Right? That's why I think that people doing this crap are actually malicious. If they really cared they would have choosen a random saturday, not one of the supposedly best days in the person life
@@groofromtheup5719 doesn't matter how the father may have acted at a wedding. The bride having a person who triggers her at her own wedding is enough to not allow him in.
For story one: at the very least it’s good the mother was too arrogant and proud of herself that she announced it early. Can you imagine if she had kept it to herself and everyone found out about it by seeing him ON THE DAY OF THE WEDDING. Sometimes a little narcism can be a blessing.
@@kevinday7182Yup. A lot of people in medical professions should have taken another direction in life. Ten years ago I was hit by a car and my lawyer had a laundry list of specialists for me to see during the settlement process, which included seeing a psychologist to see how my being off work affected me etc. (it's part of the process) So, I got in there and the psychologist was talking about the accident and my work and suddenly, out of nowhere, he asked if I was sexually abused as a child. I was absolutely stunned; I think my jaw hit the floor. It was completely unrelated. inappropriate and I was really offended, so I stood up, told him NO, and walked out. My lawyer told me the guy couldn't figure out what the problem was with him asking that question. Moron.
"She's never trampled boundaries to this extent before". Yeah, enough said. She was holding this ace up her sleeve for this exact moment. A typical case of 'I know best and i also have this certificate to back my claim'. I've made it my career to be involved in drama. Who cares if the fantasy in my head doesn't work in reality. Update: "She just thought that she knew better". HA, called it.
Someone should have broken the news to her that nobody died and made her God. Consent matters in relationships. If a psychologist forgets that basic fact, what hope is there for the rest of us?
Why do people always uses weddings to pull this crap? Like, the idea of forcing a reconciliation is already evil, but why at a wedding? It's supposed to be an happy moment, why would you want to ambush someone with something this complicated on that day?
Because weddings are a crucible-test. Trial by fire. This is where a lot of peoples' true colours are revealed. Mom has shown hers. Thankfully OP has also shown his shiny spine. Though I'm not convinced mom has faced sufficient consequences for her actions.
Because a wedding is the perfect area to ambush your victim. It's too pricey, too ceremonous and a special day for them to allow to be ruined so easily so predators count on their victim being too passive and accepting anything to 'keep the peace' on what's supposed to be the happiest day of their life.
Because they count on the big social Scene to Force people to accept atrocious behaviour. They think the pressure of the crowd will cow others into submission.
1st story: NTA. How did the mom think this would go ? That Sarah would reunite with her abuser and thank the mom and name her children named after her?
Thank you. It seems like the STB-MIL really over stepped given Sara's visceral aversion to her father. A revulsion which is not associated with simple abandonment issues.
But life is like, totally a Hallmark movie isn't it?! Oh this makes my blood boil! If anybody dredged up my abusive piece of shit pig of a father from the ass crack of the ether to "yay, happy reunion" I really couldn't say who would get got first. There is a REASON when kids go no contact with parents with such impunity. And this woman is a psychologist to boot? How many bloody malpractice lawsuits does she have under her belt for stunts like this?
Story 1- I haven’t spoken to my father for 30yrs. I tried when I was younger. He wasn’t interested so, now I’m not and never will be. I’d be pissed if someone tried to push reconciliation. Good riddance!
Right! You don't award disrespect with further favor. She was out of line and changed the conditions of the friendship at the party. She should learn to handle her liquor better.
Story one: OP's mother needs to learn that, sometimes, a child-parent reunion can be *detrimental.* I mean, Sara has mentioned *not feeling safe showing up at her own wedding just because she didn't want him knowing about her life.* 😬 Story two: *Oooooooh... That's painful.* They don't even like each other, sure. But what an awful way to put someone down. This makes me think that she had been asked this question too many times, chose to finally blow up in a drunken fit and damage the friendship in the process. The guy having self-esteem and anger issues just makes the whole situation that much more painful to listen to. *What a crapshow.* 😬
Mommy isn't going to learn anything. Because she's faced no real consequences for her awful behaviour. So she cried some crocodile tears and apologized a bunch. So what? Talk is cheap! Let's see her take some action to put her money where her mouth is. I hope OP and Sara are very guarded around her.
@@DrownedInExile According to the update, it's forgiven, *but not forgotten.* Any other attempt at reconciliation between Sara and her estranged father is going to be met with consequences more severe than this one (which, of course, got revoked because the whole family apologized.) And I believe that includes Sara's brother, who *is* in contact with the guy.
"Anger issues" is a cudgel that is used to beat reasonable men with. He didn't hit her for her clear insult. He didn't even blow up at her. He just left a situation where he was being personally attacked. That was a VERY RESTRAINED reaction. People need to understand that they don't get to verbally attack, insult and belittle people, and then act like even the most minor reaction makes them the victim. You aren't the victim. You are the agressor!
Story 2: NTA - Never tolerate disrespect. If she had actually apologized or shown some amount of supplication, like "Oh wow, that came out sounding way worse than I wanted it to," then maybe. Dudes out here getting told they ain't shit every flippin' day. Last thing any guy needs is that kind of energy from someone who's supposed to be their friend. There's a saying out there about not biting the hand that feeds you. For these circumstances, you don't act like an asshat to your ride. I mean, if you act like a jackass to a bus driver, they'll throw you off the bus.
My friend was SAd by their dad for about a decade. The only way they would ever want their dad at a function was as a target for some very drawn out [Demonetized] revenge.
I don't think the second OP is the AH at all. If Tina is grown enough to run her mouth and get drunk, she's grown enough to find her own way home. OP is better off without her, although I do support his journey of self-improvement.
Story 2: I can really relate to OP. I had a really good female best friend once, and we were with like 5 of our friends. And one of them mention something about me and her going out. She responding like it was thee worst thing that you could ever say to her. The look of disgust on her face by the very suggestion of us going out and her saying that I would be the last guy she would ever considering going out with, and a few other things she said (none were nice about me) was thee most hurtful thing anyone had ever said/done to me. It made me feel so small and I just wanted to leave and cry. I never thought of her in a romantic way because we want different things out of life. Our friendship was never the same after that day. And we haven't talked in years now
I'm on the other side of that coin, i have a male best friend that i REALLY don't want to sleep with, nevermind date. Now to be clear he is the verry different from OP in that he is verry succesfull with woman. Now i've never made a face and said eww no, but i do feel like that because it feels inturnaly like sleeping with your brother or dad. It's not because i think my friend is superficially unatractive, but because it just feels and sounds so wrong. We would also never work, but i do get why you cut contact with your "friend" doing that sort of thing especially in public is vile. Just saying this because i know that can be a real hit to your self-esteem, but this not about being unactractive it's about her feeling you two just don't match at all so she put you in a NO box in her mind.
I am so sorry for what you went through. I have been through a situation like that, my best friend was a guy and he was gay. When somebody who didn't know that implied that we would be a perfect couple, my "best friend" went on telling everyone how he found the female body disgusting; including female bodily functions and that boobs looked and felt weird and so on. The thing was that I used to bring him with me shopping for clothes etc since he had real good taste. I felt absolutely useless AND worthless, and I dropped him as my friend soon after. We had known each other for 17 years. I'm still upset when I think about what he said, _that Man HATES women on a level I've never seen before ever._
This is why I get concerned when people think therapy will solve everything. A LOT of therapist have their own personal problems and should not be giving other people advice. This one does not listen and is a big boundry stomper because she thinks she is special because she is a "therapist".
My assumption when dealing with ANY mental health professional is that they got into the field to better understand why they themselves are so messed up.
She definitely became a therapist just because “she knows better” and she wanted a legitimate “proof” of it. Like people becoming surgeons to give a go to their god complex.
I actually just found out there’s a type of narcissist, called an empathetic narcissist. They get jobs like therapist, psychiatrist, psychologist, etc., to give crap advice to their patients; to feed off of their patient’s misery. 😩
Story two: In a world of Uber and having other friends, it doesn't strand someone at a party if you leave. Don't wanna be left? Don't be a butt to your ride. And, funny that she gets mad because of the completely predictable results of her actions. Like, she legitimately expected him to let her treat him like crap and still be her platonic bestie like nothing happened.
I dont think op did anything wrong by leaving her or not finding a ride for her, but he should have told her he was leaving. I doubt it was just their close friends at the party and most sa happens with people you are acquainted with. If she made choices at a party assuming she had a ride, it could have gotten bad. Op seems like a decent guy, if something had happened he probably would have felt guilty. Ubers aren't always available everywhere. She may not have money on her. It's also possible that all their close friends could have left before she realized he had. He could have just said find your own way back or something. He wouldn't even have to be nice about it. For his own peace of mind, if nothing else. If you make plans with someone, then the least you should do is give them a heads up if things change so they can plan an alternate course of action.
