled be pride and envy?
@@seleneaspenriddle-potter6880 uuuhhhh I think you might have misunderstood my comment.. I'm totally on Wei Wuxians side, I dislike JC because of his betrayal towards WWX
I very much agree, I've cried so many times because of how pitiful wwx is, he's been in misery from his childhood to his death and even when he's reborn, he's sacrificed and endured so much pain for other people yet everyone still calls him the bad guy, and I'm really annoyed with people who are saying 'I can UnDerStanD Jian Cheng'
It's so clear Jiang Cheng love wei ying but he never understood him
Murdering is love now? Jesus, what would it take for people to see how much JC despise WWX and being happy to kill him? He never, ever, in the whole novel, showed remorse for killing WWX. In the end the only thing he cared about is one up WWX and not living in his shadow (while taking all the power and money from WWX's victories in sunshot campaign, how the fuck did the main power tank of a whole sect end up more broke than the Wen's remnants? because the sect leader's a fucking vampire who took everything in the name of supposedly "family", then disposed WWX and taking the name for killing the YLZ, that's how). Can you imagine LXC or NMJ did the same to LWJ or NHS? Like what the fuck. What kind of love is that, like the spider's love that murder the husband? Well, like mother like son i supposed, in the end a spider's child is truly a spider then.
@@rombongbong i think there's a little misunderstanding but i also agree with the fact that WWX is more broke than the wen remnants. It's a little confusing.
I pray for people you'll love, since you'd probably disembowel, whip, strangle, or downright kill them as "a symbol of your love" as Jiang Cheng did.
I agree. He did love weiying. But after the incident with his parents and sister, all that misunderstanding and confusion, top with some envy, *siiiiiigghhhh*
He wanted weiying with him. To always be there to support him. It's actually pretty sad. :'< affter reading this part of the novel, i cried. *siiiggghhhh*
I cant wait for Mxtx new novel. 😍
@@rombongbong huh? Taking money? Where did you read that? Are you sure? I mean jc tried to protect wwx when wen soldier got to close to him, he and lwj searching wwx when he's gone, he and wwx made a agreement to act like they both are fighting each other and state that wwx is not his sect member but then he still bring shijie to meet wwx, jc keep chenqing save and gave it back to wwx, and more. What can he do when all sect demands of the death of wwx? Besides he didn't know it's not really wwx fault when jzx dead. And shijie too dead when protecting wwx. Plus the fact that wwx broke his promise and left him for the wen (when he too needs him to rebuild his sect). So he feels complicated, he loves wwx as a brother, envy because his father seems to care for wwx more than him, feel betrayed when wwx left him, and hate him for other reason
People greatly misunderstand what Jiang Cheng's idea of twin pride of yunmeng was. It was never on the same level as the Twin Jades of Lan. Word by word in the novel, he said he saw Wei Wuxian as a subordinate. He wanted Wei Wuxian to remain as his subordinate. The twin pride of yunmeng was never supposed to be on equal grounds if Jiang Cheng had his way
Exactly!! I dont get those people who keeps pushing the "twin pride of junmeng" narrative to everyones faces when rly, they'd never work out in the end due to the HUGE differences in stances. wwx chose to live a new life, moving on from the past. he's done with jc.
That's true but I think it's not completely his fault. JFM always says WCZ and CSR are his good friends, but why do people still call WY the son of a servant? YZY was also too prideful to see that JFM DOES love her and not CSR. She was also too prideful to realize the reason JFM acts "favorably" towards WY is because he has no parents left - he doesn't want to replace his friends' position as WY's parents but still wants to give the kid some "parental care", and YZY treats him like trash all the time so SOMEONE has to be "nice" to WY! JFM wanted WY to be to JC what his father (WCZ) was to himself. YZY also stressed it all the time that there are clear distinction between JC and JYL, she stressed they are NOT siblings despite what they call each other (I think that's one reason why he doesn't wear purple). JC cares, he really does, but it was held back by his dysfunctional family's actions. He could've cared more, I believe he could, if only just for 1 time he tells WY his feelings honestly - the fact that he willingly let the Wens away depsite knowing he can die, shows that - alas, that didn't happen. JC was also under a lot of stress and pressure at the time. He barely have any allies and his Sect was barely standing, he's constantly attacked from all sides. It's hard for him to break away from the effects of being brought up in a toxic environment all his life. His actions aren't completely his fault, but that doesn't make him wholy excusable.
As expected of your username, you speak wisely! Fandom loves to push the "good brother JC' agenda so much it has bled over to almost supplant canon and it's such a weird thing when he was clearly written as a foil to a lot of good qualities and values the other characters have.
I think it’s the cultural norm. It’s like their way of acknowledging that wei wouldn’t try to take Jiang Cheng’s position yet would stay by his side.
"He wanted Wei Wuxian to remain as his subordinate."
Naturally. What other relations could exist in a Sect? Two Sect Leaders? No sect, no organization can work that way.
characterizing JC as someone who’s love was conditional, that he only saw Wei wuxian as a subordinate, (not even taking into consideration any translation decisions) and that he truly feels WWX owes him are all surface level conclusions that aren’t really true if you examine his words and actions throughout the series. When JC says that WWX promised to be his subordinate, it’s less about WWX being inferior to him as it was a promise that WWX made to stay by his side, that regardless of the things they went through he could rely on him and they would always have one another. He did not treat WWX as lesser than him, even with his parents treating them differently and contributing to his insecurity that he is not as good as WWX. This insecurity shows up in this scene, where JC seems angry that he owes WWX a debt and is bringing up how the Jiang’s have given a lot to him, in reality he is probably once again feeling inferior in the light of WWX’s great sacrifice for him. He tries to absolve himself of this guilt by telling WWX that they have sacrificed a lot for him too, where WWX takes his words at face value and does feel the blame for something that isn’t really his fault. JC portrays this anger to defend his pride and hide how he truly feels but as soon as they are gone he breaks down, hurt at the ever growing distance between them when they were once so close. His grief is not someone losing their subordinate, it is of someone who feels betrayed and abandoned by someone he saw as a brother. I just can’t believe people watch JC joke around with, worry about, protect, and fight with WWX and think that he only wanted him as a servant. Does this justify the way that he treated WWX? No, but it’s not so black and white between them. the entire series builds up misunderstandings and hurt feelings between them that drive a wall through them, with the death of JYL serving as one catalyst and the core transplant serving as another. The animators show this as literally as possibly with the shot of ever growing distance between them. I just feel that you really miss the point and the nuance of this scene and their relationship if you treat it as “JC thinks he’s better than WWX.”
Thank you.. finally someone i couldn't get the words right to explain these things..
I agree if JC was that selfish and immature ,he wouldn't have distracted Wen clan ppl and that led to getting caught and have his golden core melted. Wen clan ppl were going to catch Wei wuxian and would have done so if JC wouldn't have distracted
I totally agree with you! JC is a very complex character and it’s easy to misunderstand his intentions. He’s arguably one of the most complicated ones of the entire series because there’s so much going on underneath the surface and his words are often contrary to his actions. It’s different from LWJ, he’s a quiet character and let’s actions speak for themselves. But JC sometimes says something that doesn’t really reflect his feelings so he’s easily misunderstood. He comes across as arrogant and selfish but he cared so deeply about his family and his clan. It’s easy to judge a person based on a rude comment and label them as immature and childish. But it’s the actions we should focus on so JC trying to save WWX and having his golden core crushed as a result definitely shows his true intentions. He and WWX are so similar when it comes to miscommunication. So thank you for your great analysis, it’s spot on imo 👏🏼
Ok, but it would've been fine if Jiang Cheng wouldn't have been unreasonable the *entire* time Wei Wuxian was trying to help innocent people. But no, JC just HAD to throw his baby-ass tantrum over his helping Wens that had *nothing* to do with his parents being killed and made it all about himself. WWX was given the ultimatum "do the right thing (something he was always prone to) or let these innocent people die just so your shitty adopted brother doesn't get hurt feelings." One group clearly needed him more. JC sucks.
@@horohorosrin I’m really confused by this comment for a couple of reasons. First, my comment wasn’t about debating whether his actions where justifiable or right (i did say that it didn’t excuse them) but trying to explain some of the nuances of his emotions and actions that seem quite misunderstood in the comment section. Second, you’ll have to remind me when in the series JC had unreasonable tantrums about WWX helping the wens? It seems that you are talking about when WWX decides to help the Wen remnants by taking them to the burial mounds, where JC tells him that he cannot support him. I thought it was fairly clear that he wasn’t actually angry because WWX was helping the Wens, but telling him that he is put in a difficult position by WWX’s actions and it reflects back of the Jiang clan, who is really just starting to recover. Ik this is fiction but the setting is based on historical times and JC is a sect leader, he reasonably has to lead and maintain an image befitting of his status for the time period, which as unfair and wrong as it is, isn’t helping the remains of the people their world now dubs “evil.” WWX knows this which is why he tells him to cut ties with him for the sake of the clan. To my understanding, he also argues against it for WWX’s sake, ie trying to protect him, because he knows that if WWX goes through with it he will both be allied with the Wen’s and become “the enemy” in the eyes of the masses, and lose the protecting of JC and the Jiang clan in the process. I mean, plenty of ppl were clearly trying to find an opportunity to get rid of WWX since they have all been fearful of him during the sunshot campaign, and this would be creating the perfect one that we see is taken advantage of later on in the series, so his concerns weren’t unfounded imo. I didn’t mean for this to get so long but the complexity of it all really interests me! So again, my point is that JC’s words and actions are a little more complex then they appear. If you hate JC and find him unreasonable that’s fine but that and how wrong his words and actions are at times are an entirely different can of worms haha.
JC is very pitiful. I was hoping that there was a scene where he and WWX could finally talk about everything. However, the misunderstanding is already too big. JC, you could have been one of the people closest to WWX because you grew up together. But, your pride came first. :-(
I have always been so sorry to JC, there really was no space for anger for him in my heart while i was reading/watching MDZS. Ever since a kid, i think he's always felt he was inferior to WWX. Especially when his father favors wwx more and madam jiang always pushes him to do more. With the influence of the other cultivators, in the end, he created an unfixable problem between him and wwx. I want a wwx and jc spinoff 😭😭😭
I was becoming to hate JC. But seeing his pitiful sight, I can't bear to hate him that much.
I think their relationship is something like porcelain that already broken.
No matter how great the pottery fixed it, it would never be the same anymore.
@@jiangchengeyerollissamood2530 I have to laugh at people saying that JFM "Favored Wei Wuxian" when it was textually clear that Wei Wuxian got whipped and punished arbitrarily all the time. If JFM truly favored Wei Wuxian, then he would care of the basic safety of the boy and would have stopped the many punishment as a sect leader. This is textbook abuse bystander behavior - You give more praise or meaningless attention to an abused person because you DON'T want to risk yourself and help in a meaningful way.
What use is a few words of praise or a pat on the head when you're whipped? Truly fandom is sometimes very much reflective of how we treat abused children "Oh but the other person was nice to him, surely he was not abused" and that's how we get so many dead children on our hands.
@@Mina-wb1dz then why would jiang fengmian tell jiang cheng that wei ying understands the way of the yunmengjiang instead of just teaching jiang cheng what it takes to lead the yunmengjiang? He only added to jiang cheng's insecurity. Also, no hate on wei ying but he was a rowdy kid (which to me is a how childhood should be) despite being gifted so he got whipped.
the heaviness of this scene makes my heart hurt
The saddest thing still to me, is wei ying never knowing that Jiang cheng lost his core for him too. That's some closure i bet we all wish we got.. and i hope they got as they lived on.
