Ukraine: The F-16s Are NOT Arriving.
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- Why are the Ukrainian F-16s taking so long? Is it a training problem?
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In the Korean War, there were Soviet pilots dressed as N.Korean / Chinese ones to fight the US. This is a well documented history. There were also Chinese/Soviet pilots in the Vietnam war. So there isn’t any surprise that F16s coming into Ukraine would packed with pilot inside.
Soviet pilots were sent by none other than Soviet government. It was simply denied by Soviets at the time.
Russian already know this. It's impossible to train a pilot even with 2 year period.
Nice explanation of the pilot training requirements. It takes years. Then there are the maintenance technicians. Then the logistics network, a huge undertaking. Etc.
Excellent point about the ground crews!!!! I work in civilian aviation. Without them, a pilot is a dead meat within weeks.
@@hldvoyeur4709 I worked with techs and tech training. They are trades and you can train a basic apprentice in about a year, but it takes years of experience and further training for crew chiefs or specialists like non destructive testing, etc. You can’t field a fighter quickly or cheaply.
The maintenance crews and the training have been completed. Ukraine has built many maintenance facilities for the F16. There is no law against Ukraine sending their F16's to another Country for repairs. Armchair pilots do not understand logistics. The support is in place before the Jets arrive. Other Countries have agreements with Ukraine for the support. A good friend of mine is in Ukraine with many former military personnel hired by a private Company to supply maintenance technicians.
@@darknesstrembles3773 Interesting, so some serious thought has gone into this. Third line out of country. I guess we will have to see how effective those F16 and crew will be.
@@darknesstrembles3773 This is just so insane. Consider a small local airport - they are obvious to even the most remedial observation technology. And the service and maintenance, plus logistics and control MUST be near the planes - it can not be hidden away.
You are just utterly full of crap.
logistics also requires significant training.
no they don't. they require resources and infrastructures which neither ukraine has. not much training is needed.
@@riskinhosand it's not like the enemy would let them have them😂😂. You can't just set up logistics and infrastructure during a war, they can and will be easily targeted
@@Jykobe491 explain how ukraine is still flying their aircraft and the ones donated by other countries more than 2 years after the war started. if what you were saying was true there would be no flying. and not only they are flying they are increasing the number of flights.
@@riskinhos and where have you seen these Ukrainian aircraft flights? In your dream? Russians are destroying Ukrainian jet fighters before they can take off the ground, also how can Ukraine be flying when they don't have significant airpower to challenge Russia? Make it make sense
In Finland recruited do maint F-18 after 8 weeks of training. F-16 is easier
Thanks signiore. One "technical" suggestion :
When using long written text phrases between spoken narrative please try to give them some more seconds on screen. It's annoying to stop, getback and restart just to be able to read and comprehend those text portions. We have not F35 pilots abilities and we are getting awfully old😊.
As for the main argument of this video I think that it has the same weight as logistics deficiencies....
Thanks one more time for your impartial and technical view. Much more useful than wishful thinking and "hooliganism" infighting these days.
Don't worry. the F-35's will never get as old, as we feel.
@@Gunni1972 not worried about F35 getting old. I won't be around here when this happens bro...
What is to stop the Russians from destroying the F16s on the ground?
I suspect that this is a key reason why the F16s have not been delivered to Ukraine.
absolutely nothing, and that's the reason why they won't make so much as a scratch in the overall picture
Ukraine has had dozens of Soviet era aircraft that Russia could strike but only a few were hit. Strikes on the aircraft on the ground is more difficult than it may seem for Russia.
They're already hitting bases prior to their arrival
@@stupidburp Not hard at all... Russia has destroyed and damaged several su-27s and a su-25 in the last week on the ground...
The same thing that prevented them from destroying the ukrainian air force in 2+ years of war.
At this moment there are no Ukrainian pilots training in Romania. On June 10, the Ministry of National Defense published a draft financing this initiative, so the first pilots will start training in Romania only towards the end of the year or most probably in 2025.
That's what they said in mid 2023. right? By the end of the year....maybe...
Officially 😂😂
Who needs this idiots to train in Romania?
idk. man... I've heard some very loud jet noises over my building in the past two weeks or so. & I live in RO. not gonna say where, but it's close to an air base city. could be our guys, but I've lived here since forever & only in the last year air patrols, choppers and other freaky noises in the night have started becoming more frequent.
The war will be over by then.
When it comes to F16s operating in Ukraine, Otis will sweep the floor.
No, it won't.
What is Otis?
@@maninalift The Roomba in the videos
@@subjectc7505 it will, it's what it do.
while doing that, he'll find "Kilroy was here" inscriptions ...
Rare instance of appropriately used AI images 😂
In here pilot training takes 6 years and training continues after that all the career. F-16 cant operate from road bases and needs a clean long airfield to take off and land because engine intake is below the hull. Those would be operational in 2030 and their hulls are so worn up by then that they are more risk of the pilot than enemy. Every pilot can fly those, but learning how to use that as an effective weapon platform is whole different thing.
Where is "In here"? This is the Internet so please be mindful just a tad bit.
F-16's can operate from a road. They've tried it. The USAF doesn't use it because they don't need to as they operate out of well defended air bases
I’m sure there’s plenty of Ukrainian pilots that have more than 6 years of training , they just need to learn to operate an f 16 and it won’t take as long
@TKUA11 part of the issue is that the American instructors have not trained fast jet pilot to fight a war while the war is going on. And frankly no EU country has with the exception of Russia and the UK and that was back in WW2. The Last American pilots who trained under a wartime tempo graduated back in 1973 and retired 20 years ago. If you compare the scenario that the host mentioned. A rather well known aerial photographer/cameraman went on his 1st F-4 cruise and logged 1,000 hours and over 700 traps, then went to Top Gun and back to the fleet as an instructor in 2 years. Did another cruise went back to Top Gun as an instructor.
