Thank you so much for making this video! I've been thinking about this book a lot since finishing it. I have the Oxford World's Classics edition and the Introduction talks a lot about money as well as cultural expectations on women and marriage--I think the thing that stuck out to me the most about this book is how our heroines Rhoda and Mary were explicitly classist. They only wanted to help women within their own class. I know class is an ingrained part of British history, but as someone today who believes in education for all, it reminded me how social justice movements move forward in increments, and intersectionality always comes later! It was a very interesting book and I'm glad I read it! Thank you both for hosting!!!
Thanks Angelica - I'm so glad you found it interesting. The class stuff is fascinating and sort of shows the limited nature of feminism at this time. It's interesting because other Gissing books like The Nether World are really focused on the working classes, though I guess Gissing in that book does get angry with middle class people patronising/trying to help but not knowing how to help the very poor in London, so I wonder if that's part of it, too, an idea that if Rhoda and Mary tried to help working class women, they sort of couldn't do it genuinely because of the society they live in.
@@katiejlumsden Ooo, I want to read his depiction of the working class in The Nether World! I know that Gissing himself married two working class women and had a free union in France with another lady, and I imagine he had personal frustrations with the state of the working classes--which probably fluctuated throughout his life.
I loved this book and would have never read it if it wasn’t for this read-along. Thanks so much! I was satisfied with both endings. I’m older and I remember a friend if mine, her dad, left her for another women. Her mom couldn’t even get a department store credit card with a man’s co-sign! Now this was in 1978, so not all that long ago. I vowed I would never be dependent on a man for my livelihood, so I totally related to Rhoda. was fortunate to have a career where I could support myself but chose to get married. We both worked, and raised 2 sons together. Monica made so many poor choices along the way that felt her outcome was doomed from the start.
I was really happy that Rhoda and Everard didn't end up together. It'd rather be happily single than unhappily married. At the same time I did feel that tension of wanting her to end up with him. Shows how good Gissing's writing is!
Thank you both for hosting this readalong, it was a wonderful experience. I also kind of wanted for Rhoda and Everard to end up together, but I wasn't disappointed, their ending made sense to me. I was more upset about Monica's death, though it also makes perfect sense for this book.
I'd never heard of George Gissing before it was suggested for this readalong. It was an interesting read, a proto-feminist book published the year women won the vote in New Zealand (1893). Thanks for suggesting the read. As to the ending having read George Eliot's "The Mill on the Floss" and a few of Hardy's novels, I'm quite used to sad endings in Victorian novels with the death of a major character.
Thank you both for the readalong. This is my first Gissing and I will read more as soon as I recover from this one:) I appreciated the variety of women Gissing presented. The beginning showed the old Victorian set up which would have taken a different course in the novels of Dickens, Gaskell, or the Brontes. Regarding the ending, Monica lived on her emotions and wasn’t as smart or mature as some of the other women. Her roommate tried to caution her about Mr W, but she had already decided typing wasn’t for her. Her Mme Bovary-esque escape proved disastrous so when she said she would die I believed her. I liked both Everard and Rhoda, but they were so independent and proud and it would never have worked. Overall a remarkable book. Deb
Yes, I felt the same ! That Everard and Rhoda are attracted by each other, but pride is the third part of their triangle. I didn't feel like they really loved each other, it was a battle of wills. I was disappointed by Monica's death, but the thing that depressed me the most was the last line, Rhoda talking to the baby ! It made me laugh in a weird way because it was so gloomy ! And yes, I also agree, M. Widdowson is a product of his time, I felt him as lost when Monica shows she wants something that he didn't expect and he desperately wants her to fit into a mold. That book surprised me so much and I'm grateful for the readalong :)
I really enjoyed the book. It’s made me have even more appreciation for Anne Brontë being a female writer right at the start of the Victorian period and trying to introduce feminist themes. It is kind of sad that 50 years later, it was still such a novel and shocking idea that a woman could be independent. I think my next Gissing is going to be Eve’s ransom as I have that on my kindle. Have any of you read that one? It doesn’t seem a very long one xx
I thought it was sad Monica died, but I thought the reason was so that Alice and Virginia had to raise their game to bring up their niece. Virginia is going to dry out and they are going to open that school.
i really liked the ending, especially in terms of rhoda! i think your both definitely right that you're supposed to feel conflicted about them marrying - its especially bc if they lived in a free union for example, then they will get treated in a particular way, especially rhoda. free love was so contentious at the time! but it was nice that mary said she would stick by rhoda if she had entered into a free union with everard! (this sounds like i was happy to see monica die!! i wasnt it was just narratively clear that that was the only outcome that was likely so i was really prepared for it lol)
I love all of your videos, and this is my favorite bookish channel. I do have a question about The Odd Women - I listened to the audiobook, so this might be why I missed the significance of Miss Eade and Mr Bullivant. I first heard of Gissing when Harvey Pekar mentioned him in one of his comic books ( American Splendor) and read "New Grub Street" on that recommendation. At that time I didn't find a lot of Gissing available at bookshops and just wandered off into Dreiser novels. (this was decades ago) now back to The Odd Women --which I enjoyed and want to read in actual book form. but this thread I have lost -- obviously Miss Eade wanted a relationship with Bullivant, and she's still pining away at the end of the story? What did I miss? Please let me know your thoughts on Miss Eade. Thank you.