How??
@@Pere........ At 6:00, jiang cheng saw the wens coming towards wei ying that he might be soon caught while buying foods so he used himself as a bait but got caught instead and lose his golden core for jiang cheng.
That's truly that saddest thing. Wei Ying will never know that Jiang Cheng lost the core because he tried to protect Wei Ying. And at that time Jiang Cheng wasn't in his best spirits or there were other more safe ways to distract the wens.
even in the novel wei ying never know about that. he only know that wen vcaptured jiang while he s away. n jiang also didnt explain that to wei ying, its very sad
Yeah. That's why I can never fully hate Jiang Cheng. I don't like him but...that act touched me. He could have spit that back as a retort but he didn't and kept the secret to himself. he hasn't reached 100% level of spitefulness. I still do not think he saw Wei Wuxian as his equal (he expected him to be his subordinate), but I have no doubt he really treated him as a family
The portrayal of JC’s character really struck out to me this episode - it once again reminds us how complex his character is. JC’s inferiority towards WY and his overwhelming pride that destroyed many aspects of his life - came hand in hand with the way he was brought up. The same time he experienced immense pressure from everyone around him as the one expected to lead his clan in the future, the one he sought validation from the most - as someone who was supposed to guide and protect him - his father - had treated him strictly and blatantly showed bias towards WY.
WY and JYL were, in a way, his escape and his balance in life. JC had loved the two dearly and they had treated him without any expectations, only love and trust. Although WY was also an object of his insecurity, JC knew full well that he treasured the two more than any other insecurities he had. If only JYL hadn’t died. It was the last straw and had broken both JC and WY, leaving them with nothing but hatred and ripping out all the darkness in their hearts. Misunderstandings were sown, WY had perished and JC was left with nothing but hatred and no one left to seek answers from.
After both JYL and WY had left, JC had no one left to confide in - he had to put on a prideful and impenetrable image for others to see - perhaps as a way to protect himself from all the pain he experienced in his past. The way JC burst out in anger then in grief after WY left in this clip really hit me hard because under all the anger hid a fragility that JC did not know how to communicate to others - too many tragedies had occurred and there was no way back; even if somewhere deep down JC still treasured WY the same he had before. It was just that it became impossible for JC to let go of the hatred of the past that still eats at him.
I really, REALLY appreciate such a strong character. He isn’t without flaws and he has made so many hurtful decisions. I’m not justifying his actions but he is an example of someone who once lived in happiness despite the hardships - before everything came raining down on him. Give my boy rights to happiness😭
Just to clear up what JC said regarding WWX as his ‘subordinate’, the English translations did their best but I hope no one antagonises JC for saying that because in Chinese it’s more like JC and WWX said that to show their support for each other and their future: reaffirming the fact that WWX never desired JC’s position as the heir and that when JC becomes the new head for lotus pier, WWX will remain in lotus pier to support him. Families in China indirectly show their affection this way, whether it is through actions or their words!
Damn, if you’re still reading you’re a cool person😉 I’m seriously over-analysing but it’s MDZS✨ - if you haven’t read the novel yet I recommend you do that! The animation handled many of the delicate situations in MDZS brilliantly… but for extra details PLUS SPICE🌶 (censored from the donghua🥲) why not?
I love this! I COMPLETELY agree with your analysis! I think ppl are quick to judge him on certain things he did and said but overall I see a sad boy: one with flaws and insecurities but also someone without the guidance of how to grow up and deal with all the tragedies that hit him. I get emotional thinking about JYL and WY bc it’s so obvious the love they had for him but how that was so quickly taken as well 🥺😔
Ya know, I agree and I also slightly disagree. You can love someone and love them incorrectly. Never once do you hear JC love WY like a brother. All you hear word for word in the novel is subordinate. Sometimes when we love something or someone, we love them for the wrong reasons and it becomes a toxic form of love which is destructive in nature. That kind of love hurts all parties invested.
To a certain degree, JC wanted to become a parallel version of Lan Xichen and Lan Zhan, but you cannot get that via subjugation. The Lan brothers have a genuine love for each other and see each other as equals with no sense of competition or oneupsmanship between them. In the case of JC and WY, comparisons were always being made and instead of bonding they were being made to compete (at least in the eyes of JC because WY doesn't really care about such things give my boy some wine and he is str8 XD)
I think he does deserve happiness as he does have some progression in the novel, especially after core-gate. Angry Purple Brother finally ate a Snickers.
this is such a good analysis! i’m kinda new to mdzs but this rlly puts WY and JC’s relationship into perspective for me. also where can i read the novel? ive been trying to find out where but i still have no idea haha
Ur correct but I just want to add that the bro never really consider him as a sibling in the end. He, bro himself, stated mc as subordinate and him, bro, as the leader. His surround and indirectly, he him self, refers to mc as a son of a servant after many years have passed. Just really inhuman and very human at the same time. I just hate everyone in the Jiang clan.
Toxic as hell. Just glad wwx got to leave and be w lwj. 😄 ❤
As for the sister...she's like a water, don't really find her important but without her the story will be gone. 🤷♀️
@@Isabel-nq6ic gotta buy it now! it's officially published in english! ❤
I LOVE this character. So complex and so we’ll written. I think the brothers/friends to enemies is my favorite troupe lol. But I’ve never seen it so well written.
我真的好心疼江澄，最愛他了❤️😢
To put it simply. What Wei Ning was saying is, "Now do you understand. Wei Ying never tried to harm or hurt you. Yes, he saved me and my family. Yes, he saved Lan Wangi. Truth is you and your family have always been in his heart."
It's so interesting how the donghua added this scene of Lan Wangji undoing Jiang Cheng's guan/headpiece! The Guan is something that denotes status symbol in the gentry, with different iterations symbolizing different positions or tiers. For Lan Wangji to just so effortlessly knock it off his head feels like a suitable chastisement of how Jiang Cheng had not lived up to all his supposed 'honor'. One of the things that has always grated at me, even though it's very realistic, is how most of the men in power in MDZS ended up never getting the consequences of their actions and crimes.
Jiang Cheng pitted his ex-shixiong against the cultivation world and ignored his debt to the Wen siblings, went on to slaughter the Wens despite knowing them to be innocents, and went on to murder countless people in the name of hunting down demonic cultivators and in the novel and cql ended up with nary a reprimand - And still fans are clamoring that he "deserves better" somehow. Well I'd say he got the flick of the wrist he deserves in this scene! Good job for delivering it, Hanguang-Jun and the donghua makers!
Definitely shows how people who aren't inheritedly bad, spiral down paths that just continue to spiral, soon finding themselves in an abyss of mess they csnt crawl out of. I love his character but what a impulsive emotional wreck of a character he is. The part you mentioned of having his guan being slashed was so symbolic and genius. Oh the tragedy of this wonderful show with characters we love to hate and hate to love lol.
I did not know that! But it IS fitting for Lan Zhan to do cut off the guan.
4:42....finally I get to know exactly what happened here. I've been dying to know the relevance of this scene. Having watch a couple of review also just to see if they have mention this.
Its also such a beautiful moment when Lan Zhan sends the red glowing dragon flies down on him. Red is Wei Wuxian's colour. Dragonflies in Bhuddist ideology symbolise the purity of being and living life to ones truest potential by living not in the past but in the moment.
It almost his way of saying just as Wen Ning did, that Wei Ying will always surpass and outshine him. He is pure of heart and does not wish to linger on what has been but work towards making the present and the future more beautiful.
Whereas Jaing Cheng is stuck in a past that no one to change and is contriving blame upon Wei Ying so he does not have to face the truth that most of what happened was brought back to his feet. He was the one who ignored Wei Ying's pleas and returned to Lotus Cove, he was the one who lost his core, and after Wei Ying sacraficed his own so that Jaing Cheng his sister, his position and his clan could be protected, it was because of that that Wei Ying had to turn to demonic cultivation. He would have never had to do any of that if Jaing Cheng just listened to him.
But also not one thing that happened was truly Wei Yings fault. The Jaing parents did not die because of Wei Ying. They died because of the Wen clan highers. Yanli did not die because of Wei Ying but because of the second flute. Wei Ying was absolutely correct to save the innocents of the Wen clan and though his methods were always unruly, he never did anything selfishly.
He was pushed and pushed until he broke and then when he thought he had gone too far he killed himself.
If anything the only one at fault for what happened to and around Wei Ying was Jaing Cheng. One because he lost his core and two because he stood against him.
I understand he felt betrayed that Wei Ying didnt keep his promise, but to be honest no matter what Wei Ying did, Jaing Cheng would find some fault in it. He was too stuck on being the named hero and not on truly doing the right thing. He was perhaps a little broken by his parents, traumatised by the deaths of his family and so I cant bring myself to hate him at all. But there is no excuse for the way he treated Wei Ying here. Even if he didnt know about the second flute, he did not kill Yanli, Yanli should have neve been there unprotected.
I feel Jaing Cheng's pain, I do. But his pain is not the fault of Wei Ying. Much of Wei Ying's pain is however due to Jaing Cheng.
For me it's JC mom that is the reason for all of this as she was the one that instilled in them that wei ying had to repay their kindness. This led to them thinking that love has a cost. Wei ying wants to give his love without any strings attached while JC doesn't know how to accept his love without those strings. It hurt when he said if he should bow down and kneel to thank him when we know that's not what wei ying wants.
Honestly I agree but I feel like both parents were wrong JC mom for taking her anger out on children who at the time had done nothing wrong and JC dad for never trying to do anything to help stop her. The most he'd done is tell her to stop or to calm down. If he had explained or talked with his wife their relationship could have been better. We saw the he did care for his wife and kids so why didn't he explain. Honestly JCs dad reminds me too much of Qi-ge (From Svsss also I forgot how to spell his name so I just put qi-ge)
To me JC feels like a child that doesn't understand how he should feel or how he should react he basically did what his mom did take his anger out on others more specifically WWX. He just did what he had seen all his life. WWX and JCs relationship was always strained the only thing that keep them together was their sister. Who was the only one in the family who understood the family. That probably hurt her too she was the one basically raising WWX and JC even tho she was only a child at the time too.
@Salty Dinosaur you have lots of point there
Both JFM and MY/YZY are awful (although I cried so much during their death). They couldn't resolve their own issues so the kids got involve. JFM knows the rumor going around that he favors WWX because he is the son of his supposedly former love interest(WWX's mother) but does nothing to clear the misunderstanding (he should've at least explained to his wife ffs). This is not only a humiliation to MY/YZY but also another blow to their already strained marriage thus leading to MY/YZY lashing out at WWX (even blaming him for the attack of Wen clan at Lotus pier which she knows full well that Wen Ruohan would find a way to attack even if WWX did not stand up for others in the cave) and using JC to confront his husband and constantly comparing them (I don't really know much about their treatment towards JYL tho).
That was a long rant (I have a love and hate relationship towards JFM and MY/YZY) but overall it's kinda their fault but not entirely that JC is kinda fucked up.