The US trainers need to do their training at that pace. 3 flights a day, 5 days a week. 60/month or 1 year's flight and training time in 3 month, none of this it takes years bs
@@pogo1140 Copium and BS, All of that means nothing, these shit cans won't fly in Ukro404 - they won't have a chance.
The humorous AI images are great
denys davydov has been waiting for F 16 for 2 years. 🥺😢😭😭
So? He's a silly propagandist who spouts lies and has been wrong on everything. He is not a serious analyst and his commentary is worthless.
I’m as pro-Ukrainian as it gets, but Denys knows nothing about military or geopolitical issues. All he does is read headlines and point toward changes on the map. Being a commercial pilot doesn’t mean you know the first thing about air domain related issues.
whatever ball licker!
@@The_ZeroLine You tell me he only profits from war and is not really a Ukrainian patriot but just a well-paid troll. that can't be 😦😧😳
Denys career is now a Ukrainian UA-camr reporting on how the Russians are destroying his country. He could have volunteered as an F-16 pilot which Ukraine needs.
Kennedy had a story he heard of a French General chatting with his Gardener. The general requested that some fruit trees be planted, and the Gardener tarried. Asked why, the gardener explained- "sir, it will be thirty years before they flower!" The General admonished him- "Thirty Years? Then plant them today! There's no time to lose!"
I read that the NATO requirement for F-16 training is a minimum of 140 hrs flying time per year. Israeli pilots are supposedly training at over 200 hrs flying time per year. Your analysis of reducing pilot mission scope seems credible since the training time is too short. Mercenary/NATO ground crew and pilots would be on the ground once the F-16 is operational but mercenary/NATO pilots would not be flying over Russian held territory. Captured NATO pilots would be a PR disaster.
They are going nowhere near the front. Unless they want it written off. Not going to win then the war. Big waste of resources. Look at the operating costs and the price of the rockets. All of adds is a higly mobile launch platform. It is a reasonable dogfighter, but these days in this context one fires from afar. It can not outrum with its single engine. So even if they get into Russia, they will likely not come out. Only ones winning is mid and those on their payroll. Losers are the taxpayers and above all the boys getting hurt, dying and their loved ones. Zelesky and the sellouts to run with their bloodmoney enjoying the good life. It disgusts me. People fighting bananawars, being fooled once again that it is theirs.
Yet, they did this in WWII. Many pilots in the U.S. and other countries volunteered to fly for the allies, before they even joined the war. NOt sure why this can't happen again.
@@GeorgeLermaYou don’t have the threat of people launching WMDs at each other. Also, when you’re looking at retirees or separatees, there are better paying opportunities than repeating the same old stuff all over again.
@@GeorgeLerma Perhaps there are no volunteers.
If someone goes as a volunteer and is in the Ukrainian military that’s there call. Will the country they are from go to extreme efforts stop them once there? I don’t know.
As long as the runways are kept well cratered and well fodded, they will not arrive
They could send F35s; no need for a runway and most Ukrainian pilots won't be coming home anyway 💀
@@josue_kay Typical liberal male feminist who things the right wonder weapon will win the war. Not so!!! It needs a short runway to take off with any kind of load and special heat resistant pads to vertically land on! Plus, VSTOL = No range and small load
Runways are pretty easy to patch up. Hangers less so, but they could build hardened hangers, or use inflatable tents - you put up tents at all plane parking points so that the targeting cannot see which tents the planes are in, so it is difficult to know which tent to target.
@@shuathe2ndbut Russian intelligence is like something that's never been seen before, It won't work out well
But that would mean fewer missiles for apartment buildings, power plants, and hardware stores . . . if there are any of those left.
It really is a problem related to them not expecting Ukraine to be in this position, no ahead planning from a war that is not theirs
Correct, this war is purely a Russian expansion project, they can stop this any time. Just honour international law and borders.
Speak English please
@@TKUA11 understand english please
@@gerfand I can’t, this grammar is not English. Improper English
@@TKUA11 yet you are able to awnser no problem
Dont get me wrong but has it been already 1.5 year delay they promised them back in September 2023!!!!!!!!!!
It was a joke from the start
You can't employ f16s without the whole infrastructure needed. And that would mean a first hand role of Nato and usa in the war. A war declaration between nuclear powers. That's just not going to happen any soon.
Wrong
rubbish talk .. how could they promise something that had no training done for ... ...
Yeah, training should have started in May 2022. Of course it wasn't a good moment to do so - start training people - but when would planes arrive, then deliveries would start but there are no people trained. Trained people and planes were a chicken and the egg problem.
@colinobrien3806 if you come here prepare to get fake news. This gut knows nothing
Thank you, Millennium7.
Online commentators have remind Ukraine since long time ago to establish the F16 infrastructures and supply chain management. The pilots is a bigger issue to overcome since human factor is always the bottleneck.
Yet the "requirements" outlined in this video are not the requirements needed to continue operating at the current level, but the requirements to excel.
First and foremost, Ukraine simply needs new aircraft to continue operating and to start fighting back against the current glide bomb attacks. That requires far less than what was listed here.
As said at 9:15, the first step will be a reduced mission set.
