Just found this video and wanted to say thanks for the best tutorial on how to use the old KFC150 with new Garmin stuff. Game changer for me! Three years after you posted it!
Plane went into the shop today for the avionics upgrade. Can’t wait. Your other video was helpful as well regarding setting an initial pitch for the FD. You are basically training me on these before I even use them!
Very helpful, thanks. I was flying a new GTN 650 / GI 275 installation today and was not able to activate GPSS. Now I realize why - I wasn’t aware of the need to select it in the ADI!
Great video! I just did a whole panel upgrade in my ovation, I added the garmin gcu485 and it's definitely worth it. I use that more than anything in the airplane, saves so much time so you don't have to fumble through all those 275 menus or on mine the menus of the g500txi
Thank you! The gcu485 was not available when I had my GI275’s installed. However, I recently did additional upgrades to include a GTN750 XI, GFC500 and GI275 EIS. The control head for the GFC500 has two knobs that set the HDG and ALT on the 275 and have GPSS built in, almost as good as the 485 :)
Excellent video! I'm picking up my Encore on Monday from the shop. Will have your almost exactly your set up: 2 GI275s, KFC150, and GTN650. Great demonstrations of GPSS emulation. I was wondering how the AP and GI275s were going to work together and the "buttonology" during transitions. And Go Navy!
You will really enjoy your new setup Brian! The advantage you will have with the GTN650 vs my 530W is that the 650 will automatically switch the CDI on the 275 from GPS to VLOC when doing an ILS and flying toward the FAF and within a “gate” around the final approach course prior to the FAF. I have to do that manually. Both units will automatically switch back to GPS on the CDI when you press the OBS button to clear SUSP after the MAP. There is a setting on the AUX pages (CDI/Alarms) where you set the GTN to autoswitch. Go Navy!!
Nice GPSS depiction. The GI275 seem to be really nice units. But the 4 or 5 button pushes to switch GPSS on/off is a deal breaker. If someone is new to GPSS, it might not seem like a big deal. But after a few hundred hours with GPSS, and lots of IFR Approaches, the ability to turn GPSS on/off quickly, is essential.
Fully agree with the number of button pushes to toggle GPSS ON/OFF is a problem. Fortunately it is a software issue and from what my installer told me the next software update 2.30 has a solution to it. It wasn't a deal breaker for me since I knew that there would be a large number of complaints and Garmin would have a fix for it. Also a reason to make the video to increase number of comments about it and at the same time show how well it works.
I’ve got the ASPEN EFD1000 in my Ovation and the GPSS emulation is turned on and off on a button on the unit. So switching from GPSS to HDG is one button push which is very useful with ATC vectors.
Would be nice if Garmin changes how the GPSS emulation is toggled on/off. They have it on their list of changes. There are definitely advantages and disadvantages to each manufacturer's various units. One nice thing about the GI275 vs Aspen is that if you loose the airspeed (pitot ices up, breaks, cover left on) the rest of the unit keeps working: AI, ALT, HDG, etc. The Aspen gets all red X's. The GI275keeps everything else working. Try a brief takeoff and immediate landing on a looong runway with pitot cover on.
@@chriskoppel3940 That would explain why the Aspen STC requires keeping the ASI, VSI, TC and altimeter. If they weren’t there a blocked pitot would you leave the pilot instrument less, not good in IMC.
Hi Chris, thanks for those fantastic videos. I am thinking of getting rid of the vacuum system in my MSE and replacing the AI with the GI275. As a nav source I have already installed the GTN750xi. I am wondering if I also need to replace the HSI to get GPSS on my KFC-150? Also I am wondering how you get to steering in nav mode as I have nav info from the GTN750xi but I have to manually adjust the HSI to follow the correct power by the GTN. User error?
So, quite easily said, in GPSS the track is already computed by the GPS and will simply use the heading bug/mode to follow that track...including lead it as necessary. In NAV mode the autopilot has to reestablish a wind correction angle based on the new course and the need to resolve left/right deflections of the CDI.
From discussions with Garmin Aviation Support, the greatest complaint Garmin has re the GI 275 IS the deeply nested menu option for GPSS!! Supoosedly they have a fix for it in the upcoming software update. Should be coming out within a month according to my avionics shop.
@@chriskoppel3940 Version 2.32 is out and available at your installer. Check with them. It fixed the GPSS issues discussed. Specifically moving the GPSS softkey to the top of the menu and also providing the installer the ability to pull off a pin and place a switch on the panel that allows for easy selection between HDG and GPSS mode.
That’s a great demo, you clearly put a lot of thought and work into that, it was very helpful, thanks, but I’m a little concerned about so many people flying around with go pro cameras blocking their view of other traffic while heads down under VFR, with no safety pilot looking outside... please be careful, the big sky little airplane theory has serious limitations. With respect...