I know I am not the only one who was😭on this scene Wen Ning telling Jiang Cheng he was not supposed to surpass Wei Ying now tell me how a complete stranger knows that verses your brother. Love you Wei Ying and Lan Zhan 😍
I get the impression after watching this scene again that Jiang Cheng only cared for Wei Ying as long as he did everything he was supposed to for the Jiang family. It was love, but a conditional one. I don't think they could make up post canon because of this because Wei Ying fundamentally can't fulfill the conditions. There's also a note by the author that Jiang Cheng's blacklisted by female cultivators because his standards are insanely high but he doesn't think he needs to provide anything in a relationship. I think this fundamentally speaks to his character.
Omg this is what I've been trying to elucidate to my mxtx discord friend for weeks now, thank you! Like I get that Jiang Cheng loves Wei Wuxian, but it's the kind of love that's very asshole Asian conservative parent, where you only deserves to be loved when you follow a very specific brand of guidelines that THEY set up for you. That's why I'm becoming increasingly leery of the fandom euphoria for Yunmeng bros reconciliation because honestly that would just mean Wei Wuxian having to adjust and appease Jiang Cheng's ego while Jiang Cheng himself does nothing and would never try to see any other perspectives other than his.
@@isha8318 I've seen one fanfiction where they work the balance of JC growing up enough to acknowledge that his brother gets to be his own person but also is still his dumb self.
This was exactly how I interpreted it when I first read MDZS. That Jiang Cheng's love was conditional. He couldn't bring himself to support a Wei Ying who was walking an unorthodox path. Unlike his sister who could always find it in her heart to love Wei Ying no matter what. And that's something even wwx understood very well.
Not really... he was willing to sacrifice himself to wwx. He is imperfect and even immature emotionally, but he deeply cared for wwx. Just like wwx, he decided to try and save wwx without letting him know. He went to distract the Wens... but instead of him telling wwx this, wwx thought he was abandoned by jc. He waa told by JFM to take care of jc... and basically put jc ahead of himself. He did just that, not knowing that jc at times also did this. Because they weren't raised as equals. Because they weren't taught to communicate as equals. And mostly, jc is never honest about his feelings.
This is the whole reason JL ends up telling his own uncle off at the very end for being a giant tsundere
I've always hated how JC says that WWX is the one that betrayed the clan. He gave JC his golden core to keep the jiang clan alive. JC knew that the Wen remnants were innocents but refused to do anything about it. WWX leaving was for the sake of the clan to not be dragged down with him AND JC is the only who declared WWX an enemy, so honey, who BETRAYED who.
EXACTLY. I love how Lanzhan blew the thing off Jiang Cheng’s head as if saying you don’t deserve the title you have and didn’t live up to it either, to shut him up.
Thank you! Like yes, JC didn't know whose golden core he was using. But he did know that he wouldn't have a golden core without WW since it was his name he used. JYL especially wouldn't have survived as long without WN and WQ sticking their necks out to help.
Yet JC still demands more of WW after refusing to help WW repay their debt to the Wens. Then when WW leaves to protect the clan, JC labels him an enemy and leads two sieges against him! If that isn't the biggest betrayal, I don't know what is.
@@MistressFearless Thank you. COMMEN SENSE
i think one of the reasons why JC refused to help the Wens was because of how fragile his position as a new sect leader was. true, he was raised to be one, but he didn't gain the title under circumstances anyone would expect. he was forced to raise Lotus Pier on his own, and the entire cultivation world has high expectations of him that's why he can't afford to mess up. he's treading on very thin ice, and because of that, he became hyperfixated on restoring the Jiang sect to its former glory, regardless of the collateral damage it would cause to the world and the people around him. which is probably why he ignored the Wens' cry for help, and even went as far as disowning WWX.
ps. if it's unclear, i'm not defending him. i know very well that JC played a part in the overall tragedy of MDZS because of his lopsided goals and his obvious inferiority complex. but i don't exactly hate him either. i just appreciate how well-written he is as a character.
You have ti understand his side. JC also sacrificed himself for WWX. He truly loved him as well. If he didnt he would’ve let him be caught by the Wens. He knew he could’ve died or been tortured there endlessly, but he still made that choice.
They both love each other. Its understandable JC hates ALL the Wens because they killed and tortured his people and hurt him. He has all the right to feel that way. No, he should not have taken it out on the remnants, but when a group of people, majority, deeply hurt you, it makes sense.
I hate seeing JC slander. He had a whole sect to rebuild and a sister that he was responsible for. He couldn’t defend them even if he wanted to. He had to sacrifice a lot. His relationship with WWX was burdened with the circumstances, jealousy, and lack of communication.
They both gave up a lot for eachother.
Dios mío que Escena más desgarradora también yo me puse a llorar😭😭
Es tan triste y a la vez tan hermoso ,wei wuxian es todo aquello que todos queremos ser,bueno ,leal , maravilloso 💖💖💖💖💖
Even though I understand the bitterness of JC after losing his parents and rebuilding Lotus Pier on his own...I can't ever justify his hostility towards WWX as anything other than blinded jealousy and plain resentment_ Most importantly, JC always referred to WWX as his "SUBORDINATE" instead of "BROTHER" whenever this 'promise stuff' came up.
And let's be honest here, even WWX lost his parents way before JC did.
WWX denied comfort/safety for a bunch of weak and discarded people// He made the Burial Mounds a living space!!!_HELL, he died thinking everyone hated him and that JY(the only person who he thought loved him) died bcoz of him. Did all this make WWX excuse himself from his responsibility as the one who killed many? No! He accepted his fault!
HE DID NOT LET BITTERNESS AND HATRED turn him into a projector of negativity and abuser!
This pure honesty is what makes the protagonist of Mdzs unique from any other protagonist I've ever known. He's very honest about his strengths and weaknesses.
Besides,after I got to know about how JC protected WWX, I thought maybe they could get some closure.
However, let's be honest here, practically it would have been really hard and time consuming to have a calm conversation after all that shit. And we all know...patience is not their greatest ability_I am speaking for both WWX and JC_one is hot headed like an active volcano and another fidgety like a new rubberband.
Anyways, personally,I'm satisfied that WWX and LWJ got their much deserved happy ending with each other.
Ik where you come from but calling him subordinate is actually technically correct since he would have been that, he would have probably been his right hand man which is in fact that since JC would have been a sect leader thus his superior, it didn’t matter if they were friends/brothers (like separating personal life/titles from the work ones (to make it more professional maybe, idk))
@@moonshinee3260 That's my point here_someone as free-spirited and brilliant as WWX was never meant to be anyone's subordinate.
JC couldn't just accept that even if he should have understood this about WWX.
@@alishawinters924 I mean, yes he should have understood him a bit more, but why would WWX promise him to be his right hand man I he just wanted to leave? Why give him hope? tbh I do think WY wanted to stay but due to latter events they just couldn’t be the same anymore
@@moonshinee3260 definitely,WWX wanted to stay...but life is unpredictable. A fact we all know.
Yep this is so well written
I cried reading the novel, i cried watching the drama adaptation, the anime adaptation also never failed to make me cryyyy 😭 but for me the novel still the one who made me cried so hard because if you read it in chinese there are so many beautiful and deep words in chinese that cannot be translated in english.
I wish I could remember the name of this show.
@@vickeyheisler2369 its mo dao zu shi or in eng "grandmaster of demonic cultivation"
@@yasu_zennyoji thank you. I hope it's on Amazon prime.
It’s sad that his self confidence forever ruined whatever relationship there was between the two brothers. He let the doubt he had for himself ruin the love he had for his brother and the sad thing his his brother let him because he believed that he deserved that hate after being a cause for the death of their sister.
As an animation student, I must really commend how beautiful the animators did this scene. The action shots, suave movements, and metaphor for how Jiang Cheng feels when he learns the true are super impactful story telling. My favorite part is towards the end where Lan Wangji blows of his hair accessory as if it was a metaphor to not only shut up, but that all his hard work and image of being a clan leader was shattered with the knowledge that his golden core wasn't his. And, that in a way the truth was setting him free from all this built up resentment and hatred. It's easy for him to hate Wei Wuxian. It was the only way he knew how to explain or cope with everything that happened, so to be told that all his hatred, mourning, and resentment should've been a lie in a way all these years hurts. It's like he wasted his whole life becoming something that shouldn't have been in a way. I feel like their friendship would never be able to bounce back after all that has happened and it's realistic to real life. Not everyone makes up. God I love the storywriting and the feels!!
Also that moment when he goes to his knees and as soon as the flute (literally the instrument Wei Wuxian plays) plays his tears start streaming down. Beautiful timing!! Poetic Cinema!! I'm here for it.
How beautiful Lan Zhan how he defended his sweetheart
這幕真的好傷！其實他也是默默做了很多事的好兄弟啊
確實，從什麼都有 到什麼都沒有😭 很能體會江澄說"護著外人"那段😢 又愛又恨又無可奈何
Se me salió una lagrimita, esto me rompe el corazón, me duele mucho. Realmente es una escena que es difícil de ver, leer, escuchar...
PD: Gracias por los subtítulos al español, me sirven mucho (soy de México, así que se me facilita)
hola, no podriamos ser amigos? mi nombre es gabih
小說看第二遍後，好心疼江澄，雖然我最愛還是魏嬰，不過他的恣意任性確實傷害到了身邊的人
It's so weird to me how many people are excusing and justifying Jiang Cheng's behavior when if you meet him in real life, you'd probably hate him or be scared of him. Like, sure he looks handsome and dashing and all, but are people labelling him as "just a tsundere character so misunderstood uwu!" blind or just really inexperienced in life?
Jiang Cheng is a person in power who had a history of strangling a family member in a fit of rage and knowingly leading an assault towards a group of innocents, knowing that thee are women, elderly and children amongst them. This is a man in power who ignored pleas and cases until people have straight-up died, all the while accepting taxes from said people to protect them. This is a man who spent years torturing and killing people indiscriminately at the slightest inkling that they practice unorthodox cultivation (and just THINK how many people do not have money to go to Sects to study and just does unorthodox cultivation?). In real life, this man would be an abusive, ineffective political figure who uses his power to push down on YOU. THIS is the man you idolize? THIS is the kind of behavior you excuse? Are you a fan of totlitarian and ineffective political pundits in real life as well?
Lmao this, all these girls simping for JC when irl JC would literally spit on them for being a female commoner :'D Like I understand liking antagonist characters, there's a lot of fandoms who do that, but the MDZS/Untamed fandom is one of the first where the simping is followed by a HUGE amount of whitewashing and abuse apologia. You don't see people who like Darth Vader or Hannibal or Voldermort be like "Yep he never did anything wrong it's all the protagonist's fault", and JC's not even that cool as an antagonist to begin with, he's just this insecure, homophobic manchild who throws tantrums by torturing people weaker than him but didn't even raise a peep towards ACTUAL demonic cultivator Xue Yang because he probably owes money to the Jins lmao.
Well that's because believe it or not, Jiang Cheng's character is quite relatable in more ways than one. Besides, if he were a person in real life, we won't actually know what goes in his head or what made him the person he became unless we know him really well or are someone important from his past. So naturally, we won't like him, hate him even, if he was being a shit to us. I'm not actually excusing his behaviour, but can you really blame him for being so insecure when all his life Jiang Fengmian was biased towards him? (Well at least that's how Cheng saw it. I know his father was just being strict because Cheng needed to be tough and know what's right in order to lead the sect properly) He literally had no one to confide in after all this shit started, no one to actually open his heart up to and release all those negative emotions eating him up. Plus he's a really prideful person so it's even harder for him to let it out. Not everyone's as brave / big-hearted as Wei Ying or as patient as Lan Zhan.