If the Ukrainian pilots achieve all of the qualifications - which can occur much faster than the outlined "better part of a decade" under the selective pressure of actual combat - in significant numbers, then they will be far more effective than anything Russia or Ukraine have fielded so far.
in my opinion if that logistic infrastructure is or not make no different. I believe F16 would have same life like Abrams or Leopard but maybe still shorter. F16 is built for making money and not for brutal war - what more its capability to carry nuclear weapons makes another escalation.
each weapons used in war is kind of advertising for future sell - I don't believe F16 can make improve its value in potential use on Ukraine - opposite can lost reputation and in that way military complex can loose significantly.
Just listen to Justin Bronk on the topic he knows what he's talking about
@@lubub9088 No. As this is not a battlefield that ALLOWS simple missions. The bloody RADAR evasion is the MAIN problem, And if you have to change attack angles mid-approach, you are setting yourself up for gangbangs. The situational awareness is basically asking for a two-crew plane. where one flies, and the other guy is checking search and track signals, and directions, attacks could come from. Otherwise the Jamming, Radar evasion, and missile evasion will be enough to overwhelm any "Pilot newb" sorry guys. That's nothing against you.
what should have been done is something like the American Volunteer Group in china in the 1930's. yes, the Flying Tigers. take ground personnel that already know their jobs. mechanics, ramp personnel, everything. gather the tools needed. then take pilots that already know how to fly the aircraft..
take the whole group...as a unit...and have them enlist in the Ukrainian military, with the caveat that they are a self-contained unit.
this gives you all the training needed, in short order, and puts a fully functioning squadron in the field in short order.
it worked in china in the 1930's under similar conditions.
Good idea. I think what may be holding this back is western politicians must get approval from Putler first. (strong sarcasm)
Who signs up as a volunteer?
You are in a dream world, keep smoking.
@@jeffrey7cp992 El ladron juzga por su condicion.
@@josesantana-tm1hx Special people that have existed throughout history.
Shame..dont people know you need pilots plus logistics to bring it into service.
No, they don't. As a generality, people don't have much of a clue how logistics work. They just think in terms of buzzword = magic wand, deliver it now.
Unfortunately not a lot of people want to take some time to understand how war works, I can’t blame them though if you got a job and a family then you can’t put in that time into research.
Lol, people didn't make the decision, military general's did. Question would be why did they promise F-16's in the first place, why waste resources if they knew? My guess is they are used to fighting war where opposition doesn't have the capability to strike them and so as a result they became delusional.
Actually you need aircraft in fit enough condition to be used for training to start with. This has been the issue as most donated aircraft were in very poor condition and in need of a lot of stripping down airframe inspection then rebuilding.
Add in that 21 of the 48 to come from the Netherlands were on sold to Argentina before delivery after being refurbished. The USA will further upgrade them and providing pilot training as part of the deal.
They had a whole 2 years to get that ready... If they don't get it ready now ukraine should just give up
Well they’re on the way to Ukraine 3 days after this vid came out.
yeah right, because mainstream media tells the truth. Jesus Christ, are u that dumb?
I drove past RAF Lakenheath the other day and could see lots of F16 fighters parked in the open over the fence.
That would surprise me because the RAF doesn't operate any F-16s and therefore has no capability to train F-16 pilots.
@@passantNLua-cam.com/video/NcnO3lOXNxg/v-deo.htmlsi=D6C0pomeMnnp2LbM
@@passantNLit’s a U.S. base
@@Statueshop297 It's an RAF base that the USAF use with permission
@@passantNL The RAF may or may not, but the USAF and other NATO forces do.
I am again and again impressed with your endless knowledge! You must eat breathe and sleep flying and airplanes all your life to achieve such proviciency! Respect!
Training a Ukrainian pilot on the F-16:
"- Neutral Turkey is to the south. Beyond that big blue stuff. And the eject button is there."
By the time they arrive they’ll probably be suffering from corrosion issues 😅
Like Orc rifles eh.
@@Paulius-lb4ng coping ukie shill trying to project, how cute.
@@neisvestno2444 все нормально, для нас комплимент когда нас называют Орками. Орки это огромные мощные изобретательные парни. Быть орком это круто
Ukrainian forces have outperformed expectations since the onset of the 2 week limited military operation. Not a total solution but the Russians are undoubtedly writing their pants waiting for all the missiles that F16s can fire to arrive.
You mean the Ukrainian pilots 😂
The training issue makes much more sense. A Top Gun graduate of my acquaintance suggested the same thing.
It seems to me that training the maintenance techs is more the main problem. That, and getting the spare parts to repair components which have failed, of course.
@@geoffas There's also the fact that the F-16 can only operate from perfectly kept runways. Any FOD on the runway at all and it can't take off and looking at where the F-16's engine intake is you can see why. So basically all the Russians have to do is foul Ukraine's runways any way they can and they render them useless. And if they operate from outside Ukraine say in Poland or Romania then i'd expect an RS-28 Sarmat to take care of that fairly quickly.
training is the biggest problem (i agree with you) but logistic for these aircrafts require a substantial amount of training as well so really the "human factor" is a decisive issue but in both cases for the pilots and for logistics and maintenance as well.. (just my two cents)
@remotabanelli4583
It's easier to find willing volunteers and also "hide" Westren logistics personnel on the ground that it is to get Westren pilots to preform an active combat role in the F-16's themselves probably so I don't think the logistics personnel is the issue here.
@@hollowgonzalo4329 yeah it's so easy that no one have seen an f16 flying in ukraine.. ask yourself why..
Well, the logistics concerns for Su-24, Su-25 and Su-27 are higher than F-16. There's also substantially less spare parts for those. Ukraine would have an easier time keeping their F-16s running than even Russia does their Su-35s. Even easier if they were F-35s, but that's a fantasy.