Ahhh!! Good comment spikelanch. No worries, my eyeballs do go out to check for traffic and it's also good to have TIS-B for alerts. There are still a small number of planes without ADS-B out though. Autopilot helps enormously to fly the plane and follow flight plan, relieving the pilot to monitor and check for traffic.
Hi Chris. I would like to thank you for your astonishing videos which I have found both enjoyable and informative. I am a co-owner of Robert Taylor who messaged you recently. We have a TB20 Trinidad with KFC150 + KAS297B + 2 x GNS430W's(with terrain) and we are looking to replace our King AI/FD plus HSI with 2 x GI275's - configured as #1=PFD and #2=HSI/Standby ADI. We would like to get a GFC500 at the same time but not yet sure if our budget will stretch to that and our KFC150 is working fine. So my questions are about the GI275's with a KFC150. I understand that you do not have a KAS297B so may I ask if you just use pitch hold for your climbs and descents on the A/P? I realise that you will have lots of other vertical options with a GFC500! Does the HSI map page on the GI275 import flightplan and waypoints from the GNS530W? Does the HSI map page on the GI275 import coastlines, airspace and similar data from the GNS530W? Does the HSI map page on the GI275 import terrain and obstacle data from the GNS530W? Do you have HSI map topo on the GI275 and if so, where does the topo data come from? I am trying to understand whether or not the GPS in the GI275 is needed for any of these items and whether or not the GI275 GPS antenna is required. I don't think we would be interested in synthetic vision but do you have that or have you tried it? Finally, I see that you have discarded your old ASI, VSI and altimeter. Does this mean that your lower GI275 is configured as a back-up ADI + ASI + VSI + altimeter? Thank you once again. Mervyn Porter
Hi Mervyn, Thank you for your very supportive and kind comments! You have lots of questions and will try to answer all of them. 1)..."ask if you just use pitch hold..." Yes, I used vertical pitch adjustments on the KFC150 for climbs and descents. What I did was to quickly set the pitch by using CWS on the yoke. While you depress it it disconnects the AP and allows you to hand fly and when you release it the KFC150 will set the flight director (FD) to the new pitch and revert back to the previous lateral mode (HDG, etc). 2) "...import flightplan and waypoints...?" Yes, it transfers the flight plan waypoints to the GI275's. The GI275's have their own navigation database that is separate from the 530W and needs to be updated independently. You can and should purchase a subscription that allows you to update all the Garmin devices in your panel. 3) "...HSI map page on the GI275 import coastlines...?" Nope, it has its own terrain, topo and obstacle database. This also answers your next question. 4) "...GPS in the GI275 is needed ...?" YES, you should definitely get the VFR GPS option since the AHRS likes to have speed to be able to keep its AI stable. You should connect it to the lower unit because if you lose the GNS430W and/or pitot tube you will still have a GPS source for speed even if it is ground speed. Checkout my video on Torture testing the GI275's. 5) Yes, I have synthetic vision and really like it. What is most useful is the Flight Path Indicator which helps in approaches by lining it up with the beginning of the runway. Great for additional situational awareness besides "flying the needles" 6) "... lower GI275 is configured as a back-up ADI...?" YES, it is an MFD/Standby ADI. The standby unit can either be an MFD/Standby ADI or an HSI/Standby ADI. There are some installers that erroneously believe that you can only have it as an HSI/Standby ADI. They are wrong. The STC has certain requirements for you to be able to remove the analog six-pack. Your dealer/installer should know them. Hope that has answered all your questions.
@@chriskoppel3940 Hi Chris and thank you for your detailed and helpful reply. I think we are going to go for 2 x GI275's and a GFC500 autopilot in our 1990 TB20 Trinidad. The work is scheduled for August, to coincide with our annual check. I would be pleased to keep you posted on our progress as we move forward. Best regards, Mervyn
So to understand, your AP does not have a switch between GPSS and heading mode? You are controlling that through the 275? I have an stec 50 with GPss switch, so I can switch between heading bug and gpss data. Also, on my stec I can turn heading off and use wings level and use turn knob on AP to turn to next heading, then adjust heading bug or use knob to maneuver if going to be off course for a short bit. I agree, if the 275 is working the gpss and heading, those 4 or 5 button interaction are too much. Also, While hand flying practice is good, having to hand fly the turn to get new course and wings level seems cumbersome. Great video and your providing some of the best and earliest real world use of the 275!!! I am looking to upgrade my panel after getting my instrument ticket (written next weekend the to do some flying)... I am torn between the options and am really enjoying your reviews and comments.