PS I found the book online, the scene where Miss Eade demands to know Monica's married name-- I'm guessing it's just one of those weird things where you run into someone and they have some odd idea because they are obsessed with someone ... anyway I can't help thinking that Gissing had more to say on Eade and Bullivant, but he cut it out or ...did he just leave it in as an example of Miss Eade having the wrong idea for a year while she pined away for Bullivant? -- an unimportant man who was never in her life.... just in her dreams? or ? It's just odd.
Just finished the book!!! And oh.my.god. So overwhelmed. Loved the Rhoda- Everard storyline. It was perfect. They neither of them seemed right for the other and the story seemed to need and demand Rhoda's (voluntary) independence. Their stubbornness and vanities are too strong to have made for a good marriage. The contest of wills would get even worse with time. It was the right choice. As for Monica's, it was saddening but felt appropriate. She and her husband were both to be blamed for the mess. Although, the husband was more at fault by far, she was not blameless either. He was scary, but not entirely unsympathetic. His psychology and convictions were delved into very well. All in all, i loved the book so so much, that i can't wait to read the next one!
It is interesting to see the contrast between early and late Victorian novels - particularly with the presentation of women.
Agreed!
Thank you so much for making this video! I've been thinking about this book a lot since finishing it. I have the Oxford World's Classics edition and the Introduction talks a lot about money as well as cultural expectations on women and marriage--I think the thing that stuck out to me the most about this book is how our heroines Rhoda and Mary were explicitly classist. They only wanted to help women within their own class. I know class is an ingrained part of British history, but as someone today who believes in education for all, it reminded me how social justice movements move forward in increments, and intersectionality always comes later! It was a very interesting book and I'm glad I read it! Thank you both for hosting!!!
Thanks Angelica - I'm so glad you found it interesting. The class stuff is fascinating and sort of shows the limited nature of feminism at this time. It's interesting because other Gissing books like The Nether World are really focused on the working classes, though I guess Gissing in that book does get angry with middle class people patronising/trying to help but not knowing how to help the very poor in London, so I wonder if that's part of it, too, an idea that if Rhoda and Mary tried to help working class women, they sort of couldn't do it genuinely because of the society they live in.
@@katiejlumsden Ooo, I want to read his depiction of the working class in The Nether World! I know that Gissing himself married two working class women and had a free union in France with another lady, and I imagine he had personal frustrations with the state of the working classes--which probably fluctuated throughout his life.
I loved this book and would have never read it if it wasn’t for this read-along. Thanks so much!
I was satisfied with both endings. I’m older and I remember a friend if mine, her dad, left her for another women. Her mom couldn’t even get a department store credit card with a man’s co-sign! Now this was in 1978, so not all that long ago. I vowed I would never be dependent on a man for my livelihood, so I totally related to Rhoda. was fortunate to have a career where I could support myself but chose to get married. We both worked, and raised 2 sons together. Monica made so many poor choices along the way that felt her outcome was doomed from the start.
Thanks - glad you enjoyed the novel! Rhoda is a great character.
I was really happy that Rhoda and Everard didn't end up together. It'd rather be happily single than unhappily married. At the same time I did feel that tension of wanting her to end up with him. Shows how good Gissing's writing is!
Agreed! But they are such fascinating characters.
I so enjoyed THE ODD WOMEN....and this discussion. Please make your next selection for a readalong. Soon!
Thanks!
Thank you both for hosting this readalong, it was a wonderful experience.
I also kind of wanted for Rhoda and Everard to end up together, but I wasn't disappointed, their ending made sense to me. I was more upset about Monica's death, though it also makes perfect sense for this book.
Thanks - glad you enjoyed it :)
I'd never heard of George Gissing before it was suggested for this readalong. It was an interesting read, a proto-feminist book published the year women won the vote in New Zealand (1893). Thanks for suggesting the read. As to the ending having read George Eliot's "The Mill on the Floss" and a few of Hardy's novels, I'm quite used to sad endings in Victorian novels with the death of a major character.