When I was in jr high, there was a popular mean game, where person A would ask person B (in front of person C) “B, what would you think if C liked you?” B would then react with revulsion, and the bystanders would laugh. I thought it was juvenile, even for 6th grade. One day B was one of my good friends, and I was C. I was so disappointed in him, that he would not only participate, but accept me as the butt of bullying. I wasn’t mad, I just never spoke to him again, nor within a year all 18 of the other students in my grade (very small school.) In the post, it wasn’t just about the friend’s cruel rejection, it was about her assumption that everyone would accept OP as the correct object for bullying. As adults. I don’t see repairing that.
S2: her safety is her own problem when she insults the driver. Nta OP i would've even followed up with "i wouldn't sleep with her even if we were the last 2 people alive"
I'm guessing mother's experience with reconciliation is where the person she was seeing wanted to reconcile, and got the idea that everyone really wants to reconcile even if they don't admit it.
@@rogerrabbit80 my thoughts as well. Mom's experiences are only with those seeking reunification. She is still a massive idiot, to the point where as someone else here mentioned; I feel sorry for those that she has harmed in her professional career.
Story Two: Drunk words are sober thoughts. I've had a close male friend since my freshman year too and if I said that sort of thing in front of him, even while drunk, you'd better believe that I'd my walking my own ass home.
I literally went nocontact with my elderly grandmother for forcing me into engagement with my rapist father via speaker phone after I'd repeatedly warned her about that sort of thing in the past. She died never having gotten to speak to me again & I do not regret that. Forcing engagement with an abuser is horrendous, & the mom in that has no business in the mental healthcare field with that sort of blatant disregard for boundaries.
They think uninviting Mom was too drastic?! That was the nicest response in my opinion. I would have told her that if either she or FIL showed up, she would be banned from their and any future children's lives forever. Let her clean up her own mess. Last story: I don't understand the "you're my friend so I don't find you attractive" line. I have male and female friends, I'm straight but that doesn't stop me from noticing that many of them are quite attractive. It doesn't mean I have feelings for them but pretending someone isn't attractive because they're a friend is weird.
In my country we also have a saying: don’t bite the hand that feeds you. If you are reliant on someone doing you a favor, then don’t insult them. Glad they talked it out, though.
Op has already proved to be a good partner with his swift decisive action after his mother overstepped a very clear and obvious boundary that they told her (multiple times at) not to cross And anyone who disagrees with it... well too bad you can't come either
It’s always aggravating when people decide to force a reconciliation between estranged parties. Rarely is it based completely on genuine concern for the well-being of those involved. The majority of the time it's because the forcer wants to be the hero of someone else’s story, the catalyst that fixed something they think should no longer be broken. Real kindness is knowing that not every bridge needs to be rebuilt, and it is not up to them to decide if/when it should be.
S1 Hot take: Huge NTA. Mom was WAY out of line, there has to be consequences. If OP can't set and enforce hard boundaries against toxic behaviour, on one of the most important days of his life, it will forever cast a shadow over his marriage. But if he shows his shiny spine, his wife-to-be will always remember that. The update: Sara is wrong. OP's mom is the one tearing the family apart, not her father. Mom can apologize till the cows come home, but talk is cheap. I'm not convinced she's faced enough consequences that she won't pull this crap again. OP and Sara need to be very guarded around her.
Glad for Story 1 positive update! Story 2, I would have told Tina I was leaving to give her the option of finding another ride or leaving with OP. Drunk people often lose all filters.
If mom is a licensed psychologist then she absolutely, 100% should have known better. More than anybody else on this planet she should have KNOWN not to do this. She has absolutely no excuse.
No matter what you decide about Mom's betrayal, uninvite Sara's father and just get security at the wedding to keep your wife's father out. Enjoy your wedding.
Unfortunately, some people simply don't take you seriously when you explicitly tell them not to do XYZ. And it's only after they get hit with consequences that they realize that you were serious.
It's because they think you're joking. People are kinda dense that unless you make it abundantly clear, and threatening in a sort of way. It will fly over their heads, and believe themselves to know better than you.
I know its not a popular opinion but op is the ah in story 2. Not for leaving her. Not even for not finding her another ride, but for not telling her. Uber may not have been available, or she may not have had money. Her friends could have left before she realized she needed a ride. Op didnt have to be nice about it, but letting her know to find her own ride before she got too drunk to make those decisions is the responsible thing to do. Op isnt responsible for her happiness or safety, but he should have told her when he decided not to give her a ride
I think uninviting the mom is equal payment for her dropping a surprise invite of someone she'd been explicitly told not to. God, the fact that she's got psych credentials with reunification experience makes all this hit so much more messed up
#1 - Mom’s got a god complex and thinks she’s a hero for swooping in and “fixing” things. I’m sure everyone telling you it’s too far think she had good intentions. They’re wrong. Her intentions were to fix it and be praised. I bet she was glowing snuggly when she announced it. This was a massive overstep, was none of her business, and she thinks she’s a victim here and is rallying flying monkeys to defend her when it’s none of their business either. NTA and I hope you two can have a wonderful time without them.
All right I just want to say this as my judgment before the update to the first story the thing I find so shocking about the Mother-in-law in this situation being Op's mother is the fact that she's a licensed psychologist that has had years in the field knowing that you can't just make a parent and a child settle their differences and just make it a water over the bridge situation overnight it takes a lot of hard work and she knows that so the thing is why would she break those boundaries knowing that in her amounts of experience in that field knowing that it's not that easy cuz the thing that I find scary is very unprofessional that was and how much trouble that could get her in if she just openly does this with all her patience without their consent because anybody knows if you were to do that against the patients own set of boundaries that they set up between you and them professionally and if you were to do something kind of like what the mother did yeah the way I see it you would be in a lot of hot water for it maybe that's just me sorry my sentence sounds like it's a little bit all over the place I'm a little tired and it's been a long morning for me
Dude I know right like I agree with you like it makes me wonder that she breaks boundaries like this before because I know some psychologists are famously known for sometimes I guess getting through people very quickly and thinking that they can fix things overnight just like that to make their jobs less overwhelming but you know we don't really know the mom too well but even then I wouldn't trust her to be my psychologist or therapist
@@randomusername3873 Psychologist, not psychiatrist. A psychiatrist is a medical doctor and can prescribe medication. A psychologist, while they may have a doctorate, is not a medical doctor.
She can't have been a very good psychologist. Like any industry, there are good ones and bad ones, and if she so confidently cross this boundary, what will she do when there are grandchildren in the mix? I would never trust a person who did what she did.
Story 1: I'm glad they were able to change the date and have their wedding unencumbered by the estranged father. My spidey senses are telling me that there's more to the estrangement than we've been told, but it doesn't matter. She set a firm boundary and MIL totally violated it. If I were in her position, hell would freeze over before I'd be able to trust her again. Story 2: I didn't see a mention of it, but I can tell you as one from a family of alcoholics, that truth comes out when someone is drunk and inhibitions are down.
Second story: OP didn't owe his "friend" a ride home. Especially after the way she acted. What's with all y'all people having this notion you can't just leave people who act a fool. I'd have left her weather she had a friend or not. You don't bite the hand that feeds you, or in this case gives you a ride.
Technically, OP was just acting out of his own self interests. However, most adults aim to behave in a respectful and caring manner to the people they consider friends. Treating a friendship (with a woman or man) as a battle ground where one person is "correct" and too bad for the other person, is not illegal. No one owes anyone...blah...blah. OP is, 100%, a garbage friend. No denying that. What other petty slights might cause him to abandon a friend? What about a male friend who is successful with a female OP has his eyes on. Leave him because the woman is nit interested in OP and that hurts his feelings?Throwing tantrums and acting out of emotional pain is toxic brhavior. OP's bx may seem fair if OP does not care about being a mature man of quality character. OP can hang out with "friends" as immature as he is and wind up getting left at a club and robbed. How OP treats others should depend upon the quality of life one is interested in having, not on where his emotions blow him.
@@One.DeSanctis. Curious why you're so concerned with how OP treated his friend while barely mentioning how he was treated. His friend was in no danger; other friends were there. She was just inconvenienced and embarrassed. And, seriously. Stop with the whole making up a new scenario and judging OP based on the scenario you made up. And, you should treat others based on how they treat you. If they treat you badly, ditch them.
Yeah when to come to family estrangement either you get it or you don't. Even if OP's mother intention is good she really shouldn't forced OP's wife to do that.
The party story To those redditors who inevitably called OP ta and think that drunk women should be absolved of all responsibility if it was a bloke drunk that said something similar about a women you lot would be rinsing him, being drunk is no excuse.
Nobody is absolving her of responsibility, just pointing out that leaving a woman at a party -- whether you know the people there or not -- is putting her in danger, and that's not okay.
_Psychologists aren't always right. And it is extremely inappropriate & unprofessional to "analyze" friends and family since pre existing biases always exists._ The mom crossed a lot of boundaries.
Hey, Lost Genre! Another good one! I actually prefer listening to your stories over reading them on Reddit, because you cut through all the crap and repetition. And you don’t leave any cliffhangers! Please keep up the good work.
