You rock man! Making one but covering it w mesh as cat might think its a second litter box😂 i have a small solar panel and will see if its enough power for it.
I am thinking making a few for a greenhouse to extend the grow cycle. Going to use a bigger volume of sand, 55 gallon drum and 4 of the pads in there. That should keep is warm the entire night if I can get it up to max heat during daylight hours
I just purchased a few of these 100w silicone heating pads with matching heatsinks. I do like the idea of the sand also since it will retain and radiate the heat.
Really cool..now I have another idea for my sand battery. Since I'm using a 15" copper bucket, I could put 2 of these silicone pads...they seem like they'd be safer than a water heater element. Adding a peltier fan can circulate the air coming off the pan
I was wondering how to heat my garage for the outdoor kittens this winter. Have a solar charger and hoping this will work with it. I didn’t want something that would burn them. My charger is small so this will be a solution I was looking for, thanks ☺️
Wonder if the heat powered fans will run easily sitting on top 🧐 right now I use a copper plate atop my radiator heater with the heat fan … but it doesn’t always heat up enough to run it … love your vids for things to try … ❤️
Hey @desertsun02, I had an idea for a thermal battery that you may like. Indoors, in a window, construct a solar collector that encapsulates Evacuated Tubes connected to a copper pipe manifold. The manifold should lead to a heat-exchange coil that is buried in a 55Gal Steel Drum filled with Sand. Atop the sand, you install a T.E.G Fan (the likes of which one finds atop wood stoves). When there is sun, the Evacuated Tubes will produce a tremendous heat, thus charging the sand-battery with heat that will dissipate gradually over a period of time. This build is modular, customizable, low-cost, low-maintennace and is IDEAL for winterized domiciles that are off-grid.
hi there. it was radiating heat for 6 to 8 hours during testing. i've got another 10 lbs. of sand in there now and i'm testing to see if that will push it up to the 9-10-11 hour range. (maybe longer). i'm not sure how long until it is zero. but solid noticeable heat for 6 to 8.
If you can plug it straight into a solar panel, very much needed. Sunny all day in winter and heating water or air is better than PV. Part cloudy, all that thermal lag and cooling means you get nowhere, almost, with things outside.
Very cool and interesting! Could see this as a potential way to heat a small bathroom and casted iron bath tub! What's your ambient air temp and how long did it, sand, stay hot without power/solar? What's the silicone heating pad usually used for? Is it only on/off or a way to adjust heat?
hi and thank you! love the tub idea! it was 65 to 68F ambient temp before starting. it, of course, is heating the air during the charging phase too but will radiate the strongest after the sand is fully 'charged'. those pads have different uses... some are used for food delivery - to keep food hot in transit. others are used with 3D printers, and others are used with automotives. the pads come in many sizes and shapes. some are cooler and some get a lot hotter. (to 300F and even 400F). the one i'm using has a built-in automatic on/off switch so it stays between 120F to about 160F. sand stays hot for 6 to 8 hours (but i've added even more sand (another 10 lbs.) to get it in the 9-10-11 hour range.
Awesome 😎 thanks so much for detailed reply! Love all your ideas and videos. Been in 30s overnight here in desert and my tiny bathroom doesn't have heat or any decent insulation, but the tub is cast iron. Bathroom was 52 overnight - much too cold for my chemo damaged feet and hands that can't tolerate below 60. When it's in 20's I sometimes use lil TSC space heater in the tub but it uses a lot of electric and dims the lights even on lowest settings.
Amy, you should get a Buddy heater and a couple of propane bottles. I use that in my bathroom every morning and one of the green bottles lasts about a week.
I have electric storage heater in a couple rooms in our house, never use them because of the cost of electricity but If they were chargerged up all day with direct solar, could be a great solution.
i agree. it's a maintenance free system (once you set it up) and has no moving parts, so you can just set it and forget it. works great for heating or supplemental heating. no need for battery storage because the sand is the battery in a sense. easy to expand the system too. just add more sand and more pads. they sell pads that get hotter too (300F/150C) so if you have extra solar panels for more power that's an option for extra heat.
