There’s not one question about telling stories this woman cannot answer. She refuses to be stumped. She’s authoritatively confident in her knowledge and gifted in explaining concepts. Her delivery of the information is enthusiastic and engaging. She’s great and I think I have to say she’s my favorite resource here on Film Courage. My focus is on writing a novel, not a screenplay, but I’ve gained a ton of knowledge and insight into Story here and most enjoyably from Shannon. Keep her videos coming please!!!
So true - I cant start writing properly til I know the full arc - the end keeps changing and so far none of them are quite right- I'll know it when I find it, so there is a lot of that meandering around target aisles at the mo! Once I have the end then I will know what to edit out! Then it will pour - its like creating the banks of the river first to contain the water and then I can direct the flow. I love the creative process.
I like her immediately. And I very much agree with her. At this point, I know I'm going to finish every script I start, so I can work on one little corner of it, like a puzzle, or plot it out beat by beat. In the beginning it is absolutely critical to get in the habit of completing scripts, so knowing the ending is much more important because it's much more helpful.
And she's DEFINITELY right about knowing the tone beforehand. Your days and nights should start sort of living in that tone in fact. Inconsistent tone throughout a story shouts amateur to any experienced reader.
Thank you Shannon and Film Courage. Halfway through your presentation an epiphany hit me so hard I started. A strong metaphor that ties my theme from old normal through to new normal just .. well .. hit me. Thanks for this fresh rush of inspiration.
I think that even a "pantsed" novel has to have at least some form of outline, even if it doesn't go into excruciating detail, or exists only in your head.
Every writer has their own method. In my opinion, there needs to be some sort of baseline idea of the ending at about the 50% mark, otherwise the thing won't get done.
For me, it's a tie between 'Once Upon A Time in Hollywood' and 'Inglorious'...not that those are my absolute favorite movies. Just really satisfying endings. 😅
I always want to ask todays modern fiction writing theorist what Indiana Jones learned, what Frodo, or Harry Potter learned. Where’s their conflicting inner and outer motivations and what’s their devastating character flaws.
@@arzabael Every character can have inner/outer conflict, flaws and change, even if it's not dramatic, or the point of the story. For example; In Raiders, Indy is very blasé about the Ark, seeing it merely as an historical artefact, but by the climax of the movie is wary of its power. We could also argue that the 'world' changes slightly from the US wanting to prevent Hitler from obtaining the arc (presumably for the propaganda rather than power of God) to hiding it away without any kind of research or discussion. Arguably, the US military should have used it as their own propaganda tool against Hitler. Indy and Marion were also forced to reconcile with one another, which they had avoided. As for flaws, Indy was actually written to be an alcoholic, and we could certainly make the case that he is self pitying. It's not really something they dwell on in the movie. He also puts his principles before the safety of others. Blowing up the Ark with an RPG would have ensured it couldn't fall into Hitler's hands. Belloq even discusses how the objects of history they are both driven by are usually fairly insignificant and are only valuable because of man's obsession with history, and serve little purpose in the grand scheme of things. While we can say that 'flat arc' characters exist, the good ones still have things at stake, flaws, and still change, it's just that their change isn't the point of the story. Raiders being a reimagining of the old serials doesn't mean it ignores all modern conventions.
@@Ruylopez778 I definitely agree with you that protagonists can have flat arcs, because stakes don’t need to necessarily involve their inner flaws. One thing people lose track of is an audiences desire to see someone really competent, being competent.
@@arzabael With respect, we are not in agreement. OP implied (in a rather simplistic and pointless argument) that writing advice is so dogmatic that stories without dramatic character arcs disprove that advice. This is obviously not the case. And you should be wary of anyone making such a simplistic narrative. My comment was about disproving your whataboutism, that not only can Indy have growth and change in perspective without it being dramatic, but in the case of a flat arc character the *world* is changed or that of the secondary character(s). And any guru will openly concede that this is possible. And that what you considered to be an example that supported your point, is - at best - debatable, and at worst just making it look like you haven't thought very hard about Raiders or any of the Indy movies. The point of writing advice is not to get into a semantic argument about what they say, but to understand the methodology behind it, and apply it as you see fit. "One thing people lose track of is an audiences desire to see someone really competent, being competent." This is an equally absurd claim you are making about "people". By all means pick and choose whatever advice you like, and apply it however you like, but there's really nothing to be gained in making up pointless accusations about writing theory being dogmatic. And frankly, someone like Shannan has a lot more credibility and wisdom to offer than UA-camrs like Shaelin, Abbie and iWriterly, who pump out regurgitated 'writing 101 list' content in order to gain subs, and therefore fodder for their latest self published project. It's these people that are wasting your time, and possibly the reason for the bizarre comments you are making. Hopefully, it's clear that I'm providing you with a more nuanced and more flexible way of responding to writing advice (and its intention) and more nuanced way of applying it. Any writing advice can be applied to Indy (for example) and doesn't disprove or discredit that advice, no matter how hard you might choose to pretend it does. Have a nice day.