Story 1: I am currently LC with my dad and plan to go NC with him after I graduate and if my MIL did this to me I would have never spoken to her again u never know why a person goes NC for me it’s because my dad is abusive and it is detrimental to my mental and physical health to be around him and even though he was only mentally abusive he has abused his step children physically in the past so why on earth would I want a man like him in my life let alone at my wedding? I honestly wonder how good the MIL is at her job she must damage so many of her patients psyche
Not the a****** having these boundaries in place for a reason this person was excluded from your wife's life because they caused her endless amounts of trauma and heartache now if your mother being a psychologist can't wrap her brain around the need for boundaries she obviously is not very good at her job
ok, so i story one..the guy has known his fiancé for sooooo many years late teens or something so his mom should have known what the girls dad put her through and as a psychologist knew how this would affect her long term, BUT still though she knew best and invited her abuser to their wedding...mom must have been a shitty psychologist. just saying maybe she was a cps worker which would explain her stupidity about the situation
First Story: A family was torn apart by a father not being there in his daughter's life to raise her? I'm thinking there's something worse than that involved that OP's mother and others don't know about.
It's bad enough when someone uses their +1 to invite an unwanted guest, but since Mom and Dad are both coming she was adding an extra guest to someone else's wedding. Story 2, rage gains are still gains, push out the fears
Story 1 NTA: as someone who is estranged from my narcissistic parents, if my future in-laws pulled this stunt they would be NC as well. Thank God my in-laws are wonderful people
Forensic Psychology and Applied Behavior here.. Mom is off her rocker!! I don't care WHAT degree she has and what her area of expertise is, SHE KNEW BETTER!!! It's too drastic because THEY weren't the ones hurt by their father!! I could not look at that woman for a very long time... She KNEW but did not care and that's selfish!! Why the hell would she want to unfy at her damn wedding?! Happiest day of her life and the mom thinks that's when she should cry and be depressed!
First Story: Mil/Mom is a REALLY BIG AH for what she did. This is a Good example of I only had good intentions, The road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions. The worst part about Betrayal is that it ALWAYS comes from friends or family with good intentions from there point of view and get sad and angry that what they did backfired. Fiance brother is also a REALLY BIG AH he is going to get it Bad when his time comes. I feel sorry for Fiance & OP
The mom pretty much put her daughter-in-law's life at risk and expected to get a pat on the back for it. She's a psychologist. Doesn't she know the term "retraumatization"?
Story 2: NTA, really speaks of op's friend's (hopefully ex now)character even after sobering up they didn't even realize how their gesture come across and how their comment made op feel. Also, there is a saying "kid and drunk people always say the truth" (Los borrachos y los niños siempre dicen la verdad) so they invertible told op how they really feel about them. 15:00 Lo cortez no le quita lo valiente, my family usually uses this saying as a way to say “you did your best, even though you messed up” , kinda neat to hear it on a different context.
someone else pointed out that maybe she's been asked this question too many times so she snapped in a bad way especially with being drunk too. i've had male friends who we've both responded the exact same way sober.
@@savanna8103 I get that there is that social stigma in which both a man and a woman can be friends, and there must be some sort of romantic intention between them. And, also, I'm aware of the frustration that op's friend must feel when everybody tells them that they must be in a relationship to be fulfilled, but why attack op? Furthermore, the way she did a double-take after saying that, it came across that she was aware of how they came. So the fact that she didn't apologize to Op right away or during the phone call, instead trying to put the blame on op, kinda makes her the AH. In addition, I'm in the mindset of not staying where you are not welcome.
I disagree with the 2nd story. I’m leaning to EAA. Sure, it came out as if she was being rude and maybe it was just that. Leaving someone drunk and stranded is a big deal though. It can really leave a person vulnerable to all sorts of bad situations. By all means dump them as a friend, ask for an apology, tell them you want them to make it up to you ... whatever. But we don’t know if the friend was being dramatic because she was drunk and sees her friend like family etc. It’s very open to interpretation. We do know that going back on your word isn’t what a friend does, even when upset.
Story 1: Mom was an asshole and probably wanted to be the hero of the family and brought back old, painful stings Sarah shouldn’t have needed. I understand big time of what she was dealing with and it would hurt me deeply if my in laws did the same thing. Story 2: Honestly, for her to say that and act like she was “joking” was pretty cruel and I think leaving her was justified. Granted if OP left her on the side of a road in the middle of the night, it would be a dick move. But I would’ve done the same thing if my sister/friend said that in a harsh way. NTA
Story 2: Disagree, mainly because *I'd* probably react with disgust to such a question, too. Not everyone's straight. She backpedaled awkwardly when she realized his feelings were hurt, but she was also *drunk.* And, seriously, he's no attracted to her, why was he so offended? OP needs to chill.
@@randomusername3873 But she didn't *actually.* She said eww, no, and swore. She didn't say anything about his appearance, personality, or habits. His problem was entirely with her *tone,* which can be hard to manage *when drunk.*
@@brigidtheirish All being drunk does is remove one's filter. These are her actual, unfiltered thoughts about OP in regards to such a question. She made the conscious choice to drink to the extent that her filter was essentially removed and then answered in a way that signified that she was actually revolted by OP. No one anywhere wants to have someone say "Ugh ew! Fucking no!" as a response to them. It's a confidence killer. Also, look at her response to OP having a reasonable reaction to her words. OP did not want to be near her and left the party. Tina's response to this? 1. Called OP an asshole. 2. Told OP to get over himself and that she was just kidding. 3. Ignoring OP until OP was the one to reach out and apologize first. She's the offending party SHE should be the one to reach out and apologize.
@@thefriendlyfool 1. Called him an asshole for dipping out on her *without a word of warning* when he was her *ride.* 2. I already said she back-pedaled awkwardly. 3. Because he acted like a dick.
S2. I don't want to call op an a-hole, but it's pretty clear he got but hurt oclvwr being rejected by a woman he claims he doesn't like. It really shouldn't of bother him that much considering they have a mutual feeling about not being attractive to each other.
Gosh I am glad Sara has someone like OP. She has no one else in the world but she has a wonderful man who's proven he will endlessly fight for her, and thank goodness for that.
If I'm sarah, I have all kinds of questions about how much to include OP's mom in her life. What can you tell her? How much can you trust her not to go behind your back again? How much you want her involved with your future children? Mom the psychologist opened about five psychological cans of worms here
Like I feel bad for OP in story 2. But at the same time as person who was CONSTANTLY asked over and over again for months if I like one of my ex friends until I straight up left the friends altogether... I kinda get where the girl is coming from. Sometimes you gotta be dramatic to get your point across. It honestly sounds like she was at her limit.
The Tina story To those saying "she didn't mean it she was drunk" the ancient Romans have a reply: "In vino veritas" It's because she's drunk that it's pretty obvious she did mean it OP, this should be a slap in the face and a wake-up call. Your "friend" gave you the gift of finally being straight about something. If you need to get into better physical shape, this is a push to do that. You need to work on your life, get busy working on your life. If you have the kind of friends one collects when one has low self-esteem, (Tina) this is a call to drop them
Yeah, they don't call alcohol 'liquid courage' for nothing. Yes, I agree with the other thing you said, too. Sometimes a comment from an insensitive AH can be a blessing in disguise; as much as an insult can hurt, it can sometimes give you a push to somehow want to better yourself in a certain area in your life (not that every time someone insults you it means there's actually something wrong with you or there's something you need to fix).
@@whitneybennett4857 it seems like women love to use the "oh, she was drunk, she didn't mean it" excuse, to avoid taking accountability of their actions.....
You mean a female psychologist was unprofessional and incompetent? But arrogant enough to decide she knew better? How unsurprising hahaha. Who could’ve seen this coming except for every man alive?
My father was physically abusive and my mom and step dad were emotionally and mentally. I’ve very open and unashamed about all of it. It’s just something I survived. Some people aren’t. My siblings aren’t. That’s okay. They don’t have to explain their trauma. And in my experience therapists like hers are the worst. They NEVER care about the children, just an idea in their heads.
"talk to you mom and hear her out" OP told mom what SHE needed to hear. Mom is an arrogant busybody and needs to learn a lesson about smstating in her place. Hire security to keep mom and FIL out
I know it’s a cliché to pull the “if the genders were reversed” argument but the comments on the second post would be noticeably different if it was OP that reacted the way Tina did, especially the comments saying that he should’ve still given her a ride.
Absolutely, all the White Knights came out on this one. I'm quite annoyed that OP apologized to Tina. He did absolutely nothing wrong. All he's done is shown himself to be weak.
Fair enough. However, the comments should have advised OP to get therapy to learn how to regulate his emotions over his low self-esteem. Regardless of the gender, ages and the blood-alcohol level or the individuals involved, it is important to honor commitments to others where their safety is at risk. OP would be the AH if the "friend" got rolled and dumped in a ditch after trying to stumble home drunk. It is a petty move to punish someone you consider a "friend" because they are not interested in dating you. What if OP's friend was a man who was attracted to him? Would OP's gay panic be enough to abandon a drunk friend at a party? OP should learn to make choices guided by logical decisions. People cannot force/feign an attraction to someone and should not be required to tap dance around eggshells to protect the ego of someone else. Men should not be expected to pander to a female platonic friend. ETA: I agree with you, mostly. Accept, I believe acting petty does not excuse dumping a drunk friend in a dangerous locale. OP sounds super sensitive. Why get angry if OP does not want to bone?