(And I do know that Wei Ying went through a lot, like really a lot. So I'm not comparing them or anything.) Also, if Jiang Cheng would've been the one to stand by Wei Ying, then chances of Jiang Cheng leveling up to Lan Zhan would've been high. Which is not right since we don't want a triangle in there (or at least, I don't.)
Damn, MDZS's characters are really complex. I'm glad I found out it existed even though I've cried rivers.
Eh, for me personally, I don’t really simp over JC (cuz let’s be honest, WWX and LWJ are much cuter and hot lmao) JC is actually my fav because of how complex he is. He’s the only character that never fails to make me cry no matter how many times I reread the Chinese novel, the manhua, watch the TV series, the animated version, or listen to the 广播剧. As selfless as WWX is for fighting against the world by himself, I do also think he’s selfish for ignoring his responsibilities of being a clan member. I don’t think it’s fair for WWX to put his clan’s safety at risk because he wants to save another group of people, irl I would find it hard to be WWX’s friend/family member. JC, however, I thought was actually an effective politician and a brave character who rebuilt his clan and maintained his fragile relationship with a dangerous WWX (to us, WWX practicing demonic cultivation wasn’t an issue cuz we knew WWX was good at heart, but to those who didn’t know WWX on a personal level, he was a huge threat). I dont know just my thoughts plz don’t come for me I still love WWX I just had to defend JC a bit there
@@amychen650 I gotta ask, what canon are you going on from? In every adaptation, it's clear that the Wens would have attacked Lotus Pier unprovoked all along, seeing how they've subdued Gusu Lan and Qinghe Nie without provocation - Maybe try being family members with Madam Yu then, because she was actually the one who actually provoked Wang Lingjiao and put her clan in danger? And goodness, did you just skip through the part where Wei Wuxian deliberately seceded from the Yunmeng Jiang sect as not to implicate them in saving the Wens? And lmao at "maintaining his fragile relationship with a dangerous WWX" when JC canonically declared publicly that WWX is an enemy of the cultivation world WHILE knowing that his "dangerous" shixiong was merely farming with a bunch of old people and a kid? Like did we read and watch two different shows/books or did someone gave you fanfic disguised as the novel? :'D
@@isha8318 mmm I see what you mean but I think we’re actually arguing on very different bases, I don’t want to start an argument I just wanted to throw my ideas out there. WWX is someone that is very heroic in the sense that he has strong personal morals that he holds on tight to, we can see that with him helping the Wen clan. WWX lives up exactly to one of his famous quotes: “是非在己、毁誉由人、得失不论” (which roughly translates to “right vs wrong is decided by oneself, reputation is decided by others, gains and losses do not matter”). This is actually the first half of a 对联 that MXTX adapts from 岳麓书院, the second half of the 对联 says: “为天地立心，为生民立命，为往圣继绝学，为万世开太平” (which roughly translates to “invoking heart and life in society (I’m assuming means modeling purpose and kindness in society), continuing and pursuing a bright future, and promoting peace in the world”). I think these two quotes actually encompass a lot of the two main arguments readers have, the focus on morals within oneself versus respecting society’s values. Now you might say the values in the society that WWX lived in were horrible and that’s why we had all the conflict, but similarly, WWX’s morals can’t all be upheld either. WWX acts on morals of 无愧于心 (which poorly translates to “worthy of his heart”) but how can he promise not to harm others when he chooses to protect someone else? It’s never a win win situation, WWX choosing demonic cultivation caused people’s lives did it not? Yes it’s self defense, it’s war, the clans chose to provoke him first, but weren’t many innocent lives lost under his hands (let’s not forget 血洗不夜天)? WWX promised JC loyalty and support, did he do that? WWX wanted to protect his shijie, did he succeed? He wanted to protect Wenning and Wenqing, was he successful? Maybe you’ll say “none of this was WWX’s fault, it’s the others fault for their corruption”, but is it fair to say that WWX wasn’t responsible for a single life? Again, don’t want to start a fight over this but I’ll admit I’m slightly offended by the fact that you question if I even read the book because we disagree 😭sorry if I sound too harsh but I think we can agree to disagree about JC, or at least agree that this argument is the beauty of MXTX’s books, no one is ever completely innocent or guilty (except Wanglingjiao and Wenchao fuck them)
i love the final part where his anger has faded away and left him just grieving. for the first time he lets go of his hatred and looks back on both of their actions and realizes that while they both turned away from each other at the same time, my memory of the novel is hazy but where he was mentally at the time meant he could not see the Wens as anything but monsters and murderers and couldnt understand that some were innocent so WWX, in his mind, betrayed JC by standing up for and being nice to the Wens, this is when WWX turns his back on JC. but JC finally realizes that he also turned his back on WWX, by not listening to him about the Wens. however the animation shows how JC realising how he betrayed WWX more than WWX betrayed JC as WWX turned his back but stayed still, implying his betrayal to be minor easily forgiven maybe even understandable, whereas JC ran headlong away from WWX without looking back, implying JC has realized his betrayal was much worse and he is truly to blame for losing his brother and the one person he could rely on. this is huge especially for someone as proud as JC is.
Wei Ying, Wei Ying...
Jiang Cheng didn't understand how much Wei Ying had to go through.
Demonic path and cultivation he never really wanted to show off let alone go through it. But it was the only way to get strong lest he be conquered by the darkness and let everyone dear to him dies.
It was the fault of many others who instigated him be the monster he was.
Wei Ying having offered his golden core aswell... I knew liking Wei Ying from the start was a good choice. Due to his principles and using dark and evil to perform good deeds.
Esto realmente duele. Su relación está tan fracturada que ya ni siquiera puede considerarse así
I really like this scene. It shows that both of them sacrificed for each other😭
Dammit if wei wuxian was an actual person I'd have hugged him so friggin tight seriously I'm tearing up
我终于知道自己心痛什么，因为红白就像我想要成为的人，而现实其实小紫才是我自己。
魏無羨從來沒有穿雲夢江氏家服啊，連藍湛都穿藍氏家服，江氏家服是紫色，魏無羨就是黑黑紅紅髮帶也是紅色。小師弟都沒有意見，魏無羨是大師兄就是黑與紅。魏無羨常帶小師弟們一起翹課，喝酒，偷雞，拐藻，那些師弟都穿紫色家服，魏無羨從小黑黑紅紅，髮帶也是紅，還沒有其他弟子說話。江楓眠說一句話，跟他一起翹課，你們的天資修為跟他一樣嗎？魏無羨就是修真界的莫札特。假如魏無羨像薛洋那樣的惡人，他會是修真界非常巨大的一場浩劫。不夜天他狠一點，圍剿他那些修士及家主，恐怕全部都不在了
I'm honestly baffled at the number of people in the comments just...straight up normalizing Jiang Cheng's abusive and physically harmful behavior as "human" and "understandable because of his background". Because that's what it is, your way of viewing fiction more or less reflects your irl views - People are just taking a very aggressively reactive and abusive character and say "well that's a normal reaction" while it should NOT be. My work in maternal health sometimes brings me face to face with the edges of domestic abuse, and the sentiments all over this comment section is just reminding me of when people try to excuse domestic abusers. We as a society TRY SO HARD to "understand" and ask 'why" towards abusers, while victims and potential victims are rarely given the same justification or understanding. Why does it ALWAYS have to fall to victims to understand, to try and accommodate abusers as not to be abused meanwhile we spin so many stories of abusers having a rough childhood, abusers facing loss, and how "oh he was just reactive" or "oh he was just having a bad day".
Tbvh every time I encounter cases of domestic violence, these mothers are always so quiet, always expecting me to take the husband's side, always expecting me to ask "What did YOU do that your husband hit you?" the way people here are so quick to defend JC and vilify and point out every wrong thing about Wen Ning, Wei Wuxian, the Wens, and even JC's victims he tortured along 13 years - and having this kind of sentiment appear all over something I go to entertain myself just makes me sad.
Yeah, it's actually disturbing to me how many people have this mindset
As much as I pity Jiang Cheng (in all versions, yes, canon, donghua, live) he's still a man blinded by his rage. He got nothing for Wei WuXian but hatred, spite, and anger. Some will say their relationship started falling apart when Jiang YanLi died, but is that true? Jiang YanLi's death is just the final blow to their already crumbled connection.
Notice how he treated Wei WuXian in his first life, always referring to him as his "subordinate" - to his eyes, Wei WuXian is a charity case meant to repay his family for all his life. His mother greatly influenced this line of thought, but really, has he thought of Wei WuXian as a brother to him? They may have an agreeable relationship at some point, but to me, he never treated Wei WuXian as a real brother. He has always seen him as a competition, be it for his father's attention or recognition from outsiders.
When Lotus Pier fell and burned, what did he do? He pushed all the blame to Wei WuXian as if it was really his fault that the Wens attacked their sect. It was always convenient for him to pin the blame on Wei WuXian. It was clear that Wei WuXian was always used as a scapegoat since he is the best option. Oh, the Wens attacked? Blame Wei WuXian for it. My parents died? Blame Wei WuXian for it. Jin ZiXuan was killed? Blame Wei WuXian for it. It's always BLAME WEI WUXIAN.
The day Lotus Pier fell, it was not only Jiang Cheng who lost. Wei WuXian lost, too. His home, his shimeis and shidis, his adoptive family. But sure, let Jiang Cheng pin the blame on Wei WuXian because of his "heroics". As if his "heroic" act did not save their ass from the XuanWu of Slaughter. But of course, that' still Wei WuXian's fault.
What most fail to understand is that the Wens, whether Wei WuXian made that intervention in the XuanWu cave or not would still come after the Jiangs. They just needed an excuse to send their troops to Yunmeng. And Yu Ziyuan was more than willing to cut Wei WuXian's arm!!!!
It was always Wei WuXian who made an effort to bridge the gap between them. What was the reason Wei WuXian acted as "arrogant" or "insolent" in the first place? For Jiang Cheng not to take the blame. He has turned himself into an active target to protect his so-called "siblings".
And don't get me started with Jiang Cheng's killing spree of demonic cultivators for 13 years. He whipped Mo XuanYu with ZIDIAN!! If Wei WuXian really possessed that body, what do you think would have happened? His soul would forever perish.
IDK I have a lot to say. But anyway, the point is, Jiang Cheng is not the only victim here. And Wei WuXian is not the culprit for Jiang Cheng's misery. Them, not mending their relationship, in the end, is better. It was far too late for them. Wei WuXian will be far happier in his life if he is not constantly reminded of his "low birth" and his life "debts". He has already repaid it all.
I disagree. He was one of the major voices contending against his own mother. Only through the arguments getting worse and his dad seemingly being even further biased made him question. But even when he thought he was unloved, he still hid it deep for quite some time until it all came exploding down when his entire family was massacred and humiliated.
@@flyatnight-1812 You're not really making sense? What does him feeling unloved have to do with him 'exploding" and blaming (plus choking) an already wounded Wei Wuxian after Lotus Pier's fall? Before the Wen's attack, most of Jiang Cheng's dialogue in canon are either him reprimanding Wei Wuxian for shaming the sect and being silent during family scenes. I hope you're not saying that because he felt unloved and had oh so bravely hid it from the world that he is in the right for blaming and hurting Wei Wuxian after his family was massacred.