What didn't you like about it? And how would you have ended it instead? I saw the movie and liked the ending, but can see why some would find it unsatisfactory.
Music, food, etc can set you in a certain place mentally when you write. Colors make me feel certain things. Soft pink sheer fabrics makes me feel softness, kindness, light and positive insights into situations. while shimmery jeweled tones of green or gold shimmery fabrics make me feel a little more exotic. Black and white combo gives me a sense of strength-in-order. This is part of something I am writing about “tone” in writing.
I just came back to this to say that literally the next video I watched after this said the polar opposite just as convincingly with as many reasons why so guys, listen to your heart.
I wouldn't put any faith in people like Abbie or Shaelin. They just regurgitate lists of advice they heard elsewhere for views and to push their own self published work. And different guests having different opinions doesn't invalidate another. If anything, the whole point of the channel is to have different guests with different perspectives.
Yes, I can't stand stories that have a weak ending or a non-ending. You can believe story is a straight line, you can think it's a spiral. But either way you need to know the endgame.
So… Let us say that there is 100 tv-series coming out every year. 90 of them will be so boring you wont even watch more than 5 minutes. 5 will be ok and you may watch the entire season feeling a bit underwhelmed and empty at the end, but it is what it is. Then 3 will perhaps be pretty good and you feel uplifted after watching the season and you got something. On a good year there will be 2 that are groundbreaking and are not only entertaining, but also tells you something new and perhaps showed a new way of telling stories. So a hit rate of 2% when applying the current theory of script writing at it finest In a commercial setting this is fine. Because if you can get people to watch enough half-boring shows you will get your money back. There is NOTHING immoral about that. It is a business. It is what it is. If you want to make interesting art you have to accept a much higher fail rate. But who wants to be a starving forgotten artist…
"So a hit rate of 2% when applying the current theory of script writing at it finest" Nope. What academics and industry experts encourage writers to write is not necessarily what ends up on screen, and to pretend that it is would be an obvious misrepresentation. What ends up on screen is mostly dictated by what executives and shareholders think will be popular based on something else, and the endless need for more 'content' to convince consumers they are getting value by having 'more choice'.
@@Ruylopez778 I am not sure I understand. Let us take Angry Birds as an example of something that makes it to the screen based on "something else" - in this case the fact that one billion people have downloaded the game to their phone and if just 5 % are stupid enough to watch the movie because they liked the game then the shareholders get their buck back. I havent seen any of the Angry Birds movies but I strongly suspect that the story follow the usual manuscript guidelines.
@@larslarsen5414 "Let us take Angry Birds as an example of something that makes it to the screen based on "something else" " No. I'm not talking about adaptions. I'm saying that writing that is some way interesting or original gets contaminated by the executive desire to copy another popular show/movie. And please don't take an exception as proof of anything. The vast majority of adaptations are not something as shallow as Angry Birds. "but I strongly suspect that the story follow the usual manuscript guidelines." It's a disingenuous argument to equate the finished product - and your subjective opinion of it - with what was written in the first place or the writer's intention. Often another writer is brought in to rewrite a project and the so the nuance or scope it had might get lost or compromised. And then focus groups and test screenings twist it into something bland and unimaginative. Of course, really great anything is uncommon. Really great music, really great restaurants, really great cars...
@@Ruylopez778 to summarize: i am saying that the tendency to follow the "script rules" is effective business but comes at a huge artistic price. You are saying that the problem is rather that otherwise good scripts are ruined by other factors.
@@larslarsen5414 You're equating 'script rules' with what actually gets made and released, are you not? Which is a half truth. It's wrong to claim that 'script rules' results in only 2% of output being truly great, if you're trying to imply some blame on 'script rules'.