@@DrownedInExile nothing weak about refusing to be insulted. What's the advice we're given as children? Walk away. In this case, he drove away. The girl had ways of getting home. You can blame the booze, the atmosphere, or the conversation, but she didn't think twice about her response. That is telling of any friendship.
@One DeSanctis was she actually in a dangerous locale? Or surrounded by mutual friends. If the onus on OP was to babysit his drunk friend, could thar onus be on every male and female friend that was there as well? How do single adult women who go out get around? I believe there's ubers,lyfts, and taxis for that. I was always told, "Do not bite the hand that feeds." she was disrespectful to the person she "depended" on to get home. Maybe she should have thought about that before acting the way she did. If using alcohol as an excuse for her behavior, what other behaviors are we willing to excuse due to alcohol. If she acts this way because of "alcohol," then maybe she should lay off the booze. All I see in this post in an adult female who isn't being held accountable, and a man who was told by reddit to be a doormat, when he actually has a spine. However I do believe therapy would help both parties here, for the guy, especially so he will realize he was actually in the right. This is coming from a former doormat in which therapy helped me greatly.
Story 1. That was very nice to allow the mother to come to the wedding,after pulling that one, she should have known better, even to know a wedding is not the place. I would have re- invited her the day of the wedding,so she could experience stress as well. Story 2 Is she really a friend,or just wants a ride every time,they have the same friend group. That was totally despicable,he must have felt humiliated,aghast,insulted. It was only natural to get away,why should he care about her,she clearly showed she did not care about him. Another friend /family/ taxi/ uber,would have got her home.What she said would be enough to end the friendship,as friends do not behave in that fashion.
Story 1: OP tried to talk to his mother and she refused to listen. I would not only not invite her to the wedding, I would go NC. And have some hefty friends on hand to keep FIL away.
Let's ignore the fact mom invited an unwelcomed guest, an important life event is NOT the time to heal relationships. Maybe had she organised a coffee date to see one another and mend things it could've be forgivable, giving him info he is not welcomed to know is a no granny rights for me...
MIL needs to but out! She thinks she knows best and is willing to upset Sara , why? To prove a point. That she’s right. Hard to believe she was a good therapist.
Story 2 Op is the AH he agreed to be their DD, you don't back out in the middle of the party (just because you felt rejection from someone you had eyes for) and not tell the person your driving home, that you left.
NTA for leaving her at the party. She a big girl and can get her own way home after insulting and disrespecting you. She wasn’t joking because it’s not a joke if no one laughs, then it’s just mean and bullying. But honestly, if anyone thought so little of me to say stuff like that in front of friends, I’d find someone else to be a friend because they certainly aren’t. So as a follow up, one of her friends told her she sort of went overboard with it which mean she was soft peddling her which means you read her exactly right. No one says stuff that harshly to someone’s face in front of mutual friends that has any respect for you. The fact she BS about her safety when you were with mutual friends further shows her trying to cover for herself.
Not the A hole he dosnt get to opt out of being a dad and then get to come to his daughters wedding and I'm assuming want to take the glory of walking her down the Isle your mum was our of line to brake your one boundary as it generally takes a lot for a child to cut ties with a parent even bad/abusive ones.
Story 2: OP is SO not the AH. That friend has some nerve to tell him that 'she's still mad at him'. She's not the victim! If anyone has the right to feel upset and mad, it's OP, not her. She insulted him and hurt his feelings and then expected to get away with it with a 'Oops my bad that came out wrong'. Then when confronted with the consequences of her actions, instead of acting like an adult and getting her own ride home (order an uber, a taxi, ask another friend for a ride ect.. c'mon girl it's the 21st century!) she made the choice to be the helpless victim. The fact that OP has anger and self esteem issues only makes it worse.
OP's MIL is a retired psychologist? I'm not buying it unless was forced into retirement because she's so awful at it. Or maybe she worked as part of the office staff at a mental health clinic and just told people outside of work that she was a psychologist. Her ideas about grief and depression are so off the mark that it's unreal.
Sounds like OP mom found out the meaning of: "Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes." And honestly, not only would mommy be banned from the wedding, I would not even let her see any grand kids if I was OP. She would probably try to introduce them the the Estranged FiL behind their back. Then spew sim BS about them needed a relationship with their grand father.
Story 1 - I wouldn't assume that everyone that's a trained psychologist is actually healthy themselves. I knew too many screwed up people that majored in that in college to automatically trust. MIL was out of line, and it's great that OP 100% had his wife's back. Story 2 - For a lot of people, alcohol is like a truth serum, and it seems like it is for Tina. OP saw what she really thinks of him. I think it's time he finds a true friend as his bestie. Tina learned not to expect your ride to stick around after you insult them. While it would have been polite to let her know he was leaving, she was around other friends, so NTA.
Uninviting 'Mom' was NOT an overreactoion OP has given his Mom clear, firm boundaries and Mom smashed them because SHE wanted to. She put her wants over her STBDiL's profound needs and preferences. NTA. Hope stays firm with his mom. Kudos on him for protecting Sarah!
Second story not the a-hole. It's not like he abandoned her at a party where she was the only person there that he knew and she knew him. They had plenty of friends there as well.
It sounds like the father was some degree of abusive. That a psychologist would try to “reunite” a person with somebody who abused them as a vulnerable child is disgusting.
I think Op's mother's "retirement" was involuntary. I don't think a person with this mindset would have a successful psychology practice and might have had to settle one too many lawsuits to keep her license.
The fact that OP’s mom was a psychologist in the past with that attitude of ignoring a person’s “no” concerns me...
@@Xerame506 hopefully you reported their behavior.
Something tells me mom was “suggested” to retire from psychology early if you catch my drift.
@@Xerame506 - This is why I’m glad it’s easier than ever to scout doctors before I commit to one.
She may be a dark empath. Those ones thrive in false empathy and cause situations like this just to get high off people's pain.
She is toxic and hateful. Op's mom doesn't need to apologize she needs to leave OP and fiance alone!
Even IF Sara 'needed' this reunion with her father - it probably shouldn't happen AT HER WEDDING!
Right? That's why I think that people doing this crap are actually malicious. If they really cared they would have choosen a random saturday, not one of the supposedly best days in the person life
They think the offended party won't make a scene because of the event.
@@groofromtheup5719 doesn't matter how the father may have acted at a wedding. The bride having a person who triggers her at her own wedding is enough to not allow him in.
Agreed.
@@One.DeSanctis. The bride was the offended party I was referring to.
For story one: at the very least it’s good the mother was too arrogant and proud of herself that she announced it early. Can you imagine if she had kept it to herself and everyone found out about it by seeing him ON THE DAY OF THE WEDDING. Sometimes a little narcism can be a blessing.
We got plenty of stories like they and the victim left the wedding then and there
I can just imagine the boundary over stepping she will try when they have children.
And op's mom was a retired psychologist. I wonder how many of her patients she fucked up.
Oh man, the drama, the fighting, sheesh! Small blessing mom got a lil too full of herself.
@@kevinday7182Yup. A lot of people in medical professions should have taken another direction in life. Ten years ago I was hit by a car and my lawyer had a laundry list of specialists for me to see during the settlement process, which included seeing a psychologist to see how my being off work affected me etc. (it's part of the process) So, I got in there and the psychologist was talking about the accident and my work and suddenly, out of nowhere, he asked if I was sexually abused as a child. I was absolutely stunned; I think my jaw hit the floor. It was completely unrelated. inappropriate and I was really offended, so I stood up, told him NO, and walked out. My lawyer told me the guy couldn't figure out what the problem was with him asking that question. Moron.
OP: "Don't do the thing"
Mom: I won't do the thing
*Mom does the thing*
OP: You're banned from the wedding!
Mom: Why? I thought I was helping! 🤦♂️
sorry for the spam, this is why i wish youtube could still play if the screen is off.
"She's never trampled boundaries to this extent before".
Yeah, enough said. She was holding this ace up her sleeve for this exact moment. A typical case of 'I know best and i also have this certificate to back my claim'. I've made it my career to be involved in drama. Who cares if the fantasy in my head doesn't work in reality.
Update: "She just thought that she knew better". HA, called it.
So she trampled boundaries to a lesser extent before. She was building up to it.
Someone should have broken the news to her that nobody died and made her God. Consent matters in relationships. If a psychologist forgets that basic fact, what hope is there for the rest of us?
Estrangement is no one's business. I wish people would understand that. Don't stick your nose where it doesn't belong.
Absolutely. I don’t understand why people think they know what’s best for the person that’s been wronged.
Why do people always uses weddings to pull this crap?
Like, the idea of forcing a reconciliation is already evil, but why at a wedding? It's supposed to be an happy moment, why would you want to ambush someone with something this complicated on that day?