@@ArchOfficial wishful thinking
@@remotabanelli4583 This is a real-world verifiable fact, considering that currently in the real world there are countries operating F-16, MiG-29, Su-27, Su-35 etc.
I agree with pretty much everything you said... There is one exception though. Training times from the past can be significantly accelerated by using training simulators extensively. That will cut down restrictions in terms of fuel, and maintenance that affect hands on training. You can now also do force on force and large scale training, which was something only a few countries could afford to do a few years back.
While it doesn't have the tactile feel of flying the aircraft, it can create viable muscle memory in regards to tactics, as well as aircraft systems, radar, and weapons operations. You can compress knowledge effectively as well as put to the test for both, pilots and commanders. And you can do a fair simulation of the actual terrain they will fight over too.
The only thing that will make a fighter better at fighting, is to actually fight. In a sim you can do endless permutations until the automatic responses are there. Rather than having a few hours a week of hands of training, they can pack the equivalent of a week of exercises in one or two days.
Millenium7, I thank you for sharing your knowledge, as always. I completely agree to your analysis. I guess the thinking behind requesting F-16 was the large numbers this type has been produced , almost 5000 units. The F-16 was designed based on the US Vietnam experience as a front line fighter. This includes the assumption of having safe airbases and a complex logistics environment. Clearly, the Gripen are much better suited - the Swedish know what they are doing. But production capacity and training timelines are a large burden. No wonder, that CZ and HU have chosen for Gripen - in East Europe, only PL has the capability to fly F-16 long term, and their use case is clearly based on long range strikes faraway from home bases - explaining why all PL F-16 have the new design with additional fuel tanks. In reality, Ukraine is much better of with a large number of Patriot PAC-2 missiles and ballistic missiles for long range strikes, and due to politics, they'll have to build their own.
But..Indian Air Force also Trained in America For ADVANCE JET TRAINING when they have no aircraft For training sub sonic to supersonic ...but Indian Air force always use Mostly Russian Jets ..
Didn't the Indians manage to shoot down f16s with ancient mig 21s during joint training?
@@MikeisaGoob Indians managed nothing. Su-30 is garbage just like all Russian airplanes
Good analysis, right on the mark
!
Its the tactics and language level needed.Its the use of the software integration, flying is easy... But flying @ 7 G's and selecting the correct weapon from the list while evading a sam requires a great level of language and command of all the systems.
You'd only ever have one, max two sets of AAMs loaded, and one, max two, types of AGMs loaded. Realistically only AMRAAM and some kind of ARM, AGM or GBU/CBU.
So if they can press the A/A button or the A/G button on the ICP and maybe the missile step, they're good to go for the most part. It's not that difficult. Harder is things like HOTAS flows while processing lots of info and doing many functions in succession. Most missions won't require something like that and are straightforward.
@@ArchOfficial I stand corrected... Thank you! Too much BS floating and as a non-pilot I can only go with what I'm told.
@@stever2583 What you're told is almost always false. Non-pilot here too, but I can read a manual and watch a video.
My understanding from listening to interviews with various instructors was that UA was facing a double edged sword with this training, and neither side was good. The older, more experienced fighter pilots had a tendency to revert to the Soviet methods of relying on ground control when the workload became 'too great.' The younger ones got it, but as you say, they need several years of practice before gaining full proficiency. At the end of the day, I expect to see a lot of volunteers, both on the ground and in the cockpits moving forward.
Always thought this would be a problem. I’m sure some Ukrainian pilots will adjust quicker than others but what about doctrine? Western doctrine is about mission command- totally unlike the Soviet rigid structures that Ukrainian pilots have inherited.
However - the Ukrainians have demonstrated a desire to embrace new concepts and ideas so…
Every time the ''embraced'' these new concepts they died, and dont think that they dont realize that at ground level. The last year ''summer offensive'' was a biggest mistake than clinging to Bahmut for PR reasons.
Ukraine's pilots have been superior to most NATO pilots for years. There's not any soviet doctrine in there.
Ive been telling people this for 6 months... Constantly told i was wrong... 😂
It is easier to teach a "retired" Western / NATO pilot to speak Ukrainian than it is to train up a Ukrainian pilot to fly an F-16...
@@scroopynooperz9051 no it’s not
And you are still wrong.
Don't worry, they will stop talking about it once you are right, and start telling you you are wrong about something else.
@@Annou7la 😂. No sir, I am not.
Flying the jet, and effectively employing the weapons system are two entirely different things. In something as advanced as the F16 this will take years.
Thank you for another very informative video.
Thankyou for this video. It is very very interesting. I usually look at logistics forgetting what it takes in terms of training to achieve this.
I must have missed the part that explains the title. Or was it SUPPOSED to be clickbait?
Unfortunately clickbait is required often to get your video into feeds. Sad state but that’s what it is.
I know whatever this channel puts up will be researched and he will state when it’s his opinion.
@@Statueshop297 Explain that to Perun or any of the other youtubers who don't use clickbait titles.
@@iivin4233 The guy has 500k subs though, that's a little different.
Sub and like earned (been following for a while and thanks!).
Hello from the great white north (CA) 🍁!
I know nothing of flying other than in my dad’s Piper, Cherokee 6, and Cessna 195 as a kid. However the comment “the f - 35 is like flying a piano” is reminiscent of the degree of automatic systems integrated into the total picture of fantastic powers having to be controlled, powers that are beyond human comprehension all at once and at such speeds, let alone competing with a very worthy adversary. The embarrassment throughout western weapons systems fault lines in actuality would again receive special attention from these adversaries including their high value pilots. There’re only so many sabres one can rattle and the Ukraine has been being done on a disgusting level of disrespect all around.