She has Kilmongor's perspective completely wrong. Kilmonger believed that Wakanda should have shared its technological resources with other Black people around the world to empower/advance and protect us. NOT everyone one the planet which is what Tchalla ended up doing that was the wrong decision (aka Black Panther 2).
It's a lesson on not trusting your own kind, especially in a position of power when you learn how you been indoctrinated to do nothing about your people's problems. Killmonger was the 1st villain who proved those who benefit themselves aren't heroes, they're worse. So Black Panther by the end, didn't really have a protagonist or antagonist. They both are imperfect and came to terms that Wakanda was not built with the best of intentions.
Here is our full interview with Shannan - ua-cam.com/video/EUd5hZL62MA/v-deo.html
There’s not one question about telling stories this woman cannot answer. She refuses to be stumped.
She’s authoritatively confident in her knowledge and gifted in explaining concepts. Her delivery of the information is enthusiastic and engaging.
She’s great and I think I have to say she’s my favorite resource here on Film Courage. My focus is on writing a novel, not a screenplay, but I’ve gained a ton of knowledge and insight into Story here and most enjoyably from Shannon.
Keep her videos coming please!!!
I agree! I always click the video link whenever I see her face.
🙏🏽💚
@@ShannanEJohnson I’m flattered! You are so awesome! Keep shining bright, Ma’am 💯😀✌🏾
now we just need ender’s guide to writing a great beginning
Lol
I completely agree. I never start writing a story if I don't have at least a general idea of where and how it's going to end.
Tell that to Stephen King 🙂
J.J. Abrams needs to learn how to practice this.
@@Tommy_007Stephen King is not human.
So true - I cant start writing properly til I know the full arc - the end keeps changing and so far none of them are quite right- I'll know it when I find it, so there is a lot of that meandering around target aisles at the mo! Once I have the end then I will know what to edit out! Then it will pour - its like creating the banks of the river first to contain the water and then I can direct the flow. I love the creative process.
I like her immediately. And I very much agree with her. At this point, I know I'm going to finish every script I start, so I can work on one little corner of it, like a puzzle, or plot it out beat by beat. In the beginning it is absolutely critical to get in the habit of completing scripts, so knowing the ending is much more important because it's much more helpful.
And she's DEFINITELY right about knowing the tone beforehand. Your days and nights should start sort of living in that tone in fact. Inconsistent tone throughout a story shouts amateur to any experienced reader.
ABSOLUTELY ADORE HER! She's extremely articulate, and has a lot of experience! 🙌🏾
black panther is the perfect example of what a good story is, from plot to arc, to subplots and resolution
Ms.Johnson spittin. I need an idea of where the story is gonna go, even if it's vague at first. Great insights.
She made some great points.
Thanks for posting
Thank you!!
Because of this video, I finally figured out an ending to my story!!!
Thank you Shannon and Film Courage. Halfway through your presentation an epiphany hit me so hard I started. A strong metaphor that ties my theme from old normal through to new normal just .. well .. hit me. Thanks for this fresh rush of inspiration.
Wise and very useful advice! Thank you!
Great video. Very insightful.
She even makes me regret that I didn't outline my reply before posting.
Great video thanks
Glad you enjoyed it!
This inspired me
This was amazing! I don't know what I'm doing but I know where I'm going.
By the time I reached the end I had planned it became the midpoint and I am loving it.
I think that even a "pantsed" novel has to have at least some form of outline, even if it doesn't go into excruciating detail, or exists only in your head.
Every writer has their own method. In my opinion, there needs to be some sort of baseline idea of the ending at about the 50% mark, otherwise the thing won't get done.
Really like listening to Shannan. Probably my favorite on the channel. Thanks for the insights.
Always here for Shannan’s videos 🎉🎉🎉
I like her, very intelligent.
thanks
Cheers!
What movie has the best ending?
The dark knight rises.
Bladerunner 2049.
“Riding The Bus With My Sister”. Cinemas last great picture.
"Gattaca" my personal favorite
For me, it's a tie between 'Once Upon A Time in Hollywood' and 'Inglorious'...not that those are my absolute favorite movies. Just really satisfying endings. 😅
The thing is. No all characters in movies HAVE to change.. They of course need a goal or an obstacle, but they don’t all need to change
I always want to ask todays modern fiction writing theorist what Indiana Jones learned, what Frodo, or Harry Potter learned. Where’s their conflicting inner and outer motivations and what’s their devastating character flaws.