Because weddings are a crucible-test. Trial by fire. This is where a lot of peoples' true colours are revealed. Mom has shown hers. Thankfully OP has also shown his shiny spine. Though I'm not convinced mom has faced sufficient consequences for her actions.
@@DrownedInExile weddings seem to make people loose their minds, it's so weird
Hallmark movies probably
Because a wedding is the perfect area to ambush your victim. It's too pricey, too ceremonous and a special day for them to allow to be ruined so easily so predators count on their victim being too passive and accepting anything to 'keep the peace' on what's supposed to be the happiest day of their life.
Because they count on the big social Scene to Force people to accept atrocious behaviour. They think the pressure of the crowd will cow others into submission.
"my mum is a retired psychologist"
well, it sounds like she wasn't any good anyway.
1st story: NTA.
How did the mom think this would go ?
That Sarah would reunite with her abuser and thank the mom and name her children named after her?
Thank you. It seems like the STB-MIL really over stepped given Sara's visceral aversion to her father. A revulsion which is not associated with simple abandonment issues.
But life is like, totally a Hallmark movie isn't it?! Oh this makes my blood boil! If anybody dredged up my abusive piece of shit pig of a father from the ass crack of the ether to "yay, happy reunion" I really couldn't say who would get got first. There is a REASON when kids go no contact with parents with such impunity. And this woman is a psychologist to boot? How many bloody malpractice lawsuits does she have under her belt for stunts like this?
Mom probably thought DIL would be happy to get the chance to reconcile with DIL's father.
The moment i heard reunification, i when " please tell me it not what i think it is"
Story 1- I haven’t spoken to my father for 30yrs. I tried when I was younger. He wasn’t interested so, now I’m not and never will be. I’d be pissed if someone tried to push reconciliation. Good riddance!
Yeah take that to your grave
Story 2, when you give someone a ride it's implied that they won't threat you like shit. It's not that difficult to grasp
Right! You don't award disrespect with further favor. She was out of line and changed the conditions of the friendship at the party. She should learn to handle her liquor better.
Alcohol has away to have people speak their truth along with loosening their mouth. I would do the same as OP did, go low contact.
If Sara had been Mom-Knows-Best's patient, calling the abusive dad would have been a license-losing action.
Story one: OP's mother needs to learn that, sometimes, a child-parent reunion can be *detrimental.* I mean, Sara has mentioned *not feeling safe showing up at her own wedding just because she didn't want him knowing about her life.* 😬
Story two: *Oooooooh... That's painful.* They don't even like each other, sure. But what an awful way to put someone down. This makes me think that she had been asked this question too many times, chose to finally blow up in a drunken fit and damage the friendship in the process. The guy having self-esteem and anger issues just makes the whole situation that much more painful to listen to. *What a crapshow.* 😬
Exactly, and as a psychologist, OP’s mom should’ve known better.
@@BersealiaDreamheart Definitely.
Mommy isn't going to learn anything. Because she's faced no real consequences for her awful behaviour. So she cried some crocodile tears and apologized a bunch. So what? Talk is cheap! Let's see her take some action to put her money where her mouth is. I hope OP and Sara are very guarded around her.
@@DrownedInExile According to the update, it's forgiven, *but not forgotten.* Any other attempt at reconciliation between Sara and her estranged father is going to be met with consequences more severe than this one (which, of course, got revoked because the whole family apologized.) And I believe that includes Sara's brother, who *is* in contact with the guy.
"Anger issues" is a cudgel that is used to beat reasonable men with. He didn't hit her for her clear insult. He didn't even blow up at her. He just left a situation where he was being personally attacked. That was a VERY RESTRAINED reaction. People need to understand that they don't get to verbally attack, insult and belittle people, and then act like even the most minor reaction makes them the victim. You aren't the victim. You are the agressor!
Story 2: NTA - Never tolerate disrespect. If she had actually apologized or shown some amount of supplication, like "Oh wow, that came out sounding way worse than I wanted it to," then maybe. Dudes out here getting told they ain't shit every flippin' day. Last thing any guy needs is that kind of energy from someone who's supposed to be their friend.
There's a saying out there about not biting the hand that feeds you. For these circumstances, you don't act like an asshat to your ride. I mean, if you act like a jackass to a bus driver, they'll throw you off the bus.
Well said.
@@Til_I_Collapse Much appreciated.
My friend was SAd by their dad for about a decade. The only way they would ever want their dad at a function was as a target for some very drawn out [Demonetized] revenge.
"Welcome back daddy. I missed you. Fortunately for me, I've been working on my aim. I won't miss you this time!"
I don't think the second OP is the AH at all. If Tina is grown enough to run her mouth and get drunk, she's grown enough to find her own way home. OP is better off without her, although I do support his journey of self-improvement.
Story 2: I can really relate to OP. I had a really good female best friend once, and we were with like 5 of our friends. And one of them mention something about me and her going out. She responding like it was thee worst thing that you could ever say to her. The look of disgust on her face by the very suggestion of us going out and her saying that I would be the last guy she would ever considering going out with, and a few other things she said (none were nice about me) was thee most hurtful thing anyone had ever said/done to me. It made me feel so small and I just wanted to leave and cry. I never thought of her in a romantic way because we want different things out of life. Our friendship was never the same after that day. And we haven't talked in years now
I'm on the other side of that coin, i have a male best friend that i REALLY don't want to sleep with, nevermind date. Now to be clear he is the verry different from OP in that he is verry succesfull with woman. Now i've never made a face and said eww no, but i do feel like that because it feels inturnaly like sleeping with your brother or dad. It's not because i think my friend is superficially unatractive, but because it just feels and sounds so wrong. We would also never work, but i do get why you cut contact with your "friend" doing that sort of thing especially in public is vile. Just saying this because i know that can be a real hit to your self-esteem, but this not about being unactractive it's about her feeling you two just don't match at all so she put you in a NO box in her mind.
I am so sorry for what you went through. I have been through a situation like that, my best friend was a guy and he was gay. When somebody who didn't know that implied that we would be a perfect couple, my "best friend" went on telling everyone how he found the female body disgusting; including female bodily functions and that boobs looked and felt weird and so on. The thing was that I used to bring him with me shopping for clothes etc since he had real good taste. I felt absolutely useless AND worthless, and I dropped him as my friend soon after. We had known each other for 17 years. I'm still upset when I think about what he said, _that Man HATES women on a level I've never seen before ever._
This is why I get concerned when people think therapy will solve everything. A LOT of therapist have their own personal problems and should not be giving other people advice. This one does not listen and is a big boundry stomper because she thinks she is special because she is a "therapist".
My assumption when dealing with ANY mental health professional is that they got into the field to better understand why they themselves are so messed up.
She definitely became a therapist just because “she knows better” and she wanted a legitimate “proof” of it. Like people becoming surgeons to give a go to their god complex.
Yeah finding a non bias therapist is a challenge 😔
I actually just found out there’s a type of narcissist, called an empathetic narcissist.
They get jobs like therapist, psychiatrist, psychologist, etc., to give crap advice to their patients; to feed off of their patient’s misery. 😩
@@CHICK-A-BOOM oh god plz tell me ur joking 😭
Story two: In a world of Uber and having other friends, it doesn't strand someone at a party if you leave. Don't wanna be left? Don't be a butt to your ride. And, funny that she gets mad because of the completely predictable results of her actions. Like, she legitimately expected him to let her treat him like crap and still be her platonic bestie like nothing happened.
I wish OP hadn't apologized to her, he did nothing wrong.
@@DrownedInExile low self esteem
@@DrownedInExile Exactly! I feel like he probably got drowned in YTA in his post and took it to heart. It’s really unfortunate.
@@j_g9109 and i guarantee the vast majority of the YTA came from women, that would praise a had genders been reversed.
I dont think op did anything wrong by leaving her or not finding a ride for her, but he should have told her he was leaving. I doubt it was just their close friends at the party and most sa happens with people you are acquainted with. If she made choices at a party assuming she had a ride, it could have gotten bad. Op seems like a decent guy, if something had happened he probably would have felt guilty.
Ubers aren't always available everywhere. She may not have money on her. It's also possible that all their close friends could have left before she realized he had. He could have just said find your own way back or something. He wouldn't even have to be nice about it. For his own peace of mind, if nothing else.
If you make plans with someone, then the least you should do is give them a heads up if things change so they can plan an alternate course of action.
When I was in jr high, there was a popular mean game, where person A would ask person B (in front of person C) “B, what would you think if C liked you?” B would then react with revulsion, and the bystanders would laugh. I thought it was juvenile, even for 6th grade. One day B was one of my good friends, and I was C. I was so disappointed in him, that he would not only participate, but accept me as the butt of bullying. I wasn’t mad, I just never spoke to him again, nor within a year all 18 of the other students in my grade (very small school.)
In the post, it wasn’t just about the friend’s cruel rejection, it was about her assumption that everyone would accept OP as the correct object for bullying. As adults. I don’t see repairing that.