I think the "Disgusting level of Disrespect" came from Ukraine to it's own residents. On Crimea, AND the Donbass. (Not to mention the "Moderate Right wing Extremists").
it really puts in perspective the skills and budget gap in different countries. running F16s is trivial to some countries.
swedish airforce is nowhere what you describe and it will be proved in the future.
Even if 30 of them arrive all at once it won’t change anything.
Even 300 wouldn't make a difference. Even IF they flew from romanian and polish air fields and the russians didn't blow the shit out of these bases (they would, make no mistake) and they were flown by epxerienced western pilots, they still wouldn't change the tide. In fact, many would be killed by russian air defenses and fighters and while they would probably also cause damage to russian forces on the ground and in the air....let's not forget one crucial thing:
Western pilots have NO experience against fighting against a capable enemy with potent air defense and air force...whereas the russians have been gaining this experience for 2.5 years now. What's even more important, both russian and ukranian pilots have learned what it is like to suffer serious losses....they can cope with it mentally. Western pilots never had to do that....all they have ever known is complete air supremacy and total control over the air space. The experience will shock the shit out of them.
@@KondorDCS Well, 300 is such a sheer number that they really would make some difference - until they were mostly destroyed. They surely could halt Russia for quite some time and even push it back some. But as we know, even 30 planes are hard to get going, so 300 would probably take 5+ years and of course cost massively.
At the current rate, they would deplete the Russian Iskander Stockpile by about 15?
@@KondorDCS you are about ignorant!
@@KondorDCS with 300 the F-16's would not only have air supremecy over Ukraine, but inside of Russian border for a good 250 + miles.
A you tuber demoed on how a single ratchet tool can allow a single ground crew to load stores on a Gripen.
German Air Force had a nice master piece of role model in converting former MiG- and SU-pilots to Phantom- and Tornado-pilots and have them to operate in western airspace, with NATO ROEs, tactics and phraseology. The selection process was painful for all the hundreds of candidates, most of them failed in adopting required language proficiency in the first place (required to read and understand aircraft and regulations documentation).
The 'survivors' of this first round (somewhere around 10% or so) made it to flight training, that turned out to be for most of them the ultimate catastrophy, as it required to completely re-calibrate a pilots brain. At the very end, only a handful made it into western aircraft, some gave up because of constant overload, a few crashed, and only some 5 to 10 were able to cope with the challenges in the long run.
This happened during peace time, time was not that much of essence, but it demonstrated, how difficult it is to switch from one eco-system to another. To do this in war time is a challenge of its own, since the air power is urgently needed, but all of its elements are far from being ready for getting unleashed.
I switched 3 times the aircraft type during my career, but I did this in the eco-system I was educated in and I changed my role only once, but this was always challenging enough...
You are avoiding to tell us that the instructors would have been USA/NATO personel. Not anything Ukraine would have to develop.
Shh, they won't risk US personnel. They tried that in Iraq. Then the Opiate crisis at home took care of that.
How many instructors do you think are willing to get over there?
PAC-3, Leopard2A6, Abrams, HIMAS....
F-16 is the last thing still can remain tital of "Never defeat"
Moskva is the best submarine anyway
@@Myanmartiger921 If this is the only success of Ukraine that you keep referring to, it already sounds pathetic and miserable.
@@pictographRussian future is doomed if it losses how can you lose more than that
@@pictographI thinkYou'll find, around a Third of The Black Sea Fleet, including it's Headquarters, are also examples. As well as S400s and Possibly even the Super S500 and Countless Radars. If You want more Examples I could go on all day. Oh and the Fact that all of this was to a Country who don't even barely have a Navy is also Pathetic, Miserable and a little bit Embarrassing!!!!! Slava Ukraini!!!!!
Oh please stop spreading fake news. S-500s was never destroyed@danieldoherty1029
TIL there is a 2-seat variant of the F-16. I was thinking the photo of the 2-seat version was a really good AI image, so I googled it and learned it's an F-16B.
The whole subject of F-16s for Ukraine is a red herring. Firstly, Ukraine doesn't have F-16-ready runways and given all its runways are exposed to strikes they will hardly ever have any. Then of course you need technicians and pilots and years of training. But also - Ukraine had some 50-70 SU-27s that were arguably on par with the F-16 for the type of mission. Also - their pilots flew those SU-27 like pros... So the number of F-16s sent there will at best compensate for lost SU-27s.
Bottom line is - those who expect massive changes to the war due to F-16s should curb their enthusiasm
You cannot escalate a defense, you can only defend harder.
Tell that to Putler!
No problem is too big for us, WE ARE UKRAINIAN!! Just show us a film of Top Gun, and we will show Tom Cruise how it should be done.
Why do you murder your fellow countrymen when you know that you cannot win against the Russians?
Ukraine could train him in mental health. (LOL)
Haha
Maverick is the Ghost of Kyiv 😊
Perfect!
There maybe some experienced volunteers, I mean some western pilots went to train the Chinese airforce. I don’t think noise generated would be any louder. Time will tell
They had the same problem with the tanks. Ukrainians used to operating Russian made tanks and equipment were not suitably trained to operate the Western tanks. That's why the Russians were able to quickly cut down their numbers until they have almost none left.
I remember shaking my head, thinking what a phenomenal waste of equipment it was going to be, and sure enough, they were almost wiped completely out.
It made it seem that Western made equipment, especially the M1 Abrams were easy targets to overwhelm. One of the main problems was that these tanks had no air cover. This was on top of the fact that you had Ukrainian officers conducting operations with equipment they were not as familiar with as they were with Russian made equipment.
