Seeing a lot of Military and Spec Ops guys preferring Stack and Dynamic Entry,I was skeptical at first watching this. Then you bombard me with facts and logics. Makes sense. Good to have it from the Law Enforcement side. Thank you
As a law enforcement, I’ve had to clear a house or those with lights and those without lights. I have never been a fan of a “ Stack” plus I am almost always alone. I employ a version of your method I sweep the door first by digging te near corner then gun at ready do a sweep across the threshold from the hallway. You can see approximately 80% of the room this way. Then you have to enter and engage the unseen areas as best as possible. This works best on corner fed rooms. Center fed rooms Suck. I enjoyed your video, my only suggestion is do it with people instead of animation. Also thank you for your answer. Much food for thought. Stay safe…Charlie
I have never had an issue with shooting speedsofters or "fast moving tangos". There are two types of CQB players IMO, those who know how to use cover effectively and those who do not.
To summarize this video stack and flow are not something you want to do for safety reasons, only in scenarios like hostage situations when their safety is more important than yours like you said in your video. I was really confused on what you were trying to say until towards the end because in your video you say these techniques are better when I think you should be saying safer. One last thing, is slicing considered limited penetration?
I was never in the military. Room clearing when you know there are armed bad guys in the structure is definitely to be avoided whenever possible. On the SWAT side we will use a variety of tactics to force a prepared defender to exit a structure rather than go in and get them. This can take several hours and sometimes even days. The SWAT mission is very different from the military one.
Is "the hybrid method" means something like Threshold Evaluation ? And you noticed that the hybrid method is mainly used in HR scenario. But in fact ,you can still using rescue speed in Limited Penetration, such as start slicing from 90 degree, instead of narrow angle. Also, I have seen many military squad using the hybrid method in room clearing, it looks like an unique slice-based entry method for Western and Russian troops, unlike the Israeli Limited Penetration. Looking forward to a video about the comparison between the Threshold Evaluation and Israeli Limited Penetration !
I have never heard of "threshold evaluation". In our method "Cheating to the 90" is reserved for Hostage Rescue. That and a few bounding attack techniques are the main differences from our normal clearing method. I would caution against throwing out the narrow approach to check that hard corner during your approach.
I am a supporter of threshold entry. But your video is assuming the bad guys are gonna stand still. After the first bad guy goes down the others know you’re there. No more surprise. So I guess you continue the threshold method only very slowly?
Good question! You are opening a can of worms that I am going to try to explain somewhat concisely. The first thing is the "bad guys" already know you're there 95% of the time. There is local surprise and global surprise. Global surprise is when you hit the door. It only lasts five to ten seconds. Local surprise is the surprise at each individual threshold. You can regain local surprise in a variety of ways including distraction devices. In the real world you have a variety of "bad guys" with varying degrees of commitment to violence. Most surrender, some run/hide and a very small amount resist with violence. So your scenario of multiple armed, violent bad guys in a single room is EXTREMELY rare in a real world context. In an airsoft context it is common. As far as how to deal with it I am gonna give you the classic and very safe SWAT answer of "It depends." The best approach to a second threat in the room may be to back up and call the person out, back up and use some additional tools (gas, drones, port charge, tear off the wall with an armored vehicle, etc), or use a distraction device to regain surpise and continue the clear. There are a lot of variables in the real world that you don't get an appreciation for in airsoft. The airsoft answer is I would back up one step and deploy a ThunderB followed by a slower pie of the room.
So basically limited penetration is better if your mission is not time sensitive and/or nobody of importance is in danger. On the contrary stack and flow is better if your mission is time sensitive and/or somebody of importance is in danger.
In my opinion, stack and flow methods of CQB are foolish at best and suicidal at worst. They are not behaviorally complaint. They are disastrous when used against prepared defenders. Limited Penetration methods are safer. In cases where innocent life is threatened (or some other exigency) there are short cuts you can use while still performing a threshold assault. It is the same method, just faster. Additionally there are bounding techniques from the threshold specifically designed for hostage rescue situations. All of these fall under the "Limited Penetration" umbrella.
@@GunfatherMilsim I agree that in most law enforcement situations limited penetration is the superior method. However (as you also stated) the hybrid method has a time and place (such as hostage rescue). For the most part, the hybrid method and the traditional “stack and flow” method are very similar as they both involve rushing into the room. Because of this I wouldn’t entirely disregard the traditional method.
@Th3Comb1ne Limited Penetration CQB does include entering the room. There is just an assessment from the threshold before entry is made. A moment spent gathering intel at the threshold makes any dynamic movements that follow more effective than simply "running in the room". I was trained in stack & flow. I have been doing this a long time. It doesn't hold up under sims. The "Hybrid" I referenced in the video just includes certain bounding techniques that are executed from the threshold.