Shannan doesn't claim all characters have to change
@@arzabael Every character can have inner/outer conflict, flaws and change, even if it's not dramatic, or the point of the story. For example; In Raiders, Indy is very blasé about the Ark, seeing it merely as an historical artefact, but by the climax of the movie is wary of its power. We could also argue that the 'world' changes slightly from the US wanting to prevent Hitler from obtaining the arc (presumably for the propaganda rather than power of God) to hiding it away without any kind of research or discussion. Arguably, the US military should have used it as their own propaganda tool against Hitler. Indy and Marion were also forced to reconcile with one another, which they had avoided.
As for flaws, Indy was actually written to be an alcoholic, and we could certainly make the case that he is self pitying. It's not really something they dwell on in the movie. He also puts his principles before the safety of others. Blowing up the Ark with an RPG would have ensured it couldn't fall into Hitler's hands. Belloq even discusses how the objects of history they are both driven by are usually fairly insignificant and are only valuable because of man's obsession with history, and serve little purpose in the grand scheme of things.
While we can say that 'flat arc' characters exist, the good ones still have things at stake, flaws, and still change, it's just that their change isn't the point of the story. Raiders being a reimagining of the old serials doesn't mean it ignores all modern conventions.
@@Ruylopez778 I definitely agree with you that protagonists can have flat arcs, because stakes don’t need to necessarily involve their inner flaws. One thing people lose track of is an audiences desire to see someone really competent, being competent.
@@arzabael With respect, we are not in agreement. OP implied (in a rather simplistic and pointless argument) that writing advice is so dogmatic that stories without dramatic character arcs disprove that advice. This is obviously not the case. And you should be wary of anyone making such a simplistic narrative.
My comment was about disproving your whataboutism, that not only can Indy have growth and change in perspective without it being dramatic, but in the case of a flat arc character the *world* is changed or that of the secondary character(s). And any guru will openly concede that this is possible. And that what you considered to be an example that supported your point, is - at best - debatable, and at worst just making it look like you haven't thought very hard about Raiders or any of the Indy movies. The point of writing advice is not to get into a semantic argument about what they say, but to understand the methodology behind it, and apply it as you see fit.
"One thing people lose track of is an audiences desire to see someone really competent, being competent."
This is an equally absurd claim you are making about "people".
By all means pick and choose whatever advice you like, and apply it however you like, but there's really nothing to be gained in making up pointless accusations about writing theory being dogmatic. And frankly, someone like Shannan has a lot more credibility and wisdom to offer than UA-camrs like Shaelin, Abbie and iWriterly, who pump out regurgitated 'writing 101 list' content in order to gain subs, and therefore fodder for their latest self published project. It's these people that are wasting your time, and possibly the reason for the bizarre comments you are making.
Hopefully, it's clear that I'm providing you with a more nuanced and more flexible way of responding to writing advice (and its intention) and more nuanced way of applying it. Any writing advice can be applied to Indy (for example) and doesn't disprove or discredit that advice, no matter how hard you might choose to pretend it does.
Have a nice day.
The sigh at 3:25
A lousy ending can ruin a movie. I just watched “Z for Zachariah” (2015) and I couldn’t believe how it ended (no spoilers!).
What didn't you like about it? And how would you have ended it instead?
I saw the movie and liked the ending, but can see why some would find it unsatisfactory.
Music, food, etc can set you in a certain place mentally when you write. Colors make me feel certain things. Soft pink sheer fabrics makes me feel softness, kindness, light and positive insights into situations. while shimmery jeweled tones of green or gold shimmery fabrics make me feel a little more exotic. Black and white combo gives me a sense of strength-in-order. This is part of something I am writing about “tone” in writing.
I'm going to shock the world .
THINK THE END IN MIND
One of the seven habits of effective people by Mr. Steven Covy
I am DYING to know what are steps three, four, and five on that board behind her. Any one know where I can find those???
love the channel :)
Cheers! Here is the video - ua-cam.com/video/pEtWidGaif8/v-deo.html
I just came back to this to say that literally the next video I watched after this said the polar opposite just as convincingly with as many reasons why so guys, listen to your heart.