Another consideration is that, while Russia operated essentially the same equipment, their tactics and strategies had changed from the old days. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians used the same old Russian style tactics from the old days.
I'm glad that someone is able to see that there is a much deeper issue involved that must be overcome. It's not so simple to just send them more equipment.
@direbearcoat7551 Got to agree, Ukraine got [ 31 ] 1980's upgraded Abrams, 2 company's worth, with most losses due to mines and as you say without any air cover gives them very limited mission capability.
The 130+ Bradley's delivered have had a much more effective role. They were much more adaptable to the situation than the western tanks - more mobile, less training and coordination involved.
I think in 5 years there will be an end to the conflict, and by then either side will have drone and electronic weaponry dominance.
Maybe the CIA will setup a supply chain of dark web Chinese silicone chips that fail discretely so that the trust level in buying from outside sources is zero.
I think the US/EU vs Ru/China Satellite war will heat up too. If killer satellites are able to severely reduce the battlefield intel, it will pay a big dividend - seeing what and where the enemy is VS not knowing where you are will be huge.
Still think they should have gone the Gripen route - Sweden could then have proved it's product, and Ukraine could have more mobile and durable aircraft - but the training is even longer. And of course getting paid for assets is not the same as donating old stock so you can upgrade yours to new won't work either.
1:47 I love the humour of that AI image
7:05 😂
The second they touch ground a few FAB300,s will be on their way. What a FABilous promise. What a gamechanger.
Russia doesn't have air superiority over their own FLOT and you think that they can get FAB-500s onto AIRFIELDS?!
@@ArchOfficial who told you they don't have air superiority?
The number of flight hours is the most significant part. But you can only compress this so much. I believe it to be true that, only simpler missions will be possible, but adding the 2 Swedish awacs to the operations will increase survivability significantly. This is not a miracle game changer but will in the longer run add a building-block to the Ukrainian resistance. If it can midi gate the glidebomb-attacks, I would count this as a success. This will open up things for the ground forces.
F16 is a dangerous platform. In the early days, it will have some success launching missiles from a safe distance. After that, doubt any pilot of F16 will survive more than 5 or 6 missions. Especially if he's launching JDAM.
Maybe the pilots just don’t want to go home only to immediately die?
There are a few "ya, butts" to this whole situation though. Using an F-16 like a soviet-style fighter would indeed be a waste. But we cannot discount the operational experience the Ukrainian Air Force pilots have received in their very unique combat environment since 2022. NATO planners did not fully understand how the situation was on the ground and it resulted in the 2023 failed Ukrainian summer offensive. So they are not exactly starting from zero.
The real issue they have to address in my opinion is keeping those aircraft protected. They are struggling with that now with their clunky old MiG-29s.
Have in mind that the proposed f-16s are basically on par with those clunky old MIG-29. They are getting (if they do) extremely old F-16 versions with airframes full of micro cracks + a huge logistics and training human resources nightmare. Most people ignore the fact of the exhausted airframes.
Millennium, do you think the provided F-16 training will allow the Ukr pilots to do these missions:
- Intercept a portion of Shahed drones and cruise missiles?
- Launch glide bombs and HARM missiles from their own airspace?
- If needed, defend themselves using AIM-120 with the help of Swedish Awacs? Again, in their own airspace with the help of SAMs.
I don't think there's anything more than that expected from them now.
They could be an AIM-120 threat to Russian aircraft supporting ground assaults. That's key to holding the line the Russians seem to keep throwing themselves against with high losses.
Greetings from The Netherlands. I live in a place where we can see the planes in the air when they go on training missions. I can only say that we only see F-35's, Chinooks and Apaches at this moment. The F-16's aren't here anymore. I don't know where they are, but not in The Netherlands I think. By the way those F-35's make a lot of noise! Way more than the F-16's! Strange for a stealth fighter.
They had 20 trained pilots for those F16's and the half life of Ukrainian pilots, even trained ones, isn't very high.
It would have made no difference.
Your video title is clickbait and not coherent with what you say in the video (NOT instead of DELAYED being the problem). 😞
True, I am not very proud but the alternative is being ignored...
"will not arrive"- under what circumstances do you think NATO will deliver them after the unconditional surrender? time is running out for the Banderites.
@@Millennium7HistoryTech Are you saying your content is subpar and the clickbait is the only reason you can think of to overcome the less than content ??
I personally watch the content I enjoy and I enjoy your content when the subject interests me. Clickbait titles that don't match the content leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth, that causes me to ignore a channels videos more and more as the clickbait stays or grows.
I suspect and only guessing people don't completely watch a video if the content slaps them in the face with a desperately begging uploader using clickbait. Honest content with honest titles would get you more compete video watched - maybe not as many views.
What does youtube care more about - complete video views or more views of 1/3 to 3/5th completed views ??
Plus remember your a russian / china / turkey shill that gets payed a lot of money .. Yes I'm joking with you.. So youtube algorithm shouldn't matter.
Again this is all guessing and speculation from me 👍👍
@@Millennium7HistoryTech In spite of the fact that clickbait undeniably "works", I can't accept it. I will not make excuses for it.
At the end of the day another drag and pony show (pun intended)
I have wondered about this since announcing the giving of F-16's to Ukraine, from Soviet to that will not be a year or so unless they just wanna do PR stunt. I do think they find retired F-16 pilots to hire and be pilot training officers, not sure they can find some to do combat roles though
Someone should send Tom Cruise a memo, he's needed.
He's a true American and would never fight for the current corrupt administration.