Thank you for your comment Richard! You deduce correctly: my KFC 150 autopilot does not have a native built in GPSS switch (or mode). For lateral modes I have HDG, NAV (takes its info from CDI deviations), APR and BC (back course) or wings level if none of those are selected. The buttonology to enable/disable GPSS is definitely cumbersome and I will likely pick NAV mode enroute if I anticipate several HDG changes. Then I just go to HDG mode and control AP with the heading bug. I will use GPSS once cleared for an approach since I don't expect any heading changes thereafter and I will work it in my procedures to use on a missed approach. It will then fly the course to the hold and also fly the hold perfectly. If your Stec 50 has GPSS switch you won't need to do any buttonology on the 275 to enable/disable it. I presume the GPS connection to the AP will still remain although you should check with the avionics shop and/or Garmin.
@@chriskoppel3940 Thanks for the response. I will explore the how it works when I get there. I just know with my current set up, non-275, I have a button on the panel I can press and immediately switch from HDG to GPSS mode. I have hit the button when HDG was not where I expected and AP started turning... Anyway, again, thanks for the 275 PIREP. I am really leaning towards them, as I can then ditch several of my older gauges and gain some cleaner more organized panel. I have the 1966 arrangement, where gaguges seemed to just randomly land on the panel as an, oh yeah, it might need a AI. Hey, lets add a DG over here... What, you want airspeed, how about bottom left just above altimeter in bottom bottom left..... VSI, right under yoke seems like a great place.....
I would think if you turn nav mode off on the autopilot and engage HDG mode that it would follow the heading bug on the HSI without having to go through the menus on the ADI and just leave it in GPS Steering. In other words GPSS is enabled in NAV mode on the autopilot but has nothing to do with it when you put the autopilot in HDG mode with NAV off.
Hi Jeff, If you have an autopilot without native GPSS and you have the 275 on emulated GPSS (after buttonology to do so), then flying the autopilot on NAV mode will NOT use the precise GPSS course guidance that comes from the GPS. Instead it will look at the CDI deviations on the HSI and correct accordingly to keep it centered which is not as precise as GPSS. With the autopilot on HDG mode and the 275 in emulated GPSS then it will folllow the GPSS course guidance. You need to be in HDG mode on the AP in order to follow GPSS and not in NAV mode. With the 275 in GPSS mode and AP in HDG mode the HDG bug on the 275 has absolutely no effect on what the autopilot does. You can turn it 90 deg off course and it will completely ignore it. However, if you toggle back to HDG mode on the 275 with the buttonology I showed then the AP will definitely follow the HDG bug when in HDG mode. NAV mode will always correct for CDI deviations and not GPSS. Most of the time in calmer winds there may not be much difference between flying NAV vs GPSS while enroute.
Good morning, I have the same setup in my Saratoga. Have you been leaving the GI275 in GPSS mode and normally flying the plane like that? I do not like not being able to set the heading bug and toggle between the 2. I just learned about the GPSS mode so I am not used to the idea of putting the GPS in HDG but not sure if I like flying like this. Just wondering your thoughts? Great video.
Good morning David, Thank you!! I do not usually fly in GPSS mode enroute when on a relatively short flight due to the likely heading changes by ATC in that phase of flight and the buttonology required to toggle GPSS/HDG on the 275. I will fly in GPSS mode enroute on longer trips though. I will also use GPSS once cleared for an approach because it will fly the approach legs more accurately than NAV mode on the autopilot. I will select APR on the KFC 150 once the 530 changes from TERM to approach type available (LPV, etc) so that it will follow vertical guidance. Garmin is coming out with a software upgrade this month where they address the deeply nested GPSS/HDG toggle and simplify it. Wonder what that will be?
sorry if I missed it, but how come your lower 275 is the MFD version. i thought it needed to be a dedicated HSI when installed in the dual configuration. Thx!
Per the STC It has to be an ADAHRS unit that can be configured as HSI/Standby ADI or an MFD/Standy ADI. The HSI pages are just a subset of the MFD pages. I fly with either the HSI or HSI map page most of the time anyway but have the option of also displaying traffic weather, terrain or a Map page that can be panned besides zoomed in or out. A bit cheaper to do HSI/Standby ADI. When the primary ADI fails the bottom unit however it is configured will revert to its Standby ADI mode and stay on that page continuosly. It will not be able to display any other pages besides the Standby ADI page. You must also have a manual reversionary switch to force the bottom unit to go to ADI in case it did not do it automatically. Hope that answered your question.
@@chriskoppel3940 thx. I guess I don't understand the benefit of the HSI/standby ADI config when the MFD/Standby ADI config comes with the HSI and is legal in a dual 275 IFR setup.
I am not sure if it does. It should because the switch could select either heading input from the 275 or GPSS from the GNS or GTN and forward to autopilot. Unless.then275 processes the GPSS signal prior to sending to the autopilot. The 275 already sready acts like a switch. According to recent conversation with Garmin, the software upgrade coming out toward the end of April will have a fix to the deeply nested GPSS/HDG toggle issue along with some other improvements and fixes.