Any chance you could give a little more info here like how long did it take to heat up the 25lbs of sand and what power it used to do so so there is some comparison on of it's even worth doing if it took 100 watts for 24 hours to get the sand less then 200°F then it might last an estimated 2-3 hours as it cools and was not worth doing as it would not help anyone in rapid need if heat not would it last long enough to justify the power use in an emergency etc I did a few very similar tests a few weeks ago and it did work but I was hoping for better with that said I use only a 20 watt version of the 12v silicon heaters in a cake tin with sand like you have done here I hope you have time to answer the I do is the key thanks for the vid
i would guess that fine sand would work better but i could be wrong. might be worth trying coarse grain and doing side by side tests. i don't think there is a better alternative. sand works very well and is becoming a big thing in the heat/energy storage area. maybe molten salt or something but that is not a diy thing. some people like to mention water but that only gets to 212F(100C). sand on the other hand has a high thermal tolerance. you can heat sand up to about 3090F(1700C) before it would melt.
hi. i'm working on a copper plate sand battery air heater currently. it will be the next video 🙂 sand is getting from 200 to 300F (100/200C). copper element is getting to 375F(190C). some 12v silicone pads will get that hot too (but will draw more amps)
Problem with sand is there is still air in between so why not use concrete with metal pipes in it so you can extract the heat by blowing air through the pipes like they do in Finland with their big sand battery? Extra advantages concrete /stone you could even bury it in the ground cause it would not be influenced by water like sand etc and you could make it any form and size. The whole point of a sand battery is make its stone mass big enough to store heat-energy for the moment you need it. That can be storing heat for just one cold night but also for storing heat for an entire winter lijke the do in Finland withe Polar Night Energy project
i've been thinking about burying some flexible copper pipe in a bucket or drum filled with sand. if the sand is hot enough it should create hot warm for a long time. i've heard from several people that actually use a wood stove to heat the sand.
The amount of electricity you have put into, does not change how much heat will come out of it overall. All you are doing is slowing it down. If you put the same amount into a space heater, you will get the same amount of heat released, but in a MUCH shorter time.
hi. well this unit is 12v powered so you could run it on 12v battery or 12v solar panels. if that is not an option for you, i also have other sand battery heaters that are powered with candles and/or tealights. i just posted a video of a powerful sand based air heater that runs just using tealights (it even has a tealight powered fan). i also have lots of other off-grid heater videos on this channel. you may want to check the playlist area or the channels video page for those.
hi. there are definitely other types of heating elements you can use with sand batteries. i've made smaller ones with ptc elements with good results. i've also been experimenting with using fresnel lenses. those really heat the sand very fast and to very high temps. my next video may be a sand battery heated with one of those lenses. i used that particular pad because i wanted to make a sand battery that could easily be 'charged up' using either the 12v power socket of a vehicle or just two 12v 100w solar panels. but if you've got the extra power they do sell pads that get hotter. i saw one pad that was rated 392F(200C) and a couple that get to 300F
The size/output of the heating element is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter whether you put in 100w in an hour or 100w in 1/2 hour. The law of conservation of energy takes effect. The more energy you put in, the more you get out. So, using a higher amperage element just means you must put more power (watts) into the sand. All resistive elements have similar efficiency. Depending on your use case, you may not want a higher amp element. A lower amp element would be better suited for solar, as it puts heat into the sand over a longer period of time.
@@jcamp359 that wasn't why i think something hotter would work better. the reason i think hotter would work better is because it should help with storing more energy into the sand battery while keeping the size basically the same.