Also it's always weird to me how fandom falls so easily into the "omg Jiang Cheng is unloved and WWX is favored by JFM" shitty fanfic trope. If you really read canon or watch it, you'll catch hints that Wei Wuxian was given a lot of corporal punishments, some of them of him taking the blame for others. If he was REALLY favored by the Sect leader, then would that have happened? Do you really think some flyaway words of praise is better than being whipped? And in canon there was ONE instance when JFM reprimanded JC, and that was because JC said that WWX should have left LWJ and JZX (ahem his a-jie's FIANCEE AND CLAN ALLY) to die, the rest are just normal father-son interaction, and when JFM tried to praise JC madam Yu was the one who cut him off.
@@limochou3410 JC was aware of their family dynamic and his father's supposed bias, but he never turned it into jealousy and genuinely liked WWX and kept on protecting him by reprimanding WWX of his rule breaking behavior, telling him to be careful later on because JC was worried for him. Even the scene where WWX first experiments with resentful energy he keeps on reminding his brother to stay on the good path but was very serious that one time because he really worried for his brother. But slowly and slowly, WWX's rebelliousness went from playing pranks, to experimenting with resentful energy and then defying the wei empire which's consequences were no longer of the level of the pranks they played a couple years ago.
Even after all these warnings, they were just kind reminders from a genuinely loving brother and he never took it to heart, getting angry. Infact he somewhat supported his brother's rebellious nature, helping him rebel, also voicing his distain to the wei nation as well as to the harshness of their mother, but Imagine after all that, his rebellious nature to which to which he didn't mind but also wanted WWX to stop, ultimately ended up in everyone he knew being slaughtered, in front of his very eyes. His perfect home and childhood, burned, desecrated humiliated all in front of him. Even then JC's internal turmoil was that he still loved his brother, but how can he love someone that lead to the people he loved most, his friends, his city's people, thousands of families, men women and children who supported his family crest, slaughtered.
If you best friend went out of line rebelled too hard or insulted the wrong people and it ended up getting your entire bloodline annihilated then you would question if he is really your best friend if he did not think of the potential consequences of his actions.
JC is a tragedy. Even after, when WWX tried to save the few remaining Weis, sure JC could of done something, in fact he did, he spoke out to the council that these people have once saved his life but no one listened to him and in fact threatened JC own reputation, laughing at him how he could defend a clan that murdered his parents. The fact that JC spoke out to attempt to protect some Weis, who were responsible for everything he cared for being lost is already being too kind. After this he remained neutral and didn't go to punish the Wei's deliberately, but didn't protect them either. But what hurt him the most was WWX being to adamant to protecting these Weis. For another time, WWX defy's JC's advices, the question comes in, Does WWX really care about JC? He constantly ignores his advice, plays with him, hangs out less with him, had the gut to protect the people who murdered JC's blood parents. It feels for JC that WWX doesn't care as much about his (JC 's) parents who had in fact loved WWX more than JC, and he doesn't feel the pain of their loss as deeply as JC, maybe because he never was a part of the family in the first place.Maybe WWX feels less guilt because they weren't his blood parents but they were JC's blood parents.
I could keep going but lets just end it with this. WWX was an outsider from the very beginning but by the end of the first season, who was WWX's best friend? JC. The person who has every reason to hate WWX, taking his father's love, being more talented than he is, constantly making rebellious decisions that get himself and potentially others in trouble, yet JC and WWX could not have been closer, even up until their entrapment in the cave where JC painstakingly ran all the way back home for reinforcements to save WWX (he couldve just let them die) only for WWX to be congratulated, praised more in front of him, making him feel even more sadder than he isn't as talented as his younger brother, yet JC still loved WWX all the way up to his mother whipping WWX until, when it lead to Jc losing everything he could have ever loved. And all those later contradictions between JC and WWX added up, further distancing JC's trust towards WWX. JC makes his every decision for his passed family, for his mother, father, friends and people but it seems that WWX no longer has his every decision driven by their shared past.
Im not saying whose right, what I am saying is that JC cannot be blamed for anything and that in most times, what he does is perfectly justified and often the right, the HUMAN, the natural choice, unlike WWX more robot, logical and seemingly divine morality and decisions.
@@flyatnight-1812 Did we read the same novel, honestly? Let me remind you that before the fall of Lotus Pier, Qishan Wen has already attacked Qinghe Nie and Gusu Lan UNPROVOKED. And that as the indoctrination was happening, numerous medium and small sects were continuously being annexed - In a few adaptations, this was foreshadowed also by the Pingyang Yao sect leader coming to Lotus Pier with only one disciple because everyone else was just killed by the Wens. Did the Yao Sect provoke Qishan? Another refresher : Wang Lingjiao and Wen Zuliu was sent to Lotus Pier as an envoy to establish a surveillance office, but WHO actually attacked and provoked the envoy? Oh no, it was Madam Yu, who was much too prideful to be bossed around by someone of lower rank. Wei Wuxian's slight against Wen Chao has the consequences of Wang Lingjiao asking for him to be whipped, and he WAS whipped. If Madam Yu was not such a prideful bitch who put her pride above the lives of her constituent, then that would have been it. Wei Wuxian would be suitably punished, and Yunmeng becomes a supervisory office. That's it.
And let's not be naive, MDZS has a complex and realistic setting. Whatever happens, the Wens WILL attack or annex Yunmeng Jiang because geographically they have most of the Southern waterways that's vital to trading. There is no way Qishan Wen would not want to claim Yunmeng if they want control and domination of the cultivation world. Please try to look beyond the teenage angst of a boy throwing a tantrum because he was not loved enough and see the political implications here.
Also lmao at "JC cannot be blamed here" because it's "human" to react like that. honestly, that is VERY insulting towards many, many people who are trying very hard to overcome familial trauma and breaking out of the cycle of abuse. There are a lot of people with backgrounds like JC, but it's NOT normal for them to lash out to the point that JC did. It's NOT normal and "human" to blame others to the point of physically hurting them, it's NOT normal to ostracize the innocent just because of their name or just because they won't do what you say, it's NOT normal to lead a slaughter and torture of people just because "you lost things". I'm honestly worried about your standards of "humanity" and what abusive behaviors are "normal" and to be excused using mental health. Please be more respectful towards the concept of overcoming mental health problems and trauma, NOT everyone uses or justifies their abusive behavior like that.
@@limochou3410 1. They were threatening to cut wei wu xian's hand off, and that is why Madame Yu interjected, to protect WWX.
2. You put things in a realistic setting saying the takeover was inevitable but I doubt the clan wipe was intended. They wanted to set up observational stations for that particular reason. Clearly they aren't interested in killing everyone since Gusu clan was left alive and even if they needed a example, it didn't have to be Lotus Pier.
3. Familial trauma? Cycle of abuse? You realize his family is all dead, there is no familial trauma.
4. I'm just gonna assume you mean people who lost all their family, relatives and friends. You say it's not human to blame others to the point of physically hurting them. If ISIS killed everyone you know, I don't think you'd be trying to figure out who in ISIS is not evil. The best part is that you can't assume what is the "human" thing to do without experiencing it yourself.
5. Since you made everything realistic and deep, then you must also know that this is set within a time far before our age of information. These people have not pondered the ethics of war, genocide. To them, killing everyone in a clan that wronged you as punishment is the norm. If you were Jiang Chen, you'd take your revenge in exactly the same way, maybe even worse if you had no knowledge of the present day.
6. All this is to make a case for that I even think WWX is partially to fault for Jiang Chen's beliefs at the end of the anime. WWX never really became his right hand man, always ignored him to do alone what he believed in. This reminds me of something I just came across today is that, it is not enough just to be a martyr, you must also lead. WWX should have tried his best to convince JC to his cause at all costs however he just abandoned him when their philosophies differed but in reality, JC was not even that opposed to him in the first place.
7. Also Jiang Chen did nothing wrong. You talk about human this human that. Unless the tragedy happens to you, you cannot say what is the human thing to do, which is why you assume the worst case.
I did say JC did the human thing because what JC did was better than the worst case of what a human can do so he is already way more human. Humanity can become very evil, either because of love, or greed. JC is honestly a very nice human being already.
MXTX is amazing.. all of the stories are top tier no matter which adaption it is it always captures everything..
Jiang Cheng's loyalty is what caused his downfall.
Sure, his pride made him stubborn and cautious. But it was ultimately his unwavering loyalty to his family and clan that cost him everything.
One of the main differences between himself and Wei Ying was that Wei Ying was willing to stand up and fight for anyone, while Jiang Cheng was not. His extreme loyalty prevented him from doing anything that might reflect badly on his clan or cause harm for his family. For him, they always came first and everything else took second or third place. It was why he cared so much about appearances and why he really did take his brothers actions (choosing to fight for other people, doing things that were considered unorthodox and made the other clans snub their noses at them) as betrayal.
In his eyes, Wei Ying was choosing others over him and the side of their clan. He never really understood Wei Ying and that for Wei Ying there were no sides. Only people.
His loyalty? More like his pride and cowardice led to his downfall
I love jiang cheng as a character so much. he’s arrogant, prideful to a fault, vengeful, cold to his loved ones, and holds a massive grudge. But he’s just as broken as any of the other characters, if not the most. He’s spent half his life torn between letting go of his past and forgiving, and keeping his precious pride, the only thing he really has left after everything he’s lost. And I love the way his arc ends on such a bitter note; just like how wei ying intended for jiang cheng to never find out about the golden core, jiang Cheng’s sacrifice will never be known by the other And their friendship can never go back to what it used to be, unless Jiang cheng learns to let go, apologize, and forgive. One manages to feel so much for him even while he always seems to be on the objectively morally “wrong” side of things.
我哭了....羡羡總是為他人付出，因為他不想再失去家人了
Nunca me cansaré de repetirlo: JiangCheng tambien merecia tener un final feliz.
Me parece hermoso que WeiYing ahora y para siempre tenga a LanZhan, aún y con todos los errores que cometio e incluso las muertes que provocó y que él mismo reconoce porque ¿quién no se equivoca? Eran tiempos de guerra y la campaña para derribal al sol fue terrible en muchos sentidos, asi que reitero; es muy bello que haya conseguido la tranquilidad y el amor incondicional en el segundo jade...
Pero ¿y JiangCheng? ¡Claro que se equivocó! Allí hubo demasiados problemas de comunicación y los complejos que con tanta saña sus padres le enveneraron el corazón, pero es indiscutible el amor que JC le tiene a WWX porque WeiYing le dio su nucleo dorado, pero JiangCheng lo perdió por salvar la vida de WeiYing, él se sacrificó por él, por su hermano. ¿No es un poco lo mismo?
WWX murio y JC tuvo que cargar con las secuelas de una posguerra sin absolutamente nadie de su familia o por lo menos de su generacion con él, una secta destruida y un sobrino huerfano al que criar. Si eso no es suficiente para tener empatia por el personaje, entonces no sé que lo sea.
Solo uno de los dos orgullos de YunmengJiang tuvo su final feliz y eso siempre me deja una sensacion de tristeza.
PD: ¡Tambien abogo por ti LanXiChen! ¡Tu tambien mereces ser feliz, nada de lo que ocurrió con tus hermanos jurados fue culpa tuya!
PD2: NieHuaisang es un crack, da miedo el hombre.
¿Sabes porque WWX si tuvo un final feliz? porque el si acepto todos y cada uno de sus errores, lo que JC en toda su vida nunca a podido hacer (ni creo que pueda). Su relacion ya no es la misma a falta de comunicación y otras mil cosas mas.