S2: her safety is her own problem when she insults the driver. Nta OP i would've even followed up with "i wouldn't sleep with her even if we were the last 2 people alive"
Exactly. I don't care if she was left in the darkest seediest meanest dive-bar in town. OP isn't her daddy, not responsible for her safety.
She may have been joking, we don’t know what tone she used.
@@cloverite We actually do, it's in the story.
I think it's an unspoken rule that, if you invite an unwanted guest to a wedding, you'll get kicked out. As in, a literal kick.
S1 mother is a "bubble person" they live in a bubble world of rainbows and prancing unicorns and refuse to see complicated or painful relationships
So like Pyro-vision from "Meet the Pyro"?
@@ajzephyros7454 had to google. Yes, good analogy. I know someone who will come close to physical violence if you try to correct their "reality"
I'm guessing mother's experience with reconciliation is where the person she was seeing wanted to reconcile, and got the idea that everyone really wants to reconcile even if they don't admit it.
@@rogerrabbit80 my thoughts as well. Mom's experiences are only with those seeking reunification. She is still a massive idiot, to the point where as someone else here mentioned; I feel sorry for those that she has harmed in her professional career.
@@groofromtheup5719 One would think a psycologist would know the difference
S2, if you are dependant on someone for ANYTHING, you don't insult them.
Story Two: Drunk words are sober thoughts. I've had a close male friend since my freshman year too and if I said that sort of thing in front of him, even while drunk, you'd better believe that I'd my walking my own ass home.
Story 2: it’s not his job to babysit her because she’s drunk. Oh well. Be an adult and get an Uber. If someone insulted me like that, I’d drop them.
I literally went nocontact with my elderly grandmother for forcing me into engagement with my rapist father via speaker phone after I'd repeatedly warned her about that sort of thing in the past. She died never having gotten to speak to me again & I do not regret that. Forcing engagement with an abuser is horrendous, & the mom in that has no business in the mental healthcare field with that sort of blatant disregard for boundaries.
They think uninviting Mom was too drastic?! That was the nicest response in my opinion. I would have told her that if either she or FIL showed up, she would be banned from their and any future children's lives forever. Let her clean up her own mess.
Last story: I don't understand the "you're my friend so I don't find you attractive" line. I have male and female friends, I'm straight but that doesn't stop me from noticing that many of them are quite attractive. It doesn't mean I have feelings for them but pretending someone isn't attractive because they're a friend is weird.
In my country we also have a saying: don’t bite the hand that feeds you. If you are reliant on someone doing you a favor, then don’t insult them. Glad they talked it out, though.
Op has already proved to be a good partner with his swift decisive action after his mother overstepped a very clear and obvious boundary that they told her (multiple times at) not to cross
And anyone who disagrees with it... well too bad you can't come either
It’s always aggravating when people decide to force a reconciliation between estranged parties. Rarely is it based completely on genuine concern for the well-being of those involved. The majority of the time it's because the forcer wants to be the hero of someone else’s story, the catalyst that fixed something they think should no longer be broken.
Real kindness is knowing that not every bridge needs to be rebuilt, and it is not up to them to decide if/when it should be.
S1 Hot take: Huge NTA. Mom was WAY out of line, there has to be consequences. If OP can't set and enforce hard boundaries against toxic behaviour, on one of the most important days of his life, it will forever cast a shadow over his marriage. But if he shows his shiny spine, his wife-to-be will always remember that.
The update: Sara is wrong. OP's mom is the one tearing the family apart, not her father. Mom can apologize till the cows come home, but talk is cheap. I'm not convinced she's faced enough consequences that she won't pull this crap again. OP and Sara need to be very guarded around her.
That's not a goddamn hot take. It's literally just echo chambering what everyone in the comments said.
Cold ahh take
@@lucaswinsor4469 I call it a hot take, because I hadn't watched the whole vid yet when I commented.
Glad for Story 1 positive update! Story 2, I would have told Tina I was leaving to give her the option of finding another ride or leaving with OP. Drunk people often lose all filters.
If mom is a licensed psychologist then she absolutely, 100% should have known better. More than anybody else on this planet she should have KNOWN not to do this. She has absolutely no excuse.
I wonder if she is retired or was fired
Story 2: drunk doesn't change you it just makes you more honest nta
The worst way to turn off that filter. :/
Drunk words are sober thoughts
I'm really annoyed that OP apologized to her. He did nothing wrong.
No matter what you decide about Mom's betrayal, uninvite Sara's father and just get security at the wedding to keep your wife's father out. Enjoy your wedding.
Unfortunately, some people simply don't take you seriously when you explicitly tell them not to do XYZ. And it's only after they get hit with consequences that they realize that you were serious.
It's because they think you're joking. People are kinda dense that unless you make it abundantly clear, and threatening in a sort of way. It will fly over their heads, and believe themselves to know better than you.
As a psychologist the mom should have known better than to force a meeting like this. She must really be bad at her job
I know its not a popular opinion but op is the ah in story 2. Not for leaving her. Not even for not finding her another ride, but for not telling her.
Uber may not have been available, or she may not have had money. Her friends could have left before she realized she needed a ride. Op didnt have to be nice about it, but letting her know to find her own ride before she got too drunk to make those decisions is the responsible thing to do. Op isnt responsible for her happiness or safety, but he should have told her when he decided not to give her a ride
I think uninviting the mom is equal payment for her dropping a surprise invite of someone she'd been explicitly told not to. God, the fact that she's got psych credentials with reunification experience makes all this hit so much more messed up
#1 - Mom’s got a god complex and thinks she’s a hero for swooping in and “fixing” things. I’m sure everyone telling you it’s too far think she had good intentions. They’re wrong. Her intentions were to fix it and be praised. I bet she was glowing snuggly when she announced it. This was a massive overstep, was none of her business, and she thinks she’s a victim here and is rallying flying monkeys to defend her when it’s none of their business either. NTA and I hope you two can have a wonderful time without them.
All right I just want to say this as my judgment before the update to the first story the thing I find so shocking about the Mother-in-law in this situation being Op's mother is the fact that she's a licensed psychologist that has had years in the field knowing that you can't just make a parent and a child settle their differences and just make it a water over the bridge situation overnight it takes a lot of hard work and she knows that so the thing is why would she break those boundaries knowing that in her amounts of experience in that field knowing that it's not that easy cuz the thing that I find scary is very unprofessional that was and how much trouble that could get her in if she just openly does this with all her patience without their consent because anybody knows if you were to do that against the patients own set of boundaries that they set up between you and them professionally and if you were to do something kind of like what the mother did yeah the way I see it you would be in a lot of hot water for it maybe that's just me sorry my sentence sounds like it's a little bit all over the place I'm a little tired and it's been a long morning for me
I'm just heartbroken for all the poor people whose life was ruined because they had OP's mom as a psychiatrist
Dude I know right like I agree with you like it makes me wonder that she breaks boundaries like this before because I know some psychologists are famously known for sometimes I guess getting through people very quickly and thinking that they can fix things overnight just like that to make their jobs less overwhelming but you know we don't really know the mom too well but even then I wouldn't trust her to be my psychologist or therapist
@@randomusername3873 Psychologist, not psychiatrist.
A psychiatrist is a medical doctor and can prescribe medication. A psychologist, while they may have a doctorate, is not a medical doctor.
She can't have been a very good psychologist. Like any industry, there are good ones and bad ones, and if she so confidently cross this boundary, what will she do when there are grandchildren in the mix? I would never trust a person who did what she did.
@@rogerrabbit80 ups he mixed up the two😂
Story 1: I'm glad they were able to change the date and have their wedding unencumbered by the estranged father. My spidey senses are telling me that there's more to the estrangement than we've been told, but it doesn't matter. She set a firm boundary and MIL totally violated it. If I were in her position, hell would freeze over before I'd be able to trust her again.
Story 2: I didn't see a mention of it, but I can tell you as one from a family of alcoholics, that truth comes out when someone is drunk and inhibitions are down.
Second story: OP didn't owe his "friend" a ride home. Especially after the way she acted. What's with all y'all people having this notion you can't just leave people who act a fool. I'd have left her weather she had a friend or not. You don't bite the hand that feeds you, or in this case gives you a ride.
And being drunk isn't an excuse.
Its because she has the "woman" card. Of course they wouldnt say the same, if she would have been a he.
Technically, OP was just acting out of his own self interests. However, most adults aim to behave in a respectful and caring manner to the people they consider friends.
Treating a friendship (with a woman or man) as a battle ground where one person is "correct" and too bad for the other person, is not illegal. No one owes anyone...blah...blah.
OP is, 100%, a garbage friend. No denying that. What other petty slights might cause him to abandon a friend? What about a male friend who is successful with a female OP has his eyes on. Leave him because the woman is nit interested in OP and that hurts his feelings?Throwing tantrums and acting out of emotional pain is toxic brhavior. OP's bx may seem fair if OP does not care about being a mature man of quality character. OP can hang out with "friends" as immature as he is and wind up getting left at a club and robbed.
How OP treats others should depend upon the quality of life one is interested in having, not on where his emotions blow him.