@@oplkfdhgk yes that is correct. Practicality becomes an issue. You must put in more energy with a higher amperage element. So, I’m saying, an element twice the amperage of another element will produce twice the heat, but will consume twice the power (watts). If you are using solar as the power source, it may not be ideal to use a higher wattage element. The silicone element is 100w. That is close to ideal size for a 200w solar panel. There are 12v 150w immersion heaters that may be able to run from 200w solar. So yeah, maybe gain a little. But going to a 600w 12v immersion heater would require 1,000w of solar. And of course if you try to go from 12v to ac heating element, you lose efficiency in inverting from dc to ac. And if you don’t add additional thermal mass, all you’re accomplishing is heating the sand faster. Maybe good in some circumstances, bad in others.
one big advantage of sand over water is that it can be heated to much higher temps. water only goes to 212F(100C) whereas sand can be heated to 3090F(1700C) before it melts. also the issue with leaking and possible bacterial growth make it less than ideal in many situations. i'm currently experimenting with heating sand several other ways including with a fresnel lens and ptc heating elements. i'm hoping to get the sand to 800F/427C or more with the fresnel lens. imagine how long the heat would last from a pile of 800F sand. just started filming another video of a steel encased sand battery with copper plates and ptc elements. so far i've gotten the sand from 240F to 300F and was able to run a heat powered fan on the sand for over two hours after i turned the power off. may be my next video 🙂
Wouldn’t it be better to just use water to store the heat? At these temperatures there is no advantage in using sand for heat storage. Sand makes sense at >400C if I remember correctly.
hi. water has a few drawbacks including possible leaks and bacterial growth. you might have to change out the water every couple of days. with sand you can just 'set it and forget it'. you could hook this to a solar panel and run it all fall/winter long (with no maintenance, leaks or bacterial growth)
Dry out calcium chloride for long term seasonal storage? Add water to get energy back, about 0.2kWh/kg. Not very much for the effort, even with slightly more energy from water vapour. There are better chemicals, like ones for hand warmers. Then ask is two step and having iron reducing and oxidising better? Need hydrogen, not so difficult with DC power? Kind of need a clean, quiet all-in-one box She will like too. Not very big, but heavy. Better energy per volume than liquid fuels. Some countries, e.g. Germany, might have a boiler room for the apartment block making it easier. Unlike heating oil, you don't need to move the Fe far.
lots of 'focused daydreaming' mainly. sand storage is becoming a big thing in heat/energy storage these days. i wanted to make a simple heater that could be powered with 12v solar and also one that could be powered thru a 12v socket of either a car or jackary style system. it's not the strongest silicone heat pad you can buy (they sell higher heat ones) but it's one of the strongest that will run on an autos 12v socket. might help someone who is living the 'van life'. if you've got more power available you could use a silicone pad that gets hotter (some 12v ones reach 300F/150C and i saw one rated 200C/392F)
Thank you for the enhanced information. I am living in a 1990 RV on my land and still eager to learn more and more. I appreciate your "daydreams" brought into "reality" so very much. 👍 1952 Boomer🧓+🦮🐕🐩🐶🐕🦺Retired nurse living contently on 20 acres in the NW Chihuahuan Desert area in the USA
You rock man! Making one but covering it w mesh as cat might think its a second litter box😂 i have a small solar panel and will see if its enough power for it.
I am thinking making a few for a greenhouse to extend the grow cycle. Going to use a bigger volume of sand, 55 gallon drum and 4 of the pads in there. That should keep is warm the entire night if I can get it up to max heat during daylight hours
I just purchased a few of these 100w silicone heating pads with matching heatsinks. I do like the idea of the sand also since it will retain and radiate the heat.
You could put it on top of a wood stove or under it and use it to store heat. I wonder if adding rocks would improve the efficiency.
Really cool..now I have another idea for my sand battery. Since I'm using a 15" copper bucket, I could put 2 of these silicone pads...they seem like they'd be safer than a water heater element. Adding a peltier fan can circulate the air coming off the pan
sounds like a good plan 🙂👍
My heater likes this sandy heat sink, it takes some load off it at night.
as a supplemental heater to enhance heating, nice
Very cool video, thanks for sharing YAH bless !
Thank you too! 🙂
Another great design!
Glad you like it!
@@desertsun02 Yep, I have ordered 2 pads for a 24v system!