@@GunfatherMilsim If the hybrid method is a viable technique I cannot see a justification to completely forgo the traditional method. As you said yourself there is an advantage to rushing the room under certain situations. Also let us consider a few more things. What if you have distraction devices? What if you still have global surprise? What if the hallway is too narrow to properly hold forward security while someone is peeking a doorway? What if you come across a self closing door? What if the geometry of the room doesn’t allow you to quickly secure the hostage from the threshold? These are several reasons as to why I wouldn’t entirely abandon the traditional method.
@Th3Comb1ne Yep, those are all difficult situations. I just don't think blindly running into the room is the best answer to them. The issue isn't the "running into the room", it is the "blindly" part that causes the problem. The main problem with stack & flow methods is when people are shooting, no one runs through doorways. Regardless of training and lives at risk, your lizard brain desire to survive won't allow you to run through that door. There is room for variations in tactics. The "Rolling Doors" stuff that is all the rage right now is a specific technique for a specific type of room clearing. Namely a raid using night vision. Can something useful be gleaned from it that could be useful for LEOs and civilians? Possibly, but it is still essentially the threshold assessment system. They just pan across the threshold prior to making entry. Literally, NO ONE is just running blindly into rooms anymore (barring the hallways suddenly becoming an unsafe place).
" Assumed " bud. I understand they are gonna shoot ya either way. But if you operated in the US you know damn well even a fucking .380 is going through dry wall. I respect the point ya made and acknowledge this makes more sense but please be reasonable about wall penetration
This video is a bit dated. I go into greater detail about the threat of wall penetration in a similar video on my new channel. You can find it here if you are interested. ua-cam.com/video/PHry2hCikAM/v-deo.htmlsi=sNzc_mxOggYjS9jk
Seeing a lot of Military and Spec Ops guys preferring Stack and Dynamic Entry,I was skeptical at first watching this. Then you bombard me with facts and logics. Makes sense. Good to have it from the Law Enforcement side. Thank you
Different missions/equipment result in different tactics.
As a law enforcement, I’ve had to clear a house or those with lights and those without lights. I have never been a fan of a “ Stack” plus I am almost always alone. I employ a version of your method I sweep the door first by digging te near corner then gun at ready do a sweep across the threshold from the hallway. You can see approximately 80% of the room this way. Then you have to enter and engage the unseen areas as best as possible. This works best on corner fed rooms. Center fed rooms Suck. I enjoyed your video, my only suggestion is do it with people instead of animation. Also thank you for your answer. Much food for thought.
Stay safe…Charlie
Great video, I'm learining a lot from this channel. Keep them coming 👍
Thanks! You are a very honest, clear and knowledgeable instructor!
Thank you sir.
I like these concept videos. Strong work.
Good video - and criminally low viewer count
Keep on keeping on broski
I wonder tho, how does this method holds against speedsofter and fast moving tangos ?
I have never had an issue with shooting speedsofters or "fast moving tangos". There are two types of CQB players IMO, those who know how to use cover effectively and those who do not.
Makes sence. Great video
Just thanks 😊
MUY BUEN VIDEO BRO, AND THE BEER? CONGRATS FOR YOU CONTENT.
To summarize this video stack and flow are not something you want to do for safety reasons, only in scenarios like hostage situations when their safety is more important than yours like you said in your video.
I was really confused on what you were trying to say until towards the end because in your video you say these techniques are better when I think you should be saying safer. One last thing, is slicing considered limited penetration?
I was never in the military. Room clearing when you know there are armed bad guys in the structure is definitely to be avoided whenever possible. On the SWAT side we will use a variety of tactics to force a prepared defender to exit a structure rather than go in and get them. This can take several hours and sometimes even days. The SWAT mission is very different from the military one.
I think the idea is that "safer" is also generally better unless there are hostages inside to be prioritized.
🤙🏻
Is "the hybrid method" means something like Threshold Evaluation ?
And you noticed that the hybrid method is mainly used in HR
scenario. But in fact ,you can still using rescue speed in Limited Penetration, such as start slicing from 90 degree, instead of narrow angle. Also, I have seen many military squad using the hybrid method in room clearing, it looks like an unique slice-based entry method for Western and Russian troops, unlike the Israeli Limited Penetration.
Looking forward to a video about the comparison between the Threshold Evaluation and Israeli Limited Penetration !
I have never heard of "threshold evaluation".
In our method "Cheating to the 90" is reserved for Hostage Rescue. That and a few bounding attack techniques are the main differences from our normal clearing method.