@@One.DeSanctis. Curious why you're so concerned with how OP treated his friend while barely mentioning how he was treated. His friend was in no danger; other friends were there. She was just inconvenienced and embarrassed.
And, seriously. Stop with the whole making up a new scenario and judging OP based on the scenario you made up.
And, you should treat others based on how they treat you. If they treat you badly, ditch them.
@@One.DeSanctis. Just say you want Op to be a doormat😂
Yeah when to come to family estrangement either you get it or you don't. Even if OP's mother intention is good she really shouldn't forced OP's wife to do that.
I broke all contact with my dad side cus everyone was always trying to reunite us.
I haven't seen him in 15 years and I do not want to change that
The party story
To those redditors who inevitably called OP ta and think that drunk women should be absolved of all responsibility if it was a bloke drunk that said something similar about a women you lot would be rinsing him, being drunk is no excuse.
What, she's the asshole for acting grossed out at the idea of dating her friend? Flip the genders and I *still* think OP overreacted.
Nobody is absolving her of responsibility, just pointing out that leaving a woman at a party -- whether you know the people there or not -- is putting her in danger, and that's not okay.
_Psychologists aren't always right. And it is extremely inappropriate & unprofessional to "analyze" friends and family since pre existing biases always exists._
The mom crossed a lot of boundaries.
Hey, Lost Genre! Another good one! I actually prefer listening to your stories over reading them on Reddit, because you cut through all the crap and repetition. And you don’t leave any cliffhangers! Please keep up the good work.
My pleasure :)
Story 1: I am currently LC with my dad and plan to go NC with him after I graduate and if my MIL did this to me I would have never spoken to her again u never know why a person goes NC for me it’s because my dad is abusive and it is detrimental to my mental and physical health to be around him and even though he was only mentally abusive he has abused his step children physically in the past so why on earth would I want a man like him in my life let alone at my wedding? I honestly wonder how good the MIL is at her job she must damage so many of her patients psyche
Not the a****** having these boundaries in place for a reason this person was excluded from your wife's life because they caused her endless amounts of trauma and heartache now if your mother being a psychologist can't wrap her brain around the need for boundaries she obviously is not very good at her job
ok, so i story one..the guy has known his fiancé for sooooo many years late teens or something so his mom should have known what the girls dad put her through and as a psychologist knew how this would affect her long term, BUT still though she knew best and invited her abuser to their wedding...mom must have been a shitty psychologist. just saying maybe she was a cps worker which would explain her stupidity about the situation
I'm estranged from my family for several years now, and would be so hurt if someone tried to force me to reconcile with them.
Good morning LG. Mom should have minded her own business. She had no right. I'm glad everything worked out for them. Have a good day
First Story: A family was torn apart by a father not being there in his daughter's life to raise her? I'm thinking there's something worse than that involved that OP's mother and others don't know about.
It's bad enough when someone uses their +1 to invite an unwanted guest, but since Mom and Dad are both coming she was adding an extra guest to someone else's wedding.
Story 2, rage gains are still gains, push out the fears
Story 1 NTA: as someone who is estranged from my narcissistic parents, if my future in-laws pulled this stunt they would be NC as well.
Thank God my in-laws are wonderful people
Forensic Psychology and Applied Behavior here.. Mom is off her rocker!! I don't care WHAT degree she has and what her area of expertise is, SHE KNEW BETTER!!! It's too drastic because THEY weren't the ones hurt by their father!! I could not look at that woman for a very long time... She KNEW but did not care and that's selfish!! Why the hell would she want to unfy at her damn wedding?! Happiest day of her life and the mom thinks that's when she should cry and be depressed!
First Story: Mil/Mom is a REALLY BIG AH for what she did. This is a Good example of I only had good intentions, The road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions. The worst part about Betrayal is that it ALWAYS comes from friends or family with good intentions from there point of view and get sad and angry that what they did backfired. Fiance brother is also a REALLY BIG AH he is going to get it Bad when his time comes. I feel sorry for Fiance & OP
The mom pretty much put her daughter-in-law's life at risk and expected to get a pat on the back for it.
She's a psychologist. Doesn't she know the term "retraumatization"?
Story 2: NTA, really speaks of op's friend's (hopefully ex now)character even after sobering up they didn't even realize how their gesture come across and how their comment made op feel. Also, there is a saying "kid and drunk people always say the truth" (Los borrachos y los niños siempre dicen la verdad) so they invertible told op how they really feel about them. 15:00 Lo cortez no le quita lo valiente, my family usually uses this saying as a way to say “you did your best, even though you messed up” , kinda neat to hear it on a different context.
someone else pointed out that maybe she's been asked this question too many times so she snapped in a bad way especially with being drunk too. i've had male friends who we've both responded the exact same way sober.
@@savanna8103 I get that there is that social stigma in which both a man and a woman can be friends, and there must be some sort of romantic intention between them. And, also, I'm aware of the frustration that op's friend must feel when everybody tells them that they must be in a relationship to be fulfilled, but why attack op? Furthermore, the way she did a double-take after saying that, it came across that she was aware of how they came. So the fact that she didn't apologize to Op right away or during the phone call, instead trying to put the blame on op, kinda makes her the AH. In addition, I'm in the mindset of not staying where you are not welcome.
I disagree with the 2nd story. I’m leaning to EAA. Sure, it came out as if she was being rude and maybe it was just that. Leaving someone drunk and stranded is a big deal though. It can really leave a person vulnerable to all sorts of bad situations. By all means dump them as a friend, ask for an apology, tell them you want them to make it up to you ... whatever. But we don’t know if the friend was being dramatic because she was drunk and sees her friend like family etc. It’s very open to interpretation. We do know that going back on your word isn’t what a friend does, even when upset.
Story 1: Mom was an asshole and probably wanted to be the hero of the family and brought back old, painful stings Sarah shouldn’t have needed. I understand big time of what she was dealing with and it would hurt me deeply if my in laws did the same thing.
Story 2: Honestly, for her to say that and act like she was “joking” was pretty cruel and I think leaving her was justified. Granted if OP left her on the side of a road in the middle of the night, it would be a dick move. But I would’ve done the same thing if my sister/friend said that in a harsh way. NTA
Story 2: Disagree, mainly because *I'd* probably react with disgust to such a question, too. Not everyone's straight. She backpedaled awkwardly when she realized his feelings were hurt, but she was also *drunk.* And, seriously, he's no attracted to her, why was he so offended? OP needs to chill.
@@brigidtheirish because his friend basically called him disgusting? Of course he is going to be offended
@@randomusername3873 But she didn't *actually.* She said eww, no, and swore. She didn't say anything about his appearance, personality, or habits. His problem was entirely with her *tone,* which can be hard to manage *when drunk.*
@@brigidtheirish All being drunk does is remove one's filter. These are her actual, unfiltered thoughts about OP in regards to such a question. She made the conscious choice to drink to the extent that her filter was essentially removed and then answered in a way that signified that she was actually revolted by OP.
No one anywhere wants to have someone say "Ugh ew! Fucking no!" as a response to them. It's a confidence killer. Also, look at her response to OP having a reasonable reaction to her words. OP did not want to be near her and left the party. Tina's response to this?
1. Called OP an asshole. 2. Told OP to get over himself and that she was just kidding. 3. Ignoring OP until OP was the one to reach out and apologize first. She's the offending party SHE should be the one to reach out and apologize.
@@thefriendlyfool 1. Called him an asshole for dipping out on her *without a word of warning* when he was her *ride.* 2. I already said she back-pedaled awkwardly. 3. Because he acted like a dick.
S2. I don't want to call op an a-hole, but it's pretty clear he got but hurt oclvwr being rejected by a woman he claims he doesn't like. It really shouldn't of bother him that much considering they have a mutual feeling about not being attractive to each other.
I firmly believe that what people say and do when drunk is reflective of what they think when sober.
Gosh I am glad Sara has someone like OP. She has no one else in the world but she has a wonderful man who's proven he will endlessly fight for her, and thank goodness for that.
Glad OP has his SO's back. NTA
If a partner is estranged from family, there's a reason. Don't interfere
If I'm sarah, I have all kinds of questions about how much to include OP's mom in her life.
What can you tell her?
How much can you trust her not to go behind your back again?
How much you want her involved with your future children?
Mom the psychologist opened about five psychological cans of worms here
Brilliant video LG!
Like I feel bad for OP in story 2. But at the same time as person who was CONSTANTLY asked over and over again for months if I like one of my ex friends until I straight up left the friends altogether... I kinda get where the girl is coming from. Sometimes you gotta be dramatic to get your point across. It honestly sounds like she was at her limit.
The Tina story
To those saying "she didn't mean it she was drunk" the ancient Romans have a reply:
"In vino veritas"
It's because she's drunk that it's pretty obvious she did mean it
OP, this should be a slap in the face and a wake-up call. Your "friend" gave you the gift of finally being straight about something.
If you need to get into better physical shape, this is a push to do that. You need to work on your life, get busy working on your life. If you have the kind of friends one collects when one has low self-esteem, (Tina) this is a call to drop them
Yeah, they don't call alcohol 'liquid courage' for nothing.