I was wondering how to heat my garage for the outdoor kittens this winter. Have a solar charger and hoping this will work with it. I didn’t want something that would burn them. My charger is small so this will be a solution I was looking for, thanks ☺️
Wonder if the heat powered fans will run easily sitting on top 🧐 right now I use a copper plate atop my radiator heater with the heat fan … but it doesn’t always heat up enough to run it … love your vids for things to try … ❤️
hi. if you use the heat fans with lower starting temp (122F/50c) they would probably run (not at full speed thou, but enough to circulate the air).
Hey @desertsun02,
I had an idea for a thermal battery that you may like.
Indoors, in a window, construct a solar collector that encapsulates Evacuated Tubes connected to a copper pipe manifold. The manifold should lead to a heat-exchange coil that is buried in a 55Gal Steel Drum filled with Sand. Atop the sand, you install a T.E.G Fan (the likes of which one finds atop wood stoves).
When there is sun, the Evacuated Tubes will produce a tremendous heat, thus charging the sand-battery with heat that will dissipate gradually over a period of time. This build is modular, customizable, low-cost, low-maintennace and is IDEAL for winterized domiciles that are off-grid.
hi and thanks for the idea! it sounds good! i'll give it some thought
cool, how long did it take to dissipate to zero?
hi there. it was radiating heat for 6 to 8 hours during testing. i've got another 10 lbs. of sand in there now and i'm testing to see if that will push it up to the 9-10-11 hour range. (maybe longer). i'm not sure how long until it is zero. but solid noticeable heat for 6 to 8.
@@desertsun02 thats so cool, and how long roughly did it take to get to maximum ish temp? keep up the good work
@@desertsun02 This is a reallly cool video, thanks for sharing! I'm very interested to see how you can find ways to get a longer dissipation time.
You mean dissipate to ambient 🤭
If you can plug it straight into a solar panel, very much needed. Sunny all day in winter and heating water or air is better than PV. Part cloudy, all that thermal lag and cooling means you get nowhere, almost, with things outside.
Would love to see a video hooked up to solar.
Youve never made a TLUD stove correct ?
Thanks in advance
Very cool and interesting!
Could see this as a potential way to heat a small bathroom and casted iron bath tub!
What's your ambient air temp and how long did it, sand, stay hot without power/solar?
What's the silicone heating pad usually used for? Is it only on/off or a way to adjust heat?
hi and thank you! love the tub idea! it was 65 to 68F ambient temp before starting. it, of course, is heating the air during the charging phase too but will radiate the strongest after the sand is fully 'charged'. those pads have different uses... some are used for food delivery - to keep food hot in transit. others are used with 3D printers, and others are used with automotives. the pads come in many sizes and shapes. some are cooler and some get a lot hotter. (to 300F and even 400F). the one i'm using has a built-in automatic on/off switch so it stays between 120F to about 160F. sand stays hot for 6 to 8 hours (but i've added even more sand (another 10 lbs.) to get it in the 9-10-11 hour range.
Awesome 😎 thanks so much for detailed reply!
Love all your ideas and videos.
Been in 30s overnight here in desert and my tiny bathroom doesn't have heat or any decent insulation, but the tub is cast iron. Bathroom was 52 overnight - much too cold for my chemo damaged feet and hands that can't tolerate below 60. When it's in 20's I sometimes use lil TSC space heater in the tub but it uses a lot of electric and dims the lights even on lowest settings.
Amy, you should get a Buddy heater and a couple of propane bottles. I use that in my bathroom every morning and one of the green bottles lasts about a week.
What are you running this heat pad on 120 ac volts.
hi. it's a 12v heat pad
I have electric storage heater in a couple rooms in our house, never use them because of the cost of electricity but If they were chargerged up all day with direct solar, could be a great solution.
i agree. it's a maintenance free system (once you set it up) and has no moving parts, so you can just set it and forget it. works great for heating or supplemental heating. no need for battery storage because the sand is the battery in a sense. easy to expand the system too. just add more sand and more pads. they sell pads that get hotter too (300F/150C) so if you have extra solar panels for more power that's an option for extra heat.