I believe he only flys F14s 😂
@@dexlab7539 He can start by crash a 6G prototype (a B-21?) then fly a end-of-life fighter into Ukraine, lose the plane heroically, then steal an enemy F-14 to defeat Russia. Gosh, the script practically writes itself!
Don't forget Rambo.
"The F-16s Will NOT Arrive."
I said this from day one.
i think they will arrive but they'll underestimate the difference those top side intake flaps on Russian fighters makes and will never admit how horrendous the maintenance is and never explain why so few are active.
Oh they will, but ukrainians won't be flying them
whatever ball licker!
You selectively repeated only HALF of what he said. He said they will, EVENTUALLY.
More training and the protective measures need to be in place before their introduction. Another point he mentioned is that it's likely the pilots will receive a limited training set for a few tasks, like downing drones, launching glide bombs and missiles. That limits the F-26's utility, but would still be a very useful asset. Personally, I think HARM missiles might also be included and some electronic warfare and electronic surveillance could be added for a subset of the pilots.
Except that he said they will arrive. Idiot.
Gus, good presentation. Otis needs a RADAR dish and a pair of wings.
I agree with everything that you are saying. It is exceptionally complicated and challenging to learn how to pilot these aircraft.
There is also the added complication of UN-learning the habits of flying Soviet aircraft, which adds its own challenges and delays.
these are some really good points made here that often people tends to miss.. buying a modern 4.5 generation jet is not as same as Lend Lease P-40s, which would often handed down to operational units without sufficient training or logistical knowledge.. you can potentially learn how to fly in F-16 in 6 months (assuming you trained on Western trainer jets or oriented to those).. but QFIs and QWIs are just not possible to pop out in 9 months...
However.. The approach here begs questions.. many countries in the world has pilots qualified to fly F-16's. Countries like South Korea, Turkey, Pakistan has a provision in their military which is called rank retirement (if you are a major then you retire by 40.. a brigadier retires at 55) these major equivalent officers from these countries can fly as mercenary pilot (pilots engineers technicians etc) and since the countries are close enough in tactics.. and speaks good enough English.. I believe they will be a confident component if one or two squadrons of all foreign pilots are to be raised in Ukraine for F-16s..
Yes, but they don't want to die...
Well, need is a great motivator for change.
Still, I guess it is and will be a tough job for the Ukrainian pilots to adapt. On the other hand, I agree it is very likely that the pilots will receive training in a limited mission spectrum.
And Ukraine is currently doing a good job at reducing the SAM dangers. That will help those new pilots in becoming experienced ones...
Plus the F-16 apparently is very poor in remote airfields. And support equipment is not designed to operate in remote locatons. I think even the undercarriage does not work well on unimproved runways.
😂😂😂😂😂 right..
They will arrive. They’re waiting until they have enough pilots. I hope they’re only sending rookies for training. Veteran Su/MiG pilots cannot transition. The time estimates cited in the media were always insane. It’d be great if they could hire some foreign pilots. You’re not giving them enough credit if you don’t think they haven’t been preparing the infrastructure.
You watched the video??? It's about how many years it takes to train a pilot...
The thing is that how much of Ukraine will be intact by then.
The North Korean will arrive in few months too.
And the one thing that is certain here is that these F-16s won't win the war for Ukraine.
In the end, the inevitable cannot be prevented.
@@akosyoutub Yes, I watched. He didn’t talk about the issue of transitioning and while I love his channel, his title is misleading click bait. My comment was for people who likely wouldn’t watch full the video.
@@akosyoutub He would have talked about the example of Polish pilots trying to transition to the F-16 for the most appropriate example and biggest problem.
@@The_ZeroLine The Romanian AF is not fully combat capable after 10 years... They requested help from the German AF for air defense when the Russian missile fell on their territory. The Hungarian AF needed some 4 years to transition to the Gripen for the peace time air policing tasks, and worked together with the Mig-29s for years. So, there is real life data how much time is needed for this, and those are in peace time and not in a war.
Unfortunately I agree.
I wished I could support you as I appreciate your perspective.
Limiting themselves to cruise missile and drone interception as well as standoff bomb releases probably makes the most sense.
There is no point doing more in such circumstances.
A succinct explainer on the topic.
In a war with many many Mercs volunteers I actually wonder why Ukraine doing this would be so out of the question. It solves one of their biggest problems with the f16
It’s not like they matter that much anymore. They were supposed to provide air cover for the famous spring counteroffensive. Now that it failed, Ukraine is out of Tanks and out of attack helis. They can’t do another counteroffensive.
Attack helis are for defence, not atttack
@tetraxis3011
I think the only realistic use for them now is firing off storm-shadows and jdams every now and then when the Russians are on the offensive maybe.
They can't really do much in terms of air defence because there's not enough Patriots/Soviet AA systems any longer in most of Ukraine to sufficiently cover the airfields they'd be taking off from in the first place, old Soviet jets would be better for that since they're so much more versatile but they're practically all blown up or out of the air after the last 2.5 years as well.
Really it's all just bullshit for vague propaganda purposes now.
Where did you get that from? We all knew it was new pilots so anyone who said F16 would be operating in country in spring 2023 isn’t worth listening to.
@@hollowgonzalo4329 If you look at the near real-time GPS jamming maps, you'll figure out that the Storm-Shadow and JDAMS are essentially dumb bombs, also of no practical use. They essentailly become either intentional or unintentional tools of committing war crimes in the legal sphere.
@@Statueshop297 Yea. True. But then how was the counteroffensive supposed to succeed if it had no air cover?
How would f16s be a game changer when Ukraine has SU27 that already is more powerful than f16s in everyway?
Thank you, this was extremely informative. As always. Much as I think I know what's going on, I always lean new things from your videos.