Yes, I agree with the other thing you said, too. Sometimes a comment from an insensitive AH can be a blessing in disguise; as much as an insult can hurt, it can sometimes give you a push to somehow want to better yourself in a certain area in your life (not that every time someone insults you it means there's actually something wrong with you or there's something you need to fix).
@@whitneybennett4857 it seems like women love to use the "oh, she was drunk, she didn't mean it" excuse, to avoid taking accountability of their actions.....
@@maishal7034 Exactly. Not to mention, "I was drunk" is a favorite among cheaters.
You mean a female psychologist was unprofessional and incompetent? But arrogant enough to decide she knew better? How unsurprising hahaha. Who could’ve seen this coming except for every man alive?
My father was physically abusive and my mom and step dad were emotionally and mentally. I’ve very open and unashamed about all of it. It’s just something I survived.
Some people aren’t.
My siblings aren’t.
That’s okay. They don’t have to explain their trauma. And in my experience therapists like hers are the worst. They NEVER care about the children, just an idea in their heads.
"talk to you mom and hear her out"
OP told mom what SHE needed to hear. Mom is an arrogant busybody and needs to learn a lesson about smstating in her place.
Hire security to keep mom and FIL out
I know it’s a cliché to pull the “if the genders were reversed” argument but the comments on the second post would be noticeably different if it was OP that reacted the way Tina did, especially the comments saying that he should’ve still given her a ride.
Absolutely, all the White Knights came out on this one. I'm quite annoyed that OP apologized to Tina. He did absolutely nothing wrong. All he's done is shown himself to be weak.
Fair enough. However, the comments should have advised OP to get therapy to learn how to regulate his emotions over his low self-esteem. Regardless of the gender, ages and the blood-alcohol level or the individuals involved, it is important to honor commitments to others where their safety is at risk. OP would be the AH if the "friend" got rolled and dumped in a ditch after trying to stumble home drunk. It is a petty move to punish someone you consider a "friend" because they are not interested in dating you. What if OP's friend was a man who was attracted to him? Would OP's gay panic be enough to abandon a drunk friend at a party? OP should learn to make choices guided by logical decisions. People cannot force/feign an attraction to someone and should not be required to tap dance around eggshells to protect the ego of someone else. Men should not be expected to pander to a female platonic friend.
ETA: I agree with you, mostly. Accept, I believe acting petty does not excuse dumping a drunk friend in a dangerous locale. OP sounds super sensitive. Why get angry if OP does not want to bone?
@@DrownedInExile nothing weak about refusing to be insulted. What's the advice we're given as children? Walk away. In this case, he drove away. The girl had ways of getting home. You can blame the booze, the atmosphere, or the conversation, but she didn't think twice about her response. That is telling of any friendship.
@One DeSanctis was she actually in a dangerous locale? Or surrounded by mutual friends. If the onus on OP was to babysit his drunk friend, could thar onus be on every male and female friend that was there as well? How do single adult women who go out get around? I believe there's ubers,lyfts, and taxis for that. I was always told, "Do not bite the hand that feeds." she was disrespectful to the person she "depended" on to get home. Maybe she should have thought about that before acting the way she did. If using alcohol as an excuse for her behavior, what other behaviors are we willing to excuse due to alcohol. If she acts this way because of "alcohol," then maybe she should lay off the booze. All I see in this post in an adult female who isn't being held accountable, and a man who was told by reddit to be a doormat, when he actually has a spine. However I do believe therapy would help both parties here, for the guy, especially so he will realize he was actually in the right. This is coming from a former doormat in which therapy helped me greatly.
@@TheScarletLadle You misunderstand. I applaud OP for walking away. But apologizing when he did nothing wrong, is what I have a problem with.
Story 1. That was very nice to allow the mother to come to the wedding,after pulling that one, she should have known better, even to know a wedding is not the place. I would have re- invited her the day of the wedding,so she could experience stress as well. Story 2 Is she really a friend,or just wants a ride every time,they have the same friend group. That was totally despicable,he must have felt humiliated,aghast,insulted. It was only natural to get away,why should he care about her,she clearly showed she did not care about him. Another friend /family/ taxi/ uber,would have got her home.What she said would be enough to end the friendship,as friends do not behave in that fashion.
Story 1: OP tried to talk to his mother and she refused to listen. I would not only not invite her to the wedding, I would go NC. And have some hefty friends on hand to keep FIL away.
Mom - shattering that stereotype about psychiatric professionals being some of the most screwy people out there
Let's ignore the fact mom invited an unwelcomed guest, an important life event is NOT the time to heal relationships. Maybe had she organised a coffee date to see one another and mend things it could've be forgivable, giving him info he is not welcomed to know is a no granny rights for me...
MIL needs to but out! She thinks she knows best and is willing to upset Sara , why? To prove a point. That she’s right. Hard to believe she was a good therapist.
Story 2 Op is the AH he agreed to be their DD, you don't back out in the middle of the party (just because you felt rejection from someone you had eyes for) and not tell the person your driving home, that you left.
Story 1: OP actually DID have the right to unilaterally uninvite HIS mother who BETRAYED AND ABUSED HIM as well as his fiance.
NTA for leaving her at the party. She a big girl and can get her own way home after insulting and disrespecting you. She wasn’t joking because it’s not a joke if no one laughs, then it’s just mean and bullying. But honestly, if anyone thought so little of me to say stuff like that in front of friends, I’d find someone else to be a friend because they certainly aren’t. So as a follow up, one of her friends told her she sort of went overboard with it which mean she was soft peddling her which means you read her exactly right. No one says stuff that harshly to someone’s face in front of mutual friends that has any respect for you. The fact she BS about her safety when you were with mutual friends further shows her trying to cover for herself.
OP2 is hard NTA. Never insult your ride.
Not the A hole he dosnt get to opt out of being a dad and then get to come to his daughters wedding and I'm assuming want to take the glory of walking her down the Isle your mum was our of line to brake your one boundary as it generally takes a lot for a child to cut ties with a parent even bad/abusive ones.
Story 2: OP is SO not the AH. That friend has some nerve to tell him that 'she's still mad at him'. She's not the victim! If anyone has the right to feel upset and mad, it's OP, not her. She insulted him and hurt his feelings and then expected to get away with it with a 'Oops my bad that came out wrong'. Then when confronted with the consequences of her actions, instead of acting like an adult and getting her own ride home (order an uber, a taxi, ask another friend for a ride ect.. c'mon girl it's the 21st century!) she made the choice to be the helpless victim. The fact that OP has anger and self esteem issues only makes it worse.
OP's MIL is a retired psychologist? I'm not buying it unless was forced into retirement because she's so awful at it. Or maybe she worked as part of the office staff at a mental health clinic and just told people outside of work that she was a psychologist. Her ideas about grief and depression are so off the mark that it's unreal.
Sounds like OP mom found out the meaning of: "Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes." And honestly, not only would mommy be banned from the wedding, I would not even let her see any grand kids if I was OP. She would probably try to introduce them the the Estranged FiL behind their back. Then spew sim BS about them needed a relationship with their grand father.
At least mom had the decency to apologize.
Story 1 - I wouldn't assume that everyone that's a trained psychologist is actually healthy themselves. I knew too many screwed up people that majored in that in college to automatically trust. MIL was out of line, and it's great that OP 100% had his wife's back.
Story 2 - For a lot of people, alcohol is like a truth serum, and it seems like it is for Tina. OP saw what she really thinks of him. I think it's time he finds a true friend as his bestie. Tina learned not to expect your ride to stick around after you insult them. While it would have been polite to let her know he was leaving, she was around other friends, so NTA.
Uninviting 'Mom' was NOT an overreactoion OP has given his Mom clear, firm boundaries and Mom smashed them because SHE wanted to. She put her wants over her STBDiL's profound needs and preferences. NTA. Hope stays firm with his mom. Kudos on him for protecting Sarah!
1, Don't cancel wedding.
2. DO hire security.
3. Formally serve Dad with notice he's not invited and WILL be changed with trespassing
Story 2
Everyone always wants to say being Drunk is a excuse... People when you're drunk it's one of the few times that you are usually Honest 😒...
Second story not the a-hole. It's not like he abandoned her at a party where she was the only person there that he knew and she knew him. They had plenty of friends there as well.
If you ask me being drunk means people should take double responsibility because its the real voice speaking.
Tyvm LG stay safe please, Peace.
It sounds like the father was some degree of abusive. That a psychologist would try to “reunite” a person with somebody who abused them as a vulnerable child is disgusting.
*reads title* time for a bomb 💣 to be returned to sender my derp
I think Op's mother's "retirement" was involuntary. I don't think a person with this mindset would have a successful psychology practice and might have had to settle one too many lawsuits to keep her license.
"Lo cortés no quita lo valiente" My Colombian Mother has said this to me my whole life, lol.
Fiance is not OP's moms patient. Did she even know the reason why the NC?
There is a reason why drs are not supposed to be treating relatives.