Where do you get the heating elements
hi. you can get these type of heating elements on amazon
Any chance you could give a little more info here like how long did it take to heat up the 25lbs of sand and what power it used to do so so there is some comparison on of it's even worth doing if it took 100 watts for 24 hours to get the sand less then 200°F then it might last an estimated 2-3 hours as it cools and was not worth doing as it would not help anyone in rapid need if heat not would it last long enough to justify the power use in an emergency etc I did a few very similar tests a few weeks ago and it did work but I was hoping for better with that said I use only a 20 watt version of the 12v silicon heaters in a cake tin with sand like you have done here
I hope you have time to answer the I do is the key thanks for the vid
I assume fine sand would work better than larger grain sands, right? Are there any better alternatives to sand though?
i would guess that fine sand would work better but i could be wrong. might be worth trying coarse grain and doing side by side tests. i don't think there is a better alternative. sand works very well and is becoming a big thing in the heat/energy storage area. maybe molten salt or something but that is not a diy thing. some people like to mention water but that only gets to 212F(100C). sand on the other hand has a high thermal tolerance. you can heat sand up to about 3090F(1700C) before it would melt.
Is there any smell when the sand gets got. For someone who has very sensitive.
hi there. nope. there is literally zero smell. all you feel is heat 🙂👍
I wonder how hot it can get with a copper strip or plate
hi. i'm working on a copper plate sand battery air heater currently. it will be the next video 🙂 sand is getting from 200 to 300F (100/200C). copper element is getting to 375F(190C). some 12v silicone pads will get that hot too (but will draw more amps)
@@desertsun02 How about using a reptile heater pad? do you think that will get hot enough to heat the sand?
Problem with sand is there is still air in between so why not use concrete with metal pipes in it so you can extract the heat by blowing air through the pipes like they do in Finland with their big sand battery? Extra advantages concrete /stone you could even bury it in the ground cause it would not be influenced by water like sand etc and you could make it any form and size. The whole point of a sand battery is make its stone mass big enough to store heat-energy for the moment you need it. That can be storing heat for just one cold night but also for storing heat for an entire winter lijke the do in Finland withe Polar Night Energy project
i've been thinking about burying some flexible copper pipe in a bucket or drum filled with sand. if the sand is hot enough it should create hot warm for a long time. i've heard from several people that actually use a wood stove to heat the sand.
The amount of electricity you have put into, does not change how much heat will come out of it overall. All you are doing is slowing it down. If you put the same amount into a space heater, you will get the same amount of heat released, but in a MUCH shorter time.
so what if you have no power?
hi. well this unit is 12v powered so you could run it on 12v battery or 12v solar panels. if that is not an option for you, i also have other sand battery heaters that are powered with candles and/or tealights. i just posted a video of a powerful sand based air heater that runs just using tealights (it even has a tealight powered fan). i also have lots of other off-grid heater videos on this channel. you may want to check the playlist area or the channels video page for those.
@@desertsun02 just subscribed, thanks
have you done the math for the thermal capacity of 50 lbs of sand? I came up with 316 watt- hours going from 32 F to 140 F, that's not much.
silicone heater is good but i think it would be more optimal to use something that gets even hotter because that would mean you can store more energy.
hi. there are definitely other types of heating elements you can use with sand batteries. i've made smaller ones with ptc elements with good results. i've also been experimenting with using fresnel lenses. those really heat the sand very fast and to very high temps. my next video may be a sand battery heated with one of those lenses. i used that particular pad because i wanted to make a sand battery that could easily be 'charged up' using either the 12v power socket of a vehicle or just two 12v 100w solar panels. but if you've got the extra power they do sell pads that get hotter. i saw one pad that was rated 392F(200C) and a couple that get to 300F
@@desertsun02 Good posts - following
The size/output of the heating element is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter whether you put in 100w in an hour or 100w in 1/2 hour. The law of conservation of energy takes effect. The more energy you put in, the more you get out. So, using a higher amperage element just means you must put more power (watts) into the sand. All resistive elements have similar efficiency. Depending on your use case, you may not want a higher amp element. A lower amp element would be better suited for solar, as it puts heat into the sand over a longer period of time.