I would caution against throwing out the narrow approach to check that hard corner during your approach.
Just subd and shared
Thanks
I am a supporter of threshold entry. But your video is assuming the bad guys are gonna stand still. After the first bad guy goes down the others know you’re there. No more surprise. So I guess you continue the threshold method only very slowly?
Good question!
You are opening a can of worms that I am going to try to explain somewhat concisely. The first thing is the "bad guys" already know you're there 95% of the time. There is local surprise and global surprise. Global surprise is when you hit the door. It only lasts five to ten seconds. Local surprise is the surprise at each individual threshold. You can regain local surprise in a variety of ways including distraction devices. In the real world you have a variety of "bad guys" with varying degrees of commitment to violence. Most surrender, some run/hide and a very small amount resist with violence. So your scenario of multiple armed, violent bad guys in a single room is EXTREMELY rare in a real world context. In an airsoft context it is common.
As far as how to deal with it I am gonna give you the classic and very safe SWAT answer of "It depends." The best approach to a second threat in the room may be to back up and call the person out, back up and use some additional tools (gas, drones, port charge, tear off the wall with an armored vehicle, etc), or use a distraction device to regain surpise and continue the clear. There are a lot of variables in the real world that you don't get an appreciation for in airsoft.
The airsoft answer is I would back up one step and deploy a ThunderB followed by a slower pie of the room.
Make more videos bro 👌🔫🔫
🙊👌 Get like get coment on this ! Airsoft Beast sport ewer ! 👌
🔫
🔫🔫🔫What you mean about me airsoft videos ?
So basically limited penetration is better if your mission is not time sensitive and/or nobody of importance is in danger.
On the contrary stack and flow is better if your mission is time sensitive and/or somebody of importance is in danger.
In my opinion, stack and flow methods of CQB are foolish at best and suicidal at worst. They are not behaviorally complaint. They are disastrous when used against prepared defenders. Limited Penetration methods are safer. In cases where innocent life is threatened (or some other exigency) there are short cuts you can use while still performing a threshold assault. It is the same method, just faster. Additionally there are bounding techniques from the threshold specifically designed for hostage rescue situations. All of these fall under the "Limited Penetration" umbrella.
@@GunfatherMilsim I agree that in most law enforcement situations limited penetration is the superior method. However (as you also stated) the hybrid method has a time and place (such as hostage rescue). For the most part, the hybrid method and the traditional “stack and flow” method are very similar as they both involve rushing into the room. Because of this I wouldn’t entirely disregard the traditional method.
@Th3Comb1ne Limited Penetration CQB does include entering the room. There is just an assessment from the threshold before entry is made. A moment spent gathering intel at the threshold makes any dynamic movements that follow more effective than simply "running in the room". I was trained in stack & flow. I have been doing this a long time. It doesn't hold up under sims. The "Hybrid" I referenced in the video just includes certain bounding techniques that are executed from the threshold.
@@GunfatherMilsim If the hybrid method is a viable technique I cannot see a justification to completely forgo the traditional method. As you said yourself there is an advantage to rushing the room under certain situations.
Also let us consider a few more things. What if you have distraction devices? What if you still have global surprise? What if the hallway is too narrow to properly hold forward security while someone is peeking a doorway? What if you come across a self closing door? What if the geometry of the room doesn’t allow you to quickly secure the hostage from the threshold?
These are several reasons as to why I wouldn’t entirely abandon the traditional method.
@Th3Comb1ne Yep, those are all difficult situations. I just don't think blindly running into the room is the best answer to them. The issue isn't the "running into the room", it is the "blindly" part that causes the problem. The main problem with stack & flow methods is when people are shooting, no one runs through doorways. Regardless of training and lives at risk, your lizard brain desire to survive won't allow you to run through that door. There is room for variations in tactics. The "Rolling Doors" stuff that is all the rage right now is a specific technique for a specific type of room clearing. Namely a raid using night vision. Can something useful be gleaned from it that could be useful for LEOs and civilians? Possibly, but it is still essentially the threshold assessment system. They just pan across the threshold prior to making entry. Literally, NO ONE is just running blindly into rooms anymore (barring the hallways suddenly becoming an unsafe place).
" Assumed " bud. I understand they are gonna shoot ya either way. But if you operated in the US you know damn well even a fucking .380 is going through dry wall. I respect the point ya made and acknowledge this makes more sense but please be reasonable about wall penetration
This video is a bit dated. I go into greater detail about the threat of wall penetration in a similar video on my new channel. You can find it here if you are interested.
ua-cam.com/video/PHry2hCikAM/v-deo.htmlsi=sNzc_mxOggYjS9jk