@Chris Koppel sounds good, was about to panic - we have an external switch on our classic panel now and it's very helpful. Your video made me really look forward to our new GI275 though. One question on altitude changes to confirm: you deselect ALT, then change the attitude with CWS pressed and release that again, so AP is in vertical attitude and HDG mode? There is still no Altitude Preselect for the KFC units, right?
@@michi795 Hi Michael, Update to GI275 software has not come out yet. Have no date from Garmin. Hopefully soon. The update sill support an external switch and also put the GPSS toggle at the first menu level. You are correct, for altitude changes deselect ALT on KFC 150 then depress CWS which will set the pitch for descent or climb and then release CWS. Autopilot will keep the pitch that was present when CWS was released. Lateral mode will be whatever is selected in the AP (HDG, NAV, APR). If no lateral mode is selected then it will keep wings level. I understand that there is an external unit for the KFC’s that will enable altitude preselect. I do not have it. Not sure how it interacts with the GI275 though.
@@chriskoppel3940 Hi Chris, thanks a lot for the extensive reply. I’ll check regarding altitude preselect with the avionics guys, we have a KAP150 which is pretty much the same without Flight Director. Now I’m in the last steps of my IR, training on a turbo arrow with the GFC 500… Talk about awakening desires that my bank account can’t fulfill ;-))
Hi Robert, The KFC150 does not have altitude preselect option installed and therefore behaves the same as before installing the GI275 - I have to press the ALT hold mode on the KFC150 once I reach my target altitude. The advantage with the GI275 is that it will give a visual alert at 1,000 ft above or below the target altitude dialed on it and a visual and aural alert at 200 ft above or below the target altitude. I am now replacing the KFC150 with a Garmin GFC500 and now will have Altitude preselect with capture as well as ability to climb or descend with a selected pitch, vertical speed or IAS. :) Also replacing the GNS530W with a GTN750 Xi which among other new features will also enable VNAV options. Hope that answered your question.
@@chriskoppel3940 thank you for your reply and does answer my question. We do have a KAS-297B which will then continue to drive/preselect the KFC-150 but obviously wouldn’t be interoperable with the 275. We are also exploring to upgrade the KFC-150 to the GFC500 but not 100% yet. Thank you for your videos, such great quality and source of information. Do you have an email at all could contact you on to pick your brains going forward?
I would prefer not to give an email in a public forum like UA-cam. You can pick my brain anytime by making a comment in this thread. No issues that way. BTW, since I did not have a KAS-297B in my plane prior to installing the GI275's I did not even research if they talk with each other. However, I am not sure why you still would not be able to use the 297B with the KFC150 in parallel with the 275. You would have to enter the altitude in both and the 275 would give you an aural alert while the 297B would hold the altitude. Just a thought. It is seamless with the 275 (or G3X or G5) and GFC500 combo.
The GPSS selection is so inconvenient as to warrant not purchasing the units. I go back and forth all the time, especially in B/C airspace where I get direct-to/on-course and turn left/right for traffic, vectors to final, whatever. Certainly there has to be some sort of external selector that can be devised to make this process simple.
They could have a simplified version of their GFC500 panel with the altitude/heading bug knobs + the steering modes that would be perfect. Flipping in and out of menus to setting alt bugs and steering modes is ridiculous.
According to my avionics shop as well as recent conversation w Garmin, the next software upgrade coming out toward the end of April will have a fix to the GPSS/HDG toggle issue in addition to other upgrades, fixes.
I have been hoping for either a Garmin physical GPSS/HDG button or software release that could make the button appear on HSI for over a year now. I have the same setup in my Seneca with the exception of KFC 200. I cannot believe Garmin did not think this through. A lot of hassle switching and at times out right dangerous. Garmin FIX THIS PLEASE!
geez no way I would be able to tolerate all those touches to switch between hdg and gpss. im assuming if you have the gfc 500/600 its a non issue, but as far as older autopilots the way you demo'd it is borderline non functional in busy airspace.
True. I use it enroute only if I expect few heading changes if any at all. Otherwise I'll use NAV enroute. Find it more useful once cleared for the approach and to fly published missed approaches
Just found this video and wanted to say thanks for the best tutorial on how to use the old KFC150 with new Garmin stuff. Game changer for me! Three years after you posted it!
Thank you! Hope you are enjoying your "hybrid" gear
Plane went into the shop today for the avionics upgrade. Can’t wait. Your other video was helpful as well regarding setting an initial pitch for the FD. You are basically training me on these before I even use them!
@@4thelake Neat!! You are welcome!
Very helpful, thanks. I was flying a new GTN 650 / GI 275 installation today and was not able to activate GPSS. Now I realize why - I wasn’t aware of the need to select it in the ADI!
Glad you found it helpful Jonathan!