@@jcamp359 that wasn't why i think something hotter would work better. the reason i think hotter would work better is because it should help with storing more energy into the sand battery while keeping the size basically the same.
@@oplkfdhgk yes that is correct. Practicality becomes an issue. You must put in more energy with a higher amperage element. So, I’m saying, an element twice the amperage of another element will produce twice the heat, but will consume twice the power (watts). If you are using solar as the power source, it may not be ideal to use a higher wattage element. The silicone element is 100w. That is close to ideal size for a 200w solar panel. There are 12v 150w immersion heaters that may be able to run from 200w solar. So yeah, maybe gain a little. But going to a 600w 12v immersion heater would require 1,000w of solar. And of course if you try to go from 12v to ac heating element, you lose efficiency in inverting from dc to ac. And if you don’t add additional thermal mass, all you’re accomplishing is heating the sand faster. Maybe good in some circumstances, bad in others.
Water can hold a lot more heat per the same volume than sand ever will and water can be heat up the same way.
Yea - but water can cause more damage if leaks. I used to live in a house with hot water heat and we liked it, very few - but a few leak situations.
one big advantage of sand over water is that it can be heated to much higher temps. water only goes to 212F(100C) whereas sand can be heated to 3090F(1700C) before it melts. also the issue with leaking and possible bacterial growth make it less than ideal in many situations. i'm currently experimenting with heating sand several other ways including with a fresnel lens and ptc heating elements. i'm hoping to get the sand to 800F/427C or more with the fresnel lens. imagine how long the heat would last from a pile of 800F sand. just started filming another video of a steel encased sand battery with copper plates and ptc elements. so far i've gotten the sand from 240F to 300F and was able to run a heat powered fan on the sand for over two hours after i turned the power off. may be my next video 🙂
Wouldn’t it be better to just use water to store the heat? At these temperatures there is no advantage in using sand for heat storage. Sand makes sense at >400C if I remember correctly.
hi. water has a few drawbacks including possible leaks and bacterial growth. you might have to change out the water every couple of days. with sand you can just 'set it and forget it'. you could hook this to a solar panel and run it all fall/winter long (with no maintenance, leaks or bacterial growth)
Dry out calcium chloride for long term seasonal storage? Add water to get energy back, about 0.2kWh/kg. Not very much for the effort, even with slightly more energy from water vapour. There are better chemicals, like ones for hand warmers. Then ask is two step and having iron reducing and oxidising better? Need hydrogen, not so difficult with DC power? Kind of need a clean, quiet all-in-one box She will like too. Not very big, but heavy. Better energy per volume than liquid fuels. Some countries, e.g. Germany, might have a boiler room for the apartment block making it easier. Unlike heating oil, you don't need to move the Fe far.
🎉 Wowza! How DO you think these things up??? 👍👍🧓
lots of 'focused daydreaming' mainly. sand storage is becoming a big thing in heat/energy storage these days. i wanted to make a simple heater that could be powered with 12v solar and also one that could be powered thru a 12v socket of either a car or jackary style system. it's not the strongest silicone heat pad you can buy (they sell higher heat ones) but it's one of the strongest that will run on an autos 12v socket. might help someone who is living the 'van life'. if you've got more power available you could use a silicone pad that gets hotter (some 12v ones reach 300F/150C and i saw one rated 200C/392F)
Thank you for the enhanced information. I am living in a 1990 RV on my land and still eager to learn more and more. I appreciate your "daydreams" brought into "reality" so very much. 👍 1952 Boomer🧓+🦮🐕🐩🐶🐕🦺Retired nurse living contently on 20 acres in the NW Chihuahuan Desert area in the USA