Lots of reasons to hold them back. If they go down, EU countries will be pressured to give more of them. They didn't seem all that thrilled the first time around.
Nah don't worry. With 80 airframes and just 12 pilots Ukraine will run out of people to fly the F-16s long before they run out of the jets.
F16s are how many years old. Are they operational. Has scrap been donated to Ukraine
They are all F-16AM's from the Dutch, Danish and Norwegian airforce, that are still operating them but they are in the process of upgrading to the F-35 which is the only reason why these aircraft are available. All were modernised just a decade ago to MLU standard.
I personally know 100% from some acquaintances of mine, there WILL be some US volunteer pilots or "trainers"...
Perfect qualification for a Red Flag aggressor pilot, to have flown combat missions in Ukraine.
Without qualified pilots and maintenance personell, their first sortie could lead to the loss of both the aircraft and the pilot.
Again, providing Ukraine f-16s was always political theater and symbolism. It will have little to no effect in the conflict
Very stupid comment
Exactly, just like Javelins and Himars
@@tedarcher9120 Nah, more like aybruhms and challenger 2s
@@tedarcher9120 Truth be told, both Javelins and Himars had some noticable success in the begining, but their novelty wore off pretty fast and the russians had learned to negate their effect.
@@KondorDCSIn what way has Russia negated Javelin? There’s a couple S400s real confused why the Himars wasn’t negated.
Well, looks like this already didnt age well...
7th July, 8pm GMT:
"Dutch new Foreign Minister Caspar Veldkamp states during a visit to Ukraine that the "immediate" delivery of F-16 fighter jets will be provided. "Since we have now received the approval for the delivery of the first F-16 jets, they will be delivered immediately", Veldkamp says in Kiev to journalists. The Netherlands had promised Ukraine a total of 24 F-16 fighter jets. Veldkamp makes no further comments on the delivery schedule."
Yes, but the whole video is about pilots being the limiting factor, not the aircraft.
>just two more weeks
@@FinsburyPhil That's not what the title of the video says...
I appreciate your channel, but I think you are wrong on this one: F-16's are reportedly in transfer to Ukraine as of this moment. Source: Antony Blinken during the NATO summit in DC.
What source(s) caused you to reconsider which aspect (logistics vs pilot training) was the greater hurdle to overcome?
Iskander and fab 3000
What was the last war Sweden won? maybe 300 years ago?
They actually lost 315 years ago on the same territory in the Battle of Poltava.
@@olexp9017 What is it with western powers trying to conquer Ukraine about 1-2 times per century.
Name the last war the US won for the last 50 years
Its sad that instead of trying to get both parties to negotiations everyone seems happy with adding more and more fuel to a sensless fire.... 😢
You should realize by now that Ukrainians don't have a say in this war. The two sides are Russia and the US.
Tell that to Putin. Nobody forces him to kill people in another country
What negotiations? Putin doesn't negotiate, he demands compliance. Ukraine isn't Russian, he says it is and so no deal acceptable to Ukraine is possible. Putin needs to be shown that Europe will not bend to his will.
@@Ollies2CentsWardill
I think this kind of statement is short sighted.
Thousands of people die in Ukraine.
Russians, Ukrainian and volunteers.... What harm would it do to try to stop the shooting?
A compromise will always be a compromise that is the thing with negotiations between countries - one can never make everyone happy.
It would not harm anyone in Ukraine if a cease fire could be accomplished
Anyway - I digress..
Luke Skywalker never having seen an X-wing climed into one AND took command of the squadron.
Would the same have been said about the Gripen, assuming there's no block?
Yes, save the Gripen is somewhat easier to fly, some sources say.
F16-💪
M777 , Leopard , Chanllenger , Ibrams , Bradly , .... bla bla bla next F-16 ... 2 months Then no talk about it as all the previous
How can Ukrainian airforce feild F16s when Russian ISR is so efficient at detecting targets they will be smashed on the ground as soon as they enter the stage.
You miss the point. A Russian missile fired at a military target is a Russian missile that did not kill a Ukrainian child in a civilian target, like an apartment building. I'm quite confident efficient Russian ISR is aware of targeted apartment buildings and dead Ukrainian children. They know everything and press on to victory. And victory isn't everything, it is the only thing.
Thanks
They will loose Kyiv and Odessa before they receive their F-16 saviors LOL??
Ukraine will transition to f-45 before that happens
Don’t agree with your opinion but like arse holes everyone’s got one
I long suspect, if the F16 arrives, they will be piloted by non-ukrainians 😉
The passports will give an answer.
The people who are trained are already pilots, and yes it’s hard but necessity makes it work. They don’t need as much training as pilots starting from scratch
There are no road bases in Sweden anymore. Only 3 dedicted airbases with no shelters. And the Swedish military focuses everything on its decade old dream of achieving the sum total of 2½ brigades with the ambition to defend one site for one week (which has been set back for years after most tanks, IFVs, artillery, ammunition has been sent to Ukraine).
10 years to learn something?
Their training is either extremely bad, or the people who enroll are not the sharpest tools in the shed.
Nope, a jet like the F-16, demands lots of training and gaining experience.
This, to make sure that, in a life or death situation, the pilot will react as if it was second nature.
One cannot reach that level in a year or less.
"Advanced fighter jets in a hot war" .
Dudes commenting this as if they're only learning to ride a bike 😂
@GTfour01 I have quite a bit of experience in very complex fields and I can tell you, if it takes so much time, a component along the chain has broken.
@@Retheraq I suggest you go tell this to the U.S. Airforce or Royal Airforce. You might learn them a thing or two.