Otra cosa ¿Cuándo perdió su núcleo por "salvarlo"'? Lo perdió por su Inmadurez, egocentrismo, el ser irracional y obstinado.
Claramente WWX le dijo que no saliera del "escondite" en el que estaban, ese fue el motivo por lo cual lo perdió, WWX no estuvo en peligro para que JC pudiera salvarlo.
No digo que JC no halla sufrido, ¡por lucifer! perdió a toda su familia y se volvió líder de toda una secta estando solo y siendo un niño!
Pienso que WWX no le debe nada, mas que el amor de hermanos que en un pasado le entrego y la crianza y el techo que FM le dio.
Mas en cambio creo que JC le debe mucho a su hermano.
PD: Soy la defensora e abogada de Wei Wuxian. 😌
Estoy deacuerdo con lo que dijiste de Lan Xichen, el no tuvo la culpa de nada de lo que paso con sus hermanos.
@@gretaparini2269 Amiga no entiendo tu comentario, es evidente mi preferencia por Jiang Cheng asi como la tuya por Wei Wuxian... entonces ¿comentas que deje de preferir a JC y desear su felicidad porque WWX es... mejor persona? En verdad no entiendo, estoy segura de que no mencioné nada en contra del personaje de WWX (es mi 2do personaje favorito despues de JC por supuesto) asi que... ¿por qué la aclaración de las razones por las que JC no tuvo un final feliz y WWX si? La comparación en ese sentido se me hace hasta un poquito cruel.
Entiendo que a muchas personas no les gusta JC y es muy respetable, para gustos colores, no pasa nada pero... criticar a JC en un comentario de una fan de JC... ¿No es esa una mentalidad de hater?
Sobre el sacrificio de JC por WWX y que como consecuencia Jiang Cheng perdio su nucleo dorado... me siento confundida, en la novela se menciona en el capitulo 110 y en la animación tambien se da a entender perfectamente como ocurrio ese incidente, asi que... no entiendo tu comentario al respecto, basicamente una negación al respecto.
Literalmente JC vio venir a los Wen en el lugar en donde estaba esperando a WWX y se puso a salvo, pero inmediatamente despúes vio a los Wen ir hacia donde WWX estaba comprando, JC supo que descubririan a su hermano y por eso salió de su escondite, el deliberadamente llamó la atencion de esos malditos para que WWX no estuviera en peligro, luego sucedio lo que todos sabemos, perdió su nucleo dorado. Ese secreto JC se lo lleva a la tumba y es algo que a los fans del personaje, nos duele mucho.
Mi comentario no se trato de si WWX le debe algo a JC o viceversa, simplemente que desearia de todo corazón que mi personaje favorito tuviera un final feliz al igual que el protagonista, su hermano.
Asi que reitero una vez más, no entiendo tu comentario amiga.
Que bonito es encontrar a una fan de JC que, a pesar de amor al personaje, acepta que el también cometió errores, y estoy infinitamente de acuerdo con cada una de tus palabras, ambos merecían un final feliz, por todo lo que pasaron ambos necesitaban una superación, no hubo comunicación, el secreto que JC guardo para no darle más dolor a su hermano y que Wei no sintiera que le debía a JC , dado que el se sacrifico para que Wei no fuera capturado y tuviera el destino, algo que también hizo Wei al entregar su núcleo.
Eso fue una hermandad viva, sacrificarse por salvar al otro; realmente lamento el final de su relación aunque siento que seria bueno dejar el pasado y dar dos conclusiones, la uno seria tratar de remendar los fragmentos o simplemente seguir en la vida, puede que ya no como hermano ni como amigos, solo como personas que alguna vez compartieron vida pero es más difícil.
Soy un mar de lágrimas ahora 💔
Yo también creo que Jiang Cheng merecía su final feliz, al igual que Lan Xichen ;-;
This scene is in my top 5 F* u moments...@4:41 Lan Zhan had enough of JC angry outburst at his Wei Ying. This is the moment I knew LZ would have killed him if not for WY sakes, he gave him that STFU energy blast, knocking his topknot off.
Lan Zhan : tu a mi esposa no le hablas así!
Me dió pena Jiang Cheng pero él juzgó mal a Wei Ying aún conociéndolo y Lan Zhan sin embargo siendo más lejano le creyó y estuvo a su lado.
Honestly props to the author for creating such a gorgeous story and such complex human characters 👌🏻
"You said you'd never betray me" My broski that was before you stood around letting innocent bystanders be tortured and enslaved for the sake of your reputation
Este capítulo siempre me deja un sabor amargo...que triste...Jiang Cheng...siempre luchando por sobresalir, intentando demostrar su valía tratando de superar al otro cuando en realidad sólo debía superarse a si mismo... y se entera del sacrificio que no pidió pero que fue otorgado por un alma generosa y desprendida...la de su hermano de corazón...Siempre pensé que le faltó coraje para proteger con toda su alma a Wei Wixiang, aunque si lo hizo sin decir nada, a su manera. Pero y si lo hubiera hecho demostrando al mundo entero que creía y apoyaba a su hermano quizás se hubieran convertido en el clan más poderoso...y he aquí el gran problema ...no vivir en la sombra opacado por el brillo del otro...
Lo dudo aunque me hubiera gustado, si jc apoyaba a wwx seria tachado de traidor y yunmmeng totalmente destruida, el mundo esta demaciado mal, no lo hubiese dejado ni levantarse de los escombros
Si lo hubiera hecho, lo tacharían de traidor, él apenas estaba comenzando a reconstruir una secta que estaba prácticamente en las cenizas SOLO.
Yo creo no sería tan así, ya que el mismo Jin Guang Yao le dice a Jiang Cheng que si él le hubiera tenido más fe a su hermano y si lo hubiera respaldado las cosas tal vez no habrían sido de esa forma. Porque todos esos extras :) se aprovecharon del carácter de Jiang Cheng haciéndolo sentir menos que Wei Ying y de alguna forma lograron que se distanciaran cuando WY de llevó a los Wen a los Tumulos Funerarios. Además Nie Ming Jue no estaba en contra de Wei Ying sino que compartía sus principios. Wei Ying habría tenido el apoyo del clan Jiang, del clan Nie y hasta tal vez el de Gusu y las demás son sectas menores, por lo tanto irrelevantes. Las cosas si habrían sido algo distintas y no entre los clanes porque a las finales el clan Jin seguiría queriendo poder, pero la relación de WY y JC no se habría roto tanto.
@@natyrosales0453 Entiendo tu punto pero esta equivocado la idea,el mismo Yao le dice a Jiang chen que si hubiese apoyado a Wei ying,con la fuerza incomparable que Wei ying había adquirido y la creciente fuerza del del clan de Jiang chen hubiese sido un tatequieto para los demás clanes,porque los comentarios de que no eran cercanos hubiesen sido de inmediatos tumbados y lo pensarian dos veces antes de atacar a uno de ellos sabiendo que tendrían que enfrentarse a ambos,y el respeto hacia Jiang Cheng hubiese aumentado,porque hubiesen visto que el no sólo es fuerte por Wei ying sino que puede digirir su secta bien y defender a sus subordinados cuando se requiere,y no lo hubiesen visto como un tonto que no puede detener a su subordinado. Y eventualmente hubiesen respetado a Jiang chen por tener de subordinado a alguien tan fuerte. Todo era de pensar,hablar y apoyarse mutuamente y al final hubiesen ganado más de lo que perdieron por separarse y pelear entre ellos.
el mismo Yao le dice a Jiang chen que si hubiese apoyado a Wei ying,con la fuerza incomparable que Wei ying había adquirido y la creciente fuerza del clan de Jiang chen hubiese sido un tatequieto para los demás clanes,porque los comentarios de que no eran cercanos hubiesen sido de inmediatos tumbados y lo pensarian dos veces antes de atacar a uno de ellos sabiendo que tendrían que enfrentarse a ambos,y el respeto hacia Jiang Cheng hubiese aumentado,porque hubiesen visto que el no sólo es fuerte por Wei ying sino que puede digirir su secta bien y defender a sus subordinados cuando se requiere,y no lo hubiesen visto como un tonto que no puede detener a su subordinado. Y eventualmente hubiesen respetado a Jiang chen por tener de subordinado a alguien tan fuerte. Todo era de pensar,hablar y apoyarse mutuamente y al final hubiesen ganado más de lo que perdieron por separarse y pelear entre ellos.
I think the voiceactor did such a great job bringing JC his emotions over, ive read the novel and really wanted to know how they would bring this to life and I am very pleasently suprised how well its done!
La verdad siento que a Jiang Cheng le hará bien la reclusión. Necesita relajarse y procesar no solo esto de lo que se acaba de enterar, sino también sanar las heridas. Él necesita meditar y tomarse un tiempo para dejar fluir y solar todo lo malo.
Totalmente, aunque su orgullo y su egoísmo no lo dejan :c
Bueno creo que estan un poco equivocadas sin ofender pero creo que el ya estuvo demasiado tiempo solo aún con gente alrededor, él busco al wei para que le dijera la verdad el por qué se alejaba de él, siempre quiso a su hermano cerca, el Wei nunca se dejó ayudar y eso que la uva se lo decía claro, en cambio el otro actuó despreocupado sin responsabilidad siempre mintiendo, cuando volvió a la vida le seguía huyendo, eso le dolió más. Creo que a veces es mejor afrontar los problemas y resolverlos con la persona involucrada, sin terceros. Esa era la mejor manera de curar sus heridas y poder seguir adelante. Orgulloso no creo que fuera. Tuvo que hacerse de un carácter y fama para evitar que hicieran menos su clan y sacar a su gente adelante a pesar de estar sólo y recuperó a su sobrino tratando de darle todo el amor que podía aún en su tremendo dolor. Siento que nunca tuvo tiempo de tener duelo porque su vida solo fue de perdidas desde pequeño.
MDZ is a great novel which showcased different characters with different views of morales and priorities.
No matter how many times I read this scene in the novel makes me wants to cry every often 😢
Do you know which chapter?
@@jadaine8325 If I remember correctly, it's around in 80 chapters and up, I think. Preferrably around 88 or 89. Somewhere around those chapters about that scene. ^_^
@@winterscarlette4204 Thank you :)
No one's talking about Wen Ning, he literally the best boy😭
Wen Ning was awesome here. I loved him even more for this.
I think death really mellowed Wei Wuxian out quick. Yet the one man who saw him as his own brother didn't stand by him in the beginning nor did Lan Wangji. LW was the FIRST to correct that wrong while JC spread more hate that thankfully his nephew, as time went on, kicked the hate to the curb and wanted to know his uncle that was gone so long. In the chibi shorts, Jin Ling even told Fairy that JC's attitude and harshness would get him nowhere. JC has the chance to do the same LW did, but instead, he insulted him and tried to smear his name in the ground once more. I also read that LW knocking the headpiece off was symbolic as if to say JC had one more word to utter toward Wei Wuxian before LW would strike and kill JC. That was basically a warning shot to JC to shut up while you still can.
makes me wonder what the heck happened in the afterlife that made him turn back to his normal self 😅
@@eastbow6053 That I couldn't say, the author never said how he was in the afterlife except I think Wei Wuxian did say something of it being dark and lonely. So that's a big 13 year gap that no one knows and I doubt the man would even talk on if the author did like a midquel series or something.