Great video! I just did a whole panel upgrade in my ovation, I added the garmin gcu485 and it's definitely worth it. I use that more than anything in the airplane, saves so much time so you don't have to fumble through all those 275 menus or on mine the menus of the g500txi
Thank you! The gcu485 was not available when I had my GI275’s installed. However, I recently did additional upgrades to include a GTN750 XI, GFC500 and GI275 EIS. The control head for the GFC500 has two knobs that set the HDG and ALT on the 275 and have GPSS built in, almost as good as the 485 :)
Excellent video! I'm picking up my Encore on Monday from the shop. Will have your almost exactly your set up: 2 GI275s, KFC150, and GTN650. Great demonstrations of GPSS emulation. I was wondering how the AP and GI275s were going to work together and the "buttonology" during transitions. And Go Navy!
You will really enjoy your new setup Brian! The advantage you will have with the GTN650 vs my 530W is that the 650 will automatically switch the CDI on the 275 from GPS to VLOC when doing an ILS and flying toward the FAF and within a “gate” around the final approach course prior to the FAF. I have to do that manually. Both units will automatically switch back to GPS on the CDI when you press the OBS button to clear SUSP after the MAP. There is a setting on the AUX pages (CDI/Alarms) where you set the GTN to autoswitch.
Go Navy!!
Another great presentation, nice job Chris!
Thanks again for sharing the details in a Mooney User kind of way... 😃
- a -
Thank you A C!
Nice GPSS depiction. The GI275 seem to be really nice units. But the 4 or 5 button pushes to switch GPSS on/off is a deal breaker. If someone is new to GPSS, it might not seem like a big deal. But after a few hundred hours with GPSS, and lots of IFR Approaches, the ability to turn GPSS on/off quickly, is essential.
Fully agree with the number of button pushes to toggle GPSS ON/OFF is a problem. Fortunately it is a software issue and from what my installer told me the next software update 2.30 has a solution to it.
It wasn't a deal breaker for me since I knew that there would be a large number of complaints and
Garmin would have a fix for it. Also a reason to make the video to increase number of comments about it and at the same time show how well it works.
I’ve got the ASPEN EFD1000 in my Ovation and the GPSS emulation is turned on and off on a button on the unit. So switching from GPSS to HDG is one button push which is very useful with ATC vectors.
Would be nice if Garmin changes how the GPSS emulation is toggled on/off. They have it on their list of changes.
There are definitely advantages and disadvantages to each manufacturer's various units.
One nice thing about the GI275 vs Aspen is that if you loose the airspeed (pitot ices up, breaks, cover left on) the rest of the unit keeps working: AI, ALT, HDG, etc. The Aspen gets all red X's. The GI275keeps everything else working. Try a brief takeoff and immediate landing on a looong runway with pitot cover on.
@@chriskoppel3940 That would explain why the Aspen STC requires keeping the ASI, VSI, TC and altimeter. If they weren’t there a blocked pitot would you leave the pilot instrument less, not good in IMC.
Hi Chris, thanks for those fantastic videos. I am thinking of getting rid of the vacuum system in my MSE and replacing the AI with the GI275. As a nav source I have already installed the GTN750xi. I am wondering if I also need to replace the HSI to get GPSS on my KFC-150? Also I am wondering how you get to steering in nav mode as I have nav info from the GTN750xi but I have to manually adjust the HSI to follow the correct power by the GTN. User error?
So, quite easily said, in GPSS the track is already computed by the GPS and will simply use the heading bug/mode to follow that track...including lead it as necessary. In NAV mode the autopilot has to reestablish a wind correction angle based on the new course and the need to resolve left/right deflections of the CDI.
That is correct.
Very informative video, thank you!
So glad it was helpful to you!
Hopefully Garmin is paying attention and will provide an update to make the GPSS selection easier.
From discussions with Garmin Aviation Support, the greatest complaint Garmin has re the GI 275 IS the deeply nested menu option for GPSS!! Supoosedly they have a fix for it in the upcoming software update. Should be coming out within a month according to my avionics shop.
@@chriskoppel3940 Version 2.32 is out and available at your installer. Check with them. It fixed the GPSS issues discussed. Specifically moving the GPSS softkey to the top of the menu and also providing the installer the ability to pull off a pin and place a switch on the panel that allows for easy selection between HDG and GPSS mode.
@@KenLince Fantastic!! Thank you for letting me know as well as everyone else reading this!!
That’s a great demo, you clearly put a lot of thought and work into that, it was very helpful, thanks, but I’m a little concerned about so many people flying around with go pro cameras blocking their view of other traffic while heads down under VFR, with no safety pilot looking outside... please be careful, the big sky little airplane theory has serious limitations. With respect...
Ahhh!! Good comment spikelanch. No worries, my eyeballs do go out to check for traffic and it's also good to have TIS-B for alerts. There are still a small number of planes without ADS-B out though.