Thanks - it is a very interesting novel. Gissing often reminds me of Hardy :)
I really enjoyed reading this book. I’ll have to try more by Gissing soon.
Thank you both for hosting!
Thanks :)
Wonderful discussion!
Thank you both for the readalong. This is my first Gissing and I will read more as soon as I recover from this one:) I appreciated the variety of women Gissing presented. The beginning showed the old Victorian set up which would have taken a different course in the novels of Dickens, Gaskell, or the Brontes. Regarding the ending, Monica lived on her emotions and wasn’t as smart or mature as some of the other women. Her roommate tried to caution her about Mr W, but she had already decided typing wasn’t for her. Her Mme Bovary-esque escape proved disastrous so when she said she would die I believed her. I liked both Everard and Rhoda, but they were so independent and proud and it would never have worked. Overall a remarkable book. Deb
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it - it's such an interesting novel.
Yes, I felt the same ! That Everard and Rhoda are attracted by each other, but pride is the third part of their triangle. I didn't feel like they really loved each other, it was a battle of wills. I was disappointed by Monica's death, but the thing that depressed me the most was the last line, Rhoda talking to the baby ! It made me laugh in a weird way because it was so gloomy ! And yes, I also agree, M. Widdowson is a product of his time, I felt him as lost when Monica shows she wants something that he didn't expect and he desperately wants her to fit into a mold. That book surprised me so much and I'm grateful for the readalong :)
Agreed! It's such an interesting book.
I really enjoyed the book. It’s made me have even more appreciation for Anne Brontë being a female writer right at the start of the Victorian period and trying to introduce feminist themes. It is kind of sad that 50 years later, it was still such a novel and shocking idea that a woman could be independent. I think my next Gissing is going to be Eve’s ransom as I have that on my kindle. Have any of you read that one? It doesn’t seem a very long one xx
Agreed! It's so interesting. I haven't read Eve's Ransom but sounds like I should.
This was just so good, I thank you for suggesting it.
Thanks, so glad you enjoyed it!
I thought it was sad Monica died, but I thought the reason was so that Alice and Virginia had to raise their game to bring up their niece. Virginia is going to dry out and they are going to open that school.
I do think that's part of it - especially because the novel starts with Alice and Virginia and it's nice they get good closure.
i really liked the ending, especially in terms of rhoda! i think your both definitely right that you're supposed to feel conflicted about them marrying - its especially bc if they lived in a free union for example, then they will get treated in a particular way, especially rhoda. free love was so contentious at the time! but it was nice that mary said she would stick by rhoda if she had entered into a free union with everard! (this sounds like i was happy to see monica die!! i wasnt it was just narratively clear that that was the only outcome that was likely so i was really prepared for it lol)
Rhoda is such a great character, and I do find the ending really complex and interesting!
Love your vidio!
I love all of your videos, and this is my favorite bookish channel. I do have a question about The Odd Women - I listened to the audiobook, so this might be why I missed the significance of Miss Eade and Mr Bullivant.
I first heard of Gissing when Harvey Pekar mentioned him in one of his comic books ( American Splendor) and read "New Grub Street" on that recommendation. At that time I didn't find a lot of Gissing available at bookshops and just wandered off into Dreiser novels. (this was decades ago)
now back to The Odd Women --which I enjoyed and want to read in actual book form.
but this thread I have lost -- obviously Miss Eade wanted a relationship with Bullivant, and she's still pining away at the end of the story? What did I miss? Please let me know your thoughts on Miss Eade. Thank you.
PS I found the book online, the scene where Miss Eade demands to know Monica's married name-- I'm guessing it's just one of those weird things where you run into someone and they have some odd idea because they are obsessed with someone ... anyway I can't help thinking that Gissing had more to say on Eade and Bullivant, but he cut it out or ...did he just leave it in as an example of Miss Eade having the wrong idea for a year while she pined away for Bullivant? -- an unimportant man who was never in her life.... just in her dreams? or ? It's just odd.
Just finished the book!!! And oh.my.god. So overwhelmed.
Loved the Rhoda- Everard storyline. It was perfect. They neither of them seemed right for the other and the story seemed to need and demand Rhoda's (voluntary) independence. Their stubbornness and vanities are too strong to have made for a good marriage. The contest of wills would get even worse with time. It was the right choice.
As for Monica's, it was saddening but felt appropriate. She and her husband were both to be blamed for the mess. Although, the husband was more at fault by far, she was not blameless either. He was scary, but not entirely unsympathetic. His psychology and convictions were delved into very well.
All in all, i loved the book so so much, that i can't wait to read the next one!
Yay, so glad you liked it! He's an amazing author - I highly recommend his work.