I LOVE THE MANHWA, LIVE ACTION, ANIME WAHHHH THIS IS SO GOOD BTW I'M REWATCHING THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN
The fact that Jiang Cheng losing his golden core because he tried to save Wei Ying is just so heartbreaking. In the end, whether it’s Wei Ying or Jiang Cheng who lose their golden core, the ending will be the same
Yup. Meanwhile, imagine jc blaming himself deep down for causing all these problems with wy... if wy didn't lose his golden core, he wouldn't have done demonic cultivation in the first place. and everything that happened after, wouldn't have taken place the way it did.
He's so emotionally constipated
Chorei nessa cena lendo o novel, chorei vendo o dorama e estou a chorar vendo no anime.
Qual episódio é esse?
Honestly Wen Ning has every right to be this angry, and Lan Wangji's gesture of knocking off Jiang Cheng's Guan was right on the nose since for all his mania for status and honor, Jiang Cheng IS a dishonorable man seen from the very values he adhered to. Jiang Cheng goes on and on about the debts Wei Wuxian owed him, but never ONCE considered that he himself owed Wen Ning and Wen Qing a life debt for saving them and retrieving his parents' bodies IN A TIME OF WAR. Never ONCE did he consider that Wei Wuxian gave his precious boon (false as it is) to an Immortal Master and won him the war that took back Lotus Pier. Debts only exist when it should be paid to him, how honorable is that? :D
And the commenters nodding your head that "Wei Wuxian was to blame for the fall of Lotus Pier and Yanli's death", like did you just skip all the worldbuilding and political nuances of the series? It's so clear that the Wens were on a warpath to put down all the large sects that might go in their way, and Lotus Pier has always been in danger whatever happens. Why is no one blaming Yu Ziyuan instead who actually attacked the Wen messenger because she was a too-proud bitch? Out of some weird filial feelings towards your "mother in law", ha? And all y'all not even seeing Yanli as a human being with choices when it was her who decided to go into a battlefield UNARMED by her own free will - Like please, inherent misogyny is a thing but female characters DO have agency as well aside from being fodder for the male characters' manpain. Stop using her conscious sacrifice as merely a token to blame stuff on others like Jiang Cheng did!
Tnx for spitting facts✨
People are so insistent on drinking the JC-produced Kool-Aid that the fall of Lotus Cove was 100% WWX's fault, while in every version Wang Lingjiao came to Lotus Pier to subdue the Jiangs. It was only after WLJ said that Lotus Pier would be turned into a Supervisory office and the Jiangs would be under HER control that Yu Ziyuan legitimately attacked her, which dominoed into everyone getting slaughtered. Previously she was just fine and dandy whipping WWX, and only at the slightest nudge to her pride did she ruin things. And while we're at it, can we talk about how INCOMPETENT the Yunmeng Jiang leaders are? They've known that two out of the non-Wen great sects have been attacked without provocation nor warning, but they have ZERO defense plans and evacuation plans? It's so easy to blame a teeenager huh, but soooo difficult to see when rich and powerful people don't do their jobs properly!
Hear hear!
EXACTLY 💯
One of the few comments with common sense in this video. Also, for the one constantly talked about debts like JC, that dude didn't do anything to repay the debt he owned the Wen siblings and even Wei Wuxian, as if he thinked entitled to their helps.
El nunca te traicionó, solo es desinteresado y no le gusta la injusticia y prejuicios. Tu eres quien le dio la espalda por tu orgullo, dolor cegado.
wow含光君帅知识护魏婴猛
😢 this scene is so emotional! Got my eyeballs crying all over again! No matter which version, tears will always fall for this scene.
This is by far one of the best scenes in the series.
they really were just kids caught up in terrible circumstances. my heart cant take how much love they really had for one another. so many misunderstandings, dont hate jiang, he was just a kid in a cruel world.
edit:
i know this comment is receiving a lot of criticism so i just want to clear some things. first jiang is not justified for all the things that he did or continues to do to wei ying. he definitely owes him an apology. second yes he did all these things to his brother as an adult. the kid i mentioned was when he lost everything at the age of 18.
when i was 18 i didnt understand the importance of family, if i had lost mine in such a tragic way i would have lost my mind and hated every person who so much as looked at me. now that im 26 and i have been through loss, i understand that i cant just take out my anger and hurt on everyone. no matter how much i just want to scream at people i have to remember its not their fault my best friend died and that the rest of my friends made poor decisions that made them go away. its not their fault that im alone, life happens and i will continue to live every moment like its my last. no matter how much life hurts. all i wanted to say is that i understand how he came to be and i dont hate him for it. thank you for listening. im going to go and smile through the tears. have a great day beautiful people.
I dislike Jiang Cheng because he showed no integrity when the Wen elders and children were being killed. He owed Wen Ning and Wen Qing a great deal even without knowing about the golden core. JC went the easy route and turned his back on the weak and helpless, making an enemy out of Wei Ying himself.
LOL what he was 21 something when he decided to murder his "supposedly" brother. Anyone with half a heart can tell that's wrong, especially after he lied and said WWX betrayed and go against ALL the other cultivation sects. Like what the fuck, I never understand why people think he's misunderstood, he made his choices, clearly and without remorse. Think about it, XUE YANG regretted killing Xiao Xingchen, a man he met like what, a few years? He tried to bring him back to life, even go after WWX to restore his soul. JC gladly murdered WWX AND had zero issue whipping MXY with the whip that was supposedly be able to whip out the soul in case someone is possesed. HE KILLED WWX AND WILLING TO DO IT AGAIN!!!!!! He murdered many demonic cultivators for the sin of following WWX's path despite the fact they're innocent (he never went after Xue Yang because guess what, he's a fucking coward who murders weaker folks and afraid of going after anyone with power). Lol say what you want, there are zero love between them, and I'm super glad at the end of the novel WWX finally understand there can be no overlap for their paths - one is evil, one is good. Even the author said she was afraid JC would overshadowed XY as a villain, how on earth do people still think he's good? jfc
Oh wow, standards for humanity has really dropped to sub-basement levels, huh? Was it "kid" behavior to disembowel your shixiong and declare him an enemy of the cultivation world, FULLY KNOWING that he only harbors elderlies and a kid? Kid behavior to go and slay a whole settlement of them? To hunt down random people and torture them with a first-class spiritual tool to let out anger? To neglect calls for help? What the fuck kind of kids are you around, Erika?
I despise JC as much as Lanzhan does, because he betrayed his own clan rules, betrayed the people that saved his life several times, betrayed wei ying time and time again while wei ying was doing the right thing, and after that, he took to his own hands to raise their nephew to hate wei ying. A horrible human being. I'm so glad wei ying is out of his grasp for good and with people that truly care and love him.
@@rombongbong At that point of history, JC thought WWX was the reason his brother-in-law and his sister died, leaving his 1 month-old nephew orphan.
Before her sister was killed, JC was still willing to cover his brother for the death of JZ, and asked WWX to abandon the Wens not because he didn't care, but because he feared that if WWX continued down that path, he couldn't be able to protect him any longer, because he couldn't contain the hatred of the 4 clans. Then WWX asked him to not do it, as he didn't want to be a burden for JC. When WN and WQ voluntarily got caught in exchange for the death of JZ, it wasn't JC but rather a bunch of people around him who called for the death of WWX. All of that changed when their sister died.
If we take the perspective of JC, he cares more about his family than the rest (which is a very common trait among humans). Because WWX first saved LWJ and the girl, the whole clan got killed. Then, because WWX tried to protect the Wens and attacked the Jins, the political situation turned against him once again, leading to the death of his sister. The pain JC felt was basically unbearable for him at this point, as in his perspective he warned WWX about this, and he didn't listen. He didn't even know about the reason why he decided to choose the demonic path depsite how dangerous it was.
JC is a much more rational thinker and will first think about those he cares about. WWX will act for what he thinks is right first, usually without thinking (or caring basically) about the consequences of his actions. From my perspective, there is no "good" or "bad" here. Just tragedy. One guy wanted to protect those he loved the most but in the end couldn't because the other guy wanted to protect everyone and failed to.
Also, it has been confirmed that JC didn't technically kill WWX although he was leading the campaign against him. While not clearly stated, a popular theory in the fanbase is that WWX died while destroying the tiger amulet.
So yes, JC is not "evil", tragic circumstances made him hate WWX as much as he loves him.
江澄，你究竟是恨還是不恨啊⋯⋯哎
I honestly loved this part so much both in the drama,book, and anime you can really see how Lan Wanji feels and I love that seeing as how normally he looks just like a statue-💀
You can clearly see his anger at the end when he shuts Jiang cheng up and how hurt Wei Wuxian is but most importantly you can also see how hurt and betrayed jiang cheng feels, how left in the dark he feels I’m literally crying they all deserve the world 😭😭😭
Jiang Cheng darling, a man like wei wuxian could never be anyone subordinate. A man like wei wuxian will always stands out without even trying.
Then WWX should have done the honorable thing and left the YMJ Sect straight after the war.
If Zuko can do it, JC could. I'm mad for his behavior of pride and selfishness because he's too cowardly to face up his own abusive traits. That's sad for him. Hopefully one day he can reflect on that and so, not being alone with his resentment.
Zuko has Uncle Iroh constantly reminding him doing something good until the end. If Yanli didn't die JC could turn up like him.
Zuko really worked hard and he actually WANTED to change - I think that's the crux of it. Jiang Cheng has had more than a decade to think over what happened and perhaps let go of the resentment or channel it into something good, but the truth is that he just doesn't want to. If you compare it with Lan Wangji, he also had the reason to be as resentful and angry as Jiang Cheng, but he used his own tragedies to build himself into someone who could instead prevent something like that ever happening again. And that's why Hanguang-Jun here really deserves to knock over Jiang Cheng's guan like that.
@@namih190 Hear hear! Many redemption arcs are rocky and messy, but the point of it is that the character has to want it. JC never felt like he ever did anything wrong, as it's somehow always WWX's fault that anything wrong happens, and if you don't acknowledge your faults then you'll never be able to change. It's that simple.
I swear, these titles are always the best 😭
this scene never fails to make me cry 😭😭😭 the novel, the drama, and donghua when it show this scene, it hits so damn hard
I'm impressed with this comment section. So many insightful responses.
the only mistake aCheng has is actually not listening aXian, the only mistake aXian has is actually not telling aCheng, deep down they really care about each other, that's the differences they have compared to xincheng and lan zhan,,😫
Yeah right except for one little mistake cheng was trying to kill xian but no nothing special
@@ggerdagg uhm, in novel wwx didn't killed by JC, but wwx kill himself when destroy Yin Hufu. Indeed JC the one who lead the rebellion against wwx but, in the end he couldn't kill wwx, then wwx kill himself.
@Jade River jin zixuan was a dumbass who told wei wuxian to put down his weapon when 300 hundreds of archers were shooting at him. Jin zixuan was trying to restrain wei ying when repeatedly to him to not come closer
And so he got killed!!
So you remember that honey??
You sound like sect leader yao trying to shit on wei ying
@@miorichan3546 Even Wei Ying says in the anime that he was not killed by him. I guess people are only remembering what was continuously repeated
@@sukhoig7464 Exactly, no one in their right mind would have put down their weapon in that situation. It’s a me or you situation.