Autopilot helps enormously to fly the plane and follow flight plan, relieving the pilot to monitor and check for traffic.
Hi Chris. I would like to thank you for your astonishing videos which I have found both enjoyable and informative. I am a co-owner of Robert Taylor who messaged you recently. We have a TB20 Trinidad with KFC150 + KAS297B + 2 x GNS430W's(with terrain) and we are looking to replace our King AI/FD plus HSI with 2 x GI275's - configured as #1=PFD and #2=HSI/Standby ADI.
We would like to get a GFC500 at the same time but not yet sure if our budget will stretch to that and our KFC150 is working fine.
So my questions are about the GI275's with a KFC150.
I understand that you do not have a KAS297B so may I ask if you just use pitch hold for your climbs and descents on the A/P? I realise that you will have lots of other vertical options with a GFC500!
Does the HSI map page on the GI275 import flightplan and waypoints from the GNS530W?
Does the HSI map page on the GI275 import coastlines, airspace and similar data from the GNS530W?
Does the HSI map page on the GI275 import terrain and obstacle data from the GNS530W?
Do you have HSI map topo on the GI275 and if so, where does the topo data come from?
I am trying to understand whether or not the GPS in the GI275 is needed for any of these items and whether or not the GI275 GPS antenna is required.
I don't think we would be interested in synthetic vision but do you have that or have you tried it?
Finally, I see that you have discarded your old ASI, VSI and altimeter. Does this mean that your lower GI275 is configured as a back-up ADI + ASI + VSI + altimeter?
Thank you once again.
Mervyn Porter
Hi Mervyn,
Thank you for your very supportive and kind comments!
You have lots of questions and will try to answer all of them.
1)..."ask if you just use pitch hold..." Yes, I used vertical pitch adjustments on the KFC150 for climbs and descents. What I did was to quickly set the pitch by using CWS on the yoke. While you depress it it disconnects the AP and allows you to hand fly and when you release it the KFC150 will set the flight director (FD) to the new pitch and revert back to the previous lateral mode (HDG, etc).
2) "...import flightplan and waypoints...?" Yes, it transfers the flight plan waypoints to the GI275's. The GI275's have their own navigation database that is separate from the 530W and needs to be updated independently. You can and should purchase a subscription that allows you to update all the Garmin devices in your panel.
3) "...HSI map page on the GI275 import coastlines...?" Nope, it has its own terrain, topo and obstacle database. This also answers your next question.
4) "...GPS in the GI275 is needed ...?" YES, you should definitely get the VFR GPS option since the AHRS likes to have speed to be able to keep its AI stable. You should connect it to the lower unit because if you lose the GNS430W and/or pitot tube you will still have a GPS source for speed even if it is ground speed. Checkout my video on Torture testing the GI275's.
5) Yes, I have synthetic vision and really like it. What is most useful is the Flight Path Indicator which helps in approaches by lining it up with the beginning of the runway. Great for additional situational awareness besides "flying the needles"
6) "... lower GI275 is configured as a back-up ADI...?" YES, it is an MFD/Standby ADI. The standby unit can either be an MFD/Standby ADI or an HSI/Standby ADI. There are some installers that erroneously believe that you can only have it as an HSI/Standby ADI. They are wrong. The STC has certain requirements for you to be able to remove the analog six-pack. Your dealer/installer should know them.
Hope that has answered all your questions.
@@chriskoppel3940 Hi Chris and thank you for your detailed and helpful reply. I think we are going to go for 2 x GI275's and a GFC500 autopilot in our 1990 TB20 Trinidad. The work is scheduled for August, to coincide with our annual check. I would be pleased to keep you posted on our progress as we move forward. Best regards, Mervyn
Chris, where does your KA297b get its Altitude data as it looks like you removed your encoding altimeter when you put in the GI 275s?
Alan Thomson
So to understand, your AP does not have a switch between GPSS and heading mode? You are controlling that through the 275? I have an stec 50 with GPss switch, so I can switch between heading bug and gpss data. Also, on my stec I can turn heading off and use wings level and use turn knob on AP to turn to next heading, then adjust heading bug or use knob to maneuver if going to be off course for a short bit. I agree, if the 275 is working the gpss and heading, those 4 or 5 button interaction are too much. Also, While hand flying practice is good, having to hand fly the turn to get new course and wings level seems cumbersome. Great video and your providing some of the best and earliest real world use of the 275!!! I am looking to upgrade my panel after getting my instrument ticket (written next weekend the to do some flying)... I am torn between the options and am really enjoying your reviews and comments.
Thank you for your comment Richard!
You deduce correctly: my KFC 150 autopilot does not have a native built in GPSS switch (or mode). For lateral modes I have HDG, NAV (takes its info from CDI deviations), APR and BC (back course) or wings level if none of those are selected.