I wouldn't put any faith in people like Abbie or Shaelin. They just regurgitate lists of advice they heard elsewhere for views and to push their own self published work. And different guests having different opinions doesn't invalidate another. If anything, the whole point of the channel is to have different guests with different perspectives.
Yes, I can't stand stories that have a weak ending or a non-ending. You can believe story is a straight line, you can think it's a spiral. But either way you need to know the endgame.
Sometimes people know what they doing and most times people don’t… basically lmao
No more rules. No more rules. Anarchy!!!!!!!!
Sounds complicated, I just end my book mid sentence.
Good advice but you dont have to know the ending to make a good one or get there every writer is different
That wasn't the theme of Black Panther..it was a lot more racist. Jeez.
To who - themselves? White people weren't affected negatively by vibranium, they gained from it with people like Klaue.
So…
Let us say that there is 100 tv-series coming out every year. 90 of them will be so boring you wont even watch more than 5 minutes. 5 will be ok and you may watch the entire season feeling a bit underwhelmed and empty at the end, but it is what it is. Then 3 will perhaps be pretty good and you feel uplifted after watching the season and you got something. On a good year there will be 2 that are groundbreaking and are not only entertaining, but also tells you something new and perhaps showed a new way of telling stories.
So a hit rate of 2% when applying the current theory of script writing at it finest
In a commercial setting this is fine. Because if you can get people to watch enough half-boring shows you will get your money back. There is NOTHING immoral about that. It is a business. It is what it is.
If you want to make interesting art you have to accept a much higher fail rate. But who wants to be a starving forgotten artist…
"So a hit rate of 2% when applying the current theory of script writing at it finest"
Nope. What academics and industry experts encourage writers to write is not necessarily what ends up on screen, and to pretend that it is would be an obvious misrepresentation. What ends up on screen is mostly dictated by what executives and shareholders think will be popular based on something else, and the endless need for more 'content' to convince consumers they are getting value by having 'more choice'.
@@Ruylopez778 I am not sure I understand. Let us take Angry Birds as an example of something that makes it to the screen based on "something else" - in this case the fact that one billion people have downloaded the game to their phone and if just 5 % are stupid enough to watch the movie because they liked the game then the shareholders get their buck back.
I havent seen any of the Angry Birds movies but I strongly suspect that the story follow the usual manuscript guidelines.
@@larslarsen5414 "Let us take Angry Birds as an example of something that makes it to the screen based on "something else" "
No. I'm not talking about adaptions. I'm saying that writing that is some way interesting or original gets contaminated by the executive desire to copy another popular show/movie. And please don't take an exception as proof of anything. The vast majority of adaptations are not something as shallow as Angry Birds.
"but I strongly suspect that the story follow the usual manuscript guidelines."
It's a disingenuous argument to equate the finished product - and your subjective opinion of it - with what was written in the first place or the writer's intention. Often another writer is brought in to rewrite a project and the so the nuance or scope it had might get lost or compromised. And then focus groups and test screenings twist it into something bland and unimaginative.
Of course, really great anything is uncommon. Really great music, really great restaurants, really great cars...
@@Ruylopez778 to summarize: i am saying that the tendency to follow the "script rules" is effective business but comes at a huge artistic price. You are saying that the problem is rather that otherwise good scripts are ruined by other factors.
@@larslarsen5414 You're equating 'script rules' with what actually gets made and released, are you not? Which is a half truth.
It's wrong to claim that 'script rules' results in only 2% of output being truly great, if you're trying to imply some blame on 'script rules'.
She has Kilmongor's perspective completely wrong. Kilmonger believed that Wakanda should have shared its technological resources with other Black people around the world to empower/advance and protect us. NOT everyone one the planet which is what Tchalla ended up doing that was the wrong decision (aka Black Panther 2).
lol... she lost me when she gave black panther as a writing example..... roflmfao
It's a lesson on not trusting your own kind, especially in a position of power when you learn how you been indoctrinated to do nothing about your people's problems.
Killmonger was the 1st villain who proved those who benefit themselves aren't heroes, they're worse. So Black Panther by the end, didn't really have a protagonist or antagonist. They both are imperfect and came to terms that Wakanda was not built with the best of intentions.
But what do you know about writing with that goofy ass profile picture of yours? Yeah you'll go far on social media.
Always talking never doing, has done nothing lol