Tbh I've seen a lot of fan discourse where Wen Ning is supposedly "mean" towards JC in this scene and that he has "no rights" to shame JC for something he "didn't know". Like what kind of drivel is that? Wen Ning has EVERY SINGLE RIGHT! Boy was little more than a teen when he risked being booked for treason by helping hide Wei Wuxian and the Jiangs and then recovering the Jiang parents' bodies during a war, not counting the whole core transfer mess where. Here you can see the quality difference between Lan Xichen, who was forever indebted and acknowledged JGY's help in hiding him (even though the stakes were WAY lower for JGY) and JC who's just "omg who dis" even knowing the Wen siblings helped him with his LIFE.
Like okay sure he's a smol wooby bean who doesn't have any power after the war, BUT remember that JC actively persecutes WWX and the Wens by declaring them the enemy of the cultivation world and headed the siege even knowing everyone were just non-cultivators. JC is a guy who sees a toddler and be like, eh, he deserves to die for carrying the name Wen. Wen Ning deserves the world and he CERTAINLY deserves to slap manchild sandu sengshou with the observation of what a lacking person he is (Plus a combo of HGJ rightfully knocking over his guan because hon, money and your family name does NOT make you a honorable person :p)
Thank you!! 💯💯
十三年前有雲夢雙杰、姑蘇雙壁
十三年後雲夢雙杰看似不在，可雙杰仍在，雖然江澄的金丹是魏無羨給的，但雲夢有難，魏無羨絕對不會坐視不管，虞夫人曾交代魏無羨要保護好江澄，那魏無羨絕對不會丟下江澄不管，而且雲夢是他成長的地方，他更不可能放下雲夢，並且會帶著姑蘇藍氏一起，所以雙杰沒散，只是暫時分別而已
Que penita el sacrificio de Wei Ying... pero Lan Zhan tan fiel...siempre a su lado 😔😔😔❤💜💖
when i read this part it felt sooo unbearable, i was never even expecting such a thing from wei ying. it was at that point i truly understood how highly he viewed the family who had adopted him, raised and taken care of him. This one scene right here tied my feelings to the book.
Just Amazing
menurutku, wwx punya akhir yang bahagia karena dia mengakui kesalahanya, menerima apa yang terjadi, dan berusaha meperbaiki kesalahan, dia juga berusaha memberi tahu pada semua orang sisi lain dari kisah yang sebenarnya. sedangakan jiang cheng memiliki akhir yang kurang bahagia karena dia masih belum bisa menerima apa yang terjadi, dia belum bisa menerima kesalahannya sendiri bahkan dia terlalu menyalahkan wwx , dia kurang percaya diri, dia terlalu insecure, dia terlalu di butakan oleh kisah yang hanya dia lihat tapi dia tidak melihat sisi lain dari kisah yang sebenarnya, dia juga sangat menyangi wwx namun cara penyampaian rasa sayangnya kurang pas. aku tahu pasti gak rela sahabat masuk ke jalan yang salah, tapi kata katanya yang di ucapkan jiang cheng ke wwx malah membuat seolah olah semua masalah dibuat oleh wwx, disini dia dibuat seolah olah dia lupa kesalahannya dan kesalahan orang orang di sekitarnya. yaaaaa dia punya tempramen yang kurang baik.
ini sangat menyedihkan ketika mengingat masa masa mereka dahulu, membuat hatiku sangat sakit.
aku harap mereka yang pantas bahagia mendapatkan kebahagiaaanya
單單針對金丹這件事誰也不欠誰，當初要不是在外面打聽消息江澄把殺手引開，被毀金丹的可能就不是他了...
everyone in mdzs owes someone something… but we all agree the whole cultivation world owes wen ning and wen qing an apology which they’ll never get 😤😤 I’ll slander everyone but wen ning and wen qing
Well, the anime made it be like Jc never could forgive Wwx or care for him. But in the novel, this scene happen before Guangyao death, in the temple, Jc come to save them and gets a Blade on his chest bc he thought that Yao was going to hurt Wwx, so he thinked in him first and got hurt. Then he shout out how hurt he was be Wwx betrayal, how much he wanted Wwx to had trust him and tell him what was going on, and Wwx got sad bc he was trying to avoid this scene at most, but in the end, he couldn't.
Thank you for the reminder; I've actually just re-read the novel chapters and indeed JC acknowledged his hurt, and apologized to WWX, who in turn apologized for breaking his promise. However, (based on the english version I read) he went to the temple after (yet another) quarreling with JL and got injured due to JGY's sly diversionary tactics.
They got their closure. And after the battle he wanted to approach WWX to explain why he got caught by Wen troops but couldn't bring himself to do it.
When I have the time I will re-read the original Mandarin version which has more nuances that English language cannot express. Yet again, I'm reminded of how impressed I am by the writer Mo Xiang Tong Xiu! She was very young when she wrote this novel yet has so much insight into the complexities of human nature and relationships.
魏无羡多好的一个孩子啊😢😢😢
Está escena me desgarra el alma, no importa cuántas veces la vea/lea.😭 Aunque les quedó muy hermoso estoy un poco despecionada que no tuvieran su "cierre" en esta adaptación (Wei Ying no escuchara las palabras de Jiang Cheng, ni el la disculpa de Wei Ying) pero bueno al menos la carta del festival lunar deja entrever que ellos si hablan y se visitan frecuentemente. 💔
Holi, disculpa pero podrías contarme si ellos hacen las pases o algo así? Leí el libro hace mucho tiempo y no me acuerdo si quedan bien, o si JC no le vuelve a hablar mas.
@@susanahoria5149 se disculpan en casi el final del libro, en la parte del templo, aunque no se sabe si volvieron a hablar después de eso
@@susanahoria5149 en el libro no sale más que la disculpa, pero por el festival lunar chino de este año publicaron una carta de Lan Zhan a Wei Ying dónde entre varias cosas, hablaba que habían pasado más de 2 años y se quejaba de que Jiang Cheng lo dejaba entrar sin razón y era siempre muy ruidoso en los Recesos de la Nube. Por eso es que se especula que su relación ya sea medianamente normal.
@@kkissbl6860 amoOooo
and this is why communication is the key ! (as I was typing that, snot was dripping and big fat tears were falling.)
Jc considered Wei Wuxian as his subordinate, someone he can rely on but what Wei needed was someone who stood by his side no matter what the world says. JC thought wei Wuxian will say everything to him infact Jc never understood Wei Wuxian. The only one who did is Lan Zhan!
Well of course WWX was JC's subordinate in the YMJ Sect. What else could he be, considering that a Sect can't have two leaders. Jiang Yanli was also JC's subordinate before her marriage. On his side no matter what? When WWX didn't even have the common sense to give a half-way decent, reasonable explanations for his actions after he gave JC his word that he would support JC? Considering how badly WWX misread the whole situation with JGS, it would be more right to say that WWX never understood JC.
I feel for JC also. He was always with wei while growing up and played together. Lost his golden core for wei. Lost his parents his beloved sister and his brother in law.
But unaware of wei sacrifice and believed what people talked about wei during war.
But lz is always for wei 😘😍💞
Even after knowing the truth JC still wanted Wei Wuxian to apologise to him for not keeping the promise of forever being together as subordinate. But did JC ever thought him as a brother. No he never. He always said you promised to be my subordinate. And now too when the truth was out that wwx hadn't intentionally killed JZ. Jc still blames him for that.
It wasn't wwx problem that JF was a bad dad or MY was a bad mom. Yet he always did everything he could to protect his sibilings. Even JY she could have talked to her husband or brother. She went to show her wedding dress but never tried to talk to wwx.
And I think when thought carefully lwj was the only person who ever trusted wwx even when he didn't really had known wwx. They both only knew each other from three months of class. And after cave and lotus Pier burning wwx had changed completely. He was very rude and never tried to understand lwj. So I think his siblings who knew him for so long should have atleast trusted him and not abandoned him.
JC is THE perfect representation of the common rich, entitled man in power at that period. HIS feelings, honor, and good name is the most important thing, people are not people to him, just props to serve and cater to him.
I think JC wanted him with him fullstop I think he cared about Wei Wuxian alot but is bad at saying it.
@Historia That's the sort of excuse abusers use. WWX may understand but it is clear he is still hurt and hurt deeply by JC's cruel version of love. WWX will he happier without him in his life.
@@IncredibleLyrics oh he was just bad at expressing it you say? Then,pray tell me, how does abusing and leading a siege against a person be considered as an act of love?
I do think he thought of him as a brother he called him subordinate because of his inferiority issues
Was it wwx fault that jyl chose him even when she had a baby at home? JC twisted a lot of thing to fit his narrative.
I've always felt that it's very insulting towards JYL that JC framed her death as WWX's fault. Protecting WWX was her CHOICE, she's a person too with agency and the ability of thinking and choosing, but JC rendered her simply a victim who was just there. JYL deserved better and deserved to be seen as a PERSON.
@@ratri3319 And she literally enter into a camp of massacre,in a way or other she would have been killed,like it was going to happen anyway and the person who provoce the battle was not Wei ying but the others clans and Jiang chen himself.
THE RANDOM MUSIC WHILE SOMEONE IS SPEAKING IT CUTS THEM OFF 😭😭😭
Una de las escenas más tristes. Muchas gracias por la traducción, la estaba buscando.🙏
Sinceramente yo creo que JC actuó de esta manera es por que estaba celoso para quien no haya leído la novela justamente en esta escena LZ y WWX venían de estar abrazados bajo un árbol y JC los siguió para hablar con WWX sin embargo cuando los vio abrazados ahí se dio cuenta de que su hermano ya nunca volveria a estar a su lado creo que le entraron celos ya que sabía que ahora WWX ya tenía alguien, y por eso trato tan mal a LZ ya que lo vio como la persona que le quito a su hermano.
There were so many sad parts throughout the series. But in my opinion this one surpassed all.
Often he criticized Wei & always sided w/ others instead of the brother he grew up with.
Wei had his back for years but when his brother still sided w/ other disgruntled & jealous clan leaders instead of support Wei & some of the good Wen family who saved & helped him & the Jiang family it was a sad reflection of the kind of person he evolved into. Jiang did not pick up his father’s understanding or his sister’s good graces just the jealous & angry behavior & attitude of his mother. Wei gave what was best of him to save his brother & to maintain the Jains Clan legacy but this man is still consumed with his loss & anger; blaming him for not sticking around to be further mocked & criticized. That’s family for you sometimes. You give & you give. Sometimes at the end, you have strive for you own happiness. That is what is doing w/ Lan. Wei has already given enough of himself to everyone.
I love this analysis. ❤❤
Their misunderstanding destroyed their friendship forever. Weiying being asked many time by others 'why he didnt wield his sword?'
If someone ask me like this, made my heart being torn too pieces for soo many time.
He want to answer that question, but couldnt.
Make his heart broken to pieces because he has to repeat the same answer for many time.
I cried a lot though...😭😭😭
When saw the 1st episode, fell like comedy story. But, continue until 3rd volume make me criednlike crazy. It's about friendship between them, but one of them lost trust to his friend because of misunderstanding from others. Then, broke up their relationship. Soo sad..
The love story btwn Weiying & Lanzhan also made my heart broken too.. Lanzhan still waiting for Weiying even after 16years.
This is why i love this story sooo much. ❤
他們明明都很看重對方😭😭😭，
To be honest. Weiying in a really twisted sort of fate kind of way did keep his promise. He may not have been physically there but I would think the giving of one’s golden core to the one they were subordinate to is the most loyal thing you could do.