The buttonology to enable/disable GPSS is definitely cumbersome and I will likely pick NAV mode enroute if I anticipate several HDG changes. Then I just go to HDG mode and control AP with the heading bug. I will use GPSS once cleared for an approach since I don't expect any heading changes thereafter and I will work it in my procedures to use on a missed approach. It will then fly the course to the hold and also fly the hold perfectly.
If your Stec 50 has GPSS switch you won't need to do any buttonology on the 275 to enable/disable it. I presume the GPS connection to the AP will still remain although you should check with the avionics shop and/or Garmin.
@@chriskoppel3940 Thanks for the response. I will explore the how it works when I get there. I just know with my current set up, non-275, I have a button on the panel I can press and immediately switch from HDG to GPSS mode. I have hit the button when HDG was not where I expected and AP started turning... Anyway, again, thanks for the 275 PIREP. I am really leaning towards them, as I can then ditch several of my older gauges and gain some cleaner more organized panel. I have the 1966 arrangement, where gaguges seemed to just randomly land on the panel as an, oh yeah, it might need a AI. Hey, lets add a DG over here... What, you want airspeed, how about bottom left just above altimeter in bottom bottom left..... VSI, right under yoke seems like a great place.....
I would think if you turn nav mode off on the autopilot and engage HDG mode that it would follow the heading bug on the HSI without having to go through the menus on the ADI and just leave it in GPS Steering. In other words GPSS is enabled in NAV mode on the autopilot but has nothing to do with it when you put the autopilot in HDG mode with NAV off.
Hi Jeff,
If you have an autopilot without native GPSS and you have the 275 on emulated GPSS (after buttonology to do so), then flying the autopilot on NAV mode will NOT use the precise GPSS course guidance that comes from the GPS. Instead it will look at the CDI deviations on the HSI and correct accordingly to keep it centered which is not as precise as GPSS. With the autopilot on HDG mode and the 275 in emulated GPSS then it will folllow the GPSS course guidance. You need to be in HDG mode on the AP in order to follow GPSS and not in NAV mode. With the 275 in GPSS mode and AP in HDG mode the HDG bug on the 275 has absolutely no effect on what the autopilot does. You can turn it 90 deg off course and it will completely ignore it. However, if you toggle back to HDG mode on the 275 with the buttonology I showed then the AP will definitely follow the HDG bug when in HDG mode. NAV mode will always correct for CDI deviations and not GPSS. Most of the time in calmer winds there may not be much difference between flying NAV vs GPSS while enroute.
Good morning, I have the same setup in my Saratoga. Have you been leaving the GI275 in GPSS mode and normally flying the plane like that? I do not like not being able to set the heading bug and toggle between the 2. I just learned about the GPSS mode so I am not used to the idea of putting the GPS in HDG but not sure if I like flying like this. Just wondering your thoughts? Great video.
Good morning David,
Thank you!!
I do not usually fly in GPSS mode enroute when on a relatively short flight due to the likely heading changes by ATC in that phase of flight and the buttonology required to toggle GPSS/HDG on the 275. I will fly in GPSS mode enroute on longer trips though. I will also use GPSS once cleared for an approach because it will fly the approach legs more accurately than NAV mode on the autopilot. I will select APR on the KFC 150 once the 530 changes from TERM to approach type available (LPV, etc) so that it will follow vertical guidance.
Garmin is coming out with a software upgrade this month where they address the deeply nested GPSS/HDG toggle and simplify it. Wonder what that will be?
@@chriskoppel3940 Great thank you. I'm interested in this update. Have a good weekend.
sorry if I missed it, but how come your lower 275 is the MFD version. i thought it needed to be a dedicated HSI when installed in the dual configuration. Thx!
Per the STC It has to be an ADAHRS unit that can be configured as HSI/Standby ADI or an MFD/Standy ADI. The HSI pages are just a subset of the MFD pages. I fly with either the HSI or HSI map page most of the time anyway but have the option of also displaying traffic weather, terrain or a Map page that can be panned besides zoomed in or out.
A bit cheaper to do HSI/Standby ADI.
When the primary ADI fails the bottom unit however it is configured will revert to its Standby ADI mode and stay on that page continuosly. It will not be able to display any other pages besides the Standby ADI page. You must also have a manual reversionary switch to force the bottom unit to go to ADI in case it did not do it automatically.
Hope that answered your question.
@@chriskoppel3940 thx. I guess I don't understand the benefit of the HSI/standby ADI config when the MFD/Standby ADI config comes with the HSI and is legal in a dual 275 IFR setup.
@@Wolficorntv There is really no advantage to HSI/Standby ADI over MFD/Standby ADI except for price.
Excellent video. I am very surprised at the deeply nested menus to switch between HDG & GPSS. Does the 275 not support an external switch?
I am not sure if it does. It should because the switch could select either heading input from the 275 or GPSS from the GNS or GTN and forward to autopilot. Unless.then275 processes the GPSS signal prior to sending to the autopilot.
The 275 already sready acts like a switch.
According to recent conversation with Garmin, the software upgrade coming out toward the end of April will have a fix to the deeply nested GPSS/HDG toggle issue along with some other improvements and fixes.
@Chris Koppel sounds good, was about to panic - we have an external switch on our classic panel now and it's very helpful. Your video made me really look forward to our new GI275 though. One question on altitude changes to confirm: you deselect ALT, then change the attitude with CWS pressed and release that again, so AP is in vertical attitude and HDG mode? There is still no Altitude Preselect for the KFC units, right?
@@michi795 Hi Michael,
Update to GI275 software has not come out yet. Have no date from Garmin. Hopefully soon. The update sill support an external switch and also put the GPSS toggle at the first menu level.
You are correct, for altitude changes deselect ALT on KFC 150 then depress CWS which will set the pitch for descent or climb and then release CWS. Autopilot will keep the pitch that was present when CWS was released. Lateral mode will be whatever is selected in the AP (HDG, NAV, APR). If no lateral mode is selected then it will keep wings level.
I understand that there is an external unit for the KFC’s that will enable altitude preselect. I do not have it. Not sure how it interacts with the GI275 though.
@@chriskoppel3940 Hi Chris, thanks a lot for the extensive reply. I’ll check regarding altitude preselect with the avionics guys, we have a KAP150 which is pretty much the same without Flight Director.
Now I’m in the last steps of my IR, training on a turbo arrow with the GFC 500… Talk about awakening desires that my bank account can’t fulfill ;-))
@@michi795 Welcome!
The bank account is always smaller than the avionics we desire to install!!! 😩
Hi Chris does the 275 allow you to capture an altitude? Or are you using the 275 to alert and then press Alt on the KFC150?
Hi Robert,
The KFC150 does not have altitude preselect option installed and therefore behaves the same as before installing the GI275 - I have to press the ALT hold mode on the KFC150 once I reach my target altitude. The advantage with the GI275 is that it will give a visual alert at 1,000 ft above or below the target altitude dialed on it and a visual and aural alert at 200 ft above or below the target altitude.
I am now replacing the KFC150 with a Garmin GFC500 and now will have Altitude preselect with capture as well as ability to climb or descend with a selected pitch, vertical speed or IAS. :) Also replacing the GNS530W with a GTN750 Xi which among other new features will also enable VNAV options.
Hope that answered your question.
@@chriskoppel3940 thank you for your reply and does answer my question. We do have a KAS-297B which will then continue to drive/preselect the KFC-150 but obviously wouldn’t be interoperable with the 275. We are also exploring to upgrade the KFC-150 to the GFC500 but not 100% yet.
Thank you for your videos, such great quality and source of information.
Do you have an email at all could contact you on to pick your brains going forward?
I would prefer not to give an email in a public forum like UA-cam. You can pick my brain anytime by making a comment in this thread. No issues that way.
BTW, since I did not have a KAS-297B in my plane prior to installing the GI275's I did not even research if they talk with each other. However, I am not sure why you still would not be able to use the 297B with the KFC150 in parallel with the 275. You would have to enter the altitude in both and the 275 would give you an aural alert while the 297B would hold the altitude. Just a thought. It is seamless with the 275 (or G3X or G5) and GFC500 combo.
The GPSS selection is so inconvenient as to warrant not purchasing the units. I go back and forth all the time, especially in B/C airspace where I get direct-to/on-course and turn left/right for traffic, vectors to final, whatever. Certainly there has to be some sort of external selector that can be devised to make this process simple.
They could have a simplified version of their GFC500 panel with the altitude/heading bug knobs + the steering modes that would be perfect. Flipping in and out of menus to setting alt bugs and steering modes is ridiculous.
According to my avionics shop as well as recent conversation w Garmin, the next software upgrade coming out toward the end of April will have a fix to the GPSS/HDG toggle issue in addition to other upgrades, fixes.
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I have been hoping for either a Garmin physical GPSS/HDG button or software release that could make the button appear on HSI for over a year now. I have the same setup in my Seneca with the exception of KFC 200. I cannot believe Garmin did not think this through. A lot of hassle switching and at times out right dangerous. Garmin FIX THIS PLEASE!
According to my avionics shop the upcoming software release 2.30 will have a fix. It should come out within a month or so.
They did fix it, However, My shop installed a dedicated rocker switch between GPSS and Heading Mode.
geez no way I would be able to tolerate all those touches to switch between hdg and gpss. im assuming if you have the gfc 500/600 its a non issue, but as far as older autopilots the way you demo'd it is borderline non functional in busy airspace.
True. I use it enroute only if I expect few heading changes if any at all. Otherwise I'll use NAV enroute. Find it more useful once cleared for the approach and to fly published missed approaches